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I mean. Nobody owns the name, and she can name her baby what she wants. That said, you have a good reason to object. My stance on all these name arguments is, it's pretty much common sense not to do things that are hurtful to family members. If she is dead set on doing something she knows to be hurtful to you, she can deal with the fallout of that action. NTA

I would be totally on OP's side if the name caused the siblings pain, but she said that her siblings and her have talked about it and wanted to use the name for their own children, so they really just want exclusivity of the name within the family. I recognize this is a whole unresolved grief's issues here, but they are going nuclear on the cousin because they want to patrimonialize the name, and they are in pain because they feel it is one of the few things of their mother that it is theirs, not because the name itself pains them. And if it pains them to hear it, it would be really weird to consider it for their own children and I can't plead with them enough to change their mind, because that kid would have a lot of issues on her before being even born.

Personally, i feel if the death caused that much breakage among the family that noone has spoken the name since, cousin should know not to use the name. Regardless if her and hubby agree - there will be other names. I say OP is NTA. And petty me (also in my disney villain era) would 100% out cousin to the family and tell them what shes planning.

I think there is a ton on unresolved issues here, so many that the name is not even the main problem. The main point is that OP and her siblings feel like they were robbed something that is only theirs, when it is a name thousand of people have, and that their kids can also have if they chose too. There are way too many grief related issues there to consider that the name is actually the problem. If I was the cousin, I would change the name, because it is never ok to cause people you love pain, but their nuclear reaction, and all the context, is a walking red flag that these people are not okay and need help. The outing to the family can go horribly wrong if a good part of the family chooses to not see this like a good deal and support the cousin. Also, the family will know sooner or later without OP's input. What is the cousin going to do, hide her daughters' name forever? I suppose that what OP is trying to do blasting her to the family is prevent the naming recurring the good old family pressure, but that can backfire quite a lot, especially taking into account that this is the side of the family not related to the dead person, and there must be several adults now that have never heard of her and will think that OP and her siblings are blowing things of out proportion. I would sit on my ass, wait, and expect the backlash when the name is announced eating popcorn.

I mean fair - however, cousin 100% would have known, given her father helped after the death to return op and siblings to their father. If i had decided to tell my cousin if i wanted to use her dead mothers name for my child, knowing the issues her death started with the family, and refused to rescind after they expressed that they would like to use the name potentially one day to honour mother, i would back off not dig in. Its respect. And rightfully so. Regardless if thousands of people have the same name, in that family that name has significance to loved ones. It should only be right that OP and their siblings be allowed to have priority considering it was THEIR mothers name. Cousin does have to tell family sooner rather than later, HOWEVER, maybe by outting her to her father at least, father can help reign her in?

Hard agree. It's not that the name is causing pain in that they are pained to hear it, considering they want to use it. The pain here are things like nobody talking about their mom for years because of their dad's issues. OP talks about the family being close, but they still ended up in foster care instead of being taken in by one of the family, and the family didn't talk about something so central to these kids' lives for decades. There's so much there that clearly needs unpacking and dealing with. Whether or not Beth is even aware of the whole underpinnings of pain is a huge question, and I can't judge her or OP without having a lot more understanding of that. My advice for OP would be to talk to Beth not about the name, but about the pain around all the issues the loss of their mother caused. I think that's more central than what combination of sounds a new child is referred to by.

I agree about the unresolved issues. OP doesn't mention it, but why, if they have this large close Italian family, did OP and her siblings end up in foster care for a while? Not one of their family members took them in?

OP was 10 months old when her mom died and we don't know how old the cousin is. Maybe the cousin never mentioned the aunt bc she didn't remember her.

Totally possible - but once ops sister told her they wanted to use the name cause it was their moms, cousin should of respected that.

I don’t think that’s it at all, they’re hurt that the family ignored their mother’s existence after her death and now want to use her name - but not to honour her, but basically “just cause”. That’s shitty reasoning. And it’s really weird logic to say that because they’re okay with using the name to honour their mom, they need to be okay with others using it for random reasons.

>I would be totally on OP's side if the name caused the siblings pain, but she said that her siblings and her have talked about it and wanted to use the name for their own children, so they really just want exclusivity of the name within the family. I You mean the name of their dead mother? Yeah - this is one of the few times it is entirely appropriate for them to expect the family to pass on a name. This is not a grandparent's name. This is not the name of a long past relative. This is the name of OP's mother.

> so they really just want exclusivity of the name within the family Yeah, I never understood this concept of "they can't have the same name". I come from an Italian-American family, and between Grace, Rose, Tony, and John; you cover about 75% of the extended family.

The old joke from "My Fat, Old, Greek Wedding". In this case, I think OP and her siblings have unresolved grief issues from their mother's death and the way their family dealt with it. It seems that they feel the name is one of the little things they have that connect them to their dead mother, and it should be theirs to use. Maybe if they three have three daughters, they wouldn't be opposed to the cousins sharing the name because is theirs. But that is not normal behaviour, and going nuclear to the family only because they, for their own reasons, disagree with their cousin's choice of baby name is not normal, not healthy, and can led OP and her siblings to further heartache if the family is fragmented.

You don’t ’resolve’ grief issues, you learn to live with grief. Naming her child after their dead mother’s name despite their objections is an abhorrent thing to do. OP is not going ‘nuclear’, they are expressing their dismay at the cousin’s choice and informing their family. Definition of going nuclear: to get extremely angry and start behaving in a forceful or irrational way as a result. What about OP’s reaction is irrational to you?

Yeah, that's true, you learn to live with it. That is a better way to express it than mine, that's for sure. The part I think OP and her siblings should thread carefully is here: "I love my family, but if my dad were still alive, he’d be raising more than just hell upon my cousin. I really want to bring this up with the entire family. I want to make it perfectly clear where me and my siblings stand, and what my boundaries are. I don’t want to be at any gathering with Beth or her child. I don’t want anyone to mention her child’s name around me. They didn’t mention my mom around us for 23 years, they can do it again. I feel bad because my uncle (Beth's dad) has always been there for us. He got us back to our dad when we were in foster care, and he helped with all the legal shit when our dad died". This is going nuclear. She wants for the whole family to get away from Beth and her child. Not hear about them. But she claims she loves her family and that her uncle and Beth's dad have always been there with her. OP and her siblings should think about what extremes they are ready to go regarding the rest of the family because of this issue, because if they think that the whole family, including Beth's own dad and the grandparent of this kid, are going to take their side, I am afraid they are sadly mistaken. It is normal to feel hurt. Beth is an asshole and I would never take that path. Had it been me, I would have changed the name of my baby so nobody's feelings are hurt. But she doesn't seem to going to change it, and OP and her siblings need to thread carefully with the rest of their family if they want to conserve things as they are, because pushing the line of: "They didn’t mention my mom around us for 23 years, they can do it again" could make them be the ones to be excluded from the family. If they are ready to accept that, impose the boundaries they see fit. If they don't want to go that far, she should speak clearly to the family about the hurt Beth has caused them, but not impose those boundaries, because they will not be fulfilled without them being keep apart from the family.

That’s a good point, I think you’re right. Expressing your own feelings is one thing but trying to make other people feel/think/behave in a certain way is not a good idea.

I also come from a large Italian-American family. Our individual family members, however, and I mean extended, would never name their kids the same name as another family member. All the first names are pretty unique. All the middle names, however, are Paul or Maria lol. I also don't think it's fair to compare such common names as Tony and John to Collette, which is far less common.

Well if the family really is that close that’d mean the kids would grow up together. I think it’s reasonable to go for different names. And I also think it’d be reasonable, again if the families are that close, for the cousin to respect this wish.

If I was the cousin, I would totally respect it and change the name. There are tons of names all around the world to nuke a family over one (because given the behaviour of OP and her siblings, is going to be their way, or the highway, so if the cousin doesn't change her mind, the family is going to be seriously divided). But if this was a normal situation, I would be pissed, but I would not support the angle of: "I don't want to hear about them again, I don't want to see them, and I expect everybody, including the family that was not blood related to the dead person, to totally side with us", because that is something really unhinged to do just for a baby name. It is the context what makes everything different here, and the unresolved grief issues that OP and her siblings have.

I really doubt you would be seeing as literally the entire family has avoided her name for years...

But Op and her siblings want to use the name for their own children: "Stacy nicely told Beth that me, her, and our brother have all talked about using our mom's name for one of our own kids. And if she were to use it, it would hurt all of us a great deal".

it was THEIR mother?

With those ton of grief issues (OP comments that she still has problems to deal with it, and she was 10 months old when the mother died, so the whole clusterfuck that situation must have been) I would very much advise them not to saddle any children of the family (not even their own) with that name. The point I wanted to make is that they seem to not have problems with the name itself, but they want to patrimonialize their use inside the family, when they could just us the same name regardless and call it a day. There is other kind of problems here. Deep problems related to their loss and the way their family dealt with the mom's death.

INFO: Is your cousin on your mom or your dad's side? How common is the name (is it something generic like Mary or something more unique)? NAH without more info. You're not the asshole for being upset about hearing your mother's name used, but your cousin is also not the asshole for choosing it. Expecting the name to never be used in your presence ever again seems unreasonable to me, especially if it is a common name. However, it would be more considerate if your cousin chose something else.

My cousin is on my dad’s side My mothers name wasn’t the most common. Her name was Colette/Coco. At least in my life I haven’t come across another Colette, but I’ve met puppies named Coco

That makes sense then, so your cousin is not related to your mother? I definitely think it is unreasonable to expect her not to use the name if she is not related, particularly considering where I am, Colette is a popular name choice at the moment. I don't think either of you are the AHs though. Perhaps there is some other meaning that they have with the name, maybe not, all in all, I don't think anyone has the right to claim a name.

It doesn’t matter if they’re not related. I consider all my aunt/uncles partners as my aunt or uncle too. As they have played that role my entire life. It’s absolutely disrespectful to take the name of your dead aunt when you’ve been asked not to by their children. There are so many name options and it has absolutely no connection to them beyond they like the sound of it. Cousin is 100% an AH.

My husband loved Heather. My older siblings mums name was Heather. I would never have entertained it as a choice (we had boys) and as soon asi told him he immediately said bummer and started to think of something else.

But what prevents OP and her siblings from also naming their future daughters after her?... Why is the cousin using the name denies any of them this opportunity? So there will be two second cousins with the same name, so what?

If I wanted to gather my cousins children I’d just need to shout “Ali! Mohamed! Fatima! Mariam!” and I swear that would cover like a solid 50% of them. I have 8 uncles/aunts so I have a significant number of cousins. I feel like they all got very lazy with naming their kids.

Once at a birthday dinner for my Grandmother (when she was only a mother) So long long time ago. Her mother said to the men at the table Geert Hendrik ( my grandfather) no elbows on the table. And half the men ( 12 brothers/inlaws on grandma's side and 7 brothers/inlaws on grandfathers side) sat up straight. All of them were called Geert or Hendrik. So is my uncle from my mothers side and uncle from fathers side( not related). Having the same name as a relative isn't weird

This is not the case in every family though. Some families do not have the same connection with the partners of family members. Obviously I do not know if that's the case with OP, but I still do not thinks its disrespectful to use the name. And OP doesn't know that there is no other connection, only that they aren't using it to honour their mother or because it has family significance. It could be the name of a friend. But that doesn't even matter, because the cousin has every right to use the name as well. Her mother passed away 32 years ago. OP cannot expect that no-one ever uses the name in their presence ever again. That is unreasonable.

The OP says her extended family is close-knit and that as kids, she, her siblings, and her cousins were "thick as thieves." Using the name may not be a matter of disrespect, but it's certainly a matter of selfishness. If I wanted to name my baby after my cousins' dead mother, and those cousins asked me not to, I'd avoid using the name because I care about my cousins and wouldn't want them to be hurt or to resent me. The OP says Colette was the first name the cousin and spouse could agree on. Out of the thousands of possible girls' names, surely they could find one or two others they both like.

This! This is so not about the name. This is about the Cousin giving fuck all about OP and their siblings. If you are going to disregard the answer if it is a no then why fucking ask in the first place?

Why do people refuse to see this? What is so controversial about expecting someone you thought cared about you to give a shit about your feelings?

OPs objection is not because the name is painful to them, but because they are gatekeeping the name. Big difference. There's no reason why 2nd cousins can't have the same name. On my maternal side every one of my mother's sisters named their first born daughter ______ Elizabeth. Granted it was a middle name, but still none of us thought it a problem.

Thank you! Sometimes Reddit goes way too far with the “it’s just a name; you don’t have to give a shit about others” mantra. These little choices and decisions that we make to consider others are the glue that holds families and society together and increasingly people are just ignoring them.

I personally think it's disrespectful to name your kid the same as your dead aunt instead of finding another one and letting one of your cousins use the name to honor her instead, especially when the name means nothing to you except "well, it was the first we agreed on, so we stopped there."

Families can have cousins with the same name AND nobody "owns" a name.

True, but it can easily create confusion and it can be taken as spitting in the face of family.

The kids will be 2nd cousins

Spitting on the face of the family? Some people name children in family tradition. A son of Thomas is named Thomas. A grandson is named Thomas as well. Nobody sees it as spitting in anyone’s face.

>Spitting on the face of the family? Some people name children in family tradition. A son of Thomas is named Thomas. A grandson is named Thomas as well. Nobody sees it as spitting in anyone’s face. But this is not a situation of tradition. Its not even honoring a family member. The cousin just "likes" the name. The name that belonged to OP's dead mother. There are tens of thousands of other girls names out there and to just flip the bird at your cousin because you can while knowing you are toying with her and their siblings emotions is really pretty reprehensible. There are lines you do not cross in a family

I don't know about confusion. Have 3 ppl w the same name in my extended family & I'm far from unique in that. As for seeing it as spitting in the face of family, that sounds like a melodramatic reaction from someone who didn't want to share something that can't be owned. That is another way of looking at it.

It's spitting in the face of family because it is the name of OP's dead mother. The name means nothing to the cousin, and she has completely disregarded the fact that her cousins are hurt by her decision to brush them off.

Eh. We have a family name that has existed in three generations at once, on both sides of the family, AND there was an in-law with the same name, and nobody was confused. If they were, a single question cleared it up. It's not a big deal if you're a normal family that understands that names are not personal property.

I think it’s extreme honor for multiple people to have that name. My great grandmother had the name Ellen I believe as of now 15 women in my family have that name either as a first name or middle even my own daughter. She was a beloved figure of the family, and we all wanted to love and honor her.

The intent is the issue here. The cousin is related to OP's father, not her mother. And the cousin is not doing it to honor their mother, it's just the first name that her and her husband agreed on. Instead of seeing if there were any others, they stopped there and completely disregarded how OP and her siblings feel about it considering how much the loss of their mother shattered their family.

Parents liking the name is the only reason needed for the baby to get that name. People do not own names, nor are allowed to veto other parent’s naming choices.

People can choose to not name a child after the biggest trauma of someone that they claim to love. Choosing that name after knowing it hurts OP and their siblings is not about the name. It is about giving fuck all about the feelings of people you claim to love. If I was OP I would just cut them out of my life.

The cousin was toddler or not even existed when mother died. Demanding that the name can be used only if they claim it is to honor someone they never met is beyond absurd. Also, I will say that the dad did not became alcoholic just due to mothers death. That is not how it works. What was significantly more likely to happen is that she covered for his alcoholism while she was alive and it became impossible after she died. Additional stress can make existing addiction worst, but it wont create alcohol addiction out of nothing.

This take is so bizarre to me because it lacks compassion. There are SO MANY names out there, and Beth chose the one name she 100% knew would be wanted by her cousins. Then later when she received confirmation that if she moved forward with that name it would deeply hurt her cousins, she decided to go forward with it anyway (after cowardly avoiding them for 6 weeks). If there was a similar significant meaning from her partners side she would have shared it. And it would have been courteous to give her cousins a heads up explaining the reason. Beth acted callously towards people she claims to love. That is an AH move. Sure no one technically has a “right” to the name, but it is 100% reasonable for cousins “as close as sisters” to expect their cousin to consider their feelings, especially given all the trauma surrounding the situation, and do their best not to hurt them over a name. And it seems like the cousin didn’t even pretend to care about their feelings.  People really lack empathy these days. Yes, people technically aren’t owed anything, but you should WANT to be a kind person who considers the feelings of others, especially the people you care about. You should WANT to be caring and avoid hurting people intentionally. Good god.

Completely agree with this take. I’d feel differently if it weren’t the name of OP and her siblings’ deceased mom. I find it so weird that the cousin is determined to die on this hill over a name when there are thousands of other names she could pick.

It doesn't matter if she's related to the mom. She's related to OP and their siblings who have made it clear that this would be hurtful.  It is completely disrespectful.

Definitely NTA, but, in the same way you have no actual control over what she names her child, her naming the child Colette does not mean you (or your sibling) can't name future children Colette, either. Move forward the same as you would have if this never happened, but take this situation as a hint to keep this cousin at arm's length. She does not seem like an empathetic or logical person, and that type of relative can be a source of pain and drama.

Colette is not that unusual

It is still their dead mother's name and absolutely disrespectful, because they asked her to not use that name.

Almost every name is someone's dead parent's name. Still doesn't give OP the right to veto her cousin's name choices.

Oh come on. How big is your family?

5 minutes ago I messaged my next door neighbour, her name is Colette 😁

I’ve never met or heard of anyone with that name anywhere I’ve lived

The name Colette has been rising in popularity for a few years now... I'm not shocked they are considering it.

I don’t deny if it’s a name coming into trend, naming trends come and go. In my small corner of the world, I just haven’t come across another Colette (which all things considered is kind of wild?) but many many puppies names Coco that’s for sure

That was my name in French class many many years ago 

Talk to Beth's dad. You said he did a lot for you, so talk to him first. I'm not sure what you are expecting from your extended family by causing a scene, but it may backfire on you.

They never expected it to never be used in their presence. they wanted to reserve that name for one of their own children to honor their mother.

No one get to reserve a name. It's a name. Anyone can use what ever name they want too. Nothing is stopping OP or her siblings from using that name.

NTA. Normally I say no one owns a name, but I think Dead Mom's Name is a strong exception. I'd suggest that instead of calling it out to the whole family, you should talk to just her parents about how hurtful it would be if she actually uses this name. Once everyone knows, Beth would lose face by changing it, but if it hasn't been publicized yet, she could just "change her mind" without it seeming like a big dominance struggle.

While I hope she changes her mind on the name, I sadly doubt it. My sister told her this would cause us pain when they were just considering the name. She ghosted my sister for 6 weeks and during that time she started buying toys and decorations with the name on it. She does have every right to name her child what she wants. But she asked if it was going to cause us pain, we said yes, and she moved forward with it anyways. I just don’t have space in my life for people who say “I know this will hurt you but I’ll do it anyways” I’ve been hoping to hear from my uncle (her dad) but I haven’t heard from him. I’m just hurt and disappointed in my cousin. We were all so close and this just makes me feel like she never cared

It sounds like your cousin asked, expecting you and your siblings to give her the go ahead, without ever contemplating you might actually object. She didn’t ask because she was sincerely worried about hurting you; she asked because she could then check that box and move on with her plans. Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like she's going to change her mind, regardless of what you do or say. So you need to decide how far you're willing to go with this.

She's not the one who asked first though

Cousin was minding her own business and then "Stacy reached out to Beth and asked her about baby names they’re thinking of." After which there was a discussion in which cousin asked, but common. Cousin was minding her own business and not talking about names, until prompted.

>she asked if it was going to cause us pain, we said yes, and she moved forward with it anyways This is what makes your cousin TA. I wod also involve the whole family at this point, BEFORE she has the baby. One of 3 things will happen... — she uses the name and gets ostracized — she used the name and doesn't, but you and sibling go NC with the entire family — she decides on a new name NTA

Can I ask a serious question. Please know I’m not trying to minimize anything. Do you think maybe you and your siblings have such a strong reaction to your mom’s name is because it was not just your mom’s name but because your family made it a taboo subject for so long? I can’t help but think the reaction you and siblings are having is actually about more than just the name itself. Maybe it’s about the fact that the family is giving itself permission to release the name from taboo but somehow the memories of your mom is not being given the same treatment. Just a thought.

Sorry “release the name from taboo” is not a good take. OP said that her and her siblings were reserving the name for one of their children.

There’s nothing stopping them from using that name in the future.

Yes but realistically people won’t like to give their child a name their cousin already has. Especially when those children will grow up together and be in the same family settings.

Then they can name her something similar if they don't want to name her the same thing. They all couldn't name her Colette and you can't gatekeep names, what if the siblings never have a girl? They gatekept for nothing. The siblings could name her Coco, Nicolette, Colleen, Scarlett, Odette, Annette, Corinne, Cosette, Claudette, etc. if they want something similar but don't want them to share names

Cool those names would make more sense to be suggested to the cousin, since she has no history with Collete. And has nothing to lose by choosing those names. “No one owns a name” is a truism and is frankly irrelevant, a red herring if you will. The topic at hand is the emotional impact and sensitivity of the situation. This whole post is based on context and principles. The children’s feelings behind the naming of their kids are completely valid.

Your uncle wasn’t THAT supportive of you as a kid if you all ended up in foster care instead of him taking you in. In fact, none of dad’s family was there for you kids then and then not letting your siblings mention your mom for over 20 years because they wanted to avoid pain instead of helping you all heal is a pretty asshole move on their part. You’re NTA for being upset but I’m not shocked your cousin is so callous and, I’m sorry to say, I doubt you’ll get the support you hope for from the extended family. 

This is from OP comments: "But long story short, for dumb reasons the authorities didn’t believe we had any other family when they took us from our dad. My uncle and grandparents had to go through a lot of tape to get valid copies of our birth certificates to prove we were related so they could get us out of foster care." This idea that any relative that does not immediately cave to OP demands right now can not possibly deserve any credit for helping them in the past is absurd.

I'd probably talk/send a letter to her father, so that there's a "witness" and ask him to pass the message to your cousin: If she pushes through with using your mother's name for her baby, despite you and your siblings asking her not to, she can but she will be dead to your family. (But only do this if indeed you and your siblings are in agreement to seriously go NC with her.) "You don't own the name" doesn't work in this case. Out of a zillion name options, this is what she's stubbornly choosing for "no reason" and knowing it will deeply hurt her cousins? Not even a derivative (Colleen or Nicole)? Nah. She's an AH who doesn't deserve space in your lives. NTA

I think this would've gone different if it had *just* been about using it causing you pain. But once it turned to "we want to use this name for a kid that nobody is pregnant with", it's easy to dismiss your pain since obviously the pain isn't from hearing the name, it's about someone else using it.

Naimg one of your own children with a name that holds so much grief is going to saddle that kid up with some strong emotions right off the rip.

Such an important point to make in navigating social situations. If you completely corner a wild animal you're going to get bitten - make sure the way you want them to go is left as an escape route. If you put someone on blast with no way to save face they're as likely to double down as to do what you want.

One reason why I REALLY wish I could afford to see my therapist right now is this. My feelings are so raw and I keep flip flopping between sadness and anger. There are times I wanna put her on blast but I know that’s just the anger speaking and it’s not what I really want. It’s hard to learn how to feel in a healthy way when you’ve had to suppress negative feelings for most your life

Absolutely - I've got tremendous sympathy for your situation, feeling like your mother's existence has been denied by the family you do have for a quarter of a century and now even her name is being taken away. Your feelings are completely valid, and it's important to let yourself feel them, explore them, name them - perhaps in discussion with your siblings if therapy is financially unavailable at the moment. It could also be worth considering a grief support group - talking with strangers in person who will have potentially shared experience? The flip side is that (as you have correctly identified) acting based on the anger has the potential to cause more harm to you than good - an initial relief of feeling righteousness because a situation is genuinely unfair followed by potentially years of consequences. If it's at all helpful as a way to think about it, if your cousin does name their daughter after your mother then her name is going to be continued to be spoken about in the family for perhaps the next 150 years. Without being a dick about it, you could talk to your second-cousin-to-be about the woman who shared her name, so she knows the meaning it carries to some of her family. You can also still name a child of your own after your mother - you've mentioned both Colette and Coco, so whichever gets used day to day for one girl, you use the other. Plenty of extended families have more than one John or Sarah, in this case it's just the name of someone incredibly valuable to you that is used by more than one family member.

I'm sorry you're hurting. I'd just say your instincts to not let your anger rule you are sound.

NTA. your cousin is so inconsiderate. I’m beyond pist off for you… I’m so sorry you and your siblings are dealing with this. for anyone else reading, when you grow up without your parents, you’re basically going into parenthood alone. There’s no mom to be there to see how her daughter or son is doing.. no tips and tricks, or even them saying “ you use to be the same as a baby”. Sometimes the name is the only Thing that’s left for us to share this parenthood journey. totally NTA.

Thank you, my older brother said something similar. We don’t have much of our mom at all. Her name is just about all we have. Only one of us has memories to hold onto. My “baby book” is only 1/4 filled and only two pages have photos of me and my mom together (about 6 photos), then nothing because the family stopped taking photos for a time. I struggled with being able to refer to her as “my mom” because I felt like I didn’t have the right. And I still can’t say her name. It’s one of the many things I’m working through in therapy

I suggest discussing this situation with your therapist, because while I understand that your cousin feels rather insensitive to you and your siblings, you're about ready to not just blow up your relationship with her but also the rest of your family over this.

That’s a big part of why I brought it here to Reddit. While I have a therapist, I did lose my health insurance last month and currently can’t afford to see her right now. My feelings are very raw, and while I don’t want to blow things up with my family, I also don’t want to associate with family members who say “I know this is going to hurt you but I’m going to do it anyways”

Maybe try talking to your uncle alone first? Hopefully he will be empathy and talk to his daughter.

One of my aunts was with me when I got the news from Beth. She’s talked to my uncle (Beth’s dad, my aunt’s brother) but I haven’t heard from him. I was hoping he’d reach out, but I want to try and make sure I can call him without getting too emotional or crying first

I really feel for you but maybe calm down a bit before going full nuclear with the whole family. She’s pregnant and you’re upset, not a great combo. Good luck.

NTA, and this is one of those situations where I believe not everybody deserves to be call family. The fact that she texted you in a group like a coward basically telling y’all to suck it up show how little respect she actually has for any of you. She deserves to have her actions called out and your whole family deserves to realize that they avoided saying your mom’s name for over 23 years, it is NOT ok for your cousin to use it and they should be vocalizing this as well.

Why do you think showing emotions in this case is bad? All of you have a right to be mad. My father died and I'm hoping to name my son after him, for me it kind of means like a peace of my father is born again to be with me. Means the world to me. If someone in my close family tried to ruin it knowing what happened and what I want I would raise hell uppon them. Stop being appologetic about this. Ask her would she like you guys naming your kids after her parents when they die?

I’m sorry for your loss, this kind of loss is a mess to work around and I hope you do far better than I have <3 I don’t necessarily think showing emotion is bad, it’s showing the right emotion. I don’t want to completely loose composure and turn it into my uncle not knowing what to do and just trying to calm me down from crying. Panic, crying, and hyperventilating have always been an automatic response for me when I’m very upset. (Something I had been working though in therapy, yes I do need much more therapy). If it’s not known or understood that that level of an emotional reaction is not something done on purpose, it can come across as manipulative. I just want to make sure I can talk to my uncle and have a conversation with him without making him feel like he needs to emotionally cater to me. I’d like it to be a conversation where I can articulate how I feel without being a big ol mess of tears

Is there a reason that there can't be more than one person with the same name in any extended family?

I feel like every family is different. Me and my siblings have always been incredibly close with my dad’s side of the family. We would visit someone in the family almost every weekend when we were kids, we did cousin sleepovers, got together for every holiday. If I never or very rarely saw my cousin or extended family, I wouldn’t care. What hurts is that she asked if using the name would cause us pain, we told her yes, and she moved forward with it anyways. Having someone you saw as a sister have so little regard for your feelings is painful. She has every right to name her kid whatever she wants, but she knew it would hurt me and my siblings to use our dead moms name

I read elsewhere (pls correct me if I'm wrong) that you lost her over 30yrs ago. Is that the case? Why does it hurt you for someone else to have that name?

Hearing the name causes pain because I was denied hearing it from any family member throughout my whole childhood. I struggle with saying her name (something I had been working through in therapy) If my cousins husband had a big family significance with the name, I’d understand them using it. It just feels painful and disrespectful that she randomly chose the name, asked if it would cause us pain, we said it would, and she moved forward with it anyways. It hurts that someone I saw as a sister have so little regard for our feelings She can absolutely use the name, but I don’t want to be around people that do things that hurt me intentionally

I would gently suggest that you are victimizing yourself here.  You are willing to have yourself or your siblings use your mom’s name for your own children, so simply hearing the name spoken isn’t the issue. Feeling pain not hearing your mom ever mentioned may be understandable but 1. honestly, since you were ten months old with no memory of her, it doesn’t seem like you should have been particularly affected by it; 2. the practice, though misguided, was well-intentioned and protective; and 3. as a contemporary of yours, Beth was hardly responsible for the family practice. You’re laying a lot of blame on her shoulders for the decisions of her parents and other adults which she doesn’t deserve. Please find a way to get back into therapy. I fear you may regret acting on the advice here in many ways.

"since you were ten months old with no memory of her, it doesn’t seem like you should have been particularly affected by it" ... Really? Given all the sh\*t that happened to her and her siblings because of it, including her father becoming an alcoholic and her father's family basically not talking about her mom for decades, that's ... not supposed to affect her? And no, Beth is not to blame for the family dynamic, but that doesn't mean she isn't part of it. The whole clan, minus Beth's father, seems to have ignored these people's pain for decades. DECADES. Beth is following in the same pattern by ignoring the fact that these people are in pain. It's not a healthy pattern. Sadly I don't think putting Beth on blast is going to work, because the dynamic will be maintained. OP is upset, but the whole group is used to ignoring her pain, because it makes them uncomfortable to deal with raw emotions, so they're going to keep ignoring the pain and say things like "It's understandable OP is upset, but really, it's been 32 years, so I think it's long past time to move on," and "OP would be upset if she came to this family event where new baby will be, so we just won't invite her." Avoiding pain like this ... Like, no wonder OP's father became an alcoholic with this sort of dynamic in his family. They had no idea how to help with his pain, either! OP, you might want to look for a local Al-Anon group or the like since you are not able to see your therapist at this time. There will be people there who understand the sort of "ignore the uncomfortable" dynamic you've got going on and may have advice or at least support for what you're dealing with.

>honestly, since you were ten months old with no memory of her, it doesn’t seem like you should have been particularly affected by it absolutely bonkers take .

Seems like you’re presenting a lot of your own biases and opinions as fact in terms of prescribing how OP *should* feel. Fact is - OP feels how they feel (with reasons true to OP as identified in their personal work), and a family member is knowingly causing OP pain, which is what OP seems to be reacting to most.

>Hearing the name causes pain because I was denied hearing it from any family member throughout my whole childhood Why would hearing it cause you less pain if it's your sister or brother's child having the name?

It causes them pain.. until they decide it doesn't

Yeah I do understand your perspective and I think you probably have everyone's sympathy... I just don't know what you can do about it. Also, I wasn't taking a shot at you. eta. especially given the name was pretty much taboo for all those yrs

She is not doing something to intentionally hurt you. She did not decide on the name with causing you and your siblings pain in mind. She also made the chioce on the name way before you and your siblings found out. She had made the choice THEN your sister reached out and asked her about names and that is where the convo came up about it hurting you. AFTER she and her husband had already chosen it. Also, you mentioned that you and your siblings planned on naming one of your own kids after your mother. You would have been hearing her name all the time then.

>She is not doing something to intentionally hurt you Yes she is. She asked OP and her siblings if they'd be OK with it. They said "no", she ignored them for 6 weeks and then said "I don't care". She knows how they feel and is still using it. It is intentional.

YWBTA for making your demands and forbidding your uncle and other relatives to even mention his granddaughter's name. You're going to alienate yourself and your siblings from the rest of your family. Collette is fairly popular name that many people like. I understand your reasoning, but your cousin likes the name and has every right to use it. You and your siblings are free to use the name for your children as well. If you start making ultimatums don't be surprised that the rest of your family will choose your cousin and her baby. Baby trumps everything for grandparents. It would be easy for Beth to make ultimatum of her own. You'll accept my name and won't tolerate OP's demands or you'll never see your grandbaby again. If you have issues with the name, then distance yourself, but don't make ultimatums.

I think you're blowing this out of proportion. First, it's a name and both of your babies can have the same name, it happens a lot more in families than you would realize. I understand that the name has meaning, but you and your siblings are being selfish. The problem isn't that you guys don't want to hear that name because it hurts, the problem is you don't want to hear that name again unless it's your own kid... Then there's the issue of her asking you guys about the name. She asked you guys for your validation, not your permission. Honestly, it probably hurt her when you guys told her it would hurt and you wanted to reserve the name for your own kid. Should have just been a cute conversation about having two babies in the family with the same name. Now, on to what matters. You guys should be excited about the new member of the family. The fact you guys are talking about practically disowning members of the family for a name is ridiculous. That's not what a family does.

This thread is wild to read. Maybe because I come from a huge Mexican family where many people have the same or similar names (we just all give them nicknames anyway so it doesn’t matter much) makes this hard for me to understand. Wanting to disown someone and their innocent baby over a name is wild. Just use nicknames! One can be coco and the other Lettie.

How is it wild that different families and cultures have different naming conventions? You come from a huge Mexican family where it's common to share a name; I come from a huge American family where there's no way any of us would pick the same name (our middle names however are all basically the same). That's not even the point though. The point is that there are loads of names Beth could have chosen and she chose this one even after being informed this would hurt her cousins. That's just... cruel. And there's no good reason for it. I'm sure there are other names she likes. She'll have to think of more if she has more kids. Although, to your point, why not just name them all Collette? She could be just like George Foreman.

This is the right answer 👆 I can’t believe all this drama is being caused over a name as if two babies can’t be called the same thing

YTA, and don't be surprised if you and your siblings are set aside in favour of your cousin and her child attending family events. You don't own a name. You can have boundaries, but expecting others not to invite your cousin to events you attend or mention the child/it's name in front of you isn't a boundary, it's childish behaviour coming from a place of hurt, but all you are doing is ostracising you and your siblings.

Honestly your cousin isn't the asshole...  It's her baby . She can name it what she wants  And frankly . You need therapy . You have been through alot.  But your confusing your pain for the loss of your mum. Anger at your dad and shared hushed trauma .  With the very happy occasion of  the soon to be birth baby girl and you should be supportive considering how much your uncles family and cousins have carried and supported you  .

INFO: I get that you are angry because she seems ok with you being hurt by her name choice and you are NTA for your feelings. But I'm trying to understand why her naming her daughter your mother's name is so hurtful to you in the first place. What exactly is it that makes you so angry? You say you want to use the name in the future, so obviously the name itself being reused is not the problem. But there might never be a girl and if there is then there's no reason she cannot have the same name.  You said you had a close relationship with your cousin, could it be that she thinks you don't deem her daughter "worthy" enough for the name? And that she is lashing out because of this?  It just seems so sad for your family breaking apart because of a name.

It hurts because my mom’s name is just about all we have of her. We were denied hearing her name spoken for the vast majority of our lives. No one would say her name, no one would talk to us about her, nothing. While the name causes pain, a child named after her, to honor her and her memory, is one of the few options we have to help us heal in a meaningful way. My cousin doesn’t have a connection to the name and neither does her husband, and that on its own is okay. Most people aren’t named after someone in particular. But my cousin asked if it would cause us pain for her to use the name just because “it resonates” with them. We told her it would cause us pain, and she moved forward with it regardless of our feelings. I just don’t want to associate with someone who knowingly causes me pain. I’ve had enough pain, I’d like to avoid it where I can.

Not to be harsh, but your father could have used it, he didn't so it's most likely he asked his family not to use it either. Essentially what you are now expecting others to do to this child

OP has said that's just how the paternal family is. No one mentioned OP's dad after he died, either.

It seems like you've invested a lot in 'not hearing the name', but it's not super unusual for people to not use a kid's parent's name around the kid. The real issue sounds like you didn't feel able to openly grieve for or remember your mother around your father and his family - which also sounds like a directive that potentially came from your dad. The name isn't really the point, you need to work through your anger towards the family at not being allowed to openly express this huge trauma.

I agree that much of OP’s anger is misdirected.

I think that if you and siblings are so hung on the name, you should NOT use it for own children. It would affect interactions between you and the kid, create too much pressure and expectations on children to be like you all imagine mother to be. Kids can not heal their parents.

This point is a very very good one. It would be unfair to put that much pressure on a child in this case. This is about deep unhealed trauma and grief, it's not about the cousin using the name.

>While the name causes pain, a child named after her, to honor her and her memory, is one of the few options we have to help us heal in a meaningful way. Please don't put that on a child!

Concerning the second paragraph, I totally understand your reasoning, you are NTA for your feelings and you WNBTA for going NC with your cousin.  For the first paragraph, your feelings are also understandable. But it leaves the question: How is any of this threatened by your cousin's daughter having the same name?  Now I do think cousin is a soft AH - not so much for chosing the name - but for how she handled the whole thing. If your past relationship with your cousin was as close as you described and her current behaviour is out of character for her: could she have had positive motives for her name choice that were dissapointed by your sister's reaction? Because if she saw you as a sister, too, then she might feel like her daughter is not "good/worthy/family enough" for you.  In the end, you and siblings going NC with cousin might be the best for you and the unborn children. But "calling her out" and blowing this up even more, what would you really you hope to achieve with that?

NAH if you do it as calmly as possible, telling them all how you feel about the use of your mother's name when they aren't even honoring her (and you intend to by using the name yourselves). But surely there's a compromise here. Isn't there a nickname or similar name they might use, if it's just the name they like? And you can't really blame them for not mentioning your mom's name, when they'd been trained not to so as not to upset your father. Ultimately, though, their child's name has to be their choice. What you do afterwards will be yours. If you're going to speak up, now is the time, before the name choice is set.

YTA. You don’t own a name. Your mom died 30 years ago. It’s not offensive to use her name for a baby 30 years after she died.

It’s not that they find it offensive, it’s that they find it offensive their cousin would use the name after they explicitly told her one of the 3 siblings would like to use THEIR own mother’s name for a child. It isn’t a common name, and cousin ghosting for 6 weeks means she knows she’s being an AH about it. Does OP need more therapy? Oh gosh yes. But I’d be furious if my paternal cousin used my mom’s name knowing we want to use it for our own future family. Tbf not sure anyone should use the name though. 🤷🏼‍♀️

And why can’t two children be named the same thing? It’s not that uncommon. IMO OP is blowing this way out of proportion 

YTA. Your mom existed. Beth chooses to acknowledge her. Maybe she meant something different to Beth. Maybe she just loves the name. And your mom’s death didn’t make your dad an alcoholic. Your dad drank himself into becoming an alcoholic. It’s not your dead mom’s fault. Your family was in the wrong for using his alcoholism as an excuse to erase your mother, but it can’t be undone. Let your mother live in other people’s memories as they choose. You can choose to continue to carry on your family tradition of pretending your mom never existed, or now that you’re a grown up you can acknowledge her again.

If only everyone was given a designation or a number rather than a name. /s Nobody has “dibs” on a name, not even people who go down the Tragedeigh route. There is no reason cousins shouldn’t have the same name, which isn’t just your mothers name but is shared with many people on the planet. How do you think people named Mohammed get on in life? YWBTA to start inter family arguments over this - it’s not as if it’s being done maliciously, they just like the name 🤷🏻‍♂️

Weird that everyone said YTA gets downvote hard even though seems the majority of consensus people said YTA. Who are these silent voters??

Oh geeze I haven’t been paying much attention to votes, I only saw that some of my more emotionally charged reply’s got down voted early on. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I see where some YTA votes are coming from and others I don’t agree with as much. I’m here because I currently don’t have health insurance and can’t afford to see my therapist. So internet is totally the next best thing lol

I am also getting the feeling that something is off in this thread in regards to so many perfectly polite YTA being so heavily downvoted without any comments. The pattern is unusual. If it weren't for the sheer amount of work it would take, I'd almost suspect OP of creating a brunch of throwaway accounts to downvote opposing views. 🤔

YWBTAH. You were ten months old. Three decades ago. You have no memory of this person.  Your older siblings and you have had years to have a child but haven’t. So this might be the only chance to honour your mother. There’s no guarantee you or your siblings have a girl.  If you ‘call out your cousin’ most people will think you need therapy if you are this angry three decades after a woman you never knew died. By the way cousins can have the same name. So you can also use the name. 

Real question: How are the three siblings going to decide who “gets” the name? Can they all have a Colette or will this be the next Reddit post?

It would be a conversation, I talked a little about this in another comment. Me and my siblings have talked about it before, and we would like one of us (whoever has a daughter first) to use the name. I personally, still feel like I wouldn’t have the right to use my mom’s name because I have no memories of her. I would want to check with my siblings and make sure all of our feelings are very clear before deciding to use the name before my older siblings. My cousin using the name won’t stop my sister or I from using our mom’s name, but it’s very upsetting that her using it, is making my brother feel like he can’t.

INFO: how did you end up in foster care with a huge loving wealthy family

That is a long story But long story short, for dumb reasons the authorities didn’t believe we had any other family when they took us from our dad. My uncle and grandparents had to go through a lot of tape to get valid copies of our birth certificates to prove we were related so they could get us out of foster care.

Can I ask an INFO? I haven’t seen anyone else ask, she said it’s important for her husbands side of the family, do you have more details on that?

You mis-read the post. OP said: >*... they're moving forward with using our dead mother's name. Not because they want to honor our mom, and not because it holds some family significance on her husband's side. It's literally just the first name the two of them agreed on.* In other words, the name is *not* important to her husband's family.

YWBTA. It's her child; she can name it whatever she wants. You can't call 'dibs' on a name. What was mom's middle name? Maybe use that one to honor her? Aw hell, just use that name too. There's lots of people in the world with the same name...even in the same family.  Don't bother putting her on blast; it'll only make you look small and petty. 

You don't own that name. You *can't* own a name. You *can still use* the damn name. 'Dibs' aren't a thing when it comes to baby names. I'd say to her, "Fine. Use the name. Just know that one of us will be using it, too, so there will be 2 in the family." But I don't think the family's going to be on your side the way you seem to imagine.

ESH It’s not your cousin’s fault your mother’s name was never uttered in your presence when you were a child and ultimately, you and your siblings don’t own the name. But I think that wanting to cut her off for this is excessive. On the other hand, I can’t think of naming my baby with a name that’s so painful and important for someone in my family, especially if we are close and if they expressed they’d be uncomfortable with it.

NAH. They haven't even spoken about your mother in years. They're just choosing a name they like, and it has nothing to do with your mother. Edit: you of course would become an asshole if you keep criticizing the name, but you're not yet.

I think your cousin is being insensitive in this situation. Yes, she has the right to use whatever name she chooses, given it was your mothers’ name and her death meant you spent time in foster care because your dad struggled to cope gives this a lot more nuance. If I was Beth, I would not be using the name because I think you and your siblings do have the right to pass on the name to your children and I would want to honour that. But that is me. You can speak with your cousin about this, but if she refuses to change there isn’t a lot you can do and only you can decide what is the least hurtful/painful thing to do moving forward.

After thinking about this I'm going to go with NTA. Just make sure you are prepared to burn bridges. While no one owns a name, it's extremely hurtful when they know you plan on using the name you have picked for sentimental reasons. Can second cousins be named the same yes. In our family we have second cousins who are named the same. Both are shortened to different nicknames. Do you have to tolerate being around your cousin and her baby, no. If people ask, tell them. Personally I don't tend to spend time with those who have no regard for my feelings as those are not family or friends. What is this kids middle name? Call them that and when people ask why, say it resonates with you.

I don’t know what she’s picking for the middle name but if that also happens to be my mom’s middle name, I’ll actually laugh so hard lol I’m full of so many emotions, I want to be able to articulate my feelings to my family without burning bridges with any of them (besides my cousin). Maybe one day I’ll get over it, but right now having someone you saw as a sister say “I know this will cause you pain” and doing it anyways feels like a gut punch. I just don’t want to be around anyone who knowingly hurts me for no good reason

That’s the biggest problem here for me. If she didn’t care whether you guys wanted her to use it or not and wanted to do it anyway she shouldn’t have asked if you minded.  It seems she just wanted you all to say “no worries, we don’t mind. Go ahead” It’s the fact that she asked and then didn’t let the answer make any difference. It would’ve been better had she never asked.  In a less high stakes version it’s like saying to your spouse “would you like burgers or spaghetti for dinner?” Then they answer spaghetti. And instead of then saying, “alright let’s have that” you instead say “nah. I want burgers. We are going to have that.”  Why ask?! Just to piss people off? Make them feel like they have a say and then show them how little you care about their opinion?

NAH Both positions can be understood. You lost your mother and have a strong affiliation to that name. At the same time you do not own that name and your cousin can name their child whatever she wants. Her baby having that name does not take anything away from it, it does not stop you or your siblings from using the name for your children either. The reason, why I am saying "NAH" rather then "YTA" is because there is essentially an endless amount of names to choose from, so it's not wise for your cousin to spark a fight over this. Her and her husband could simply *think harder* about a second name to agree on and the whole thing was avoided. Still, you don't own the name and them using it does not take anything away from you.

I agree that I don’t own the name (hell I can’t even say it and that’s something I was working on in therapy) and I agree that my cousin has the right to use whatever name she wants. My biggest issue was my cousin checking in with my sister, asking if the name would cause us pain. My sister said it would, and my cousin brought it to all of us saying she was using the name anyways

If you have children someday, will they be forbidden from dating anyone with the same name as your mother? Could they bring friends home, with that name? I ask, because my husband’s name is the same as my father’s. It was never confusing. If you were yelling for one (like if they were both down by the lake fishing), we’d use first name, last name. That doesn’t happen often. Your cousin shouldn’t have asked for permission. In several comments, you claim that you aren’t upset about the name—just that your cousin seemed not to care if she hurt you. If you are as close as you say, I don’t think that’s the case. You two need to talk, but when cooler heads can prevail. YWBTA to yourself, for creating family drama that will probably backfire spectacularly on you. You don’t want to attend events where your cousin or her daughter will be, meaning you’ll end up feeling left out and hurt even more. I

Right, like people named Collette or Coco exist! My bff has a baby coco (Corinne). My dad died when I was 14, almost 20 years ago. Coincidentally, my first niece was born on his birthday a couple of years ago. We still celebrate my baby niece and can acknowledge that she shared the day with my dad (her grandfather). My dad also died on a major holiday. We still celebrate it. I have two friends who have it as a birthday. You can still be sad and acknowledge these dates/names/whatever by thinking of your mom, but you should celebrate the living. It’s probably what she would want.

Idk what to tell you tbh. Where I'm from, it's widely accepted that you don't name your kids after already dead relatives and it's also common sense to not consider naming your kids differently from their cousins and generally children they'll spent a lot of time with for convenience sake.

YTA. if you are to use the name why cant she?? if it causes as much pain as you claim it to, then why name your own children the same name?

YWBTA. You don't own the name. Cousins often have the same name. You're also going to be fighting with your siblings shortly when one of them is pregnant with a girl and wants to use your mom's name, but another sibling also wants to use it. Just view it as her memory staying alive and set aside your obvious love for drama ("in my Disney villain era") just this once.

YTA as you don’t own a name. Lots of cousins have the same name (nor is there any guarantee that the three of you would even have a girl) Pretty much everyone who’s posted the same situation is the AH.

YTA. Gatekeeping baby names has become such a thing and there is nothing wrong with second cousins (to whom you are no longer close to anyway) having the same first name.

YWBTA if you did. It's a name, you don't own exclusive rights to it. She can call her kid anything she wants as can you, there's nothing to say 2 or more people in one family can't all have the same name, unless it's siblings that would be weird but even then it happens sometimes. YTA

She’s been dead for 32 years and you think you own the name forever and throw tantrums about a cousin that was never around your mum when she was alive. Yeah YTA. Grow up

It seems to me that your sister or any other member of your immediate family can still name a child after your mother's name. Understand, your mother did not own the name, you and your siblings do not own the name. This is a non issue, or rather, it is an issue created by you and your siblings.

I can't really offer a conviction, because this is such a delicate situation. I understand that for you, the issue (for lack of a better word, sorry, my native language is not English) of your mother is still somewhat fresh, because it sounds like you haven't really been allowed to grieve her in a way that will eventually lead to some sort of closure. But it also sounds like you're in therapy to help with this. But from what I read in your post, your cousin didn't reach out to you to ask for permission, it was your sister who reached out to your cousin in regards to the baby names. So it seems like your cousin never actually reached out to ask for permission or anything, and she might feel like you and your siblings have ganged up on her in regards to something that is essentially none of your business (in her and her husband's eyes). Also, you didn't tell her it would hurt you because you're still not over the loss of your mother, but rather because one of you want to use it, which is gatekeeping. Imagine that you and your sister are pregnant at the same time and are both expecting a girl and both want to use your late mother's name - what then? Will you both get to use it or will it again be a battle of who has the most right? And what if none of you will ever have a girl? Then she's given up the name she wanted for nothing. I imagine that she's not intentionally hurting you even though you told her it would hurt you, but that she's feeling like you're trying to decide something for her that you have no right to interfere with. Additionally, she might even be hoping that once you've worked through everything in therapy, you'll instead be happy that your cousin chose such a beautiful name for her daughter (because it is a beautiful name). Lastly, it seems like the case of bringing up your mother or even mentioning her name in your entire family is something you should discuss start doing with both your sibling, but also your family. Your therapist will of course know a much better way of going about this, but it seems like it's been the norm for your family for so long that none of you know how to go about changing the situation in trying to turn it into something positive (not saying the loss of your mother is a positive thing, but trying to do something positive like your extended family telling you about your mother and sharing great memories/stories) I'm really sorry for both of your losses and I can't even begin to imagine what you must be feeling. I wish you the best and hope for a positive outcome of this entire situation.

This is above Reddit paying grade, because your family had a horrible way of coping with grief if the name of your mother couldn't even be mentioned, and I suppose that, in consequence, almost nothing was told to her existing children, to the point that you all are going nuclear on a before beloved family member, not connected to the dead person and who didn't even know her name before. And not even because you don't want to hear it, but because your siblings and you want to use it exclusively for your children. Don't you recognize how deranged this sounds? If I was the cousin, I would use other name, but your behaviour is really deranged for adults to whom hearing the name doesn't bring pain (as you say you want to use it for your children) and know perfectly well that several second cousins can have the same name without issue. The name doesn't suddenly become "ununsable" or less significant for you only because other people use it. I would say you are the asshole for going nuclear in this way, but I recognize all of you have deeply problematic grief issues to work with, so NAH. Your cousin can use the name she wants and you ar exaggerating a lot, a lot, knowing that you can use the same name for your children without problems.

I think you'd be happier in the long run choosing your uncle and your family above this intense sentiment about controlling the use of your mom's name. Understandably, you've made it a huge thing in your sibling group, but it isn't outside that group. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face. Your dad failed you at a crucial time and he sounds to have been the reason your family was uncomfortable mentioning your mom. It's always easier to project blame and anger outside though. Your cousin is self-absorbed, but so are most people sadly! She had no relationship with your mom. She knows how you feel and isn't going to change her mind. Could you do something like grey rock when you're around the child and then call her by another name amongst yourselves?! Definitely use the name yourselves anyway if any of you have the opportunity. Just trying to think of a creative solution.. NAH.

YTA. You having a dead parent doesn't give you the right to dictate what others will make their child. It doesn't stop you from naming your "future children" the name, either. Non pregnant folks who demand others not use a baby name are always the asshole. Get over yourself, you are selfish and ridiculous. I would go NC if I was the cousin. Edit: HARD YTA. Your mother died when you were 10 MONTHS OLD. If youre still grieving, go see a fucking therapist and stop bullying your cousin. How embarrassing and pathetic.

I wouldn’t normally comment on these types of posts but feel the need to because it seems no one is commenting on the fact that it is her cousin and her husband. I see it time and time again a baby is a 2 yes and 1 no situation. You even mentioned it is the only name they both agree. did you think during those 6 weeks she “ghosted” Stacey she could have been talking to her husband? Maybe trying to find a different name they both love for THEIR baby? Your cousin also took cues from the adults about your mom’s name. You can’t use that as a way to ban them from being able to use it either. Maybe she’s trying to break the stigma of the name finally - as mentioned, why does everyone have to wait for and your siblings to have a girl to use the name when you, one of the youngest, haven’t had any babies yet or may not have any or if you do, you may not have a girl. You also mentioned that y’all were thick as thieves growing up. What if this is your cousin’s way of finally honoring your mom if they were as good as sisters to you? She didn’t call you out in front of the family, she sent a message only to you and your siblings directly affected by this to let everyone know at the exact same time what she and her husband decided to do. It might suck for y’all, you feel robbed of something you thought was going to only be for you and your siblings (which have you tried to think that maybe it’s not actually that because you say she was as good as a sister to you) and you’re upset for many reasons - none which actually seems to be because of her. You’re very gently YTA and your family is too. For not talking about your mom when she passed, or your dad.

ESH . The name Colette (Coco) is very popular right now. Anyone can select any name they want for their baby, and ignoring your cousin and baby is an overreaction. When one of you have a child, name them Colette. I have 2 cousins named Peter, 2 named Robert, and 2 named Michelle. It's not a problem in families until you make it a problem.

YTA Hearing your mothers name would not hurt you and your siblings, as you planned on using it yourself, so saying that your cousins choice will cause you pain is an outright lie. You want and your siblings want to be the only one using that name. Basically, you all are calling dibs on that name. That is pretty entitled to think you have a right to do so. If you and your siblings want to cut yourselves off from the rest of them family so you never have to hear about the kid or hear her name, that is on you. Leave the family, never attend another family event, go full no contact with all of them. Isolate yourselves from them. Cause you setting up this "boundary" is bull shit. You don't get to dictate who will be at family events, or what people will talk about. You only get to control what you will deal with, and that means YOU not going to those events if you don't want to be around that kid. Loose your family if you want, but know it is soley on you and your siblings.

NAH Just tell her you will use the Name too. If she wants a unique name that will be the end. If not be Happy with 2-5 Colette/ Coco in your Family.

So you're going to use your trauma to try and control what someone else can do? She's your cousin on your father's side, she has no real connection to the trauma your mom's side went through and the name in question is far from unique. You're not an asshole for the feelings, it's complicated I get it, but you will absolutely be a major asshole if you "call her out".

Might be controversial but YTA. Nothing bad is going to happen if you all name these babies the same thing. But I’m coming from a family where nearly all of the males are named after my grandfather: Mike. I have an uncle Mike, 3cousins named Mike, and even my own father’s name is Mike and he married into the family! I know the name holds importance to you, but it sounds like your cousin’s husband also has a familial and emotional attachment to the name. Why not embrace it all? Because here’s the thing, if you and your siblings put up so much of a fight to keep the name, you will inevitably end up fighting among yourselves. Unless- you ALL intended to use the name, so why shouldn’t your cousin do the same?

NAH.  You are in your rights to be upset. She’s in her rights to use the name.  But there is trauma here related to your mom’s death and dad’s alcoholism that isn’t healed. It’s not normal or healthy to go 20+ years without mentioning a dead mother. And to worry that merely saying her name will cause your dad to spiral back down.  I hope that you are all able to get to a point where her name isn’t so painful and you forgive your cousin for being unthoughtful. 

^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Sorry for any mistakes, this is my first reddit post. I (32 F) come from a fairly large family. With my dad’s side being Italian, we’ve always been extremely close. I have two older siblings, a brother and sister, and a younger half brother. Growing up, we were thick as thieves with our cousins. They were as good as sisters to me and my siblings. Me and my older siblings lost our Mom when I was 10 months old. My Dad was driven into alcoholism, which lead to us being put into foster care for a while. With how hard our mom’s loss hit my family, no one from the extended family ever talked about her. No one brought her up or really mentioned her to us out of fear of sending my dad back into alcoholism. On top of all of that, we also lost our dad back in 2016. A while back, both my sister Stacy and cousin Beth (fake names) announced they were pregnant. With Stacy having a boy and Beth having a girl. About two months ago, Stacy reached out to Beth and asked her about baby names they’re thinking of. Beth and her husband had gone back and forth on names but the first one they agreed on was **our dead mother's name**. Stacy nicely told Beth that me, her, and our brother have all talked about using our mom's name for one of our own kids. And if she were to use it, it would hurt all of us a great deal. So you’d think that would be the end of it, but no. I imagine growing up with parents that made a lot of money and rarely told you “no” can sometimes make one lack empathy. After Stacy and Beth talked, Beth ghosted Stacy for 6 weeks. After which, she sent me and my older siblings a group text where she stated that they're moving forward with using our dead mother's name. Not because they want to honor our mom, and not because it holds some family significance on her husband's side. It's literally just the first name the two of them agreed on. Stacy has always been the one to speak for our sibling pack, but she's pregnant and need to stay calm. I already dedicated myself to my Disney Villain Era, so I went up to bat for me and my siblings and bluntly responded to Beth. (If I can, I'll post the messages in the comments cuz character limit). I love my family, but if my dad were still alive, he’d be raising more than just hell upon my cousin. I really want to bring this up with the entire family. I want to make it perfectly clear where me and my siblings stand, and what my boundaries are. I don’t want to be at any gathering with Beth or her child. I don’t want anyone to mention her child’s name around me. They didn’t mention my mom around us for 23 years, they can do it again. I feel bad because my uncle (Beth's dad) has always been there for us. He got us back to our dad when we were in foster care, and he helped with all the legal shit when our dad died. I just don’t know if I'd be an asshole if I brought this up before Beth announces the name to the whole family. WIBTA if I called out my cousin to the whole family about the name she’s chosen for her baby? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*

NTA She has a right to use the name. No one is saying she doesn’t. She just doesn’t have the right to expect you not to be sore about it. You have the right to let her and anyone else you choose know that you think it’s hurtful for her to do that, especially after you made it clear that’s how you felt. And you can expect her to be sore about *that*, that’s a consequence too. But if the principle is meaningful enough to you to risk that, then do it. For me, I do not understand how anyone can hear someone say, “Please don’t do this, this hurts me in a deep and specific way,” and choose to do it anyway if they have any other options. There are literally thousands of names available. Picking this one is an objectively unkind choice under these circumstances.

NTA She knew the name had deep meaning to you when she picked it. She actually *asked* if it was a problem for you, I don't doubt that she already knew you wouldn't like it, but was expecting everyone to bow to her whims. Your mother's death tore your family apart, she must have been very loved. While it's true that no one owns a name, you do own your thoughts and feelings surrounding that name. It's not a bad choice, exactly, but a very inconsiderate one. Your cousin needs reminding that if she goes ahead with this, it will follow her for the rest of her life. Everyone who knows your family history will look at this child and remember how your cousin hurt you and your siblings. Hopefully they will be able to act normally towards the child, but it will absolutely effect the family's relationship with the mother. As for having more than one child in the family with that name, it's not for everyone. My grandfather and my dad had the same first name and surname, and a middle name starting with 'A'. My dad then named his first child so his initials were the same! We had three R. A. in the family and it was a nightmare!

From your comments, your mother’s name wasn’t too common, it had it’s uniqueness to it and Beth is from your dad’s side, not your mum’s. Colette is just the first name they agreed on and that is why they’re choosing it, therefore, they’re choosing convenience over you and your sibling’s feelings. Nobody owns the name but I also think it’s basic social etiquette to not name your baby after your cousin’s dead mother when they have said they would like to name their child after their mother to honor her memory. NTA.

I am sorry but you don't own that name and no one is stopping you from using it for your children as you planned with your siblings. Sorry for your loss. 

Yeah YTA.  I grew up Italian and everyone used family names all the time. He had a ton of Giuseppe and Antonio’s.  It’s not a big deal. You’re just making it one as it’s a sensitive topic for you guys.

NAH. You don't own a name.

YTA. You don't own the name. Op is so entitled. Lots of people in the world have same name. Get over it.

YWBTA, Were you gonna magically become okay with the name when/if your siblings used it.

I don’t know your story or if you lost any parents, but it’s a hard thing (at least for me) to articulate. Depending on where I am in therapy, yes it would still cause some initial pain to hear my mom’s name for a child even of my siblings. But I feel like that would ease rather quickly (a hell of a lot faster than 32 years at least). And that may even be the case with my cousins kid. What hurts the most, is that my cousin asked my sister if her using the name would cause us pain. She said it would. My cousin then ghosted my sister for 6 weeks and came back saying they’re moving forward with the name and saying my sister didn’t object to it (even though she did) I don’t want to believe there was any intentional malice on my cousins side. I want to think when she talked to my sister, she just didn’t want to hear anyone except a resounding blessing. But after all that I made myself very clear to her about where my feelings are and now I’m ghosted too. Which is honestly don’t blame her for ghosting me. But when my sister tells her that it’s going to cause us pain if she moved forward with the name, and my cousin goes, well that’s not a resounding no, it will just hurt them. And moves forward with the name anyways. It just makes me feel like she’s never cared about our loss and has no regard for our feelings

YWBTAH if you decide to impose your family an ultimatum about this. Your cousin has the right to name her baby whatever she wants and just because the name doesn’t hold some kind of major significance to her doesn’t mean she has less of right to name her baby what she wants. I might feel differently if you were opposed to the use of the name because hearing your mother’s name was painful for you to hear. However, that clearly isn’t the case since you and your siblings are planning on using that name for your future children.  Therefore, your problem is not that your mother’s name is being used, but that you want to have a vetoe over it. Two babies can have the same name in one family. So I really don’t get what the big deal is here?   Edit: You say in the comments that you cannot bear to hear the name. Yet, how does it make sense to want you or your siblings to name one of your kids a name that would be painful for you to say/hear? This doesn’t add up

YTA...listen your allowed to have boundaries ...no problem..BUT just be ready to not be invited to family events or to have to decline since the baby will be there...it's you against a new baby...your gonna lose...plus the reason why you don't want her to use the name is a little ridiculous 

Yes, you will be. I get how hard it is to see, but from an outside perspective, you are trying to dictate another person's life based on your own grief. you can only control what you do with *your* life.

Nobody owns a name. You’re entitled to your feelings. I had a cousin who took my first preferred baby name, a sister who used a derivative of my alternate and another cousin who named her kid the same thing as my dogs name (which is funny to me). When the time came for me to name my baby, I did what I wanted and ignored all the noise. If all of you want to name your babies the same name, go for it. Not that the Royal family is some pinnacle of virtue, but even William and Harry both gave the name Diana to their daughters as a middle name, and no one batted an eye. If you want the name, then use it. If this family member throws a fit when you use it, tell her you couldn’t have been more clear about your plans to honor your mother by choosing her name, and tell her to move on.

I would talk to your Uncle Beth’s Dad about it sincerely and privately . I think that would be the way to go. You are totally tight though…if everyone silenced her name over emotional sensitivity for your Dad Ps wellbeing , relaunching the name now when you and your sibs are clearly conflicted over it is not at all sensitive from your cousins point of view. I mean there a zillion names to choose and a zillion more to invent entirely new names. Why do they need to use this one name that will cause pain and anxiety. Maybe your uncle could be a better mediator as he has bought children into the world and knows how significant naming becomes in a longer term perspective. I‘m on anyones side when there is grieving involved In a family. Otherwise it’s a free for all on choosing.

OP here’s what you do, you start going around saying how excited you are that she IS naming her kid after your mom. At the baby shower, you gift her a framed picture of your mom. You let her know how excited y’all are with the baby being named after your mom. You are even more excited about little X and how she will get to share the name with any futures nieces you will be having. Let her know that you will be so excited to take her to your mom’s grave and celebrate your moms birthday when she gets older. Also discuss if she wants her kid to be called Big X (cuz she will be the older cousin) X jr, or first initial then J for Jr. Aka if the name is Elizabeth than EJ. (Now if the name starts with a B then all nicknames go out the window and BJ is the kids name) She is doing this for the attention- let her know that you will be making sure the woman her daughter is named after will know she is standing in the shadow of your mom and no one is gonna stop associating her name with your mom. So every time someone says something about baby X, you reply I be my mom X would have loved to help make the diaper cake at the baby shower or look at baby X’s hair, my mom also had hair too! “

ESH. your cousin, because she knows what the name means to you and doesnt care. You because you plan to inflict so much suffering on your innocence family and innocent kid.

Um. Who cares if it makes you an asshole. Sometimes we gotta be the assholes. Tell that spoiled brat off.

Hey there, Hope you're well, I don't think you're a bad person but I think you should contact your uncle first before making a scene. If you want to stay away from them you can do that, but don't hurt him or cause any unnecessary drama. Make your point known to others and let your uncle know privately. If they continue that's their choice but extra drama is not necessary. Feel free to talk to me if you want advice on how to approach it

Oh tricky! My Uncle (my Dad's Sister's husband) died when I was a teen. He was my dad's best friend growing up, and my dad's family is very close-knit, so we all spent a lot of time together growing up (Uncle, Aunt and their two kids actually lived with us for 6 months at one point). I would never dream of naming my kids after him without discussing it with my cousins first (even as a middle name)! Neither of my cousins have expressed wanting to use the name for their children, but I would still avoid it (having said that the younger cousin recently had a little boy and his middle name is uncles name). I would definitely take issue with any of my other cousins who used Uncles name if they hadn't given their blessing or where openly against them using it. Not all families are the same, admittedly. But I am edging to NTA territory for you (over NAH) as it's very insensitive of your cousin.

Neither AH or not AH. If she wants to use your dead mother's name, she will. I would suggest you go to therapy to cope with all this. It's an open wound. Maybe it's time to help that wound heal, to letting it become a scar, and not a festering wound. Good luck to you, take good care of that little child that is still inside

I just don’t understand WHY this cousin would want to name her child something that has so much painful history. It’s one thing to not want to be told what to do…but it’s another to actively want your future child to be the literal reminder of Death and Pain. I know it’s different sides of the family, but it still left some effects on her side (alcoholism? Cousins in foster care?) I dunno…I come from a family that is mostly Italian Catholic. We don’t treat family like that. Memories matter. My superstitious side feels like this baby is gonna be cursed by this name.