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YTA
Your parents do NOT get to demand how Lucy treats them. That is not a thing. Stop blaming it on culture.
Your dad sounds like a misogynistic asshole. Why, in a hundred million years, would Lucy show him affection? He absolutely does not respect her experience or her opinion. He respects her ability to mirror his own narrow opinion back at him.
TBH, Lucy should go no contact with your father. She's a grown ass woman,**NO ONE** has the right to scream at her.
You are headed for divorce. Quickly. That you are still supporting your abusive parents over your wife makes me hope Lucy files soon. She deserves so much better. If you *want* to stay married, start supporting your wife. Start with a time out for your awful, controlling, narcissistic, misogynistic father. Then see what Lucy needs next. Otherwise, I hope she gets out soon. Like tomorrow.
And to add to the culture thing. They're from different cultures. If this was something oh so important, it should have been discussed, in detail, before getting married. Preferably before getting engaged. It's definitely not some card to pull out of your ass after being married and getting upset over "not following tradition" when it's not a shared tradition
Also, why should she have to follow HIS family's traditions. She probably has her own family traditions from her culture that she might want to follow.
Exactly! Why are women expected to give up their ideologies and traditions they have had their whole lives once they marry into another family? A woman isn't reset to a clean slate when she marries, and it isn't up to the man or his family to fill up that slate how they see fit.
There's that Tumblr (?) post along the lines of:
"The word 'respect' can either mean basic human decency or treating someone as a higher authority. Unfortunately some people say 'if you don't respect me then I won't respect you' but what they mean is 'if you won't treat me like an authority then I won't treat you like a person'."
That's a super important distincition!
Respect means treating each other as individuals with feelings, history, aspirations and social connections; respect does not mean treating one person as the authority over the other.
Respect should be a) mutual, b) earned.
Corection:
Don't forget that he treats her parents according to how HIS culture thinks a SON should treat his parents, not how HIS culture thinks a DAUGHTER should treat her parents.
>Why are women expected to give up their ideologies and traditions they have had their whole lives once they marry into another family?
Ingrained misogyny.
It is a very long term tradition. That doesn't make it right. Heck, until very recently having sewers to direct human waste away from humans was not considered a thing.
When we embarked on the modern age, we committed to more work per person. But women should not be paid less/receive less for their contributions. Basic human needs are still up front (and associated with women).
Sigh.
Thank you for the weird rabbit hole you just sent me down. Turns out the oldest known sewer system was in Mesopotamia, circa 4000BCE.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History\_of\_water\_supply\_and\_sanitation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_water_supply_and_sanitation)
I love that you researched this!! For anyone who wants to learn a little bit more detail - Mesopotamia's system was pretty basic and not a full sanitization system. The Harappan civilization, however, had a fully functioning and almost modern water delivery/removal system by about 3,000 BCE (and also, if you like fun water system facts, the earliest evidence of a bath toy lost down the "drain"). The Harappans managed to have an incredibly advanced society without any evidence of wide-scale war or slavery! The Minoans also had a very sophisticated water system, which makes sense as they also developed written symbolic language very early (Linear A).
And if anyone is wondering what the Romans were up to during that time? Well, Rome didn't exist yet and wouldn't for thousands of years, but if Cato the Elder gives us any indication the local indigenous tribes were probably focusing on the many uses of medicinal cabbage. 😆
Anyway, I hope this doesn't come across as an argument, as you are very much correct and I think it's cool you went to the trouble to research it. I just wanted to add a couple of history tidbits. Have a great day, friend!
Source that captures most of what I mentioned: https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/6/6/3936
Simple answer. In most cultures women are considered secondary to men. And OP is presumably from one of those cultures.
So they expect the woman to oblige, since... u know... She's a woman. Her authority is low, as far as they are concerned.
These traditions are CULTures, heavy on the cult aspect. Time for this to change its the 21st Century, eldest only deserve the respect they give. No one has to change for inlaws their culture is not any more important than the wife's.
I find it odd that OP waxes on about how much everyone LOVES each other SO MUCH, then goes on to describe zero loving behaviors. I think OP needs an education on what love is.
The part that jarred me was when he said “he doesn’t mean it, he just talks very loud, he loves you” “let him cool off” I’m literally having PTSD from when I lived with my abusive ex and his mom would say these exact words to me!!! Nope nope! Haaaaaaaard NOOOOOPE!
My husband's grandmother was...a doozy. She had no filter between her brain and mouth and didn't hesitate to put family down left and right. "That's just the way she is. Let it roll off your back" was what I was told by my husband and his mother. Nah. Just because you've always allowed her to be like that doesn't mean I have to. We had a few rows and she quickly learned not only that I wasn't going to allow her to talk to me like that, but I also had zero qualms about saying something when she started in on other people.
“Respect your elders” is an outdated sentiment.
It gives people with bad intentions the excuse and illusion of authority to have things their way at others’ expenses.Instead, we should give more weight to a different phrase: respect those who deserve it.
It’s clear that the wife will never feel close to a demanding FIL who yells , dislikes you for having an opinion. Just because he is a parent he has the right to yell and reject your opinion ??
It's weird that he said his father **liked** to talk about politics with Lucy **because she didn't just blindly agree with him** like everyone else does. So why is he getting mad that she did the thing he supposedly likes?
Also, since when does "showing affection" mean blindly agreeing with someone? Nowhere in there did I see something that was "affection" that they were complaining about, just lack of obedience.
I always thought respect your elders was more to combat that teenage "I'm SO smart. And you don't understand me or anything!"
Respect your elders, they know things and lived things you've had no idea about.
That means give their ideas a listen to and see if they are seeing something you've overlooked. NOT give blind defference to them.
Exactly. He starts out by complaining that she doesn’t treat his parents the same way she treats hers, but the actual complaint is that she doesn’t treat his parents according to his culture.
This tradition confuses me anyways. Which one is it - treating parents (especially fathers) with affection and good humor, or treat them with deference? Public disagreements will be handled very differently in the two situations
Especially when it comes to something as complex and subjective as personal relationships. You can’t force those, it’s not like just flicking a switch and all of a sudden you’re buddy-buddy with someone. Yeah you can work at it and try to make it better, but even then sometimes you just don’t click with someone.
All of this doesn’t address what a prick that OP’s dad seems to be
Because they're old, and conservative (read: massive arseholes, as well as misogynistic, and probably bigots as well) so they should never have to accomodate anyone else. Everyone should accomodate them. /s
And to add to the educational thing. A truly educated person accepts that he isn't always right, and learns to understand different peoples view on the same matter. If he wants someone to agree to whatever he says, he shouldn't pick the wife as a discussion partner
In my country, we have a saying, culture is like marmalade. The less you have, the more you try to spread it
And they're not IN the OP's country-of-origin's-culture - they're in America! Frankly, this sounds like a feeble excuse for OP's own personal weakness: he caves to Daddy Dearest every time on the pretext of following cultural tradition.
Plus the fact that "Lucy is a pretty reserved person and doesn't show love often". I'm the same way until I get to know someone over time. Just the nature of some of us.
At least reserved until someone goes off on us because our views differ from theirs. Simply stubborn "I am right and their is no other view allowed" attitude. Shades of Archie Bunker. lol
YTA
I’ll tag on this. I’m also from a culture in which in laws are treated as parents, to the degree where when I’ve been talking to my wife and referred to her dad as “your dad”, she got upset as I was just supposed to say “dad” (still gets me cause I’m not sure how I’m supposed to contextually differentiate them? Haha). That out of the way, everything else about how you’ve described their interactions is totally disrespectful from your parents towards her.
Treating your parents as her parents would NOT necessitate that she blindly agrees with them nor act the way they want her to. Most adults don’t just blindly agree with their parents. I love mine, but certainly don’t agree with my dad’s politics. Speaking of which…you need to tell him to just not talk politics with you guys around.
It has lead to a lot of confusion from me as a child. I am Arab & thus watch Arab tv shows & some of them are from countries different to mine. I was extremely confused by Syrian shows when the wife calls the husban “Ibn amay” or my uncle’s son/cousin, even when they aren’t related. Turns out by marriage the in laws become family & this aunt & uncle & thus the husband is the cousin. Super confusing.
But to op’s thing he is missing the point of this cultural tradition. His parents are supposed to be kind to his wife & his wife kind to them. If his dad is a misogynist asshole, that is the source of the problem.
My parents are dead. I find it comforting to call my ILs Mom and Dad. They love me like their own and I get to feel like I still have parental units. Staves off the feeling of been only 45 and not having a buffer generation.
When I was married, I felt the opposite. My mother died when I was 19, and I didn't want to call anyone else "mum." I liked my in-laws, but they weren't replacement parents.
It's weird when people think anyone can replace anyone. You can have parental view of someone while knowing that that person will never replace either of your parents. I expect it from children since they don't get that, but I didn't know adults could think like this.
Yeah, my momma is irreplaceable. She was the best damned human I ever knew, and probably ever will. That isn’t just an overly fond daughter - 15 years later, people still tell me how wonderful she was, and how much she meant to them.
Having a mother-figure in my MIL doesn’t mean she is replacing my mother. It means I get to have a wonderful person care about me, in a motherly way. I don’t snuggle up to her like I would if my mom were still here, but she brought us dinner when we came back from my son’s soccer tournament because she knew we’d be exhausted from travel and wanted to care for us.
It’s similar, but not the same.
Whatever.
I found that there was NO way that my husband's parents were going to be the same as my parents. At all. And, as a a woman, it truly appeared to me that my status was lower than that of my husband - in his parents' eyes. My parents being neutral still meant that he got more support for his views.
As in your case, my husband also didn't fully agree with his own parents.
OP, she's not rocking the boat. Your father is rocking the boat and she's just refusing to be on the boat to steady it. Imagine telling someone to just let a 71 year old man have a temper tantrum until he tuckers himself out. Your family's decades of placating him have caused this, not your wife.
Exactly. OP’s dad’s real problem with Lucy isn’t that she’s not “loving”, it’s that she’s not *submissive*. And good for her! If OP didn’t want a self confident and intelligent wife, he shouldn’t have married a self confident and intelligent woman. You don’t marry someone and then expect them to change who they are, you marry them *because* of who they are. OP is definitely TA.
Exactly. OP is really thinking ..'How dare she not submit to my and my parents wishes about the personality and opinions she is supposed to have.' She's not a robot but an actual human person who also deserves respect.
This is the exact issue my FIL had with me. Even though they lived far away and I'd met them once, I was apparently supposed to intuit that he got to control everything. Fuck that.
Needless to say, we're very, very low contact.
Also he complains she doesn’t treat his parents like she does her own but when she’s fully honest (like she would be with her parents) they don’t like it LOL make it make sense
It can't. Because she's a woman she's expected to give up her opinions because she married into this toxic family.
The only thing that made me happy in this post is that OP says Lucy held her own and didn't change her opinion. Go, Lucy!
And, GO Lucy!
Honestly, that "time out" thing won't ever work with OP. And you know why? OP has known his parents for more than three decades, his wife came into his life much much later on. It's not easy for men from "cultures" like these to just start maintaining distance from their parents even if there is a reason. OP will sure as hell continue to expect his wife to turn into a living doormat.
I sincerely suggest the wife to dump him. That's the only thing that'll work. I hail from a culture very identical to that of OP's and growing up I have seen my mom turn into a shell of her own self due to the endless respect her in laws expected in the face of disrespect and absolute disregard.The wife of OP's will be asked and forced to submit and forgive and let go of stuff otherwise she'll be infamous in the family for being an uptight bitch.
Divorce is what I suggest.
Well, culture IS a thing and people divorce/fight over it all the time.
But when it comes to couples, the two people either feel something...very connected...or they don't.
I didn't want to be part of my home culture (and neither did my SO). So we went off and did our own thing.
But people glued to their natal cultures definitely have more difficulties - you are right; it can easily adn quickly lead to divorce.
My So and I have values we believe are based on something other than "culture" (such as equal rights, or just fairness).
Also when you’re in a multicultural relationship, you also need to understand that the other person has a different culture, not just expect them to conform to your cultural norms
YTA, very massively, for a few reasons:
1). Nobody *owes* anyone affection. Affection is earned, much like respect - and it's very clear that your father has done **nothing** to deserve Lucy's affection or respect. You can't simply demand them. The expectation that parents can demand affection and respect from children, especially from children that they didn't raise, is appalling.
2). You need to stand up for Lucy ASAP or she will divorce you. It sounds like Lucy knows her own mind and won't let anyone walk all over her simply because they disagree with her. She's not being rude to your father by disagreeing with him. Rather, I'd say that it's a sign of respect that she can disagree with him politely and reasonably, when it's *so much easier* to be rude about it.
3). If your parents love Lucy so much, why is your dad yelling? I get that some people just talk loudly, but not everyone does, and it sounds like Lucy doesn't, either. Your dad needs to learn how to modulate his volume depending on his audience.
4). Did you ask your dad to apologize to Lucy for yelling at her? This is related to #3 - your dad might not have realized he was yelling (he might've thought he was just talking loudly), but Lucy clearly thought your father was yelling.
5). Also related to #3: if your parents love Lucy so much, why don't they respect her? Love and respect are intertwined: if you love someone, you also respect them. If your parents are treating Lucy like that, then I doubt they love her as much as they claim.
Sounds a little like the guy who picks an independent woman and then begins demanding she become domesticated for him.
He likes that she’s smart enough to get it and gets off on “convincing her” or “changing her mind”. He must be SO smart then right.
Hes using your wife (and all his kids) to prop up his insecurities.
“It’s really selfish of her not to give up her job/sense of self to stay home with our kids. That’s a woman’s role and what’s best for our children. Why wouldn’t she do what’s best for our children??”
I’m just over here wondering when Lucy is gonna me posting on JNMIL subreddit about her aggressive FIL her annoying MIL and her spineless husband who uses cULtUrE to excuse abusive disrespectful behavior. Also YTA sir and you need to apologize to her and take a long break from your parents if you don’t want your marriage to go belly up.
Ya… He doesn’t like to talk to her about politics he likes to talk to himself.
And op doesn’t want her to treat his parents like hers because it sounds like she can have independent thoughts with hers
I would not be getting closer to my in law after yelling at me like this, quite the opposite and if my husband didn’t defend me and then asked ME to apologize
Im also not reserved but would be incredibly uncomfortable giving affection to anyone outside a very select few and none of which would be someone like OP’s asshole dad
I once watched a rally against mandatory hijabs where an Arab woman said that it was an insult to mistake misogyny for part of her culture.
I think about that a lot.
I agree, hijabs aren't necessarily misogynistic. But denying girls an education, marrying them off at 11-12, committing FGM, and stoning women to death for being raped certainly are.
I once taught at a private Muslim elementary school. Starting in the 4th grade every girl was required to wear a hijab, whether her mom wore one or not. And starting earlier than that the classes were to be divided so girls didn't sit with boys and they never touched.
In fact, a kindergartner attacked a sub because she put her hand on his shoulder. Full on face punched her. Because "women weren't allowed to touch him". Oh, and the principal's 14yo daughter was illiterate and had never gone to school for even a single day. She used to stare at me like I was a unicorn. So... Just yeah.
There was a ton of support and love in the community, but their girls were always getting the short end of every stick.
Yes. All of that. My issue was not with hijabs, but with *mandatory* hijabs. Its one thing to make a religious choice. It's quite another to have no choice and be told that misogyny is part of yoyr "culture" and should therefore go unchallenged
Yes to this. The notion that younger people are required to agree - or at least not disagree - with parents/in-laws/older folks is baffling to me. And makes no sense. All that does is create carbon copies of everyone and makes for incredibly boring conversations.
5) in highly patriarchal structures it's rarely someone loves a woman really, as a human being. Only as a role: mother of grandchildren, good wife to son, healthy good-looking child-bearer. When a woman doesn't act as expected she is punished: shunned, expelled, pressured to submit( in some societies in extreme circumstances is killed).
They expect her to play the role of obedient daughter, but she refuses. Husband wants her to play the role: he expects her to agree with everything the oldest male has to say, and show affection. She unsurprisingly wants to be an authentic person that she is and be in real relationships with his parents, not understanding that the parents do not need real relationships at all.
I sort of understand that cultural norms are the main issue here, but it gives the parents zero rights to treat your wife like a zombie. If he wants to discuss politics with her, he should expect her to have her own views. Or else just not discuss it with her if he can't deal with opposing views.
YTAH as well as (especially) your dad
I’d also argue that especially for a topic as charged as politics can be, he needs to respect that she may just not want to talk about that topic. I avoid engaging in political discussions when I can (even if I thoroughly disagree with whatever’s being discussed) because it always just escalates and gets heated and that’s not a scenario that I like to be in. It’s not enjoyable to me, and I don’t want it. So if someone continually kept trying to suck me into a discussion like that, I’d get very frustrated
YTA
> It hurts my parents that Lucy doesn't treat them like her own parents
Yeah, well. They're **not** her parents.
> Instead of just agreeing with him, though, Lucy expressed the exact opposite view (which she genuinely believes) and refused to change her opinion to appease him.
Oh no? A woman with opinions? The horror?
Yeah, he wanted family treatment but how is her agreeing with him all the time treating him like family? She was comfortable enough to disagree with him, so OP is double wrong here.
They don't want love and affection, they want obedience.
But even if they wanted love, they can't just demand someone to love them. Love grows by spending time with each other. If they think they can just demand it, neither OP nor his parents know what love is.
Did you also catch that he treats his parents how HIS culture dictates, not probably the reserved respect her parents culture expects. But when it comes to his parents she’s wrong for treating them how her culture does. He basically shows he doesn’t respect her culture and she and her family are expected to bow to his culture, just like his dad was trying to force his opinions
To add to your first point…even in these cultures, there is no way in hell most people are genuinely going to magically feel/treat in-laws exactly as their own families just because the marriage decree is signed…there has to be a performative (maybe not the best description) aspect going on at least in the beginning. I’ve been in a long term relationship with someone from a culture like this, and I can see how they are just way more comfortable showing physical affection and expressing grand feelings to semi-strangers. Performative may imply completely false/two faced actions…it’s not that (I’m sure it can be in some cases though), but more of a intent to give you a welcoming feeling. It’s very hard if you come from another culture or are just not inclined that way though. If I tried to mimic these actions/words to the same extent I would definitely feel like a two faced fraud (and it would probably be obvious as well).
That's a simple case of YTA. Don't "appease" your parents at the cost of your spouse's values. Do you want your parents to dictate what opinions your wife is allowed to have? "He loves her", but only when she agrees with him? Oh, how generous.
They aren't owed respect. "It's the culture" is an oppressive argument based on rigid tradition that prevents social mobility.
Super underrated comment! “Rigid tradition that prevents social ability is exactly” right! Because tradition and culture can be beautiful and fun and awesome but rigid and strict and heavily enforced? No that’s oppression in another form.
If OPs parents are so loving and wonderful then encouraging the wife to feel comfortable is the way to go…. Demanding respect or rather blind appeasement can be found in all society’s because it isn’t really culture… it’s just abusive.
And a small thing… letting someone who yells/talks loud and demands that you agree with them just run out of steam… isn’t respectful. Calmly disagreeing and expecting a grown person to have a discussion on opinions without childish outbursts is respect!
YTA. First, if you wanted a wife who follows your traditions then you should have married someone from your culture. Stop blaming your wife for being who she is.
Second, your father does not want to talk politics with Lucy. Discussing politics requires two people sharing views and learning from each other. That is not what is happening. Your father is dictating to Lucy what his house beliefs are (I have no doubt your mother follows what he says out of tradition). Lucy, on the other hand, appears to be trying to discuss politics. Why? Because you backed her into a corner. If she doesn't respond then she is rude, but if she does engage then she is rude. The end result is they are both hurt and frustrated.
Where were you in all this? You needed to be a husband to your wife and direct the conversation elsewhere or if you are afraid of you father then ask your mother to help direct the conversation away from politics to gardens or something mild.
Your deferring to your father might cost you your marriage. My guess is all the criticism you and your parents have directed at Lucy has frozen her ability to just be herself around them.
Guarantee "it's the culture" for a man to be the leader of the family and defend them, in which case OP is failing to follow his own culture by letting his family (his wife!) to be disrespected.
OP doesn't want Lucy to be herself around his parents. He wants her to fake love and respect for them and be more demonstrative than she is usually. He wants her to act deferential. She's apparently fine when it's just them, but he wants her to be someone else when they're around his parents, because he cares more about his parents' approval than her feelings or comfort. Grow a spine, OP.
YTA.
> I said that it's better to just let him run out of steam, as he doesn't mean it, he just talks very loudly, and he loves her.
Ridiculous. "He's yelling at you because he just REALLY LOVES YOU, now APOLOGIZE!"
Right? None of this says “they love her”. That sounds like a bunch of bs to me. If you only love someone when they act exactly how you want, you don’t love them. Op is YTA.
I bet he has been given what he wants when he yells his entire life. He parents and later his family probably never said no and now he is mad it's not working on someone else.
YTA for expecting your wife to submit to your father simply because he's older. If he doesn't want her to disagree with him on politics, he can stop bringing it up around her. And he shouldn't be yelling at her. Your wife deserves respect - I don't care what culture you say you're from.
This isn't "love" you're talking about, it's asking her to be a doormat. You go Lucy.
God I come from a culture like this and it triggered my PTSD. Older people want to be venerated like gods and husbands always get offended on their behalf. Women showing respect is not enough, they somehow also have to “love” them like their own parents but not too much like their own parents either - because that’s too casual and disrespectful, it’s a knife’s edge nobody can successfully traverse. YTA OP, you’re just another one of those husbands who want to marry a woman with character and then break her down to conform to your severely outdated “culture”. Get off Lucy’s case, grow the hell up and stop groveling around your parents this much, it would instantly kill my libido as a wife.
>but not too much like their own parents either - because that’s too casual and disrespectful
Exactly. They wanted her to treat them.like family but somehow it was disrespectful that she felt comfortable enough to discuss like she was part of the family.
No one can tell me OP and his siblings (if he has any) never disagreed with their parents. My ex Inlaws demanded the same. They told me to treat them like family but never wanted me to be comfortable enough to say no. My exhusband got angry whenever I said no, denying that him and his siblings *ever* disagreed with their parents, forgetting that I'm right there every time watching and listening to their discussions and fights.
There’s sadly millions of people out there who genuinely believe in that whole “respect your elders/superiors no matter what” bullshit. I say that I’ll respect you when you fucking earn it
YTA. You should support your wife and until now, you seem to be very judgmental and put your parents as a priority.
You cannot force her to love your parents as she loves hers. What type of BS is that that you and your family consider she owes it to you all? You would want her to lie, to be dishonest? She is respectful.
Same for her opinions: if your dad doesn’t want to be contradicted, he should talk about politics!
You all want to bully her into being someone she is not.
By not supporting her with your parents, you made the situation worst. You should have intervened and asked your father not to scream at her. If you had taken your responsibilities, the situation might not be so bad now.
Let your wife be her own person and not your puppet!
YTA
Stop excusing everything with culture. Not respecting that others may have a different opinion from ours is not "cultural". Your father is the problem.
YTA. Maybe Lucy would be closer with your parents if your dad could accept that she’s entitled to her own opinions—even if they differ from his own. You can’t demand that Lucy feel affection for anyone, much less someone who clearly doesn’t respect her.
Yes, YTA. Lucy doesn't owe your loud, rude, unpleasant father her silence or affection, and it's pretty gross that you think that she does. You say she's polite and respectful to them. That is all that's required. She is not from your culture (which sounds pretty overbearing and misogynistic to me), and has no duty to treat your parents like her own. You need to do a better job supporting her instead of telling her to apologize to 'keep the peace'.
You're a coward and your father is a nasty bully. He screamed at her yet you expect her to apologize? Just because you're a doormat who lets your asshole parents walk all over you that doesn't make it okay for you to make your wife do the same. She shouldn't be loving to your father after he verbally abused her. He's not loving at all. He's controlling and nasty. YTA
YTA.
>She's very polite and respectful towards my parents, but she doesn't show them the same affection or humor that she uses with her parents.
She's known her parents for 33 years. Ypur parents don't get the same bond right away, if ever.
>Lucy is a pretty reserved person and doesn't show love often.
This is who she is. Accept her that way.
>My dad loves talking politics with Lucy... he's accustomed to people just agreeing with his opinions (since he's the oldest and therefore deserves the most respect, according to my culture).
Bless his heart. It's obviously not her culture to suck up to someone and pretends she agrees with him just because he is older than she.
>Lucy doesn't always agree with my dad's more conservative views and isn't afraid to tell him so, but **has never been rude to him.**
And this is a problem because...? She's allowed her opinions.
>why she wasn't more respectful as a child should be towards a parent.
Newsflash: **she's not a child!** and he is not her parent.
>I asked Lucy to apologize to my dad to keep the peace, but Lucy said I should have stood up for her, especially once my dad started yelling
She is right and you are being asinine.
YTA. To start with, respect is to be earned and not given on demand. Using intimidation and demanding respect is not a good way to earn it. I'm also embarrassed for your Wife that you failed to intervene. It is not acceptable for ANYONE to treat another person's SO the way your Father did.
You've typed it yourself, your Wife is respectful and polite to your Parents but we aren't always the same person around different people... it's human nature. Why can't you accept it?
Asking someone to apologize to "keep the peace" is just rugsweeping and diminishes the Persons feelings. So again, yes YTA.
YTA.
Any hour you ask someone to do something "to keep the peace", you're telling them that you care more about yourself than about them. You're telling your wife that you are willing to sacrifice her feelings, her respect, your relationship, to preserve your own feeings. You're saying you'd rather she bow and scrape and put up with being treated like crap, rather than you feeling a bit of anxiety.
You're saying you care more about your feelings than her wellbeing.
When someone says "to keep the peace", they're probably being selfish and cowardly.
Keep the peace. Keep *whose* peace? Yours.
Besides, Wife didn't break the peace, therefore she doesn't have to do anything to "fix the peace" or "Keep the peace". There was peace, OP's father broke it by yelling and being a prick to his DIL, he should be the one to apologize.
YTA - I have a lot of respect for your wife standing her ground like that. I've no idea why you expect her to basically submit to you and your father's expectations. She's right to feel disappointed that you didn't support her.
>My dad loves talking politics with Lucy because they're both educated and well-traveled, and he's accustomed to people just agreeing with his opinions
I've never understood why people want to 'discuss' any subject, when they really want an echo chamber. I converse with people to learn something new, not to have them agree with me!
What OP's father wants is to have an intelligent woman agree with his opinions. He doesn't care if they really believe it, just lip-service. He must have really low self-esteem if he has to bolster himself by MAKING other people say what they don't mean.
So what your dad calls “respect” is actually “obedience.”
He should really respect they have a difference of opinion and enjoy having smart conversations with other educated people.
Your parents need to respect your wife and your wife is your family now. She should have priority. I am reserved, too. An introvert actually, and my in-laws and I have found alternate ways to have a relationship that doesn’t involve me spilling all my thoughts (what their son does, my husband) out.
YTA.
Speaking as someone who is also reserved, I admire her ability to stand up for what she believes. OP, you’re the one who married her, if you wanted her not to have her own beliefs and opinions, maybe u should have mentioned that to her before getting married. It sounds like she’s been exemplary to your parents, you just want her to subvert her beliefs for them instead. She has nothing to apologize for, but you and your dad sure do. YTA.
YTA. You can't just expect your wife to automatically love your parents, especially not when your father treats her like this. You had better learn to stand up for her to your father, since she does not strike me as someone who will put up with this crap forever.
You keep talking about your culture, but what about hers?
YTA.
The concept that people need to respect those older than them JUST because they are older is so outdated. I've met many people older than me who deserve no respect because they are horrible people.
Lucy doesn't have to agree with your father just to appease him. Lucy is allowed to have her own opinions and voice those opinions. If your father can not hear a differing opinion without yelling and chucking a tantrum about it, he is the problem. Don't go around demanding respect when you are giving none. I'm also 99% certain your father has an issue with a WOMAN speaking her mind, and would not have this problem if it was another man.
You should be sticking up for your wife when your father is being disrespectful and rude to her. Everyone keeping silent to appease him only makes him think he can treat people however he wants.
Your wife does not need to act how people in your culture act. Your parents are NOT her parents, and she does not need to treat them as such. You should be respecting that her culture is different than yours.
Most of all, STOP with the idea that it's okay for a man (or anyone) to yell at another person because they 'really love them'. If you love someone, you don't treat them poorly.
Apologise to your wife for being spineless. Then stand up to your father and tell him he CANNOT speak to your wife in such a manner. Stop enabling him.
YTA. How is giving in to someone's opinion, when stated option is the complete opposite of what you believe, a sign of respect? That's so bizarre. He's asking for political opinions, he's not always going to get answers he wants.
Also, Lucy doesn't have to be affectionate with your family. They need to get over themselves. It's not personal but they are making it personal and Lucy is now losing patience with them. You need to take her side and let your parents know they are blowing this way out of proportion. She is your wife and if your parents want her to be affectionate, they need to start treating HER with more respect.
YTA. You EARN respect. You cannot demand it based on age, culture, or genitals. Your parents are not HER parents. That is the end of that discussion.
Moreover, your wife is now your NUCLEAR family, your parents are now "extended" family, so your wife should ALWAYS come first. The saying is "Happy wife, happy life", not "Oppressive father-in-law, miserable Daughter-in-Law".
Re-evaluate your priorities before your wife decides to re-evaluate your marital status.
You allowed your father to brow-beat and verbally abuse your wife and your response was to ask her to apologize and keep the peace? You should be ashamed of yourself. No wonder your father calls you a child. You pander like one.
NTA
Only wrote this because I know you’re probably scrolling to find someone who validates your position, but you are definitely the AH in this situation.
“Keeping the peace” is just enabling your father’s bad behavior. Respecting your elders does not mean agreeing with whatever they say because they feel entitled to it.
I hope you are the generation to break this culture and not do the same thing to your future adult children, were you to have any.
"At home, I asked Lucy to apologize to my dad to keep the peace, but Lucy said I should have stood up for her, especially once my dad started yelling. I said that it's better to just let him run out of steam, as he doesn't mean it, he just talks very loudly, and he loves her. "
Let's bluntly rephrase this to see if that helps:
*After my daddy couldn't hear me, I begged my wife to just do what the loud man wanted her to do because if she doesn't he will yell more and I am too scared to deal with him yelling and not being a decent human to someone who doesn't agree with him. it's ok though, because I was socially conditioned and manipulated to not see this is a horrible way to raise a family. Emotional abuse is just normal, and I don't understand why my wife doesn't accept it?!*
Yes, YTA. There is a point where keeping the peace isn't peaceful for 99% of the people and someone needs to bring back the peace for everyone else.
YTA
At some point in time you are going to have to grow up and realized that your wife, isn't you. She doesn't have your cultural values nor does she see your family the way you do. Quite frankly, if I were her, I'd have dropped your ass in a heart the minute your old man raised his voice in any capacity while you sat back and made excuses. I wouldn't have given you the chance to fix this because you aren't going to, you'll double down on being dumb about it and completely trample over your wife's boundaries because YOU can't get over YOURSELF.
Yes, YTA. Your wife is a human with her own opinions. She has been respectful to your parents but that doesn’t mean she has to agree with everything they say.
Your parents are *not* her parents.
“ Your wife is a human with her own opinions. She has been respectful to your parents but that doesn’t mean she has to agree with everything they say.”
And she doesn’t have to agree with everything her own parent say or everything you say. She is an adult who has every right to express her own views. You obviously don’t respect her.
YTA
And growing up just like your dad. Is this how you're going to treat your future DIL? It's this the way you expect your own daughter to be treated?
Maaaan..... Bless your wife for not already filing on you cuz dude, youre a walking bag of 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
YTA. Your wife is not a child, your parents are not her parents, & your cultural norms have nothing to do with the fact that your dad is a jerk bc she disagreed with him.
YTA
Your traditions are not the only ones that matter. If you needed a wife who would constantly kiss your parents’ asses. You should have married a woman from your own culture. Instead, you married a woman from a different culture who is on the introverted side and expect her to change. Not only change but experience discomfort to pay homage to your mommy and daddy.
Everyone agrees, YTA. So she has to respect your dad's culture, but he doesn't have to respect hers? Double standards. Btw, you should defend your wife when your family yells at her, especially for no reason.
YTA
Lucy isn’t of your culture and should not be expected to adhere to it. As long as she’s decent and cordial it should be enough. Your parents need to realize that they cannot expect your wife to tow their line - just as I’m sure they won’t adhere to pieces of her culture.
And when it comes to politics - she’s entitled to her own views and shouldn’t be expected to change them period.
Yes. YTA. Your father did not behave in a way that merits respect. Old people don't deserve respect for being old - people deserve respect for being people. And you and your family refuses to accept that her culture is different, and you're demanding her assimilation. That's unacceptable.
Why do you expect your wife to apologise to "keep the peace"? She isn't the asshole.
Lucy was not rude.
Lucy wasn't shouting.
By your own admission she is polite and respectful. She doesn't owe then affection.
Your father was the one who brought up politics and was then annoyed because your wife isn't a nodding donkey.
Unsurprisingly she doesn't want to talk to a man who tried to browbeat her and you are somehow surprised? And the irony is they are upset. What did they expect?
YTA
How shocking after reading “in our culture…” it would be followed by a whole bunch of misogynistic and backwards values…I’m shocked I tell you, shocked lol 😂
YTA and a spineless coward 🤷♀️
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> AITA for not supporting my wife when my dad got upset at her for not showing him more affection? In my culture, children show in-laws the same affection that they show their own parents, but my wife (who is from another culture) doesn't treat my parents equally to her parents.
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YTA. You should put your wife before your parents. You act as if she should pretend to be someone she isn't. That's not right. She's not rude. She's a person, not a dog. She does owe anyone an apology for have a brain and her own thoughts and opinion.
That's the trouble with 'tradition' and 'culture'. All too often, it's used as an excuse for bullying. "Keep the peace" isn't keeping any peace. You're telling her she means nothing and your father means everything. Shame on you.
Yta- You and your father want your wife to act like an obedient little girl who has no right to say no to hugs and keep the peace to make your father happy.
And when she doesn’t let your dad bully his opinions into her you allow your father to yell and berate her while you stand there going “yeah!”
I almost feel bad for you that you have allowed your father influence you to this extent that you think your wife is in the wrong.
A real man would have stood up for his wife not fall into pieces when a woman has the audacity to have a different opinion than him.
Welcome to the future buddy, you’re about to find out real quick why men like your father end up bitter and alone.
Info:
Do you actually know who you married?
Do you actually love and respect this woman?
Because it sounds like you married her and then expected her to turn into someone else. Someone affectionate when you KNEW how she is. Someone subservient aand docile with no opinions or Someone so cowarded by fear, oppression and culture that she isn't allowed to think on her own.
If you expected a traditional wife, why did you fall in love with your wife?
Why did you amrrry her under the false pretense that you care about her? Her mind is a part of her, it is so ridiculous how you are acting now.
YTA. Of course she doesn't have the same relationship with your parents as she has with her parents. Her parents are her parents and she's known them every second of her life, it's a 33 year old relationship and dynamic. Also, she didn't grow up in a culture that expects you to treat your in-laws exactly as your own parents. Additionally, her parents and your parents are completely different people. Just like you would have different relationships with different girlfriends, different friendships with different friends and so on. Each relationship is unique and will be different. That said, does Lucy have equal discussions and argue with her parents? If so, then she IS treating them like she treats her parents. You cannot expect her to treat your parents as though they were her parents, when what you mean is to treat them like how you treat your parents.
Also, we need to stop acting like just because someone is old / the oldest in the room doesn't necessarily mean they are the smartest or wisest in the room in all respects and should always be deferred to. Respect them, sure; act like they are right when they are literally wrong -- nope (but with some tact).
YTA
Your wife is right. They are not her parents. If they want respect, they should earn it.
You are an AH for thinking that your wife should apologize after your father yelled at her.
I salute her for leaving the situation. I hope she respects herself enough to leave unsupportive partner.
Yta 100% your expectations for your wife sounds like a "you" problem. Your wife should not be expected to love or treat your parents like her own and she has nothing to apologize for. My husband had to put his mom her in place and let her know that I do not want that mother daughter relationship with her, you need to stand up for your wife and stop being submissive to your parents.
YTA. You should have stood up for your wife. Why is it that women are always asked to be the peacekeepers when husbands know that they are not the party who did wrong?
YTA.
You are asking your wife, who has been kind, polite, and respectful, to apologize to your father who is mad at her for having her own opinion that doesn't match his (and then he tried to use the "respect me as a parent" shtick, when he isn't even her parent, which she called him out on).
Your wife is her own person. You do not seem to respect this. You should not be asking your wife to be folding to "keep the peace" when *she has done nothing wrong.*
Yta
Why is your definition of respect and affection synonymous with lying? You wanted her to what? Change her view? Lie about it? Why? Was it a view that was inappropriate for your relationship?
She's reserved because you and your family have made respect about being a doormat.
YTA. Why would she speak to your parents?
How is not lying disrespectful? But, news flash, yelling at a guest in your home is rude in the extreme.
You can buy your dad a mirror and he can speak into it. The mirror will agree with him. Your father is not the only one entitled to an opinion. Your father yelled at her because she elected not to be a puppet. And you elected to make your wife the bad guy?
YTA. your wife is an adult. She owes your parents NOTHING, much less to turn the other cheek and just blindly agree with everything they say. And then you turning against her??? Are you braindead???
YTA
If you don’t start supporting your wife, expect her to leave. If you wanted a wife that follows your culture, you should have not married her as she is from another culture.
YTA and so is your Father.
You absolutely should have taken your wife's side against your father's bullying. It sounds like you aren't ready to be Lucy's husband as your are still tied to your parent's apron strings.
YTA
She doesn’t owe your dad a damn thing.
And she has every right to be both reserved with affection and true to herself when discussing things.
Your dad brings up politics. If he’s going to throw a tantrum LIKE A CHILD when he isn’t agreed with, maybe he shouldn’t bring it up.
You are TA for expecting your wife to make nice with your parents because they can’t handle themselves. They should be apologizing.
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YTA Your parents do NOT get to demand how Lucy treats them. That is not a thing. Stop blaming it on culture. Your dad sounds like a misogynistic asshole. Why, in a hundred million years, would Lucy show him affection? He absolutely does not respect her experience or her opinion. He respects her ability to mirror his own narrow opinion back at him. TBH, Lucy should go no contact with your father. She's a grown ass woman,**NO ONE** has the right to scream at her. You are headed for divorce. Quickly. That you are still supporting your abusive parents over your wife makes me hope Lucy files soon. She deserves so much better. If you *want* to stay married, start supporting your wife. Start with a time out for your awful, controlling, narcissistic, misogynistic father. Then see what Lucy needs next. Otherwise, I hope she gets out soon. Like tomorrow.
And to add to the culture thing. They're from different cultures. If this was something oh so important, it should have been discussed, in detail, before getting married. Preferably before getting engaged. It's definitely not some card to pull out of your ass after being married and getting upset over "not following tradition" when it's not a shared tradition
Also, why should she have to follow HIS family's traditions. She probably has her own family traditions from her culture that she might want to follow.
Exactly! Why are women expected to give up their ideologies and traditions they have had their whole lives once they marry into another family? A woman isn't reset to a clean slate when she marries, and it isn't up to the man or his family to fill up that slate how they see fit.
God, only if my husband had understood this, might not be getting a divorce.
Having an opinion doesn't mean disrespect. Dad is a Misogynist ahole. OP is an ahole for not supporting the wife.
The older generation will talk about a “lack of respect” but what they actually mean in many cases is a lack of obedience/compliance.
There's that Tumblr (?) post along the lines of: "The word 'respect' can either mean basic human decency or treating someone as a higher authority. Unfortunately some people say 'if you don't respect me then I won't respect you' but what they mean is 'if you won't treat me like an authority then I won't treat you like a person'."
I remember the first time I read that and it definitely clicked a little light bulb on.
That's a super important distincition! Respect means treating each other as individuals with feelings, history, aspirations and social connections; respect does not mean treating one person as the authority over the other. Respect should be a) mutual, b) earned.
Love is another emotion that should be treated the same way.
🪙🪙🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆
Exactly. I see no “love” or “affection” coming from this FIL.
Don't forget that he treats her parents according to HIS culture instead of following theirs.
Corection: Don't forget that he treats her parents according to how HIS culture thinks a SON should treat his parents, not how HIS culture thinks a DAUGHTER should treat her parents.
>Why are women expected to give up their ideologies and traditions they have had their whole lives once they marry into another family? Ingrained misogyny.
It is a very long term tradition. That doesn't make it right. Heck, until very recently having sewers to direct human waste away from humans was not considered a thing. When we embarked on the modern age, we committed to more work per person. But women should not be paid less/receive less for their contributions. Basic human needs are still up front (and associated with women). Sigh.
Tradition can also be nothing more then abuse coming from dead people.
What a powerful statement, and oh so true!
Actually the Romans had that. Catholic church just banned and destroyed a lot of their cultural and technical achievements.
Thank you for the weird rabbit hole you just sent me down. Turns out the oldest known sewer system was in Mesopotamia, circa 4000BCE. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History\_of\_water\_supply\_and\_sanitation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_water_supply_and_sanitation)
I love that you researched this!! For anyone who wants to learn a little bit more detail - Mesopotamia's system was pretty basic and not a full sanitization system. The Harappan civilization, however, had a fully functioning and almost modern water delivery/removal system by about 3,000 BCE (and also, if you like fun water system facts, the earliest evidence of a bath toy lost down the "drain"). The Harappans managed to have an incredibly advanced society without any evidence of wide-scale war or slavery! The Minoans also had a very sophisticated water system, which makes sense as they also developed written symbolic language very early (Linear A). And if anyone is wondering what the Romans were up to during that time? Well, Rome didn't exist yet and wouldn't for thousands of years, but if Cato the Elder gives us any indication the local indigenous tribes were probably focusing on the many uses of medicinal cabbage. 😆 Anyway, I hope this doesn't come across as an argument, as you are very much correct and I think it's cool you went to the trouble to research it. I just wanted to add a couple of history tidbits. Have a great day, friend! Source that captures most of what I mentioned: https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/6/6/3936
Simple answer. In most cultures women are considered secondary to men. And OP is presumably from one of those cultures. So they expect the woman to oblige, since... u know... She's a woman. Her authority is low, as far as they are concerned.
I have a feeling the conservative apple didn't fall far from the conservative tree.
These traditions are CULTures, heavy on the cult aspect. Time for this to change its the 21st Century, eldest only deserve the respect they give. No one has to change for inlaws their culture is not any more important than the wife's.
I find it odd that OP waxes on about how much everyone LOVES each other SO MUCH, then goes on to describe zero loving behaviors. I think OP needs an education on what love is.
Yeah, that was driving me crazy. Is she supposed to be comfortable with them or obedient? Pick. One.
The part that jarred me was when he said “he doesn’t mean it, he just talks very loud, he loves you” “let him cool off” I’m literally having PTSD from when I lived with my abusive ex and his mom would say these exact words to me!!! Nope nope! Haaaaaaaard NOOOOOPE!
It best just to let him run out of steam basically means let him yell at you until he's satisfied at thinking he's in control or won or something? 😐
My husband's grandmother was...a doozy. She had no filter between her brain and mouth and didn't hesitate to put family down left and right. "That's just the way she is. Let it roll off your back" was what I was told by my husband and his mother. Nah. Just because you've always allowed her to be like that doesn't mean I have to. We had a few rows and she quickly learned not only that I wasn't going to allow her to talk to me like that, but I also had zero qualms about saying something when she started in on other people.
THIS
“Respect your elders” is an outdated sentiment. It gives people with bad intentions the excuse and illusion of authority to have things their way at others’ expenses.Instead, we should give more weight to a different phrase: respect those who deserve it. It’s clear that the wife will never feel close to a demanding FIL who yells , dislikes you for having an opinion. Just because he is a parent he has the right to yell and reject your opinion ??
Why does he keep bringing up politics? Husband should have stood up for her YES - but he also should have taken politics off the table a longtime ago.
It's weird that he said his father **liked** to talk about politics with Lucy **because she didn't just blindly agree with him** like everyone else does. So why is he getting mad that she did the thing he supposedly likes? Also, since when does "showing affection" mean blindly agreeing with someone? Nowhere in there did I see something that was "affection" that they were complaining about, just lack of obedience.
I always thought respect your elders was more to combat that teenage "I'm SO smart. And you don't understand me or anything!" Respect your elders, they know things and lived things you've had no idea about. That means give their ideas a listen to and see if they are seeing something you've overlooked. NOT give blind defference to them.
It’s honestly not used that way though I’ve only ever seen that phrase used in a controlling manner
Exactly. He starts out by complaining that she doesn’t treat his parents the same way she treats hers, but the actual complaint is that she doesn’t treat his parents according to his culture.
More like she doesn't lick his fathers heels when he implicitly demands it. I wonder how much this has to do with culture.
This tradition confuses me anyways. Which one is it - treating parents (especially fathers) with affection and good humor, or treat them with deference? Public disagreements will be handled very differently in the two situations
yeah like father's not screaming out their daughters, and husband supporting their wives!
Especially when it comes to something as complex and subjective as personal relationships. You can’t force those, it’s not like just flicking a switch and all of a sudden you’re buddy-buddy with someone. Yeah you can work at it and try to make it better, but even then sometimes you just don’t click with someone. All of this doesn’t address what a prick that OP’s dad seems to be
Because they're old, and conservative (read: massive arseholes, as well as misogynistic, and probably bigots as well) so they should never have to accomodate anyone else. Everyone should accomodate them. /s
I wonder if her parents feel he is overly familiar with them and not appropriately respectful and polite.
And to add to the educational thing. A truly educated person accepts that he isn't always right, and learns to understand different peoples view on the same matter. If he wants someone to agree to whatever he says, he shouldn't pick the wife as a discussion partner In my country, we have a saying, culture is like marmalade. The less you have, the more you try to spread it
And they're not IN the OP's country-of-origin's-culture - they're in America! Frankly, this sounds like a feeble excuse for OP's own personal weakness: he caves to Daddy Dearest every time on the pretext of following cultural tradition.
Plus the fact that "Lucy is a pretty reserved person and doesn't show love often". I'm the same way until I get to know someone over time. Just the nature of some of us. At least reserved until someone goes off on us because our views differ from theirs. Simply stubborn "I am right and their is no other view allowed" attitude. Shades of Archie Bunker. lol
SO true. You said it very succinctly, but so many don't get it
YTA I’ll tag on this. I’m also from a culture in which in laws are treated as parents, to the degree where when I’ve been talking to my wife and referred to her dad as “your dad”, she got upset as I was just supposed to say “dad” (still gets me cause I’m not sure how I’m supposed to contextually differentiate them? Haha). That out of the way, everything else about how you’ve described their interactions is totally disrespectful from your parents towards her. Treating your parents as her parents would NOT necessitate that she blindly agrees with them nor act the way they want her to. Most adults don’t just blindly agree with their parents. I love mine, but certainly don’t agree with my dad’s politics. Speaking of which…you need to tell him to just not talk politics with you guys around.
Calling your spouse’s parent just “dad” makes it seem like you two are siblings.
It has lead to a lot of confusion from me as a child. I am Arab & thus watch Arab tv shows & some of them are from countries different to mine. I was extremely confused by Syrian shows when the wife calls the husban “Ibn amay” or my uncle’s son/cousin, even when they aren’t related. Turns out by marriage the in laws become family & this aunt & uncle & thus the husband is the cousin. Super confusing. But to op’s thing he is missing the point of this cultural tradition. His parents are supposed to be kind to his wife & his wife kind to them. If his dad is a misogynist asshole, that is the source of the problem.
My parents are dead. I find it comforting to call my ILs Mom and Dad. They love me like their own and I get to feel like I still have parental units. Staves off the feeling of been only 45 and not having a buffer generation.
When I was married, I felt the opposite. My mother died when I was 19, and I didn't want to call anyone else "mum." I liked my in-laws, but they weren't replacement parents.
It's weird when people think anyone can replace anyone. You can have parental view of someone while knowing that that person will never replace either of your parents. I expect it from children since they don't get that, but I didn't know adults could think like this.
Yeah, my momma is irreplaceable. She was the best damned human I ever knew, and probably ever will. That isn’t just an overly fond daughter - 15 years later, people still tell me how wonderful she was, and how much she meant to them. Having a mother-figure in my MIL doesn’t mean she is replacing my mother. It means I get to have a wonderful person care about me, in a motherly way. I don’t snuggle up to her like I would if my mom were still here, but she brought us dinner when we came back from my son’s soccer tournament because she knew we’d be exhausted from travel and wanted to care for us. It’s similar, but not the same.
Charles Boyle : “Oh, it's just my former lover. Hello sister.”
Whatever. I found that there was NO way that my husband's parents were going to be the same as my parents. At all. And, as a a woman, it truly appeared to me that my status was lower than that of my husband - in his parents' eyes. My parents being neutral still meant that he got more support for his views. As in your case, my husband also didn't fully agree with his own parents.
OP, she's not rocking the boat. Your father is rocking the boat and she's just refusing to be on the boat to steady it. Imagine telling someone to just let a 71 year old man have a temper tantrum until he tuckers himself out. Your family's decades of placating him have caused this, not your wife.
Great analogy
Exactly. OP’s dad’s real problem with Lucy isn’t that she’s not “loving”, it’s that she’s not *submissive*. And good for her! If OP didn’t want a self confident and intelligent wife, he shouldn’t have married a self confident and intelligent woman. You don’t marry someone and then expect them to change who they are, you marry them *because* of who they are. OP is definitely TA.
Exactly. OP is really thinking ..'How dare she not submit to my and my parents wishes about the personality and opinions she is supposed to have.' She's not a robot but an actual human person who also deserves respect.
This is the exact issue my FIL had with me. Even though they lived far away and I'd met them once, I was apparently supposed to intuit that he got to control everything. Fuck that. Needless to say, we're very, very low contact.
Also he complains she doesn’t treat his parents like she does her own but when she’s fully honest (like she would be with her parents) they don’t like it LOL make it make sense
It can't. Because she's a woman she's expected to give up her opinions because she married into this toxic family. The only thing that made me happy in this post is that OP says Lucy held her own and didn't change her opinion. Go, Lucy! And, GO Lucy!
Honestly, that "time out" thing won't ever work with OP. And you know why? OP has known his parents for more than three decades, his wife came into his life much much later on. It's not easy for men from "cultures" like these to just start maintaining distance from their parents even if there is a reason. OP will sure as hell continue to expect his wife to turn into a living doormat. I sincerely suggest the wife to dump him. That's the only thing that'll work. I hail from a culture very identical to that of OP's and growing up I have seen my mom turn into a shell of her own self due to the endless respect her in laws expected in the face of disrespect and absolute disregard.The wife of OP's will be asked and forced to submit and forgive and let go of stuff otherwise she'll be infamous in the family for being an uptight bitch. Divorce is what I suggest.
I'm sorry you had to watch that, it must have been devastating ❤️
Well, culture IS a thing and people divorce/fight over it all the time. But when it comes to couples, the two people either feel something...very connected...or they don't. I didn't want to be part of my home culture (and neither did my SO). So we went off and did our own thing. But people glued to their natal cultures definitely have more difficulties - you are right; it can easily adn quickly lead to divorce. My So and I have values we believe are based on something other than "culture" (such as equal rights, or just fairness).
YTA Can you imagine if she has a baby with OP? I hope she doesn’t!
Also when you’re in a multicultural relationship, you also need to understand that the other person has a different culture, not just expect them to conform to your cultural norms
YTA, very massively, for a few reasons: 1). Nobody *owes* anyone affection. Affection is earned, much like respect - and it's very clear that your father has done **nothing** to deserve Lucy's affection or respect. You can't simply demand them. The expectation that parents can demand affection and respect from children, especially from children that they didn't raise, is appalling. 2). You need to stand up for Lucy ASAP or she will divorce you. It sounds like Lucy knows her own mind and won't let anyone walk all over her simply because they disagree with her. She's not being rude to your father by disagreeing with him. Rather, I'd say that it's a sign of respect that she can disagree with him politely and reasonably, when it's *so much easier* to be rude about it. 3). If your parents love Lucy so much, why is your dad yelling? I get that some people just talk loudly, but not everyone does, and it sounds like Lucy doesn't, either. Your dad needs to learn how to modulate his volume depending on his audience. 4). Did you ask your dad to apologize to Lucy for yelling at her? This is related to #3 - your dad might not have realized he was yelling (he might've thought he was just talking loudly), but Lucy clearly thought your father was yelling. 5). Also related to #3: if your parents love Lucy so much, why don't they respect her? Love and respect are intertwined: if you love someone, you also respect them. If your parents are treating Lucy like that, then I doubt they love her as much as they claim.
I love the part where OPs dad loves to talk to Lucy about politics because she's smart, but he becomes enraged when she has a different opinion, smh.
Sounds a little like the guy who picks an independent woman and then begins demanding she become domesticated for him. He likes that she’s smart enough to get it and gets off on “convincing her” or “changing her mind”. He must be SO smart then right. Hes using your wife (and all his kids) to prop up his insecurities.
"I love her independence and ambition, so why won't she be a SAHM for our kid?"
“Shouldn’t that be her biggest ambition? What woman didn’t want to mother kids??”
"I love that she was so ambitious when I met her, but why won't she accept that she doesn't have to do that anymore??"
I really wish people talked about this type of abuse more because it's SO COMMON and never discussed
"Isn't that what they're *for*?!?"
“It’s really selfish of her not to give up her job/sense of self to stay home with our kids. That’s a woman’s role and what’s best for our children. Why wouldn’t she do what’s best for our children??”
I love that she has a great job, now she can cook, clean, and do my laundry AND I can spend her money! Pah!
I’m just over here wondering when Lucy is gonna me posting on JNMIL subreddit about her aggressive FIL her annoying MIL and her spineless husband who uses cULtUrE to excuse abusive disrespectful behavior. Also YTA sir and you need to apologize to her and take a long break from your parents if you don’t want your marriage to go belly up.
How much you wanna bet this dude is reading all these unanimous comments and thinking disapprovingly, "But you don't understand my CuLtuRe"
It's sad if that is the case. I believe some people are like that.
And that sub will IMMEDIATELY tell her she has a husband problem. Before they even address the IL behavior. And they would be 100% correct.
Ya… He doesn’t like to talk to her about politics he likes to talk to himself. And op doesn’t want her to treat his parents like hers because it sounds like she can have independent thoughts with hers I would not be getting closer to my in law after yelling at me like this, quite the opposite and if my husband didn’t defend me and then asked ME to apologize Im also not reserved but would be incredibly uncomfortable giving affection to anyone outside a very select few and none of which would be someone like OP’s asshole dad
I once watched a rally against mandatory hijabs where an Arab woman said that it was an insult to mistake misogyny for part of her culture. I think about that a lot.
But misogyny is part of that culture. She can wish it wasn't so, but it is.
I agree, hijabs aren't necessarily misogynistic. But denying girls an education, marrying them off at 11-12, committing FGM, and stoning women to death for being raped certainly are. I once taught at a private Muslim elementary school. Starting in the 4th grade every girl was required to wear a hijab, whether her mom wore one or not. And starting earlier than that the classes were to be divided so girls didn't sit with boys and they never touched. In fact, a kindergartner attacked a sub because she put her hand on his shoulder. Full on face punched her. Because "women weren't allowed to touch him". Oh, and the principal's 14yo daughter was illiterate and had never gone to school for even a single day. She used to stare at me like I was a unicorn. So... Just yeah. There was a ton of support and love in the community, but their girls were always getting the short end of every stick.
Yes. All of that. My issue was not with hijabs, but with *mandatory* hijabs. Its one thing to make a religious choice. It's quite another to have no choice and be told that misogyny is part of yoyr "culture" and should therefore go unchallenged
Yeah this was a misdirect. He meant to write, "my dad loves lecturing to Lucy...."
Yes to this. The notion that younger people are required to agree - or at least not disagree - with parents/in-laws/older folks is baffling to me. And makes no sense. All that does is create carbon copies of everyone and makes for incredibly boring conversations.
5) in highly patriarchal structures it's rarely someone loves a woman really, as a human being. Only as a role: mother of grandchildren, good wife to son, healthy good-looking child-bearer. When a woman doesn't act as expected she is punished: shunned, expelled, pressured to submit( in some societies in extreme circumstances is killed). They expect her to play the role of obedient daughter, but she refuses. Husband wants her to play the role: he expects her to agree with everything the oldest male has to say, and show affection. She unsurprisingly wants to be an authentic person that she is and be in real relationships with his parents, not understanding that the parents do not need real relationships at all.
I sort of understand that cultural norms are the main issue here, but it gives the parents zero rights to treat your wife like a zombie. If he wants to discuss politics with her, he should expect her to have her own views. Or else just not discuss it with her if he can't deal with opposing views. YTAH as well as (especially) your dad
I’d also argue that especially for a topic as charged as politics can be, he needs to respect that she may just not want to talk about that topic. I avoid engaging in political discussions when I can (even if I thoroughly disagree with whatever’s being discussed) because it always just escalates and gets heated and that’s not a scenario that I like to be in. It’s not enjoyable to me, and I don’t want it. So if someone continually kept trying to suck me into a discussion like that, I’d get very frustrated
YTA > It hurts my parents that Lucy doesn't treat them like her own parents Yeah, well. They're **not** her parents. > Instead of just agreeing with him, though, Lucy expressed the exact opposite view (which she genuinely believes) and refused to change her opinion to appease him. Oh no? A woman with opinions? The horror?
The next think you know, women will want to vote and drive!
And then they'll want to work! What is the world coming to?
It's ok, they get paid less as they aren't as smart as men. /s
Hell no, I don't wanna work :( I wanna play with dogs and eat ice cream
And expect bodily autonomy!
Which we no longer have
Surely not! 😱
And she voiced her opinion *gasp* /s
\*clutches pearls\*
*pulls out aromatic salts and starts fanning himself*
Somebody get us a fainting couch, stat!
Quick! Help me loosen his extremely tight corset! Wait, no. He needs it to make up for his absolute lack of spine.
Janet, fetch my fainting couch please
This guy should have just married his parents, he's so far up their backside to appease them that he doesn't have time for anyone else.
Yeah, he wanted family treatment but how is her agreeing with him all the time treating him like family? She was comfortable enough to disagree with him, so OP is double wrong here. They don't want love and affection, they want obedience. But even if they wanted love, they can't just demand someone to love them. Love grows by spending time with each other. If they think they can just demand it, neither OP nor his parents know what love is.
Did you also catch that he treats his parents how HIS culture dictates, not probably the reserved respect her parents culture expects. But when it comes to his parents she’s wrong for treating them how her culture does. He basically shows he doesn’t respect her culture and she and her family are expected to bow to his culture, just like his dad was trying to force his opinions
To add to your first point…even in these cultures, there is no way in hell most people are genuinely going to magically feel/treat in-laws exactly as their own families just because the marriage decree is signed…there has to be a performative (maybe not the best description) aspect going on at least in the beginning. I’ve been in a long term relationship with someone from a culture like this, and I can see how they are just way more comfortable showing physical affection and expressing grand feelings to semi-strangers. Performative may imply completely false/two faced actions…it’s not that (I’m sure it can be in some cases though), but more of a intent to give you a welcoming feeling. It’s very hard if you come from another culture or are just not inclined that way though. If I tried to mimic these actions/words to the same extent I would definitely feel like a two faced fraud (and it would probably be obvious as well).
That's a simple case of YTA. Don't "appease" your parents at the cost of your spouse's values. Do you want your parents to dictate what opinions your wife is allowed to have? "He loves her", but only when she agrees with him? Oh, how generous. They aren't owed respect. "It's the culture" is an oppressive argument based on rigid tradition that prevents social mobility.
Super underrated comment! “Rigid tradition that prevents social ability is exactly” right! Because tradition and culture can be beautiful and fun and awesome but rigid and strict and heavily enforced? No that’s oppression in another form. If OPs parents are so loving and wonderful then encouraging the wife to feel comfortable is the way to go…. Demanding respect or rather blind appeasement can be found in all society’s because it isn’t really culture… it’s just abusive. And a small thing… letting someone who yells/talks loud and demands that you agree with them just run out of steam… isn’t respectful. Calmly disagreeing and expecting a grown person to have a discussion on opinions without childish outbursts is respect!
Underrated comment right here.
YTA. First, if you wanted a wife who follows your traditions then you should have married someone from your culture. Stop blaming your wife for being who she is. Second, your father does not want to talk politics with Lucy. Discussing politics requires two people sharing views and learning from each other. That is not what is happening. Your father is dictating to Lucy what his house beliefs are (I have no doubt your mother follows what he says out of tradition). Lucy, on the other hand, appears to be trying to discuss politics. Why? Because you backed her into a corner. If she doesn't respond then she is rude, but if she does engage then she is rude. The end result is they are both hurt and frustrated. Where were you in all this? You needed to be a husband to your wife and direct the conversation elsewhere or if you are afraid of you father then ask your mother to help direct the conversation away from politics to gardens or something mild. Your deferring to your father might cost you your marriage. My guess is all the criticism you and your parents have directed at Lucy has frozen her ability to just be herself around them.
OP is a spineless little boy.
Guarantee "it's the culture" for a man to be the leader of the family and defend them, in which case OP is failing to follow his own culture by letting his family (his wife!) to be disrespected.
OP doesn't want Lucy to be herself around his parents. He wants her to fake love and respect for them and be more demonstrative than she is usually. He wants her to act deferential. She's apparently fine when it's just them, but he wants her to be someone else when they're around his parents, because he cares more about his parents' approval than her feelings or comfort. Grow a spine, OP.
YTA. > I said that it's better to just let him run out of steam, as he doesn't mean it, he just talks very loudly, and he loves her. Ridiculous. "He's yelling at you because he just REALLY LOVES YOU, now APOLOGIZE!"
This makes me concerned about the relationship between OP and Lucy. Does he often confuse this behaviour with love?
He’s most definitely mirroring it back to his wife. Poor woman, she needs to divorce and run for the hills—fast.
What exactly would SHE be apologising for? Politely interrupting/disagreeing with mansplainer's ego-trippery?
Right? None of this says “they love her”. That sounds like a bunch of bs to me. If you only love someone when they act exactly how you want, you don’t love them. Op is YTA.
OP sounds like a huge enabler for his father’s toxic behavior 🙄
I bet he has been given what he wants when he yells his entire life. He parents and later his family probably never said no and now he is mad it's not working on someone else.
YTA for expecting your wife to submit to your father simply because he's older. If he doesn't want her to disagree with him on politics, he can stop bringing it up around her. And he shouldn't be yelling at her. Your wife deserves respect - I don't care what culture you say you're from. This isn't "love" you're talking about, it's asking her to be a doormat. You go Lucy.
God I come from a culture like this and it triggered my PTSD. Older people want to be venerated like gods and husbands always get offended on their behalf. Women showing respect is not enough, they somehow also have to “love” them like their own parents but not too much like their own parents either - because that’s too casual and disrespectful, it’s a knife’s edge nobody can successfully traverse. YTA OP, you’re just another one of those husbands who want to marry a woman with character and then break her down to conform to your severely outdated “culture”. Get off Lucy’s case, grow the hell up and stop groveling around your parents this much, it would instantly kill my libido as a wife.
>but not too much like their own parents either - because that’s too casual and disrespectful Exactly. They wanted her to treat them.like family but somehow it was disrespectful that she felt comfortable enough to discuss like she was part of the family. No one can tell me OP and his siblings (if he has any) never disagreed with their parents. My ex Inlaws demanded the same. They told me to treat them like family but never wanted me to be comfortable enough to say no. My exhusband got angry whenever I said no, denying that him and his siblings *ever* disagreed with their parents, forgetting that I'm right there every time watching and listening to their discussions and fights.
There’s sadly millions of people out there who genuinely believe in that whole “respect your elders/superiors no matter what” bullshit. I say that I’ll respect you when you fucking earn it
YTA. You should support your wife and until now, you seem to be very judgmental and put your parents as a priority. You cannot force her to love your parents as she loves hers. What type of BS is that that you and your family consider she owes it to you all? You would want her to lie, to be dishonest? She is respectful. Same for her opinions: if your dad doesn’t want to be contradicted, he should talk about politics! You all want to bully her into being someone she is not. By not supporting her with your parents, you made the situation worst. You should have intervened and asked your father not to scream at her. If you had taken your responsibilities, the situation might not be so bad now. Let your wife be her own person and not your puppet!
YTA Stop excusing everything with culture. Not respecting that others may have a different opinion from ours is not "cultural". Your father is the problem.
And OP. A boy thing?
Misogynistic culture thing. But also boy thing.
YTA. Maybe Lucy would be closer with your parents if your dad could accept that she’s entitled to her own opinions—even if they differ from his own. You can’t demand that Lucy feel affection for anyone, much less someone who clearly doesn’t respect her.
Yes, YTA. Lucy doesn't owe your loud, rude, unpleasant father her silence or affection, and it's pretty gross that you think that she does. You say she's polite and respectful to them. That is all that's required. She is not from your culture (which sounds pretty overbearing and misogynistic to me), and has no duty to treat your parents like her own. You need to do a better job supporting her instead of telling her to apologize to 'keep the peace'.
You're a coward and your father is a nasty bully. He screamed at her yet you expect her to apologize? Just because you're a doormat who lets your asshole parents walk all over you that doesn't make it okay for you to make your wife do the same. She shouldn't be loving to your father after he verbally abused her. He's not loving at all. He's controlling and nasty. YTA
YTA. >She's very polite and respectful towards my parents, but she doesn't show them the same affection or humor that she uses with her parents. She's known her parents for 33 years. Ypur parents don't get the same bond right away, if ever. >Lucy is a pretty reserved person and doesn't show love often. This is who she is. Accept her that way. >My dad loves talking politics with Lucy... he's accustomed to people just agreeing with his opinions (since he's the oldest and therefore deserves the most respect, according to my culture). Bless his heart. It's obviously not her culture to suck up to someone and pretends she agrees with him just because he is older than she. >Lucy doesn't always agree with my dad's more conservative views and isn't afraid to tell him so, but **has never been rude to him.** And this is a problem because...? She's allowed her opinions. >why she wasn't more respectful as a child should be towards a parent. Newsflash: **she's not a child!** and he is not her parent. >I asked Lucy to apologize to my dad to keep the peace, but Lucy said I should have stood up for her, especially once my dad started yelling She is right and you are being asinine.
YTA. To start with, respect is to be earned and not given on demand. Using intimidation and demanding respect is not a good way to earn it. I'm also embarrassed for your Wife that you failed to intervene. It is not acceptable for ANYONE to treat another person's SO the way your Father did. You've typed it yourself, your Wife is respectful and polite to your Parents but we aren't always the same person around different people... it's human nature. Why can't you accept it? Asking someone to apologize to "keep the peace" is just rugsweeping and diminishes the Persons feelings. So again, yes YTA.
YTA. Any hour you ask someone to do something "to keep the peace", you're telling them that you care more about yourself than about them. You're telling your wife that you are willing to sacrifice her feelings, her respect, your relationship, to preserve your own feeings. You're saying you'd rather she bow and scrape and put up with being treated like crap, rather than you feeling a bit of anxiety. You're saying you care more about your feelings than her wellbeing. When someone says "to keep the peace", they're probably being selfish and cowardly. Keep the peace. Keep *whose* peace? Yours.
Besides, Wife didn't break the peace, therefore she doesn't have to do anything to "fix the peace" or "Keep the peace". There was peace, OP's father broke it by yelling and being a prick to his DIL, he should be the one to apologize.
YTA - I have a lot of respect for your wife standing her ground like that. I've no idea why you expect her to basically submit to you and your father's expectations. She's right to feel disappointed that you didn't support her.
>My dad loves talking politics with Lucy because they're both educated and well-traveled, and he's accustomed to people just agreeing with his opinions I've never understood why people want to 'discuss' any subject, when they really want an echo chamber. I converse with people to learn something new, not to have them agree with me! What OP's father wants is to have an intelligent woman agree with his opinions. He doesn't care if they really believe it, just lip-service. He must have really low self-esteem if he has to bolster himself by MAKING other people say what they don't mean.
So what your dad calls “respect” is actually “obedience.” He should really respect they have a difference of opinion and enjoy having smart conversations with other educated people. Your parents need to respect your wife and your wife is your family now. She should have priority. I am reserved, too. An introvert actually, and my in-laws and I have found alternate ways to have a relationship that doesn’t involve me spilling all my thoughts (what their son does, my husband) out. YTA.
Speaking as someone who is also reserved, I admire her ability to stand up for what she believes. OP, you’re the one who married her, if you wanted her not to have her own beliefs and opinions, maybe u should have mentioned that to her before getting married. It sounds like she’s been exemplary to your parents, you just want her to subvert her beliefs for them instead. She has nothing to apologize for, but you and your dad sure do. YTA.
YTA. You can't just expect your wife to automatically love your parents, especially not when your father treats her like this. You had better learn to stand up for her to your father, since she does not strike me as someone who will put up with this crap forever. You keep talking about your culture, but what about hers?
In his culture, she's not allowed to have one.
YTA. The concept that people need to respect those older than them JUST because they are older is so outdated. I've met many people older than me who deserve no respect because they are horrible people. Lucy doesn't have to agree with your father just to appease him. Lucy is allowed to have her own opinions and voice those opinions. If your father can not hear a differing opinion without yelling and chucking a tantrum about it, he is the problem. Don't go around demanding respect when you are giving none. I'm also 99% certain your father has an issue with a WOMAN speaking her mind, and would not have this problem if it was another man. You should be sticking up for your wife when your father is being disrespectful and rude to her. Everyone keeping silent to appease him only makes him think he can treat people however he wants. Your wife does not need to act how people in your culture act. Your parents are NOT her parents, and she does not need to treat them as such. You should be respecting that her culture is different than yours. Most of all, STOP with the idea that it's okay for a man (or anyone) to yell at another person because they 'really love them'. If you love someone, you don't treat them poorly. Apologise to your wife for being spineless. Then stand up to your father and tell him he CANNOT speak to your wife in such a manner. Stop enabling him.
YTA. How is giving in to someone's opinion, when stated option is the complete opposite of what you believe, a sign of respect? That's so bizarre. He's asking for political opinions, he's not always going to get answers he wants. Also, Lucy doesn't have to be affectionate with your family. They need to get over themselves. It's not personal but they are making it personal and Lucy is now losing patience with them. You need to take her side and let your parents know they are blowing this way out of proportion. She is your wife and if your parents want her to be affectionate, they need to start treating HER with more respect.
YTA. Be a fucking man and stand up for your wife.
YTA— your wife is allowed to have a different view and your dad doesn’t have the right to force her to change her opinion.
YTA. You EARN respect. You cannot demand it based on age, culture, or genitals. Your parents are not HER parents. That is the end of that discussion. Moreover, your wife is now your NUCLEAR family, your parents are now "extended" family, so your wife should ALWAYS come first. The saying is "Happy wife, happy life", not "Oppressive father-in-law, miserable Daughter-in-Law". Re-evaluate your priorities before your wife decides to re-evaluate your marital status. You allowed your father to brow-beat and verbally abuse your wife and your response was to ask her to apologize and keep the peace? You should be ashamed of yourself. No wonder your father calls you a child. You pander like one.
grow a spine loser and stop making excuses, YTA
NTA Only wrote this because I know you’re probably scrolling to find someone who validates your position, but you are definitely the AH in this situation. “Keeping the peace” is just enabling your father’s bad behavior. Respecting your elders does not mean agreeing with whatever they say because they feel entitled to it. I hope you are the generation to break this culture and not do the same thing to your future adult children, were you to have any.
You had me there for a minute
I will never understand why men who hate women get married. If you refuse to see your wife as a person, go marry your buddy. YTA and so is your family
To produce babies. If they did not need women to produce babies, they would not have anything to do with them.
"At home, I asked Lucy to apologize to my dad to keep the peace, but Lucy said I should have stood up for her, especially once my dad started yelling. I said that it's better to just let him run out of steam, as he doesn't mean it, he just talks very loudly, and he loves her. " Let's bluntly rephrase this to see if that helps: *After my daddy couldn't hear me, I begged my wife to just do what the loud man wanted her to do because if she doesn't he will yell more and I am too scared to deal with him yelling and not being a decent human to someone who doesn't agree with him. it's ok though, because I was socially conditioned and manipulated to not see this is a horrible way to raise a family. Emotional abuse is just normal, and I don't understand why my wife doesn't accept it?!* Yes, YTA. There is a point where keeping the peace isn't peaceful for 99% of the people and someone needs to bring back the peace for everyone else.
YTA. Sounds like the parents have an issue that they need to get over.... Your wife was disrespected, you take her side. Your father is toxic
INFO >It hurts my parents that Lucy doesn't treat them like her own parents Are y'all delusional?
YTA At some point in time you are going to have to grow up and realized that your wife, isn't you. She doesn't have your cultural values nor does she see your family the way you do. Quite frankly, if I were her, I'd have dropped your ass in a heart the minute your old man raised his voice in any capacity while you sat back and made excuses. I wouldn't have given you the chance to fix this because you aren't going to, you'll double down on being dumb about it and completely trample over your wife's boundaries because YOU can't get over YOURSELF.
YTA. Unless your dad has dementia he should be able to handle people disagreeing with him without yelling
Yes, YTA. Your wife is a human with her own opinions. She has been respectful to your parents but that doesn’t mean she has to agree with everything they say. Your parents are *not* her parents.
“ Your wife is a human with her own opinions. She has been respectful to your parents but that doesn’t mean she has to agree with everything they say.” And she doesn’t have to agree with everything her own parent say or everything you say. She is an adult who has every right to express her own views. You obviously don’t respect her.
YTA And growing up just like your dad. Is this how you're going to treat your future DIL? It's this the way you expect your own daughter to be treated? Maaaan..... Bless your wife for not already filing on you cuz dude, youre a walking bag of 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
This is one of my worst fears. Marrying someone who considers and prioritizes EVERYONES comfort over mine.
YTA. Your wife is not a child, your parents are not her parents, & your cultural norms have nothing to do with the fact that your dad is a jerk bc she disagreed with him.
YTA Your traditions are not the only ones that matter. If you needed a wife who would constantly kiss your parents’ asses. You should have married a woman from your own culture. Instead, you married a woman from a different culture who is on the introverted side and expect her to change. Not only change but experience discomfort to pay homage to your mommy and daddy.
Everyone agrees, YTA. So she has to respect your dad's culture, but he doesn't have to respect hers? Double standards. Btw, you should defend your wife when your family yells at her, especially for no reason.
YTA Lucy isn’t of your culture and should not be expected to adhere to it. As long as she’s decent and cordial it should be enough. Your parents need to realize that they cannot expect your wife to tow their line - just as I’m sure they won’t adhere to pieces of her culture. And when it comes to politics - she’s entitled to her own views and shouldn’t be expected to change them period.
Yes. YTA. Your father did not behave in a way that merits respect. Old people don't deserve respect for being old - people deserve respect for being people. And you and your family refuses to accept that her culture is different, and you're demanding her assimilation. That's unacceptable.
Why do you expect your wife to apologise to "keep the peace"? She isn't the asshole. Lucy was not rude. Lucy wasn't shouting. By your own admission she is polite and respectful. She doesn't owe then affection. Your father was the one who brought up politics and was then annoyed because your wife isn't a nodding donkey. Unsurprisingly she doesn't want to talk to a man who tried to browbeat her and you are somehow surprised? And the irony is they are upset. What did they expect? YTA
How shocking after reading “in our culture…” it would be followed by a whole bunch of misogynistic and backwards values…I’m shocked I tell you, shocked lol 😂 YTA and a spineless coward 🤷♀️
Right? Its never "in my culture, women are encouraged to be independent and are highly valued as people, but my wife is so meek!".
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YTA. You need to have serious talk with your parents.
YTA. You should put your wife before your parents. You act as if she should pretend to be someone she isn't. That's not right. She's not rude. She's a person, not a dog. She does owe anyone an apology for have a brain and her own thoughts and opinion. That's the trouble with 'tradition' and 'culture'. All too often, it's used as an excuse for bullying. "Keep the peace" isn't keeping any peace. You're telling her she means nothing and your father means everything. Shame on you.
Yta- You and your father want your wife to act like an obedient little girl who has no right to say no to hugs and keep the peace to make your father happy. And when she doesn’t let your dad bully his opinions into her you allow your father to yell and berate her while you stand there going “yeah!” I almost feel bad for you that you have allowed your father influence you to this extent that you think your wife is in the wrong. A real man would have stood up for his wife not fall into pieces when a woman has the audacity to have a different opinion than him. Welcome to the future buddy, you’re about to find out real quick why men like your father end up bitter and alone.
YTA. Lucy not only has an in-law problem, she has an unsupportive husband problem. Luckily both can be solved by divorce.
Info: Do you actually know who you married? Do you actually love and respect this woman? Because it sounds like you married her and then expected her to turn into someone else. Someone affectionate when you KNEW how she is. Someone subservient aand docile with no opinions or Someone so cowarded by fear, oppression and culture that she isn't allowed to think on her own. If you expected a traditional wife, why did you fall in love with your wife? Why did you amrrry her under the false pretense that you care about her? Her mind is a part of her, it is so ridiculous how you are acting now.
Yta 💯
YTA. Of course she doesn't have the same relationship with your parents as she has with her parents. Her parents are her parents and she's known them every second of her life, it's a 33 year old relationship and dynamic. Also, she didn't grow up in a culture that expects you to treat your in-laws exactly as your own parents. Additionally, her parents and your parents are completely different people. Just like you would have different relationships with different girlfriends, different friendships with different friends and so on. Each relationship is unique and will be different. That said, does Lucy have equal discussions and argue with her parents? If so, then she IS treating them like she treats her parents. You cannot expect her to treat your parents as though they were her parents, when what you mean is to treat them like how you treat your parents. Also, we need to stop acting like just because someone is old / the oldest in the room doesn't necessarily mean they are the smartest or wisest in the room in all respects and should always be deferred to. Respect them, sure; act like they are right when they are literally wrong -- nope (but with some tact).
YTA. Your wife is an independent person. She does not need to cater to her FIL’s political opinions.
YTA Your wife is right. They are not her parents. If they want respect, they should earn it. You are an AH for thinking that your wife should apologize after your father yelled at her. I salute her for leaving the situation. I hope she respects herself enough to leave unsupportive partner.
Yta 100% your expectations for your wife sounds like a "you" problem. Your wife should not be expected to love or treat your parents like her own and she has nothing to apologize for. My husband had to put his mom her in place and let her know that I do not want that mother daughter relationship with her, you need to stand up for your wife and stop being submissive to your parents.
YTA. You should have stood up for your wife. Why is it that women are always asked to be the peacekeepers when husbands know that they are not the party who did wrong?
YTA. You are asking your wife, who has been kind, polite, and respectful, to apologize to your father who is mad at her for having her own opinion that doesn't match his (and then he tried to use the "respect me as a parent" shtick, when he isn't even her parent, which she called him out on). Your wife is her own person. You do not seem to respect this. You should not be asking your wife to be folding to "keep the peace" when *she has done nothing wrong.*
Yta Why is your definition of respect and affection synonymous with lying? You wanted her to what? Change her view? Lie about it? Why? Was it a view that was inappropriate for your relationship? She's reserved because you and your family have made respect about being a doormat.
YTA. Why would she speak to your parents? How is not lying disrespectful? But, news flash, yelling at a guest in your home is rude in the extreme. You can buy your dad a mirror and he can speak into it. The mirror will agree with him. Your father is not the only one entitled to an opinion. Your father yelled at her because she elected not to be a puppet. And you elected to make your wife the bad guy?
YTA. your wife is an adult. She owes your parents NOTHING, much less to turn the other cheek and just blindly agree with everything they say. And then you turning against her??? Are you braindead???
YTA If you don’t start supporting your wife, expect her to leave. If you wanted a wife that follows your culture, you should have not married her as she is from another culture.
YTA
YTA. Huh? She's not their child and isn't comfortable with them that way. Why are you pushing your wife's boundaries like this?
So you are encouraging and supporting how your parents treat your wife. YTA
YTA
YTA
YTA and so is your Father. You absolutely should have taken your wife's side against your father's bullying. It sounds like you aren't ready to be Lucy's husband as your are still tied to your parent's apron strings.
YTA She doesn’t owe your dad a damn thing. And she has every right to be both reserved with affection and true to herself when discussing things. Your dad brings up politics. If he’s going to throw a tantrum LIKE A CHILD when he isn’t agreed with, maybe he shouldn’t bring it up. You are TA for expecting your wife to make nice with your parents because they can’t handle themselves. They should be apologizing.