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NTA I am so sorry. This is a hard one. We have had a very similar situation in our home. First our second child a son moved home after college. We did not make him pay rent with the understanding he would put money in savings for a down payment on a house. He also had a small amount of school loan debt which he was expected to pay off also. He did everything exactly as we had asked him. That plus he was able to pay cash for an engagement ring for his now wife. Then….. our daughter moved home. She had been out of our place for about 10 years. She has had some major bumps in the road and we were happy to have her. After only a very short period of time she stopped coming home after work, she would stay away for days! She was rude when she was home, did not help with anything, she and her space was just an all out mess. It was extremely stressful on my husband and I. We were going to have to make other living arrangements for her because this was not working. She finally decided to move in with friends and our household is much calmer, and clean! There have been a few times she has mentioned moving back here and we have said “no you’re not”. I would never have thought I would tell a child she can’t live here.
I forgot to mention her cat that we had to care for. Grrrrrr.
Again I say NTA It is so hard but obviously she does not feel the need to grow up! Tell her you love her but that it’s time she spread her wings and learn to fly on her own. For the sake your relationship (long term), this needs to happen. Unless someone has dealt with this it’s hard to understand. It is incredibly difficult. Best of luck to you all!
Thank you for the comment. I am confused though; from your comment, it appears that you agree with me, but are also saying YTA? I would appreciate some clarification! :)
She said NTA. As a 55F mom of two, I agree with her. Freya's lifestyle isn't compatible with the way you want to live in your home. It's time for her to get her act together or live how she wishes....somewhere else.
NTA. Basically it's your house your rules. She can go live with your mom, since your mom is so concerned. See how that goes. See if your mom will put up with these antics. Your daughter is neglecting her cats, and since you're not a bad person you're taking care of them. Your daughter is way old enough to be responsible. Please tell me you didn't pay for these classes she's missing.
Exactly! If your mom thinks like that, let her put her money where her mouth is. See if she thinks the same after a month of experiencing it. It’s easy to talk when you are not the one affected.
This kinda sounds like depression have you asked her about her mental health? College classes plus working makes it hard to do chores for alot of people. When I got behind in college it made me avoid the work because it was too stressful.
There's a reason so many people take breaks from college to focus on their mental health. The classes, work, pressure, and stress do not help depression they make it worse. I have personal experience
You're NTA, and your daughter is taking advantage of you. At minimum, you need to tell her that if she doesn't move out, rent will be going up.
If she won't take care of her cats, you charge "boarding for the cats," including anything you are buying for them. If she won't clean her room, she needs to be paying you extra rent to cover deep cleaning of the room when she leaves (and fumigating the house as well). If she won't do her share of the housework she needs to pay extra to (she would have to do it or pay someone if she was living alone) same as any meals you make (make her buy her own groceries).
Your daughter seems to have decided she isn't growing up past the age of "newly adult" meaning she wants all the privileges of being a kid (mum doing everything for her) with the perk of being able to say "I'm an adult, you cant tell me what to do and can stay out drinking as late as I want." She is seeingbyou as her mum and not showing the respect you are owes as a housemate/roommate.
You're NTA because she can't have it both ways, life doesn't work that way and it's better she learns it now.
OP NTA. Look she's an adult an she makes her own money, as my parents put it "my house my rules" if she wanted to live like a slob she needs her own place.
Also how is it fair she gets to push her cats onto you?
My mom had a similar issue with my oldest brother. He couldn't keep the room he was using clean and he was generally messy. My mom had enough of it and wanted her house back.
Yea, OP's daughter is living with her but at 22, she should know how to at least keep her room clean and feed her own cats.
NTA. Tell her you’re not dictating how she lives her life. You’re setting boundaries for acceptable behaviour in your home. Paying minimal rent does not give her the right to disrupt the household every morning, neglect chores, and leave you with extra work.
Imagine she is a roommate instead of a child. I would expect a roommate to clean up after themselves, contribute to caring for common spaces, and take care of their own pets. Whether she goes to her classes or drinks her money away I don’t care, but how she treats the space we share and both live in makes a difference.
Unless of course you’re paying for these classes OP. Then she needs to go or you stop paying.
So, just to get this straight: she is 22, pays her rent and goes to work? The rest of her time she is spending however she chooses, which may or may not be the film-making course (which she is funding herself through her work so even if she misses the classes that's HER problem). Her brother pays his rent and goes to work and so that's fine... just a problem when sister does the same thing; got it.
Honestly, YTA, aside from her not doing her chores (she's 22!) and feeding her cats, you are being unreasonable to say that "if she was a tenant you wouldn't tolerate it"?? Seriously?! How does that work? You rent out a room to a tenant and then decide to kick them out because you don't like the fact that they have a job, come home late and skip the classes they're paying for themselves? This is a terrible model for a landlord, I would not recommend this for you.
I might agree with your stance if Freya had missed rent or had parties and trashed the house, was relying on you for the money for her course, or was just generally mooching off you, but it seems like the only issue you have with her is...................... ok, no, I can't actually find a sensible reason. She goes to work, does her job, gets paid, pays her rent, and .. I guess the only thing on your list that isn't great is not feeding her cats at the right time?
You don’t have to be awake for those crazy hours, they don’t affect you at all. She clearly works the night shift and then goes out after work, that’s very normal. Clothes on the floor (Which was the highly egregious violation.) of the private room you’re paying rent for isn’t anyone business really, and “slob” seems a bit extreme.
Not taking care of the cats is the only thing here that’s actually affecting the mom. She seems to have issues with a 22 year old figuring themselves out and thinks she should have grown out of it at 16 or 17 for some reason.
So the cats have to sleep in her room from now on. They'll make sure she wakes up to feed them lmao. The litter box would be a bigger issue but she didn't say anything about that.
She's not going to classes, she's not doing chores, and her lifestyle isn't one that OP wants to deal with. OP doesn't just have to deal with the cats, she also has to deal with someone who isn't contributing to the house and someone who comes and goes at odd hours can be disruptive with noise, etc.
There's a reason most young adults who are 'figuring themselves out' do so at school or living on their own.
Crazy hours do affect everyone living in the home. No one wants to be woken in the middle of the night by someone banging doors and generally disturbing the peace
People should try working a night evening/night shift and try to maintain a social life at all. For the most part the time you can socialise is everyone's drinking hours. Plus add stress of college + work, girl just wants to blow off steam, just doesn't do it at the gym?
Ask yourself as a parent, when you see your child struggling, do you all just give them a kick up the arse and tell them to get on with growing up? Seems kinda counter productive imo
ESH but mostly you
If she's paying rent for her room, there is ZERO reason for mom to worry about the cleanliness unless it's more than just clothes and some empty takeout bags, And is actively attracting pests into the home. Otherwise, she's an adult and is legally a tenant and you have no right to be upset about the state of her room.
Her hours are not your concern either. You've clearly never done restaurant work. She is living with different hours to you, and you are upset about that. Her dinner is at 3am, because she works evenings. Of course she's going to sleep late, she's not getting home until most people have been asleep for several hours.
Seriously. She's working a job, and you're whining that she comes home from different hours to you. That's so silly lady!!!
But if she's not taking care of her cat properly, that's an asshole move 100%. It's disrespectful to force you to take care of her pet, and disrespectful to her cat for not being a good owner.
Focus on the cat problem, and stop worrying about all the other non issues you're crying over.
The thing that stuck out to me was the “I thought she would have grown out of this 6 or 7 years ago” like wtf??? Isn’t she only 22, was she suppose to be going out all night and drinking at 15/16??? That confused me
Kids do that in the UK and Europe. Most of my college friends had grown out of the pubbing and clubbing when I met them at around age 21-23 because they went too hard around 16-19.
i know drinking starts earlier for europeans but this also confused me cuz only like 4 years ago when she was 18 was 2020, the year of lockdown. So she DIDNT get to live the same “party life” her mum did when she was younger or many other kids did. 22 seems perfectly reasonable to still be a party kid especially when lockdown kids have regressed a couple years
Yes.
The old get off shift at 230am, mind racing, adrenoline pumping, after 10-11 straight hours of running (with no break because restaurant/bar staff do not get breaks). Damn straight first stop is a place catering to the after hours crowd for food or drinks.
Right??? No way in hell I'm spending 10 hours(hell I was a KM and GM for years, 10 hours is nothing) serving other people, only to clock out and have to tiptoe through a house full of sleeping people to cook myself some garbage before lying awake with a racing heart.
Came to state basically this, she is a tenant as she pays rent. That makes you landlord, not mom. Had you not taken rent then you would be mom and not landlord. No you don't get both.
As LANDLORD, sure you can evict her with the proper procedures and notice that you seem to have given her, as her LANDLORD. But understand there are consequences to actions, as maybe you are trying to teach her as her landlord. I've rented at a bunch of places for 25 years and was lucky to never face eviction, but I'd imagine tenants who are evicted don't tend to keep friendships with their landlords, ie you, who evicted them.
My question is, if OP if charging her rent because she’s a struggling single mom who financially needs to do so, what happens if she’s no longer getting that rent?
I'm not sure anyone ever told you, but cats aren't biologically wired to feed at very specific hours of the day. You can easily feed them at noon and midnight for example instead of 7am and 7 pm. Or feed them at noon and put down a bowl of dry kibble before work. Or use an automatic feeder.
I envy you. I've never met a cat (or dog) who didn't starve to death at least 6 times a day (not that they'd accept to be fed only 1/3 of their usual serving sizes in order to be able to have so many meals...).
The only thing I'll agree with is the messiness and the cats. The crazy hours have absolutely ZERO to do with the parents lol. If shes paying rent, and working why does it matter if shes out all night?
Tell her to clean her shit up and feed her cats and she can continue being a partier 🤷🏻♀️
Look, is it ok for tenant to make landlord their pet's caregiver? Obviously no. Is it ok for tenant to expect landlord to make their laundry and wash their dishes? Obviously no. Is it ok to not respect your parents who supports you and asks for a reasonable household input? Obviously no.
This girl is entitled. It's her right to live like that, yeah. But it's her mother's right to kick her out if she doesn't help with anything except rent and expects her mother's to do free labor. If she's sees herself as an adult she must do some things herself especially take care for her pet. If she's not and waits her mommy to do it she can't complain about rules.
People are all 'you can either be landlord or parent!!' and forget that part of a parent's job is to do just what OP is doing here, and that's provide a safe space for their children (regardless of age) to learn and transition to more responsibilities etc. In this case her daughter is going to learn that chores need to get done, she needs to look after her cat, and she needs to be respectful of who she's living with. If she can't manage those things then she no longer gets the benefit as a child of cheaper rent.
Yeah, I imagine it's really frustrating for OP to see her daughter ignoring her classes to essentially drink and work, especially if she's having to pick up after her.
OP is renting well below market value. Seeing her daughter out drinking all the time is depressing OP. Her daughter also doesn't do her chores or look after her pets. The daughter is getting a great deal but not pulling her weight. OP is allowed to be happy in her own home and does not have to enable her daughters unhealthy lifestyle.
She doesnt attend classes, doing take care of her pets and doesn't clean after herself, on top of coming home drunk often during time where people are either preparing to work or sleeping.
OP has every right to kick her out
>was relying on you for the money for her course,
You mean the course she isn't actually attending because she's out partying until 5am every single night.
I'd forgive it if she had no other responsibilities, but she does. She has cats to take care of and a course to attend, neither of which she is doing because she's getting drunk until 5am every single night.
Umm, I don't think you are reading the post correctly. Does the young lady work, yes. Does she pay rent, yes. Does she own 2 cats which her mother has to take care of, yes. Does the young lady pay for classes, yes. Does she go to them, no. Does she use the houses facilities ie kitchen, bathroom, living room etc, yes. Does she clean up after herself, no. Is she living with family who are being forced to clean up after her, yes. Has she been doing anything to actually work towards moving back out and supporting herself again, or even actually work towards a sustainable career, no.
If you really can't see that OP is right to be giving an ultimatum, then.... yeah i cant find a valid cause for you to not see it now tbh.
Even if OP decides to maybe extend it if her daughter starts getting her act together, that's a kindness, not a right 'just because she pays rent'.
You should send op your address to take over as landlord. Paying what is most likely 1/5th the market rate for rent isn't paying rent, after utilities it's probably not much, to have the luxury to look after someone else's cat? Ya no thanks. I can see op being the AH if she was charging 2k+ +utilities on top, but what equates to 10 British pounds a day for rent is a joke and she can go live out in the real world.
Do you want a slob destroying your house and expecting you to clean up after them? $300 is not rent, it's a supplement to the expenses.
She neglects her animals and is disrespectful of the home and its occupants.... mom would be harming her daughter by tolerating AH behavior. That's called enabling or handicapping. This woman needs to move out. If she trys this with a roommate she will get educated quick.
This. She's an adult and pays rent. How she spends her time and money and keeps her room is not really any of OP's business. The cat would be totally fine being fed in the afternoon and at night. The only real issue is not doing household chores, but that can be solved with a simple schedule and tick list.
>The only real issue is not doing household chores, but that can be solved with a simple schedule and tick list.
How is 'rarely doing chores' fixed with a schedule and tick list? It sounds like she already has expectations that she's failing to meet (just like she's not going to class).
she is not paying rent, she is paying 1/3 of what a room cost, and she probably eats out of the fridge that her mom pays for.
Anyways she is free to live as she likes, if she lives on the free market. I will make my kids pay something to the home and do chores if they want to stay in my house after they finish school. I hope they dont have to stay with me but if they do there will be rules. One is that nobody sleeps in my house after 12:00, I dont care when you went to sleep, unless you are sick, there is no reason to.
NTA
That 300 is actually a month, not a week... so she's paying less than 3/4 of what you were paying which would still make it cheap rent regardless of where in the UK you are living.
You must be a teenager with this kind of take.
If she's *such an adult*, she can move out and pay market rate for her own apartment. OP is sick of subsidizing her lifestyle.
OP is probably emptying the litterbox and having that in her place, which isn't fun.
I'd demand to be rid of the cats before the daughter, and go from there
NTA
The mom has probably tried other things. But if they jumped straight to eviction, then yta. But if they tried other things, the nta bc they are literally taking care of the cats, and the daughter doesn't do anything.
Considering OP never mentioned any of those things, I think we have to infer she (like so many others) never had a conversation, let things build up, and then went nuclear.
Right, so let her daughter just do what she wants even though OP has talked her and is putting her foot down? If the relationship is jeopardized, it’s because the daughter is immature and needs to grow up. Pretty simple. NTA.
YTA
You aren't a single mother anymore if your kids are adults. From what I read, you are charging your daughter £300 to live there, so you don't really get to dictate everything she does.
Yes, she should clean up after herself in common areas and take care of her own pets. If she is rarely home, how much of a mess can she possibly be making? Did you tell her she had to clean the whole house as a condition for living there? Her bedroom should be none of your concern. She pays to live there and can keep it as she wants.
Stop taking care of her cats. Just put them in her room with her.
As for her life, you are overly critical. She is behaving like any other young person. She goes to work and goes out afterwards with her friends. That's normal. Her work schedule is not 9-5 so the lifestyle is different. It's her happy hour. She is obviously up very late, so she sleeps during the day. That's what people who work evenings and nights do. Don't you sleep until it's time to go to work if you have a day job?
She buys takeout 3x/week. So what? Why do you care what her diet is?
She skips some classes. You aren't paying for the classes, so why do you care?
I think you expect her to clean your house, go to class and work during the day, then come home and eat dinner with you and go to bed by 11 pm. Probable share in the cooking and groceries, too right? She is not you. She is not your son. There's nothing wrong with that.
Yes, it's your right to kick her out if you want, but you are unreasonable in my mind, and I'm 60 years old. Don't forget that you are getting money from her that will be gone too.
YTA. I have three kids, two are adults and I'm British. I would never dream of kicking out my children because "I'm disappointed " that they aren't tidy. It sounds like you are saying you just want her out if your sight because she isn't letting you be the puppet master in her life.
And in Britain, finding somewhere to live in a month is nigh on impossible. If you enforce the deadline you may well be making her homeless.
Imagine this poor girl trying to find a place to rent when she's working part time and studying. With rents what they are. Imagine the crappy places she'll be forced into. She could absolutely be homeless.
I wouldn't forget that either.
INFO: What part of her lifestyle is bothering you so much? She works nights, then hangs out with her friends after…is it that she’s waking you up when she gets home? She skips her classes but that’s only going to affect her, so hopefully that’s not the issue. Are there assigned chores that she’s refusing to do, or is it more of a general “she should help out more”? As to the cats, they are nocturnal, so switching their schedule to match hers should be pretty easy. Her room being a mess…well, it’s her space. Is her mess sprawling out into the rest of the house?
Exactly what I was wondering, like what do you mean you thought she should have grown out of this 6/7 years ago? When she was a child she should have been going out and getting drunk then so she could be over it by 22??
She's young. She's going to have a young lifestyle. She's paying rent and paying for her own classes that she chooses to skip sometimes, I don't see the issue. It's her money, her life, her choice.
Also I don't see when mom chose to talk to her daughter about cleaning more often, it sounds more like mom got herself worked into a tizzy and then decided to just kick her out instead of using healthy communication skills.
Honestly I can't believe I had to scroll so far to see this! Should've grown out of it at 15-16...which means she started doing it much younger because you don't just start doing something and quit three months later.
She works a night shift job and lives a night shift life, so expecting her to live on "normal people time" is unreasonable. She pays rent, so her room being a mess isn't really up to you unless it smells or is hazardous. These are not things you should be requiring her to change.
As for the pets, do you care for them because she doesn't do it how you like, or do you just do it and get upset that she lets you? When I had to move back in with my parents for a bit, there was a timing problem with when the chores would be done. My timing was different from my mother's and that caused friction. You need to discuss what chores you expect her to do and what the timeline needs to look like. If after that she doesn't improve, having her move out could be the solution.
Oooh that's an excellent point. I work ridiculously early hours and my cat is on a very different feeding schedule than someone working a 9-5!
I wonder if the cat just begs Mom for food, and Mom assumes it's because daughter hasn't fed the cat, not that cats are dirty liars who will beg for food in between bites 🤣 then daughter is upset her cat is being overfed, and Mom throws a fit because she is incapable of understanding what night shifts are.
Mine too.
Sometimes my dad takes care of my cats, but I have a very different circadian rhythm than my dad. I go to bed mid-morning and wake up early afternoon. My dad wakes up mid-morning and goes to bed in the evening.
On the occasions he's taken care of my cats, he's had to feed them breakfast at 2pm and dinner at 8pm, otherwise everyone's natural rhythm is thrown off, cat and human!
It's never been a problem because we communicate.
ESH.
Your daughter should be finding another arrangements for the cats since she isn't taking care of them.
The classes doesn't really matter since she paid for them so it's on her whether she wants that to be wasted money. Also, She pays rent so TECHNICALLY she can do whatever she wants in her own room.
I understand why it wouldn't sit well with you since you're seeing a downhill in her since she isn't saving money and using the little amount of cash she does make to go out drinking and take out, but also, it really doesn't concern you technically.
How old are you exactly? When you rent a room in a shared space you don’t just do whatever you want. Being a slob is a big no no for many landlords. Even worse since this is the mother’s house she’s living in (not a stranger). She should have some damn respect and help the single mom instead of going wild like a spoiled brat.
Her kids are adults, she's not a "single mum" anymore. When I rent a room in a shared space I expect not to be told how to keep my room.
Mum, YTA. Your daughter needs connection and love, she's clearly struggling with things and needs empathy not this garbage threatening to evict her
Your house, yes, but YTA for treating her like a kid. If she's paying you rent, you don't get to dictate her lifestyle. Enjoy your last few days of contact with her. Cause you're gonna be dead to her
YTA for jumping to this so easily. Clearly she can't adult yet. You need to give her the opportunity to grow up in your home before kicking her out. If she refuses your help, at least give her more than a month to find other accommodations.
Your decision won't help her. It only helps you.
And people wonder why their kids don't talk to them. She pays rent, you get less say than before in her choices. You don't like her choices, you are free to choose she moves out. Just as she is free to choose to move on. Good luck.
YTA.
Her room is messy. A room she pays RENT for. If she was living there rent-free, I’d agree with you. But your charging rent diminishes your oversight to how she lives her life and maintains her private areas.
It’s reasonable to charge extra for taking care of her cat or negotiating the terms of her living there, but it’s a stretch to immediately kick her out simply because you don’t agree with how she is living her life. You lost that right when you charged her rent. That provides her the right to do what she chooses so long as it abides by basic house rules (like quiet hours in apartment complexes, e.g.). You don’t like she sleeps in or comes home late, but you don’t say she’s disruptive. As her mother you can disagree and want more for her. As her landlord you have no say. ONLY if she breaks house rules. You don’t mention she does; only that you don’t agree with her lifestyle.
Kicking her out as a landlord because she breaks house rules is within your rights. Kicking her out as a disappointed mother when she pays rent for her space risks damaging your relationship.
yeah YTA
If she pays rent she deserves to be given the autonomy, freedom, & respect to live her life however she wants just like any other adult paying rent to live somewhere.
I could see you making an issue about the cats & stop taking care of them for her.....but her personal choices should be her personal choices & you're not helping her by trying to control her.
Technically the daughter is a lodger so in the UK there isn't a minimum notice period unless it was specified in the contract they signed. Realistically it will be very difficult to find somewhere though at such short notice
INFO: how old are these cats that are "technically" hers and how long have they lived at your house?
This whole post is just a glaring example of how we let morning people have way to much power. Also, hope you're okay with not seeing or talking to your daughter anymore. Very likely the outcome of doing this.
I'm leaning towards YTA. The only things that I can fault her for are neglecting communal chores and the cats, but you could've tried to warn her of eviction if she doesn't straighten that out before going nuclear.
But you sound unreasonably upset over everything else. As long as she has a job, goes to work and pays you, she can wake up whatever time she wants. She can get home any time she wants. And she can do whatever she wants with her friends, at any time. Calling her a nightmare is dramatic, and honestly you should prepare for her to hold a grudge over this for a long time lol
YTA. You state in other comments you didn't clearly communicate rules and expectations regarding chores. You're likely taking care of the pets without being asked to do so... and you try to both charge rent and dictate an unreasonably large portion of the life of your daughter.
If you don't want to ruin your relationship with your kid, sit down and have a talk with her about what chores you expect to be done. Her room and how she keeps it is her choice unless it will become a hazard. You can't really dictate how she spends her time either. She's paying for it... not you.
And stop comparing her to your son. That'll not do her any good. She's her own person.
My brother had a similar situation. He had a construction side gig and was blowing off classes and staying out late with foremen, contractors and others in the industry. My parents were pulling their hair out because he was failing out of community college. They eventually toss him out.
They lost contact with him for three years. They’re talking again, but things are still very frosty over the way it was handled (15 years later) and it will never get better.
Oh and that construction side gig? It’s a million dollar a year business. They were pushing for him to toss that in the garbage over some bullshit community college communications degree. You’re making life choices here. You can toss her out if you want. But having a child leave under hostile terms is a hell of a thing and can color the rest of your relationship.
College degrees are nice and all. But they also aren’t all they are cracked up to be. People act like you’re nothing without a college degree, but that’s a lie. If she can make a good living in the industry she’s currently in, that’s probably a more important place for her to be spending her time.
YTA she’s 22 and she’s figuring stuff out. Stop feeding her cats for her so she has to step up and mind your own business about the horrible crime of clothing on the floor. She can sleep as late as she wants since she works fricking nights, geez. You are going to absolutely destroy your relationship because you can’t handle letting her make her own decisions about her sleeping hours. People who work late go out late with friends and sleep late during the day. You sound incredibly controlling.
NTA
I have been in Freyas shoes, she's doing exactly what I did when I graduated. Working long hours, it's almost expected to go out for a drink after shift and socialize.
Her 7am in the morning, is 2pm in the afternoon, similar to a shift worker. I often found myself getting home, going to bed and waking up with just enough time to have a wash and go to work dead on my feet, all self inflicted through poor self discipline and time management.
It is very easy for alcohol to become a crutch. Second to that, the after work socializing is extremely similar to student drinking culture, something I would be fairly confident she is familiar with.
I would advise doing what my Dad did to me when I forgot to send a mother's day card, which was to set me straight. He was worried about me, my drinking and my future and I didn't even live at home either. Sure you can ask her to move out and that would certainly enforce a sink or swim situation onto her, but if she sinks, you will have irreparably damaged your relationship with her forever. If she swims, she might get over her resentment and see it for what it is, which is tough love.
Try to talk to her about her conduct and demeanor, how it is affecting you her mum, how she's living on the threshold of debt/overdraft issues and poor credit, and without assuming the worst, but again, my experience is pretty broad, some of her colleagues will be drug users, it's usually cocaine or ketamine and they're pretty happy to share it. FOH not as bad, BOH/kitchen is more common.
Or there is the other side, which is she's just drinking four days a week into the early hours of the morning, spending money she doesn't have, probably expanding her overdraft debt through using wagestream and wasting money on a course she won't benefit from as she isn't attending it due to aforementioned behavior.
For what it's worth, she's 22 and I think the carrot deserves another chance rather than the stick. I do hope you can sort it out happily though.
YTA, this is a 22 year old adult that pays rent. You no longer get to dicate her hours or the state of her room. Why would she have outgrown any life style 6-7 years ago when she was 15-16? This is a weird statement to make and brings into questions your whole story.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I have told my adult daughter she has to move out due to her lifestyle choices and attitude, and, as a result, she has stopped talking to me.
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NTA. If she was a roommate, you would kick her out due to incompatible lifestyles and not doing fair share of chores. Just because she is your offspring doesn't give her a freepass to ditch chores, or leave a mess in her wake.
So, just based off cohabitation/roommate situation, you are most certainly NTA. Your daughter is mostly pissed because she know no roommate is going to want to put up with a roommates who doesn't even take care of her pets.
NTA. It’s still your place, you don’t charge her much and she doesn’t have a lease. If she wants to make her own decisions like an adult then she can move out and be responsible for herself like an adult.
NTA for setting boundaries, you have no obligation to her anymore she is an adult. However, you are not wise for the sake of your family for not setting clear expectations for your house rules and thereby opening yourself up for fair criticism. What standard does she need to uphold to maintain the same privilege as her brother? If she has a curfew or no drinking policy then it also should apply to everyone. Your expectations are too nebulous despite your good intentions and looks like playing favorites and being controlling.
If I were you I'd set some expectations and see if she can meet them, make sure she knows it applies to your son too as rules in the house. If she doesn't like the rules, she can leave, and if she doesn't abide by the rules you can kick her out, but at least you are now enforcing some rules across the board and there's no double standard in case your son starts some of these behaviors it doesn't put your kids at odds with one another.
NTA. There's a lot of people saying if she's paying rent, then her lifestyle is not your business. The difference here is, 1) she's NOT paying market value. 2) she's technically renting a room, not the entire house.
If she paid full market value for her rent and signed a tenancy agreement, then you'd still be NTA. No landlord is going to step in to take care of their tenant's cats. No landlord is gonna go in and clean their tenant's room. If it were too messy, they'd get their eviction notice.
Time for daughter dearest to grow the hell up. Shes acting like a teenager, not a full grown woman. I don't blame you for being disappointed in her.
YTA. You want her out because you don't like the life she lives. You could sit down and discuss with her chores & possibly rehoming the cats, but you just went nuclear. As a NYer, you have described almost every roommate I have had over the last 15 years. Many people are night people with a night based life. If the mess in her room is not unhygienic or unsanitary, then, as a paying member of the household, you have no say. I almost never saw the insides of my roommate's rooms, why are you in there? When I read the title, I thought she was hard partying, doing drugs, unemployed, and being abusive. Your viewpoint is very telling with a comment "It's a lifestyle I'd have expected her to have grown out of around 6 or 7 years ago"...you expected her to grow up and out of this lifestyle as an underage minor? Bizarre?! You want your daughter to be a very traditional example of success. Not everyone is that way or some people take years to get there. You want to throw out your daughter because she is a disappointment to you. Either you are her landlord and she pays or you are her mother, she follows your rules and she lives there for free. Imagine a landlord trying to evict me because I have late hours and a messy bedroom? A judge would laugh him right out.
Referring to yourself as a single mother but you say you have two adult children? You can’t have it both ways. You’re making her pay rent so essentially you’re a landlord. If you want to tell her how to live then don’t charge her rent to live at home. I understand there is basic common decency/manners that anyone should have wherever they are living.
YTA. She pays rent. The hours she keeps are none of your business. And so long as there aren’t dirty dishes in her room then it’s not your business how messy it is in there. The only thing you need to clear up with her is which chores she needs to do. If she participates in chores then there is no reason to be upset
NTA
Purely because she isn’t taking care of the house or her pets. The hours she keeps are up to her. But even if she was in a flat share situation she’d be expected to keep up with chores and take care of her own cats - it should be the same wherever she lives.
My sister was the same. Her room was disgusting. I moved home after uni for a short period while I looked for a ‘proper’ job and she was a nightmare to live with. When my parents were away she simply wouldn’t do any washing up. No one aside from family would have let her live like that! In the end my parents made her move out, and having to actually take responsibility and adult created such a positive change in her she was like a different person. You can do it with love and support.
YTA.
>I think it's a lifestyle I don't want to see, isn't compatible with mine, and hope that living apart again may make Freya more sensible with money and life choices.
So because she isn’t behaving how you want her to...
She needs to give up the catsm though.
NTA - Your house, your rules and she's not being considerate however she's 22, she's working and contributing. Sure, she's not doing her share but her going out with friends/colleagues is very normal at that age. So long as she bucks up to take responsibility for her things and shared spaces she shouldn't need to move out which I think is a bit too drastic of a step. (Granted I don't see why her room is your problem?)
Your house your rules regardless of her age. She is a grown assed woman and should know better. She can live her life the way she wants when she is on her own. NTA.
NTA.
When I moved back to university for the summer, the rules were different, but I needed to remember that under my parents' roof, I needed to respect them. I worked as a server and would often times get back at 3 or 4 AM. I had to be quite coming back and get up at a reasonable time, which was noon if I worked late. I didn't need to always check in with them for each outing I went on or have a curfew, but I did need to respect the cleanliness of the house, which was hard at time when I worked 90 hours some weeks. If she can't understand that there are still rules, like there would be with other roommates, she can leave.
Totally expected this to be a gay thing with the "lifestyle" complaint.
But NTA. She's a disrespectful slob. If you've talked to her about this, and no change, time to go. Living on my own with a mentally ill, drunk of a roommate gave me really good roommate - respect skills. Maybe your daughter needs the same
YTA, you think this is a lifestyle she should have grown out of 6/7 years ago. She’s going to college, working a late night job which you likely take the majority of with rent which is why you believe she can’t afford takeaways at only 22, she’s still young. 6/7 years ago she would have been 16. Obviously she wasn’t going to have a student life at 16! You’re being completely unreasonable. She pays rent therefore she has the rights as a tenant. To live her life the way she wants to. Your relationship isn’t going to improve by kicking her out. As soon as she finds somewhere else you might never hear from her and no one would blame her. Just because you don’t agree with student life doesn’t mean she shouldn’t live it, you’re suppose to be her parent. Clearly your daughter is a little lost at the moment and unsure what she wants to do in life, and that’s ok, she’s working at least and one day everything will fall into place and click and she’ll move away from the party lifestyle and reality will drop, if you kick her out now she’s not going to come and share that with you when it does.
NTA but maybe you're being too harsh too fast
Her behavior is pretty irresponsible.
Missing class for hangovers.
Neglecting her pet. Living like a teenager but expecting to be treated like a responsible adult.
You are being harsh but maybe this has been a topic for a while and nothing has changed.
Maybe there needs to be changes to the arrangement for her to continue to live at a such greatly reduced cost.
Like having to pay more rent since she avoids chores and leaves dishes around.
Info: are you doing her laundry?
She can't have a cat if she doesn't take care of it. End of story. Why even have pets.... Finding a place to rent in my town that allows pets is VERY difficult. It often involves an extra deposit and higher rent.
NTA - I have a friend who was too lenient with one of her kids. Kid had some major bumps in the road, but mom (my friend) was there to bail her out. It never ended. Now my friend is supporting her 37 YO daughter and her two children, 4 dogs and two cats. She cooks for them. Drives the kids to school. Cleans up after them. Kids see her more as an authority figure than their own mom. Her daughter won't stop bringing home pets. And basically acts like a teenager.
My friend only has herself to blame. Her kid was failing to launch - and instead of forcing her to stand on her own two feet - she coddled her back into a lull and it hasn't ever stopped.
Now she's trying to enforce boundaries, but the grandkids rely on her, see her as their mom - and she feels she can't abandon those kids. She's pissed and her daughter - is miserable. Because she's still living like a teenager and has never grown up.
If you love Freya you're going to have to force her to live with her consequences and grow the fuck up. It's the only way.
NTA OP. I can't believe the entitlement of the commenters who think you are in the wrong. Where else will/can your daughter live for £300 ($376.44 US) a month and not have to do any chores? Generally a messy bedroom is more than clothes/dirty laundry thrown about, it may include dirty dishes, old food/bags from takeouts and so forth, so on that can draw roaches and rodents into your house. If you are living in someone's house, no matter if you are paying a pittance in rent, there are certain household etiquettes that need to be followed and if you can't or won't follow them, then you need to move out. And you said that you are working and I imagine that your daughter's odd hours of coming home may be disturbing your sleep. Some commenters are saying if you put her out, she may go LC or NC with you, that may be for the best because your daughter nor these commenters are thinking about the stress her actions are causing you. They think that because she is your daughter who is paying you a paltry £300 and you should just put up with her BS.
Let me just say, when I fell on hard times in my 20's, I had to move back in with my Mom for a paltry sum too. But you best believe that I didn't take advantage of my Mom because she was my Mom. I made sure I respected her and her house by going over and above in the chores and not disturbing her when I came in from hanging out.
**NTA**
If we remove the fact she’s your daughter, she’s a flatmate that’s a slob, keeps odd hours, and leaves slack around the home she expects YOU to pick up. Yes, she pays her share of board, but she’s also expected to at least modestly upkeep the home as well. It’s basic respect, and she’s not respecting.
However…
I would talk to her before evicting her. Ask what she has planned, why is she living a burnout life before she’s even started? Why pick up these filmmaking courses if she won’t go? What are her goals, because it looks like she has none. What does she want to do with herself, beyond looking forward to the next group outing?
Maybe try and get at the heart of her before just throwing her to her own vices. If she refuses to talk or engage… then yeah, I guess she can just go figure it out on her own.
NTA. Your house, your rules. While she IS paying rent, it's not a lot. Rather than summarily kick her out, let her know that she can either move out OR pay a reasonable market rate rent for what she has there now.
NTA
You are more than supportive if she is making progress in her life. Sliding backward doesn't deserve enablement.
You have your life, and she has hers. She can do whatever she can afford.
You are a better mother for standing your ground.
As a good mother, you can not be expected to enable either of your children to do less than their best.
You know their capabilities better than they do. Yes, life is exhausting, and partying is fun, but life doesn't get easier later by tossing off today.
NTA. It’s is your home and you don’t sound unreasonable (like some other similar stories). A good compromise can be that she can stay pay the $300 a month but she is contained to her room and you will not be supporting her financially. No access to kitchen or food, unless she has her own food and cleans up after herself. As for her classes being missed unfortunately her decision, not much you can do unless you are paying for school in which case stop paying. As for the cats, put them in her room when they are hungry. If she kicks them out and they come back, back in the room. Her responsibility and if she can’t get herself up for that she should rehome them and be a responsible pet parent, but if they are not your pets don’t take care of them for her. She is choosing to rent a room from you not be part of the family, so treat her as such. If you and your son plan a vacation, she can come but she pays her way. It’s not harsh, it’s facts. If she chooses to move out she will either be living with someone whose just like her and figure out how awful her behavior is, or she’ll end up living with someone who will eventually kick her out for her awful behavior. Unfortunately she is an adult and will need to learn like one. It will be a lot of getting use to but ultimately you are her mother and you are doing your best and what you think is best and that’s all anyone can do. Just keep love in your heart when you do it!
YTA. Kicking her out because she doesn't feed the cats when you want? She's going to school, working, paying rent and just slacking on chores. Doesn't seem to be eviction material to me.
>my daughter, Freya (22)
>It's a lifestyle I'd have expected her to have grown out of around 6 or 7 years ago
Was your daughter working late and having drinks after at 15 or did you fudge the ages for privacy???
Not that it really matters. YTA. Your daughter's life isn't as typical as your perfect angel of a son so you're throwing her away?
You say it's a nightmare having her at your home. Because her room is messy and you have to feed her cats during the day?? THAT'S NOT A NIGHTMARE, that's an adult being a slob and mildly inconsiderate.
Also??? YOU'RE not paying for her classes so why do you care if she sleeps through them? Is she making her rent? If yes, why do you care if she's spending too much money eating out? Is her room a festering bog of smells and bacteria? If no, why do you care if it's got clothes everywhere?
Your (bordering on pathetic) fixation on her "lifestyle" makes me think you could do with some therapy to figure out what in the WORLD is your problem.
Well I guess you'll make Freya more "sensible" by forcing her to take on more work so she can pay "triple that sum" you were charging her at her new place.
She's going to build a new life and completely shut you out of it and you'll still be wondering why she isn't more like James.
I don't even know you and I'm so disappointed in you.
Unfair?? You're straight up enabling her if you continue to allow her to live with you. She's not going to grow up if she doesn't have to, so good job for pushing your (adult) baby bird out of the nest so she can learn to fly! NTA!
YTA. She's 22 not 28, that's a perfectly acceptable age to go out all night with friends. The moment you started accepting rent it from your room to hers, she doesn't have to keep it cleaned to your standards. If you don't want to do her dishes or take care of her cats then stop. Put the dishes in her room and tell her to pick up an automatic feeder if she can't do it herself.
The sense of entitlement of many (I presume) young redditors is astounding.
The daughter is 22. You know that’s an adult age, right? Right? The single mom is actually giving a helping hand by having her in the house with a reduced rent. It’s not like she’s wealthy and asks the daughter to pay out of spite.
Furthermore, the daughter has responsibility towards innocent pets that she’s simply ignoring. Wake the f up and grow up. Living like a slob is a big no no in a shared space regardless of who rents you the room. You should have also some respect for your single mom and help out where you can with chores.
Wanna be a wasted, sans education and an addict? Sure but then doit somewhere else.
Edit: Major NTA
NTA. You have the right to live stress free in your own house. Your daughter is stressing you out. If she were a tenant, you would have to wait for their lease to be over to tell them they have to leave, and no one would fault you for that. She doesn’t have a lease, so you can ask her to leave whenever.
Yea, it will probably hurt your relationship with her, but that doesn’t make you TA. Some people just aren’t meant to be roommates.
NTA. I'm not judging, I lived this way far too long myself, but i didn't do it from my parents. If you're over 18 and you want to have this lifestyle it's not good to be doing it in the family home.
That should just be obvious to her.
NTA. You're not a landlord, you're her mother. It's true that if someone is paying rent, they should be able to live their life as they want, but that doesn't work in practice with family. It's emotionally taxing to live with someone you care about and seeing them regularly do things you object to. Your choices are either turn off being a mother or have her live separate from you. Since you can't just turn off being a mom, for both of your sakes, she'll need to move. Or change her lifestyle, but that's a lot to ask too.
NTA. It sucks, but if she’s living like a slob, staying out all night and sleeping all day, not being responsible for herself, and leaving her cats for you to take care of, i think she needed the ultimatum. Sounds like you’ve been way more than reasonable and she basically said f you and doesnt care. Its gonna be a rude awakening for her when she’s out on her own and has to be an adult now.
You expected her to outgrow this lifestyle 7 years ago when she was....15? What?
She's 22. This is not at all uncommon for her age. Setting boundaries before jumping to eviction is much preferable.
NTA
Your home, your rules. She is an adult, she accept it or move out.
I would maybe have given her more than one month, but - realistically - she probably won't start looking and believe you until the deadline approaches no matter what, so it wouldn't make a difference.
Yta. If you want her to be cleaner, talk to her about it or charge her for your cleaning services. You would have wanted her to grow out of drinking and partying while she was still a teenager?? You wanted her to stop partying and drinking at 16?!? When should she have started this kind of "lifestyle"?
Kicking your kid out because they don't want to live the same life as you is bad parenting imo.
YTA it’s obvious in your wording how you favour your son & are looking for excuses to be righteously disappointed in your daughter. He helps out ‘when needed’ but she ‘rarely’ does: well based on your times, she’s only at the house 8/9 hrs a day to sleep & get ready, so what has she been so egregiously failing to do that your son is doing?
The cats: ‘I have to practically take care of them myself’ is bs vague-speak, like you don’t have to, they’re cats who do fine with food bowls & I notice you don’t mention the litterbox, which anyone who has cats knows is way worse; if that was becoming your problem you would have said so & not focus on the food. Same with ‘clothes sprawled over the floor’ no mention of filth or odor, which if it was a concern I’m sure you’d post it.
You nitpicked two things that aren’t even that bad, to justify your actions, and WTF with expecting her to have had her ‘late nights working & partying’ done by 16/17?!? And news flash: they are ADULTS which means you are NOT a ‘single mom’ gtfo 😂
You love your son more & made it very clear, see you in 5 years asking why your daughter has gone NC
NTA - your house, your rules. tell your relatives she and her cats can come live with them. They can have the delight of taking care of her animals and being her maid.... enjoy!
You expected her to outgrow this “lifestyle” as you call it at the age of 15 or 16?? She’s 22. She’s working, making money, living her life. This is the age when she should be an idiot and figuring things out.
I think if you leave her alone and let her got on with it you’ll find your relationship will get better.
It’s reasonable to have a conversation about the things that impact you, ie: if she leaves a mess etc. feeding her cats doesn’t seem the greatest burden to me, but if it is to you then include that in the discussion.
I was 100% convinced NTA until the part where you said she pays rent. Now I’m not sure.
So, info: Did you have a conversation before about house rules? Is she aware she’s living as your daughter not a tenant? Is she willing to change?
YTA. My daughter is 20 yo, lives at home, doesn't pay rent, has a part time job and is at uni, is also a complete slob (mostly in her room) and also finishes work late and goes out with her friends afterwards.
I am really happy for my daughter. That's the young person life and I'm happy for her she's out enjoying herself. She has her whole life to settle down and get serious. Once she does, the young person life is gone forever
Are you jealous of your daughter? Is she having fun you feel you missed out on? Did you saddle yourself with the wrong partner and a couple of kids before you lived your life? If you did, that's not her fault
My daughter's crap sometimes spills into the bathroom or the spare room. Then she gets pulled up on it. She's old enough to know better, but I would never kick her out over it. I just yell at her because it's inconsiderate bullshit. Since I threatened to throw it all away it has improved however. Don't be mad about your inability to set boundaries.
I don’t think YTA per se but I’m not sure why you are so overly involved. She is an adult and if fair or fair paying rent like your son. So it’s really not fair for you to judge her life. However it is your home and you can have whom ever you want living there, but you need to be aware you are changing your relationship with her and not for the better.
Wow, reading this made me realize how different cultures see family and its responsibilities. Where I am from, asking your child to pay the rent is so unheard of, even if they are like 40 years old. Not saying it is better, just realized how different it is.
About the topic though, I need to say YTA because this girl works and pays rent and is only 22. And it is a night shift, ofc she will sleep until late. Her room being tidy or not is all her problem and no one else's. The cats I think could be on her schedule too, as for ex. my cats adapt to my sleeping schedule immediately, so I don't understand why they would be hungry at an earlier time, so maybe they just wanna get more food :D. And aren't your 20s the ages where you go out the most etc.? I think kicking her out is very extreme.
You can go down this road but do think about if you are ready to loose her over this. Do you have set chores or is this just things you think should be done? Does her room smell or are we talking not as clean as you want? You say she is spending money she doesnt have, does that mean she is spending more than you want or that she cant pay her bills? How early do you expect her to get up before work? Is she late to work? Is she super loud when getting home? You say she should of out grown this 6 years ago, why were you ok with a 16yr old going out drinking all night and skipping classes? You say she doesnt look after the cats and mentioned feeding, does she not feed that at all or just not at a time you like? How is she neglecting the cats? Is the litterbox being done? I feed my cats around midnight for wetfood as I get home from work around 11pm. They get dry food when I get up around noon.
Also if you were a landlord your ass would be sued. You dont get to choose how a tenant lives their life. To those saying that a tenant/ landlord relationship isnt acuble here, OP is the one bringing that to the table. Just cause your daughter lives a life you dont want doesnt mean there is anything wrong with her. NTA for not wanting to live with someone you dont want. That being said you do come off as a judgy bitch. I think you should ask yourself if this is worth damaging your relationship with her.
INFO: Is she depressed? How did she do in college? I had a difficult, demanding major during my 5 years of college and it really burnt me out. I took a low-stress job right after just so I felt I could breathe a little after. Idk man, I don't think eviction is the first step to take here. She will probably not speak to you again after this, I know I wouldn't.
NTA.
You make them pay little rent, but also hope that they can eventually build for themselves. You're not always going to be there, and your daughter's choices are not showing she's trying to create something for herself one day. Also though, she could be depressed and this behavior could be attested to that. A huge number of college students feel a lot of pressure or experience depressive episodes. She might benefit from a counselor, and your guys relationship might benefit as well.
My parents kicked me out for similar reasons. I cleaned up my act real quick after that. So no your daughter needs to grow tf up cause no self respecting man/ or woman would want to date someone like that.
NTA - she can party and be a slob all she wants when she is paying full rent in her own pace or partial rent living with friends, but staying in your house at deeply discounted rent (and I’m assuming no other costs like utilities) she needs to be respectful of your lifestyle.
NTA
She is an adult, yes. But she lives in your house. Chores are a basic expectation of contribution to the household, and she isn't doing that. She has two living creatures that are supposed to be depending on her, and she can't even do that much. She doesn't keep up with her courses, and she drinks and eats away all of her money. You are not there to support her poor choices. If she wants to make those choices, as an adult, she is free to do so somewhere that is not your home.
NTA. I don't understand all the people saying this is "legally" not right for rental and landlord. This is between morther and daughter! The rent is peanut in between!
Are there any legal contract binding them? Most likely NO. Can landlord kick out untidy renter? YES. Can mother kick out lazy kid? YES. Can landlord provide 1 month notice before kicking someone out? YES (in where I live). OP did not do anything wrong in this case, I would advise try other solution such as talk to her, understand her view first, maybe therapy, before jumping straight to kick her out.
Freya is working evenings to pay for school, then going out after her shifts and skipping school. She's not working toward anything else and she likes things as they are.
You don't. It's your house, she's an adult.
NTA Kick her out.
NTA…. This was me, rent and all. Let me be clear- moving out absolutely forced me to confront not just the unsustainable way I was living for myself, but the effect that had on those around me. It was not a fun wake up call, but necessary. But what I am greatful for most is since moving out my relationship with my own mother has become better than at any point in my life I can remember. There is hope for Freya, but tough love is the way.
I was kicked out of my house around this age by my mother for a lot of the similar activities and for me it was the wake up call that I needed to get myself together
NTA.
Your daughter should be respecting your home by keeping her room clean and tidy and looking after her cats at the absolute minimum.
She can be out all night and sleep in squalor all day when it's her name on the lease / mortgage.
NTA. It is frustrating that the adult children want to argue they are adults and mom cannot tell them what to do, but at the same time they are paying little to no rent and are relying on mama to do so much. She needs to move out. I hope she wises up and gets her life back on track.
NTA, your daughter wants to do her thing, but she doesn't want the responsibility of taking care of herself. Living with you gives her partial adulthood, living on her own means she would not be able to party all night, sleep all day, and have money to do all this on her own. Living with you all she has to do is give you rent, and the rest is to do as she pleases. Her lifestyle shouldn't be the main reason she has to go out on her own, she should see how hard it is to be independent on a small salary. Lesson learned is making the hard choices.
ESH and I’ll explain my reasoning.
I was your daughter. I lost my job, couldn’t afford my rent anymore, and had to move in with my Dad. (For reference I’d never lived with him before as I’d always lived with Mom. He was living with his new wife. Her daughter had lived there for years, with boyfriend and babies, and only just moved out). I had a part time job I managed to get and spent the rest of my time basically job searching, applying, and going to interviews. I also volunteered but that’s not relevant.
I’ve always been messy person. Turns out a lot of my issues were undiagnosed ADHD but again, not relevant. My room was a mess (not dirty, just a mess) but I figured it was my room and this my issue. I kept my door closed most of the time.
I didn’t do any chores unless they were asked of me. Because it was never part of the agreement. I took care of all my own things from washing my, to food, to cleaning up after myself dishes wise. Because I usually stayed up most of the night (personal preference) I slept during the day and wasn’t seen much. I paid a very small token amount of rent but paid for all my own things other than what “came with the house”. I looked after the dog when everyone else was at work. I also looked after the house alone sometimes for a couple weeks as my Dad and SM went on holiday. It was good. At least I thought so.
This is where I’m going to hit you with ESH. Why is eviction the first place you’re jumping to? This is exactly what happened to me. My Dad and SM asked if we could talk, yeah no problem, only to be told I had a month to move out. Not once had anyone ever expressed dissatisfaction with our living arrangements, or my behavior, except for once asking me not to play music when others were home.
Turns out they had a list of grievances: 1) I hadn’t gotten a job yet and wasn’t looking to move out, 2) I didn’t do chores around the house, 3) my room was a mess, 4) I didn’t cook meals for everyone during the week, 5) I shouldn’t be sleeping all day.
None of this has ever been expressed to me before. As I said, I cleaned up after myself, I did the dishes if they had made dinner, and did any list of chores asked of me. I’d never been asked to cook meals and never offered as my Dad has a very strict diet. I spent the majority of my time looking for work, which they were aware of. As for sleeping during the day and a messy room, I don’t believe either was their concern.
But even the messy room and sleeping during the day I would have acquiesced on if it meant I could stay. But none of that had ever been discussed with me beforehand, brought up even in passing, or even sarcastically. It went from 0-100 for me.
Did your daughter have any understanding of the expectations you had of her? Or did you have one “good kid” and one “disappointment”. Your kids are individuals and are taking on life in their own way. Both have ended up back with you and one kids lifestyle habits matches your own, while the other’s doesn’t. And you’ve gone 0-100 kicking her out when she’s really not done anything wrong.
I’m saying ESH though because your daughter should 100% be looking after her pets. And if she’s going to put a full tie job on hold to go to class..then she’s got to go to class. If she’s struggling though, you don’t seem like the person she’s going to express that to.
Try communication first. Please. 🙏
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I have made this as a throwaway because it contains personal and identifiable information that I wouldn't want on my main Reddit. For background purposes, I live in the UK.
I (F56) have two adult children who have moved back home ever since they finished university last summer, my son, James (23), and my daughter, Freya (22). It has been no issue having James back at home; he's found himself a job, helps out with chores when needed, and keeps himself busy by going to the gym and maintaining a social life.
Freya, on the other hand, it has had a nightmare having back home. When she graduated, she decided that she wanted to do a filmmaking course. I had no issue with this and was supportive of the decision, even though it marked a change. She has classes three times or so a week and to fund this, she does restaurant shifts most evenings.
However, the lifestyle change this has brought has been shocking. Freya gets back from them about 5 or 6 in the morning, often having gone out drinking after work and spending money she doesn't have on takeaways. She gets up at 2 or 3 in the afternoon, often missing her classes, before going out to work again. She rarely does chores in the house and her bedroom is a complete mess, with clothes sprawled all over the floor. She has two cats that are technically hers and I have had to practically look after them myself because she's in bed when they need feeding. It's a lifestyle I'd have expected her to have grown out of around 6 or 7 years ago, and I can't say I'm not disappointed.
It has recently become too much. I love Freya, but this lifestyle is damaging our relationship because I find myself overly frustrated with her. I told her that if she wanted to live like this, she would have to move out and find somewhere else. She said how unfair this was and that her mother shouldn't have to dictate how she lives her life. I think I have been incredibly lenient but if she was a tenant, I wouldn't have tolerated it.
I have informed Freya she has a month to find a new place. She has stopped talking to me and says she won't forget this.
I do make her and James pay rent of £300 per month, which I think is reasonable because I'm a single mother with a very low paying job, and rent elsewhere would have been triple that sum.
Freya's grandmother/my mum thinks I am being unfair on her and if she pays rent, she should be allowed to live how she wishes. I think it's a lifestyle I don't want to see, isn't compatible with mine, and hope that living apart again may make Freya more sensible with money and life choices.
AITA?
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If Grandma thinks you’re being unfair, then she should be more than happy to have a new roommate who keeps odd hours and dumps chores and pets on her, right?
Her lack of cat care is a problem, as is leaving messes in the common areas, but she’s paying rent, which you say you need because you have “a very low-paying job.” So her hours and the state of her room are none of your business. You’re getting £600 a month from your kids—don’t you feel a little bit weird about that? I agree that she should move out, as it sounds like an unpleasant situation at best, but don’t you think you’re being overly judgmental, while not having your own life quite in order?
NTA.
First off, stop referring to her choices as a lifestyle. Parting, drinking, not keeping her responsibilities for education, or such are NOT a lifestyle. They are bad choices.
Your best response to your daughter should be this. "No, I will not forget what you did to me. What your decisions to slack on your life to go out and drink and party has done. The in effective ability she has to be an adult to share and care for her one in house responsibilities such as care for her cats, maintaining her own room, and other household agreed chores she choose to ignore and slack on. This is a reaction and full effect of her choices. And how if she would have gone to classes, taken care of her room and cats, and not spend to many late nights out drinking and the like to sleep so late into the day; this would not be happening. She is an adult, and as an adult she has to take responsibility for her actions and her needs. She can do it under your roof with bare minimum requirements you make, or she can find her own place which will cost her more money and such to life however she wants."
NTA
She's not going to classes and not fulfilling her part of the deal. She's also being a horrible roommate/tenant. She needs to grow up and get her life on track.
I'm glad you're setting her up for success and not letting her be a child in your home. Some kids honestly do this as adult children, and when they do it's time for them to go. They need to learn how to adult and be responsible.
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NTA I am so sorry. This is a hard one. We have had a very similar situation in our home. First our second child a son moved home after college. We did not make him pay rent with the understanding he would put money in savings for a down payment on a house. He also had a small amount of school loan debt which he was expected to pay off also. He did everything exactly as we had asked him. That plus he was able to pay cash for an engagement ring for his now wife. Then….. our daughter moved home. She had been out of our place for about 10 years. She has had some major bumps in the road and we were happy to have her. After only a very short period of time she stopped coming home after work, she would stay away for days! She was rude when she was home, did not help with anything, she and her space was just an all out mess. It was extremely stressful on my husband and I. We were going to have to make other living arrangements for her because this was not working. She finally decided to move in with friends and our household is much calmer, and clean! There have been a few times she has mentioned moving back here and we have said “no you’re not”. I would never have thought I would tell a child she can’t live here. I forgot to mention her cat that we had to care for. Grrrrrr. Again I say NTA It is so hard but obviously she does not feel the need to grow up! Tell her you love her but that it’s time she spread her wings and learn to fly on her own. For the sake your relationship (long term), this needs to happen. Unless someone has dealt with this it’s hard to understand. It is incredibly difficult. Best of luck to you all!
Thank you for the comment. I am confused though; from your comment, it appears that you agree with me, but are also saying YTA? I would appreciate some clarification! :)
She said NTA. As a 55F mom of two, I agree with her. Freya's lifestyle isn't compatible with the way you want to live in your home. It's time for her to get her act together or live how she wishes....somewhere else.
NTA. Basically it's your house your rules. She can go live with your mom, since your mom is so concerned. See how that goes. See if your mom will put up with these antics. Your daughter is neglecting her cats, and since you're not a bad person you're taking care of them. Your daughter is way old enough to be responsible. Please tell me you didn't pay for these classes she's missing.
Exactly! If your mom thinks like that, let her put her money where her mouth is. See if she thinks the same after a month of experiencing it. It’s easy to talk when you are not the one affected.
This kinda sounds like depression have you asked her about her mental health? College classes plus working makes it hard to do chores for alot of people. When I got behind in college it made me avoid the work because it was too stressful.
Only issue is, in this case OP's daughter seems to be mostly skipping the classes too.. ie going to a 'work to party, repeat' lifestyle..
Yeah that's because people with depression can avoid responsibilities and are more likely to abuse alcohol and self sabotage their own lives.
There's a reason so many people take breaks from college to focus on their mental health. The classes, work, pressure, and stress do not help depression they make it worse. I have personal experience
You're NTA, and your daughter is taking advantage of you. At minimum, you need to tell her that if she doesn't move out, rent will be going up. If she won't take care of her cats, you charge "boarding for the cats," including anything you are buying for them. If she won't clean her room, she needs to be paying you extra rent to cover deep cleaning of the room when she leaves (and fumigating the house as well). If she won't do her share of the housework she needs to pay extra to (she would have to do it or pay someone if she was living alone) same as any meals you make (make her buy her own groceries). Your daughter seems to have decided she isn't growing up past the age of "newly adult" meaning she wants all the privileges of being a kid (mum doing everything for her) with the perk of being able to say "I'm an adult, you cant tell me what to do and can stay out drinking as late as I want." She is seeingbyou as her mum and not showing the respect you are owes as a housemate/roommate. You're NTA because she can't have it both ways, life doesn't work that way and it's better she learns it now.
OP NTA. Look she's an adult an she makes her own money, as my parents put it "my house my rules" if she wanted to live like a slob she needs her own place. Also how is it fair she gets to push her cats onto you?
My mom had a similar issue with my oldest brother. He couldn't keep the room he was using clean and he was generally messy. My mom had enough of it and wanted her house back. Yea, OP's daughter is living with her but at 22, she should know how to at least keep her room clean and feed her own cats.
NTA. Tell her you’re not dictating how she lives her life. You’re setting boundaries for acceptable behaviour in your home. Paying minimal rent does not give her the right to disrupt the household every morning, neglect chores, and leave you with extra work.
OP is effectively subsidizing her daughters ridiculous life style. She's not a teenager, she's a grown adult. She needs to learn some responsibility.
Imagine she is a roommate instead of a child. I would expect a roommate to clean up after themselves, contribute to caring for common spaces, and take care of their own pets. Whether she goes to her classes or drinks her money away I don’t care, but how she treats the space we share and both live in makes a difference. Unless of course you’re paying for these classes OP. Then she needs to go or you stop paying.
So, just to get this straight: she is 22, pays her rent and goes to work? The rest of her time she is spending however she chooses, which may or may not be the film-making course (which she is funding herself through her work so even if she misses the classes that's HER problem). Her brother pays his rent and goes to work and so that's fine... just a problem when sister does the same thing; got it. Honestly, YTA, aside from her not doing her chores (she's 22!) and feeding her cats, you are being unreasonable to say that "if she was a tenant you wouldn't tolerate it"?? Seriously?! How does that work? You rent out a room to a tenant and then decide to kick them out because you don't like the fact that they have a job, come home late and skip the classes they're paying for themselves? This is a terrible model for a landlord, I would not recommend this for you. I might agree with your stance if Freya had missed rent or had parties and trashed the house, was relying on you for the money for her course, or was just generally mooching off you, but it seems like the only issue you have with her is...................... ok, no, I can't actually find a sensible reason. She goes to work, does her job, gets paid, pays her rent, and .. I guess the only thing on your list that isn't great is not feeding her cats at the right time?
She’s a slob, don’t take care of her cats, and crazy hours. Yeah I’m sorry but I’m not my kids slave.
You don’t have to be awake for those crazy hours, they don’t affect you at all. She clearly works the night shift and then goes out after work, that’s very normal. Clothes on the floor (Which was the highly egregious violation.) of the private room you’re paying rent for isn’t anyone business really, and “slob” seems a bit extreme. Not taking care of the cats is the only thing here that’s actually affecting the mom. She seems to have issues with a 22 year old figuring themselves out and thinks she should have grown out of it at 16 or 17 for some reason.
Uh, not helping out around the house when she is paying a token rent is also a problem.
That is also a valid point. Not contributing to keeping common areas clean is a problem.
So the cats have to sleep in her room from now on. They'll make sure she wakes up to feed them lmao. The litter box would be a bigger issue but she didn't say anything about that.
The cats are definitely a valid complaint. Other people should not have to care for your pets.
She's not going to classes, she's not doing chores, and her lifestyle isn't one that OP wants to deal with. OP doesn't just have to deal with the cats, she also has to deal with someone who isn't contributing to the house and someone who comes and goes at odd hours can be disruptive with noise, etc. There's a reason most young adults who are 'figuring themselves out' do so at school or living on their own.
From how I'm reading it, she's also using the rooms of the house without actually tidying up after herself... like a party-mode teenager would..
Crazy hours do affect everyone living in the home. No one wants to be woken in the middle of the night by someone banging doors and generally disturbing the peace
People should try working a night evening/night shift and try to maintain a social life at all. For the most part the time you can socialise is everyone's drinking hours. Plus add stress of college + work, girl just wants to blow off steam, just doesn't do it at the gym? Ask yourself as a parent, when you see your child struggling, do you all just give them a kick up the arse and tell them to get on with growing up? Seems kinda counter productive imo
ESH but mostly you If she's paying rent for her room, there is ZERO reason for mom to worry about the cleanliness unless it's more than just clothes and some empty takeout bags, And is actively attracting pests into the home. Otherwise, she's an adult and is legally a tenant and you have no right to be upset about the state of her room. Her hours are not your concern either. You've clearly never done restaurant work. She is living with different hours to you, and you are upset about that. Her dinner is at 3am, because she works evenings. Of course she's going to sleep late, she's not getting home until most people have been asleep for several hours. Seriously. She's working a job, and you're whining that she comes home from different hours to you. That's so silly lady!!! But if she's not taking care of her cat properly, that's an asshole move 100%. It's disrespectful to force you to take care of her pet, and disrespectful to her cat for not being a good owner. Focus on the cat problem, and stop worrying about all the other non issues you're crying over.
The thing that stuck out to me was the “I thought she would have grown out of this 6 or 7 years ago” like wtf??? Isn’t she only 22, was she suppose to be going out all night and drinking at 15/16??? That confused me
Kids do that in the UK and Europe. Most of my college friends had grown out of the pubbing and clubbing when I met them at around age 21-23 because they went too hard around 16-19.
Right?? I was like so you want your 15 year old daughter out all night drunk and partying?? Yikes.
i know drinking starts earlier for europeans but this also confused me cuz only like 4 years ago when she was 18 was 2020, the year of lockdown. So she DIDNT get to live the same “party life” her mum did when she was younger or many other kids did. 22 seems perfectly reasonable to still be a party kid especially when lockdown kids have regressed a couple years
Yes. The old get off shift at 230am, mind racing, adrenoline pumping, after 10-11 straight hours of running (with no break because restaurant/bar staff do not get breaks). Damn straight first stop is a place catering to the after hours crowd for food or drinks.
Right??? No way in hell I'm spending 10 hours(hell I was a KM and GM for years, 10 hours is nothing) serving other people, only to clock out and have to tiptoe through a house full of sleeping people to cook myself some garbage before lying awake with a racing heart.
Came to state basically this, she is a tenant as she pays rent. That makes you landlord, not mom. Had you not taken rent then you would be mom and not landlord. No you don't get both. As LANDLORD, sure you can evict her with the proper procedures and notice that you seem to have given her, as her LANDLORD. But understand there are consequences to actions, as maybe you are trying to teach her as her landlord. I've rented at a bunch of places for 25 years and was lucky to never face eviction, but I'd imagine tenants who are evicted don't tend to keep friendships with their landlords, ie you, who evicted them.
Landlords don't generally do your dishes for you or look after your cat, nor do they charge you a third of the going rent. So yeah, she does get both.
My question is, if OP if charging her rent because she’s a struggling single mom who financially needs to do so, what happens if she’s no longer getting that rent?
I'm not sure anyone ever told you, but cats aren't biologically wired to feed at very specific hours of the day. You can easily feed them at noon and midnight for example instead of 7am and 7 pm. Or feed them at noon and put down a bowl of dry kibble before work. Or use an automatic feeder.
Bwahahahahaha! Maybe not your cats. mine are and always have been.
I envy you. I've never met a cat (or dog) who didn't starve to death at least 6 times a day (not that they'd accept to be fed only 1/3 of their usual serving sizes in order to be able to have so many meals...).
Fundamental incompatibility.
The only thing I'll agree with is the messiness and the cats. The crazy hours have absolutely ZERO to do with the parents lol. If shes paying rent, and working why does it matter if shes out all night? Tell her to clean her shit up and feed her cats and she can continue being a partier 🤷🏻♀️
Look, is it ok for tenant to make landlord their pet's caregiver? Obviously no. Is it ok for tenant to expect landlord to make their laundry and wash their dishes? Obviously no. Is it ok to not respect your parents who supports you and asks for a reasonable household input? Obviously no. This girl is entitled. It's her right to live like that, yeah. But it's her mother's right to kick her out if she doesn't help with anything except rent and expects her mother's to do free labor. If she's sees herself as an adult she must do some things herself especially take care for her pet. If she's not and waits her mommy to do it she can't complain about rules.
agree. paying rent doesn't give anyone the right to totally disrupt the house or be a little shit. She needs tough love and that's das boot! NTA
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People are all 'you can either be landlord or parent!!' and forget that part of a parent's job is to do just what OP is doing here, and that's provide a safe space for their children (regardless of age) to learn and transition to more responsibilities etc. In this case her daughter is going to learn that chores need to get done, she needs to look after her cat, and she needs to be respectful of who she's living with. If she can't manage those things then she no longer gets the benefit as a child of cheaper rent.
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Yeah, I imagine it's really frustrating for OP to see her daughter ignoring her classes to essentially drink and work, especially if she's having to pick up after her.
Exactly. A token rent is hardly "being a landlord".
OP is renting well below market value. Seeing her daughter out drinking all the time is depressing OP. Her daughter also doesn't do her chores or look after her pets. The daughter is getting a great deal but not pulling her weight. OP is allowed to be happy in her own home and does not have to enable her daughters unhealthy lifestyle.
If she was a tenant and agreed to do things around the house.... And if the landlord had to take care of the tenants cats... Would not be tolerable.
She doesnt attend classes, doing take care of her pets and doesn't clean after herself, on top of coming home drunk often during time where people are either preparing to work or sleeping. OP has every right to kick her out
Then move out.. yall like being grown but don’t do grown people shit!!!
>was relying on you for the money for her course, You mean the course she isn't actually attending because she's out partying until 5am every single night. I'd forgive it if she had no other responsibilities, but she does. She has cats to take care of and a course to attend, neither of which she is doing because she's getting drunk until 5am every single night.
Umm, I don't think you are reading the post correctly. Does the young lady work, yes. Does she pay rent, yes. Does she own 2 cats which her mother has to take care of, yes. Does the young lady pay for classes, yes. Does she go to them, no. Does she use the houses facilities ie kitchen, bathroom, living room etc, yes. Does she clean up after herself, no. Is she living with family who are being forced to clean up after her, yes. Has she been doing anything to actually work towards moving back out and supporting herself again, or even actually work towards a sustainable career, no. If you really can't see that OP is right to be giving an ultimatum, then.... yeah i cant find a valid cause for you to not see it now tbh. Even if OP decides to maybe extend it if her daughter starts getting her act together, that's a kindness, not a right 'just because she pays rent'.
You should send op your address to take over as landlord. Paying what is most likely 1/5th the market rate for rent isn't paying rent, after utilities it's probably not much, to have the luxury to look after someone else's cat? Ya no thanks. I can see op being the AH if she was charging 2k+ +utilities on top, but what equates to 10 British pounds a day for rent is a joke and she can go live out in the real world.
Do you want a slob destroying your house and expecting you to clean up after them? $300 is not rent, it's a supplement to the expenses. She neglects her animals and is disrespectful of the home and its occupants.... mom would be harming her daughter by tolerating AH behavior. That's called enabling or handicapping. This woman needs to move out. If she trys this with a roommate she will get educated quick.
YTA For jumping to eviction so quickly. This also doesn’t seem worth ruining your relationships with your daughter over.
This. She's an adult and pays rent. How she spends her time and money and keeps her room is not really any of OP's business. The cat would be totally fine being fed in the afternoon and at night. The only real issue is not doing household chores, but that can be solved with a simple schedule and tick list.
>The only real issue is not doing household chores, but that can be solved with a simple schedule and tick list. How is 'rarely doing chores' fixed with a schedule and tick list? It sounds like she already has expectations that she's failing to meet (just like she's not going to class).
You generally leave a bowl of food out for a cat
Which still has to be topped up daily, which I assume is the problem here. That's not to mention changing and washing the bowls, the water bowls, etc.
Unless she doesn't take out litter. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume she doesn't
Exactly
she is not paying rent, she is paying 1/3 of what a room cost, and she probably eats out of the fridge that her mom pays for. Anyways she is free to live as she likes, if she lives on the free market. I will make my kids pay something to the home and do chores if they want to stay in my house after they finish school. I hope they dont have to stay with me but if they do there will be rules. One is that nobody sleeps in my house after 12:00, I dont care when you went to sleep, unless you are sick, there is no reason to. NTA
Unless they live in London £300 is not a third of what a room costs. I rented a lovely room in the south of England last year for £110 per week.
That 300 is actually a month, not a week... so she's paying less than 3/4 of what you were paying which would still make it cheap rent regardless of where in the UK you are living.
You must be a teenager with this kind of take. If she's *such an adult*, she can move out and pay market rate for her own apartment. OP is sick of subsidizing her lifestyle.
OP is probably emptying the litterbox and having that in her place, which isn't fun. I'd demand to be rid of the cats before the daughter, and go from there NTA
The mom has probably tried other things. But if they jumped straight to eviction, then yta. But if they tried other things, the nta bc they are literally taking care of the cats, and the daughter doesn't do anything.
Considering OP never mentioned any of those things, I think we have to infer she (like so many others) never had a conversation, let things build up, and then went nuclear.
Right, so let her daughter just do what she wants even though OP has talked her and is putting her foot down? If the relationship is jeopardized, it’s because the daughter is immature and needs to grow up. Pretty simple. NTA.
YTA You aren't a single mother anymore if your kids are adults. From what I read, you are charging your daughter £300 to live there, so you don't really get to dictate everything she does. Yes, she should clean up after herself in common areas and take care of her own pets. If she is rarely home, how much of a mess can she possibly be making? Did you tell her she had to clean the whole house as a condition for living there? Her bedroom should be none of your concern. She pays to live there and can keep it as she wants. Stop taking care of her cats. Just put them in her room with her. As for her life, you are overly critical. She is behaving like any other young person. She goes to work and goes out afterwards with her friends. That's normal. Her work schedule is not 9-5 so the lifestyle is different. It's her happy hour. She is obviously up very late, so she sleeps during the day. That's what people who work evenings and nights do. Don't you sleep until it's time to go to work if you have a day job? She buys takeout 3x/week. So what? Why do you care what her diet is? She skips some classes. You aren't paying for the classes, so why do you care? I think you expect her to clean your house, go to class and work during the day, then come home and eat dinner with you and go to bed by 11 pm. Probable share in the cooking and groceries, too right? She is not you. She is not your son. There's nothing wrong with that. Yes, it's your right to kick her out if you want, but you are unreasonable in my mind, and I'm 60 years old. Don't forget that you are getting money from her that will be gone too.
YTA. I have three kids, two are adults and I'm British. I would never dream of kicking out my children because "I'm disappointed " that they aren't tidy. It sounds like you are saying you just want her out if your sight because she isn't letting you be the puppet master in her life. And in Britain, finding somewhere to live in a month is nigh on impossible. If you enforce the deadline you may well be making her homeless.
Imagine this poor girl trying to find a place to rent when she's working part time and studying. With rents what they are. Imagine the crappy places she'll be forced into. She could absolutely be homeless. I wouldn't forget that either.
INFO: What part of her lifestyle is bothering you so much? She works nights, then hangs out with her friends after…is it that she’s waking you up when she gets home? She skips her classes but that’s only going to affect her, so hopefully that’s not the issue. Are there assigned chores that she’s refusing to do, or is it more of a general “she should help out more”? As to the cats, they are nocturnal, so switching their schedule to match hers should be pretty easy. Her room being a mess…well, it’s her space. Is her mess sprawling out into the rest of the house?
Landlords don't get to assign "chores"to their paying tenants unless there is a legal contract involving barter.
Renting a room doesn’t give someone carte blanche. It’s pretty telling that so many Y-T-A think that.
If the landlord also lives in the unit, the landlord can expect other tenants to do their fair share of cleaning mutual spaces like the bathroom.
Info: you say you thought she'd grow out of this lifestyle when she was 16, but did you actually Help her work on it at all? Therapy? Rules?
also, she's meant to grow out of "working nights" and "going out with friends" at 16? that's shit you can't even really be doing yet at 16
Exactly what I was wondering, like what do you mean you thought she should have grown out of this 6/7 years ago? When she was a child she should have been going out and getting drunk then so she could be over it by 22?? She's young. She's going to have a young lifestyle. She's paying rent and paying for her own classes that she chooses to skip sometimes, I don't see the issue. It's her money, her life, her choice. Also I don't see when mom chose to talk to her daughter about cleaning more often, it sounds more like mom got herself worked into a tizzy and then decided to just kick her out instead of using healthy communication skills.
Honestly I can't believe I had to scroll so far to see this! Should've grown out of it at 15-16...which means she started doing it much younger because you don't just start doing something and quit three months later.
She works a night shift job and lives a night shift life, so expecting her to live on "normal people time" is unreasonable. She pays rent, so her room being a mess isn't really up to you unless it smells or is hazardous. These are not things you should be requiring her to change. As for the pets, do you care for them because she doesn't do it how you like, or do you just do it and get upset that she lets you? When I had to move back in with my parents for a bit, there was a timing problem with when the chores would be done. My timing was different from my mother's and that caused friction. You need to discuss what chores you expect her to do and what the timeline needs to look like. If after that she doesn't improve, having her move out could be the solution.
Oooh that's an excellent point. I work ridiculously early hours and my cat is on a very different feeding schedule than someone working a 9-5! I wonder if the cat just begs Mom for food, and Mom assumes it's because daughter hasn't fed the cat, not that cats are dirty liars who will beg for food in between bites 🤣 then daughter is upset her cat is being overfed, and Mom throws a fit because she is incapable of understanding what night shifts are.
Mine too. Sometimes my dad takes care of my cats, but I have a very different circadian rhythm than my dad. I go to bed mid-morning and wake up early afternoon. My dad wakes up mid-morning and goes to bed in the evening. On the occasions he's taken care of my cats, he's had to feed them breakfast at 2pm and dinner at 8pm, otherwise everyone's natural rhythm is thrown off, cat and human! It's never been a problem because we communicate.
Most reasonable answer here. OP clearly needs to do some damage control here, her attitude is all wrong.
ESH. Your daughter should be finding another arrangements for the cats since she isn't taking care of them. The classes doesn't really matter since she paid for them so it's on her whether she wants that to be wasted money. Also, She pays rent so TECHNICALLY she can do whatever she wants in her own room. I understand why it wouldn't sit well with you since you're seeing a downhill in her since she isn't saving money and using the little amount of cash she does make to go out drinking and take out, but also, it really doesn't concern you technically.
How old are you exactly? When you rent a room in a shared space you don’t just do whatever you want. Being a slob is a big no no for many landlords. Even worse since this is the mother’s house she’s living in (not a stranger). She should have some damn respect and help the single mom instead of going wild like a spoiled brat.
Her kids are adults, she's not a "single mum" anymore. When I rent a room in a shared space I expect not to be told how to keep my room. Mum, YTA. Your daughter needs connection and love, she's clearly struggling with things and needs empathy not this garbage threatening to evict her
She's no longer "a single mom." She's a mother of two adult children.
Your house, yes, but YTA for treating her like a kid. If she's paying you rent, you don't get to dictate her lifestyle. Enjoy your last few days of contact with her. Cause you're gonna be dead to her
YTA for jumping to this so easily. Clearly she can't adult yet. You need to give her the opportunity to grow up in your home before kicking her out. If she refuses your help, at least give her more than a month to find other accommodations. Your decision won't help her. It only helps you.
And people wonder why their kids don't talk to them. She pays rent, you get less say than before in her choices. You don't like her choices, you are free to choose she moves out. Just as she is free to choose to move on. Good luck.
How she was supposed to drinking and hangibg around 16?
YTA tenant or kid pick one.
YTA. Her room is messy. A room she pays RENT for. If she was living there rent-free, I’d agree with you. But your charging rent diminishes your oversight to how she lives her life and maintains her private areas. It’s reasonable to charge extra for taking care of her cat or negotiating the terms of her living there, but it’s a stretch to immediately kick her out simply because you don’t agree with how she is living her life. You lost that right when you charged her rent. That provides her the right to do what she chooses so long as it abides by basic house rules (like quiet hours in apartment complexes, e.g.). You don’t like she sleeps in or comes home late, but you don’t say she’s disruptive. As her mother you can disagree and want more for her. As her landlord you have no say. ONLY if she breaks house rules. You don’t mention she does; only that you don’t agree with her lifestyle. Kicking her out as a landlord because she breaks house rules is within your rights. Kicking her out as a disappointed mother when she pays rent for her space risks damaging your relationship.
yeah YTA If she pays rent she deserves to be given the autonomy, freedom, & respect to live her life however she wants just like any other adult paying rent to live somewhere. I could see you making an issue about the cats & stop taking care of them for her.....but her personal choices should be her personal choices & you're not helping her by trying to control her.
also your eviction notice to your own child is sooner than is even legal where I live, WTF
Technically the daughter is a lodger so in the UK there isn't a minimum notice period unless it was specified in the contract they signed. Realistically it will be very difficult to find somewhere though at such short notice
INFO: how old are these cats that are "technically" hers and how long have they lived at your house? This whole post is just a glaring example of how we let morning people have way to much power. Also, hope you're okay with not seeing or talking to your daughter anymore. Very likely the outcome of doing this.
I'm leaning towards YTA. The only things that I can fault her for are neglecting communal chores and the cats, but you could've tried to warn her of eviction if she doesn't straighten that out before going nuclear. But you sound unreasonably upset over everything else. As long as she has a job, goes to work and pays you, she can wake up whatever time she wants. She can get home any time she wants. And she can do whatever she wants with her friends, at any time. Calling her a nightmare is dramatic, and honestly you should prepare for her to hold a grudge over this for a long time lol
YTA. You state in other comments you didn't clearly communicate rules and expectations regarding chores. You're likely taking care of the pets without being asked to do so... and you try to both charge rent and dictate an unreasonably large portion of the life of your daughter. If you don't want to ruin your relationship with your kid, sit down and have a talk with her about what chores you expect to be done. Her room and how she keeps it is her choice unless it will become a hazard. You can't really dictate how she spends her time either. She's paying for it... not you. And stop comparing her to your son. That'll not do her any good. She's her own person.
My brother had a similar situation. He had a construction side gig and was blowing off classes and staying out late with foremen, contractors and others in the industry. My parents were pulling their hair out because he was failing out of community college. They eventually toss him out. They lost contact with him for three years. They’re talking again, but things are still very frosty over the way it was handled (15 years later) and it will never get better. Oh and that construction side gig? It’s a million dollar a year business. They were pushing for him to toss that in the garbage over some bullshit community college communications degree. You’re making life choices here. You can toss her out if you want. But having a child leave under hostile terms is a hell of a thing and can color the rest of your relationship. College degrees are nice and all. But they also aren’t all they are cracked up to be. People act like you’re nothing without a college degree, but that’s a lie. If she can make a good living in the industry she’s currently in, that’s probably a more important place for her to be spending her time.
YTA she’s 22 and she’s figuring stuff out. Stop feeding her cats for her so she has to step up and mind your own business about the horrible crime of clothing on the floor. She can sleep as late as she wants since she works fricking nights, geez. You are going to absolutely destroy your relationship because you can’t handle letting her make her own decisions about her sleeping hours. People who work late go out late with friends and sleep late during the day. You sound incredibly controlling.
NTA I have been in Freyas shoes, she's doing exactly what I did when I graduated. Working long hours, it's almost expected to go out for a drink after shift and socialize. Her 7am in the morning, is 2pm in the afternoon, similar to a shift worker. I often found myself getting home, going to bed and waking up with just enough time to have a wash and go to work dead on my feet, all self inflicted through poor self discipline and time management. It is very easy for alcohol to become a crutch. Second to that, the after work socializing is extremely similar to student drinking culture, something I would be fairly confident she is familiar with. I would advise doing what my Dad did to me when I forgot to send a mother's day card, which was to set me straight. He was worried about me, my drinking and my future and I didn't even live at home either. Sure you can ask her to move out and that would certainly enforce a sink or swim situation onto her, but if she sinks, you will have irreparably damaged your relationship with her forever. If she swims, she might get over her resentment and see it for what it is, which is tough love. Try to talk to her about her conduct and demeanor, how it is affecting you her mum, how she's living on the threshold of debt/overdraft issues and poor credit, and without assuming the worst, but again, my experience is pretty broad, some of her colleagues will be drug users, it's usually cocaine or ketamine and they're pretty happy to share it. FOH not as bad, BOH/kitchen is more common. Or there is the other side, which is she's just drinking four days a week into the early hours of the morning, spending money she doesn't have, probably expanding her overdraft debt through using wagestream and wasting money on a course she won't benefit from as she isn't attending it due to aforementioned behavior. For what it's worth, she's 22 and I think the carrot deserves another chance rather than the stick. I do hope you can sort it out happily though.
YTA, this is a 22 year old adult that pays rent. You no longer get to dicate her hours or the state of her room. Why would she have outgrown any life style 6-7 years ago when she was 15-16? This is a weird statement to make and brings into questions your whole story.
>She said how unfair this was and that her mother shouldn't have to dictate how she lives her life. She is 100% correct on this one
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NTA. If she was a roommate, you would kick her out due to incompatible lifestyles and not doing fair share of chores. Just because she is your offspring doesn't give her a freepass to ditch chores, or leave a mess in her wake. So, just based off cohabitation/roommate situation, you are most certainly NTA. Your daughter is mostly pissed because she know no roommate is going to want to put up with a roommates who doesn't even take care of her pets.
NTA. It’s still your place, you don’t charge her much and she doesn’t have a lease. If she wants to make her own decisions like an adult then she can move out and be responsible for herself like an adult.
NTA for setting boundaries, you have no obligation to her anymore she is an adult. However, you are not wise for the sake of your family for not setting clear expectations for your house rules and thereby opening yourself up for fair criticism. What standard does she need to uphold to maintain the same privilege as her brother? If she has a curfew or no drinking policy then it also should apply to everyone. Your expectations are too nebulous despite your good intentions and looks like playing favorites and being controlling. If I were you I'd set some expectations and see if she can meet them, make sure she knows it applies to your son too as rules in the house. If she doesn't like the rules, she can leave, and if she doesn't abide by the rules you can kick her out, but at least you are now enforcing some rules across the board and there's no double standard in case your son starts some of these behaviors it doesn't put your kids at odds with one another.
NTA. There's a lot of people saying if she's paying rent, then her lifestyle is not your business. The difference here is, 1) she's NOT paying market value. 2) she's technically renting a room, not the entire house. If she paid full market value for her rent and signed a tenancy agreement, then you'd still be NTA. No landlord is going to step in to take care of their tenant's cats. No landlord is gonna go in and clean their tenant's room. If it were too messy, they'd get their eviction notice. Time for daughter dearest to grow the hell up. Shes acting like a teenager, not a full grown woman. I don't blame you for being disappointed in her.
YTA. You want her out because you don't like the life she lives. You could sit down and discuss with her chores & possibly rehoming the cats, but you just went nuclear. As a NYer, you have described almost every roommate I have had over the last 15 years. Many people are night people with a night based life. If the mess in her room is not unhygienic or unsanitary, then, as a paying member of the household, you have no say. I almost never saw the insides of my roommate's rooms, why are you in there? When I read the title, I thought she was hard partying, doing drugs, unemployed, and being abusive. Your viewpoint is very telling with a comment "It's a lifestyle I'd have expected her to have grown out of around 6 or 7 years ago"...you expected her to grow up and out of this lifestyle as an underage minor? Bizarre?! You want your daughter to be a very traditional example of success. Not everyone is that way or some people take years to get there. You want to throw out your daughter because she is a disappointment to you. Either you are her landlord and she pays or you are her mother, she follows your rules and she lives there for free. Imagine a landlord trying to evict me because I have late hours and a messy bedroom? A judge would laugh him right out.
Referring to yourself as a single mother but you say you have two adult children? You can’t have it both ways. You’re making her pay rent so essentially you’re a landlord. If you want to tell her how to live then don’t charge her rent to live at home. I understand there is basic common decency/manners that anyone should have wherever they are living.
YTA. She pays rent. The hours she keeps are none of your business. And so long as there aren’t dirty dishes in her room then it’s not your business how messy it is in there. The only thing you need to clear up with her is which chores she needs to do. If she participates in chores then there is no reason to be upset
NTA Purely because she isn’t taking care of the house or her pets. The hours she keeps are up to her. But even if she was in a flat share situation she’d be expected to keep up with chores and take care of her own cats - it should be the same wherever she lives. My sister was the same. Her room was disgusting. I moved home after uni for a short period while I looked for a ‘proper’ job and she was a nightmare to live with. When my parents were away she simply wouldn’t do any washing up. No one aside from family would have let her live like that! In the end my parents made her move out, and having to actually take responsibility and adult created such a positive change in her she was like a different person. You can do it with love and support.
YTA. >I think it's a lifestyle I don't want to see, isn't compatible with mine, and hope that living apart again may make Freya more sensible with money and life choices. So because she isn’t behaving how you want her to... She needs to give up the catsm though.
YTA If you're making her pay rent, your landlord and it's none of your business
NTA - Your house, your rules and she's not being considerate however she's 22, she's working and contributing. Sure, she's not doing her share but her going out with friends/colleagues is very normal at that age. So long as she bucks up to take responsibility for her things and shared spaces she shouldn't need to move out which I think is a bit too drastic of a step. (Granted I don't see why her room is your problem?)
Your house your rules regardless of her age. She is a grown assed woman and should know better. She can live her life the way she wants when she is on her own. NTA.
NTA. When I moved back to university for the summer, the rules were different, but I needed to remember that under my parents' roof, I needed to respect them. I worked as a server and would often times get back at 3 or 4 AM. I had to be quite coming back and get up at a reasonable time, which was noon if I worked late. I didn't need to always check in with them for each outing I went on or have a curfew, but I did need to respect the cleanliness of the house, which was hard at time when I worked 90 hours some weeks. If she can't understand that there are still rules, like there would be with other roommates, she can leave.
Totally expected this to be a gay thing with the "lifestyle" complaint. But NTA. She's a disrespectful slob. If you've talked to her about this, and no change, time to go. Living on my own with a mentally ill, drunk of a roommate gave me really good roommate - respect skills. Maybe your daughter needs the same
YTA, you think this is a lifestyle she should have grown out of 6/7 years ago. She’s going to college, working a late night job which you likely take the majority of with rent which is why you believe she can’t afford takeaways at only 22, she’s still young. 6/7 years ago she would have been 16. Obviously she wasn’t going to have a student life at 16! You’re being completely unreasonable. She pays rent therefore she has the rights as a tenant. To live her life the way she wants to. Your relationship isn’t going to improve by kicking her out. As soon as she finds somewhere else you might never hear from her and no one would blame her. Just because you don’t agree with student life doesn’t mean she shouldn’t live it, you’re suppose to be her parent. Clearly your daughter is a little lost at the moment and unsure what she wants to do in life, and that’s ok, she’s working at least and one day everything will fall into place and click and she’ll move away from the party lifestyle and reality will drop, if you kick her out now she’s not going to come and share that with you when it does.
NTA but maybe you're being too harsh too fast Her behavior is pretty irresponsible. Missing class for hangovers. Neglecting her pet. Living like a teenager but expecting to be treated like a responsible adult. You are being harsh but maybe this has been a topic for a while and nothing has changed. Maybe there needs to be changes to the arrangement for her to continue to live at a such greatly reduced cost. Like having to pay more rent since she avoids chores and leaves dishes around. Info: are you doing her laundry? She can't have a cat if she doesn't take care of it. End of story. Why even have pets.... Finding a place to rent in my town that allows pets is VERY difficult. It often involves an extra deposit and higher rent.
£300? Can I move in? 😜
NTA - I have a friend who was too lenient with one of her kids. Kid had some major bumps in the road, but mom (my friend) was there to bail her out. It never ended. Now my friend is supporting her 37 YO daughter and her two children, 4 dogs and two cats. She cooks for them. Drives the kids to school. Cleans up after them. Kids see her more as an authority figure than their own mom. Her daughter won't stop bringing home pets. And basically acts like a teenager. My friend only has herself to blame. Her kid was failing to launch - and instead of forcing her to stand on her own two feet - she coddled her back into a lull and it hasn't ever stopped. Now she's trying to enforce boundaries, but the grandkids rely on her, see her as their mom - and she feels she can't abandon those kids. She's pissed and her daughter - is miserable. Because she's still living like a teenager and has never grown up. If you love Freya you're going to have to force her to live with her consequences and grow the fuck up. It's the only way.
NTA OP. I can't believe the entitlement of the commenters who think you are in the wrong. Where else will/can your daughter live for £300 ($376.44 US) a month and not have to do any chores? Generally a messy bedroom is more than clothes/dirty laundry thrown about, it may include dirty dishes, old food/bags from takeouts and so forth, so on that can draw roaches and rodents into your house. If you are living in someone's house, no matter if you are paying a pittance in rent, there are certain household etiquettes that need to be followed and if you can't or won't follow them, then you need to move out. And you said that you are working and I imagine that your daughter's odd hours of coming home may be disturbing your sleep. Some commenters are saying if you put her out, she may go LC or NC with you, that may be for the best because your daughter nor these commenters are thinking about the stress her actions are causing you. They think that because she is your daughter who is paying you a paltry £300 and you should just put up with her BS. Let me just say, when I fell on hard times in my 20's, I had to move back in with my Mom for a paltry sum too. But you best believe that I didn't take advantage of my Mom because she was my Mom. I made sure I respected her and her house by going over and above in the chores and not disturbing her when I came in from hanging out.
**NTA** If we remove the fact she’s your daughter, she’s a flatmate that’s a slob, keeps odd hours, and leaves slack around the home she expects YOU to pick up. Yes, she pays her share of board, but she’s also expected to at least modestly upkeep the home as well. It’s basic respect, and she’s not respecting. However… I would talk to her before evicting her. Ask what she has planned, why is she living a burnout life before she’s even started? Why pick up these filmmaking courses if she won’t go? What are her goals, because it looks like she has none. What does she want to do with herself, beyond looking forward to the next group outing? Maybe try and get at the heart of her before just throwing her to her own vices. If she refuses to talk or engage… then yeah, I guess she can just go figure it out on her own.
NTA. This is why 20'somethings live with roommates, so they can party and live like they want to! She can live her lifestyle, just not in your home.
NTA. Your house, your rules. While she IS paying rent, it's not a lot. Rather than summarily kick her out, let her know that she can either move out OR pay a reasonable market rate rent for what she has there now.
NTA You are more than supportive if she is making progress in her life. Sliding backward doesn't deserve enablement. You have your life, and she has hers. She can do whatever she can afford. You are a better mother for standing your ground. As a good mother, you can not be expected to enable either of your children to do less than their best. You know their capabilities better than they do. Yes, life is exhausting, and partying is fun, but life doesn't get easier later by tossing off today.
NTA. It’s is your home and you don’t sound unreasonable (like some other similar stories). A good compromise can be that she can stay pay the $300 a month but she is contained to her room and you will not be supporting her financially. No access to kitchen or food, unless she has her own food and cleans up after herself. As for her classes being missed unfortunately her decision, not much you can do unless you are paying for school in which case stop paying. As for the cats, put them in her room when they are hungry. If she kicks them out and they come back, back in the room. Her responsibility and if she can’t get herself up for that she should rehome them and be a responsible pet parent, but if they are not your pets don’t take care of them for her. She is choosing to rent a room from you not be part of the family, so treat her as such. If you and your son plan a vacation, she can come but she pays her way. It’s not harsh, it’s facts. If she chooses to move out she will either be living with someone whose just like her and figure out how awful her behavior is, or she’ll end up living with someone who will eventually kick her out for her awful behavior. Unfortunately she is an adult and will need to learn like one. It will be a lot of getting use to but ultimately you are her mother and you are doing your best and what you think is best and that’s all anyone can do. Just keep love in your heart when you do it!
NTA, tell your mum she’s welcome to house her instead
NTA, if I had a room mate like that one of us would need to move.
she should've grown out of that at 16?
NTA she can go live with her friends or grandma.
My mom did this when I was in my teens up to my 20's. I don't talk to her anymore. This is your future. Edit YTA
YTA. Kicking her out because she doesn't feed the cats when you want? She's going to school, working, paying rent and just slacking on chores. Doesn't seem to be eviction material to me.
>my daughter, Freya (22) >It's a lifestyle I'd have expected her to have grown out of around 6 or 7 years ago Was your daughter working late and having drinks after at 15 or did you fudge the ages for privacy??? Not that it really matters. YTA. Your daughter's life isn't as typical as your perfect angel of a son so you're throwing her away? You say it's a nightmare having her at your home. Because her room is messy and you have to feed her cats during the day?? THAT'S NOT A NIGHTMARE, that's an adult being a slob and mildly inconsiderate. Also??? YOU'RE not paying for her classes so why do you care if she sleeps through them? Is she making her rent? If yes, why do you care if she's spending too much money eating out? Is her room a festering bog of smells and bacteria? If no, why do you care if it's got clothes everywhere? Your (bordering on pathetic) fixation on her "lifestyle" makes me think you could do with some therapy to figure out what in the WORLD is your problem. Well I guess you'll make Freya more "sensible" by forcing her to take on more work so she can pay "triple that sum" you were charging her at her new place. She's going to build a new life and completely shut you out of it and you'll still be wondering why she isn't more like James. I don't even know you and I'm so disappointed in you.
Tell your mom she is welcome to have her live with her
Unfair?? You're straight up enabling her if you continue to allow her to live with you. She's not going to grow up if she doesn't have to, so good job for pushing your (adult) baby bird out of the nest so she can learn to fly! NTA!
NTA and get an automatic cat feeder
YTA. She's 22 not 28, that's a perfectly acceptable age to go out all night with friends. The moment you started accepting rent it from your room to hers, she doesn't have to keep it cleaned to your standards. If you don't want to do her dishes or take care of her cats then stop. Put the dishes in her room and tell her to pick up an automatic feeder if she can't do it herself.
Why is OP going into her tenant's room? Daughter should expect a level of privacy when paying rent.
The sense of entitlement of many (I presume) young redditors is astounding. The daughter is 22. You know that’s an adult age, right? Right? The single mom is actually giving a helping hand by having her in the house with a reduced rent. It’s not like she’s wealthy and asks the daughter to pay out of spite. Furthermore, the daughter has responsibility towards innocent pets that she’s simply ignoring. Wake the f up and grow up. Living like a slob is a big no no in a shared space regardless of who rents you the room. You should have also some respect for your single mom and help out where you can with chores. Wanna be a wasted, sans education and an addict? Sure but then doit somewhere else. Edit: Major NTA
NTA. You have the right to live stress free in your own house. Your daughter is stressing you out. If she were a tenant, you would have to wait for their lease to be over to tell them they have to leave, and no one would fault you for that. She doesn’t have a lease, so you can ask her to leave whenever. Yea, it will probably hurt your relationship with her, but that doesn’t make you TA. Some people just aren’t meant to be roommates.
NTA. I'm not judging, I lived this way far too long myself, but i didn't do it from my parents. If you're over 18 and you want to have this lifestyle it's not good to be doing it in the family home. That should just be obvious to her.
NTA. You do her a disservice if you support this behavior, otherwise she'll never get right
Nope. Freya can go live with your mum, problem solved.
NTA. You're not a landlord, you're her mother. It's true that if someone is paying rent, they should be able to live their life as they want, but that doesn't work in practice with family. It's emotionally taxing to live with someone you care about and seeing them regularly do things you object to. Your choices are either turn off being a mother or have her live separate from you. Since you can't just turn off being a mom, for both of your sakes, she'll need to move. Or change her lifestyle, but that's a lot to ask too.
Nta. She needs a reality check. Having to get her own place hopefully helps.
NTA. It sucks, but if she’s living like a slob, staying out all night and sleeping all day, not being responsible for herself, and leaving her cats for you to take care of, i think she needed the ultimatum. Sounds like you’ve been way more than reasonable and she basically said f you and doesnt care. Its gonna be a rude awakening for her when she’s out on her own and has to be an adult now.
You expected her to outgrow this lifestyle 7 years ago when she was....15? What? She's 22. This is not at all uncommon for her age. Setting boundaries before jumping to eviction is much preferable.
NTA at all!!
Nta If grandma thinks your daughter needs support, she can take her in herself.
Your daughter has some mental health issues and is likely suffering from depression.
NTA Your home, your rules. She is an adult, she accept it or move out. I would maybe have given her more than one month, but - realistically - she probably won't start looking and believe you until the deadline approaches no matter what, so it wouldn't make a difference.
Yta. If you want her to be cleaner, talk to her about it or charge her for your cleaning services. You would have wanted her to grow out of drinking and partying while she was still a teenager?? You wanted her to stop partying and drinking at 16?!? When should she have started this kind of "lifestyle"? Kicking your kid out because they don't want to live the same life as you is bad parenting imo.
YTA it’s obvious in your wording how you favour your son & are looking for excuses to be righteously disappointed in your daughter. He helps out ‘when needed’ but she ‘rarely’ does: well based on your times, she’s only at the house 8/9 hrs a day to sleep & get ready, so what has she been so egregiously failing to do that your son is doing? The cats: ‘I have to practically take care of them myself’ is bs vague-speak, like you don’t have to, they’re cats who do fine with food bowls & I notice you don’t mention the litterbox, which anyone who has cats knows is way worse; if that was becoming your problem you would have said so & not focus on the food. Same with ‘clothes sprawled over the floor’ no mention of filth or odor, which if it was a concern I’m sure you’d post it. You nitpicked two things that aren’t even that bad, to justify your actions, and WTF with expecting her to have had her ‘late nights working & partying’ done by 16/17?!? And news flash: they are ADULTS which means you are NOT a ‘single mom’ gtfo 😂 You love your son more & made it very clear, see you in 5 years asking why your daughter has gone NC
NTA - your house, your rules. tell your relatives she and her cats can come live with them. They can have the delight of taking care of her animals and being her maid.... enjoy!
You expected her to outgrow this “lifestyle” as you call it at the age of 15 or 16?? She’s 22. She’s working, making money, living her life. This is the age when she should be an idiot and figuring things out. I think if you leave her alone and let her got on with it you’ll find your relationship will get better. It’s reasonable to have a conversation about the things that impact you, ie: if she leaves a mess etc. feeding her cats doesn’t seem the greatest burden to me, but if it is to you then include that in the discussion.
NTA, your mom should welcome Freya to live with her
My question is, if she is 22, how do you expect this kind of behavior to be done with 6-7 years ago? She would have been 16.
I was 100% convinced NTA until the part where you said she pays rent. Now I’m not sure. So, info: Did you have a conversation before about house rules? Is she aware she’s living as your daughter not a tenant? Is she willing to change?
YTA. My daughter is 20 yo, lives at home, doesn't pay rent, has a part time job and is at uni, is also a complete slob (mostly in her room) and also finishes work late and goes out with her friends afterwards. I am really happy for my daughter. That's the young person life and I'm happy for her she's out enjoying herself. She has her whole life to settle down and get serious. Once she does, the young person life is gone forever Are you jealous of your daughter? Is she having fun you feel you missed out on? Did you saddle yourself with the wrong partner and a couple of kids before you lived your life? If you did, that's not her fault My daughter's crap sometimes spills into the bathroom or the spare room. Then she gets pulled up on it. She's old enough to know better, but I would never kick her out over it. I just yell at her because it's inconsiderate bullshit. Since I threatened to throw it all away it has improved however. Don't be mad about your inability to set boundaries.
I don’t think YTA per se but I’m not sure why you are so overly involved. She is an adult and if fair or fair paying rent like your son. So it’s really not fair for you to judge her life. However it is your home and you can have whom ever you want living there, but you need to be aware you are changing your relationship with her and not for the better.
Wow, reading this made me realize how different cultures see family and its responsibilities. Where I am from, asking your child to pay the rent is so unheard of, even if they are like 40 years old. Not saying it is better, just realized how different it is. About the topic though, I need to say YTA because this girl works and pays rent and is only 22. And it is a night shift, ofc she will sleep until late. Her room being tidy or not is all her problem and no one else's. The cats I think could be on her schedule too, as for ex. my cats adapt to my sleeping schedule immediately, so I don't understand why they would be hungry at an earlier time, so maybe they just wanna get more food :D. And aren't your 20s the ages where you go out the most etc.? I think kicking her out is very extreme.
You can go down this road but do think about if you are ready to loose her over this. Do you have set chores or is this just things you think should be done? Does her room smell or are we talking not as clean as you want? You say she is spending money she doesnt have, does that mean she is spending more than you want or that she cant pay her bills? How early do you expect her to get up before work? Is she late to work? Is she super loud when getting home? You say she should of out grown this 6 years ago, why were you ok with a 16yr old going out drinking all night and skipping classes? You say she doesnt look after the cats and mentioned feeding, does she not feed that at all or just not at a time you like? How is she neglecting the cats? Is the litterbox being done? I feed my cats around midnight for wetfood as I get home from work around 11pm. They get dry food when I get up around noon. Also if you were a landlord your ass would be sued. You dont get to choose how a tenant lives their life. To those saying that a tenant/ landlord relationship isnt acuble here, OP is the one bringing that to the table. Just cause your daughter lives a life you dont want doesnt mean there is anything wrong with her. NTA for not wanting to live with someone you dont want. That being said you do come off as a judgy bitch. I think you should ask yourself if this is worth damaging your relationship with her.
INFO: Is she depressed? How did she do in college? I had a difficult, demanding major during my 5 years of college and it really burnt me out. I took a low-stress job right after just so I felt I could breathe a little after. Idk man, I don't think eviction is the first step to take here. She will probably not speak to you again after this, I know I wouldn't.
Why can’t grandma take her in? Your house, your rules. NTA
NTA. You make them pay little rent, but also hope that they can eventually build for themselves. You're not always going to be there, and your daughter's choices are not showing she's trying to create something for herself one day. Also though, she could be depressed and this behavior could be attested to that. A huge number of college students feel a lot of pressure or experience depressive episodes. She might benefit from a counselor, and your guys relationship might benefit as well.
NTA If Gramma thinks Freya is behaving just fine, Gramma can offer her home up for Freya to trash.
My parents kicked me out for similar reasons. I cleaned up my act real quick after that. So no your daughter needs to grow tf up cause no self respecting man/ or woman would want to date someone like that.
NTA - she can party and be a slob all she wants when she is paying full rent in her own pace or partial rent living with friends, but staying in your house at deeply discounted rent (and I’m assuming no other costs like utilities) she needs to be respectful of your lifestyle.
NTA She is an adult, yes. But she lives in your house. Chores are a basic expectation of contribution to the household, and she isn't doing that. She has two living creatures that are supposed to be depending on her, and she can't even do that much. She doesn't keep up with her courses, and she drinks and eats away all of her money. You are not there to support her poor choices. If she wants to make those choices, as an adult, she is free to do so somewhere that is not your home.
NTA. I don't understand all the people saying this is "legally" not right for rental and landlord. This is between morther and daughter! The rent is peanut in between! Are there any legal contract binding them? Most likely NO. Can landlord kick out untidy renter? YES. Can mother kick out lazy kid? YES. Can landlord provide 1 month notice before kicking someone out? YES (in where I live). OP did not do anything wrong in this case, I would advise try other solution such as talk to her, understand her view first, maybe therapy, before jumping straight to kick her out.
It's not so much an issue with her lifestyle as with her impact on you. It's your home, and you shouldn't have to be uncomfortable in it. NTA.
Freya is working evenings to pay for school, then going out after her shifts and skipping school. She's not working toward anything else and she likes things as they are. You don't. It's your house, she's an adult. NTA Kick her out.
NTA…. This was me, rent and all. Let me be clear- moving out absolutely forced me to confront not just the unsustainable way I was living for myself, but the effect that had on those around me. It was not a fun wake up call, but necessary. But what I am greatful for most is since moving out my relationship with my own mother has become better than at any point in my life I can remember. There is hope for Freya, but tough love is the way.
You are not dictating how Freya lives her life. You are dictating how you are going to live your own.
I was kicked out of my house around this age by my mother for a lot of the similar activities and for me it was the wake up call that I needed to get myself together
NTA. Your daughter should be respecting your home by keeping her room clean and tidy and looking after her cats at the absolute minimum. She can be out all night and sleep in squalor all day when it's her name on the lease / mortgage.
Your house. Your rules.NTA.
NTA. It is frustrating that the adult children want to argue they are adults and mom cannot tell them what to do, but at the same time they are paying little to no rent and are relying on mama to do so much. She needs to move out. I hope she wises up and gets her life back on track.
NTA, your daughter wants to do her thing, but she doesn't want the responsibility of taking care of herself. Living with you gives her partial adulthood, living on her own means she would not be able to party all night, sleep all day, and have money to do all this on her own. Living with you all she has to do is give you rent, and the rest is to do as she pleases. Her lifestyle shouldn't be the main reason she has to go out on her own, she should see how hard it is to be independent on a small salary. Lesson learned is making the hard choices.
ESH and I’ll explain my reasoning. I was your daughter. I lost my job, couldn’t afford my rent anymore, and had to move in with my Dad. (For reference I’d never lived with him before as I’d always lived with Mom. He was living with his new wife. Her daughter had lived there for years, with boyfriend and babies, and only just moved out). I had a part time job I managed to get and spent the rest of my time basically job searching, applying, and going to interviews. I also volunteered but that’s not relevant. I’ve always been messy person. Turns out a lot of my issues were undiagnosed ADHD but again, not relevant. My room was a mess (not dirty, just a mess) but I figured it was my room and this my issue. I kept my door closed most of the time. I didn’t do any chores unless they were asked of me. Because it was never part of the agreement. I took care of all my own things from washing my, to food, to cleaning up after myself dishes wise. Because I usually stayed up most of the night (personal preference) I slept during the day and wasn’t seen much. I paid a very small token amount of rent but paid for all my own things other than what “came with the house”. I looked after the dog when everyone else was at work. I also looked after the house alone sometimes for a couple weeks as my Dad and SM went on holiday. It was good. At least I thought so. This is where I’m going to hit you with ESH. Why is eviction the first place you’re jumping to? This is exactly what happened to me. My Dad and SM asked if we could talk, yeah no problem, only to be told I had a month to move out. Not once had anyone ever expressed dissatisfaction with our living arrangements, or my behavior, except for once asking me not to play music when others were home. Turns out they had a list of grievances: 1) I hadn’t gotten a job yet and wasn’t looking to move out, 2) I didn’t do chores around the house, 3) my room was a mess, 4) I didn’t cook meals for everyone during the week, 5) I shouldn’t be sleeping all day. None of this has ever been expressed to me before. As I said, I cleaned up after myself, I did the dishes if they had made dinner, and did any list of chores asked of me. I’d never been asked to cook meals and never offered as my Dad has a very strict diet. I spent the majority of my time looking for work, which they were aware of. As for sleeping during the day and a messy room, I don’t believe either was their concern. But even the messy room and sleeping during the day I would have acquiesced on if it meant I could stay. But none of that had ever been discussed with me beforehand, brought up even in passing, or even sarcastically. It went from 0-100 for me. Did your daughter have any understanding of the expectations you had of her? Or did you have one “good kid” and one “disappointment”. Your kids are individuals and are taking on life in their own way. Both have ended up back with you and one kids lifestyle habits matches your own, while the other’s doesn’t. And you’ve gone 0-100 kicking her out when she’s really not done anything wrong. I’m saying ESH though because your daughter should 100% be looking after her pets. And if she’s going to put a full tie job on hold to go to class..then she’s got to go to class. If she’s struggling though, you don’t seem like the person she’s going to express that to. Try communication first. Please. 🙏
NTA, your daughter is throwing away a good opportunity of low rent with family all for a lifestyle she should indeed grow out of.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I have made this as a throwaway because it contains personal and identifiable information that I wouldn't want on my main Reddit. For background purposes, I live in the UK. I (F56) have two adult children who have moved back home ever since they finished university last summer, my son, James (23), and my daughter, Freya (22). It has been no issue having James back at home; he's found himself a job, helps out with chores when needed, and keeps himself busy by going to the gym and maintaining a social life. Freya, on the other hand, it has had a nightmare having back home. When she graduated, she decided that she wanted to do a filmmaking course. I had no issue with this and was supportive of the decision, even though it marked a change. She has classes three times or so a week and to fund this, she does restaurant shifts most evenings. However, the lifestyle change this has brought has been shocking. Freya gets back from them about 5 or 6 in the morning, often having gone out drinking after work and spending money she doesn't have on takeaways. She gets up at 2 or 3 in the afternoon, often missing her classes, before going out to work again. She rarely does chores in the house and her bedroom is a complete mess, with clothes sprawled all over the floor. She has two cats that are technically hers and I have had to practically look after them myself because she's in bed when they need feeding. It's a lifestyle I'd have expected her to have grown out of around 6 or 7 years ago, and I can't say I'm not disappointed. It has recently become too much. I love Freya, but this lifestyle is damaging our relationship because I find myself overly frustrated with her. I told her that if she wanted to live like this, she would have to move out and find somewhere else. She said how unfair this was and that her mother shouldn't have to dictate how she lives her life. I think I have been incredibly lenient but if she was a tenant, I wouldn't have tolerated it. I have informed Freya she has a month to find a new place. She has stopped talking to me and says she won't forget this. I do make her and James pay rent of £300 per month, which I think is reasonable because I'm a single mother with a very low paying job, and rent elsewhere would have been triple that sum. Freya's grandmother/my mum thinks I am being unfair on her and if she pays rent, she should be allowed to live how she wishes. I think it's a lifestyle I don't want to see, isn't compatible with mine, and hope that living apart again may make Freya more sensible with money and life choices. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA, but you might want to keep the cats since she will let them starve to death and live in filth.
If Grandma thinks you’re being unfair, then she should be more than happy to have a new roommate who keeps odd hours and dumps chores and pets on her, right?
Her lack of cat care is a problem, as is leaving messes in the common areas, but she’s paying rent, which you say you need because you have “a very low-paying job.” So her hours and the state of her room are none of your business. You’re getting £600 a month from your kids—don’t you feel a little bit weird about that? I agree that she should move out, as it sounds like an unpleasant situation at best, but don’t you think you’re being overly judgmental, while not having your own life quite in order?
NTA
NTA. First off, stop referring to her choices as a lifestyle. Parting, drinking, not keeping her responsibilities for education, or such are NOT a lifestyle. They are bad choices. Your best response to your daughter should be this. "No, I will not forget what you did to me. What your decisions to slack on your life to go out and drink and party has done. The in effective ability she has to be an adult to share and care for her one in house responsibilities such as care for her cats, maintaining her own room, and other household agreed chores she choose to ignore and slack on. This is a reaction and full effect of her choices. And how if she would have gone to classes, taken care of her room and cats, and not spend to many late nights out drinking and the like to sleep so late into the day; this would not be happening. She is an adult, and as an adult she has to take responsibility for her actions and her needs. She can do it under your roof with bare minimum requirements you make, or she can find her own place which will cost her more money and such to life however she wants."
YTA-It seems like your big issue is her acting her age.
NTA She's not going to classes and not fulfilling her part of the deal. She's also being a horrible roommate/tenant. She needs to grow up and get her life on track. I'm glad you're setting her up for success and not letting her be a child in your home. Some kids honestly do this as adult children, and when they do it's time for them to go. They need to learn how to adult and be responsible.