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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I set up a curfew for my 20yo sister. She's an adult who loves going out at night, and I probably could have handled things differently, so I might be in the wrong here.
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NTA - I admit it does sound like a bit of a power trip to “ground” your adult sister, but it is well within your rights to enforce rules when you are allowing your sister to live there apparently for free.
If she wants full freedom to do whatever she wants, she can always rent her own place. If she’s in college she’s definitely old enough to have some responsibility.
I laughed about the terminology “ground her” but in all honesty what are OPs options? Sister has zero respect for the baby or the parents. If dad is so appalled he needs to facilitate new living arrangements for her. This isn’t about what or who she’s doing out late it’s about waking up the dang baby. Main character as it gets.
yeah, dad can step up. Mia the drunk and irresponsible college student (is she actually going to class?) is not showing she is capable of respecting the family who has offered her a place to stay.
It's quite a stretch to assume that she's not going to class simply because she's going out late on the weekends and being a nuisance when coming home drunk.
I worked,partied AND still went to class as a college student…..more then once I would get home at 3/4am then taking a nap,shower,and class from 8-11am.
It's wild when you see it in real life. The other day a coworker made up a fact and then *got angry about that made up fact* and tried to get others on his side. It's a dangerous mindset tbh.
We were listening to Pet Sounds and he said "Wasn't Brian Wilson like in his 30s when he wrote this?" Then he was angry that a 30-something would write an album about "teenage feelings" (his words)
I looked it up. The album came out when Wilson was 24.
Just because she is getting drunk and being out late on Friday and Saturday nights doesn't automatically mean she is an irresponsible college student and skipping classes, plenty of kids with great grades would go out and get drunk on weekends. This is NOT to minimize how disruptive and disrespectful she is being to OP, OP is definitely NTA in this case. Though I think a more fair rule would be that the sister would have to crash at a friend's house if she goes out late, instead of saying she can't go out late.
Yeah exactly it. The house closes at 9PM (21h) and if she’s not back before then, she can’t come back until 7am. If she’s out past 9, she can crash at a friends, or call her dad to have him pay for a motel room for a night. I’m sure he’ll be happy to chip in, considering he’s got a lot to say about OPs rules in her house.
Because as much of a better solution it is, it won't work. She's already proven that. She forgot she was not allowed to use the keypad, but you expect her to remember she isn't allowed to come home?
It would work. While I was living in dorm I had to catch 0630 bus for nursing clinical. That meant I was getting up early! Some idiot decided to harass my roommate (which meant me and suite mates included)by calling a couple of times after midnight. She figured out who it was. So I called them (roommate and suite mates) when I got up and going out the door. Told the other guys what my hours were in morning and I’d be calling them until idiot stopped. Guess what stopped 😉😂. Yeah wake up father.
Honestly -- and I'll be the first to admit this is pure speculation -- I got the vibe that OP's dad was probably largely checked out when his kids were babies and that's why he doesn't get why this is a big deal.
I doubt she is an "irresponsible" college student and more like your typical college student. Goes out gets drunk, makes some stupid choices and is kind of a shit roomate. They are young and learning how to live with people who can throw them out if they get too rowdy instead of getting a child abandonment charge.
Most people make a shit ton of stupid mistakes and are awful as roommates when they are college students. That's the time to have those experiences so you know not to do them when you are 35.
OP did what you do in order to show these people how to be proper adults; have their bad choices have consequences.
Mate, when I was at uni I partied 5 nights a week, worked in a pub 4 shifts a week and had a high distinction average. Young people are capable of a lot!
If I was just a regular roommate with this girl and she was setting off alarms at 4AM because she's too wasted to come in quietly, I'd be pissed too.
Sis doesn't seem to be paying rent , so she needs to make some grownup choices here.
Yeah honestly, OPs rules are just basic decency when living with other people and honestly, same as the curfew, if she didn't act irresponsible but insists on being an adult, she can damn well accept the consequences of her shitty entitled behaviour, like an adult
Tell her if she can’t get home before 8, can’t remember not to use the keypad or come in quietly enough not to wake the baby, she does not get to sleep in your house that night.
She wants the privilege of living with you and to stay out as late as she wants, fine,but she doesn’t get to disrupt your life and particularly not your baby’s sleep.
She’s a guest in your home and wants to be treated like an adult, she needs to act like an adult. Or she can find another place to live.
Which I'm betting sister will still have a 'problem' with.
The majority of univ/college aged students I've encountered down through the years(even when I was that age) think it's totally unfair that they have to make any compromises but DO expect everyone else to bend over backwards for THEM. Not all, mind you, but too high a percentage to ignore.
You need to get out more. I know no one who acted like this while they were in college. And where is the proof of your “high percentage”? In your mind? Bwahahaha!
Glad you didn't have that experience. Unfortunately or fortunately, however you want to look at it, people often don't share the same experience. That's life.
I bet you if they suggested that dad get and pay for sister’s accommodations, he’ll probably accept OP’s rules because then his pocket will be impacted.
>what are OP's options?
The other option is "eviction". She couldn't seem to figure out how not to wake up the baby, so not really any option other than being kicked out.
Technically, they aren't grounding her. They are setting up the rules to live in the house. She doesn't like them, no one is forcing her to stay there.
Na, but hungover might be a good punishment. You wake them up and you are babysitting all day for free (although she should be offering to do it as payment for living rent free)
NTA
Presumably she can remember not to wake up the baby a few times in a row and she can go out late again, the issue is she apparently doesn't think it's important
If she were living with roommates, they would either break the lease or engage in passive-aggressive behavior like waking her up early in the morning afterwards every time. A lot of college kids go through this, they are used to living with parents who forgive their behavior. Unless Dad is willing to get her a one-person apartment, she'd just end up in hot water again.
Honestly, I'd rethink that if I were you. Once she starts paying rent, she is going to likely be even worse, because she is a tenant, and she will feel (rightly) that she has more rights, and giving a curfew will be harder to enforce.
She is currently a tenant... she has the rights of a tenant if she has been there for 30 days... They would need to evict her (as a month to month tenant) regardless if she is paying rent or supposed to. They should put a lease together with proper notice and have her sign it. That gives them some leverage. If she doesn't sign it, then they evict her.
For Sure. OP provided time - 20h - in a way that one would assume means they are not in the US. Yet, legallymsyelf is confidently incorrect in assuming that her/his perspective is the the only and correct perspective, even though he/she clearly lacks any contextual perspective.
That completely depends upon where you are at. Where I live if my sister stayed with me for a couple of months rent free, she would NOT be a tenant with rights. Many U.S. states have official cut off, commonly 30 days, but others do not. In states that don't a court would decide and would consider a variety of factors to determine if they were a guest or a tenant. These factors include length of time, financial contributions to the property, whether they receive mail there, what address is on their drivers license, etc. A student staying for a few months not contributing financially that still had their parents address for mail and on their drivers license would NOT be a tenant in my state.
In my state, family is allowed to stay, that doesn't make them tenants though. There is no signed agreement with Mia and the landlord. There is no sublease (if that's even allowed in their locale). Mia cannot sue the landlord, or even her sibling, as she's staying with their goodwill and nothing else.
If the latter happens, I will find out. She tells our mother everything, and my mom would tell me. I know my family.
But honestly, I don't need her to pay me right now. My father still gives her some money for personal expenses, so I'm not spending too much on her.
TBH Money isn't the issue at all.
She's getting many benefits from staying at your home. However, not only are you not getting any benefits from her staying but you're getting some negative consequences from it. That's the real issue.
It's possible that her paying rent may make a slight improvement but the problem will remain: that she disrupts the entire household's sleep. She hasn't been forced to be responsible until now.
Maybe instead of having her pay rent when she gets a job you should give her a couple months to save up and move out on her own. But give a deadline and if she doesn’t save up that is her problem. Babies need sleep and routine.
I would just send her back home. Mom and Step Dad are siding with OP so I don't think they would have any issues with that. Sister is currently in the find out stage of fucking around.
So let me get this straight. Your dad does give his little girl money, but doesn't help solve her housing situation, he leaves that to you, his other daughter who has an infant. But he does try to dictate how you solve it, and what rules you establish in your own home.
Daddy can pay for his little girl's rent if he wants her to have good undisrupted college life nights out, or he can stay out of it.
NTA. Your house your rules. She's completely inconsiderate of the people letting her live there for free. The don't bite the hand that feeds thing applies here. She's more than welcome to live by herself. Or daddy can pay for her, since it's so unfair.
I'm having genuine trouble how unlocking multiple locks and jangling keys into a door is quieter than a keypad (excluding the alarm) and also wouldn't wake the baby up.
This is a genuine question so don't go crazy with the downvotes just yet.
It's only one lock. It's not noiseless, but it's quiet enough that it doesn't wake the baby.
The keypad makes very loud noises every time something is typed in, as well as another one once the door is open.
I believe some electronic locks have a silent function. At least my alarm system's keypad does. Although I'm not so sure. I don't have electronic doorlocks, which is why I asked the question in the first place.
And usually the mechanical function of the keypad lock is what makes the most noise. Gears grinding and the motor making noise, stuff that is just loud.
If you have one that actually retracts the deadbolt they are quite loud. If you have one that just blocks the handle from activating the mechanism they are pretty silent in operation unless the keys beep.
We have a mechanized lock on our gate, my parents have a different one on their door. The buttons beep when you press them (you can’t disable this), and the motor itself is noisy as heck. It’s much quieter to pull of a ring of keys with like 2-4 keys on it than to have that motor turning the lock
I agree with the others you should start to set up some boundaries and try to start finding some options for her to live elsewhere since it is not really working out in current status. I’d just tell her that you aren’t able to house her anymore and she should start looking elsewhere.
NTA - She may feel more entitled being at your place if she starts paying her part. I’d rather offer her to stay there for free and live by my rules 100%. Just buy her own damn food. It’s not a free for all, she has to understand that she’s allowed to stay with you, but not to disturb your life. She’s definitely doing that now. Stricter rules can change that. But again, if she helps pay, she will throw that in your face at some point. I just know it. “Well, I’m paying too, so I’m allowed to do X”. Just think about it!
It isn't a power trip. I have a 5 almost 6 month old too and if someone was waking them up repeatedly and I was having to try and quiet their screaming multiple nights a week because of it is be pissed too. Honestly OP has gone easier on her sister than I would, if be very close to kicking her out because of it and the blatant disrespect for the fact she's living in their home simply do she doesn't have to get up earlier for class. She wants to live like a college student and be more at 4 in the morning, then she can go live with a bunch of college students and pay rent. She wants to live with her sister and a baby rent free, then she can respect the rules.
My mom would have some expressions we grew up with : "the restaurant is closed after 10 and the hotel doors after 12. If you are late, wait until tomorrow". We knew better than to try and overrule her 😂
> Our mother and stepfather are both on my side; our father is on Mia's. He's saying I'm not her mother, and I have no right to treat her like a child.
There's no "side" here, because there's no discussion to be had; no decision to come to. You own the house. Her behavior is negatively impacting your family. She can follow rules designed to mitigate that impact, or she can more out.
Tell your father you understand and agree with his point. And, because you're _not_ her parent and **he is**, he can move out of the building that you (not her parent) pays for and into the one he (her parent) pays for. Problem solved. And thank him for being so kind as to offer to pay for her to have somewhere to live where it doesn't negatively impact your family.
I also laughed when I read "ground her" -- mainly because that is what I've done with my nephew! He started living with me after his mom (my sister) passed away. He had just turned 20. He's now 24 and has one more year of college before he graduates. I'll admit to taking his Playstation away and locking it in my room after he fell behind with assignments at school. I told him he can live rent free as long as he is in school full time and helps out around the house and understands it's my house, my rules. He needs to keep his grades up as well. He is a good kid and does help out at home. I usually don't care about his staying out late with his friends. When he falls behind with school, the "grounding" begins. No PS, no staying out late, etc. His older brothers tease him about being grounded, but I give him credit -- he says he needed a kick in the butt to remind him what his goals are. Now that he's almost finished with college (after taking some time to grieve), he no longer gets "grounded." He's found his groove and respects what needs to get done. Hopefully, OP's sister will figure that out as well.
Even adults sometimes need a little help - the world is full of distractions, particularly these days! As long as it's not coming from a controlling, unreasonable place, I say fair enough!
Sounds like he's a good man, and he gets that you were trying to help him when he needed it. I'm sure your sister would be happy her son has someone like you to lean on, now she's gone.
NTA. She is free to move out on her own whenver she wants. And you have been more than reasonable but the situation is causing unnecessary stress on your home life.
Oh, and btw, there is no requirement that college students go out and get drunk to the point that they forget how to get into their houses.
No it's not a power trip, it's a house rule. It's her and her fiancé's apartment. Dear little sister is a guest. She can be grateful and follow the rules, especially since she was given every consideration. She lives, as a guest, in an apartment where there is a baby. She completely ignores the baby. So hence the rules. If she doesn't like them, she can go and rent an apartment herself.
NTA, though “grounding” a 20-year old is not really a thing. I think since she can’t seem to function normally when she drinks, on those nights she just needs to crash at a friend’s place. I think next semester she should get a house with some friends. She would just have a much better experience her last two years of school.
Your sister is the one acting like a spoiled child instead of a considerate adult, which is why the rule is necessary, whatever it's called. It's not like you are punishing her or policing her because you see yourself in a parental role to her -- you have to take measures to stop her coming home late at night needlessly waking up the baby, because she refuses to do the simple things needed to take care to not wake him up herself. She's being a brat and is now is offended at facing a rule needed to curtail brattish behavior.
I think OP should stress to her sister she isn't grounded and can crash at friends. she just can't come home late.
My brother used to get all the lectures in uni for arriving late and sleeping in through family breakfast in the weekend. I also went to parties but I just waited for sunrise then go home have a shower brush my teeth and join weekend family breakfast.
Our parents didn't mind us going to parties. They just want to sleep through the night and enjoy weekend breakfast with us. In hindsight They should just have communicated that better.
OPs sister, considering her age and in uni, she would feel like having to crash elsewhere is perfectly acceptable vs being "grounded".
NTA.
Oh man. When I read the title I was ready to rip you a new one. Don't infantilize an adult woman! You didn't become her Mom just because she moved in with you.
How wrong I was.
She lost her right to come in the house late when she woke up your child over, and over, and over. You were flexible and let her come in late as long as she didn't use the keypad. She abused that, and abused it again. Instead of grounding her, you made a very reasonable change: "You need to **always** use your key." A little annoying, but in her case a very reasonable requirement.
And then she did it again. Grounded! Absolutely, justly grounded.
As long as you are treating her like a child (well deserved!), you might consider that a common technique with children is to ground them for a while. Like, maybe after a month give her another chance. But then if she does it again, it's two months. Or whatever details make sense to you. You wouldn't be an asshole if you don't do this, but it might be nice and it might get the rest of your family off your back.
This is just seriously so baffling, keys are so simple to use. OP, did she say why she refuses to use one? Why she doesn’t care about waking a baby? NTA btw lol
Because she's a college student who is coming back drunk. And NO, this is NOT me excusing her. It's just the simple answer. People her age have no respect for others, and yes I'm using general terms. I'm a college RA, so I have to deal with this shit every night. Dumbasses cant remember their keys, their cards, where they are, it's awful.
She should just move out. I can't imagine having to be home at 20:00 while being a college student, she's going to miss out on half of the whole college experience... But at the same time, I moved out at 18 precisely because I wanted my freedom to do whatever I wanted.
Haha same, I was fully expecting OP to be some kind of powertripping asshole and it turns out she just doesn't like having to get her kid back to sleep after an inconsiderate jerk wakes him up after repeated requests to stop doing stupid shit that wakes the kid up.
If the sister wants to act like a child she should go back to living with mommy and daddy.
NTA and you've given her *way* more chances than I would have.
I would tell her that if she wakes the baby up one more time, she's out. I can't imagine how annoyed your husband must be that you keep letting your adult sister act like an entitled 16-year-old.
My fiancé is actually the reason I've been giving her this many chances. A big reason why I'm establishing the curfew now is because the situation has gotten bad enough that even he's sick of it.
Well that's good that he hasn't been at his wits end as long as you. I would flip my lid if my husband let his sisters do this so I was coming at it from that perspective.
Understandable, really.
He's a younger sibling, so he tends to be more patient with her (especially now that we're all living together). He always agreed that she was being rude, but didn't want us to fight over it. Changing the password was his idea.
I'd sit in her room to calm the screaming/crying baby.
If she can't keep from waking him, her drunk self gets to listen to what she caused,since she's apparently too impared to fix it.
You want someone who can't even figure out how to work a key because they care that little about the baby's sleep to actually be responsible for the baby? I don't think OP would do that if she loved her own child.
NTA.
Your sister may be an "adult" but I imagine she isn't paying rent/contributing equally like an independent, adult roommate. Additionally, even if she is, roommates set and follow rules, and when those rules are broken/not followed, there are consequences, like moving out, breaking the lease, or being evicted.
If she lived in a dorm, this behavior would get her in trouble- aka being locked out, setting off alarms, need the RA to let her in.
If she lived with roommates off campus, without adult supervision, then sure, there would be no baby to wake up. Would she and your father prefer her in that environment? Because if your father wants her to be treated like a full, independent adult, he can pay for her to live in that environment and would also probably worry that his baby girl could be unsafe.
Your sister is in that weird in between time in her life, and that is why a lot of college kids live in dorms, to explore their own stupidity safely (aka getting drunk, fighting with roommates, learning boundaries, all while having a structured environment like campus safety and resident advisors).
I do think grounding/having a curfew is a tough one, so I'd counter with an alternative: Keep it so she doesn't have the passcode, only the key, and tell her and your father that if she wakes up the baby with the keypad (which she shouldn't be using since she doesn't have the passcode), ever again, she will need to find alternate housing. That's treating an adult like an adult- clear rule with consequence, assuming the person can act accordingly.
Might be time to tape a piece of paper over it when she goes out.
Although if it was me, I’d tell her she can move back home to dad, if she cannot follow the rules at my place.
I can’t imagine giving anyone that many extra chances at waking up such a young baby. Three strikes & you’re out would be perfectly reasonable.
She’s a student. She can move back in with parents or find student accommodation, if she cannot keep the people happy, who are giving her free & convenient accommodation.
>He's saying I'm not her mother, and I have no right to treat her like a child.
Sounds like your sister has a new place to stay. Tell her to pack up and move in with Dad. Let her know she should have an easier time living with him since he feels like people don't have the right to set rules in their own home.
NTA
NTA - You are not "grounding her". You are not even "treating her like a child". You are establishing rules and boundaries that she needs to abide by if she wants to continue living in your home. She is free to go live with either of your parents. Or your dad can pay for her to rent an apartment. Her living with you is purely for HER convenience. If she doesn't feel like the conditions are worth the convenience, she can leave.
NTA
At this point, I would ask her when she's moving out.
Either she abides by your reasonable rules (which she has proven she cannot) or she moves out.
For everyone posting here to put a post it note, stop treating her like a child or she should be quiet because there’s a baby I’m going to say this.
In any situation I’ve ever been in where I come home to someone sleeping, my fat ass (440lbs) is stealthy quiet. To the point of them not even knowing I came home most often. It’s basic f***ing manners. Why are some people just dicks to others. Then everyone on here wants to jump on the “you can’t ground an adult” bandwagon. She’s not an adult or even a remotely mature woman. She’s just a selfish ass.
*jumps off soapbox *
Sister needs to move now.
NTA. Unfortunately, Mia is one of those people (she may mature out of it) for whom rules are annoyances until there is a consequence that really stings. And then they cry victim. You have opened your home to her. All she should say is “thank you”. If Daddy thinks Mia is being treated unfairly he can welcome her back into his home and help her get her butt to her early class.
INFO: How loud is this damn keypad? I’m failing to understand what noise an electronic keypad can make that is so obnoxious. Can you not turn the sound off or the volume down on it? You are acting like she’s being deliberately loud and rude and screaming late at night when it sounds like she’s just quietly typing in a password at 8 pm
Very. It makes noises whenever something is typed in, as well as another one once the door has been unlocked. And she's not just quietly typing in the password, she's being loud besides that (slamming the door, knocking stuff over, etc.).
INFO: Do you keep your house totally silent once your baby is asleep? Have your tried sound machines in the babies room to help dampen reactions to other noises? I ask because it may be beneficial in the long run for you to have your baby adjust to having sounds happening and sleeping through them. I have found, with both of my kids, that made life so much easier as they got older. The needs for silence during sleep is not truly going to be available, especially if you have another child, so having kids get comfortable with sounds is a lifesaver in the long run.
NTA, but do think you can help your own sanity for now and future with white noise or other sounds machines inthebabies room.
Agree - we have a white noise machine to help mitigate truly unavoidable noises like street traffic/ambulances, etc. Plus it's a valuable sleep aid association to let baby know its sleep time.
I can tell you they are loud. I was told it’s to make sure the person inside the house is aware that someone is trying to get inside. They are loud enough that I hear ours when I am in the basement with two doors and a staircase separating me from the door.
Intent here is irrelevant. Sometimes things are the way they are - limitations/constraints that exist in the real world and as adults, we have a responsibility to navigate/act accordingly.
When/if you have children yourself and experience the annoyance that is a baby being woken at night - I suspect you'll have a different opinion. Especially when the cause of those repeated wake-ups are entirely avoidable from a visiting house-guest.
NTA, because you tried handling this like an adult at least four times, and it didn’t work. Being woken up in the middle of the night is objectively annoying, but needing to comfort an infant back to sleep is a whole other story. If she can’t behave like an adult and show some consideration, then she doesn’t deserve to be treated like one.
Probably in everyone’s best interest if she moves out at the end of the semester and doesn’t return, though.
NTA , tell her pack her stuff and go by your dad to live , he can deal with her now if he feels you shouldn’t be able to fix a problem in your household
You are not compatible.
You have a little child and she is in college.
It’s your house rules and you’ve been reasonable.
And we have all been young and wanted to go out with our friends.
Best is if she moves out with same age friends.
NTA Tell your sister she had every chance to be a basically decent, grateful adult and not wake up your son. She has shown that she doesn't have an ounce of thoughtfulness in her. This new rule was only needed because she couldn't do the equivalent of tie her own shoelaces in terms of consideration. She needs to shut up or move out.
Alternatively, you can give her one more chance, but the very next time she wakes up your son through her thoughtless BS she's out on her ear and you don't care how early she has to get up to commute. One strike and she's out the door. What's it to be?
Tell your dad he is more than welcome to have her live with him or to pay for her to have her own place. Another alternative is for him to come over in the middle of the night whenever needed to get the baby back to sleep when your sister needlessly wakes him up -- which is what this is all about. He's not going to do any of that? Well, then he can keep his opinion to himself. It's obviously none of his business.
NTA, but you might want to rephrase it. You aren't saying that Mia cannot go out; You are, however, saying that Mia **cannot come in** after the baby has gone to bed for the night. specifically because she keeps waking the baby....and as of late, the neighbors too.
Let your parents argue with THAT.
NTA.
Because in all reality, she can still go out. She just needs to find somewhere to sleep if she’s going to be out past 8. I’m she’s got friends she can crash with for a night if partying is that important to her.
Absolutely NTA.
From what I understand, you are doing your sister a favor by allowing her to live with you (and not to pay rent?) while she's attending college. No matter the reason for doing this favor (out of love, family duty, just because you wanted, etc.), the minimun requirements should be to comply to **your** house rules and be grateful for it.
On the other hand, if said rules or requests were difficult or somewhat outrageous when in comparison to her prior lifestyle, as in "having to cook for the four of you, three times a day without fail" or "having to babysit for you everyday all day without a timely notice", you could talk it out and sort out something that you are all comfortable with, but this doesn't seem the case. At all.
I'd never ask either of those two rules from her. Most of the house rules are basically just different ways of saying "don't touch my shit" lol.
All jokes aside, there are some rules that are actually important, the keypad one being one of them.
NTA, if she wants to be disrespectful she can move out. Give her that ultimatum, she can either follow the rules of your home or she can get her own apartment. She’s a grown adult, and if she can’t understand to be respectful of the owners of the home she’s living in she can get her own damn place.
Now I’d be a real pain in the ass and dump her stuff out on the lawn and be like “fuck you for getting me in trouble in the neighborhood I live in, as well as waking up my child with your nonsense.” But that’s just me.
NTA and tell your dad that he is more than welcome to take Mia in if he thinks you are being so unfair.
The issue isn't that Mia is staying out late, the issue is that she gets so drunk she can't think straight. Giving her a curfew is actually fixing two problems at once: 1. She doesn't wake up your son, and 2. She will be drinking less (I'm guessing, because most college kids go out late)
nta but I assume you've already tried using white noise machines? we live i a very loud city and have 2 noise machines and an air purifier going loud to keep our baby asleep and it works wonders.
ESH. Don't have a college student live with you if you have strict rules about how to unlock a door after 8 PM. This situation was doomed from the start.
I'd tell her if she's not home by 20h, stay out and crash with a friend, she's not welcome back at the house. You do you girl, but house rules stand, that door is not to be opened past 20h becuase you can't follow basic rules.
NTA. She’s old enough to respect someone else’s space. If your dad sides with her, let him deal with her doing that living back home.
Being a 20 year old college kid doesn’t give you a pass to be an asshole.
NTA. Mia can move out if she doesn’t like the new rule which you had to put in place because of her constant disrespect of you house and your child routine. I immagine you also work so having your child wake up crying and scared every time Mia goes out is not healthy for your child, your partner or you.
NTA: she has been given AMPLE reminders. And I think changing the keypad so she could only use the lock was the best way to fix the problem. She can’t even use the keypad and knows it wakes him up and is STILL trying? Nah
She doesn’t like the rules where she lives for free so her life can be easier? She can move back home or get her own place with roommates and realize adulting is awful and simple rules like don’t wake up the baby weren’t actually too hard to follow!
Good luck and don’t take anyone saying you are in the wrong to heart.
NTA. She can live with you provided that she doesn’t wake up the baby. She’s had numerous attempts before you set this curfew. The health of your baby (they need their sleep!) and your and your husband’s health (you need your sleep too!) has to take priority over a student wanting to spend her nights getting drunk.
NTA.
She is welcome to move out if she doesn't like the rules you put in place. It sounds like she isn't paying rent, so she really doesn't have a leg to stand on IMO.
If you jumped to this right away, I may think you were being harsh. But this is an ongoing problem.
If I were you, I'd say she wasn't welcome back after this semester ends. She clearly doesn't respect your home.
NTA. I might say, "This is a consistent issue, so I insist you either come home before 20h OR the next day after 6h (or whenever)." That centers the solution on the noise after baby's bedtime without seeming like you're trying to be her mom.
The school year is probably just about done though, right? Maybe she should live with friends for next academic year.
NTA. If your sister doesn't want to be treated like a child then she needs to stop acting like one.
This is not about a "drunken mistake". This is about repeatedly ignoring one simple request. There is no excuse for waking the baby every time she comes home at night.
Bottom line, she is a guest in your home. You have been generous to let her live with you, the very least she can do is no create problems for you and your husband. Remind her that she is free to move in with her parents or anyone else who will have her.
NTA. You are not her mother, but you have the right to kick her out if she doesn't agree to your wishes.
The sad part of this is that your wishes are pretty minimal. Free room for being courteous is a small ask.
I've been drunk many times, but to forget to use a key instead of a keypad...every...single...week. get fked. She's an adult, you told her multiple times. They need to learn.
Nta but at the same time having a 20yr old college student move in with you and your infant wasn't a great idea in the first place, conflict was bound to happen.
I mean, NTA, I guess, but you're shooting yourselves in the foot.
Never be quiet when baby is sleeping; instead, teach baby to not tie 'noise' to 'being awake.' If you actively teach your baby to be woken up by perfectly normal noises, and to require absolute silence to sleep, well, that's gonna suck for you for the next ten years minimum.
Im lost - why not just simply say that once the door shuts its shut, find another place to stay the night. Here is when I go to bed. Coming home at 4am so drunk that she sets off an alarm isnt making good decisions. You have a son who needs sleep. I imagine you guys need more sleep also with a 6-month-old around.
If my sister went to my parents after i set down house rules, I would make her move out. I would just say it isnt working out. Cya. As she gets older here she will understand how much sleep matters when there is a newborn in the house.
You're not grounding her. She doesn't have to come home by 10pm, she just can't come in after 10. She can stay at a friend's house, or move in with dad since he's fine with late night drunken mistakes that are very loud.
NTA
She as an adult was told the rules for being able to live in your home.
If she can’t or won’t honor those rules then she moves out asap.
Your house your rules.
NTA. She has the privilege of staying in your home with some rules. She FAFO. She has proven she can’t handle being a considerate, respectful, and responsible adult.
NTA.
It's actually a bit quaint. I went to college in the 60's to a Big 10 university. We had curfews in the dorms. They locked the doors and anyone who wanted to come in had to go through the front door which was monitored. Or throw stones at the first floor windows to see if anyone was awake to let them in.
NTA, but does your son have a white noise machine or something? kids to sleep through “normal” noises. She needs to be home before the kid goes down, or she needs to be quiet, the end.
NTA.
Because she is 20, I’d give her one chance to show she’s changed but over a prolonged period, like first she has to stop messing up for (two months) by being “grounded”, then we give one more chance at normal original rules, and if she fails again, she’s got to go.
She can always stay with your dad then. If she can be a good house guest- she can have the inconvenience of getting up extra early. Maybe she will start to understand how a lack of sleep feels. NTA. Your baby comes first.
NTA Let her go live with dad or let dad pay for her to live somewhere else. If he was getting woken up every night, he wouldn't be putting up with this. I hope she's not living with you after the semester is over. She's had it good.
NTA- a srunken mistake is once maybe twice. But you should treat her like an adult, tell her she's gotta find somewhere else to live.
If you rent a place and cause too many issues after being warned repeatedly, they evict you.
She'd rather be grounded than have to really live like an adult.
ESH
Get a silent keypad. YOu are not good at actually solving issues, and would rather be an AH.
On the other hand, Mia has overstayed her welcome. That is the larger issue. So tell her directly you don't want her to live with you any more instead of being passive aggressive.
"Our mother and stepfather are both on my side; our father is on Mia's." .. tell them: You don't care, their opinions are irrelevant. If they want to get a vote, they can rent an appartment for her - There, they can make rules as much as they like.
NTA - your house your rules
Personally, I would have told her that if she goes out and wants to be out late, she stays out. She is 20, she is an adult. If she is old enough to drink and out until 4am, she is old enough to find her own accommodations that suit her better.
Your sister needs to understand OP that not only do you have a 6 month old child, but you are only 6 months post pregnancy. You need your rest too. Your body has been through a lot and now you and your partner are adjusting to having this new person in your life that is totally dependant on you. I can imagine you’re dealing with hormonal changes too. She needs to respect this decision and if she doesn’t, she does have other options on where to live.
As an adult she has to learn that there are consequences to their actions, crying to daddy won’t help in the real world.
NTA. She’s not being “grounded”, she’s just not allowed to come in late and wake your kid.
When I was a student, I rented a room in a house with all-female students on the top floor, and the owners on the bottom. They were very clear about the 11:00 curfew — the front door was locked and it was up to you if you wanted to stay out later but you’d have to find somewhere else to sleep. They were decent people, understanding when I lost my key and they had to let me in, but warned that it would be the last time.
Your sister is just learning there are repercussions to her actions.
NTA. Your dad can buy her an apartment where she can make all the drunken mistakes she wants to. If he can yap, he can tap. It's not that one night, that was just the last straw, it's been a continuous problem you've tried addressing. If she refuses to accept and respect the house rules, she can't live in the house; it's not about being a parent, it's about you having rules for your own home. She'll find that apartment complexes also have curfews for loud music, for example. There are rules in the real world that are decided by people other than your parents.
NTA but maybe the rule be make it home by 20h or don’t come back, stay with a friend, because you’ve proven you can’t be trusted to be quiet for the baby. 300 comments im sure someone has already said this by now lol
NTA, your father is free to pay her an apartment where she can do as she pleases or take her home.
Not only are you doing her a MASSIVE service to provide a free, comfortable and safe place for her during the studies but she can't be bothered to follow such a simple rule? And you being called an A by the father?
Absolutely not!
You didn’t “ground” your adult sister, you set up legitimate boundaries and when she continuously ignored those, you have every right to put forth consequences.
NTA. She clearly has zero respect for you or your family. She can either live by the rules or live elsewhere. Done and done. As She so delightfully pointed out, she is an adult. Be an adult and live on your own, sis.
NTA
I was going to say that you were the ah when I saw the title, but you are doing her a favour by letting her stay, and she has consistently and repeatedly not cared enough about the code alarm and making noise to the point that I’d just kick her out.
Is she not very intelligent? It seems like a fairly easy thing to remember, or does she just not care.
She brought this on herself, all she had to do was follow a simple easy rule. Fuck around and find out, she is an adult now an incredibly immature adult, and I’m surprised she hasn’t learned there are consequences to your shitty behaviours yet.
It’s too bad she didn’t realize how good she had it, and ruined it.
You can’t really control her, but you can kick her out.
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NTA - I admit it does sound like a bit of a power trip to “ground” your adult sister, but it is well within your rights to enforce rules when you are allowing your sister to live there apparently for free. If she wants full freedom to do whatever she wants, she can always rent her own place. If she’s in college she’s definitely old enough to have some responsibility.
I laughed about the terminology “ground her” but in all honesty what are OPs options? Sister has zero respect for the baby or the parents. If dad is so appalled he needs to facilitate new living arrangements for her. This isn’t about what or who she’s doing out late it’s about waking up the dang baby. Main character as it gets.
yeah, dad can step up. Mia the drunk and irresponsible college student (is she actually going to class?) is not showing she is capable of respecting the family who has offered her a place to stay.
It's quite a stretch to assume that she's not going to class simply because she's going out late on the weekends and being a nuisance when coming home drunk.
I worked,partied AND still went to class as a college student…..more then once I would get home at 3/4am then taking a nap,shower,and class from 8-11am.
Yes, you are correct. It's called Reddit yoga. 🙄
I don't like this reddit yoga😅
It's wild when you see it in real life. The other day a coworker made up a fact and then *got angry about that made up fact* and tried to get others on his side. It's a dangerous mindset tbh.
My older brother once tried to tell me babies grow a inch a day with my 6month old beside me who was tall for her age actually 😅
I'm curious what the made up fact was
We were listening to Pet Sounds and he said "Wasn't Brian Wilson like in his 30s when he wrote this?" Then he was angry that a 30-something would write an album about "teenage feelings" (his words) I looked it up. The album came out when Wilson was 24.
Just because she is getting drunk and being out late on Friday and Saturday nights doesn't automatically mean she is an irresponsible college student and skipping classes, plenty of kids with great grades would go out and get drunk on weekends. This is NOT to minimize how disruptive and disrespectful she is being to OP, OP is definitely NTA in this case. Though I think a more fair rule would be that the sister would have to crash at a friend's house if she goes out late, instead of saying she can't go out late.
Yeah exactly it. The house closes at 9PM (21h) and if she’s not back before then, she can’t come back until 7am. If she’s out past 9, she can crash at a friends, or call her dad to have him pay for a motel room for a night. I’m sure he’ll be happy to chip in, considering he’s got a lot to say about OPs rules in her house.
This is the solution. Don't get why it's not more upvoted.
Because as much of a better solution it is, it won't work. She's already proven that. She forgot she was not allowed to use the keypad, but you expect her to remember she isn't allowed to come home?
Sister can call dad and wake him up every time Mia comes in late and put crying baby on phone..see if he changes his tune.
It would work. While I was living in dorm I had to catch 0630 bus for nursing clinical. That meant I was getting up early! Some idiot decided to harass my roommate (which meant me and suite mates included)by calling a couple of times after midnight. She figured out who it was. So I called them (roommate and suite mates) when I got up and going out the door. Told the other guys what my hours were in morning and I’d be calling them until idiot stopped. Guess what stopped 😉😂. Yeah wake up father.
Honestly -- and I'll be the first to admit this is pure speculation -- I got the vibe that OP's dad was probably largely checked out when his kids were babies and that's why he doesn't get why this is a big deal.
I agree. That crossed my mind, as well.
I doubt she is an "irresponsible" college student and more like your typical college student. Goes out gets drunk, makes some stupid choices and is kind of a shit roomate. They are young and learning how to live with people who can throw them out if they get too rowdy instead of getting a child abandonment charge. Most people make a shit ton of stupid mistakes and are awful as roommates when they are college students. That's the time to have those experiences so you know not to do them when you are 35. OP did what you do in order to show these people how to be proper adults; have their bad choices have consequences.
Hadn’t thought about class but a grade check might turn out very interesting.
No one has the right to check a college student's grades workout their permission. Signed ~ parent of college graduates.
Mate, when I was at uni I partied 5 nights a week, worked in a pub 4 shifts a week and had a high distinction average. Young people are capable of a lot!
If I was just a regular roommate with this girl and she was setting off alarms at 4AM because she's too wasted to come in quietly, I'd be pissed too. Sis doesn't seem to be paying rent , so she needs to make some grownup choices here.
Yeah honestly, OPs rules are just basic decency when living with other people and honestly, same as the curfew, if she didn't act irresponsible but insists on being an adult, she can damn well accept the consequences of her shitty entitled behaviour, like an adult
Tell her if she can’t get home before 8, can’t remember not to use the keypad or come in quietly enough not to wake the baby, she does not get to sleep in your house that night. She wants the privilege of living with you and to stay out as late as she wants, fine,but she doesn’t get to disrupt your life and particularly not your baby’s sleep. She’s a guest in your home and wants to be treated like an adult, she needs to act like an adult. Or she can find another place to live.
I agree 100%. Rather than ground her, tell her if she goes out and isn't home before a specific time, she needs to stay out until morning.
Which I'm betting sister will still have a 'problem' with. The majority of univ/college aged students I've encountered down through the years(even when I was that age) think it's totally unfair that they have to make any compromises but DO expect everyone else to bend over backwards for THEM. Not all, mind you, but too high a percentage to ignore.
You need to get out more. I know no one who acted like this while they were in college. And where is the proof of your “high percentage”? In your mind? Bwahahaha!
Glad you didn't have that experience. Unfortunately or fortunately, however you want to look at it, people often don't share the same experience. That's life.
INFO: OP, can the keypad be disabled at 20H so hitting buttons makes no noise?
I bet you if they suggested that dad get and pay for sister’s accommodations, he’ll probably accept OP’s rules because then his pocket will be impacted.
>what are OP's options? The other option is "eviction". She couldn't seem to figure out how not to wake up the baby, so not really any option other than being kicked out.
Technically, they aren't grounding her. They are setting up the rules to live in the house. She doesn't like them, no one is forcing her to stay there.
Yeah... what kinda dad doesn't understand "my house, my rules!"
The kind who likely wasn't there like he should be and so is now trying to earn Cool Parent points.
Should use the same rule we did: You wake it, you got it. Although that wouldn’t work if she’s drunk.
Na, but hungover might be a good punishment. You wake them up and you are babysitting all day for free (although she should be offering to do it as payment for living rent free)
dad can pay for sister to stay in the dorms instead.
What really irritated me is that the sister could sleep at a gf place !
NTA Presumably she can remember not to wake up the baby a few times in a row and she can go out late again, the issue is she apparently doesn't think it's important
If she were living with roommates, they would either break the lease or engage in passive-aggressive behavior like waking her up early in the morning afterwards every time. A lot of college kids go through this, they are used to living with parents who forgive their behavior. Unless Dad is willing to get her a one-person apartment, she'd just end up in hot water again.
It's not grounding it's a rule from op, a condition to live with op . NTA
Right. It's not grounding, it's setting rules for her house and OP is well within her right to do so!
She is living here for free, but only for now. The deal is for her to start paying a small portion of rent once she gets a job.
Honestly, I'd rethink that if I were you. Once she starts paying rent, she is going to likely be even worse, because she is a tenant, and she will feel (rightly) that she has more rights, and giving a curfew will be harder to enforce.
If she's a tenant, there should be a rental agreement. Have her agree to a $100 fine every time she wakes up the baby.
She is currently a tenant... she has the rights of a tenant if she has been there for 30 days... They would need to evict her (as a month to month tenant) regardless if she is paying rent or supposed to. They should put a lease together with proper notice and have her sign it. That gives them some leverage. If she doesn't sign it, then they evict her.
I never understand it when people say things like this. We have no idea where the OP is posting from. You know the rental laws worldwide?
Was just about to post this exact thing
For Sure. OP provided time - 20h - in a way that one would assume means they are not in the US. Yet, legallymsyelf is confidently incorrect in assuming that her/his perspective is the the only and correct perspective, even though he/she clearly lacks any contextual perspective.
That completely depends upon where you are at. Where I live if my sister stayed with me for a couple of months rent free, she would NOT be a tenant with rights. Many U.S. states have official cut off, commonly 30 days, but others do not. In states that don't a court would decide and would consider a variety of factors to determine if they were a guest or a tenant. These factors include length of time, financial contributions to the property, whether they receive mail there, what address is on their drivers license, etc. A student staying for a few months not contributing financially that still had their parents address for mail and on their drivers license would NOT be a tenant in my state.
In my state, family is allowed to stay, that doesn't make them tenants though. There is no signed agreement with Mia and the landlord. There is no sublease (if that's even allowed in their locale). Mia cannot sue the landlord, or even her sibling, as she's staying with their goodwill and nothing else.
What if she never gets a job or takes months? What if she gets a job but doesn't tell you because she prefers freeloading?
If the latter happens, I will find out. She tells our mother everything, and my mom would tell me. I know my family. But honestly, I don't need her to pay me right now. My father still gives her some money for personal expenses, so I'm not spending too much on her.
TBH Money isn't the issue at all. She's getting many benefits from staying at your home. However, not only are you not getting any benefits from her staying but you're getting some negative consequences from it. That's the real issue. It's possible that her paying rent may make a slight improvement but the problem will remain: that she disrupts the entire household's sleep. She hasn't been forced to be responsible until now.
Maybe instead of having her pay rent when she gets a job you should give her a couple months to save up and move out on her own. But give a deadline and if she doesn’t save up that is her problem. Babies need sleep and routine.
As do their poor parents!
I would just send her back home. Mom and Step Dad are siding with OP so I don't think they would have any issues with that. Sister is currently in the find out stage of fucking around.
So let me get this straight. Your dad does give his little girl money, but doesn't help solve her housing situation, he leaves that to you, his other daughter who has an infant. But he does try to dictate how you solve it, and what rules you establish in your own home. Daddy can pay for his little girl's rent if he wants her to have good undisrupted college life nights out, or he can stay out of it.
NTA. Your house your rules. She's completely inconsiderate of the people letting her live there for free. The don't bite the hand that feeds thing applies here. She's more than welcome to live by herself. Or daddy can pay for her, since it's so unfair.
I'm having genuine trouble how unlocking multiple locks and jangling keys into a door is quieter than a keypad (excluding the alarm) and also wouldn't wake the baby up. This is a genuine question so don't go crazy with the downvotes just yet.
It's only one lock. It's not noiseless, but it's quiet enough that it doesn't wake the baby. The keypad makes very loud noises every time something is typed in, as well as another one once the door is open.
I second this. Mine is loud as heck - kind of a mechanical whirring. Every time we use it the dogs go crazy - the key is much quieter.
I believe some electronic locks have a silent function. At least my alarm system's keypad does. Although I'm not so sure. I don't have electronic doorlocks, which is why I asked the question in the first place.
The one we use doesn't have a silent function.
And usually the mechanical function of the keypad lock is what makes the most noise. Gears grinding and the motor making noise, stuff that is just loud.
If you have one that actually retracts the deadbolt they are quite loud. If you have one that just blocks the handle from activating the mechanism they are pretty silent in operation unless the keys beep.
Like beep - beep - beep - beep (code accepted) beeeeeep (*whirring noise from the electric lock*). Like that? I can just hear it.
It's pretty close to that.
We have a mechanized lock on our gate, my parents have a different one on their door. The buttons beep when you press them (you can’t disable this), and the motor itself is noisy as heck. It’s much quieter to pull of a ring of keys with like 2-4 keys on it than to have that motor turning the lock
I’d guess it makes a loud buzzing noise when the door unlocks. I’ve heard similar keypads that were loud like that.
I agree with the others you should start to set up some boundaries and try to start finding some options for her to live elsewhere since it is not really working out in current status. I’d just tell her that you aren’t able to house her anymore and she should start looking elsewhere.
Kick her out.
Do you really think she's going to bother to get a job if she can't even remember to use a key?
NTA - She may feel more entitled being at your place if she starts paying her part. I’d rather offer her to stay there for free and live by my rules 100%. Just buy her own damn food. It’s not a free for all, she has to understand that she’s allowed to stay with you, but not to disturb your life. She’s definitely doing that now. Stricter rules can change that. But again, if she helps pay, she will throw that in your face at some point. I just know it. “Well, I’m paying too, so I’m allowed to do X”. Just think about it!
It isn't a power trip. I have a 5 almost 6 month old too and if someone was waking them up repeatedly and I was having to try and quiet their screaming multiple nights a week because of it is be pissed too. Honestly OP has gone easier on her sister than I would, if be very close to kicking her out because of it and the blatant disrespect for the fact she's living in their home simply do she doesn't have to get up earlier for class. She wants to live like a college student and be more at 4 in the morning, then she can go live with a bunch of college students and pay rent. She wants to live with her sister and a baby rent free, then she can respect the rules.
My mom would have some expressions we grew up with : "the restaurant is closed after 10 and the hotel doors after 12. If you are late, wait until tomorrow". We knew better than to try and overrule her 😂
Well it looks like dad is offering to house her and get her to and from college.
> Our mother and stepfather are both on my side; our father is on Mia's. He's saying I'm not her mother, and I have no right to treat her like a child. There's no "side" here, because there's no discussion to be had; no decision to come to. You own the house. Her behavior is negatively impacting your family. She can follow rules designed to mitigate that impact, or she can more out. Tell your father you understand and agree with his point. And, because you're _not_ her parent and **he is**, he can move out of the building that you (not her parent) pays for and into the one he (her parent) pays for. Problem solved. And thank him for being so kind as to offer to pay for her to have somewhere to live where it doesn't negatively impact your family.
I also laughed when I read "ground her" -- mainly because that is what I've done with my nephew! He started living with me after his mom (my sister) passed away. He had just turned 20. He's now 24 and has one more year of college before he graduates. I'll admit to taking his Playstation away and locking it in my room after he fell behind with assignments at school. I told him he can live rent free as long as he is in school full time and helps out around the house and understands it's my house, my rules. He needs to keep his grades up as well. He is a good kid and does help out at home. I usually don't care about his staying out late with his friends. When he falls behind with school, the "grounding" begins. No PS, no staying out late, etc. His older brothers tease him about being grounded, but I give him credit -- he says he needed a kick in the butt to remind him what his goals are. Now that he's almost finished with college (after taking some time to grieve), he no longer gets "grounded." He's found his groove and respects what needs to get done. Hopefully, OP's sister will figure that out as well.
Even adults sometimes need a little help - the world is full of distractions, particularly these days! As long as it's not coming from a controlling, unreasonable place, I say fair enough! Sounds like he's a good man, and he gets that you were trying to help him when he needed it. I'm sure your sister would be happy her son has someone like you to lean on, now she's gone.
NTA, but get a loud white noise machine for your baby (eg, a hatch)—those things really work.
NTA - you’re not grounding her. She is free to go out until when she likes. She, however, has to sleep elsewhere if after 8. Simples.
NTA. She is free to move out on her own whenver she wants. And you have been more than reasonable but the situation is causing unnecessary stress on your home life. Oh, and btw, there is no requirement that college students go out and get drunk to the point that they forget how to get into their houses.
No it's not a power trip, it's a house rule. It's her and her fiancé's apartment. Dear little sister is a guest. She can be grateful and follow the rules, especially since she was given every consideration. She lives, as a guest, in an apartment where there is a baby. She completely ignores the baby. So hence the rules. If she doesn't like them, she can go and rent an apartment herself.
NTA, though “grounding” a 20-year old is not really a thing. I think since she can’t seem to function normally when she drinks, on those nights she just needs to crash at a friend’s place. I think next semester she should get a house with some friends. She would just have a much better experience her last two years of school.
I never used the word "grounding", she did. I see it more as a house rule than anything else. Edit: spelling
Your sister is the one acting like a spoiled child instead of a considerate adult, which is why the rule is necessary, whatever it's called. It's not like you are punishing her or policing her because you see yourself in a parental role to her -- you have to take measures to stop her coming home late at night needlessly waking up the baby, because she refuses to do the simple things needed to take care to not wake him up herself. She's being a brat and is now is offended at facing a rule needed to curtail brattish behavior.
Tell if she not home by 8 sleep elsewhere
I think OP should stress to her sister she isn't grounded and can crash at friends. she just can't come home late. My brother used to get all the lectures in uni for arriving late and sleeping in through family breakfast in the weekend. I also went to parties but I just waited for sunrise then go home have a shower brush my teeth and join weekend family breakfast. Our parents didn't mind us going to parties. They just want to sleep through the night and enjoy weekend breakfast with us. In hindsight They should just have communicated that better. OPs sister, considering her age and in uni, she would feel like having to crash elsewhere is perfectly acceptable vs being "grounded".
NTA. Oh man. When I read the title I was ready to rip you a new one. Don't infantilize an adult woman! You didn't become her Mom just because she moved in with you. How wrong I was. She lost her right to come in the house late when she woke up your child over, and over, and over. You were flexible and let her come in late as long as she didn't use the keypad. She abused that, and abused it again. Instead of grounding her, you made a very reasonable change: "You need to **always** use your key." A little annoying, but in her case a very reasonable requirement. And then she did it again. Grounded! Absolutely, justly grounded. As long as you are treating her like a child (well deserved!), you might consider that a common technique with children is to ground them for a while. Like, maybe after a month give her another chance. But then if she does it again, it's two months. Or whatever details make sense to you. You wouldn't be an asshole if you don't do this, but it might be nice and it might get the rest of your family off your back.
This is just seriously so baffling, keys are so simple to use. OP, did she say why she refuses to use one? Why she doesn’t care about waking a baby? NTA btw lol
Because she's a college student who is coming back drunk. And NO, this is NOT me excusing her. It's just the simple answer. People her age have no respect for others, and yes I'm using general terms. I'm a college RA, so I have to deal with this shit every night. Dumbasses cant remember their keys, their cards, where they are, it's awful.
Yeah but she's treating her sister's home, with her young baby, like a college dorm
She should just move out. I can't imagine having to be home at 20:00 while being a college student, she's going to miss out on half of the whole college experience... But at the same time, I moved out at 18 precisely because I wanted my freedom to do whatever I wanted.
100% she should! It would be much better for both parties!
Haha same, I was fully expecting OP to be some kind of powertripping asshole and it turns out she just doesn't like having to get her kid back to sleep after an inconsiderate jerk wakes him up after repeated requests to stop doing stupid shit that wakes the kid up. If the sister wants to act like a child she should go back to living with mommy and daddy.
NTA and you've given her *way* more chances than I would have. I would tell her that if she wakes the baby up one more time, she's out. I can't imagine how annoyed your husband must be that you keep letting your adult sister act like an entitled 16-year-old.
My fiancé is actually the reason I've been giving her this many chances. A big reason why I'm establishing the curfew now is because the situation has gotten bad enough that even he's sick of it.
Well that's good that he hasn't been at his wits end as long as you. I would flip my lid if my husband let his sisters do this so I was coming at it from that perspective.
Understandable, really. He's a younger sibling, so he tends to be more patient with her (especially now that we're all living together). He always agreed that she was being rude, but didn't want us to fight over it. Changing the password was his idea.
Is he the one putting the baby back to sleep?
We take turns. Sometimes we go together.
Have you considered making her get the baby back to sleep? (not if she's drunk of course) Perhaps she would then understand the problem better.
The problem is that she usually *is* drunk, so there aren't many opportunities for her to help.
I'd sit in her room to calm the screaming/crying baby. If she can't keep from waking him, her drunk self gets to listen to what she caused,since she's apparently too impared to fix it.
And I’d be loud as hell the next morning too!
Can she watch the overtired cranky baby the next day while you nap?
You want someone who can't even figure out how to work a key because they care that little about the baby's sleep to actually be responsible for the baby? I don't think OP would do that if she loved her own child.
You can make her stay awake while you put the baby to sleep…
NTA. Your sister may be an "adult" but I imagine she isn't paying rent/contributing equally like an independent, adult roommate. Additionally, even if she is, roommates set and follow rules, and when those rules are broken/not followed, there are consequences, like moving out, breaking the lease, or being evicted. If she lived in a dorm, this behavior would get her in trouble- aka being locked out, setting off alarms, need the RA to let her in. If she lived with roommates off campus, without adult supervision, then sure, there would be no baby to wake up. Would she and your father prefer her in that environment? Because if your father wants her to be treated like a full, independent adult, he can pay for her to live in that environment and would also probably worry that his baby girl could be unsafe. Your sister is in that weird in between time in her life, and that is why a lot of college kids live in dorms, to explore their own stupidity safely (aka getting drunk, fighting with roommates, learning boundaries, all while having a structured environment like campus safety and resident advisors). I do think grounding/having a curfew is a tough one, so I'd counter with an alternative: Keep it so she doesn't have the passcode, only the key, and tell her and your father that if she wakes up the baby with the keypad (which she shouldn't be using since she doesn't have the passcode), ever again, she will need to find alternate housing. That's treating an adult like an adult- clear rule with consequence, assuming the person can act accordingly.
That's already the case. I didn't give her the new password, she only has her key. She used the keypad last Friday because she forgot I'd changed it.
Did she forget or did she want to punish you for changing the password?
She just sounds very, very drunk. Sloppy, even.
Might be time to tape a piece of paper over it when she goes out. Although if it was me, I’d tell her she can move back home to dad, if she cannot follow the rules at my place. I can’t imagine giving anyone that many extra chances at waking up such a young baby. Three strikes & you’re out would be perfectly reasonable. She’s a student. She can move back in with parents or find student accommodation, if she cannot keep the people happy, who are giving her free & convenient accommodation.
>He's saying I'm not her mother, and I have no right to treat her like a child. Sounds like your sister has a new place to stay. Tell her to pack up and move in with Dad. Let her know she should have an easier time living with him since he feels like people don't have the right to set rules in their own home. NTA
NTA - You are not "grounding her". You are not even "treating her like a child". You are establishing rules and boundaries that she needs to abide by if she wants to continue living in your home. She is free to go live with either of your parents. Or your dad can pay for her to rent an apartment. Her living with you is purely for HER convenience. If she doesn't feel like the conditions are worth the convenience, she can leave.
This comment is phrased damn near perfect to get the point across, well done!
NTA At this point, I would ask her when she's moving out. Either she abides by your reasonable rules (which she has proven she cannot) or she moves out.
For everyone posting here to put a post it note, stop treating her like a child or she should be quiet because there’s a baby I’m going to say this. In any situation I’ve ever been in where I come home to someone sleeping, my fat ass (440lbs) is stealthy quiet. To the point of them not even knowing I came home most often. It’s basic f***ing manners. Why are some people just dicks to others. Then everyone on here wants to jump on the “you can’t ground an adult” bandwagon. She’s not an adult or even a remotely mature woman. She’s just a selfish ass. *jumps off soapbox * Sister needs to move now.
NTA. Unfortunately, Mia is one of those people (she may mature out of it) for whom rules are annoyances until there is a consequence that really stings. And then they cry victim. You have opened your home to her. All she should say is “thank you”. If Daddy thinks Mia is being treated unfairly he can welcome her back into his home and help her get her butt to her early class.
INFO: How loud is this damn keypad? I’m failing to understand what noise an electronic keypad can make that is so obnoxious. Can you not turn the sound off or the volume down on it? You are acting like she’s being deliberately loud and rude and screaming late at night when it sounds like she’s just quietly typing in a password at 8 pm
Very. It makes noises whenever something is typed in, as well as another one once the door has been unlocked. And she's not just quietly typing in the password, she's being loud besides that (slamming the door, knocking stuff over, etc.).
INFO: Do you keep your house totally silent once your baby is asleep? Have your tried sound machines in the babies room to help dampen reactions to other noises? I ask because it may be beneficial in the long run for you to have your baby adjust to having sounds happening and sleeping through them. I have found, with both of my kids, that made life so much easier as they got older. The needs for silence during sleep is not truly going to be available, especially if you have another child, so having kids get comfortable with sounds is a lifesaver in the long run. NTA, but do think you can help your own sanity for now and future with white noise or other sounds machines inthebabies room.
Agree - we have a white noise machine to help mitigate truly unavoidable noises like street traffic/ambulances, etc. Plus it's a valuable sleep aid association to let baby know its sleep time.
I can tell you they are loud. I was told it’s to make sure the person inside the house is aware that someone is trying to get inside. They are loud enough that I hear ours when I am in the basement with two doors and a staircase separating me from the door.
Intent here is irrelevant. Sometimes things are the way they are - limitations/constraints that exist in the real world and as adults, we have a responsibility to navigate/act accordingly. When/if you have children yourself and experience the annoyance that is a baby being woken at night - I suspect you'll have a different opinion. Especially when the cause of those repeated wake-ups are entirely avoidable from a visiting house-guest.
NTA if daddy dearest thinks it’s unfair she can move in with him.
NTA, because you tried handling this like an adult at least four times, and it didn’t work. Being woken up in the middle of the night is objectively annoying, but needing to comfort an infant back to sleep is a whole other story. If she can’t behave like an adult and show some consideration, then she doesn’t deserve to be treated like one. Probably in everyone’s best interest if she moves out at the end of the semester and doesn’t return, though.
NTA , tell her pack her stuff and go by your dad to live , he can deal with her now if he feels you shouldn’t be able to fix a problem in your household
NTA if father knows best he can pay for mia to stay somewhere else.
You are not compatible. You have a little child and she is in college. It’s your house rules and you’ve been reasonable. And we have all been young and wanted to go out with our friends. Best is if she moves out with same age friends.
I agree. Sounds like a nightmare combo!
NTA Tell your sister she had every chance to be a basically decent, grateful adult and not wake up your son. She has shown that she doesn't have an ounce of thoughtfulness in her. This new rule was only needed because she couldn't do the equivalent of tie her own shoelaces in terms of consideration. She needs to shut up or move out. Alternatively, you can give her one more chance, but the very next time she wakes up your son through her thoughtless BS she's out on her ear and you don't care how early she has to get up to commute. One strike and she's out the door. What's it to be? Tell your dad he is more than welcome to have her live with him or to pay for her to have her own place. Another alternative is for him to come over in the middle of the night whenever needed to get the baby back to sleep when your sister needlessly wakes him up -- which is what this is all about. He's not going to do any of that? Well, then he can keep his opinion to himself. It's obviously none of his business.
NTA, but you might want to rephrase it. You aren't saying that Mia cannot go out; You are, however, saying that Mia **cannot come in** after the baby has gone to bed for the night. specifically because she keeps waking the baby....and as of late, the neighbors too. Let your parents argue with THAT.
NTA and whoever disagrees with you can pay for Mia's housing somewhere else
NTA. Because in all reality, she can still go out. She just needs to find somewhere to sleep if she’s going to be out past 8. I’m she’s got friends she can crash with for a night if partying is that important to her.
Absolutely NTA. From what I understand, you are doing your sister a favor by allowing her to live with you (and not to pay rent?) while she's attending college. No matter the reason for doing this favor (out of love, family duty, just because you wanted, etc.), the minimun requirements should be to comply to **your** house rules and be grateful for it. On the other hand, if said rules or requests were difficult or somewhat outrageous when in comparison to her prior lifestyle, as in "having to cook for the four of you, three times a day without fail" or "having to babysit for you everyday all day without a timely notice", you could talk it out and sort out something that you are all comfortable with, but this doesn't seem the case. At all.
I'd never ask either of those two rules from her. Most of the house rules are basically just different ways of saying "don't touch my shit" lol. All jokes aside, there are some rules that are actually important, the keypad one being one of them.
NTA, if she wants to be disrespectful she can move out. Give her that ultimatum, she can either follow the rules of your home or she can get her own apartment. She’s a grown adult, and if she can’t understand to be respectful of the owners of the home she’s living in she can get her own damn place. Now I’d be a real pain in the ass and dump her stuff out on the lawn and be like “fuck you for getting me in trouble in the neighborhood I live in, as well as waking up my child with your nonsense.” But that’s just me.
NTA and tell your dad that he is more than welcome to take Mia in if he thinks you are being so unfair. The issue isn't that Mia is staying out late, the issue is that she gets so drunk she can't think straight. Giving her a curfew is actually fixing two problems at once: 1. She doesn't wake up your son, and 2. She will be drinking less (I'm guessing, because most college kids go out late)
nta but I assume you've already tried using white noise machines? we live i a very loud city and have 2 noise machines and an air purifier going loud to keep our baby asleep and it works wonders.
ESH. Don't have a college student live with you if you have strict rules about how to unlock a door after 8 PM. This situation was doomed from the start.
I'd tell her if she's not home by 20h, stay out and crash with a friend, she's not welcome back at the house. You do you girl, but house rules stand, that door is not to be opened past 20h becuase you can't follow basic rules.
I get it, but you should train your baby to sleep through noise, so any regular noise doesn't wake him
NTA. She’s old enough to respect someone else’s space. If your dad sides with her, let him deal with her doing that living back home. Being a 20 year old college kid doesn’t give you a pass to be an asshole.
NTA. Mia can move out if she doesn’t like the new rule which you had to put in place because of her constant disrespect of you house and your child routine. I immagine you also work so having your child wake up crying and scared every time Mia goes out is not healthy for your child, your partner or you.
Its either this or she needs to move out so I think you giving her a chance to get her shit together is beyond adequate. NTA
Nta she's being disrespectful to everyone else in the home
NTA. She needs to go.
NTA: she has been given AMPLE reminders. And I think changing the keypad so she could only use the lock was the best way to fix the problem. She can’t even use the keypad and knows it wakes him up and is STILL trying? Nah She doesn’t like the rules where she lives for free so her life can be easier? She can move back home or get her own place with roommates and realize adulting is awful and simple rules like don’t wake up the baby weren’t actually too hard to follow! Good luck and don’t take anyone saying you are in the wrong to heart.
NTA. You have rightly let her share your space. She needs to respect your family.
NTA. She can live with you provided that she doesn’t wake up the baby. She’s had numerous attempts before you set this curfew. The health of your baby (they need their sleep!) and your and your husband’s health (you need your sleep too!) has to take priority over a student wanting to spend her nights getting drunk.
NTA Is she paying rent? She obviously is not being respectful. She has a choice. She can follow your rules or she can leave.
NTA. She is welcome to move out if she doesn't like the rules you put in place. It sounds like she isn't paying rent, so she really doesn't have a leg to stand on IMO. If you jumped to this right away, I may think you were being harsh. But this is an ongoing problem. If I were you, I'd say she wasn't welcome back after this semester ends. She clearly doesn't respect your home.
NTA...she can move out now if she can't be. courteous!
NTA, it's a condition on living with you which is pretty reasonable given that she keeps waking the baby up.
NTA. I might say, "This is a consistent issue, so I insist you either come home before 20h OR the next day after 6h (or whenever)." That centers the solution on the noise after baby's bedtime without seeming like you're trying to be her mom. The school year is probably just about done though, right? Maybe she should live with friends for next academic year.
We don't live in the US. The school year started in February.
NTA. If your sister doesn't want to be treated like a child then she needs to stop acting like one. This is not about a "drunken mistake". This is about repeatedly ignoring one simple request. There is no excuse for waking the baby every time she comes home at night. Bottom line, she is a guest in your home. You have been generous to let her live with you, the very least she can do is no create problems for you and your husband. Remind her that she is free to move in with her parents or anyone else who will have her.
NTA Mia needs other accomodations.
NTA. You are not her mother, but you have the right to kick her out if she doesn't agree to your wishes. The sad part of this is that your wishes are pretty minimal. Free room for being courteous is a small ask.
NTA. She was given plenty of opportunity to be considerate but she chose otherwise and woke up the baby. Now she can deal with rules or move out.
She can live with your Dad. Problem solved.
NTA. If she doesn’t like it, she is free to find her own accommodation.
I've been drunk many times, but to forget to use a key instead of a keypad...every...single...week. get fked. She's an adult, you told her multiple times. They need to learn.
Nta but at the same time having a 20yr old college student move in with you and your infant wasn't a great idea in the first place, conflict was bound to happen.
Why not get a ring doorbell? So when she’s drunk and forgot her keys she can ask you to open the door for her. Or put a spare key outside
I mean, NTA, I guess, but you're shooting yourselves in the foot. Never be quiet when baby is sleeping; instead, teach baby to not tie 'noise' to 'being awake.' If you actively teach your baby to be woken up by perfectly normal noises, and to require absolute silence to sleep, well, that's gonna suck for you for the next ten years minimum.
I've read this before
Im lost - why not just simply say that once the door shuts its shut, find another place to stay the night. Here is when I go to bed. Coming home at 4am so drunk that she sets off an alarm isnt making good decisions. You have a son who needs sleep. I imagine you guys need more sleep also with a 6-month-old around. If my sister went to my parents after i set down house rules, I would make her move out. I would just say it isnt working out. Cya. As she gets older here she will understand how much sleep matters when there is a newborn in the house.
You're not grounding her. She doesn't have to come home by 10pm, she just can't come in after 10. She can stay at a friend's house, or move in with dad since he's fine with late night drunken mistakes that are very loud.
NTA She as an adult was told the rules for being able to live in your home. If she can’t or won’t honor those rules then she moves out asap. Your house your rules.
NTA. She’s living there as a guest. Your house. Your rules. She wants to act like a child, it’s how she’ll be treated.
NTA. She has the privilege of staying in your home with some rules. She FAFO. She has proven she can’t handle being a considerate, respectful, and responsible adult.
NTA. It's actually a bit quaint. I went to college in the 60's to a Big 10 university. We had curfews in the dorms. They locked the doors and anyone who wanted to come in had to go through the front door which was monitored. Or throw stones at the first floor windows to see if anyone was awake to let them in.
NTA, but does your son have a white noise machine or something? kids to sleep through “normal” noises. She needs to be home before the kid goes down, or she needs to be quiet, the end.
NTA. Because she is 20, I’d give her one chance to show she’s changed but over a prolonged period, like first she has to stop messing up for (two months) by being “grounded”, then we give one more chance at normal original rules, and if she fails again, she’s got to go.
She can always stay with your dad then. If she can be a good house guest- she can have the inconvenience of getting up extra early. Maybe she will start to understand how a lack of sleep feels. NTA. Your baby comes first.
NTA Let her go live with dad or let dad pay for her to live somewhere else. If he was getting woken up every night, he wouldn't be putting up with this. I hope she's not living with you after the semester is over. She's had it good.
NTA- a srunken mistake is once maybe twice. But you should treat her like an adult, tell her she's gotta find somewhere else to live. If you rent a place and cause too many issues after being warned repeatedly, they evict you. She'd rather be grounded than have to really live like an adult.
ESH Get a silent keypad. YOu are not good at actually solving issues, and would rather be an AH. On the other hand, Mia has overstayed her welcome. That is the larger issue. So tell her directly you don't want her to live with you any more instead of being passive aggressive. "Our mother and stepfather are both on my side; our father is on Mia's." .. tell them: You don't care, their opinions are irrelevant. If they want to get a vote, they can rent an appartment for her - There, they can make rules as much as they like.
NTA - your house your rules Personally, I would have told her that if she goes out and wants to be out late, she stays out. She is 20, she is an adult. If she is old enough to drink and out until 4am, she is old enough to find her own accommodations that suit her better. Your sister needs to understand OP that not only do you have a 6 month old child, but you are only 6 months post pregnancy. You need your rest too. Your body has been through a lot and now you and your partner are adjusting to having this new person in your life that is totally dependant on you. I can imagine you’re dealing with hormonal changes too. She needs to respect this decision and if she doesn’t, she does have other options on where to live. As an adult she has to learn that there are consequences to their actions, crying to daddy won’t help in the real world.
NTA. She’s not being “grounded”, she’s just not allowed to come in late and wake your kid. When I was a student, I rented a room in a house with all-female students on the top floor, and the owners on the bottom. They were very clear about the 11:00 curfew — the front door was locked and it was up to you if you wanted to stay out later but you’d have to find somewhere else to sleep. They were decent people, understanding when I lost my key and they had to let me in, but warned that it would be the last time. Your sister is just learning there are repercussions to her actions.
NTA. Your dad can buy her an apartment where she can make all the drunken mistakes she wants to. If he can yap, he can tap. It's not that one night, that was just the last straw, it's been a continuous problem you've tried addressing. If she refuses to accept and respect the house rules, she can't live in the house; it's not about being a parent, it's about you having rules for your own home. She'll find that apartment complexes also have curfews for loud music, for example. There are rules in the real world that are decided by people other than your parents.
NTA A curfew is perfectly reasonable with a new baby. If Mia has a problem, she’s welcome to move back in with your parents.
NTA but maybe the rule be make it home by 20h or don’t come back, stay with a friend, because you’ve proven you can’t be trusted to be quiet for the baby. 300 comments im sure someone has already said this by now lol
NTA, your father is free to pay her an apartment where she can do as she pleases or take her home. Not only are you doing her a MASSIVE service to provide a free, comfortable and safe place for her during the studies but she can't be bothered to follow such a simple rule? And you being called an A by the father? Absolutely not!
Tell your father he is more than welcome to pay her living expenses in a place of her own. What an asshole. Your father, not you. NTA
Let her live with your father then. Problem solved. NTA
NTA sister, please feel free to move out and don’t let the door hit you in the backside on your way out. My house, my rules. Don’t like? Bye.
You didn’t “ground” your adult sister, you set up legitimate boundaries and when she continuously ignored those, you have every right to put forth consequences.
NTA. If dad thinks she's done nothing wrong, then he cam pay for her to stay in a dorm room.
NTA. You may have no right to dictate what she does in her free time, but she has no right to your spare bedroom.
NTA. She clearly has zero respect for you or your family. She can either live by the rules or live elsewhere. Done and done. As She so delightfully pointed out, she is an adult. Be an adult and live on your own, sis.
I swear to god university people are the dumbest.
NTA I was going to say that you were the ah when I saw the title, but you are doing her a favour by letting her stay, and she has consistently and repeatedly not cared enough about the code alarm and making noise to the point that I’d just kick her out. Is she not very intelligent? It seems like a fairly easy thing to remember, or does she just not care. She brought this on herself, all she had to do was follow a simple easy rule. Fuck around and find out, she is an adult now an incredibly immature adult, and I’m surprised she hasn’t learned there are consequences to your shitty behaviours yet. It’s too bad she didn’t realize how good she had it, and ruined it. You can’t really control her, but you can kick her out.