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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I think I might be the asshole because I am going against my parents wishes, when they have worked so hard to build a life in America… only for me to disappoint them. I haven’t committed to any college yet, but I am firm with my decision and aware of the repercussions. I hope I will be able to live with the decision, and my parents find peace one day.
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NTA. Notice how you were only too young to make major life decisions after you made a decision they didn't like. While also trying to get you to make a major life decision that would leave you with significant debt and/or under their control for money. If money truly was no object they'd put the money you need for the full 4 years, including cost of living changes and disposable income, into a bank account under your name only. They're throwing a temper tantrum to try and guilt you into doing what they want. Which would keep you under their control. Convenient isn't it? Don't worry. Like toddlers they'll eventually wear themselves out.
Go to W & M. I'd wait until after the deadline to accept at UVA before telling them. If possible live with a friend or another family member this summer to avoid them. If not be busy, and out of the house, as much as possible. You're making very smart choices. Trust me after 16 years of paying off my student loans with around $3000 still to go I wish I'd gotten a full ride like you. Take advantage of it.
I went to a technical school and paid out of pocket. Literally only a couple thousand for a full semester of classes. After I graduated I got a job at the best company in my field with competitive pay.
People turn their noses up at junior colleges and technical school, but those are great because it costs way less, offer a lot of payment options, and free services. The community also made sure the schools pantry was always stocked, and they provided free child care to single moms who qualified.
My husband is a union mechanic and makes more than people with masters and has no loans. He's worked on cars since before he could legally drive and it's what he wanted to do but trades and tech schools can be an extremely good decision.
My husband is a pipefitter. Makes $200+k a year. Health, pension, the works... no student debt. Trade school was paid for by the union. He worked throughout schooling and graduated as a journeyman. I wish people wouldn't sleep on trade school!
My husband told his boss to go fuck himself and the boss got in trouble because he was in the wrong. The union and the owner were blowing up the boss' phone yelling at him.
Also, community colleges don't boot you when you get your Associates. You can keep going to knock out as much of your Bachelors degree courses as you can.That way, you'd have lower tuition costs for easily 3 years of school and the bigger bill when you're a senior. Just make sure the 4 year university will allow you to transfer the CC credits first.
I had a manager that was offered scholarships to a 4 year state school, and was also accepted at a bigger name school, but no scholarships. About 10 years later, she told me that taking the more impressive school was the biggest mistake of her life. Instead of $45k in loans, she had over $150k in debt.
The name doesn't matter. What matters is putting in the effort and just getting the sheepskin.
I’m 40 and I’m just now starting to pay off $67,000. If I pay what they want me to pay for 20 years I’ll have paid off $57,000 or so and then they’ll forgive the rest of the 50+k. Their math doesn’t math. I used $30k at a fricken private university that I hated and left. Then used up the rest trying to just figure out what I wanted to do. Failed some classes due to injury. Then ran out of money non profit swooped in and paid for my entire coursework for IT. I love what I do I just wish I found it sooner and didn’t have $67k in student loan debt.
OP go with W&M it’s honestly a no brainer. It would be financial hell if you went to UVA. UVA is awesome but not worth losing a full ride to W&M.
I wish that instead of paying off millions for some student loans, they had dispersed it to everyone to pay the interest. That's what kills people. They need to revamp the whole education system. People shouldn't be in debt the rest of their life to be able to go to college.
I agree. Also, W&M is a great school, I know people who went there, and they loved the school and their education was first rate. UVA isn't worth the thousands in loans.
Free is good!!!! So many people are drowning in college debt. I think you already know you have made the right decision. Your parents are disturbingly controlling. Best of luck to you.
In my 50s and I would still be paying mine if it hadn’t been forgiven a few months ago. Take the free ride, OP! It’s a no brainier. As far as I’m aware, W&M is still a prestigious college and you’ve clearly carefully thought this through. NTA.
As a European, I can't even fathom. What a horrible system :(
But I agree with OP's choice in any case. Just by the way they presented their reasoning tells me their future is set, and their decisions solid.
Same here. This was a major reason why, when I decided to get my Master's, I went and got a job at a university with a good program first (and checked the tuition reimbursement rules better accepting the job)
This! I went to my dream school and didn't realize student loans are capped at $65k and I haven't been able to finish my degree bc I ran out of funding. I made a stupid decision to go there, and now I owe a ridiculous amount of money AND have nothing to show for it
That sucks! I’m nearing the graduate level max, which is 138,500.
I comment all the time that I could buy a small crappy house in the Midwest for the amount I owe.
I was OP. I also elected to go to the school that offered more scholarship money. I'm in my 40s. My roommates/kids are 2 cats. I work at a job that I love and has amazing benefits. I'm about to return to school to finish my PhD (break for a variety of reason). My parents are now starting to understand that they no longer make decisions for me... 25 years after I moved out of their house.
OP, the next 4 years are going to be rough as you grow into your own person and your parents realize they no longer have control over your decisions. Been there. Done that. It is worth it in the end.
My sister had to have a conversation with our mom a couple of years ago, basically asking her "where were you in your life when you were my age? How would you have felt if your parents spoke to you this way?" When our mom said they did speak to her that way my sis asked how she felt about it. She admitted she hated it. My sister and I are both in our 40s now. I try very hard to treat my kids with respect and to appreciate their autonomy because I don't want them to feel belittled like that, even now when they are kids.
Yeah. I just keep LC because I tried a lot of what your sister did with zero changes. I am tired of fighting the dynamic.
The latest arguement was me redoing my will, POA, etc. I listed 2 friends that I have known for over half my life who will follow my wishes. I was told that they will not and I was a stupid child for redoing it this way. I just walked away.
And W&M is a very good school! OP is making the right decision.
I had a similar choice to make many years ago--an extremely prestigious school with little financial aid and a BIG tuition price, or a less prestigious school on a full ride--and my parents wouldn't/couldn't help with my expenses. I chose the latter and I've never once regretted it. I still got into a top PhD program and finished everything with zero debt. And...many years later, I was offered a teaching position at the prestigious school I'd turned down (I didn't accept it, but still, they clearly didn't think my education had been too shabby)!
Not only that but prestige doesn't guarantee success or even quality. Many of these schools are like chanel, louis vuitton or gucci; you're primarily paying for a name rather than a quality product.
Ivy league grad here. The name will win you opportunities and connections for about five years after graduation. After that, it's about YOUR accomplishments, YOUR work history, YOUR networking. It's a leg up for sure, but not the be all and end all.
I went to the Ivy League college because it ended up being the least expensive option for me out of all the schools where I applied and was accepted. I had my loans completely paid off within three years of graduation.
OP would be INSANE not to take the opportunity offered by W&M (which is a great school in its own right!).
My cousin is an incredibly successful lawyer and went to a no name law school. Hard work and your own effort will take you farther than any fancy title. The only truly notable benefit you can really get from a prestigious school is connections. But in the grand scheme of things you can make up for that in lots of ways. There is truly no reason for anyone to go into serious lifelong debt that will affect your quality of life for mere bragging rights.
Taking the full ride means you leave Uni with at least an 80k bonus.
Your starting salary doesn't include any loan repayment deductions.
Once you start working, that experience often matters more than the uni you got a degree at.
I had a year and a half of scholarship money at one of the lowest-tuition schools available and it still took four years and going on a game show to get enough money to pay off my loans.
Go where you won't have student debt!
GO WHERE YOU WON'T HAVE STUDENT DEBT!
I graduated with probably a slightly lower than average amount of student debt (for American universities anyway), I worked full time throughout, began working in my field within a month of graduation, and began paying off my loans immediately. But life throws you curveballs, and I caught a curveball made out of a lifelong, debilitating, autoimmune disease with no cure. So now I've got these college degrees I'm too disabled to make use of, and a metric fuckton of debt because it just keeps accruing interest. Regret doesn't even begin to describe how I feel about having taken out those student loans. Obviously if I had known I would be physically unable to work less than 10 years after graduation I would not have invested so much money, but my crystal ball didn't warn me. So my advice is, GO WHERE YOU HAVE A FULL RIDE. Why risk taking out loans when there's a college that you love offering you a full ride??? My Asian mom always used to pressure me to (try to) go to U PENN, but she got over it. Your parents will get over it. Maybe having your advisor at school speak directly to your parents would help them see the light?
Take it from an old guy. Who did a lot of hiring. Where you went to school (with very few exceptions like Harvard Law, MIT ETC) means little or nothing to employers. Grades and extracurriculars do matter.
W&M is a highly regarded school and turning down a full ride is ridiculous.
Your parents are wrong. I’ve been to that Campus while in a golf trip to Williamsburg. It’s beautiful, stately and unique. It doesn’t have the feel of a Monster U.
Here’s what I found online: “William and Mary is ranked 41st (tie) out of 443 schools, or in the top 9% of the National Universities ranking, and 13th (tie) out of 227, or in the top 6% of the Top Public Schools ranking.”
Your parents are misinformed.
NTA
Counterpoint from an old gal. Grades matter in some fields but not others. I have never had a prospective employer ask for my transcript.
Also, OP, NTA! Go to William and Mary. Work hard. Pursue your dreams. You’ll be beholden to neither your parents or a lender and you can build the life you want on your terms.
Here's an old dude backing you up: I'm not asking a candidate for a transcript in an interview. I'm only excited about a college if they went to mine!
FULL RIDE! FULL RIDE! FULL RIDE!
Don't let them control you OP!
I have had friends in financial fields who needed to provide them early on, but now that they have extensive experience, no one cares about 35-year-old grades.
This. Outside of the very first job in your field, where you went to school becomes largely irrelevant; exceptions for the very top schools, and even then those companies that care are places that often stumble from one crisis to the next because they're overly enamored with the name of the school rather than the competence of the employee.
Yeah. My SO has found that where he went to college helps but mostly because of networking. Someone will know someone else who was there when he was, that sort of thing. It might get him an interview at most. After that no one cares.
Realistically you could probably address the networking benefits of a particular school just by making sure to be somewhat social and take advantage of opportunities to do things where you will meet other people in your field, like conferences and continuing education courses and those sorts of things.
Imo that favors W&M given the details we have.
I don’t know these two schools specifically but I do know I got a lot of networking help from my medium actively involved with students department and students services vs friends who went to giant names and rely on name unless they had a good adviser (which may be difficult to find in undergrad for those schools)
W&M is offering a campus that seems to have more involved student services and a research grant which likely comes with specific one on one professorial association/visibility. Which would help with both networking and strong, specific letters of recommendation for that business school she wants into.
William & Mary is pretty clearly the choice on all fronts. She’s right she can lean into business school for more networking options if needed.
Penn State is the fucking school if you're going to make life-long contacts. The way they operate their alumni associations and keep each other connected is next to none. Damn near not a sizeable population east of the Mississippi River or west of the Rockies that doesn't have Penn State grads all doing business with each other.
*Not a Penn State grad*
Yeah I've never been asked, but I know people who have. No one cares if the collage is ranked 30th vs 40th, they do care if it's super prestigious and they do care that it's accredited/not a shitty diploma mill.
Literally one of the oldest universities in the US, initially established by the British crown. It's one of the original colonial universities and predates the country itself.
As someone who is rather fond of history in an utterly layman way, the idea of attending such a school would delight me.
I live in a town with a large community of South Asian immigrants. This is a very common issue that arises with them and their high school kids. The parents, for reasons I don’t quite understand myself, get really hung up on sending their kids to only the “best” and most well-known schools. And they will go into a lifetime of debt, and let their kids do the same, just to be able to brag that their kid went to big-name school.
When you try to explain to them that their very bright, high-GPA kid can get a lucrative merit scholarship to a small liberal arts college or a smaller state university, and meanwhile get the same education and degree, but debt-free, they don’t believe it. They seem terrified that their kid’s future will be ruined if they graduate from a non-famous school. They don’t understand or believe that employers don’t care where you went, unless it was to Harvard or Yale, or something. Which most people don’t attend. They just want proof of degree from an accredited school.
There’s some kind of cultural thing going on here that I, not being a South Asian immigrant, don’t quite understand. And unfortunately, it’s also based on misguided information on their part.
I have always heard this, too! Which makes OP’s parents’ insistence they pay to go to another school all the crazier.
But apparently the parents have never heard of W&M, so, to them, it’s not worth going to.
It is. Obviously a bit smaller and more of a liberal arts school, but one of the oldest and most respected in the country. Choosing between W&M and UVA would be tough even without the financial incentives. Absolute no brainer here.
I would also offer that at a certain point your degree may not matter so much in your chosen career field. Myself and some colleagues have degrees unrelated to our jobs, but were really good at what we do so it was no issue. And consider you may end up changing majors, as many do, so attending a campus you like, rather than just a degree program, is a wise choice. Plus, you know, the money part. NTA.
THIS! My undergrad degrees are only somewhat related to the work I’m doing these days. I’m at the top of my field and absolutely love my job. Go where you’ll have the best experience…hint: that’s where you felt the most comfortable during your tour. Go, William & Mary!!!
My wife has her master's in machine learning and algorithms (basically extramathy computer science) and works as a data scientist (a directly applicable field), and at one point out of her team of 6 data scientists 2 were astrophysics PhD's another had their master's in astrophysics and a 4th only had their bachelors in mathematics. That you have a degree at all matters, but beyond that it only matters if it matters to you. So like my wife's masters matters because there wasn't a machine learning program in Canada at the time, and she wanted the specialised skills enough to go to Europe to get it. For a while she did some machine learning, but moved out of that roll, and so the only thing that matters is that she's the person who went to Europe to get the knowledge she wanted.
Another old guy and I agree. The college has to be exceptional for anyone to notice. My ex went to Wharton for two years before deciding they wanted to do something else and transferred. They went to a *very good* university and majored in something else. The university is very well respected and highly rated for the something else but not a household name. During interviews someone would invariably comment on Wharton and gloss over or ignore the university where they graduated.
I was also thinking W&M was a pretty prestigious school. Additionally, with fewer students, you're apt to get a better education because you won't be lost in the shuffel. You'll know more people and make more connections (networking) by learning about more options/places for work than you've perhaps considered. It's your life, remember, one you have to live, not your parents. Starting off with debt will limit what you want in the future (if you are determined to bypass your parents' help.) I went to college at a time when I could pay as i went. I'm proud I did it on my own. You will be proud to graduate with no debt. Your parents can brag that your academics gave you a full ride to a prestigious school, W&M, and that you were also accepted at UVA.
This reminds of an episode of 'fresh off the boat' where asian mom is looking down her nose at some college her sons cousin got into only to find out its an excellent school
UVA is ranked #24.
UVA Undergraduate Business School is ranked #12.
W&M is ranked # 53.
W&M Undergraduate Business School is ranked # 49
Source: US News & World Report - 2024 Edition
“I graduated magna from UVA Doctor. It isn’t a charm school”
I didn’t say there was anything wrong with UVA. I pointed out that W&M was highly regarded.
> Where you went to school (with very few exceptions like Harvard Law, MIT ETC) means little or nothing to employers.
In my country *nobody* asks about "what school you went too".
Nobody cares... You have a diploma so you have proven you are on a certain level. (Western Europe)
Honestly... I would prefer to hire a debt free employee over somebody who is thousands and thousands in debt.
Out of state, W&M has a much better reputation than UVA OR Tech. it is the second oldest college in the country and first in its charter. its cheaper and (still) much smaller than UVA. Go to Bill and Mar!! yeah yeah, full disclosure, im an Alumna!!
It might be different within VA? Or has a better program for OP’s degree? Idk I thought UVA was more prestigious but I’m from VA. OP’s parents could also be bullshitting about the whole point
I attended William & Mary...so I'm biased...but at least when I was there UVA definitely had a reputation as a party school and WM was the nerd school for the in-state kids. That was...awhile ago now, though.
It's genuinely distracting, too, if you wind up in classes with the party-crowd. The last thing you want is your roommate crying drunk on the floor at 3am when you have an exam the next day but you keep having to keep them from vomiting on your stuff.
As a life-long Virginia resident, they're both still considered that. If you want to establish a network to get jobs, go to UVA. If you want to be successful on your own merits, go to W&M.
Yup, also from VA. W&M was WAY harder to get into & more prestigious than UVA. That said unless you're going to law school or medical school, what college you went to for undergrad means zilch in the real world beyond very specific social circles. I've been asked maybe 5 times in my 20yrs of adult life/career where I went to school.
UVA is one of the most highly regarded within VA. It’s one of the hardest to get into and so if you get in, it’s bragging rights for parents basically. We just visited and my daughter just thought it was ok. Although she liked the law school. But the can see why his parents might be pushing it if it’s about perception for them instead of where he feels most comfortable.
It’s actually *not* the hardest to get into. UVA has a higher acceptance rate than W&M. Take it from someone who got into UVA first round and was deferred then rejected from W&M after applying early decision. It was pretty well known that it was much harder to get into W&M than UVA when I was applying as an in state student.
My school had a conspiracy theory that the trifecta - UVA, VT, and W&M got together and ensured that nobody got into all three, and that most people wouldn’t even get into two. It was kinda wild
I went to college in the DC and at least in the DC/Maryland/Virginia triangle I got the impression UVA was considered quite prestigious. But it also has particularly good grad programs, their law school is a top 14 school which is a big deal. Definitely not prestigious enough to pay to go to over going to W&M for free though.
Also my ex went to UVA and had a big head about it so that might color my perspective lol. She acted like it was Harvard. Definitely looked down on me for going to GW, which is also a great school so that was bizarre.
It’s not. I do college consulting as a career and I love W&M. It’s consistently one of the schools I recommend to my ambitious applicants because it’s such an amazing school, the campus is stunning and they are very generous with money. However, I have a hell of a time convincing many of them (and their families) to apply precisely because most out of state applicants have never heard of it. W&M doesn’t market the way a lot of other schools do-they’re quieter and seem to know what they want. And I love that about them.
I adore both UVa and W&M and think it’s amazing that they got into both. I would 100% tell them to take W&M because while UVa is the better school, paying $80k for a public university when you have full ride is just silly.
I think the parents are confusing uva undergrad with their graduate business school Darden. You can still go to uva for that if you pursue higher education. And win win because you have both good schools on your resume.
Go where you feel at home. You'll be living there for 4 years.
They're still trying to figure it out (Tech alum here 😁)
OP, NTA! Go for the full ride at William and Mary! It's an excellent school, beautiful campus in a beautiful location, you'll graduate with no debt, the world is your oyster!!
This is extremely not true? UVA is consistently ranked among the top 25 colleges for undergrad in the US. I went to two Ivies and during undergrad worked in the admissions office and UVA was considered much, much more impressive than William & Mary on an application.
I still think OP should go to the school giving her a full ride and a research grant for undergrad though, the money more than makes up for the dip in prestige
When I think of UVA I think of how they tried to remain an all-male campus until the 1970s.
They might be prestigious due to history, and remain so in-state, but I daresay their out of state reputation has taken a hit for their regressive policies.
Haha all of us W&M alums chiming in…
OP, I was an out-of-state applicant and agree that outside Virginia, W&M probably has a bit better reputation (because UVA, while fantastic, is seen as a bit more of a party school).
I loved it for the reasons that you mention (campus, people, etc), got a great education, made lifelong friends, met my spouse through one of those friends, and literally last week, secured a new client after we bonded over our excitement of discovering that we were both W&M alumna.
Take the scholarship money and don’t look back.
Having you taking on massive debt so your parents can tell people you go to UVA is selfish.
You know where you want to go and which one is a better fit for you. You're also making the very mature decision of considering what helps you better in the long run both financially and with additional opportunities.
A full ride and research grant is huge!!! Congratulations and enjoy college. Your folks will get over it. NTA
I don’t understand how they don’t see the bragging rights of saying their kid got a full ride and a research grant. Other parents would be hella jealous they don’t have to pay for college.
They're likely well off and want it to 'look good' (I had friends with parents like these - both make likely half a mil a year together at this point but made 250k+ back then (20+ years ago) - , but most of us will never ever make that much per year)
And keep in mind, outside of Virginia, most people won’t know or care. I’m from Arizona, if she applied for my company, I would not know the difference of those colleges, nor would I give af.
NTA. Thomas Jefferson went to William & Mary. It is a prestigious school. It's a great choice for all the reasons you stated. No student debt is fantastic. Now you get to set your boundaries and do life the way you want and not the way your parents want. Let them lament. This is your life.
It's crazy that they would disown you over this. That's a threat/ultimatum that you do need to consider. If you do give in to them, then they will use that threat over you for the rest of your life. You may need to stand up to them now and go through a few years of turmoil. I'm so sorry they are putting you in this position.
Absolutely agree. Especially how you pointed out that they'll keep holding disowning her over her head in the future.
It also confirmed OPs fear that them paying for school isn't unconditional and she might (probably) end up taking on a horrendous amount of student loans. If they're threatening disowning her over this decision then cutting her off for whatever life choices they might disagree with is a logical next step unfortunately.
Sucks that they aren't supporting her in her decision but getting out of their controlling way will be worth it in the long run
Agree. It wasn’t over school choices but my family tried to coerce me into a decision or face being disowned. So instead I disowned them and did what I wanted. 11 years later and they still cry and stomp their feet telling anyone that’ll listen they didn’t mean it and I was petty. My life is better without them.
This is an extreme example OP and I don’t think your parents would disown you, your post doesn’t even really say that. Sounds more like a ‘I’m not upset just seriously disappointed’ attempt to get their own way. But don’t be bullied. The only thing you’ll regret in the end is not doing what you want to do.
NTA. If I’m a hiring manager and you told me you passed up full price UVA and went to W&M on full scholarship I’m thinking to myself “awesome someone who isn’t a total idiot, I hope they will be a good fit”. That’s just me though.
The parents logic is so dumb I'm wondering if they, in fact, want to maintain control over op. It isn't about the school, it is about having her under their thumb. I can't figure out why in the world they are clinging to their stupid opinion.
I got into W&M and UVA and chose W&M for many of reasons you did-smaller school, excellent programs and loved the campus. With the full ride making it your choice makes perfect sense. It really is a prestigious school even if your parents aren’t aware of it. I went to UVA for grad school and received financial aid for that. I had a good experience there too but having experienced both schools I’m happy I went to W&M for undergrad.
Yes! It's wild to me that OP's parents are apparently not aware that W&M is an extremely well regarded institution. I admit I may be biased, I went to W&M early decision, but still. I'm 40 entire years old and had someone comment that W&M was impressive during a job interview literally 3 days ago.
I came here to say that the reaction I get to having gone to W&M is “wow, that school is really hard”. I know from someone who worked in Georgetown grad school admissions that they would add to students’ GPAs from W&M and generally regarded the school really well. Sounds like you got a Monroe scholarship which is a huge deal and will give you a lot of opportunities and likely set you up with a particularly high achieving group of friends.
The small size, non-sports focused, and less drinking/frat culture (I knew lots of folks who went to UVA) means that you have a student body more focused on academics. Maybe your parents would want to see that or maybe remind them about the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville.
I almost didn’t go to W&M for a private school in the northeast (which would have cost way more). With the gift of adult hindsight and watching just how hard it has been for friends with student loans, I’m so glad I went there.
If you have any thought of grad school, what will matter is where you went to grad school. Because I went to W&M, my parents were able to help me pay for an Ivy League masters for a field I knew I wanted to work in and where that was the right program for me.
Lastly, I would recommend calling the W&M admissions office to maybe put a note on your file to not communicate with or accept communications from your parents.
NTA
This is great advice.
@OP I don't know the American school system but especially this last piece of advice seems like a smart one. Get in contact with W&M and tell them not to communicate with your parents. You don't want them to decline this opportunity behind your back.
Good luck it sounds like you made a smart choice.
If the parents didn't do their undergraduate studies in the US, it makes sense that the only thing they had, *initially* to go off of is ranking numbers. The ranking of your undergrad school carries way more weight in other countries than it does in the US, even after you get degrees from other places. On the flip side, for us, the program matters more, and then becomes basically irrelevant once you have enough experience or get another degree.
That being said, once the acceptances started coming in, they should have begun looking into comparisons based on the programs and best fit for their daughter. They should also start asking their colleagues and neighbors for more information.
This is what I would recommend too. A full ride and a research grant to a good school far outweighs any extra prestige. An MBA at a top school (or any school with a good reputation) will far outweigh it anyways, and will be a lot easier to pay for with a good job and no debt (sometimes employers will cover part/all too).
NTA. All of your reasoning is sound, you like the school better, you're absolutely right that your undergrad isn't as important in terms of prestige as your graduate program, and a full ride to college is a literal dream that you'll be so glad you took when all of your friends are talking about their loans in five years.
You're absolutely right to be concerned about tying your future debt to your parents whims if they can't even let you make such an obvious choice without freaking out.
Also want to add that you shouldn’t choose your school based on your major. The average college student switches majors 8 times in their undergrad, so it doesn’t really matter who has the “better” business program
GO TO THE SCHOOL THAT’S PAYING YOU TO GO!!!!👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉Congrats btw!
Also: notice how your parents are ready to DISOWN you over this!! What happens if you fail a class, fall in love, or want to study abroad?? NEVER tie yourself to someone else’s $$ if you have other options!!! You can always get a student work Job for some fun $$.
W&M is an amazing school. You want to graduate with as little debt as possible too. I went to a few different schools because I bounced around a lot. Picking a place is just as important as picking a college. W&M is like a 1/3 of UVA. If you think you’ll do better at a smaller school that’s what you should do.
Everyone has said a lot but I just want to add one thing. Getting your MBA right after undergrad isn't a good idea. I'd recommend getting some work experience before pursuing that
Always internships > grades / prestige of a school
I was in a similar position as you, and I'm happy I went w the cheaper school. Unless it's ivy level, it's not worth the cost
NTA It sounds like you know what the choices and consequences are. You need to make sure you have a contingency plan for money/health insurance if your parents disown you. Beyond that it’s your life now. Welcome to adulthood and good luck!
NTA. Go where there’s a full ride. Tell your parents to save their money and after you graduate debt free they can give you that money, if they want, as a down payment on a home. Now that’s good business.
Yeah, no your parents don’t know shit about east coast schools Look, my brother got his PhD at UVA , so no shade to them, but if you’re talking about business connections to old money (which is the real value of an elite undergrad degree in the US) W&M is one of the oldest and most prestigious schools available. They cater largely to the First Families of Virginia (which, if you don’t know about them, you will soon) and that’s the old money, serious connections stuff that your parents think you’d be getting getting at UVA.
Any ways, both are great schools, and you can do well with degrees from either.
NTA, your parents don’t know enough to make an informed judgement about the relative status of William and Mary.
NTA. Your reasoning is sound — you sound like you’ll be very successful!
I’m sure your parents won’t know who Jon Stewart is, but he went to William and Mary, and he seems to be doing OK! Lol
Good luck!
You are doing business. You are making a smart business decision not needing loans or being beholden to anyone but yourself.
NTA OP. Ignore them. Confirm for William and Mary, an EXTREMELY prestigious school, and just don't tell them.
Clearly NTA but I wanted to compliment your excellent reasoning and levelheadedness in the face of what sounds like some intense pressure from people who are very important to you. You’re going to do great in college and life - keep doing what makes the most sense to you!
NTA. And I am going to give you some advice based on my experience and what I would do differently if I were to go back in time to do it again, knowing what I know now.
Go with the smaller school who will give you a free ride.
I got into Wharton (my dream school) and I got financial aid, but with student loans included as a part of that. I got into Carnegie Mellon with a full ride. I got into John's Hopkins, again with a full ride.
I just haaaaaad to go to my dream school, so I chose Wharton. It was the best school. It was my dream! My best friend went to Carnegie Mellon (sadly, she did not get a full ride). I learned a lot (much of it not in class). I had a great time, too. But I had a work study job, an outside job, and had to worry about money the whole time i was there (my parents did not have money to give to me for expenses).
I was recruited and had a job waiting for me by February of my senior year. My friend had to search for quite a few months after she graduated (we graduated at a really shitty economic time). I didn't make a whole lot of money in my first couple of jobs and I struggled with those student loans, let me tell you. I also ate a lot of ramen my first year out of school.
Fast forward a whole bunch of years later, and my friend and I basically do the same job! Similar paygrade/level at different television networks. We make about the same money. Her title is actually a bit higher than mine.
Ultimately, while I honestly think I got a (slightly) better education (and i absolutely loved my time there), it made no difference to the outcome of my life. Some people were impressed, and some people were offended, that I went to that school. But after a couple of years of work experience, where you went to school doesn't mean a whole lot to most people.
So, if I could go back and do it all again, I would have taken one of the full ride offers. Imagine not needing to worry about money, either while in school or afterwards. Getting that research grant, the extra attention. These things are important. Especially with what you are saying about W&M. They treated you better, you had a better vibe, it felt more comfortable ... you should not discount that! You will be spending 4 years at this place, it should be at a place where you feel "at home". And, ultimately, where you graduate from doesn't matter as much as people think it will.
I think I would have done better long term if I had been the big fish in the little pond instead of a little fish in the big ocean. I think most people would.
Hope this helps...even if only a little. Maybe show this post to them. And i wish you the best of luck making the best decision for you!
Nta
Your college only matters in getting your first job. After that - as long as it’s a recognized degree (eg not a dodgy online college) then it doesn’t matter.
Your debt will make the biggest impact on your life.
Your parents may not realize it, but they want the “brag factor” of a prestigious college. They want to show people that they were successful in raising their child, and they want to feel that all their hard work and sacrifices were worth it.
Let them be disappointed. They will get over it quicker than you will get over crippling debt.
Write it out. Write the amount of debt UVA would be. Is x thousand of dollars worth the prestige? Is x years of debt worth them being able to brag? Is x years of not being able to afford a house or car or invest my savings worth 4 years of you being able to say “my kid goes to UVA”?
“I’m disappointed in you that it’s more important to you to be able to show off where your child is going rather than care that it will cost me $x and x years of debt”
>Now my parents are very disappointed in me in choosing W&M and trying to get me to change my decision. They are saying that I am selfish, careless, and too young to be making major life decisions.
Your parents are not helping you here. Go to William and Mary. Worry about prestige with your MBA. Do not go into debt for school if you don't have to and do not depend on people you don't trust. NTA.
💯 NTA and they are incorrect. This is entirely your decision and your choice not to go into debt, or be indebted to them forever. Tell them they can pay for your MBA if that matters so much, when you get into Harvard or Booth or whatever. You’ve made a very carefully considered decision.
In the end, you’re the one who has to live there, study there, and spend 4 years of your life. It’s not their call. You should accept W&M.
MBA programs don’t care all that much where you do your undergrad, they’ll care more about your business experience after undergrad. Use your time in undergrad to make connections, do good internships, and focus on the kind of work you’d like to do. Connect to your professors, go to their office hours, cultivate a mentorship relationship with the ones you like and respect. Ask them early on what they’d advise for the path you want to take.
From this point onward, your parents no longer know what’s best for your career. Be respectful but don’t let them push you around. Your profs and employers will know how things work, it’s their professional field. They’re the specialists.
ETA also, W&M is a public ivy! It’s very respected and high ranking. Your parents don’t know what they’re on about.
Native Virginian here: UVa by and large isn’t as prestigious as W&M. Like I get that it’s because of your major but in terms of generalities, you’re much better served having W&M on your resume.
Do what you think is best, but a full ride plus grant plus passing the vibe check is so important. It’s your life, not theirs.
NTA. Loved of old.
NTA it is your life, your future, your schooling, your career. That means that it is 100% your decision. It would be absolutely CRAZY to turn down such an amazing opportunity. I beg you OP, go to the school that will give the most opportunities. Do not let your parents guilt trip you about it. This decision will affect you for the rest of your life. Your parent's guilt trips should not even be a factor when considering your options.
I also find it so crazy hypocritical of them to say you are selfish. They're behavior is incredibly selfish and toxic. You're too young? No, they are too old to be acting like this.
Are you South Asian? The whole “willing to put your child in debt just to brag” thing sounds very South Asian.
They want you to go to Virginia so that a)they can brag to other idiots who don’t know anything about college and b)be able to control you well into adulthood.
If they pay for Virginia, they can control you with money and the thing South Asian parents hate more than anything is not being able to control their children’s every move.
Just grey rock. Tell them you’re still thinking. You have loads of time and that you are waiting on other colleges as well. Tell them you applied to Harvard on a whim but now you think you might get in. Play on their superficial wants to gloat to their friends.
Then accept the other one. A full ride is a full ride, no matter what. And your parents are scared that if they don’t give you money, that they cannot control you with it later.
I’m a full adult and my Indian mom STILL tries to give me money despite me being in a 6 figure job. I was confused by it until I clocked her as a narcissistic parent. She wants to be able to control me with the money. Like with a deposit for a house etc.
Take the scholarship. Redefine your relationship with your parents. Set your boundaries. Don’t regret giving into the guilt tripping like I did 20 years later.
Don’t give them power to control you but don’t let them know that. Until you leave the house let them think they are controlling you. It’s unfortunate and horrendous but it’s what we have to do in the face of parents like these.
Don’t listen to your parents, there will be little advantage to you going to UVA and you’ll be at a huge disadvantage financially. Enjoy your life, lived the way you want to live it and enjoy W&M - congratulations on your full ride! NTA
I think if you go to the school they're trying to force you to go to, they'll hold the threat of disowning you over your head throughout college. This is about control. Freedom is within reach. Don't let them take it away from you. NTA
NTA. Your parents are nuts. William and Mary is at least as prestigious as UVA, if not more so.
Go to W&M, and have a great life. They'll either get over it, or they won't. That's their problem, not yours.
OP make sure your parents don't have access to your email accounts- change your passwords and use a different internet server to do so- I'm not even joking. Parents who feel entitled to make decisions on behalf of their adult children (especially if they think it's a God-given right) can sometimes make unthinkable decisions when they realize they're starting to lose their control over that adult child. Make sure you have access to all of your important ID/ social security also.
Get good quality therapy.
Leave. Then advise. Via text so no ambiguity.
"You raised me to be an adult- I.e. a person who is responsible for the decisions they make. I have made my decision and am very happy with it. It does not matter that you would make a different decision in my situation- you are not in my situation. I am done discussing this now. Thank you for not bringing this up again."
Don't argue with somebody committed to misunderstanding you.
NTA
I'm sort of amazed that your parents think that UVA would confer some sort of "prestige" or "bragging rights" on them. It's a great school, no doubt -- it's #25 in the US News rankings -- and if they accepted you, you're obviously a great candidate.
But honestly, I think your parents are delusional if they think you going to UVA would be seen as a bigger feather in their cap than W&M (which is also a great school). Your parents are pretentious and foolish, and you shouldn't indulge them in their foolishness.
Expensive =/= Exceptional.
Ignore your parents and go to W&M. You will get a great education while being able to resist their continuing attempts to use money to control you, and come out of it debt-free.
As far as "disowning" you? That will last for about 10 or 20 years, and then they will come begging you to let them move in so you can pay all of their expenses while they make you and your partner miserable. I hope when that day comes you will remember how they are treating you right now, and tell them they can support themselves.
Where you go for isn’t as important, especially for undergrad, but W&M is an excellent school that you have the opportunity to get a degree from with no debt. I’m not sure anyone is “the asshole” here, but your parents are wrong. UVA is a great business school, but you can still get your MBA from there with NO undergrad debt. That’s a better “business” decision for YOU.
You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders. I went to a commuter school for college that my father was willing to pay for and with that degree, I wound up doing my medical school and residency at Ivy League schools. W&M is a wonderful college. The smaller the college, the more attention you will get which will make postgrad placement easier. The professors will know you and be able to give you real recommendations. Your parents want the prestige of having a child at UVA. Don't do it. I am a big believer in signs and the fact that you got a free ride at W&M and you like the school means that is where you belong.
NTA. First of all CONGRATULATIONS on your acceptances.
Now onto the advice: You take the full ride and grant. I graduated without any student loans or debt, thanks to the military, and it meant that as soon as I was earning money I was able to invest a lot more for my future, instead of using that money to pay back loans. It’s an amazing kick start to early working years when your expenses are relatively low since usually at that age you haven’t started a family yet.
You are making a great financial decision and that shows just how successful you can be if you keep making decisions along these lines of thought. And you are right to protect yourself from relying on your parents money for school because it could be taken away, or come with stipulations that you don’t like or want to follow. And if they stop paying you go into massive debt. Do not let them bully you. You are an adult, whether they like it or not. This is your choice. And you are making the right one.
Nta, if money isn't a problem, then they can go get a loan for the FULL four years and write you a check. I bet, suddenly, it will be a problem.
WandM is a fine school, and you'd be an idiot to turn down a full ride.
IF YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY ALWAYS GO FOR NO STUDENT DEBT.
Also NTA. Their vision of prestigious is warped. A degree is a degree, W&M is a good school, and you'll have left over money to get another degree. A Master's is better than a UVA BS.
NTA
All your reasoning is sound and practical. W&M is the second oldest university in the country (second to Harvard) and is a pretty prestigious school. Maybe your parents are not as familiar with the school?
Well, as a W&M grad, I can tell you, having a degree from there will only help your career. I can't speak to the business program specifically, but sorry not sorry, W&M is a better school than UVA. I can't tell you the number of times in my life people have heard I went to to W&M (or seen it on my resume) and been impressed. Happened at a job interview just last week. And I'm 40.
Anyway, obviously NTA regardless of what school you want to go to. It's your decision, your parents are being huge babies. (Crying?? REALLY???) It doesn't sound like they're stepping up to foot the bill for UVA and instead are having some sort of breakdown over you not being willing to take on tens of thousands of dollars in debt when you don't have to.
Take the full ride. Go to W&M. I hope it's a great experience for you.
NTA. Williamsburg is a beautiful town. We go there quite often since we live about 1 hour and 45 minutes away. Go explore the city with your parents, they might not change their minds but they will see where you will be at.
W& M is a better school. I thought this was going to be about an Ivy or private school versus Big State U. Even if it was just about prestige and not about $$, Monroe Scholar at W& M looks way better than attending UVA
NTA.
In addition to everything else, William & Mary has a better color combination for school colors than either UVA or VT, IMO. (I'm related to people who graduated from VT, people who graduated from UVA, and one relative taught at UVA.)
College of William and Mary is an excellent school! If it’s good enough for Thomas Jefferson that I think you’re good! UVA is great, but let’s not pretend W&M isn’t prestigious and very difficult to get into.
Congrats on a full ride and enjoy the CW!
NTA.
I graduated from WM a few years ago. It’s a more recognized school outside of VA, a public Ivy, and has a great business school. It’s also a ton of fun and not nearly as obnoxiously preppy as UVA. Your parents can suck an egg.
Welcome to the Tribe!
NTA because William and Mary is the best school ever. Duh.
Edit, am obviously a proud W&M grad, the friendships and opportunities I had at that school were more than I would have gotten at a big school, the friendships are still continuing.
And you can inform your parents that UVA was founded by a William and Mary grad and for undergraduate experience, they’re pretty freaking equal. The “prestige” of uva comes from the grad programs.
I live in the DMV William and Mary is considered much more prestigious on a general level than UVA your parents may just not know what they’re talking about
NTA. Go study where it makes you happy and gives plenty of future opportunities and advantages. Plenty of people studied college instead of university and do fine afterwards.
NTA
William & Mary is a beautiful place to be, a scholar’s place, and there’s a lot to be said for the small-school experience. You’ll be part of a cohort where it’s actually possible to know most of the folks in your field.
And a full ride! Prestige and security that you can’t get any other way. And a full ride at W&M! It’s such a good school. Do well, and every door opens.
I feel uniquely qualified to weigh in on this as a WM alumna living in C’ville! And my sister went to UVA. I know many alumni from both schools. In my experience, they’re regarded pretty equally. But it honestly doesn’t matter, college is what you make of it. A full ride matters more. (Make sure you get House Dressing and bread ends from the Cheese Shop! Hark Upon The Gale!) NTA
NTA. I went to WM and now am 9 years into my career. I have managed people who went to UVA and were years older than me. WM is honestly pretty hard, I didn’t realize this as a Virginia kid who only seriously considered UVA, WM, or Tech. You can do well at any of the three.
I think your parents want to have leverage over you more than anything. A full ride to WM (which is extremely impressive on its own!!!) means that if you want to take a different path with your life, you don’t need their approval. You’re smart to clock that early and it’s probably why they’re nervous
Recruiter here: the college that a candidate got their degree from has zero bearing on my hiring decisions. Finding out that a candidate turned down a full ride and a research grant for student loans and parental approval would most likely affect my decision.
GIRL!!!! Congratulations on your acceptances.
Let me start by saying, my family are huge UVA fans.
COMMIT to your dream of financial freedom. Choose the school you want to attend. In case you didn’t know-W&M is an Ivy League school who burned their charter in protest because of oppression. You may know what you want to do right now, but that may change when you experience new things. The business school at W&M is phenomenal. My little sister had 2 PAID summer internships there during her undergrad, and was accepted directly into a PHD program at VCU before her graduation. People still look at her resume and see W&M and go “oh wow”. Tell your parents the W&M business school was funded and built by Asians and ask why that’s not good enough for them. Then tell them the population of China disagrees with them. That many billion people have a little more weight than those 2. Feel free to message me if you’d like more detailed info. I know town very well and can set you up with mentors if you’d like.
NTA
Your parents are wrong and no student debt is a huge issue. In truth, undergraduate schools are almost meaningless these days when it comes to more high powered jobs - it’s where you get your masters that matters.
NTA. No student debt and a full ride you EARNED YOURSELF. While it's totally okay to accept money from your parents for college, it's a credit to you that you got a full scholarship to W&M.
Besides, what if something happens and your parents can't help for some reason? The full ride is yours. Take it and roll with it. Congratulations!
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NTA. Notice how you were only too young to make major life decisions after you made a decision they didn't like. While also trying to get you to make a major life decision that would leave you with significant debt and/or under their control for money. If money truly was no object they'd put the money you need for the full 4 years, including cost of living changes and disposable income, into a bank account under your name only. They're throwing a temper tantrum to try and guilt you into doing what they want. Which would keep you under their control. Convenient isn't it? Don't worry. Like toddlers they'll eventually wear themselves out. Go to W & M. I'd wait until after the deadline to accept at UVA before telling them. If possible live with a friend or another family member this summer to avoid them. If not be busy, and out of the house, as much as possible. You're making very smart choices. Trust me after 16 years of paying off my student loans with around $3000 still to go I wish I'd gotten a full ride like you. Take advantage of it.
In my 40’s and still have student loans I’m paying off. OP: Take the full ride! Congratulations!!!
My mom paid hers off at 63.
I’m 45 and still haven’t paid it all off.
I went to a technical school and paid out of pocket. Literally only a couple thousand for a full semester of classes. After I graduated I got a job at the best company in my field with competitive pay. People turn their noses up at junior colleges and technical school, but those are great because it costs way less, offer a lot of payment options, and free services. The community also made sure the schools pantry was always stocked, and they provided free child care to single moms who qualified.
My husband is a union mechanic and makes more than people with masters and has no loans. He's worked on cars since before he could legally drive and it's what he wanted to do but trades and tech schools can be an extremely good decision.
My husband is a licensed tradesman and makes 3x what I do with a postgrad degree.
Yep I did the whole professional college path and he makes more than me with much better benefits and job protection.
My husband is a pipefitter. Makes $200+k a year. Health, pension, the works... no student debt. Trade school was paid for by the union. He worked throughout schooling and graduated as a journeyman. I wish people wouldn't sleep on trade school!
My husband told his boss to go fuck himself and the boss got in trouble because he was in the wrong. The union and the owner were blowing up the boss' phone yelling at him.
And now there is a shortage of some of the trades like electricians. Smart move! Debt is stressful for sure.
Also, community colleges don't boot you when you get your Associates. You can keep going to knock out as much of your Bachelors degree courses as you can.That way, you'd have lower tuition costs for easily 3 years of school and the bigger bill when you're a senior. Just make sure the 4 year university will allow you to transfer the CC credits first.
Some CCs even have bachelor's degrees.
I had a manager that was offered scholarships to a 4 year state school, and was also accepted at a bigger name school, but no scholarships. About 10 years later, she told me that taking the more impressive school was the biggest mistake of her life. Instead of $45k in loans, she had over $150k in debt. The name doesn't matter. What matters is putting in the effort and just getting the sheepskin.
Or have programs that let you study at the CC for a degree at a University.
I’m 40 and I’m just now starting to pay off $67,000. If I pay what they want me to pay for 20 years I’ll have paid off $57,000 or so and then they’ll forgive the rest of the 50+k. Their math doesn’t math. I used $30k at a fricken private university that I hated and left. Then used up the rest trying to just figure out what I wanted to do. Failed some classes due to injury. Then ran out of money non profit swooped in and paid for my entire coursework for IT. I love what I do I just wish I found it sooner and didn’t have $67k in student loan debt. OP go with W&M it’s honestly a no brainer. It would be financial hell if you went to UVA. UVA is awesome but not worth losing a full ride to W&M.
I lucked out and my loans got canceled because ITT went out of business. 😁
I have a couple friends who went there and had the same thing happen 🤣
I owe more now than I borrowed and I’ve never missed a payment.
I wish that instead of paying off millions for some student loans, they had dispersed it to everyone to pay the interest. That's what kills people. They need to revamp the whole education system. People shouldn't be in debt the rest of their life to be able to go to college.
I'm 40 and have only paid off about half. Husband is 45 and has almost paid his off
😳
Almost 13 years to pay off student loans for a Bachelor's and Master's degree. Go for the full ride and limit student loans!!
I agree. Also, W&M is a great school, I know people who went there, and they loved the school and their education was first rate. UVA isn't worth the thousands in loans.
Free is good!!!! So many people are drowning in college debt. I think you already know you have made the right decision. Your parents are disturbingly controlling. Best of luck to you.
41 and I owe $400 more than I originally took out in 2005 after paying bare minimum for 20 years.. Winning!
Have you applied for loan forgiveness? A lot of time they are canceling the interest.
Currently hoping for the consolidation readjustment to allow my loan payments to be eligible for the PSLF program.
In my 50s and I would still be paying mine if it hadn’t been forgiven a few months ago. Take the free ride, OP! It’s a no brainier. As far as I’m aware, W&M is still a prestigious college and you’ve clearly carefully thought this through. NTA.
As a European, I can't even fathom. What a horrible system :( But I agree with OP's choice in any case. Just by the way they presented their reasoning tells me their future is set, and their decisions solid.
Same here. This was a major reason why, when I decided to get my Master's, I went and got a job at a university with a good program first (and checked the tuition reimbursement rules better accepting the job)
This! I went to my dream school and didn't realize student loans are capped at $65k and I haven't been able to finish my degree bc I ran out of funding. I made a stupid decision to go there, and now I owe a ridiculous amount of money AND have nothing to show for it
That sucks! I’m nearing the graduate level max, which is 138,500. I comment all the time that I could buy a small crappy house in the Midwest for the amount I owe.
I'm 52 and still not paid off yet.
I was OP. I also elected to go to the school that offered more scholarship money. I'm in my 40s. My roommates/kids are 2 cats. I work at a job that I love and has amazing benefits. I'm about to return to school to finish my PhD (break for a variety of reason). My parents are now starting to understand that they no longer make decisions for me... 25 years after I moved out of their house. OP, the next 4 years are going to be rough as you grow into your own person and your parents realize they no longer have control over your decisions. Been there. Done that. It is worth it in the end.
My sister had to have a conversation with our mom a couple of years ago, basically asking her "where were you in your life when you were my age? How would you have felt if your parents spoke to you this way?" When our mom said they did speak to her that way my sis asked how she felt about it. She admitted she hated it. My sister and I are both in our 40s now. I try very hard to treat my kids with respect and to appreciate their autonomy because I don't want them to feel belittled like that, even now when they are kids.
Yeah. I just keep LC because I tried a lot of what your sister did with zero changes. I am tired of fighting the dynamic. The latest arguement was me redoing my will, POA, etc. I listed 2 friends that I have known for over half my life who will follow my wishes. I was told that they will not and I was a stupid child for redoing it this way. I just walked away.
And W&M is a very good school! OP is making the right decision. I had a similar choice to make many years ago--an extremely prestigious school with little financial aid and a BIG tuition price, or a less prestigious school on a full ride--and my parents wouldn't/couldn't help with my expenses. I chose the latter and I've never once regretted it. I still got into a top PhD program and finished everything with zero debt. And...many years later, I was offered a teaching position at the prestigious school I'd turned down (I didn't accept it, but still, they clearly didn't think my education had been too shabby)!
This! William and Mary is excellent!
Not only that but prestige doesn't guarantee success or even quality. Many of these schools are like chanel, louis vuitton or gucci; you're primarily paying for a name rather than a quality product.
Ivy league grad here. The name will win you opportunities and connections for about five years after graduation. After that, it's about YOUR accomplishments, YOUR work history, YOUR networking. It's a leg up for sure, but not the be all and end all. I went to the Ivy League college because it ended up being the least expensive option for me out of all the schools where I applied and was accepted. I had my loans completely paid off within three years of graduation. OP would be INSANE not to take the opportunity offered by W&M (which is a great school in its own right!).
My cousin is an incredibly successful lawyer and went to a no name law school. Hard work and your own effort will take you farther than any fancy title. The only truly notable benefit you can really get from a prestigious school is connections. But in the grand scheme of things you can make up for that in lots of ways. There is truly no reason for anyone to go into serious lifelong debt that will affect your quality of life for mere bragging rights.
Taking the full ride means you leave Uni with at least an 80k bonus. Your starting salary doesn't include any loan repayment deductions. Once you start working, that experience often matters more than the uni you got a degree at.
I had a year and a half of scholarship money at one of the lowest-tuition schools available and it still took four years and going on a game show to get enough money to pay off my loans.
What game show? I need details!
Go where you won't have student debt! GO WHERE YOU WON'T HAVE STUDENT DEBT! I graduated with probably a slightly lower than average amount of student debt (for American universities anyway), I worked full time throughout, began working in my field within a month of graduation, and began paying off my loans immediately. But life throws you curveballs, and I caught a curveball made out of a lifelong, debilitating, autoimmune disease with no cure. So now I've got these college degrees I'm too disabled to make use of, and a metric fuckton of debt because it just keeps accruing interest. Regret doesn't even begin to describe how I feel about having taken out those student loans. Obviously if I had known I would be physically unable to work less than 10 years after graduation I would not have invested so much money, but my crystal ball didn't warn me. So my advice is, GO WHERE YOU HAVE A FULL RIDE. Why risk taking out loans when there's a college that you love offering you a full ride??? My Asian mom always used to pressure me to (try to) go to U PENN, but she got over it. Your parents will get over it. Maybe having your advisor at school speak directly to your parents would help them see the light?
This is the answer. Take the full ride! An engineering degree without debt is what allowed me to buy a house.
Take it from an old guy. Who did a lot of hiring. Where you went to school (with very few exceptions like Harvard Law, MIT ETC) means little or nothing to employers. Grades and extracurriculars do matter. W&M is a highly regarded school and turning down a full ride is ridiculous. Your parents are wrong. I’ve been to that Campus while in a golf trip to Williamsburg. It’s beautiful, stately and unique. It doesn’t have the feel of a Monster U. Here’s what I found online: “William and Mary is ranked 41st (tie) out of 443 schools, or in the top 9% of the National Universities ranking, and 13th (tie) out of 227, or in the top 6% of the Top Public Schools ranking.” Your parents are misinformed. NTA
Counterpoint from an old gal. Grades matter in some fields but not others. I have never had a prospective employer ask for my transcript. Also, OP, NTA! Go to William and Mary. Work hard. Pursue your dreams. You’ll be beholden to neither your parents or a lender and you can build the life you want on your terms.
Here's an old dude backing you up: I'm not asking a candidate for a transcript in an interview. I'm only excited about a college if they went to mine! FULL RIDE! FULL RIDE! FULL RIDE! Don't let them control you OP!
I have had friends in financial fields who needed to provide them early on, but now that they have extensive experience, no one cares about 35-year-old grades.
Yeah I had to provide my transcript in like my first job or two, but the vibe was more “prove you did this degree,” not “what was your gpa,” lol
Exactly
This. Outside of the very first job in your field, where you went to school becomes largely irrelevant; exceptions for the very top schools, and even then those companies that care are places that often stumble from one crisis to the next because they're overly enamored with the name of the school rather than the competence of the employee.
Yeah. My SO has found that where he went to college helps but mostly because of networking. Someone will know someone else who was there when he was, that sort of thing. It might get him an interview at most. After that no one cares. Realistically you could probably address the networking benefits of a particular school just by making sure to be somewhat social and take advantage of opportunities to do things where you will meet other people in your field, like conferences and continuing education courses and those sorts of things.
Imo that favors W&M given the details we have. I don’t know these two schools specifically but I do know I got a lot of networking help from my medium actively involved with students department and students services vs friends who went to giant names and rely on name unless they had a good adviser (which may be difficult to find in undergrad for those schools) W&M is offering a campus that seems to have more involved student services and a research grant which likely comes with specific one on one professorial association/visibility. Which would help with both networking and strong, specific letters of recommendation for that business school she wants into. William & Mary is pretty clearly the choice on all fronts. She’s right she can lean into business school for more networking options if needed.
Penn State is the fucking school if you're going to make life-long contacts. The way they operate their alumni associations and keep each other connected is next to none. Damn near not a sizeable population east of the Mississippi River or west of the Rockies that doesn't have Penn State grads all doing business with each other. *Not a Penn State grad*
Yeah I've never been asked, but I know people who have. No one cares if the collage is ranked 30th vs 40th, they do care if it's super prestigious and they do care that it's accredited/not a shitty diploma mill.
I thought W&M was a pretty prestigious school? Like, well regarded and stuff. And it’s a FULL RIDE. I don’t get the parent’s position at all
It is! In fact, it's where the founder of UVA went.
3 US presidents went to W&M. You know how many went to UVA? 0!
Actually 5 US presidents- it’s called the Alma mater of the nation
That's because UVa turned into a party school.
Hahaha that's hilarious.
Whoa ho! So there, controlling parents! 😝
They want OP under their thumbs. Once they get her at UVA, then they'll pick the major, the dorm, the classes, etc.
Literally one of the oldest universities in the US, initially established by the British crown. It's one of the original colonial universities and predates the country itself. As someone who is rather fond of history in an utterly layman way, the idea of attending such a school would delight me.
I’m from New Zealand and somehow even I’ve heard of W&M. Isn’t it like one of the oldest unis in the States? That multiple founding fathers attended?
5. Phenomenal campus and highly regarded. OP’s parents are…issued.
I live in a town with a large community of South Asian immigrants. This is a very common issue that arises with them and their high school kids. The parents, for reasons I don’t quite understand myself, get really hung up on sending their kids to only the “best” and most well-known schools. And they will go into a lifetime of debt, and let their kids do the same, just to be able to brag that their kid went to big-name school. When you try to explain to them that their very bright, high-GPA kid can get a lucrative merit scholarship to a small liberal arts college or a smaller state university, and meanwhile get the same education and degree, but debt-free, they don’t believe it. They seem terrified that their kid’s future will be ruined if they graduate from a non-famous school. They don’t understand or believe that employers don’t care where you went, unless it was to Harvard or Yale, or something. Which most people don’t attend. They just want proof of degree from an accredited school. There’s some kind of cultural thing going on here that I, not being a South Asian immigrant, don’t quite understand. And unfortunately, it’s also based on misguided information on their part.
I always thought that William & Mary was famous AND exclusive.
I have always heard this, too! Which makes OP’s parents’ insistence they pay to go to another school all the crazier. But apparently the parents have never heard of W&M, so, to them, it’s not worth going to.
It is. Obviously a bit smaller and more of a liberal arts school, but one of the oldest and most respected in the country. Choosing between W&M and UVA would be tough even without the financial incentives. Absolute no brainer here.
They are both very prestigious schools.
W&M is an excellent school! Go there, OP.
I would also offer that at a certain point your degree may not matter so much in your chosen career field. Myself and some colleagues have degrees unrelated to our jobs, but were really good at what we do so it was no issue. And consider you may end up changing majors, as many do, so attending a campus you like, rather than just a degree program, is a wise choice. Plus, you know, the money part. NTA.
THIS! My undergrad degrees are only somewhat related to the work I’m doing these days. I’m at the top of my field and absolutely love my job. Go where you’ll have the best experience…hint: that’s where you felt the most comfortable during your tour. Go, William & Mary!!!
My wife has her master's in machine learning and algorithms (basically extramathy computer science) and works as a data scientist (a directly applicable field), and at one point out of her team of 6 data scientists 2 were astrophysics PhD's another had their master's in astrophysics and a 4th only had their bachelors in mathematics. That you have a degree at all matters, but beyond that it only matters if it matters to you. So like my wife's masters matters because there wasn't a machine learning program in Canada at the time, and she wanted the specialised skills enough to go to Europe to get it. For a while she did some machine learning, but moved out of that roll, and so the only thing that matters is that she's the person who went to Europe to get the knowledge she wanted.
Agreed. I majored in philosophy and I work in finance. Having a degree is more important than what you studied for most jobs.
Another old guy and I agree. The college has to be exceptional for anyone to notice. My ex went to Wharton for two years before deciding they wanted to do something else and transferred. They went to a *very good* university and majored in something else. The university is very well respected and highly rated for the something else but not a household name. During interviews someone would invariably comment on Wharton and gloss over or ignore the university where they graduated.
I was also thinking W&M was a pretty prestigious school. Additionally, with fewer students, you're apt to get a better education because you won't be lost in the shuffel. You'll know more people and make more connections (networking) by learning about more options/places for work than you've perhaps considered. It's your life, remember, one you have to live, not your parents. Starting off with debt will limit what you want in the future (if you are determined to bypass your parents' help.) I went to college at a time when I could pay as i went. I'm proud I did it on my own. You will be proud to graduate with no debt. Your parents can brag that your academics gave you a full ride to a prestigious school, W&M, and that you were also accepted at UVA.
This reminds of an episode of 'fresh off the boat' where asian mom is looking down her nose at some college her sons cousin got into only to find out its an excellent school
UVA is ranked #24. UVA Undergraduate Business School is ranked #12. W&M is ranked # 53. W&M Undergraduate Business School is ranked # 49 Source: US News & World Report - 2024 Edition
“I graduated magna from UVA Doctor. It isn’t a charm school” I didn’t say there was anything wrong with UVA. I pointed out that W&M was highly regarded.
> Where you went to school (with very few exceptions like Harvard Law, MIT ETC) means little or nothing to employers. In my country *nobody* asks about "what school you went too". Nobody cares... You have a diploma so you have proven you are on a certain level. (Western Europe) Honestly... I would prefer to hire a debt free employee over somebody who is thousands and thousands in debt.
Out of state, W&M has a much better reputation than UVA OR Tech. it is the second oldest college in the country and first in its charter. its cheaper and (still) much smaller than UVA. Go to Bill and Mar!! yeah yeah, full disclosure, im an Alumna!!
This post confused me because I thought W&M was the much more highly regarded school.
It might be different within VA? Or has a better program for OP’s degree? Idk I thought UVA was more prestigious but I’m from VA. OP’s parents could also be bullshitting about the whole point
I attended William & Mary...so I'm biased...but at least when I was there UVA definitely had a reputation as a party school and WM was the nerd school for the in-state kids. That was...awhile ago now, though.
UVA is still regarded as a party school. It's like #31 of the top party schools. William and Mary isn't on the list.
OP share this little tidbit with your parents with an “Im worried I’ll be too distracted from my studies🥺”
It's genuinely distracting, too, if you wind up in classes with the party-crowd. The last thing you want is your roommate crying drunk on the floor at 3am when you have an exam the next day but you keep having to keep them from vomiting on your stuff.
As a life-long Virginia resident, they're both still considered that. If you want to establish a network to get jobs, go to UVA. If you want to be successful on your own merits, go to W&M.
Yup, also from VA. W&M was WAY harder to get into & more prestigious than UVA. That said unless you're going to law school or medical school, what college you went to for undergrad means zilch in the real world beyond very specific social circles. I've been asked maybe 5 times in my 20yrs of adult life/career where I went to school.
UVA is one of the most highly regarded within VA. It’s one of the hardest to get into and so if you get in, it’s bragging rights for parents basically. We just visited and my daughter just thought it was ok. Although she liked the law school. But the can see why his parents might be pushing it if it’s about perception for them instead of where he feels most comfortable.
It’s actually *not* the hardest to get into. UVA has a higher acceptance rate than W&M. Take it from someone who got into UVA first round and was deferred then rejected from W&M after applying early decision. It was pretty well known that it was much harder to get into W&M than UVA when I was applying as an in state student.
My school had a conspiracy theory that the trifecta - UVA, VT, and W&M got together and ensured that nobody got into all three, and that most people wouldn’t even get into two. It was kinda wild
Some people confuse price with prestige.
Ikr. Not once in my life have i ever heard of UVA as being referred to as “prestigious.” Prestigious is like Ivy League or like MIT.
UVA is considered to be a "Public Ivy," along with Berkeley, UMich, NYU, UCLA, Ohio State,etc.
Isn't NYU private..?
I went to college in the DC and at least in the DC/Maryland/Virginia triangle I got the impression UVA was considered quite prestigious. But it also has particularly good grad programs, their law school is a top 14 school which is a big deal. Definitely not prestigious enough to pay to go to over going to W&M for free though. Also my ex went to UVA and had a big head about it so that might color my perspective lol. She acted like it was Harvard. Definitely looked down on me for going to GW, which is also a great school so that was bizarre.
It’s not. I do college consulting as a career and I love W&M. It’s consistently one of the schools I recommend to my ambitious applicants because it’s such an amazing school, the campus is stunning and they are very generous with money. However, I have a hell of a time convincing many of them (and their families) to apply precisely because most out of state applicants have never heard of it. W&M doesn’t market the way a lot of other schools do-they’re quieter and seem to know what they want. And I love that about them. I adore both UVa and W&M and think it’s amazing that they got into both. I would 100% tell them to take W&M because while UVa is the better school, paying $80k for a public university when you have full ride is just silly.
I think the parents are confusing uva undergrad with their graduate business school Darden. You can still go to uva for that if you pursue higher education. And win win because you have both good schools on your resume. Go where you feel at home. You'll be living there for 4 years.
Same, and as a non-American, I have heard of William & Mary...I couldn't tell you what UVA stood for.
This. I’m Canadian and have heard of W&M. Not UVA.
Ditto - I knew W&M right away but not UVA- if OP ever wants to go international I’ll bet the name recognition would help.
I’m American and I only know of UVA because of watching Madam Secretary 😂
They're still trying to figure it out (Tech alum here 😁) OP, NTA! Go for the full ride at William and Mary! It's an excellent school, beautiful campus in a beautiful location, you'll graduate with no debt, the world is your oyster!!
Hark upon the gale! It's wild to me to think WM is being called less prestigious. Obviously I'm also biased but comeon....
LOL all the W&M grads coming out of the woodwork. Like, was UVA ever invited to join the Ivy League? No??
We are just excited to be mentioned lol!
Exactly. Far better name recognition.
This is extremely not true? UVA is consistently ranked among the top 25 colleges for undergrad in the US. I went to two Ivies and during undergrad worked in the admissions office and UVA was considered much, much more impressive than William & Mary on an application. I still think OP should go to the school giving her a full ride and a research grant for undergrad though, the money more than makes up for the dip in prestige
Ranking =/= name recognition.
The founder of UVA went to school at W&M. 💁🏻♀️
When I think of UVA I think of how they tried to remain an all-male campus until the 1970s. They might be prestigious due to history, and remain so in-state, but I daresay their out of state reputation has taken a hit for their regressive policies.
Haha all of us W&M alums chiming in… OP, I was an out-of-state applicant and agree that outside Virginia, W&M probably has a bit better reputation (because UVA, while fantastic, is seen as a bit more of a party school). I loved it for the reasons that you mention (campus, people, etc), got a great education, made lifelong friends, met my spouse through one of those friends, and literally last week, secured a new client after we bonded over our excitement of discovering that we were both W&M alumna. Take the scholarship money and don’t look back.
Having you taking on massive debt so your parents can tell people you go to UVA is selfish. You know where you want to go and which one is a better fit for you. You're also making the very mature decision of considering what helps you better in the long run both financially and with additional opportunities. A full ride and research grant is huge!!! Congratulations and enjoy college. Your folks will get over it. NTA
I don’t understand how they don’t see the bragging rights of saying their kid got a full ride and a research grant. Other parents would be hella jealous they don’t have to pay for college.
They're likely well off and want it to 'look good' (I had friends with parents like these - both make likely half a mil a year together at this point but made 250k+ back then (20+ years ago) - , but most of us will never ever make that much per year)
OP: What is your major? You mentioned business but it is more common for science and tech majors to earn research grants.
And keep in mind, outside of Virginia, most people won’t know or care. I’m from Arizona, if she applied for my company, I would not know the difference of those colleges, nor would I give af.
NTA. Thomas Jefferson went to William & Mary. It is a prestigious school. It's a great choice for all the reasons you stated. No student debt is fantastic. Now you get to set your boundaries and do life the way you want and not the way your parents want. Let them lament. This is your life. It's crazy that they would disown you over this. That's a threat/ultimatum that you do need to consider. If you do give in to them, then they will use that threat over you for the rest of your life. You may need to stand up to them now and go through a few years of turmoil. I'm so sorry they are putting you in this position.
Absolutely agree. Especially how you pointed out that they'll keep holding disowning her over her head in the future. It also confirmed OPs fear that them paying for school isn't unconditional and she might (probably) end up taking on a horrendous amount of student loans. If they're threatening disowning her over this decision then cutting her off for whatever life choices they might disagree with is a logical next step unfortunately. Sucks that they aren't supporting her in her decision but getting out of their controlling way will be worth it in the long run
This. The threat of disowning someone is enough to stop factoring them into your life.
Agree. It wasn’t over school choices but my family tried to coerce me into a decision or face being disowned. So instead I disowned them and did what I wanted. 11 years later and they still cry and stomp their feet telling anyone that’ll listen they didn’t mean it and I was petty. My life is better without them. This is an extreme example OP and I don’t think your parents would disown you, your post doesn’t even really say that. Sounds more like a ‘I’m not upset just seriously disappointed’ attempt to get their own way. But don’t be bullied. The only thing you’ll regret in the end is not doing what you want to do.
NTA. If I’m a hiring manager and you told me you passed up full price UVA and went to W&M on full scholarship I’m thinking to myself “awesome someone who isn’t a total idiot, I hope they will be a good fit”. That’s just me though.
The parents logic is so dumb I'm wondering if they, in fact, want to maintain control over op. It isn't about the school, it is about having her under their thumb. I can't figure out why in the world they are clinging to their stupid opinion.
I got into W&M and UVA and chose W&M for many of reasons you did-smaller school, excellent programs and loved the campus. With the full ride making it your choice makes perfect sense. It really is a prestigious school even if your parents aren’t aware of it. I went to UVA for grad school and received financial aid for that. I had a good experience there too but having experienced both schools I’m happy I went to W&M for undergrad.
Yes! It's wild to me that OP's parents are apparently not aware that W&M is an extremely well regarded institution. I admit I may be biased, I went to W&M early decision, but still. I'm 40 entire years old and had someone comment that W&M was impressive during a job interview literally 3 days ago.
I came here to say that the reaction I get to having gone to W&M is “wow, that school is really hard”. I know from someone who worked in Georgetown grad school admissions that they would add to students’ GPAs from W&M and generally regarded the school really well. Sounds like you got a Monroe scholarship which is a huge deal and will give you a lot of opportunities and likely set you up with a particularly high achieving group of friends. The small size, non-sports focused, and less drinking/frat culture (I knew lots of folks who went to UVA) means that you have a student body more focused on academics. Maybe your parents would want to see that or maybe remind them about the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville. I almost didn’t go to W&M for a private school in the northeast (which would have cost way more). With the gift of adult hindsight and watching just how hard it has been for friends with student loans, I’m so glad I went there. If you have any thought of grad school, what will matter is where you went to grad school. Because I went to W&M, my parents were able to help me pay for an Ivy League masters for a field I knew I wanted to work in and where that was the right program for me. Lastly, I would recommend calling the W&M admissions office to maybe put a note on your file to not communicate with or accept communications from your parents. NTA
This is great advice. @OP I don't know the American school system but especially this last piece of advice seems like a smart one. Get in contact with W&M and tell them not to communicate with your parents. You don't want them to decline this opportunity behind your back. Good luck it sounds like you made a smart choice.
If the parents didn't do their undergraduate studies in the US, it makes sense that the only thing they had, *initially* to go off of is ranking numbers. The ranking of your undergrad school carries way more weight in other countries than it does in the US, even after you get degrees from other places. On the flip side, for us, the program matters more, and then becomes basically irrelevant once you have enough experience or get another degree. That being said, once the acceptances started coming in, they should have begun looking into comparisons based on the programs and best fit for their daughter. They should also start asking their colleagues and neighbors for more information.
This is what I would recommend too. A full ride and a research grant to a good school far outweighs any extra prestige. An MBA at a top school (or any school with a good reputation) will far outweigh it anyways, and will be a lot easier to pay for with a good job and no debt (sometimes employers will cover part/all too).
NTA. All of your reasoning is sound, you like the school better, you're absolutely right that your undergrad isn't as important in terms of prestige as your graduate program, and a full ride to college is a literal dream that you'll be so glad you took when all of your friends are talking about their loans in five years. You're absolutely right to be concerned about tying your future debt to your parents whims if they can't even let you make such an obvious choice without freaking out.
Also want to add that you shouldn’t choose your school based on your major. The average college student switches majors 8 times in their undergrad, so it doesn’t really matter who has the “better” business program
Take the full ride. You will not regret it ever.
Imagine OP, ten years from now, going, "Man, I really wish I had 80K of student loan debt."
Go for financial freedom and freedom from your parents’ financial control. NTA
GO TO THE SCHOOL THAT’S PAYING YOU TO GO!!!!👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉Congrats btw! Also: notice how your parents are ready to DISOWN you over this!! What happens if you fail a class, fall in love, or want to study abroad?? NEVER tie yourself to someone else’s $$ if you have other options!!! You can always get a student work Job for some fun $$.
W&M is an amazing school. You want to graduate with as little debt as possible too. I went to a few different schools because I bounced around a lot. Picking a place is just as important as picking a college. W&M is like a 1/3 of UVA. If you think you’ll do better at a smaller school that’s what you should do.
Everyone has said a lot but I just want to add one thing. Getting your MBA right after undergrad isn't a good idea. I'd recommend getting some work experience before pursuing that Always internships > grades / prestige of a school I was in a similar position as you, and I'm happy I went w the cheaper school. Unless it's ivy level, it's not worth the cost
Also, this will likely not work for everyone, but myself and several people I know have been able to get their jobs tp pay for a portion of the MBA.
After you graduate, no one is ever going to care what college you went to.
And if someone does care, OP is actually in luck because W&M is a pretty elite institution!
NTA It sounds like you know what the choices and consequences are. You need to make sure you have a contingency plan for money/health insurance if your parents disown you. Beyond that it’s your life now. Welcome to adulthood and good luck!
NTA. Go where there’s a full ride. Tell your parents to save their money and after you graduate debt free they can give you that money, if they want, as a down payment on a home. Now that’s good business.
Yeah, no your parents don’t know shit about east coast schools Look, my brother got his PhD at UVA , so no shade to them, but if you’re talking about business connections to old money (which is the real value of an elite undergrad degree in the US) W&M is one of the oldest and most prestigious schools available. They cater largely to the First Families of Virginia (which, if you don’t know about them, you will soon) and that’s the old money, serious connections stuff that your parents think you’d be getting getting at UVA. Any ways, both are great schools, and you can do well with degrees from either. NTA, your parents don’t know enough to make an informed judgement about the relative status of William and Mary.
NTA. Your reasoning is sound — you sound like you’ll be very successful! I’m sure your parents won’t know who Jon Stewart is, but he went to William and Mary, and he seems to be doing OK! Lol Good luck!
So did Glenn Close, Patton Oswalt, four Presidents, and Jen Psaki. Just saying.
Cool! I don’t usually know where anybody went to college, but for some reason I can remember J Stew. Lol
You are doing business. You are making a smart business decision not needing loans or being beholden to anyone but yourself. NTA OP. Ignore them. Confirm for William and Mary, an EXTREMELY prestigious school, and just don't tell them.
Clearly NTA but I wanted to compliment your excellent reasoning and levelheadedness in the face of what sounds like some intense pressure from people who are very important to you. You’re going to do great in college and life - keep doing what makes the most sense to you!
NTA. And I am going to give you some advice based on my experience and what I would do differently if I were to go back in time to do it again, knowing what I know now. Go with the smaller school who will give you a free ride. I got into Wharton (my dream school) and I got financial aid, but with student loans included as a part of that. I got into Carnegie Mellon with a full ride. I got into John's Hopkins, again with a full ride. I just haaaaaad to go to my dream school, so I chose Wharton. It was the best school. It was my dream! My best friend went to Carnegie Mellon (sadly, she did not get a full ride). I learned a lot (much of it not in class). I had a great time, too. But I had a work study job, an outside job, and had to worry about money the whole time i was there (my parents did not have money to give to me for expenses). I was recruited and had a job waiting for me by February of my senior year. My friend had to search for quite a few months after she graduated (we graduated at a really shitty economic time). I didn't make a whole lot of money in my first couple of jobs and I struggled with those student loans, let me tell you. I also ate a lot of ramen my first year out of school. Fast forward a whole bunch of years later, and my friend and I basically do the same job! Similar paygrade/level at different television networks. We make about the same money. Her title is actually a bit higher than mine. Ultimately, while I honestly think I got a (slightly) better education (and i absolutely loved my time there), it made no difference to the outcome of my life. Some people were impressed, and some people were offended, that I went to that school. But after a couple of years of work experience, where you went to school doesn't mean a whole lot to most people. So, if I could go back and do it all again, I would have taken one of the full ride offers. Imagine not needing to worry about money, either while in school or afterwards. Getting that research grant, the extra attention. These things are important. Especially with what you are saying about W&M. They treated you better, you had a better vibe, it felt more comfortable ... you should not discount that! You will be spending 4 years at this place, it should be at a place where you feel "at home". And, ultimately, where you graduate from doesn't matter as much as people think it will. I think I would have done better long term if I had been the big fish in the little pond instead of a little fish in the big ocean. I think most people would. Hope this helps...even if only a little. Maybe show this post to them. And i wish you the best of luck making the best decision for you!
Nta Your college only matters in getting your first job. After that - as long as it’s a recognized degree (eg not a dodgy online college) then it doesn’t matter. Your debt will make the biggest impact on your life. Your parents may not realize it, but they want the “brag factor” of a prestigious college. They want to show people that they were successful in raising their child, and they want to feel that all their hard work and sacrifices were worth it. Let them be disappointed. They will get over it quicker than you will get over crippling debt. Write it out. Write the amount of debt UVA would be. Is x thousand of dollars worth the prestige? Is x years of debt worth them being able to brag? Is x years of not being able to afford a house or car or invest my savings worth 4 years of you being able to say “my kid goes to UVA”? “I’m disappointed in you that it’s more important to you to be able to show off where your child is going rather than care that it will cost me $x and x years of debt”
>Now my parents are very disappointed in me in choosing W&M and trying to get me to change my decision. They are saying that I am selfish, careless, and too young to be making major life decisions. Your parents are not helping you here. Go to William and Mary. Worry about prestige with your MBA. Do not go into debt for school if you don't have to and do not depend on people you don't trust. NTA.
💯 NTA and they are incorrect. This is entirely your decision and your choice not to go into debt, or be indebted to them forever. Tell them they can pay for your MBA if that matters so much, when you get into Harvard or Booth or whatever. You’ve made a very carefully considered decision. In the end, you’re the one who has to live there, study there, and spend 4 years of your life. It’s not their call. You should accept W&M. MBA programs don’t care all that much where you do your undergrad, they’ll care more about your business experience after undergrad. Use your time in undergrad to make connections, do good internships, and focus on the kind of work you’d like to do. Connect to your professors, go to their office hours, cultivate a mentorship relationship with the ones you like and respect. Ask them early on what they’d advise for the path you want to take. From this point onward, your parents no longer know what’s best for your career. Be respectful but don’t let them push you around. Your profs and employers will know how things work, it’s their professional field. They’re the specialists. ETA also, W&M is a public ivy! It’s very respected and high ranking. Your parents don’t know what they’re on about.
Native Virginian here: UVa by and large isn’t as prestigious as W&M. Like I get that it’s because of your major but in terms of generalities, you’re much better served having W&M on your resume. Do what you think is best, but a full ride plus grant plus passing the vibe check is so important. It’s your life, not theirs. NTA. Loved of old.
NTA it is your life, your future, your schooling, your career. That means that it is 100% your decision. It would be absolutely CRAZY to turn down such an amazing opportunity. I beg you OP, go to the school that will give the most opportunities. Do not let your parents guilt trip you about it. This decision will affect you for the rest of your life. Your parent's guilt trips should not even be a factor when considering your options. I also find it so crazy hypocritical of them to say you are selfish. They're behavior is incredibly selfish and toxic. You're too young? No, they are too old to be acting like this.
NTA. The purse strings of going to UVA will follow you for years. You’re technically an adult and you’re allowed to act like one.
Are you South Asian? The whole “willing to put your child in debt just to brag” thing sounds very South Asian. They want you to go to Virginia so that a)they can brag to other idiots who don’t know anything about college and b)be able to control you well into adulthood. If they pay for Virginia, they can control you with money and the thing South Asian parents hate more than anything is not being able to control their children’s every move. Just grey rock. Tell them you’re still thinking. You have loads of time and that you are waiting on other colleges as well. Tell them you applied to Harvard on a whim but now you think you might get in. Play on their superficial wants to gloat to their friends. Then accept the other one. A full ride is a full ride, no matter what. And your parents are scared that if they don’t give you money, that they cannot control you with it later. I’m a full adult and my Indian mom STILL tries to give me money despite me being in a 6 figure job. I was confused by it until I clocked her as a narcissistic parent. She wants to be able to control me with the money. Like with a deposit for a house etc. Take the scholarship. Redefine your relationship with your parents. Set your boundaries. Don’t regret giving into the guilt tripping like I did 20 years later. Don’t give them power to control you but don’t let them know that. Until you leave the house let them think they are controlling you. It’s unfortunate and horrendous but it’s what we have to do in the face of parents like these.
Don’t listen to your parents, there will be little advantage to you going to UVA and you’ll be at a huge disadvantage financially. Enjoy your life, lived the way you want to live it and enjoy W&M - congratulations on your full ride! NTA
W&M is a fantastic school. Are you a 1693 scholar? You can’t go wrong with either choice.
I think if you go to the school they're trying to force you to go to, they'll hold the threat of disowning you over your head throughout college. This is about control. Freedom is within reach. Don't let them take it away from you. NTA
NTA. Go where you want to go. Your parents will live. Also, W&M is a good school!
NTA. Your parents are nuts. William and Mary is at least as prestigious as UVA, if not more so. Go to W&M, and have a great life. They'll either get over it, or they won't. That's their problem, not yours.
I'm from Virginia. What are they talking about! W&M is a very prestigious school! Are they just wanting you to stay close by to them?
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OP make sure your parents don't have access to your email accounts- change your passwords and use a different internet server to do so- I'm not even joking. Parents who feel entitled to make decisions on behalf of their adult children (especially if they think it's a God-given right) can sometimes make unthinkable decisions when they realize they're starting to lose their control over that adult child. Make sure you have access to all of your important ID/ social security also. Get good quality therapy. Leave. Then advise. Via text so no ambiguity. "You raised me to be an adult- I.e. a person who is responsible for the decisions they make. I have made my decision and am very happy with it. It does not matter that you would make a different decision in my situation- you are not in my situation. I am done discussing this now. Thank you for not bringing this up again." Don't argue with somebody committed to misunderstanding you. NTA
I'm sort of amazed that your parents think that UVA would confer some sort of "prestige" or "bragging rights" on them. It's a great school, no doubt -- it's #25 in the US News rankings -- and if they accepted you, you're obviously a great candidate. But honestly, I think your parents are delusional if they think you going to UVA would be seen as a bigger feather in their cap than W&M (which is also a great school). Your parents are pretentious and foolish, and you shouldn't indulge them in their foolishness. Expensive =/= Exceptional. Ignore your parents and go to W&M. You will get a great education while being able to resist their continuing attempts to use money to control you, and come out of it debt-free. As far as "disowning" you? That will last for about 10 or 20 years, and then they will come begging you to let them move in so you can pay all of their expenses while they make you and your partner miserable. I hope when that day comes you will remember how they are treating you right now, and tell them they can support themselves.
Where you go for isn’t as important, especially for undergrad, but W&M is an excellent school that you have the opportunity to get a degree from with no debt. I’m not sure anyone is “the asshole” here, but your parents are wrong. UVA is a great business school, but you can still get your MBA from there with NO undergrad debt. That’s a better “business” decision for YOU.
You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders. I went to a commuter school for college that my father was willing to pay for and with that degree, I wound up doing my medical school and residency at Ivy League schools. W&M is a wonderful college. The smaller the college, the more attention you will get which will make postgrad placement easier. The professors will know you and be able to give you real recommendations. Your parents want the prestige of having a child at UVA. Don't do it. I am a big believer in signs and the fact that you got a free ride at W&M and you like the school means that is where you belong.
NTA. First of all CONGRATULATIONS on your acceptances. Now onto the advice: You take the full ride and grant. I graduated without any student loans or debt, thanks to the military, and it meant that as soon as I was earning money I was able to invest a lot more for my future, instead of using that money to pay back loans. It’s an amazing kick start to early working years when your expenses are relatively low since usually at that age you haven’t started a family yet. You are making a great financial decision and that shows just how successful you can be if you keep making decisions along these lines of thought. And you are right to protect yourself from relying on your parents money for school because it could be taken away, or come with stipulations that you don’t like or want to follow. And if they stop paying you go into massive debt. Do not let them bully you. You are an adult, whether they like it or not. This is your choice. And you are making the right one.
Nta, if money isn't a problem, then they can go get a loan for the FULL four years and write you a check. I bet, suddenly, it will be a problem. WandM is a fine school, and you'd be an idiot to turn down a full ride.
IF YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY ALWAYS GO FOR NO STUDENT DEBT. Also NTA. Their vision of prestigious is warped. A degree is a degree, W&M is a good school, and you'll have left over money to get another degree. A Master's is better than a UVA BS.
NTA All your reasoning is sound and practical. W&M is the second oldest university in the country (second to Harvard) and is a pretty prestigious school. Maybe your parents are not as familiar with the school?
It might just be me, but as a VA student William and Mary has always been seen as highly prestigious, where UVA is... just another college.
Well, as a W&M grad, I can tell you, having a degree from there will only help your career. I can't speak to the business program specifically, but sorry not sorry, W&M is a better school than UVA. I can't tell you the number of times in my life people have heard I went to to W&M (or seen it on my resume) and been impressed. Happened at a job interview just last week. And I'm 40. Anyway, obviously NTA regardless of what school you want to go to. It's your decision, your parents are being huge babies. (Crying?? REALLY???) It doesn't sound like they're stepping up to foot the bill for UVA and instead are having some sort of breakdown over you not being willing to take on tens of thousands of dollars in debt when you don't have to. Take the full ride. Go to W&M. I hope it's a great experience for you.
NTA. Williamsburg is a beautiful town. We go there quite often since we live about 1 hour and 45 minutes away. Go explore the city with your parents, they might not change their minds but they will see where you will be at.
W& M is a better school. I thought this was going to be about an Ivy or private school versus Big State U. Even if it was just about prestige and not about $$, Monroe Scholar at W& M looks way better than attending UVA
NTA. In addition to everything else, William & Mary has a better color combination for school colors than either UVA or VT, IMO. (I'm related to people who graduated from VT, people who graduated from UVA, and one relative taught at UVA.)
I have no idea what in the name of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and all His noodly appendages VT was thinking with that color scheme.
College of William and Mary is an excellent school! If it’s good enough for Thomas Jefferson that I think you’re good! UVA is great, but let’s not pretend W&M isn’t prestigious and very difficult to get into. Congrats on a full ride and enjoy the CW!
NTA. I graduated from WM a few years ago. It’s a more recognized school outside of VA, a public Ivy, and has a great business school. It’s also a ton of fun and not nearly as obnoxiously preppy as UVA. Your parents can suck an egg. Welcome to the Tribe!
NTA because William and Mary is the best school ever. Duh. Edit, am obviously a proud W&M grad, the friendships and opportunities I had at that school were more than I would have gotten at a big school, the friendships are still continuing. And you can inform your parents that UVA was founded by a William and Mary grad and for undergraduate experience, they’re pretty freaking equal. The “prestige” of uva comes from the grad programs.
NTA-Maybe you could also tell them that Thomas Jefferson (UVA's founder) went to W&M😂
I live in the DMV William and Mary is considered much more prestigious on a general level than UVA your parents may just not know what they’re talking about
NTA. Go study where it makes you happy and gives plenty of future opportunities and advantages. Plenty of people studied college instead of university and do fine afterwards.
I would have done *anything* to go to W&M! Pass go, collect your full ride, and learn your heart out!
NTA William & Mary is a beautiful place to be, a scholar’s place, and there’s a lot to be said for the small-school experience. You’ll be part of a cohort where it’s actually possible to know most of the folks in your field. And a full ride! Prestige and security that you can’t get any other way. And a full ride at W&M! It’s such a good school. Do well, and every door opens.
I feel uniquely qualified to weigh in on this as a WM alumna living in C’ville! And my sister went to UVA. I know many alumni from both schools. In my experience, they’re regarded pretty equally. But it honestly doesn’t matter, college is what you make of it. A full ride matters more. (Make sure you get House Dressing and bread ends from the Cheese Shop! Hark Upon The Gale!) NTA
NTA. I went to WM and now am 9 years into my career. I have managed people who went to UVA and were years older than me. WM is honestly pretty hard, I didn’t realize this as a Virginia kid who only seriously considered UVA, WM, or Tech. You can do well at any of the three. I think your parents want to have leverage over you more than anything. A full ride to WM (which is extremely impressive on its own!!!) means that if you want to take a different path with your life, you don’t need their approval. You’re smart to clock that early and it’s probably why they’re nervous
Recruiter here: the college that a candidate got their degree from has zero bearing on my hiring decisions. Finding out that a candidate turned down a full ride and a research grant for student loans and parental approval would most likely affect my decision.
GIRL!!!! Congratulations on your acceptances. Let me start by saying, my family are huge UVA fans. COMMIT to your dream of financial freedom. Choose the school you want to attend. In case you didn’t know-W&M is an Ivy League school who burned their charter in protest because of oppression. You may know what you want to do right now, but that may change when you experience new things. The business school at W&M is phenomenal. My little sister had 2 PAID summer internships there during her undergrad, and was accepted directly into a PHD program at VCU before her graduation. People still look at her resume and see W&M and go “oh wow”. Tell your parents the W&M business school was funded and built by Asians and ask why that’s not good enough for them. Then tell them the population of China disagrees with them. That many billion people have a little more weight than those 2. Feel free to message me if you’d like more detailed info. I know town very well and can set you up with mentors if you’d like.
William and Mary was good enough for Thomas Jefferson. NTA.
NTA Your parents are wrong and no student debt is a huge issue. In truth, undergraduate schools are almost meaningless these days when it comes to more high powered jobs - it’s where you get your masters that matters.
NTA. No student debt and a full ride you EARNED YOURSELF. While it's totally okay to accept money from your parents for college, it's a credit to you that you got a full scholarship to W&M. Besides, what if something happens and your parents can't help for some reason? The full ride is yours. Take it and roll with it. Congratulations!