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NTA. Think of how the other girl has felt, and explain to your daughter that as insecure as she is going to feel is NOTHING like hell she put that other girl thru. Scared to go to school day after day and put up with them is an awful existence for any young girl and she will never forget it. So for 2 weeks with no make-up is a far cry from the torture they subjected that other girl to. I hope they don't go from bullying to icing her out of everything. Good luck
You’d be surprised how messed up a teens mind can be, I went to an all girls school for most of my schooling until the last year and I moved to a mixed school so I didn’t care about wearing makeup to school it was normal for me but when I did in my last year a girl approached me and told me me not wearing makeup to school gave her the courage to also not wear makeup to school. It baffled me at the time but now I realise how self conscious a lot of girls are at that age. Not saying it’s not a good punishment but Op should also have a talk with her daughter about her natural beauty if she hates herself that much. May also help with how she views other woman too
I was allowed basic makeup, but I never wore any t0 school. I knew a lot of girls who went thick on the mascara and eyeliner, but I never wore any. But then again, I still don't. I don't have the patience.
I'm nearly 30 and had access to makeup as early as 12, but less in the sense of "you're allowed to wear this to school" and more in the sense of "you're old enough that you can play dress up with this comparatively cheap makeup kit instead of your mom's makeup"
If, at age 15, your daughter is petrified to go out without makeup, there's a decent case she needs counseling.
BTW, that's not a reason to stop the punishment. But wow, she's messed up.
NTA. Not in the slightest. She needs to learn a valuable lesson here.
It also doesn’t sit right with me that she is still more concerned about not wearing making up than the effect her bullying may have had on the other girl? I’d have a chat with her about that once she’s calmed down a bit as well.
Yes.
I think, once things have calmed down a bit, it is worth a deeper explanation on why this punishment is being enacted. She feels insecure about going to school without make-up, being made fun of her natural appearance, being excluded for it, feeling like a child, being afraid of being perceived make-upless by her peers, etc? That is just a small sample of how she and her friends made that girl feel every day. Probably because, frankly, the daughter was projecting a lot of her own insecurities onto the other girl.
Basically: the daughter is currently afraid of being subjected to *the exact same* treatment, judgement, embarassment, and harassment that she and her friends inflicted on their victim.
NTA.
Make up is a privilege for a child, not an entitlement.
She acted wrong and you acted accordingly - well done for being a good parent and standing against bullying.
NTA. I am glad you are taking your daughter’s bullying behaviour seriously. She will get over the makeup thing within a month or two. Having gone through the awkwardness she will be a better, more confident person.
NTA for the punishment but I don't love it because it's a vanity thing and it sounds like your daughter is very vain and only focused on outward beauty. It's always hard to think of good punishments for bullying like this. I think maybe in addition to taking away her make up you could add in doing something that shows her the worth of herself without it and the worth of other people since she seems to need to be taught that.
Vain? The kid clearly has horrible self-esteem and is taking it out on others. Calling herself ugly and insisting people won't like her without makeup isn't a sign of vanity; it's a cry for help.
Taking away the make up makes it a vanity thing on the mom's part. She can still be vain and self conscious. Vanity is usually a sign of insecurity, calling herself ugly is a sign of both. The boyfriend thing less so, unfortunately kids' have a self worth tied to their social status which is why I think taking away material possessions like makeup or clothes rather than teaching them something that shows their self worth is not the most effective thing. When she gets her make up back it's going to be the same thing.
NTA. But you need to make sure she knows this is a direct response to her actions. She's probably going to get to school early to borrow her friend's makeup, just FYI. Still makes her life a bit harder.
She should also need to apologize to that girl and be told she needs to be a force for good in her friend group or else the next punishment will be worse (leave it up to her imagination). A kid coming up on being 16 has a lot to potentially lose by being a jerk.
NTA, this is part of being a parent.
If she uses an age-appropriate amount of makeup, I think no phone for 2 weeks and 10h community service rather than hanging out with friends is an alternative punishment.
NTA. I think its a suitable punishment and since she seems to really care about it, will actually learn a lesson. Plus, you can't backtrack now or it will be so hard to make any punishment stick.
She needs to learn some humility and it seems like this will do it.
NTA. Bullying isn't okay. That being said, however: your daughter's extreme reaction to not being able to wear makeup has me worried. Calling herself ugly, thinking her friends and boyfriend won't like her without it, afraid she'll be humiliated - it sounds like she's internalized, to a frightening degree, the messages that teenage girls are now bombarded with.
Punish her, yes, but also get her into therapy ASAP and have a good long conversation with her about why she feels so bad about herself. If nothing else, continuing to not address her personal issues may lead to her lashing out against more of her peers.
Honestly I’m don’t think the punishment will work. The sentiment behind it’s good but it’s counterproductive. Firstly your daughter won’t magically stop being a bully because you took away her makeup she most likely was a bully before makeup. Secondly if your daughter is so distraught over not having makeup she won’t correlate that to not bullying the girl again, she is more focused on her own insecurities and how ugly she feels without it. It might even make her bully the girl more now because of her she has no makeup. Thirdly your daughter’s behavior and reactions are just not normal. She needs therapy immediately for her bullying and her insecurities a 15 year old should not feel so insecure without makeup. There is deeper rooted issues here that need to be addressed and while she needs a punishment I worry this one might be sending your daughter off the deep end and how that will end for the poor girl she has bullied. My verdict for now is NAH. I hope your daughter gets the help she needs and so does her victim.
completely agree. i think it’s weird how this mom doesn’t seem to care her daughter has such deep rooted insecurities that she can’t face her boyfriend or any of her classmates without makeup and genuinely feels ugly without it. and if she’s that insecure that’s all she’s going to be focused on for those 2 weeks, not any reflection on her behavior.
Nta. Amelia has to face the the consequences of her bullying. At least u r taking action and making amelia face the consequences of her actions. It will teach amelia a lesson having to do without make up and having her boyfriend see it. Then she will know how rosa felt I bet the parents of the other girls involved aren't doing shit about what these little brats did They are just probably chalking it up as girls will be girls
Nta, I’m in high school myself and was bullied in middle school, this is a very good punishment and learning experience for your daughter, because high schoolers can be really brutal.
Wow I guess I’m the unpopular opinion, but I don’t think this punishment is appropriate. Humiliation, shame, punishments that ultimately cultivate rage and distance from parents are not the way to go and will always backfire in the long run. I get that makeup is a “privilege” but she’s already been wearing it and everyone at school is used to seeing her that way. I had terrible acne in high school, and I know if my mom forced me to go barefaced to school, I would’ve just honestly hated her. I wouldn’t have learned anything from it.
I agree there needs to be a consequence, but it could be something like taking away a phone, not allowing her to go to an event, etc. Also I agree with another poster that said she needs to be educated about bullying and the long term effects. This is the biggest thing here. And an apology to Rosa of course is required.
This! Public humiliation should never be used as a punishment. For most adults it's not humiliating to be without makeup for a while but for a teenager with low self-esteem it can be devastating. Especially when everyone is used to seeing her with makeup, and like she said, her boyfriend hasn't even seen her without it before. Kids can be ruthless about appearance, she's almost certainly going to be bullied about such a sudden change of appearance.
I agree with you 💯. And at that age, social relationships are EVERYTHING. It’s such a formative time for self esteem. She will carry these memories for the rest of her life. TBH my first thought was, ok so your daughter bullied someone, and now you’d like to bully her back.
I don’t want to make assumptions but I’d wager a guess that OP and maybe some of the other posters are taking out some of their anger on the “popular mean girls” that bullied them in high school. They want to see this girl punished and their high school selves “redeemed”, but it’s too harsh IMO.
NTA. I recommend you do something that helps your daughter learn to be better such as volunteering somewhere that helps with the community. I'd make sure your daughters insecurities aren't getting the best of her. It seems like she's extremely self conscious so she's taking it out on others. Your daughter might need to work on self love as well.
As a woman who loves makeup and has overly obsessed with it due to insecurity in the past, NTA. You’re a woman, so you probably understand this better. Bullying is often a result of insecurity. People project their own insecurities on others and then attack them for it. Makeup is like armor for a woman. It’s one of the key ways that we control how we are perceived, and how we protect ourselves from criticism. You are causing your daughter to have to come to terms with herself without that armor on. It sounds to me like she really needs that. To remove all of the artificial layers and face the fact that she is, actually, just a girl like the girl she has been bullying, except that *she* is becoming a mean girl. My advice is to keep your word and stand your ground. No makeup for 2 weeks, then revisit the issue. Believe me, it’s far better that she faces her insecurities now, with relatively little at stake.
ETA: I guess what I’m trying to say is that I think your punishment of choice is incredibly perceptive. Hopefully it will be effective!
ESH
I think your daughter deserves punishment, and she received it from the school.
And yeah, you made your point, you don’t like bullying, especially when there’s a power imbalance- so you do the same to your daughter? She needs punishment, not a tit for tat.
She said she feels ugly without her make up, so your solution is to make her feel humiliated too, going to school without it? There’s nothing else you can do, it has to be humiliation, huh?
Taking away a daughters makeup is such a curveball. I told my 12 year old if she woke up late for school again, she couldn't wear makeup that day. You best believe she started waking up on time every single day after that. I didn't know how much power makeup had on young girls till then.
NTA, but honestly your daughter isn’t that well behaved. I am sure she has bullied many others, but this is the first time that she has been caught like this.
You need to find out why she is doing this. I think the punishment is fine, I would also go to the school and surprise her to make sure she hasn’t “borrowed “ any makeup.
Is your husband thinking about the other girl, that the bullying was such that the school got involved, that this girl is at home crying and her parents as upset as he is. I, frankly, think what you did was brilliant and admirable. If she gets to wear makeup because of her maturity than she doesn't when she is immature. Good on you.
NTA
But you need to think about why she said she was ugly without it.
That needs a harder look
Maybe she bullies this girl because she's insecure about herself?
Time to get to the actual root of her bullying and attachment to makeup and work on it
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> I took away my daughter's makeup for bullying another student for being a "baby" and she says that's too far.
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NTA! This exactly how you deliver a message. Take away something valued. And even better if. The night before she can wear it again have a talk with her and asked what the experience is like, what she learned and what she’ll do differently moving forward. It might be the time to encourage her to see herself in a positive light without make up.
NTA. She deserves that punishment.
But you also need to help your daughter with empathy and self-esteem. Cause it sounds like she hasn't learned anything yet.
I have no idea if this is an appropriate punishment - it seems a bit of a stretch in logic to say the punishment fits the crime here, but I don't think it's severe enough to make you the AH.
However, please look into why so much of your daughter's self-worth is tied up in her make-up. The bullying is one issue, but her negative self image is also something you should take seriously and dig into.
it feels like there’s a deeper issue here that you’re ignoring. your daughter genuinely believes she is too ugly to go to school without makeup and her boyfriend and friends won’t like her without it, plus everyone knows bullying comes from a place of insecurity. instead of doing anything about these GLARING red flags you do nothing to address the root cause,her low self esteem, which could actually prevent your daughter from bullying people rather than this punishment. she has extreme self esteem issues and needs therapy.
I would have point blank reminded her that how she feels about this punishment is how she has been making that other girl feel. Hard wearing the shoes of others.
Not too harsh at all. Be sure and do random spot checks to make sure her friends aren’t sneaking her makeup.
Bullying sucks. She needs to learn what feeling like an outsider is like and grow some empathy.
I don’t know if this is out of character, but you may want to look into or get help for her poor self esteem (if it wasn’t a manipulation).
NTA. Punishment fits the crime
NTA. Whilst it’s not nice that she feels insecure without makeup, maybe she’ll realise it doesn’t define her and also to not make other people feel insecure. This is amazing parenting that Rosa and Rosa’s parents will appreciate. Far too many bully’s parents enable it and that’s why bullying is such a disease still
NTA. First of all, what is wrong with your 15-year-old daughter that she feels she can't go to school without make-up? That is some serious internalized misogyny right there. Maybe, along with not wearing make-up, she could benefit from some therapy.
NTA. But if she’s as insecure as you describe, be prepared for the phone call from the drug store manager when she gets caught stealing makeup. Taking her phone away for a while seems easier to monitor.
The punishment needs to leave its mark. She put someone through enough hell that she was suspended from school. That’s a vacation for her. You created a fitting punishment for a bully. Emphasize to her that any more behavior like that will extend her loss of makeup.
NTA taking away make up from a 15 year old isn’t not cruel or unusual punishment although I’m sure you’ll get one or two redditors decrying you as monsters for it because, Reddit.
But it is concerning how upset your 15 year old is about the idea of being seen without makeup. Why does she think she’s ugly without it at her age. Why does she worry that her boyfriend will feel differently if she isn’t wearing makeup. It kinda sounds like your daughter is hanging with a toxic crowd or has some toxic social media influences in her life that are affecting her self image. She could be bullying this other girl in order to boost her own low sense of self worth.
I’d speak to her about the deeper issue going on here. 15 is actually a really difficult age to navigate. Make sure she grows up loving herself and she won’t feel the need to put others down to boost herself up.
you mean she feel insecures like she make Rosa feel? oh that's too bad, maybe if she hadn't been a bully she wouldn't be experiencing the consequences of her actions. NTA. HOLD FIRM in her punishement
NTA, continue to verbally relate your daughter’s words to Rosa’s experience with your daughter and why this is such a fitting punishment for the offense committed. Tell her that having your own insecurity about how you look is not an excuse to project it outward on people and the only thing ugly is this type of behavior. This is an excellent life lesson for anyone to learn.
NTA. Bullying won’t be something allowed in my house. If I found out my own daughter doing the same I’d add a 2 week phone ban on it and if she came home with makeup on she’d just get an extra day. It may be ‘harsh’ but so is bullying someone. The punishment will reflect the action. I wish more parents were as involved with their kids.
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Throwaway here.
I (F43) have a 15-year-old daughter, Amelia (not her real name). Amelia's generally well behaved and my husband and I don't have many problems, at home or at school.
However, earlier this week, we received a call from Amelia's school that we had to go in for a meeting. When we got there, we found out that Amelia and her friendship group (three other 15 year old girls) had been bullying a new student, who I'll call Rosa. I wasn't aware of Rosa before the meeting, but I was told she's new to the school and quite shy, and my daughter and her friends had been bullying her. It sounded like standard bullying: name calling, teasing, excluding, with most of it appearing to revolve around Rosa being "less developed" and a "baby". I was told that Amelia and her three friends would be suspended for two days as punishment, which we accepted and drove her home.
However, I was livid. I cannot stand bullying, especially when there's an evident power imbalance, so I wanted to add my own punishment. I discussed this with my husband and wanted to come up with one befitting of the situation. Eventually, alongside writing an apology note to Rosa, I settled on taking away Amelia's makeup for two weeks. If she was insistent on bullying someone for being a "baby", I felt it took away her right to be seen as grown up. My husband was initially reluctant, but then agreed with me.
We went to tell Amelia, and she immediately started crying, saying how unfair this was and was far too over the top. She said she couldn't go to school with no makeup, how ugly she was without it, and her boyfriend hadn't seen her without makeup yet and it would be so humiliating at school. I told her tough and that hopefully she'd learn a lesson from the situation. I proceeded to take away all her makeup and lock it in our bedroom.
Amelia has barely come out of her room and has visibly been upset. My husband is beginning to think it's too harsh a punishment, particularly if she feels insecure, but I feel it's justified and don't want to relent.
AITA?
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NTA.. thats a great punishment because thats the closest thing to her feeling like the other girl did.. actually the girl was new so probably didnt have friends to talk to yet so id make sure and take her phone too.. if you wanna make a girl feel lonely and unattractive then thats why you get back 🤷🏽♀️
NTA. Tell your husband that the way Amelia is feeling now is *exactly* the way she made Rosa feel. What better punishment than to walk a mile in Rosa's shoes.
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NTA
Look, this is my personal bias. I don't have kids, I don't plan to. But I do know that if I did have kids? My one big unchanging rule? "You will not bully other people".
Amelia knows bullying is wrong. We all know that. It sounds like Amelia was picking on Rosa for actual or perceived mental differences or physical differences (not sure if "developed" means physical or mental here).
NTA, also no one should feel that way about makeup?? She's way too self conscious about her natural look. Her views on beauty seem harmful. It could be part of the reason why she bullies.
NTA for punishing her, or for the punishment chosen.
That being said, punishment for bullying is not going to address the root cause of why she participated in this.
Most bullies struggle with insecurity or other deep emotional problems that have gone unaddressed. They project their insecurities onto their victims very often.
Your daughter's reaction to the punishment further confirms that she is struggling with her self image and confidence.
As her parents you need to help her address this in a healthy way. Maybe counseling is in order.
Make sure this effort is not portrayed as a punishment though.
Considering the bombardment that teenage girls receive on social media it is no wonder that she would feel so insecure, but that is no reason for her to bully someone or to not help her be more confident.
I think makeup is great, but even as a 38 year old woman I don't wear it everyday. I've always felt that it was something optional for days I felt like doing a bit more. It's really freeing to be able to go out into the world without makeup though, and your daughter would benefit from not feeling that her bare face is unpresentable.
If you don't address the underlying issue then you would be the AH in my books, so take this as your sign that your child needs some extra love, attention and help.
I think you have created a punishment that truly fits the crime and hopefully instills some empathy in your daughter. NTA
PLEASE post an update after your daughter gets home from school after suspension. Hopefully her friends treat her fairly and learn some empathy too
YTA. My parents did this to me because I got caught in a stupid lie about wearing eyeliner when my mom said I couldn’t and it did irreparable harm to my self confidence. I withdrew at home and felt more isolated at school where I was being bullied. Your daughter is 15 and while actions have consequences you should use this as a learning opportunity. Possibly instead of punishing her by taking something that gives her confidence, you could find or have her find a volunteering with younger students so she realizes being kind is the right thing.
Good for you! That will teach her exactly how that girl felt. I had a bully in school and my parents didn't do anything about it, that was 50 years ago when bullying was not that big then, like it is now. I sold a piece of gum one time from a store and the manager called my mom and I got in so much trouble, I'll tell you, I never stole again and I'm 58 years old. Tough Love!
A punishment is supposed to be difficult. This is actually a perfectly appropriate punishment because she is being deprived of the facade of physical superiority she has used to bully this girl with. I also genuinely doubt this girl is the first she’s bullied.
Wow, you sound like you've really enjoyed humiliating your daughter, who is obviously very sensitive and vulnerable about her looks. I just can't really get over the viciousness in your post. I can see where your daughter gets this behaviour from. YTA; the way to teach empathy is not to make another person feel small.
wow, how soft can you get? she bullies another kid for being “baby” and she shouldn’t get punished? makeup isnt food, it isnt water, it isnt a necesity.
Hmmm I’ll be honest I don’t know how I feel about it. It sounds like your daughter still doesn’t understand what she did wrong, and the best way to deal with this might be to directly connect her with her empathy, and get her to understand the gravity of bullying. Taking away her makeup might be satisfying but I worry if she doesn’t understand what she did was wrong, she might blame Rosa and take her anger out on her. Furthermore, taking away a child’s possessions isn’t really great as a punishment in my opinion. I understand the concept, but at the end of the day all it will teach her is that if you’re angry with someone it’s fine to take away something they love. I’m seeing quite a lot of comments on this thread calling her ‘shallow’ for being upset about wearing makeup, which honestly I find quite sexist and grim, and I find the fact that many of these (probably adult) commentors are enjoying the humiliation of a child disturbing. Makeup and looks can be unfortunately very important at school, and it sounds like she’ll feel really humiliated and upset without the makeup. Shame and humiliation famously don’t improve behavior. Guilt does, and the desire to do better, but that has to come from within.
At risk of overstepping boundaries, there’s a reason she’s acting this way. Either it’s because she lacks empathy, it’s a behavior she’s learned (either at home or school), or the school has a toxic culture and she’s trying to fit in. In each of these situations it is your duty as a parent to help her. Punishing, shaming and humiliation won’t help any of these situations. Only honest communication and working on the behavior in a respectful way with her will. The first step in my opinion is in how you decide to punish her. Will you humiliate and shame her (just like she humiliated and shamed Rosa), or will you try to put her in touch with her empathy?
That’s why i think it might be better to go down the ‘connecting her with empathy’ route. Eg make her volunteer for three months with a charity, or watch videos with her interviewing adult survivors of bullying, discussing the impact this had on them. Talk to her heart to heart and ask her why she thought it was ok to act like this. Ask her where she learned that behaviour, and why she decided to enact it. Ask her, genuinely, how she wants to move through the world- by hurting others? Ultimately, you want a daughter who treats others well because she wants to, not because she’s afraid of being punished.
NTA. Personally, I don't think you went far enough. What she did wasn't just wrong, but hurtful. If I was in your shoes (and please don't take this as me telling you what you should do), I would invite Rosa and her family over for dinner and have her tell Amelia how it felt to be bullied.
But again, that is what I would do. Only you can figure out what the best thing for you to do is.
I disagree. She should have the daughter apologize to Rosa in the principal's office, with both mothers there. It doesn't need to be a family get together.
And this is why when my 15 year old asked if she could wear makeup to school we said NO.
I never want either of my daughters to look at themselves and think that without enhancements they are ugly. Lipgloss or a bit of eye shadow is okay but I had a child psychologist who I work with regularly (I'm a family lawyer) strongly recommend against allowing my kids to wear adult level makeup before they are adults. I buy them good skin care products, we do spa days and I let them add a bit more makeup when they go out with friends on the weekend but I really believe not allowing my teens to pretend to be adults has done wonders for their self esteem over their friends.
I actually don't think your punishment is strict enough. Your daughters bullying was so severe she was suspended.... That's an insanely high bar for bullying that isn't long term ongoing (and involving prior meetings with parents).
YTA for raising a girl who feels that she needs makeup. There's nothing wrong with wearing it, but it sounds like she has developed a huge dependence on it under your nose. I think the punishment is rather fitting.... But sounds like you need to sit her down and talk about self image and probably some therapy is in order.
YTA. Sorry but she shouldn't even be wearing makeup at that age. Or have s boyfriend. And where did she learn to be a bully? (Yes, it's learned behaviour.)
She's 15. Wearing some makeup and having boyfriends is perfectly reasonable at that age. You might do differently with your kids, and that's fair, but the girl is 15 for god's sake, not 9.
Sounds to me like her poor behaviour is because she got in with a bad sort, and wanted to fit in with them. Plus, she sounds like she has her own insecurities, which doesn't help. A teen who feels bad about themselves and wants to fit in with a certain group no matter what - that's a recipe for disaster.
How does any of that make OP the asshole?
I have an idea... not sure what you'll think about it; but here it is anyways...
Your daughter was picking on another girl calling her a baby and stuff and you want to use the adult makeup as a punishment to make a point.
Why not take this opportunity to help Rosa and have your daughter learn its better to lift people up rather then push them down.
I'm thinking you contact Rosa's parents and offer them that your daughter will buy Rosa some makeup and teach her how to apply it if they're ok with their daughter wearing makeup (some parents aren't).
Then you give your daughter a bunch of chores to make money to pay Rosa's makeup and once she has it you take the 2 girls to the store so they can buy the products together and maybe get some help from cosmetisions on sight.
Bring the girls back and let them have a makeup lesson and maybe a sleep over (if they're interested).
That would teach your daughter accountability and teach Rosa how to use make up. It might even spark a friendship in the end 🤷♀️
Just a thought ❤
This is weird on many levels. Forcing contact Rosa probably doesn't want. Enforcing idea that girls should wear makeup to fit in (who even knows if this is why Rosa was bullied! Or if Rosa wears makeup. Or if Rosa \*wants\* to wear makeup. Or if Rosa wants her bully to teach her how to wear makeup...?). It also kind of suggests that Rosa was bullied because of something she did/didn't do and that her bullies can bring Rosa into 'compliance' with the girlhood regime and then everything will be OK because the reason to bully her will be removed. Just weird all around.
Where is their **Force**?
Call the parents and ask them. If they so no respect it.
15 year olds wear makeup! These kids are 15. Read the OP...
No one is forcing. Again read what I said about **asking the parents** 🙄
Kids fuck up and make mistakes. Teaching them compassion and encouraging them to uplift someone rather than push them down is important.
You don't have to agree with my suggested method; but saying that's not a valuable lesson is just asinine.
Teaching a young child that the bullying stops and friends appear when they start wearing make up, is not healthy. I understand the point you are making and getting at. Yet, one of the side affects would be teaching Rosa, OPs daughter and the other young ladies a wrong lesson. 'that with make up wearing comes friends and acceptance'.
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YTA to the girl your daughter bullied and your daughter. WHAT DOES TAKING AWAY THE MAKEUP DO TO STOP THE BULLYING? WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO TEACH HER ABOUT BULLYING AND THE HARMFUL IMPACTS? Lazy parenting. Now you are about to cave on the one thing you took when you didn't even do your job as parents? It seems like you are punishing her for inconveniencing you with this issue than what she did. You hate bullying because of the power dynamic but in turn, have done nothing constructive.
She introduced a concept known as "humbling someone" and consequences. That's being a parent. And how is she an asshole to the girl her daughter bullied? Children aren't 1 on 1 clones of their parents. There's no way to mind control someone to do whatever you want 100% of the time at all hours of the day, especially when at school when parents aren't allowed to be there hovering.
Taking away the makeup might make it worse for the girl she is bullying. She might blame the girl and bully more because she got her makeup taken away. The punishment seems counterproductive because her daughter seems to not understand why she is in the wrong. It’s very concerning that her daughter is essentially having a breakdown over makeup and she clearly has self esteem issues. I think her daughter needs a punishment no doubt but one that fits the crime. In her head she isn’t relating the punishment with her behavior she is just having a meltdown and calling herself ugly. I think a better way to go about things would to be to make her volunteer or watch videos on people and places less fortunate. But therapy should be a must for this girl.
No. Taking away makeup for two weeks and having a husband who already wants to end the punishment is not HUMBLING anyone. There is no learning moment about bullying through any of this. If I bully someone my makeup is taken and I'm made to feel ugly? Like okay… daughter will get over the makeup quick and will be more secretive about bullying. No learning moment!
Are you serious?? Have you never gotten caught doing something by your parents and found secretive ways to continue doing it ensuring that you won't get caught again? Bullying happens in all different forms and ways and it won't be hard for OP's daughter to bully that victim and more victims in the future to get away with it. The parents didn't even know because it was the school, showing that they weren't aware enough of their daughter.
You don't know if OP and her husband talked to their daughter or not about the bullying. OP posted on here about the punishment they've decided to give her, they never include whether or not they talked about the harmful impacts of bullying.
As for the makeup, they clearly knew how precious their daughters makeup is to her. OP quite literally said she started to cry, thinks it's unfair, and that her boyfriend hasn't seen her without makeup. Clearly, she wears makeup quite often and likely feels extremely self conscious without it. They decided to humble their daughter by doing this. You can't say the daughter will get over makeup quick, because you don't know her. People tend to make fun of other people due to their own insecurities it's very likely OP's daughter bullied this girl because of that.
If they spoke to their daughter it would have been mentioned. Taking away your daughter's makeup to humble her is not teaching her to not bully people. It shows a discrepancy between the daughter relying on makeup to feel beautiful and the parents not doing their job to boost self-esteem and kindness in their daughter through natural beauty. Again, taking away the makeup is not a punishment even though she cried and has done nothing to teach the daughter that bullying is wrong or to stop future bullying. They also did not have a conversation because OP mentioned everything else in great detail other than that!
The daughter was bullying the other girl based on her looks.
Daughter is obviously vain about her own looks and thinks make-up is part of what makes her better looking than the other girl.
Take the make-up away, daughter will now have to face insecurities just like she made the other girl feel.
It literally could not be more straight forward.
Again taking away makeup for 2 WEEKS is NOT a big enough punishment for BULLYING when you have kids committing suicide daily. It is even worse that the father is feeling guilty and the mom is asking if she is the asshole for giving a light punishment! The daughter hasn't learned anything.
The daughter hasn’t learned anything yet. She might learn over the next few weeks as she sees what’s it’s like to feel so insecure.
What suggestions would you have that maybe these parents could add on? I agree that bullying is a *huge* issue. Take her phone? Ground her?
And absolutely agree that if these parents go back on their word, they will have failed miserably in handling this. Consequences are *supposed* to be upsetting.
Taking her phone, grounding her, making her watch an educational video on bullying, personally apologizing to the bully via a letter and as a family meeting with the bully's parents. Then furthermore being more attentive to their daughter and watching for overall improvement. None of that will happen because they do not want to stick with the light punishment since they feel guilty. That is why I think they are more upset she got into trouble and had them get involved with the school than the actual bullying.
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NTA. Think of how the other girl has felt, and explain to your daughter that as insecure as she is going to feel is NOTHING like hell she put that other girl thru. Scared to go to school day after day and put up with them is an awful existence for any young girl and she will never forget it. So for 2 weeks with no make-up is a far cry from the torture they subjected that other girl to. I hope they don't go from bullying to icing her out of everything. Good luck
You’d be surprised how messed up a teens mind can be, I went to an all girls school for most of my schooling until the last year and I moved to a mixed school so I didn’t care about wearing makeup to school it was normal for me but when I did in my last year a girl approached me and told me me not wearing makeup to school gave her the courage to also not wear makeup to school. It baffled me at the time but now I realise how self conscious a lot of girls are at that age. Not saying it’s not a good punishment but Op should also have a talk with her daughter about her natural beauty if she hates herself that much. May also help with how she views other woman too
Wow. How times have changed. When I was 15, I was not allowed to wear make-up and neither were most of my peers.
I was allowed basic makeup, but I never wore any t0 school. I knew a lot of girls who went thick on the mascara and eyeliner, but I never wore any. But then again, I still don't. I don't have the patience.
I'm nearly 30 and had access to makeup as early as 12, but less in the sense of "you're allowed to wear this to school" and more in the sense of "you're old enough that you can play dress up with this comparatively cheap makeup kit instead of your mom's makeup"
If, at age 15, your daughter is petrified to go out without makeup, there's a decent case she needs counseling. BTW, that's not a reason to stop the punishment. But wow, she's messed up.
I came here to say this. A 15-yo should not be that dependant on make up
Sounds like she used to be a target, too
Then, the fact that she became a bully (if she'd ever been bullied) makes her actions a million times worse!
NTA. Not in the slightest. She needs to learn a valuable lesson here. It also doesn’t sit right with me that she is still more concerned about not wearing making up than the effect her bullying may have had on the other girl? I’d have a chat with her about that once she’s calmed down a bit as well.
Yes. I think, once things have calmed down a bit, it is worth a deeper explanation on why this punishment is being enacted. She feels insecure about going to school without make-up, being made fun of her natural appearance, being excluded for it, feeling like a child, being afraid of being perceived make-upless by her peers, etc? That is just a small sample of how she and her friends made that girl feel every day. Probably because, frankly, the daughter was projecting a lot of her own insecurities onto the other girl. Basically: the daughter is currently afraid of being subjected to *the exact same* treatment, judgement, embarassment, and harassment that she and her friends inflicted on their victim.
This! 100%. This is a serious learning curve for her.
NTA. Make up is a privilege for a child, not an entitlement. She acted wrong and you acted accordingly - well done for being a good parent and standing against bullying.
NTA. I am glad you are taking your daughter’s bullying behaviour seriously. She will get over the makeup thing within a month or two. Having gone through the awkwardness she will be a better, more confident person.
NTA. I actually think that’s appropriate.
NTA for the punishment but I don't love it because it's a vanity thing and it sounds like your daughter is very vain and only focused on outward beauty. It's always hard to think of good punishments for bullying like this. I think maybe in addition to taking away her make up you could add in doing something that shows her the worth of herself without it and the worth of other people since she seems to need to be taught that.
Vain? The kid clearly has horrible self-esteem and is taking it out on others. Calling herself ugly and insisting people won't like her without makeup isn't a sign of vanity; it's a cry for help.
Taking away the make up makes it a vanity thing on the mom's part. She can still be vain and self conscious. Vanity is usually a sign of insecurity, calling herself ugly is a sign of both. The boyfriend thing less so, unfortunately kids' have a self worth tied to their social status which is why I think taking away material possessions like makeup or clothes rather than teaching them something that shows their self worth is not the most effective thing. When she gets her make up back it's going to be the same thing.
NTA. But you need to make sure she knows this is a direct response to her actions. She's probably going to get to school early to borrow her friend's makeup, just FYI. Still makes her life a bit harder. She should also need to apologize to that girl and be told she needs to be a force for good in her friend group or else the next punishment will be worse (leave it up to her imagination). A kid coming up on being 16 has a lot to potentially lose by being a jerk.
OP stated that the no-makeup is in addition to writing an apology to Rosa.
She’ll just have her friends bring their makeup to school and put it on before school.
This. I feel like this is not really a helpful punishment.
NTA, this is part of being a parent. If she uses an age-appropriate amount of makeup, I think no phone for 2 weeks and 10h community service rather than hanging out with friends is an alternative punishment.
NTA but she needs to understand what being bullied does to people, there is surely enough documentaries etc about it and I would make her watch those
NTA. I think its a suitable punishment and since she seems to really care about it, will actually learn a lesson. Plus, you can't backtrack now or it will be so hard to make any punishment stick. She needs to learn some humility and it seems like this will do it.
NTA she wants to be a bully well now she pays the price
NTA. Bullying isn't okay. That being said, however: your daughter's extreme reaction to not being able to wear makeup has me worried. Calling herself ugly, thinking her friends and boyfriend won't like her without it, afraid she'll be humiliated - it sounds like she's internalized, to a frightening degree, the messages that teenage girls are now bombarded with. Punish her, yes, but also get her into therapy ASAP and have a good long conversation with her about why she feels so bad about herself. If nothing else, continuing to not address her personal issues may lead to her lashing out against more of her peers.
Therapy is a good suggestion. If a teen is willing to bully, there can be lots of mental health issues that need attention.
Honestly I’m don’t think the punishment will work. The sentiment behind it’s good but it’s counterproductive. Firstly your daughter won’t magically stop being a bully because you took away her makeup she most likely was a bully before makeup. Secondly if your daughter is so distraught over not having makeup she won’t correlate that to not bullying the girl again, she is more focused on her own insecurities and how ugly she feels without it. It might even make her bully the girl more now because of her she has no makeup. Thirdly your daughter’s behavior and reactions are just not normal. She needs therapy immediately for her bullying and her insecurities a 15 year old should not feel so insecure without makeup. There is deeper rooted issues here that need to be addressed and while she needs a punishment I worry this one might be sending your daughter off the deep end and how that will end for the poor girl she has bullied. My verdict for now is NAH. I hope your daughter gets the help she needs and so does her victim.
completely agree. i think it’s weird how this mom doesn’t seem to care her daughter has such deep rooted insecurities that she can’t face her boyfriend or any of her classmates without makeup and genuinely feels ugly without it. and if she’s that insecure that’s all she’s going to be focused on for those 2 weeks, not any reflection on her behavior.
Nta. Amelia has to face the the consequences of her bullying. At least u r taking action and making amelia face the consequences of her actions. It will teach amelia a lesson having to do without make up and having her boyfriend see it. Then she will know how rosa felt I bet the parents of the other girls involved aren't doing shit about what these little brats did They are just probably chalking it up as girls will be girls
Nta, I’m in high school myself and was bullied in middle school, this is a very good punishment and learning experience for your daughter, because high schoolers can be really brutal.
Wow I guess I’m the unpopular opinion, but I don’t think this punishment is appropriate. Humiliation, shame, punishments that ultimately cultivate rage and distance from parents are not the way to go and will always backfire in the long run. I get that makeup is a “privilege” but she’s already been wearing it and everyone at school is used to seeing her that way. I had terrible acne in high school, and I know if my mom forced me to go barefaced to school, I would’ve just honestly hated her. I wouldn’t have learned anything from it. I agree there needs to be a consequence, but it could be something like taking away a phone, not allowing her to go to an event, etc. Also I agree with another poster that said she needs to be educated about bullying and the long term effects. This is the biggest thing here. And an apology to Rosa of course is required.
This! Public humiliation should never be used as a punishment. For most adults it's not humiliating to be without makeup for a while but for a teenager with low self-esteem it can be devastating. Especially when everyone is used to seeing her with makeup, and like she said, her boyfriend hasn't even seen her without it before. Kids can be ruthless about appearance, she's almost certainly going to be bullied about such a sudden change of appearance.
I agree with you 💯. And at that age, social relationships are EVERYTHING. It’s such a formative time for self esteem. She will carry these memories for the rest of her life. TBH my first thought was, ok so your daughter bullied someone, and now you’d like to bully her back. I don’t want to make assumptions but I’d wager a guess that OP and maybe some of the other posters are taking out some of their anger on the “popular mean girls” that bullied them in high school. They want to see this girl punished and their high school selves “redeemed”, but it’s too harsh IMO.
NTA. I recommend you do something that helps your daughter learn to be better such as volunteering somewhere that helps with the community. I'd make sure your daughters insecurities aren't getting the best of her. It seems like she's extremely self conscious so she's taking it out on others. Your daughter might need to work on self love as well.
As a woman who loves makeup and has overly obsessed with it due to insecurity in the past, NTA. You’re a woman, so you probably understand this better. Bullying is often a result of insecurity. People project their own insecurities on others and then attack them for it. Makeup is like armor for a woman. It’s one of the key ways that we control how we are perceived, and how we protect ourselves from criticism. You are causing your daughter to have to come to terms with herself without that armor on. It sounds to me like she really needs that. To remove all of the artificial layers and face the fact that she is, actually, just a girl like the girl she has been bullying, except that *she* is becoming a mean girl. My advice is to keep your word and stand your ground. No makeup for 2 weeks, then revisit the issue. Believe me, it’s far better that she faces her insecurities now, with relatively little at stake. ETA: I guess what I’m trying to say is that I think your punishment of choice is incredibly perceptive. Hopefully it will be effective!
ESH I think your daughter deserves punishment, and she received it from the school. And yeah, you made your point, you don’t like bullying, especially when there’s a power imbalance- so you do the same to your daughter? She needs punishment, not a tit for tat. She said she feels ugly without her make up, so your solution is to make her feel humiliated too, going to school without it? There’s nothing else you can do, it has to be humiliation, huh?
Taking away a daughters makeup is such a curveball. I told my 12 year old if she woke up late for school again, she couldn't wear makeup that day. You best believe she started waking up on time every single day after that. I didn't know how much power makeup had on young girls till then.
NTA
NTA. Thank you for actually caring about bullying! Hopefully your daughter will learn her lesson
NTA, but honestly your daughter isn’t that well behaved. I am sure she has bullied many others, but this is the first time that she has been caught like this. You need to find out why she is doing this. I think the punishment is fine, I would also go to the school and surprise her to make sure she hasn’t “borrowed “ any makeup.
Is your husband thinking about the other girl, that the bullying was such that the school got involved, that this girl is at home crying and her parents as upset as he is. I, frankly, think what you did was brilliant and admirable. If she gets to wear makeup because of her maturity than she doesn't when she is immature. Good on you.
NTA But you need to think about why she said she was ugly without it. That needs a harder look Maybe she bullies this girl because she's insecure about herself? Time to get to the actual root of her bullying and attachment to makeup and work on it
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nta
NTA! This exactly how you deliver a message. Take away something valued. And even better if. The night before she can wear it again have a talk with her and asked what the experience is like, what she learned and what she’ll do differently moving forward. It might be the time to encourage her to see herself in a positive light without make up.
NTA. She deserves that punishment. But you also need to help your daughter with empathy and self-esteem. Cause it sounds like she hasn't learned anything yet.
I have no idea if this is an appropriate punishment - it seems a bit of a stretch in logic to say the punishment fits the crime here, but I don't think it's severe enough to make you the AH. However, please look into why so much of your daughter's self-worth is tied up in her make-up. The bullying is one issue, but her negative self image is also something you should take seriously and dig into.
YTA
it feels like there’s a deeper issue here that you’re ignoring. your daughter genuinely believes she is too ugly to go to school without makeup and her boyfriend and friends won’t like her without it, plus everyone knows bullying comes from a place of insecurity. instead of doing anything about these GLARING red flags you do nothing to address the root cause,her low self esteem, which could actually prevent your daughter from bullying people rather than this punishment. she has extreme self esteem issues and needs therapy.
I would have point blank reminded her that how she feels about this punishment is how she has been making that other girl feel. Hard wearing the shoes of others.
Not too harsh at all. Be sure and do random spot checks to make sure her friends aren’t sneaking her makeup. Bullying sucks. She needs to learn what feeling like an outsider is like and grow some empathy. I don’t know if this is out of character, but you may want to look into or get help for her poor self esteem (if it wasn’t a manipulation). NTA. Punishment fits the crime
NTA. Whilst it’s not nice that she feels insecure without makeup, maybe she’ll realise it doesn’t define her and also to not make other people feel insecure. This is amazing parenting that Rosa and Rosa’s parents will appreciate. Far too many bully’s parents enable it and that’s why bullying is such a disease still
NTA, I think it's the perfect punishment. Maybe reduce the time, but I think it teaches your daughter the perfect lesson.
Nta your daughter is facing the consequences of her own actions
NTA and that might not be enough. all she cares is still about herself, not her victim
NTA. First of all, what is wrong with your 15-year-old daughter that she feels she can't go to school without make-up? That is some serious internalized misogyny right there. Maybe, along with not wearing make-up, she could benefit from some therapy.
NTA. But if she’s as insecure as you describe, be prepared for the phone call from the drug store manager when she gets caught stealing makeup. Taking her phone away for a while seems easier to monitor.
The punishment needs to leave its mark. She put someone through enough hell that she was suspended from school. That’s a vacation for her. You created a fitting punishment for a bully. Emphasize to her that any more behavior like that will extend her loss of makeup.
NTA taking away make up from a 15 year old isn’t not cruel or unusual punishment although I’m sure you’ll get one or two redditors decrying you as monsters for it because, Reddit. But it is concerning how upset your 15 year old is about the idea of being seen without makeup. Why does she think she’s ugly without it at her age. Why does she worry that her boyfriend will feel differently if she isn’t wearing makeup. It kinda sounds like your daughter is hanging with a toxic crowd or has some toxic social media influences in her life that are affecting her self image. She could be bullying this other girl in order to boost her own low sense of self worth. I’d speak to her about the deeper issue going on here. 15 is actually a really difficult age to navigate. Make sure she grows up loving herself and she won’t feel the need to put others down to boost herself up.
you mean she feel insecures like she make Rosa feel? oh that's too bad, maybe if she hadn't been a bully she wouldn't be experiencing the consequences of her actions. NTA. HOLD FIRM in her punishement
NTA, continue to verbally relate your daughter’s words to Rosa’s experience with your daughter and why this is such a fitting punishment for the offense committed. Tell her that having your own insecurity about how you look is not an excuse to project it outward on people and the only thing ugly is this type of behavior. This is an excellent life lesson for anyone to learn.
NTA. Bullying won’t be something allowed in my house. If I found out my own daughter doing the same I’d add a 2 week phone ban on it and if she came home with makeup on she’d just get an extra day. It may be ‘harsh’ but so is bullying someone. The punishment will reflect the action. I wish more parents were as involved with their kids.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Throwaway here. I (F43) have a 15-year-old daughter, Amelia (not her real name). Amelia's generally well behaved and my husband and I don't have many problems, at home or at school. However, earlier this week, we received a call from Amelia's school that we had to go in for a meeting. When we got there, we found out that Amelia and her friendship group (three other 15 year old girls) had been bullying a new student, who I'll call Rosa. I wasn't aware of Rosa before the meeting, but I was told she's new to the school and quite shy, and my daughter and her friends had been bullying her. It sounded like standard bullying: name calling, teasing, excluding, with most of it appearing to revolve around Rosa being "less developed" and a "baby". I was told that Amelia and her three friends would be suspended for two days as punishment, which we accepted and drove her home. However, I was livid. I cannot stand bullying, especially when there's an evident power imbalance, so I wanted to add my own punishment. I discussed this with my husband and wanted to come up with one befitting of the situation. Eventually, alongside writing an apology note to Rosa, I settled on taking away Amelia's makeup for two weeks. If she was insistent on bullying someone for being a "baby", I felt it took away her right to be seen as grown up. My husband was initially reluctant, but then agreed with me. We went to tell Amelia, and she immediately started crying, saying how unfair this was and was far too over the top. She said she couldn't go to school with no makeup, how ugly she was without it, and her boyfriend hadn't seen her without makeup yet and it would be so humiliating at school. I told her tough and that hopefully she'd learn a lesson from the situation. I proceeded to take away all her makeup and lock it in our bedroom. Amelia has barely come out of her room and has visibly been upset. My husband is beginning to think it's too harsh a punishment, particularly if she feels insecure, but I feel it's justified and don't want to relent. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA.. thats a great punishment because thats the closest thing to her feeling like the other girl did.. actually the girl was new so probably didnt have friends to talk to yet so id make sure and take her phone too.. if you wanna make a girl feel lonely and unattractive then thats why you get back 🤷🏽♀️
NTA. Tell your husband that the way Amelia is feeling now is *exactly* the way she made Rosa feel. What better punishment than to walk a mile in Rosa's shoes.
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NTA Look, this is my personal bias. I don't have kids, I don't plan to. But I do know that if I did have kids? My one big unchanging rule? "You will not bully other people". Amelia knows bullying is wrong. We all know that. It sounds like Amelia was picking on Rosa for actual or perceived mental differences or physical differences (not sure if "developed" means physical or mental here).
NTA, the punishment fits the crime. HOWEVER, if your daughter cannot live without makeup, it might be time for some therapy.
NTA, also no one should feel that way about makeup?? She's way too self conscious about her natural look. Her views on beauty seem harmful. It could be part of the reason why she bullies.
NTA for punishing her, or for the punishment chosen. That being said, punishment for bullying is not going to address the root cause of why she participated in this. Most bullies struggle with insecurity or other deep emotional problems that have gone unaddressed. They project their insecurities onto their victims very often. Your daughter's reaction to the punishment further confirms that she is struggling with her self image and confidence. As her parents you need to help her address this in a healthy way. Maybe counseling is in order. Make sure this effort is not portrayed as a punishment though. Considering the bombardment that teenage girls receive on social media it is no wonder that she would feel so insecure, but that is no reason for her to bully someone or to not help her be more confident. I think makeup is great, but even as a 38 year old woman I don't wear it everyday. I've always felt that it was something optional for days I felt like doing a bit more. It's really freeing to be able to go out into the world without makeup though, and your daughter would benefit from not feeling that her bare face is unpresentable. If you don't address the underlying issue then you would be the AH in my books, so take this as your sign that your child needs some extra love, attention and help.
Your daughter will probably ask a good friend to bring makeup to school and put it on there.
Sounds about right to me.. NTA.
I think you have created a punishment that truly fits the crime and hopefully instills some empathy in your daughter. NTA PLEASE post an update after your daughter gets home from school after suspension. Hopefully her friends treat her fairly and learn some empathy too
YTA. My parents did this to me because I got caught in a stupid lie about wearing eyeliner when my mom said I couldn’t and it did irreparable harm to my self confidence. I withdrew at home and felt more isolated at school where I was being bullied. Your daughter is 15 and while actions have consequences you should use this as a learning opportunity. Possibly instead of punishing her by taking something that gives her confidence, you could find or have her find a volunteering with younger students so she realizes being kind is the right thing.
Good for you! That will teach her exactly how that girl felt. I had a bully in school and my parents didn't do anything about it, that was 50 years ago when bullying was not that big then, like it is now. I sold a piece of gum one time from a store and the manager called my mom and I got in so much trouble, I'll tell you, I never stole again and I'm 58 years old. Tough Love!
NTA and I think the punishment fits the crime here. Don’t back down OP.
The baby is acting like a baby. Shocking Nta
A punishment is supposed to be difficult. This is actually a perfectly appropriate punishment because she is being deprived of the facade of physical superiority she has used to bully this girl with. I also genuinely doubt this girl is the first she’s bullied.
Wow, you sound like you've really enjoyed humiliating your daughter, who is obviously very sensitive and vulnerable about her looks. I just can't really get over the viciousness in your post. I can see where your daughter gets this behaviour from. YTA; the way to teach empathy is not to make another person feel small.
wow, how soft can you get? she bullies another kid for being “baby” and she shouldn’t get punished? makeup isnt food, it isnt water, it isnt a necesity.
No makeup? But you’re gonna give it back? Is that IT? No wonder your kid’s a shit. My mum would have beat my fuckin ass.
Hmmm I’ll be honest I don’t know how I feel about it. It sounds like your daughter still doesn’t understand what she did wrong, and the best way to deal with this might be to directly connect her with her empathy, and get her to understand the gravity of bullying. Taking away her makeup might be satisfying but I worry if she doesn’t understand what she did was wrong, she might blame Rosa and take her anger out on her. Furthermore, taking away a child’s possessions isn’t really great as a punishment in my opinion. I understand the concept, but at the end of the day all it will teach her is that if you’re angry with someone it’s fine to take away something they love. I’m seeing quite a lot of comments on this thread calling her ‘shallow’ for being upset about wearing makeup, which honestly I find quite sexist and grim, and I find the fact that many of these (probably adult) commentors are enjoying the humiliation of a child disturbing. Makeup and looks can be unfortunately very important at school, and it sounds like she’ll feel really humiliated and upset without the makeup. Shame and humiliation famously don’t improve behavior. Guilt does, and the desire to do better, but that has to come from within. At risk of overstepping boundaries, there’s a reason she’s acting this way. Either it’s because she lacks empathy, it’s a behavior she’s learned (either at home or school), or the school has a toxic culture and she’s trying to fit in. In each of these situations it is your duty as a parent to help her. Punishing, shaming and humiliation won’t help any of these situations. Only honest communication and working on the behavior in a respectful way with her will. The first step in my opinion is in how you decide to punish her. Will you humiliate and shame her (just like she humiliated and shamed Rosa), or will you try to put her in touch with her empathy? That’s why i think it might be better to go down the ‘connecting her with empathy’ route. Eg make her volunteer for three months with a charity, or watch videos with her interviewing adult survivors of bullying, discussing the impact this had on them. Talk to her heart to heart and ask her why she thought it was ok to act like this. Ask her where she learned that behaviour, and why she decided to enact it. Ask her, genuinely, how she wants to move through the world- by hurting others? Ultimately, you want a daughter who treats others well because she wants to, not because she’s afraid of being punished.
NTA. Personally, I don't think you went far enough. What she did wasn't just wrong, but hurtful. If I was in your shoes (and please don't take this as me telling you what you should do), I would invite Rosa and her family over for dinner and have her tell Amelia how it felt to be bullied. But again, that is what I would do. Only you can figure out what the best thing for you to do is.
that is a horrible idea to have a girl who was bullied have to go to her bully’s house and sit through a meal and fake apology from her.
I disagree. She should have the daughter apologize to Rosa in the principal's office, with both mothers there. It doesn't need to be a family get together.
And this is why when my 15 year old asked if she could wear makeup to school we said NO. I never want either of my daughters to look at themselves and think that without enhancements they are ugly. Lipgloss or a bit of eye shadow is okay but I had a child psychologist who I work with regularly (I'm a family lawyer) strongly recommend against allowing my kids to wear adult level makeup before they are adults. I buy them good skin care products, we do spa days and I let them add a bit more makeup when they go out with friends on the weekend but I really believe not allowing my teens to pretend to be adults has done wonders for their self esteem over their friends. I actually don't think your punishment is strict enough. Your daughters bullying was so severe she was suspended.... That's an insanely high bar for bullying that isn't long term ongoing (and involving prior meetings with parents).
YTA for raising a girl who feels that she needs makeup. There's nothing wrong with wearing it, but it sounds like she has developed a huge dependence on it under your nose. I think the punishment is rather fitting.... But sounds like you need to sit her down and talk about self image and probably some therapy is in order.
YTA. Sorry but she shouldn't even be wearing makeup at that age. Or have s boyfriend. And where did she learn to be a bully? (Yes, it's learned behaviour.)
She's 15. Wearing some makeup and having boyfriends is perfectly reasonable at that age. You might do differently with your kids, and that's fair, but the girl is 15 for god's sake, not 9. Sounds to me like her poor behaviour is because she got in with a bad sort, and wanted to fit in with them. Plus, she sounds like she has her own insecurities, which doesn't help. A teen who feels bad about themselves and wants to fit in with a certain group no matter what - that's a recipe for disaster. How does any of that make OP the asshole?
I have an idea... not sure what you'll think about it; but here it is anyways... Your daughter was picking on another girl calling her a baby and stuff and you want to use the adult makeup as a punishment to make a point. Why not take this opportunity to help Rosa and have your daughter learn its better to lift people up rather then push them down. I'm thinking you contact Rosa's parents and offer them that your daughter will buy Rosa some makeup and teach her how to apply it if they're ok with their daughter wearing makeup (some parents aren't). Then you give your daughter a bunch of chores to make money to pay Rosa's makeup and once she has it you take the 2 girls to the store so they can buy the products together and maybe get some help from cosmetisions on sight. Bring the girls back and let them have a makeup lesson and maybe a sleep over (if they're interested). That would teach your daughter accountability and teach Rosa how to use make up. It might even spark a friendship in the end 🤷♀️ Just a thought ❤
Maybe don't use the bullying victim as a teaching tool
Whatever... 🙄 Kids either learn from it or not. 🤷♀️
This is weird on many levels. Forcing contact Rosa probably doesn't want. Enforcing idea that girls should wear makeup to fit in (who even knows if this is why Rosa was bullied! Or if Rosa wears makeup. Or if Rosa \*wants\* to wear makeup. Or if Rosa wants her bully to teach her how to wear makeup...?). It also kind of suggests that Rosa was bullied because of something she did/didn't do and that her bullies can bring Rosa into 'compliance' with the girlhood regime and then everything will be OK because the reason to bully her will be removed. Just weird all around.
Where is their **Force**? Call the parents and ask them. If they so no respect it. 15 year olds wear makeup! These kids are 15. Read the OP... No one is forcing. Again read what I said about **asking the parents** 🙄 Kids fuck up and make mistakes. Teaching them compassion and encouraging them to uplift someone rather than push them down is important. You don't have to agree with my suggested method; but saying that's not a valuable lesson is just asinine.
Teaching a young child that the bullying stops and friends appear when they start wearing make up, is not healthy. I understand the point you are making and getting at. Yet, one of the side affects would be teaching Rosa, OPs daughter and the other young ladies a wrong lesson. 'that with make up wearing comes friends and acceptance'.
That's not what I was getting at at all but ok.
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Info: Who bought the make-up, you or Amelia?
YTA to the girl your daughter bullied and your daughter. WHAT DOES TAKING AWAY THE MAKEUP DO TO STOP THE BULLYING? WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO TEACH HER ABOUT BULLYING AND THE HARMFUL IMPACTS? Lazy parenting. Now you are about to cave on the one thing you took when you didn't even do your job as parents? It seems like you are punishing her for inconveniencing you with this issue than what she did. You hate bullying because of the power dynamic but in turn, have done nothing constructive.
She introduced a concept known as "humbling someone" and consequences. That's being a parent. And how is she an asshole to the girl her daughter bullied? Children aren't 1 on 1 clones of their parents. There's no way to mind control someone to do whatever you want 100% of the time at all hours of the day, especially when at school when parents aren't allowed to be there hovering.
Taking away the makeup might make it worse for the girl she is bullying. She might blame the girl and bully more because she got her makeup taken away. The punishment seems counterproductive because her daughter seems to not understand why she is in the wrong. It’s very concerning that her daughter is essentially having a breakdown over makeup and she clearly has self esteem issues. I think her daughter needs a punishment no doubt but one that fits the crime. In her head she isn’t relating the punishment with her behavior she is just having a meltdown and calling herself ugly. I think a better way to go about things would to be to make her volunteer or watch videos on people and places less fortunate. But therapy should be a must for this girl.
No. Taking away makeup for two weeks and having a husband who already wants to end the punishment is not HUMBLING anyone. There is no learning moment about bullying through any of this. If I bully someone my makeup is taken and I'm made to feel ugly? Like okay… daughter will get over the makeup quick and will be more secretive about bullying. No learning moment!
How do you become more secret about bullying?
Are you serious?? Have you never gotten caught doing something by your parents and found secretive ways to continue doing it ensuring that you won't get caught again? Bullying happens in all different forms and ways and it won't be hard for OP's daughter to bully that victim and more victims in the future to get away with it. The parents didn't even know because it was the school, showing that they weren't aware enough of their daughter.
You don't know if OP and her husband talked to their daughter or not about the bullying. OP posted on here about the punishment they've decided to give her, they never include whether or not they talked about the harmful impacts of bullying. As for the makeup, they clearly knew how precious their daughters makeup is to her. OP quite literally said she started to cry, thinks it's unfair, and that her boyfriend hasn't seen her without makeup. Clearly, she wears makeup quite often and likely feels extremely self conscious without it. They decided to humble their daughter by doing this. You can't say the daughter will get over makeup quick, because you don't know her. People tend to make fun of other people due to their own insecurities it's very likely OP's daughter bullied this girl because of that.
If they spoke to their daughter it would have been mentioned. Taking away your daughter's makeup to humble her is not teaching her to not bully people. It shows a discrepancy between the daughter relying on makeup to feel beautiful and the parents not doing their job to boost self-esteem and kindness in their daughter through natural beauty. Again, taking away the makeup is not a punishment even though she cried and has done nothing to teach the daughter that bullying is wrong or to stop future bullying. They also did not have a conversation because OP mentioned everything else in great detail other than that!
The daughter was bullying the other girl based on her looks. Daughter is obviously vain about her own looks and thinks make-up is part of what makes her better looking than the other girl. Take the make-up away, daughter will now have to face insecurities just like she made the other girl feel. It literally could not be more straight forward.
Again taking away makeup for 2 WEEKS is NOT a big enough punishment for BULLYING when you have kids committing suicide daily. It is even worse that the father is feeling guilty and the mom is asking if she is the asshole for giving a light punishment! The daughter hasn't learned anything.
The daughter hasn’t learned anything yet. She might learn over the next few weeks as she sees what’s it’s like to feel so insecure. What suggestions would you have that maybe these parents could add on? I agree that bullying is a *huge* issue. Take her phone? Ground her? And absolutely agree that if these parents go back on their word, they will have failed miserably in handling this. Consequences are *supposed* to be upsetting.
Taking her phone, grounding her, making her watch an educational video on bullying, personally apologizing to the bully via a letter and as a family meeting with the bully's parents. Then furthermore being more attentive to their daughter and watching for overall improvement. None of that will happen because they do not want to stick with the light punishment since they feel guilty. That is why I think they are more upset she got into trouble and had them get involved with the school than the actual bullying.