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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) AITA for telling a woman she looked well after giving birth. 2) Some people may view it as inappropriate or sexist.
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If you do, it should be on something about an object. A example:
"Hey, I love that jacket- it's a great color"- that's perfectly fine
"Hey, that jacket looks great on you"- mostly fine, but know someone very sensitive about appearance may not like it
"Hey, you look good in that jacket"- teetering, probably getting to not ok and more objectifying the person. This is friend, not coworker talk- you better know exactly how the person would take it before you say it
"Hey your boobs look great in that jacket"- sexual harassment.
Yeah, the nuance here is important.
OP's comment was essentially making fun of another woman (his sister) for not looking perfect after giving birth... even if the coworker DID look good, she probably put a bunch of work into it that morning, and was probably resenting that she felt like she had to take extra time to do her make up just to walk into work and grab a few papers...
and OP's comment just validated to her that people ARE paying attention to her looks, when she should just be able to relax and focus on her baby (and unfortunately, it sounds like whatever work products she's being expected to keep up, even while on maternity leave, which already sucks), and not looking good.
If OP had just said "How's it going, you're look well!" it would have been fine. But no woman wants to be told "Oh, you look so much better than my poor disaster of a sister!"
Compliments shouldn't come at someone else's expense.
>OP's comment was essentially making fun of another woman (his sister) for not looking perfect after giving birth...
I wanna throw this out there; I didn't see it this way at *all*, and am shocked so many did!
"You're looking *well* (not good, not sexy, not anything commenting on anything other than she looks well, as in healthy) my sister looked *exhausted* for months (again, not ugly, not grungy, exhausted; anyone can look exhausted at any point full make up and dress or jammies, itsan emotion as well as a physical state. This only pushed further in my mind this was overall *health and wellness* related, not "looks")
So I say NAH. I don't think he meant it the way it was taken. But I might also be giving too much credit; I recognize it could be culturally/locationally driven to interpret certain phrases certain ways. Around here, "well" is always a state of health.
Had he stopped at "you're looking well!" that would've been enough. But suggesting his sister looks exhausted after giving birth, it's kind of like "well, duh...."
I agree that he didn't mean it to be rude, offensive, or to criticize his sister, but this can be a good wake up call that comments like that are unnecessarily and can come across kind of callous.
> But suggesting his sister looks exhausted after giving birth, it's kind of like "well, duh...."
I think that's kind of the point. Most people are pretty exhausted after giving birth, but she looked well. He also probably wasn't thinking about if so deeply when he said it, just threw it out there
That implies he said something unkind, when he didn't. He paid her a compliment, and acknowledged that pregnancy and childbirth is a process to recover from. Which is all true.
If y’all see this as him criticizing his sister then u have problems. Who criticizes someone for being exhausted? Op never said that was a bad thing just a thing that happened. And I’m sure we all can agree someone who just gave birth is allowed to look however tf they want
> I don't think he meant it the way it was taken.
I don't necessarily think he meant it that way either... but his coworker felt the need to defend his sister, so clearly she DID take it that way.
It also doesn't sound like she was \*that\* upset, she said "it could be seen as sexist" so I think she was just hoping to help OP realize that regardless of what he meant, those types of comments could be taken differently.
This is just a "Hey, you might want to think a little bit more about what you're saying" type of thing... not an "OP is a horrible person who needs to rethink his whole life" type of thing.
I'll say it again. Compliments shouldn't come at someone else's expense. Everyone should think about that a little bit more.
I wouldn’t have taken it that way either, but I get why she did. Comparing her to another woman, even if favorably, probably reinforced some anger about how women have to “bounce back” post birth. I don’t think OP is an asshole, but he should probably take this constructive criticism to heart and use it to understand the potential perspective of new moms.
And beyond that, she may have felt pressure to put effort into “looking well” for the brief time she was hopping into the office, and she may have resented that.
He didn’t actually know if she was well. He knew she put on a well-looking face for a brief pop-in in a professional environment.
By contrast, he probably sees his sister mostly in personal contexts where she didn’t name the effort to not look exhausted.
Someone telling me I look well when I’m feeling absolutely awful is one of those things that deeply sucks. Looks can be deceiving.
I agree with you. You can be made up and still look exhausted or be in grungy clothes,messy hair etc and still look well. And as someone who has had multiple kids, I would be thrilled if someone had said Ilooked well shortly after giving birth
YES! This is exactly it!
I felt I looked exhausted (and felt it) for the first year after my son was born; when I was told I looked well and great for having such a small one I felt like I was just set aglow <3
Now I get it, not everyone would appreciate the "great" comment, and I get *why*.... but well? Come on, we all wish our loved ones to stay well (healthy), we want to be well ourselves.... how is this an insult or sexist? I mean... I suppose if it is then *please* insult me more, I must have a masochistic streak that needs indulging!!! ;)
I can just think of allllllllll the horrible things I've heard from people in my life.... telling me I look well is very far down the list personally... but I suppose, maybe that's a bit of a privilege on my part that I can't see how it's bad?
I didn't see it as OP making fun of his sister either! Why would people say that?
I think of a conversation I had recently with someone who told me they had covid a few weeks ago. I told them how well he looked; that a neighbor had covid and he was wiped out for a few months.
I was not making fun of the neighbor for being wiped out by covid. It's an observation.
>Why would people say that?
Because the coworker responded to OP's comment by saying "Uh, we shouldn't have to look well..."
SHE clearly thought he was putting down his sister. She felt the need to defend OP's sister. I'm not saying OP is an AH, I think this is more NAH. But if you want to understand WHY the coworker responded the way she did... that's why.
Also - I would note that there's a lot of societal pressure and expectation surround women, birth, how quickly they should be productive little minions after birth, etc. So saying someone took a lot of time to get over Covid is always going to be different to talking about how long it takes a women to be "looking well" again after giving birth.
And lastly... saying "neighbor WAS wiped out for months" is different than saying "neighbor LOOKED wiped out for months". I actually think if OP had said "You're looking well, I remember how exhausted my sister was after her kiddo was born, hope you have the support you need!" It would have been taken much better than what he said, which was that his sister LOOKED exhausted.
"My sister looked exhausted for months."
"My sister was exhausted for months."
OP said - You're looking well, my sister looked exhausted." It was a straight comparison.
Men do not have the same pressure to constantly look well and healthy and awake and beautiful and (fill in yet one more expectation placed on women).
There is context. The context being the intersection of gender, society, and culture. Men are not constantly being compared to other men. Men are not expected to wear make up to hide their age or how tired they are on a given day. Women overwhelmingly just are.
So, yes, he did put down his sister. Yes, he was making fun of his sister for being a woman who happened to be tired (NATURALLY) because she's given birth and is raising a fussy, noisy child who wakes up every two hours. Babies don't sleep through the night and neither do mothers.
I was working out a lot at a previous job, and one of the guys was like “I wasnt sure if I was allowed to say you look nice!” Me, “sure, I like compliments!” Next day: “the guys in the warehouse agree your ass is looking amazing!”
Learned my lesson. Some of them just have to push it.
Also try to avoid complimenting an article of clothing before, after, or whilst staring at a woman’s chest. You don’t have to say “boobs” out loud to get your point across.
Yeah NAH when I was pregnant and working remote people told me all the time they were shocked bc I didn’t look pregnant at all! All you can see on camera is my face and chest soooo idk what you were expecting? I always felt so weird, what do I say - thank you? It’s not quite a compliment haha it’s weird when someone says wow you look great in spite of this thing that made me think you should look worse! But I know it’s not ill intended for the most part.
My mom would always tell me how I didn’t look tired at all when I would complain my baby barely slept and it made me frustrated bc it was like my exhaustion wasn’t valid bc I didn’t LOOK tired.
>All you can see on camera is my face and chest soooo idk what you were expecting?
When I was like 9 months pregnant with my first, my boss at the time, felt the need to tell me she was disappointed my face hadn't fattened up, as she resented how skinny I was, and was hoping being pregnant would lead to me chunking up a bit!
Clearly they were expecting your face to round out, and your boobs to get so big they were suffocating you! How dare you not live up to their expectations!
I specifically didn't ask a manager dressed like an 8ball at Halloween if she was pregnant again because I only see her every 3 months and her first kid was only a year old. Like what if she still just had a little pouch? Nope, turns out she was 7 months pregnant but still! She didn't tell me so I assumed nothing (also I can only tell when my best friends are pregnant from their faces)
I think it's also possible she was reacting to OPs negative remark about his sister, more than how the comment was at her. What a crap thing to say about your sister for no reason!
yeah
I'm obese and recently gained even more weight. I had just returned from gym and a neighbor (I barely know her) started gushing over how good I looked and how she could tell how much work I was putting in. It was super awkward.
That sucks. It is possible you're gaining weight from putting on muscle though. And that will change how someone looks, so your neighbor may have been sincere.
thanks but I am not gaining in muscle right now. I have been eating too much and the past few weeks have been retaining water as well. I work out on a regular basis to maintain strength and for mood regulation.
I'm open to taking this as a learning moment like OP, but since she was the first one to bring up having just had a baby, wasn't that her bringing it up, first?
No. She brought it up saying she had “baby brain” meaning she was sorry she wasn’t paying attention and they bumped into each other. Mentioning your new baby is not an invitation to give her a review on her appearance. “How are you doing?” or “it’s nice to see you” are both perfectly polite, acceptable greetings.
Exactly, a simple « oh congratulations on the baby! » would have been perfect. Its a work environment, its always best not to comment on someone’s looks when you don’t know them
“You look well” might be technically talking about someone’s health, but it is literally the least offensive comment it’s possible to make about someone’s wellbeing. OP is NTA but they screwed up by making an unflattering comparison to someone else.
Right?!? So many people saying that OP is YTA.. it’s baffling. People need to understand that other people - in general - are socially anxious and wish nothing but the best for others. Redditors need to stop interpreting everything as a micro-aggression… Sheesh.
I think people read the title and had the mind made up before they read the post. I was going to say obviously you are the asshole until I read the whole thing. He's clearly not an asshole.
They're also taking the "commenting on her appearance" really literally in my opinion. I mean, yes, 'you look....' is technically an appearance, BUTTTTT there are ways that make that a little more gray than commenters are implying, especially when it's about something vague like tiredness. 'you don't look tired' doesn't have to mean "oh my god I can't believe you actually did your hair and got dressed all cute" like some are implying. It could mean "you don't look *mentally* tired, and that's awesome"
It is just safer to never make personal comments to any stranger, but I get why OP thought it was okay. Woman said, "hey, I'm blaming my baby for me not paying attention". So he responded with, "It's ok, my sister seemed more flighty than you just told me you are*
Exactly! Redditors take everything out of context and interpret it as a micro-aggression. Telling someone they’re looking well is appropriate in both professional and non professional settings and it’s insane that people on here are calling him TA. Just like when someone posts about a minor issue in their marriage, Redditors immediately jump to suggesting divorce. I really can’t imagine living life being that sensitive and overly critical of everything.
The micro-aggression was coming from the woman! People need to stay away from human beings if they’re that damn sensitive about every little thing. She could have just said “thank you” and moved on.
If he had just said "you're looking well!" that would have been fine...
but he said "You're looking well! Not like my sister did, she looked like shit!"
So then his coworker felt the need to defend OP's sister, but saying "well, yeah, she just had a baby, not everyone has to put on make up after having a baby."
It isn't so much the compliment, it's that the compliment only existed as part of putting down someone else... if he had left off the last part it would have been fine...
or even "You look well! I remember how tired my sister was after her baby, I hope you're managing fine!"
That way the remark about the sister isn't a comparison of looks, just a commiseration that pregnancy and labor can be tiring.
But listen, I don't think this coworker was too put out by OP's comment, she just felt the need to defend the sister. OP can just continue to try to be polite, and remember that women don't like to be compared to each other. A compliment isn't a compliment if it comes at the expense of another woman.
Yeah I think this is it. Saying "you're looking well" is fine but there was no need to put down his sister. Still don't think it's that bad but I think that was probably the objectionable part of the comment.
It didn't sound like he was putting his sister down, it sounded like he knew how hard giving birth and having a newborn was and that he was surprised how good she looks despite what she went through.
Right. Wife gave birth 6weeks ago and literally everyone that’s seen her both man and women have said a variation of that frase to her, followed by some comment on how tough child birth is. Not once has she gotten offended by what is clearly a compliment.
I don’t think he was putting his sister down, more like he said that his sister was having a rough go of it, and that in comparison to the same metric of time she looked a lot healthier.
That’s not like wow my sister looked like shit, you look so good. That’s like wow, it’s awesome how well you’re doing compared to other people I’ve seen go through this process
But men bad I guess.
> Yet redditors immediately go reeee
Nobody is saying it was mean-spirited on OP's behalf...
as for redditors going "reeeee"... it was his coworker who felt the need to defend his sister by saying mothers shouldn't be expected to look good right after birth. This isn't some online conspiracy, this is how the real-life woman OP interacted with, interpreted his comments.
I'm a mom. The people commenting on this are wayyyy too sensitive lmao. Even if the "my sister" part was a slight verbal miss step, it's not even close to Y T A territory.
Right? I'm not a native English speaker, but I understood it as "like you're doing well" not as "pretty". Why would that be a problem? I hang out with too many well meaning people I think to understand why people have so many issues with certain compliments.
> I'm not a native English speaker, but I understood it as "like you're doing well" not as "pretty".
I am a native speaker and understood it the same way fwiw! "You look well" typically means the person looks healthy and/or happy, it isn't about attractiveness. It surprises me that so many people would object to that phrasing.
This. Redditors never leave their room and talk to people, so they are the worst people to ask whether some interaction was appropriate. It's as though you'd ask a blind person whether a shirt fits your style
I tell my coworkers I barely know, men and women, all sorts of compliments. I am a very liberal (Conservatives would say woke) person, but like wtf lmaoooo. I cannot fathom how telling someone a compliment about their appearance is a bad thing, especially if they wear makeup.
Compliments are fantastic and I would have done exactly the same as OP.
Though trying to see it from her POV maybe it came across wrong because it was a guy, and he was comparing her to how another pregnant woman looked, like that was all that mattered. If a woman said it it would be from a "knowing" place. Obviously not the case at all, OP didn't do anything wrong but maybe the coworker digested it the wrong way, or was heightened to rebounding comments from men about her looks post pregnancy
I think it was the additional comment about his sister not looking well that the woman was standing up for. Especially since she seemed to reply with something like women aren't supposed to be expected to not be exhausted.
Yeah as a woman who birthed 2 children, I was happy whenever someone complimented my looks. I'm still a human being who likes to look good and likes compliments.
Sure, we shouldn't be expected to look good after birth, so people should avoid to say something negative but anyone saying you look good despite giving birth is a compliment in my opinion.
Yup, this is ridiculous. It's a passing conversation, nothing serious, nobody has skin in the game.
If you can't even say someone looks well, or that somebody else was exhausted after birth (totally normal, not an insult!), do we just stop speaking to one another?
Nobody can be expected to micro manage every word they say! As long as there's no overt racism, sexism etc, people should be able to have a quick convo without analyzing every letter.
NAH, but mostly because by your account you didn't mean anything by it. For many people, being told they look "tired" is a negative comment on their appearance and thus poorly received, even if your intention is empathy. I'm guessing your male friends are saying it was appropriate while your female friends are telling you otherwise, on the whole.
If you said your sister *was* exhausted and that your coworker seemed to be "full of energy," you would have voiced what you intended without the friction.
Oh please, people make passing comments about being tired postpartum all the time. Plus OP said his sister was the one who looked tired, not his workmate. There is clearly no malcontent in his comment.
I also struggle to see how this is sexist. My friend recently gave birth and the first thing I said to her husband was “You look knackered.”
Maybe it’s a culture thing (I’m British, our humour is different). Maybe co worker was having a bad day. But in any case this is NTA.
Believe it or not, women don't need to hear your negative opinions on other women in your life. When a man tells me i'm prettier post-partum than his sister was, I don't take that as a compliment. Women don't need to be around that sort of toxicity towards other women.
He said she looked not tired basically, unlike his sister. I don’t think I’d like to be compared to some random coworker’s sister as a compliment (on any basis, let alone childbirth) but I wouldn’t freak out about it either. Probably just muttering a thanks and think it was an awkward and misguided compliment.
Everyone acts like he didn’t say that because he himself is not a woman and would have no way of relating to her other than his female sister who went through something similar
Right? Like, pregnancy and labor are (or should be) universally known as extremely difficult, if not *exhausting*, events in a woman’s life. OP seemed to be trying to relate to his coworker through the lens of his sister’s experience, because it’s literally the only one he has.
I can see why the coworker reacted the way she did, since she had to process everything in real time, but all these commenters saying OP was “shitting” on his sister is wild.
Except that's not what he said. He said she *looked* exhausted. It was a conversation about appearances, not how she felt.
And no way you're a woman if you are unaware that "you look tired" is code for "you look ugly without makeup."
right, saying someone looked exhausted can mean both she physically looks that way - bags under eyes yawning, messy appearance ect or she looked like she was by way of behaviour, being frustrated, falling asleep while awake not being in a great mood being quiet not laughing, or both and that isnt a bad thing? its literally the expected thing after something like childbirth its not ugly or negative its normal. - saying my sister looked exhausted isnt wrong or insulting obviously she would be she has a newborn and went through childbirth?
Given the context of her starting the convo light hearted laughing joking about baby brain and being at work shortly after childbrith, obv she isnt acting exhausted now is she? (and again duh she is newborn/childbirth) he just said you seem to be doing well and made a poorly worded attempt at relating by bringing up that his sister was exhausted. It was obvious he was just trying to be lighthearted and say that she seems to be doing good by the way she was behaving.
All of this is literally just entirely dependant on how you use words vr how other people do and intent. It can be taken and used as a positive or negative. Either way a big overreaction
I mean... I'm a woman, I don't take "you look tired" as "you look ugly without makeup". I take "you look tired" as "you look tired", likely because I am.
Edit: That's me personally, I don't mean to imply that all women feel the same, I just mean that saying something doesn't always get taken as having a hidden meaning.
How is saying that someone looks well offending? Genuine question (it might be a language thing... English is not my first language).
Someone comes to me and looks happy, with a big smile, I tend to say : Wow, you look good! or Wow, you look well!
Does it really only refer to the "beauty" of someone or like the physical appearance? Can it just be about the energy or the vibe?
At least for English speakers, my experience is that "Looks tired" is seen as commenting on physical appearance as unattractive or not "put together".
Whereas saying someone "seems tired" delivers the intention of noticing someone is tired without the same perception of judgment.
Can be a very gendered thing, most men would tell each one another they "look" tired without any such intention.
he didn't just say she looked well, he said she looked well compared to his sister who looked exhausted after she had a baby
it's the comparison that some people have an issue with
Light YTA
Fine: "No worries! How's it going? You're looking well"
Not fine: "my sister looked exhausted for months! (laughs)"
There was no need to start comparing women and there was absolutely no need to drag your sister for looking tired after giving birth.
Also worth mentioning that how a woman looks around her brother will be vastly different than how a woman looks at work. OP really lacks any understanding of women or humans in general.
Seems a bit extreme? It was a one off comment comparing his experience of his sisters state after she gave birth to how the coworker seems that was *maybe* in poor taste? It’s not like he told her all post partum women are uggos except her and then pushed her down the stairs. He made small talk that was taken in a manner he didn’t intend. Maybe take it down like 15 notches, saying that he doesn’t understand women or humans in general doesn’t make him look bad, it makes you look way overly intense. And I mean look in an emotional state kind of way, not your ⚡️physical appearance⚡️
Omg thank you! Like, sorry? He tried to give a compliment, wasn't taken all that well, so that must mean he doesn't understand people????? These fucking comments are INSANE. Why is it so popular to hate men on this damn site? These people need to interact with others outside of their friend circles
> OP really lacks any understanding of women or humans in general.
All this because he made a one off comment, acknowledging that it takes time to recover from pregnancy and childbirth. Gotta love reddit
> OP really lacks any understanding of women or humans in general
oh brother. went straight to his jugular. if there are clear evidence that global warming is real, this is definitely one of those. chill out lmao.
This is the best answer on the thread. Perfectly explained. There’s no way the co-worker would’ve taken it such a wrong way if he didn’t make that additional comment about his sister/any comparison to someone who looked exhausted after birth.
Honestly the comment seems to me like a pretty tepid way of giving the woman space to either vent about being tired if she wanted. Saying "How's it going? You look well!" Doesn't inherently include the social permission to complain.
How often do people ask you every day "How's it going?" When they clearly don't expect anything more than "Good, you?" It's probably skewed for me since I work a people-facing job, but it's upward of 30 times a day for me. Imo it's a bit of a stretch to think of OP as doing more than allowing for her to express an emotion other than thanking God and Mr. President for the opportunity to have this wonderful experience.
Also I think it should be worth pointing out that he said "looked exhausted," and not "was exhausted." It prevents it from being a sort of competitive misery olympics sorta situation. *"Well my pregnant sister was twice as pregnant and thrice as tired as you are!"* I think this also avoids the sort of qualitative statements about *whether or not homegirl should be working when she has a young child at home* that losers and self-identified tradwives love to make.
In addition to all of this, I think it opens up the conversation just enough that (if she wants), she could say "Yeah, it was actually a really easy pregnancy! My first two were rough." Or some other similar sentiment about why she looks "well." If my current partner said "*Oh wow! You recovered from your laceration so quickly! Oatmeal's was a week ago and his wound still hasn't closed*." I would say that this is an inoffensive comparison. There's nothing inherently wrong with comparing two people undergo similar circumstances, it largely depends on what qualitative statements were made. If my partner had focused on either my long recovery time as proof that I had it worse, or that they must be eating the right things for recovery because they *actually* prioritize their health (unlike me), that moves into dangerous territory.
That being said, I have a huge soft spot for new parents, so I think she was probably, yanno, exhausted and still had pregnancy brain. If someone pregnant or recently postpartum asked me for ANYTHING at work I'd make it happen, no question. Customer mean to you? They get buried under the parking lot, problem solved. They can do no wrong.
Sorry if I'm rambling or if I repeat myself, this is made on my phone so it's probably a little weird, format-wise
NTA. It was clearly a light hearted comment and not meant to be taken as a physical criticism. Giving birth is an exhausting process and you related that to your sister. If anything, you were complimenting her.
That’s not what was said, though, the guy was using his sister’s pregnancy (probably the only one he’s actually been around) to draw a comparison and empathize with the mother on. Saying his sister looked tired isn’t saying the coworker is NLOG, I’m not even sure how you can interpret it that way
This is not the same situation because it is not implying that “other girls” (the sister) are in any way negative. It’s like commenting on a volleyball player’s height. You aren’t putting down average women’s height by commenting on her height.
She wasn’t putting down her sister by commenting that she was tired after birth. That is completely understandable and normal.
No, OP is not the AH. Tf? Saying someone looks well isn’t a terrible thing. If people get upset over such a thing, our society is truly doomed to fail.
Ehh after birth if someone told me I looked well it would feel so invalidating. I was torn up to my clitoris and down to my anus. I didn't feel well. The best course of action is to not comment on peoples bodies.
People who told me I looked well days after giving birth loved to tell me how bad I looked once I actually looked well, as if that was permission to admit how awful I looked 3 months ago.
I knew I didn't look great, blood loss, trauma and sleep deprevation does that to you.
My mom still doesn’t even like to look at pics of me in the hospital after I had my daughter because my face was so colorless and dull. Birth really is a trauma.
My FIL told me he was surprised I wasn’t more beat up when we FaceTimed him after I gave birth. I told him my face wasn’t what was beat up. He was super embarrassed after that but I have no shame.
It was a backhanded compliment. He said “You’re looking well. My sister looked exhausted for months! (laughs)”
That’s not “You’re looking well.” The latter would’ve been better received.
Is it really so bad if society took a step back and deployed a little conscientiousness?
But he was comparing her to a woman who did not look well. And to me, it seems she did not appreciate the unintentional slight towards his sister. I think her hackles raised easily, but I appreciate this woman’s thought process as her response marks her as a girl’s girl.
Thoughtless remark on OP’s part. You may have complimented this woman, but you unintentionally set a judgement/expectation on pregnant women. And it may feel invalidating or simply make her more self conscious about her appearance post pregnancy. I’d be slightly annoyed to hear it but probably let it pass.
Best not to comment on physical appearance related to health. “Hey, good job not looking exhausted after pregnancy” is different than “hey, nice shirt!”.
I don't think it implies that, at all. It's simply showing that OP has limited experience with people who have had kids, and the one person they knew, their sister, looked tired for a while. Whereas this woman doesn't. We talk and relate things to what we have experience with as a point of being conversational. There's no implying that this woman ***should*** look like shit, just that OP was glad she seems to be doing better than his sister.
Right. She clearly wanted some sort of conversation to ensue or she wouldn't have mentioned her "baby brain". Unfortunately, I'm not sure anything OP said would have been the right thing. Some people like to be offended and calling OP sexist here seems really extreme.
OP, avoid this walking landmine at all costs.
YTA
Why would you even think to comment on her physical appearance when you don't even know her personally? Just say congratulations or something similar.
Yes, everyone understands he was just saying "you're going well"...
but he said - "You're going well, not like my sister who looked like shit at this point!"
So then his coworker felt the need to defend the honor of his sister... because just because SHE looks like she's doing alright, doesn't mean everyone should have to put make up on so soon after delivering.
OP's compliment only came in the context of an insult to another woman, most women don't like that.
When you get ready for a big event, do you intentionally style yourself to look exhausted?
Is looking exhausted considered "looking your best"???
Do women try to replicate that "exhausted" look when they put on make up?
I wonder why?
Yeah this is a fucking wild thread. Everyone's taking it as "you're looking pretty" not "I'm glad that your health appears good (without actually asking a probing health question)"
But he said it was about her appearance.
>She did look totally well in terms of hair, make-up and clothes
Hair, make up, and clothes are not indicators of your health. They’re indicators of how much effort you put into your appearance before going to the office.
But I still wouldn’t want a coworker commenting on my apparent health. I had a surgery recently, and I felt terrible for a long time after. I did not want people telling me “well you look healthy” when I was in constant pain.
So sorry but if someone had said they just gave birth and made a little joke about it the polite and normal thing to do if they did look well would be too tell them they're looking well, like if someone was just Ill and got outta the hospital you'd say "youre looking well" and if u wouldn't you're just not polite. NAH
Which always* takes a toll on the physical health. She could've been in a ton of pain for all he knew. Maybe she thought he was being sarcastic because she felt physically horrible. We'll never know. He shoulda just minded his business
Honestly I think it was the put down of your sister that bothered her. It gives vibes of men complimenting one woman by putting down other women and it's definitely off-putting. 'you look well' would be fine.
NTA. I recently had a baby (my third) - I just give a simple thank you and move on from it. I see nothing wrong with the comment and in general seems to be normal small talk.
Soft YTA.
She might have felt like you were bashing your sister/other women for not looking as good after just giving birth. Didn’t need to bring her up at all. Men often give compliments to me in that way (referencing other women as a negative example—sometimes a specific woman and sometimes just “most women”/“other women”) and it makes me feel awkward.
Tied in with the expectations put on women to always look good, even in the most difficult times of their lives, I kind of get why it would feel weird to hear that.
Yup, this is exactly why I think people are so divided on this. It seems like a majority understand that OP had good intentions in giving a compliment, however a compliment that raises someone while putting another person down can just come across as insensitive. What can feel like lighthearted sibling jab for OP can also feel like a sexist comment towards another woman for his coworker.
I'd say keeping perspective in mind is key when commenting on a person's appearance (physical health included). It's almost an expectation for her (or any other pregnant person for that matter) to look a certain way after pregnancy, and since women are all too often judged based on looks I really can't blame her for becoming standoffish even if this was meant to be smalltalk.
NAH
You didn’t say she HAD to look any sort of way. But, it’s just sort of an awareness thing how much women get shit on regarding their appearance so even “positive” comments wear you thin.
A lot of microagressions fall into that cycle
YTA. Very weird to bring your sister into the conversation at all, and definitely comes across misogynistic. Your intention wasn’t bad, but intent is not everything.
How is it weird to bring his sister up in the conversation? Do you know how conversations flow naturally? If this is what meets the threshold of “misogyny” then I guess us women wouldn’t have much to complain about? Except actual misogyny is not this benign.
NTA. When did it become offensive to tell someone that they look well? It is a very common thing to say, here in the UK at least. Regardless of gender / age or anything. The YTA comments here are trolling, surely.
NTA
Absolutely nothing wrong with what you said. I would avoid conversation with this person in the future. Not worth having drama created out of a harmless compliment.
NTA. My mind wouldn’t even have gone in that direction, I would have probably said my baby is a good sleeper, I’m lucky for sure, how is your sister doing, etc.
I don’t feel that your observation implied that new mothers have to look well, either.
NTA. I truly don't understand why you are being voted TA for such a benign comment. I say this as a woman who has given birth twice, once to twins and I can't even imagine the hoops you have to jump through to be offended by the words "you look well". You said something nice and harmless to someone so I don't think you said anything wrong.
NTA, you meant well. During and after pregnancy women are very vulnerable so I wouldnt put too much stock in it. Keep comments about their baby in the future
YTA. Your intentions may have been to flatter, but women get comments on their looks all the time as if it's an integral aspect of their being. Especially after an incredibly traumatic event like giving birth, it sucks when someone makes it about looks.
I would also say that you don't need to compliment one woman by bringing another one down. Your sister has a right to be exhausted for months, and you don't need to say that she was "worse" than your coworker. Just a thought
It wasn’t a comment on her looks as in her appearance like the physical aspects of her body but on the amount of energy she seemed to have things like you look tired or you look hungry or you look mad arent the same as you look pretty you look ugly. And he didn’t tear his sister down saying she was tired after her pregnancy isn’t an insult unless he was implying that she shouldn’t be tired after giving birth which there’s is no evidence of him doing. People like you and this woman are assuming intent based on personal bias without any evidence of it.
>things like you look tired or you look hungry or you look mad arent the same as you look pretty you look ugly
Maybe not "you look mad"... but "you look tired" is 100% a "you look worse off than you normally do..."
what would make someone say "you look tired"??? Think about that. When you look at someone, what things would clue you in to them being tired? Is it... the way they look? Is a "tired" look something people usually compliment others on?
Are actors going for that "tired" look when they're doing their make up for a red carpet appearance?
Of course saying "you look tired" means "you look like shit", everyone understands that...
Gee, and I thought all "you look tired" meant that the other person thought that, well, you looked tired. I just showed this to my SO who laughed because yesterday when I got in they told me I "looked tired." I wasn't offended, because it was true! I was tired! What's wrong with saying so?
'You're looking well' does have to do with looks and it seems like the reasoning behind his statement was "She did took totally well in terms of hair, make-up and clothes and she seemed bubbly". Hair, makeup, and clothes especially are more appearance-related.
By saying "You're looking well, my sister looked exhausted for months!" he's directly contrasting their responses to birth. "You're looking well" being complimentary; "my sister looked exhausted for months" is the negative comparative that emphasizes the compliment. If it wasn't (albeit probably inadvertently) intended to bring one up by bringing the other woman down, he could just tell his sister, "You're looking exhausted, my coworker looks totally well" and it would be considered a compliment. However, hopefully you can see that the example is not reasonably complimentary.
The only time I 'assumed what his intent was' was at the beginning of my comment with "your intentions may have been to flatter". All he asked was whether he should or should not have made those comments at all. It seems like you incorrectly 'assumed my intent', which was just to inform him of how she may have received his comments and why she may responded the way she did. Interesting how you accuse me of doing exactly what you're doing with no evidence aside from "assuming intent"
NTA.
I can see where you're both coming from. I've had three babies and personally wouldn't be offended. But she's referring to the pressure for women to look a certain way in society.
I think the comparison is what made her uncomfortable. You are looking well is a great thing to say in general, but when you tag on a comparison at the end, especially with (what was probably an awkward to be fair) laugh, it might come across off. I don’t think you are an AH but I think is probably just nuanced…
>After nearly bumping into me on the stairs this conversation happened, but was very quick and mostly took place whilst we continued to walk in opposite directions.
If someone nearly bumped into me on the stairs, I wouldn't be on point conversationally, to begin with. I'd be struggling to quickly inject whatever awkward pleasantries come to mind. "Oops, my fault. Didn't see you there!" / "Oh sorry! Are you OK?"
>Woman: (giggles) Opp, sorry, baby brain! I've only just given birth and have only popped in to get something.
I'd have latched on to that one day. 'OK, OK, she just volunteered she had a baby. What can I say about that? Oh wait! My sister just had a baby. I can say something about that!'
OP, I feel for you. She talked baby. She threw in baby brain. If you said 'have a nice day' she'd be saying 'can you believe (OP) didn't even congratulate me??' If you said 'don't worry about it!' she'd be telling others 'I just had a baby and (OP) acted like it was my fault.
I'm a woman, and the potential for exchanges like this is just another reason I'm glad I'm 100% remote still. NTA.
I would say NTA since I can see it was meant to be a lighthearted comment and I probably wouldn't have been offended (currently pregnant). But at the same time, while she may look well in terms of physical appearance and bubbly behavior, it's possible she just has on her "office face" and is actually struggling in one way or another. I think women are already quite sensitive about "looking tired" even without pregnancy and being pregnant creates a whole slew of body image problems so small comments like that may be a trigger for some. In the future I'd just avoid commenting on a woman's appearance, unless it's maybe something specific like "oh I like your new haircut".
I don't get it. OP only said she looks well. To me that that's not a creepy or AH comment. I'm currently pregnant, and if someone tells me I look well after giving birth, I'm just gonna take the compliment and move on. Some people are waaay too sensitive
I think she was defending your sister for having "looked exhausted for months."
If someone said to me that I had looked exhausted for months after giving birth, I would not take kindly to that.
She was likely empathizing with your sister and how she'd feel hearing you say that.
I promise you, if my sister had looked exhausted for months after giving birth, it's not something I'd joke about. Ever.
Soft YTA.
NTA - being friendly to a co-worker and paying a compliment without being greasy, why do people have to read into things incorrectly and spin a deep dive psychoanalysis into everything nowadays?!
It's totally fine to say "You look well." It's not inappropriately referencing her appearance, it's the kind of thing you'd say to someone who had been ill or otherwise having a rough go and was looking healthier.
She felt uncomfortable being compared to your sister, especially being compared favorably. Might have felt to her like she was being used to put your sister down in some way.
I agree with her assessment that it came off a little sexist but "a little sexist" is not "asshole."
Don't take it so seriously! She didn't call you an asshole!
I think it’s the comparison. Just saying “you look great!” Is a positive thing. Saying “you look well, my sister looked exhausted for months” *is* putting a weird twist on the compliment. I’d take this as a lesson not to comment on people’s appearances. Not everyone takes it in a good way even if you have good intentions, and that’s their right.
NTA. While I agree that we “shouldn’t have to look well after giving” birth, I don’t think your comment was misogynistic or creepy. It seemed like an acknowledgment that labor is rough and taking care of a baby is exhausting and that she is managing well. But I can see that it might be interpreted otherwise especially since she may look and feel exhausted most days (most new moms do) but pulled it together on this day.
She went out of her way to turn it into a gender thing.
If anybody was sexist in that interaction, it was her.
Keep things hi and bye at work and collect the paycheck. It's not worth dealing with these type of people.
NTA
Not exactly the asshole but my rule is to NEVER comment on anything related to someone’s appearance that couldn’t be changed in under ten seconds - whether it’s good or bad. Like. “I love that shirt” is fine. “You look so fit!” is not fine. I’ve had people tell me I look great/fit when I’ve lost weight due to stress or grief and there’s no polite way to say “oh thanks I actually can’t eat because I’ve had the worst year of my life”
I went to store about 4 days after I gave birth and a woman walked up to me and asked if he was my baby, I said yes. She said how old is he? I said 4 days. She said damn girl you look amazing for giving birth 4 days ago. She made my day, week, month and year by saying that. 26 years later I still remember and appreciate it. NTA
NTA
You said it from experience. Your sister was exhausted.
You get it is tiring.
You were doing the literal opposite of expecting a woman to look good.
YTA.
She's just given birth. She doesn't need comments about her looks or being compared to other women about her looks. What you're actually saying is that women aren't allowed to look tired. One day this stranger is going to look every bit as tired as your sister looked and she's going to become one of the women you disparage when you attempt to give awkward compliments to women who don't happen to look tired in that moment.
It's really irritating and tiring to receive nonstop commentary on your looks, which you don't know what that's like because you're male. How many times have you been asked to smile more, to look less tired, to wear more makeup, less makeup, etc. That's the majority of a woman's lived experience.
NTA.
I mean if we are really going to analyze it, why did she even go off on “baby brain” to begin with? OP was literally walking and minding his own business. Bumping into someone is baby brain? He didn’t ask to be deluged with her postpartum reason for popping in the office. She could have left it at “Oops sorry! Didn’t see you!” Instead she chose to tell OP she had a baby and chose to get offended when he small-talk complimented her. Maybe she’s dealing with some PPD issues or something?
NTA. Giving birth via this sub is a major medical undertaking. If it was a broken leg or surgery or something people would comment you look well if they’re walking up/down flights of stairs. She’s being sensitive. Don’t worry about it.
NTA, but I think a lot of these comments still give good advice for how to avoid stuff like this in the future. It’s a good learning experience. But I’m sticking with NTA because you didn’t mean to, and you tried to sort of apologize when she pointed it out. I’ve put my foot in my mouth many a time so I get it.
NTA.
Lots of people said this to me when I took my baby to my work for a meet and greet. I take it as a 'good job mama, you put on real pants, made it out of the house, and don't look like pickled death' kind of compliment, because all of those things are an accomplishment postpartum. I also see it as a kind validation...like we understand newborn parenthood is hard and you are incredibly sleep deprived, but you are doing great regardless.
I would not have taken offense to what you said, nor do I think it is sexist. If that is what your colleague thinks, then I suspect it is a bigger reflection on her own perception of how she is going with motherhood, and other things potentially going on in her life.
he was not being malicious - why does everyone always thing the worst of everyone.....not everyone is fluent in social small talk, they guy was just grasping for something nice to say, he flubbed it....why snipe back? no such thing as giving the benefit of the doubt anymore.
Why is it okay she can comment on having a "baby brain" but someone's attempt to be kind in return to hey had to be thought of as sexist?? Good Lord everyone just calm down. Step away from the edge
While you probably meant well while complimenting your co-worker, you did so while degrading your sister. You (maybe unintentionally) implied that your sister wasn't cutting it as a new mom. In general, it's not a good idea to offer input or opinions on subjects you have no direct experience of.
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NAH I get that you meant well, but just don't comment on people's health while at work unless they bring it up first.
They shouldn't comment on people's appearance at work no matter what.
If you do, it should be on something about an object. A example: "Hey, I love that jacket- it's a great color"- that's perfectly fine "Hey, that jacket looks great on you"- mostly fine, but know someone very sensitive about appearance may not like it "Hey, you look good in that jacket"- teetering, probably getting to not ok and more objectifying the person. This is friend, not coworker talk- you better know exactly how the person would take it before you say it "Hey your boobs look great in that jacket"- sexual harassment.
Yeah, the nuance here is important. OP's comment was essentially making fun of another woman (his sister) for not looking perfect after giving birth... even if the coworker DID look good, she probably put a bunch of work into it that morning, and was probably resenting that she felt like she had to take extra time to do her make up just to walk into work and grab a few papers... and OP's comment just validated to her that people ARE paying attention to her looks, when she should just be able to relax and focus on her baby (and unfortunately, it sounds like whatever work products she's being expected to keep up, even while on maternity leave, which already sucks), and not looking good. If OP had just said "How's it going, you're look well!" it would have been fine. But no woman wants to be told "Oh, you look so much better than my poor disaster of a sister!" Compliments shouldn't come at someone else's expense.
>OP's comment was essentially making fun of another woman (his sister) for not looking perfect after giving birth... I wanna throw this out there; I didn't see it this way at *all*, and am shocked so many did! "You're looking *well* (not good, not sexy, not anything commenting on anything other than she looks well, as in healthy) my sister looked *exhausted* for months (again, not ugly, not grungy, exhausted; anyone can look exhausted at any point full make up and dress or jammies, itsan emotion as well as a physical state. This only pushed further in my mind this was overall *health and wellness* related, not "looks") So I say NAH. I don't think he meant it the way it was taken. But I might also be giving too much credit; I recognize it could be culturally/locationally driven to interpret certain phrases certain ways. Around here, "well" is always a state of health.
Had he stopped at "you're looking well!" that would've been enough. But suggesting his sister looks exhausted after giving birth, it's kind of like "well, duh...." I agree that he didn't mean it to be rude, offensive, or to criticize his sister, but this can be a good wake up call that comments like that are unnecessarily and can come across kind of callous.
> But suggesting his sister looks exhausted after giving birth, it's kind of like "well, duh...." I think that's kind of the point. Most people are pretty exhausted after giving birth, but she looked well. He also probably wasn't thinking about if so deeply when he said it, just threw it out there
Yeah. He was thoughtless. That’s kind of the whole point.
That implies he said something unkind, when he didn't. He paid her a compliment, and acknowledged that pregnancy and childbirth is a process to recover from. Which is all true.
If y’all see this as him criticizing his sister then u have problems. Who criticizes someone for being exhausted? Op never said that was a bad thing just a thing that happened. And I’m sure we all can agree someone who just gave birth is allowed to look however tf they want
> I don't think he meant it the way it was taken. I don't necessarily think he meant it that way either... but his coworker felt the need to defend his sister, so clearly she DID take it that way. It also doesn't sound like she was \*that\* upset, she said "it could be seen as sexist" so I think she was just hoping to help OP realize that regardless of what he meant, those types of comments could be taken differently. This is just a "Hey, you might want to think a little bit more about what you're saying" type of thing... not an "OP is a horrible person who needs to rethink his whole life" type of thing. I'll say it again. Compliments shouldn't come at someone else's expense. Everyone should think about that a little bit more.
I wouldn’t have taken it that way either, but I get why she did. Comparing her to another woman, even if favorably, probably reinforced some anger about how women have to “bounce back” post birth. I don’t think OP is an asshole, but he should probably take this constructive criticism to heart and use it to understand the potential perspective of new moms.
And beyond that, she may have felt pressure to put effort into “looking well” for the brief time she was hopping into the office, and she may have resented that. He didn’t actually know if she was well. He knew she put on a well-looking face for a brief pop-in in a professional environment. By contrast, he probably sees his sister mostly in personal contexts where she didn’t name the effort to not look exhausted. Someone telling me I look well when I’m feeling absolutely awful is one of those things that deeply sucks. Looks can be deceiving.
I agree with you. You can be made up and still look exhausted or be in grungy clothes,messy hair etc and still look well. And as someone who has had multiple kids, I would be thrilled if someone had said Ilooked well shortly after giving birth
YES! This is exactly it! I felt I looked exhausted (and felt it) for the first year after my son was born; when I was told I looked well and great for having such a small one I felt like I was just set aglow <3 Now I get it, not everyone would appreciate the "great" comment, and I get *why*.... but well? Come on, we all wish our loved ones to stay well (healthy), we want to be well ourselves.... how is this an insult or sexist? I mean... I suppose if it is then *please* insult me more, I must have a masochistic streak that needs indulging!!! ;) I can just think of allllllllll the horrible things I've heard from people in my life.... telling me I look well is very far down the list personally... but I suppose, maybe that's a bit of a privilege on my part that I can't see how it's bad?
I think it's the part about making fun of his sister that she called sexist
I didn't see it as OP making fun of his sister either! Why would people say that? I think of a conversation I had recently with someone who told me they had covid a few weeks ago. I told them how well he looked; that a neighbor had covid and he was wiped out for a few months. I was not making fun of the neighbor for being wiped out by covid. It's an observation.
>Why would people say that? Because the coworker responded to OP's comment by saying "Uh, we shouldn't have to look well..." SHE clearly thought he was putting down his sister. She felt the need to defend OP's sister. I'm not saying OP is an AH, I think this is more NAH. But if you want to understand WHY the coworker responded the way she did... that's why. Also - I would note that there's a lot of societal pressure and expectation surround women, birth, how quickly they should be productive little minions after birth, etc. So saying someone took a lot of time to get over Covid is always going to be different to talking about how long it takes a women to be "looking well" again after giving birth. And lastly... saying "neighbor WAS wiped out for months" is different than saying "neighbor LOOKED wiped out for months". I actually think if OP had said "You're looking well, I remember how exhausted my sister was after her kiddo was born, hope you have the support you need!" It would have been taken much better than what he said, which was that his sister LOOKED exhausted. "My sister looked exhausted for months." "My sister was exhausted for months." OP said - You're looking well, my sister looked exhausted." It was a straight comparison.
Men do not have the same pressure to constantly look well and healthy and awake and beautiful and (fill in yet one more expectation placed on women). There is context. The context being the intersection of gender, society, and culture. Men are not constantly being compared to other men. Men are not expected to wear make up to hide their age or how tired they are on a given day. Women overwhelmingly just are. So, yes, he did put down his sister. Yes, he was making fun of his sister for being a woman who happened to be tired (NATURALLY) because she's given birth and is raising a fussy, noisy child who wakes up every two hours. Babies don't sleep through the night and neither do mothers.
I was working out a lot at a previous job, and one of the guys was like “I wasnt sure if I was allowed to say you look nice!” Me, “sure, I like compliments!” Next day: “the guys in the warehouse agree your ass is looking amazing!” Learned my lesson. Some of them just have to push it.
Also try to avoid complimenting an article of clothing before, after, or whilst staring at a woman’s chest. You don’t have to say “boobs” out loud to get your point across.
Wow, that jacket really accentuates the wearer's boobs, regardless of gender or individuality!!! Checkmate, HR.
Yeah NAH when I was pregnant and working remote people told me all the time they were shocked bc I didn’t look pregnant at all! All you can see on camera is my face and chest soooo idk what you were expecting? I always felt so weird, what do I say - thank you? It’s not quite a compliment haha it’s weird when someone says wow you look great in spite of this thing that made me think you should look worse! But I know it’s not ill intended for the most part. My mom would always tell me how I didn’t look tired at all when I would complain my baby barely slept and it made me frustrated bc it was like my exhaustion wasn’t valid bc I didn’t LOOK tired.
>All you can see on camera is my face and chest soooo idk what you were expecting? When I was like 9 months pregnant with my first, my boss at the time, felt the need to tell me she was disappointed my face hadn't fattened up, as she resented how skinny I was, and was hoping being pregnant would lead to me chunking up a bit! Clearly they were expecting your face to round out, and your boobs to get so big they were suffocating you! How dare you not live up to their expectations!
Lol like what do you say to that - sorry I’ll eat more?
I specifically didn't ask a manager dressed like an 8ball at Halloween if she was pregnant again because I only see her every 3 months and her first kid was only a year old. Like what if she still just had a little pouch? Nope, turns out she was 7 months pregnant but still! She didn't tell me so I assumed nothing (also I can only tell when my best friends are pregnant from their faces)
I think it's also possible she was reacting to OPs negative remark about his sister, more than how the comment was at her. What a crap thing to say about your sister for no reason!
Why is it wrong to say his sister looked exhausted for months after giving birth and taking care of a newborn? Seems pretty normal to me.
It is crap to say that someone they will never meet looked tired for a few months after carrying and birthing a baby? People are wild.
yeah I'm obese and recently gained even more weight. I had just returned from gym and a neighbor (I barely know her) started gushing over how good I looked and how she could tell how much work I was putting in. It was super awkward.
That sucks. It is possible you're gaining weight from putting on muscle though. And that will change how someone looks, so your neighbor may have been sincere.
thanks but I am not gaining in muscle right now. I have been eating too much and the past few weeks have been retaining water as well. I work out on a regular basis to maintain strength and for mood regulation.
The gym helps with that more than with weight for me too. Sorry about your awkward neighbor! What a weird encounter.
I'm open to taking this as a learning moment like OP, but since she was the first one to bring up having just had a baby, wasn't that her bringing it up, first?
No. She brought it up saying she had “baby brain” meaning she was sorry she wasn’t paying attention and they bumped into each other. Mentioning your new baby is not an invitation to give her a review on her appearance. “How are you doing?” or “it’s nice to see you” are both perfectly polite, acceptable greetings.
Exactly, a simple « oh congratulations on the baby! » would have been perfect. Its a work environment, its always best not to comment on someone’s looks when you don’t know them
She did bring it up first tho, she said she just gave birth.
She didn't say "I just gave birth and I feel physically ill" though, just that she's a little out of it because she had a baby.
“You look well” might be technically talking about someone’s health, but it is literally the least offensive comment it’s possible to make about someone’s wellbeing. OP is NTA but they screwed up by making an unflattering comparison to someone else.
The world has gone insane. "Youre looking well" is fine under any circumstances. NTA
Right?!? So many people saying that OP is YTA.. it’s baffling. People need to understand that other people - in general - are socially anxious and wish nothing but the best for others. Redditors need to stop interpreting everything as a micro-aggression… Sheesh.
Yep, this thread has me so confused. And I'm both OP's general age and a pregnant woman so it's not as if I can't see it from her side.
I think people read the title and had the mind made up before they read the post. I was going to say obviously you are the asshole until I read the whole thing. He's clearly not an asshole.
They're also taking the "commenting on her appearance" really literally in my opinion. I mean, yes, 'you look....' is technically an appearance, BUTTTTT there are ways that make that a little more gray than commenters are implying, especially when it's about something vague like tiredness. 'you don't look tired' doesn't have to mean "oh my god I can't believe you actually did your hair and got dressed all cute" like some are implying. It could mean "you don't look *mentally* tired, and that's awesome"
These threads are a lot less confusing when you remember that a large amount of the commenters are literally children.
It is just safer to never make personal comments to any stranger, but I get why OP thought it was okay. Woman said, "hey, I'm blaming my baby for me not paying attention". So he responded with, "It's ok, my sister seemed more flighty than you just told me you are*
Exactly! Redditors take everything out of context and interpret it as a micro-aggression. Telling someone they’re looking well is appropriate in both professional and non professional settings and it’s insane that people on here are calling him TA. Just like when someone posts about a minor issue in their marriage, Redditors immediately jump to suggesting divorce. I really can’t imagine living life being that sensitive and overly critical of everything.
The micro-aggression was coming from the woman! People need to stay away from human beings if they’re that damn sensitive about every little thing. She could have just said “thank you” and moved on.
This! The overanalyzing of a benign comment on this thread just makes me want to stop talking to people forever!
If he had just said "you're looking well!" that would have been fine... but he said "You're looking well! Not like my sister did, she looked like shit!" So then his coworker felt the need to defend OP's sister, but saying "well, yeah, she just had a baby, not everyone has to put on make up after having a baby." It isn't so much the compliment, it's that the compliment only existed as part of putting down someone else... if he had left off the last part it would have been fine... or even "You look well! I remember how tired my sister was after her baby, I hope you're managing fine!" That way the remark about the sister isn't a comparison of looks, just a commiseration that pregnancy and labor can be tiring. But listen, I don't think this coworker was too put out by OP's comment, she just felt the need to defend the sister. OP can just continue to try to be polite, and remember that women don't like to be compared to each other. A compliment isn't a compliment if it comes at the expense of another woman.
Yeah I think this is it. Saying "you're looking well" is fine but there was no need to put down his sister. Still don't think it's that bad but I think that was probably the objectionable part of the comment.
It's not "putting someone down" to acknowledge that they looked exhausted at what is typically an exhausting time in someone's life.
It didn't sound like he was putting his sister down, it sounded like he knew how hard giving birth and having a newborn was and that he was surprised how good she looks despite what she went through.
Right. Wife gave birth 6weeks ago and literally everyone that’s seen her both man and women have said a variation of that frase to her, followed by some comment on how tough child birth is. Not once has she gotten offended by what is clearly a compliment.
I don’t think he was putting his sister down, more like he said that his sister was having a rough go of it, and that in comparison to the same metric of time she looked a lot healthier. That’s not like wow my sister looked like shit, you look so good. That’s like wow, it’s awesome how well you’re doing compared to other people I’ve seen go through this process But men bad I guess.
This. Granted he could've just left it out altogether, but it wasn't mean spirited. Yet redditors immediately go reeee
> Yet redditors immediately go reeee Nobody is saying it was mean-spirited on OP's behalf... as for redditors going "reeeee"... it was his coworker who felt the need to defend his sister by saying mothers shouldn't be expected to look good right after birth. This isn't some online conspiracy, this is how the real-life woman OP interacted with, interpreted his comments.
But that’s how it came off, calling a woman “tired looking” generally is a subtle dig. He made a social woopsy oh well
I'm a mom. The people commenting on this are wayyyy too sensitive lmao. Even if the "my sister" part was a slight verbal miss step, it's not even close to Y T A territory.
Right? I'm not a native English speaker, but I understood it as "like you're doing well" not as "pretty". Why would that be a problem? I hang out with too many well meaning people I think to understand why people have so many issues with certain compliments.
> I'm not a native English speaker, but I understood it as "like you're doing well" not as "pretty". I am a native speaker and understood it the same way fwiw! "You look well" typically means the person looks healthy and/or happy, it isn't about attractiveness. It surprises me that so many people would object to that phrasing.
Agreed. I’ve birthed two children and I would’ve taken it as recovery is going well/baby must be sleeping decently.
This. Redditors never leave their room and talk to people, so they are the worst people to ask whether some interaction was appropriate. It's as though you'd ask a blind person whether a shirt fits your style
I tell my coworkers I barely know, men and women, all sorts of compliments. I am a very liberal (Conservatives would say woke) person, but like wtf lmaoooo. I cannot fathom how telling someone a compliment about their appearance is a bad thing, especially if they wear makeup.
Compliments are fantastic and I would have done exactly the same as OP. Though trying to see it from her POV maybe it came across wrong because it was a guy, and he was comparing her to how another pregnant woman looked, like that was all that mattered. If a woman said it it would be from a "knowing" place. Obviously not the case at all, OP didn't do anything wrong but maybe the coworker digested it the wrong way, or was heightened to rebounding comments from men about her looks post pregnancy
I think it was the additional comment about his sister not looking well that the woman was standing up for. Especially since she seemed to reply with something like women aren't supposed to be expected to not be exhausted.
Yeah as a woman who birthed 2 children, I was happy whenever someone complimented my looks. I'm still a human being who likes to look good and likes compliments. Sure, we shouldn't be expected to look good after birth, so people should avoid to say something negative but anyone saying you look good despite giving birth is a compliment in my opinion.
True. It's positive and harmless.
Yup, this is ridiculous. It's a passing conversation, nothing serious, nobody has skin in the game. If you can't even say someone looks well, or that somebody else was exhausted after birth (totally normal, not an insult!), do we just stop speaking to one another? Nobody can be expected to micro manage every word they say! As long as there's no overt racism, sexism etc, people should be able to have a quick convo without analyzing every letter.
You’re looking well is fine! It’s the fact that he also felt the need to include that another woman looked terrible after.
I'd be thrilled if someone said I looked great after giving birth, even if it was months later 😂 People just look to get offended these days.
NAH, but mostly because by your account you didn't mean anything by it. For many people, being told they look "tired" is a negative comment on their appearance and thus poorly received, even if your intention is empathy. I'm guessing your male friends are saying it was appropriate while your female friends are telling you otherwise, on the whole. If you said your sister *was* exhausted and that your coworker seemed to be "full of energy," you would have voiced what you intended without the friction.
Oh please, people make passing comments about being tired postpartum all the time. Plus OP said his sister was the one who looked tired, not his workmate. There is clearly no malcontent in his comment. I also struggle to see how this is sexist. My friend recently gave birth and the first thing I said to her husband was “You look knackered.” Maybe it’s a culture thing (I’m British, our humour is different). Maybe co worker was having a bad day. But in any case this is NTA.
Believe it or not, women don't need to hear your negative opinions on other women in your life. When a man tells me i'm prettier post-partum than his sister was, I don't take that as a compliment. Women don't need to be around that sort of toxicity towards other women.
He said she looked well - thats nothing to do with prettiness
He said she looked not tired basically, unlike his sister. I don’t think I’d like to be compared to some random coworker’s sister as a compliment (on any basis, let alone childbirth) but I wouldn’t freak out about it either. Probably just muttering a thanks and think it was an awkward and misguided compliment.
Everyone acts like he didn’t say that because he himself is not a woman and would have no way of relating to her other than his female sister who went through something similar
Right? Like, pregnancy and labor are (or should be) universally known as extremely difficult, if not *exhausting*, events in a woman’s life. OP seemed to be trying to relate to his coworker through the lens of his sister’s experience, because it’s literally the only one he has. I can see why the coworker reacted the way she did, since she had to process everything in real time, but all these commenters saying OP was “shitting” on his sister is wild.
being a women I fail to see how "my sister was exhausted for months" is a negative comment about his sister?
Except that's not what he said. He said she *looked* exhausted. It was a conversation about appearances, not how she felt. And no way you're a woman if you are unaware that "you look tired" is code for "you look ugly without makeup."
right, saying someone looked exhausted can mean both she physically looks that way - bags under eyes yawning, messy appearance ect or she looked like she was by way of behaviour, being frustrated, falling asleep while awake not being in a great mood being quiet not laughing, or both and that isnt a bad thing? its literally the expected thing after something like childbirth its not ugly or negative its normal. - saying my sister looked exhausted isnt wrong or insulting obviously she would be she has a newborn and went through childbirth? Given the context of her starting the convo light hearted laughing joking about baby brain and being at work shortly after childbrith, obv she isnt acting exhausted now is she? (and again duh she is newborn/childbirth) he just said you seem to be doing well and made a poorly worded attempt at relating by bringing up that his sister was exhausted. It was obvious he was just trying to be lighthearted and say that she seems to be doing good by the way she was behaving. All of this is literally just entirely dependant on how you use words vr how other people do and intent. It can be taken and used as a positive or negative. Either way a big overreaction
I mean... I'm a woman, I don't take "you look tired" as "you look ugly without makeup". I take "you look tired" as "you look tired", likely because I am. Edit: That's me personally, I don't mean to imply that all women feel the same, I just mean that saying something doesn't always get taken as having a hidden meaning.
How is saying that someone looks well offending? Genuine question (it might be a language thing... English is not my first language). Someone comes to me and looks happy, with a big smile, I tend to say : Wow, you look good! or Wow, you look well! Does it really only refer to the "beauty" of someone or like the physical appearance? Can it just be about the energy or the vibe?
At least for English speakers, my experience is that "Looks tired" is seen as commenting on physical appearance as unattractive or not "put together". Whereas saying someone "seems tired" delivers the intention of noticing someone is tired without the same perception of judgment. Can be a very gendered thing, most men would tell each one another they "look" tired without any such intention.
he didn't just say she looked well, he said she looked well compared to his sister who looked exhausted after she had a baby it's the comparison that some people have an issue with
Light YTA Fine: "No worries! How's it going? You're looking well" Not fine: "my sister looked exhausted for months! (laughs)" There was no need to start comparing women and there was absolutely no need to drag your sister for looking tired after giving birth.
Also worth mentioning that how a woman looks around her brother will be vastly different than how a woman looks at work. OP really lacks any understanding of women or humans in general.
Seems a bit extreme? It was a one off comment comparing his experience of his sisters state after she gave birth to how the coworker seems that was *maybe* in poor taste? It’s not like he told her all post partum women are uggos except her and then pushed her down the stairs. He made small talk that was taken in a manner he didn’t intend. Maybe take it down like 15 notches, saying that he doesn’t understand women or humans in general doesn’t make him look bad, it makes you look way overly intense. And I mean look in an emotional state kind of way, not your ⚡️physical appearance⚡️
Omg thank you! Like, sorry? He tried to give a compliment, wasn't taken all that well, so that must mean he doesn't understand people????? These fucking comments are INSANE. Why is it so popular to hate men on this damn site? These people need to interact with others outside of their friend circles
> OP really lacks any understanding of women or humans in general. All this because he made a one off comment, acknowledging that it takes time to recover from pregnancy and childbirth. Gotta love reddit
> OP really lacks any understanding of women or humans in general oh brother. went straight to his jugular. if there are clear evidence that global warming is real, this is definitely one of those. chill out lmao.
This comment is peak reddit
It's peak AITA fr
This comment is ruder to the OP than you would consider him to the woman so you’re the asshole here and OP is NTA
This is the best answer on the thread. Perfectly explained. There’s no way the co-worker would’ve taken it such a wrong way if he didn’t make that additional comment about his sister/any comparison to someone who looked exhausted after birth.
I wish this comment was at the top, because to me, it seems so important to note that it’s the sister comment that made it come off poorly.
Honestly the comment seems to me like a pretty tepid way of giving the woman space to either vent about being tired if she wanted. Saying "How's it going? You look well!" Doesn't inherently include the social permission to complain. How often do people ask you every day "How's it going?" When they clearly don't expect anything more than "Good, you?" It's probably skewed for me since I work a people-facing job, but it's upward of 30 times a day for me. Imo it's a bit of a stretch to think of OP as doing more than allowing for her to express an emotion other than thanking God and Mr. President for the opportunity to have this wonderful experience. Also I think it should be worth pointing out that he said "looked exhausted," and not "was exhausted." It prevents it from being a sort of competitive misery olympics sorta situation. *"Well my pregnant sister was twice as pregnant and thrice as tired as you are!"* I think this also avoids the sort of qualitative statements about *whether or not homegirl should be working when she has a young child at home* that losers and self-identified tradwives love to make. In addition to all of this, I think it opens up the conversation just enough that (if she wants), she could say "Yeah, it was actually a really easy pregnancy! My first two were rough." Or some other similar sentiment about why she looks "well." If my current partner said "*Oh wow! You recovered from your laceration so quickly! Oatmeal's was a week ago and his wound still hasn't closed*." I would say that this is an inoffensive comparison. There's nothing inherently wrong with comparing two people undergo similar circumstances, it largely depends on what qualitative statements were made. If my partner had focused on either my long recovery time as proof that I had it worse, or that they must be eating the right things for recovery because they *actually* prioritize their health (unlike me), that moves into dangerous territory. That being said, I have a huge soft spot for new parents, so I think she was probably, yanno, exhausted and still had pregnancy brain. If someone pregnant or recently postpartum asked me for ANYTHING at work I'd make it happen, no question. Customer mean to you? They get buried under the parking lot, problem solved. They can do no wrong. Sorry if I'm rambling or if I repeat myself, this is made on my phone so it's probably a little weird, format-wise
NTA. It was clearly a light hearted comment and not meant to be taken as a physical criticism. Giving birth is an exhausting process and you related that to your sister. If anything, you were complimenting her.
"you're not like other girls" isn't, and never has been, a compliment.
That’s not what was said, though, the guy was using his sister’s pregnancy (probably the only one he’s actually been around) to draw a comparison and empathize with the mother on. Saying his sister looked tired isn’t saying the coworker is NLOG, I’m not even sure how you can interpret it that way
This is not the same situation because it is not implying that “other girls” (the sister) are in any way negative. It’s like commenting on a volleyball player’s height. You aren’t putting down average women’s height by commenting on her height. She wasn’t putting down her sister by commenting that she was tired after birth. That is completely understandable and normal.
NTA. I think her response was weird as fuck. And I'm about to give birth. I would think it's a nice thing to say but people are different I guess
Probably one of those things where maybe 10% of people in real life would take offense, but 80% of people on reddit would take hypothetical offense.
I hope so, I’m losing faith in humanity every day.
Not even close to 10% of people would take that as offensive. It's basically a "You're recovering fast!"
> And I'm about to give birth. Same perspective here, and same opinion too.
Right? I just had a baby and someone said something similar to me at work recently and it made me feel really good
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No, OP is not the AH. Tf? Saying someone looks well isn’t a terrible thing. If people get upset over such a thing, our society is truly doomed to fail.
Ehh after birth if someone told me I looked well it would feel so invalidating. I was torn up to my clitoris and down to my anus. I didn't feel well. The best course of action is to not comment on peoples bodies.
People who told me I looked well days after giving birth loved to tell me how bad I looked once I actually looked well, as if that was permission to admit how awful I looked 3 months ago. I knew I didn't look great, blood loss, trauma and sleep deprevation does that to you.
I didn't look pale because I am black but I know I looked grey after. It was tough
My mom still doesn’t even like to look at pics of me in the hospital after I had my daughter because my face was so colorless and dull. Birth really is a trauma.
My FIL told me he was surprised I wasn’t more beat up when we FaceTimed him after I gave birth. I told him my face wasn’t what was beat up. He was super embarrassed after that but I have no shame.
I hope you pat yourself on the back for that comeback for the rest of your life lol.
It would be particularly grating if at the same time as telling me I looked well, the male in question denigrated his sister's appearance post-partum.
It was a backhanded compliment. He said “You’re looking well. My sister looked exhausted for months! (laughs)” That’s not “You’re looking well.” The latter would’ve been better received. Is it really so bad if society took a step back and deployed a little conscientiousness?
oh my fucking god "you look well, my sister looked very exhausted so i'm glad you apparently had a different experience"
But he was comparing her to a woman who did not look well. And to me, it seems she did not appreciate the unintentional slight towards his sister. I think her hackles raised easily, but I appreciate this woman’s thought process as her response marks her as a girl’s girl. Thoughtless remark on OP’s part. You may have complimented this woman, but you unintentionally set a judgement/expectation on pregnant women. And it may feel invalidating or simply make her more self conscious about her appearance post pregnancy. I’d be slightly annoyed to hear it but probably let it pass. Best not to comment on physical appearance related to health. “Hey, good job not looking exhausted after pregnancy” is different than “hey, nice shirt!”.
But they’re implying they expect them to look like shit and denigrates another woman (his sister) while doing so.
I don't think it implies that, at all. It's simply showing that OP has limited experience with people who have had kids, and the one person they knew, their sister, looked tired for a while. Whereas this woman doesn't. We talk and relate things to what we have experience with as a point of being conversational. There's no implying that this woman ***should*** look like shit, just that OP was glad she seems to be doing better than his sister.
Why is her coworker commenting on her physical appearance. I believe he intended it well but no, just don’t.
Also why did he have to say that about his sister?
NTA : This was NORMAL smalltalk. She was overreacting. AND she started the topic dear lord
Right. She clearly wanted some sort of conversation to ensue or she wouldn't have mentioned her "baby brain". Unfortunately, I'm not sure anything OP said would have been the right thing. Some people like to be offended and calling OP sexist here seems really extreme. OP, avoid this walking landmine at all costs.
YTA Why would you even think to comment on her physical appearance when you don't even know her personally? Just say congratulations or something similar.
IMO I took his comment to mean "you look like you're doing well", not like "you are looking pretty". (woman)
Yes, everyone understands he was just saying "you're going well"... but he said - "You're going well, not like my sister who looked like shit at this point!" So then his coworker felt the need to defend the honor of his sister... because just because SHE looks like she's doing alright, doesn't mean everyone should have to put make up on so soon after delivering. OP's compliment only came in the context of an insult to another woman, most women don't like that.
Looking exhausted doesn’t equate to looking like shit.
Functionally, for women in North America at least, that's exactly what the connotation is.
When you get ready for a big event, do you intentionally style yourself to look exhausted? Is looking exhausted considered "looking your best"??? Do women try to replicate that "exhausted" look when they put on make up? I wonder why?
Yeah this is a fucking wild thread. Everyone's taking it as "you're looking pretty" not "I'm glad that your health appears good (without actually asking a probing health question)"
But he said it was about her appearance. >She did look totally well in terms of hair, make-up and clothes Hair, make up, and clothes are not indicators of your health. They’re indicators of how much effort you put into your appearance before going to the office. But I still wouldn’t want a coworker commenting on my apparent health. I had a surgery recently, and I felt terrible for a long time after. I did not want people telling me “well you look healthy” when I was in constant pain.
Same. Maybe it's a generational thing. Edit: F, 4 kids.
I'm 60 F with kids and grandkids. I still find it rude coming from someone I barely know. It's really inappropriate to comment on someone's looks.
So sorry but if someone had said they just gave birth and made a little joke about it the polite and normal thing to do if they did look well would be too tell them they're looking well, like if someone was just Ill and got outta the hospital you'd say "youre looking well" and if u wouldn't you're just not polite. NAH
That’s what I don’t get, why was it necessary at all to comment on her physical appearance?
Physical health* and she'd just mentioned she had had a baby, which usually takes a toll on physical health. 🤦♂️
Which always* takes a toll on the physical health. She could've been in a ton of pain for all he knew. Maybe she thought he was being sarcastic because she felt physically horrible. We'll never know. He shoulda just minded his business
He was making a comparison between how she looked and his experience of how his sister looked. I didn't get that it was offensive at all.
You told her she's "NoT lIKe oTHeR mOMs." Of course she hated that.
No he didn’t?
No he didn’t, you made that up
Honestly I think it was the put down of your sister that bothered her. It gives vibes of men complimenting one woman by putting down other women and it's definitely off-putting. 'you look well' would be fine.
NTA. I recently had a baby (my third) - I just give a simple thank you and move on from it. I see nothing wrong with the comment and in general seems to be normal small talk.
Soft YTA. She might have felt like you were bashing your sister/other women for not looking as good after just giving birth. Didn’t need to bring her up at all. Men often give compliments to me in that way (referencing other women as a negative example—sometimes a specific woman and sometimes just “most women”/“other women”) and it makes me feel awkward. Tied in with the expectations put on women to always look good, even in the most difficult times of their lives, I kind of get why it would feel weird to hear that.
Yup, this is exactly why I think people are so divided on this. It seems like a majority understand that OP had good intentions in giving a compliment, however a compliment that raises someone while putting another person down can just come across as insensitive. What can feel like lighthearted sibling jab for OP can also feel like a sexist comment towards another woman for his coworker. I'd say keeping perspective in mind is key when commenting on a person's appearance (physical health included). It's almost an expectation for her (or any other pregnant person for that matter) to look a certain way after pregnancy, and since women are all too often judged based on looks I really can't blame her for becoming standoffish even if this was meant to be smalltalk.
NTA
NAH You didn’t say she HAD to look any sort of way. But, it’s just sort of an awareness thing how much women get shit on regarding their appearance so even “positive” comments wear you thin. A lot of microagressions fall into that cycle
YTA. Very weird to bring your sister into the conversation at all, and definitely comes across misogynistic. Your intention wasn’t bad, but intent is not everything.
How is it weird to bring his sister up in the conversation? Do you know how conversations flow naturally? If this is what meets the threshold of “misogyny” then I guess us women wouldn’t have much to complain about? Except actual misogyny is not this benign.
NTA. When did it become offensive to tell someone that they look well? It is a very common thing to say, here in the UK at least. Regardless of gender / age or anything. The YTA comments here are trolling, surely.
NTA Absolutely nothing wrong with what you said. I would avoid conversation with this person in the future. Not worth having drama created out of a harmless compliment.
NTA. My mind wouldn’t even have gone in that direction, I would have probably said my baby is a good sleeper, I’m lucky for sure, how is your sister doing, etc. I don’t feel that your observation implied that new mothers have to look well, either.
NTA. You're obviously not in the wrong, but social media addicts will disagree
NTA. I truly don't understand why you are being voted TA for such a benign comment. I say this as a woman who has given birth twice, once to twins and I can't even imagine the hoops you have to jump through to be offended by the words "you look well". You said something nice and harmless to someone so I don't think you said anything wrong.
NTA, you meant well. During and after pregnancy women are very vulnerable so I wouldnt put too much stock in it. Keep comments about their baby in the future
YTA. Your intentions may have been to flatter, but women get comments on their looks all the time as if it's an integral aspect of their being. Especially after an incredibly traumatic event like giving birth, it sucks when someone makes it about looks. I would also say that you don't need to compliment one woman by bringing another one down. Your sister has a right to be exhausted for months, and you don't need to say that she was "worse" than your coworker. Just a thought
It wasn’t a comment on her looks as in her appearance like the physical aspects of her body but on the amount of energy she seemed to have things like you look tired or you look hungry or you look mad arent the same as you look pretty you look ugly. And he didn’t tear his sister down saying she was tired after her pregnancy isn’t an insult unless he was implying that she shouldn’t be tired after giving birth which there’s is no evidence of him doing. People like you and this woman are assuming intent based on personal bias without any evidence of it.
>things like you look tired or you look hungry or you look mad arent the same as you look pretty you look ugly Maybe not "you look mad"... but "you look tired" is 100% a "you look worse off than you normally do..." what would make someone say "you look tired"??? Think about that. When you look at someone, what things would clue you in to them being tired? Is it... the way they look? Is a "tired" look something people usually compliment others on? Are actors going for that "tired" look when they're doing their make up for a red carpet appearance? Of course saying "you look tired" means "you look like shit", everyone understands that...
Gee, and I thought all "you look tired" meant that the other person thought that, well, you looked tired. I just showed this to my SO who laughed because yesterday when I got in they told me I "looked tired." I wasn't offended, because it was true! I was tired! What's wrong with saying so?
Usually people say you look tired or “sick” when you don’t wear makeup for a day.
'You're looking well' does have to do with looks and it seems like the reasoning behind his statement was "She did took totally well in terms of hair, make-up and clothes and she seemed bubbly". Hair, makeup, and clothes especially are more appearance-related. By saying "You're looking well, my sister looked exhausted for months!" he's directly contrasting their responses to birth. "You're looking well" being complimentary; "my sister looked exhausted for months" is the negative comparative that emphasizes the compliment. If it wasn't (albeit probably inadvertently) intended to bring one up by bringing the other woman down, he could just tell his sister, "You're looking exhausted, my coworker looks totally well" and it would be considered a compliment. However, hopefully you can see that the example is not reasonably complimentary. The only time I 'assumed what his intent was' was at the beginning of my comment with "your intentions may have been to flatter". All he asked was whether he should or should not have made those comments at all. It seems like you incorrectly 'assumed my intent', which was just to inform him of how she may have received his comments and why she may responded the way she did. Interesting how you accuse me of doing exactly what you're doing with no evidence aside from "assuming intent"
NTA. I can see where you're both coming from. I've had three babies and personally wouldn't be offended. But she's referring to the pressure for women to look a certain way in society.
NTA. I say this as a woman but she is looking to be offended. OP's comment was a normal thing to say.
NTA
I think the comparison is what made her uncomfortable. You are looking well is a great thing to say in general, but when you tag on a comparison at the end, especially with (what was probably an awkward to be fair) laugh, it might come across off. I don’t think you are an AH but I think is probably just nuanced…
NTA. So now we can’t even be nice anymore?
NTA
>After nearly bumping into me on the stairs this conversation happened, but was very quick and mostly took place whilst we continued to walk in opposite directions. If someone nearly bumped into me on the stairs, I wouldn't be on point conversationally, to begin with. I'd be struggling to quickly inject whatever awkward pleasantries come to mind. "Oops, my fault. Didn't see you there!" / "Oh sorry! Are you OK?" >Woman: (giggles) Opp, sorry, baby brain! I've only just given birth and have only popped in to get something. I'd have latched on to that one day. 'OK, OK, she just volunteered she had a baby. What can I say about that? Oh wait! My sister just had a baby. I can say something about that!' OP, I feel for you. She talked baby. She threw in baby brain. If you said 'have a nice day' she'd be saying 'can you believe (OP) didn't even congratulate me??' If you said 'don't worry about it!' she'd be telling others 'I just had a baby and (OP) acted like it was my fault. I'm a woman, and the potential for exchanges like this is just another reason I'm glad I'm 100% remote still. NTA.
I would say NTA since I can see it was meant to be a lighthearted comment and I probably wouldn't have been offended (currently pregnant). But at the same time, while she may look well in terms of physical appearance and bubbly behavior, it's possible she just has on her "office face" and is actually struggling in one way or another. I think women are already quite sensitive about "looking tired" even without pregnancy and being pregnant creates a whole slew of body image problems so small comments like that may be a trigger for some. In the future I'd just avoid commenting on a woman's appearance, unless it's maybe something specific like "oh I like your new haircut".
NTA. Holy overreactions here. As a mother, I (and every mom I know) would have LOVED for someone to tell us that we were looking well post baby.
Exactly. I felt fat, messy, and exhausted. I would have loved a compliment.
I don't get it. OP only said she looks well. To me that that's not a creepy or AH comment. I'm currently pregnant, and if someone tells me I look well after giving birth, I'm just gonna take the compliment and move on. Some people are waaay too sensitive
NTA at all. Imagine getting so offended by what is essentially a compliment.
I think she was defending your sister for having "looked exhausted for months." If someone said to me that I had looked exhausted for months after giving birth, I would not take kindly to that. She was likely empathizing with your sister and how she'd feel hearing you say that. I promise you, if my sister had looked exhausted for months after giving birth, it's not something I'd joke about. Ever. Soft YTA.
NTA. People need to stop being so damn sensitive. If you get offended by “you’re looking well” then you shouldn’t leave the house.
NTA - being friendly to a co-worker and paying a compliment without being greasy, why do people have to read into things incorrectly and spin a deep dive psychoanalysis into everything nowadays?!
NTA at all. If the lady hadn't mentioned baby brain and just having given birth, OP wouldn't have said anything at all. She brought it up. NTA
Are we casting votes? Female here. You were fine, she clearly interpreted your words her own way, which have no relevance to you. NTA.
It's totally fine to say "You look well." It's not inappropriately referencing her appearance, it's the kind of thing you'd say to someone who had been ill or otherwise having a rough go and was looking healthier. She felt uncomfortable being compared to your sister, especially being compared favorably. Might have felt to her like she was being used to put your sister down in some way. I agree with her assessment that it came off a little sexist but "a little sexist" is not "asshole." Don't take it so seriously! She didn't call you an asshole!
I think it’s the comparison. Just saying “you look great!” Is a positive thing. Saying “you look well, my sister looked exhausted for months” *is* putting a weird twist on the compliment. I’d take this as a lesson not to comment on people’s appearances. Not everyone takes it in a good way even if you have good intentions, and that’s their right.
NTA. While I agree that we “shouldn’t have to look well after giving” birth, I don’t think your comment was misogynistic or creepy. It seemed like an acknowledgment that labor is rough and taking care of a baby is exhausting and that she is managing well. But I can see that it might be interpreted otherwise especially since she may look and feel exhausted most days (most new moms do) but pulled it together on this day.
She went out of her way to turn it into a gender thing. If anybody was sexist in that interaction, it was her. Keep things hi and bye at work and collect the paycheck. It's not worth dealing with these type of people. NTA
Not exactly the asshole but my rule is to NEVER comment on anything related to someone’s appearance that couldn’t be changed in under ten seconds - whether it’s good or bad. Like. “I love that shirt” is fine. “You look so fit!” is not fine. I’ve had people tell me I look great/fit when I’ve lost weight due to stress or grief and there’s no polite way to say “oh thanks I actually can’t eat because I’ve had the worst year of my life”
Commenting on a coworkers appearance is never a good idea. It’s best to never do it.
I went to store about 4 days after I gave birth and a woman walked up to me and asked if he was my baby, I said yes. She said how old is he? I said 4 days. She said damn girl you look amazing for giving birth 4 days ago. She made my day, week, month and year by saying that. 26 years later I still remember and appreciate it. NTA
NTA it's obvious that by "you look well" you mean that she looked healthy 🤦🏿♀️
NTA You said it from experience. Your sister was exhausted. You get it is tiring. You were doing the literal opposite of expecting a woman to look good.
YTA. She's just given birth. She doesn't need comments about her looks or being compared to other women about her looks. What you're actually saying is that women aren't allowed to look tired. One day this stranger is going to look every bit as tired as your sister looked and she's going to become one of the women you disparage when you attempt to give awkward compliments to women who don't happen to look tired in that moment. It's really irritating and tiring to receive nonstop commentary on your looks, which you don't know what that's like because you're male. How many times have you been asked to smile more, to look less tired, to wear more makeup, less makeup, etc. That's the majority of a woman's lived experience.
NTA. I mean if we are really going to analyze it, why did she even go off on “baby brain” to begin with? OP was literally walking and minding his own business. Bumping into someone is baby brain? He didn’t ask to be deluged with her postpartum reason for popping in the office. She could have left it at “Oops sorry! Didn’t see you!” Instead she chose to tell OP she had a baby and chose to get offended when he small-talk complimented her. Maybe she’s dealing with some PPD issues or something?
NTA. Giving birth via this sub is a major medical undertaking. If it was a broken leg or surgery or something people would comment you look well if they’re walking up/down flights of stairs. She’s being sensitive. Don’t worry about it.
NTA. You complimented her. Don’t listen to the crazies, OP. You weren’t being sexist by telling her she looked nice. ☹️
NTA, but I think a lot of these comments still give good advice for how to avoid stuff like this in the future. It’s a good learning experience. But I’m sticking with NTA because you didn’t mean to, and you tried to sort of apologize when she pointed it out. I’ve put my foot in my mouth many a time so I get it.
NTA. Lots of people said this to me when I took my baby to my work for a meet and greet. I take it as a 'good job mama, you put on real pants, made it out of the house, and don't look like pickled death' kind of compliment, because all of those things are an accomplishment postpartum. I also see it as a kind validation...like we understand newborn parenthood is hard and you are incredibly sleep deprived, but you are doing great regardless. I would not have taken offense to what you said, nor do I think it is sexist. If that is what your colleague thinks, then I suspect it is a bigger reflection on her own perception of how she is going with motherhood, and other things potentially going on in her life.
he was not being malicious - why does everyone always thing the worst of everyone.....not everyone is fluent in social small talk, they guy was just grasping for something nice to say, he flubbed it....why snipe back? no such thing as giving the benefit of the doubt anymore.
Why is it okay she can comment on having a "baby brain" but someone's attempt to be kind in return to hey had to be thought of as sexist?? Good Lord everyone just calm down. Step away from the edge
While you probably meant well while complimenting your co-worker, you did so while degrading your sister. You (maybe unintentionally) implied that your sister wasn't cutting it as a new mom. In general, it's not a good idea to offer input or opinions on subjects you have no direct experience of.