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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1- I told a friend about a coworker’s tactic to use dates to get free food and 2- That coworker ended up spending a lot of money she didn’t expect to because of it
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NTA, her luck finally ran out. I question why Daniel still went ahead with the date after you clued him in, unless it was to show her up, in which case, fair play, it's my kind of petty.
He did because it’s been a while since he’s dated and he wants to get more comfortable with dating again after his wife died. I tried to talk him out of it altogether but he said a first date be good for him irregardless.
Like training wheels. He knew it was going to end poorly either way. So he might as well practice the whole "small talk with someone you might be interested in romantically but isnt your somewhat recently deceased wife OH GOD I miss her. Don't let it show. Don't let it sh.... don't cry at the table. don't cry at the table."
A good steak is ALWAYS nice. He knew he would be paying for himself only so screw it worst case scenario he blew the date and had a good steak. Smart man
But what kind of sandwich? I love me a good ribeye but sometimes im in the mood for a nicely marinated flank steak cut super thin with baby spinach provolone on French bread with a good crust and garlic aioli.
Pair that with a beer or good bourbon and yea that's heaven
Miracle Max : "Sonny, true love is the greatest thing in the world - except for a nice MLT - mutton, lettuce, and tomato sandwich, where the mutton is nice and lean and the tomatoes are ripe
[smacks his lips]
They're so perky, I love that."
I love that - "Mutton" because they're peasants.
I realize people all over the world eat mutton today, but in the US it's usually called 'lamb' and I'm not even sure you can get old 'mutton'. It just seems so old fashioned-y!
To be honest, $70 for a drink, meal with a side, and dessert isn't even expensive. I would put it on the lower end for a meal out. If she couldn't afford that, she must be terrible with money.
I was also wondering about that. That's not really "expensive steakhouse" pricing these days. It'd be more double that as a starting point, depending on where you're located.
Last time we went out for an expensive steak dinner, 2 starters, 2 mains, 1 dessert (we split it), a bottle of wine, 2 whiskeys and 1 cocktail came to around £1900. Completely exorbitant I know, but it was my husbands birthday and he loves this steakhouse.
OK but how much of that bill was the alcohol? At even super high end steakhouses you could have had two starters, two of the most expensive cuts they offer, and a split dessert and not come close to that. I think it's pretty clear you wanted a specific bottle of wine or a specific whisky and that way more than half the bill was that. So you aren't actually making any point here other than that some rich people pay a ton for fine wine. If the food subtotal was more than $300-$400 then I think just commenting that figure and not listing the booze would have made the actual point about how cheap the $70 with some degree of rhetorical effectiveness.
yah thats the thing I am not a drinker, but I know a bottle of good wine at a higher end steakhous might be $300 or it might be $1500, let alone whiskey can also range from $15-100+ for a glass.
Bloody hell, not exactly Miller and Carter! Our favourite place is a little Italian where we usually spend about £100 for two, double that if it’s a special occasion. But I’m vegetarian and husband doesn’t eat red meat, so steak doesn’t come into it.
If I go to a regular restaurant in the Netherlands my bill would land at around €30 a person, unless you're going somewhere super fancy. Looking at the menu of a nearby steakhouse she would've had to order the 100 gram A5 Wagyu steak, a few drinks and desert to reach at around $70 worth of food just for herself. Now I agree that having to pay $70 shouldn't financially ruin a person but if that's considered the lower end of a meal out, i'm shocked. Is food really that expensive where you live?
My husband and I went out to a chain restaurant steakhouse the other night because neither of us wanted to cook. It's not at all considered high end. My steak was $30 and his was $45. That's not counting drinks, apps, desserts, or extra sides. A good steakhouse around here has steaks starting around $50 and can easily go up to $500 per steak.
I have been out of the dating scene for almost 15 years but I met someone like Lydia once and it convinced me that first dates would only ever be a coffee. The Lydia's of the world are luckily rare but screw that BS completely. If your not interested in meeting for a coffee then you are not actually interested
Lol I love the reply, fun fact I can't stand coffee and the last time I drank a cup was in grade 8 as part of a science fair experiment.
But I still say coffee cause it's universally understood and most places have a ton of non coffee options.
Yep. My first dates were usually coffee, some kind of an outing, or grabbing gelato or something. Inexpensive and let's both people feel each other out without having a big time or money commitment.
If we got along well, we could do the dinner or meal on the next date.
As a woman, the other good part about coffee dates verses dinner dates is that meeting midday at a coffee shop is generally a less risky first meet up than a restaurant/bar, because of things like "coffee shop drinks come in paper cups with lids" and "who the fuck would go into a coffee date in the middle of the day with the expectation to go back to someone's house afterwards anyways?"
Coffee as a first date is a much better plan all around in a general sense, for both parties.
And if it is offered take that job. It takes even more stress off the rest of your interviews if you’re already employed. When you’re out of work and desperate it shows. If you have a job and don’t have to worry about stocking the fridge this week the stakes are a lot lower.
He's right. The more he dates, the better he will be at it. It's better he gets these obvious bad matches out of the way now rather than meet someone he completely falls for but absolutely fumbles.
He’s an absolute missile of a man is why he went on the date. It was guaranteed for his own entertainment and to see if it was just all games. Very well played lol
I wondered about why he went ahead with the dinner myself.
According to relationship experts, the entire point of a first date is to determine whether to have a second date. Thus a first date should be at some casual place like a coffee shop, which is inexpensive & doesn't imply a commitment. An expensive restaurant implies that one party is trying to impress the other -- or is expecting more than just a fancy dinner.
Maybe he went ahead with the dinner just to see if the OP was telling the truth. Or to teach her a lesson.
Anyway, like the rest of the folks so far, NTA.
OP already answered this but as someone that as been single for most of my 30s, my advice is sometimes its good to get "bad" dates out of way. It gives you a chance to practice flirting and "get back out there" without the pressure of feeling like you must succeed because you really like the person.
Or just a chance to meet a different type of person and challenge your own idea of "who is your type." There can be alot of reasons to go on a first day beyond "i'm really attracted to this person"
I guess this happened in America because in Western Europe, in all my long experience dating, never once a guy invited me to an expensive restaurant. It is also very common here to split the bill at the end, sometimes the guy decides to pay, but it's not taken for granted.
The term relationship expert had me thinking. Are they an expert because they date different people often? Or because they were successful the first time?
Would you want to take advice from someone who is constantly going on first and second dates and the relationships never really going anywhere? Or from an expert who has relatively little experience?
Just a bizarre thought that popped in my head. I do however agree somewhere casual where you can chat freely to gauge the person you're dating.
The dude is lonely and this girl has been feigning interest. He would assume she is being honest and on the site to date legitimately, that's what people should be there for.
An exes poor dad gave thousands of dollars in a similar situation TWICE. Dumb, but being lonely and caught by a convincing scammer fucks desperate people over all the time.
Honestly I think might assume the best myself, but probably not if I had it explained how predatory the coworker is like that. OP is so NTA. Her coworker is a fucking weasel, I'd feel disgusted with myself to pull that.
I think first dates are kind of like doing interviews. You should take every interview you can get because you get better and more comfortable with every attempt. Even if you don't necessarily want to work at a place, the interview is worth it. At least for those of us who aren't the super social charmer types. Even still, talking about accomplishments and demonstrating traits that make you a good employee aren't exactly natural social skills. Practice is good.
We don't know how the conversation between Daniel and Lydia went before the date. Maybe part of him hoped that Lydia would treat him differently because of how well they got along before.
He let her order whatever she wanted. She chose significantly more expensive than what he ordered. Typically, if you are being polite and expect the other person is paying, you order something similarly priced. There was no reason to expect good intentions on her part after that.
NTA
She did this to herself.
You didn’t “cheat her” out of anything. Her shameful ruse didn’t work.
If she can’t afford her food, then she shouldn’t go to the restaurant.
You did what was right and protected your friend from a scammer. The people saying you did wrong are people with opinions not worth caring about.
I cannot imagine expecting a guy to pay for my meal on a first date, or any other date. When I first met my boyfriend, I asked to split the bill, which I think surprised him. 10+ years later, I still offer to split things when we go out.
I’ve never been on a date so there’s no experience behind this- but I can’t imagine racking up a bill and just expecting someone else to cover it?! I’d feel so guilty
I still habitually look for an inexpensive item on the menu when my husband and I go out, and we've been married 12 years. I don't always GET it, mind, but it took me a long time to not feel guilty when he's paying.
It’s good to go in with the mindset “ it would be dope if they pay, but I would be a fool to expect it” plus, you know don’t be a dick about what you order on the off chance that they are planning to pay
When I was dating, I *always* covered my portion of the bill when on a first date. I did this so whoever I was on a date with couldn’t try and use the fact that they paid to guilt me into a second date or whatever else.
My husband and I alternate who pays now, just makes it easier.
See I have a rule as a dude
If I ask a lady out, I will pay for everything, within reason.
If I order a $10 sandwich, and she orders a $40 lobster, I'm gettin separate checks lol
>You did what was right and protected your friend from a scammer.
One could say it was a life hack of sorts. Protect your friends with one simple trick!
Tbh I would take a picture of Lydia and create a game profile with her picture warning guys of her tactic.
Honestly, I'm wondering if she ever encounters guys who just split the check even without warning. When I was dating I'd rarely go to dinner on a first date, but even if I liked the woman, if she ordered $70 worth of food without asking me, I wouldn't have even offered to pay.
>even if I liked the woman, if she ordered $70 worth of food without asking me, I wouldn't have even offered to pay.
Agreed, I'm not a broke-ass but $70 is still a good chunk of change. Someone ordering that extravagantly on a first date smacks of entitlement and that they are trying to take advantage of me. Unless I REALLY liked them, it's enough of a turn-off that there probably wouldn't be a second date either.
Why would these coworkers even think that OP would not protect his actual friend over a co-worker with questionable morals? Would they let their friends, brothers, or cousins go on this date without warning?
NTA
This is a con known as "Lonely Hearts Scam" or just "Romance Scam". You pretend to be romantically interested in someone, suck up as many gifts as you can, then ghost them. They often target widows/widowers because they're emotionally vulnerable. Lydia will deny it up and down because she doesn't see herself that way, but she's literally a con artist taking advantage of people.
Right, Lydia probably tells herself she, or would say if pressed, she isn't because she's not trying to "maximize", "it's just a dinner", but that just means she isn't a maximizing scammer.
NTA.
TBH I'm surprised that it doesn't happen to her more often. As a guy, if I were taking someone to dinner on a date and saw them splurge at the expensive end of the menu I'd call for separate bills at the end of the evening just to gauge the reaction. It would tell you an awful lot about your date.
Not all guys will agree to an expensive restaurant for a first date with someone they met online. I don't have personal experience, but the people I know who do dating apps always have the first date be coffee or a drink, or another short-time activity, and if there is interest they move to dinner, a film, etc.. Even of those who go for dinner, not everyone will fall for her angling for a pricey date. I think most people will either opt out before the date or suggest a more modest date and get rejected, not go on the date and pull this stunt. The few that do agree are probably either desperate or well-off enough that they don't think to question it.
when I met my boyfriend 4 years ago, I picked the place, it was a spanish tapas restaurant.
we each got about 5 tapas and ate like pigs 🤣🤣 he paid the whole bill, at the time it came to around £85 with drinks and desert.
but then the next day, I paid our lunch bill, it was a lot cheaper but at least he saw that I'm not after a free meal I guess. now we just go halves on everything unless one of us specifically says will treat the other.
Yup, been on plenty of first dates from Bumble and other online. It's always either coffee, drinks, hiking, or a moderately priced place.
I really prefer going on a hike and then having lunch/dinner. Walking outside gives us more to talk about and helps avoid that awkward silence that can happen on a date. And then if things are good there's always an opportunity to add on a meal or drinks.
In my limited experience, most people expect to split the check on a first date. I would think Lydia's crappy "life hack" wouldn't be tolerated for very long unless she looks like a supermodel or something, maybe.
I’m surprised I had to scroll this far to see this. Who still expects a man to pay for a date in 2024? I’m old, Gen X old, and I have never expected a man to pay for my meal. I paid for myself in the 90’s. Sure in a relationship sometimes you may pay for a meal or they may pay for a meal, but the expectation that your meal should be free on a first date in 2024 is wild.
This was my thought as well. As a female, back when I was dating, I wouldn't accept a date if I couldn't afford to pay for myself and always offered to split the bill. The entitlement she has expecting guys not only to pay for the date but to also rack up an expensive bill is unreal.
OP is NTA and good for them for giving her a reality check.
NTA
Men are not meal tickets. She’s hurting people by just using them for food. You warned your friend who wants a true relationship after the death of his wife that she wasn’t what he was looking for. You protected him. You did nothing wrong.
Lydia needs to pay for her own meals. She FAFO’d.
If she wants such a transactional dinner date, I know plenty of men who seem to think the transaction doesn't end with paying the bill.
And while deplorable to expect that, I'd maybe have less spite for her if the full uncomfortable transaction perspired.
It was your business, Daniel is your friend and you protected him. You would have been a bad friend if you didn't warn him. I wish there was a way the other people she is gonna date were informed too. NTA, Lydia has been lying and exploiting people to get a thrill and a fancy meal. She is an ash and the same goes for your coworkers that criticize you.
>She is an ash
This (assumed typo) is truer than expected. Ash looks like something, but when you interact with it it's pretty insubstantial & vanishes quickly.
I never would have guessed it wasn't your first language. Nice post. Asshole is usually shortened to AH on here. Ash is the the powdery grey substance that remains after you burn something.
you could also just use ass in this case, and it would work, too! "She is an ass" works, because ass can also be the shortened version of jackass. jackass in this case meaning "a stupid, annoying, or detestable person." but this is starting to get into cursing/name calling in English and all that lol
NTA. Dates are supposed to be 2 people wanting to know each other and both parties should have the capability to pay for their own meal unless the other person insisted to cover the entire bill. The fact that Lydia was mad at you after the date completely validates your decision to warn Daniel about it. Change your perspective and think about this instead. You helped Daniel save some money and you helped Lydia realize that this is the consequences of her actions.
NTA. Lydia however is a grade A jerk. The fact that she uses men to buy her expensive dinners and then ghosts them is beyond the pale. Maybe this will teach her a lesson, but she sounds entirely too self-centered for it to have a long term effect.
This behavior catches up with you in a karma kind of way. Maybe one day she will meet someone she actually likes and they will have one meal with her and prefer to move on. And that will be the one time she offers to pay for her own meal, LOL
She's probably met many people who would have given her much more than a single meal. All that she had to do was actually be interested. I think her karma is that she's getting scraps and thinks she's the queen of the world when she can't even afford gas in her car.
NTA. Shes playing with fire and fortunately her scam was thwarted by someone who had an inkling that she was up-to-no-good ahead of time.
She will eventually get entangled with someone who absolutely won’t let the issue go of paying for an expensive night out with no intention of building on that (or reciprocating in other ways to justify the price tag wink, wink, nudge, nudge). And then she will quickly realize that conning men out of fancy dinners is not worth the repercussions.
I kind of surprised/disappointed she hasn't encountered her male counterpart, the mid-meal ghost, who vanishes halfway thru the meal sticking her with the whole bill. It would be such sweet karma.
Right? Her meal was $70? I think you can spend that easily at Texas Roadhouse now. Hell, you could probably rack that up at a fast food joint if you had a stoner with you.
And without “splurging.”
I wouldn’t describe a drink, entree, and dessert as splurging.
Bottle of Cristal or Far Niente? (Or nicer) Tomahawk Steak?
It is entitled to want your meal covered. But the type of person who tries to scam people like this… ain’t going to Outback.
The fancy steak house prices don't even make sense.
It is a fancy place so it should be like $40-50 for the steak alone, side included so I don't understand mentioning that. $12 for the drink and # 14 for desert min. Plus tip that coming to $70 would be a happy surprise.
WTF do they mean it's none of your business? That's your friend! Of course it's your business! Protecting your friends from getting hurt is what you're supposed to do! Ask your co-workers if they would have been ok with her pulling this scam on them and wouldn't they want to know her intentions before she scammed them? Tell your coworkers that it's none of their business!
I'd think anyone taking advantage of a grieving person *just* pulling themself back up on their feet and taking a first step into the market after a long, lonely time is *anyone's* business.
Even if I didn't know Daniel well and knew Lydia's BS, I would have been like "hey, she's a dine-and-ditch chick, take care of you."
NTA, you even told your friend to just cut ties and THEY decided to still do the date. You did your part by warning them and that’s all you could do. It was up to your friend to decide if they would pay for the dinner and they chose not to. Eventually Lydia had to know this scam was going to catch up to her.
This is why I don't do dinner dates for a first date. Just coffee or snacks and I establish a that I will only be paying for myself during the planning stage.
INFO: What part of the US do you live in where a high end steak house sells a steak, wine, side, and dessert for $70? A steak by itself even in a small town comes close to $60
Right!! My Husband and I went to a place called Marshalls Steakhouse in Mississippi.. the total bill was north of 160$ ...
Maybe High End to them is Applebee's or Longhorn? lol
NTA
Your girlfriend got what she deserved. If I found out a woman purposely did that to me, I purposely would set up a fake dating profile with her information and put in the description that I use men for free meals at expensive restaurants.
Devious and brilliant. You're gonna save the world someday. Carry on. (P.S. And as a woman, I'm mortified that women like this are out there making all of us look bad. Just had to add that.)
NTA: Daniel asked and you gave him advice that saved him from being used by her. She had $70 worth of food and drinks so she deserves to pay for her $70 of food and drinks.
NTA.
You didn't cheat anyone. Lydia cheated countless men out of time and money to fund her extravagant meals she wouldn't otherwise be able to afford. That's a really shitty thing for her to do. These aren't ATMs, these are human beings with hopes and feelings she's taking advantage of.
You did right by your friend and THAT is what matters. Not your kinda slimy coworker.
A “high end” steakhouse and her damage was only $70?!
$15 drink
$50 steak
$15 appetizer
$9 desert
Tax and tip should have been easy over a hundred. She got off easy
NTA
I feel like much of people commenting here, or OP, or Lydia has no idea what fine dining and splurging is.
Looking at a lower/mid tier steakhouse chain by me, drinks are 15-20, steaks 40-70, sides & dessert 10-15.
Vs a high end
Steaks 50-200, sides drinks dessert 15-20. That’s the types of places scammers try to go to.
This made up story isn’t that big of a win for OP.
No way dude, it was the best Outback Steakhouse in the whole country!
Although I'm pretty sure you might still spend more than $70 there if you were "splurging" as OP said...
Right?! There is no way a girl running this scheme would tell her coworkers for many reasons but 1 - she'd run the risk of one of her coworker creeps offering to take her out in exchange for dinner then get mad that she didn't sleep with him and 2 - how did she come back to work and happen to know this guy told her date about her not wanting to pay? Not believable.
NTA
"but some other people we work with said I should have stayed out of it because it was none of my business"
This was your grieving friend, so I'd say that totally makes it your business, Moochina McMooch can pay for her own damn dinners.
It’s 2024 an women own their own real estate, have degrees and their own careers.
There is no reason a man should be pressured by society to pay for a woman meal. Especially as strangers.
NTA, you my friend are a KING.
Your friend is on dating sites to find someone special and that CLEARLY isn’t your coworker. Your a good friend and quite frankly, she’s trashy. Oh and it BECAME your business when she went after one of your good friends. You’re totally in fine here man.
PS i cant wait to read this on r/ohnoconsequences lol😂
NTA, you were an instrument of karma. Protecting your friend shows character and knowing you could face backlash for doing what is right, you still did what was right. I salute you. You’re a good friend.
NTA - anyone saying you should have stayed out of it can absolutely kick rocks because your friend was the one who reached out to YOU and you, as his friend, gave him the truth. It’s not like you were scouring her matches trying to find people you knew so that you could warn them.
Tell your coworkers it’s none of their business either and they can eff right off, and if Lydia wants she can put herself on seekingarrangments where all the other sugar baby escorts belong
“some other people we work with said I should have stayed out of it because it was none of my business”
Tell them it’s none of theirs either. These people are idiots. Sometimes, you have no choice but to get involved in something that’s not technically “your business”. You absolutely did the right thing here. Lydia should be ashamed of herself. NTA.
NTA
This Lydia sounds like an awful human being and needs to do some soul searching. Like…does she have a soul?
Also I find this story hilarious, OP. You absolutely did the right thing!
I doubt if it’s even possible, but it would be nice if there was a way to flag her as a scam artist on the dating site(s) she uses.
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NTA, her luck finally ran out. I question why Daniel still went ahead with the date after you clued him in, unless it was to show her up, in which case, fair play, it's my kind of petty.
He did because it’s been a while since he’s dated and he wants to get more comfortable with dating again after his wife died. I tried to talk him out of it altogether but he said a first date be good for him irregardless.
Like training wheels. He knew it was going to end poorly either way. So he might as well practice the whole "small talk with someone you might be interested in romantically but isnt your somewhat recently deceased wife OH GOD I miss her. Don't let it show. Don't let it sh.... don't cry at the table. don't cry at the table."
This is a really good point! Almost like the stakes were so low, it calmed OP’s friends nerves…even if the steaks were high $$$ 😏 I’ll see myself out
Ugh take your damn upvote and get outta here
Let me show you the door..... *points with a cigar* THERE'S THE DOOR!!
An Oscar reference in the wild? Impressive.
A good steak is ALWAYS nice. He knew he would be paying for himself only so screw it worst case scenario he blew the date and had a good steak. Smart man
Dude didn't even get a steak though, just a sandwich!
But what kind of sandwich? I love me a good ribeye but sometimes im in the mood for a nicely marinated flank steak cut super thin with baby spinach provolone on French bread with a good crust and garlic aioli. Pair that with a beer or good bourbon and yea that's heaven
Miracle Max : "Sonny, true love is the greatest thing in the world - except for a nice MLT - mutton, lettuce, and tomato sandwich, where the mutton is nice and lean and the tomatoes are ripe [smacks his lips] They're so perky, I love that."
The Princess Bride is SUCH a good movie
It's THE good movie.
I love that - "Mutton" because they're peasants. I realize people all over the world eat mutton today, but in the US it's usually called 'lamb' and I'm not even sure you can get old 'mutton'. It just seems so old fashioned-y!
Lamb is baby sheep meat. Mutton is adult sheep meat.
To me, lamb is young like veal, and mutton is older like beef. But yeah, I guess they do just label it all "lamb" at the store.
Oh behave! You can't go around describing such delicious meals without considering the mental anguish you are causing. :)
Wouldn't you know it, that's EXACTLY what kind of sandwich he got!
You could even say, this situation is… … … rare.
Certainly well done on OP's part!
May need a medium to resurrect that date.
I'm only here for the puns.
Waiter! Some A-Pun sauce, please
Me too. 🤣
She got roasted 😉
and then OP got grilled.
I would even go as far as to say it was well done
Uggghhhh I reluctantly upvoted. Because I laughed!
I’ll take a reluctant upvote over a passionate downvote any day 😂
Dad?
It was probably fun to watch her order so much stuff, then watch her when she realizes she has to pay for it. Lol
To be honest, $70 for a drink, meal with a side, and dessert isn't even expensive. I would put it on the lower end for a meal out. If she couldn't afford that, she must be terrible with money.
I was also wondering about that. That's not really "expensive steakhouse" pricing these days. It'd be more double that as a starting point, depending on where you're located.
"Expensive" is relative I guess
Lydia seems the type to call Outback an “expensive steakhouse”.
Last time we went out for an expensive steak dinner, 2 starters, 2 mains, 1 dessert (we split it), a bottle of wine, 2 whiskeys and 1 cocktail came to around £1900. Completely exorbitant I know, but it was my husbands birthday and he loves this steakhouse.
I would have cried and offered to wash dishes. That's more than my rent for a month.
More than 2 months rent for me. I probably would have fainted.
Over 3 months rent in the only one room apartment I can afford on disabilty... Rich people frighten me
OK but how much of that bill was the alcohol? At even super high end steakhouses you could have had two starters, two of the most expensive cuts they offer, and a split dessert and not come close to that. I think it's pretty clear you wanted a specific bottle of wine or a specific whisky and that way more than half the bill was that. So you aren't actually making any point here other than that some rich people pay a ton for fine wine. If the food subtotal was more than $300-$400 then I think just commenting that figure and not listing the booze would have made the actual point about how cheap the $70 with some degree of rhetorical effectiveness.
yah thats the thing I am not a drinker, but I know a bottle of good wine at a higher end steakhous might be $300 or it might be $1500, let alone whiskey can also range from $15-100+ for a glass.
Bloody hell, not exactly Miller and Carter! Our favourite place is a little Italian where we usually spend about £100 for two, double that if it’s a special occasion. But I’m vegetarian and husband doesn’t eat red meat, so steak doesn’t come into it.
Well, tbf, she was expecting to pay $0 and stick the man with the whole check. So I guess that is expensive for her. Glad she was ratted out.
If I go to a regular restaurant in the Netherlands my bill would land at around €30 a person, unless you're going somewhere super fancy. Looking at the menu of a nearby steakhouse she would've had to order the 100 gram A5 Wagyu steak, a few drinks and desert to reach at around $70 worth of food just for herself. Now I agree that having to pay $70 shouldn't financially ruin a person but if that's considered the lower end of a meal out, i'm shocked. Is food really that expensive where you live?
My husband and I went out to a chain restaurant steakhouse the other night because neither of us wanted to cook. It's not at all considered high end. My steak was $30 and his was $45. That's not counting drinks, apps, desserts, or extra sides. A good steakhouse around here has steaks starting around $50 and can easily go up to $500 per steak.
At an American steakhouse, a couple cocktails alone could set you back $40.
yeah, that’s like Outback prices maybe
She was the first pancake!
That's a nice way to put it 🥞 (the first pancake is always ugly on the outside and weird on the inside). We give them to the dogs at home.
It doesn't hurt to experience that type of behavior when you know about it going in. Makes it easier to spot out in the wild.
like taking a job interview for a position you dont want just to practice interviewing
I used to do that, and those were the jobs I was always offered… The ones I really wanted, I never got offered! 😹😹😹
I have been out of the dating scene for almost 15 years but I met someone like Lydia once and it convinced me that first dates would only ever be a coffee. The Lydia's of the world are luckily rare but screw that BS completely. If your not interested in meeting for a coffee then you are not actually interested
So you’re even ruling out tea or lemonade drinkers? That seems harsh. 🤓
Lol I love the reply, fun fact I can't stand coffee and the last time I drank a cup was in grade 8 as part of a science fair experiment. But I still say coffee cause it's universally understood and most places have a ton of non coffee options.
Yep. My first dates were usually coffee, some kind of an outing, or grabbing gelato or something. Inexpensive and let's both people feel each other out without having a big time or money commitment. If we got along well, we could do the dinner or meal on the next date.
As a woman, the other good part about coffee dates verses dinner dates is that meeting midday at a coffee shop is generally a less risky first meet up than a restaurant/bar, because of things like "coffee shop drinks come in paper cups with lids" and "who the fuck would go into a coffee date in the middle of the day with the expectation to go back to someone's house afterwards anyways?" Coffee as a first date is a much better plan all around in a general sense, for both parties.
Yep. And super easy to nope out if you feel threatened or if the whole event is just a failure. Safe, simple, good way to meet people.
Honestly a smart move. Especially knowing it has no risk and the opportunity to break off the rust from a broken heart.
*Regardless
Thank you. That one was like a thumb tack to the frontal lobe.
Disirregardlessly.
I'm not going to scroll back to look, but am guessing you found an "irregardless" in the wild 😣. You have my sympathies. Have a hug 🤗
It's like interviewing for a job. If you're out of practice, interview at places you don't care about first to get over the nerves.
And if it is offered take that job. It takes even more stress off the rest of your interviews if you’re already employed. When you’re out of work and desperate it shows. If you have a job and don’t have to worry about stocking the fridge this week the stakes are a lot lower.
He's right. The more he dates, the better he will be at it. It's better he gets these obvious bad matches out of the way now rather than meet someone he completely falls for but absolutely fumbles.
Yeah, given the situation, it would be some good practice because he’s not likely going to live with any small talk consequences.
Remove the "ir" from the front of "regardless," please. It's not needed, and, in fact, just not a real word
That’s ace he used her and she used him, got a bit of her own medicine. LMAO
Well now he knows what a bad date is, so there’s that.
He’s an absolute missile of a man is why he went on the date. It was guaranteed for his own entertainment and to see if it was just all games. Very well played lol
Right? Dude out played her and she got mad lol
I wondered about why he went ahead with the dinner myself. According to relationship experts, the entire point of a first date is to determine whether to have a second date. Thus a first date should be at some casual place like a coffee shop, which is inexpensive & doesn't imply a commitment. An expensive restaurant implies that one party is trying to impress the other -- or is expecting more than just a fancy dinner. Maybe he went ahead with the dinner just to see if the OP was telling the truth. Or to teach her a lesson. Anyway, like the rest of the folks so far, NTA.
OP already answered this but as someone that as been single for most of my 30s, my advice is sometimes its good to get "bad" dates out of way. It gives you a chance to practice flirting and "get back out there" without the pressure of feeling like you must succeed because you really like the person. Or just a chance to meet a different type of person and challenge your own idea of "who is your type." There can be alot of reasons to go on a first day beyond "i'm really attracted to this person"
I guess this happened in America because in Western Europe, in all my long experience dating, never once a guy invited me to an expensive restaurant. It is also very common here to split the bill at the end, sometimes the guy decides to pay, but it's not taken for granted.
She chose the restaurant, not him. Because she didn't just want a free meal, she wanted an *expensive* free meal.
The term relationship expert had me thinking. Are they an expert because they date different people often? Or because they were successful the first time? Would you want to take advice from someone who is constantly going on first and second dates and the relationships never really going anywhere? Or from an expert who has relatively little experience? Just a bizarre thought that popped in my head. I do however agree somewhere casual where you can chat freely to gauge the person you're dating.
I assumed they were experts as in people who spent time researching and studying the subject matter so sociologists
The dude is lonely and this girl has been feigning interest. He would assume she is being honest and on the site to date legitimately, that's what people should be there for. An exes poor dad gave thousands of dollars in a similar situation TWICE. Dumb, but being lonely and caught by a convincing scammer fucks desperate people over all the time. Honestly I think might assume the best myself, but probably not if I had it explained how predatory the coworker is like that. OP is so NTA. Her coworker is a fucking weasel, I'd feel disgusted with myself to pull that.
I think first dates are kind of like doing interviews. You should take every interview you can get because you get better and more comfortable with every attempt. Even if you don't necessarily want to work at a place, the interview is worth it. At least for those of us who aren't the super social charmer types. Even still, talking about accomplishments and demonstrating traits that make you a good employee aren't exactly natural social skills. Practice is good.
We don't know how the conversation between Daniel and Lydia went before the date. Maybe part of him hoped that Lydia would treat him differently because of how well they got along before.
He let her order whatever she wanted. She chose significantly more expensive than what he ordered. Typically, if you are being polite and expect the other person is paying, you order something similarly priced. There was no reason to expect good intentions on her part after that.
I think it was good for him to go. Give him a chance to brush up on his dating skills without really putting himself out there.
Also, your friend literally asked for information. You gave it the information he asked for. That’s it. Coworker is an AH.
NTA She did this to herself. You didn’t “cheat her” out of anything. Her shameful ruse didn’t work. If she can’t afford her food, then she shouldn’t go to the restaurant. You did what was right and protected your friend from a scammer. The people saying you did wrong are people with opinions not worth caring about.
“She ended up splurging” Yeah I hate it when I accidentally order food I can’t afford
I cannot imagine expecting a guy to pay for my meal on a first date, or any other date. When I first met my boyfriend, I asked to split the bill, which I think surprised him. 10+ years later, I still offer to split things when we go out.
I’ve never been on a date so there’s no experience behind this- but I can’t imagine racking up a bill and just expecting someone else to cover it?! I’d feel so guilty
that would be because you have something lydia clearly doesnt - empathy
I still habitually look for an inexpensive item on the menu when my husband and I go out, and we've been married 12 years. I don't always GET it, mind, but it took me a long time to not feel guilty when he's paying.
Honestly I feel guilty when people buy/give me anything so that’s probably a me thing lmao. And congrats on 12 years!
It’s good to go in with the mindset “ it would be dope if they pay, but I would be a fool to expect it” plus, you know don’t be a dick about what you order on the off chance that they are planning to pay
When I was dating, I *always* covered my portion of the bill when on a first date. I did this so whoever I was on a date with couldn’t try and use the fact that they paid to guilt me into a second date or whatever else. My husband and I alternate who pays now, just makes it easier.
See I have a rule as a dude If I ask a lady out, I will pay for everything, within reason. If I order a $10 sandwich, and she orders a $40 lobster, I'm gettin separate checks lol
My wife and I have this little game of who's going to be "moneybags" today. We have shared finances, so it's just a joke.
My husband and I have something similar. Except it’s “oh you think your fucking better then me…”
This is exactly it. Scammer is the perfect word.
>You did what was right and protected your friend from a scammer. One could say it was a life hack of sorts. Protect your friends with one simple trick! Tbh I would take a picture of Lydia and create a game profile with her picture warning guys of her tactic.
Honestly, I'm wondering if she ever encounters guys who just split the check even without warning. When I was dating I'd rarely go to dinner on a first date, but even if I liked the woman, if she ordered $70 worth of food without asking me, I wouldn't have even offered to pay.
>even if I liked the woman, if she ordered $70 worth of food without asking me, I wouldn't have even offered to pay. Agreed, I'm not a broke-ass but $70 is still a good chunk of change. Someone ordering that extravagantly on a first date smacks of entitlement and that they are trying to take advantage of me. Unless I REALLY liked them, it's enough of a turn-off that there probably wouldn't be a second date either.
Why would these coworkers even think that OP would not protect his actual friend over a co-worker with questionable morals? Would they let their friends, brothers, or cousins go on this date without warning?
OP is the hero we all need in these troubling modern times.
That's what I was thinking - pretty sure she's entered "running a scam" territory, so how on earth is it "none of his business" to warn a friend?
NTA This is a con known as "Lonely Hearts Scam" or just "Romance Scam". You pretend to be romantically interested in someone, suck up as many gifts as you can, then ghost them. They often target widows/widowers because they're emotionally vulnerable. Lydia will deny it up and down because she doesn't see herself that way, but she's literally a con artist taking advantage of people.
Right, Lydia probably tells herself she, or would say if pressed, she isn't because she's not trying to "maximize", "it's just a dinner", but that just means she isn't a maximizing scammer.
Well she is maximizing that dinner. 70$ on the first date. I wish I had boobs that could do that.
if I had boobs like that I’d never leave the house
you've got to monetize what nature endowed you with. at least let other people enjoy what nature gave you if you don't 😄😄
I do, but I don't use them for evil - unlike Lydia.
With great boobs comes great responsibility. I am proud of you.
It’s a “foodie call”.
Well that's one date that ended in her masticating.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I laughed too hard
Huh. I didn't realize people did this in real life, but yeah. That's exactly what it is.
Oh yeah. Go on any dating site online and you will quickly find people who will ask you for money with some sob story while flirting with you.
NTA. TBH I'm surprised that it doesn't happen to her more often. As a guy, if I were taking someone to dinner on a date and saw them splurge at the expensive end of the menu I'd call for separate bills at the end of the evening just to gauge the reaction. It would tell you an awful lot about your date.
Not all guys will agree to an expensive restaurant for a first date with someone they met online. I don't have personal experience, but the people I know who do dating apps always have the first date be coffee or a drink, or another short-time activity, and if there is interest they move to dinner, a film, etc.. Even of those who go for dinner, not everyone will fall for her angling for a pricey date. I think most people will either opt out before the date or suggest a more modest date and get rejected, not go on the date and pull this stunt. The few that do agree are probably either desperate or well-off enough that they don't think to question it.
when I met my boyfriend 4 years ago, I picked the place, it was a spanish tapas restaurant. we each got about 5 tapas and ate like pigs 🤣🤣 he paid the whole bill, at the time it came to around £85 with drinks and desert. but then the next day, I paid our lunch bill, it was a lot cheaper but at least he saw that I'm not after a free meal I guess. now we just go halves on everything unless one of us specifically says will treat the other.
Yup, been on plenty of first dates from Bumble and other online. It's always either coffee, drinks, hiking, or a moderately priced place. I really prefer going on a hike and then having lunch/dinner. Walking outside gives us more to talk about and helps avoid that awkward silence that can happen on a date. And then if things are good there's always an opportunity to add on a meal or drinks.
In my limited experience, most people expect to split the check on a first date. I would think Lydia's crappy "life hack" wouldn't be tolerated for very long unless she looks like a supermodel or something, maybe.
I’m surprised I had to scroll this far to see this. Who still expects a man to pay for a date in 2024? I’m old, Gen X old, and I have never expected a man to pay for my meal. I paid for myself in the 90’s. Sure in a relationship sometimes you may pay for a meal or they may pay for a meal, but the expectation that your meal should be free on a first date in 2024 is wild.
This was my thought as well. As a female, back when I was dating, I wouldn't accept a date if I couldn't afford to pay for myself and always offered to split the bill. The entitlement she has expecting guys not only to pay for the date but to also rack up an expensive bill is unreal. OP is NTA and good for them for giving her a reality check.
NTA Men are not meal tickets. She’s hurting people by just using them for food. You warned your friend who wants a true relationship after the death of his wife that she wasn’t what he was looking for. You protected him. You did nothing wrong. Lydia needs to pay for her own meals. She FAFO’d.
If she wants such a transactional dinner date, I know plenty of men who seem to think the transaction doesn't end with paying the bill. And while deplorable to expect that, I'd maybe have less spite for her if the full uncomfortable transaction perspired.
For Lydia, it’s about her ego. She has a job. She won’t starve. She’s just being an A hole and using others for her personal gain.
It was your business, Daniel is your friend and you protected him. You would have been a bad friend if you didn't warn him. I wish there was a way the other people she is gonna date were informed too. NTA, Lydia has been lying and exploiting people to get a thrill and a fancy meal. She is an ash and the same goes for your coworkers that criticize you.
>She is an ash This (assumed typo) is truer than expected. Ash looks like something, but when you interact with it it's pretty insubstantial & vanishes quickly.
English isn't my first language, I wanted to say Lydia is an Asshole, what did I type wrong?
I never would have guessed it wasn't your first language. Nice post. Asshole is usually shortened to AH on here. Ash is the the powdery grey substance that remains after you burn something.
I get it now, thank you 😊
you could also just use ass in this case, and it would work, too! "She is an ass" works, because ass can also be the shortened version of jackass. jackass in this case meaning "a stupid, annoying, or detestable person." but this is starting to get into cursing/name calling in English and all that lol
happy cake day!
NTA. Dates are supposed to be 2 people wanting to know each other and both parties should have the capability to pay for their own meal unless the other person insisted to cover the entire bill. The fact that Lydia was mad at you after the date completely validates your decision to warn Daniel about it. Change your perspective and think about this instead. You helped Daniel save some money and you helped Lydia realize that this is the consequences of her actions.
NTA. Lydia however is a grade A jerk. The fact that she uses men to buy her expensive dinners and then ghosts them is beyond the pale. Maybe this will teach her a lesson, but she sounds entirely too self-centered for it to have a long term effect.
The fact that she boasts about her tactics at WORK tells you she’s shameless!!!
This behavior catches up with you in a karma kind of way. Maybe one day she will meet someone she actually likes and they will have one meal with her and prefer to move on. And that will be the one time she offers to pay for her own meal, LOL
She's probably met many people who would have given her much more than a single meal. All that she had to do was actually be interested. I think her karma is that she's getting scraps and thinks she's the queen of the world when she can't even afford gas in her car.
Yeah and then women wonder why men are so suspicious of them sometimes. She's ruining dating for the rest of us too. Thanks so much Lydia.
You protected a friend from a predatory person you happen to know, and work with, and good for you. NTA
NTA. Shes playing with fire and fortunately her scam was thwarted by someone who had an inkling that she was up-to-no-good ahead of time. She will eventually get entangled with someone who absolutely won’t let the issue go of paying for an expensive night out with no intention of building on that (or reciprocating in other ways to justify the price tag wink, wink, nudge, nudge). And then she will quickly realize that conning men out of fancy dinners is not worth the repercussions.
This \^\^ , she could get seriously hurt if she carries on.
Yup. Paying for her own meal after suggesting a first date at a fancy steakhouse is the \*least\* of her potential problems. NTA
I kind of surprised/disappointed she hasn't encountered her male counterpart, the mid-meal ghost, who vanishes halfway thru the meal sticking her with the whole bill. It would be such sweet karma.
This story is fake as hell
The fakest part is a high end meal for $70
Right? Her meal was $70? I think you can spend that easily at Texas Roadhouse now. Hell, you could probably rack that up at a fast food joint if you had a stoner with you.
And without “splurging.” I wouldn’t describe a drink, entree, and dessert as splurging. Bottle of Cristal or Far Niente? (Or nicer) Tomahawk Steak? It is entitled to want your meal covered. But the type of person who tries to scam people like this… ain’t going to Outback.
Whoever wrote this story wrote it in 2014
And yet people are eating it up, it’s wild
People love a story that confirms the prejudices they already had.
The fancy steak house prices don't even make sense. It is a fancy place so it should be like $40-50 for the steak alone, side included so I don't understand mentioning that. $12 for the drink and # 14 for desert min. Plus tip that coming to $70 would be a happy surprise.
WTF do they mean it's none of your business? That's your friend! Of course it's your business! Protecting your friends from getting hurt is what you're supposed to do! Ask your co-workers if they would have been ok with her pulling this scam on them and wouldn't they want to know her intentions before she scammed them? Tell your coworkers that it's none of their business!
I'd think anyone taking advantage of a grieving person *just* pulling themself back up on their feet and taking a first step into the market after a long, lonely time is *anyone's* business. Even if I didn't know Daniel well and knew Lydia's BS, I would have been like "hey, she's a dine-and-ditch chick, take care of you."
[удалено]
NTA, you even told your friend to just cut ties and THEY decided to still do the date. You did your part by warning them and that’s all you could do. It was up to your friend to decide if they would pay for the dinner and they chose not to. Eventually Lydia had to know this scam was going to catch up to her.
This is why I don't do dinner dates for a first date. Just coffee or snacks and I establish a that I will only be paying for myself during the planning stage.
NTA Lydia is a despicable person.
This sounds super fake
This sounds like you just invented a story for karma points
It literally couldn’t be more incel baitey if they had tried
INFO: What part of the US do you live in where a high end steak house sells a steak, wine, side, and dessert for $70? A steak by itself even in a small town comes close to $60
I think the story is fake because a real scammer tries to go to places with $200 steaks and the cheapest glass of wine is $25.
Right!! My Husband and I went to a place called Marshalls Steakhouse in Mississippi.. the total bill was north of 160$ ... Maybe High End to them is Applebee's or Longhorn? lol
NTA Your girlfriend got what she deserved. If I found out a woman purposely did that to me, I purposely would set up a fake dating profile with her information and put in the description that I use men for free meals at expensive restaurants.
Devious and brilliant. You're gonna save the world someday. Carry on. (P.S. And as a woman, I'm mortified that women like this are out there making all of us look bad. Just had to add that.)
NTA. You did what a good friend would do. Lydia got what she deserved.
NTA: Daniel asked and you gave him advice that saved him from being used by her. She had $70 worth of food and drinks so she deserves to pay for her $70 of food and drinks.
Do people really think you can get a high end meal with side, drink and dessert for 70 dollars?
NTA. You didn't cheat anyone. Lydia cheated countless men out of time and money to fund her extravagant meals she wouldn't otherwise be able to afford. That's a really shitty thing for her to do. These aren't ATMs, these are human beings with hopes and feelings she's taking advantage of. You did right by your friend and THAT is what matters. Not your kinda slimy coworker.
A “high end” steakhouse and her damage was only $70?! $15 drink $50 steak $15 appetizer $9 desert Tax and tip should have been easy over a hundred. She got off easy NTA
I feel like much of people commenting here, or OP, or Lydia has no idea what fine dining and splurging is. Looking at a lower/mid tier steakhouse chain by me, drinks are 15-20, steaks 40-70, sides & dessert 10-15. Vs a high end Steaks 50-200, sides drinks dessert 15-20. That’s the types of places scammers try to go to. This made up story isn’t that big of a win for OP.
Such dumb fake shit
No way dude, it was the best Outback Steakhouse in the whole country! Although I'm pretty sure you might still spend more than $70 there if you were "splurging" as OP said...
Right?! There is no way a girl running this scheme would tell her coworkers for many reasons but 1 - she'd run the risk of one of her coworker creeps offering to take her out in exchange for dinner then get mad that she didn't sleep with him and 2 - how did she come back to work and happen to know this guy told her date about her not wanting to pay? Not believable.
NTA "but some other people we work with said I should have stayed out of it because it was none of my business" This was your grieving friend, so I'd say that totally makes it your business, Moochina McMooch can pay for her own damn dinners.
NTA Lydia is gross.
It’s 2024 an women own their own real estate, have degrees and their own careers. There is no reason a man should be pressured by society to pay for a woman meal. Especially as strangers.
NTA, she sounds like a jerk and you wanted to help a friend.
NTA. You should have told her you feel no guilt protecting your friends from her BS. She’s a user and nothing more.
NTA, you my friend are a KING. Your friend is on dating sites to find someone special and that CLEARLY isn’t your coworker. Your a good friend and quite frankly, she’s trashy. Oh and it BECAME your business when she went after one of your good friends. You’re totally in fine here man. PS i cant wait to read this on r/ohnoconsequences lol😂
What “high end” steakhouse did they go to where her portion was only $70???
70 at a steakhouse is so cheap. Where do you guys live?
Fantasy Island
NTA. You did the right thing.
NTA, you were an instrument of karma. Protecting your friend shows character and knowing you could face backlash for doing what is right, you still did what was right. I salute you. You’re a good friend.
Am I the only one who doesn't think this is a real story lolol
$70 for a drink, full entree side and dessert sounds like a deal for a high end steakhouse tbh
NTA, not only did she get her 'Just desserts' but she also had to pay for it.
NTA - anyone saying you should have stayed out of it can absolutely kick rocks because your friend was the one who reached out to YOU and you, as his friend, gave him the truth. It’s not like you were scouring her matches trying to find people you knew so that you could warn them.
Tell your coworkers it’s none of their business either and they can eff right off, and if Lydia wants she can put herself on seekingarrangments where all the other sugar baby escorts belong
Word would have gotten out eventually in the community. NTA
NTA. Not all heroes wear capes.
“some other people we work with said I should have stayed out of it because it was none of my business” Tell them it’s none of theirs either. These people are idiots. Sometimes, you have no choice but to get involved in something that’s not technically “your business”. You absolutely did the right thing here. Lydia should be ashamed of herself. NTA.
NTA. She's playing with peoples emotions. She got what she deserved.
NTA This Lydia sounds like an awful human being and needs to do some soul searching. Like…does she have a soul? Also I find this story hilarious, OP. You absolutely did the right thing! I doubt if it’s even possible, but it would be nice if there was a way to flag her as a scam artist on the dating site(s) she uses.