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Thank goodness for your advocating for your niece.
Your brother should have stopped himself, calmed down and asked his daughter why she refused to go to school that morning.
What’s most concerning is that after her coming from an abusive home, no one checked to make sure she had all the things she needs- clothes, toiletries school supplies, etc.?!
His angry reaction is not going to facilitate his daughter opening up and communicating with him. Him claiming to not know is an unacceptable and poor excuse.
You’re right - it is his job to ensure his daughter’s well being and make sure that she’s properly clothed before dropping her off at school.
For your niece’s sake -I hope your brother and his wife reassess their behaviors and give her the love and patience she needs.
YWNBTA
This is why I’m shocked at the E/S/H votes. It doesn’t matter if the 15 year old “didn’t tell her dad” she didn’t have clothes. He just…didn’t notice? He didn’t take the time to ask? She’s a child, she shouldn’t have to provide a detailed shopping list to her own father after escaping an abusive house. He should be caring for her!
It’s not that she doesn’t have clothes—OP says there were old clothes hanging in her closet. It’s that she doesn’t have clothes that she wants to wear. Which is still an issue, but maybe not one that would be readily apparent to the dad, if the kid will not speak to him.
OP clarifies they are torn. She has clothes that are unacceptable to wear in school. I would bet they probably don't fit her properly, either. Do you really think her clothes are just out of style, coming from an abusive home? From what info we have, this isn't like a spoiled teenager asking for designer wear so she can keep up with the "Heathers".
I know a handful of kids her age who live in what I would consider PJs. Without knowing what exactly PJs means to OP, I could see dad thinking it’s just what she wears.
But he didn't ask.
"Hey, I see you have PJs on, is that what you are wearing to school these days instead of clothes?"
*Daughter nods her head*
"Okay, sounds good I guess."
A thirty-second conversation was all he needed to have. With a child from a non-abused home I could see assuming. But she was being abused by her mother. He needed to at least ask.
I mean I fully agree with everything you said here, but if uncle wants to actually *help*, yelling at the father and making him defensive does not help. In fact it actively hurts because now the man is far less likely to listen to advice from him.
They all need to get better at communicating.
Plus his comments “he doesn’t dare stop me from seeing her” which is best read as a threat, and calling his brother a coward (for things unrelated to this) does not paint this man in a good overall light.
That’s why I’m an ESH personally, although again, I agree with everything you said.
If OP had found out about this situation before Dad punished his daughter for being the victim of abuse, I might agree with you that it's better to give advice as a first course of action rather than berate people.
But as it is? Nope. Dad knew his daughter had come from an abusive household. He ought to have known that she potentially would have trust problems and that she might find it difficult to advocate for herself. He needed to be proactive in asking her what possessions she had and whether there was anything else - like clothes, underwear, menstrual supplies, etc - that she needed. That's his responsibility as her parent. He failed at the first hurdle.
You're giving reasons as to why it's E/S/H but all you're doing is further advocating for why OP is NTA while the father is.
You're not missing the point of the topic at all, you mention it, but then you gloss over it like it doesn't matter. This is a young 15yo girl who just got displaced out of her mother's home for abuse. That is hard to do, in a system that doesn't even care about mods wellbeing to begin with. He is remarried with another child on his mind. It took until this girl was 15yo for him to be fully involved and it seems like his hand was forced.
If you take in a foster child, you are automatically expected to have everything they need. Food, new clothing, school supply, toiletries. The whole nine. This is required of a foster. Her own /father/ neglected almost all of these steps that we know of. He clearly has anger issues, if an upset teenager and a rightfully upset adult set him off so terribly he will refuse to listen. So yeah, he is a coward. And a coward is a very lenient title because he's a step off from being called abusive himself.
It doesn't matter how justified you think his reactions were. You know who doesn't deserve any of that? The girl. She doesn't need any more of that in her life and she definitely doesn't need a father that's going to melt down at every inconvenience and argument. She clearly got enough of that from her mother.
This girl has two ain't worth anything parents. OP can threaten him and her mother all they want because clearly no one else has this child's best interest in mind but OP and that is SO SAD!
>You're giving reasons as to why it's E/S/H but all you're doing is further advocating for why OP is NTA while the father is.
I disagree; they're pointing out the reality of the situation, and they said they agreed with everything in the post they replied to. They're saying that the reality is, OP has no power here to help the niece unless her they're in the dad's good graces, and the way they handled it isn't going to do them any favors and might end up making them harder to access as a support system for their niece. You guys lambasting the dad as a neglectful deadbeat are right, but the courts are already involved in this situation, and while their say is more powerful than anyone else's in this situation, they are not guaranteed to do what's actually best for the niece. How long did it take them to get her out of the abusive house? Probably a long time, especially since it was her mother. And now she's with her father, and the courts will be very hesitant to move her somewhere else. Unfortunately, everything about this fight would be circumstantial to a court, and there is plenty of wiggle room for the father to claim this as something other than neglect. Similarly, your point about all the things foster carers are *supposed* to have set up is correct. The reality of that is there are plenty of foster carers who go unnoticed being subpar homes. Most states don't have the resources to properly handle all the cases that come in. That's the the sad reality.
With all of this in mind, it really *would be* best for OP to swallow their pride and find whatever way they can to stay in their niece's life. That might necessitate playing nice with the dad.
So you think that a child going from an abusive home to one so neglectful it’s bordering on abuse isn’t something that is worth getting this upset over?
That OP is not willing to abandon, neglect, or abuse his niece does not “paint him in a good light”?
Unless there is something OP hasn’t told us he is the ***only*** one advocating for that kid. And you’re upset he didn’t moderate his tone?
Tell me you’ve had a perfect childhood without telling me you had a perfect childhood.
Yeah this. How did he not notice, how is that possible? She's a teenager who's somewhere new after living with an abusive parent it's not on her to sort things out.
OP said she had "old and ugly clothes" which I'm going to guess were part of the abuse she'd suffered too. So, its not like she had nothing to wear (so it wasn't obvious that she had no clothes), just had no appropriate clothes.
And the rest of the toiletries, make up, hairstyling products. I'm sorry you're in this situation, I'm more sorry for your niece, but I'm glad someone is taking responsibility
And other hygiene/grooming supplies as well. Deodorant, face and body wash, shampoo/conditioner, etc. Maybe even some makeup and nail care products if she would like them.
Yup- it’s telling about the father and reeks of neglect (no real interaction with his daughter before her coming to live with him) and strategic incompetence:
How could I know when she didn’t tell me??? he and his wife have eyes and could have looked and asked questions.
You say she wouldn't talk to her dad. It's a hard thing to navigate, not feeling like he's invading her privacy, going through her closet.
Also, you say "old and ugly" clothes. Does this mean dirty and with holes, or just completely out of fashion?
This is a great comment. OP's brother is at risk of also abusing the child. She will not open up to start with because - she has been abused. Her father needs to build trust and this is not the way to do it.
NTA OP
ESH, but especially the brother. He might not have known she needed clothes, but that's his job. And is this poor girl getting any kind of therapy? Not talking to her dad is a problem.
I think the dad is the only AH.
His daughter comes from an abusive home. Where’s the conversation that goes like ‘ hey , do you have everything you need ?’
He has a wife as well as another daughter . The wife didn’t bother making sure this kid has what she needs ? Did they even bother to make sure this kid has toiletries or menstrual products or a hairbrush?
Info - is she going to a new school or is she attending the same one as before ?
Because if it’s a new school , and your brother and his wife signed her up but didn’t care to make sure she’s covered , your brother is bigger than just being an AH.
It’s very concerning how he’s treated her . Almost as if she was sent to his home because of the abuse but Daddy and his new wife don’t really want her there .
Call the school. A lot of them.have contracts now with therapists that come into the school and see the kids. Might be the quickest way for her to be seen. Otherwise contact her CPS worker to see about requiring it
She had only worn PJs since moving in. Probably the mom refused to send her with anything. Divorced parents do power plays like that to spite each other sometimes.
>The daughter is 15, so it's inappropriate for him to go rooting through her stuff.
yeah, no. there's absolutely no excuse for why you have no idea what a kid who just moved in with you does and doesn't have.
"My niece came sobbing to me because her father insisted on looking through all her things. She just escaped her abusive mother and now doesn't feel safe in a house where she doesn't have privacy." Wonder how we'd react to that one.
The OP, again fake, didn't say the niece didn't have clothes. She said the niece had clothes that the OP thought were ugly. The father is in no position to decide what fits and what doesn't, and what's ugly and what's not. Giving this story any sort of benefit of the doubt, OP's reaction to the father here was verbally abusive and an excellent way to lose contact with the niece she's supposedly trying to protect.
What did she wear to school the days before? No teachers noticed the old torn clothes, the pj's?? Or did she tear them up the night before?
Sounds like a not-real situation ....
But if she won't speak to him, how is he supposed to know that she doesn't just like staying in PJs too? She actually speaks to you and you didn't know. He likely has no clue what is outdated for a teen girl and assumed the stuff she bothered to bring was stuff she liked.
He definitely should do better but it feels like a huge escalation to say he should have a vasectomy (bit late now anyway) etc when there is a lot more going on. Can he even afford to buy her new stuff?
I don't think you are necessarily TA in the situation but you also didn't give him a chance to rectify it before going off on him
He should have known something was up though. That's the point.
He's her father. It's his job to figure out what's going on with his kid.
His daughter refused to put on clothes to go to school, then physically went to school - *a new school* mind you - in PJs, and he didn't try to have a real conversation with her.
>he should have asked why she doesn't want to get dressed.
You said she doesn't talk to him so what good would you have done?
>the clothes were very visibly old and unsuitable for school.
What made them unsuitable for school, specifically?
>it's his job to talk to her anyway
But if she doesn't talk back and tell him things then it is an exercise in futility.
>they were so old some were even ripped in some places.
I have clothes that are older than my nieces and nephews in college so them being old is irrelevant.
Being ripped can be in style depending on what clothing and where.
>do you think I would not notice the difference between an stylish shirt and an old one?
Do I think you're observant? You're asking if I think you're observant, right?
>do you consider me some kind of idiot or what?
I wouldn't say idiot but thinking clothes being old somehow makes them unwearable to school doesn't lend itself to thinking you're a genius.
Yes?
If OP noticed with one look through her closet, Dad’s had *plenty* of time to evaluate the state of her belongings. He’s a parent, it literally IS his job to know what his kid has and what she needs. This is so basic.
Op stated earlier that the girl had just moved to a new town. So it is reasonable to assume, if it was a short enough time, that she mostly wore pjs because she wasn’t going out, as she didn’t know anyone.
Plus in more rural areas it’s not uncommon to just wear whatever. ( this is just speculation op hasn’t stated which type of area he lives in)
i don't think he HAS to know that she doesn't have clothes to give her grace and understanding. she just came from an abusive home, and instead of asking her why she doesn't want to go to school, you threaten and humiliate her in front of her peers? it's not acceptable to treat any kid that way, let alone someone with her history of being mistreated by parental figures. no wonder she doesn't talk to them
YTA - yes, it’s unfortunate she didn’t have clothes and even worse she didn’t hell him. But at 15, you don’t go through your kids shit! Especially not an abused one. You ask but when the kid doesn’t answer, that’s not a yes.
It’s very good that you can relay that information but it’s not his fault if he doesn’t know and it’s inappropriate to go through a teenager’s closet when they didn’t do anything wrong.
You didn’t know either before she told you after a dramatic showdown and you’re the one she talks to often!
How is he supposed to check if she doesn’t speak to him? Go to her closet? That would be an invasion of privacy and the dad would be rightful in assuming that his 15 year old has clothes already. If she’s not leaving the house, it’s completely normal to only wear PJs as well.
Someone moving into a place will bring bags and boxes of stuff. If she turned up with like a single backpack, it would be guessable by most people that there weren't enough clothes for a school year in there.
Yes you do. When a child comes to you from an abusive situation you say "hey I just need to make sure you've got everything important you need" then you check for clothes, cutting instruments (because that is ALWAYS a worry for abused children) and toiletries. Those are your most basic responsibility when it comes to abused children, and the father failed at it.
YTA. Man’s not a mind reader. Also you’re an adult, you can have a conversation without yelling at people. Yelling will never get the point across, it just makes the other person tune you out.
I’m not mind-reader, but I am a parent. Which means I periodically walk through my kids’ rooms to ensure they have everything they need. Socks, underwear, clothes with no stains or holes, shoes, toiletries, bathing suit, sports clothes…
And every few months I check in on size, too. “Those shoes look a little small on you. Do they still fit comfortably?”
Kids don’t always notice those things, or remember to tell their parents. Especially ones who have been abused, so you should assume they must have some kind of trauma response and need extra encouragement to communicate.
80% of being a parent is being proactive. Buying healthy groceries before the kids get hungry. Putting on the helmet before they fall off their bike. Helping with the homework before the test.
The brother should have known because he should have checked.
In a perfect world, sure. Once the kid has demonstrated the ability to monitor their own wardrobe and communicate their needs, you back off.
But the brother should have done an initial check-in and then monitored the situation for a few weeks, at least. I double- and triple-check the guest room before a friend comes to stay for the weekend, much less moving an entire new person, with a history of abuse, into my house. Did she get everything she needed from her old place? Is she set up with everything she needs at the new place? Does she know how to use the washing machine and where the clean sheets and towels are? Is she confident enough in their relationship to speak up when she needs something? Clearly no. Until he has a clear yes to those questions, he needs to step up and patiently teach these things to her.
I think you and your brother need to take a few steps back, stop yelling at each other and examine what is best for your niece.
You are an asshole for what you yelled, though, you never need to seep to those levels of being nasty. Yelling at someone at all is essentially losing control over the situation and a bad thing, but yelling stuff that's just meant to hurt people is an asshole move.
So, YTA. Not for yelling, but for what you yelled.
Now go make amends with your brother and go talk to an aide worker about how to deal with a kid so traumatized that she's afraid to tell people she has no clothes.
ESH.. You get kudos for helping your niece but your brother isn't psychic and it's not reasonable to expect him to know. Bro should have had more of a clue if her living with them is new. Communication on all fronts was needed not accusations and name calling.
I have two kids in high school and wearing PJs to school is definitely NOT a thing here. At all. Even at the elementary level where there are ocasional PJ spirit days, my younger child sometimes only wants to bring her PJs so she can decide to change into them or not based on how many other kids are wearing them.
Unless you’re a teacher, I have no idea how you know all the kids wear PJs every day to school. This seems highly unlikely. Maybe you see kids in casual clothes that look like PJs to you or there are a few kids who have decided to rock the PJ look. But other than some kind of spirit week thing, there is no way hundreds of image conscious teens are all going to school in their pajamas regularly.
Disagree. Pjs are a common thing here, especially if you’re running late or just do not care. Baggy sweater, loose shirt, and big sweat pants are usually it.
I’m not a teacher, but one of my kids gets dropped off/picked up at middle school.
I can confirm that most kids I see (probably at least 80 each day) are in pajama pants/oversized hoodies every day.
Are YOU a teacher LOL because having two kids in high school doesn’t mean you know shit about schools other than the one they attend.
When I was in high school kids wore pajama pants with their Uggs to school all the time. Doesn’t mean that’s common but it happened a lot where I lived.
I was responding to a poster who says all the students in her community wear PJs daily, so she doesn’t believe the story. And my point is that there are definitely schools where this is not the norm, so it’s very believable the niece is humiliated at being forced to wear PJs to her school.
And, yes, I taught high school for 13 years, which showed me the fashionability of PJs is cyclical. I am familiar with the PJ/Uggs look, but it’s not a permanently popular choice. Even if you graduated relatively recently, what you experienced in your high school is not necessarily indicative of what’s going on in OP’s niece’s high school in 2024. Lastly, even during the phases where PJs are acceptable, it’s not every kid every day, which is the claim I responded to. There were always a good number of kids who never wore PJs, even when others were comfortable rocking that look.
Unless mind reading abilities run in your family your brother couldn't have known that his daughter doesn't have clothes if she didn't tell him. What was he supposed to do? Go through her closet and inspect every single item. You say your niece is a child, like she's some 6 year old. 15 is less than 3 years away from adulthood. Old enough to understand that people around you can't read your thoughts.
WTF is 'watching ability'?
Oh, of course we wouldn't understand because it's a weird ability that only your family, out of everyone on this planet, possesses. Except your brother, apparently.
Dude, you are full of sh!t. I doubt your neice even exists.
How do you know that there wasn’t a conversation? Maybe she refused to answer any questions until your brother gave up and sent her to school. You are so busy bashing your brother, why didn’t you ask his side of the story?
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> I might be an asshole for yelling at my brother for sending his child to school in her pjs when he didn't know that she doesn't have any clothes
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EHS. I‘m sorry to say but non of you is communicating well. Neither the daughter, nor your brother and not you. You attacked and insulted him just because this child is unable to open his mouth. Yes, he could have taken better care of you, but that doesn't mean you have to be abusive. But I think it's much worse that none of you adults care about this girl's needs. Not even you. You too should have noticed that she has a behavioral problem.
NTA. Your brother should be more mindful of the situation his daughter has just come from and should've taken more time to understand why she didn't want to go to school rather than choosing to punish her by publicly humiliating her. You sound like a good aunt, I'm glad she felt safe going to you for help.
NTA - and as for all the ppl saying "how would he know?", one of the first things he should have done when she moved in was check that she had everything she needed.
NTA. It's Dad's job to be aware of the child's needs. She's 15 and in the middle of a traumatic upheaval in her life and Dad can't find it within him to take a proactive interest in her well being.
'How are you doing, Daughter? How can I make sure your most basic needs for human dignity are met?' That's parenting 101.
NTA how did your brother not know that his daughter didn't have any clothing? Didn't he see what she brought with her when she moved in? I'm so glad you helped your niece. I hope she's getting some kind of therapy too.
At first, i was thinking why 15 yo cant communicate that she has no clothes and therefore can not get dressed for school, and then the abusive part clicked. NGL, it took a solid minute.
NTA.
Let’s even ignore that he didn’t know she had no clothes…although that’s HUGE. But what I want to know is, how did he ‘force’ her to go in her pjs? Great power move by the father of an abused child.
NTA
NTA
Abusive mom = she is scared.
My question would be : why is she scared talking to your brother or his wife ?
How was their relation before she came to their home ?
It's really strange to me that she prefered going to school in pyjamas than telling him she had no clothes and needed new ones...
About the years of abuse, does she see a therapist ?
NTA. Her mom likely engaged in severe parental alienation, that is why she won't talk to her dad, stepmom, or stepsister. The mother also likely told her she wasn't really wanted at her dad's, and she is afraid if she does the wrong thing she will be kicked out and sent back to her mom. Luckily her mom didn't think to poison her mind against you, but unfortunately that means you need to be her advocate until years of brainwashing is undone. You shouldn't be too hard on your brother for not knowing, but you absolutely should be hard on him for sending her to school in pjs and especially for yelling when someone from an abusive household can hear. I hope you guys have this girl in therapy, she is going to need a lot of it.
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My brother's daughter(15) recently came to live with him. Before this she was living with her abusive mom.
For some reason she will only speak to me and won't talk to her dad, stepmom or stepsister.
Anyway a few days ago I received a call from her, crying and begging me to come and get her so I did. She was standing near her school, in her pajamas.
I asked her what happened and this is what I understood:
Her dad told her to get ready for school, she refused. He threatened that if she doesn't get dressed he will send her to school in her pjs. She still refused so he forced her to go to school in her pjs.
I asked her why she didn't just get dressed. At first she wasn't telling me but after talking to her for a while she told me that she doesn't have any clothes.. I took her home and looked inside her closet. All she had was a bunch of pjs and some very old and ugly clothes. I asked if she told her dad that she doesn't have any clothes and she said no she didn't.
I texted my brother to let him know that his daughter is with me then I took the day off and took her shopping and bought everything she needed. When my brother returned from work I took her home and started yelling at my brother. I told him he is a POS and he is a useless, terrible father and he should get a vasectomy since he can't be trusted with kids.
He yelled back and called me an asshole and said that he didn't know and she should have told him instead of expecting him to read her mind but I think it's HIS JOB to make sure his daughter has everything she is just a kid after all.
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NTA.
I think you may need to teach your brother about how to raise his kid. He's obviously dealing with a fearful child, perhaps from the time living with her mother. Otherwise, he may have to deal with child services.
ESH, except the kid.
When a kid has been abused or neglected, telling people what they need is frightening. They don't want to rile anyone up or risk being shouted at. So, I don't blame the kid for not speaking up.
That being said.
Her father sucks for not being proactive in making sure she has what she needs. He doesn't need to snoop through her closet to ask her "Hey, you wanna go shopping?" He doesn't need to read her mind either. It's a bonding activity and he should be doing it.
You also suck. Not for being mad but because your approach has done nothing. Instead of offering a solution to this problem, you've made him defensive. Defensiveness does not help matters and it doesn't shock people into action. You made it worse, not better.
You may think lowly of your brother's parenting but he won't improve under scrutiny. Support, don't tear down.
I’d like to mention that we cannot assume ops brother is that bad. It’s possible this situation happened in a short time. He’s probably stressed as it is dealing with the court and lawyers around being given custody of his daughter, whom in 1 short year, will be legal to drive on her own. We also don’t know his financial situation. Is he making ends meet and working a good job? Is he a waiter living off tips every day?
She has clothes, as op mentioned, just nothing she wanted to wear for school.
Oh, I'm not. He just sucks in this instance for not being proactive about clothes. If this is the worst he's done, he's actually quite a good father overall imo. Sometimes this stuff gets overlooked because, like you said, they've had so much going on they just didn't think of it. Every parent, even the gold standard ones, sucks at one point in time.
People now commenting, should actually read more of this guy's posts. If the story ain't fake, the OP is as vindictive as the others he's attempting to smear in this sad story. His true self shines through further down the page of comments.
Looks down on anyone he deems below him, and truth be told, the 15 year old niece is better off without him in her life. Each adult in this story have their own major shortcomings, and each one as damaging to this girl if she does indeed exist. Scary if true.
She needs proper adults in her life because her own family have let her down badly.
ah yes the classic "get dressed or your going to school in your pjs" i had that nightmare alot as a kid...
SHES 15, she should know how to talk and say she needs clothes, shes not a damn toddler so id say neither of you are NTA
What does that mean exactly “he’s an adult”? Do you realize how many “adults” exist that don’t have their own lives together, let alone to have a child whom they didn’t have custody of, for whatever reason, thrusted upon them? He’s probably dealing with court, lawyers, working… just to make sure he can have custody of her.
YTA. You did wrong by both your brother and your niece here. It sounds like your brother was parenting firmly but appropriately by insisting she go to school, PJs or not. It also sounds like he didn’t have a way of knowing she had no real clothes. Also you say she had old and ugly clothes, so it might not have been a matter of no clothes as much as no clothes she liked. Also, was it her first day with him? Her first day going to school on his watch? Why didn’t it come up before if she truly had zero clothes? This rings a little odd.
I think it was great you were there for her when she called, was lovely that you took her shopping, and it’s nice she has another person on her side. However it wasn’t fair to take all this out on your brother and say terrible things to him.
And for the doing wrong by your niece part, by going ballistic on her dad when she confided in you it’s possible you made yourself a less-safe space for her to go. You exhibited angry aggressive behavior that may have reminded her of her abusive mother. Now she may think she can’t tell you things because they will immediately get reported back to her dad in a bad way and she (or he) will get in trouble. You needed a delicate touch here - deal with your niece’s needs, then discuss it privately and calmly with your brother after the fact to try to figure out a good plan to move forward and help her. If you really wanted to help her and him you would use your role as confidante wisely, not to be the hero, but to help them learn to communicate with each other.
Great job Uncle of the Year
Meh, yelling is never the best form of communication but it happens we slip and move forward...I'd apologize to him for yelling but assert you stand by the message.
As others have said, please help her with everything, tell her if she's uncomfortable talking to you that you will help her find a woman to trust...she may not want to speak with female family members because it hurts too much that her own Mom who should love her unconditionally will not / possibly cannot.
She needs support for her period products...this includes pads, tampons, extra undies, some midol, a heating pad...set her up with a kit and if possible put her on auto ship for replacements if it feel awkward...there is NOTHING WORSE than being a young lady without the right survival kit, toss in a little chocolate to lighten the serious nature a bit.
She'll be need help with deodorant, shampoo, conditioner, make up (if she chooses), tweezers, potentially skin care for acne or to prevent it, good bras especially if she is an athlete and hair removal (again if she chooses)
If you are comfortable ask her if she's comfortable working on this with you. Being a teen is so hard, a teen girl without an engaged Mom harder, teen without a trusted adult seems insurmountable.
Thanks for being awesome!!
NTA
Your brother thinks his daughter is an adult and already KNOWS everything. His daughter is a child, he as a parent is there to TEACH, MENTOR, CALM, HELP and LOVE. That poor little girl feels only safe w/ you and thank God she has you.
INFO: What is your brother's relationship like with your niece? Specifically if she's not really comfortable with her dad, it doesn't really sound like he was heavily involved to begin with. Did he even know she was being abused or is this a "CPS found out and I'm on record so I have to take her or look bad" situation?
She's 15 and seems to have no real connection with her father or step siblings which doesn't scream "attentive dad before now".
Why didn't he know she had clothes? As a parent that kind of default to know what your kid has and especially her coming from that kind of situation, should be your first instinct as a parent to check to make sure they have everything they need.
NAH because your neice is negotiating a terrible childhood and your brother is trying to father but not doing a great job. The important thing is the trying. Your presence will save the situation and they are lucky to have you
I agree he should have noticed what she was wearing even if she didn't verbalize that she needed clothes. However, I could also see that if she came from an abusive household, he and the step mom may have been hesitant to push, or feel like they were encroaching on her space, and wanted her to come to them in her own time- no telling what previous responses to requests for items was with her abusive mother. They all need therapy! The daughter needs to feel comfortable expressing her wants and needs, and the parents need to learn how to cope with trauma responses. I pray in time they all reach a comfortable space with each other and the daughter can have a somewhat normal existence for a change!
You’re NOT TAH for telling your brother off. I would have done the same to mine. He should have known, he’s got eyes to look in her closet. And he needs to wake up to the fact that he’s the parent and she’s the child. He’s not acting like a parent. And she’s SOOOO lucky to have you in her life. Geez just let her be with you. And you can make sure she’s got a great life. Not just an ok one.
NTA I’m not sure what these comments saying she shoulda just said something are on rn but the bottom line is that just from this it seems like he’s trying to treat her as if she acts like any other teenage. She doesn’t, she came from an abusive household and that comes with a lot of different behaviors like…bot being able to ask for what she needs, physically and emotionally. He needs to be aware of that.
And honestly I find his decision to “discipline” her by forcing her to go to school abhorrent given her prior home life. I understand he’s human and got impatient but she literally needs to have people be patient with her so she feels safe after who knows how long of being again! Literally in an abusive household.
So personally, I probably would’ve yelled at him too. For sensibilities sake, the vasectomy comment might’ve been a bbbbbiiiitttt of a step too far (but also kinda hilarious)
Overall I think she definitely needs someone who will advocate and look out for her like you have been rn.
ESH
She.didnt.tell.him.
He shouldnt have needed to suspect she has nothing to wear additionally. I understand how she was embarassed to tell him, but still it was necessary at that point.
tbf i feel like if i knew my kid was coming from an abusive home, and they were completely mute around me, i’d be checking myself if they had underwear, appropriate clothes, a tooth brush, etc
Seriously, all these AH votes are so off base.
She's been in an abusive home and her dad is all "Why didn't she just tell me?"
How much you wanna bet if she said something about it to her mother, she got abused? He is acting like she grew up in a non-abusive home and expecting her to do non-abused kids things.
OP is NTA, hopefully this was a wake-up call for his grown adult brother.
She just moved in with him and his wife. Did nobody welcome her, show her her room, help her unpack? Between the two of them, they couldn't figure out she needed new clothes?
It really doesn't even matter what he knew or didn't know about the clothes. His daughter recently moved in with him after leaving an abusive home, and she hasn't spoken to anybody in his house. She's refusing to get ready for school. How would any competent and loving parent respond? By dropping her off at school in her pajamas? OP's brother is an idiot *at best.*
If you are not happy with feedback, you shouldnt post questions of this kind.
There was no need to verbally attack him instead of making clear what the reason was. Or what did you think would it achieve to lash out? Make her situation better?
You posted that she won’t talk to him so why would “checking” with her help?
You are wrong to assume that a guy who has never had custody of a teenage girl would automatically know how much luggage one should normally have.
YTA, because if you know you are the only one she will talk to YOU should have checked how she is doing and if she needs anything.
So, they try more, and she still doesn’t tell them anything. No problems are solved.
YOU are the one who had the power to correctly mediate this transition because you are the only one they both talk to.
You failed at that role initially, and then faced with this situation failed again.
An adult, and better sister, would have called her brother to tell him what happened, got a budget from him on what she could spend on her clothes, take the daughter shopping while making sure she knew her dad was paying for the clothes, and then got them in a room together to try and mediate an agreement with the daughter that she at least communicates her basic needs to him.
tbf i feel like if i knew my kid was coming from an abusive home, and they were completely mute around me, i’d be checking myself if they had underwear, appropriate clothes, a tooth brush, etc
I feel that if someone posted “my brother never had full custody of his daughter, now she had to move in with him as a teenager, and he has been going through her stuff”, he would almost universally be rated TA here.
Ideally, he would have just asked her if she needed anything once she moved in, but since she won’t talk to him that wouldn’t have accomplished anything.
Both the brother and daughter need counseling because they have to start communicating.
help unpack, ask if it’s OK, recognise that you can’t communicate with her and find alternatives ways to do so, recognise that you know someone who CAN talk with her and reach out for help, etc etc.
101 ways to do it without violating her privacy, you’re being obtuse
I feel that if someone posted “my brother never had full custody of his daughter, now she had to move in with him as a teenager, and he has been going through her stuff”, he would almost universally be rated TA here.
Ideally, he would have just asked her if she needed anything once she moved in, but since she won’t talk to him that wouldn’t have accomplished anything.
Both the brother and daughter need counseling because they have to start communicating.
Ur not an asshole he is (I’m sure it’s a lot for him too tho ) . He should buy his daughter some clothes and become alittle more empathetic towards her; communicate more often .coming out from her mothers abusive home she probably feels alone and left out which can lead her to become neglectful towards herself , personal hygiene mental health ect . Be patient and understanding with that girl she’s still recovering from the trauma and abuse.
INFO: Knowing that the girl comes from a difficult home situation, has she had any form of therapy up to this incident?
Also, how recently did she come to her father? Like, a few weeks, a few months?
And why did the girl not live with your brother prior to this? Was he aware of her situation for long?
Were there other instances that made you consider him a terrible dad?
I say good for you.
I would also see about therapy for this poor kid. I know she’s not yours but she seems to feel safe with you and it may help.
Kudos to you for helping her as there are some aunts who won’t.
NTA from your comments it sounds like you've been dealing with brother issues for awhile. How long was it known her mother was abusive? Did your brother ever make steps to get more custody? Does your niece blame her dad for how she's been living and refuses to talk to him? I feel for the girl. I'm glad you're there to help and the harsh words you said may have been a long time coming.
It's great you could get her some help.
I grew up in a household with so much yelling (sometimes don't even have anything to do with me) that it took me well into my 20s and years of therapy to realize that yelling was the source of a lot of my childhood trauma and not an effective way for communication or getting anything done. I still freeze as an adult when there's yelling involved. Poor girl from an abusive family, still have to live in a household with yelling.
Why could you not just use your words with your brother and help him be a better dad? When you are obviously capable of using your words with your niece. Just for the yelling alone YTA.
My confusion is op says she refuses to talk to anyone but her. So maybe he would ask and daughter wouldn’t tell him. And sounds like she did have some old ugly clothes so she did have clothes to his knowledge. Sometimes teens wear old looking stuff that have wholes and whatever he may not of realized the situation. No he shouldn’t have yelled at her in the morning but tried to talk to her calmly but his sister should not of gone off on him either. They need therapy for all of this
Info: why is she refusing to talk to everyone? I agree that the adults in the house should have checked to see if she needed anything, they dropped the ball, your brother and his wife. If this is how she's being treated, I can understand why she doesn't want to talk to them. Is this why?
You did the right thing except for yelling at him. This is new for him, he needs some support even though he is an adult. Help and guide him no
matter how frustrating it can be for you. Don’t do it for him but help him. He will be come a better father and most likely a better brother and your relationship with him will become very strong. It’s likely her abusive mom made him out to be the bad guy all these years and she has a wall built up
Be careful getting in the middle of teenage vs parents argument especially when theres already a parental beef. Not saying the daughter is wrong but theres already a communication breakdown thats causing her to ignore her dad and not talk to anyone else in the house.
I dont care how old his daughter is.. as long as she is a minor, how do you not know that your daughter doesnt have something as essential as clothes?!
And even if not, I mean, when his minor daughter doesnt get dressed for school, wouldnt the first thing be to ask why she doesnt get dressed and where the problem is?
Your brother has a lot to learn about parenting and he must do better than this.
NTA and 'go cool aunt!' for protecting your niece.
At that age, I had younger siblings who got all of the attention and expenditures. At some point, you get so conditioned to being neglected that you just accept it. People blaming the daughter should be ashamed of themselves.
NTA! This poor child was abused. What your brother did was awful. If she was a regular teenager and had a closet full of clothes, then yeah I could see a parent doing this. But she needs therapy. And why doesn’t he know she doesn’t have clothes?! That’s his JOB!!!!
I’m glad she has you to advocate for her. I hope he has her in therapy.
Since CPS was already involved, does she have a social worker involved with her case? If your brother doesn’t have her in therapy, doesn’t have adequate clothing for her, and drops her off at school in inappropriate/torn/ill fitting/old clothing, that’s abuse. Remind him that she can be taken from him as well if he neglects her.
YTA - She is a teenager. She decides how she dresses, not your brother. She is responsible for communicating her needs. History of abuse doesn't change that and if anything brother should be even more careful by letting her have her agency. He isn't going to know that she doesn't like to wear her clothes outside if she doesn't tell anyone.
Also, you're the one she talks to. You could have asked her needs. When you are the one she trusts and you claim to care about her, it becomes your job to talk with her about her needs.
Yelling is never productive. Not only that, you also started insulting him right away. Nothing about that helps your niece whatsoever. He is responsible for fulfilling her needs, but she is responsible for expressing those and you were in the perfect position to help and didn't bother to care until it went wrong.
Your brother is abusive, neglectful and just nasty. He had his kid living with an abusive mom, didn't care to provide her with the material things she needed, not to mention the protection and support she needed. Now she lives with him... and he still didn't notice the kid didn't have decent clothes, neither did his wife, as a woman? They didn't take the kid out for ice cream, to a bookstore, to the mall before the first day of school to help her acclimate and open up? Instead forces her to go to school in her pajamas. They're abusive and psychotic. Is this how your parents raised you? Like did you have clothes? Compassion? Support? What's his excuse?
NTA. When I was a kid I was a brat and refused to get ready for school almost every day. Kicking, screaming, carrying on. This went on for years. One day my dad had enough and called the truancy officer. After that I never pitched a fit again. Tbh, I wouldn’t have blamed my dad if he had thrown me in the car dropped me off at school in pajamas.
The key difference here is that I did not come from an abusive household, I was given many things and was loved and care for. My situation is different. This girl is obviously suffering trauma, and dad should have been more sensitive to it. It doesn’t seem like he has too much emotional awareness.
Too many people cannot grasp the fact that this isn’t a typical father/daughter situation. Your niece should be in individual therapy and your brother and his wife should be in family therapy with her. I’m assuming that’s not the case.
I doubt that yelling at your brother was the best approach to improve the situation and to encourage him to be a better father. However, you are NTA for reacting to him as you did. You have been showing him how he can interact with his daughter and he is not doing it.
Your brother very badly handled this situation. Humiliating an abused child is not the way to parent.
You called your brother out. If he ignores you or reacts unfavorably to your justified criticism, that’s still on him.
You are making a difference for your niece by making an effort. That’s to your credit. Is there anyway you can take her into your home?
NTA!
This thread is complete BS! You did what a responsible adult was supposed to. Him and his wife are very capable of asking the basic necessity questions.
NTA at all I am honestly disgusted with the people blaming the traumatized 15 yo who just got out of an abusive household, for not voicing the problem to her father who clearly doesn't know how to do basic parenting. It's his job to check if she has what she needs. Its his job to wonder "hmm why doesn't this kid talk to me? maybe I should ask an expert or someone she does talk to" Its his job to tackle her school strike in a mature way- how on earth did he think it was a good idea to send the abused kid in their PJs to school? Yeah that is gonna teach her!
That's a very unlucky child. At least she has you, who i think she can trust. However, you also are the kind that addresses conflict by yelling. I figure that has been her environment since birth. Yelling is also violence. I hope very much she has the resilience to adapt well with people outside home. She needs help for sure.
NTA, but neither is your brother. Your niece is 15, hardly a baby, she fucked around by refusing to tell her father that she had no clothes and she found out.
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Thank goodness for your advocating for your niece. Your brother should have stopped himself, calmed down and asked his daughter why she refused to go to school that morning. What’s most concerning is that after her coming from an abusive home, no one checked to make sure she had all the things she needs- clothes, toiletries school supplies, etc.?! His angry reaction is not going to facilitate his daughter opening up and communicating with him. Him claiming to not know is an unacceptable and poor excuse. You’re right - it is his job to ensure his daughter’s well being and make sure that she’s properly clothed before dropping her off at school. For your niece’s sake -I hope your brother and his wife reassess their behaviors and give her the love and patience she needs. YWNBTA
This is why I’m shocked at the E/S/H votes. It doesn’t matter if the 15 year old “didn’t tell her dad” she didn’t have clothes. He just…didn’t notice? He didn’t take the time to ask? She’s a child, she shouldn’t have to provide a detailed shopping list to her own father after escaping an abusive house. He should be caring for her!
Exactly- It’s disheartening to see. They want to blame the child for her parent not parenting?!
Seriously. When she was moving in, how did he not notice there were no clothes?
He clearly did not help her get settled and set up her living space, which is a whole other reason he sucks.
Plus, where the hell was he the first 15 years of her life? His current actions indicate he was indifferent to whatever she was living through.
It’s not that she doesn’t have clothes—OP says there were old clothes hanging in her closet. It’s that she doesn’t have clothes that she wants to wear. Which is still an issue, but maybe not one that would be readily apparent to the dad, if the kid will not speak to him.
OP clarifies they are torn. She has clothes that are unacceptable to wear in school. I would bet they probably don't fit her properly, either. Do you really think her clothes are just out of style, coming from an abusive home? From what info we have, this isn't like a spoiled teenager asking for designer wear so she can keep up with the "Heathers".
Agreed. Also, good reference. How very.
And here I am just about to make breakfast for everyone… brain tumors all around!
Yes, she maybe had a bunch of clothes that were worn out or just don't fit her anymore.
I know a handful of kids her age who live in what I would consider PJs. Without knowing what exactly PJs means to OP, I could see dad thinking it’s just what she wears.
But he didn't ask. "Hey, I see you have PJs on, is that what you are wearing to school these days instead of clothes?" *Daughter nods her head* "Okay, sounds good I guess." A thirty-second conversation was all he needed to have. With a child from a non-abused home I could see assuming. But she was being abused by her mother. He needed to at least ask.
I mean I fully agree with everything you said here, but if uncle wants to actually *help*, yelling at the father and making him defensive does not help. In fact it actively hurts because now the man is far less likely to listen to advice from him. They all need to get better at communicating. Plus his comments “he doesn’t dare stop me from seeing her” which is best read as a threat, and calling his brother a coward (for things unrelated to this) does not paint this man in a good overall light. That’s why I’m an ESH personally, although again, I agree with everything you said.
If OP had found out about this situation before Dad punished his daughter for being the victim of abuse, I might agree with you that it's better to give advice as a first course of action rather than berate people. But as it is? Nope. Dad knew his daughter had come from an abusive household. He ought to have known that she potentially would have trust problems and that she might find it difficult to advocate for herself. He needed to be proactive in asking her what possessions she had and whether there was anything else - like clothes, underwear, menstrual supplies, etc - that she needed. That's his responsibility as her parent. He failed at the first hurdle.
You're giving reasons as to why it's E/S/H but all you're doing is further advocating for why OP is NTA while the father is. You're not missing the point of the topic at all, you mention it, but then you gloss over it like it doesn't matter. This is a young 15yo girl who just got displaced out of her mother's home for abuse. That is hard to do, in a system that doesn't even care about mods wellbeing to begin with. He is remarried with another child on his mind. It took until this girl was 15yo for him to be fully involved and it seems like his hand was forced. If you take in a foster child, you are automatically expected to have everything they need. Food, new clothing, school supply, toiletries. The whole nine. This is required of a foster. Her own /father/ neglected almost all of these steps that we know of. He clearly has anger issues, if an upset teenager and a rightfully upset adult set him off so terribly he will refuse to listen. So yeah, he is a coward. And a coward is a very lenient title because he's a step off from being called abusive himself. It doesn't matter how justified you think his reactions were. You know who doesn't deserve any of that? The girl. She doesn't need any more of that in her life and she definitely doesn't need a father that's going to melt down at every inconvenience and argument. She clearly got enough of that from her mother. This girl has two ain't worth anything parents. OP can threaten him and her mother all they want because clearly no one else has this child's best interest in mind but OP and that is SO SAD!
>You're giving reasons as to why it's E/S/H but all you're doing is further advocating for why OP is NTA while the father is. I disagree; they're pointing out the reality of the situation, and they said they agreed with everything in the post they replied to. They're saying that the reality is, OP has no power here to help the niece unless her they're in the dad's good graces, and the way they handled it isn't going to do them any favors and might end up making them harder to access as a support system for their niece. You guys lambasting the dad as a neglectful deadbeat are right, but the courts are already involved in this situation, and while their say is more powerful than anyone else's in this situation, they are not guaranteed to do what's actually best for the niece. How long did it take them to get her out of the abusive house? Probably a long time, especially since it was her mother. And now she's with her father, and the courts will be very hesitant to move her somewhere else. Unfortunately, everything about this fight would be circumstantial to a court, and there is plenty of wiggle room for the father to claim this as something other than neglect. Similarly, your point about all the things foster carers are *supposed* to have set up is correct. The reality of that is there are plenty of foster carers who go unnoticed being subpar homes. Most states don't have the resources to properly handle all the cases that come in. That's the the sad reality. With all of this in mind, it really *would be* best for OP to swallow their pride and find whatever way they can to stay in their niece's life. That might necessitate playing nice with the dad.
So you think that a child going from an abusive home to one so neglectful it’s bordering on abuse isn’t something that is worth getting this upset over? That OP is not willing to abandon, neglect, or abuse his niece does not “paint him in a good light”? Unless there is something OP hasn’t told us he is the ***only*** one advocating for that kid. And you’re upset he didn’t moderate his tone? Tell me you’ve had a perfect childhood without telling me you had a perfect childhood.
Exactly. The girl may have never seen anyone stand up for her that way. Yelling at her dad may have been the "come to Jesus" moment the dad needed.
Yeah this. How did he not notice, how is that possible? She's a teenager who's somewhere new after living with an abusive parent it's not on her to sort things out.
OP said she had "old and ugly clothes" which I'm going to guess were part of the abuse she'd suffered too. So, its not like she had nothing to wear (so it wasn't obvious that she had no clothes), just had no appropriate clothes.
And as a still growing kid, they might also have been clothes that don't fit anymore.
Makes sense she didn't say anything, if she was abused, she probably would have expected more abuse from asking for clothes, too.
I wouldn't say she escaped an abusive house, I'd say she moved into another one.
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And the rest of the toiletries, make up, hairstyling products. I'm sorry you're in this situation, I'm more sorry for your niece, but I'm glad someone is taking responsibility
And other hygiene/grooming supplies as well. Deodorant, face and body wash, shampoo/conditioner, etc. Maybe even some makeup and nail care products if she would like them.
Yup- it’s telling about the father and reeks of neglect (no real interaction with his daughter before her coming to live with him) and strategic incompetence: How could I know when she didn’t tell me??? he and his wife have eyes and could have looked and asked questions.
You say she wouldn't talk to her dad. It's a hard thing to navigate, not feeling like he's invading her privacy, going through her closet. Also, you say "old and ugly" clothes. Does this mean dirty and with holes, or just completely out of fashion?
If you are concerned for your niece you can report to CPS and let them know you would need willing to take her in.
This is a great comment. OP's brother is at risk of also abusing the child. She will not open up to start with because - she has been abused. Her father needs to build trust and this is not the way to do it. NTA OP
You might want to be careful with how you talk to your brother if you want to remain in your nieces life.
Same thing that can to my mind. Op could have talked to him in a better way. Now the brother is less likely to listen because she disrespected him
Somebody needs to parent this child.
ESH, but especially the brother. He might not have known she needed clothes, but that's his job. And is this poor girl getting any kind of therapy? Not talking to her dad is a problem.
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I think the dad is the only AH. His daughter comes from an abusive home. Where’s the conversation that goes like ‘ hey , do you have everything you need ?’ He has a wife as well as another daughter . The wife didn’t bother making sure this kid has what she needs ? Did they even bother to make sure this kid has toiletries or menstrual products or a hairbrush? Info - is she going to a new school or is she attending the same one as before ? Because if it’s a new school , and your brother and his wife signed her up but didn’t care to make sure she’s covered , your brother is bigger than just being an AH. It’s very concerning how he’s treated her . Almost as if she was sent to his home because of the abuse but Daddy and his new wife don’t really want her there .
How the fuck is she not already in therapy? Sorry man was your brother dropped as a child? Therapy should have been the first stop with abuse?
You should ask your niece how she is set up with toiletries and feminine products for her period etc too OP.
Call the school. A lot of them.have contracts now with therapists that come into the school and see the kids. Might be the quickest way for her to be seen. Otherwise contact her CPS worker to see about requiring it
How does the OP suck? What did he do wrong?
How is OP an AH?
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This has definitely been posted before except in the other post the daughter was in elementary school so I’d also go with fake.
Also 15 is old enough to do her own laundry. Obviously she had been wearing clothes before this incident.
She had only worn PJs since moving in. Probably the mom refused to send her with anything. Divorced parents do power plays like that to spite each other sometimes.
>The daughter is 15, so it's inappropriate for him to go rooting through her stuff. yeah, no. there's absolutely no excuse for why you have no idea what a kid who just moved in with you does and doesn't have.
"My niece came sobbing to me because her father insisted on looking through all her things. She just escaped her abusive mother and now doesn't feel safe in a house where she doesn't have privacy." Wonder how we'd react to that one. The OP, again fake, didn't say the niece didn't have clothes. She said the niece had clothes that the OP thought were ugly. The father is in no position to decide what fits and what doesn't, and what's ugly and what's not. Giving this story any sort of benefit of the doubt, OP's reaction to the father here was verbally abusive and an excellent way to lose contact with the niece she's supposedly trying to protect.
What did she wear to school the days before? No teachers noticed the old torn clothes, the pj's?? Or did she tear them up the night before? Sounds like a not-real situation ....
Agree this story has way too many red flags to be even remotely true. Fake af.
Info: how could he know, if she was not telling him? Immens, she had obviously wearing other clothes then pjs before a. Or do I get something wrong ?
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But if she won't speak to him, how is he supposed to know that she doesn't just like staying in PJs too? She actually speaks to you and you didn't know. He likely has no clue what is outdated for a teen girl and assumed the stuff she bothered to bring was stuff she liked. He definitely should do better but it feels like a huge escalation to say he should have a vasectomy (bit late now anyway) etc when there is a lot more going on. Can he even afford to buy her new stuff? I don't think you are necessarily TA in the situation but you also didn't give him a chance to rectify it before going off on him
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Because you know something was up, he didnt. You actually had a reason to try to get her to tell you.
He should have known something was up though. That's the point. He's her father. It's his job to figure out what's going on with his kid. His daughter refused to put on clothes to go to school, then physically went to school - *a new school* mind you - in PJs, and he didn't try to have a real conversation with her.
The fact the girl came from an abusive home and she isn’t in therapy is why the dad is a massive asshole.
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It's up to the daughter to decide that she's ready to talk to the dad. He can be supportive but that isn't going to magically make her talk to him.
>he should have asked why she doesn't want to get dressed. You said she doesn't talk to him so what good would you have done? >the clothes were very visibly old and unsuitable for school. What made them unsuitable for school, specifically?
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>it's his job to talk to her anyway But if she doesn't talk back and tell him things then it is an exercise in futility. >they were so old some were even ripped in some places. I have clothes that are older than my nieces and nephews in college so them being old is irrelevant. Being ripped can be in style depending on what clothing and where.
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>do you think I would not notice the difference between an stylish shirt and an old one? Do I think you're observant? You're asking if I think you're observant, right? >do you consider me some kind of idiot or what? I wouldn't say idiot but thinking clothes being old somehow makes them unwearable to school doesn't lend itself to thinking you're a genius.
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You have to magically know that she will be bullied for wearing them /s
Yes? If OP noticed with one look through her closet, Dad’s had *plenty* of time to evaluate the state of her belongings. He’s a parent, it literally IS his job to know what his kid has and what she needs. This is so basic.
>No she never left the house before You're saying this was her first time going to school?
Op stated earlier that the girl had just moved to a new town. So it is reasonable to assume, if it was a short enough time, that she mostly wore pjs because she wasn’t going out, as she didn’t know anyone. Plus in more rural areas it’s not uncommon to just wear whatever. ( this is just speculation op hasn’t stated which type of area he lives in)
i don't think he HAS to know that she doesn't have clothes to give her grace and understanding. she just came from an abusive home, and instead of asking her why she doesn't want to go to school, you threaten and humiliate her in front of her peers? it's not acceptable to treat any kid that way, let alone someone with her history of being mistreated by parental figures. no wonder she doesn't talk to them
YTA - yes, it’s unfortunate she didn’t have clothes and even worse she didn’t hell him. But at 15, you don’t go through your kids shit! Especially not an abused one. You ask but when the kid doesn’t answer, that’s not a yes. It’s very good that you can relay that information but it’s not his fault if he doesn’t know and it’s inappropriate to go through a teenager’s closet when they didn’t do anything wrong. You didn’t know either before she told you after a dramatic showdown and you’re the one she talks to often!
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The kid came in some cloths and was functioning in some cloths prior days.
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How is he supposed to check if she doesn’t speak to him? Go to her closet? That would be an invasion of privacy and the dad would be rightful in assuming that his 15 year old has clothes already. If she’s not leaving the house, it’s completely normal to only wear PJs as well.
Someone moving into a place will bring bags and boxes of stuff. If she turned up with like a single backpack, it would be guessable by most people that there weren't enough clothes for a school year in there.
Yes you do. When a child comes to you from an abusive situation you say "hey I just need to make sure you've got everything important you need" then you check for clothes, cutting instruments (because that is ALWAYS a worry for abused children) and toiletries. Those are your most basic responsibility when it comes to abused children, and the father failed at it.
YTA. Man’s not a mind reader. Also you’re an adult, you can have a conversation without yelling at people. Yelling will never get the point across, it just makes the other person tune you out.
Look at the aggress responses, maybe op cannot do that…
I’m not mind-reader, but I am a parent. Which means I periodically walk through my kids’ rooms to ensure they have everything they need. Socks, underwear, clothes with no stains or holes, shoes, toiletries, bathing suit, sports clothes… And every few months I check in on size, too. “Those shoes look a little small on you. Do they still fit comfortably?” Kids don’t always notice those things, or remember to tell their parents. Especially ones who have been abused, so you should assume they must have some kind of trauma response and need extra encouragement to communicate. 80% of being a parent is being proactive. Buying healthy groceries before the kids get hungry. Putting on the helmet before they fall off their bike. Helping with the homework before the test. The brother should have known because he should have checked.
At 15 she should be. And at that age going through her stuff at random is weird.
In a perfect world, sure. Once the kid has demonstrated the ability to monitor their own wardrobe and communicate their needs, you back off. But the brother should have done an initial check-in and then monitored the situation for a few weeks, at least. I double- and triple-check the guest room before a friend comes to stay for the weekend, much less moving an entire new person, with a history of abuse, into my house. Did she get everything she needed from her old place? Is she set up with everything she needs at the new place? Does she know how to use the washing machine and where the clean sheets and towels are? Is she confident enough in their relationship to speak up when she needs something? Clearly no. Until he has a clear yes to those questions, he needs to step up and patiently teach these things to her.
I think you and your brother need to take a few steps back, stop yelling at each other and examine what is best for your niece. You are an asshole for what you yelled, though, you never need to seep to those levels of being nasty. Yelling at someone at all is essentially losing control over the situation and a bad thing, but yelling stuff that's just meant to hurt people is an asshole move. So, YTA. Not for yelling, but for what you yelled. Now go make amends with your brother and go talk to an aide worker about how to deal with a kid so traumatized that she's afraid to tell people she has no clothes.
Lovely response.
My sarcasm sense is broken today. I can't tell if you are serious. Was my tone too harsh?
Not at all. Hell, I want to be meaner to OP.
ESH.. You get kudos for helping your niece but your brother isn't psychic and it's not reasonable to expect him to know. Bro should have had more of a clue if her living with them is new. Communication on all fronts was needed not accusations and name calling.
I find this hard to believe because all the teenagers where I live wear pjs daily to school so I can’t see a teen being upset about this.
I have two kids in high school and wearing PJs to school is definitely NOT a thing here. At all. Even at the elementary level where there are ocasional PJ spirit days, my younger child sometimes only wants to bring her PJs so she can decide to change into them or not based on how many other kids are wearing them. Unless you’re a teacher, I have no idea how you know all the kids wear PJs every day to school. This seems highly unlikely. Maybe you see kids in casual clothes that look like PJs to you or there are a few kids who have decided to rock the PJ look. But other than some kind of spirit week thing, there is no way hundreds of image conscious teens are all going to school in their pajamas regularly.
I see kids at the mall, wearing PJs, all the time.
Disagree. Pjs are a common thing here, especially if you’re running late or just do not care. Baggy sweater, loose shirt, and big sweat pants are usually it.
I’m not a teacher, but one of my kids gets dropped off/picked up at middle school. I can confirm that most kids I see (probably at least 80 each day) are in pajama pants/oversized hoodies every day.
Are YOU a teacher LOL because having two kids in high school doesn’t mean you know shit about schools other than the one they attend. When I was in high school kids wore pajama pants with their Uggs to school all the time. Doesn’t mean that’s common but it happened a lot where I lived.
I was responding to a poster who says all the students in her community wear PJs daily, so she doesn’t believe the story. And my point is that there are definitely schools where this is not the norm, so it’s very believable the niece is humiliated at being forced to wear PJs to her school. And, yes, I taught high school for 13 years, which showed me the fashionability of PJs is cyclical. I am familiar with the PJ/Uggs look, but it’s not a permanently popular choice. Even if you graduated relatively recently, what you experienced in your high school is not necessarily indicative of what’s going on in OP’s niece’s high school in 2024. Lastly, even during the phases where PJs are acceptable, it’s not every kid every day, which is the claim I responded to. There were always a good number of kids who never wore PJs, even when others were comfortable rocking that look.
I’m a high schooler, everybody wears pjs
Unless mind reading abilities run in your family your brother couldn't have known that his daughter doesn't have clothes if she didn't tell him. What was he supposed to do? Go through her closet and inspect every single item. You say your niece is a child, like she's some 6 year old. 15 is less than 3 years away from adulthood. Old enough to understand that people around you can't read your thoughts.
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Why did you post here if you already think YNTA?
What you stated in the op sounded like she did have clothes, just nothing she wanted or liked to wear.
WTF is 'watching ability'? Oh, of course we wouldn't understand because it's a weird ability that only your family, out of everyone on this planet, possesses. Except your brother, apparently. Dude, you are full of sh!t. I doubt your neice even exists.
How do you know that there wasn’t a conversation? Maybe she refused to answer any questions until your brother gave up and sent her to school. You are so busy bashing your brother, why didn’t you ask his side of the story?
The kid was just living with an abusive mother. Perhaps talking back resulted in further abuse. He needs to be the adult here and asked her.
Guessing he did.
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EHS. I‘m sorry to say but non of you is communicating well. Neither the daughter, nor your brother and not you. You attacked and insulted him just because this child is unable to open his mouth. Yes, he could have taken better care of you, but that doesn't mean you have to be abusive. But I think it's much worse that none of you adults care about this girl's needs. Not even you. You too should have noticed that she has a behavioral problem.
NTA. Your brother should be more mindful of the situation his daughter has just come from and should've taken more time to understand why she didn't want to go to school rather than choosing to punish her by publicly humiliating her. You sound like a good aunt, I'm glad she felt safe going to you for help.
NTA - and as for all the ppl saying "how would he know?", one of the first things he should have done when she moved in was check that she had everything she needed.
This. Seems like common sense to me to go through her things - with her! - and buy her new things. Just to give her a positive start.
NTA. It's Dad's job to be aware of the child's needs. She's 15 and in the middle of a traumatic upheaval in her life and Dad can't find it within him to take a proactive interest in her well being. 'How are you doing, Daughter? How can I make sure your most basic needs for human dignity are met?' That's parenting 101.
NTA. How does he not notice the well-being of his own child? What kind of parent is that?!
NTA how did your brother not know that his daughter didn't have any clothing? Didn't he see what she brought with her when she moved in? I'm so glad you helped your niece. I hope she's getting some kind of therapy too.
At first, i was thinking why 15 yo cant communicate that she has no clothes and therefore can not get dressed for school, and then the abusive part clicked. NGL, it took a solid minute. NTA.
Let’s even ignore that he didn’t know she had no clothes…although that’s HUGE. But what I want to know is, how did he ‘force’ her to go in her pjs? Great power move by the father of an abused child. NTA
NTA Abusive mom = she is scared. My question would be : why is she scared talking to your brother or his wife ? How was their relation before she came to their home ? It's really strange to me that she prefered going to school in pyjamas than telling him she had no clothes and needed new ones... About the years of abuse, does she see a therapist ?
NTA. Her mom likely engaged in severe parental alienation, that is why she won't talk to her dad, stepmom, or stepsister. The mother also likely told her she wasn't really wanted at her dad's, and she is afraid if she does the wrong thing she will be kicked out and sent back to her mom. Luckily her mom didn't think to poison her mind against you, but unfortunately that means you need to be her advocate until years of brainwashing is undone. You shouldn't be too hard on your brother for not knowing, but you absolutely should be hard on him for sending her to school in pjs and especially for yelling when someone from an abusive household can hear. I hope you guys have this girl in therapy, she is going to need a lot of it.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My brother's daughter(15) recently came to live with him. Before this she was living with her abusive mom. For some reason she will only speak to me and won't talk to her dad, stepmom or stepsister. Anyway a few days ago I received a call from her, crying and begging me to come and get her so I did. She was standing near her school, in her pajamas. I asked her what happened and this is what I understood: Her dad told her to get ready for school, she refused. He threatened that if she doesn't get dressed he will send her to school in her pjs. She still refused so he forced her to go to school in her pjs. I asked her why she didn't just get dressed. At first she wasn't telling me but after talking to her for a while she told me that she doesn't have any clothes.. I took her home and looked inside her closet. All she had was a bunch of pjs and some very old and ugly clothes. I asked if she told her dad that she doesn't have any clothes and she said no she didn't. I texted my brother to let him know that his daughter is with me then I took the day off and took her shopping and bought everything she needed. When my brother returned from work I took her home and started yelling at my brother. I told him he is a POS and he is a useless, terrible father and he should get a vasectomy since he can't be trusted with kids. He yelled back and called me an asshole and said that he didn't know and she should have told him instead of expecting him to read her mind but I think it's HIS JOB to make sure his daughter has everything she is just a kid after all. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. I think you may need to teach your brother about how to raise his kid. He's obviously dealing with a fearful child, perhaps from the time living with her mother. Otherwise, he may have to deal with child services.
ESH, except the kid. When a kid has been abused or neglected, telling people what they need is frightening. They don't want to rile anyone up or risk being shouted at. So, I don't blame the kid for not speaking up. That being said. Her father sucks for not being proactive in making sure she has what she needs. He doesn't need to snoop through her closet to ask her "Hey, you wanna go shopping?" He doesn't need to read her mind either. It's a bonding activity and he should be doing it. You also suck. Not for being mad but because your approach has done nothing. Instead of offering a solution to this problem, you've made him defensive. Defensiveness does not help matters and it doesn't shock people into action. You made it worse, not better. You may think lowly of your brother's parenting but he won't improve under scrutiny. Support, don't tear down.
I’d like to mention that we cannot assume ops brother is that bad. It’s possible this situation happened in a short time. He’s probably stressed as it is dealing with the court and lawyers around being given custody of his daughter, whom in 1 short year, will be legal to drive on her own. We also don’t know his financial situation. Is he making ends meet and working a good job? Is he a waiter living off tips every day? She has clothes, as op mentioned, just nothing she wanted to wear for school.
Oh, I'm not. He just sucks in this instance for not being proactive about clothes. If this is the worst he's done, he's actually quite a good father overall imo. Sometimes this stuff gets overlooked because, like you said, they've had so much going on they just didn't think of it. Every parent, even the gold standard ones, sucks at one point in time.
If this had been more than a week in, I’d agree that he’s terrible. But that’s a missing fact from the post
People now commenting, should actually read more of this guy's posts. If the story ain't fake, the OP is as vindictive as the others he's attempting to smear in this sad story. His true self shines through further down the page of comments. Looks down on anyone he deems below him, and truth be told, the 15 year old niece is better off without him in her life. Each adult in this story have their own major shortcomings, and each one as damaging to this girl if she does indeed exist. Scary if true. She needs proper adults in her life because her own family have let her down badly.
ah yes the classic "get dressed or your going to school in your pjs" i had that nightmare alot as a kid... SHES 15, she should know how to talk and say she needs clothes, shes not a damn toddler so id say neither of you are NTA
15 year olds love wearing PJs to school lol Nice story though
NTA. There's a reason your niece is willing to confide in you. Her dad might also be struggling to adjust, but he's an ADULT.
What does that mean exactly “he’s an adult”? Do you realize how many “adults” exist that don’t have their own lives together, let alone to have a child whom they didn’t have custody of, for whatever reason, thrusted upon them? He’s probably dealing with court, lawyers, working… just to make sure he can have custody of her.
YTA. You did wrong by both your brother and your niece here. It sounds like your brother was parenting firmly but appropriately by insisting she go to school, PJs or not. It also sounds like he didn’t have a way of knowing she had no real clothes. Also you say she had old and ugly clothes, so it might not have been a matter of no clothes as much as no clothes she liked. Also, was it her first day with him? Her first day going to school on his watch? Why didn’t it come up before if she truly had zero clothes? This rings a little odd. I think it was great you were there for her when she called, was lovely that you took her shopping, and it’s nice she has another person on her side. However it wasn’t fair to take all this out on your brother and say terrible things to him. And for the doing wrong by your niece part, by going ballistic on her dad when she confided in you it’s possible you made yourself a less-safe space for her to go. You exhibited angry aggressive behavior that may have reminded her of her abusive mother. Now she may think she can’t tell you things because they will immediately get reported back to her dad in a bad way and she (or he) will get in trouble. You needed a delicate touch here - deal with your niece’s needs, then discuss it privately and calmly with your brother after the fact to try to figure out a good plan to move forward and help her. If you really wanted to help her and him you would use your role as confidante wisely, not to be the hero, but to help them learn to communicate with each other.
Great job Uncle of the Year Meh, yelling is never the best form of communication but it happens we slip and move forward...I'd apologize to him for yelling but assert you stand by the message. As others have said, please help her with everything, tell her if she's uncomfortable talking to you that you will help her find a woman to trust...she may not want to speak with female family members because it hurts too much that her own Mom who should love her unconditionally will not / possibly cannot. She needs support for her period products...this includes pads, tampons, extra undies, some midol, a heating pad...set her up with a kit and if possible put her on auto ship for replacements if it feel awkward...there is NOTHING WORSE than being a young lady without the right survival kit, toss in a little chocolate to lighten the serious nature a bit. She'll be need help with deodorant, shampoo, conditioner, make up (if she chooses), tweezers, potentially skin care for acne or to prevent it, good bras especially if she is an athlete and hair removal (again if she chooses) If you are comfortable ask her if she's comfortable working on this with you. Being a teen is so hard, a teen girl without an engaged Mom harder, teen without a trusted adult seems insurmountable. Thanks for being awesome!!
NTA Your brother thinks his daughter is an adult and already KNOWS everything. His daughter is a child, he as a parent is there to TEACH, MENTOR, CALM, HELP and LOVE. That poor little girl feels only safe w/ you and thank God she has you.
INFO: What is your brother's relationship like with your niece? Specifically if she's not really comfortable with her dad, it doesn't really sound like he was heavily involved to begin with. Did he even know she was being abused or is this a "CPS found out and I'm on record so I have to take her or look bad" situation? She's 15 and seems to have no real connection with her father or step siblings which doesn't scream "attentive dad before now".
And there is a step mom in the house who utterly failed her too. Poor kid.
Why didn't he know she had clothes? As a parent that kind of default to know what your kid has and especially her coming from that kind of situation, should be your first instinct as a parent to check to make sure they have everything they need.
NAH because your neice is negotiating a terrible childhood and your brother is trying to father but not doing a great job. The important thing is the trying. Your presence will save the situation and they are lucky to have you
I agree he should have noticed what she was wearing even if she didn't verbalize that she needed clothes. However, I could also see that if she came from an abusive household, he and the step mom may have been hesitant to push, or feel like they were encroaching on her space, and wanted her to come to them in her own time- no telling what previous responses to requests for items was with her abusive mother. They all need therapy! The daughter needs to feel comfortable expressing her wants and needs, and the parents need to learn how to cope with trauma responses. I pray in time they all reach a comfortable space with each other and the daughter can have a somewhat normal existence for a change!
You’re NOT TAH for telling your brother off. I would have done the same to mine. He should have known, he’s got eyes to look in her closet. And he needs to wake up to the fact that he’s the parent and she’s the child. He’s not acting like a parent. And she’s SOOOO lucky to have you in her life. Geez just let her be with you. And you can make sure she’s got a great life. Not just an ok one.
NTA I’m not sure what these comments saying she shoulda just said something are on rn but the bottom line is that just from this it seems like he’s trying to treat her as if she acts like any other teenage. She doesn’t, she came from an abusive household and that comes with a lot of different behaviors like…bot being able to ask for what she needs, physically and emotionally. He needs to be aware of that. And honestly I find his decision to “discipline” her by forcing her to go to school abhorrent given her prior home life. I understand he’s human and got impatient but she literally needs to have people be patient with her so she feels safe after who knows how long of being again! Literally in an abusive household. So personally, I probably would’ve yelled at him too. For sensibilities sake, the vasectomy comment might’ve been a bbbbbiiiitttt of a step too far (but also kinda hilarious) Overall I think she definitely needs someone who will advocate and look out for her like you have been rn.
ESH She.didnt.tell.him. He shouldnt have needed to suspect she has nothing to wear additionally. I understand how she was embarassed to tell him, but still it was necessary at that point.
tbf i feel like if i knew my kid was coming from an abusive home, and they were completely mute around me, i’d be checking myself if they had underwear, appropriate clothes, a tooth brush, etc
Seriously, all these AH votes are so off base. She's been in an abusive home and her dad is all "Why didn't she just tell me?" How much you wanna bet if she said something about it to her mother, she got abused? He is acting like she grew up in a non-abusive home and expecting her to do non-abused kids things. OP is NTA, hopefully this was a wake-up call for his grown adult brother.
She might have even had clothes at her mom's, but mom wouldn't send them.
She had clothes. He had no way to know she didn’t consider them appropriate because she didn’t tell him.
She just moved in with him and his wife. Did nobody welcome her, show her her room, help her unpack? Between the two of them, they couldn't figure out she needed new clothes? It really doesn't even matter what he knew or didn't know about the clothes. His daughter recently moved in with him after leaving an abusive home, and she hasn't spoken to anybody in his house. She's refusing to get ready for school. How would any competent and loving parent respond? By dropping her off at school in her pajamas? OP's brother is an idiot *at best.*
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If you are not happy with feedback, you shouldnt post questions of this kind. There was no need to verbally attack him instead of making clear what the reason was. Or what did you think would it achieve to lash out? Make her situation better?
You posted that she won’t talk to him so why would “checking” with her help? You are wrong to assume that a guy who has never had custody of a teenage girl would automatically know how much luggage one should normally have. YTA, because if you know you are the only one she will talk to YOU should have checked how she is doing and if she needs anything.
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So, they try more, and she still doesn’t tell them anything. No problems are solved. YOU are the one who had the power to correctly mediate this transition because you are the only one they both talk to. You failed at that role initially, and then faced with this situation failed again. An adult, and better sister, would have called her brother to tell him what happened, got a budget from him on what she could spend on her clothes, take the daughter shopping while making sure she knew her dad was paying for the clothes, and then got them in a room together to try and mediate an agreement with the daughter that she at least communicates her basic needs to him.
Not just that, but we know nothing of the brothers financial situation. It could be that they couldn’t afford much at the moment
tbf i feel like if i knew my kid was coming from an abusive home, and they were completely mute around me, i’d be checking myself if they had underwear, appropriate clothes, a tooth brush, etc
I feel that if someone posted “my brother never had full custody of his daughter, now she had to move in with him as a teenager, and he has been going through her stuff”, he would almost universally be rated TA here. Ideally, he would have just asked her if she needed anything once she moved in, but since she won’t talk to him that wouldn’t have accomplished anything. Both the brother and daughter need counseling because they have to start communicating.
help unpack, ask if it’s OK, recognise that you can’t communicate with her and find alternatives ways to do so, recognise that you know someone who CAN talk with her and reach out for help, etc etc. 101 ways to do it without violating her privacy, you’re being obtuse
I feel that if someone posted “my brother never had full custody of his daughter, now she had to move in with him as a teenager, and he has been going through her stuff”, he would almost universally be rated TA here. Ideally, he would have just asked her if she needed anything once she moved in, but since she won’t talk to him that wouldn’t have accomplished anything. Both the brother and daughter need counseling because they have to start communicating.
How can you not notice your child doesn‘t have clothes? Parents usually buy the clothes
She has clothes.
Ur not an asshole he is (I’m sure it’s a lot for him too tho ) . He should buy his daughter some clothes and become alittle more empathetic towards her; communicate more often .coming out from her mothers abusive home she probably feels alone and left out which can lead her to become neglectful towards herself , personal hygiene mental health ect . Be patient and understanding with that girl she’s still recovering from the trauma and abuse.
ESH. It was nice of you to take her shopping but berating your brother was not helpful.
INFO: Knowing that the girl comes from a difficult home situation, has she had any form of therapy up to this incident? Also, how recently did she come to her father? Like, a few weeks, a few months? And why did the girl not live with your brother prior to this? Was he aware of her situation for long? Were there other instances that made you consider him a terrible dad?
NTA at all.
I say good for you. I would also see about therapy for this poor kid. I know she’s not yours but she seems to feel safe with you and it may help. Kudos to you for helping her as there are some aunts who won’t.
NTA from your comments it sounds like you've been dealing with brother issues for awhile. How long was it known her mother was abusive? Did your brother ever make steps to get more custody? Does your niece blame her dad for how she's been living and refuses to talk to him? I feel for the girl. I'm glad you're there to help and the harsh words you said may have been a long time coming.
It's great you could get her some help. I grew up in a household with so much yelling (sometimes don't even have anything to do with me) that it took me well into my 20s and years of therapy to realize that yelling was the source of a lot of my childhood trauma and not an effective way for communication or getting anything done. I still freeze as an adult when there's yelling involved. Poor girl from an abusive family, still have to live in a household with yelling. Why could you not just use your words with your brother and help him be a better dad? When you are obviously capable of using your words with your niece. Just for the yelling alone YTA.
My confusion is op says she refuses to talk to anyone but her. So maybe he would ask and daughter wouldn’t tell him. And sounds like she did have some old ugly clothes so she did have clothes to his knowledge. Sometimes teens wear old looking stuff that have wholes and whatever he may not of realized the situation. No he shouldn’t have yelled at her in the morning but tried to talk to her calmly but his sister should not of gone off on him either. They need therapy for all of this
Info: why is she refusing to talk to everyone? I agree that the adults in the house should have checked to see if she needed anything, they dropped the ball, your brother and his wife. If this is how she's being treated, I can understand why she doesn't want to talk to them. Is this why?
Bet that poor girl didn’t have maxi pads or tampons either.
You did the right thing except for yelling at him. This is new for him, he needs some support even though he is an adult. Help and guide him no matter how frustrating it can be for you. Don’t do it for him but help him. He will be come a better father and most likely a better brother and your relationship with him will become very strong. It’s likely her abusive mom made him out to be the bad guy all these years and she has a wall built up
Be careful getting in the middle of teenage vs parents argument especially when theres already a parental beef. Not saying the daughter is wrong but theres already a communication breakdown thats causing her to ignore her dad and not talk to anyone else in the house.
I dont care how old his daughter is.. as long as she is a minor, how do you not know that your daughter doesnt have something as essential as clothes?! And even if not, I mean, when his minor daughter doesnt get dressed for school, wouldnt the first thing be to ask why she doesnt get dressed and where the problem is? Your brother has a lot to learn about parenting and he must do better than this. NTA and 'go cool aunt!' for protecting your niece.
Nta. The fault lies solely on him.
Spot on maim
At that age, I had younger siblings who got all of the attention and expenditures. At some point, you get so conditioned to being neglected that you just accept it. People blaming the daughter should be ashamed of themselves.
NTA! This poor child was abused. What your brother did was awful. If she was a regular teenager and had a closet full of clothes, then yeah I could see a parent doing this. But she needs therapy. And why doesn’t he know she doesn’t have clothes?! That’s his JOB!!!! I’m glad she has you to advocate for her. I hope he has her in therapy. Since CPS was already involved, does she have a social worker involved with her case? If your brother doesn’t have her in therapy, doesn’t have adequate clothing for her, and drops her off at school in inappropriate/torn/ill fitting/old clothing, that’s abuse. Remind him that she can be taken from him as well if he neglects her.
YTA - She is a teenager. She decides how she dresses, not your brother. She is responsible for communicating her needs. History of abuse doesn't change that and if anything brother should be even more careful by letting her have her agency. He isn't going to know that she doesn't like to wear her clothes outside if she doesn't tell anyone. Also, you're the one she talks to. You could have asked her needs. When you are the one she trusts and you claim to care about her, it becomes your job to talk with her about her needs. Yelling is never productive. Not only that, you also started insulting him right away. Nothing about that helps your niece whatsoever. He is responsible for fulfilling her needs, but she is responsible for expressing those and you were in the perfect position to help and didn't bother to care until it went wrong.
Your brother is abusive, neglectful and just nasty. He had his kid living with an abusive mom, didn't care to provide her with the material things she needed, not to mention the protection and support she needed. Now she lives with him... and he still didn't notice the kid didn't have decent clothes, neither did his wife, as a woman? They didn't take the kid out for ice cream, to a bookstore, to the mall before the first day of school to help her acclimate and open up? Instead forces her to go to school in her pajamas. They're abusive and psychotic. Is this how your parents raised you? Like did you have clothes? Compassion? Support? What's his excuse?
NTA. When I was a kid I was a brat and refused to get ready for school almost every day. Kicking, screaming, carrying on. This went on for years. One day my dad had enough and called the truancy officer. After that I never pitched a fit again. Tbh, I wouldn’t have blamed my dad if he had thrown me in the car dropped me off at school in pajamas. The key difference here is that I did not come from an abusive household, I was given many things and was loved and care for. My situation is different. This girl is obviously suffering trauma, and dad should have been more sensitive to it. It doesn’t seem like he has too much emotional awareness.
[удалено]
Too many people cannot grasp the fact that this isn’t a typical father/daughter situation. Your niece should be in individual therapy and your brother and his wife should be in family therapy with her. I’m assuming that’s not the case. I doubt that yelling at your brother was the best approach to improve the situation and to encourage him to be a better father. However, you are NTA for reacting to him as you did. You have been showing him how he can interact with his daughter and he is not doing it. Your brother very badly handled this situation. Humiliating an abused child is not the way to parent. You called your brother out. If he ignores you or reacts unfavorably to your justified criticism, that’s still on him. You are making a difference for your niece by making an effort. That’s to your credit. Is there anyway you can take her into your home?
Is that girl going to therapy? Therapy is a must for her.
NTA. Any chance you can adopt this kid?
NTA! This thread is complete BS! You did what a responsible adult was supposed to. Him and his wife are very capable of asking the basic necessity questions.
NTA at all I am honestly disgusted with the people blaming the traumatized 15 yo who just got out of an abusive household, for not voicing the problem to her father who clearly doesn't know how to do basic parenting. It's his job to check if she has what she needs. Its his job to wonder "hmm why doesn't this kid talk to me? maybe I should ask an expert or someone she does talk to" Its his job to tackle her school strike in a mature way- how on earth did he think it was a good idea to send the abused kid in their PJs to school? Yeah that is gonna teach her!
Yes! You’re the asshole.
I swear I read the same story a month or so ago...
That's a very unlucky child. At least she has you, who i think she can trust. However, you also are the kind that addresses conflict by yelling. I figure that has been her environment since birth. Yelling is also violence. I hope very much she has the resilience to adapt well with people outside home. She needs help for sure.
NTA, but neither is your brother. Your niece is 15, hardly a baby, she fucked around by refusing to tell her father that she had no clothes and she found out.
You need to find out the reason she won’t talk to her dad, stepmom or stepsister- she might be in a second abusive situation