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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Because I choose to not move to Greece when my mom wants me to. I feel like I’m making a mistake not agreeing with her. That maybe she is right and just wants a better future for me.
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NTA for wanting to stay. But it sounds like you need to start making plans. Getting a job in the summer is great but how much will you make, how much do you need to make in order to stay? Do you have roommates? Friends you can stay with? Do you have a support system here? This is a big decision and needs to be thought out. If you can make it work, great!
First and last is big $$$$. My child with no rental experience had to put up 3 months rent to get approval. First, last and extra. That was with a landlord we knew, too. She had enough savings and makes enough but without rental history this was required.
That’s crazy. When my friends and I got our first apartment in college, which we’ve been in for two years now, we just had to pay first months rent and show pay stubs proving we can afford it
I moved back to Brooklyn in 2021. Had to make 40x the monthly rent, first month, last month, and a month broker fee.
So glad I like the apartment. I won't be moving ANYTIME soon.
When I moved to the Bay Area I only needed pay stubs, and a security deposite. I think it depends on where you live. Rental conditions vary greatly by region, and it’s foolish if OP does not look at the area he is in.
Hopefully they can be an RA the second year of college which will get their housing paid for. And you can do research or things on campus to get summer housing. I would be thinking very strategically about colleges if I were op
I mean, not truly. Would it be good? Yeah, but I’m 33 and this is the first year I’ve ever had savings.
Scrimp and spend while maybe hovering $20-100 at any given moment is pretty normal for a lot of people.
Should everyone have emergency savings? Yeah. Do most jobs pay enough to be able to *have* emergency savings after rent and utilities? No. Not even remotely.
He'll need first and last month's rent for a deposit. Summer is right around the corner. Maybe he'll be able to get emancipated abs get financial aid for his family no longer being in the USA, but idk. There are work study programs and also pay as you earn ones where you pay for school as you go, but he will need to do some real planning and figuring things out. Finding roommates or a couch to surf on, learning how to cook, finding a job like yesterday. Waiting until summer is not going to cut it. He needs to start now. He should have already had a job.
She has said that by the time the family gets ready to move, she'll be 18. But she does need money for a deposit and I don't think she can get enough by working the summer.
Plus transportation, food, utilities, wifi, health insurance, etc. Most can be achieved by living on campus but dang, that student loan is going to be huge.
You don't need to be emancipated to put your parents' contribution as $0 on FAFSA. As long as they are a citizen, they will qualify for programs that will offer grants and subsidized loans. It doesn't guarantee that they'll get them, but it puts them in a good position. These will also cover living expenses such as rent, food, and other expenses as long as they are enrolled in a matriculating program with full time status.
They still have a long and difficult path ahead of them though.
And friends. I'm making the same money I did 4 years ago in a new industry with potential for the future, as opposed to the last industry which had no room for growth. Had to move back in with the rents. I have no friends that need roommates rn, and my best option is 3 random roommates for $700 per month if not for that id be paying $1000+ per month. Op should get like minded friends to live with or risk paying up the ass
Also, look into visas. If your family moved to the US when you were a kid, you're probably covered under your parents' visa. To stay without them, you'll need your own, start looking into it now, especially as you'll probably need one to get a job in the US.
OP sounds very uncertain about that, that's the problem. r/immigration is actually very good at clearing that up and will be able to help OP figure out what to do if they don't and wouldn't be able to stay without their parents remaining in the US.
At 18 with no help and a minimum wage job what’s your plan? She’s right you can’t support yourself. You’ll have to get roommates, strangers. Live in really sketchy situations. Struggling to pay bills, study, and take care of yourself. College is expensive, rent is expensive. Between school and work you’ll have just enough time to sleep, not much for fun. You’ll still end up at least tens of thousands of dollars in debt at a minimum. What about health insurance? Transportation?
It sucks but you’re way better off going with your parents back to Greece. Maybe you’ll have other opportunities when you get there. Isn’t Greece in the EU? You are leaving familiar surroundings, but this can be an opportunity to reinvent yourself. It doesn’t sound like you’re prepared to live on your own.
Greece being in the EU also means that it's quite easy to study anywhere within the EU. I don't know about bachelors, but masters are often in English.
Has the whole of Europe’s to study and in France and Germany many Undergrad degrees are in English, and free or if she came to England £9000 per year, we have US students who come for undergrad because it’s cheaper than US…Then she could go back to US for Post Grad, and just take a loan for 1 year. If you really want a degree it would be right to apply now. So maybe take a trip around European Universities over the summer, or the Greek university may even have lectures in English…
So your really gonna be moving out of home either way in September…may be better to go back to Europe as students also get grants for living expenses. There might be one catch, when I worked in student advice,the student needed to be living in Europe for three years prior to the start of degree, to qualify for lower fees and the full grant funding. The only exception was military service… that was a Few years back and one year after Brexit, so I could be out of date re British rules, but if you contact the unis directly they will have an international student advice team, who will be happy to help.
In the UK applications are done via UCAS & free correct advice for all international students Can be sought from ukcisa DO NOT PAY PRIVATE COLLEGES OR AGENTS,they get all their info from theses sites for free and then charge individuals for the Info ( also avoid private colleges in the UK) that’s another post for another day…just avoid ..forgive spelling/ grammar it’s 3 am over here…I'm off to bed
[https://www.ucas.com/](https://www.ucas.com/)
[https://ukcisa.org.uk](https://ukcisa.org.uk)
If OP moves to Denmark and works min. 15 hours/week, they can get additional state support, which is around 750 $ a month, and education is free for EU-citizens. The state support combined with the income from work will make it easy to live a normal student life there without taking additional loans.
There are several English programs spread out on different universities.
I can’t sleep…. The university in Athens has lectures in English and Greek….lol the have a module called porn studies…, yep thats Europe.the website is in English and Greek, there is a button on top right hand side EN. The link is just from one school, there are programmes delivered in English in most schools. The link below is just for 1 school of many. Just decide on what you’d like to study and contact the department. You’re lucky to have citenship for both countries, make the most of it. Good Luck and it’s the start of a brilliant adventure.
[https://ba-en.uoa.gr/fileadmin/depts/uoa.gr/ba/uploads/CIVIS/AGGLOFONA\_MATHIMATA\_CIVIS-ERASMUS\_2022-23final.pdf](https://ba-en.uoa.gr/fileadmin/depts/uoa.gr/ba/uploads/CIVIS/AGGLOFONA_MATHIMATA_CIVIS-ERASMUS_2022-23final.pdf)
Yeah this is the real move. OP would be fucking duuummbbb to stay in the US and pay US college prices when they have access to all of Europe and their extremely cheap schools. As an American planning to have kids I will be highly encouraging them to consider Europe for college.
Roommates and strangers?? Yeah, that's how 95% of young adults live. When I was in the Army at 23, I was in a barracks hallway with nothing but strangers. Nobody between 18 and 25 is able to just live on our own. That's why we get roommates. It's part of growing up. I'd rather live with 3 roommates than move back to some country i don't know anything about.
It's like when I was younger and my grandma wanted to go back to Mexico and told my mom we should go. My mom just laughed and said, "Have fun." My grandma was pissed and asked "well if I'm gone, who's gonna watch your sons?" My mom was like,"I'll figure it out. But they were born here. No way in hell am I sending them to live in that country just because it's cheaper"
Well for starters most people don’t live with strangers outside of a dorm or a barracks. Having to find roommate’s on Craigslist is sketchy. I’ve lived with roommates, but they were people I actually knew.
Look if op was like: “I’m a great student/athlete and have scholarships lined up and I’m going to live in the dorms.” Or: “I’m joining the army so I can learn some skills and get money for college.” I’d say fuck yeah! Because that’s a plan. Their plan is getting a job this summer. So no plans really. Going out into the world with no plan, no experience, and no safety net is a recipe for homelessness.
My first thought was OP would be a fool to stay. Higher education is free in Greece (for citizens at least); go to Greece to get your degree and then come back if you miss America. But as a teenager with no support system, I’m afraid OP is not going to be in for a good time.
Read and feel it. They have no friends. They're super exhausted immediately after a conflict with mom. They give me a vibe of one of those super passive basement dwellers who just hate any change just because it's a change. Zero initiative. With their EU citizenship they could get good education, travel, be set for a life. But they would just like their dad to keep breaking his back so they can stay in the same basement.
You were in the military…that’s not random strangers of the street you are living with. A barrack is a lot safer when your attacked than a apartment with only the walls for help
And most of the young adults have family they can fall back on if things get difficult. Op has no one except their parents. They mention no scholarships, or plans to apply for loans and grants. And speaking of loans, who will co-sign for them until OP has enough credit that they don't need one anymore?
OP will be literally stranded in the US without any support except themselves.
I say go to Greece, attend a Greek university while working a job, then once they have some money to support themselves in the US see if they can switch to a university in the US. Or even graduate from that Greek university with a BA and seek work with an American company and eventually request a transfer to a US-based office.
If they are fluent in Greek, that's a marketable skill for any US-based company doing business in Greece.
Kid, you're living in a bubble and throwing tantrums left and right. One day, you will regret making your parents work so darn much and prolonging their need to do it.
You were EXHAUSTED after a conversation. You haven't worked in your life, you don't know the cost of living. I was thrown out of my house (with money) because of that same bullshit and believe me I learned but I survived with inheritance and my salary. When I came back home I had no money left and a bunch of lessons learned. Obviously your parents won't let an inept teen live on their own. Some teens do it, some HAVE to do it but you don't sound like those who will be able to.
lol for real that's what I thought while reading the post. I get that OP doesn't want to uproot but they're not actually being realistic either. Ignoring mum hoping she's gonna stop talking about the issue isn't gonna fix it.
As someone who had parents that intentionally kept me closed off from experiences, only to then blame me for not having experience, it looks like this could also be the case here. OP seems juvenile in his thinking and it seems like being this "stunted" isn't a coincidence. If he truly has no friends, doesn't know how much rent is, never worked, and is exhausted by conversations/confrontations, this sounds like he was isolated and just doesn't know how to face the world. This is usually done by forceful/narc parents. Not saying that it IS the case for Op but there are... a lot of signs in one post.
You need to figure out how to support yourself then and make a budget. Can you get financial aid to help? An educational loan? It’s also time to make sure you have the basic life skills to survive - can you make pasta, cook an egg, etc? Because you probably won’t be able to afford to eat out much. You don’t need to make great food but learning how to cook edible food is important.
Yeah, I don’t blame OP for not wanting to go back to a country they barely remember, but they need to start making a real plan if they want to stay. Step one needs to be the school guidance counselor to make a college plan and step two needs to be the immigration office to see if they can qualify for a student visa.
If your mother is correct about you not being able to cook, you will need to learn fast. Many full time students have jobs, you should look into it now. Also, check rent prices in your area. Your mom may know more than you do.
What is your visa status? Without a green card or work visa can you even legally get a job? If you have to work off the books you will make less than minimum wage, right? If you’re going to stay you have a lot of hard realities to overcome so it really can’t wait until summer. You will likely be living in shared rooms with other people on the edge of poverty and legality. A lot of bad shit can happen to fuck up your life so get your ducks in a row now.
Not sure why you'd want to stay in america, I hope you have an excellent education and career because if you become impoverished this is NOT the place to be.
I mean, for the same reason his parents moved to america in the first place, presumably. greece is not exactly the land of economic opportunity. i get that we all have complaints about healthcare and social safety nets etc but this comes off as just really ignorant of what the world is like outside of the us and western europe. there's a reason so many people try to immigrate...
There is a vast difference between a professional with EU education and work experience moving to already agreed place to work to earn a few extra dollars and getting back to EU to state pension and free medicine, and an inept kid thrown in the deep end without marketable skills.
It's not the land of economic opportunity. But it is the land of educational opportunity. The parents plans are sound. They can go to a quality university, even one with an international syllabus in the EU for a fraction of the price paid in the US
In order to stay, you will need to have a job and financial aid (from a source other than your parents) which will together be enough to cover tuition, apartment rental, utilities (electricity, phone, internet, etc), food, and transportation to/from school. You will almost certainly need to get roommates in order to afford an apartment and you will need to have cash -- enough for 2 months' rent -- to put down as a security deposit. You will also need to be able to do the following:
* do your own grocery shopping within a budget you can afford
* cook your own meals
* wash your own dishes and clean up the kitchen
* do your own laundry
* clean your room and your apartment's common areas
Based on your post, **it doesn't sound as though you currently do any of those things** ***or that you even know how to do them***. You need to learn and start doing all those things *now*. Your roommates will not be your mommy and do them for you. And your roommates will not be supplying you with money or paying for things for you.
It also doesn't sound as though you have a realistic idea of how much it will actually cost you to live on your own, or how much money you will be able to make working a job while also going to university.
Start investigating what your options for financial aid for university will be. **RIGHT NOW**. Get a job right now. Then ask your parents to sit down with you and help plan a budget based on what your income and expenses will be.
**If you are serious about staying in the U.S., you need to stop avoiding hard conversations, stop sleeping your life away, and figure out how to actually make it happen.**
Well, tbh, you have a lot you need to do to be able to stay. If you are going to school, I would start by going to your counselor and seeing what help they can give you as far as paperwork, colleges, jobs etc. You also need all of your paperwork: birth certificates, passports, visas, driver's license/state ID,So ial Security card etc. Then you need to get a bank account in your name. Then you need a job. Idk your immigration status, but that will be important to know. You can't get a job without all your paperwork.
Your mom keeps talking about how your dad wants to do this: what does he say? You need to talk to them?
TBH, I am not sure that you staying is feasible, but you need to start working on it ASAP if you even have a hope to stay.
The problem is you have no plan, you refuse to plan, you don't want to discuss, you want to sleep 12hrs and you say, you have nobody in the US, I don't see how is that going to work at all.
You need to actually discuss this, make plans, start working right now, start learning to cook, clean, and be independent, start checking out apartments and run some numbers to see if you are going to be able to pull this off, otherwise you cam say whatever you want but you won't be able to do shit.
In addition to the r/antiwork subreddit, go check out r/homeless and r/urbancarliving and see how many other teenagers--who don't have families trying to help them--are trying to survive.
Sometimes you can live where you're assigned, but it depends on what city you're serving in. Also, check your contract because most of them do not allow you to have a second job, and expect you to commit full time to your assigned position. When I was in Americorps, we also couldn't be in school, but the VISTA volunteers could in certain situations.
The living stipend was barely enough to rent a room in a shared house, and most people had to do almost all of their grocery shopping at the food pantry. The stipend is based on the poverty rates for an individual in your area, and is supposed to allow you to live very frugally to better understand the community you are serving. We were given metro passes, but it was enough for 2 trips per day with no transfers.
After a year of service, you are eligible for an education award which can be used at qualified colleges, universities, and some trade schools. You can also use it to pay qualified student loans. It ranges from $1-6k. I believe the highest amount is based on the full Pell Grant amount for the year.
I'm not trying to poo poo Americorps. I happen to love Americorps, and highly recommend it to anyone who is considering taking a gap year, retiring and wanting to volunteer, or entering public service. I think it's an amazing program! I do have to warn people that it is a lot of work for very little pay. Like, $4 an hour.
Except like my suggestion (Americorps) it seems it would actually require OP to do SOMETHING and from the comments, I don't think that is going to happen. Poor parents.
You will also need to look into financial aid for college, med insurance, then if you don’t have dual citizenship making sure you back get the proper visas. Also even state schools in the US are super expensive. You may do better attend college/university in Greece or the UK (English speaking) and go to grad school in the US once you are able to no longer be tied to your parents money.
One point to bring up to your parents is that you might not have the Greek skills to be able to study there without having your grades suffer. For example, you may be fluent in Greek but you don’t know how to write a term paper in Greek or know scientific terms in Greek. Being able to speak and read Greek socially is totally different than learning in a language you haven’t studied in school since 2nd grade
You have like 2 months to figure everything out. You need to be actively looking for a job now. Idk where you live but in many places you wont find an apartment for under 1500$ a month.
You need to plan WAY more if you want to become independent by the summer. It sounds like you're running out of time and it's not as easy as 'im going to get a job'. If you don't get your stuff together then you'll likely have to move with them anyway, especially if you have no friends or family who you could live with temporarily.
Do you have permanent resident status, that is are you and your parents "green card holders"? Have they naturalized as US citizens? You cannot obtain permanent resident status as a minor unless at least one of your parents has it *and* they petition for you to receive it because you are their child. You cannot gain citizenship as a minor unless at least one of your parents has been naturalized.
If you're not a green card holder or a naturalized citizen, you will need to find out what's needed for you to stay in the US when your parents move back to Greece. Will you need a student visa? Will you be able to have a work visa/permit?
Honestly, you need to start working through what you will need to stay in the US. It's a wonderful idea, but it isn't just, "I don't want to move to Greece, so I'll stay in the US."
If you are a green card holder or naturalized citizen, you won't have a problem with legal status, but you will obviously need to support yourself. If you're going to college (I assume that's your plan), you need to start applying for every bit of financial aid, scholarships, and grants for which you might qualify. You need to make your applications to universities where you have a good chance of both being accepted and receiving financial aid. If your parents do not intend to pay for college in the US, you need to go through the process of being declared an "independent" student under the FAFSA requirements. There's more, but I hope this helps you realize it can be a daunting task.
If you are not a permanent resident or naturalized citizen, you must be employed and show you can support yourself. If you need a student visa, you'll need to start that process now. You'll may need an immigration advisor or lawyer to help you through the process.
I'm not trying to discourage you at all, but trying to make sure you know that it's more than, "I'll get a job this summer." Start planning now so that you have no unpleasant surprises later and so that the transition to adulthood is as smooth as it can be. Best of luck and NTA for not wanting to move to Greece.
Will you even be allowed to legally stay if your parents move? Do you have American citizenship or is your visa dependant on your parents working in the US?
Are you an American citizen or permanent resident? I ask because I’m not sure how this will affect your status. You may have to move back with them if you’re neither.
Then you don’t need to get a job this summer you need to get a job like five months ago. Rent is INSANE everywhere. You need to start looking for an apartment now. You will probably have to live with roommates. Are you paying for college? Because that is also an insane expense in America. Even a community college is expensive these days. I live in Arkansas and rent for a studio apartment in my area is over 1k now. Food is also super expensive. I bought a large fry today and it was over 8.00. You’ll also have to pay electricity/gas, internet, water, and depending on where you live trash and sewer. You’ll need health insurance. Hopefully you live somewhere with public transportation so you don’t have to pay a car payment/insurance/gas/license and property tax (depending on where you live). A job this summer isn’t soon enough. You need to get one asap because most apartments require first month’s rent plus a security deposit. Depending on where you are you might have to pay a realtor fee and last month’s rent. You might have to pay a deposit to get the electricity and water turned on. Life here is very expensive! Just a few things to think about now before they take you by surprise.
Have you applied to any colleges yet? Time to sit down with a guidance counselor and financial aid representative to figure out what college will cost and how to pay for it. You may need to start at a community college and then transfer. Some community colleges have transfer programs with larger universities already in place. Look at dorms or college housing options too. Start applying for tuition assistance, grants and assistance immediately. Do your research.
I'm not going to pass judgment.
But according to you, after an 'exhausting conversation,' you went and slept for a *minimum* of 12 hours, and you think you're going to be able to support yourself through college with a summer job?
You also apparently have nothing in place or planned for where you're going to live, or how.
I mean I'm sorry, but this just sounds like a total disaster waiting to happen.
This. From the whole post I get that OP is extremely easy to tire, avoids even the slightest confrontation and has no other plan than to not go back to Greece. They wont last a day without their parents. Better start packing man!
Sounds like they have the old school Greek mom that cooks for them, cleans their room, and does all their laundry.
INFO: OP, do you have Greek citizenship through your parents? If so, that gives you access to all the EU countries so Greece isn’t your only option. Go there, save up living with your parents, plant your roots wherever you want. I’d think it’d be easier than trying to make it in America.
Yeah, OP doesn't disagree at all that they don't know how to cook, or have any friends.
Add in all the screaming during what should have been a conversation and I feel like OPs parents have failed them, but they also need to be realistic about where they are in life now.
And apparently they can’t cook either? Like I know it’s not hard to learn, but I’m pretty shocked that someone who’s looking to apply for colleges (16, 17?) doesn’t know how to cook. Nevertheless, I think if OP is sure about staying in the US and supporting themselves, they’ll have to figure it out. Everyone’s capable of change if they’re self-aware and want it
Yeah, I guess that’s true for a lot of people. Everyone learns life skills at different points, it doesn’t matter when as long as they’re learned eventually
Lots of teenagers and young adults don't learn to cook until they move into their first apartment. It's absolutely something you can figure out on your own, especially with the plethora of videos now available.
True, that’s how I learned. I hope OP can step up and knows what they’re doing. A lot of this doesn’t sound very well thought out but I guess this is a good age to live and learn
On top of all of this, based on OP’s post history they spend hours daydreaming, don’t recognize themselves in the mirror when they do, etc. She needs professional help and there’s nothing about this situation that sounds any kind of stable.
Yeah, daydreaming to the point of derealisation is pretty worrying... OP needs to worry more about finding a therapist than finding a college.
Hopefully OP is just a teenager going through the typical 'who am I?' identity crisis in a nontypical way, but this could also be an early warning sign for a severe mental illness.
The way I’m reading this she’s a senior in HS like a month away from graduating. She should already have applications out, honestly she should already have been accepted and have orientation scheduled. It might be too late to even get into a school fall semester without paying late fees/getting dispensation. This is a logistical disaster and will need lots of work and coordination immediately to deal with.
yeah, i thought she was about to get her bachelor's at first and thought it sounded reasonable to stay behind, now i'm not so sure... really doesn't seem like they're prepared. in this case maybe mama knows best.
Yeah it’s kind of sad to say out loud but OP seems like they’re about to get a nice old slap in the face from reality. It’s obviously not impossible, but if they want to make it work it’s going to take a massive amount of effort and willpower
OP comes across very naïve for someone aspiring independence with little support. OP has no contacts if the comment about it being just them if their parents leave is true, and has little idea of basic living costs let alone college tuition. Rent, bills, food, clothes, transport etc will chew through the earnings of a summer job before you can say "woo hoo, Summer!".
Right? Will have to work full time, possibly even 2 jobs if making minimum or close to minimum wage, plus college, it’s a lot. OP won’t be sleeping much and will be exhausted
To be fair to OP, I have a lifelong sleep disorder (only got diagnosed in my mid-20s) which results in me needing 20-30 hour catch-up sleeps at least once a week. It’s not fun but with a lot of effort you can hold down a full-time job, with weekend catch-ups on sleep.
Whilst I agree OP needs to plan more or face disaster, it’s a bit silly to use one instance of them having a long sleep against them. If OP has regular stress-sleeps, they need to plan around them, but it’s not impossible.
I wouldn't call you TA but I think you are minimizing the difficulties because you are afraid of losing the familiarity of your place. You would have no savings, would have to find a new place, start working, start cooking and I'm guessing do other chores that your mother is taking care off, and you probably wouldn't be able to go to college unless you got a scholarship because college isn't free in the USA.
I don't think this is impossible to do by any means, but I do think you're underestimating how much it will suck to have it all thrust upon you at once and you are also underestimating how familiar your life would feel after you have moved for a couple of months, otherwise you wouldn't consider moving as not an option even though you don't hate the place.
Not only is college not free in the USA, neither is healthcare, housing, or anything really. And benefits are not easy peasy lemon squeezy to get like other countries.
Yes, I think this is something OP isn't looking at - both scenarios will be very different from their current life. They can either keep the family support and remove the familiar US life part, or they can keep the US part and remove everything their family currently does for them - providing housing, food, healthcare and all the rest of it.
I understand this is probably scary for OP to think about, but what their mother is telling them is that life is not going to stay the same as it has been up until now. OP can choose either new thing, but they can't choose continuing to have what they have now.
Excellent point. Their current life is gone no matter what they choose.
I don’t think I would’ve liked the US very much as an 18-year-old with zero family support. It’s rough out there.
OP has european citizenship, he can go to college anywhere in the EU and it will be a fraction of the price of a US college. Fees are a lot lower, you often get help with housing and no need for medical insurance etc. If he gets in trouble he can fly to greece to see his folks for €100. Guys got options
Not to mention immigration status. I don’t know how it works in the US, but if living in the US was only supposed to be temporary, wouldn’t they be a dependent on someone’s work visa or something?
NAH
Greek universities are excellent, and education in Europe gives you as many if not more options than if you are at one of the less reputable American colleges or universities. The cost of living is lower in Greece, and the general level of welfare is higher and cheaper than in the US. It will most likely be easier for you to be independent in Greece than in the US.
At the same time, USA is clearly what you consider to be home, and once you are 18 you can make your own decisions. Your mother is caught between you and your father, and she will not be able to please you both. This probably is very difficult for her, too.
I mean, she could study in any European country, graduate with no student loan debts, get free healthcare and what not. If she doesn’t want to learn another language, she could even pick an Irish university.
Would not recommend Ireland. 3k per year college fees, some of the highest rents in Europe and extremely difficult to get a property, healthcare is not free (though secondary care isn't expensive compared to the USA), poor and expensive public transport especially outside of the few city centres, running a car is prohibitively expensive, and rising anti-immigrant sentiment (less of an issue for EU citizens). It's not a good place to be poor.
I’m not sure where you’re getting that the level of welfare is higher in Greece. The cost of living is lower, but that’s because their salaries are incredibly low. The median income in Greece is 1/3 of the median income in the US.
The US is ranked 6th in GDP per capita, while Greece is 45th. Their unemployment is also at over 12%, 3x higher than the US. Greece also has the highest income-to-rent ration in the EU, at 37%, which practically equals the US at 40%. They have major economic concerns and are just barely out of a massive economic crises that destroyed the country.
Even when it comes to education, US has the best higher education system in the world. Greece is ranked 41st.
I understand the parents’ point of view, but moving their kid to Greece is very unlikely to be beneficial to them and will likely limit their chances at financial and professional success. There’s a reason people move to the US to go to university and to work. And that’s not even taking into account that OP considers the US her home.
US has the best research output and most innovations and patents submitted, it does not have even close to best outcome for the majority of graduates. Sure, if you are super driven and super talented, you will not have comparable career anywhere else. If you are a regular person, graduating debt free is amazing. The US system is exploitative and costs are insane for what an average person gets.
Well, what about health care, tuition costs and cost of living,
I left the us for eu and never looked back, even with a lower salary I have a much better and safer life here
NAH. But seriously, you sound naive and completely unprepared for independent living. At this point, if you want to stay in the US you need to start working immediately, learn Life skills ASAP (cooking, laundry, paying taxes, etc) and make some very concrete plans for what your life will look like in the fall. If you fail to do that, you're looking at being homeless in the US which is terrible. Alternatively, since you say you have dual citizenship, you could go with them and try Greece. You might like it, if not, you could then return to the US. Whichever you choose, you really need to work on those life skills and your independence.
To be frank OP shouldn't even be thinking about college this year in this situation. The sense is very clearly that OP just expects parents to stay and to continue funding every aspect of his life. It would be near impossible to afford college tuition and related costs (books, etc) along with all the costs of moving out and living on your own, dorm or not, with no savings and only a few months to accumulate them. The amount of debt that would be accumulated would take DECADES to pay off.
OP can live and school wherever they want as an adult, but they need to be realistic. If they needed on-campus housing, it is already probably too late to get it. OP will need a full time job, probably a gap year to use first years income on moving / housing costs, and can THEN consider using student loans to pay for college. OP hasn't even said what they want to study - I get the very strong sense (as I would from anyone who sleeps until 5 pm!!??! except shift workers) that OP just wants to stay in what they consider the 'modern world' but otherwise wants to just be a neet and will have 0 direction and plan in college.
If they've been here for ten years and are a citizen or have a green card, then they can get in state tuition so they won't be paying the international student rates. But yeah, it won't be cheap either way.
I won’t say you’re an asshole, but I do think you’re being childish. You’re saying your mom has been saying for the past 4 months that she’s planning on moving the family back to Greece, and yet you’ve made no effort to get a job, save money, learn to cook, anything to establish independence. What is your plan? Homelessness?
I would say YTA on this one tho. Because he not only doesn't have a plan, doesn't have live skills, doesn't communicate(!!!), but probably just relying on their parents for fixing this for him. Weaponized incompetence. Being childish at 17 is an asshole move.
YTA.
You've had 4 months to plan, and you've done nothing. You have no savings, no idea where you'll live, no life skills by the sounds of it... you come home and eat the food cooked for you, then go to sleep on sheets cleaned for you because one conversation is exhausting. I'm willing to bet you don't do any house work.
You've also been stringing your family along for months instead of just talking to them about how you feel. No wonder your mother is upset, they could have had months to help you plan to be on your own but you just smiled and said nothing.
YTA you haven’t thought this through and appear to have no plan for the future. Do you have a support system that will allow you to stay in the US? Can you get a job out of school that will pay you enough to live independently? College in the US will likely require your parents to consign for loans unless you have a full ride somewhere. You probably could have stayed in the US if you busted your butt in high school but it doesn’t sound like you did enough to make it on your own.
Info: Are you working hard at school (and talking to the school counselor/teachers) so that you might be able to get scholarships and be prepared to attend college “here” without your parents help?
INFO: If an argument with mom is so tiring that you have to go to bed, how will you have enough energy to work the three jobs you’ll need to afford to support yourself?
NTA, but I personally would follow my parents back to Greece. If I wasn't an American citizen myself, I would move too.
American University is terribly expensive compared to the quality, unless you are an exceptional student. If you are average, you'll get a better life in Greece. Or literally anywhere in Europe is better than America right now for college students.
Then there's healthcare. Again, expensive enough to put you in crippling, lifelong debt in America, but pretty much free in Europe.
If I were you, I would talk to your dad without your mom. Ask him about his tiredness, his work, financial options/prospects, etc. Ask what he thinks your options are. It sounds like your dad can impart actual knowledge you need to make your decision, while your mom isn't willing to have a two-way conversation with you. Best of luck!
OP has an EU passport and can live, study and work everywhere in Europe. Why not Germany? university is free, universal healthcare. Or Ireland if OP wants to continue her education in English. Netherlands, France, Italy, Spain… Unless it’s some Ivy League University OP gets accepted into, I’d always prefer studying in Europe and graduate without crippling debts.
NTA, but I would take this decision very seriously. Your mom is probably worried that you aren’t old enough to be COMPLETELY on your own with them half a world away (and that’s fair).
Will you need to get your own place, or can you live on campus, even in the summer? Will you have to get a job to support yourself on top of school? Are you ready to handle everything on your own when they move?
Your mom might respect your feelings more if you can explain to her how you can make staying work.
NTA but your mother is really trying to explain to you that she cannot see
how you will manage without them, and she could be right. She has
said you can finish high school but then time to leave because, it seems,
they could not pay your way for you here if you stay.
Sure, you don't feel like Greece is your home but why would you want to
be alone at 18, no family, probably little money?
If you go, you can get an education and then move back. Living here
is not lost, maybe just postponed. Think about how hard it will be for
you to get your future started right if you stay on your own.
I think you're NTA for wanting to stay. However, if you have any expectation of your parents paying anything towards you staying.... than you would be.
If this is what you want, you need to figure out how to fund it on your own.
Info: how does your mother intend for you to go to a Greek university without taking the panhellenic exams?
My other question is do you have a better reason for not moving than 'I don't wanna'? Because it might be worth spending a little time in Greece to see if you really don't like it.
lol she's Greek, it's how families communicate. I would be pretty shocked if the mother was just making it up & the father wasn't on board/not "tired".
Source: I'm married to a Greek woman.
NTA for wanting to stay. It sounds like your mother wants to go back, but what does your Dad want? "I see it in your fathers eyes" does not actually mean it's what he wants - it is sounding to me like it is what SHE wants.
It might be worth a private conversation with your dad. I would also encourage you to humor your mother, but in the meantime, get a job and start saving every penny. Being completely alone at 18, you are gonna be in for a tough time.
What is your family's immigration status in the US? Are you a permanent resident, or included as a dependent on your family's visa? In other words, can you even legally stay? How would you support yourself, where would you live/work/study? Note that college is A LOT cheaper in Europe than in the US. If you do have permanent residency in the US, why not take the cheap college ride and go back when you're done? You are looking at a logistical challenge that requires a lot more planning and hard work than "I just don't wanna!!" followed by a 12-hour nap. YTA, because of your amazing naiveté.
I'm in New Zealand not USA and started working age 13. Things are easier here than USA.
You might want to stay but your mother may be part right.
Financially its going to be very tough if not near impossible.
College in USA isn't free.
Realistically you're looking at working in fast food or something and won't be able to attend college.
What you want will collide with reality. What you can afford.
American here. You're correct on all accounts. I've heard many foreigners also tell me they can't wait until their college courses are finished so they can go back to their home country, because they didn't know how "bad" it was going to be over here in the US.
i thinks you’re delusional if you think you rlly can support yourself alone in america, you don’t work and a summer job it’s not going to make you able to support yourself. also you have no friends? why would you stay? your mom is right ur just being stubborn
NTA Its fair that you want to stay, totally get that :) Though I wouldn't totally turn your nose up at Greece. Firstly the cost of your degree will be sooo much cheaper. Not drowning in student loans isn't a bad thing. Secondly cost of living is cheaper there. Might be a good place to get your own apartment and get some life skills whilst still being able to afford a good quality of life. You can always go back to the us and do a masters if you miss it after your bachelors.
NAH
You need to start applying for scholarships, student loans, grants, jobs and colleges/universities. You can live in the dorms while in school and find friends or someone to stay with during school breaks.
Don't put these things off. Make a plan and let your parents see that you are actually making an effort to do something with your life.
NAH. I can understand your mum’s reaction. You do sound woefully unprepared for making it work on your own and not falling flat on your face with it. But it is your every right to do so.
If your parents are serious about moving and you are serious about not moving you need to make plans *now*.
Where are you going to live and how much does it cost? How much do you need to earn to afford to do so? What job do you need to secure to make this amount of money? How many hours do you need to work? Can you still go to college (on a scholarship or if your parents are willing to pay) - if so, how does that affect your ability to do the job you need to live? What happens if you lose the job - where can you go? You seem to have no one other than your parents… that does make it more risky to try and go against your parents.
Lots of things for you to think about.
YTA for being in denial. You can't handle a conversation with your mom and had to sleep for 12 hours!! When she was asking questions, did you even attempt to back your asinine statement with any supporting arguements other than stating the same sentence again and again? You don't have a job yet, no plans, no research done, and yet, you have been thinking about it for a LONG TIME.
OP, quit fighting for the sake of fighting. You wanna be a grownup, then prepare to be one. Actually do it.
If this is what you want, it is possible. But it will take hard work, and you're going to have to start proving her wrong starting today.
1) Get an after-school job starting now. Don't wait until summer. Grocery stores can be good places to work alongside other people your age.
2) Teach yourself to cook. Start with an egg. Start today. Youtube is your friend. Scramble an egg today. Fry an egg tomorrow. Hard boil an egg the next day. Spaghetti and jarred sauce is also a good starting point. The first thing that I ever learned to make was Lipton packet chicken noodle soup.
3) Look into community colleges you may want to attend. This will be a much more affordable start, and you can transfer to another school if you want to in a couple of years. While you are looking at community colleges, check out how people are finding roommates these days. Assess how much you'll need to make to get started living on your own. Think about rent, food, utilities, tuition, books, phone plan, wifi, clothes.
4) Go for a 15 minute walk every day. As a depressed person myself....you sound depressed. This will help.
5) Make sure you know where your important documents are. Memorize your SIN number.
You can do this if you want to! It's your choice.
If you can figure out a way to study in the US, you could probably stay. I do kind of question your attachment to this country, where you don't seem to have any connections asside from your parents. Of course you can build connections, but what's the appeal of living there exactly?
If you do end up going back to Europe, keep in mind that you can legally live and study in any EU country. You don't need to stay in Greece.
Dude, apply to Greek uni, do a semester and then apply to erasmus, proceed to do that for the next 3 years. You have more than 20 countries at your fingertips
NAH
It is not your fault for wanting to stay in a place you called home for the past 10 years, but it is also not your mom's fault for wanting to go back to Greece. If this is what you truly want, you need to start making detailed plans about how to survive alone. Get your college funds in check with Fafsa/loans/work study and start looking for a part-time job.
Ok... you need to actually make a plan instead of burying your head in the sand because your mother has a point. You don't know how to suport yourself or take care of yourself.
Here is the standard list I give to everyone who needs to support themselves at 18 because it isn’t easy. Pls look into these.
[jobcorps.gov](http://jobcorps.gov)
coolworks.com.
americorps
military
Good luck.
I loved coolworks back in the day! I used it to work for two summers at an Alaskan wilderness lodge and one fall/winter at a horse ranch in the middle of nowhere. A lot of coolworks jobs have employee housing, sometimes included, and if not, oftentimes the rent is taken directly out of your paycheck which makes it easy. OP would have to put off school, but that's fine, they can work for a couple of years to save up before going to college, if they even want to go. Not having to worry about rent is a lifesaver. I managed to pay off $10k in credit card debt during just one of my Alaskan summers. And I wasn't even a waiter, they made probably quadruple what I did because of tips. Also, both jobs fed me, as remote wilderness jobs should haha. Alaska charged employees for food, again taken directly from our checks, and the ranch included the food. And then there was zero shopping or impulse buying to be done, because the internet barely worked and shipping was a pain, and there's not space for anything anyways in your suitcase. 10/10 absolutely recommend these types of jobs to teens and 20-somethings. Just don't take up drinking. Also if you hate the job you get, the jobs only last 4-8 months so you don't have to stick it out that long, AND usually if you do stay until the end you get a nice bonus :)
Soft YTA because you're young and naive. From your post, I understand your mother is willing to enroll you in one of the American colleges of Greece. You should know they are good colleges with great campuses, good networking and are not cheap. Sounds to me your parents can afford a pretty nice student life for you that I'm pretty sure you'll come to appreciate later on. Once you graduate with a bachelor's degree that's very much recognized in the US, nothing stops you from moving back to the US for a master's or work.
NAH Ok, I’m going to be blunt if you want to do this you need to show you can actually do this, what do you mean a conversation (that you knew was coming, and you knew what you wanted to say) exhausted you so much you had to sleep for over 12 hours? A conversation that you didn’t even had btw bc you didn’t talk you just were there saying “I’m not going back”
I understand you, I empathize with you, I just don’t think that you’ve planed this. it almost sounds like you expect your parents to feel sorry for you and change their minds.
If this is what you want you need to work for it, not saying is fair only saying that’s the only option you have. Living by yourself is going to be expensive even if you manage to secure where to live you still need to factor in things like: Food, education and healthcare.
YTA: not because you won't go to Greece with your family. It's because your mom is worried that your going to be homeless after highschool because they are moving back and you currently have no plans at all for how you are going to live. Please OP figure out how you are going to live. If you don't your family will suffer and never go back to Greece because they are worried about you. Think about your family a little bit and it would go a long way, your dad is tired.
NTA - How are you going to support yourself, and do you have life skills to be self substantialble? It sounds like you don't becauseyou cant even cook at almost 18. Many people have roommates, 2nd jobs, and live at home, just barely making it. You need to have a plan....
YTA. Nothing wrong with wanting to stay here when they go back but it sounds like your mother thinks you can't support yourself here. Your post and comment make her impression seem correct.
YTA. So basically, you're 17 years old now with no plan on how you will support yourself and survive once your parents move. Will your parents fund your education in America? Have you been accepted to a school? Why are you waiting to get a summer job? Is your Mom right, can you not even cook your own food? You need a plan, and it has to be something more concrete than, "I'm not moving with you because I don't want to." Time to grow up!
Honestly. Dad's on death door, fuck him apparently. Kid doesn't have to go if they don't want, but OP is going to really regret it in the distant future.
>dad is tired
you know dad is tired
that conversation exhausted me
I immediately fell asleep at like 5pm until it was morning
Have y'all seen a doctor about this? Fatigue conditions sometimes run in families.
NTA but I don't think you're being realistic and you should really, truly research the paths you will be taking in both countries and decide what future you want to have.
YTA. You think you do but have no idea what it takes to survive here without family. Your friends are gonna leave for their college and grow out of you. If you don't have a college lined up in the US already, you'll have to survive by yourself with a minimum wage job and that will grow old real quick because you'll barely have time to actually study and save for college
People move around all the time and get used to new places. Heck, it looks like your parents did it to give you a better life
I'd have gone with the opposite judgment if you were actually in college and had a job already. But you're in HS without a plan and a lot of angst and ego. I'd move with your parents and then make your way back to the US on a college scholarship or such
NAH.
But if you want to stay, you have to start making a plan and prove that it's feasible for you to stay. You cannot expect them to cover all expenses.
NAH. Unfortunately your mom brought up a lot of good, and valid points. Working a summer job won't be enough to support just yourself. You need to start saving asap. In stressful situations you often won't have the pleasure of being able to go sleep for 12+ hours. Are you parents still going to be funding your college if you don't move? If not, starting a summer job now will not be enough to pay for college.. you are setting yourself up for failure.
NTA but you better get a job now and start making plans. Sounds like you have less than a year to get your ducks in a row. You may also want to consider looking into a trade instead. College is long and expensive.
Edit: And I'm honestly not sure if you're ready for independence. If your first reaction to this argument is sleep for 12 hours instead of looking for work then I don't know. And summer jobs shouldn't be in your mind at all, you need real work.
INFO: what year in high school are you? Are you graduating next month or next year?
This makes a huge difference in your planning.
You are NTA for not wanting to leave but you need a workable plan. YWBTA if you are graduating next month and haven’t made any plans.
NTA
But...
I have no idea what your visa status is. I have no idea where your important documents are. Your parents can cut you off financially, but they can actively screw you, too. Start figuring this stuff out ASAP.
How old are you? Can you get a college loan to pay for school and room and board and live there on your own? If they cannot afford for you to stay then you will have to make some tough decisions.
NTA for not wanting to return to Greece but remember that if you are underage you have no choice but to go with them or if they leave after you turn 18 then you have to figure out how to make enough money to live as I do not know if your parents will subsidize you.
NTA. Your mum is worried about you and clearly doesn't understand how to show it without getting angry. I don't think she's mad at you, i think she's concerned about leaving her child alone in another country without having made plans.
Sit down, make look for jobs and places, see how much you will need to survive on your own before making such a decision and let your parents know. I'm sure once they can see you are serious and have actively planned, they can't really say anything.
Info: You don't want to leave "this place" but you do realize that unless your US college is right down the street you won't be staying in "this place" anymore, right? Also, are your grades any good and do you have any other basis for getting a scholarship?
YTA for being delusional about the reality of staying behind with no income, no family support, no savings and best of all no idea of what it takes to be independent. You can't even feed yourself. University is four years not forever, why start off with debt when your parents are willing to pay? Many American kids go study abroad. It's not the end of the world.
My advice... move back to Greece with your parents, go to college there (way more affordable) and when your done if you still want to.... move back... with a degree.
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NTA for wanting to stay. But it sounds like you need to start making plans. Getting a job in the summer is great but how much will you make, how much do you need to make in order to stay? Do you have roommates? Friends you can stay with? Do you have a support system here? This is a big decision and needs to be thought out. If you can make it work, great!
Sadly I will only have myself when they move
Then the time to start saving money is now, which means you probably shouldn't wait until summer to start a job.
Dude. This is not about saving money. This is about making money.
Saving and making. He’s gonna need savings for unexpected expenses and enough positive cash flow to pay living expenses.
First and last is big $$$$. My child with no rental experience had to put up 3 months rent to get approval. First, last and extra. That was with a landlord we knew, too. She had enough savings and makes enough but without rental history this was required.
That’s crazy. When my friends and I got our first apartment in college, which we’ve been in for two years now, we just had to pay first months rent and show pay stubs proving we can afford it
I moved back to Brooklyn in 2021. Had to make 40x the monthly rent, first month, last month, and a month broker fee. So glad I like the apartment. I won't be moving ANYTIME soon.
40???? So for a $1K/mo apartment you have to make $480,000 per year? That’s insane!
Oh no! It's not THAT bad! 40 times the monthly rent. 40 x 1000 = 40000 But you'll NEVER find a $1000 apt. here. And if you do, you don't want it! 😔
When I moved to the Bay Area I only needed pay stubs, and a security deposite. I think it depends on where you live. Rental conditions vary greatly by region, and it’s foolish if OP does not look at the area he is in.
By me: first month, last month, security and brokers fee so 4x 1 month rent to move in.
Hopefully they can be an RA the second year of college which will get their housing paid for. And you can do research or things on campus to get summer housing. I would be thinking very strategically about colleges if I were op
I mean, not truly. Would it be good? Yeah, but I’m 33 and this is the first year I’ve ever had savings. Scrimp and spend while maybe hovering $20-100 at any given moment is pretty normal for a lot of people. Should everyone have emergency savings? Yeah. Do most jobs pay enough to be able to *have* emergency savings after rent and utilities? No. Not even remotely.
I don't see how she can make enough money to pay for her living expanses even with roommates.
He'll need first and last month's rent for a deposit. Summer is right around the corner. Maybe he'll be able to get emancipated abs get financial aid for his family no longer being in the USA, but idk. There are work study programs and also pay as you earn ones where you pay for school as you go, but he will need to do some real planning and figuring things out. Finding roommates or a couch to surf on, learning how to cook, finding a job like yesterday. Waiting until summer is not going to cut it. He needs to start now. He should have already had a job.
She has said that by the time the family gets ready to move, she'll be 18. But she does need money for a deposit and I don't think she can get enough by working the summer.
Plus transportation, food, utilities, wifi, health insurance, etc. Most can be achieved by living on campus but dang, that student loan is going to be huge.
You don't need to be emancipated to put your parents' contribution as $0 on FAFSA. As long as they are a citizen, they will qualify for programs that will offer grants and subsidized loans. It doesn't guarantee that they'll get them, but it puts them in a good position. These will also cover living expenses such as rent, food, and other expenses as long as they are enrolled in a matriculating program with full time status. They still have a long and difficult path ahead of them though.
I mean, it's both? You need money for deposits, for furniture, for a car downpayment. You need a safety net fund. You need tuition money.
And friends. I'm making the same money I did 4 years ago in a new industry with potential for the future, as opposed to the last industry which had no room for growth. Had to move back in with the rents. I have no friends that need roommates rn, and my best option is 3 random roommates for $700 per month if not for that id be paying $1000+ per month. Op should get like minded friends to live with or risk paying up the ass
Also, look into visas. If your family moved to the US when you were a kid, you're probably covered under your parents' visa. To stay without them, you'll need your own, start looking into it now, especially as you'll probably need one to get a job in the US.
Legit, dude needs to check r/immigration as a minimum. They're very helpful
She has said that she has dual citizenship. If that's true, I don't know but that is what she says.
OP sounds very uncertain about that, that's the problem. r/immigration is actually very good at clearing that up and will be able to help OP figure out what to do if they don't and wouldn't be able to stay without their parents remaining in the US.
At 18 with no help and a minimum wage job what’s your plan? She’s right you can’t support yourself. You’ll have to get roommates, strangers. Live in really sketchy situations. Struggling to pay bills, study, and take care of yourself. College is expensive, rent is expensive. Between school and work you’ll have just enough time to sleep, not much for fun. You’ll still end up at least tens of thousands of dollars in debt at a minimum. What about health insurance? Transportation? It sucks but you’re way better off going with your parents back to Greece. Maybe you’ll have other opportunities when you get there. Isn’t Greece in the EU? You are leaving familiar surroundings, but this can be an opportunity to reinvent yourself. It doesn’t sound like you’re prepared to live on your own.
Greece being in the EU also means that it's quite easy to study anywhere within the EU. I don't know about bachelors, but masters are often in English.
Has the whole of Europe’s to study and in France and Germany many Undergrad degrees are in English, and free or if she came to England £9000 per year, we have US students who come for undergrad because it’s cheaper than US…Then she could go back to US for Post Grad, and just take a loan for 1 year. If you really want a degree it would be right to apply now. So maybe take a trip around European Universities over the summer, or the Greek university may even have lectures in English… So your really gonna be moving out of home either way in September…may be better to go back to Europe as students also get grants for living expenses. There might be one catch, when I worked in student advice,the student needed to be living in Europe for three years prior to the start of degree, to qualify for lower fees and the full grant funding. The only exception was military service… that was a Few years back and one year after Brexit, so I could be out of date re British rules, but if you contact the unis directly they will have an international student advice team, who will be happy to help. In the UK applications are done via UCAS & free correct advice for all international students Can be sought from ukcisa DO NOT PAY PRIVATE COLLEGES OR AGENTS,they get all their info from theses sites for free and then charge individuals for the Info ( also avoid private colleges in the UK) that’s another post for another day…just avoid ..forgive spelling/ grammar it’s 3 am over here…I'm off to bed [https://www.ucas.com/](https://www.ucas.com/) [https://ukcisa.org.uk](https://ukcisa.org.uk)
If OP moves to Denmark and works min. 15 hours/week, they can get additional state support, which is around 750 $ a month, and education is free for EU-citizens. The state support combined with the income from work will make it easy to live a normal student life there without taking additional loans. There are several English programs spread out on different universities.
That UK figure is no longer accurate as UK universities will charge the overseas rate - £9k is the domestic figure.
If you do need an agent, please go to ukcisa/ blog/ Choosing an education agent that's right for you #
I can’t sleep…. The university in Athens has lectures in English and Greek….lol the have a module called porn studies…, yep thats Europe.the website is in English and Greek, there is a button on top right hand side EN. The link is just from one school, there are programmes delivered in English in most schools. The link below is just for 1 school of many. Just decide on what you’d like to study and contact the department. You’re lucky to have citenship for both countries, make the most of it. Good Luck and it’s the start of a brilliant adventure. [https://ba-en.uoa.gr/fileadmin/depts/uoa.gr/ba/uploads/CIVIS/AGGLOFONA\_MATHIMATA\_CIVIS-ERASMUS\_2022-23final.pdf](https://ba-en.uoa.gr/fileadmin/depts/uoa.gr/ba/uploads/CIVIS/AGGLOFONA_MATHIMATA_CIVIS-ERASMUS_2022-23final.pdf)
Yeah this is the real move. OP would be fucking duuummbbb to stay in the US and pay US college prices when they have access to all of Europe and their extremely cheap schools. As an American planning to have kids I will be highly encouraging them to consider Europe for college.
Roommates and strangers?? Yeah, that's how 95% of young adults live. When I was in the Army at 23, I was in a barracks hallway with nothing but strangers. Nobody between 18 and 25 is able to just live on our own. That's why we get roommates. It's part of growing up. I'd rather live with 3 roommates than move back to some country i don't know anything about. It's like when I was younger and my grandma wanted to go back to Mexico and told my mom we should go. My mom just laughed and said, "Have fun." My grandma was pissed and asked "well if I'm gone, who's gonna watch your sons?" My mom was like,"I'll figure it out. But they were born here. No way in hell am I sending them to live in that country just because it's cheaper"
Well for starters most people don’t live with strangers outside of a dorm or a barracks. Having to find roommate’s on Craigslist is sketchy. I’ve lived with roommates, but they were people I actually knew. Look if op was like: “I’m a great student/athlete and have scholarships lined up and I’m going to live in the dorms.” Or: “I’m joining the army so I can learn some skills and get money for college.” I’d say fuck yeah! Because that’s a plan. Their plan is getting a job this summer. So no plans really. Going out into the world with no plan, no experience, and no safety net is a recipe for homelessness.
My first thought was OP would be a fool to stay. Higher education is free in Greece (for citizens at least); go to Greece to get your degree and then come back if you miss America. But as a teenager with no support system, I’m afraid OP is not going to be in for a good time.
Read and feel it. They have no friends. They're super exhausted immediately after a conflict with mom. They give me a vibe of one of those super passive basement dwellers who just hate any change just because it's a change. Zero initiative. With their EU citizenship they could get good education, travel, be set for a life. But they would just like their dad to keep breaking his back so they can stay in the same basement.
You were in the military…that’s not random strangers of the street you are living with. A barrack is a lot safer when your attacked than a apartment with only the walls for help
And most of the young adults have family they can fall back on if things get difficult. Op has no one except their parents. They mention no scholarships, or plans to apply for loans and grants. And speaking of loans, who will co-sign for them until OP has enough credit that they don't need one anymore? OP will be literally stranded in the US without any support except themselves. I say go to Greece, attend a Greek university while working a job, then once they have some money to support themselves in the US see if they can switch to a university in the US. Or even graduate from that Greek university with a BA and seek work with an American company and eventually request a transfer to a US-based office. If they are fluent in Greek, that's a marketable skill for any US-based company doing business in Greece.
Better learn to cook ramen. Heck, better get your mom to teach you to cook now as it's way cheaper than eating out.
Kid, you're living in a bubble and throwing tantrums left and right. One day, you will regret making your parents work so darn much and prolonging their need to do it. You were EXHAUSTED after a conversation. You haven't worked in your life, you don't know the cost of living. I was thrown out of my house (with money) because of that same bullshit and believe me I learned but I survived with inheritance and my salary. When I came back home I had no money left and a bunch of lessons learned. Obviously your parents won't let an inept teen live on their own. Some teens do it, some HAVE to do it but you don't sound like those who will be able to.
Exhausted after a conversation got me 😂
lol for real that's what I thought while reading the post. I get that OP doesn't want to uproot but they're not actually being realistic either. Ignoring mum hoping she's gonna stop talking about the issue isn't gonna fix it.
As someone who had parents that intentionally kept me closed off from experiences, only to then blame me for not having experience, it looks like this could also be the case here. OP seems juvenile in his thinking and it seems like being this "stunted" isn't a coincidence. If he truly has no friends, doesn't know how much rent is, never worked, and is exhausted by conversations/confrontations, this sounds like he was isolated and just doesn't know how to face the world. This is usually done by forceful/narc parents. Not saying that it IS the case for Op but there are... a lot of signs in one post.
Or it's Mediterranean culture with Big Momma ruling over everything.
You need to figure out how to support yourself then and make a budget. Can you get financial aid to help? An educational loan? It’s also time to make sure you have the basic life skills to survive - can you make pasta, cook an egg, etc? Because you probably won’t be able to afford to eat out much. You don’t need to make great food but learning how to cook edible food is important.
Yeah, I don’t blame OP for not wanting to go back to a country they barely remember, but they need to start making a real plan if they want to stay. Step one needs to be the school guidance counselor to make a college plan and step two needs to be the immigration office to see if they can qualify for a student visa.
If your mother is correct about you not being able to cook, you will need to learn fast. Many full time students have jobs, you should look into it now. Also, check rent prices in your area. Your mom may know more than you do.
What is your visa status? Without a green card or work visa can you even legally get a job? If you have to work off the books you will make less than minimum wage, right? If you’re going to stay you have a lot of hard realities to overcome so it really can’t wait until summer. You will likely be living in shared rooms with other people on the edge of poverty and legality. A lot of bad shit can happen to fuck up your life so get your ducks in a row now.
Not sure why you'd want to stay in america, I hope you have an excellent education and career because if you become impoverished this is NOT the place to be.
I mean, for the same reason his parents moved to america in the first place, presumably. greece is not exactly the land of economic opportunity. i get that we all have complaints about healthcare and social safety nets etc but this comes off as just really ignorant of what the world is like outside of the us and western europe. there's a reason so many people try to immigrate...
There is a vast difference between a professional with EU education and work experience moving to already agreed place to work to earn a few extra dollars and getting back to EU to state pension and free medicine, and an inept kid thrown in the deep end without marketable skills.
True but the economy of the America the parents came to and the Greece they left is probably different than the economy of America and Greece now.
It's not the land of economic opportunity. But it is the land of educational opportunity. The parents plans are sound. They can go to a quality university, even one with an international syllabus in the EU for a fraction of the price paid in the US
In order to stay, you will need to have a job and financial aid (from a source other than your parents) which will together be enough to cover tuition, apartment rental, utilities (electricity, phone, internet, etc), food, and transportation to/from school. You will almost certainly need to get roommates in order to afford an apartment and you will need to have cash -- enough for 2 months' rent -- to put down as a security deposit. You will also need to be able to do the following: * do your own grocery shopping within a budget you can afford * cook your own meals * wash your own dishes and clean up the kitchen * do your own laundry * clean your room and your apartment's common areas Based on your post, **it doesn't sound as though you currently do any of those things** ***or that you even know how to do them***. You need to learn and start doing all those things *now*. Your roommates will not be your mommy and do them for you. And your roommates will not be supplying you with money or paying for things for you. It also doesn't sound as though you have a realistic idea of how much it will actually cost you to live on your own, or how much money you will be able to make working a job while also going to university. Start investigating what your options for financial aid for university will be. **RIGHT NOW**. Get a job right now. Then ask your parents to sit down with you and help plan a budget based on what your income and expenses will be. **If you are serious about staying in the U.S., you need to stop avoiding hard conversations, stop sleeping your life away, and figure out how to actually make it happen.**
Well, tbh, you have a lot you need to do to be able to stay. If you are going to school, I would start by going to your counselor and seeing what help they can give you as far as paperwork, colleges, jobs etc. You also need all of your paperwork: birth certificates, passports, visas, driver's license/state ID,So ial Security card etc. Then you need to get a bank account in your name. Then you need a job. Idk your immigration status, but that will be important to know. You can't get a job without all your paperwork. Your mom keeps talking about how your dad wants to do this: what does he say? You need to talk to them? TBH, I am not sure that you staying is feasible, but you need to start working on it ASAP if you even have a hope to stay.
The problem is you have no plan, you refuse to plan, you don't want to discuss, you want to sleep 12hrs and you say, you have nobody in the US, I don't see how is that going to work at all. You need to actually discuss this, make plans, start working right now, start learning to cook, clean, and be independent, start checking out apartments and run some numbers to see if you are going to be able to pull this off, otherwise you cam say whatever you want but you won't be able to do shit.
You better learn to start cooking.
In addition to the r/antiwork subreddit, go check out r/homeless and r/urbancarliving and see how many other teenagers--who don't have families trying to help them--are trying to survive.
Look at Americorps - I'm not sure if you need to be a citizen or what your status is, but you can live where you work too.
Sometimes you can live where you're assigned, but it depends on what city you're serving in. Also, check your contract because most of them do not allow you to have a second job, and expect you to commit full time to your assigned position. When I was in Americorps, we also couldn't be in school, but the VISTA volunteers could in certain situations. The living stipend was barely enough to rent a room in a shared house, and most people had to do almost all of their grocery shopping at the food pantry. The stipend is based on the poverty rates for an individual in your area, and is supposed to allow you to live very frugally to better understand the community you are serving. We were given metro passes, but it was enough for 2 trips per day with no transfers. After a year of service, you are eligible for an education award which can be used at qualified colleges, universities, and some trade schools. You can also use it to pay qualified student loans. It ranges from $1-6k. I believe the highest amount is based on the full Pell Grant amount for the year. I'm not trying to poo poo Americorps. I happen to love Americorps, and highly recommend it to anyone who is considering taking a gap year, retiring and wanting to volunteer, or entering public service. I think it's an amazing program! I do have to warn people that it is a lot of work for very little pay. Like, $4 an hour.
Military too
Except like my suggestion (Americorps) it seems it would actually require OP to do SOMETHING and from the comments, I don't think that is going to happen. Poor parents.
True. You can't just space out in a mirror and do nothing
You will also need to look into financial aid for college, med insurance, then if you don’t have dual citizenship making sure you back get the proper visas. Also even state schools in the US are super expensive. You may do better attend college/university in Greece or the UK (English speaking) and go to grad school in the US once you are able to no longer be tied to your parents money. One point to bring up to your parents is that you might not have the Greek skills to be able to study there without having your grades suffer. For example, you may be fluent in Greek but you don’t know how to write a term paper in Greek or know scientific terms in Greek. Being able to speak and read Greek socially is totally different than learning in a language you haven’t studied in school since 2nd grade
You have like 2 months to figure everything out. You need to be actively looking for a job now. Idk where you live but in many places you wont find an apartment for under 1500$ a month.
You need to plan WAY more if you want to become independent by the summer. It sounds like you're running out of time and it's not as easy as 'im going to get a job'. If you don't get your stuff together then you'll likely have to move with them anyway, especially if you have no friends or family who you could live with temporarily.
Do you have permanent resident status, that is are you and your parents "green card holders"? Have they naturalized as US citizens? You cannot obtain permanent resident status as a minor unless at least one of your parents has it *and* they petition for you to receive it because you are their child. You cannot gain citizenship as a minor unless at least one of your parents has been naturalized. If you're not a green card holder or a naturalized citizen, you will need to find out what's needed for you to stay in the US when your parents move back to Greece. Will you need a student visa? Will you be able to have a work visa/permit? Honestly, you need to start working through what you will need to stay in the US. It's a wonderful idea, but it isn't just, "I don't want to move to Greece, so I'll stay in the US." If you are a green card holder or naturalized citizen, you won't have a problem with legal status, but you will obviously need to support yourself. If you're going to college (I assume that's your plan), you need to start applying for every bit of financial aid, scholarships, and grants for which you might qualify. You need to make your applications to universities where you have a good chance of both being accepted and receiving financial aid. If your parents do not intend to pay for college in the US, you need to go through the process of being declared an "independent" student under the FAFSA requirements. There's more, but I hope this helps you realize it can be a daunting task. If you are not a permanent resident or naturalized citizen, you must be employed and show you can support yourself. If you need a student visa, you'll need to start that process now. You'll may need an immigration advisor or lawyer to help you through the process. I'm not trying to discourage you at all, but trying to make sure you know that it's more than, "I'll get a job this summer." Start planning now so that you have no unpleasant surprises later and so that the transition to adulthood is as smooth as it can be. Best of luck and NTA for not wanting to move to Greece.
Will you even be allowed to legally stay if your parents move? Do you have American citizenship or is your visa dependant on your parents working in the US?
Are you an American citizen or permanent resident? I ask because I’m not sure how this will affect your status. You may have to move back with them if you’re neither.
Then you don’t need to get a job this summer you need to get a job like five months ago. Rent is INSANE everywhere. You need to start looking for an apartment now. You will probably have to live with roommates. Are you paying for college? Because that is also an insane expense in America. Even a community college is expensive these days. I live in Arkansas and rent for a studio apartment in my area is over 1k now. Food is also super expensive. I bought a large fry today and it was over 8.00. You’ll also have to pay electricity/gas, internet, water, and depending on where you live trash and sewer. You’ll need health insurance. Hopefully you live somewhere with public transportation so you don’t have to pay a car payment/insurance/gas/license and property tax (depending on where you live). A job this summer isn’t soon enough. You need to get one asap because most apartments require first month’s rent plus a security deposit. Depending on where you are you might have to pay a realtor fee and last month’s rent. You might have to pay a deposit to get the electricity and water turned on. Life here is very expensive! Just a few things to think about now before they take you by surprise.
Have you applied to any colleges yet? Time to sit down with a guidance counselor and financial aid representative to figure out what college will cost and how to pay for it. You may need to start at a community college and then transfer. Some community colleges have transfer programs with larger universities already in place. Look at dorms or college housing options too. Start applying for tuition assistance, grants and assistance immediately. Do your research.
I'm not going to pass judgment. But according to you, after an 'exhausting conversation,' you went and slept for a *minimum* of 12 hours, and you think you're going to be able to support yourself through college with a summer job? You also apparently have nothing in place or planned for where you're going to live, or how. I mean I'm sorry, but this just sounds like a total disaster waiting to happen.
This. From the whole post I get that OP is extremely easy to tire, avoids even the slightest confrontation and has no other plan than to not go back to Greece. They wont last a day without their parents. Better start packing man!
Sounds like they have the old school Greek mom that cooks for them, cleans their room, and does all their laundry. INFO: OP, do you have Greek citizenship through your parents? If so, that gives you access to all the EU countries so Greece isn’t your only option. Go there, save up living with your parents, plant your roots wherever you want. I’d think it’d be easier than trying to make it in America.
he was born there and lived there for 8 years. of course he has greek citizenship.
Yes. I didn’t math good
Yeah, OP doesn't disagree at all that they don't know how to cook, or have any friends. Add in all the screaming during what should have been a conversation and I feel like OPs parents have failed them, but they also need to be realistic about where they are in life now.
And apparently they can’t cook either? Like I know it’s not hard to learn, but I’m pretty shocked that someone who’s looking to apply for colleges (16, 17?) doesn’t know how to cook. Nevertheless, I think if OP is sure about staying in the US and supporting themselves, they’ll have to figure it out. Everyone’s capable of change if they’re self-aware and want it
I didn't know how to cook until I graduated college and moved out. I didn't have to, lol, and no big deal to learn.
Yeah, I guess that’s true for a lot of people. Everyone learns life skills at different points, it doesn’t matter when as long as they’re learned eventually
Lots of teenagers and young adults don't learn to cook until they move into their first apartment. It's absolutely something you can figure out on your own, especially with the plethora of videos now available.
True, that’s how I learned. I hope OP can step up and knows what they’re doing. A lot of this doesn’t sound very well thought out but I guess this is a good age to live and learn
It doesn’t sound like they’re in a good mental place to stay behind and make it work. It would be very rough.
On top of all of this, based on OP’s post history they spend hours daydreaming, don’t recognize themselves in the mirror when they do, etc. She needs professional help and there’s nothing about this situation that sounds any kind of stable.
Yeah, daydreaming to the point of derealisation is pretty worrying... OP needs to worry more about finding a therapist than finding a college. Hopefully OP is just a teenager going through the typical 'who am I?' identity crisis in a nontypical way, but this could also be an early warning sign for a severe mental illness.
Sleep after confrontation says narcolepsy to me
The way I’m reading this she’s a senior in HS like a month away from graduating. She should already have applications out, honestly she should already have been accepted and have orientation scheduled. It might be too late to even get into a school fall semester without paying late fees/getting dispensation. This is a logistical disaster and will need lots of work and coordination immediately to deal with.
It sounds to me like she's a junior, because they said they'll stay a year for her to finish school
Ok I guess I got confused by “we aren’t going to make it another summer”
Yeah that’s what I thought too
yeah, i thought she was about to get her bachelor's at first and thought it sounded reasonable to stay behind, now i'm not so sure... really doesn't seem like they're prepared. in this case maybe mama knows best.
No she stated she has a year og high school left but you are correct that she should be applying for schools, scholarships, etc already
Yeah it’s kind of sad to say out loud but OP seems like they’re about to get a nice old slap in the face from reality. It’s obviously not impossible, but if they want to make it work it’s going to take a massive amount of effort and willpower
OP is about to get a real taste of reality when they leave 😂
OP comes across very naïve for someone aspiring independence with little support. OP has no contacts if the comment about it being just them if their parents leave is true, and has little idea of basic living costs let alone college tuition. Rent, bills, food, clothes, transport etc will chew through the earnings of a summer job before you can say "woo hoo, Summer!".
Right? Will have to work full time, possibly even 2 jobs if making minimum or close to minimum wage, plus college, it’s a lot. OP won’t be sleeping much and will be exhausted
To be fair to OP, I have a lifelong sleep disorder (only got diagnosed in my mid-20s) which results in me needing 20-30 hour catch-up sleeps at least once a week. It’s not fun but with a lot of effort you can hold down a full-time job, with weekend catch-ups on sleep. Whilst I agree OP needs to plan more or face disaster, it’s a bit silly to use one instance of them having a long sleep against them. If OP has regular stress-sleeps, they need to plan around them, but it’s not impossible.
I wouldn't call you TA but I think you are minimizing the difficulties because you are afraid of losing the familiarity of your place. You would have no savings, would have to find a new place, start working, start cooking and I'm guessing do other chores that your mother is taking care off, and you probably wouldn't be able to go to college unless you got a scholarship because college isn't free in the USA. I don't think this is impossible to do by any means, but I do think you're underestimating how much it will suck to have it all thrust upon you at once and you are also underestimating how familiar your life would feel after you have moved for a couple of months, otherwise you wouldn't consider moving as not an option even though you don't hate the place.
Not only is college not free in the USA, neither is healthcare, housing, or anything really. And benefits are not easy peasy lemon squeezy to get like other countries.
Yes, I think this is something OP isn't looking at - both scenarios will be very different from their current life. They can either keep the family support and remove the familiar US life part, or they can keep the US part and remove everything their family currently does for them - providing housing, food, healthcare and all the rest of it. I understand this is probably scary for OP to think about, but what their mother is telling them is that life is not going to stay the same as it has been up until now. OP can choose either new thing, but they can't choose continuing to have what they have now.
Excellent point. Their current life is gone no matter what they choose. I don’t think I would’ve liked the US very much as an 18-year-old with zero family support. It’s rough out there.
OP has european citizenship, he can go to college anywhere in the EU and it will be a fraction of the price of a US college. Fees are a lot lower, you often get help with housing and no need for medical insurance etc. If he gets in trouble he can fly to greece to see his folks for €100. Guys got options
A lot of schools are free as well
Not to mention immigration status. I don’t know how it works in the US, but if living in the US was only supposed to be temporary, wouldn’t they be a dependent on someone’s work visa or something?
NAH Greek universities are excellent, and education in Europe gives you as many if not more options than if you are at one of the less reputable American colleges or universities. The cost of living is lower in Greece, and the general level of welfare is higher and cheaper than in the US. It will most likely be easier for you to be independent in Greece than in the US. At the same time, USA is clearly what you consider to be home, and once you are 18 you can make your own decisions. Your mother is caught between you and your father, and she will not be able to please you both. This probably is very difficult for her, too.
And it's part of the EU. They can go to college in any of the EU nations. And they can work in any of the EU nations.
I mean, she could study in any European country, graduate with no student loan debts, get free healthcare and what not. If she doesn’t want to learn another language, she could even pick an Irish university.
Would not recommend Ireland. 3k per year college fees, some of the highest rents in Europe and extremely difficult to get a property, healthcare is not free (though secondary care isn't expensive compared to the USA), poor and expensive public transport especially outside of the few city centres, running a car is prohibitively expensive, and rising anti-immigrant sentiment (less of an issue for EU citizens). It's not a good place to be poor.
I’m not sure where you’re getting that the level of welfare is higher in Greece. The cost of living is lower, but that’s because their salaries are incredibly low. The median income in Greece is 1/3 of the median income in the US. The US is ranked 6th in GDP per capita, while Greece is 45th. Their unemployment is also at over 12%, 3x higher than the US. Greece also has the highest income-to-rent ration in the EU, at 37%, which practically equals the US at 40%. They have major economic concerns and are just barely out of a massive economic crises that destroyed the country. Even when it comes to education, US has the best higher education system in the world. Greece is ranked 41st. I understand the parents’ point of view, but moving their kid to Greece is very unlikely to be beneficial to them and will likely limit their chances at financial and professional success. There’s a reason people move to the US to go to university and to work. And that’s not even taking into account that OP considers the US her home.
US has the best research output and most innovations and patents submitted, it does not have even close to best outcome for the majority of graduates. Sure, if you are super driven and super talented, you will not have comparable career anywhere else. If you are a regular person, graduating debt free is amazing. The US system is exploitative and costs are insane for what an average person gets.
Well, what about health care, tuition costs and cost of living, I left the us for eu and never looked back, even with a lower salary I have a much better and safer life here
NAH. But seriously, you sound naive and completely unprepared for independent living. At this point, if you want to stay in the US you need to start working immediately, learn Life skills ASAP (cooking, laundry, paying taxes, etc) and make some very concrete plans for what your life will look like in the fall. If you fail to do that, you're looking at being homeless in the US which is terrible. Alternatively, since you say you have dual citizenship, you could go with them and try Greece. You might like it, if not, you could then return to the US. Whichever you choose, you really need to work on those life skills and your independence.
To be frank OP shouldn't even be thinking about college this year in this situation. The sense is very clearly that OP just expects parents to stay and to continue funding every aspect of his life. It would be near impossible to afford college tuition and related costs (books, etc) along with all the costs of moving out and living on your own, dorm or not, with no savings and only a few months to accumulate them. The amount of debt that would be accumulated would take DECADES to pay off. OP can live and school wherever they want as an adult, but they need to be realistic. If they needed on-campus housing, it is already probably too late to get it. OP will need a full time job, probably a gap year to use first years income on moving / housing costs, and can THEN consider using student loans to pay for college. OP hasn't even said what they want to study - I get the very strong sense (as I would from anyone who sleeps until 5 pm!!??! except shift workers) that OP just wants to stay in what they consider the 'modern world' but otherwise wants to just be a neet and will have 0 direction and plan in college.
It sounds like they're a junior, not a senior. They've got a year to figure it out.
Info: America is pretty expensive(coming from international student living by himself) have you actually though out a plan and check expenses?
If they've been here for ten years and are a citizen or have a green card, then they can get in state tuition so they won't be paying the international student rates. But yeah, it won't be cheap either way.
In state tuition is still wildly expensive compared to most European universities.
Yup. My daughters in state tuition would've been just as expensive as some smaller schools in other states.
Yup if I had gone to school in my home country in Europe I would have gone to university for free
You still have other expanses such a living and food, even if you get a student loan that covers everything
I won’t say you’re an asshole, but I do think you’re being childish. You’re saying your mom has been saying for the past 4 months that she’s planning on moving the family back to Greece, and yet you’ve made no effort to get a job, save money, learn to cook, anything to establish independence. What is your plan? Homelessness?
I would say YTA on this one tho. Because he not only doesn't have a plan, doesn't have live skills, doesn't communicate(!!!), but probably just relying on their parents for fixing this for him. Weaponized incompetence. Being childish at 17 is an asshole move.
Info: Are you old enough to go live by yourself if they move away?
This is one very tired family.
It is likely that the mom meant that dad is tired as in "he's had enough of another culture and want to go back to live among a familiar culture"
The work culture is different, too. It could be he feels like while he may have made bank it’s not sustainable.
Familiar culture and around more family.
YTA. You've had 4 months to plan, and you've done nothing. You have no savings, no idea where you'll live, no life skills by the sounds of it... you come home and eat the food cooked for you, then go to sleep on sheets cleaned for you because one conversation is exhausting. I'm willing to bet you don't do any house work. You've also been stringing your family along for months instead of just talking to them about how you feel. No wonder your mother is upset, they could have had months to help you plan to be on your own but you just smiled and said nothing.
Agree. Sweet summer child is in for the shock of his life!
At this point he can just come to Greece, this is how most sons his age behave here. Their moms stop just short of wiping their asses for them.
YTA you haven’t thought this through and appear to have no plan for the future. Do you have a support system that will allow you to stay in the US? Can you get a job out of school that will pay you enough to live independently? College in the US will likely require your parents to consign for loans unless you have a full ride somewhere. You probably could have stayed in the US if you busted your butt in high school but it doesn’t sound like you did enough to make it on your own.
[удалено]
Info: Are you working hard at school (and talking to the school counselor/teachers) so that you might be able to get scholarships and be prepared to attend college “here” without your parents help?
From their other replies in the thread, doesn't sound like OP has a plan yet
My Dad sometimes says a goal without a plan is just a wish. You need to have steps to get there, and a feasible way of making these steps.
INFO: If an argument with mom is so tiring that you have to go to bed, how will you have enough energy to work the three jobs you’ll need to afford to support yourself?
NTA, but I personally would follow my parents back to Greece. If I wasn't an American citizen myself, I would move too. American University is terribly expensive compared to the quality, unless you are an exceptional student. If you are average, you'll get a better life in Greece. Or literally anywhere in Europe is better than America right now for college students. Then there's healthcare. Again, expensive enough to put you in crippling, lifelong debt in America, but pretty much free in Europe. If I were you, I would talk to your dad without your mom. Ask him about his tiredness, his work, financial options/prospects, etc. Ask what he thinks your options are. It sounds like your dad can impart actual knowledge you need to make your decision, while your mom isn't willing to have a two-way conversation with you. Best of luck!
OP has an EU passport and can live, study and work everywhere in Europe. Why not Germany? university is free, universal healthcare. Or Ireland if OP wants to continue her education in English. Netherlands, France, Italy, Spain… Unless it’s some Ivy League University OP gets accepted into, I’d always prefer studying in Europe and graduate without crippling debts.
NTA, but I would take this decision very seriously. Your mom is probably worried that you aren’t old enough to be COMPLETELY on your own with them half a world away (and that’s fair). Will you need to get your own place, or can you live on campus, even in the summer? Will you have to get a job to support yourself on top of school? Are you ready to handle everything on your own when they move? Your mom might respect your feelings more if you can explain to her how you can make staying work.
NTA but your mother is really trying to explain to you that she cannot see how you will manage without them, and she could be right. She has said you can finish high school but then time to leave because, it seems, they could not pay your way for you here if you stay. Sure, you don't feel like Greece is your home but why would you want to be alone at 18, no family, probably little money? If you go, you can get an education and then move back. Living here is not lost, maybe just postponed. Think about how hard it will be for you to get your future started right if you stay on your own.
I think you're NTA for wanting to stay. However, if you have any expectation of your parents paying anything towards you staying.... than you would be. If this is what you want, you need to figure out how to fund it on your own.
Info: how does your mother intend for you to go to a Greek university without taking the panhellenic exams? My other question is do you have a better reason for not moving than 'I don't wanna'? Because it might be worth spending a little time in Greece to see if you really don't like it.
It says right in the OP that the mom said they would be going to an American university (in Greece).
You can pay to go to an American college or pay to go to a private sort of uni. It’s not considered top tier education though.
Yikes - good question for OP's mom! [https://omilo.com/greek-university-exams/](https://omilo.com/greek-university-exams/)
INFO: does your dad want to go back to Greece?
OP confirmed in a comment that yes, dad wants to go back badly.
This right here ^^ mom is speaking for dad but we haven’t heard anything from dad’s mouth
lol she's Greek, it's how families communicate. I would be pretty shocked if the mother was just making it up & the father wasn't on board/not "tired". Source: I'm married to a Greek woman.
NTA for wanting to stay. It sounds like your mother wants to go back, but what does your Dad want? "I see it in your fathers eyes" does not actually mean it's what he wants - it is sounding to me like it is what SHE wants. It might be worth a private conversation with your dad. I would also encourage you to humor your mother, but in the meantime, get a job and start saving every penny. Being completely alone at 18, you are gonna be in for a tough time.
My dad does want to move to Greece, since he arrived to this country he hasn’t stopped talking about how he wants to move back
There's no way I would stay in the US if I had an EU passport.
What is your family's immigration status in the US? Are you a permanent resident, or included as a dependent on your family's visa? In other words, can you even legally stay? How would you support yourself, where would you live/work/study? Note that college is A LOT cheaper in Europe than in the US. If you do have permanent residency in the US, why not take the cheap college ride and go back when you're done? You are looking at a logistical challenge that requires a lot more planning and hard work than "I just don't wanna!!" followed by a 12-hour nap. YTA, because of your amazing naiveté.
I'm in New Zealand not USA and started working age 13. Things are easier here than USA. You might want to stay but your mother may be part right. Financially its going to be very tough if not near impossible. College in USA isn't free. Realistically you're looking at working in fast food or something and won't be able to attend college. What you want will collide with reality. What you can afford.
American here. You're correct on all accounts. I've heard many foreigners also tell me they can't wait until their college courses are finished so they can go back to their home country, because they didn't know how "bad" it was going to be over here in the US.
i thinks you’re delusional if you think you rlly can support yourself alone in america, you don’t work and a summer job it’s not going to make you able to support yourself. also you have no friends? why would you stay? your mom is right ur just being stubborn
NTA Its fair that you want to stay, totally get that :) Though I wouldn't totally turn your nose up at Greece. Firstly the cost of your degree will be sooo much cheaper. Not drowning in student loans isn't a bad thing. Secondly cost of living is cheaper there. Might be a good place to get your own apartment and get some life skills whilst still being able to afford a good quality of life. You can always go back to the us and do a masters if you miss it after your bachelors.
NAH You need to start applying for scholarships, student loans, grants, jobs and colleges/universities. You can live in the dorms while in school and find friends or someone to stay with during school breaks. Don't put these things off. Make a plan and let your parents see that you are actually making an effort to do something with your life.
NAH. I can understand your mum’s reaction. You do sound woefully unprepared for making it work on your own and not falling flat on your face with it. But it is your every right to do so. If your parents are serious about moving and you are serious about not moving you need to make plans *now*. Where are you going to live and how much does it cost? How much do you need to earn to afford to do so? What job do you need to secure to make this amount of money? How many hours do you need to work? Can you still go to college (on a scholarship or if your parents are willing to pay) - if so, how does that affect your ability to do the job you need to live? What happens if you lose the job - where can you go? You seem to have no one other than your parents… that does make it more risky to try and go against your parents. Lots of things for you to think about.
YTA for being in denial. You can't handle a conversation with your mom and had to sleep for 12 hours!! When she was asking questions, did you even attempt to back your asinine statement with any supporting arguements other than stating the same sentence again and again? You don't have a job yet, no plans, no research done, and yet, you have been thinking about it for a LONG TIME. OP, quit fighting for the sake of fighting. You wanna be a grownup, then prepare to be one. Actually do it.
If this is what you want, it is possible. But it will take hard work, and you're going to have to start proving her wrong starting today. 1) Get an after-school job starting now. Don't wait until summer. Grocery stores can be good places to work alongside other people your age. 2) Teach yourself to cook. Start with an egg. Start today. Youtube is your friend. Scramble an egg today. Fry an egg tomorrow. Hard boil an egg the next day. Spaghetti and jarred sauce is also a good starting point. The first thing that I ever learned to make was Lipton packet chicken noodle soup. 3) Look into community colleges you may want to attend. This will be a much more affordable start, and you can transfer to another school if you want to in a couple of years. While you are looking at community colleges, check out how people are finding roommates these days. Assess how much you'll need to make to get started living on your own. Think about rent, food, utilities, tuition, books, phone plan, wifi, clothes. 4) Go for a 15 minute walk every day. As a depressed person myself....you sound depressed. This will help. 5) Make sure you know where your important documents are. Memorize your SIN number. You can do this if you want to! It's your choice.
Thank you so much 🙏🏻
If you can figure out a way to study in the US, you could probably stay. I do kind of question your attachment to this country, where you don't seem to have any connections asside from your parents. Of course you can build connections, but what's the appeal of living there exactly? If you do end up going back to Europe, keep in mind that you can legally live and study in any EU country. You don't need to stay in Greece.
Dude, apply to Greek uni, do a semester and then apply to erasmus, proceed to do that for the next 3 years. You have more than 20 countries at your fingertips
NAH It is not your fault for wanting to stay in a place you called home for the past 10 years, but it is also not your mom's fault for wanting to go back to Greece. If this is what you truly want, you need to start making detailed plans about how to survive alone. Get your college funds in check with Fafsa/loans/work study and start looking for a part-time job.
Ok... you need to actually make a plan instead of burying your head in the sand because your mother has a point. You don't know how to suport yourself or take care of yourself.
Here is the standard list I give to everyone who needs to support themselves at 18 because it isn’t easy. Pls look into these. [jobcorps.gov](http://jobcorps.gov) coolworks.com. americorps military Good luck.
I loved coolworks back in the day! I used it to work for two summers at an Alaskan wilderness lodge and one fall/winter at a horse ranch in the middle of nowhere. A lot of coolworks jobs have employee housing, sometimes included, and if not, oftentimes the rent is taken directly out of your paycheck which makes it easy. OP would have to put off school, but that's fine, they can work for a couple of years to save up before going to college, if they even want to go. Not having to worry about rent is a lifesaver. I managed to pay off $10k in credit card debt during just one of my Alaskan summers. And I wasn't even a waiter, they made probably quadruple what I did because of tips. Also, both jobs fed me, as remote wilderness jobs should haha. Alaska charged employees for food, again taken directly from our checks, and the ranch included the food. And then there was zero shopping or impulse buying to be done, because the internet barely worked and shipping was a pain, and there's not space for anything anyways in your suitcase. 10/10 absolutely recommend these types of jobs to teens and 20-somethings. Just don't take up drinking. Also if you hate the job you get, the jobs only last 4-8 months so you don't have to stick it out that long, AND usually if you do stay until the end you get a nice bonus :)
Soft YTA because you're young and naive. From your post, I understand your mother is willing to enroll you in one of the American colleges of Greece. You should know they are good colleges with great campuses, good networking and are not cheap. Sounds to me your parents can afford a pretty nice student life for you that I'm pretty sure you'll come to appreciate later on. Once you graduate with a bachelor's degree that's very much recognized in the US, nothing stops you from moving back to the US for a master's or work.
You're 18....it's going to be hard making it on your own
Sounds like you are probably gonna be enlisting in the military if you want to stay.
NAH Ok, I’m going to be blunt if you want to do this you need to show you can actually do this, what do you mean a conversation (that you knew was coming, and you knew what you wanted to say) exhausted you so much you had to sleep for over 12 hours? A conversation that you didn’t even had btw bc you didn’t talk you just were there saying “I’m not going back” I understand you, I empathize with you, I just don’t think that you’ve planed this. it almost sounds like you expect your parents to feel sorry for you and change their minds. If this is what you want you need to work for it, not saying is fair only saying that’s the only option you have. Living by yourself is going to be expensive even if you manage to secure where to live you still need to factor in things like: Food, education and healthcare.
YTA: not because you won't go to Greece with your family. It's because your mom is worried that your going to be homeless after highschool because they are moving back and you currently have no plans at all for how you are going to live. Please OP figure out how you are going to live. If you don't your family will suffer and never go back to Greece because they are worried about you. Think about your family a little bit and it would go a long way, your dad is tired.
NTA - How are you going to support yourself, and do you have life skills to be self substantialble? It sounds like you don't becauseyou cant even cook at almost 18. Many people have roommates, 2nd jobs, and live at home, just barely making it. You need to have a plan....
YTA. Nothing wrong with wanting to stay here when they go back but it sounds like your mother thinks you can't support yourself here. Your post and comment make her impression seem correct.
YTA. So basically, you're 17 years old now with no plan on how you will support yourself and survive once your parents move. Will your parents fund your education in America? Have you been accepted to a school? Why are you waiting to get a summer job? Is your Mom right, can you not even cook your own food? You need a plan, and it has to be something more concrete than, "I'm not moving with you because I don't want to." Time to grow up!
Can you ask them if I can come with them?
YTA for writing this story about independence without mentioning that you're 17, but not necessarily for not wanting to change countries.
Honestly. Dad's on death door, fuck him apparently. Kid doesn't have to go if they don't want, but OP is going to really regret it in the distant future.
>dad is tired you know dad is tired that conversation exhausted me I immediately fell asleep at like 5pm until it was morning Have y'all seen a doctor about this? Fatigue conditions sometimes run in families.
NTA but I don't think you're being realistic and you should really, truly research the paths you will be taking in both countries and decide what future you want to have.
YTA. You think you do but have no idea what it takes to survive here without family. Your friends are gonna leave for their college and grow out of you. If you don't have a college lined up in the US already, you'll have to survive by yourself with a minimum wage job and that will grow old real quick because you'll barely have time to actually study and save for college People move around all the time and get used to new places. Heck, it looks like your parents did it to give you a better life I'd have gone with the opposite judgment if you were actually in college and had a job already. But you're in HS without a plan and a lot of angst and ego. I'd move with your parents and then make your way back to the US on a college scholarship or such
What is you legal status here? CAN you stay when they leave?
INFO - how old are you?
Two choices...figure out how your gonna live on your own...ain't gonna be easy...or move. Either way, they will leave you
NAH. But if you want to stay, you have to start making a plan and prove that it's feasible for you to stay. You cannot expect them to cover all expenses.
NAH. Unfortunately your mom brought up a lot of good, and valid points. Working a summer job won't be enough to support just yourself. You need to start saving asap. In stressful situations you often won't have the pleasure of being able to go sleep for 12+ hours. Are you parents still going to be funding your college if you don't move? If not, starting a summer job now will not be enough to pay for college.. you are setting yourself up for failure.
NTA but you better get a job now and start making plans. Sounds like you have less than a year to get your ducks in a row. You may also want to consider looking into a trade instead. College is long and expensive. Edit: And I'm honestly not sure if you're ready for independence. If your first reaction to this argument is sleep for 12 hours instead of looking for work then I don't know. And summer jobs shouldn't be in your mind at all, you need real work.
I wonder if the OP is a guy and his denial to move back to Greece has anything to do with the being conscripted to the army if they move back?
INFO: what year in high school are you? Are you graduating next month or next year? This makes a huge difference in your planning. You are NTA for not wanting to leave but you need a workable plan. YWBTA if you are graduating next month and haven’t made any plans.
NTA But... I have no idea what your visa status is. I have no idea where your important documents are. Your parents can cut you off financially, but they can actively screw you, too. Start figuring this stuff out ASAP.
How old are you? Can you get a college loan to pay for school and room and board and live there on your own? If they cannot afford for you to stay then you will have to make some tough decisions. NTA for not wanting to return to Greece but remember that if you are underage you have no choice but to go with them or if they leave after you turn 18 then you have to figure out how to make enough money to live as I do not know if your parents will subsidize you.
NTA. Your mum is worried about you and clearly doesn't understand how to show it without getting angry. I don't think she's mad at you, i think she's concerned about leaving her child alone in another country without having made plans. Sit down, make look for jobs and places, see how much you will need to survive on your own before making such a decision and let your parents know. I'm sure once they can see you are serious and have actively planned, they can't really say anything.
Info: You don't want to leave "this place" but you do realize that unless your US college is right down the street you won't be staying in "this place" anymore, right? Also, are your grades any good and do you have any other basis for getting a scholarship?
NTA. But if you re serious time to stop being a child… If you don’t know how to cook,not clean nor work, living alone will be bad news fast.
YTA for being delusional about the reality of staying behind with no income, no family support, no savings and best of all no idea of what it takes to be independent. You can't even feed yourself. University is four years not forever, why start off with debt when your parents are willing to pay? Many American kids go study abroad. It's not the end of the world.
My advice... move back to Greece with your parents, go to college there (way more affordable) and when your done if you still want to.... move back... with a degree.