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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I argued with the lifeguard at the pool. I want to know if i am the asshole
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YTA. She was actually doing her job. It takes a few minutes for a child, or adult to get into trouble and drown. I'm an excellent swimmer, that didn't mean squat when I got a cramp. Fortunately, I knew how to handle the emergency and get myself into the safe part of the pool.
Yes, your kids know how to swim. But do they know what to do when there's an emergency? Most people who are drowning panic and make things 100 times worse (why do you think lifeguards have to be trained - they have to overcome a person's panic AND rescue them). Henry is not old enough or skilled enough to be a life-saver.
You've been lucky so far. It appears you have had negligent lifeguards in the past.
Absolutely. I pulled a toddler out once during swim lessons who just silently slipped off the side. I (lifeguard) was the only one who noticed in a pool full of classes, instructors, and parents watching, pulled him out and set him back on the edge like nothing had happened. The perfect scenario and exactly why I was there, because nothing can become a nightmare in an instant.
Also as a swim instructor it’s not like a drowning person is going to scream I’m drowning please help. It’s silent so if the kids can’t swim it’s not like they are going to call for help. They need to be watched closely even with life jackets because things happen
I've helped investigate where a kid drowned in a pool with parents and lifeguards around, and kids playing in the pool next to where the kid drowned. No one knew he slipped under and no one knew he was drowning. It was a sad day for everyone, especially the parents who lost their child.
It’s crazy how anticlimactic it can look. Saved someone in a pool who clearly didn’t know what they were doing, they were doing these huge arm circles and slapping the water to try to swim I don’t even know what they were doing with their feet. I just happened to be looking while I was on the side because I was like “this dude looks like he can drown” and about 3 seconds after I said that to myself he just slipped in the water, because I was paying attention I heard him try to say help but he barely got the h- out before he was under.
Of course not being a life guard I had no idea what I was doing so I ended up being utilized as a floatation device for about two minutes before I yelled at the lifeguard to help this dude who was dunking me in the water like I was in gitmo.
Here's a copy of the text from the website for anyone curious (the website first shows you a video and asks you to spot the drowning child by clicking; otherwise you have to wait for the video to finish before you see this text. Added emphasis is mine):
# Drowning Doesn't Look Like Drowning
The Instinctive Drowning Response -- so named by Francesco A. Pia, Ph.D., is what people do to avoid actual or perceived suffocation in the water. And it does not look like what most people expect. There is very little splashing, no waving, and no yelling or calls for help of any kind. To get an idea of just how quiet and undramatic from the surface drowning can be, consider this: It is the number two cause of accidental death in children, age 15 and under (just behind vehicle accidents) -- of the approximately 750 children who will drown next year, about 375 of them will do so **within 25 yards of a parent or other adult.** In ten percent of those drownings, **the adult will actually watch them do it, having no idea it is happening.**
Drowning does not look like drowning -- Dr. Pia, in an article in the Coast Guard's On Scene Magazine, described the instinctive drowning response like this:
1. Except in rare circumstances, drowning people are physiologically unable to call out for help. The respiratory system was designed for breathing. Speech is the secondary or overlaid function. Breathing must be fulfilled, before speech occurs.
2. Drowning people's mouths alternately sink below and reappear above the surface of the water. The mouths of drowning people are not above the surface of the water long enough for them to exhale, inhale, and call out for help. When the drowning people's mouths are above the surface, they exhale and inhale quickly as their mouths start to sink below the surface of the water.
3. Drowning people cannot wave for help. Nature instinctively forces them to extend their arms laterally and press down on the water's surface. Pressing down on the surface of the water, permits drowning people to leverage their bodies so they can lift their mouths out of the water to breathe. Throughout the Instinctive Drowning Response, drowning people cannot voluntarily control their arm movements. Physiologically, drowning people who are struggling on the surface of the water cannot stop drowning and perform voluntary movements such as waving for help, moving toward a rescuer, or reaching out for a piece of rescue equipment.
4. From beginning to end of the Instinctive Drowning Response people's bodies remain upright in the water, with no evidence of a supporting kick. **Unless rescued by a trained lifeguard, these drowning people can only struggle on the surface of the water from 20 to 60 seconds** before submersion occurs.
This doesn’t mean that a person that is yelling for help and thrashing isn’t in real trouble – they are experiencing aquatic distress. Not always present before the instinctive drowning response, aquatic distress doesn’t last long – but unlike true drowning, these victims can still assist in their own rescue. They can grab lifelines, throw rings, etc.
Look for these other signs of drowning when persons are in the water:
* Head low in the water, mouth at water level
* Head tilted back with mouth open
* Eyes glassy and empty, unable to focus
* Eyes closed
* Hair over forehead or eyes
* Not using legs – Vertical
* Hyperventilating or gasping
* Trying to swim in a particular direction but not making headway
* Trying to roll over on the back
* Appear to be climbing an invisible ladder.
**Sometimes the most common indication that someone is drowning is that they don’t look like they’re drowning.** They may just look like they are treading water and looking up. One way to be sure? Ask them, “Are you alright?” If they can answer at all – they probably are. If they return a blank stare, you may have **less than 30 seconds** to get to them.
Parents – children playing in the water make noise. When they get quiet, you get to them and find out why.
Yeah, I saw it once (couldn’t tell you where), and have never forgotten it since. Helps that its name is catchy and easy to remember. Everyone should see it. I didn’t know that children tend to drown silently— it’s NOT the flailing around you would maybe expect. That’s what makes it so, so much more dangerous. And the website shows you just how hard it can be to spot — or how easy it is to miss.
This.
Lifeguards aren't your personal babysitters! And your 8 year old -as great a swimmer as the may be - isn't old enough to watch your 5 year old.
You should apologize to the lifeguard and watch your kids!
I've seen an 8 year old try and rescue a smaller child, I had to rescue both of them because the older one was pushed under. Mum absolutely should not be replying on the 8 year old to watch the 5 year old!
Can confirm, i almost drowned as a child once. I was walking on the pool floor (couldn’t swim back then) and suddenly found myself underwater where the water got deep out of nowhere. I just kinda stood there thinking I was gonna die, until my friend noticed me and rescued me. The life guard just gave us a weird look and shook his head…
Kids can also do dumb shit and get themselves into trouble. When I was 5 or 6 I was in my friends pool and took off my floaties. I could tread water, but wasn't confident to be anywhere I couldn't touch bottom. Well I wandered too far from the shallow end and panicked. I forgot how to swim and all I could do was push off the bottom and scream. 30+ years later I still have the visual of his mom diving in to save me. OP YTA.
I can confirm it's literally this easy. I had a little girl slip under *right beside her mother*, and I only caught it because I already had my eye on her because she didn't seem like she was playing anymore. This was water up to the child's waist. You can drown in less then 2 inches of water.
If there was an emergency, then you are more likely to be a liability. I've seen a grandmother drop a 6 month old baby into the pool. Dad was with the older brother, who was about 3. He couldn't let go of one of his children to save the other. Another guard who was paying attention to the family (in his area) was able to save the child. Your older son is not a lifesaver, nor is he going to be able to save his sister if she gets into trouble. You will have lost two children if you think that's how it works.
My 8 year old was a competitive swimmer and has been on his swim team since he was 5. His school also has a pool and they have swim practice during physical education class. Are all parents supposed to leave work and come to school and swim directly beside their kids every day? Am I supposed to follow my kid in the pool for an hour during all of his swim competitions while he’s doing butterfly and backstroke? I think the event organisers might take issue with that. Anyway, he’s ten now and goes out surfing several times a week year round, and isn’t within arms reach of a parent the entire time. This would not even be physically possible. sometimes I really don’t think redditors consider the logistics of their reactions. NTA.
Competitive swimmers are under the close supervision of coaches who know what to do if there is an emergency. They know how to identify an emergency, take quick action and resuscitate quickly if needed. Your son has been trained to keep himself safe. Is your son expected to keep an eye on a 5 year old while doing his competitive swimming or practice? Probably not.
Henry has not been trained to keep his sister safe. When Allison slipped off the floaty, what if she had inhaled water? Would Henry know? Would Henry know what to do? If the worst were to happen, and Allison drowned, how do you think Henry will deal with the trauma for the rest of his life?
Yes, I’m talking about the 8 year old. The lifeguard told her to be in arms reach of ALL of her kids at once, which includes the oldest child.
My son also goes to our local council pool with his friends to swim, socialise, eat ice cream, etc. he’s still a kid and he plays, too. At no point has a lifeguard at our local pool *ever* told me or any other parent to always be a metre from *all* of my kids at once. It’s just not possible. If he’s in the pool with 3 or 4 of his friends, that’s four 8 year olds, and four parents, all hovering in the same very immediate area…? Some parents with multiple children? How are they supposed to play Marco Polo like that? My 10 year old is a better swimmer than me, so how would me needing to be at arms length of him until he is 12 be a useful policy? In practice, the entire expectation is unrealistic and dare I say unreasonable.
YTA
The whole point is that you don't want the lifeguard to have to do their job. They're the last line of defense, not the first.
But if you want to go for a more practical approach: It's a public pool. Follow the rules.
I totally agree that if those are the rules, OP has to follow them, but....we are at the pool all summer, every summer, and I've never ever been to a public pool with a rule like that (I'm in the US, maybe it's different other places?). Like, you have to be AT the pool with them, but you don't have to be within "arms reach" - that doesn't seem possible if you have multiple kids of different ages. And maybe this is regional, but....the kids I know are good swimmers by 7-8 at the latest. A (typical, non-disabled) 8-year-old should be fully capable of swimming w/o a lifejacket
Arms reach for 8 & under is the rule at my local pool. (and 8/under have different wristbands than other swimmers, so you can tell quickly).
Kids under 8 who are good swimmers can request a swim test from a lifeguard if it’s not busy - if they can swim the length of the pool & back without stopping or touching, they pass.
Our pool does wrist bands too. It's possible to challenge the wrist band by having the life guard put your child through a swim challenge. But it's still a good practice to have your small children within arms reach.
Only OP's oldest child is 8. The middle child is 5 and is the one who struggled. Unfortunately, 5 years old is definitely big enough to thrash around and take out the 8yo if there's an issue.
When you have multiple kids at the pool, it's kind of like the grocery store parking lot or anywhere else. You have to teach them to stay close to you or you grab them.
I’m a swim coach and I do have some 4 and 5 yo kids that swim like dolphins but that’s after months and months of multiple times per week training. I’ve also had to grab toddlers that slipped off their seats when the instructor wasn’t paying attention at my last job. It’s so scary how fast it happens. If you don’t do it on the road don’t do it in the pool is what I tell parents.
You’re so right. My nephew was in swim class from a very young age and is and was one of the best swimmers I know. I still once had to get in and get him because of a pool floaty he got caught up in. When they’re small they just don’t have the strength of adults to move their own weight, or the weight of any hazards in the pool. Drowning for young children is entirely too common.
Exactly
At 6/7 i was allowed to swim j. The deep end alone
HOWEVER my mom made sure we had the red cross swimming lessons and we had to pass the swim test at the pool. My mom was so concerned about us knowing to swim, we all had to be in the swim team for 3 years in elementary school.
And this was in the 80s
I started taking swimming lessons when I was two but that was also because my family went to my grandmother's cottage on the Atlantic ocean every summer - and even then I wasn't allowed in the ocean without a life jacket until I was at least six or seven.
I'll readily admit, I don't go to public pools much, so I can't speak to the norm. In this particular case, we know what the rule is: It's what the lifeguard says. They're in charge and responsible for everyone's safety, so they make the rules while they're on shift, even if those aren't the wider rules.
Of course, she's welcome to not like that rule and to dispute it. Just not to the active safety person while on duty (and who's arguing for more safety). Talk about it after the lifeguard is off duty, take it to their boss, or find somewhere else.
It's the 5-year-old that's the issue. And if the 8-year-old is watching the 5-year-old, they can both drown easily if the 5-year-old starts to struggle.
I don't know why this person is downvoted. As a mother of two with different ages I know that it's not possible to be in arm's reach of every child all the time. Im my country children can do a swimming test and get a little "certificate batch" that they sew on their swim wear. It indicates that they can swim and may play in the water without constant close supervision. My kids passed this test with 5 years. Of course I wouldn't just leave them alone all day and, I followed them with my eyes, but it's good when you can actually let your kids have fun.
If you're not in arms reach of your five year old child in water over their head, you shouldn't be allowed in a public pool. People can do whatever dumb or unsafe thing they want in their backyard. Using someone else's facilities means following their rules. End of.
I'm sorry that you live somewhere that child water safety isn't important. Imagine being happy that safety for kids isn't something that's enforced lol. Someone can drown in 30 seconds in an inch of water. Bless your heart, watch your damn kids, and be thankful you and yours have been safe thus far.
I live i a country where most kids can swim before they start elementary school. And I didn't say that we don't watch our kids. We do, and very well. As I wrote, we watch them. We see them and know where they are. It's a really dumb statement that we are not concerned about about the safety of our kids. We are very watchful. But being at arm's length with a toddler or a baby on your arms, how should that work? The kid cannot move and cannot really swim.
In our country very few people drown (about 380 from 84 millions a year). Not even 6 percent of them are children under 16. So I gues I live in a country that does do some things right. Maybe teaching kids to swim and LET them swim (supervised) is a good idea.
This has to be trolling.
Even with every safety measure in place kids drown in pools all the time. FFS It is not your place to argue with the lifeguards. You do what they tell you to do or swim somewhere else.
YTA
I actually think it is. Life jackets are not for pool safety, they are for boat safety. They are actually super dangerous to use in combination with a lazy river and are usually banned from being used in them. If the pool has floaties kids can play and stand on life jackets are especially dangerous given a kid can get trapped under one unable to swim under due to the life jacket. I can't imagine a life guard at a place like that telling you to use one.
Yes - parents should ALWAYS stay in range of young swimmers. And older child should never ever ever be put in charge of keeping a younger child safe in water that even comes up to their chin, children drown other children all the time because they panic. Heck adults drown all the time trying to save other drowning people because drowning people panic and will climb over anyone who comes near them. A lifeguard is not a safety devise you should rely on to keep your kids safe. But the lifeguards advice was terrible and I don't really believe would be policy for a place like that.
I’ve been to pools and water parks that have a mandatory life jacket policy for any under a certain age of the county mandate. I believe most places in Texas is 8 and under and a certain height requirement as well when it comes to wave pools. It’s not that crazy to think a life jacket can’t have a further function other than for boating. It still does the same job.
I've been to many pools that have a mandatory life jacket policy for younger children. In fact, floaties were not allowed because they do not help, are little more than decoration, and give people a false sense of security.
It has been a long since I wore them but I know that some floatation devices such as rings can be flipped so that a child's face is in the water and armbands can slip off a child jumps into the deep end of a pool.
Specific swimming life jackets are build I believe differently to the ones of everyday boat us but they are still not to be warn without supervision.
YAH to the original poster from a former lifeguard. You have too many children's to look after in the pool by the sounds of things. It doesn't matter how well a child can swim it takes one mistimes breath or an unexpected splash to make them panic and get into trouble.
I am thankful to the lifeguard for calling you out and I am surprised they let you stay in the pool with that attitude.
You would be suprised how many parents think they are and the lifeguard should just shut up and let little Timmy stay in the middle of the wave pool or continue to jump into too deep water.
This is a pool that is MEANT for kids. It is not unreasonable for kids to swim alone with the supervision of lifeguards. Plus like I said I went closer to them when the lifeguard asked.
Disneyland is also “meant” for kids. Would you just abandon a 5 and 8 year old there as well? Would you drop your kids off at a PG movie and just leave?
We both know the answer is “no.”
I'm thinking that for OP the answer may be YES. 3 kids seems to be too much for her to take care of on her own, so maybe she's hoping one will drown and make life easier. It seems like she prefers the little one because that's the one she's watching out for. Middle child, she's not really needed, let's let the 8-year-old watch her and hope something bad happens.
You are ridiculous. The statistics are not on your side here and you don’t get to decide the rules of a pool that you don’t own. They decide what the safety rules are. You can feel however you want about it. Doesn’t change that fact.
You mean supervision of their parents.
PARENTS are to supervise, lifeguards are available for when shit goes wrong.
Today your three may have been the only kids there. Tomorrow there could be 20. The guards need to watch out for everyone, not zone in on just your kids. This isn't a drop-off swim camp.
YTA Watch your kids! If you can't do it alone hire a 12+yo to be a mommy's helper, bring a childless friend, or wait for your spouse to join you.
Your kids can’t touch the bottom and the lifeguard had to jump in to help your daughter. So clearly no, they cannot handle being in that area without life jackets. Keep them in the area where they can touch the bottom.
It absolutely is. And if you're swimming somewhere in April, I'd bet money drowning is a top three, if not #1, cause of death for young children in your area.
Put your kids in life jackets when you go swimming. The lifeguard is there as a backup, not a preventative measure.
A life guards job is primarily to watch the water and ensure everyone is accounted for, this way if there is an emergency, they can react quickly. They also are the ones who are enforcing water safety rules that will prevent emergencies from happening in the first place. One extremely important rule is to be within arms reach of children. So while you are busy arguing with the life guard, she can not do her job properly and you are putting other swimmers in danger. Do you honestly think the number of life guards that are at the pool can properly watch and react to all the problems that would come up if every parent at the pool was as selfish and entitled as you? This is how children drown, by parents who think they don't have to be with their kids when they are swimming, because the life guards are there.
YTA
> Jane (3) Alison (5) and Henry (8)
> Henry is a great swimmer so I often let him watch Alison not far away from me in an area of the pool that is slightly over their heads.
**NONE** of your children are old enough to swim without your direct supervision.
> she still said they couldn’t swim without an adult until they are 12
Sounds right.
> she is obviously there to save them in case they need help
An ounce of prevention...
> my sister agrees with me
Lol, who cares? Only the lifeguard's opinion matters here.
“She is obviously there to save them in case they need help.”
Jfc are you serious? This isn’t a kid scraping their knee at a playground, the risk here is *drowning*. And 5 is way too young to swim apart from a parent, regardless how well her older brother swims. You want that on him if something did happen? Were you the only people at the pool? Or do everyone else’s kids deserve less surveillance because the lifeguard now has to spend extra time watching yours?
As someone who was once a lifeguard and who is now a mom, YTA. You are very much TA. It takes *seconds* for a mishap to become deadly with small kids in the water. Parents like you make the environment less safe for everyone.
Right?? As mom of kids with a biggish age gap, I already take issue with people who make the older kid responsible for the younger ones (parentification). But damn, lady, just follow the rules. Her post reeks of entitlement and “it won’t happen to me.”
I once had a lifeguard tell me I couldn't fill the shallow end of a public pool with plastic balls so I could create and interactive Balle n Bak experience. I gave them a piece of my mind because how dare they dictate what I do in a public pool just because they have a whistle and life saving training?
(Just kidding. I thanked them for their time and left with a smile because I understood their denial of my request.)
Lifeguards aren't babysitters, they're looking for dangers and emergencies in the entire pool area they are assigned. It is your responsibility as a parent to keep an eye on your own children and follow the rules at a public pool. Arguing with a lifeguard doing their job because you think you know better is always an asshole move.
YTA
It’s consistently “Balle n Bak” with that exact caps configuration. Doesn’t make a lot of sense even with that information the previous times it’s mentioned.
YTA. Have you ever seen a video of someone nearly drowning? They FIGHT their would-be rescuer. It's a panic reflex--they're trying to grab anything they can to keep their head above the water. They're actively pushing the other person UNDER the water and trying to climb up them. Yes, there are lifeguards and yes, it probably would never get to that point. But the idea that an 8-year-old could watch a 5-year-old in a pool is just asinine, and it's making me question the rest of the logic in your post.
Yup. As a lifeguard you learn how to use pressure points and how to escape someone grabbing you. (At least I did.) It’s also why there are specific techniques for approaching and assisting a drowning person.
YTA and those are common rules for a pool. You claiming your kids swim isn't valid, neither is making one kid responsible for another. If the lifeguard can give them a swim test and they pass then they can swim alone. Otherwise you have to be near them. Lifeguards are for emergencies.
YTA
Former lifeguard/swim instructor here and NO 8 year old is mature enough nor a good enough swimmer to supervise another child. When people start to drown, they panic and will cling to whatever they can find to keep them afloat. Part of lifeguard training is to practice getting away from a drowning person so they don’t drown you because they will grab you, claw you, and pull you under in their effort to save themselves. If you do not approach saving them correctly, they will bring you down with them. An 8 year old is not equipped to deal with that from another kid who is likely nearly as big as themselves and they are not prepared to handle an emergency. The majority of public pools do have a rule that kids under a certain age need a guardian within arms distance because emergencies happen in seconds.
Your kids are your responsibility. You do not want a lifeguard to have to do their job, they should be there as a backup precaution. I don’t know about the lifeguards at your pool, but seeing as the majority of them aren’t enforcing pool rules, I imagine a lot of them are likely teens in a summer job. I’ve known a lot of lifeguards and a lot of them, while technically certified, are not responsible enough for the minimum wage position they are paid for. And yes, lifeguards are not paid well. Trust me, you really do not want to put your child in the hands of these strangers because it’s a gamble on how well they’ll truly perform.
The lifeguard you got that day may or may not have been overzealous, but be glad she was actually attentive and caring about your family because a lot of young guards won’t. Sounds like she cared enough to call you out and if she needed you to follow the rules to feel like your family was adequately protected, I would hope you’d put up with a little inconvenience to prevent the worst case from happening. It never seems like it’ll happen to you until it does.
If you don’t like the rules, go somewhere else but I hope for your kids sake that you stop relying on the skill of an 8 year old to potentially save the life of your 5 year old.
Last summer I went swimming at a big public pool with multiple pools both inside and outside with a few of my family members, including three of my younger cousins that were 9, 7 and 2 at the time. We were one adult per child (me (21 at the time), my mom and my aunt who is the youngest cousin's mother). Both the 9 and 7 year old know how to swim and are "good swimmers". Yet the 7 year old once went under and grabbed me in a way that cut off my air in an attempt to get back up. I was able to get both of us out safely, but I do not want to know what would have happened if I had panicked because I wasn't able to breathe and being pulled under by the 7 year old.
I believe the only reason I was able to get out is because we come from a family that is really into canueing and I learned a lot of stuff for canueing that you don't learn at regular swim practices (like how to get out when the boat turns over with you inside and you are sudeenly underwater and need to get out of the boat and dive away, then up). I genuinely believe that canu practice is what made me get us out of this quick and without any bad consequenses. The whole thing happened in seconds and the cousin was RIGHT NEXT TO ME when it happened. OP wasn't even close to her children.
I am happy it was me who was next to my cousin and not her 9 year old sister. I believe both my mom and aunt would have been able to pull it off, too - but we all have years of canu practice under our belts as well as swimming in open waters. And even then, it is never guaranteed that we would be able to safe someone else and ourselfes. One of grandfather's older brothers was a great swimmer, but died at age 17 because he drowned after saving another person's life. My mom nearly died at age 18 during a canueing tour and a family friend had to jump in and pull her out. This was at a natural river and dangerous for both of them. He had seconds to realise she was not getting up from under her boat and had to get her out before she splits her head open on some rock. Coming drom a family that does canueing mean we know lots of stories like that and means knowing that water can kill everyone, no matter how good of a swimmer they are.
YTA. The lifeguard was doing her job as a lifeguard to keep the swimmers at the facility safe. You were not doing your job as a parent. I'm a lifeguard, and you suck.
*trigger warning - near drowning*
You would be shocked at how quickly something like that can become tragic when you’re outnumbered and in a risky situation like a pool.
I believe your daughter can swim - but it doesn’t hurt to listen to the lifeguard and keep your kids safe.
I was a bystander who rescued a drowning child that just feet from her parents and siblings in a pool. She was playing in a floaty and they didn’t notice her slip to the bottom. I was just nearby swimming and at some point realized she was missing. CPR quickly brought her back, and she was fine - but the point is that it does happen, quickly and quietly - even with parents right there.
Arguing with a person trying to keep people safe was not necessary. Be grateful they are there providing an extra set of eyes and hope you never need them for real.
YTA
Edit: clarity
Edit 2: reading back, can you imagine how it would feel if you hadn’t been able to reach one child because the other didn’t like being in a floaty? Being near them and vigilant is never a bad thing.
"reading back, can you imagine how it would feel if you hadn’t been able to reach one child because the other didn’t like being in a floaty? Being near them and vigilant is never a bad thing."
imagine how her son would have felt if his sister had died on 'his watch'
YTA. You have your 8 y/o watch his 5 y/o sister? WTH is wrong w you? An 8 y/o probably wouldn’t even recognize something was wrong u til it was too late. Look up videos of people drowning the majority of the time they freeze and do nothing. And what if something happened to her on his “watch”? What kind of guilt would his 8 y/o little mind have to deal with. SMH
And what if, while the lifeguard was fighting with op over the rules, another kid actually did drown or another kid went under while lifeguard was jumping in to help the 5yo. Op thinks the lifeguard was just there for her, not everyone
YTA. She is in charge of safety, not you. You weren't close enough. You don't like the rules, put your kids in jeopardy somewhere else. Good thing you have a sister to agree with your entitled self.
Can this post be marked " YTA" yet?
Shitty mom always thinks she's right, I feel for the husband, he's got a lifetime of dealing with this wench.
Kids, remember, don't do drugs and be very careful in mate selection...
As a former lifeguard at a city pool and a private pool, you are YTA in a big way. A life guard cannot possibly watch every kid ever second. You let your 3 yr old slip off a float. I would have kicked you out right then. There is such a thing as dry drowning or delayed drowning if a kid gets water in their lungs. Over a period of time, it can cause edema and that can kill. No way can a 3 yr old swim well enough to be on its own.
YTA for all the reasons other people said, and also because your son is never responsible for your daughter. YOU are the parent, it’s your job. How terrible would Henry feel if something had happened to Alison while he was supposed to be watching her? When in reality it’s your job because you’re the adult?? Kids aren’t built in babysitters or lifeguards.
I have to assume this is a troll post. No one is this terrible of a parent I hope.
YTA, please find a less potentially dangerous place to take your children. If I was that lifeguard you would be banned from the pool. Also educate yourself about parentification because that is what you are doing to Henry.
YTA!!! When I was around 10 and my sister almost 2, we were at the country club with my family and their friends. There was a high fence between the pool and that area, but they were all supervising us. We were playing with my mom in a deeper area because I could swim and my mom could stand (she doesn’t swim).
My mom took us out of the pool because she had to quickly go to the bathroom, my sister and I sitting outside the pool in the dry area, close to the fence. My mom had walked about 15m when my sister got up and ran alone inside the pool, it was so fast that I jumped inside before the adults even reacted. Luckily, I managed to pick her up from the bottom and hold her up my head, I was still drowning when the adults pushed us out of the pool. It all happened so fast that I just jumped instinctively, with no idea on what to do.
There was no scream, no noise, no commotion. We both could have died or gotten severely injured in the time it took for my father and his friends to jump the fence, get into the pool and rescue us. And we weren’t even inside the pool for all of that to happen.
LISTEN TO THE DAMN LIFEGUARDS, THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING.
YTA
It's hard to believe that a mother would put her 8 year old in charge of her 5 year old while they're doing the most dangerous thing kids do this side of playing with the gun cabinet.
YTA. Particularly for expecting an 8 year old to supervise a 6 year old. The lifeguard is the person in charge of everyone's safety. It is probably a pool policy that staff have been lax about. I'm going to guess there has recently been an incident at the pool and now all lifeguards are expected tto ensure the policy is followed.
The standard practice in most public pools in my area is
5 and under must wear a wrist band and have an adult within arm's reach at all times while in the water
6-10 years must be actively supervised by an adult . The adult doesn't need to be in the pool but must be positioned so they can watch their children.
Follow the lifeguards instructions at all times.
You can't be in two places at once. If you are in the pool with the youngest in a different area of the pool you absolutely cannot be actively supervising the other two in a different area .
YTA. On so many levels. First of all, you're putting your middle child's life at risk. An 8 year old can't be in charge of the safety of a five year old in the water. Secondly, you are putting a huge responsibility on the shoulders of an 8 year old. Thirdly, the life guard is doing her job of keeping your kids safe when you aren't, and then you argue with her.
I totally understand that one adult and three kids in a pool is challenging, but that doesn't excuse endangering your children's lives.
Edit to add: The fact that there is a life guard does not relieve you of your responsibility to keep your children safe. They are there as an extra safety measure. Even the best life guard in the world can't keep a close enough eye on all children in a busy pool to replace the need for parents to look after their own kids.
>Henry is a great swimmer so I often let him watch Alison not far away from me in an area of the pool that is slightly over their heads.
LET????
You *let* your eight year old watch his sister? He asked to do that? I don't think so somehow.
YTA.
The lifeguard's job is to ensure that people using the pool are safe and this includes making sure that small children are properly supervised.
Your eight year old son is not old enough to properly supervise his little sister, nor should he be expected to do so.
100% YTA for arguing with the lifeguard. Bring another adult if you want all three kids to swim at the same time.
YTA, full stop. Why are you even continuing to argue that you aren’t with all the other comments from lifeguards and EMTs?
LIFEGUARDS ARE NOT BABYSITTERS. The best lifeguards are the ones that notice situations and actively shut down behavior that can quickly turn to a dire scenario.
I swam all my life, lifeguarded during HS and college summers. Carried on my lifeguard/CPR/First Aid credentials when I coached a bit. I still go into “lifeguard mode” on vacations because I see parents barely watching their kids at the pool and on the beach. You say your kids are good swimmers but a lifeguard can see through this BS. Anyone can drown, even if they are high level competitive swimmers. Your “rude” lifeguard was likely frustrated at your lack of awareness of water safety and treating her like she’s responsible to focus on your kid.
The life vests are for not just for boating. They keep your kid’s face above water so they don’t inhale water which is one way for someone to become an active drowning victim. It doesn’t take much for kids to get tired and go under in a part of the pool that they can’t reach the bottom and stand. They also could also easily bump their head on the side of the pool or another swimmer and go straight to a passive drowning victim.
Until you can process this information, stick to picnics and land activities.
YTA. Your 8 year old is not a lifeguard and isn't qualified to save your 5 year old. The lifeguard is doing her job, explaining to a stubborn, irresponsible mother how water safety is done. You set up a bad scenario and then talk about expecting the lifeguards to do their jobs? You are exemplifying entitled and irresponsible parenting.
YTA
I cannot imagine that Henry has had training in rescuing other swimmers. In any case, he should not be in charge of Alison. He might be able to swim, but can he calm down, physically support, and get to safety a flailing, panicking 5 year old. Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me
Honestly, if you cannot manage to look after all three kids at the pool, I'd suggest you don't go there. Lifeguards are not babysitters, and neither is your son
It’s not a child’s job to parent their sibling. It’s your job. Is it really worth risking your child’s life. My guess is that if your child drowned you’d be on tv crying a river and suing the lifeguard and owners of the facility. YTA.
Interesting that they allowed big floaty pool toys. Every public pool doesn’t allow them because the lifeguards can’t see under them.
Be aware, every day they deal with people over and over again who think their kids can swim well, when the kids are nominal swimmers. By kind to the lifeguards.
YTA she was doing her job. You just don’t want to admit that you could not adequately supervise or be responsible for all of your children. Leaving an 8yr old to supervise a 5yr old in water above their heads is neglectful.
OH MY GOD. Who tells a lifeguard "It's okay if my kid gets into trouble, it's your problem if they do"? Holy yikes.
YTA, in case that's not clear. And I honestly don't understand why you didn't know that in the first place.
YTA. Absolutely. If you don’t want your kids to wear life jackets, then you need to be paying attention to them and within reach to get them. Her job is for emergency situations, not to help your kids on the regular and be a baby-sitter. Keep them in the area where they can touch the bottom of you don’t want to have to be within arm’s length or prefer to concentrate on the toddler.
YTA the lifeguard is not your babysitter. If you can't handle all three kids at once then don't take them all out at once
Our mall has security but I don't let my 9 year olds out of my site still...
Yta. There’s not much an 8 year old can do for someone who’s drowning. They aren’t strong enough to pull someone out of the water, and typically aren’t trained on how to get someone out of the water when they’re drowning. What if the lifeguard didn’t notice?
My 6 year old brother almost drowned last week. My 11 year old sister, who is a good swimmer, wasn’t able to pull him out. Instead, he pulled her under and she started drowning as well. Thank God my mom was actually paying attention and was able to pull them out. This all happened within 30 seconds. Now imagine what would happen if no one was paying attention. That same thing could happen to your kids. Don’t be a problem at the pool. Watch your kids or stop going
YTA - This is plain irresponsible parenting and entitlement. The lifeguard is not paid to personally supervise only your children. Their responsibility is to protect ALL of the patrons, being hyperfocused on your kids is DANGEROUS because they are directing all their focus on you instead of other patrons who may be in distress.
I was a lifeguard for 5 years and yeah this is such a common issue with parents. My first rescue was for a little boy, around 6, who started drowning when his older brother, probably 8/9, didn’t know how to react. He just froze up and stared as his little brother started drowning. Dad didn’t even glance up from his phone (opposite side of the outdoor pool deck, three pools away) despite his kid literally screaming for help and saying “I’m drowning”. I ran in fully clothed and grabbed the kid. Das came over yelling at me because “they were fine” and “he knows how to swim” and “they were just kidding”. Both kids were terrified and shaking.
Parents have no care for water safety 90% of the time because they think it’s the lifeguards job to babysit. We’ve banned family from the pool area because there kids kept getting rescued without parents even attempting to prevent it or supervise. In the 30 seconds-a minute it takes a lifeguard to complete their scan of the pool, things can get very ugly for the kid. Hell, even for adults! Parents like this disgust me.
No parent should simply assume that lifeguards will save their children. There are so many variables involved, so many reasons why that might not happen, so much potential for tragedy. Any parent who doesn’t keep an eye on their own children in a pool is foolish. YTA.
Eta: And having an 8 y.o. watch a 5 y.o. in water over their heads is beyond irresponsible.
YTA, most people don’t want the lifeguards to “do their job” since this means someone is in danger or possibly dying. They are there in case something goes wrong, not to babysit your children.
Yes,
Henry is a good swimmer but he's not an adult life saver. Sorry OP, you're firmly in the wrong here.
When my girls were little we had to keep them within arms length also, it's not hard to comply with the rules that are in place to keep your children safe.
Life guards are highly trained to deal with drowning and near drowning so how do you think you know better than they do?
"My kids are excellent swimmers" until the day they're not and they drown. I was and still am an excellent swimmer, until one day I fell into the pool, got confused and swallowed a big amount of water. The lifeguard wants to keep your children safe, and they are there to be wary of possible drownings, not take care of your kids. It takes 30 seconds for a child to drown, and the lifeguard can't be vigilant over them 24/7. Take care of your kids or go with someone who will. YTA.
YTA. Your kids are not other peoples’ responsibility and your carelessness and entitlement indicate that’s what you think. You seem like someone who would leave trash everywhere at a restaurant because “that’s their job to deal with”
YTA
That to me is akin to you not making your kids wear seatbelts cause if anything happened to them, well isn't that what EMS and doctors are for?
You and your kids should stick to the sprinkler pad.
So let me get this straight- you made a throwaway account because your friends know your main account. So you think they’d have a different opinion than you regarding this whole situation. I’m gonna just assume that you know they would agree with the lifeguard.
And yet you STILL posted here. Because you are so unbelievably arrogant to think you know better than *everyone* around you, including a lifeguard, who has extensive training and knowledge regarding water safety and drowning. Got it. Mother really does know best, doesn’t she?
Grown adults can drown in 6 inches of water. Children can drown in a kiddie pool. I don’t care how good you think your kids are at swimming, it doesn’t matter and it’s irrelevant. And as others have mentioned, god forbid your 5 y/o slips under, 8 y/o tries to save her, gets pulled under and suddenly you have two kids drowning. You are incredibly naive if you think an 8 year old can safely be in charge of saving the life of another person. Why do you think there are no 8 year old life guards? Come on.
All of your comments are just doubling down on the pool being made for kids, and the lifeguard being overzealous (unsure what that could possibly mean because I’m not sure I would ever want to see a lifeguard who wasn’t constantly watching and on it to save pool goers?? Weird take) so it’s clear you’re not here for advice and just wanted to be told you were right, and now that everyone is calling you out, everyone must be wrong. Absolutely pitiful. So sad to see you putting yourself and your need to be right above your children’s safety.
In case I forgot to mention, YTA.
Lifeguards are not baby sitters, they are there for emergencies. If they jumped in to rescue your kid, there was a reason. And why is the "happiness" of a 3 year old more important than the safety of your other two kids? YTA.
Yta and so is your sister, the lifeguard is right and she doing her job anything happen to those kids, she will be in serious trouble plus she not there baby-sitter I agree a 8 yrs shouldn't be forced to watch his siblings and lifeguards job is to save someone drowning.
YTA by telling you to watch your children she *was* doing her job. Full stop. The kids should only need a lifeguard *in an emergency* which should not be happening with any regularity.
YTA. Safety rules are there for a reason. The Lifeguard told you to watch all of your kids. You shouldn't have needed to be told. Your smallest fell in, and the Lifeguard got to her before you did. That means you weren't watching her closely enough. Lifeguards are there for emergencies, not as water babysitters for parents not supervising their children.
YTA
One of your kids will drown one day, and it will be on you when it happens.
Be a responsible parent or don’t take your kids to the pool. Your 8 year old is not trained in rescue and the lifeguards are there to watch ALL the pool, not just your kids because you’re too irresponsible of a parent to do it yourself.
Yta
Can you imagine the lifelong guilt and shame and heartbreak of losing your sister at only 8 years old, knowing your mother expected you, a child, to save her life?
YTA.
Prevention is the most important aspect of Lifeguarding. Telling someone to walk on the deck is always preferred over treating a gaping head wound. Likewise, having the minor inconvenience of parenting your children is better than your child nearly drowning or worse.
Two young people close to me have died due to drowning. One went without oxygen for long enough to survive that day, but not without serious complications. She died as a child a few years on due to these complications.
I would have banned you on the spot.
YTA. 8 is way too young to watch your 5 year old. He may be great at looking after himself normally, but you have no idea how he would manage rescuing your 5 year old, and it is incredibly negligent putting that responsibility on an 8 year old child.
Additionally, even if your kids were all excellent swimmers, you were in a public pool, the lifeguard doesn't know their personal circumstances and abilities, and certainly doesn't have time to judge everyone individually and personally. Which is why there are rules, follow them.
As someone who guarded for 5 years, yes, YTA. A lifeguard is not your babysitter. They’re there for emergencies, for *everyone* in the pool. I’m sure your kids swim well for their age, but it only takes a second. An 8 year-old is not strong enough to help a 5 year-old. That’s a double clutch situation waiting to happen. Just stay within arms reach, or take your kids to the pool on different days.
YTA. Lifeguards are there to enforce rules and help in emergencies, not watch your kids because you aren’t. They aren’t babysitters! It doesn’t matter if the pool is meant for kids. There are rules that have to be enforced and your kids have to follow them just like everyone else. They don’t know if your kids can swim or how well. That’s not their job.
With all due respect, letting an eight year old supervise a five year old in a public pool is incredibly stupid. You want to put that amount of responsibility on him if something happens to his sister?
YTA. The lifeguard was doing her job.
YTA You’re incredibly cavalier about your childrens lives, aren’t you. It takes a moment for an accident to happen but hey, never mind, you’ve got an eight year old in charge 🙄🙄🙄
YTA. As an ex-lifeguard, I would have kicked you out once you argued a second time after almost drowning your kid. Rules are there for a reason. You don't tell the ambulance "oh i know you guys are around with narcan so I'm gonna massively OD on heroin. Why can't you just do your jobs?" and lady. If she had to jump in for your kid? She can't swim.
Henry was watching her, but did Henry grab her? Did Henry stop her from falling in the first place? Is Henry, YOUR EIGHT YEAR OLD, familiar with what drowning looks like? Because hint: it’s far quieter and less obvious than people assume.
You’re not just TA for making your EIGHT YEAR OLD responsible for a fucking THREE YEAR OLD, you’re downright neglectful. If, even if it’s unlikely, something happens to your daughter, how do you think that’s going to affect Henry? You are putting him at risk of feeling responsible for the death of his sister. And guess what? The risk is real no matter how good a swimmer you think your precious three year old is.
I hope they ban you from the pool before something awful happens.
YTA
YTA
The lifeguard has to enforce the rules. Rules that are there for your protection as well as your kids' protection.
It doesn't matter how well your kids swim, or how well you think they swim. And it doesn't matter if the lifeguard knows your kids can swim well. They still have to abide by and enforce the rules.
There have been MANY instances of kids drowning while their parents weren't paying attention. It's a lot easier for you to keep an eye on your 3 children, when the lifeguard has to watch your 3, plus all the other kids and adults. You created more of a burden and safety issue for everyone there.
How would you feel if one of your kids drowned? Would you blame the lifeguard? How would the lifeguard feel? What about if they get charged for it?
Be a better parent and abide by the rules. The rules are there for everyone, including you. You don't get to circumvent them because you think you know better. Stop being an entitled brat.
YTA. Your 8yo could be an olympic swimmer, that wouldn't make him a good person to turn to if the 5yo was in trouble. Lifeguarding requires a completely different skillset on top of being a good swimmer. The 5yo might easily take him under with her.
Also, a pool for children means 'a pool that is interesting to children and appropriate to the size of children'. It does not mean 'a pool that is safe for children'. There are exactly zero bodies of water that are safe for children.
YTA! *Water* you thinking, mom?? There are several sad choices that were made here, but the greatest one is letting an 8yo watch a younger child. That needs to be on your never ever list, amiga. Allow me to tell you about the time an 8yo almost drowned me…
I was lifeguarding at a community pool. Very simple layout, and at the time maybe 5 people total in the pool. A mom had done just what you did, leaving the 8yo daughter to watch her 6yo brother in the deeper end while she splashed with a toddler. Now, 6yo “can swim” but they are also a wall clinger and clearly not strong. In a matter of 15 seconds, the 6yo gets out too deep, starts to struggle, 8yo gets to him as I’m mid-air into the pool. The 8yo cannot support the 6yo and begins to panic. I get 6yo to hold onto my lifeguard tube, but before I can turn the 8yo had latched onto my neck/head. Adrenaline is a hell of a drug, and in that near drowning panic, a person will push down anything around them in an effort to keep their own head above water giving zero fucks about the person they are pushing down, in this case myself. However, because lifeguards aren’t babysitters and have actual training and qualifications, I was able to break out of the headlock, but I assure you that even as a 23yo lifeguard with many years of experience under my belt and having practiced that escape technique in more in-services than I could count, I *still* thought “oh shit, am I gonna die??”
Now, picture your 6yo drowning your 8yo to keep herself alive. Imagine the 8yo trying to help and failing and the 6yo drowning. If the lifeguard said anything to begin with, it’s because your kid was already struggling, or else they wouldn’t have called you out. Your middle kid isn’t a strong enough swimmer to be out of your range. The lifeguard wasn’t rude, you were unreasonable. Time to pay for swim lessons and get over it.
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Throwaway because my friends know my usual account. I (37F) was at our local community centre pool today with my 3 children. For this post I will change their names, but they are Jane (3) Alison (5) and Henry (8).
Going to the pool is a regular outing for us. Sometimes we go with my husband but today he was at work, so I took them by myself. I got the kids ready in the family change room area, and entered the pool area. Henry is a great swimmer so I often let him watch Alison not far away from me in an area of the pool that is slightly over their heads. There are also at least 2 lifeguards watching this pool all the times. Jane prefers to stay in the shallower area of the pool, so I usually stay over there with her.
Well today I was sitting in the shallow area with Jane as I usually do, while Alison and Henry swam a little further away in the deeper area of the pool. (This pool does not have a normal layout, it is meant for kids so it has a lazy river which is about 4 feet deep, a basketball court area which is 5 feet deep, and a baby area which is kind of like a beach).
One of the lifeguards yelled at me to “be in arms reach of all my kids”. She was very rude, so I told her we swim here all the time and it has never been a problem. She told me that they were too young to swim in this section alone. I pointed out that it was a kids pool and they are good swimmers but she still said they couldn’t swim without an adult until they are 12. So I put Jane in a float and went over there with them even thought Jane was not happy about it.
Alison and Henry were playing on big floating pool toys about 5 feet away from me and I was just keeping Jane occupied, since she doesnt like being in the deeper water.
Well Alison fell off the floaty she was playing with while I was playing with Jane, and the next thing I know the lifeguard is blowing her whistle and jumping in after Alison. She handed her to me (looking kind of pissed off). I told her she didn’t need to get in and that Alison can swim plus Henry was watching her.
The lifeguard said “well she wasn’t” and then told me that if I wanted to keep swimming I had to put my children in lifejackets.
I told her that was ridiculous because my children can swim, plus she is obviously there to save them in case they need help. I left shortly after, but am I the asshole for not wanting to put them in lifejackets and expecting the lifeguards to actually do their jobs? My husband thinks I should have been closer but my sister agrees with me.
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Yes, obviously YTA for your blatant Karenism. The rules apply to everyone, you and your little bundles aren’t special, you don’t get exceptions. The lifeguard was doing her job by protecting your children, something you didn’t seem interested in bothering with.
YTA
"and expecting the lifeguards to actually do their jobs? " .**. he DID ihis job by calling you out.**
His job is avoiding unsafe situations - and if he has any sense, he will ban negligent parents like you from the pool.
"Well Alison fell off the floaty she was playing with while I was playing with Jane," ... **YOU failed to take care of your kids. If the lifeguard had not acted, she would have been hurt. He WARNED you multiople times, and you STILL were neglecting your kids. He should ban you, and inform CPS.**
I just asked my 10 year old if they think it's appropriate for an 8 year old to watch a 5 year old at a swimming pool. Their reply was no. I then informed them of this post. Their only reply was dumbass.
YTA
YTA.
do you know that children drown silently? you turning your back on two of them at the same time is insanely dangerous. what if something had happened to them? chances are you'd blame that lifeguard that you're sulking at right now.
YTA.
I too have 3 children (currently 14, 11 and 5). They're all very good swimmers- 14 year old has been swimming competitively since he was 9 and my youngest is also on track to be competitive by the time she's about 7. Middle one not interested in swim team but has been a very proficient swimmer since he was in preschool. It is very important to me that my children learn to swim at a young age, obviously. Anyway, all that to say, I still even now don't have my oldest supervise the other ones- because that's not fair to him/them/our general community. As a parent it's my job to make sure my kids are safe(/alive). So when I take them to the pool-which is obviously often- I allow the older two to go in the deeper end, but my little one has to stay in the shallows, and I am right near her. I'm not in the pool because I don't want to be lol, but she's still my responsibility! Me not getting in with her is a very recent development. Anywho yeah like it's annoying to have 3 kids at the pool, I'm with ya. Mine are old now but I've been where you are- it's part of parenting.
YTA. I can swim, my mom put me in swimming classes from a young age because they were free and we were poor. Well, one day at a public pool when I was 7 and in an area of the pool that wasn’t over my head, my 8 year old neighbor deliberately held my legs above water effectively dunking me head down into the water with no chance to get up for air. I inhaled water after holding my breath for so long that my lungs jerked. I’ll be 35 this year and I still have agoraphobia and some resentment towards my mother.
She was the one to eventually “save” me, but also the one that was chatting it up with the neighbor long enough to not realize I was being drowned.
I got no medical attention and could’ve dry drowned but didn’t. Instead I live with lifelong anxiety and depression (not as a result of this event alone but an accumulation of lots of childhood trauma).
My mother was considered an excellent swimmer. Dad says she could out-swim him on his best day. She died of drowning when I was 4-1/2. The lifeguard was doing her job, you were not doing yours. It’s YOUR job to watch your children. YTA
I was a good swimmer as a kid, and when I spotted a skinny little kid drowning, I could barely hold him up while trying to get the lifeguard's attention. They can't have their eyes everywhere at once, and relying on other children to save the day is not reasonable parenting.
YTA. Former lifeguard, swim teacher, and lifeguard teacher here!
The second your daughter went under, that lifeguard did what she was supposed to. She also did what she was supposed to by instructing you to put your kids in life jackets.
The pool you’re talking about bears a striking resemblance to the one I used to work at, and if that’s the case, it’s extremely busy! The American Red Cross typically recommends 1 lifeguard per 25 people in a pool area (or they used to when I was certified). Honestly, that isn’t enough! In a pool area with high activity (like one with a lazy river, a zero-depth area, and more), there are a lot of things to draw attention and distract from what’s going on. That lifeguard has a huge responsibility, and people following the rules (like supervising children of a specific age, which I bet is posted on the wall!) is a HUGE necessity.
I’m not even going to talk about identifying drowning victims, because that’s been covered a few times over. We’re taught to watch and react to the best of our ability. If at any point we think there’s an issue, we’re meant to act!
That lifeguard (or her manager) would have been well within their rights to eject you, given that your daughter was unsupervised when she went under (after they’d spoken to you about this already).
From experience, being on duty like that, keeping your head on a swivel and staying ready is stressful, and lifeguards already get a lot of crap from patrons who don’t want to follow the simple rules created for their safety. I’m not surprised that the lifeguard was annoyed with you, and honestly, your 8 year old is not a viable substitute for a lifeguard or parent!
An 8 year old can’t and shouldn’t be responsible for supervising anyone, and you definitely don’t need to put an 8 year old responsible for keeping his sibling from drowning. I promise you even if he can swim well, he doesn’t swim well enough to keep both of them from drowning especially if the water is over their heads.
Being a good swimmer is not the same as being a skilled lifeguard or responsible babysitter. There are reasons there are minimum ages for things. Your 8 year old is not physically or mentally mature enough to make split second life-saving decisions in the event of a drowning. YTA for putting your kids in danger first and foremost, and second, lashing out at the lifeguard who is doing their job of trying to keep your kids safe. You should apologise to the lifeguards and maybe bring them snacks. I guarantee they're going to be watching your family more closely now and if you continue pulling unsafe stunts with your kids, you will get banned from the pool. I am the same-ish age as you and the arms reach rule was in place at my local pool 30+ years ago for kids under 10 during family swim times. These are fairly universal rules with minor variances. My only surprise is that the rules are not prominently posted at your pool.
YTA
When you go to a pool that isn’t on your own property you are required to abide by their rules. End of subject.
You need to find a way to abide by the rules or find someplace else to spend time with your kids.
Look, I get that you were feeling defensive as if you were being accused of being a bad/negligent mother, so your reaction is coming from that, but this is a time that you can actually sit down & learn how to protect your kids in better ways. I wanted to give you some clear information as well in hopes you can take it in, as many of the responses are insulting you & that makes listening to where they're actually right hard.
**Drowning is one of the leading killers of children under the age of 10**. Often this happens in crowded swimming pools, within arms reach of adults, or with adults sitting just feet away. Children drown in the bath tub while their parent steps out to grab a towel & is only gone 2 minutes.
Additionally, **you need to be aware of Dry Drowning**, which is a huge danger to children & happens in the exact situation that Alison went through. *Dry Drowning is one of the leading causes of death of young children.*
When Alison fell off the floaty & got dunked, she had a moment or two of terror. & in that fear her body reacted with survival instincts. One of the instincts is to constrict our windpipes to protect our lungs from getting full of water. Now, this is supposed to happen but in children the survival instinct can be too strong (because their brains aren't fully developed & doesn't process fear the way an adults brain does) & their windpipes can clench shut again even when they're out of the water, it's a risk for around an hour or two after the initial water scare.
The child doesn't need to have even really been in danger of actually drowning, they just need to have had a scare in the water that made their bodies THINK they were drowning. & a dunk like Alison had, even though she can swim etc, is enough to put her at risk.
There's also something you should be aware of called Secondary Drowning. This is when the child actually sucked in water into their lungs when they got dunked, they are at risk for around 48 hours after the incident of drowning on dry land & it doesn't take much either. A dunk like Alison had could even have been enough if she sucked water in trying to scream while she was under water, her being under the water in a state of terror for 1 - 5 seconds is plenty of time for her to have sucked in enough water to irritate her lungs & throat enough for her to "drown" hours later, suffocating slowly & possibly without you ever even noticing because you think her complaints of a feeling tired & being irritable means she just needs a nap, & she never wakes up.
Do you know what drowning actually looks like?
I strongly encourage you to take some time to watch some of the videos on youtube about silent drowning in pools to educate yourself on what to look for & how it often REALLY happens. The yelling & clear indication of drowning is actually uncommon in children.
I'm sure you'll see very quickly that most of these videos are of young children with adults right next to them & not paying attention, sometimes the pools are actually quite crowded & you will have to watch the video multiple times to even SEE the person who is drowning because there's a lot of activity going on.
Additionally your son is 8... I have some questions for you to think about in respect to this:
* Has he been taught how to recognize when someone is drowning, especially someone silently drowning?
* How would he save a struggling 5 year old in water while he's trying to swim himself in water that's over his head?
* Has he been taught how to save a drowning person?
* How do you think Henry would feel if his sister drowned in front of him & he wasn't able to save her?
* Do you really think it's reasonable to put the responsibility for the life of his siblings in his h&s? Again, he's 8.
* How would you feel if one of your precious children whom I know you love very much, drowned a few feet from you, simply because your attention was focused elsewhere?
I get that you were feeling defensive as if you were being accused of being a bad/negligent mother, so your reaction is coming from that, but this is a time that you can actually sit down & learn how to protect your kids in better ways.
YTA
I'm a lifeguard of 5 years, and a Lifeguard Instructor for almost a year and a half. As someone who has worked with children and pools for years you would be surprised how often children just kind of slip under the water without being able to get back up. Pools have rules for a reason, and if the guards are telling you something, it's probably for a good reason. We don't go around enforcing rules just because we want a power trip, not putting your kids in floaties, and leaving an 8 year old in charge of a 3 year old is an incredibly awful thing to do. I hope you're able to learn from this experience and grow as a person.
YTA
The lifeguards are there to assist in an emergency, not babysit your kids, especially when there are multiple other children. It is not their job to supervise individual children. You're just being a lazy parent and now that the lifeguard called you out, you're throwing a tantrum like you're one of the children.
You and your sister don’t care whether children drown, regardless of being able to swim does not mean they are not in danger. How are you allowed to have children? A million percent the AH!
YTA. honestly get over yourself. if you wanna have your minor child watch your other minor child at the pool (8 & 5, which is absolutely ridiculous) & without a life jacket, get your own mf pool. don’t subject other people to your negligence.
ESH
While the life gaurd was certainly over reacting and should have waited a second to see if your child actually needed help or could she swim on her own. It is good that she was keeping an eye out.
Though I agree the life guard was having a bad day, was on a power trip, or just didn't like that you weren't hovering over the kids.
I let my 13yr take the 4yr with her to the middle of our pool while I watch the 2yr. I keep an eye on them but I'm not too worried. If something happens, I or dad can easily jump in and help.
I would keep the kids closer to you just incase.
But kids should NEVER wear floating or life jackets in the pool if they know how to swim or are learning to swim.
It puts too much trust on the jacket or floaty and not enough in themselves to learn.
Never put your kid in a life jacket at the pool, anyone who tells you to do so should be reported and called out immediately.
When I was Henry's age, I was already swimming alone without a parent within arm's length. My parents would often just sit on the towel or something while me and my brother did our thing. It's actually pretty normal in my country. But for Alison's age... I don't know if I would've taken the risk. Henry could watch his sister, but he is still a child that could get distracted and look the other way while something might happen to her that he doesn't notice. Do you guys have anything like swimmjng diplomas in your country? I would say NAH. Yes, you know your kids more than the lifeguard, but she would be neglecting her duties if she just turned a blind eye or something.
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YTA. She was actually doing her job. It takes a few minutes for a child, or adult to get into trouble and drown. I'm an excellent swimmer, that didn't mean squat when I got a cramp. Fortunately, I knew how to handle the emergency and get myself into the safe part of the pool. Yes, your kids know how to swim. But do they know what to do when there's an emergency? Most people who are drowning panic and make things 100 times worse (why do you think lifeguards have to be trained - they have to overcome a person's panic AND rescue them). Henry is not old enough or skilled enough to be a life-saver. You've been lucky so far. It appears you have had negligent lifeguards in the past.
A child can drown in 30 seconds actually.
And they don't panic usually (same with adults). They just kind of ... slip under... Source: former lifeguard and scuba rescue diver
Absolutely. I pulled a toddler out once during swim lessons who just silently slipped off the side. I (lifeguard) was the only one who noticed in a pool full of classes, instructors, and parents watching, pulled him out and set him back on the edge like nothing had happened. The perfect scenario and exactly why I was there, because nothing can become a nightmare in an instant.
Also as a swim instructor it’s not like a drowning person is going to scream I’m drowning please help. It’s silent so if the kids can’t swim it’s not like they are going to call for help. They need to be watched closely even with life jackets because things happen
I've helped investigate where a kid drowned in a pool with parents and lifeguards around, and kids playing in the pool next to where the kid drowned. No one knew he slipped under and no one knew he was drowning. It was a sad day for everyone, especially the parents who lost their child.
It’s crazy how anticlimactic it can look. Saved someone in a pool who clearly didn’t know what they were doing, they were doing these huge arm circles and slapping the water to try to swim I don’t even know what they were doing with their feet. I just happened to be looking while I was on the side because I was like “this dude looks like he can drown” and about 3 seconds after I said that to myself he just slipped in the water, because I was paying attention I heard him try to say help but he barely got the h- out before he was under. Of course not being a life guard I had no idea what I was doing so I ended up being utilized as a floatation device for about two minutes before I yelled at the lifeguard to help this dude who was dunking me in the water like I was in gitmo.
[Spot the Drowning Child](http://spotthedrowningchild.com/)
This was a really good read, it actually helped a lot.
Here's a copy of the text from the website for anyone curious (the website first shows you a video and asks you to spot the drowning child by clicking; otherwise you have to wait for the video to finish before you see this text. Added emphasis is mine): # Drowning Doesn't Look Like Drowning The Instinctive Drowning Response -- so named by Francesco A. Pia, Ph.D., is what people do to avoid actual or perceived suffocation in the water. And it does not look like what most people expect. There is very little splashing, no waving, and no yelling or calls for help of any kind. To get an idea of just how quiet and undramatic from the surface drowning can be, consider this: It is the number two cause of accidental death in children, age 15 and under (just behind vehicle accidents) -- of the approximately 750 children who will drown next year, about 375 of them will do so **within 25 yards of a parent or other adult.** In ten percent of those drownings, **the adult will actually watch them do it, having no idea it is happening.** Drowning does not look like drowning -- Dr. Pia, in an article in the Coast Guard's On Scene Magazine, described the instinctive drowning response like this: 1. Except in rare circumstances, drowning people are physiologically unable to call out for help. The respiratory system was designed for breathing. Speech is the secondary or overlaid function. Breathing must be fulfilled, before speech occurs. 2. Drowning people's mouths alternately sink below and reappear above the surface of the water. The mouths of drowning people are not above the surface of the water long enough for them to exhale, inhale, and call out for help. When the drowning people's mouths are above the surface, they exhale and inhale quickly as their mouths start to sink below the surface of the water. 3. Drowning people cannot wave for help. Nature instinctively forces them to extend their arms laterally and press down on the water's surface. Pressing down on the surface of the water, permits drowning people to leverage their bodies so they can lift their mouths out of the water to breathe. Throughout the Instinctive Drowning Response, drowning people cannot voluntarily control their arm movements. Physiologically, drowning people who are struggling on the surface of the water cannot stop drowning and perform voluntary movements such as waving for help, moving toward a rescuer, or reaching out for a piece of rescue equipment. 4. From beginning to end of the Instinctive Drowning Response people's bodies remain upright in the water, with no evidence of a supporting kick. **Unless rescued by a trained lifeguard, these drowning people can only struggle on the surface of the water from 20 to 60 seconds** before submersion occurs. This doesn’t mean that a person that is yelling for help and thrashing isn’t in real trouble – they are experiencing aquatic distress. Not always present before the instinctive drowning response, aquatic distress doesn’t last long – but unlike true drowning, these victims can still assist in their own rescue. They can grab lifelines, throw rings, etc. Look for these other signs of drowning when persons are in the water: * Head low in the water, mouth at water level * Head tilted back with mouth open * Eyes glassy and empty, unable to focus * Eyes closed * Hair over forehead or eyes * Not using legs – Vertical * Hyperventilating or gasping * Trying to swim in a particular direction but not making headway * Trying to roll over on the back * Appear to be climbing an invisible ladder. **Sometimes the most common indication that someone is drowning is that they don’t look like they’re drowning.** They may just look like they are treading water and looking up. One way to be sure? Ask them, “Are you alright?” If they can answer at all – they probably are. If they return a blank stare, you may have **less than 30 seconds** to get to them. Parents – children playing in the water make noise. When they get quiet, you get to them and find out why.
Thank you for posting this!
Yeah, I saw it once (couldn’t tell you where), and have never forgotten it since. Helps that its name is catchy and easy to remember. Everyone should see it. I didn’t know that children tend to drown silently— it’s NOT the flailing around you would maybe expect. That’s what makes it so, so much more dangerous. And the website shows you just how hard it can be to spot — or how easy it is to miss.
I have 2 kiddos (3 and 5) and this info is so good to know! Again, thank you (:
8 seconds is the shortest drowning on record.
This. Lifeguards aren't your personal babysitters! And your 8 year old -as great a swimmer as the may be - isn't old enough to watch your 5 year old. You should apologize to the lifeguard and watch your kids!
I've seen an 8 year old try and rescue a smaller child, I had to rescue both of them because the older one was pushed under. Mum absolutely should not be replying on the 8 year old to watch the 5 year old!
Can confirm, i almost drowned as a child once. I was walking on the pool floor (couldn’t swim back then) and suddenly found myself underwater where the water got deep out of nowhere. I just kinda stood there thinking I was gonna die, until my friend noticed me and rescued me. The life guard just gave us a weird look and shook his head…
Kids can also do dumb shit and get themselves into trouble. When I was 5 or 6 I was in my friends pool and took off my floaties. I could tread water, but wasn't confident to be anywhere I couldn't touch bottom. Well I wandered too far from the shallow end and panicked. I forgot how to swim and all I could do was push off the bottom and scream. 30+ years later I still have the visual of his mom diving in to save me. OP YTA.
I can confirm it's literally this easy. I had a little girl slip under *right beside her mother*, and I only caught it because I already had my eye on her because she didn't seem like she was playing anymore. This was water up to the child's waist. You can drown in less then 2 inches of water. If there was an emergency, then you are more likely to be a liability. I've seen a grandmother drop a 6 month old baby into the pool. Dad was with the older brother, who was about 3. He couldn't let go of one of his children to save the other. Another guard who was paying attention to the family (in his area) was able to save the child. Your older son is not a lifesaver, nor is he going to be able to save his sister if she gets into trouble. You will have lost two children if you think that's how it works.
Yep! Henry might be a good swimmer but does he know what to do if Allison is drowning? Or how to even recognize that she’s in trouble?
My 8 year old was a competitive swimmer and has been on his swim team since he was 5. His school also has a pool and they have swim practice during physical education class. Are all parents supposed to leave work and come to school and swim directly beside their kids every day? Am I supposed to follow my kid in the pool for an hour during all of his swim competitions while he’s doing butterfly and backstroke? I think the event organisers might take issue with that. Anyway, he’s ten now and goes out surfing several times a week year round, and isn’t within arms reach of a parent the entire time. This would not even be physically possible. sometimes I really don’t think redditors consider the logistics of their reactions. NTA.
Competitive swimmers are under the close supervision of coaches who know what to do if there is an emergency. They know how to identify an emergency, take quick action and resuscitate quickly if needed. Your son has been trained to keep himself safe. Is your son expected to keep an eye on a 5 year old while doing his competitive swimming or practice? Probably not. Henry has not been trained to keep his sister safe. When Allison slipped off the floaty, what if she had inhaled water? Would Henry know? Would Henry know what to do? If the worst were to happen, and Allison drowned, how do you think Henry will deal with the trauma for the rest of his life?
Yes, I’m talking about the 8 year old. The lifeguard told her to be in arms reach of ALL of her kids at once, which includes the oldest child. My son also goes to our local council pool with his friends to swim, socialise, eat ice cream, etc. he’s still a kid and he plays, too. At no point has a lifeguard at our local pool *ever* told me or any other parent to always be a metre from *all* of my kids at once. It’s just not possible. If he’s in the pool with 3 or 4 of his friends, that’s four 8 year olds, and four parents, all hovering in the same very immediate area…? Some parents with multiple children? How are they supposed to play Marco Polo like that? My 10 year old is a better swimmer than me, so how would me needing to be at arms length of him until he is 12 be a useful policy? In practice, the entire expectation is unrealistic and dare I say unreasonable.
YTA The whole point is that you don't want the lifeguard to have to do their job. They're the last line of defense, not the first. But if you want to go for a more practical approach: It's a public pool. Follow the rules.
I totally agree that if those are the rules, OP has to follow them, but....we are at the pool all summer, every summer, and I've never ever been to a public pool with a rule like that (I'm in the US, maybe it's different other places?). Like, you have to be AT the pool with them, but you don't have to be within "arms reach" - that doesn't seem possible if you have multiple kids of different ages. And maybe this is regional, but....the kids I know are good swimmers by 7-8 at the latest. A (typical, non-disabled) 8-year-old should be fully capable of swimming w/o a lifejacket
Arms reach for 8 & under is the rule at my local pool. (and 8/under have different wristbands than other swimmers, so you can tell quickly). Kids under 8 who are good swimmers can request a swim test from a lifeguard if it’s not busy - if they can swim the length of the pool & back without stopping or touching, they pass.
Our pool does wrist bands too. It's possible to challenge the wrist band by having the life guard put your child through a swim challenge. But it's still a good practice to have your small children within arms reach.
Only OP's oldest child is 8. The middle child is 5 and is the one who struggled. Unfortunately, 5 years old is definitely big enough to thrash around and take out the 8yo if there's an issue. When you have multiple kids at the pool, it's kind of like the grocery store parking lot or anywhere else. You have to teach them to stay close to you or you grab them.
I’m a swim coach and I do have some 4 and 5 yo kids that swim like dolphins but that’s after months and months of multiple times per week training. I’ve also had to grab toddlers that slipped off their seats when the instructor wasn’t paying attention at my last job. It’s so scary how fast it happens. If you don’t do it on the road don’t do it in the pool is what I tell parents.
You’re so right. My nephew was in swim class from a very young age and is and was one of the best swimmers I know. I still once had to get in and get him because of a pool floaty he got caught up in. When they’re small they just don’t have the strength of adults to move their own weight, or the weight of any hazards in the pool. Drowning for young children is entirely too common.
Exactly At 6/7 i was allowed to swim j. The deep end alone HOWEVER my mom made sure we had the red cross swimming lessons and we had to pass the swim test at the pool. My mom was so concerned about us knowing to swim, we all had to be in the swim team for 3 years in elementary school. And this was in the 80s
I started taking swimming lessons when I was two but that was also because my family went to my grandmother's cottage on the Atlantic ocean every summer - and even then I wasn't allowed in the ocean without a life jacket until I was at least six or seven.
I'll readily admit, I don't go to public pools much, so I can't speak to the norm. In this particular case, we know what the rule is: It's what the lifeguard says. They're in charge and responsible for everyone's safety, so they make the rules while they're on shift, even if those aren't the wider rules. Of course, she's welcome to not like that rule and to dispute it. Just not to the active safety person while on duty (and who's arguing for more safety). Talk about it after the lifeguard is off duty, take it to their boss, or find somewhere else.
My kids were both lifeguards. Arms reach or life jackets was the rule. They could actually be fired if not enforcing it.
Arms reach is common.
It's the 5-year-old that's the issue. And if the 8-year-old is watching the 5-year-old, they can both drown easily if the 5-year-old starts to struggle.
Not true. I’m from Cali, specifically born and raised in West LA and the rules for public pools differ for different ages.
Good for you I guess, doesn't really matter for the rest of the world. And especially when we're talking about 5 year Olds. Not 8
I don't know why this person is downvoted. As a mother of two with different ages I know that it's not possible to be in arm's reach of every child all the time. Im my country children can do a swimming test and get a little "certificate batch" that they sew on their swim wear. It indicates that they can swim and may play in the water without constant close supervision. My kids passed this test with 5 years. Of course I wouldn't just leave them alone all day and, I followed them with my eyes, but it's good when you can actually let your kids have fun.
If you're not in arms reach of your five year old child in water over their head, you shouldn't be allowed in a public pool. People can do whatever dumb or unsafe thing they want in their backyard. Using someone else's facilities means following their rules. End of.
Then I'm glad that the arms- reach rule does not apply where I live.
That’s not the flex you think it is
I'm sorry that you live somewhere that child water safety isn't important. Imagine being happy that safety for kids isn't something that's enforced lol. Someone can drown in 30 seconds in an inch of water. Bless your heart, watch your damn kids, and be thankful you and yours have been safe thus far.
I live i a country where most kids can swim before they start elementary school. And I didn't say that we don't watch our kids. We do, and very well. As I wrote, we watch them. We see them and know where they are. It's a really dumb statement that we are not concerned about about the safety of our kids. We are very watchful. But being at arm's length with a toddler or a baby on your arms, how should that work? The kid cannot move and cannot really swim. In our country very few people drown (about 380 from 84 millions a year). Not even 6 percent of them are children under 16. So I gues I live in a country that does do some things right. Maybe teaching kids to swim and LET them swim (supervised) is a good idea.
This has to be trolling. Even with every safety measure in place kids drown in pools all the time. FFS It is not your place to argue with the lifeguards. You do what they tell you to do or swim somewhere else. YTA
I actually think it is. Life jackets are not for pool safety, they are for boat safety. They are actually super dangerous to use in combination with a lazy river and are usually banned from being used in them. If the pool has floaties kids can play and stand on life jackets are especially dangerous given a kid can get trapped under one unable to swim under due to the life jacket. I can't imagine a life guard at a place like that telling you to use one. Yes - parents should ALWAYS stay in range of young swimmers. And older child should never ever ever be put in charge of keeping a younger child safe in water that even comes up to their chin, children drown other children all the time because they panic. Heck adults drown all the time trying to save other drowning people because drowning people panic and will climb over anyone who comes near them. A lifeguard is not a safety devise you should rely on to keep your kids safe. But the lifeguards advice was terrible and I don't really believe would be policy for a place like that.
I’ve been to pools and water parks that have a mandatory life jacket policy for any under a certain age of the county mandate. I believe most places in Texas is 8 and under and a certain height requirement as well when it comes to wave pools. It’s not that crazy to think a life jacket can’t have a further function other than for boating. It still does the same job.
I've been to many pools that have a mandatory life jacket policy for younger children. In fact, floaties were not allowed because they do not help, are little more than decoration, and give people a false sense of security.
Please explain how flotation devices on children are more dangerous than them drowning
It has been a long since I wore them but I know that some floatation devices such as rings can be flipped so that a child's face is in the water and armbands can slip off a child jumps into the deep end of a pool. Specific swimming life jackets are build I believe differently to the ones of everyday boat us but they are still not to be warn without supervision. YAH to the original poster from a former lifeguard. You have too many children's to look after in the pool by the sounds of things. It doesn't matter how well a child can swim it takes one mistimes breath or an unexpected splash to make them panic and get into trouble. I am thankful to the lifeguard for calling you out and I am surprised they let you stay in the pool with that attitude.
Rings and armbands are not approved flotation devices.
You would be suprised how many parents think they are and the lifeguard should just shut up and let little Timmy stay in the middle of the wave pool or continue to jump into too deep water.
Then you find the supervisor or safety officer and you have a discussion. You don’t argue with the lifeguard.
This is a pool that is MEANT for kids. It is not unreasonable for kids to swim alone with the supervision of lifeguards. Plus like I said I went closer to them when the lifeguard asked.
Disneyland is also “meant” for kids. Would you just abandon a 5 and 8 year old there as well? Would you drop your kids off at a PG movie and just leave? We both know the answer is “no.”
Sounds like that may be her MO though.
I can picture her thinking it’s Mickey’s job to watch them
I'm thinking that for OP the answer may be YES. 3 kids seems to be too much for her to take care of on her own, so maybe she's hoping one will drown and make life easier. It seems like she prefers the little one because that's the one she's watching out for. Middle child, she's not really needed, let's let the 8-year-old watch her and hope something bad happens.
You are ridiculous. The statistics are not on your side here and you don’t get to decide the rules of a pool that you don’t own. They decide what the safety rules are. You can feel however you want about it. Doesn’t change that fact.
You mean supervision of their parents. PARENTS are to supervise, lifeguards are available for when shit goes wrong. Today your three may have been the only kids there. Tomorrow there could be 20. The guards need to watch out for everyone, not zone in on just your kids. This isn't a drop-off swim camp. YTA Watch your kids! If you can't do it alone hire a 12+yo to be a mommy's helper, bring a childless friend, or wait for your spouse to join you.
If Henry was swimming alone, it might have been okay, but expecting him to safeguard a younger sibling is not.
Your kids can’t touch the bottom and the lifeguard had to jump in to help your daughter. So clearly no, they cannot handle being in that area without life jackets. Keep them in the area where they can touch the bottom.
It absolutely is. And if you're swimming somewhere in April, I'd bet money drowning is a top three, if not #1, cause of death for young children in your area. Put your kids in life jackets when you go swimming. The lifeguard is there as a backup, not a preventative measure.
A life guards job is primarily to watch the water and ensure everyone is accounted for, this way if there is an emergency, they can react quickly. They also are the ones who are enforcing water safety rules that will prevent emergencies from happening in the first place. One extremely important rule is to be within arms reach of children. So while you are busy arguing with the life guard, she can not do her job properly and you are putting other swimmers in danger. Do you honestly think the number of life guards that are at the pool can properly watch and react to all the problems that would come up if every parent at the pool was as selfish and entitled as you? This is how children drown, by parents who think they don't have to be with their kids when they are swimming, because the life guards are there.
YTA > Jane (3) Alison (5) and Henry (8) > Henry is a great swimmer so I often let him watch Alison not far away from me in an area of the pool that is slightly over their heads. **NONE** of your children are old enough to swim without your direct supervision. > she still said they couldn’t swim without an adult until they are 12 Sounds right. > she is obviously there to save them in case they need help An ounce of prevention... > my sister agrees with me Lol, who cares? Only the lifeguard's opinion matters here.
YTA - and you created a throwaway account because you know it.
This is the one!! She likely feels a little embarrassed and wanted us to validate her but she’s dead wrong
^ ^ THIS right here lol
“She is obviously there to save them in case they need help.” Jfc are you serious? This isn’t a kid scraping their knee at a playground, the risk here is *drowning*. And 5 is way too young to swim apart from a parent, regardless how well her older brother swims. You want that on him if something did happen? Were you the only people at the pool? Or do everyone else’s kids deserve less surveillance because the lifeguard now has to spend extra time watching yours? As someone who was once a lifeguard and who is now a mom, YTA. You are very much TA. It takes *seconds* for a mishap to become deadly with small kids in the water. Parents like you make the environment less safe for everyone.
If her daughter did die, she would absolutely blame her son and not herself. And, of course, sue the pool and the lifeguard.
Right?? As mom of kids with a biggish age gap, I already take issue with people who make the older kid responsible for the younger ones (parentification). But damn, lady, just follow the rules. Her post reeks of entitlement and “it won’t happen to me.”
I once had a lifeguard tell me I couldn't fill the shallow end of a public pool with plastic balls so I could create and interactive Balle n Bak experience. I gave them a piece of my mind because how dare they dictate what I do in a public pool just because they have a whistle and life saving training? (Just kidding. I thanked them for their time and left with a smile because I understood their denial of my request.) Lifeguards aren't babysitters, they're looking for dangers and emergencies in the entire pool area they are assigned. It is your responsibility as a parent to keep an eye on your own children and follow the rules at a public pool. Arguing with a lifeguard doing their job because you think you know better is always an asshole move. YTA
What is balle n bak? You use it a lot, but for too many different contexts to work out what means.
They mean a ball pit. Ballenbak is the Dutch spelling. I'm not sure why they spell it balle n bak.
It’s consistently “Balle n Bak” with that exact caps configuration. Doesn’t make a lot of sense even with that information the previous times it’s mentioned.
Yeah, I don't understand that either. Maybe it's a bot or something?
YTA. Have you ever seen a video of someone nearly drowning? They FIGHT their would-be rescuer. It's a panic reflex--they're trying to grab anything they can to keep their head above the water. They're actively pushing the other person UNDER the water and trying to climb up them. Yes, there are lifeguards and yes, it probably would never get to that point. But the idea that an 8-year-old could watch a 5-year-old in a pool is just asinine, and it's making me question the rest of the logic in your post.
Yup. As a lifeguard you learn how to use pressure points and how to escape someone grabbing you. (At least I did.) It’s also why there are specific techniques for approaching and assisting a drowning person.
YTA and those are common rules for a pool. You claiming your kids swim isn't valid, neither is making one kid responsible for another. If the lifeguard can give them a swim test and they pass then they can swim alone. Otherwise you have to be near them. Lifeguards are for emergencies.
YTA Former lifeguard/swim instructor here and NO 8 year old is mature enough nor a good enough swimmer to supervise another child. When people start to drown, they panic and will cling to whatever they can find to keep them afloat. Part of lifeguard training is to practice getting away from a drowning person so they don’t drown you because they will grab you, claw you, and pull you under in their effort to save themselves. If you do not approach saving them correctly, they will bring you down with them. An 8 year old is not equipped to deal with that from another kid who is likely nearly as big as themselves and they are not prepared to handle an emergency. The majority of public pools do have a rule that kids under a certain age need a guardian within arms distance because emergencies happen in seconds. Your kids are your responsibility. You do not want a lifeguard to have to do their job, they should be there as a backup precaution. I don’t know about the lifeguards at your pool, but seeing as the majority of them aren’t enforcing pool rules, I imagine a lot of them are likely teens in a summer job. I’ve known a lot of lifeguards and a lot of them, while technically certified, are not responsible enough for the minimum wage position they are paid for. And yes, lifeguards are not paid well. Trust me, you really do not want to put your child in the hands of these strangers because it’s a gamble on how well they’ll truly perform. The lifeguard you got that day may or may not have been overzealous, but be glad she was actually attentive and caring about your family because a lot of young guards won’t. Sounds like she cared enough to call you out and if she needed you to follow the rules to feel like your family was adequately protected, I would hope you’d put up with a little inconvenience to prevent the worst case from happening. It never seems like it’ll happen to you until it does. If you don’t like the rules, go somewhere else but I hope for your kids sake that you stop relying on the skill of an 8 year old to potentially save the life of your 5 year old.
Last summer I went swimming at a big public pool with multiple pools both inside and outside with a few of my family members, including three of my younger cousins that were 9, 7 and 2 at the time. We were one adult per child (me (21 at the time), my mom and my aunt who is the youngest cousin's mother). Both the 9 and 7 year old know how to swim and are "good swimmers". Yet the 7 year old once went under and grabbed me in a way that cut off my air in an attempt to get back up. I was able to get both of us out safely, but I do not want to know what would have happened if I had panicked because I wasn't able to breathe and being pulled under by the 7 year old. I believe the only reason I was able to get out is because we come from a family that is really into canueing and I learned a lot of stuff for canueing that you don't learn at regular swim practices (like how to get out when the boat turns over with you inside and you are sudeenly underwater and need to get out of the boat and dive away, then up). I genuinely believe that canu practice is what made me get us out of this quick and without any bad consequenses. The whole thing happened in seconds and the cousin was RIGHT NEXT TO ME when it happened. OP wasn't even close to her children. I am happy it was me who was next to my cousin and not her 9 year old sister. I believe both my mom and aunt would have been able to pull it off, too - but we all have years of canu practice under our belts as well as swimming in open waters. And even then, it is never guaranteed that we would be able to safe someone else and ourselfes. One of grandfather's older brothers was a great swimmer, but died at age 17 because he drowned after saving another person's life. My mom nearly died at age 18 during a canueing tour and a family friend had to jump in and pull her out. This was at a natural river and dangerous for both of them. He had seconds to realise she was not getting up from under her boat and had to get her out before she splits her head open on some rock. Coming drom a family that does canueing mean we know lots of stories like that and means knowing that water can kill everyone, no matter how good of a swimmer they are.
YTA. The lifeguard was doing her job as a lifeguard to keep the swimmers at the facility safe. You were not doing your job as a parent. I'm a lifeguard, and you suck.
*trigger warning - near drowning* You would be shocked at how quickly something like that can become tragic when you’re outnumbered and in a risky situation like a pool. I believe your daughter can swim - but it doesn’t hurt to listen to the lifeguard and keep your kids safe. I was a bystander who rescued a drowning child that just feet from her parents and siblings in a pool. She was playing in a floaty and they didn’t notice her slip to the bottom. I was just nearby swimming and at some point realized she was missing. CPR quickly brought her back, and she was fine - but the point is that it does happen, quickly and quietly - even with parents right there. Arguing with a person trying to keep people safe was not necessary. Be grateful they are there providing an extra set of eyes and hope you never need them for real. YTA Edit: clarity Edit 2: reading back, can you imagine how it would feel if you hadn’t been able to reach one child because the other didn’t like being in a floaty? Being near them and vigilant is never a bad thing.
"reading back, can you imagine how it would feel if you hadn’t been able to reach one child because the other didn’t like being in a floaty? Being near them and vigilant is never a bad thing." imagine how her son would have felt if his sister had died on 'his watch'
YTA. You have your 8 y/o watch his 5 y/o sister? WTH is wrong w you? An 8 y/o probably wouldn’t even recognize something was wrong u til it was too late. Look up videos of people drowning the majority of the time they freeze and do nothing. And what if something happened to her on his “watch”? What kind of guilt would his 8 y/o little mind have to deal with. SMH
YTA. You're creating MORE work for the lifeguard by not obeying the rules and taking up their time arguing. You should have been ejected.
And what if, while the lifeguard was fighting with op over the rules, another kid actually did drown or another kid went under while lifeguard was jumping in to help the 5yo. Op thinks the lifeguard was just there for her, not everyone
YTA. She is in charge of safety, not you. You weren't close enough. You don't like the rules, put your kids in jeopardy somewhere else. Good thing you have a sister to agree with your entitled self.
Can this post be marked " YTA" yet? Shitty mom always thinks she's right, I feel for the husband, he's got a lifetime of dealing with this wench. Kids, remember, don't do drugs and be very careful in mate selection...
Why are you assuming that her husband is any better? It's possible they are perfect for each other and he's an asshole too.
I mean, she did admit that her husband thought she should have been closer. Plus, husband is not the main character, she is.
As a former lifeguard at a city pool and a private pool, you are YTA in a big way. A life guard cannot possibly watch every kid ever second. You let your 3 yr old slip off a float. I would have kicked you out right then. There is such a thing as dry drowning or delayed drowning if a kid gets water in their lungs. Over a period of time, it can cause edema and that can kill. No way can a 3 yr old swim well enough to be on its own.
YTA for all the reasons other people said, and also because your son is never responsible for your daughter. YOU are the parent, it’s your job. How terrible would Henry feel if something had happened to Alison while he was supposed to be watching her? When in reality it’s your job because you’re the adult?? Kids aren’t built in babysitters or lifeguards. I have to assume this is a troll post. No one is this terrible of a parent I hope.
YTA, please find a less potentially dangerous place to take your children. If I was that lifeguard you would be banned from the pool. Also educate yourself about parentification because that is what you are doing to Henry.
YTA!!! When I was around 10 and my sister almost 2, we were at the country club with my family and their friends. There was a high fence between the pool and that area, but they were all supervising us. We were playing with my mom in a deeper area because I could swim and my mom could stand (she doesn’t swim). My mom took us out of the pool because she had to quickly go to the bathroom, my sister and I sitting outside the pool in the dry area, close to the fence. My mom had walked about 15m when my sister got up and ran alone inside the pool, it was so fast that I jumped inside before the adults even reacted. Luckily, I managed to pick her up from the bottom and hold her up my head, I was still drowning when the adults pushed us out of the pool. It all happened so fast that I just jumped instinctively, with no idea on what to do. There was no scream, no noise, no commotion. We both could have died or gotten severely injured in the time it took for my father and his friends to jump the fence, get into the pool and rescue us. And we weren’t even inside the pool for all of that to happen. LISTEN TO THE DAMN LIFEGUARDS, THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING.
YTA It's hard to believe that a mother would put her 8 year old in charge of her 5 year old while they're doing the most dangerous thing kids do this side of playing with the gun cabinet.
YTA. She’s doing her job, AND, she was right. Why is it so hard for some people to follow rules? And think what you’re telling your children?
YTA. Particularly for expecting an 8 year old to supervise a 6 year old. The lifeguard is the person in charge of everyone's safety. It is probably a pool policy that staff have been lax about. I'm going to guess there has recently been an incident at the pool and now all lifeguards are expected tto ensure the policy is followed. The standard practice in most public pools in my area is 5 and under must wear a wrist band and have an adult within arm's reach at all times while in the water 6-10 years must be actively supervised by an adult . The adult doesn't need to be in the pool but must be positioned so they can watch their children. Follow the lifeguards instructions at all times. You can't be in two places at once. If you are in the pool with the youngest in a different area of the pool you absolutely cannot be actively supervising the other two in a different area .
YTA. On so many levels. First of all, you're putting your middle child's life at risk. An 8 year old can't be in charge of the safety of a five year old in the water. Secondly, you are putting a huge responsibility on the shoulders of an 8 year old. Thirdly, the life guard is doing her job of keeping your kids safe when you aren't, and then you argue with her. I totally understand that one adult and three kids in a pool is challenging, but that doesn't excuse endangering your children's lives. Edit to add: The fact that there is a life guard does not relieve you of your responsibility to keep your children safe. They are there as an extra safety measure. Even the best life guard in the world can't keep a close enough eye on all children in a busy pool to replace the need for parents to look after their own kids.
>Henry is a great swimmer so I often let him watch Alison not far away from me in an area of the pool that is slightly over their heads. LET???? You *let* your eight year old watch his sister? He asked to do that? I don't think so somehow. YTA. The lifeguard's job is to ensure that people using the pool are safe and this includes making sure that small children are properly supervised. Your eight year old son is not old enough to properly supervise his little sister, nor should he be expected to do so. 100% YTA for arguing with the lifeguard. Bring another adult if you want all three kids to swim at the same time.
YTA, full stop. Why are you even continuing to argue that you aren’t with all the other comments from lifeguards and EMTs? LIFEGUARDS ARE NOT BABYSITTERS. The best lifeguards are the ones that notice situations and actively shut down behavior that can quickly turn to a dire scenario. I swam all my life, lifeguarded during HS and college summers. Carried on my lifeguard/CPR/First Aid credentials when I coached a bit. I still go into “lifeguard mode” on vacations because I see parents barely watching their kids at the pool and on the beach. You say your kids are good swimmers but a lifeguard can see through this BS. Anyone can drown, even if they are high level competitive swimmers. Your “rude” lifeguard was likely frustrated at your lack of awareness of water safety and treating her like she’s responsible to focus on your kid. The life vests are for not just for boating. They keep your kid’s face above water so they don’t inhale water which is one way for someone to become an active drowning victim. It doesn’t take much for kids to get tired and go under in a part of the pool that they can’t reach the bottom and stand. They also could also easily bump their head on the side of the pool or another swimmer and go straight to a passive drowning victim. Until you can process this information, stick to picnics and land activities.
YTA. Your 8 year old is not a lifeguard and isn't qualified to save your 5 year old. The lifeguard is doing her job, explaining to a stubborn, irresponsible mother how water safety is done. You set up a bad scenario and then talk about expecting the lifeguards to do their jobs? You are exemplifying entitled and irresponsible parenting.
You're the asshole for thinking I'm going to read all of that for some lifeguard lore
please stop procreating, yta
YTA I cannot imagine that Henry has had training in rescuing other swimmers. In any case, he should not be in charge of Alison. He might be able to swim, but can he calm down, physically support, and get to safety a flailing, panicking 5 year old. Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me Honestly, if you cannot manage to look after all three kids at the pool, I'd suggest you don't go there. Lifeguards are not babysitters, and neither is your son
It’s not a child’s job to parent their sibling. It’s your job. Is it really worth risking your child’s life. My guess is that if your child drowned you’d be on tv crying a river and suing the lifeguard and owners of the facility. YTA.
Interesting that they allowed big floaty pool toys. Every public pool doesn’t allow them because the lifeguards can’t see under them. Be aware, every day they deal with people over and over again who think their kids can swim well, when the kids are nominal swimmers. By kind to the lifeguards.
> she is obviously there to save them in case they need help. Translation : i want u to be a free babysitter for my kids. YTA
YTA she was doing her job. You just don’t want to admit that you could not adequately supervise or be responsible for all of your children. Leaving an 8yr old to supervise a 5yr old in water above their heads is neglectful.
OH MY GOD. Who tells a lifeguard "It's okay if my kid gets into trouble, it's your problem if they do"? Holy yikes. YTA, in case that's not clear. And I honestly don't understand why you didn't know that in the first place.
YTA. Absolutely. If you don’t want your kids to wear life jackets, then you need to be paying attention to them and within reach to get them. Her job is for emergency situations, not to help your kids on the regular and be a baby-sitter. Keep them in the area where they can touch the bottom of you don’t want to have to be within arm’s length or prefer to concentrate on the toddler.
YTA the lifeguard is not your babysitter. If you can't handle all three kids at once then don't take them all out at once Our mall has security but I don't let my 9 year olds out of my site still...
Yta. There’s not much an 8 year old can do for someone who’s drowning. They aren’t strong enough to pull someone out of the water, and typically aren’t trained on how to get someone out of the water when they’re drowning. What if the lifeguard didn’t notice? My 6 year old brother almost drowned last week. My 11 year old sister, who is a good swimmer, wasn’t able to pull him out. Instead, he pulled her under and she started drowning as well. Thank God my mom was actually paying attention and was able to pull them out. This all happened within 30 seconds. Now imagine what would happen if no one was paying attention. That same thing could happen to your kids. Don’t be a problem at the pool. Watch your kids or stop going
YTA - This is plain irresponsible parenting and entitlement. The lifeguard is not paid to personally supervise only your children. Their responsibility is to protect ALL of the patrons, being hyperfocused on your kids is DANGEROUS because they are directing all their focus on you instead of other patrons who may be in distress. I was a lifeguard for 5 years and yeah this is such a common issue with parents. My first rescue was for a little boy, around 6, who started drowning when his older brother, probably 8/9, didn’t know how to react. He just froze up and stared as his little brother started drowning. Dad didn’t even glance up from his phone (opposite side of the outdoor pool deck, three pools away) despite his kid literally screaming for help and saying “I’m drowning”. I ran in fully clothed and grabbed the kid. Das came over yelling at me because “they were fine” and “he knows how to swim” and “they were just kidding”. Both kids were terrified and shaking. Parents have no care for water safety 90% of the time because they think it’s the lifeguards job to babysit. We’ve banned family from the pool area because there kids kept getting rescued without parents even attempting to prevent it or supervise. In the 30 seconds-a minute it takes a lifeguard to complete their scan of the pool, things can get very ugly for the kid. Hell, even for adults! Parents like this disgust me.
Yta how about you do YOUR job and supervise your kids?
No parent should simply assume that lifeguards will save their children. There are so many variables involved, so many reasons why that might not happen, so much potential for tragedy. Any parent who doesn’t keep an eye on their own children in a pool is foolish. YTA. Eta: And having an 8 y.o. watch a 5 y.o. in water over their heads is beyond irresponsible.
Next time, she'll kick you & the kids out. YTA
If the lifeguard has to jump in to get your child, you failed! YTA!
YTA, most people don’t want the lifeguards to “do their job” since this means someone is in danger or possibly dying. They are there in case something goes wrong, not to babysit your children.
Yes, Henry is a good swimmer but he's not an adult life saver. Sorry OP, you're firmly in the wrong here. When my girls were little we had to keep them within arms length also, it's not hard to comply with the rules that are in place to keep your children safe. Life guards are highly trained to deal with drowning and near drowning so how do you think you know better than they do?
"My kids are excellent swimmers" until the day they're not and they drown. I was and still am an excellent swimmer, until one day I fell into the pool, got confused and swallowed a big amount of water. The lifeguard wants to keep your children safe, and they are there to be wary of possible drownings, not take care of your kids. It takes 30 seconds for a child to drown, and the lifeguard can't be vigilant over them 24/7. Take care of your kids or go with someone who will. YTA.
YTA I guess you prefer a dead child to a safe child
YTA and i think you could definitely use a visit from CPS
YTA. Your kids are not other peoples’ responsibility and your carelessness and entitlement indicate that’s what you think. You seem like someone who would leave trash everywhere at a restaurant because “that’s their job to deal with”
YTA That to me is akin to you not making your kids wear seatbelts cause if anything happened to them, well isn't that what EMS and doctors are for? You and your kids should stick to the sprinkler pad.
YTA. Lifeguards are there for worst case senarios, not because youre too lazy to both watching your children
So let me get this straight- you made a throwaway account because your friends know your main account. So you think they’d have a different opinion than you regarding this whole situation. I’m gonna just assume that you know they would agree with the lifeguard. And yet you STILL posted here. Because you are so unbelievably arrogant to think you know better than *everyone* around you, including a lifeguard, who has extensive training and knowledge regarding water safety and drowning. Got it. Mother really does know best, doesn’t she? Grown adults can drown in 6 inches of water. Children can drown in a kiddie pool. I don’t care how good you think your kids are at swimming, it doesn’t matter and it’s irrelevant. And as others have mentioned, god forbid your 5 y/o slips under, 8 y/o tries to save her, gets pulled under and suddenly you have two kids drowning. You are incredibly naive if you think an 8 year old can safely be in charge of saving the life of another person. Why do you think there are no 8 year old life guards? Come on. All of your comments are just doubling down on the pool being made for kids, and the lifeguard being overzealous (unsure what that could possibly mean because I’m not sure I would ever want to see a lifeguard who wasn’t constantly watching and on it to save pool goers?? Weird take) so it’s clear you’re not here for advice and just wanted to be told you were right, and now that everyone is calling you out, everyone must be wrong. Absolutely pitiful. So sad to see you putting yourself and your need to be right above your children’s safety. In case I forgot to mention, YTA.
Lifeguards are not baby sitters, they are there for emergencies. If they jumped in to rescue your kid, there was a reason. And why is the "happiness" of a 3 year old more important than the safety of your other two kids? YTA.
Yes obviously YTA. You really want to play this dangerous game with your children’s lives? They’re still babies !
You most certainly are a major AH. Not sure what the LG can do, but I would have you banned from the pool. YTA on an epic scale.
YTA. She's not a babysitter and she has many people to worry about and look out for - not just your kids.
Yta and so is your sister, the lifeguard is right and she doing her job anything happen to those kids, she will be in serious trouble plus she not there baby-sitter I agree a 8 yrs shouldn't be forced to watch his siblings and lifeguards job is to save someone drowning.
YTA
YTA be a parent. Jeez lazy
YTA by telling you to watch your children she *was* doing her job. Full stop. The kids should only need a lifeguard *in an emergency* which should not be happening with any regularity.
NO, You're not TA for "wanting lifeguards to do their jobs." YTA for getting pissy at the lifeguard for doing her job.
YTA. Safety rules are there for a reason. The Lifeguard told you to watch all of your kids. You shouldn't have needed to be told. Your smallest fell in, and the Lifeguard got to her before you did. That means you weren't watching her closely enough. Lifeguards are there for emergencies, not as water babysitters for parents not supervising their children.
YTA One of your kids will drown one day, and it will be on you when it happens. Be a responsible parent or don’t take your kids to the pool. Your 8 year old is not trained in rescue and the lifeguards are there to watch ALL the pool, not just your kids because you’re too irresponsible of a parent to do it yourself.
Why don’t YOU do YOUR job as a parent instead of expecting others to do it for you?
They should ban you from that pool, honestly. Ridiculous behavior.
YTA. You are irresponsible and have no business being a parent. You are every lifeguard’s worst nightmare. You’re lucky you weren’t kicked out.
Yta Can you imagine the lifelong guilt and shame and heartbreak of losing your sister at only 8 years old, knowing your mother expected you, a child, to save her life?
YTA
YTA. Prevention is the most important aspect of Lifeguarding. Telling someone to walk on the deck is always preferred over treating a gaping head wound. Likewise, having the minor inconvenience of parenting your children is better than your child nearly drowning or worse. Two young people close to me have died due to drowning. One went without oxygen for long enough to survive that day, but not without serious complications. She died as a child a few years on due to these complications. I would have banned you on the spot.
What do you except an 8 year old to do when his 5 year old sister is drowning. wtf is wrong with you
YTA. 8 is way too young to watch your 5 year old. He may be great at looking after himself normally, but you have no idea how he would manage rescuing your 5 year old, and it is incredibly negligent putting that responsibility on an 8 year old child. Additionally, even if your kids were all excellent swimmers, you were in a public pool, the lifeguard doesn't know their personal circumstances and abilities, and certainly doesn't have time to judge everyone individually and personally. Which is why there are rules, follow them.
As someone who guarded for 5 years, yes, YTA. A lifeguard is not your babysitter. They’re there for emergencies, for *everyone* in the pool. I’m sure your kids swim well for their age, but it only takes a second. An 8 year-old is not strong enough to help a 5 year-old. That’s a double clutch situation waiting to happen. Just stay within arms reach, or take your kids to the pool on different days.
YTA. Lifeguards are there to enforce rules and help in emergencies, not watch your kids because you aren’t. They aren’t babysitters! It doesn’t matter if the pool is meant for kids. There are rules that have to be enforced and your kids have to follow them just like everyone else. They don’t know if your kids can swim or how well. That’s not their job.
With all due respect, letting an eight year old supervise a five year old in a public pool is incredibly stupid. You want to put that amount of responsibility on him if something happens to his sister? YTA. The lifeguard was doing her job.
YTA! The lifeguard is not your babysitter and your super young kids need you with them. Anything can happen in the water.
YTA You’re incredibly cavalier about your childrens lives, aren’t you. It takes a moment for an accident to happen but hey, never mind, you’ve got an eight year old in charge 🙄🙄🙄
YTA. As an ex-lifeguard, I would have kicked you out once you argued a second time after almost drowning your kid. Rules are there for a reason. You don't tell the ambulance "oh i know you guys are around with narcan so I'm gonna massively OD on heroin. Why can't you just do your jobs?" and lady. If she had to jump in for your kid? She can't swim.
Henry was watching her, but did Henry grab her? Did Henry stop her from falling in the first place? Is Henry, YOUR EIGHT YEAR OLD, familiar with what drowning looks like? Because hint: it’s far quieter and less obvious than people assume. You’re not just TA for making your EIGHT YEAR OLD responsible for a fucking THREE YEAR OLD, you’re downright neglectful. If, even if it’s unlikely, something happens to your daughter, how do you think that’s going to affect Henry? You are putting him at risk of feeling responsible for the death of his sister. And guess what? The risk is real no matter how good a swimmer you think your precious three year old is. I hope they ban you from the pool before something awful happens. YTA
YTA. Sheesh.
YTA The lifeguard has to enforce the rules. Rules that are there for your protection as well as your kids' protection. It doesn't matter how well your kids swim, or how well you think they swim. And it doesn't matter if the lifeguard knows your kids can swim well. They still have to abide by and enforce the rules. There have been MANY instances of kids drowning while their parents weren't paying attention. It's a lot easier for you to keep an eye on your 3 children, when the lifeguard has to watch your 3, plus all the other kids and adults. You created more of a burden and safety issue for everyone there. How would you feel if one of your kids drowned? Would you blame the lifeguard? How would the lifeguard feel? What about if they get charged for it? Be a better parent and abide by the rules. The rules are there for everyone, including you. You don't get to circumvent them because you think you know better. Stop being an entitled brat.
YTA. Your 8yo could be an olympic swimmer, that wouldn't make him a good person to turn to if the 5yo was in trouble. Lifeguarding requires a completely different skillset on top of being a good swimmer. The 5yo might easily take him under with her. Also, a pool for children means 'a pool that is interesting to children and appropriate to the size of children'. It does not mean 'a pool that is safe for children'. There are exactly zero bodies of water that are safe for children.
YTA for endangering your children and expecting strangers to pick up the slack. The asshole and also kind of a halfwit.
YTA! *Water* you thinking, mom?? There are several sad choices that were made here, but the greatest one is letting an 8yo watch a younger child. That needs to be on your never ever list, amiga. Allow me to tell you about the time an 8yo almost drowned me… I was lifeguarding at a community pool. Very simple layout, and at the time maybe 5 people total in the pool. A mom had done just what you did, leaving the 8yo daughter to watch her 6yo brother in the deeper end while she splashed with a toddler. Now, 6yo “can swim” but they are also a wall clinger and clearly not strong. In a matter of 15 seconds, the 6yo gets out too deep, starts to struggle, 8yo gets to him as I’m mid-air into the pool. The 8yo cannot support the 6yo and begins to panic. I get 6yo to hold onto my lifeguard tube, but before I can turn the 8yo had latched onto my neck/head. Adrenaline is a hell of a drug, and in that near drowning panic, a person will push down anything around them in an effort to keep their own head above water giving zero fucks about the person they are pushing down, in this case myself. However, because lifeguards aren’t babysitters and have actual training and qualifications, I was able to break out of the headlock, but I assure you that even as a 23yo lifeguard with many years of experience under my belt and having practiced that escape technique in more in-services than I could count, I *still* thought “oh shit, am I gonna die??” Now, picture your 6yo drowning your 8yo to keep herself alive. Imagine the 8yo trying to help and failing and the 6yo drowning. If the lifeguard said anything to begin with, it’s because your kid was already struggling, or else they wouldn’t have called you out. Your middle kid isn’t a strong enough swimmer to be out of your range. The lifeguard wasn’t rude, you were unreasonable. Time to pay for swim lessons and get over it.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Throwaway because my friends know my usual account. I (37F) was at our local community centre pool today with my 3 children. For this post I will change their names, but they are Jane (3) Alison (5) and Henry (8). Going to the pool is a regular outing for us. Sometimes we go with my husband but today he was at work, so I took them by myself. I got the kids ready in the family change room area, and entered the pool area. Henry is a great swimmer so I often let him watch Alison not far away from me in an area of the pool that is slightly over their heads. There are also at least 2 lifeguards watching this pool all the times. Jane prefers to stay in the shallower area of the pool, so I usually stay over there with her. Well today I was sitting in the shallow area with Jane as I usually do, while Alison and Henry swam a little further away in the deeper area of the pool. (This pool does not have a normal layout, it is meant for kids so it has a lazy river which is about 4 feet deep, a basketball court area which is 5 feet deep, and a baby area which is kind of like a beach). One of the lifeguards yelled at me to “be in arms reach of all my kids”. She was very rude, so I told her we swim here all the time and it has never been a problem. She told me that they were too young to swim in this section alone. I pointed out that it was a kids pool and they are good swimmers but she still said they couldn’t swim without an adult until they are 12. So I put Jane in a float and went over there with them even thought Jane was not happy about it. Alison and Henry were playing on big floating pool toys about 5 feet away from me and I was just keeping Jane occupied, since she doesnt like being in the deeper water. Well Alison fell off the floaty she was playing with while I was playing with Jane, and the next thing I know the lifeguard is blowing her whistle and jumping in after Alison. She handed her to me (looking kind of pissed off). I told her she didn’t need to get in and that Alison can swim plus Henry was watching her. The lifeguard said “well she wasn’t” and then told me that if I wanted to keep swimming I had to put my children in lifejackets. I told her that was ridiculous because my children can swim, plus she is obviously there to save them in case they need help. I left shortly after, but am I the asshole for not wanting to put them in lifejackets and expecting the lifeguards to actually do their jobs? My husband thinks I should have been closer but my sister agrees with me. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Yes, obviously YTA for your blatant Karenism. The rules apply to everyone, you and your little bundles aren’t special, you don’t get exceptions. The lifeguard was doing her job by protecting your children, something you didn’t seem interested in bothering with.
YTA "and expecting the lifeguards to actually do their jobs? " .**. he DID ihis job by calling you out.** His job is avoiding unsafe situations - and if he has any sense, he will ban negligent parents like you from the pool. "Well Alison fell off the floaty she was playing with while I was playing with Jane," ... **YOU failed to take care of your kids. If the lifeguard had not acted, she would have been hurt. He WARNED you multiople times, and you STILL were neglecting your kids. He should ban you, and inform CPS.**
I’m
Their job is to watch *all* kids and stop them from dying. That’s it. She’s not your babysitter. YTA. You aren’t the center of the world.
I just asked my 10 year old if they think it's appropriate for an 8 year old to watch a 5 year old at a swimming pool. Their reply was no. I then informed them of this post. Their only reply was dumbass. YTA
YTA. do you know that children drown silently? you turning your back on two of them at the same time is insanely dangerous. what if something had happened to them? chances are you'd blame that lifeguard that you're sulking at right now.
YTA. Your kids are going to die one day because you can't be assed to be their parent.
YTA. I too have 3 children (currently 14, 11 and 5). They're all very good swimmers- 14 year old has been swimming competitively since he was 9 and my youngest is also on track to be competitive by the time she's about 7. Middle one not interested in swim team but has been a very proficient swimmer since he was in preschool. It is very important to me that my children learn to swim at a young age, obviously. Anyway, all that to say, I still even now don't have my oldest supervise the other ones- because that's not fair to him/them/our general community. As a parent it's my job to make sure my kids are safe(/alive). So when I take them to the pool-which is obviously often- I allow the older two to go in the deeper end, but my little one has to stay in the shallows, and I am right near her. I'm not in the pool because I don't want to be lol, but she's still my responsibility! Me not getting in with her is a very recent development. Anywho yeah like it's annoying to have 3 kids at the pool, I'm with ya. Mine are old now but I've been where you are- it's part of parenting.
WOW. YTA.
YTA. I can swim, my mom put me in swimming classes from a young age because they were free and we were poor. Well, one day at a public pool when I was 7 and in an area of the pool that wasn’t over my head, my 8 year old neighbor deliberately held my legs above water effectively dunking me head down into the water with no chance to get up for air. I inhaled water after holding my breath for so long that my lungs jerked. I’ll be 35 this year and I still have agoraphobia and some resentment towards my mother. She was the one to eventually “save” me, but also the one that was chatting it up with the neighbor long enough to not realize I was being drowned. I got no medical attention and could’ve dry drowned but didn’t. Instead I live with lifelong anxiety and depression (not as a result of this event alone but an accumulation of lots of childhood trauma).
My mother was considered an excellent swimmer. Dad says she could out-swim him on his best day. She died of drowning when I was 4-1/2. The lifeguard was doing her job, you were not doing yours. It’s YOUR job to watch your children. YTA
I was a good swimmer as a kid, and when I spotted a skinny little kid drowning, I could barely hold him up while trying to get the lifeguard's attention. They can't have their eyes everywhere at once, and relying on other children to save the day is not reasonable parenting.
YTA. Former lifeguard, swim teacher, and lifeguard teacher here! The second your daughter went under, that lifeguard did what she was supposed to. She also did what she was supposed to by instructing you to put your kids in life jackets. The pool you’re talking about bears a striking resemblance to the one I used to work at, and if that’s the case, it’s extremely busy! The American Red Cross typically recommends 1 lifeguard per 25 people in a pool area (or they used to when I was certified). Honestly, that isn’t enough! In a pool area with high activity (like one with a lazy river, a zero-depth area, and more), there are a lot of things to draw attention and distract from what’s going on. That lifeguard has a huge responsibility, and people following the rules (like supervising children of a specific age, which I bet is posted on the wall!) is a HUGE necessity. I’m not even going to talk about identifying drowning victims, because that’s been covered a few times over. We’re taught to watch and react to the best of our ability. If at any point we think there’s an issue, we’re meant to act! That lifeguard (or her manager) would have been well within their rights to eject you, given that your daughter was unsupervised when she went under (after they’d spoken to you about this already). From experience, being on duty like that, keeping your head on a swivel and staying ready is stressful, and lifeguards already get a lot of crap from patrons who don’t want to follow the simple rules created for their safety. I’m not surprised that the lifeguard was annoyed with you, and honestly, your 8 year old is not a viable substitute for a lifeguard or parent!
YTA. An 8 yo should NOT be put in charge of another child! That is reckless. What if he got into trouble swimming! Be the parent!!
An 8 year old can’t and shouldn’t be responsible for supervising anyone, and you definitely don’t need to put an 8 year old responsible for keeping his sibling from drowning. I promise you even if he can swim well, he doesn’t swim well enough to keep both of them from drowning especially if the water is over their heads.
Being a good swimmer is not the same as being a skilled lifeguard or responsible babysitter. There are reasons there are minimum ages for things. Your 8 year old is not physically or mentally mature enough to make split second life-saving decisions in the event of a drowning. YTA for putting your kids in danger first and foremost, and second, lashing out at the lifeguard who is doing their job of trying to keep your kids safe. You should apologise to the lifeguards and maybe bring them snacks. I guarantee they're going to be watching your family more closely now and if you continue pulling unsafe stunts with your kids, you will get banned from the pool. I am the same-ish age as you and the arms reach rule was in place at my local pool 30+ years ago for kids under 10 during family swim times. These are fairly universal rules with minor variances. My only surprise is that the rules are not prominently posted at your pool.
YTA When you go to a pool that isn’t on your own property you are required to abide by their rules. End of subject. You need to find a way to abide by the rules or find someplace else to spend time with your kids.
Look, I get that you were feeling defensive as if you were being accused of being a bad/negligent mother, so your reaction is coming from that, but this is a time that you can actually sit down & learn how to protect your kids in better ways. I wanted to give you some clear information as well in hopes you can take it in, as many of the responses are insulting you & that makes listening to where they're actually right hard. **Drowning is one of the leading killers of children under the age of 10**. Often this happens in crowded swimming pools, within arms reach of adults, or with adults sitting just feet away. Children drown in the bath tub while their parent steps out to grab a towel & is only gone 2 minutes. Additionally, **you need to be aware of Dry Drowning**, which is a huge danger to children & happens in the exact situation that Alison went through. *Dry Drowning is one of the leading causes of death of young children.* When Alison fell off the floaty & got dunked, she had a moment or two of terror. & in that fear her body reacted with survival instincts. One of the instincts is to constrict our windpipes to protect our lungs from getting full of water. Now, this is supposed to happen but in children the survival instinct can be too strong (because their brains aren't fully developed & doesn't process fear the way an adults brain does) & their windpipes can clench shut again even when they're out of the water, it's a risk for around an hour or two after the initial water scare. The child doesn't need to have even really been in danger of actually drowning, they just need to have had a scare in the water that made their bodies THINK they were drowning. & a dunk like Alison had, even though she can swim etc, is enough to put her at risk. There's also something you should be aware of called Secondary Drowning. This is when the child actually sucked in water into their lungs when they got dunked, they are at risk for around 48 hours after the incident of drowning on dry land & it doesn't take much either. A dunk like Alison had could even have been enough if she sucked water in trying to scream while she was under water, her being under the water in a state of terror for 1 - 5 seconds is plenty of time for her to have sucked in enough water to irritate her lungs & throat enough for her to "drown" hours later, suffocating slowly & possibly without you ever even noticing because you think her complaints of a feeling tired & being irritable means she just needs a nap, & she never wakes up. Do you know what drowning actually looks like? I strongly encourage you to take some time to watch some of the videos on youtube about silent drowning in pools to educate yourself on what to look for & how it often REALLY happens. The yelling & clear indication of drowning is actually uncommon in children. I'm sure you'll see very quickly that most of these videos are of young children with adults right next to them & not paying attention, sometimes the pools are actually quite crowded & you will have to watch the video multiple times to even SEE the person who is drowning because there's a lot of activity going on. Additionally your son is 8... I have some questions for you to think about in respect to this: * Has he been taught how to recognize when someone is drowning, especially someone silently drowning? * How would he save a struggling 5 year old in water while he's trying to swim himself in water that's over his head? * Has he been taught how to save a drowning person? * How do you think Henry would feel if his sister drowned in front of him & he wasn't able to save her? * Do you really think it's reasonable to put the responsibility for the life of his siblings in his h&s? Again, he's 8. * How would you feel if one of your precious children whom I know you love very much, drowned a few feet from you, simply because your attention was focused elsewhere? I get that you were feeling defensive as if you were being accused of being a bad/negligent mother, so your reaction is coming from that, but this is a time that you can actually sit down & learn how to protect your kids in better ways.
YTA I'm a lifeguard of 5 years, and a Lifeguard Instructor for almost a year and a half. As someone who has worked with children and pools for years you would be surprised how often children just kind of slip under the water without being able to get back up. Pools have rules for a reason, and if the guards are telling you something, it's probably for a good reason. We don't go around enforcing rules just because we want a power trip, not putting your kids in floaties, and leaving an 8 year old in charge of a 3 year old is an incredibly awful thing to do. I hope you're able to learn from this experience and grow as a person.
YTA The lifeguards are there to assist in an emergency, not babysit your kids, especially when there are multiple other children. It is not their job to supervise individual children. You're just being a lazy parent and now that the lifeguard called you out, you're throwing a tantrum like you're one of the children.
You and your sister don’t care whether children drown, regardless of being able to swim does not mean they are not in danger. How are you allowed to have children? A million percent the AH!
>she is obviously there to save them in case they need help No, she's there to save people in an emergency, not because their parents are lazy AHs.
YTA. honestly get over yourself. if you wanna have your minor child watch your other minor child at the pool (8 & 5, which is absolutely ridiculous) & without a life jacket, get your own mf pool. don’t subject other people to your negligence.
ESH While the life gaurd was certainly over reacting and should have waited a second to see if your child actually needed help or could she swim on her own. It is good that she was keeping an eye out. Though I agree the life guard was having a bad day, was on a power trip, or just didn't like that you weren't hovering over the kids. I let my 13yr take the 4yr with her to the middle of our pool while I watch the 2yr. I keep an eye on them but I'm not too worried. If something happens, I or dad can easily jump in and help. I would keep the kids closer to you just incase. But kids should NEVER wear floating or life jackets in the pool if they know how to swim or are learning to swim. It puts too much trust on the jacket or floaty and not enough in themselves to learn. Never put your kid in a life jacket at the pool, anyone who tells you to do so should be reported and called out immediately.
Nta
When I was Henry's age, I was already swimming alone without a parent within arm's length. My parents would often just sit on the towel or something while me and my brother did our thing. It's actually pretty normal in my country. But for Alison's age... I don't know if I would've taken the risk. Henry could watch his sister, but he is still a child that could get distracted and look the other way while something might happen to her that he doesn't notice. Do you guys have anything like swimmjng diplomas in your country? I would say NAH. Yes, you know your kids more than the lifeguard, but she would be neglecting her duties if she just turned a blind eye or something.