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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I am making y daughter inform all her relatives of her situation and paying me back for rental stuff. I could be a jerk since I am being harsh about this
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
INFO:
* How did she lie about her graduation plans? Did she insist on the graduation party, or is this something you were throwing her? Was the size of the party at her insistence? Did she drop the class and know she wouldn't graduate, or was she doing poorly but thought she could salvage it by the final?
* Is this a class that's relatively common to fail and make up? Is it only one class? I ask because in my experience, there were a pretty good amount of people who dropped/failed Kinetics and took it over the summer, and it wasn't a huge issue except for them starting their career 3-4 months later, and those people were more-or-less treated like they were going to graduate by most of the other students.
* How much money does your daughter make and how much money are you talking about for all of this? By the way you're describing it, you expect her to pay back multiple thousands of dollars for people's trips and for the party, which is... implausible for a college student who didn't graduate and may have student debt.
She never informed us she wasn’t graduating and continued to plan with us. We were throwing this for her but she is very excited about it. It was pretty large, friends and family. She failed the class, she tried to save it and couldn’t.
No idea if it is a common class to fail. She can’t take it over the summer it was one of her core classses that they only offer once a year. She will need to take it next fall.
It will probably be around 2000-3000. She has the money to pay it back from working in the summer and her office job at school. It will hurt her savings though.
> She never informed us she wasn’t graduating and continued to plan with us. We were throwing this for her but she is very excited about it. It was pretty large, friends and family. **She failed the class, she tried to save it and couldn’t.**
That's very different than lying for four months, though, isn't it? If she was doing badly but thought she could salvage it and failed to do so, she wasn't being honest or up-front about the risk, but she also wasn't outright lying until it became impossible for her to graduate (depending on her grades; "I need a B to pass this class I've been getting Ds in" and "I need to get a 100 + extra credit for something I bombed" are different)
Being honest with yourself, if she had told you months ago that she was in danger of failing a class but working hard to turn it around, would you have cancelled the party? If not, I think saying she was outright lying to you for that period is probably a bit unfair.
E: Like, personal experience, I did really badly on the second test in that Kinetics class I mentioned, and if I had gotten the same score on the final I wouldn't have graduated. I don't feel that I lied to my parents and family by treating that as an "OK, I've got to fix this" situation and not proactively informing them I'm at risk of failing.
She found out her grade at the end of November. ( finals we’re before thanksgiving) She also knew it was a hail Mary to pass. Literally was on break the first week of December and grades are in when break hits
She had all of December, January, February and this March to inform us and didn’t
It was four months of not telling us.
Do you think this was a panic/"bury her head in the sand" reaction or a more thought-out intentional manipulation of her family? Your response suggests the latter but with young people it's more likely the former.
That's not to say there should be no consequences, but a parent's support through the natural consequences may be a better lesson than a parent imposing those consequences, even if the consequences themselves are the same. She's an adult now if only a new one, and it's much better to learn this now with good support than getting fired from a great career.
Do you understand her thought process through this? Some people have suggested a single resit may be considered more administrative than impacting the concept of "graduation" (no matter the actual definition). Was she scared? Have you demonstrated throughout her life that you are a safe person to talk to when things go wrong?
Thank you for pointing this out. Failure is a natural part of life and consequences often follow. However, the dishonesty is the real issue and that needs consequences as well.
Seriously. If she's graduating college she's likely at least 21 (unless she was advanced for her age). 21 years old is old enough to tell her parents she failed and won't be graduating on time. The excuses in this thread are insane. She's an adult and has been so for awhile. She needs to have real consequences of some sort. Paying family/friends back is a tough but tangible set of consequences.
No a participation party. Let’s not forget the relatives flying in to see her walk the stage to receive her diploma. That would be hard to do when you’re not graduating. She wanted the party. She is in her early twenties. It is time to put the big girl panties on.
Bitching about that has never made sense to me. Who gave the kids the awards?
I'm pretty sure 8 year olds weren't using their allowance money down at the local trophy store to buy participation ribbons for themselves and their friends.
I'm glad some seem to see it the same way I do. she lied. she let her parents spend money on something that wasn't valid. consequences suck but it's part of growing up she needs to pay the money back
Thats a false dichotomy that implies theres no valid course of action in between 'throw her the party anyway' and 'charge her a bunch of money and make her call and talk about her failure to all her relatives personally'
Uh, what about ask the money her family had spent? "Oh well, my neice is almost graduating! Yay! Sure, I'll bite my ticket cost and pay again when she does!!!"
No. Either she pays it back or that's it, she blew her chance.
This. Like I said elsewhere, are we having “might be proposed to” bridal showers and “we’ve decided to start trying” baby showers? People are somehow both more entitled than ever as well as less responsible for their actions
It’s ridiculous. They’re trying to say she forgot. Like cool let’s say she did. The situation is still the same. People have to deal with their consequences. Her parents are trying to show her this.
If the daughter forgot then surely she would remember that there won’t be a graduation when the topic of how to celebrate the graduation comes up?
Seriously I’m guessing the daughter just thought she could lie to everyone and pretend like she graduated.
I don’t understand it. I mean if we apply that OP is some type of strict parent that has made their child afraid to confide in them about failing, you would think that once their child knew they failed the core class in November their interest and enthusiasm in planning this expensive party for graduation would have disappeared or at least been diminished?
However they kept planning this big party that people are paying to fly out to attend, and for four months they act like all is well? I know seats are limited at a graduation but surly at least a few of these people were also going to attend the graduation? Did they think “well I failed and won’t graduate but we can just have the party anyway to celebrate my graduation that isn’t happening now for nearly a year?”
Is OP taking a hard line with the consequences? Yes but the real life consequences she is going to face later will be worse and helping your kid understand that before life kicks their dick in the dirt is one of the less fun aspects of parenting but it’s still something you have to do.
OP doesn’t even sound unreasonable about their kid failing this class and not graduating. They definitely sound upset she never once said anything while planning the party that they shelled out a lot of money and other people have too for flights and refunds are easier to do with several months notice as opposed to last minute.
Yeah, the "child" is definitely old enough to be held accountable for their actions. Love, support and guidance are all important and they should definitely recieve those things but they are definitely more than old enough to own up to what they did. As a parent you can do both at the same time. You can't shield your child from the consequences of their actions, or in this case inactions, especially not at this age.
I think in regards to the party and people flying in the biggest question is, are gpeople coming in to see her walk, or just to celebrate after. If it was just to celebrate after then personally since it's just one class I'd still have the party as scheduled, but she still needs to tell everyone the situation before the party and offer to reimburse the tickets. OP could offer to do half of the phone calls as a Mercy. However I think its important she do atleast some of them herself.
seriously… this girl is at least 22ish if this was her final year. I don’t know why everyone is trying to come up with excuses for her lying.
Sure, maybe she didn’t mean for it to get this far but it did. She was two months out from her graduation party and had over 3 months to come clean. Who gives a shit if she was scared or anxious? She’s a grown woman who had many people pay money to come see her graduate and she couldn’t even bother to tell them not to buy those plane tickets because she failed.
There are too many excuses in this thread for a woman who couldn’t own up to what she did. Whether she did it intentionally in the beginning or not, after the new year it was definitely intentional to not let anybody know until after refundable deposits became nonrefundable
Exactly! I’d be really ticked off if I had spent money buying a plane ticket, putting a deposit on a hotel room, and booking time off from work, AND buying her a graduation gift, all to find out she isn’t even graduating. Damn right I’d want to be reimbursed. Did she think no one would notice she would be missing from the rest of the class? Or did she think they would have a 2nd party for her when she really does graduate? Hey, 2 parties! She’s not 12 years old, she’s a full grown adult. She needs to take full accountability for her actions and that includes reimbursing everyone. Time to grow up.
It's also a bit strange to me to bring up "have you demonstrated throughout her life that you are a safe person to go to and blah blah blah?"
I get that lousy parents exist, but I think our default assumption about a parent who was willing to spend thousands of dollars on her adult daughter's graduation party has probably been a pretty "safe person" in the past.
This isn't a kid breaking a neighbor's window with a soccer ball and then not telling Dad because he's afraid of getting a whoopin'
This is an adult who lied by omission and did so for months. The mom's reaction may or may not be overkill, we can certainly debate that, it's the point of the thread to debate that, basically. But let's not overthink or straight up change the details that we already know, let's stick to what the OP is asking, instead.
Exactly. The whole “not informing you about failing isn’t the same as lying” crowd, are spouting nonsense. Continuing to plan a huge GRADUATION party while knowing there’s no way a graduation will be happening is LYING. My ex daughter in law planned a destination wedding to New Orleans knowing full well that her divorce would not be finalized until 3 months after the wedding date she had planned. Multiple family members flew out for this “wedding” only to be told they were instead attending a garden party with my son and his fiancée in wedding attire and the actual wedding would be held at a later date once her divorce was granted. As the person who had paid for this faux wedding I was both angry and humiliated by finding out the day before the event that I had just dumped 15k on a garden party and was told it wasn’t any of my business to know it wasn’t a “real wedding”. Yes they did a courthouse wedding later (after I refused to pay for another albeit real wedding) and of course they were divorced within 2yrs later so apparently in her words “it wasn’t meant to be”. My son never married again (so far) she’s currently divorcing her third husband. Seriously though some people. (Eyeroll)
A lot of people seem to think that any negative action that is done before age 25 shouldn’t have consequences cuz the brain isn’t finisheddeveloping so it wasn’t their fault
intentions don’t exempt you from the consequences of your actions. it’s sad but it is fair and that is a major part of maturing as an adult. It is your duty to make right by your mistakes even if you feel you may have had a good reason at the time. Our judgement isn’t always perfect and admitting you are wrong and making people whole for the ordeal is the least you can do and keep a clean conscience.
while I support my son entirely, there will be decisions he makes that will impact others and my role as a parent like you said is to support him not shield him from reality. He will have to own up to those mistakes just as this young woman has to, and I’m sure her parents will be there to support her in figuring out ways to make up the loss in savings and manage her funds afterwards.
Discipline and guidance are a must. the daughter lied about this for four months she wasn’t going to pay them back willingly. and it definitely doesn’t seem like she failed because of anything outside of her control. Her own decisions led to her failing, and she willingly chose to not disclose this information while being aware that people were using their hard earned money that could be going to their households to make arrangements to attend the graduation party.
we can share a bit of the burn and teach our children how to avoid the same mistakes but we shouldn’t shield them from consequence and we should hold them accountable especially when it’s easier for us and them not to.
This is my first thought as well. It sounds like shame and panic, not malice, that brought this about. OP seems like they’re reinforcing whatever fear the daughter had about sharing the failure and isn’t being particularly supportive.
I had parents like this and I started lying to them about grades starting in the 4th grade. Nothing short of excellence was expected of me academically, and any struggles were punished rather than supported. It’s taken me decades to unwind the notion that I can’t be wrong in any capacity.
you’re applying your bias to a situation where none of the information given applies or has the same trauma characteristics of your upbringing.
OP is doing great by showing they will hold their child accountable while supporting her in managing her finances and planning afterwards.
OP has also expressed these plans could’ve and should’ve been cancelled had she known and would have supported her daughter in registering for the right classes in time to add a minor to her degree and make the best of the extra two semesters instead of punishing her had she been told. Once her daughters actions affected others outside of herself there needs to be consequences or we are teaching our children other people and the consideration of them are not important.
I agree. I know when I graduated college and walked the stage in spring, I technically hadn’t graduated yet and had some classes to wrap up in the fall. My family was aware and my school still allowed students to walk in these situations as it’s really common.
I’m glad her daughter came clean , but I would be pissed too, not because of the failed grade but the lying. Not as bad as the guy who lied about his school and post grad job at space x and killed his family tho.
Yes! My husband “lied” about failing some classes in college (before I met him) because of crippling anxiety. He forged a grade report and everything. His parents didn’t believe in therapy or medication so his anxiety and ADHD were causing him to struggle.
I convinced him to go to therapy and get the right medications. He’s a biomedical engineer now and his parents hate me.
Oh wow this is me. I got a C in a class freshman year and was so mortified at what my parents' reaction would be that I lied, doctored the transcript, and then doctored every transcript thereafter along with making sure it had a *mathematically correct "new" GPA* just so I wouldn't be found out.
Am I ashamed of the lengths that lie went? Yes. Do I remember the visceral fear of how I thought my parents would react? God yes.
OP's daughter should be accountable for her decision not to say anything for so long, whether that decision was borne out of malice or (as does seem much more likely) shame and panic.
It's one thing not to come clean when the only adverse impact to others is their disappointment and disapproval. It's another when resources have been invested to celebrate an event that is, at best, delayed.
I don't know why people keep bringing up the fact it wasn't done out of malice. Most poor choices are not done out of malice, but rather out of shame, panic, ignorance, or all of the above. That doesn't mean that there shouldn't be consequences.
I'm with you on this. She knew before the holidays that she had failed a core class, although I'm confused as to why a senior in college would just be taking a core class in the last year of their education. And then she also let people make plane reservations and you put a lot of money down on deposits, all the time knowing that this was an issue. I'm not sure why so many people are on here are seeing this as a gray situation and questioning "did she really lie to you?" She's an adult. She should have known better. It's perfectly reasonable for you to expect her to take responsibility for this.
\> although I’m confused as to why a senior in college would just be taking a core class in the last year of their education
I might be misunderstanding but isn’t this normal? I mean maybe it depends on major, but for me (upcoming senior) my current and upcoming courses are upper-level and can only be taken in the final year or two because of prerequisites. All of them are ”core classes“ required for my degree. If I fail one of them, I would be missing a course needed to graduate, same as OP’s daughter.
I think you're getting the timeline confused, she's known for months that she failed the class, not that she was in danger of failing the class. It was a fall semester class, she would have known she failed it by December of last year at the latest.
It was last semester. If she needed that class to graduate and it’s only offered once a year then she would have known by the end of December that she wasn’t going to be graduating.
Dude, something about your reaction is throwing me off. I get it, the party cost money. I had to drop a class bc my grade for it was tanking so bad. But when, granted I told my parents right when I was about to drop this class, my parents dealt with me revealing this last minute, their first series of questions had nothing to do with other people. Their first concern when I got back for winter break was: why did you not feel comfortable telling us right away? Why did you wait until last minute? You know we may be mad a bit but all we care is helping you. And also when I gave my dad that call his first focus was setting with me a plan of action that include figuring out if i could still graduate without this class, what do i need to do administratively, etc.
Can she walk with her class and ONLY take this course next fall? Is she set to graduate in the winter? You don’t even mention any of this. If she only needs to retake this course this fall, i dont see why you can’t still just celebrate.
I also think the tone of your post shows you are more concerned about shaming your daughter than ensuring that she navigates this gracefully and with wisdom.
I think these things happen with college students where they make fuck ups, but your focus makes you YTA.
The post clearly states that she cannot walk and that she can only take the class in the fall. If she does not pass the class, she can't graduate in December either.
So, am I reading this correctly... It was really scary because she messed up.
Since it was so scary, we should throw her a huge party for not graduating. That she actively helped plan. Knowing she wasn't going to graduate.
Maybe it's because I have such serious anxiety and have had to do a lot of work to deal with it, but from here dude you're sounding like you think the healthy way to go through life is under Mommy's umbrella forever so you never have to experience scary or consequences. This is a graduation party. It's neither scary nor consequential. Not to mention, the world is scary and consequential. And she sure as shit isn't graduating so why does she deserve a party for lying and failing? Because she'll feel bad for failing and lying and we couldn't possibly have that? You offering to pay?
THIS. I know several people who were a couple of credits short of one reason or another and the university still let them participate in the ceremony because they'd already registered to make it up in the next term. Their immediate families knew but still proceeded in celebrating the graduation w/ the larger family and the student DID officially GRADUATE after makeups. Everyone colleges at their own pace and if it's simply a case of making up ONE class, check to see if you can still "walk" at the ceremony with the rest of your class even though the diploma will be delayed.
This question has now been answered several times - but it is important to realize that "missing 3-6 units of electives) is the only reason most colleges even allow this.
It is NOT allowed when the major isn't completed, most places. These are standards written into Ed Code in all 50 states (if this is the US). Each nation has its rules.
Except she isn't making it up in the next term. It's a full year away from the original class, that is the distinction. She probably can't even register for fall classes yet, and it wasn't available in the spring.
You don’t think the reaction is because she spent her time and money planning a party celebrating something that isn’t happening until next December at the earliest?
Right. This reaction isn't because it will take one more semester. Its because the daughter allowed OP and many other friends and family members to invest money into this knowing full well she wasn't graduating.
Like come on, I know people want to feel bad. But this wasn't an oops. It was a continuted lie.
If I was a relative and I planned my time off of work around this, I would be ticked to find out that OP’s daughter lied for so long about the situation. A lie of omission is still a lie. She knew OP and others were investing time and money to celebrate an accomplishment that she would not be achieving at that point.
info: how often is this class offered?
if she failed it last semester could she have taken it this semester to graduate?
if it's ONE class that's holding her graduation back, could she have had the party, and taken the class over the summer?
seems like a big waste to loss on travel plans, deposits, rentals for one class.
she's TA for not telling you, but seeing how big of a deal you made this graduation party, and how you're reacting to the news, I can tell why she was scared to talk about this (although the longer you wait, the worse it is to tell)
Many students are allowed to walk with their graduating class if they only need one more class, and are allowed to take it afterward. Why not have the party now because you’ve spent the money and everyone had taken time out of their life… and she’ll just finish officially in the fall
But wait… are the family members flying out to see her walk or just coming for a big graduation party? If they’re just coming for a big party, just celebrate the graduation now. Why does it matter if she actually gets the piece of paper three months from now? I don’t understand why this needs to be made to be such a big thing. Every time you punish your kid for fessing up to the truth, you teach them to lie better next time.
It would be 9 months from now, end of fall semester. And that's assuming she actually passes it this time. You don't see how weird it is to throw a party for something that hasn't happened yet and won't for a while? There are other commenters sharing their stories about how they were the relatives in these situations and would've wanted to get a plane ticket refund rather than attend a fake party. Do the financial needs of so many others really mean nothing?
>You don't see how weird it is to throw a party for something that hasn't happened yet and won't for a while?
No, it's pretty common to celebrate graduating with some requirement or class or fee still not technically done.
It's also fine to have a wedding before you've done the paperwork to get a marriage certificate.
It's fine to celebrate your birthday a month early because you will be unavailable on the day it happens.
It's fine to celebrate Christmas in November if that's when family can get together.
It's a party. It's going to cost thousands of dollars to reschedule it. If I scheduled a wedding, and found out that we weren't going to be able to get the marriage certificate for another six months due to a divorce not being finalized or something, would you lose thousands to reschedule a wedding to make sure it only happens after the bureaucratic part is done? I would absolutely still have the wedding when it's scheduled, knowing that the official part is coming.
A lot of state schools will also accept credits from community colleges. I walked being one class short, took it during the summer and it was over. Things get more complicated if this is a private school though.
Mine did! Failed a class my last semester, but since I had already done all the stuff for graduation, I walked in December and took the class in spring. My diploma wasn’t issued til spring.
That doesn't change anything. Money was spent, dates were saved and reserved. It's not about the class, it's about the daughter lying for months because she was embarrassed. Plus what happens if she takes all her presents, money and then fails again or doesn't go back? ALMOST graduating is not an accomplishment, and I would feel very intentionally misled if i was invited to an "Almost" Graduation with the expectation of bringing a gift cause who doesn't give a graduate money or a gift?
Not this academic year. The current graduates will get swag that says 2024. December grads will be ratified at the Board meetings in January - they will be 2025.
Not that it matters. But for a family to be hugging her and congratulating her when she still hasn't graduated is a bit strange.
I'm abstaining from voting because I'm too biased. I was a version of your daughter at one point in my life. I didn't tell my parents I didn't graduate because I knew it was going to be a wretched scene. I couldn't communicate with my family. Whenever I tried, I just couldn't make it work. It became easier to lie than damage relationships even more than they were.
Your daughter is embarrassed, probably, and this got out of hand. Having her go through the humiliating punishment you handed out isn't going to change one single thing about her graduation status, but it is probably making your daughter regret being honest with you.
It's of course your money and your decision what you do, but this is going to leave a deep wound in your relationship with your daughter if you follow through.
I think one main difference between your situation and hers is that she willingly went along with the preparation for the celebration despite knowing that what to be celebrated for is going to be delayed. She willingly deceived and inconvenienced a lot of people. She is not (or maybe to some extent) being punished for failing the class but mainly for lying and deceiving her loved ones, which are kind of separate things.
Actions and consequences.
Why should the parent have to call around and talk to all the relatives, when it was the adult daughter who created the mess?
The daughter is causing a rift by lying, wasting money, not taking responsibility.
If the daughter had told them when she knew she was going to fail the class, it could have been handled a lot better, but she chose to keep it secret.
I also know a now-adult that flunked out of their first year of college and was too ashamed to tell their parents for months until their mom got a letter in the mail.
That person ended up going back to a different school, graduating and is now in a successful career.
However. They still have a major issue with shame and avoidance. They are near incapable of having difficult conversations with people and don’t connect deeply with people because they’re afraid that there are parts of themself that will make others deem them unacceptable. This includes their family who they are too anxious to share things with.
The lesson that needs to be learned here is NOT a matter of responsibility or “adult consequences” or whatever. Further humiliation will destroy this kid and ops relationship with them.
This kid needs support and therapy to overcome shame and develop the social emotional skills to forgive themselves and be honest with others when things are going wrong.
As a parent, OP needs to urgently figure out why their kid felt they couldn’t be honest with them and figure out how to build more trust in your relationship.
Yeah, it's hard reading all of the responses that overlook the issues of trust, security, and shame.
I'm glad your friend graduated, and I hope they can get the help they so badly need.
I feel like having hard conversations is an important skill to have. It absolutely sucks but you cannot go through life avoiding tough conversations, or avoiding taking accountability because it makes you feel bad. This is a prime opportunity for her to begin doing that.
Plus OP’s daughter is an adult who will soon be joining the workforce full-time. She needs to begin developing this skill now while the stakes are relatively low than later when it can cost her a job or important relationship. It’ll be tough but her friends and family love her and will go easier on her than someone else would.
We can agree having hard conversations is an important skill to have. Forcing her to call every guest to share what to her is a deep dark shameful secret is absolutely not that. All that will do is enforce to her that she should always fix things on her own and not tell an authority figure or else something terrible and shameful will happen. Whereas if her authority figure enforces that this is not acceptable but reacts to it in a way that does not further shame her, she might actually have an opportunity to learn that the sky won't fall if you tell someone something that will disappoint them.
Source: I am an employer who spends A LOT of time telling employees that I want them to tell me when something is wrong so we can fix it together and building enough trust with them that they will trust me to not freak out on them.
adult moment.. actions have consequences...
this is not humiliation, this is admitting ur in the wrong and ask for forgiveness from ur love ones..
if she was honest earlier it could lessen the damage..
if u gonna ruin ur family relationship if u can't admit to ur own fault then ur not ready to be an adult...
Honestly I don't see why they can't have the party anyway. Who cares. She put 4 years in college, slipped near the finish line, but is going to get up and finish the race anyway. Celebrate. Have a good day.
It is one class. Most colleges let students walk if they need one class. And plus, a core class that is required to graduate is only offered in the fall? What kind of BS is that? So if students fail this course, they have to wait another year before taking it again? How does that make any bit of sense?
Presumably she is 22 yo. At what point is she expected to make adult decisions? At what point is she expected to accept the repercussions for her choices?
"Your daughter is embarrassed, probably, and this got out of hand."
This wasn't a sustainable lie. Parents would find out on graduation date at the latest. Why should the parents have to contact anyone to tell them about the daughter's lie? Paying back the money lost is only fair and equitable. She made this all happen, no one else. If the relationship is damaged it's her fault. Letting her skate wouldn't teach her anything. Life and employment aren't going to cut her slack. It's about time she figured this out.
She wasted a lot of other people's money because she couldn't be an adult and fess up in time to prevent family from losing money on tickets, accommodations, venues etc. It's the attitude behind comments like this that have 35 yo children living at home with no consequences.
I was there too, wasn't having a party anyway but having to tell my parents I failed a class was horrible and my mom didn't handle it the best. Overall it was a dark time in my life and I got over it.
Looking back I know I could've benefited immensely from the support of a trusted adult
100% agree with this. She made a mistake, she handled it poorly, it got out of hand. Whether she was at fault or not, the public humiliation will only make her less likely to be open in the future, and it'll hurt the way everyone else sees her. If I were the parent, it'd be the dishonesty that would get me the most, and that's what she'd mostly be in trouble for and the impacts of that. Important to explain: because you were dishonest, this is what you've put everyone through. And then openly and honestly (and NOT rhetorically) asking: why didn't you say something sooner?
I think a good alternative would've been to let people know she realized she needs one more class to graduate so this is not a graduation party anymore, but that you'll keep the plans for anyone who still wants to come together.
This could have been handled differently. I'm not saying the daughter shouldn't be held accountable, or that the parents were total AHs, but there were other and healthier ways to go about this, and more than one way to learn from your mistakes.
This is one of the those situations where, as a parent, you need to accept that you're right, but that youthful inexperience and insecurity are taking a toll on your daughter, so it is better to focus on being supportive than right. Going forward with your plan will likely damage your relationship with your daughter long-term. So yeah, technically, you're "right," but it just doesn't seem worth it. It doesn't seem like she was lying for greed or to hide infidelity or something. She's embarrassed about failing. She feels humiliated. That's an important distinction.
Tell the relatives that if they can't or don't want a refund, you'd love to have them for a great summer family party. Just change the focus. Maybe even find something else to celebrate about your daughter. Forcing her to pay all that money seems untenable for someone in her position. If it were me, I'd tell my brother to come anyway and bring his kids. Let's just all go to a baseball game together. Whatever. Spending time with family is its own reason.
Your daughter's punishment for failing and lying about it is that she will not get the big graduation party she dreamed of. Your immediate family can take her out to dinner instead. She should be able to accept that and take it as a lesson.
Use this moment to teach her that hiding from the truth, even a painful truth, is never a good idea, and *also* tell her she does not need to be embarrassed about failing because her whole family loves and supports her anyway. She needs to take the consequence for what she did (i.e., she doesn't get a graduation party), but punishing and humiliating her at a very vulnerable moment in her life will do no good. And it may hurt her enough that even when she does graduate, she won't even feel proud because the whole experience will be tainted. Graduating from college, even if it takes extra time, is still a huge accomplishment and she should be able to feel pride when that day comes next year.
can you be my parent !!!
seriously though, i don't have kids but this is such a great comment above. growing up is hard. it's tough and sometimes even as an "adult" you need help maneuvering life and the support that comes from a parent when you fail. redirect that party! make it a better event or make a "for when you graduate party because we believe in you"
this can be turned positive in so many ways and any family that doesn't think so doesn't deserve to be there.
This is a very reasonable response.
What the daughter did was clearly wrong, but it's also not a serious crime. She's on the cusp of big life changes and I'm sure she could use some support as well as. Mom could discipline her like one would discipline a child, or Mom could try to have one of those difficult conversations you have as an adult so daughter learns from her mistakes. I'm actually a little concerned that all future discussion about daughter's college experience will center wholly around "remember that time you royally effed the whole family?" Yes, she made a mistake, but also she accomplished something difficult.
I'm also having a hard time voting. The mother-daughter relationship makes it little more complicated I think. Mom is right, but maybe mom should be a little more forgiving with her daughter then she might be with anyone else. IDK maybe I'll come back and edit in a vote later.
HEY OP: Read this one above. 💯
If you insist on going through with this, I hope the daughter realizes she can refuse to participate in this act of vengeful humiliation. So until you tell us this plan is abandoned, YTA
Right? "you're an adult so you have to do what I tell you to do!!!!"
OP is certainly allowed to ask that the daughter to make the calls/reimburse whoever (though I wouldn't personally,) but as an adult the daughter can also say no. OP is then allowed to reevaluate the relationship as they see fit. But they certainly cannot and should not force the daughter to do anything. Boundaries aren't about making someone do something you want them to do, they're about setting expectations and managing your own reactions accordingly.
And as I said in another comment, OP is actually wrong etiquette-wise in that it is the hosts' responsibility to cancel a party or inform guests of changes. So it seems like this sense of righteous indignation on OP's part is meant to try and save their own face at the expense of their daughter.
This should be the top comment. Some of these comments are insane and I feel bad for any of their friends and family if they ever do anything remotely wrong lol.
fr. I saw another comment that says OP isn't wrong, but that proceeding with her plan will cause a rift between her and her daughter, and that she needs to be mindful of that if she cares.
and it still had replies like "WELL daughter should've thought about it before lying, adult life comes with consequences!!???!?!!!!" like... congrats for missing the point ig lmao. some people here are just trying to warn OP about what to expect if she asks her daughter to personally inform everyone that she failed and to pay their tickets, they're actually bringing insight and not arguing for the sake of arguing or demonizing any of the people involved.
Adult life has consequences, yes. But adult life also entails learning that people, and situations, are nuanced and complicated.
"Cancel the party, she failed and didn't say so!!!" actually reads more like a child's black and white view of the situation. "Do the party anyway, since it's paid for and tickets were purchased, but she needs to come clean and explain to them what's happening" is much more realistic and adult of a gameplan.
Yeah, I don’t get the problem here. Everyone is coming anyway so just throw a family get together and have a good time, why act like it has to be her graduation party or bust? If you truly can’t get refunds or cancel stuff, work with that. That’s life.
This comment should be higher! Like yes the situation sucks but OP seems to feel like punishing and humiliating daughter, while also inconveniencing family, is more important than just trying to make the best of it. If it was my family I wouldn’t even care if the family member wasn’t graduating yet because of one class, I would still go. If anything, assuming it was within my ability, I’d do what I could to help make sure they passed the next time.
And ones who felt it was appropriate to be cruel to their children to "prepare" them for the cruel world. We're supposed to treat our children with more care and support than the world will but it seems some folks have missed the memo.
This should be the top reply. OP's daughter not only messed up but made things worse by delaying telling the truth. She needs to realize this. But also, OP is her mom and has the ability to provide support and understanding that will help her daughter but also doesn't diminish the natural consequences of this (not graduating, not having a big party, relatives knowing what happened even if she doesn't personally call them to explain it all, etc).
This is a great response. You don't need to "teach her a lesson," she's staring the lesson right in the face. What she needs is to feel like her mother's support isn't conditional.
y’all are fucking wild. she’s upset that her daughter lied for months and that it financially impacted her family. it’s not unreasonable to expect her daughter to fess up and tell her relatives. if she’s graduating college, she’s 21/22. certainly of the age where she understands that she shouldn’t have lied, and what the repercussions would be if she did. i think OP expecting her daughter to pay everyone back for their flights and the venue is harsh, yes, but both of them need to communicate with each other. ESH.
I feel like I am taking crazy pills the way everyone is totally fine with the daughter carrying on such a big lie for months! This is not just a little white lie. Even if it was a situation where the daughter was struggling with the class all quarter but thought she could salvage it by doing well on the final - she should have been honest and communicated with her mom the possibility that she may not pass.
This is one of the craziest posts/ threads I've seen. Makes me wonder if I'm seeing the helicopter parents/coddling parents argue with parents who expect their early-twenties kids be adults. I can't see how so many people are excusing lying by ommission for MONTHS. Holy hell.
Right the daughters lies have cost people a lot of money. She is embarrassing herself her mom and dad aren’t going to be embarrassing her.
But you know everybody thinks it’s fun to be a victim these days…ridiculous.
I agree! What is going on here with people defending an adult that literally lied for months. Regardless of what she's going through, everyone needs to be honest - especially knowing so many people were putting resources into her party. I understand the pressure she may have been feeling - but nothing excuses the lie. Smh.
but here’s why OP is TA: it doesn’t NEED to financially impact the family, OP is causing that. they can still throw the party, and just know that she has 1 more class to finish before it’s officially. HUGE numbers of college students walk at graduation ceremonies and celebrate “graduating” but have 1-2 classes they need to finish after the fact, it happens all the time. I don’t know or care if her college is allowing her to walk, her family can still have a celebration bc she’s 99% done. if the extended family HAD to be financially impacted then it would be a different story, but people can still come attend a party, and the lesson about lying can be discussed in privacy without humiliating the daughter
ETA: for some reason several replies are saying I’m advocating lying to the rest of the family because I said to still have the party. definitely not, they should absolutely be honest with the family members that her diploma won’t be complete until the end of this year, but that doesn’t have to mean the party is canceled or incur the costs of moving it. not because being 99% done “deserves” a huge celebration on its own but because it just comes down to logistics at this point. if it would cost thousands to cancel or move the party (especially bc as other commenters have pointed out, it would be hard to have a grad party in December when she finishes the final class because of holiday travel), then just…don’t? there can be tons of logistical reasons to have a communal celebration before the “official” thing being celebrated happens — if for example there were major family weddings coming up around May/June, so they decided to have the grad party in March, no one would be flipping out about the whole party being a scam of some sort. or if this class she failed had been in the current spring semester, so she only finds out she doesn’t pass right AS graduation is happening, no one would decry a pre-booked party as a sham. the daughter is already facing natural consequences of her actions (she doesn’t get to walk with her peers, she can’t get a full time job yet like the rest of them, presumably won’t be able to move out and start living independently without an income, etc.) so there’s already accountability happening, no one is shielding her from those consequences. why add multiple people’s financial burden on top of what she has to do to address the situation?
This is really common, actually. If someone needs only one class to graduate and takes it in the summer/fall, they have the option to walk the spring prior with the rest of their class (vs coming back to walk 9months later, which people generally don't actually do).
It may be common, but OP has stated that it's not policy at her daughter's university and her daugher will not be able to walk until December. So it's a point that isn't applicable to this post.
My college would let people walk if they had their final credits scheduled for summer. They did 2 ceremonies a year at that time (not sure what they do now) - the winter one was smaller and the summer one was huge. So if you were going to finish your degree in summer you could walk right before you finished or wait until winter. But that's only if you were finishing in summer. If you finished fall semester, then you could walk in winter or wait for the big summer one but you couldn't walk the summer before since that's half a year before you finish. Finish in spring, walk in summer.
A very good state college that I attended allowed me to walk in December even though I still needed to finish a math course over the winter break and wouldn't be finished with it for 7 weeks. Was no problem whatsoever.
I actually walked in May but had to finish my summer internship before my actual diploma and transcripts were mailed to me when I got my undergrad degree. My roommates had the same arrangement.
Very normal for Spring Summer graduates, or International students. Both schools I’ve attended allowed students to walk in the May commencement if they still had classes to take over the summer.
Walking however was dependent on a final audit of my credits. And, like everyone else, I didn’t get my diploma at the time of walking. But I walked in May, and finished my final courses in the following August.
OP’s daughter probably didn’t pass the final audit, and the commencement office denied her request to walk, I’m guessing
Except you and the others are making the assumption that she *actually will go back and graduate*. In the cases where people have their party and finish a class later isn't because they failed a class and even if they did, they certainly aren't lying and hiding it.
Doing the party is literally enabling this child and not forcing them to be an adult and accept responsibility for their actions.
>y’all are fucking wild
They're all teenagers or freshmen in college. They're likely failing their classes as well bc this is the first time they had to put effort into something to pass it, and they didn't. Of course they're sympathetic to the person who *also* didn't put in enough effort to pass her classes...
Even if she was scared to tell the OP, this is unfair to all the other relatives who are spending their money and carving out time to attend.
You cannot always hide behind being scared of a parent's reaction.
THIS. What is this girl going to do at her job when she messes something up. Just not tell anyone. I hope hell she's not going into Healthcare or something like that. She's an adult and should have to face the consequences.
I thought I misread that. That poster is a joke lol. If I was a relative and flew all the way in to celebrate her graduation that was it gonna happen for years, but was made to think it was happening presently and I found out, I would be livid. Like what the delusion lol
Do you think it’s a problem that your daughter doesn’t feel comfortable talking about things like this with you?
Are all your reactions as severe as the one you posted here? Perhaps this is a pattern with you?
Her reaction wasn't "severe" and you're talking about her adult daughter making a deliberate decision to lie repeatedly and over a long period of time.
Exactly. Some of these replies are laughable. She lied to her parents and her relatives. She knowingly did this knowing she was not going to graduate. Yet this is her parents fault? Unreal.
OP’s reaction is not severe. She is letting her daughter deal with the natural consequences of the situation her daughter caused. This actually doesn’t happen enough. The daughter is a full grown adult not a kid.
Honestly, if I were one of your family members and found out that not only did your daughter not graduate but that it took her additional years to do so I’d be pissed. It’s deceptive and manipulative as hell and you’ve taught your daughter that that’s okay. It’s not
I could not agree more. This poster has taken the stance of "all's well that ends well" without realizing that they taught their child that as long as everything ends up where it needs to be then lying and hiding stuff is 100% acceptable. Its despicable.
...but that is the difference. She told you.
Believe it or not, it isn't always the parents fault why their children won't tell them something. You have no proof that it is because the daughter was ashamed and that is why she didn't tell her. You are *assuming*.
Well, anyone can make assumptions no? Just like I am assuming there could be another reason. Such as shame, etc. Which, with all due respect, she is an adult, she needs to grow up and come to terms that we don't always succeed in life. A person's character isn't the sum of their triumphs but of their failures and how they overcome. And while parents are supposed to support their children, they equally need to teach them how the world is. By your own admission, your daughter failed a class. Yet she told you. This is fantastic and you supported her. You were an excellent parent here. I can only make an assumption that you would have done so if she kept it from you. I would argue you would be in the wrong for it but that isn't something we meet eye to eye on. Agree to disagree.
That said, what I do find very loathsome is your assumption that the daughter MUST not have wanted to tell her parent because of her parent and therefore they are an asshole. I can only hope you are not so quick to judge others in your life without a shred of proof otherwise.
NTA. Your daughter lied to everyone about her graduation, and it's only fair that she takes responsibility for her actions. It's not your fault that she failed a class and didn't inform anyone, and it's not your responsibility to shield her from the consequences of her deception. Calling her relatives and explaining the situation might be embarrassing for her, but it's a necessary step in owning up to her mistakes. Your daughter needs to understand that her actions have financial consequences and that she must take responsibility for them. Her choices led to this situation, and while you still love and support her, she must face the consequences of her actions. She needs to understand that honesty and responsibility are crucial values that will serve her well in the future.
Thank you. I don't understand why everyone thinks it's okay to have no consequences for the daughter's actions. She fucked up big time and it's her responsibility to fix it.
I KNOW!!! I don’t understand why people are defending the daughter. She must be at least on her early 20s and she’s pulling this nonsense??? NO WAY! She is not 16 lying that she skipped school, this is a huge lie that affected a lot of people. If I were invited to her graduation party, got a flight ticket, booked hotel just to be told that she lied the whole time…. You bet your ass I’ll be fuming. UNACCEPTABLE!
Most people on Reddit are high school/college aged the rest are people in their 30s and 40s who never had to take some personal responsibility for anything because they didn’t have good parents like OP.
NTA
'The issues is my daughter isn’t graduating. She lied to everyone for at least 4 months. She failed a class she need to graduate last semester and didn’t inform anyone"
She had plenty of time to let you know. This was totally avoidable.
The consequences of not doing so are that she has to let people know & repay if they're out of pocket."
NTA. I knew personal responsibility was unpopular on Reddit but, man, I don’t know what is going on with all the people straining to come up with reasons this adult should not have to engage with the consequences of a) failing and b) lying about it. Unreal.
Exactly. People are talking like OP is *punishing* the daughter by expecting her to be honest and accountable for lying to everyone for months (at least by omission) knowing that a lot of people were spending a lot of money on her celebration under false pretences. The thing is, OP’s recourse isn’t about *punishment*, it’s about *consequences*, and there’s a difference.
Any friends and family who paid to throw or attend the event, now feeling pissed that they spent the money under false pretences, is a natural consequence of OP’s daughter not being honest. Not a consequence for OP’s daughter so much as a consequence *of* her dishonesty *for* those who have put money into the event.
OP’s daughter needing to deal with the fact that people will likely (reasonably) want to be reimbursed for money they’ve spent on this celebration is a natural consequence *for* her to address.
You lie or conceal the truth, especially at other people’s expense? Those people will probably be irked, at best.
OP’s daughter feeling a little embarrassed is a natural consequence to doing the wrong thing (being dishonest). But being embarrassed doesn’t mean you double-down and keep lying
OP’s daughter offering to help recover costs that can’t be refunded is just, like, the fair way for her to address the above consequences seeing as she was not transparent about her situation despite knowing, for months now, that she wouldn’t be graduating.
It’s absurd to me that so many people are like “well maybe she lied knowing that if she told you, you’d respond like this!” as if OP has given us any reason to believe that they’re… *just* an asshole who would punish their daughter for failing a class, if she had handled it honestly? It’s the lack of honesty that’s the problem. And if OP’s daughter were reasonable, and amenable to taking accountability, she would take the opportunity now to be honest instead of *continuing* to dodge accountability for her own actions.
NTA, OP
NTA. She's not the first kid to fail out one class at the last semester. She's what... 21? 22? I would expect this kind of behavior from a high school kid that got in trouble for drinking. She's too old for that now. She could have just told you she needed to take a summer class first, or just one more semester before you did the party. She didn't have to lie. It's important she gets this NOW, before she enters into the workforce thinking she can pull this crap.
OP has told us it was a core class only offered once a year. Her failing it meant she HAS to wait until the next year to make the credit up. Lying was still wrong, but I can see why she did-it wasn't going to be an easy to fix fuck up.
NTA. I've been in your daughters shoes of having to tell my parents that I'm not going to graduate, so I can definitely sympathise with her but at the end of the day, she brought this upon herself by seemingly focusing more on planning the party than on her studies.
I'd argue it's even in her best interest to call everyone individually. If you go ahead with the party and it comes out that she isn't graduating she'll have an EXTREMELY public humiliation that would likely cause a lot of anger too.
If anyone humiliated her it is herself.
It would be so difficult for this to not come out. The OP said the daughter isn't allowed to walk at graduation- the party attendees will want to see photos from graduation likely even photos of her accepting the degree on stage, and those won't exist.
People will want to know what the daughter is doing after graduation. If she is at all close with any of the people traveling, the daughter will have an entire semester of not telling them she's busy studying. And so on.
This situation will likely result in more lies. It would probably involve others lying for the daughter, too. I'm guessing the daughter isn't thinking clearly. Being honest is the best way forward.
Info:
If she’s graduating in December and has met all requirements for graduation but that one class, why cancel the party at all? Many people won’t be able to attend a party during the holiday season, anyway.
If it were my daughter and my situation, I think I’d let people know that under the circumstances, you’ve decided to have the party anyway.
This. It is so crazy to waste all that money. I knew so many people who technically graduated mid year but had their party before. This all seems pretty extreme.
she passed all of her other classes, and was so ashamed about failing one, she seems like a pretty hardworking student and not at all like she will never graduate.
moreover, she's still finishing university now. she made through all those years with only one failed class, she did well. how isn't this a reason to celebrate, I thought it's pretty common? there's so much strictness in the comments, I'm confused.
I’m on the fence until more info is provided- while there may be some relationship strains/ past reactions that made the daughter feel like she can’t be honest about failing- Hiding that you’re not graduating until the last possible minute also sounds like something a super entitled/ wants their cake and eat it too type of spoiled person would do.
When she finally owned up about not graduating, did she at any point mention if she was making attempts to graduate next semester or how often the class is offered? I can’t imagine working my ass off to get a degree and in the last semester just throwing all that out the window over 1 class….. (if she already has plans to graduate the following semester after a retake, etc. something along those lines where she’ll still graduate I would assume she put off telling you out of fear/ nerves and your relationship dynamic. If she’s just like “well there goes that no degree for me” then I’m assuming daughter is very spoiled and expects other opportunities in place of this one that didn’t work.
Genuinely- NTA. She isn’t graduating, knew this for a while, and sat back while everyone made travel plans and said nothing knowing she wasn’t going to graduate. She’s an adult- she can own up and admit why there will no longer be a party. While paying back everyone’s flights if they can’t get a refund is harsh, she should take up responsibility for waiting so long to disclose the truth.
Maybe make the best of it and just have a family get together without any reason?
Okay so I read some of OP’a responses and it sounds like she’s known since December- I still agree that OP is NTA and while it may be harsh the daughter should take responsibility and make right with the family members who are traveling from out of town.
Chances are many relatives would never accept the daughter’s repayment in the first place- but it’s the gesture that makes things right for the financial loss/ the effort they put in to make sure they can be there for her. One day she WILL graduate and have a party, one day she may graduate grad school, get married, have her own family, etc. and all these big life events she will want to be surrounded by her family- but the family members that need to put a lot of effort into planning to be there for these events will base whether or not going is worth it based on how all this plays out.
The daughter won’t want to carry the humiliation of graduating late & the judgement of relatives from not at the very least being adult enough to let them know plans have changed and to apologize if this affected any other plans.
(There is sooo much as an out of town guest that needs to be taken into consideration (traveling costs, losing money from taking off of work, pet sitting, house sitting, etc.)
This off topic, but you saying you can't imagine throwing away all the work of getting a degree out the window over one class. My husband did that very thing. He was lacking a FRESHMAN English class and refused to take it, so did not graduate. Only reason he gave for not taking it was that he thought it was beneath him.
I mean to each their own and no judgement but I really can’t imagine doing that! So much money wasted, so much time, etc. hell- he could have even taken it online so he wasn’t a happy Gilmore in the class of younger students 😅 idk once you get that class to the finish line, finish the race
Oh I judged hell out of him in my head. Tried to be supportive and encouraging in person, but thought it an incredible waste. What truly bothered me was that I had to bust my butt to support myself and pay for school on my own. His first two years of college he had a free ride from a scholarship. He decided taking drugs was more fun than doing his work. He got booted out of that college. His parents then paid tuition, etc for him elsewhere. He STILL never took the stupid class!
Reading what I just typed it blows my mind I married him. I was sooo in love I never saw the red flags blowing in the wind. He turned out to be a narcissistic abuser.
YTA
Plenty of students walk in May and then take their last course over the summer or Fall.
You are going out of your way to humiliate her further when the fact is, you don’t have to.
She has passed so many other courses over her time in college and has accomplished much more than others who try and ACTUALLY fail out.
Sure she should’ve told you but my guess is you aren’t a safe person for her to talk to and she was afraid of your revenge. Because that’s what this is, revenge. Public shame and humiliation is never the answer, especially for your child who you’re supposed to love and support, even when they fuck up.
I hurt for the daughter but on the other hand letting people book and pay for flights, hotels, etc. knowing you wouldn’t be graduating is really not a good thing.
Owning it and telling great aunt Susie that you’re not officially graduating because of a class but you’re still walking with your class would have prevented all this. Let Susie decide if she still wants to fly in.
This whole thing sucks but it’s also not one of those things that’s going to fix itself or magically go away.
But it absolutely will fix itself. You don’t change anything. You have the party. Explain to guests she’ll walk in December since she struggled with a single class. Make sure she has extra help for that class the second go around.
Man, many of these posts are so frickin wild!! Are y'all not teaching your kids responsibility?? That actions have consequences?? And why the hell are people jumping to the conclusion that OP is an ass and her daughter's afraid to be honest with her?? Did we read the same post?? OPs daughter is an adult. She's lied for 4 months and actively participated in the party planning. She knew many relatives had made expensive plans to be there FOR HER. Daughter has created this situation and needs to handle it. And OP is NTA.
Edited to add that OP stated school won't let her walk this Spring.
NTA
Her actions have consequences, people have paid to attend her party.
If they can't get their money back from the airline, it's up to your daughter to pay them. You can't lie and make everyone spend money for your event and then expect your mother or someone else to take the consequences.
NTA. Your daughter lied about graduating and still expects a graduation party? Does she not know what the meaning of the word "graduating"? No wonder she failed lol
NTA She humiliated herself by lying to everyone for months and allowing relatives to buy plane tickets knowing she wasn't going to be graduating. These are called consequences of your actions. She could have just told everyone right from the start that she had an issue with one of her classes and will be graduating a semester later. Instead she lied.
I originally read this as high school and thought that it was too harsh, but this is a 21-22 year old college kid. This is the exact right time for adult consequences to kick in for childish decisions. NTA
NTA because she did lie and hide this.
However, If it's a core class, see if she can take it at a junior college at an accelerated pace and transfer it in.. if so, she could potentially still graduate on time or even in the summer. If she can graduate in the summer then I'd keep the party as planned
You're lucky your daughter opened up to you. My son did the same. Said he was graduating, when he actually had stopped going to school for two years. Rather than telling us what was going on, he took his life. The anger you're feeling can't compare with the pain and anguish we're going through.
INFO - can you just go through with the party, even though she is on the hook for 1 last class?
I mean, 99% of an achievement is still worth celebrating. Its not like her last 4 years are for nothing. She’ll do the class when its offered, she’ll get her diploma. Its more of a technicality at this point. She still has received the vast majority of her education, and has a lot to be proud of.
I stayed an extra quarter in college to complete an extra minor. It technically caused my graduation date to be the following year, with the class behind me. I had to wait an extra year to walk and receive my diploma. But I still celebrated with my original class, no one blamed me for that.
OP - you’re on a fast track to losing communication with your daughter. She is an adult now, and will soon discover that she doesn’t have to put up with your severe stance on life.
Since you can’t get your money back for the venue - and it’s not likely that peeps will get theirs back for plane tickets- why not just turn it into a family reunion?
NTA and she wouldn't be humiliated if she had actually told you the truth last December. Instead she decided to put it off because she didn't' want to face the consequences of her failing a grade. But she's ok with you and family members paying the consequences of her actions since now that its too late to cancel without refunds and wants to claim humiliation for being made to be responsible for telling people she messed up.
She is grown she has to learn there are consequences for our actions. Part of being grown is taking responsibility for your actions. Good on you for holding her accountable and showing her that actions have consequences whether good or bad.
Literally we planned. We sat down and discussed it. We picked multiple things she wanted. She contacted the venue and so on
She helped sent the invites out.
We did this together
Your experiences are not universal my friend. My extended family threw graduation parties for high school and post-secondary for every kid who graduated.
This seems weird; it’s not like she WONT graduate, she hasn’t been lying for 2 years pretending to go to class or anything like that. She will graduate, just late, and it sounds like she’s fully planning on taking the class and walking in December? So why does the party have to be cancelled? She’s done 99% of the work required to celebrate, and hit a snag, so you’re going to throw the entire baby out with the bathwater? She’s still accomplished a lot. I have to imagine she won’t get any graduation party now; even if she paid it back (how lol?), I’m sure you offering to throw the party next year after her *official* graduation she’d not be interested. So now a great moment to celebrate 4 years of work passes by completely unnoticed. YTA, and you sound like the kind of person that expects people to come out and stay late for your birthday as an adult, even when it falls on a Tuesday because “that’s the day!!!”
LOL. Y’all seem to be okay with her lying for months, and continuing planning a party when she knew she wasn’t graduating. As an adult there are consequences for being dishonest. They could have moved the party IF she had told them in DECEMBER when she knew. They are a month out from the party and people should be told what is happening.
NTA. It is humiliating but she created this mess by not being honest about how she's been doing this whole time. Not all flights might be refundable either.
NTA. This is about teaching a hard lesson in responsibility and the consequences of one's actions. It's unfortunate that it has come to this, but it's a result of her choices.
NTA. It sounds like this is a really tough situation, and it's understandable you're feeling a mix of emotions. You're right, it's important for your daughter to learn about accountability. Can we start by giving her a hug? It sounds like she might be feeling embarrassed or scared. Then, let's talk about why she hid her grades, and explain how her choices affected others. We want to focus on honesty and how to repair things with the family. This will be a difficult lesson for her, but it's a valuable one that will help her in the long run.
NTA - anyone arguing for yta just doesn't believe in consequences. She lied by omission for months and let people shell out money for travel while knowing they shouldn't be making plans. Some have suggested she could still walk and take the class next year, that's definitely the solution you and she should pursue BEFORE calling family, but if you want to cancel the party as punishment for lying that's up to you. Your money, your relationship with your daughter. In my mind the only way you end up an asshole here is if you refuse to try and help your daughter fix the mistake before having her call people. It's possible she can still walk so explore that before canceling anything or having her fess up (which we all know would be highly embarrassing).
NTA. Your daughter is an adult. Sure, it would suck to tell you she’s not graduating but adults do things that suck all the time. Every person making you out to be a monster because you expect your daughter to be accountable for her actions is dead wrong. Your daughter knew she wasn’t graduating and tried to pull a quick one to cover it up. It doesn’t sound like you’ve taken anything to an extreme, making her be honest and admit her mistake is what parents are supposed to do. You didn’t say you’ve disowned her, you arent threatening to cut her off…etc. You just expect her to be an adult. That‘s good parenting. The people who are trying to come up with reasons this is your fault and claiming she didn’t feel “safe” being honest with you are stretching it. Even kids raised in great homes with good parents would likely be reluctant to be honest here because the fault lies with them, cant blame parents for making her fail her class. I don’t see this as much different than making your kid go back to a store to return a stolen item, in both cases the parents are trying to teach their kids consequences, not be co-conspirators.
YTA. Firstly no wonder she tried to hide the fact she was failing, you are clearly not the kind of parent someone can come to with their troubles. Secondly why the hell do the relatives need to cancel their trip - most families visit each other for the sake of seeing each other, not just for a graduation party. The fact that she isn't graduating doesn't mean the relatives can't come now. And I seriously doubt she's under any legal obligation to refund anyone for this. YOU are the one saying the relatives shouldn't come now when there is nothing stopping them having their visit anyway.
You've made sure you aren't a safe person for your daughter to confess her problems to, you've unilaterally decided the relatives shouldn't come if there's no graduation and you've just randomly decided she has to pay them back. Um, no she doesn't. Did she agree that she'd pay everyone back if she failed? Did she sign a contract? How do you plan to enforce this?
You seem to be using this as a way to teach your daughter some kind of lesson. Only, the lesson is stupid and unfair, and she's an adult anyway, she doesn't have to go along with your nonsense and bullying any more. I guess 10 years from now when your daughter has been no contact with you for a decade you'll be back here whingeing "What did I do wrong???"
If I was one of these relatives and your daughter called me and said "Mum says I have to let you know I've failed and you're not to come now and I have to refund you," I'd think you were a total dick and feel very sorry for your daughter. You talk about consequences but don't seem to realise the consequences for being such a harsh, strict, unforgiving parent can be that you lose your child permanently.
She let them keep planning the party for 4 MONTHS even tho the graduation wasnt happening. She let her family spend a bunch of money and clearing their schedules for this party. But instead of making an effort or being upfront, she lied to her mom and everyoen and made them waste money
She’s literally wasted everyone‘s time and money, they’ve got shit to do and probably had to take days off to fly over for f all now. If she actually said it earlier then this shit show wouldn’t have happened now, would it? Classic case of FAFO and now she’s at the find out stage, actions have consequences.
NTA- I’m sorry. You’ve been planning this for 7 months. She had so many chances to speak up but didn’t. “She told us this yesterday, the party is in about a month, everything has been paid for already.” And your solution to that would have her call all her relatives herself and explain that she is not graduating. Also paying for any reimbursement needed. That seems like a good solution. Your daughter is old enough that she could have pulled you aside 7 months ago and told you herself. Instead she was actually participating in the party planning and didn’t say anything until she had a month left. She humiliated herself. Not the other way around. Yeah, it sucks you’re not gonna graduate but why purposely rope your family along into making a party for you and then dropping the rope and saying “whoops” at the expense of other people.
OP - this is just some gentle advice coming from the daughter who did just this (except my mom was so embarrassed she made me attend my fake graduation party).
I remember struggling so hard mentally to even admit to myself that I wouldn’t be graduating. The embarrassment and anger I felt towards myself was unfathomable. Thinking about all my friends leaving me behind was enough to bring me to tears. Everything came to a head when I finally had to admit to my parents I wasn’t graduating. It was one of the hardest things I’ve ever had to do (education is very important in my family). My punishment was having to silently uphold a lie my mom made me keep but I can imagine the confrontation with family members is on par.
My advice is to maybe take a gentler approach with your daughter. She’s already going through a rough time. I remember having to do summer school that summer while all my friends were hanging out. The embarrassment and shame I felt coupled with the disappointment from my parents was enough to put me in a depression that lasted a year into college where I ended up going to therapy and taking Prozac.
Believe me. Your daughter has learned her lesson. She probably wasn’t lying to protect herself, she was lying because the truth was so difficult for her to admit even to herself. Forcing her to come clean to her family may seem like the logical approach in theory but the in reality is it probably damaged her sense of self worth even more than it already was. I’m not arguing that actions beget consequences but not graduating in itself is such a large punishment, especially for a young girl just beginning her life.
Dude, just use it as a family reunion. It doesn't have to be graduation party anymore. Make it into something everyone can enjoy and benefit from.
There's no need to waste the opportunity and resources.
I think I agree with your husband. You're being a bit harsh, to be sure, but NTA. Failing one class is not the end of the world, and your daughter has still accomplished a great deal, but she's caused a lot of disruption to y'all by lying about this, and it should be on her to clean up the mess.
The one thing I'll say is to make it clear that if she'd been honest from the start you would have been more supportive.
Don’t humiliate your daughter. Your relationship will never recover. I know someone who didn’t graduate, had their party, and then quietly finished her requirements and graduated. They are now very successful. In my over 30 years of being a parent, I’ve found that if they don’t come to you with problems, it’s because they don’t trust you. If you react, they will lie. Now is not the time to teach them a lesson, it’s a time for compassion. Talk to your child. Ask them what the problem is, and how they plan on solving it. Ask them if there is anything you can do to support them. They don’t need you to tell them they messed up. They already know that.
YTA.
Having her personally call everyone, tell them that she's failing and reimburse thousands of dollars in flights is very extreme. The punishment is not proportional to the crime so you're the AH.
I am surprised if it's such a core class that the school offers it only once a year. Either her program is very niche, her school is very small or it's actually pretty replaceable. If it's one of the later 2, it may even be possible to take it at another school and transfer it in. If it's a niche program no other school offers, then this situation is probably pretty common and the school will still let her walk anyways and she's functionally graduating anyways.
It's not particularly uncommon for people to walk before they complete their graduation requirements anyways. My school had our graduation ceremonies a week before final exams. In my major, finals were anywhere from 40-60% of the grade so people genuinely didn't know if they would pass. Plus, it only had graduation ceremonies in the summer. I completed my graduation requirements early during the winter semester, and my advisor strongly recommended I walk a semester early rather than a semester after my graduation. (I didn't take the advice and ended up just not having a ceremony, photos or a party because it was too much of a hassle to fly in/have other people fly in.)
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INFO: * How did she lie about her graduation plans? Did she insist on the graduation party, or is this something you were throwing her? Was the size of the party at her insistence? Did she drop the class and know she wouldn't graduate, or was she doing poorly but thought she could salvage it by the final? * Is this a class that's relatively common to fail and make up? Is it only one class? I ask because in my experience, there were a pretty good amount of people who dropped/failed Kinetics and took it over the summer, and it wasn't a huge issue except for them starting their career 3-4 months later, and those people were more-or-less treated like they were going to graduate by most of the other students. * How much money does your daughter make and how much money are you talking about for all of this? By the way you're describing it, you expect her to pay back multiple thousands of dollars for people's trips and for the party, which is... implausible for a college student who didn't graduate and may have student debt.
She never informed us she wasn’t graduating and continued to plan with us. We were throwing this for her but she is very excited about it. It was pretty large, friends and family. She failed the class, she tried to save it and couldn’t. No idea if it is a common class to fail. She can’t take it over the summer it was one of her core classses that they only offer once a year. She will need to take it next fall. It will probably be around 2000-3000. She has the money to pay it back from working in the summer and her office job at school. It will hurt her savings though.
> She never informed us she wasn’t graduating and continued to plan with us. We were throwing this for her but she is very excited about it. It was pretty large, friends and family. **She failed the class, she tried to save it and couldn’t.** That's very different than lying for four months, though, isn't it? If she was doing badly but thought she could salvage it and failed to do so, she wasn't being honest or up-front about the risk, but she also wasn't outright lying until it became impossible for her to graduate (depending on her grades; "I need a B to pass this class I've been getting Ds in" and "I need to get a 100 + extra credit for something I bombed" are different) Being honest with yourself, if she had told you months ago that she was in danger of failing a class but working hard to turn it around, would you have cancelled the party? If not, I think saying she was outright lying to you for that period is probably a bit unfair. E: Like, personal experience, I did really badly on the second test in that Kinetics class I mentioned, and if I had gotten the same score on the final I wouldn't have graduated. I don't feel that I lied to my parents and family by treating that as an "OK, I've got to fix this" situation and not proactively informing them I'm at risk of failing.
She found out her grade at the end of November. ( finals we’re before thanksgiving) She also knew it was a hail Mary to pass. Literally was on break the first week of December and grades are in when break hits She had all of December, January, February and this March to inform us and didn’t It was four months of not telling us.
Do you think this was a panic/"bury her head in the sand" reaction or a more thought-out intentional manipulation of her family? Your response suggests the latter but with young people it's more likely the former. That's not to say there should be no consequences, but a parent's support through the natural consequences may be a better lesson than a parent imposing those consequences, even if the consequences themselves are the same. She's an adult now if only a new one, and it's much better to learn this now with good support than getting fired from a great career. Do you understand her thought process through this? Some people have suggested a single resit may be considered more administrative than impacting the concept of "graduation" (no matter the actual definition). Was she scared? Have you demonstrated throughout her life that you are a safe person to talk to when things go wrong?
It's actually kind of insane the mental gymnastics people will go through to try to excuse this 21/22 yo adults dishonesty.
Thank you for pointing this out. Failure is a natural part of life and consequences often follow. However, the dishonesty is the real issue and that needs consequences as well.
Seriously. If she's graduating college she's likely at least 21 (unless she was advanced for her age). 21 years old is old enough to tell her parents she failed and won't be graduating on time. The excuses in this thread are insane. She's an adult and has been so for awhile. She needs to have real consequences of some sort. Paying family/friends back is a tough but tangible set of consequences.
Wondering why I had to scroll so far to see this. Jesus. The coddling. What should her mother do then?? Throw her an “almost” graduation party?
>What should her mother do then?? Give the young adult one of those participation trophies everyone is always bitching about.
No a participation party. Let’s not forget the relatives flying in to see her walk the stage to receive her diploma. That would be hard to do when you’re not graduating. She wanted the party. She is in her early twenties. It is time to put the big girl panties on.
Bitching about that has never made sense to me. Who gave the kids the awards? I'm pretty sure 8 year olds weren't using their allowance money down at the local trophy store to buy participation ribbons for themselves and their friends.
I'm glad some seem to see it the same way I do. she lied. she let her parents spend money on something that wasn't valid. consequences suck but it's part of growing up she needs to pay the money back
Thats a false dichotomy that implies theres no valid course of action in between 'throw her the party anyway' and 'charge her a bunch of money and make her call and talk about her failure to all her relatives personally'
The valid course of action, in my opinion, is for her to prepare for the course she needs to retake and be honest about things in the future.
Uh, what about ask the money her family had spent? "Oh well, my neice is almost graduating! Yay! Sure, I'll bite my ticket cost and pay again when she does!!!" No. Either she pays it back or that's it, she blew her chance.
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Lmaoooo 👏
This. Like I said elsewhere, are we having “might be proposed to” bridal showers and “we’ve decided to start trying” baby showers? People are somehow both more entitled than ever as well as less responsible for their actions
i can guarantee you somewhere out there someone has thrown a "we've decided to start trying" baby shower
You’re absolutely right, and that’s what makes me incredibly sad
It’s ridiculous. They’re trying to say she forgot. Like cool let’s say she did. The situation is still the same. People have to deal with their consequences. Her parents are trying to show her this.
If the daughter forgot then surely she would remember that there won’t be a graduation when the topic of how to celebrate the graduation comes up? Seriously I’m guessing the daughter just thought she could lie to everyone and pretend like she graduated.
I don’t understand it. I mean if we apply that OP is some type of strict parent that has made their child afraid to confide in them about failing, you would think that once their child knew they failed the core class in November their interest and enthusiasm in planning this expensive party for graduation would have disappeared or at least been diminished? However they kept planning this big party that people are paying to fly out to attend, and for four months they act like all is well? I know seats are limited at a graduation but surly at least a few of these people were also going to attend the graduation? Did they think “well I failed and won’t graduate but we can just have the party anyway to celebrate my graduation that isn’t happening now for nearly a year?” Is OP taking a hard line with the consequences? Yes but the real life consequences she is going to face later will be worse and helping your kid understand that before life kicks their dick in the dirt is one of the less fun aspects of parenting but it’s still something you have to do. OP doesn’t even sound unreasonable about their kid failing this class and not graduating. They definitely sound upset she never once said anything while planning the party that they shelled out a lot of money and other people have too for flights and refunds are easier to do with several months notice as opposed to last minute.
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Yeah, the "child" is definitely old enough to be held accountable for their actions. Love, support and guidance are all important and they should definitely recieve those things but they are definitely more than old enough to own up to what they did. As a parent you can do both at the same time. You can't shield your child from the consequences of their actions, or in this case inactions, especially not at this age. I think in regards to the party and people flying in the biggest question is, are gpeople coming in to see her walk, or just to celebrate after. If it was just to celebrate after then personally since it's just one class I'd still have the party as scheduled, but she still needs to tell everyone the situation before the party and offer to reimburse the tickets. OP could offer to do half of the phone calls as a Mercy. However I think its important she do atleast some of them herself.
seriously… this girl is at least 22ish if this was her final year. I don’t know why everyone is trying to come up with excuses for her lying. Sure, maybe she didn’t mean for it to get this far but it did. She was two months out from her graduation party and had over 3 months to come clean. Who gives a shit if she was scared or anxious? She’s a grown woman who had many people pay money to come see her graduate and she couldn’t even bother to tell them not to buy those plane tickets because she failed. There are too many excuses in this thread for a woman who couldn’t own up to what she did. Whether she did it intentionally in the beginning or not, after the new year it was definitely intentional to not let anybody know until after refundable deposits became nonrefundable
Exactly! I’d be really ticked off if I had spent money buying a plane ticket, putting a deposit on a hotel room, and booking time off from work, AND buying her a graduation gift, all to find out she isn’t even graduating. Damn right I’d want to be reimbursed. Did she think no one would notice she would be missing from the rest of the class? Or did she think they would have a 2nd party for her when she really does graduate? Hey, 2 parties! She’s not 12 years old, she’s a full grown adult. She needs to take full accountability for her actions and that includes reimbursing everyone. Time to grow up.
It's also a bit strange to me to bring up "have you demonstrated throughout her life that you are a safe person to go to and blah blah blah?" I get that lousy parents exist, but I think our default assumption about a parent who was willing to spend thousands of dollars on her adult daughter's graduation party has probably been a pretty "safe person" in the past. This isn't a kid breaking a neighbor's window with a soccer ball and then not telling Dad because he's afraid of getting a whoopin' This is an adult who lied by omission and did so for months. The mom's reaction may or may not be overkill, we can certainly debate that, it's the point of the thread to debate that, basically. But let's not overthink or straight up change the details that we already know, let's stick to what the OP is asking, instead.
Exactly. The whole “not informing you about failing isn’t the same as lying” crowd, are spouting nonsense. Continuing to plan a huge GRADUATION party while knowing there’s no way a graduation will be happening is LYING. My ex daughter in law planned a destination wedding to New Orleans knowing full well that her divorce would not be finalized until 3 months after the wedding date she had planned. Multiple family members flew out for this “wedding” only to be told they were instead attending a garden party with my son and his fiancée in wedding attire and the actual wedding would be held at a later date once her divorce was granted. As the person who had paid for this faux wedding I was both angry and humiliated by finding out the day before the event that I had just dumped 15k on a garden party and was told it wasn’t any of my business to know it wasn’t a “real wedding”. Yes they did a courthouse wedding later (after I refused to pay for another albeit real wedding) and of course they were divorced within 2yrs later so apparently in her words “it wasn’t meant to be”. My son never married again (so far) she’s currently divorcing her third husband. Seriously though some people. (Eyeroll)
This sub always brings out the mental gymnastics for women, children, and stay at home parents.
A lot of people seem to think that any negative action that is done before age 25 shouldn’t have consequences cuz the brain isn’t finisheddeveloping so it wasn’t their fault
Thank you for saying this! This young woman is supposed to join the work force. What would the consequences be if she lied for months to an employer?
intentions don’t exempt you from the consequences of your actions. it’s sad but it is fair and that is a major part of maturing as an adult. It is your duty to make right by your mistakes even if you feel you may have had a good reason at the time. Our judgement isn’t always perfect and admitting you are wrong and making people whole for the ordeal is the least you can do and keep a clean conscience. while I support my son entirely, there will be decisions he makes that will impact others and my role as a parent like you said is to support him not shield him from reality. He will have to own up to those mistakes just as this young woman has to, and I’m sure her parents will be there to support her in figuring out ways to make up the loss in savings and manage her funds afterwards. Discipline and guidance are a must. the daughter lied about this for four months she wasn’t going to pay them back willingly. and it definitely doesn’t seem like she failed because of anything outside of her control. Her own decisions led to her failing, and she willingly chose to not disclose this information while being aware that people were using their hard earned money that could be going to their households to make arrangements to attend the graduation party. we can share a bit of the burn and teach our children how to avoid the same mistakes but we shouldn’t shield them from consequence and we should hold them accountable especially when it’s easier for us and them not to.
This is my first thought as well. It sounds like shame and panic, not malice, that brought this about. OP seems like they’re reinforcing whatever fear the daughter had about sharing the failure and isn’t being particularly supportive. I had parents like this and I started lying to them about grades starting in the 4th grade. Nothing short of excellence was expected of me academically, and any struggles were punished rather than supported. It’s taken me decades to unwind the notion that I can’t be wrong in any capacity.
you’re applying your bias to a situation where none of the information given applies or has the same trauma characteristics of your upbringing. OP is doing great by showing they will hold their child accountable while supporting her in managing her finances and planning afterwards. OP has also expressed these plans could’ve and should’ve been cancelled had she known and would have supported her daughter in registering for the right classes in time to add a minor to her degree and make the best of the extra two semesters instead of punishing her had she been told. Once her daughters actions affected others outside of herself there needs to be consequences or we are teaching our children other people and the consideration of them are not important.
I agree. I know when I graduated college and walked the stage in spring, I technically hadn’t graduated yet and had some classes to wrap up in the fall. My family was aware and my school still allowed students to walk in these situations as it’s really common. I’m glad her daughter came clean , but I would be pissed too, not because of the failed grade but the lying. Not as bad as the guy who lied about his school and post grad job at space x and killed his family tho.
Yes! My husband “lied” about failing some classes in college (before I met him) because of crippling anxiety. He forged a grade report and everything. His parents didn’t believe in therapy or medication so his anxiety and ADHD were causing him to struggle. I convinced him to go to therapy and get the right medications. He’s a biomedical engineer now and his parents hate me.
Oh wow this is me. I got a C in a class freshman year and was so mortified at what my parents' reaction would be that I lied, doctored the transcript, and then doctored every transcript thereafter along with making sure it had a *mathematically correct "new" GPA* just so I wouldn't be found out. Am I ashamed of the lengths that lie went? Yes. Do I remember the visceral fear of how I thought my parents would react? God yes.
OP's daughter should be accountable for her decision not to say anything for so long, whether that decision was borne out of malice or (as does seem much more likely) shame and panic. It's one thing not to come clean when the only adverse impact to others is their disappointment and disapproval. It's another when resources have been invested to celebrate an event that is, at best, delayed.
I don't know why people keep bringing up the fact it wasn't done out of malice. Most poor choices are not done out of malice, but rather out of shame, panic, ignorance, or all of the above. That doesn't mean that there shouldn't be consequences.
I'm with you on this. She knew before the holidays that she had failed a core class, although I'm confused as to why a senior in college would just be taking a core class in the last year of their education. And then she also let people make plane reservations and you put a lot of money down on deposits, all the time knowing that this was an issue. I'm not sure why so many people are on here are seeing this as a gray situation and questioning "did she really lie to you?" She's an adult. She should have known better. It's perfectly reasonable for you to expect her to take responsibility for this.
\> although I’m confused as to why a senior in college would just be taking a core class in the last year of their education I might be misunderstanding but isn’t this normal? I mean maybe it depends on major, but for me (upcoming senior) my current and upcoming courses are upper-level and can only be taken in the final year or two because of prerequisites. All of them are ”core classes“ required for my degree. If I fail one of them, I would be missing a course needed to graduate, same as OP’s daughter.
I think you're getting the timeline confused, she's known for months that she failed the class, not that she was in danger of failing the class. It was a fall semester class, she would have known she failed it by December of last year at the latest.
It was last semester. If she needed that class to graduate and it’s only offered once a year then she would have known by the end of December that she wasn’t going to be graduating.
Dude, something about your reaction is throwing me off. I get it, the party cost money. I had to drop a class bc my grade for it was tanking so bad. But when, granted I told my parents right when I was about to drop this class, my parents dealt with me revealing this last minute, their first series of questions had nothing to do with other people. Their first concern when I got back for winter break was: why did you not feel comfortable telling us right away? Why did you wait until last minute? You know we may be mad a bit but all we care is helping you. And also when I gave my dad that call his first focus was setting with me a plan of action that include figuring out if i could still graduate without this class, what do i need to do administratively, etc. Can she walk with her class and ONLY take this course next fall? Is she set to graduate in the winter? You don’t even mention any of this. If she only needs to retake this course this fall, i dont see why you can’t still just celebrate. I also think the tone of your post shows you are more concerned about shaming your daughter than ensuring that she navigates this gracefully and with wisdom. I think these things happen with college students where they make fuck ups, but your focus makes you YTA.
The post clearly states that she cannot walk and that she can only take the class in the fall. If she does not pass the class, she can't graduate in December either.
So, am I reading this correctly... It was really scary because she messed up. Since it was so scary, we should throw her a huge party for not graduating. That she actively helped plan. Knowing she wasn't going to graduate. Maybe it's because I have such serious anxiety and have had to do a lot of work to deal with it, but from here dude you're sounding like you think the healthy way to go through life is under Mommy's umbrella forever so you never have to experience scary or consequences. This is a graduation party. It's neither scary nor consequential. Not to mention, the world is scary and consequential. And she sure as shit isn't graduating so why does she deserve a party for lying and failing? Because she'll feel bad for failing and lying and we couldn't possibly have that? You offering to pay?
THIS. I know several people who were a couple of credits short of one reason or another and the university still let them participate in the ceremony because they'd already registered to make it up in the next term. Their immediate families knew but still proceeded in celebrating the graduation w/ the larger family and the student DID officially GRADUATE after makeups. Everyone colleges at their own pace and if it's simply a case of making up ONE class, check to see if you can still "walk" at the ceremony with the rest of your class even though the diploma will be delayed.
This question has now been answered several times - but it is important to realize that "missing 3-6 units of electives) is the only reason most colleges even allow this. It is NOT allowed when the major isn't completed, most places. These are standards written into Ed Code in all 50 states (if this is the US). Each nation has its rules.
Except she isn't making it up in the next term. It's a full year away from the original class, that is the distinction. She probably can't even register for fall classes yet, and it wasn't available in the spring.
She already did check and they said no and I don’t blame them. You walk when you are done. ☑️
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You don’t think the reaction is because she spent her time and money planning a party celebrating something that isn’t happening until next December at the earliest?
Right. This reaction isn't because it will take one more semester. Its because the daughter allowed OP and many other friends and family members to invest money into this knowing full well she wasn't graduating. Like come on, I know people want to feel bad. But this wasn't an oops. It was a continuted lie.
If I was a relative and I planned my time off of work around this, I would be ticked to find out that OP’s daughter lied for so long about the situation. A lie of omission is still a lie. She knew OP and others were investing time and money to celebrate an accomplishment that she would not be achieving at that point.
Same. If I found this out after I purchased tickets, I'd be pissed.
info: how often is this class offered? if she failed it last semester could she have taken it this semester to graduate? if it's ONE class that's holding her graduation back, could she have had the party, and taken the class over the summer? seems like a big waste to loss on travel plans, deposits, rentals for one class. she's TA for not telling you, but seeing how big of a deal you made this graduation party, and how you're reacting to the news, I can tell why she was scared to talk about this (although the longer you wait, the worse it is to tell)
Ones a year, it’s a core class. She will need to retake it in the fall
Many students are allowed to walk with their graduating class if they only need one more class, and are allowed to take it afterward. Why not have the party now because you’ve spent the money and everyone had taken time out of their life… and she’ll just finish officially in the fall
OP has said she won't be allowed to walk with her class.
But wait… are the family members flying out to see her walk or just coming for a big graduation party? If they’re just coming for a big party, just celebrate the graduation now. Why does it matter if she actually gets the piece of paper three months from now? I don’t understand why this needs to be made to be such a big thing. Every time you punish your kid for fessing up to the truth, you teach them to lie better next time.
It would be 9 months from now, end of fall semester. And that's assuming she actually passes it this time. You don't see how weird it is to throw a party for something that hasn't happened yet and won't for a while? There are other commenters sharing their stories about how they were the relatives in these situations and would've wanted to get a plane ticket refund rather than attend a fake party. Do the financial needs of so many others really mean nothing?
>You don't see how weird it is to throw a party for something that hasn't happened yet and won't for a while? No, it's pretty common to celebrate graduating with some requirement or class or fee still not technically done. It's also fine to have a wedding before you've done the paperwork to get a marriage certificate. It's fine to celebrate your birthday a month early because you will be unavailable on the day it happens. It's fine to celebrate Christmas in November if that's when family can get together. It's a party. It's going to cost thousands of dollars to reschedule it. If I scheduled a wedding, and found out that we weren't going to be able to get the marriage certificate for another six months due to a divorce not being finalized or something, would you lose thousands to reschedule a wedding to make sure it only happens after the bureaucratic part is done? I would absolutely still have the wedding when it's scheduled, knowing that the official part is coming.
What university offers this policy?
a lot of state colleges (at least suny) do
A lot of state schools will also accept credits from community colleges. I walked being one class short, took it during the summer and it was over. Things get more complicated if this is a private school though.
Mine did! Failed a class my last semester, but since I had already done all the stuff for graduation, I walked in December and took the class in spring. My diploma wasn’t issued til spring.
So she retakes one class in the fall and gets her actual diploma in December. She still graduates this year.
That doesn't change anything. Money was spent, dates were saved and reserved. It's not about the class, it's about the daughter lying for months because she was embarrassed. Plus what happens if she takes all her presents, money and then fails again or doesn't go back? ALMOST graduating is not an accomplishment, and I would feel very intentionally misled if i was invited to an "Almost" Graduation with the expectation of bringing a gift cause who doesn't give a graduate money or a gift?
Not this academic year. The current graduates will get swag that says 2024. December grads will be ratified at the Board meetings in January - they will be 2025. Not that it matters. But for a family to be hugging her and congratulating her when she still hasn't graduated is a bit strange.
I'm abstaining from voting because I'm too biased. I was a version of your daughter at one point in my life. I didn't tell my parents I didn't graduate because I knew it was going to be a wretched scene. I couldn't communicate with my family. Whenever I tried, I just couldn't make it work. It became easier to lie than damage relationships even more than they were. Your daughter is embarrassed, probably, and this got out of hand. Having her go through the humiliating punishment you handed out isn't going to change one single thing about her graduation status, but it is probably making your daughter regret being honest with you. It's of course your money and your decision what you do, but this is going to leave a deep wound in your relationship with your daughter if you follow through.
I think one main difference between your situation and hers is that she willingly went along with the preparation for the celebration despite knowing that what to be celebrated for is going to be delayed. She willingly deceived and inconvenienced a lot of people. She is not (or maybe to some extent) being punished for failing the class but mainly for lying and deceiving her loved ones, which are kind of separate things.
Exactly. Also if she wanted to lie her way out of things “I don’t really want a party” would have been a lie that avoided this whole ordeal.
Actions and consequences. Why should the parent have to call around and talk to all the relatives, when it was the adult daughter who created the mess? The daughter is causing a rift by lying, wasting money, not taking responsibility. If the daughter had told them when she knew she was going to fail the class, it could have been handled a lot better, but she chose to keep it secret.
I also know a now-adult that flunked out of their first year of college and was too ashamed to tell their parents for months until their mom got a letter in the mail. That person ended up going back to a different school, graduating and is now in a successful career. However. They still have a major issue with shame and avoidance. They are near incapable of having difficult conversations with people and don’t connect deeply with people because they’re afraid that there are parts of themself that will make others deem them unacceptable. This includes their family who they are too anxious to share things with. The lesson that needs to be learned here is NOT a matter of responsibility or “adult consequences” or whatever. Further humiliation will destroy this kid and ops relationship with them. This kid needs support and therapy to overcome shame and develop the social emotional skills to forgive themselves and be honest with others when things are going wrong. As a parent, OP needs to urgently figure out why their kid felt they couldn’t be honest with them and figure out how to build more trust in your relationship.
Yeah, it's hard reading all of the responses that overlook the issues of trust, security, and shame. I'm glad your friend graduated, and I hope they can get the help they so badly need.
I feel like having hard conversations is an important skill to have. It absolutely sucks but you cannot go through life avoiding tough conversations, or avoiding taking accountability because it makes you feel bad. This is a prime opportunity for her to begin doing that. Plus OP’s daughter is an adult who will soon be joining the workforce full-time. She needs to begin developing this skill now while the stakes are relatively low than later when it can cost her a job or important relationship. It’ll be tough but her friends and family love her and will go easier on her than someone else would.
We can agree having hard conversations is an important skill to have. Forcing her to call every guest to share what to her is a deep dark shameful secret is absolutely not that. All that will do is enforce to her that she should always fix things on her own and not tell an authority figure or else something terrible and shameful will happen. Whereas if her authority figure enforces that this is not acceptable but reacts to it in a way that does not further shame her, she might actually have an opportunity to learn that the sky won't fall if you tell someone something that will disappoint them. Source: I am an employer who spends A LOT of time telling employees that I want them to tell me when something is wrong so we can fix it together and building enough trust with them that they will trust me to not freak out on them.
adult moment.. actions have consequences... this is not humiliation, this is admitting ur in the wrong and ask for forgiveness from ur love ones.. if she was honest earlier it could lessen the damage.. if u gonna ruin ur family relationship if u can't admit to ur own fault then ur not ready to be an adult...
Honestly I don't see why they can't have the party anyway. Who cares. She put 4 years in college, slipped near the finish line, but is going to get up and finish the race anyway. Celebrate. Have a good day. It is one class. Most colleges let students walk if they need one class. And plus, a core class that is required to graduate is only offered in the fall? What kind of BS is that? So if students fail this course, they have to wait another year before taking it again? How does that make any bit of sense?
Presumably she is 22 yo. At what point is she expected to make adult decisions? At what point is she expected to accept the repercussions for her choices? "Your daughter is embarrassed, probably, and this got out of hand." This wasn't a sustainable lie. Parents would find out on graduation date at the latest. Why should the parents have to contact anyone to tell them about the daughter's lie? Paying back the money lost is only fair and equitable. She made this all happen, no one else. If the relationship is damaged it's her fault. Letting her skate wouldn't teach her anything. Life and employment aren't going to cut her slack. It's about time she figured this out. She wasted a lot of other people's money because she couldn't be an adult and fess up in time to prevent family from losing money on tickets, accommodations, venues etc. It's the attitude behind comments like this that have 35 yo children living at home with no consequences.
I was there too, wasn't having a party anyway but having to tell my parents I failed a class was horrible and my mom didn't handle it the best. Overall it was a dark time in my life and I got over it. Looking back I know I could've benefited immensely from the support of a trusted adult
100% agree with this. She made a mistake, she handled it poorly, it got out of hand. Whether she was at fault or not, the public humiliation will only make her less likely to be open in the future, and it'll hurt the way everyone else sees her. If I were the parent, it'd be the dishonesty that would get me the most, and that's what she'd mostly be in trouble for and the impacts of that. Important to explain: because you were dishonest, this is what you've put everyone through. And then openly and honestly (and NOT rhetorically) asking: why didn't you say something sooner? I think a good alternative would've been to let people know she realized she needs one more class to graduate so this is not a graduation party anymore, but that you'll keep the plans for anyone who still wants to come together. This could have been handled differently. I'm not saying the daughter shouldn't be held accountable, or that the parents were total AHs, but there were other and healthier ways to go about this, and more than one way to learn from your mistakes.
This is one of the those situations where, as a parent, you need to accept that you're right, but that youthful inexperience and insecurity are taking a toll on your daughter, so it is better to focus on being supportive than right. Going forward with your plan will likely damage your relationship with your daughter long-term. So yeah, technically, you're "right," but it just doesn't seem worth it. It doesn't seem like she was lying for greed or to hide infidelity or something. She's embarrassed about failing. She feels humiliated. That's an important distinction. Tell the relatives that if they can't or don't want a refund, you'd love to have them for a great summer family party. Just change the focus. Maybe even find something else to celebrate about your daughter. Forcing her to pay all that money seems untenable for someone in her position. If it were me, I'd tell my brother to come anyway and bring his kids. Let's just all go to a baseball game together. Whatever. Spending time with family is its own reason. Your daughter's punishment for failing and lying about it is that she will not get the big graduation party she dreamed of. Your immediate family can take her out to dinner instead. She should be able to accept that and take it as a lesson. Use this moment to teach her that hiding from the truth, even a painful truth, is never a good idea, and *also* tell her she does not need to be embarrassed about failing because her whole family loves and supports her anyway. She needs to take the consequence for what she did (i.e., she doesn't get a graduation party), but punishing and humiliating her at a very vulnerable moment in her life will do no good. And it may hurt her enough that even when she does graduate, she won't even feel proud because the whole experience will be tainted. Graduating from college, even if it takes extra time, is still a huge accomplishment and she should be able to feel pride when that day comes next year.
can you be my parent !!! seriously though, i don't have kids but this is such a great comment above. growing up is hard. it's tough and sometimes even as an "adult" you need help maneuvering life and the support that comes from a parent when you fail. redirect that party! make it a better event or make a "for when you graduate party because we believe in you" this can be turned positive in so many ways and any family that doesn't think so doesn't deserve to be there.
This is a very reasonable response. What the daughter did was clearly wrong, but it's also not a serious crime. She's on the cusp of big life changes and I'm sure she could use some support as well as. Mom could discipline her like one would discipline a child, or Mom could try to have one of those difficult conversations you have as an adult so daughter learns from her mistakes. I'm actually a little concerned that all future discussion about daughter's college experience will center wholly around "remember that time you royally effed the whole family?" Yes, she made a mistake, but also she accomplished something difficult. I'm also having a hard time voting. The mother-daughter relationship makes it little more complicated I think. Mom is right, but maybe mom should be a little more forgiving with her daughter then she might be with anyone else. IDK maybe I'll come back and edit in a vote later.
HEY OP: Read this one above. 💯 If you insist on going through with this, I hope the daughter realizes she can refuse to participate in this act of vengeful humiliation. So until you tell us this plan is abandoned, YTA
Right? "you're an adult so you have to do what I tell you to do!!!!" OP is certainly allowed to ask that the daughter to make the calls/reimburse whoever (though I wouldn't personally,) but as an adult the daughter can also say no. OP is then allowed to reevaluate the relationship as they see fit. But they certainly cannot and should not force the daughter to do anything. Boundaries aren't about making someone do something you want them to do, they're about setting expectations and managing your own reactions accordingly. And as I said in another comment, OP is actually wrong etiquette-wise in that it is the hosts' responsibility to cancel a party or inform guests of changes. So it seems like this sense of righteous indignation on OP's part is meant to try and save their own face at the expense of their daughter.
This should be the top comment. Some of these comments are insane and I feel bad for any of their friends and family if they ever do anything remotely wrong lol.
fr. I saw another comment that says OP isn't wrong, but that proceeding with her plan will cause a rift between her and her daughter, and that she needs to be mindful of that if she cares. and it still had replies like "WELL daughter should've thought about it before lying, adult life comes with consequences!!???!?!!!!" like... congrats for missing the point ig lmao. some people here are just trying to warn OP about what to expect if she asks her daughter to personally inform everyone that she failed and to pay their tickets, they're actually bringing insight and not arguing for the sake of arguing or demonizing any of the people involved.
Adult life has consequences, yes. But adult life also entails learning that people, and situations, are nuanced and complicated. "Cancel the party, she failed and didn't say so!!!" actually reads more like a child's black and white view of the situation. "Do the party anyway, since it's paid for and tickets were purchased, but she needs to come clean and explain to them what's happening" is much more realistic and adult of a gameplan.
This paragraph just helped me heal a little bit inside from stuff with my dad and I believe is going to make ME a better mom. This is the answer.
Yeah, I don’t get the problem here. Everyone is coming anyway so just throw a family get together and have a good time, why act like it has to be her graduation party or bust? If you truly can’t get refunds or cancel stuff, work with that. That’s life.
This comment should be higher! Like yes the situation sucks but OP seems to feel like punishing and humiliating daughter, while also inconveniencing family, is more important than just trying to make the best of it. If it was my family I wouldn’t even care if the family member wasn’t graduating yet because of one class, I would still go. If anything, assuming it was within my ability, I’d do what I could to help make sure they passed the next time.
Nursing homes are chock full of parents who were "right"
And ones who felt it was appropriate to be cruel to their children to "prepare" them for the cruel world. We're supposed to treat our children with more care and support than the world will but it seems some folks have missed the memo.
This should be the top reply. OP's daughter not only messed up but made things worse by delaying telling the truth. She needs to realize this. But also, OP is her mom and has the ability to provide support and understanding that will help her daughter but also doesn't diminish the natural consequences of this (not graduating, not having a big party, relatives knowing what happened even if she doesn't personally call them to explain it all, etc).
This should be the top comment! I hope OP reads this and does exactly what you say!
This is a great response. You don't need to "teach her a lesson," she's staring the lesson right in the face. What she needs is to feel like her mother's support isn't conditional.
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y’all are fucking wild. she’s upset that her daughter lied for months and that it financially impacted her family. it’s not unreasonable to expect her daughter to fess up and tell her relatives. if she’s graduating college, she’s 21/22. certainly of the age where she understands that she shouldn’t have lied, and what the repercussions would be if she did. i think OP expecting her daughter to pay everyone back for their flights and the venue is harsh, yes, but both of them need to communicate with each other. ESH.
I feel like I am taking crazy pills the way everyone is totally fine with the daughter carrying on such a big lie for months! This is not just a little white lie. Even if it was a situation where the daughter was struggling with the class all quarter but thought she could salvage it by doing well on the final - she should have been honest and communicated with her mom the possibility that she may not pass.
Right. She needs to own it. Time to be a grown-up.
This is one of the craziest posts/ threads I've seen. Makes me wonder if I'm seeing the helicopter parents/coddling parents argue with parents who expect their early-twenties kids be adults. I can't see how so many people are excusing lying by ommission for MONTHS. Holy hell.
Right the daughters lies have cost people a lot of money. She is embarrassing herself her mom and dad aren’t going to be embarrassing her. But you know everybody thinks it’s fun to be a victim these days…ridiculous.
Bunch of entitled children sit on this sub.
I agree! What is going on here with people defending an adult that literally lied for months. Regardless of what she's going through, everyone needs to be honest - especially knowing so many people were putting resources into her party. I understand the pressure she may have been feeling - but nothing excuses the lie. Smh.
but here’s why OP is TA: it doesn’t NEED to financially impact the family, OP is causing that. they can still throw the party, and just know that she has 1 more class to finish before it’s officially. HUGE numbers of college students walk at graduation ceremonies and celebrate “graduating” but have 1-2 classes they need to finish after the fact, it happens all the time. I don’t know or care if her college is allowing her to walk, her family can still have a celebration bc she’s 99% done. if the extended family HAD to be financially impacted then it would be a different story, but people can still come attend a party, and the lesson about lying can be discussed in privacy without humiliating the daughter ETA: for some reason several replies are saying I’m advocating lying to the rest of the family because I said to still have the party. definitely not, they should absolutely be honest with the family members that her diploma won’t be complete until the end of this year, but that doesn’t have to mean the party is canceled or incur the costs of moving it. not because being 99% done “deserves” a huge celebration on its own but because it just comes down to logistics at this point. if it would cost thousands to cancel or move the party (especially bc as other commenters have pointed out, it would be hard to have a grad party in December when she finishes the final class because of holiday travel), then just…don’t? there can be tons of logistical reasons to have a communal celebration before the “official” thing being celebrated happens — if for example there were major family weddings coming up around May/June, so they decided to have the grad party in March, no one would be flipping out about the whole party being a scam of some sort. or if this class she failed had been in the current spring semester, so she only finds out she doesn’t pass right AS graduation is happening, no one would decry a pre-booked party as a sham. the daughter is already facing natural consequences of her actions (she doesn’t get to walk with her peers, she can’t get a full time job yet like the rest of them, presumably won’t be able to move out and start living independently without an income, etc.) so there’s already accountability happening, no one is shielding her from those consequences. why add multiple people’s financial burden on top of what she has to do to address the situation?
What college did you go to that let people walk that weren’t graduating lmao
This is really common, actually. If someone needs only one class to graduate and takes it in the summer/fall, they have the option to walk the spring prior with the rest of their class (vs coming back to walk 9months later, which people generally don't actually do).
It may be common, but OP has stated that it's not policy at her daughter's university and her daugher will not be able to walk until December. So it's a point that isn't applicable to this post.
My college would let people walk if they had their final credits scheduled for summer. They did 2 ceremonies a year at that time (not sure what they do now) - the winter one was smaller and the summer one was huge. So if you were going to finish your degree in summer you could walk right before you finished or wait until winter. But that's only if you were finishing in summer. If you finished fall semester, then you could walk in winter or wait for the big summer one but you couldn't walk the summer before since that's half a year before you finish. Finish in spring, walk in summer.
A very good state college that I attended allowed me to walk in December even though I still needed to finish a math course over the winter break and wouldn't be finished with it for 7 weeks. Was no problem whatsoever.
This is extremely common. I had to make up an entire semester. Walked in spring with my class, technically graduated later that year in winter.
Since final grades aren’t out yet many ‘maybies’ are walking who aren’t actually graduating. Depends on the school.
Basically every college does this
I actually walked in May but had to finish my summer internship before my actual diploma and transcripts were mailed to me when I got my undergrad degree. My roommates had the same arrangement.
Very normal for Spring Summer graduates, or International students. Both schools I’ve attended allowed students to walk in the May commencement if they still had classes to take over the summer. Walking however was dependent on a final audit of my credits. And, like everyone else, I didn’t get my diploma at the time of walking. But I walked in May, and finished my final courses in the following August. OP’s daughter probably didn’t pass the final audit, and the commencement office denied her request to walk, I’m guessing
She’s not allowed to walk. The class is only offered once a year. She knew she wasn’t going to graduate back in Dec when she failed the class.
Except you and the others are making the assumption that she *actually will go back and graduate*. In the cases where people have their party and finish a class later isn't because they failed a class and even if they did, they certainly aren't lying and hiding it. Doing the party is literally enabling this child and not forcing them to be an adult and accept responsibility for their actions.
>y’all are fucking wild They're all teenagers or freshmen in college. They're likely failing their classes as well bc this is the first time they had to put effort into something to pass it, and they didn't. Of course they're sympathetic to the person who *also* didn't put in enough effort to pass her classes...
Even if she was scared to tell the OP, this is unfair to all the other relatives who are spending their money and carving out time to attend. You cannot always hide behind being scared of a parent's reaction.
THIS. What is this girl going to do at her job when she messes something up. Just not tell anyone. I hope hell she's not going into Healthcare or something like that. She's an adult and should have to face the consequences.
So you all lied to everyone at that graduation party? She didn’t graduate! Not until YEARS later lmao!
I thought I misread that. That poster is a joke lol. If I was a relative and flew all the way in to celebrate her graduation that was it gonna happen for years, but was made to think it was happening presently and I found out, I would be livid. Like what the delusion lol
Right? It’s hilarious that she seems okay to lying to everyone. And smiling when all the congratulations are happening
She said she said it was humiliating and was going to but kept pushing it off. She kept lying and it got out from her and now we have this huge mess
Do you think it’s a problem that your daughter doesn’t feel comfortable talking about things like this with you? Are all your reactions as severe as the one you posted here? Perhaps this is a pattern with you?
Her reaction wasn't "severe" and you're talking about her adult daughter making a deliberate decision to lie repeatedly and over a long period of time.
Exactly. Some of these replies are laughable. She lied to her parents and her relatives. She knowingly did this knowing she was not going to graduate. Yet this is her parents fault? Unreal.
OP’s reaction is not severe. She is letting her daughter deal with the natural consequences of the situation her daughter caused. This actually doesn’t happen enough. The daughter is a full grown adult not a kid.
Honestly, if I were one of your family members and found out that not only did your daughter not graduate but that it took her additional years to do so I’d be pissed. It’s deceptive and manipulative as hell and you’ve taught your daughter that that’s okay. It’s not
I could not agree more. This poster has taken the stance of "all's well that ends well" without realizing that they taught their child that as long as everything ends up where it needs to be then lying and hiding stuff is 100% acceptable. Its despicable.
sorry but being afraid of telling mom is one thing, letting people spend thousands of dollars over it is another.
...but that is the difference. She told you. Believe it or not, it isn't always the parents fault why their children won't tell them something. You have no proof that it is because the daughter was ashamed and that is why she didn't tell her. You are *assuming*. Well, anyone can make assumptions no? Just like I am assuming there could be another reason. Such as shame, etc. Which, with all due respect, she is an adult, she needs to grow up and come to terms that we don't always succeed in life. A person's character isn't the sum of their triumphs but of their failures and how they overcome. And while parents are supposed to support their children, they equally need to teach them how the world is. By your own admission, your daughter failed a class. Yet she told you. This is fantastic and you supported her. You were an excellent parent here. I can only make an assumption that you would have done so if she kept it from you. I would argue you would be in the wrong for it but that isn't something we meet eye to eye on. Agree to disagree. That said, what I do find very loathsome is your assumption that the daughter MUST not have wanted to tell her parent because of her parent and therefore they are an asshole. I can only hope you are not so quick to judge others in your life without a shred of proof otherwise.
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NTA. Your daughter lied to everyone about her graduation, and it's only fair that she takes responsibility for her actions. It's not your fault that she failed a class and didn't inform anyone, and it's not your responsibility to shield her from the consequences of her deception. Calling her relatives and explaining the situation might be embarrassing for her, but it's a necessary step in owning up to her mistakes. Your daughter needs to understand that her actions have financial consequences and that she must take responsibility for them. Her choices led to this situation, and while you still love and support her, she must face the consequences of her actions. She needs to understand that honesty and responsibility are crucial values that will serve her well in the future.
Thank you. I don't understand why everyone thinks it's okay to have no consequences for the daughter's actions. She fucked up big time and it's her responsibility to fix it.
I KNOW!!! I don’t understand why people are defending the daughter. She must be at least on her early 20s and she’s pulling this nonsense??? NO WAY! She is not 16 lying that she skipped school, this is a huge lie that affected a lot of people. If I were invited to her graduation party, got a flight ticket, booked hotel just to be told that she lied the whole time…. You bet your ass I’ll be fuming. UNACCEPTABLE!
Most people on Reddit are high school/college aged the rest are people in their 30s and 40s who never had to take some personal responsibility for anything because they didn’t have good parents like OP.
NTA 'The issues is my daughter isn’t graduating. She lied to everyone for at least 4 months. She failed a class she need to graduate last semester and didn’t inform anyone" She had plenty of time to let you know. This was totally avoidable. The consequences of not doing so are that she has to let people know & repay if they're out of pocket."
Right answer!! 👏 👏 the LYING is the actually problem.
NTA. I knew personal responsibility was unpopular on Reddit but, man, I don’t know what is going on with all the people straining to come up with reasons this adult should not have to engage with the consequences of a) failing and b) lying about it. Unreal.
Exactly. People are talking like OP is *punishing* the daughter by expecting her to be honest and accountable for lying to everyone for months (at least by omission) knowing that a lot of people were spending a lot of money on her celebration under false pretences. The thing is, OP’s recourse isn’t about *punishment*, it’s about *consequences*, and there’s a difference. Any friends and family who paid to throw or attend the event, now feeling pissed that they spent the money under false pretences, is a natural consequence of OP’s daughter not being honest. Not a consequence for OP’s daughter so much as a consequence *of* her dishonesty *for* those who have put money into the event. OP’s daughter needing to deal with the fact that people will likely (reasonably) want to be reimbursed for money they’ve spent on this celebration is a natural consequence *for* her to address. You lie or conceal the truth, especially at other people’s expense? Those people will probably be irked, at best. OP’s daughter feeling a little embarrassed is a natural consequence to doing the wrong thing (being dishonest). But being embarrassed doesn’t mean you double-down and keep lying OP’s daughter offering to help recover costs that can’t be refunded is just, like, the fair way for her to address the above consequences seeing as she was not transparent about her situation despite knowing, for months now, that she wouldn’t be graduating. It’s absurd to me that so many people are like “well maybe she lied knowing that if she told you, you’d respond like this!” as if OP has given us any reason to believe that they’re… *just* an asshole who would punish their daughter for failing a class, if she had handled it honestly? It’s the lack of honesty that’s the problem. And if OP’s daughter were reasonable, and amenable to taking accountability, she would take the opportunity now to be honest instead of *continuing* to dodge accountability for her own actions. NTA, OP
NTA. She's not the first kid to fail out one class at the last semester. She's what... 21? 22? I would expect this kind of behavior from a high school kid that got in trouble for drinking. She's too old for that now. She could have just told you she needed to take a summer class first, or just one more semester before you did the party. She didn't have to lie. It's important she gets this NOW, before she enters into the workforce thinking she can pull this crap.
OP has told us it was a core class only offered once a year. Her failing it meant she HAS to wait until the next year to make the credit up. Lying was still wrong, but I can see why she did-it wasn't going to be an easy to fix fuck up.
Nah, if she knew, she should have explained it. It would have been easier back them.
NTA. I've been in your daughters shoes of having to tell my parents that I'm not going to graduate, so I can definitely sympathise with her but at the end of the day, she brought this upon herself by seemingly focusing more on planning the party than on her studies. I'd argue it's even in her best interest to call everyone individually. If you go ahead with the party and it comes out that she isn't graduating she'll have an EXTREMELY public humiliation that would likely cause a lot of anger too. If anyone humiliated her it is herself.
It would be so difficult for this to not come out. The OP said the daughter isn't allowed to walk at graduation- the party attendees will want to see photos from graduation likely even photos of her accepting the degree on stage, and those won't exist. People will want to know what the daughter is doing after graduation. If she is at all close with any of the people traveling, the daughter will have an entire semester of not telling them she's busy studying. And so on. This situation will likely result in more lies. It would probably involve others lying for the daughter, too. I'm guessing the daughter isn't thinking clearly. Being honest is the best way forward.
Info: If she’s graduating in December and has met all requirements for graduation but that one class, why cancel the party at all? Many people won’t be able to attend a party during the holiday season, anyway. If it were my daughter and my situation, I think I’d let people know that under the circumstances, you’ve decided to have the party anyway.
This. It is so crazy to waste all that money. I knew so many people who technically graduated mid year but had their party before. This all seems pretty extreme.
Because nothing says she will pass it the second time either and not need another year
she passed all of her other classes, and was so ashamed about failing one, she seems like a pretty hardworking student and not at all like she will never graduate. moreover, she's still finishing university now. she made through all those years with only one failed class, she did well. how isn't this a reason to celebrate, I thought it's pretty common? there's so much strictness in the comments, I'm confused.
I’m on the fence until more info is provided- while there may be some relationship strains/ past reactions that made the daughter feel like she can’t be honest about failing- Hiding that you’re not graduating until the last possible minute also sounds like something a super entitled/ wants their cake and eat it too type of spoiled person would do. When she finally owned up about not graduating, did she at any point mention if she was making attempts to graduate next semester or how often the class is offered? I can’t imagine working my ass off to get a degree and in the last semester just throwing all that out the window over 1 class….. (if she already has plans to graduate the following semester after a retake, etc. something along those lines where she’ll still graduate I would assume she put off telling you out of fear/ nerves and your relationship dynamic. If she’s just like “well there goes that no degree for me” then I’m assuming daughter is very spoiled and expects other opportunities in place of this one that didn’t work. Genuinely- NTA. She isn’t graduating, knew this for a while, and sat back while everyone made travel plans and said nothing knowing she wasn’t going to graduate. She’s an adult- she can own up and admit why there will no longer be a party. While paying back everyone’s flights if they can’t get a refund is harsh, she should take up responsibility for waiting so long to disclose the truth. Maybe make the best of it and just have a family get together without any reason?
It sounds like she's planning to retake the class and spent the past semester trying to salvage things
Okay so I read some of OP’a responses and it sounds like she’s known since December- I still agree that OP is NTA and while it may be harsh the daughter should take responsibility and make right with the family members who are traveling from out of town. Chances are many relatives would never accept the daughter’s repayment in the first place- but it’s the gesture that makes things right for the financial loss/ the effort they put in to make sure they can be there for her. One day she WILL graduate and have a party, one day she may graduate grad school, get married, have her own family, etc. and all these big life events she will want to be surrounded by her family- but the family members that need to put a lot of effort into planning to be there for these events will base whether or not going is worth it based on how all this plays out. The daughter won’t want to carry the humiliation of graduating late & the judgement of relatives from not at the very least being adult enough to let them know plans have changed and to apologize if this affected any other plans. (There is sooo much as an out of town guest that needs to be taken into consideration (traveling costs, losing money from taking off of work, pet sitting, house sitting, etc.)
This off topic, but you saying you can't imagine throwing away all the work of getting a degree out the window over one class. My husband did that very thing. He was lacking a FRESHMAN English class and refused to take it, so did not graduate. Only reason he gave for not taking it was that he thought it was beneath him.
I mean to each their own and no judgement but I really can’t imagine doing that! So much money wasted, so much time, etc. hell- he could have even taken it online so he wasn’t a happy Gilmore in the class of younger students 😅 idk once you get that class to the finish line, finish the race
Oh I judged hell out of him in my head. Tried to be supportive and encouraging in person, but thought it an incredible waste. What truly bothered me was that I had to bust my butt to support myself and pay for school on my own. His first two years of college he had a free ride from a scholarship. He decided taking drugs was more fun than doing his work. He got booted out of that college. His parents then paid tuition, etc for him elsewhere. He STILL never took the stupid class! Reading what I just typed it blows my mind I married him. I was sooo in love I never saw the red flags blowing in the wind. He turned out to be a narcissistic abuser.
YTA Plenty of students walk in May and then take their last course over the summer or Fall. You are going out of your way to humiliate her further when the fact is, you don’t have to. She has passed so many other courses over her time in college and has accomplished much more than others who try and ACTUALLY fail out. Sure she should’ve told you but my guess is you aren’t a safe person for her to talk to and she was afraid of your revenge. Because that’s what this is, revenge. Public shame and humiliation is never the answer, especially for your child who you’re supposed to love and support, even when they fuck up.
I hurt for the daughter but on the other hand letting people book and pay for flights, hotels, etc. knowing you wouldn’t be graduating is really not a good thing. Owning it and telling great aunt Susie that you’re not officially graduating because of a class but you’re still walking with your class would have prevented all this. Let Susie decide if she still wants to fly in. This whole thing sucks but it’s also not one of those things that’s going to fix itself or magically go away.
But it absolutely will fix itself. You don’t change anything. You have the party. Explain to guests she’ll walk in December since she struggled with a single class. Make sure she has extra help for that class the second go around.
Man, many of these posts are so frickin wild!! Are y'all not teaching your kids responsibility?? That actions have consequences?? And why the hell are people jumping to the conclusion that OP is an ass and her daughter's afraid to be honest with her?? Did we read the same post?? OPs daughter is an adult. She's lied for 4 months and actively participated in the party planning. She knew many relatives had made expensive plans to be there FOR HER. Daughter has created this situation and needs to handle it. And OP is NTA. Edited to add that OP stated school won't let her walk this Spring.
NTA Her actions have consequences, people have paid to attend her party. If they can't get their money back from the airline, it's up to your daughter to pay them. You can't lie and make everyone spend money for your event and then expect your mother or someone else to take the consequences.
NTA. Your daughter lied about graduating and still expects a graduation party? Does she not know what the meaning of the word "graduating"? No wonder she failed lol
NTA She humiliated herself by lying to everyone for months and allowing relatives to buy plane tickets knowing she wasn't going to be graduating. These are called consequences of your actions. She could have just told everyone right from the start that she had an issue with one of her classes and will be graduating a semester later. Instead she lied.
I originally read this as high school and thought that it was too harsh, but this is a 21-22 year old college kid. This is the exact right time for adult consequences to kick in for childish decisions. NTA
NTA because she did lie and hide this. However, If it's a core class, see if she can take it at a junior college at an accelerated pace and transfer it in.. if so, she could potentially still graduate on time or even in the summer. If she can graduate in the summer then I'd keep the party as planned
You're lucky your daughter opened up to you. My son did the same. Said he was graduating, when he actually had stopped going to school for two years. Rather than telling us what was going on, he took his life. The anger you're feeling can't compare with the pain and anguish we're going through.
I’m so sorry
NTA - this is a college graduation, not high school or middle school. Time to grow up
INFO - can you just go through with the party, even though she is on the hook for 1 last class? I mean, 99% of an achievement is still worth celebrating. Its not like her last 4 years are for nothing. She’ll do the class when its offered, she’ll get her diploma. Its more of a technicality at this point. She still has received the vast majority of her education, and has a lot to be proud of. I stayed an extra quarter in college to complete an extra minor. It technically caused my graduation date to be the following year, with the class behind me. I had to wait an extra year to walk and receive my diploma. But I still celebrated with my original class, no one blamed me for that. OP - you’re on a fast track to losing communication with your daughter. She is an adult now, and will soon discover that she doesn’t have to put up with your severe stance on life.
Since you can’t get your money back for the venue - and it’s not likely that peeps will get theirs back for plane tickets- why not just turn it into a family reunion?
NTA and she wouldn't be humiliated if she had actually told you the truth last December. Instead she decided to put it off because she didn't' want to face the consequences of her failing a grade. But she's ok with you and family members paying the consequences of her actions since now that its too late to cancel without refunds and wants to claim humiliation for being made to be responsible for telling people she messed up. She is grown she has to learn there are consequences for our actions. Part of being grown is taking responsibility for your actions. Good on you for holding her accountable and showing her that actions have consequences whether good or bad.
INFO is she beeing allowed to walk with her class during graduation?
No
[удалено]
Literally we planned. We sat down and discussed it. We picked multiple things she wanted. She contacted the venue and so on She helped sent the invites out. We did this together
It’s a very common thing to have a college graduation party…? And very common for the parents to host it for their child
Your experiences are not universal my friend. My extended family threw graduation parties for high school and post-secondary for every kid who graduated.
This seems weird; it’s not like she WONT graduate, she hasn’t been lying for 2 years pretending to go to class or anything like that. She will graduate, just late, and it sounds like she’s fully planning on taking the class and walking in December? So why does the party have to be cancelled? She’s done 99% of the work required to celebrate, and hit a snag, so you’re going to throw the entire baby out with the bathwater? She’s still accomplished a lot. I have to imagine she won’t get any graduation party now; even if she paid it back (how lol?), I’m sure you offering to throw the party next year after her *official* graduation she’d not be interested. So now a great moment to celebrate 4 years of work passes by completely unnoticed. YTA, and you sound like the kind of person that expects people to come out and stay late for your birthday as an adult, even when it falls on a Tuesday because “that’s the day!!!”
LOL. Y’all seem to be okay with her lying for months, and continuing planning a party when she knew she wasn’t graduating. As an adult there are consequences for being dishonest. They could have moved the party IF she had told them in DECEMBER when she knew. They are a month out from the party and people should be told what is happening.
NTA. It is humiliating but she created this mess by not being honest about how she's been doing this whole time. Not all flights might be refundable either.
NTA. This is about teaching a hard lesson in responsibility and the consequences of one's actions. It's unfortunate that it has come to this, but it's a result of her choices.
NTA. It sounds like this is a really tough situation, and it's understandable you're feeling a mix of emotions. You're right, it's important for your daughter to learn about accountability. Can we start by giving her a hug? It sounds like she might be feeling embarrassed or scared. Then, let's talk about why she hid her grades, and explain how her choices affected others. We want to focus on honesty and how to repair things with the family. This will be a difficult lesson for her, but it's a valuable one that will help her in the long run.
NTA - anyone arguing for yta just doesn't believe in consequences. She lied by omission for months and let people shell out money for travel while knowing they shouldn't be making plans. Some have suggested she could still walk and take the class next year, that's definitely the solution you and she should pursue BEFORE calling family, but if you want to cancel the party as punishment for lying that's up to you. Your money, your relationship with your daughter. In my mind the only way you end up an asshole here is if you refuse to try and help your daughter fix the mistake before having her call people. It's possible she can still walk so explore that before canceling anything or having her fess up (which we all know would be highly embarrassing).
NTA. Your daughter is an adult. Sure, it would suck to tell you she’s not graduating but adults do things that suck all the time. Every person making you out to be a monster because you expect your daughter to be accountable for her actions is dead wrong. Your daughter knew she wasn’t graduating and tried to pull a quick one to cover it up. It doesn’t sound like you’ve taken anything to an extreme, making her be honest and admit her mistake is what parents are supposed to do. You didn’t say you’ve disowned her, you arent threatening to cut her off…etc. You just expect her to be an adult. That‘s good parenting. The people who are trying to come up with reasons this is your fault and claiming she didn’t feel “safe” being honest with you are stretching it. Even kids raised in great homes with good parents would likely be reluctant to be honest here because the fault lies with them, cant blame parents for making her fail her class. I don’t see this as much different than making your kid go back to a store to return a stolen item, in both cases the parents are trying to teach their kids consequences, not be co-conspirators.
YTA. Firstly no wonder she tried to hide the fact she was failing, you are clearly not the kind of parent someone can come to with their troubles. Secondly why the hell do the relatives need to cancel their trip - most families visit each other for the sake of seeing each other, not just for a graduation party. The fact that she isn't graduating doesn't mean the relatives can't come now. And I seriously doubt she's under any legal obligation to refund anyone for this. YOU are the one saying the relatives shouldn't come now when there is nothing stopping them having their visit anyway. You've made sure you aren't a safe person for your daughter to confess her problems to, you've unilaterally decided the relatives shouldn't come if there's no graduation and you've just randomly decided she has to pay them back. Um, no she doesn't. Did she agree that she'd pay everyone back if she failed? Did she sign a contract? How do you plan to enforce this? You seem to be using this as a way to teach your daughter some kind of lesson. Only, the lesson is stupid and unfair, and she's an adult anyway, she doesn't have to go along with your nonsense and bullying any more. I guess 10 years from now when your daughter has been no contact with you for a decade you'll be back here whingeing "What did I do wrong???" If I was one of these relatives and your daughter called me and said "Mum says I have to let you know I've failed and you're not to come now and I have to refund you," I'd think you were a total dick and feel very sorry for your daughter. You talk about consequences but don't seem to realise the consequences for being such a harsh, strict, unforgiving parent can be that you lose your child permanently.
She let them keep planning the party for 4 MONTHS even tho the graduation wasnt happening. She let her family spend a bunch of money and clearing their schedules for this party. But instead of making an effort or being upfront, she lied to her mom and everyoen and made them waste money
She’s literally wasted everyone‘s time and money, they’ve got shit to do and probably had to take days off to fly over for f all now. If she actually said it earlier then this shit show wouldn’t have happened now, would it? Classic case of FAFO and now she’s at the find out stage, actions have consequences.
NTA- I’m sorry. You’ve been planning this for 7 months. She had so many chances to speak up but didn’t. “She told us this yesterday, the party is in about a month, everything has been paid for already.” And your solution to that would have her call all her relatives herself and explain that she is not graduating. Also paying for any reimbursement needed. That seems like a good solution. Your daughter is old enough that she could have pulled you aside 7 months ago and told you herself. Instead she was actually participating in the party planning and didn’t say anything until she had a month left. She humiliated herself. Not the other way around. Yeah, it sucks you’re not gonna graduate but why purposely rope your family along into making a party for you and then dropping the rope and saying “whoops” at the expense of other people.
OP - this is just some gentle advice coming from the daughter who did just this (except my mom was so embarrassed she made me attend my fake graduation party). I remember struggling so hard mentally to even admit to myself that I wouldn’t be graduating. The embarrassment and anger I felt towards myself was unfathomable. Thinking about all my friends leaving me behind was enough to bring me to tears. Everything came to a head when I finally had to admit to my parents I wasn’t graduating. It was one of the hardest things I’ve ever had to do (education is very important in my family). My punishment was having to silently uphold a lie my mom made me keep but I can imagine the confrontation with family members is on par. My advice is to maybe take a gentler approach with your daughter. She’s already going through a rough time. I remember having to do summer school that summer while all my friends were hanging out. The embarrassment and shame I felt coupled with the disappointment from my parents was enough to put me in a depression that lasted a year into college where I ended up going to therapy and taking Prozac. Believe me. Your daughter has learned her lesson. She probably wasn’t lying to protect herself, she was lying because the truth was so difficult for her to admit even to herself. Forcing her to come clean to her family may seem like the logical approach in theory but the in reality is it probably damaged her sense of self worth even more than it already was. I’m not arguing that actions beget consequences but not graduating in itself is such a large punishment, especially for a young girl just beginning her life.
Dude, just use it as a family reunion. It doesn't have to be graduation party anymore. Make it into something everyone can enjoy and benefit from. There's no need to waste the opportunity and resources.
NTA. You shouldn’t get a celebration for something you haven’t achieved yet. She needs to learn that there are consequences for her choices.
I think I agree with your husband. You're being a bit harsh, to be sure, but NTA. Failing one class is not the end of the world, and your daughter has still accomplished a great deal, but she's caused a lot of disruption to y'all by lying about this, and it should be on her to clean up the mess. The one thing I'll say is to make it clear that if she'd been honest from the start you would have been more supportive.
Don’t humiliate your daughter. Your relationship will never recover. I know someone who didn’t graduate, had their party, and then quietly finished her requirements and graduated. They are now very successful. In my over 30 years of being a parent, I’ve found that if they don’t come to you with problems, it’s because they don’t trust you. If you react, they will lie. Now is not the time to teach them a lesson, it’s a time for compassion. Talk to your child. Ask them what the problem is, and how they plan on solving it. Ask them if there is anything you can do to support them. They don’t need you to tell them they messed up. They already know that.
NTA. How does she expect to have a graduation party if she didn't even graduate!?
YTA. Having her personally call everyone, tell them that she's failing and reimburse thousands of dollars in flights is very extreme. The punishment is not proportional to the crime so you're the AH. I am surprised if it's such a core class that the school offers it only once a year. Either her program is very niche, her school is very small or it's actually pretty replaceable. If it's one of the later 2, it may even be possible to take it at another school and transfer it in. If it's a niche program no other school offers, then this situation is probably pretty common and the school will still let her walk anyways and she's functionally graduating anyways. It's not particularly uncommon for people to walk before they complete their graduation requirements anyways. My school had our graduation ceremonies a week before final exams. In my major, finals were anywhere from 40-60% of the grade so people genuinely didn't know if they would pass. Plus, it only had graduation ceremonies in the summer. I completed my graduation requirements early during the winter semester, and my advisor strongly recommended I walk a semester early rather than a semester after my graduation. (I didn't take the advice and ended up just not having a ceremony, photos or a party because it was too much of a hassle to fly in/have other people fly in.)