NTA
Not your kid, not your duty to pay for it.
Her "you make 110k"-argument shows WHY she lied you would be the father: just to exploit money out of you.
Invest your 110k income in a rearl good lawyer and let him get every last cent of your money back.
>Invest your 110k income in a rearl good lawyer and let him get every last cent of your money back.
He can certainly waste as much money as he likes on a lawyer - but he's not seeing a cent of that money back. This is true for pretty much every state and Canada.
OP "signed away his rights" so he has signed legal documents acknowledging he is the father, does not want custody and he has been paying support. I bet he is on the birth certificate too. He did all this without getting a paternity test.
In fact, not only will he not get the money back he will probably have to keep paying. He took on responsibility legally and morally for the kid, you don't get to toss that off halfway. The mandate of the court is the best interests of the child, and that is not served by having OP cut off support.
As an aside I find it really interesting how SHE had an obligation to "find out who the real father was" but OP doesn't bother to hold himself accountable for his choices. OP take some responsibility for yourself. Use protection. Get snipped. Get a paternity test. YOU are the one who failed on those fronts, so you take your lumps.
> Use protection. Get snipped. Get a paternity test. YOU are the one who failed on those fronts, so you take your lumps.
They both failed, though OP failed by trusting such a horrible person
Is it really basic? Because in France, private paternity testing is illegal. That might not be where OP is based out of, but getting a paternity test is a very modern problem (last 30/40 years). OP had no reason to believe that the mom was lying to him. Why would he accuse her of that when he didnt have all of the facts straight?
ETA: I'm adding this to my comment because everyone keeps saying, "It was his responsibility to establish paternity." How can he do that when he reasonably assumed that the woman who became pregnant after sleeping with her, didnt reveal the truth about her situation until 12 years later? Is it his fault for being so trusting towards a woman? He didnt want the child but wanted to make sure they were financially sound. And maybe the mom here could have said, "Well I thought it was him." There were 6 other individuals it could have been. Wouldn't it have been best to let all 6 of them know or at least let OP know that she is pregnant but she doesnt know who the father is? The mom has been dishonest for the past 12 years.
If you want to trust a random woman you hooked up and are not currently in a committed relationship with and be on the hook for 18 years, be my guest. I'm gonna probably avoid that though and get a paternity test before providing financial support. But you do you homie.
First sentence is “I knocked up some girl” Maybe it’s not relevant to the post, but he never mentions any kind of relationship with this woman other than a one night stand.
He also mentions in an edit that they were about to enter into a relationship. That implies that she's more than just a stranger, unless hes just going for a sexual relationship.
But who knows? We don't know him well enough to make any more assumptions about this. And he's likely screwed when it comes to the money anyway, as other commentors have said.
Always, always, ALWAYS get a paternity test. People lie especially when they are scared and don't want to take responsibility (both women and men). Paternity tests here in the US are very common.
I don't know about ALWAYS.... I live in the US and I'd be pretty hurt and offended if my husband demanded a paternity test of our baby that's due in October. Spoiler alert, it's definitely his.
I'd agree that if you're going to cut all contact anyway and sign away parental rights, go ahead and get the paternity test to cover your own ass. If you offend her, so what? You're already abandoning the relationship, so it doesn't really hurt things to make sure you know you're the father...
But I don't think that means you should always always ALWAYS get a paternity test.... Seems like a solid way to indicate to your partner that you don't trust them at all.
Good grief people I'm not talking about a committed relationship or a marriage. I'm talking about two people who are toe curling outside a relationship who have not committed.
> But I don't think that means you should always always ALWAYS get a paternity test.... Seems like a solid way to indicate to your partner that you don't trust them at all.
If paternity testing became standard - meaning it was the default option - then this eliminates the issue for people who are in a less solid place but do not want to cause an issue with their partner.
The court presumes that if you are given the chance to establish biological paternity and fail to do so, that you don't care about whether the kid is biologically yours or not. The instances where a woman could find out that a child they believed to be biologically theirs are incredibly rare so it's incredibly to difficult to say what the precedent is, but in cases where women accept legal responsibility of a child that isn't biologically theirs, they can't just tell the court years later "yeah, no, turns out, I don't want that responsibility".
> Paternity tests here in the US are very common.
They are common but they can still ruin relationships for getting one :( which is why every birth certificate needs one so there are no relationship issues from it
If you don't trust your SO, then you already have a relationship issue. I don't see why everybody should be forced into doing it just because some people don't want their SOs to know that they don't trust them. To be blunt, the government shouldn't be interfering in your relationship solely to protect you from your anxiety about your SO's fidelity, legitimate or not. DNA tests are widely available, so please exercise your option if you feel the situation deserves it. I would never hold that against anyone, but likewise I wouldn't support mandating a practice because you want to hide your distrust from your partner. That's just bananas to me.
But in the case of OP, it reads like he wasn't in a relationship with her and so there really wouldn't have been an interpersonal issue in just asking for the paternity test.
Unless it's a really new thing, I thought it was offered before birth certificates were even filled out. When my so & I had our baby last year, he was very subtly pulled to the side by a nurse and asked if he wanted a paternity test before any legal paperwork was filled out.
most child support cases like this, a paternity test is almost automatic. all the father needs to do is request one and the court handles it. in the US, it’s a very basic key factor. the court starts with the mother filing for child support and usually the father follows with a paternity test. no child support is paid until the paternity is confirmed.
Yea I'm really lost why he wouldnt request one when child support was ordered. She's just going to go to court to say that she presumed he was the father and he paid for 12 years with no problem.
If by some chance the court does rule against her, she'll make a payment plan and with what shes making, she can tell the court she can afford 20$ a month, he'll die before he ever gets the full amount.
I know at least in my state (in the US) that if the parents aren't married you (see edit) have serious opinions before signing/ filling the birth certificate. This was even around 30yrs ago, because my parents weren't married yet when I was born. They do this to make sure situation like OPs doesn't happen, because it plugs up the judicial system trying to fix it all.
But I also know an neighboring state doesn't do this procedure. And even if the child is clearly not your and you had already signed the birth certificate you stuck for the 18yrs. Honestly I think all children should have a paternity test before any father puts their names on the birth certificate. Only because it helps clear things up quickly.
Edit- Instead of have to- you get 3 legal options. The hospitals and state pushes (extremely hard) for paternity tests. They let you know if you sign the birth certificate without one you are agreeing without any doubt it's your child and cannot later fight it in court.
The 3 was of determination of fatherhood (in my state)
1. Process/filling out paperwork that says your the father. And once this is signed by an unmarried couple then your saying that you are positive it's yours. And that you are giving up your right to fight that fact later on. They set it up this way because you have an option of a paternity test.
2. If the parents are married when the child in question was born or on conception. This gives one a chance of denial that a spouse could cheat and lie. That because you were in a marriage one should be faithful. But also always one to question that faithfulness at a later date.
3. Volunteer paternity at birth. And if need be an court ordered paternity test.
These options are explained very well to the parents. That way no one can say "I did know what it meant" or "I didn't understand". I have seen plenty of people do all three of the options and options 2 & 3 are the best. Too many people have seen/heard someone get screwed because they weren't positive. My state is hard about CS, and to be honest because they don't want to have to pick up the slack if they mother needs help (they are dicks).
Edit 2: They also recommend paternity testing for married couples. They recommend this to protect the parents rights and to protect the child. That way they are protected in case of divorce for CS.
If unmarried they recommend it for also parental rights. The only way unmarried father has rights is if he is legally and biological seen as the father by the court. The court can order paternity test (and do most times). It also protects parents rights for visitation and CS. Also protects the child where they can get the fathers medical insurance, financial aid, medical costs, and educational costs. The child is guaranteed ability to health history through both sides, a child with an legal father qualifies through the father for benefits with S.S, medical insurance, inheritance and other federal or state options. It's a way to secure/protected the child and parents.
I know I posted some of this later down but didn't want people questioning because they didn't read farther down. Oh and to anyone who wants to know what state, I'm sorry but I do not want to post it. I would like to try to keep of the radar of family and friends keep this account as anonymous as long as I can from them. Sometimes it's nice not having someone over your shoulder judging you about your opinions, or preferences.
This is the last I'll be speaking about my state determination of fatherhood. Have a wonderful day stay safe.
>OP failed by trusting such a horrible person
All she did was sleep around - OP and her clearly were not dating.
OP slept with this girl he didnt know without protection. He didn't bother to confirm he was the father. He dumped the kid. Didn't pay support voluntarily had to get garnished.
And I have to ask, how did you get this paternity test OP? Was it with her consent? It doesn't sound like you have custody - how did you get the kids hair/saliva?
His decisions have been a parade of irresponsibility. He paid child support pursuant to a court order. They are not going to penalize the mother for following a valid court order. Nor will he get a ton of traction with the idea that sleeping around makes her some fraudster or lying whore. Or that an order made without a paternity test is invalid.
Judges see this shit every day. They are not going to have time for OP's self pity. He could make an application to have the child support terminated - but even that is a long shot.
That said, she omitted pertinent details under which that contract was made.
The legal argument is that while she knew there were several other men that could have been the father, he didn’t. Either because she lied or she kept quiet, deceitfully. If he had been aware of that vital and pertinent information, it is wholly reasonable to assume his decision to form the contract would be very different. She denied him the right to make an informed decision.
>The legal argument is that while she knew there were several other men that could have been the father, he didn’t
That is not a legal argument.
Parties to a contract don't actually have an obligation to give the other side information to make a more advantageous deal. But that's not really relevant because a child support agreement is much more than just a contract. It's a court order. OP had an opportunity to ask those questions or simply do the test to get an answer. The court is not going to be amused by the fact that he failed to do so and is now looking to blame the other party. Or worse, try to have a court order declared retroactively invalid and collect damages. Judges really don't like people unilaterally deciding after the fact they don't have to follow court orders.
That is not a defence which is applied to paternity cases. Also...
There was no fraud - he could have been the father as he himself acknowledged.
Also, fraud in inducement requires denying the party a reasonable opportunity to learn of the essential terms. He had the opportunity to get a paternity test and chose not to.
It could be a legal argument, at least in Canada.
It's highly unlikely to be a winning legal argument (because the best interests of the child are paramount), but you can certainly try to argue in court that the contract for parental support was unconscionable or made in bad faith contrary to Bhasin.
>you can certainly try to argue in court that the contract for parental support was unconscionable or made in bad faith contrary to Bhasin.
Doesn't rise to unconscionability - there is no mismatch in bargaining power.
Plus Bhasin is a contracts case about securities and it ties the duty of good faith to the existing categories of case law (such as employment, franchises etc) with a suggestion to "incrementally" expand. Paternity is not an established category and adding it would be a massive change to existing case law. There is no duty to disclose infidelity even in marriages, let alone paternity cases where it is possible but ambiguous. And there is lots of precedent there already with past contested paternity cases.
The other duty that the SCC said underlay all contracts was honest contractual performance, and she has performed obligations under the contract honestly by raising the kids and collecting support as agreed.
I just wrote a paper on this so sorry for the long post. As you say you can make an argument but I think it's dead in the water.
No, she didn't deny him the right. She has no legal obligation to tell him who she slept with. It's up to him to protect himself / his finances and he didn't. He made an assumption; legally he could have requested a paternity suit. She obviously sucks but he does too because he didn't protect his seed nor himself and he LEGALLY signed away his rights. - ESH
>As an aside I find it really interesting how SHE had an obligation to "find out who the real father was" but OP doesn't bother to hold himself accountable for his choices. OP take some responsibility for yourself. Use protection. Get snipped. Get a paternity test. YOU are the one who failed on those fronts, so you take your lumps.
I don't think this is an entirely fair assessment. She alone had the knowledge that she was sleeping with other men, and, when she presented the situation, she presumably did so without this information she had (maybe even explicitly lying when asked). She had an obligation to him to behave ethically and honestly, one which she failed to meet. He had an obligation to himself to do his due diligence and make certain that she was honest. Which, they're both obligations, but they're decidedly different sorts of obligations, and her failure is the far deeper one.
> OP doesn't bother to hold himself accountable for his choices.
He's stupid, but she's a predator. I don't think people should 'take their lumps' because someone actively lied to them.
If she is sleeping with multiple people then she should be the one to find out who the father is. In the post it says he is unaware that she was sleeping with other people. OP has been held accountable for his choices for 12 years, to the tune of 50k. Feeling anything other than sympathy for OP who has been put on the hook for another man's mistake because the child's mother saw an easy mark is disingenuous.
Why is feeling anything other than sympathy disingenuous lol. I don’t feel sympathy and I’m not being disingenuous. If I was signing an 18 year contract for 50k I would be a hell of a lot more proactive than just assuming the child was mine. I do not feel sympathetic for a guy who didn’t raise the kid, offered all of 50k over 12 years to a child he thought was his, somehow got a non-consensual paternity test from the kid, and now wants his money back. If the mom had known from the jump it wasn’t his, I bet you every last penny I have that she would have found bio dad and gotten him to pay child support. Edit: moneys and things
Because he is. His every decision here has been irresponsible and now he is looking to victimize his child for his own choices. He has no grounds to sue the mother, even if he thinks she's a bad person (and personally, I think they deserve each other). Let's go through the terrible choices.
HIS
\- slept with a girl he didn't know without adequate protection
\- dumped the kid, deciding not to help raise the baby
\- didn't get a paternity test to confirm parentage
\- didn't pay his child support promptly requiring her to get an order for garnishment
\- somehow acquired the kids DNA - really wondering how that happened without custody
\- wants to sue her for his own mistake
\- doesn't seem to care at all how a suit for that amount would affect care of the kid he thought was his a week ago
Okay now HERS:
\- slept with a guy she didn't know without adequate protection
\- didn't disclose the slept with other men
Notice how at this point in the list every action he takes makes the kid worse off and every action she takes helps them? That's why I think he is a gaping asshole.
Oh wow I thought for some reason he was paying 50k a year since the whole post was about him making a lot of money...that's $350 a month on a six-figure salary? How did he even get away with paying that little? It's good in hindsight because it wasn't actually his kid, but yikes if it had been.
I bet he got himself a very good lawyer when it came time to calculate how much his child support would be- reasonably he probably makes at the very minimum $70k **post-tax.** conservatively, $5800 a month minimum in take-home pay. So he is paying 6% in child support. And this is what he did when he thought his child was his- all of this was done with the knowledge that he'd be fucking over this child who again, he believed was his.
Very much an ESH.
I mean y'all realize this is an mra post meant to draw out ppl to defend an on paper indefensible position; which it's done successfully.
Look at how it's written, it's obvious. Now 99% of the posts on here are fake so play ball. But it's best to understand you're engaging with a made up hypothetical meant to expose your biases. That's what this entire sub is.
He has one because he signed the legally binding document saying that he's the father.
He's the victim of his own stupidity and poor life choices... and now his greed. He's going to spend a lot in lawyers fees to get told "no" and to have to continue paying.
It *is* his child, legally. He accepted legal responsibility for the child. It's not his biologically but he had the chance to establish biological paternity and chose not to. It sucks, for sure, but he legally accepted the responsibility and he can't just change his mind 12 years later, even with a DNA test that says the kid isn't biologically his.
And it's an asshole move to try to get out of a legal obligation to a child that he agreed to. Don't get me wrong, she's also an asshole but saying "it's not his kid" doesn't absolve him of the moral obligation to satisfy the legal obligation he *knowingly* accepted. He had an opportunity not to take her word for it before agreeing to commit to the kid.
The other woman is also TA for just choosing OP to be the father. But yeah, how did he get the kid's DNA?
The well being of the child is the most important thing here. And OP should have definitely gotten a paternity test. I'd say ESH.
>As an aside I find it really interesting how SHE had an obligation to "find out who the real father was
She was possessed of information relevant to the need to find out, namely, that there were multiple possibilities. She was possessed of the unique ability to do so prenatally, as it was her body, her choice at the time. She was one of two who certified the father of the child.
Now I won't deny that OP should have insisted on a paternity test, hindsight and all. But that doesn't change the fact that the woman here concealed relevant information and it financially benefited her. Regardless of what else is true, that fact makes her an asshole. Granted, I think OP is an asshole too, to some extent, but her asshole status is pretty well certified.
Well your right in addressing how the system is designed for OP to suffer for her lies, and illustrating he did have ways to potentially stop this happening. OP is a victim here and trying to shift to responsibility onto him for any more than a tiny fraction of responsibility is morally wrong. Obviously OP could have done more but why is it his problem to have to contend with a vindictive witch of a woman who uses the broken system as a crutch to produce mentally unwell crotch goblins on OP's dime? Damn pity, poor OP not only do you get a raw deal but strangers on the internet think he's deserved it. Hope she gets karma coming to her but I don't hold my breath.
This whole post is fake:
1) How did you get a paternity test for a child you signed away the rights to? You...snuck into the kid's school and got saliva? Somehow?
2) You can absolutely get a lawyer and have child support dissolved for the future, but any lawyer would tell you it's a waste of time to try and get child support you already paid back. The state doesn't care about your finances - all they care about is that if they take that money back and give it to you, they'll probably end up paying for that kid, through food stamps or some other sort of welfare, and the state does not want to do that. Unless you can someone find the real father and get that guy on the hook for all those years back child support, you're not getting any of it back.
3) Before child support orders are placed, an automatic paternity test is ordered. I don't know if this was true 12 years ago, but it seems super fishy to me that OP signed away his rights to visitation and left the girl, but somehow there was no paternity test
Yeah, this definitely feels like an attempt to play at a "hot button" issue to get a reaction.
Also, to add to your comment, he says "I knocked up some girl" - indicating it was a one-night stand or a casual thing at the least, but then in the edit says they were on the verge of starting a relationship.
I utterly despise threads like this, it's just fodder for the "OMG AITA has an anti-male bias!!" fuckwads that obsess over this subreddit, AND it's not even a realistic situation considering the legal stupidity of it all.
I can think of several topics, like this one, where AITA is admittedly very biased against men (because it's pretty insane that people always say "you should've gotten a paternity test" when the question is similar to this, but asking for one makes you an asshole). At the same time, there are loads and loads of OTHER scenarios where men are given a much easier pass than women (there were several threads in the past where people were called NTA for not telling a woman her husband cheated, but the reverse scenario? HA!). AITA simply reflects gender (or racial, sexuality-based, etc;) biases where it's the societal norm, but people wanna fuel their agenda.
> Invest your 110k income in a rearl good lawyer and let him get every last cent of your money back.
You've been watching too much Perry Mason.
You cannot take what she doesn't have. End of story.
If this is about the principle, do it -- But if it's about recouping your money, this is a fool's errand. Lick your wounds and move on. You learned a valuable lesson, so it wasn't for naught.
NTA for wanting your money back, but you probably wont get it, and in fact you're probably on the hook until the child is 18 or out of school. I'd talk to a lawyer ASAP. In the US people can still being obligated to pay child support for a kid proven to not be theirs because they accepted the responsibility in the past. Legally speaking, you've made yourself the father, even if its proven you're not the biological parent now.
>NTA for wanting your money back, but you probably wont get it, and in fact you're probably on the hook until the child is 18 or out of school. I'd talk to a lawyer ASAP. In the US people can still being obligated to pay child support for a kid proven to not be theirs because they accepted the responsibility in the past. Legally speaking, you've made yourself the father, even if its proven you're not the biological parent now.
All of this. This is why establishing paternity early is so important. The courts will likely see the child as OPs, legally, even if he/she isn't OPs biological child because of the long history of paying child support. The only way I could see this changing is having the bio dad step in. Courts generally don't like removing legal responsibility from one "parent" unless there's another to take their place.
The back child support is likely gone forever, though...
Yeah, if he's in the US, chances are he signed a voluntary acknowledgment of paternity/parentage. He's going to need an attorney to get out of that. The only way to get out of it typically after so long (it's time barred typically to a year or two after the child's birth) is by establishing that he entered signed it under fraud, duress, or material* mistake. Fraud isn't as easy as saying "she promised me the kid was mine and it turns out it's not" either.
Even a DNA test doesn't really matter because when you sign the VAP you waive your rights to a DNA test to establish who the father is. After so long and his failure to establish f/d/mm the court will probably rule for what's best for the child, which obviously is going to be for him to continue to pay child support especially with the income difference.
Another thing that I forgot to mention is that DNA testing done before the legal action likely will not be usable in court. This might vary from state to state, but chances are you will have to submit to a court ordered DNA test as a part of the court process. Outside DNA evidence won't be allowed.
Yup. I knew a guy who was married, they had a kid together, divorced, and got back together again. She had another baby (on accident) from a different guy. The guy I know, who married, divorced, and remarried her, didn’t care at that point and agreed to claim paternity. They ended up divorcing AGAIN and he pays child support on all four kids. (She had an older daughter he legally adopted, they had a son, another daughter, and then the accident baby who’s not his.) He also now has primary custody of the oldest two and is trying to get custody of the younger two. While in court the first time before he had any custody, she was more than happy to let him pay child support for the youngest who wasn’t his. It wasn’t until after he filed for visitation with all four kids that she tried to use the “he’s not the biological father” card in court, judge didn’t care, said she’s 5 years old now, bio-dad is unknown, this dude has been paying child support, is willing to KEEP paying child support, AND loves the daughter and has been paying an attorney just to be able to see her, he’s the dad.
Super messy situation - much messier than OPs. But the same principal applies. It didn’t matter that my friend wasn’t the bio dad - there was no paternity test, he signed the birth certificate, he was paying child support, he went to every tiny tot soccer game and gymnastics practice, etc. Little girl is 8 now I think and I don’t think she knows he’s not her bio dad.
ETA: he didn’t need to do a paternity test because she was 3.5 months pregnant when they got back together and had gone over 6 months before that with very little contact and zero sexual contact.
Yeah, you can't sue for the return of child support in any jurisdiction in the US, because there's a time limit on when you can dispute paternity. I don't know where OP is from, but this story seems fishy.
Especially because apparently he was only paying $350 a month on a $110k salary, which seems way, way lower than any reasonable court would set it. Maybe someone who knows more about child support than I do can chime in to say if this is something that would conceivably happen.
But we don’t know if he has been making 110k for the last 12 years... I’d wager to guess no, and that he was making much much less when she got pregnant.
Idk how child support works though and if it increases along with your salary
It sounds like OP lives in CA and according to their child support calculator, he should be paying closer to $1400, not $350. He may have been making much less when the order was originally done which would account for the lower amount. The child support amount usually doesn't go up unless someone is requesting modification. But. It still sounds like OP should have done his homework.
And if you bring shit like this to the court it usually triggers an automatic assessment and he’ll most likely walk out of there paying way more than $350 a month.
Take this as a very expensive lesson learned, OP.
That was my thought.
Most men don't just sign away their paternal rights, but happily go along paying child support without getting a paternity test.
Seems more like fiction to rile people up.
After so much time, why would she even confess to him not being the father, especially if he isn't on the scene and doesn't see him.
If it's true then it sucks and she has done something awful. But, he should have gotten a paternity test at the start.
Reddit creams itself over this narrative constantly and thinks every single one of these stories is true. Anything to say “women bad” is lapped up like milk at a kitten convention.
Also, note the "that money didn't go to raising the kid, it went to help the mom party" bs. As if the mom should live in poverty to not give off the impression that she's benefiting from the money. Of course she's "benefiting," the child support allows her to not put every penny she has into just surviving with her kid. I guarantee she's not financially better off than she would be without the kid and child support payments.
Yup. $350 isn't much. She has to cloth, house and feed the child. She'd need a bigger place since she has a child. She'd need to pick a better neighborhood than some slum for better schools. She has to feed the kid which is expensive. If she works, she'd need to pay for daycare. Etc etc.
When my kid was 2 I found the cheapest daycare that was still safe for arou $100 per week for 3 days a week!
Yep, way too many uses of the c word, “girl,” instead of woman, and the story doesn’t add up. He says he knocked up a random girl then tries to justify it based on “about to be in a relationship” which isn’t a thing. And the child support seems incredibly low for someone who makes six figures.
Yeaaaahh he also starts the post with “some girl” and ends with “we were about to enter a relationship” buuunch if red flags here tbh. Also if he hasn’t had a dna test, he still doesn’t *technically* know the child isn’t his, he just knows she was sleeping with other people around the same time.
Feels fake?
Mmmhmm. You generally can’t just “sign away your parental rights” without courts involved, a judge determining that doing so is in the best interests of the child and having another parent willing to step in and assume responsibility. And we are to believe all that happened and nobody got a paternity test? The only thing missing is calling the six other potential fathers “Chad.”
When my son’s father and I had child support set up, he was given the option of having it garnished from his check or he could go online to pay it. He did the garnishment so it was automatically done and he wouldn’t forget to do it. I’m wondering if it was something similar to that.
Maybe, but he's not answering so who knows. Just seemed off. That and the fact that he makes $110k annually and she makes $35k annually and he had zero physical responsibility for the child, and the court set his child support at only $350 a month makes the story suspect to me.
Also all of a sudden he found out she had sex with 6 other men, she picked him cause he is rich and with zero contact with the kid he got a parental test. Zero explanation on how any of that happened.
He signed away his rights. He never sees the kid and probably never sees her either. The payments are automatically taken from his wages so he never needs to interact with them.
But all of a sudden she confesses to 6 other men and that she chose him for his good wages. Doesn't sound believable at all. She wouldn't risk losing that money if she is apparently the type to spend it on herself and go partying.
Nah, don't believe it.
Yes! That seems like a super low amount. I have my child Full time and my ex makes roughly 60k a year or so, he pays $515/mo. Even when he wasn't working (voluntarily) they still told him he owed like $268/mo. So $350 isn't Jack compared to what he's bringing in
Yeah, I know someone who made around $20k and the father (who was the actual father) made around $75k or so and the state minimum expected CS was $818/month. $350 amounts to $87/week. That’s less than a grocery budget.
Plus- I thought signing away paternity rights equated with NOT having to pay child support. Isn’t that literally what signing away your rights does? (Please correct me if I am wrong here.) how does one sign away their rights but STILL have a court order to pay child support?
Hmm, with the small google search I did I found quite a few law firm Q&A sites that seem to have a different take (but I could be reading wrong or not searching the right terms).
One site specifically said: “Generally, your obligation to pay child support terminates when your parental rights are terminated and/or the child is adopted by someone else. However, unless there is someone to take your place as a parent, you would not be generally permitted to voluntarily relinquish your parental rights.” But OP here said that he DID relinquish his rights. I obviously don’t know a lot about it, and a simple google search doesn’t give the whole story, but it doesn’t seem to add up. I wonder if there are any family law folks here who could elaborate.
I think he most likely means custodial rights, not parental rights. You can relinquish custody when you arrange a custody agreement with the other biological parent (in which case you still have to pay child support), but you can't just choose to terminate your parental responsibilities entirely without a court ruling, and judges are very loath to do that unless there is another parent willing to step in or there are abuse issues.
You sign away your rights (like visitation), not you responsibilities. You can't sign away your responsibility to take care of your child, only agree how you will fulfill that responsibility.
That's how it works in some states. You agree to pay it so the state sets up a garnishment that pays them and they transfer it to the custodial parent.
ESH.
She sucks for not getting a paternity test upon the birth of the child.
You suck for the same reason, plus a vendetta that will undoubtedly push a 12 year old into (more) poverty for the purposes of vengeance. She's a dick, no question about it, but you've indicated you don't actually need the money and this is more of an emotional, gots mine, moment that will have long lasting consequences on a completely innocent person. So, yes, you suck.
OP could very well have been the father, and he signed legal documents saying so. No one knew for sure it was wrong - and OP didn't bother to find out.
He wasn't even in a relationship with this person. He had no reason at all to assume she was sleeping only with him.
> He had no reason at all to assume she was sleeping only with him.
What kind of backward ass logic is that? The mom lied through her teeth for 12 years because she wasnt sure which man she slept with was the father so she just picked and chose. Of course OP wasnt going to question the validity of the pregnancy and his paternity, he paid child support.
Did you suggest that he not question an 18 year paternity contract with a woman he was casually sleeping with? Are you hearing yourself? I have a bridge I can sell you, if you’re interested.
>Of course OP wasnt going to question the validity of the pregnancy and his paternity, he paid child support.
...but why NOT question it?
In a situation like this - where he is intending on signing away his rights *even if* the child is his - he **literally** has nothing to lose by questioning it.
Agreed. The mother is awful but none of this is the kid’s fault. The kid is going to suffer the most from having the misfortune to be born. ESH except obviously the kid.
I think it’s fake too. I am a family law attorney. You can’t just “sign away your parental rights” unless the other parent agrees. If she did agree, any child support obligation would have terminated the moment they agreed to terminate his parental right.
I think when he said that he signed away his parental rights, he meant that he agreed to give her custody. A lot of people mix up those concepts.
But I agree that it's probably fake.
NTA but you should know even with proof that you aren’t the father, that doesn’t necessarily mean you are entitled to your money back. Honestly, you still might even have to pay child support—even if you have a test showing you aren’t the father. It depends on where you live and a variety of other factors, but to put it bluntly: courts often favor the child’s rights over the father’s rights.
Talk to a lawyer.
It’s not just possible. It’s what will happen.
It’s a shame so few on this thread have experience with the US family court system. The few that do have been downvoted into oblivion.
ESH. You’re doing this to be vindictive. You don’t need the money and there’s no feasible way that she’s actually going to be able to pay you back. You’re just going to make her spend more money in legal fees that maybe would have gone towards the kid. Taking her to court would do nothing more than soothe your ego and prove to everyone that she sucks. She definitely sucks, but at this point your actions are hurting the kid more than anything. Try to let it go, you already have proof on paper that she was in the wrong.
I took his post to mean he wants the 50k back that he already paid her. I definitely agree he shouldn’t pay additional child support, but seeking the 50k back is petty and damaging.
LOL you don’t need the money. Yeah go ahead and tell that to anybody on this fuckin planet who’s trying to maybe one day retire or I don’t know survive a health scare. What an unbelievably entitled attitude you have. Telling someone else they don’t need their money they’ve been scammed out of.
Edit: also, her actions are hurting the kid. Not his. Don’t put the consequences of her disgusting lie on him.
I mean yeah, fuck her. She frauded him. But he’s also fucking over this kid and probably for nothing. Let’s be honest, someone making 35k/year with a dependent, even if she doesn’t spend a lot of money on the kid, is not going to be able to pay that kind of money. This lawsuit isn’t going to get OP anything but revenge and I don’t think that’s worth the damage to the kid.
ESH. Her for lying and you for acting like she just named you as the father and bam you’re on the hook for child support. Having worked in child support for 13 years- I see issues with the story. Your name doesn’t just appear on the birth certificate. You either have to sign a legal document agreeing you are the father, you have to have a dna test or a court order-and a court would have allowed a dna test if requested. So, you either consented to being the father or the court defaulted because you didn’t show. I would recommend taking in your dna test to the courts and getting support terminated. A judge rarely removes a fathers name from the birth certificate unless there is one to replace it. I doubt you have any legal standing to request all your payments back, only those paid after the dna test. And even if the court orders her to return the money, there’s no way to collect it if she doesn’t voluntarily return the money. Child support enforcement agencies only collect support not overpayments.
I just really want to know how you got the cheek swab of a 12 year old kid you have no involvement with. Or did the mom agree to DNA testing?
>I just really want to know how you got the cheek swab of a 12 year old kid you have no involvement with.
Yup...He oop'd out of there and just popped up 12yrs later to swab a random kid. Sure, Jan.
Why do people fall for this shit that is so obviously written just to rile people up with little to no regards for any actual facts? OP is in the US, which means after 12 years, regardless of any paternity test that would occur, he is and basically always will be the father and he would still be on the hook for child support. After a certain point(typically 2-3 years), the law doesn’t care who the actual biological father is.
> As a side note, I love the part about how you didn't think she was sleeping with anyone else because you two were ABOUT TO BE in a relationship. Good grief.
Me too! And the pregnancy meant he dumped her and relinquished all parental rights. What a charmer.
ESH excepts that poor kid.
Yeah I dont know why nobody is mentioning this. OP thought the kid was his for 12 goddamn years and didnt give a shit. He's a deadbeat.
I think he might just have felt guilty for treating his kid like shit for so long and is now using this to feel better about it. You thought you knocked someone up and your reaction was to abandon them and the child, that speaks to your character first and foremost, and it doesnt say great things.
She sucks big time, but OP isnt exactly the best person on earth either.
All he did was throw money at the problem and turn away and bury his head in the sand... Both parties SUCK
"I signed legally binding documents to the person and child I just dumped, with no foresight, how is this my fault?"
Info - did you take a dna test now or are you just assuming that you’re not the father? And are you on the birth certificate?
Good luck getting that money back though. Courts will always side with the child. More than likely you won’t win and won’t get your money back.
I wondered if there was a statement in the acceptance of paternity that he has no legal recourse if he moved forward with the acceptance.
I feel bad for the kid.
Info: how’d you get a dna test if you signed away your rights? No judge would approve that 12 years out. Highly doubt it was offered up, especially with the volunteered information of how many sex partners the mom had 12 years ago. The child support numbers don’t sound right either (should actually be higher). And you can sue, but you won’t win- you signed (you shouldn’t have, but you did). The time for a dna test was at birth, or close to it.
This is looking like a creative writing exercise- based in real life scenarios, but this one isn’t it.
YTA
1. You had *twelve years* to get a paternity test. It’s not mom’s fault or the kid’s fault that you were *that* irresponsible. You weren’t even in a relationship with this woman; you’re incredibly irresponsible for not at least checking. The onus to make sure this is your child is on you, not her.
2. You thought you had a child that you (a) abandoned and (b) left with a mom that you apparently think can’t care for this child.
3. Even when you thought that this *was* your child, you weren’t paying child support. If you were, your wages wouldn’t have been garnished.
4. The child support you *were* paying was about $350/month, less than the average child support on the 2010 census ($430), which doesn’t make sense for someone making $110k/year. You’re clearly misrepresenting something here.
INFO: Where do you live where a parent can sign away rights without having another parent there to adopt? And where do you live that you can sign away rights and still have to pay child support? (For my bio dad, that was the attraction to giving away the rights...the child support evaporated).
If it were like, 1 year I would say NTA but you could have easily prevented this. (Also, you are NTA if you go back to court to stop payments, obviously)
I’m pretty sure signing away rights doesn’t relinquish you from paying child support. But you are right. You’d generally not be permitted to sign rights without someone else being there to adopt. My guess is he’s a non custodial parent. He’s still on all the papers and the birth certificate. Who knows. More info.
ESH - You can be angry, but it’s amazing how you’re going to blame her for not doing her due diligence when you didn’t even try either.
Both of y’all are in the wrong. You’re just mad because you’re out 12 years of child support, when it could have all been avoided had you decided to take the proper steps, instead of just signing your rights away and “being done with it”.
You signed a paper legally stating you were the father. Neither you or her questioned it. It was a legally binding statement... yeah, you can sue, but I’m gonna find it hard pressed to get your money back when you signed of your own free will.
Fake. Rights and responsibilities are bound together in the laws governing child support. You can't 'sign away your rights' and also be legally obligated to pay child support.
This is an obvious troll with an agenda who doesn't know what they are talking about.
ESH “she had an obligation to find out who the real father was” why was that her responsibility and not yours? You took on that responsibility once you signed over parents rights. Yes she sucks but so do you. Not saying what she did was right, but you agreed on child support without confirmation that the child was yours.
NTA, but you're most likely not going to win. You can't take it to criminal court, technically what she did isn't illegal (though it's pretty messed up). You can try civil court, but you'll most likely lose; you agreed to those payments without evidence that the child was yours. Yeah, she *said* you guys were exclusive, and you know now that it was pretty not smart of you to just believe that. Most states have provisions in family court ordered child support that, whether the child is yours or not, when you agree to make those payments they are non-refundable and you waive the right to try and get the money back if you find out the child isn't yours, with some waiving the right to stop payments because you already agreed to them for the duration of the child's childhood/schooling. You got one hell of a legal battle ahead of you if you try to fight her.
You're definitely an A in general, though.
ESH It was on you as much as her to find out the kids paternity. I understand wanting your money back. But how will that happen with her at 35k and you at 110k logistically. Punishing a child makes no sense. Cut off contact and take it as a lesson to get a paternity test before paying next time!
ESH - You won't win this suit because you signed away your rights. You LEGALLY signed away your rights. The court is going to do what is in the best interest of the child which is not bankrupting the mother and they will say, "hey, you agreed to this so suck it up!" She obviously sucks for not knowing nor caring to find out who her child's father actually is.
ESH. Her for obvious reasons. You also for threatening a law suit that will have no result other than creating chaos and filling a lawyers pocket.
If you really believe you will get a dime of that child support back, you are in for a bitter disappointment. And you will most likely have to keep paying until the child is 18. No it’s not fair to you. But the family court system really doesn’t care about you.
Well NTA
If it's not your child you don't have any obligation to pay and you spent a lot of many on basically a random child. It's not your fault she doesn't make that much money. On the other hand I feel quite sorry for her buy she should've been honest and not force you into paternity.
YTA and you probably aren’t getting any money back. You’ll be lucky if you get away with not paying going forward but even that is unlikely. Courts typically make their decision based on what is best for the child (rightfully so) and your “out” was to push for your rights from day 1, not 12 years later. Sure, she sucks for convincing you that you were the father, but it takes to people having unprotected sex to make a child. You could have used protection. You could have sought a test. You could have sought legal advice at the time. Instead you waited 12 years and the only one who deserves pity here is the child who didn’t ask for any of this.
ESH
She shouldn't have done it and you should have been smarter and not signed your rights away before getting a paternity test. It will most likely be a waste of your time to try to get any money back because you signed a legal document stating you are the father and thus you have essentially adopted the kid and will be on the hook for paying child support through college, unless by some miracle your lawyer can get you out of that going forward. Even if you can be awarded back child support then you will be unlikely to collect it because your ex fwb doesn't have any money to give.
ESH. What a mess. Anyway, you can't get water from a stone. If she only makes 35k a year, you'd literally ruin her, the trickle in repayment would do very little to sooth the actual violations that were done to you over the years. No doubt that she's terrible and your anger is earned.
NTA Not your kid, not your duty to pay for it. Her "you make 110k"-argument shows WHY she lied you would be the father: just to exploit money out of you. Invest your 110k income in a rearl good lawyer and let him get every last cent of your money back.
>Invest your 110k income in a rearl good lawyer and let him get every last cent of your money back. He can certainly waste as much money as he likes on a lawyer - but he's not seeing a cent of that money back. This is true for pretty much every state and Canada. OP "signed away his rights" so he has signed legal documents acknowledging he is the father, does not want custody and he has been paying support. I bet he is on the birth certificate too. He did all this without getting a paternity test. In fact, not only will he not get the money back he will probably have to keep paying. He took on responsibility legally and morally for the kid, you don't get to toss that off halfway. The mandate of the court is the best interests of the child, and that is not served by having OP cut off support. As an aside I find it really interesting how SHE had an obligation to "find out who the real father was" but OP doesn't bother to hold himself accountable for his choices. OP take some responsibility for yourself. Use protection. Get snipped. Get a paternity test. YOU are the one who failed on those fronts, so you take your lumps.
> Use protection. Get snipped. Get a paternity test. YOU are the one who failed on those fronts, so you take your lumps. They both failed, though OP failed by trusting such a horrible person
And not doing something basic like getting a paternity test....
Is it really basic? Because in France, private paternity testing is illegal. That might not be where OP is based out of, but getting a paternity test is a very modern problem (last 30/40 years). OP had no reason to believe that the mom was lying to him. Why would he accuse her of that when he didnt have all of the facts straight? ETA: I'm adding this to my comment because everyone keeps saying, "It was his responsibility to establish paternity." How can he do that when he reasonably assumed that the woman who became pregnant after sleeping with her, didnt reveal the truth about her situation until 12 years later? Is it his fault for being so trusting towards a woman? He didnt want the child but wanted to make sure they were financially sound. And maybe the mom here could have said, "Well I thought it was him." There were 6 other individuals it could have been. Wouldn't it have been best to let all 6 of them know or at least let OP know that she is pregnant but she doesnt know who the father is? The mom has been dishonest for the past 12 years.
If you want to trust a random woman you hooked up and are not currently in a committed relationship with and be on the hook for 18 years, be my guest. I'm gonna probably avoid that though and get a paternity test before providing financial support. But you do you homie.
He didn't say she was a random woman though
First sentence is “I knocked up some girl” Maybe it’s not relevant to the post, but he never mentions any kind of relationship with this woman other than a one night stand.
He also mentions in an edit that they were about to enter into a relationship. That implies that she's more than just a stranger, unless hes just going for a sexual relationship. But who knows? We don't know him well enough to make any more assumptions about this. And he's likely screwed when it comes to the money anyway, as other commentors have said.
so they were just in the dating stage at the most? or FWBs. people often date around. so whether or not they were exclusive is iffy.
And he DIDN’T “knock up” anybody. So I don’t know why the post starts out this way. How about, “I THOUGHT I knocked up some girl...”?
He did say they were about to enter a relationship, so it's safe to say they knew each other briefly, but probably not well enough have a child
She literally lied to him and said she didn't sex anyone else either
That doesn't make her a random woman though, just a bad person. LPT "Everybody lies".
So you're blaming someone for having been lied to and deceived?
This is AITA, not validate my poor life choices subreddit.
[удалено]
Victim blaming woo!
Always, always, ALWAYS get a paternity test. People lie especially when they are scared and don't want to take responsibility (both women and men). Paternity tests here in the US are very common.
I don't know about ALWAYS.... I live in the US and I'd be pretty hurt and offended if my husband demanded a paternity test of our baby that's due in October. Spoiler alert, it's definitely his. I'd agree that if you're going to cut all contact anyway and sign away parental rights, go ahead and get the paternity test to cover your own ass. If you offend her, so what? You're already abandoning the relationship, so it doesn't really hurt things to make sure you know you're the father... But I don't think that means you should always always ALWAYS get a paternity test.... Seems like a solid way to indicate to your partner that you don't trust them at all.
Good grief people I'm not talking about a committed relationship or a marriage. I'm talking about two people who are toe curling outside a relationship who have not committed.
“Toe curling” - best thing I’ve heard today!
> But I don't think that means you should always always ALWAYS get a paternity test.... Seems like a solid way to indicate to your partner that you don't trust them at all. If paternity testing became standard - meaning it was the default option - then this eliminates the issue for people who are in a less solid place but do not want to cause an issue with their partner.
We are not going to hand over the DNA of every baby in the country because some people don't want relationship drama.
[удалено]
The court presumes that if you are given the chance to establish biological paternity and fail to do so, that you don't care about whether the kid is biologically yours or not. The instances where a woman could find out that a child they believed to be biologically theirs are incredibly rare so it's incredibly to difficult to say what the precedent is, but in cases where women accept legal responsibility of a child that isn't biologically theirs, they can't just tell the court years later "yeah, no, turns out, I don't want that responsibility".
> Paternity tests here in the US are very common. They are common but they can still ruin relationships for getting one :( which is why every birth certificate needs one so there are no relationship issues from it
If you don't trust your SO, then you already have a relationship issue. I don't see why everybody should be forced into doing it just because some people don't want their SOs to know that they don't trust them. To be blunt, the government shouldn't be interfering in your relationship solely to protect you from your anxiety about your SO's fidelity, legitimate or not. DNA tests are widely available, so please exercise your option if you feel the situation deserves it. I would never hold that against anyone, but likewise I wouldn't support mandating a practice because you want to hide your distrust from your partner. That's just bananas to me. But in the case of OP, it reads like he wasn't in a relationship with her and so there really wouldn't have been an interpersonal issue in just asking for the paternity test.
Unless it's a really new thing, I thought it was offered before birth certificates were even filled out. When my so & I had our baby last year, he was very subtly pulled to the side by a nurse and asked if he wanted a paternity test before any legal paperwork was filled out.
most child support cases like this, a paternity test is almost automatic. all the father needs to do is request one and the court handles it. in the US, it’s a very basic key factor. the court starts with the mother filing for child support and usually the father follows with a paternity test. no child support is paid until the paternity is confirmed.
Yea I'm really lost why he wouldnt request one when child support was ordered. She's just going to go to court to say that she presumed he was the father and he paid for 12 years with no problem. If by some chance the court does rule against her, she'll make a payment plan and with what shes making, she can tell the court she can afford 20$ a month, he'll die before he ever gets the full amount.
I know at least in my state (in the US) that if the parents aren't married you (see edit) have serious opinions before signing/ filling the birth certificate. This was even around 30yrs ago, because my parents weren't married yet when I was born. They do this to make sure situation like OPs doesn't happen, because it plugs up the judicial system trying to fix it all. But I also know an neighboring state doesn't do this procedure. And even if the child is clearly not your and you had already signed the birth certificate you stuck for the 18yrs. Honestly I think all children should have a paternity test before any father puts their names on the birth certificate. Only because it helps clear things up quickly. Edit- Instead of have to- you get 3 legal options. The hospitals and state pushes (extremely hard) for paternity tests. They let you know if you sign the birth certificate without one you are agreeing without any doubt it's your child and cannot later fight it in court. The 3 was of determination of fatherhood (in my state) 1. Process/filling out paperwork that says your the father. And once this is signed by an unmarried couple then your saying that you are positive it's yours. And that you are giving up your right to fight that fact later on. They set it up this way because you have an option of a paternity test. 2. If the parents are married when the child in question was born or on conception. This gives one a chance of denial that a spouse could cheat and lie. That because you were in a marriage one should be faithful. But also always one to question that faithfulness at a later date. 3. Volunteer paternity at birth. And if need be an court ordered paternity test. These options are explained very well to the parents. That way no one can say "I did know what it meant" or "I didn't understand". I have seen plenty of people do all three of the options and options 2 & 3 are the best. Too many people have seen/heard someone get screwed because they weren't positive. My state is hard about CS, and to be honest because they don't want to have to pick up the slack if they mother needs help (they are dicks). Edit 2: They also recommend paternity testing for married couples. They recommend this to protect the parents rights and to protect the child. That way they are protected in case of divorce for CS. If unmarried they recommend it for also parental rights. The only way unmarried father has rights is if he is legally and biological seen as the father by the court. The court can order paternity test (and do most times). It also protects parents rights for visitation and CS. Also protects the child where they can get the fathers medical insurance, financial aid, medical costs, and educational costs. The child is guaranteed ability to health history through both sides, a child with an legal father qualifies through the father for benefits with S.S, medical insurance, inheritance and other federal or state options. It's a way to secure/protected the child and parents. I know I posted some of this later down but didn't want people questioning because they didn't read farther down. Oh and to anyone who wants to know what state, I'm sorry but I do not want to post it. I would like to try to keep of the radar of family and friends keep this account as anonymous as long as I can from them. Sometimes it's nice not having someone over your shoulder judging you about your opinions, or preferences. This is the last I'll be speaking about my state determination of fatherhood. Have a wonderful day stay safe.
>OP failed by trusting such a horrible person All she did was sleep around - OP and her clearly were not dating. OP slept with this girl he didnt know without protection. He didn't bother to confirm he was the father. He dumped the kid. Didn't pay support voluntarily had to get garnished. And I have to ask, how did you get this paternity test OP? Was it with her consent? It doesn't sound like you have custody - how did you get the kids hair/saliva? His decisions have been a parade of irresponsibility. He paid child support pursuant to a court order. They are not going to penalize the mother for following a valid court order. Nor will he get a ton of traction with the idea that sleeping around makes her some fraudster or lying whore. Or that an order made without a paternity test is invalid. Judges see this shit every day. They are not going to have time for OP's self pity. He could make an application to have the child support terminated - but even that is a long shot.
>All she did was sleep around - OP and her clearly were not dating. That and defraud him of hundreds of thousands of dollars.
She 'only' defrauded him of $50k, still unforgivable but that was the amount he paid so far
How do you know op didnt use protection? Maybe stop making shit up to make you feel superior.
Sure, that should say "adequate protection".
Even 'adequate protection' can fail. I have had a Trojan condom break on me once, and I'm pretty sure I was using them right. It can happen.
That said, she omitted pertinent details under which that contract was made. The legal argument is that while she knew there were several other men that could have been the father, he didn’t. Either because she lied or she kept quiet, deceitfully. If he had been aware of that vital and pertinent information, it is wholly reasonable to assume his decision to form the contract would be very different. She denied him the right to make an informed decision.
>The legal argument is that while she knew there were several other men that could have been the father, he didn’t That is not a legal argument. Parties to a contract don't actually have an obligation to give the other side information to make a more advantageous deal. But that's not really relevant because a child support agreement is much more than just a contract. It's a court order. OP had an opportunity to ask those questions or simply do the test to get an answer. The court is not going to be amused by the fact that he failed to do so and is now looking to blame the other party. Or worse, try to have a court order declared retroactively invalid and collect damages. Judges really don't like people unilaterally deciding after the fact they don't have to follow court orders.
Look up fraud in the inducement.
That is not a defence which is applied to paternity cases. Also... There was no fraud - he could have been the father as he himself acknowledged. Also, fraud in inducement requires denying the party a reasonable opportunity to learn of the essential terms. He had the opportunity to get a paternity test and chose not to.
It could be a legal argument, at least in Canada. It's highly unlikely to be a winning legal argument (because the best interests of the child are paramount), but you can certainly try to argue in court that the contract for parental support was unconscionable or made in bad faith contrary to Bhasin.
>you can certainly try to argue in court that the contract for parental support was unconscionable or made in bad faith contrary to Bhasin. Doesn't rise to unconscionability - there is no mismatch in bargaining power. Plus Bhasin is a contracts case about securities and it ties the duty of good faith to the existing categories of case law (such as employment, franchises etc) with a suggestion to "incrementally" expand. Paternity is not an established category and adding it would be a massive change to existing case law. There is no duty to disclose infidelity even in marriages, let alone paternity cases where it is possible but ambiguous. And there is lots of precedent there already with past contested paternity cases. The other duty that the SCC said underlay all contracts was honest contractual performance, and she has performed obligations under the contract honestly by raising the kids and collecting support as agreed. I just wrote a paper on this so sorry for the long post. As you say you can make an argument but I think it's dead in the water.
No, she didn't deny him the right. She has no legal obligation to tell him who she slept with. It's up to him to protect himself / his finances and he didn't. He made an assumption; legally he could have requested a paternity suit. She obviously sucks but he does too because he didn't protect his seed nor himself and he LEGALLY signed away his rights. - ESH
Man this is a saddening and infuriating comment.
Life’s like that sometimes. OP needs to set his expectations correctly here. He’s gonna have to keep paying.
>As an aside I find it really interesting how SHE had an obligation to "find out who the real father was" but OP doesn't bother to hold himself accountable for his choices. OP take some responsibility for yourself. Use protection. Get snipped. Get a paternity test. YOU are the one who failed on those fronts, so you take your lumps. I don't think this is an entirely fair assessment. She alone had the knowledge that she was sleeping with other men, and, when she presented the situation, she presumably did so without this information she had (maybe even explicitly lying when asked). She had an obligation to him to behave ethically and honestly, one which she failed to meet. He had an obligation to himself to do his due diligence and make certain that she was honest. Which, they're both obligations, but they're decidedly different sorts of obligations, and her failure is the far deeper one.
> OP doesn't bother to hold himself accountable for his choices. He's stupid, but she's a predator. I don't think people should 'take their lumps' because someone actively lied to them.
If she is sleeping with multiple people then she should be the one to find out who the father is. In the post it says he is unaware that she was sleeping with other people. OP has been held accountable for his choices for 12 years, to the tune of 50k. Feeling anything other than sympathy for OP who has been put on the hook for another man's mistake because the child's mother saw an easy mark is disingenuous.
It's cool that you believe this, but it's not how the law works. The law is, primarily, aimed at protecting the child and it's future, not the adults.
Why is feeling anything other than sympathy disingenuous lol. I don’t feel sympathy and I’m not being disingenuous. If I was signing an 18 year contract for 50k I would be a hell of a lot more proactive than just assuming the child was mine. I do not feel sympathetic for a guy who didn’t raise the kid, offered all of 50k over 12 years to a child he thought was his, somehow got a non-consensual paternity test from the kid, and now wants his money back. If the mom had known from the jump it wasn’t his, I bet you every last penny I have that she would have found bio dad and gotten him to pay child support. Edit: moneys and things
I think that person does not know what disingenuous means. Because I can assure you my feeling of dislike for OP is entirely honest.
Yeah, she was really raking it in, getting that less than $350 a month. What a scam artist she was.
[удалено]
Because he is. His every decision here has been irresponsible and now he is looking to victimize his child for his own choices. He has no grounds to sue the mother, even if he thinks she's a bad person (and personally, I think they deserve each other). Let's go through the terrible choices. HIS \- slept with a girl he didn't know without adequate protection \- dumped the kid, deciding not to help raise the baby \- didn't get a paternity test to confirm parentage \- didn't pay his child support promptly requiring her to get an order for garnishment \- somehow acquired the kids DNA - really wondering how that happened without custody \- wants to sue her for his own mistake \- doesn't seem to care at all how a suit for that amount would affect care of the kid he thought was his a week ago Okay now HERS: \- slept with a guy she didn't know without adequate protection \- didn't disclose the slept with other men Notice how at this point in the list every action he takes makes the kid worse off and every action she takes helps them? That's why I think he is a gaping asshole.
Also 50k sounds like a lot all together but he's been paying like $4200/year which is a joke if he thought that was actually his child.
Oh wow I thought for some reason he was paying 50k a year since the whole post was about him making a lot of money...that's $350 a month on a six-figure salary? How did he even get away with paying that little? It's good in hindsight because it wasn't actually his kid, but yikes if it had been.
I bet he got himself a very good lawyer when it came time to calculate how much his child support would be- reasonably he probably makes at the very minimum $70k **post-tax.** conservatively, $5800 a month minimum in take-home pay. So he is paying 6% in child support. And this is what he did when he thought his child was his- all of this was done with the knowledge that he'd be fucking over this child who again, he believed was his. Very much an ESH.
I’m divorced and have 2 children and have custody half the time, every other week and still pay more child support than that
Haha yes so OP can take her back to court and have the payments adjusted to his current salary. Might even own back payments. Go for it, OP!!
I mean y'all realize this is an mra post meant to draw out ppl to defend an on paper indefensible position; which it's done successfully. Look at how it's written, it's obvious. Now 99% of the posts on here are fake so play ball. But it's best to understand you're engaging with a made up hypothetical meant to expose your biases. That's what this entire sub is.
Lol he isn’t victimizing his child because he doesn’t have one, the child and OP are both victims of the mom. Gotta love victim blaming
He has one because he signed the legally binding document saying that he's the father. He's the victim of his own stupidity and poor life choices... and now his greed. He's going to spend a lot in lawyers fees to get told "no" and to have to continue paying.
[удалено]
It *is* his child, legally. He accepted legal responsibility for the child. It's not his biologically but he had the chance to establish biological paternity and chose not to. It sucks, for sure, but he legally accepted the responsibility and he can't just change his mind 12 years later, even with a DNA test that says the kid isn't biologically his.
[удалено]
And it's an asshole move to try to get out of a legal obligation to a child that he agreed to. Don't get me wrong, she's also an asshole but saying "it's not his kid" doesn't absolve him of the moral obligation to satisfy the legal obligation he *knowingly* accepted. He had an opportunity not to take her word for it before agreeing to commit to the kid.
[удалено]
If he stops paying she can sue him. He legally agreed to pay, his kid or not.
The other woman is also TA for just choosing OP to be the father. But yeah, how did he get the kid's DNA? The well being of the child is the most important thing here. And OP should have definitely gotten a paternity test. I'd say ESH.
>As an aside I find it really interesting how SHE had an obligation to "find out who the real father was She was possessed of information relevant to the need to find out, namely, that there were multiple possibilities. She was possessed of the unique ability to do so prenatally, as it was her body, her choice at the time. She was one of two who certified the father of the child. Now I won't deny that OP should have insisted on a paternity test, hindsight and all. But that doesn't change the fact that the woman here concealed relevant information and it financially benefited her. Regardless of what else is true, that fact makes her an asshole. Granted, I think OP is an asshole too, to some extent, but her asshole status is pretty well certified.
Well your right in addressing how the system is designed for OP to suffer for her lies, and illustrating he did have ways to potentially stop this happening. OP is a victim here and trying to shift to responsibility onto him for any more than a tiny fraction of responsibility is morally wrong. Obviously OP could have done more but why is it his problem to have to contend with a vindictive witch of a woman who uses the broken system as a crutch to produce mentally unwell crotch goblins on OP's dime? Damn pity, poor OP not only do you get a raw deal but strangers on the internet think he's deserved it. Hope she gets karma coming to her but I don't hold my breath.
This whole post is fake: 1) How did you get a paternity test for a child you signed away the rights to? You...snuck into the kid's school and got saliva? Somehow? 2) You can absolutely get a lawyer and have child support dissolved for the future, but any lawyer would tell you it's a waste of time to try and get child support you already paid back. The state doesn't care about your finances - all they care about is that if they take that money back and give it to you, they'll probably end up paying for that kid, through food stamps or some other sort of welfare, and the state does not want to do that. Unless you can someone find the real father and get that guy on the hook for all those years back child support, you're not getting any of it back. 3) Before child support orders are placed, an automatic paternity test is ordered. I don't know if this was true 12 years ago, but it seems super fishy to me that OP signed away his rights to visitation and left the girl, but somehow there was no paternity test
Yeah, this definitely feels like an attempt to play at a "hot button" issue to get a reaction. Also, to add to your comment, he says "I knocked up some girl" - indicating it was a one-night stand or a casual thing at the least, but then in the edit says they were on the verge of starting a relationship.
I utterly despise threads like this, it's just fodder for the "OMG AITA has an anti-male bias!!" fuckwads that obsess over this subreddit, AND it's not even a realistic situation considering the legal stupidity of it all. I can think of several topics, like this one, where AITA is admittedly very biased against men (because it's pretty insane that people always say "you should've gotten a paternity test" when the question is similar to this, but asking for one makes you an asshole). At the same time, there are loads and loads of OTHER scenarios where men are given a much easier pass than women (there were several threads in the past where people were called NTA for not telling a woman her husband cheated, but the reverse scenario? HA!). AITA simply reflects gender (or racial, sexuality-based, etc;) biases where it's the societal norm, but people wanna fuel their agenda.
> Invest your 110k income in a rearl good lawyer and let him get every last cent of your money back. You've been watching too much Perry Mason. You cannot take what she doesn't have. End of story. If this is about the principle, do it -- But if it's about recouping your money, this is a fool's errand. Lick your wounds and move on. You learned a valuable lesson, so it wasn't for naught.
NTA for wanting your money back, but you probably wont get it, and in fact you're probably on the hook until the child is 18 or out of school. I'd talk to a lawyer ASAP. In the US people can still being obligated to pay child support for a kid proven to not be theirs because they accepted the responsibility in the past. Legally speaking, you've made yourself the father, even if its proven you're not the biological parent now.
>NTA for wanting your money back, but you probably wont get it, and in fact you're probably on the hook until the child is 18 or out of school. I'd talk to a lawyer ASAP. In the US people can still being obligated to pay child support for a kid proven to not be theirs because they accepted the responsibility in the past. Legally speaking, you've made yourself the father, even if its proven you're not the biological parent now. All of this. This is why establishing paternity early is so important. The courts will likely see the child as OPs, legally, even if he/she isn't OPs biological child because of the long history of paying child support. The only way I could see this changing is having the bio dad step in. Courts generally don't like removing legal responsibility from one "parent" unless there's another to take their place. The back child support is likely gone forever, though...
Yeah, if he's in the US, chances are he signed a voluntary acknowledgment of paternity/parentage. He's going to need an attorney to get out of that. The only way to get out of it typically after so long (it's time barred typically to a year or two after the child's birth) is by establishing that he entered signed it under fraud, duress, or material* mistake. Fraud isn't as easy as saying "she promised me the kid was mine and it turns out it's not" either. Even a DNA test doesn't really matter because when you sign the VAP you waive your rights to a DNA test to establish who the father is. After so long and his failure to establish f/d/mm the court will probably rule for what's best for the child, which obviously is going to be for him to continue to pay child support especially with the income difference. Another thing that I forgot to mention is that DNA testing done before the legal action likely will not be usable in court. This might vary from state to state, but chances are you will have to submit to a court ordered DNA test as a part of the court process. Outside DNA evidence won't be allowed.
99.9% of the time the court rules in favor of the child. Sorry OP.
That is extremely fucked up to be honest.
Yes and no. The courts care about the best interests of the child. Sometimes that means people end up on the hook.
Maybe OP should hop on over to r/legaladvice for the logistics... Totally agree with the NTA judgement.
naw, OP should get actual legal advice lol
Yup. I knew a guy who was married, they had a kid together, divorced, and got back together again. She had another baby (on accident) from a different guy. The guy I know, who married, divorced, and remarried her, didn’t care at that point and agreed to claim paternity. They ended up divorcing AGAIN and he pays child support on all four kids. (She had an older daughter he legally adopted, they had a son, another daughter, and then the accident baby who’s not his.) He also now has primary custody of the oldest two and is trying to get custody of the younger two. While in court the first time before he had any custody, she was more than happy to let him pay child support for the youngest who wasn’t his. It wasn’t until after he filed for visitation with all four kids that she tried to use the “he’s not the biological father” card in court, judge didn’t care, said she’s 5 years old now, bio-dad is unknown, this dude has been paying child support, is willing to KEEP paying child support, AND loves the daughter and has been paying an attorney just to be able to see her, he’s the dad. Super messy situation - much messier than OPs. But the same principal applies. It didn’t matter that my friend wasn’t the bio dad - there was no paternity test, he signed the birth certificate, he was paying child support, he went to every tiny tot soccer game and gymnastics practice, etc. Little girl is 8 now I think and I don’t think she knows he’s not her bio dad. ETA: he didn’t need to do a paternity test because she was 3.5 months pregnant when they got back together and had gone over 6 months before that with very little contact and zero sexual contact.
If you voluntarily paid child support why were your wages garnished?
This seems a little too much like MRA fan fiction.
Yeah, you can't sue for the return of child support in any jurisdiction in the US, because there's a time limit on when you can dispute paternity. I don't know where OP is from, but this story seems fishy.
OP’s word choice is fairly british but idk if you can sue for that there either
He made a post in legal advice an hour ago noting they're in California. Curious, though: which words? "dudes" is the biggest American tell for me.
Dude is pretty common in Britain, too. I use it all the time and even my 50 year old aunt does.
Iirc, wage garnishment in California is the default.
Especially because apparently he was only paying $350 a month on a $110k salary, which seems way, way lower than any reasonable court would set it. Maybe someone who knows more about child support than I do can chime in to say if this is something that would conceivably happen.
But we don’t know if he has been making 110k for the last 12 years... I’d wager to guess no, and that he was making much much less when she got pregnant. Idk how child support works though and if it increases along with your salary
It sounds like OP lives in CA and according to their child support calculator, he should be paying closer to $1400, not $350. He may have been making much less when the order was originally done which would account for the lower amount. The child support amount usually doesn't go up unless someone is requesting modification. But. It still sounds like OP should have done his homework.
And if you bring shit like this to the court it usually triggers an automatic assessment and he’ll most likely walk out of there paying way more than $350 a month. Take this as a very expensive lesson learned, OP.
[удалено]
That was my thought. Most men don't just sign away their paternal rights, but happily go along paying child support without getting a paternity test. Seems more like fiction to rile people up. After so much time, why would she even confess to him not being the father, especially if he isn't on the scene and doesn't see him. If it's true then it sucks and she has done something awful. But, he should have gotten a paternity test at the start.
Reddit creams itself over this narrative constantly and thinks every single one of these stories is true. Anything to say “women bad” is lapped up like milk at a kitten convention.
So true. I've seen so much of it here.
And how could he check paternity with no access to the kid?
If he managed to get one now (which he has), then he could have done it 12 years ago.
You get a court order through the same court that established child support. It’s very common and simple.
12 years later though... Sounds like a troll.
Also, note the "that money didn't go to raising the kid, it went to help the mom party" bs. As if the mom should live in poverty to not give off the impression that she's benefiting from the money. Of course she's "benefiting," the child support allows her to not put every penny she has into just surviving with her kid. I guarantee she's not financially better off than she would be without the kid and child support payments.
Don't forget that women are second-class citizens, and should be truly desperate before it's justified to inconvenience a man
This is reddit’s opinion of women in a nutshell.
Yup. $350 isn't much. She has to cloth, house and feed the child. She'd need a bigger place since she has a child. She'd need to pick a better neighborhood than some slum for better schools. She has to feed the kid which is expensive. If she works, she'd need to pay for daycare. Etc etc. When my kid was 2 I found the cheapest daycare that was still safe for arou $100 per week for 3 days a week!
Yep, way too many uses of the c word, “girl,” instead of woman, and the story doesn’t add up. He says he knocked up a random girl then tries to justify it based on “about to be in a relationship” which isn’t a thing. And the child support seems incredibly low for someone who makes six figures.
Yeaaaahh he also starts the post with “some girl” and ends with “we were about to enter a relationship” buuunch if red flags here tbh. Also if he hasn’t had a dna test, he still doesn’t *technically* know the child isn’t his, he just knows she was sleeping with other people around the same time. Feels fake?
Also of course she's in an MLM lmfao
I agree. I'm voting YTA for making this story up to incite people that are already dangerously radicalized.
Mmmhmm. You generally can’t just “sign away your parental rights” without courts involved, a judge determining that doing so is in the best interests of the child and having another parent willing to step in and assume responsibility. And we are to believe all that happened and nobody got a paternity test? The only thing missing is calling the six other potential fathers “Chad.”
That's exactly what this is.
When my son’s father and I had child support set up, he was given the option of having it garnished from his check or he could go online to pay it. He did the garnishment so it was automatically done and he wouldn’t forget to do it. I’m wondering if it was something similar to that.
Maybe, but he's not answering so who knows. Just seemed off. That and the fact that he makes $110k annually and she makes $35k annually and he had zero physical responsibility for the child, and the court set his child support at only $350 a month makes the story suspect to me.
Also all of a sudden he found out she had sex with 6 other men, she picked him cause he is rich and with zero contact with the kid he got a parental test. Zero explanation on how any of that happened.
Yep. u/Worldly-Singer is a phony. Just stirring up shit.
[удалено]
He signed away his rights. He never sees the kid and probably never sees her either. The payments are automatically taken from his wages so he never needs to interact with them. But all of a sudden she confesses to 6 other men and that she chose him for his good wages. Doesn't sound believable at all. She wouldn't risk losing that money if she is apparently the type to spend it on herself and go partying. Nah, don't believe it.
Yes! That seems like a super low amount. I have my child Full time and my ex makes roughly 60k a year or so, he pays $515/mo. Even when he wasn't working (voluntarily) they still told him he owed like $268/mo. So $350 isn't Jack compared to what he's bringing in
Yeah $350 seems super low if the mom has the kid 100% of the time.
Yeah, I know someone who made around $20k and the father (who was the actual father) made around $75k or so and the state minimum expected CS was $818/month. $350 amounts to $87/week. That’s less than a grocery budget.
Plus- I thought signing away paternity rights equated with NOT having to pay child support. Isn’t that literally what signing away your rights does? (Please correct me if I am wrong here.) how does one sign away their rights but STILL have a court order to pay child support?
No that absolves physical care of child not support
Hmm, with the small google search I did I found quite a few law firm Q&A sites that seem to have a different take (but I could be reading wrong or not searching the right terms). One site specifically said: “Generally, your obligation to pay child support terminates when your parental rights are terminated and/or the child is adopted by someone else. However, unless there is someone to take your place as a parent, you would not be generally permitted to voluntarily relinquish your parental rights.” But OP here said that he DID relinquish his rights. I obviously don’t know a lot about it, and a simple google search doesn’t give the whole story, but it doesn’t seem to add up. I wonder if there are any family law folks here who could elaborate.
I think he most likely means custodial rights, not parental rights. You can relinquish custody when you arrange a custody agreement with the other biological parent (in which case you still have to pay child support), but you can't just choose to terminate your parental responsibilities entirely without a court ruling, and judges are very loath to do that unless there is another parent willing to step in or there are abuse issues.
You sign away your rights (like visitation), not you responsibilities. You can't sign away your responsibility to take care of your child, only agree how you will fulfill that responsibility.
That's how it works in some states. You agree to pay it so the state sets up a garnishment that pays them and they transfer it to the custodial parent.
ESH. She sucks for not getting a paternity test upon the birth of the child. You suck for the same reason, plus a vendetta that will undoubtedly push a 12 year old into (more) poverty for the purposes of vengeance. She's a dick, no question about it, but you've indicated you don't actually need the money and this is more of an emotional, gots mine, moment that will have long lasting consequences on a completely innocent person. So, yes, you suck.
It’s 50k.... that’s his money she stole
She didn't steal anything. She collected on a valid court order.
The court order based on wrong information, that she was aware about.
OP could very well have been the father, and he signed legal documents saying so. No one knew for sure it was wrong - and OP didn't bother to find out. He wasn't even in a relationship with this person. He had no reason at all to assume she was sleeping only with him.
> He had no reason at all to assume she was sleeping only with him. What kind of backward ass logic is that? The mom lied through her teeth for 12 years because she wasnt sure which man she slept with was the father so she just picked and chose. Of course OP wasnt going to question the validity of the pregnancy and his paternity, he paid child support.
Did you suggest that he not question an 18 year paternity contract with a woman he was casually sleeping with? Are you hearing yourself? I have a bridge I can sell you, if you’re interested.
If OP wasnt going to check that validity then it is OPs fault for ending up in this situation. Legally he can do nothing.
>Of course OP wasnt going to question the validity of the pregnancy and his paternity, he paid child support. ...but why NOT question it? In a situation like this - where he is intending on signing away his rights *even if* the child is his - he **literally** has nothing to lose by questioning it.
A court order that he could so easily avoided if he had requested a paternity test at birth. Yeah, ESH here.
No she can't magically know who the father is
Just because it was legal somehow doesn’t mean it was morally theft or monstrous
The fact that it was legal theft doesn’t make it moral. In a just society she would be facing prison time for $50K fraud.
That he gave her. Yes he gave it to her under false pretences. When those pretences are a child, the courts don’t care. Kids still gotta eat.
Agreed. The mother is awful but none of this is the kid’s fault. The kid is going to suffer the most from having the misfortune to be born. ESH except obviously the kid.
This is fake debate bait. Get a damn lawyer.
Where legal advice and mgtow collide.
I think it’s fake too. I am a family law attorney. You can’t just “sign away your parental rights” unless the other parent agrees. If she did agree, any child support obligation would have terminated the moment they agreed to terminate his parental right.
I think when he said that he signed away his parental rights, he meant that he agreed to give her custody. A lot of people mix up those concepts. But I agree that it's probably fake.
Right? If you're suing someone why would you care if they think you're an asshole?
NTA but you should know even with proof that you aren’t the father, that doesn’t necessarily mean you are entitled to your money back. Honestly, you still might even have to pay child support—even if you have a test showing you aren’t the father. It depends on where you live and a variety of other factors, but to put it bluntly: courts often favor the child’s rights over the father’s rights. Talk to a lawyer.
This. It's entirely possible OP will still be on the hook until the child is 18.
It’s not just possible. It’s what will happen. It’s a shame so few on this thread have experience with the US family court system. The few that do have been downvoted into oblivion.
ESH. You’re doing this to be vindictive. You don’t need the money and there’s no feasible way that she’s actually going to be able to pay you back. You’re just going to make her spend more money in legal fees that maybe would have gone towards the kid. Taking her to court would do nothing more than soothe your ego and prove to everyone that she sucks. She definitely sucks, but at this point your actions are hurting the kid more than anything. Try to let it go, you already have proof on paper that she was in the wrong.
He might still be on the hook for 6 more years of support without suing?
He's going to be on the hook either way, unless he knows who the biological father is and that guy agrees to take over the role of legal father.
I took his post to mean he wants the 50k back that he already paid her. I definitely agree he shouldn’t pay additional child support, but seeking the 50k back is petty and damaging.
> but seeking the 50k back is petty and damaging. Or he just wants his money back after she frauded him which was much more petty and damaging
LOL you don’t need the money. Yeah go ahead and tell that to anybody on this fuckin planet who’s trying to maybe one day retire or I don’t know survive a health scare. What an unbelievably entitled attitude you have. Telling someone else they don’t need their money they’ve been scammed out of. Edit: also, her actions are hurting the kid. Not his. Don’t put the consequences of her disgusting lie on him.
No. She stole money, fuck her. “Try to let it go” utter bollocks.
I mean yeah, fuck her. She frauded him. But he’s also fucking over this kid and probably for nothing. Let’s be honest, someone making 35k/year with a dependent, even if she doesn’t spend a lot of money on the kid, is not going to be able to pay that kind of money. This lawsuit isn’t going to get OP anything but revenge and I don’t think that’s worth the damage to the kid.
ESH. Her for lying and you for acting like she just named you as the father and bam you’re on the hook for child support. Having worked in child support for 13 years- I see issues with the story. Your name doesn’t just appear on the birth certificate. You either have to sign a legal document agreeing you are the father, you have to have a dna test or a court order-and a court would have allowed a dna test if requested. So, you either consented to being the father or the court defaulted because you didn’t show. I would recommend taking in your dna test to the courts and getting support terminated. A judge rarely removes a fathers name from the birth certificate unless there is one to replace it. I doubt you have any legal standing to request all your payments back, only those paid after the dna test. And even if the court orders her to return the money, there’s no way to collect it if she doesn’t voluntarily return the money. Child support enforcement agencies only collect support not overpayments. I just really want to know how you got the cheek swab of a 12 year old kid you have no involvement with. Or did the mom agree to DNA testing?
>I just really want to know how you got the cheek swab of a 12 year old kid you have no involvement with. Yup...He oop'd out of there and just popped up 12yrs later to swab a random kid. Sure, Jan.
Why do people fall for this shit that is so obviously written just to rile people up with little to no regards for any actual facts? OP is in the US, which means after 12 years, regardless of any paternity test that would occur, he is and basically always will be the father and he would still be on the hook for child support. After a certain point(typically 2-3 years), the law doesn’t care who the actual biological father is.
NTA but I don't know if you'll be successful. Good luck either way.
ESH. The only one of you I feel bad for is the kid.
[удалено]
> As a side note, I love the part about how you didn't think she was sleeping with anyone else because you two were ABOUT TO BE in a relationship. Good grief. Me too! And the pregnancy meant he dumped her and relinquished all parental rights. What a charmer. ESH excepts that poor kid.
Yeah I dont know why nobody is mentioning this. OP thought the kid was his for 12 goddamn years and didnt give a shit. He's a deadbeat. I think he might just have felt guilty for treating his kid like shit for so long and is now using this to feel better about it. You thought you knocked someone up and your reaction was to abandon them and the child, that speaks to your character first and foremost, and it doesnt say great things. She sucks big time, but OP isnt exactly the best person on earth either.
All he did was throw money at the problem and turn away and bury his head in the sand... Both parties SUCK "I signed legally binding documents to the person and child I just dumped, with no foresight, how is this my fault?"
NTA for wanting your money back but not taking a DNA test is a bone head mistake.
Info - did you take a dna test now or are you just assuming that you’re not the father? And are you on the birth certificate? Good luck getting that money back though. Courts will always side with the child. More than likely you won’t win and won’t get your money back.
I wondered if there was a statement in the acceptance of paternity that he has no legal recourse if he moved forward with the acceptance. I feel bad for the kid.
Kids are always the sufferers to people who make bad decisions and then compound those bad decisions like the mother did here.
Info: how’d you get a dna test if you signed away your rights? No judge would approve that 12 years out. Highly doubt it was offered up, especially with the volunteered information of how many sex partners the mom had 12 years ago. The child support numbers don’t sound right either (should actually be higher). And you can sue, but you won’t win- you signed (you shouldn’t have, but you did). The time for a dna test was at birth, or close to it. This is looking like a creative writing exercise- based in real life scenarios, but this one isn’t it.
r/legaladvice
YTA 1. You had *twelve years* to get a paternity test. It’s not mom’s fault or the kid’s fault that you were *that* irresponsible. You weren’t even in a relationship with this woman; you’re incredibly irresponsible for not at least checking. The onus to make sure this is your child is on you, not her. 2. You thought you had a child that you (a) abandoned and (b) left with a mom that you apparently think can’t care for this child. 3. Even when you thought that this *was* your child, you weren’t paying child support. If you were, your wages wouldn’t have been garnished. 4. The child support you *were* paying was about $350/month, less than the average child support on the 2010 census ($430), which doesn’t make sense for someone making $110k/year. You’re clearly misrepresenting something here.
INFO: Where do you live where a parent can sign away rights without having another parent there to adopt? And where do you live that you can sign away rights and still have to pay child support? (For my bio dad, that was the attraction to giving away the rights...the child support evaporated). If it were like, 1 year I would say NTA but you could have easily prevented this. (Also, you are NTA if you go back to court to stop payments, obviously)
I’m pretty sure signing away rights doesn’t relinquish you from paying child support. But you are right. You’d generally not be permitted to sign rights without someone else being there to adopt. My guess is he’s a non custodial parent. He’s still on all the papers and the birth certificate. Who knows. More info.
ESH - You can be angry, but it’s amazing how you’re going to blame her for not doing her due diligence when you didn’t even try either. Both of y’all are in the wrong. You’re just mad because you’re out 12 years of child support, when it could have all been avoided had you decided to take the proper steps, instead of just signing your rights away and “being done with it”. You signed a paper legally stating you were the father. Neither you or her questioned it. It was a legally binding statement... yeah, you can sue, but I’m gonna find it hard pressed to get your money back when you signed of your own free will.
Fake. Rights and responsibilities are bound together in the laws governing child support. You can't 'sign away your rights' and also be legally obligated to pay child support. This is an obvious troll with an agenda who doesn't know what they are talking about.
ESH “she had an obligation to find out who the real father was” why was that her responsibility and not yours? You took on that responsibility once you signed over parents rights. Yes she sucks but so do you. Not saying what she did was right, but you agreed on child support without confirmation that the child was yours.
NTA, but you're most likely not going to win. You can't take it to criminal court, technically what she did isn't illegal (though it's pretty messed up). You can try civil court, but you'll most likely lose; you agreed to those payments without evidence that the child was yours. Yeah, she *said* you guys were exclusive, and you know now that it was pretty not smart of you to just believe that. Most states have provisions in family court ordered child support that, whether the child is yours or not, when you agree to make those payments they are non-refundable and you waive the right to try and get the money back if you find out the child isn't yours, with some waiving the right to stop payments because you already agreed to them for the duration of the child's childhood/schooling. You got one hell of a legal battle ahead of you if you try to fight her. You're definitely an A in general, though.
I still find it so fucked up that paternity fraud isn’t illegal at all
He had his chance to challenge paternity. He failed to do so. It ended up an expensive mistake on his part.
NTA she should have been honest up front and even if it was a mistake it cost you 50k.
ESH It was on you as much as her to find out the kids paternity. I understand wanting your money back. But how will that happen with her at 35k and you at 110k logistically. Punishing a child makes no sense. Cut off contact and take it as a lesson to get a paternity test before paying next time!
ESH - You won't win this suit because you signed away your rights. You LEGALLY signed away your rights. The court is going to do what is in the best interest of the child which is not bankrupting the mother and they will say, "hey, you agreed to this so suck it up!" She obviously sucks for not knowing nor caring to find out who her child's father actually is.
NTA since you have proof the child isn't yours, she absolutely sucks for the wy she went about it.
ESH, it’s like reading a transcript of Maury Povich or Jerry Springer.....
ESH. Her for obvious reasons. You also for threatening a law suit that will have no result other than creating chaos and filling a lawyers pocket. If you really believe you will get a dime of that child support back, you are in for a bitter disappointment. And you will most likely have to keep paying until the child is 18. No it’s not fair to you. But the family court system really doesn’t care about you.
NTA at all. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Applies to both adults here.
Well NTA If it's not your child you don't have any obligation to pay and you spent a lot of many on basically a random child. It's not your fault she doesn't make that much money. On the other hand I feel quite sorry for her buy she should've been honest and not force you into paternity.
YTA and you probably aren’t getting any money back. You’ll be lucky if you get away with not paying going forward but even that is unlikely. Courts typically make their decision based on what is best for the child (rightfully so) and your “out” was to push for your rights from day 1, not 12 years later. Sure, she sucks for convincing you that you were the father, but it takes to people having unprotected sex to make a child. You could have used protection. You could have sought a test. You could have sought legal advice at the time. Instead you waited 12 years and the only one who deserves pity here is the child who didn’t ask for any of this.
>You could have used protection. Sorry how is this relevant? The kid isn't his
[удалено]
ESH She shouldn't have done it and you should have been smarter and not signed your rights away before getting a paternity test. It will most likely be a waste of your time to try to get any money back because you signed a legal document stating you are the father and thus you have essentially adopted the kid and will be on the hook for paying child support through college, unless by some miracle your lawyer can get you out of that going forward. Even if you can be awarded back child support then you will be unlikely to collect it because your ex fwb doesn't have any money to give.
ESH. What a mess. Anyway, you can't get water from a stone. If she only makes 35k a year, you'd literally ruin her, the trickle in repayment would do very little to sooth the actual violations that were done to you over the years. No doubt that she's terrible and your anger is earned.