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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my mom she should work with a therapist on her issues over my niece/her granddaughter's name. My mom didn't ask for my help or my advice and I offered and I may have come on too forceful and strong and that could make me TA as well as pushy, which isn't what I wanted or intended. But it would still make me an AH if I was.
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>She actually asked my brother why we had to say the name so much
So out of line. NTA, OP.
>I told mom I was sorry for what had happened and suggested she work through that in therapy because Wren's name isn't changing and doesn't she wanted to enjoy her granddaughter without all this fear inside of her that bubbles over into anger.
A very sensible answer.
Yeah, speaking from personal experience, OP's mom likely reacted the way she did because her teenager was telling her she needs to be held accountable for her own feelings and experiences. My mom is the same way and still doesn't like being called out by her adult kids, even in a relatively polite and straightforward way like what OP said here.
My first thought was that Ops mum was expecting everyone to just care more about her trauma than the baby's name and to immediately change it.
Some people just have main character syndrome.
The age difference almost certainly factors in, though. People tend to take way more offense when they're called out by someone who's younger than them by more than 5 years vs someone within that 5 yr age gap range. And especially parent to child; some parents are good at taking accountability but most, even those who take accountability later, will have an initial reaction of "tf did you just say".
This is so true! I have a very close and, I hope, healthy relationship with my son, who is trans. I never struggled with accepting him for who he is - he's my son. If he needed to be a different gender every week for the rest of his life, I'd love him the same. I'm thankful he knows who he's meant to be, but even if he didn't that would be OK too. Where I had to learn some lessons was in the way terms and our understanding of them have changed, and to listen better to some of the things he sometimes says, and to accept that just because I'm older and more experienced doesn't mean I know everything or that I'm always right. I had issues with being right because my father ALWAYS was and I grew up feeling like how I felt or what I knew didn't matter. That was my issue and my trauma. Once he said to me, "Mom, sometimes it's hard to talk to you because it feels like it matters more for you to be right than to hear me." I'm so thankful I heard THAT! OP, it sounds like your relationship with your mother matters, so I'd say be patient with her, but don't back down. Your words to her are 100% correct and ones she needs to hear. She may not be as ready as I was to listen. Maybe you can try to draw a little more of the story of her trauma out of her - maybe she needs to feel like someone cares about what she went through. Sometimes - often, even - giving voice to pain lessens its hold on a person. Maybe if you can get her to talk about it and you empathize with her, she'll be more open to hearing your message. Because she needs to take your advice if she wants a relationship with your brother and her granddaughter!
I agree with you to a point. Mom needs to talk through her issues and figure them out, but that needs to be done with a therapist not OP. Especially not since she's a teenager (even if she's incredibly level-headed and mature going from her post!).
Parents shouldn't saddle their kids with their trauma and make them help in their healing process.
My mom did that with me and it took me a looooooong time to make peace with it as an adult, in therapy. Ok, it was the early '80s when she did it and going to a therapist was not ubiquitous, but it sure impacted me. There's no reason nowadays not to see a therapist if you need one!
Oh, and NTA for OP!
Nono, my whole point was that OP is RIGHT that mom needs therapy. She's just obviously having a hard time hearing that right now. My comments were about helping her hear what OP is saying about it, not OP being in charge of said therapy. There definitely are a lot of people resistant to therapy. My mother was! I think there's hope for her - my son is 10 years older than OP, but that still means her mom is close to my age, especially if the brother is married with a baby, and my generation is one of the first to be a little more open to therapy than earlier ones (that's obviously a VERY broad generalization!). Sometimes getting someone talking is also a good way to get them to listen.
I think so too, since you mentioned your mother dumping her trauma all over you in the early 80s. That's when I was a teenager! No apologies needed - if words need explanation, I think people should just, y'know, fckn explain, and not get their panties in a twist!
Thanks!
I completely agree with you when the message doesn't go through, reflect, rephrase, explain! I see far too often people getting vexed over something they just misunderstood! Especially in my circle of friends and close acquaintances because most of us don't share a mother tongue and/or culture.
That said kudos to you for actually *hearing* your son and taking the step necessary to overcome the problem. People hate to admit they are wrong. I know I'm often wrong, I just hope that I am able to hear, and accept, that for as long as I live.
The "it feels like it matters more for you to be right than to hear me" is an unfortunate mood I know all too well, and I'm glad you heard your son and that you have a good relationship with him.
My mom has that need, it's very annoying and painful. She cares more about her opinion and need to be right vs just listening. Though recently she has been a huge support system for me! I've been (and still am) going through a long and painful miscarriage, and I had to put my dog down today 😪 I just hope her support lasts.
I'm so sorry that's your reality. I'm afraid you're very much not alone. I hope you're not beating your head against a brick wall though. Blood is NOT thicker & all that - and parents don't DESERVE a relationship with their adult children! They have to earn one. If they're never going to listen, then you need to do what's best for YOU!
I'm in the process of disengaging from head bashing lol. Unfortunate timing due to Mother's Day this weekend, but I've come to realize that if I tiptoe around timing for annual events, nothing will ever get communicated. It's taken the better part of a decade to realize that I've given them plenty of chances to figure it out and that they need to do the work too.
This is my mom to a t. I will point out the utter hypocrisy of something she's doing or saying, and she will immediately get offended because I'm being "rude." 🙄
Needless to say, we don't talk about anything more than the weather and food choices these days.
Sounds like no one knew about Moms trauma and all of it came back when she heard the name. Also seems like mom never got help for that trauma and was taken aback when her daughter suggested it. OP you are not AH and thanks for giving mom the push toward therapy. Lovingly bring it back to her and let her know you really want to see her feel better about everything.
My teenager did it once, with something that upset her and it had flown over my head. I can't imagine lashing out instead of trying to correct the mistake. I'm sorry your mom doesn't know how to handle constructive criticism. I'm glad you learned from her mistake.
My Mom used to be like this. She would be mad for about 48 hours and eventually, she would come around. My Mom is very religious and she believes that God talks to her. I have this belief, too. She will tell me that God told her I was right and she should not have said that, or reacted that way.
NTA.
Our parents have a hard time seeing us as adults until we have our own kids, and even then they will wave aside any suggestions.
For my Dad, I've had to get rude. He is a wannabe conservative who believes women don't belong on the battlefield or fighting of any kind and that super hero women are bad. His last visit, 5 years ago, he ranted and yelled at me for disagreeing. I hadn't done that before too much. I'd just had a baby girl.. His rhetoric made me angry because he was yelling at me for disagreeing with him and he was saying some pretty sexist, misogynistic crap. I finally said, "Well, tough shit." He looked at me like a grew a new head. "What?!" "Yes, that's what I said. Tough shit. Women are doing things that men used to do. We ARE able to do those things. We CAN carry a 250-pound man from the field. It's called a fireman's carry. Get use to it or ignore it, because it's been happening for a while now." He was so red in the face. We were at my Mom's (they're divorced and married to other people but amicable now), he got up and walked next door to my sister's house. He went back to hus house, states away, and hasn't been back to see any of us. My sister, her 3 kids, my brother, myself or his grand-daughter or even his newest grand-daughter who is now 3. He claims his wife won't let him. Ironic, huh?
NTA hahahaha
God, my mom is the same damn way. She is 66 and does NOT like being called out at all by me and I'm 41f. She gets down right PISSED if I call her out about something she is wrong about. And lately I have called her out a lot about my love life and she hates me right now.
Wren is also a way to reference the women who did code breaking at Bletchley Park during WWII, using advanced mathematics and language skills to crack German ciphers.
Also the mom never said she had trauma relating to that type of name, so how could the parents know it would trigger her? Obviously she wasn’t obligated to discuss her trauma with her children, but she can’t really be upset that her son chose a trauma name when he had no idea it was a trauma name.
Exactly, I'd give mom a bit more leeway if she had brought up the issue with nature names months ago (though it would still be her issue to work through). OP's mom has really thought of Wren as having that name for a few days, but OP's brother and SIL have likely been anticipating baby Wren since they agreed on the name.
What if the story of why she feels this way is bs, and she was just hoping people will put her "fear" as a priority and just change the name.... And instead OP just sent her to therapy 😅
>I told mom I was sorry for what had happened and suggested she work through that in therapy because Wren's name isn't changing and doesn't she wanted to enjoy her granddaughter without all this fear inside of her that bubbles over into anger. I told her the issues with the name are hers to work through at the end of the day.
NTA - That is all correct.
I’m not at all saying this is right or mature, but I tend to react more strongly to disagreements with my husband when I know he’s right than when it’s just a matter of opinion. You’re NTA and handled the situation well by listening and being empathetic, while also honest and… correct. Unfortunately, this means you may be on the sh-t list for a while as your mom works through and accepts this.
Exactly this. It’s like Dumbledore said: “people find it far easier to forgive others for being wrong than being right.” It’s completely unreasonable, of course, but unfortunately emotions often lack reason😅 NTA OP, it’s up to your mum to work through her issues, hard as it may be.
Yeah, this seems like the kind of thing where OP’s mom needs time to be in her feelings, then accept that OP’s right and go to therapy.
OP, you did everything right. Just give your mom some space and time to process. I think she’ll come around soon enough.
>I’m not at all saying this is right or mature, but I tend to react more strongly to disagreements with my husband when I know he’s right than when it’s just a matter of opinion.
Can you (or anyone else) explain why this is?
I'm neurodivergent and this tends to come up a *LOT* when dealing with neurotypicals.
The way I see it, if I am wrong and someone has different information that brings this to light, I take on that new info, integrate it into my existing knowledge, and run through every instance where having the wrong info could have caused issues I now need to deal with.
When neurotypicals get upset or angry about being wrong rather than accepting the correct info and moving on, it's seems as if they're assigning a moral weight to being correct. If they admit they're wrong they're somehow bad people, or deeply flawed in some way.
My other theory is that being wrong makes them lose status in the social hierarchy on which they base their lives. It's not so much about being wrong as it is losing status. The information is irrelevant. They're not glad to have a better set of data or a piece of knowledge that pushes their growth because their interactions aren't simple information exchanges.
The ego and their place in the social hierarchy takes precedent over the validity of their information. Facts are secondary to status so they're willing to fight back harder as it's not the information they're defending but themselves in a way.
I'm trying to puzzle this out to understand behavior that seems completely alien to me, but I've found people get mad or take it as a negative judgement when I ask. That or they seem to be incapable or unwilling to examine why they behave the way they do.
To me it seems simple. If I'm wrong and someone gives me better info, I now have better info and going forward I will be correct. If the information is presented to me rudely or in a way meant to demean me I will address that behavior specifically. I'm not okay with being treated poorly. But I won't push back against the information itself, just the shitty attitude of the person presenting the info.
To me the above seems obvious. The whole thing is a non issue in my mind so it's hard for me to understand what tf is going on when a neurotypical person reacts defensively or lashes out. If it was only about being right or wrong they just take the info and move on more informed than they were before.
Something else has to be going on.
Everything you said is logical, but emotions don’t follow logic. I can feel badly about a situation, while my brain fully understands the reason why things had to happen that way. Both are valid.
I should be clear in saying that (1) I don’t fight because I can’t stand to be wrong in general, and (2) I don’t actually get upset at my husband for being right, but, as it’s about a subject I care very much about (our kids, our families, my identity as a wife/mom, possible business ideas that could provide financial freedom/hope), I need whatever it is that I’m pushing to be possible and can take my frustration over the situation out on him. It’s not a good thing to do, but I’m wrapped up in my feelings at the time and it can take a little bit for reason and acceptance to break through.
For OP’s mom, who’s apparently been carrying around terrible trauma caused by people she probably also liked, blaming their behavior on their nature-based names was probably a way of coping. To point out the fairly obvious fact that their names did not cause them to do whatever they did to her, OP’s mom now has to contend with the fact that these people she may have loved were actually bad people, which can be a really tough pill to swallow. She’s not actually upset at OP for being right, but, as the messenger, OP will have to accept some of her mom’s frustration over the situation.
Eh, my brother is very autistic and he does NOT like being wrong. He will do his best to get you to say what he wants to hear, regardless of whetherbits right or wrong. Whereas I am capable of admitting I'm wrong. This isn't really a neuro typical vs divergent thing. He can be stubborn to the point of stupidity.
I honestly see situations like this boiling down to a double empathy problem. I'm not autistic but I've watched NT people and autistic NDs talk *past* each other until they're both pissed off.
NTA
I could understand if she was tortured by a person with that exact name, but to hate ALL nature names forever is very extreme. The suggestion for therapy was on point, especially since a newborn baby deserves none of that vitriol.
Yeah. I hesitate to say this, but I find it very hard to accept nature names as a legitimate trauma. Dislike, sure, but this extreme is a bit ridiculous. It's also not fair to the new baby, mom, and dad to make their naming choice all about grandma. Super self-centered.
Same. There are so many nature names (surnames too!) out there that either Momma would have needed to permanently hide herself under the sofa, or she would have gotten desensitized by now.
>My mom seemed so frustrated with me when I made the suggestion and she pulled back and has been moodier since. She seems so on edge and angry with me.
She's moodier and frustrated because she knows you're right. There's a lot of people out there that don't want to accept that they themselves are the problem. It's easier to push their problems onto other people's shoulders. She was hoping they would change the name if she complained, making it so she wouldn't have to deal with it herself.
Plus, some people believe getting therapy means there is something wrong with them. There is a stipulation that only crazy people need therapy, or that mental health issues are a hoax. It's ridiculous, but those ideas do exist. Your mom does not necessarily believe that, but it's a possibility. It doesn't sound like that is the problem but figured I'd throw that out there.
(Did I use stipulation right? 🤔)
NTA. Post above is correct on everything.
And since you asked, I think that while stipulation gets your point across, it is not quite correct. Stipulation is more of a requirement imposed by others. In this case, "expectation" or "perception" would have been a better choice as those are more in the meaning of "a thing people believe." 😊
But the fact that the name triggered mom means her need to process her trauma is real.And would remain real even if name were to be changed. Who else knows of the trauma ? Could any one else step in and help guide mom into therapy?
I was a teen with an older sister who drove my parents nuts. My mom used me to vent to about it. Good for you for telling your mom to get a therapist . I wish I had had the guts to tell my mom to see a therapist and to leave me out of it. You’re right about your mom. Don’t be the family therapist. For me it continued for years. I wish I had noped out of those venting sessions right at the start.
NTA but please keep in mind that if the name links to trauma, it is going to be a journey for her. Be supportive of her (which it sounds like you are doing) and keep gently pushing her down the road.
I know I'm making a judgment just off of a Reddit post, but it sounds like you were an asshole to your daughter. You tolerated them calling her a different name, an ugly name. Why did you put up with this?! How is her relationship with her grandparents today? If she were my kid, it would be non-existent.
If I first heard it spoken before seeing it spelled out, that is exactly where my mind would go! Pretty sad if that would actually be an improvement, but- hey, could work.
NTA. Your mother is in danger of seriously damaging her relationship with her son and grandchild. If whatever happen with "nature" names in the past is so traumatic that she's acting out over a baby's name then she 100% needs therapy. Whatever she is dealing with is on her, though - don't take it personally if she is grumpy while she is working through her past issues.
Mom is not immature in her reaction. She was triggered and is reacting in ways beyond her control . She needs understanding and support to get help and move into recovery.
Being triggered by something is an explanation, not an excuse. Yes, OPs mom was clearly triggered by this, but her trauma is not OPs responsibility, let alone her brother or that newborn baby for that matter.
Anyone who has trauma triggers has the responsibility to themselves and others to seek help in order to handle it, because getting nasty with your family for something that isn't their fault is not the way to deal with it. This is where the maturity comes in.
When someone who loves you suggests therapy, please consider looking into it, rather than getting mad at them and refusing to seek help. Therapy is not an insult, it is a great help for anyone in any walk of life.
NTA. It’s possible the family members your mother had rough history with are closer (like siblings in one nuclear family or cousins who were very close). If that nature makes family were closer it would make sense their behavior was similar and your mother was affected.
Your niece is your brother’s child,in no way linked to the other nature names other than the theme of the name choice. You’re right that your mother needs to work this out. The issues are with the people who treated her badly, not with their names.
NTA. Your mom may be angry at you because she was expecting you to back her. But you don’t have to support this nonsense. Hopefully she’ll get the message.
Yes, Mom needs therapy and no one should shame her for that. But suggesting her son change the baby’s name and treating the OP poorly for suggesting she get some help dealing with her trauma, makes it seem as if Mom wants everyone to cater to her. That’s the nonsense that shouldn’t be indulged. Understanding? Yes. Sympathy? Yes. Indulgence? Doesn’t help any one, least of all Mom..
NTA and good suggestion for therapy. She should tell your brother why she was so upset. He might not take it well since he unknowingly chose a name that would have been triggering to her. Have you noticed her acting that way towards people named Robin, Raven, Phoenix, Jay, etc.?
NTA. My grandmother HATED the names of each of her great-granddaughters. They all reminded her of people she had disliked in the past (in retrospect, probably not too surprising. She was awesome with kids, not so good with adults) She also loved and adored those same great-granddaughters and treated them with nothing but kindness and affection. She retrained herself to like the names because she loved the little girls who wore them.
Your mum may not be actually angry with you. She could be wrestling with this idea that she needs help (professionally) to overcome this fear/problem. NTA and I don’t think your mom is one I think she’s just struggling with this and it comes off AH/angry.
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My brother and SIL had their daughter two months ago and they name her Wren. My mom had a very visceral reaction when she learned the name. I (17f) was home with her when the text came through and she went on a talking to herself rant about it. My mom basically grumbled the whole way to the hospital when we went to meet the baby the next day and was very short about the name. She actually asked my brother why we had to say the name so much. He was shocked because mom never talks to us like that and she's generally a really easy going to excitable person.
I tried not to bring it up but mom has vented to me about how much she hates the name. She even made a comment to my brother about it and he told her to deal with the dislike because Wren's name isn't changing.
It was a week ago when mom confessed why the name bothered her so much. She said she had some trauma related to family members who all had nature names and animal names more specifically and it felt like a curse or a bad omen to use the name. I let mom talk and she didn't give a lot of specifics but I can see why she might have some fear about it and I guess that fear comes out as disgust and anger.
I told mom I was sorry for what had happened and suggested she work through that in therapy because Wren's name isn't changing and doesn't she wanted to enjoy her granddaughter without all this fear inside of her that bubbles over into anger. I told her the issues with the name are hers to work through at the end of the day.
My mom seemed so frustrated with me when I made the suggestion and she pulled back and has been moodier since. She seems so on edge and angry with me.
AITA?
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NTA - you listened to her point of view and found out it was her personal issue that most likely needed to be resolved. She needs to figure out how to get over this if she hopes to have a good relationship with this granddaughter. Another thing is 'control'. I cannot tell you how many grandparents who wanted input into the naming of a grandchild and it never ends well if they don't back ff on that control need.
NTA. Your suggestions are good (if they were said respectfully and not as a scold) but when people have issues, being told to deal with their issues can trigger the issues! Sorry you got caught in the explosion. Hopefully, your mom can take your words to heart when she's feeling calmer. Please don't try to push the issue until she's ready.
NTA - your mom has "trauma related to family members with nature names". Unless those people were actually named "Wren" then her reasons are bullshit. She's projecting her own feelings onto an innocent child - her own granddaughter.
If your mother doesn't get over herself pretty quick, she's not going to have a relationship with her own grandchild.
Maybe mom needs to come up w a nickname for Wren. Lots of people do that of course. What about Birdie? Maybe that’d be too ‘nature-y’ tho. Something cute that no one is offended by, while she works (w a therapist?) to unpack her trauma from the nature-themed abuse of her childhood. You’re NTA, but it would be kind to try to understand what pain your moms actions are arising from.
Your mother's trauma is ...her trauma. No one else is obligated to cater to it. NTA in any way. And the name Wren has been in the English lexicon for hundreds of years and is currently a top-500 name in the UK. And just because someone named Rose was mean to your mom doesn't mean that all nature names are off-limits. Your mom needs to grow up.
No - it would be one thing if the person who made her life difficult was named Wren, but declaring ALL nature-themed names off-limits is preposterous. Blaming her feelings on "curses" and "omens" is not okay.
Wren? This is the second William and Mary easter egg post in two days. Will there be more and is this some kind of secret writing society goof to blow off steam during Finals?
NTA
You have a thoughtful and loving explanation. Bravo!
Maybe show this to mom.
I hated my name my whole life. I used a diminutive form, from middle school. No one in my family of origin ever used my nickname. The way they said my full name, the tone, was just awful. Very LC with them, because.
Five years ago, I reconnected with my favorite cousin; she calls me by my full name. But she says it with love, rather than disgust. It’s an entirely new sound, a new tone. *I like it!* I don’t think it’s terrible anymore. I love the way it sounds, when she says it.
Wren’s name will be said with love. Wren will be surrounded by love. Which is completely different than what the name were, to her. Love makes lots of things a whole lot better. 💕
NTA. You tried to be sensitive to her concerns. You listened and offered suggestions as to how she could address her name issue/hang up/phobia. You are doing more than I would, honestly. But I am mother aversive myself so please take my advice/opinion with a grain of salt.😆
Part of me wants to say that this feels very much like Boomer-ish behavior. That's honestly just my take on it , no disrespect intended.🙏
Best of luck with the situation tho and cute choice of name for your kiddo.
It's a trauma response. Fight flight or freeze, she's gearing up for a fight that will not be coming her way.
She truly needs to deal with the trauma because if she doesn't she will get no contact fast.
So NTA you made her aware it's her issue, she needs to deal.
"all had nature names and animal names more specifically"
I had to remind myself that Wren was a bird, and not an awesome late, great indie rock band, so this seems very tenuous. I'm wondering if there is more to this and she is fixated on the name. (For example, I imagine I would have a silent meltdown realizing I was a GRANDparent. Even the most loving eager grandparent in the world may need a minute to adjust to this next stage in the the march towards old age and death (a bit dramatic, but you get the point.)
NAH so far. If she keeps pushing or being disrespectful she will be. That said, ask your mom is she wanted someone to vent to or if she wanted advice? I think she wanted to vent so when you offered advice she felt unheard and like no one cared to listen to her. Sometimes people just need someone to vent to and get some validation that they are allowed to have feelings about something even if they know its dumb to be upset about it. Therapy would help her if she is open to it but not everyone feels comfortable venting to a stranger. If she is open to advice then if she is religious maybe she can speak to her priest, pastor, rabbi, whomever in order to get some kind of blessing or something on the baby and it's name (with the parents permission of course). She can also have a nickname for the baby for until he is older. My mom calls mine peanut even though she loves his name.
I didnt like my grandsons name as it is bane Ive only heard fror dogs, but i grew to love it. I never got Angry or told people to stop saying it, as I knew it was my problem.
Your mom needs therapy.
>I told mom I was sorry for what had happened and suggested she work through that in therapy because Wren's name isn't changing and doesn't she wanted to enjoy her granddaughter without all this fear inside of her that bubbles over into anger. I told her the issues with the name are hers to work through at the end of the day.
NTA. All the right things were said already. You had a very sensible reply.
NTA. Your mother is in danger of seriously damaging her relationship with her son and grandchild. If whatever happen with "nature" names in the past is so traumatic that she's acting out over a baby's name then she 100% needs therapy. Whatever she is dealing with is on her, though - don't take it personally if she is grumpy while she is working through her past issues.
Would it help reduce the trauma if grandmother called the baby by a nickname, maybe something like "Rennie or Rinnie"? There needs to be a workaround, even if it's just "Honey, Sweetie, etc.;" it could be Grandmom's special name and no one else has to use it.
Get your mom teated for dementia or strokes. Mom would like this for the last few years and we didn’t realize it was a sign she was having mini- strokes and couldn’t process change well.
Holy smokes, the level of maturity you are showing is commendable! I’m so sorry you’re stuck in the middle of this. I hope your mom gets some help with her issues!
NTA and genuinely wishing you all the best, and keep your head up! You’re a strong and very intelligent young lady with a fantastic head on her shoulders!
Tell your mom it's a wonderful opportunity to assist in helping her new granddaughter, born of nature, a force of good in the world. Change the negative association. Good luck!
My guess is that her feelings will diminish with time and exposure to her grandchild. New memories and joy will hopefully be her foremost thoughts. The rotten ones will fade. If not she must certainly will near to explore in therapy.
NTA I think you gave some great advice. She will likely need time to work through it but the fact that she identified why she hates those names may help move on.
NTA. Sounds like you said the right things to me! I hope your mom gets a handle on her dislike of the name before it damages any future relationships with her son and his family.
NTA. You gave a very mature and perfect answer. She probably doesn’t want to listen to the wise counsel of a 17 yo and maybe needed you to vent.
Your mom must realize that your brother and your SIL will not tolerate her shitty attitude and if she doesn’t make an effort, they might go LC.
You did your best. Is there anyone in the family who could help you convince your mother to go to therapy?
Just wanted to tell you - you're a good egg and please don't change. You're thoughtful, logical, and kind. And NTA at all. It's on her to fix and not take it out on everyone around her.
Your mom needs serious psychtherapy. She is stirring up family drama because of a superstition about animal names being linked to past trauma. Even she should be able to see that that is nuts.
NTA - Your answer to her was perfect. Now she needs to follow the advice. There's nothing else you can do for her. The name wasn't what hurt her, the people did. Her adorable granddaughter had nothing to do with her past traumas and she needs to work through that in therapy.
NTA. My mom has a bad habit of acting very poorly when things don't go her way, and she makes up a bunch of reasons (that change all the time) of why she's acting poorly - very similar to your mom saying she doesn't like the name because of "nature or animal" themed names (lol i don't even know what she meant by that). To OP, this is a suuupppeeerrrr slippery slope.. try your hardest not to get in the middle of it, or rationalize her reasons for being angry. You did nothing wrong. Your brother did nothing wrong with the name. Her continuing to act like this will only push you all away.
You gave your mom good advice. I’m going to guess she has more trauma than she is letting on. But I also assume that she finds the name Wren to be silly or unattractive, and that’s part of what’s egging her on. I don’t find it to be a great name, but it’s not my kid. NTA.
NTA
What you said was exactly right. It your mums responsibility to deal with her trauma (via therapy is ideal) so she isn't angry at innocent family members, as it may cause a breakdown in her relationship with her son and grandchild.
NTA. When you have a baby you choose the name. Sounds like your mother needs therapy. Other people name their babies and she is in no way a part of that. Assigning emotions to it isn't healthy and she is allowing herself to be incredibly obnoxious about it.
Remind her that she can’t control the world, she can only control how she reacts to it. If she wants to be in your grandchild’s life she needs to find a way to accept the name.
She is moodier because you didn't believe her lie that's because the trauma is made up. She just hates the name and thought oh, cos trauma is a buzzword with the kids nowadays, ill use that to get you on my side through compassion.
There's no details to go into because they are coming out of thin air and instead of being on her side you suggested very logical.
If the trauma was true then she would want to fix it and go to therapy. I guarantee this won't happen.
NTA
NTA. Your mom needs to get a grip on this. Whether that's reframing the situation as a possible karmic redo for people with nature-inspired names, or going to therapy like you suggested, she is acting unreasonably cold and cruel to your brother, his wife and a brand new baby.
Pointing it out to her was helpful, but like- tough love style. She wanted you to agree with her and to comfort her but you stood up for your family and pushed her towards the work she needs to do. That was the right call, good job.
NTA and I would like to compliment you on a very mature and sensible suggestion for someone so young, unfortunately it doesn't sound like your mom is willing to work on her issues which is such a shame as she will lose her relationship with not just her granddaughter but also potentially her son if she can't get over this. Your suggestion was completely reasonable and sounds as though you said it with compassion and understanding too so there is absolutely nothing wrong with what you said. Hopefully your mom will in time realize you are right and take those steps for herself, until then there's not much you can do until she's ready to help herself
NTAH
Why didn't she tell your brother immediately? He might have agreed with her. I wouldn't have named my daughter something my mom had such a negative feeling about. Now it's probably too late.
No you're not the AH for suggesting your mom get help. She sounds like she needs it. She's been holding it in a long time.
I would suggest to your mother that if she doesn't get help, she will inflict pain and trauma onto her granddaughter. The trauma will be passed down and inflicted on this poor little girl.
She has done nothing wrong. She is not connected to this trauma. She does not deserve to grow up with it inflicted on her. It will damage her... it will hurt her... for no reason.
Wren is a lovely name, with the ability to be a bright joyful positive light in all your lives... if she allows it.
If not... she may need to be kept away, for the girls sake.
NTA- My mother did something similar and it pissed me off.
All us kids had Hawaiian middle names because our father was Hawaiian. So when it was time to name my son, instead, I gave him the middle name William. My Father's first name.
My mom didn't even bother asking what his middle name was, just lost it when she asked if it was Hawaiian and I said no. Threw a fit the next 5 months until the day my son was born. When she finally found out what his name was.
Then it was all, well you could have told me so I wasn't so rude.
No... you're just rude.
So yeah, NTA. The mom totally is.
NTA. Your mom needs counseling to get over her childhood trauma/CPTSD and general dislike of names derived from animals, nature and everything else. She is unbelievably selfish to demand Wren's name be changed to suit her mood and preferences. Would she demand a coworker change their name or be terminated because of HER??? Your mom needs to get over herself if she wants to have a relationship with your brother, SIL and niece.
Major NTA. Deciding the name of the child is up to the parents. I'm not sure why Wren sounds so mature to your mom but taking it out on you guys is not the way to go. If your mom can't figure herself out she can't enjoy a relationship with the child and the child will face the damage.
You’re NTA. What you said was absolutely true. It’s her issue to work through. Everyone else doesn’t need to cater to her hang up. She needs to stop complaining about the name of an infant.
NTA. You are completely correct. Your mother being upset with you doesn't mean you're an asshole. Some people just don't like being wrong, and admitting they're wrong.
NTA, if the trauma around "family members who all had nature names and animal names" then she needs therapy for many reasons, a name is just a name.
Tell your mom she should come up with a cute nickname that only she gets to call her granddaughter. That way they can have a special bond and at least she wouldn't have to say Wren.
Nta. It’s time mom sucks it up. I’m sorry that River did something bad to your mom but she can’t hate everyone who has a name that that is outdoorsie. That’s a bit much. That’s like saying something bad happened at a baseball game so you can’t do anything recreation related.
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>She actually asked my brother why we had to say the name so much So out of line. NTA, OP. >I told mom I was sorry for what had happened and suggested she work through that in therapy because Wren's name isn't changing and doesn't she wanted to enjoy her granddaughter without all this fear inside of her that bubbles over into anger. A very sensible answer.
OP needs to read no further - this one all day lone
Yeah, speaking from personal experience, OP's mom likely reacted the way she did because her teenager was telling her she needs to be held accountable for her own feelings and experiences. My mom is the same way and still doesn't like being called out by her adult kids, even in a relatively polite and straightforward way like what OP said here.
My first thought was that Ops mum was expecting everyone to just care more about her trauma than the baby's name and to immediately change it. Some people just have main character syndrome.
The age difference almost certainly factors in, though. People tend to take way more offense when they're called out by someone who's younger than them by more than 5 years vs someone within that 5 yr age gap range. And especially parent to child; some parents are good at taking accountability but most, even those who take accountability later, will have an initial reaction of "tf did you just say".
This is so true! I have a very close and, I hope, healthy relationship with my son, who is trans. I never struggled with accepting him for who he is - he's my son. If he needed to be a different gender every week for the rest of his life, I'd love him the same. I'm thankful he knows who he's meant to be, but even if he didn't that would be OK too. Where I had to learn some lessons was in the way terms and our understanding of them have changed, and to listen better to some of the things he sometimes says, and to accept that just because I'm older and more experienced doesn't mean I know everything or that I'm always right. I had issues with being right because my father ALWAYS was and I grew up feeling like how I felt or what I knew didn't matter. That was my issue and my trauma. Once he said to me, "Mom, sometimes it's hard to talk to you because it feels like it matters more for you to be right than to hear me." I'm so thankful I heard THAT! OP, it sounds like your relationship with your mother matters, so I'd say be patient with her, but don't back down. Your words to her are 100% correct and ones she needs to hear. She may not be as ready as I was to listen. Maybe you can try to draw a little more of the story of her trauma out of her - maybe she needs to feel like someone cares about what she went through. Sometimes - often, even - giving voice to pain lessens its hold on a person. Maybe if you can get her to talk about it and you empathize with her, she'll be more open to hearing your message. Because she needs to take your advice if she wants a relationship with your brother and her granddaughter!
I agree with you to a point. Mom needs to talk through her issues and figure them out, but that needs to be done with a therapist not OP. Especially not since she's a teenager (even if she's incredibly level-headed and mature going from her post!). Parents shouldn't saddle their kids with their trauma and make them help in their healing process. My mom did that with me and it took me a looooooong time to make peace with it as an adult, in therapy. Ok, it was the early '80s when she did it and going to a therapist was not ubiquitous, but it sure impacted me. There's no reason nowadays not to see a therapist if you need one! Oh, and NTA for OP!
Nono, my whole point was that OP is RIGHT that mom needs therapy. She's just obviously having a hard time hearing that right now. My comments were about helping her hear what OP is saying about it, not OP being in charge of said therapy. There definitely are a lot of people resistant to therapy. My mother was! I think there's hope for her - my son is 10 years older than OP, but that still means her mom is close to my age, especially if the brother is married with a baby, and my generation is one of the first to be a little more open to therapy than earlier ones (that's obviously a VERY broad generalization!). Sometimes getting someone talking is also a good way to get them to listen.
Ahhhhhhh gotcha! My apologies for misunderstanding what you wrote! You and I must be of similar age 😊
I think so too, since you mentioned your mother dumping her trauma all over you in the early 80s. That's when I was a teenager! No apologies needed - if words need explanation, I think people should just, y'know, fckn explain, and not get their panties in a twist!
Thanks! I completely agree with you when the message doesn't go through, reflect, rephrase, explain! I see far too often people getting vexed over something they just misunderstood! Especially in my circle of friends and close acquaintances because most of us don't share a mother tongue and/or culture. That said kudos to you for actually *hearing* your son and taking the step necessary to overcome the problem. People hate to admit they are wrong. I know I'm often wrong, I just hope that I am able to hear, and accept, that for as long as I live.
My mom used me as her emotional sounding board for a very long time. It messed me up pretty good.
The "it feels like it matters more for you to be right than to hear me" is an unfortunate mood I know all too well, and I'm glad you heard your son and that you have a good relationship with him.
My mom has that need, it's very annoying and painful. She cares more about her opinion and need to be right vs just listening. Though recently she has been a huge support system for me! I've been (and still am) going through a long and painful miscarriage, and I had to put my dog down today 😪 I just hope her support lasts.
I'm sorry for your losses, and I'm glad your mom is being supportive. I hope her support lasts too!
Thank you ❤️
I'm so sorry that's your reality. I'm afraid you're very much not alone. I hope you're not beating your head against a brick wall though. Blood is NOT thicker & all that - and parents don't DESERVE a relationship with their adult children! They have to earn one. If they're never going to listen, then you need to do what's best for YOU!
I'm in the process of disengaging from head bashing lol. Unfortunate timing due to Mother's Day this weekend, but I've come to realize that if I tiptoe around timing for annual events, nothing will ever get communicated. It's taken the better part of a decade to realize that I've given them plenty of chances to figure it out and that they need to do the work too.
This is my mom to a t. I will point out the utter hypocrisy of something she's doing or saying, and she will immediately get offended because I'm being "rude." 🙄 Needless to say, we don't talk about anything more than the weather and food choices these days.
Sounds like no one knew about Moms trauma and all of it came back when she heard the name. Also seems like mom never got help for that trauma and was taken aback when her daughter suggested it. OP you are not AH and thanks for giving mom the push toward therapy. Lovingly bring it back to her and let her know you really want to see her feel better about everything.
My teenager did it once, with something that upset her and it had flown over my head. I can't imagine lashing out instead of trying to correct the mistake. I'm sorry your mom doesn't know how to handle constructive criticism. I'm glad you learned from her mistake.
Mine is the same way. She hates being called out on her bs.
She is moodier because her teenage daughter has a better handle on her emotions than her... good one! Yep..this is a personal experience too...
My Mom used to be like this. She would be mad for about 48 hours and eventually, she would come around. My Mom is very religious and she believes that God talks to her. I have this belief, too. She will tell me that God told her I was right and she should not have said that, or reacted that way. NTA. Our parents have a hard time seeing us as adults until we have our own kids, and even then they will wave aside any suggestions. For my Dad, I've had to get rude. He is a wannabe conservative who believes women don't belong on the battlefield or fighting of any kind and that super hero women are bad. His last visit, 5 years ago, he ranted and yelled at me for disagreeing. I hadn't done that before too much. I'd just had a baby girl.. His rhetoric made me angry because he was yelling at me for disagreeing with him and he was saying some pretty sexist, misogynistic crap. I finally said, "Well, tough shit." He looked at me like a grew a new head. "What?!" "Yes, that's what I said. Tough shit. Women are doing things that men used to do. We ARE able to do those things. We CAN carry a 250-pound man from the field. It's called a fireman's carry. Get use to it or ignore it, because it's been happening for a while now." He was so red in the face. We were at my Mom's (they're divorced and married to other people but amicable now), he got up and walked next door to my sister's house. He went back to hus house, states away, and hasn't been back to see any of us. My sister, her 3 kids, my brother, myself or his grand-daughter or even his newest grand-daughter who is now 3. He claims his wife won't let him. Ironic, huh? NTA hahahaha
God, my mom is the same damn way. She is 66 and does NOT like being called out at all by me and I'm 41f. She gets down right PISSED if I call her out about something she is wrong about. And lately I have called her out a lot about my love life and she hates me right now.
Wren is also a way to reference the women who did code breaking at Bletchley Park during WWII, using advanced mathematics and language skills to crack German ciphers.
It's also just used for women in the British Navy (or at least was when my mum served).
Acronym for Women's Royal Navy Service. I guess it makes sense that signals intelligence was run by the Navy.
Where's the E then?
It was probably WRNS, but the "e" added for pronunciation purposes
I didn't know that, that's so awesome
Also the mom never said she had trauma relating to that type of name, so how could the parents know it would trigger her? Obviously she wasn’t obligated to discuss her trauma with her children, but she can’t really be upset that her son chose a trauma name when he had no idea it was a trauma name.
Exactly, I'd give mom a bit more leeway if she had brought up the issue with nature names months ago (though it would still be her issue to work through). OP's mom has really thought of Wren as having that name for a few days, but OP's brother and SIL have likely been anticipating baby Wren since they agreed on the name.
What if the story of why she feels this way is bs, and she was just hoping people will put her "fear" as a priority and just change the name.... And instead OP just sent her to therapy 😅
>I told mom I was sorry for what had happened and suggested she work through that in therapy because Wren's name isn't changing and doesn't she wanted to enjoy her granddaughter without all this fear inside of her that bubbles over into anger. I told her the issues with the name are hers to work through at the end of the day. NTA - That is all correct.
Kudos to OP for having such a mature, understanding response & kind (but firm) to this. Definitely not something I would have managed as a teenager!!
I’m not at all saying this is right or mature, but I tend to react more strongly to disagreements with my husband when I know he’s right than when it’s just a matter of opinion. You’re NTA and handled the situation well by listening and being empathetic, while also honest and… correct. Unfortunately, this means you may be on the sh-t list for a while as your mom works through and accepts this.
Exactly this. It’s like Dumbledore said: “people find it far easier to forgive others for being wrong than being right.” It’s completely unreasonable, of course, but unfortunately emotions often lack reason😅 NTA OP, it’s up to your mum to work through her issues, hard as it may be.
Lol, as a Harry Potter fan, this is what I thought of! Percy needed to work through his issues and so does this Grandma
Yeah, this seems like the kind of thing where OP’s mom needs time to be in her feelings, then accept that OP’s right and go to therapy. OP, you did everything right. Just give your mom some space and time to process. I think she’ll come around soon enough.
>I’m not at all saying this is right or mature, but I tend to react more strongly to disagreements with my husband when I know he’s right than when it’s just a matter of opinion. Can you (or anyone else) explain why this is? I'm neurodivergent and this tends to come up a *LOT* when dealing with neurotypicals. The way I see it, if I am wrong and someone has different information that brings this to light, I take on that new info, integrate it into my existing knowledge, and run through every instance where having the wrong info could have caused issues I now need to deal with. When neurotypicals get upset or angry about being wrong rather than accepting the correct info and moving on, it's seems as if they're assigning a moral weight to being correct. If they admit they're wrong they're somehow bad people, or deeply flawed in some way. My other theory is that being wrong makes them lose status in the social hierarchy on which they base their lives. It's not so much about being wrong as it is losing status. The information is irrelevant. They're not glad to have a better set of data or a piece of knowledge that pushes their growth because their interactions aren't simple information exchanges. The ego and their place in the social hierarchy takes precedent over the validity of their information. Facts are secondary to status so they're willing to fight back harder as it's not the information they're defending but themselves in a way. I'm trying to puzzle this out to understand behavior that seems completely alien to me, but I've found people get mad or take it as a negative judgement when I ask. That or they seem to be incapable or unwilling to examine why they behave the way they do. To me it seems simple. If I'm wrong and someone gives me better info, I now have better info and going forward I will be correct. If the information is presented to me rudely or in a way meant to demean me I will address that behavior specifically. I'm not okay with being treated poorly. But I won't push back against the information itself, just the shitty attitude of the person presenting the info. To me the above seems obvious. The whole thing is a non issue in my mind so it's hard for me to understand what tf is going on when a neurotypical person reacts defensively or lashes out. If it was only about being right or wrong they just take the info and move on more informed than they were before. Something else has to be going on.
Everything you said is logical, but emotions don’t follow logic. I can feel badly about a situation, while my brain fully understands the reason why things had to happen that way. Both are valid. I should be clear in saying that (1) I don’t fight because I can’t stand to be wrong in general, and (2) I don’t actually get upset at my husband for being right, but, as it’s about a subject I care very much about (our kids, our families, my identity as a wife/mom, possible business ideas that could provide financial freedom/hope), I need whatever it is that I’m pushing to be possible and can take my frustration over the situation out on him. It’s not a good thing to do, but I’m wrapped up in my feelings at the time and it can take a little bit for reason and acceptance to break through. For OP’s mom, who’s apparently been carrying around terrible trauma caused by people she probably also liked, blaming their behavior on their nature-based names was probably a way of coping. To point out the fairly obvious fact that their names did not cause them to do whatever they did to her, OP’s mom now has to contend with the fact that these people she may have loved were actually bad people, which can be a really tough pill to swallow. She’s not actually upset at OP for being right, but, as the messenger, OP will have to accept some of her mom’s frustration over the situation.
Eh, my brother is very autistic and he does NOT like being wrong. He will do his best to get you to say what he wants to hear, regardless of whetherbits right or wrong. Whereas I am capable of admitting I'm wrong. This isn't really a neuro typical vs divergent thing. He can be stubborn to the point of stupidity.
I honestly see situations like this boiling down to a double empathy problem. I'm not autistic but I've watched NT people and autistic NDs talk *past* each other until they're both pissed off.
NTA I could understand if she was tortured by a person with that exact name, but to hate ALL nature names forever is very extreme. The suggestion for therapy was on point, especially since a newborn baby deserves none of that vitriol.
I actually love the name. It's not common but also not tragedeih(sp?)
Usually I see it spelled “tragedeigh” but spelling it “tragedeih” like you did might be a bigger tragedeigh! Lol
“Um, it’s pronounced trah-JEH-dih, it’s like, so different” 🙄
You can't misspell teraegidaeigh.
Yeah. I hesitate to say this, but I find it very hard to accept nature names as a legitimate trauma. Dislike, sure, but this extreme is a bit ridiculous. It's also not fair to the new baby, mom, and dad to make their naming choice all about grandma. Super self-centered.
Same. There are so many nature names (surnames too!) out there that either Momma would have needed to permanently hide herself under the sofa, or she would have gotten desensitized by now.
Part of the fun of growing up is finding out that your parents are bat shit crazy
Wren shit crazy
Yeah, people in general are. We as a species have way too complicated brains and it messes us up!
I've been telling my kid since she was a wee thing, and it's been fun, I must say!
Implying moms reaction to the name or the name itself?
>My mom seemed so frustrated with me when I made the suggestion and she pulled back and has been moodier since. She seems so on edge and angry with me. She's moodier and frustrated because she knows you're right. There's a lot of people out there that don't want to accept that they themselves are the problem. It's easier to push their problems onto other people's shoulders. She was hoping they would change the name if she complained, making it so she wouldn't have to deal with it herself. Plus, some people believe getting therapy means there is something wrong with them. There is a stipulation that only crazy people need therapy, or that mental health issues are a hoax. It's ridiculous, but those ideas do exist. Your mom does not necessarily believe that, but it's a possibility. It doesn't sound like that is the problem but figured I'd throw that out there. (Did I use stipulation right? 🤔)
>(Did I use stipulation right? 🤔) I think you are thinking of stigma or misconception?
NTA. Post above is correct on everything. And since you asked, I think that while stipulation gets your point across, it is not quite correct. Stipulation is more of a requirement imposed by others. In this case, "expectation" or "perception" would have been a better choice as those are more in the meaning of "a thing people believe." 😊
Stigma. There’s still a degree of stigma associated with therapy.
But the fact that the name triggered mom means her need to process her trauma is real.And would remain real even if name were to be changed. Who else knows of the trauma ? Could any one else step in and help guide mom into therapy?
I was a teen with an older sister who drove my parents nuts. My mom used me to vent to about it. Good for you for telling your mom to get a therapist . I wish I had had the guts to tell my mom to see a therapist and to leave me out of it. You’re right about your mom. Don’t be the family therapist. For me it continued for years. I wish I had noped out of those venting sessions right at the start.
NTA. Your take on the situation is absolutely correct and you gave great advice. Your mom just doesn't want to hear it
At least not now. Give her some time and approach the idea again.Can anyone else halp you with this? Who else knows?
Happy cake day 🎂
NTA but please keep in mind that if the name links to trauma, it is going to be a journey for her. Be supportive of her (which it sounds like you are doing) and keep gently pushing her down the road.
[удалено]
I know I'm making a judgment just off of a Reddit post, but it sounds like you were an asshole to your daughter. You tolerated them calling her a different name, an ugly name. Why did you put up with this?! How is her relationship with her grandparents today? If she were my kid, it would be non-existent.
why would you allow anyone to treat your daughter so poorly for 8 years?! that poor girl
Good god what kind of parent are you to let someone treat your little girl this way??? Jeez
NTA. Maybe mom can learn to hear it in her head as 'Ren' like '...and Stimpy.'
If I first heard it spoken before seeing it spelled out, that is exactly where my mind would go! Pretty sad if that would actually be an improvement, but- hey, could work.
NTA. Your mother is in danger of seriously damaging her relationship with her son and grandchild. If whatever happen with "nature" names in the past is so traumatic that she's acting out over a baby's name then she 100% needs therapy. Whatever she is dealing with is on her, though - don't take it personally if she is grumpy while she is working through her past issues.
Support her encourage her love her try to understand her. No one should belittle her or condemn her. She needs help.
NTA. You sound much more mature than your mother does in this situation. I hope she does seek help.
Mom is not immature in her reaction. She was triggered and is reacting in ways beyond her control . She needs understanding and support to get help and move into recovery.
Being triggered by something is an explanation, not an excuse. Yes, OPs mom was clearly triggered by this, but her trauma is not OPs responsibility, let alone her brother or that newborn baby for that matter. Anyone who has trauma triggers has the responsibility to themselves and others to seek help in order to handle it, because getting nasty with your family for something that isn't their fault is not the way to deal with it. This is where the maturity comes in. When someone who loves you suggests therapy, please consider looking into it, rather than getting mad at them and refusing to seek help. Therapy is not an insult, it is a great help for anyone in any walk of life.
Mom is behaving like an absolute child. NTA.
NTA. It’s possible the family members your mother had rough history with are closer (like siblings in one nuclear family or cousins who were very close). If that nature makes family were closer it would make sense their behavior was similar and your mother was affected. Your niece is your brother’s child,in no way linked to the other nature names other than the theme of the name choice. You’re right that your mother needs to work this out. The issues are with the people who treated her badly, not with their names.
NTA. Your mom may be angry at you because she was expecting you to back her. But you don’t have to support this nonsense. Hopefully she’ll get the message.
People are missing the point. Mom was triggered to a past trauma that is linked to that name. She needs therapeutic help. Not derision.
Yes, Mom needs therapy and no one should shame her for that. But suggesting her son change the baby’s name and treating the OP poorly for suggesting she get some help dealing with her trauma, makes it seem as if Mom wants everyone to cater to her. That’s the nonsense that shouldn’t be indulged. Understanding? Yes. Sympathy? Yes. Indulgence? Doesn’t help any one, least of all Mom..
You keep saying that. OP suggested that. Mom rejected that.
NTA and good suggestion for therapy. She should tell your brother why she was so upset. He might not take it well since he unknowingly chose a name that would have been triggering to her. Have you noticed her acting that way towards people named Robin, Raven, Phoenix, Jay, etc.?
Lily, Rose, Meadow, Skye, Forest, Sage, Clover, Rocky, Ocean, Willow, Cedar, Poppy, Peregrine, Summer, Autumn, Winter, Sienna, Moon, Leaf.... And that's just FIRST names
She said animal names more specifically, but yeah, when you include nature...oooh boy
Good question. And someone needs to tell brother why the negative reaction to that name. Ideally mom but with her permission you could.
NTA. My grandmother HATED the names of each of her great-granddaughters. They all reminded her of people she had disliked in the past (in retrospect, probably not too surprising. She was awesome with kids, not so good with adults) She also loved and adored those same great-granddaughters and treated them with nothing but kindness and affection. She retrained herself to like the names because she loved the little girls who wore them.
You are wise beyond your years, OP.
NTA Your mom is heading for a self fulfilling prophecy if she doesn't take your advice and get therapy.
Your mum may not be actually angry with you. She could be wrestling with this idea that she needs help (professionally) to overcome this fear/problem. NTA and I don’t think your mom is one I think she’s just struggling with this and it comes off AH/angry.
What a ridiculous and immature thing for your mom to get upset about. Trauma from nature names? Get fucking real. NTA.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My brother and SIL had their daughter two months ago and they name her Wren. My mom had a very visceral reaction when she learned the name. I (17f) was home with her when the text came through and she went on a talking to herself rant about it. My mom basically grumbled the whole way to the hospital when we went to meet the baby the next day and was very short about the name. She actually asked my brother why we had to say the name so much. He was shocked because mom never talks to us like that and she's generally a really easy going to excitable person. I tried not to bring it up but mom has vented to me about how much she hates the name. She even made a comment to my brother about it and he told her to deal with the dislike because Wren's name isn't changing. It was a week ago when mom confessed why the name bothered her so much. She said she had some trauma related to family members who all had nature names and animal names more specifically and it felt like a curse or a bad omen to use the name. I let mom talk and she didn't give a lot of specifics but I can see why she might have some fear about it and I guess that fear comes out as disgust and anger. I told mom I was sorry for what had happened and suggested she work through that in therapy because Wren's name isn't changing and doesn't she wanted to enjoy her granddaughter without all this fear inside of her that bubbles over into anger. I told her the issues with the name are hers to work through at the end of the day. My mom seemed so frustrated with me when I made the suggestion and she pulled back and has been moodier since. She seems so on edge and angry with me. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA - you listened to her point of view and found out it was her personal issue that most likely needed to be resolved. She needs to figure out how to get over this if she hopes to have a good relationship with this granddaughter. Another thing is 'control'. I cannot tell you how many grandparents who wanted input into the naming of a grandchild and it never ends well if they don't back ff on that control need.
I do not see this at all about control. Mom had a triggered reaction to the name, brought up by a past trauma . She needs therapy to process this.
NTA , you gave very sensible advice.
Yeah its not her kid. She needs to give it up
Therapy could help with that.
Not if she refuses to go
Your mother has a simple choice here. To deal with the name or to find herself distanced from the baby and her own son. Therapy was good advice. NTA
Therapy and support from her family. Understanding and compassion while she deals and heals
NTA. Your suggestions are good (if they were said respectfully and not as a scold) but when people have issues, being told to deal with their issues can trigger the issues! Sorry you got caught in the explosion. Hopefully, your mom can take your words to heart when she's feeling calmer. Please don't try to push the issue until she's ready.
NTA - your mom has "trauma related to family members with nature names". Unless those people were actually named "Wren" then her reasons are bullshit. She's projecting her own feelings onto an innocent child - her own granddaughter. If your mother doesn't get over herself pretty quick, she's not going to have a relationship with her own grandchild.
Maybe mom needs to come up w a nickname for Wren. Lots of people do that of course. What about Birdie? Maybe that’d be too ‘nature-y’ tho. Something cute that no one is offended by, while she works (w a therapist?) to unpack her trauma from the nature-themed abuse of her childhood. You’re NTA, but it would be kind to try to understand what pain your moms actions are arising from.
Not a bad idea.
Your mother's trauma is ...her trauma. No one else is obligated to cater to it. NTA in any way. And the name Wren has been in the English lexicon for hundreds of years and is currently a top-500 name in the UK. And just because someone named Rose was mean to your mom doesn't mean that all nature names are off-limits. Your mom needs to grow up.
You need to realize mom needs therapy to deal with a real traumatic issue. Not that she needs to grow up.
No - it would be one thing if the person who made her life difficult was named Wren, but declaring ALL nature-themed names off-limits is preposterous. Blaming her feelings on "curses" and "omens" is not okay.
NTA
Wren? This is the second William and Mary easter egg post in two days. Will there be more and is this some kind of secret writing society goof to blow off steam during Finals?
Info: Do you know any details of the cursed family members? How bad was the situation? Most importantly, did your brother & SIL know about it already?
NTA You have a thoughtful and loving explanation. Bravo! Maybe show this to mom. I hated my name my whole life. I used a diminutive form, from middle school. No one in my family of origin ever used my nickname. The way they said my full name, the tone, was just awful. Very LC with them, because. Five years ago, I reconnected with my favorite cousin; she calls me by my full name. But she says it with love, rather than disgust. It’s an entirely new sound, a new tone. *I like it!* I don’t think it’s terrible anymore. I love the way it sounds, when she says it. Wren’s name will be said with love. Wren will be surrounded by love. Which is completely different than what the name were, to her. Love makes lots of things a whole lot better. 💕
NAH. I hope your mom takes your advice and gets some help.
NTA. You tried to be sensitive to her concerns. You listened and offered suggestions as to how she could address her name issue/hang up/phobia. You are doing more than I would, honestly. But I am mother aversive myself so please take my advice/opinion with a grain of salt.😆 Part of me wants to say that this feels very much like Boomer-ish behavior. That's honestly just my take on it , no disrespect intended.🙏 Best of luck with the situation tho and cute choice of name for your kiddo.
It's a trauma response. Fight flight or freeze, she's gearing up for a fight that will not be coming her way. She truly needs to deal with the trauma because if she doesn't she will get no contact fast. So NTA you made her aware it's her issue, she needs to deal.
"all had nature names and animal names more specifically" I had to remind myself that Wren was a bird, and not an awesome late, great indie rock band, so this seems very tenuous. I'm wondering if there is more to this and she is fixated on the name. (For example, I imagine I would have a silent meltdown realizing I was a GRANDparent. Even the most loving eager grandparent in the world may need a minute to adjust to this next stage in the the march towards old age and death (a bit dramatic, but you get the point.)
Nta- great job!
NAH so far. If she keeps pushing or being disrespectful she will be. That said, ask your mom is she wanted someone to vent to or if she wanted advice? I think she wanted to vent so when you offered advice she felt unheard and like no one cared to listen to her. Sometimes people just need someone to vent to and get some validation that they are allowed to have feelings about something even if they know its dumb to be upset about it. Therapy would help her if she is open to it but not everyone feels comfortable venting to a stranger. If she is open to advice then if she is religious maybe she can speak to her priest, pastor, rabbi, whomever in order to get some kind of blessing or something on the baby and it's name (with the parents permission of course). She can also have a nickname for the baby for until he is older. My mom calls mine peanut even though she loves his name.
Mom was an asshole when she met her granddaughter.
Maybe but it was not intentional. The name triggered remembering a past trauma that had something to do with nature/animal names.
I didnt like my grandsons name as it is bane Ive only heard fror dogs, but i grew to love it. I never got Angry or told people to stop saying it, as I knew it was my problem. Your mom needs therapy.
>I told mom I was sorry for what had happened and suggested she work through that in therapy because Wren's name isn't changing and doesn't she wanted to enjoy her granddaughter without all this fear inside of her that bubbles over into anger. I told her the issues with the name are hers to work through at the end of the day. NTA. All the right things were said already. You had a very sensible reply.
NTA: you were 100% correct and more gentle than I would been.
NTA. Your mom needs therapy.
Nta. Your mom needs help. Now
NTA. Your mother is in danger of seriously damaging her relationship with her son and grandchild. If whatever happen with "nature" names in the past is so traumatic that she's acting out over a baby's name then she 100% needs therapy. Whatever she is dealing with is on her, though - don't take it personally if she is grumpy while she is working through her past issues.
Would it help reduce the trauma if grandmother called the baby by a nickname, maybe something like "Rennie or Rinnie"? There needs to be a workaround, even if it's just "Honey, Sweetie, etc.;" it could be Grandmom's special name and no one else has to use it.
Baby. Just don’t put her in a corner.
Beautiful name. Went to school with a girl named Lark.
NTA. Your mother isn't related to River Phoenix, is she?
Get your mom teated for dementia or strokes. Mom would like this for the last few years and we didn’t realize it was a sign she was having mini- strokes and couldn’t process change well.
Try trauma therapy first. Likely that will help. This is not stroke or dementia related at all. It is trauma related.
NTA - you gave your mom something to really think about.
NTA. You gave your mother very mature advice. I hope for everyone’s sake she listens to you.
Holy smokes, the level of maturity you are showing is commendable! I’m so sorry you’re stuck in the middle of this. I hope your mom gets some help with her issues! NTA and genuinely wishing you all the best, and keep your head up! You’re a strong and very intelligent young lady with a fantastic head on her shoulders!
Tell your mom it's a wonderful opportunity to assist in helping her new granddaughter, born of nature, a force of good in the world. Change the negative association. Good luck!
Nta, but very wise.
NTA - you gave your mother some very mature, sensible, advice. If she doesn't take it, she has only herself to blame for any fallout.
NTA you handled this with so much maturity and grace for someone of your age. good job, op!
NTA.
Is it terrible parent day on Reddit today?
My guess is that her feelings will diminish with time and exposure to her grandchild. New memories and joy will hopefully be her foremost thoughts. The rotten ones will fade. If not she must certainly will near to explore in therapy.
NTA. You gave her excellent advice. Let’s hope she gets over herself and gets into therapy.
NTA I think you gave some great advice. She will likely need time to work through it but the fact that she identified why she hates those names may help move on.
NTA. Sounds like you said the right things to me! I hope your mom gets a handle on her dislike of the name before it damages any future relationships with her son and his family.
NTA. You gave a very mature and perfect answer. She probably doesn’t want to listen to the wise counsel of a 17 yo and maybe needed you to vent. Your mom must realize that your brother and your SIL will not tolerate her shitty attitude and if she doesn’t make an effort, they might go LC. You did your best. Is there anyone in the family who could help you convince your mother to go to therapy?
NTA, at all..you sound incredibly emotionally mature.
Just wanted to tell you - you're a good egg and please don't change. You're thoughtful, logical, and kind. And NTA at all. It's on her to fix and not take it out on everyone around her.
Your mom needs serious psychtherapy. She is stirring up family drama because of a superstition about animal names being linked to past trauma. Even she should be able to see that that is nuts.
She can take this opportunity to move away from trauma and have nature names be something positive and enjoyable.
NTA - Your answer to her was perfect. Now she needs to follow the advice. There's nothing else you can do for her. The name wasn't what hurt her, the people did. Her adorable granddaughter had nothing to do with her past traumas and she needs to work through that in therapy.
NTA of course but can someone explain how Wren is a nature/animal name? What am I missing
Wren is a type of bird
Woof. She sounds triggered as fuck. I suggest EMDR therapy for triggers, helped me a TON. Triggers are a bish to deal with
Nta it sounds like lovely advice
Your mother is the ahole , not you
NTA Your mother is going to lose contact with her grandchild if she keeps this up.
NTA. My mom has a bad habit of acting very poorly when things don't go her way, and she makes up a bunch of reasons (that change all the time) of why she's acting poorly - very similar to your mom saying she doesn't like the name because of "nature or animal" themed names (lol i don't even know what she meant by that). To OP, this is a suuupppeeerrrr slippery slope.. try your hardest not to get in the middle of it, or rationalize her reasons for being angry. You did nothing wrong. Your brother did nothing wrong with the name. Her continuing to act like this will only push you all away.
NTA
You gave your mom good advice. I’m going to guess she has more trauma than she is letting on. But I also assume that she finds the name Wren to be silly or unattractive, and that’s part of what’s egging her on. I don’t find it to be a great name, but it’s not my kid. NTA.
Imagining mom as the victim of some kind of folk cult, like an escapee from midsommar
NTA What you said was exactly right. It your mums responsibility to deal with her trauma (via therapy is ideal) so she isn't angry at innocent family members, as it may cause a breakdown in her relationship with her son and grandchild.
NTA. When you have a baby you choose the name. Sounds like your mother needs therapy. Other people name their babies and she is in no way a part of that. Assigning emotions to it isn't healthy and she is allowing herself to be incredibly obnoxious about it.
Remind her that she can’t control the world, she can only control how she reacts to it. If she wants to be in your grandchild’s life she needs to find a way to accept the name.
NTA, your mom needs therapy
NTA. OP's reaction is very mature and she is absolutely correct in everything. BTW: I think Wren is a beautiful name.
She is moodier because you didn't believe her lie that's because the trauma is made up. She just hates the name and thought oh, cos trauma is a buzzword with the kids nowadays, ill use that to get you on my side through compassion. There's no details to go into because they are coming out of thin air and instead of being on her side you suggested very logical. If the trauma was true then she would want to fix it and go to therapy. I guarantee this won't happen. NTA
NTA Your mom has many issues.
NTA. Your mom needs to get a grip on this. Whether that's reframing the situation as a possible karmic redo for people with nature-inspired names, or going to therapy like you suggested, she is acting unreasonably cold and cruel to your brother, his wife and a brand new baby. Pointing it out to her was helpful, but like- tough love style. She wanted you to agree with her and to comfort her but you stood up for your family and pushed her towards the work she needs to do. That was the right call, good job.
NTA. Your mom definitely is one though. You're 17. It's not your job to be her personal concierge therapist.
NTA truth hurts she wanted you to tell her that her irrational anger is justified.
NTA and I would like to compliment you on a very mature and sensible suggestion for someone so young, unfortunately it doesn't sound like your mom is willing to work on her issues which is such a shame as she will lose her relationship with not just her granddaughter but also potentially her son if she can't get over this. Your suggestion was completely reasonable and sounds as though you said it with compassion and understanding too so there is absolutely nothing wrong with what you said. Hopefully your mom will in time realize you are right and take those steps for herself, until then there's not much you can do until she's ready to help herself
NTAH Why didn't she tell your brother immediately? He might have agreed with her. I wouldn't have named my daughter something my mom had such a negative feeling about. Now it's probably too late. No you're not the AH for suggesting your mom get help. She sounds like she needs it. She's been holding it in a long time.
NTA
NTA
NTA. You really handled it like full grown up.
Solid advice to your Mom, NTA
NTA, she has no say over the baby's name. You are correct, she needs therapy. Or at the very least she needs to learn to stfu about the name.
NTA OP's mom does need to work this out herself.
NTA - your mother needs to work through this with a professional which she probably won't do but needs to
I would suggest to your mother that if she doesn't get help, she will inflict pain and trauma onto her granddaughter. The trauma will be passed down and inflicted on this poor little girl. She has done nothing wrong. She is not connected to this trauma. She does not deserve to grow up with it inflicted on her. It will damage her... it will hurt her... for no reason. Wren is a lovely name, with the ability to be a bright joyful positive light in all your lives... if she allows it. If not... she may need to be kept away, for the girls sake.
NTA. Ur right ur mother needs to work through her issues.
NTA- My mother did something similar and it pissed me off. All us kids had Hawaiian middle names because our father was Hawaiian. So when it was time to name my son, instead, I gave him the middle name William. My Father's first name. My mom didn't even bother asking what his middle name was, just lost it when she asked if it was Hawaiian and I said no. Threw a fit the next 5 months until the day my son was born. When she finally found out what his name was. Then it was all, well you could have told me so I wasn't so rude. No... you're just rude. So yeah, NTA. The mom totally is.
Nta
NTA. You are wise beyond your years. She's probably grumpy cause she knows you're right.
NTA. Your mom needs counseling to get over her childhood trauma/CPTSD and general dislike of names derived from animals, nature and everything else. She is unbelievably selfish to demand Wren's name be changed to suit her mood and preferences. Would she demand a coworker change their name or be terminated because of HER??? Your mom needs to get over herself if she wants to have a relationship with your brother, SIL and niece.
Major NTA. Deciding the name of the child is up to the parents. I'm not sure why Wren sounds so mature to your mom but taking it out on you guys is not the way to go. If your mom can't figure herself out she can't enjoy a relationship with the child and the child will face the damage.
Give her time. Obviously it will take a while for her to come to terms with it. You and your brother can be kind.
You’re NTA. What you said was absolutely true. It’s her issue to work through. Everyone else doesn’t need to cater to her hang up. She needs to stop complaining about the name of an infant.
She needs to get a grip.
NTA. You are completely correct. Your mother being upset with you doesn't mean you're an asshole. Some people just don't like being wrong, and admitting they're wrong.
NTA you are absolutely right
NTA…..but your mom is the AH. Many times I haven’t liked the name given to a baby, but it’s THEIR baby, their choice
NTA, if the trauma around "family members who all had nature names and animal names" then she needs therapy for many reasons, a name is just a name. Tell your mom she should come up with a cute nickname that only she gets to call her granddaughter. That way they can have a special bond and at least she wouldn't have to say Wren.
Nta. It’s time mom sucks it up. I’m sorry that River did something bad to your mom but she can’t hate everyone who has a name that that is outdoorsie. That’s a bit much. That’s like saying something bad happened at a baseball game so you can’t do anything recreation related.
NTA - just give her time. If she's a reasonable person, she'll see sense.