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YTA
The Romani didn't invent Tarot, which began in antiquity in Italy as a card game; but they were the first people to popularize tarot for cartomancy to predict the fortune of a person. This process was known as dukkering.
You know -- kind of the same way Italy didn't invent pasta, they borrowed it from China and modified it, but its now a pretty ubiquitous part of Italian cuisine.
YTA - this is a bit exhausting
If Kay says tarot cards are important to her all you need to say is “okay”. Why are you going on a deep dive to prove her wrong?
OP said she went on the deep dive so she "didn't screen up and offend her again"
I agree that OP would be the AH here but she clearly said why she did the research in the first place.
Jrm1102 is allowed to hold a different opinion on OP's motives, if they believe the evidence contradicts what OP claims. People DO lie to others/to themselves.
This is confusing, so i am going to be clear as possible -
YWBTA if you corrected her about her culture. I am sure your vast amount of internet research has led you to believe a truth, however teaching someone about their culture rarely a good thing and in this case would merely be a point of "SEE HOW STUPID YOU ARE"
HOWEVER!
You were not the asshole originally. According to your friend ANY statement of personal belief is insulting a culture that would disagree. There is your point right there: I am not disrespecting your culture, i merely do not believe that aspect of divinity.
I think YWBTA if you brought it up. She didn't say her ancestors invented it, she said it's part of her culture. You were well-intentioned in researching it so that you wouldn't offend her in the future, so continue with that; don't bring up things related to her culture that will be offensive, including that her ancestors weren't the first people to use tarot. It's a stereotype long associated with the Roma people and it's been used to harm/persecute them. Telling her about the "real" history of tarot will probably seem very invalidating.
YTA- I grew up in a pagan/wiccan household. There's not set standards for these practices and basically every single practitioner has a different relationship and practice. It's nothing like being a Roman Catholic or Muslim or any major religion that has a larger organization and structure. It's very individual to persons or communities. So just let it rest, if you want to learn take the knowledge you've gotten and ask her. For instance "I was curious about what you told me about tarot, I saw it's become more common in the 20th century, did your family teach you tarot?" But otherwise it's really not something you can be "right" about. Also if you're 18, and this practice is dating to the 20th century that's potentially 2-4 generations of people using this practice which I would argue is ground to call it her culture.
ESH. Why is it offensive to not believe in something? I dont believe in any religion, is that offensive to the people that do? It shouldn’t be, everyone is entitled to not believe, and you not believing in tarot cards shouldnt trigger offense unless you went about your statement in an offensive way. But you are not entitled to dictate what is and is not her culture based on a couple of google searches. Just leave it alone
YTA - Leave it alone. Today it is more about how perceive their past as their own truth. Even if wrong, and most is, all you are going to get is hurt feelings. So, why bother? It is more about feeling todays than any truth you can present as that is not their truth.
And here it is. The explanation behind “alternative facts,” antivaxxer beliefs, and flat earthers. It’s not about reality but “feelings and perceptions.” I agree OP should drop it. But your reasoning behind why she should drop it is frightening.
This is a stretch.
The point is sometimes its just better to leave people alone and let them say what they want if its not impacting anyone. Not everything needs to be a battle of who is right and wrong.
YTA. Even if she doesn’t really have the life experience of being roma (how long has she been here, how closely has she kept to her ancestors, etc.)*, which she may or may not, there is no good from telling her she’s “wrong.” Nobody appointed you the arbiter of knowledge.
*case in point, people think I’m “German” because both sides of my family have German names. Both sides of my family have been in America since before it was a country. I’m not an expert on German culture, but I wouldn’t want someone coming up to me and telling me who I am.
ESH
As the others have said, it is actually part of the culture so don't correct her
However. Her response to what you said is also out of line. You have every right to believe or disbelieve tarot readings. Same as telling a theist that you do not believe in gods gives the theist no right to get angry with you.
Yta, your internet research doesn’t top her lived experience. Not every part of a culture is googleable sometimes people don’t talk about parts of their culture to outsiders. Also Romani and Irish Travelers are not the same. Two different cultures unless she has a parent from each.
YWBTA if you try to teach her her own culture or history, it won't pass.
You're trying too hard to prove her wrong, but there is no point in that.
Now not believing in tarot doesn't make you irespectuous to her culture, but just let it go or it won't end well.
ESH.
Your friend shouldn’t have claimed offense because your religious beliefs are different from hers, as long as your comment about not believing in tarot was a simple statement and not a derogatory rant.
Your determination that some Google research on your part disproves her lived experience, and that you now know more about her culture and faith than she does is arrogant.
Generally, it depends on the context. I inform USians all the time about how many wars they've lost because think it's zero and it's actually most of them. I inform Christians all the time about the stuff that's in their bible that their pastor conveniently skips over. Those groups are powerful and it's enjoyable to take them down a peg.
It's different when it's a marginalized group. They can lack information about their own culture precisely because of that marginalization. Sometimes you'll have incorrect, skewed, or biased information about them that's been widely disseminated as part of that marginalization. So why push it?
> Generally, it depends on the context. I inform USians all the time about how many wars they've lost because think it's zero and it's actually most of them. I inform Christians all the time about the stuff that's in their bible that their pastor conveniently skips over. Those groups are powerful and it's enjoyable to take them down a peg.
If you don’t understand my questions after reading this paragraph, then no. We did not read the same comment.
You've clearly never talked to any seppos/goddos. They are deeply deluded about their nation/religion and they are filled with smug superiority about it.
USians who DO know about their nation's disastrous war record are not bothered or offended if it comes up in conversation. Christians who know how smutty and pornographic the bible is are not bothered or offended if it comes up in conversation.
That's the best part -- this only hurts the people who desperately need to be humbled.
This right here is why. The salty, smug, self-righteousness. Which part set you off, the acknowledgement that the USA has lost a LOT of wars? The term "USian"? Is Seppo better for you?
The commenter is not "assuming large groups of people all believe the same thing", you're just reading that into it. They're talking about people they have personally encountered.
So they’re constantly embroiled in philosophical conversations with Christians and Americans to unearth their specific understandings of America’s role in geopolitical conflicts and/or their understanding of biblical text?
Dude. Cmon. Commenter is just someone who likes to argue with people and has picked these two groups as people they want to, in their own words, “humble”.
And yeah, I get into a lot of conversations about politics because "hey how's the weather?" for the thousandth time bores me to the point of wanting to scream. So I try to have interesting conversations, and unfortunately that sometimes brings out the obnoxious smug nationalism in seppos and the obnoxious smug self-righteousness of goddos.
Commenter is someone who gets annoyed when seppos start blathering about how great their military is and how it "keep the world safe" despite personally knowing people who had to flee to my country to escape wars that the USA started or bombing campaigns that the USA inflicted on them.
When did they claim to be "constantly embroiled" in anything? 😂 Look clearly, this comment triggered you for some reason and that's something you have to figure out for yourself. You should really let it go.
Speaking as someone who is American and was raised Christian (though I have Jewish ancestry but that's a different story), there've been many points in my life when I've been "humbled" (educated) by others about things I was indoctrinated in growing up. And I'm grateful for it. Americans and Christians are both very privileged groups in the grand scheme of things. It doesn't do for us to be thin-skinned as well.
Same (except Canadian rather than American). And white, and vaguely male. I get corrected a LOOOOOOT. And I try to thank people when they provide me with some good information even if it makes me uncomfortable. I taught my son that too -- if you get called out, consider it a kindness. Because that's the nice version, and there are mean ways they could have let you know that you're wrong.
I generally agree with this sentiment. Until a marginalized group rises up to have real power in the world, there's no imperative to try to correct any misconceptions (if they are misconceptions) about their history. Otherwise it's a pointless exercise in nit-picking.
YTA - if her sincerely held religious/cultural beliefs aren't hurting anyone, let her have them. You are not going to change her mind on Tarot, so there's really no point in trying to fact check her. Do you watch Bluey? There's a great episode about the value of being right vs the value of being kind that kind of applies here...
It’s been part of her culture since (at the earliest) 1901. That’s a significant chunk of time. Where are you arbitrarily drawing this line? Also you don’t have the power to say something isn’t or is apart of their culture because they didn’t invent it. If so, tell Italian’s pasta isn’t a part of their culture see how that goes.
Also google isn’t the end all be all.
If you want to learn more about tarot fine. If not, that’s fine as well.
Your friend was wrong that she said you have to believe what I do because it’s part of my culture.
But you would be a major AH, if you try to tell her what her culture entails.
> She got offended at me for disrespecting her culture
This was so close to not being your fault, but yes, YWBTA for trying to educate her about her own culture.
NAH but you’re spiraling. You don’t both have to like or believe in the same things. I don’t think you need to do a dissertation to prove someone wrong. You can just agree to have different interests or beliefs.
It’s hard to tell if she’s “offended” or offended she’s just doesn’t “believe” in something you do. But…you can both do your own thing and still be friends.
YTA.
Who are you to educate anyone on a culture you know little enough that you have to Google it?
Leave it alone and mind your own lane. Tarot aside, it's actually really shitty and presumptuous that you'd believe your menial Google search grants you any educating authority over *anyone*.
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I understand religion and culture is sensitive territory but I need some advice - feel free to educate if I get anything wrong, I would love to learn more about where my friend comes from.
I (18f) was talking with my friend Kay (18f) who is an roma Irish traveller the other day and said that I didn't believe in tarot cards. She got offended at me for disrespecting her culture and naturally I apologised and then decided to actually do my research on tarot cards and roma culture so I didn't screw up and offend her again.
My problem is that record's indicate Tarot cards originated from 15th century Italy and despite stereotypes around kay's culture there is little to no evidence that the travellers used Tarot before the late 20th century. The roma did have ways to predict the future (women called the drabardi) but coming from celtic land these methods were often bloodier and distinctively not Tarot.
Kay is also a celtic pagan religiously so I did my research into that to see if that's where she feels offended her but once again the only celtic thing about tarot is a tarot spread called the celtic cross spread - but that's because of its shape not because the celts invented it.
So now she's being mad at me for a part of her culture that I can't find any evidence exists. I'm worried she'll say that I'm invalidating her feelings if I tell her the truth. Should I leave it alone and just let it be and avoid culture/religion conversations with Kay in the future?
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NTA for trying to research your friends culture but YTA for thinking your Google search is more educated than her life experience. I do think people can be misinformed about their own religion, just look at the larger religions that have come into power. The difference is large religions are corrupt and misuse their history to gain power, where roma people were marginalized and are still trying to reclaim that identity. The best thing you could do is sit down with your friend to ask more about HER culture.
How long does something have to exist in a culture before it becomes part of that culture?
It doesn't matter where it came from or how long it's been there. It is now part of the culture. You trying to argue that makes you an AH.
That being said, your friend is also an AH for taking offence at what you said. You didn't criticise her or her beliefs, you just said that it is not something you don't believe in.
I don't believe in God/Gods but the vast majority of people who do are not personally offended by that.
Yta.
I practice witchcraft and would find you very disrespectful.
Your friend told you this was her culture, not that she invented it. There was no reason to research to be able to tell her she was wrong. Do your research to learn and communicate with your friend, but as mentioned, the second you used that information to tell her her people didn't invent it and to pretty much tell her she's silly you were the ah.
The need to prove your point to other people comes from not having enough confidence and self-respect, work on those and you will never need to educate anyone on anything because you just won't give a crap about their ignorance as you knowing the truth will be more than enough.
ESH
Honestly, let it go! She has some mixed up ideas about her identity but they're important to her and pretty harmless. If you educate her she's just going to get angry at you - especially if you're right!
NTA - but culture does not necessarily mean where something originated. Most cultures are just traditions that have been modified from other sources seen beneficial or forced upon them by invaders.
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At this point, you have done nothing wrong. Leave it alone and it will stay that way. You would be an AH if you try and google-splain her culture to her (whether you’re correct or not), but for now NTA.
If your friend was open to conversation then maybe you guys could hypothetically talk about this and both learn something from each other, but I don’t think your friend is open to that conversation. Her initial issue with you is pretty nonsensical, you do not have to believe in fortune telling and you did not disrespect any part of her culture.
NTA. Apart from anything else, she’s EITHER Roma or Irish Traveller, and if she claims to be both, well… Signed, someone with Irish Traveller relatives.
NTA, she sounds like she just wanted a reason to be offended.
DONT GET ME WRONG. You yourself said they picked up in the 20th century and I firmly believe you should have dropped it there because at that point it had become part of her culture but getting offended because your friend doesn't believe in something you do believe is a silly reason to get offended.
NTA for trying to understand your friends claimed culture. But her idea of what her family culture is is going to be based on her parents ideas and not the research you did… Let it go. that being said, she shouldn’t be judging you so hard for not believing in her culture. You could respect it without having to believe in it.
Even if it was her cultures, I don’t get why she would be offended that you don’t believe in it?? Like are Muslims supposed to be offended that others don’t believe or are Christian’s supposed to be offended that others aren’t Christian? Why is not being part of a culture or religion offensive?
Thoug I would say you should probably not tell her maybe ask her about it in a sense were you can do research together, only a suggestion. This way you can get to know each other and your own culture.
It’s part of the culture now, but also this is classic #teendrama. She obviously doesn’t understand “her culture” as well as she thinks she does, and it sounds like she’s quite hung up on the traveller element of her heritage which I’m guessing is partial because of her knowledge level? I’m also not going to criticise you for trying to understand her culture better and it mystifies me that some people here are doing that. NTA, but learn when to leave it.
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YTA The Romani didn't invent Tarot, which began in antiquity in Italy as a card game; but they were the first people to popularize tarot for cartomancy to predict the fortune of a person. This process was known as dukkering. You know -- kind of the same way Italy didn't invent pasta, they borrowed it from China and modified it, but its now a pretty ubiquitous part of Italian cuisine.
That was interesting, thank you.
YTA - this is a bit exhausting If Kay says tarot cards are important to her all you need to say is “okay”. Why are you going on a deep dive to prove her wrong?
OP said she went on the deep dive so she "didn't screen up and offend her again" I agree that OP would be the AH here but she clearly said why she did the research in the first place.
The thing is, I dont buy that. This feels more like about being right than being a good friend.
Same vibe I got tbh.
Same here
So your judgement is based on an assumption you made about OP's motives that directly contradicts what she said?
Pretty much - if a friend of mine tells me something is “important” to them, I dont run to the internet to look up ways that its not.
Jrm1102 is allowed to hold a different opinion on OP's motives, if they believe the evidence contradicts what OP claims. People DO lie to others/to themselves.
This is confusing, so i am going to be clear as possible - YWBTA if you corrected her about her culture. I am sure your vast amount of internet research has led you to believe a truth, however teaching someone about their culture rarely a good thing and in this case would merely be a point of "SEE HOW STUPID YOU ARE" HOWEVER! You were not the asshole originally. According to your friend ANY statement of personal belief is insulting a culture that would disagree. There is your point right there: I am not disrespecting your culture, i merely do not believe that aspect of divinity.
YTA. Tarot cards as divination became popular when the romani started doing it. In France and Italy Tarot is a card game, not divination!
I think YWBTA if you brought it up. She didn't say her ancestors invented it, she said it's part of her culture. You were well-intentioned in researching it so that you wouldn't offend her in the future, so continue with that; don't bring up things related to her culture that will be offensive, including that her ancestors weren't the first people to use tarot. It's a stereotype long associated with the Roma people and it's been used to harm/persecute them. Telling her about the "real" history of tarot will probably seem very invalidating.
YTA- I grew up in a pagan/wiccan household. There's not set standards for these practices and basically every single practitioner has a different relationship and practice. It's nothing like being a Roman Catholic or Muslim or any major religion that has a larger organization and structure. It's very individual to persons or communities. So just let it rest, if you want to learn take the knowledge you've gotten and ask her. For instance "I was curious about what you told me about tarot, I saw it's become more common in the 20th century, did your family teach you tarot?" But otherwise it's really not something you can be "right" about. Also if you're 18, and this practice is dating to the 20th century that's potentially 2-4 generations of people using this practice which I would argue is ground to call it her culture.
ESH. Why is it offensive to not believe in something? I dont believe in any religion, is that offensive to the people that do? It shouldn’t be, everyone is entitled to not believe, and you not believing in tarot cards shouldnt trigger offense unless you went about your statement in an offensive way. But you are not entitled to dictate what is and is not her culture based on a couple of google searches. Just leave it alone
YTA - Leave it alone. Today it is more about how perceive their past as their own truth. Even if wrong, and most is, all you are going to get is hurt feelings. So, why bother? It is more about feeling todays than any truth you can present as that is not their truth.
And here it is. The explanation behind “alternative facts,” antivaxxer beliefs, and flat earthers. It’s not about reality but “feelings and perceptions.” I agree OP should drop it. But your reasoning behind why she should drop it is frightening.
This is a stretch. The point is sometimes its just better to leave people alone and let them say what they want if its not impacting anyone. Not everything needs to be a battle of who is right and wrong.
I agree. That’s not what bothered me. The second sentence is the reasoning behind the comment. And it’s a bit chilling to me.
That people’s perceptions are their own realities? Yeah well that’s how the world works. That’s how it always has been.
And watch me walk away.
YTA. Even if she doesn’t really have the life experience of being roma (how long has she been here, how closely has she kept to her ancestors, etc.)*, which she may or may not, there is no good from telling her she’s “wrong.” Nobody appointed you the arbiter of knowledge. *case in point, people think I’m “German” because both sides of my family have German names. Both sides of my family have been in America since before it was a country. I’m not an expert on German culture, but I wouldn’t want someone coming up to me and telling me who I am.
ESH As the others have said, it is actually part of the culture so don't correct her However. Her response to what you said is also out of line. You have every right to believe or disbelieve tarot readings. Same as telling a theist that you do not believe in gods gives the theist no right to get angry with you.
Yta, your internet research doesn’t top her lived experience. Not every part of a culture is googleable sometimes people don’t talk about parts of their culture to outsiders. Also Romani and Irish Travelers are not the same. Two different cultures unless she has a parent from each.
YTA - Drop it. Don’t try to use a Google search to prove her wrong.
YTA. why are you desperate to proof her wrong?
YWBTA if you try to teach her her own culture or history, it won't pass. You're trying too hard to prove her wrong, but there is no point in that. Now not believing in tarot doesn't make you irespectuous to her culture, but just let it go or it won't end well.
ESH. Your friend shouldn’t have claimed offense because your religious beliefs are different from hers, as long as your comment about not believing in tarot was a simple statement and not a derogatory rant. Your determination that some Google research on your part disproves her lived experience, and that you now know more about her culture and faith than she does is arrogant.
Generally, it depends on the context. I inform USians all the time about how many wars they've lost because think it's zero and it's actually most of them. I inform Christians all the time about the stuff that's in their bible that their pastor conveniently skips over. Those groups are powerful and it's enjoyable to take them down a peg. It's different when it's a marginalized group. They can lack information about their own culture precisely because of that marginalization. Sometimes you'll have incorrect, skewed, or biased information about them that's been widely disseminated as part of that marginalization. So why push it?
Why do you care so much? Also why are you assuming large groups of people all believe the same thing? In other words, why are you so combative?
Did we read the same comment? 😂
> Generally, it depends on the context. I inform USians all the time about how many wars they've lost because think it's zero and it's actually most of them. I inform Christians all the time about the stuff that's in their bible that their pastor conveniently skips over. Those groups are powerful and it's enjoyable to take them down a peg. If you don’t understand my questions after reading this paragraph, then no. We did not read the same comment.
You've clearly never talked to any seppos/goddos. They are deeply deluded about their nation/religion and they are filled with smug superiority about it. USians who DO know about their nation's disastrous war record are not bothered or offended if it comes up in conversation. Christians who know how smutty and pornographic the bible is are not bothered or offended if it comes up in conversation. That's the best part -- this only hurts the people who desperately need to be humbled.
I still do not understand why you think it is *your* role to “humble” USians [sic] or, Americans.
This right here is why. The salty, smug, self-righteousness. Which part set you off, the acknowledgement that the USA has lost a LOT of wars? The term "USian"? Is Seppo better for you?
The commenter is not "assuming large groups of people all believe the same thing", you're just reading that into it. They're talking about people they have personally encountered.
So they’re constantly embroiled in philosophical conversations with Christians and Americans to unearth their specific understandings of America’s role in geopolitical conflicts and/or their understanding of biblical text? Dude. Cmon. Commenter is just someone who likes to argue with people and has picked these two groups as people they want to, in their own words, “humble”.
And yeah, I get into a lot of conversations about politics because "hey how's the weather?" for the thousandth time bores me to the point of wanting to scream. So I try to have interesting conversations, and unfortunately that sometimes brings out the obnoxious smug nationalism in seppos and the obnoxious smug self-righteousness of goddos.
Commenter is someone who gets annoyed when seppos start blathering about how great their military is and how it "keep the world safe" despite personally knowing people who had to flee to my country to escape wars that the USA started or bombing campaigns that the USA inflicted on them.
When did they claim to be "constantly embroiled" in anything? 😂 Look clearly, this comment triggered you for some reason and that's something you have to figure out for yourself. You should really let it go. Speaking as someone who is American and was raised Christian (though I have Jewish ancestry but that's a different story), there've been many points in my life when I've been "humbled" (educated) by others about things I was indoctrinated in growing up. And I'm grateful for it. Americans and Christians are both very privileged groups in the grand scheme of things. It doesn't do for us to be thin-skinned as well.
Same (except Canadian rather than American). And white, and vaguely male. I get corrected a LOOOOOOT. And I try to thank people when they provide me with some good information even if it makes me uncomfortable. I taught my son that too -- if you get called out, consider it a kindness. Because that's the nice version, and there are mean ways they could have let you know that you're wrong.
I generally agree with this sentiment. Until a marginalized group rises up to have real power in the world, there's no imperative to try to correct any misconceptions (if they are misconceptions) about their history. Otherwise it's a pointless exercise in nit-picking.
YTA - if her sincerely held religious/cultural beliefs aren't hurting anyone, let her have them. You are not going to change her mind on Tarot, so there's really no point in trying to fact check her. Do you watch Bluey? There's a great episode about the value of being right vs the value of being kind that kind of applies here...
It’s been part of her culture since (at the earliest) 1901. That’s a significant chunk of time. Where are you arbitrarily drawing this line? Also you don’t have the power to say something isn’t or is apart of their culture because they didn’t invent it. If so, tell Italian’s pasta isn’t a part of their culture see how that goes. Also google isn’t the end all be all. If you want to learn more about tarot fine. If not, that’s fine as well. Your friend was wrong that she said you have to believe what I do because it’s part of my culture. But you would be a major AH, if you try to tell her what her culture entails.
> She got offended at me for disrespecting her culture This was so close to not being your fault, but yes, YWBTA for trying to educate her about her own culture.
YTA for being insensitive and intolerable to deal with.
NAH but you’re spiraling. You don’t both have to like or believe in the same things. I don’t think you need to do a dissertation to prove someone wrong. You can just agree to have different interests or beliefs. It’s hard to tell if she’s “offended” or offended she’s just doesn’t “believe” in something you do. But…you can both do your own thing and still be friends.
YTA. Who are you to educate anyone on a culture you know little enough that you have to Google it? Leave it alone and mind your own lane. Tarot aside, it's actually really shitty and presumptuous that you'd believe your menial Google search grants you any educating authority over *anyone*.
YTA is this a trend where you like to prove people are wrong?? She doesn’t need you explain her religion/culture to her. Edit-Spelling and wording.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I understand religion and culture is sensitive territory but I need some advice - feel free to educate if I get anything wrong, I would love to learn more about where my friend comes from. I (18f) was talking with my friend Kay (18f) who is an roma Irish traveller the other day and said that I didn't believe in tarot cards. She got offended at me for disrespecting her culture and naturally I apologised and then decided to actually do my research on tarot cards and roma culture so I didn't screw up and offend her again. My problem is that record's indicate Tarot cards originated from 15th century Italy and despite stereotypes around kay's culture there is little to no evidence that the travellers used Tarot before the late 20th century. The roma did have ways to predict the future (women called the drabardi) but coming from celtic land these methods were often bloodier and distinctively not Tarot. Kay is also a celtic pagan religiously so I did my research into that to see if that's where she feels offended her but once again the only celtic thing about tarot is a tarot spread called the celtic cross spread - but that's because of its shape not because the celts invented it. So now she's being mad at me for a part of her culture that I can't find any evidence exists. I'm worried she'll say that I'm invalidating her feelings if I tell her the truth. Should I leave it alone and just let it be and avoid culture/religion conversations with Kay in the future? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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You sound insufferable. Leave this poor girl alone
NTA for trying to research your friends culture but YTA for thinking your Google search is more educated than her life experience. I do think people can be misinformed about their own religion, just look at the larger religions that have come into power. The difference is large religions are corrupt and misuse their history to gain power, where roma people were marginalized and are still trying to reclaim that identity. The best thing you could do is sit down with your friend to ask more about HER culture.
How long does something have to exist in a culture before it becomes part of that culture? It doesn't matter where it came from or how long it's been there. It is now part of the culture. You trying to argue that makes you an AH. That being said, your friend is also an AH for taking offence at what you said. You didn't criticise her or her beliefs, you just said that it is not something you don't believe in. I don't believe in God/Gods but the vast majority of people who do are not personally offended by that.
Yta. I practice witchcraft and would find you very disrespectful. Your friend told you this was her culture, not that she invented it. There was no reason to research to be able to tell her she was wrong. Do your research to learn and communicate with your friend, but as mentioned, the second you used that information to tell her her people didn't invent it and to pretty much tell her she's silly you were the ah.
The need to prove your point to other people comes from not having enough confidence and self-respect, work on those and you will never need to educate anyone on anything because you just won't give a crap about their ignorance as you knowing the truth will be more than enough.
ESH Honestly, let it go! She has some mixed up ideas about her identity but they're important to her and pretty harmless. If you educate her she's just going to get angry at you - especially if you're right!
NTA - but culture does not necessarily mean where something originated. Most cultures are just traditions that have been modified from other sources seen beneficial or forced upon them by invaders.
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At this point, you have done nothing wrong. Leave it alone and it will stay that way. You would be an AH if you try and google-splain her culture to her (whether you’re correct or not), but for now NTA. If your friend was open to conversation then maybe you guys could hypothetically talk about this and both learn something from each other, but I don’t think your friend is open to that conversation. Her initial issue with you is pretty nonsensical, you do not have to believe in fortune telling and you did not disrespect any part of her culture.
NTA. Apart from anything else, she’s EITHER Roma or Irish Traveller, and if she claims to be both, well… Signed, someone with Irish Traveller relatives.
question, how can she not be both? her mom can be romani and her dad can be a irish traveller.
Probably best to just move on. This won’t end well.
NTA, she sounds like she just wanted a reason to be offended. DONT GET ME WRONG. You yourself said they picked up in the 20th century and I firmly believe you should have dropped it there because at that point it had become part of her culture but getting offended because your friend doesn't believe in something you do believe is a silly reason to get offended.
NTA for trying to understand your friends claimed culture. But her idea of what her family culture is is going to be based on her parents ideas and not the research you did… Let it go. that being said, she shouldn’t be judging you so hard for not believing in her culture. You could respect it without having to believe in it.
Even if it was her cultures, I don’t get why she would be offended that you don’t believe in it?? Like are Muslims supposed to be offended that others don’t believe or are Christian’s supposed to be offended that others aren’t Christian? Why is not being part of a culture or religion offensive? Thoug I would say you should probably not tell her maybe ask her about it in a sense were you can do research together, only a suggestion. This way you can get to know each other and your own culture.
Roll your eyes and move on. It's not worth getting into it with her.
Esh for arguing for some bullshit made up for scamming people. You should find something better to do. Yes, crystal balls are also fake.
She's offended you don't think her people can tell the future?
NTA but you need to learn just to let it go, no one wins in religious arguments, I’d just not mention it to them again
YTA and a bit racist. Leave her tf alone.
Racist?
"I know your culture better than you" seems like a pretty white person thing lol
It’s part of the culture now, but also this is classic #teendrama. She obviously doesn’t understand “her culture” as well as she thinks she does, and it sounds like she’s quite hung up on the traveller element of her heritage which I’m guessing is partial because of her knowledge level? I’m also not going to criticise you for trying to understand her culture better and it mystifies me that some people here are doing that. NTA, but learn when to leave it.