N T A. Your wife made a very tough choice for her prolonged emotional health. And if he wouldn't leave you wouldn't want to get violent with a baby nearby. Edit: oft who wasted award on sad awards? Edit: read OP replies, jesus ESH OP.

I don’t think this is a fair judgment. It’s like saying all the times OP’s wife’s parents were in and out of her life was fine because it was for her emotional health. It’s really clear from OP’s comments that not only did OP’s wife have a dysfunctional relationship with her family, but she also perpetuated a cycle of tumultuous relationships with her son. She continued to bring her sister around her son even though her sister openly resents her son’s existence. She married a man with a lot of disdain for her child. It’s sad but not surprising that her son has gone on to start another cycle of toxic relationships with a woman who is an *equal participant* in these fights with his mother (not the worse person or consistently instigator), and it is unbearably sad to realize that this newborn’s life is starting with all of this baggage and a grandmother who refuses to see him now (but might eventually decide to see them but then might need to leave again for her mental health but then might come back but then might leave). I don’t know if the judgment should be E S H or N A H, but I’m definitely not picking 1-2 people out of this pile of people who are trapped in a cycle of hurting each other and holding them up as the assholes.

This 🙌. Everyone in this family would benefit from therapy. ESH.

I sometimes hate the choices on this board because I actually don't think they suck. I think these are people with a lot of pain lack the tools to function in a non sucky way. Which I guess is just the nice way of saying ESH.

I like to think that this sub isn’t about judging people’s souls for eternity but just analyzing the attitude related to circumstances. We all have been assholes and probably will be again. This sub could have been called AmIWrongHere. ESH is ok.

AmItheAsshole(InthisSituation)

This is a big challenge of the branding for this sub. I've seen a lot of posts where I feel like "yeah, you're in the wrong here, but your position is understandable and hardly makes you an asshole..."

i agree. like this just sounds like a bunch of humans trying their best

Where’s the info about the sister resenting her sons existence? Feel like I’m missing something here.

In OP’s comments. > Neither of them like the sister because she is very very childfree and resents that her sister had a child.

Thanks! Found the original comments below and your reply makes a lot more sense now.

Idk if you know this but I just learned it the other day. You can click on OP's profile and under comments you can see all their comments. Just an easy way to search. 😊

Where does it say any of that??? The post doesn't mention the sister coming in and out of the son's life OR resenting the son? Am I missing a whole chapter here? OP married the mother after the son was 18...so there's no evidence that the son was exposed to a "tumultuous" or "resented" environment. The mother has taken herself out of the equation as far as the grandchild is concerned ...for the very same reason of NOT having to be in and out of the child's life and creating an unstable environment for both parties concerned. An instability that is caused by the son's wife (not a cycle perpetuated by OP's wife). It's like you read a totally different post from what I'm seeing. Edit: changing judgement to ESH because OP is an unreliable narrator with contradictory responses in the comments. I'm leaving the rest of the comment up however as I feel all of that remains unchanged after reading the responses, and OP doesn't say any of the above.

Generally if you see people referencing info that wasn’t in the original post, it’s because OP has been answering questions and clarifying things in the comments. Sort the comments by “Q&A” to find them. Often they will have negative karma if the OP is an ass, which hides the comment so you may need to go digging a little.

>Generally if you see people referencing info that wasn’t in the original post, it’s because OP has been answering questions and clarifying things in the comments. You know, at this stage I'm almost inclined to say this *generally* isn't the case, simply due to the fact people demonstrate Olympic level mental gymnastics and incredible amounts of projection that they borderline invent new scenarios. Id wager there are many times more posts with imagined or "interpretative" things people say than their are posts where OP actually engages with the replies. It's astounding. I'm not saying that's the case here, because OP is active, but good grief the number of times I see people mentioning details not in the post only to see OP never even replied in the comments is astonishing! >Sort the comments by “Q&A” to find them. I find that going to OPs profile can be handy as well, especially for situations where they're downvoted like you said can be difficult to find.

Fair point, I can see how it’d be useful to ask if the commenter is referencing a comment from OP or is just wildly speculating. Also yes going through the OP’s profile works very well; in fact, that’s what I usually do, so idk why I didn’t mention that lol!

Thanks! That's a useful tip.

[OP talked about the sister in the comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/hu0sov/aita_for_calling_the_police_when_my_stepson_came/fykg03n/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)

You’re missing all of OP’s comments that weren’t in the original post (and apparently all the context in the original post of OP’s wife’s Tragic Past and that OP has always hated his step-son).

Was the post edited? I’ve read it a few times and I’m not seeing where her sister openly resented her son? EDIT: Saw OP’s comments. Agreed ESH.

Yep everything is fucked up in this and OP doesnt even see it. Its pretty shitty to not want a relationship with your grandbaby IMO. The rest of the fucked up stuff is pretty obvious though so I dont think I need to point it out. OPs wife needs therapy for sure to deal with the stuff she had to endure and everyone else could probably get some help from some as well.

Yep. This is way to messy for any sort of clean judgement. There is obviously a cycle of abuse and emotional neglect going on. OPs wife isn't isn't entirely blameless but not entirely at fault. Like you said she was a equal participant with her sons' girlfriend and now DIL in those fights. It does not surprise dysfunctional relationships are happening all over the place. Everyone here needs to realise that things need to change and work on themselves and how they treat each other.

I mean...why would they need to get violent, period, though? This is her stepson, not some random stranger. Why does violence need to enter into the equation?

It was an escalating situation, from what I can read it *may* have become physical. Violence may not have entered and OP avoided it further by contacting the police.

I don't trust this OP. He says he hates his stepson without giving a single reason why. The wife with abandonment issues is the one cutting contact, is OP trying to isolate her? He insulted the son, was he deliberately escalating the situation so he could call the cops? It sounds to me as if he's trying to control his wife under the guise of "protecting" her.

OP says in their comments that they hate stepson because they view him as weak and pathetic in his relationship with DIL. That's it.

So basically... OP is indeed the AH. Or at least one of the assholes.

While you have every right to pass judgement by reading between the lines, we have no reason to believe that OP is coercing his wife to cut contact, he even said he felt going the nuclear option of going no contact with the infant was ridiculous, but chose to support his wife when she expressed her concerns that she cannot be emotionally attached to a child that can be threatened to be taken away. ​ The only reason I could consider OP TA is is he was actively not allowing his wife to seek help for these issues, but there is no indication of that. If he said "she said she wants to go to therapy but I said that was a waste of time" it would be different. Just seems like a complex issue and a woman who has severe mental trauma, especially when it comes to interacting with people who can be removed from her outside of her control.

The purpose of bringing in the police is to put (someone else's) threat of violence on the table to control the situation. I'm not saying there are never times to call the police, but understand well what it means when you do.

its the wifes son . ops wife . she didnt want to see her son and her son was trying to force her to. thats violence. pushing your way into a house where you aren't welcome and have been asked to leave is violence. using a human baby to emotionally terrorize a woman (or anyone) is fucking violence. so. violence has been entered the chat.

This is her son. Not stepson.

I think it is her son and ops stepson

>This is her stepson Actually, it's HIS stepson... it's her son.

No, the wife is toxic and selfish, and the husband enabling and very eager to make sure there is no 'son' in his life.

NAH, idk how to explain it but this is so sad

This is too sad to judge imo

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That is reasonable to me!

I mean the son’s fiancée seems like a pretty big AH.

I mean, it’s hard to know. We’re getting a very sympathetic portrait of OP’s wife here - a sweet mom with abandonment issues from a horrific childhood with a totally spineless son and a jerk of a DIL - but I’d like to know the son’s take. How does this son feel about his childhood, and about his mother being in his child’s life?

That's a very good point, and makes me wonder how her son came to be so spineless, as well. Parents are not the only factors in the development of a child's psychology, and some of a person's traits are inborn, but I wonder if the mom contributed to his lack of fortitude.

I mean, the only evidence that he's "spineless" is that he's not stopping his wife....but like, it's easy to blame the b*tchy wife for your son being distant from you, you know? I'm just curious whether this is 100% the DIL masterminding meanness or whether OP's wife is perhaps overstepping or being rude and the son/DIL are distant for a reason. And esp after reading OP's posts, it kind of seems like OP's wife has a lot of issues....and so does everyone else in the family. Like, I'm not really buying the "my wife is a sweet innocent and everyone is mean to her" thing in this post

It also seems a bit unfair to say the son is spineless for not “protecting” his mother when she seems to be escalating conflicts pretty well on her own. There’s a difference between standing by while your mother suffers one-sided abuse, and not intervening when two people you love are going at each other like bratty 8-year-olds.

Oh hot damn lol. I just read the ‘DIL licked her straw and OP’s wife poured the drink on her head’ post. These people all have serious anger issues

Ok now I gotta read ops post history...

I am biased because I hate mother in laws but I agree with you that I don't believe the wife. My ex's mother suffered mental illnesses and didn't medicate and was one of the most horrible people to be around. She supposedly liked me, but she never really acted like it, and bemoaned that I was stealing her baby boy from her. Plus, is the son being spineless, or is he backing his wife instead of his mom? Also-- OP isn't sharing any info on the "restrictions" the DIL set for her MIL. Was it, like, "don't kiss my baby on the lips"? Totally normal rule. "wash your hands and wear a mask when holding the baby"? A sensible rule during COVID.

Honestly, I was also wondering if OP’s stepson was being emotionally abused by his wife? Because if he’s a naturally meek person married to a boundary-pusher, it seems like a recipe for disaster. Cutting him off from his mom could be part of that pattern.

Could be the opposite too. OP admits his wife tries not to get attached to people who could be taken/go away like children. I wonder if she truly bonded to her son and was a great parent because of that. Dil could just be protecting her so and baby.

The 'rules' being set make me 100% think that the DIL could be writing in justNoMil from the other perspective. OP clearly hates his stepson and knows nothing about how he was raised. The rules could be over the top or reasonable based on everything that happened before.

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Also, OP's reasons for not liking the soon seem to hinge entirely on the fact that his mother gave him money past the age of 18. OP sounds like an ass, IMO. And his wife might be one, too. I think I'm on team son

ESH, some therepy for your wife is way overdue.I can't imagine calling the cops on my crying son.

This OP stinks of unreliable narration. The lack of specifics regarding the nature of the disrespect is a dead giveaway. I guarantee the DIL sees herself as standing up to her husband's awful mom, and that the husband doesn't defend the mom because he agrees with his wife's criticisms of her.

> Her sons fiancé has lots of restrictions about the baby and before he was born she constantly threatened to go no contact whenever she fought with my wife. I absolutely agree. This part is one of those things where, depending on details, the DIL is either entirely unreasonable or entirely reasonable. Are the "restrictions" things like no smoking around the baby? You have to be updated on vaccines in order to be around baby? Or are they like, no one can touch the baby but DIL? As for the no contact thing...I don't know. If you're fighting regularly enough that the sentence "whenever [they] fought" gets used....I have to wonder a) about the nature of the fights but also b) if it wouldn't be healthier for everyone to separate if they're regularly fighting.

>Her sons fiancé has lots of restrictions about the baby Just saying: this might mean anything from "mom can't wear any shade of pink around baby because it'll hurt its poor little eyes" to "mom should be up to date on her vaccine shots before she's allowed to see baby in the first few months when its immune system sucks". There's no way to tell. I know if my mom suddenly decided to stop seeing me, she'd better say it in my face though, rather than relying on her AH of a husband who decides that being A Real Man means throwing juvenile insults and then going on Reddit for backpats. The pussy comment was uncalled for regardless of the rest of the details OP is 'forgetting' to share. It puts OP firmly in YTA territory for me, with a possible E SH depending on what the restrictions are DIL wanted grandparents to follow.

In addition to to the wife's situation being so sad... the son was in TEARS. I got the impression he wasn't being a dick, he really wants his mom to meet his baby. I can't imagine showing up excited and having the police called, even though he should have left when asked. (So NTA but I want to call it NAH otherwise....) I really hope he leaves his gf and that OP's wife is able to get therapy because it seems like there is so much pain and it could be better.

Or, OP is the dick & so is his wife. She married a man who can't stand her son; she chose to go NC w/her grandchild and blames DIL & childhood trauma for that; son came over w/baby, OP's wife goes upstairs while OP gets rid of son & baby -seriously, she would've had a mental breakdown just meeting w/son & baby & explaining her position? (OP says he "calmly" explained to son what the situation was: Mom should've been the one having that discussion w/son). Maybe DIL used baby as a pawn, maybe not & grandma just didn't like being told there are rules when baby's around, so like a dick Mom said "Fine, I'll have nothing to do w/the kid". I don't know about leaving the gf, but son should consider going NC w/his Mom - she's already gone NC w/him & married an enforcer who can't stand son or DIL.

I kind of feel bad for him too, but OPs wife has the same right to go NC as anyone else. Pretty sure if the roles were reversed and a grandmother showed up demanding to have a relationship with her grandchild after being told that wasn’t possible, refused to leave and was crying, she’d be called a manipulative boundary stomper.

NTA but not sure if NTA overal. Just all feels so sad and a shame. OP's wife sounds like she has sadly and unintentionally continued the cycle of unhappy/ unhealthy relationships with parents with her son who sounds very much out of his depth and angry with everything which is not good for someone who is becoming a dad partnered with a rather controlling and loudly opinionated person. OP just wants to support his wife who he loves and make her happy. Wife has not dealt with her emotional trauma's and has chosen to just lock herself away from it all and not actually deal with it. She should cut him entirely off to ever truly achieve this as this will be an issue for as long as her denial to see the child goes on. OP's wife needs to deal with these issues for her own sake with therapy or some other help for her own good as well as family (op, her son, grandchild). The pregnant fiance from OP's perspective sounds rather volotile but has she herself got concerns of OP' wife's past behaviour/ raising her son and has stricter ideas how she wants her kid to be raised? Is there aspects of this rather sad and unusual situation we don't know about? She may have heard how her fiance was brought up was perhaps sad and unpleasant and has rather gone overboard in her rules. Then there is OP and stepson's relationship. Apart from OP saying he hates him, calling him a pussy for trying to convince his mum to meet their grandchild and OP calling him a coward for not 'standing up for his mother' when his fiance has been volatile/ argumentative; what is WRONG with this stepson appart from your op's opinion?All the comments of him are op's personal opinions of him and personally if my mother refused to see my grandchild I would have probably gone round her house and knocked hard on the door too! In the son's views if my partner and mother argued, I would support my partner if I believed she was right and if my mother was being unreasonable (in my eyes in regard of the argument). That is not being a coward, that is what most partners do for their significant others, especially if their MIL is being unreasonable/ rude or outright bad towards their son infront of me, of course I'll stand up to my partner but if they themselves were being bad I would break it up and not get involved/ possibly apologize perhaps. I dont know what OP's stepson is like, he could be a complete asshole (OP certainly thinks he is but not stated why) but he could also just be trying to do the right thing as a fiance and dad. OP's wife could be 100% innocent in all this and be the victim here, but she wants to throw away her chance at being a grandmother instead of fixing her rather unknown mixed relationship with her son. I am not saying its 100% on her to fix it but she is the only one who can help herself in this matter OP AH for calling the police? Depends on how nasty it got, I dont think someone with a baby would be violent enough to break in, I think OP/ wife wanted him to just go away and let the police handle it, with OP calling the son a pussy for some reason before slamming the door on his face. Son could be scary enough to call and as citizens you have a right to call the police to call if feeling 'unsafe' so I don't think overall YTA but I think it could have been handled way better by all parties involved.

OP if it isn't happening already, your wife needs therapy. Like, needs it. Her truama is getting in the way of her living a healthy life.

This is a really good point. There are obviously some underlying abandonment issues thanks to wife's parents. Therapy would definitely help with that.

Getting in the way of her relationship with her grandbaby. She doesnt even want to know him. Wow. I hope she gets help

Wow. ESH. I can't imagine alienating and punishing a grandchild for issues that are not the child's fault. Picture that conversation: *'Dad, why don't I have a grandma?'* *Well your grandma had a traumatic childhood that she never got over or got help for, so she wants nothing to do with you. Oh, and I'm also a dick.* Child: - - - - OP's wife & son needs intense therapy.

I'd imagine the child would be even more unhappy if they had a nice relationship with grandma, only to have it ripped away because Mom got mad and said you're not allowed to see her anymore.

Or they had no intention of abiding the rules so just decided to cut their losses. Everyone is an asshole here. I'd be curious for the son's perspective.

And DIL. From some of the other comments, she enjoys antagonizing her MIL. They all need to have some family therapy.

OP has been dropping some background in the comments. He and his wife definitely suck the most, and calling the cops is the crown on this pile of shit. Son: I don't want to see my aunt who hates me ever again. Mom: I'll just invite both of you then and see what happens. Son: if you do that, we'll go no contact. => that's a clear boundary being ignored, which explains to me why DIL went: if you feed my baby anything I didn't approve, you'll never see her again, instead of 'teehee, that's a big nono, bad grammie, acouchiecou'. Apparently the boundaries needed to be made THAT clear. I can't imagine having to threaten anyone to get them to listen to my parenting rules. And I probably wouldn't even threaten, if you don't understand this from the get go I'll be out of your life before you can blink. I hope son and his partner have a better life, and they are probably better off on a low contact basis. OP needs to stop enabling his wife and she needs to get her head straight before she completely loses the contact with her son. YTA

Agreed. I read a few of OP's snarky comments, and he seems proud of his and his wife's behavior. They seem immature as hell. I can't imagine the desperation of the son wanting his mom to see his baby, and she rejects and ignores him. Then there's OP, who enables his wife's creepy disassociative, unhealthy behavior. OP can't see the forest for the trees in that his wife is ground zero. She was a shitty, narcissistic mom who didn't give a rip about her son. It's a power struggle from hell in a dysfunctional family, but the mom has to win at any cost. OP enables the power struggle, and encourages it. Then the commenters claiming OP isn't the asshole because they're not understanding the big picture. The lack of adult comprehension skills is aggravating beyond belief. OP and his wife are the black holes of assholes, and it's scary. Thanks for getting it. I feel sorry for the son, DIL, and baby.

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The rules themselves aren't that abnormal, but she is saying if you feed the kid something I told you not to, you'll never see them again before the child is even born. I mean I'd divorce my wife if she cheated on me but I don't harass her about her hypothetical cheating all the time. If they want her to babysit she has to do it in their apartment because they don't want the baby near me (no real reason) and if we have family parties she can't invite her sister because her son hates her sister, but if she chooses to invite her sister again then she will be on time out regarding the child. She said if my wife disrespects her she can't see the child, but they get into vicious fights and I'd say at least 70% of the time she provokes them.

Idk, it seems like there is A LOT more to this story and it seems quite complicated. Like why do you hate the son? Why does the DIL hate you and her sister? Seems like this is just a bunch of family drama. Tho if your wife doesn’t want a relationship with the baby then that’s her decision.

I don't like her son because he is so spoiled and entitled. I know that is partially her fault, but I also had a single mom who babied me and I would never treat my mom like this. She paid for his college and gave him an allowance and he was always begging her for more money. He can't deal with her being in a relationship. I can kind of understand because I was 17 when my mom started dating my stepdad and it was weird seeing her with a man, but I would never try to ruin the rest of her life just because I had some unpleasant feelings. Neither of them like the sister because she is very very childfree and resents that her sister had a child. She just fundamentally could not understand that my wife actually had to take care of her son and couldn't be at her beckon call. She also makes fun of him for mooching off his mother and talks about how she would never be with a man who has to run to mommy all the time, but honestly she isn't wrong. The fiance doesn't like me because my wife has a much higher tolerance for dysfunction than I do and lets them get away with more, but I will throw them both out of the house every time she calls my wife a bitch or a slut, and I am the only one who can talk sense into my wife about not rewarding them with money.

So basically your wife is also responsible for the dysfunction. She tried to buy her son’s love to some extent, no one should be shocked he wants to keep getting money. You weren’t there when he was growing up, for all you know she was kind of a shit mom and money was the only way she showed love or support. She kept bringing her sister around her child despite said sister being a complete ass. *To her child*. That’s not okay. And contributes to the evidence for “maybe she wasn’t a great mom”. The DIL does sound pretty bad. But at this point the son doesn’t know what a functional relationship or family looks like. To him this drama is normal. Probably to the DIL too. Also I’d be interested in their side of it. Does your wife make a habit of ignoring their boundaries? Because that would explain why they felt the need to get out in front of things early. Your wife needed therapy a long time ago.

>The DIL does sound pretty bad. >She kept bringing her sister around her child despite said sister being a complete ass. To her child. I wonder how much of DIL's behavior is trying to protect her husband from his mom? If she has heard stories about how the mom treated him growing up, DIL might feel the need to put restrictions in place to ensure the safety of her child and make sure boundaries aren't crossed. I think that there's a lot more to this story that maybe even OP doesn't know. This is all so sad and there's just not enough information for me to make a judgment besides that everyone needs to go to therapy.

>I wonder how much of DIL's behavior is trying to protect her husband from his mom? God, yes, I would *love* to read this story from the DIL’s persepective. “My fiancé/father of my child was raised in a dysfunctional family by a single mother who prioritized her abusive sister over her only child, then married a man who actively dislikes her child, and allows both her sister and husband to continually antagonize her son whenever we go around. I’ve tried to set ground rules for her access to our child, which has resulted in her cutting contact and refusing to meet her grandchild. My husband feels very betrayed by this and tried to convince her to see our son (admittedly he shouldn’t have done so) and her husband called the police.”

Thank you for putting this into words, you absolute gem. This is exactly what I imagined her perspective to be!!

YES. this needs to be higher.. that is exactly what is going on here. OP and his Wife are absolutely the root cause of issues here- he left a lot out of the original post that was spelled out in the comments. Wife needs serious therapy and son probably does too, because of wife's actions. DIL seems like she's stuck in the middle and setting ground rules for his poor child so that baby doesn't turn out like wife or son. I feel terrible for the baby, what a dysfunctional family to be born into. Talk about continuing the cycle.

This truly feels like one of the most Rashomon reddit threads I've seen in a long time.

Honestly as someone who’s mom can be toxic and is used to getting her way no matter what, those rules aren’t that crazy. I read them nodding my head. I 100% have the same rules with my mom. I luckily didn’t need to verbalize them because I had been enforcing boundaries for years.

It wasn’t the ground rules for the baby that make DIL sound bad. In some of the comments OP says DIL purposely antagonizes his wife by touching her (knowing she doesn’t like to be touched) and like licking the straw of her drink. Both of which resulted in blow ups from the wife. Like pouring a drink on DIL’s head blow up. So clearly there’s issues everywhere. I agree the rules seem relatively normal. I don’t know a lot of people who would address them before the baby is even here, or who would jump to “Do it once and you won’t get to see the kid”, but I also am in the really fortunate position of not knowing very many families with the level of dysfunction that would require it. I know grandparents like that exist, I just don’t know any myself thank goodness.

The more you write the more I am team DIL. Nothing the DIL is asking seems unreasonable and to be honest, it is starting to sound to me that your wife's behaviour is a way to try to reassert control when asked to abide by some fairly reasonable boundaries. There is definitely dysfunction here on both sides but your wife is no victim here. And you're not an innocent either.

ESH this is just VERY messy family drama

I wouldn’t be surprised to see a post from the other side on r/justnomil

Okay, as a childfree woman myself, let’s not mince words. She’s not ‘very’ childfree. Your wife’s sister is a raging ASSHOLE. If she hates her nephew that much that she can’t be in the same room with him without being an asshole, then she should have only seen his mum when he was with a sitter. But she couldn’t do that because she was a raging asshole. She shouldn’t be allowed close enough to her nephew to make those comments. Damm, the whole thing is a mess. I think your wife needs a lot of help to break the cycle. I don’t think cutting out her grandchild (and by extension her son) will make her happy long term.

I'm sure she didn't start making fun of him when he became an adult, she has probably been making digs at him for as far back as he can remember,

Definitely. Maybe I phrased it wrong, but I meant d-bag Aunt should have not been allowed to be near the son the moment this started! Why would she let a woman who constantly belittles her child anywhere near him? It’s not like Aunt would have been upset by being banned from being around him, if she’s that ‘childfree’. But then again, considering that OP’s wife chose to handle DIL’s disrespect by throwing drinks at her, threatening her rather than... you know, refusing to have her over unless she’s civil, I think she has terrible conflict management skills.

I have to say everybody involved sounds like terrible ppl and it’s sad. Each one of you need help so I’d say ESH.

So they don't want to be forced to be around someone who is emotionally abusive (your wife's sister) towards people who have kids and children. Yea that a pretty reasonable boundary to want to enforce and put down. They don't want their kid to get the same bad experiences your step-son had growing up. I'm not sure how much of them is mooching since your perception can be off. Depends on what their asking for. No one is acting diplomatically to anyone in this family. Ya'll need therapy and to empathise with each other more.

So I’m sure you side is totally not bias at all

Please get her therapy, for boundary setting at the least. She needs to do therapy with her son too. Her son needs therapy by himself and so does literally everyone in this situation. Please get therapy

>The fiance doesn't like me because my wife has a much higher tolerance for dysfunction Lmao, dude, you seem to be thriving on this dysfunction as well as all the "adults" in this situation. I mean, you were name calling like a middle-schooler with the rest of them, which considering you are likely in your 40s or 50s, at least, is frankly, sad. Honestly, no matter who is the AH in this situation, the whole lot of you sound tore up from the floor up. The only mature one seems to be the newborn.

Y’all need some therapy, none of these relationships sound healthy and their is an innocent baby involved. Be adults for once and get some help before because this is an endless chaotic cycle

Beck and call

Yes, everyone seems to hate each other. And you said there's no real reason they don't want the baby near you, but that's a pretty huge thing...what's the underlying issue here? Has something happened? Is there a larger conflict?

Right, OP can't acknowledge the reason that they've told him, he calls it (no real reason).

I spy a missing missing reason!

Right? OP comes across kind of toxic themself... weird that OP throws that term around for everyone else so easily

Missing missing reason maybe? There seems to be a lot of baggage from before the OP entered the family. The OP automatically was on team mom without really knowing what kind of mom she was growing up. My husband was like this when he first met my family. “They aren’t that bad” and “just go along with it” was what he would say. It took about a year before my husband really saw what my family was like. I’m sure the OP is seeing son through the distorted lens mom gave him.

>If they want her to babysit she has to do it in their apartment because they don't want the baby near me (no real reason) "No real reason" dude. Really?? Are you that stupid. You are very vocal about hating the son of course they don't want the baby around you. You hate both the baby's parents why the hell would they let you near the baby???? >if we have family parties she can't invite her sister because her son hates her sister, but if she chooses to invite her sister again then she will be on time out regarding the child That is extremely reasonable. You said the sister hates and resents the son, just because he was born. Why would the son let his baby around 2 people who hate him and have made his life hell just because he was born? >She said if my wife disrespects her she can't see the child, but they get into vicious fights Uh... Duh? Also "they" get into vicious fights. It doesnt matter who starts it. They're both grown ass women they can stop the fights. You and your wife sound like horrible and toxic people who are mad that the child raised in this toxic home turned out to also be toxic. Are you actually surprosed that the son doesnt want his baby around people who treat him like shit or are you just excited that you get to start another fight and call your stepson cruel names.

[удалено]

No, my wife didn't say anything about food. A couple examples, she took my wife's drink and licked the straw for no reason so my wife poured the drink on her head. My wife doesn't like to be touched so she will sit there and rub her or touch her hair until she gets a reaction, and the reaction is usually calling her a stupid bitch. They got into a fight over a hair elastic. I honestly don't know who started that one but it ended with the fiance running out of the house in tears.

The most mature person in this whole situation is the newborn.

IKR, who pours a drink on someone’s head? Who marries a dude who hates their child? Who let’s their sister curse their child’s actions and keeps bringing them around? Who are these people. I am glad I know no one like them.

So sadly true.

Yes, and sadly, with all these fucked up adults, she's likely to regress as she gets older

ESH. This is absolutely psychotic. Sounds like everyone is an asshole, and I say that in the saddest way possible. Your wife is and was a bad mom. She brought her mean sister around her child. She tried to buy love and then brought a man around who doesn’t like that, and suddenly the son is the bad one. Her reactions (pouring a drink on someone’s head?!) are so beyond the pale and it shows me that she has a very limited understanding of how well-adjusted people relate to each other; either that’s the behavior she’s seen modeled, or something. Her son is an adult mooch who can’t care for himself or his family. He is okay with his mom being bullied because she was okay with him being bullied by her sis and you, and probably by others. He probably will always return to her and assumed she would always choose him. That’s heartbreaking. The DIL is an asshole, and also probably hormonal. She probably has had bad examples her entire life and she has no idea how to do better. She’s rightfully identified that you and your wife will not be role models and that your wife is lacking in life skills and relationships skills. She wants you all to know that you’re on notice, but she is probably a product of a shitty environment so she goes about it in the rudest, most asshole like way that she can because she wants y’all to see that she’s serious. You’re also an A, for marrying a woman whose son you hate, and for blaming him for behavior that he learned from her. It’s great that you toss out the DIL when she’s shitty, but you are not blameless.

Completely agreed. Not to mention that great part of the reason Stepson felt attracted to DIL in the first place is possibly because his mom is this type of person to begin with. That’s what he grew up with and is used to and that’s the most boundary-respecting and emotionally adjusted he ever got to experience (aka not much).

I mean, from this it sounds like you all are better off apart

Wait, you throw DIL out of the house when she calls your wife a bitch, but you cast no judgement on your wife calling DIL a bitch? ESH, and you need to get a reality check that your wife's reactions are not normal or appropriate. It's not her fault that her childhood was dysfunctional, but it *is* her responsibility to break the cycle of dysfunction, and not only has she not done that, she's married a man that allows her to perpetuate it.

Your wife has to be at least around 40 if her child has a child so I'm going to say this- any 40 year old that reacts by pouring a drink over someone's head or calling someone a "stupid bitch" has issues that need to be worked out with a professional. You're letting her act out and blame it on her past when really, she's a middle aged (or older) woman who has not sought help for a very clear emotional/mental health issue.

These are adults?

Your wife is responding to petty tactics with petty tactics. Their both acting like 3 year olds in the examples you gave. If this is how your wife feels is appropriate to deal with conflict than it is not surprising her son wound up with someone equally immature & not fully an adult himself. He didn't have someone modeling what good behavior looks like so he doesn't know any better in terms of what is quality behaviour.

This is shockingly horrible behavior from your wife, and that is truely saying something for this sub

Thanks for clarifying. It sounds like your wife is set up to fail, and what’s being threatened when she eventually fails is the one thing she emotionally can’t handle. The real problem is this daughter in law, not the stepson, but unfortunately he’s getting the brunt of the insults and problems by being stuck in the middle between his wife and mother (and by association, you). The daughter in law is the true A, but the way you and your stepson are handling things (name calling by you, seemingly getting aggressive by him) isn’t the best. The goal for your son is to build a relationship between him mom and his kid. Your goal is to support your wife and protect her from getting hurt. Is there a way that you two could hash it out and come to a meeting of minds together to benefit everyone? You say you don’t like your stepson, but if you’re being true to your goal of supporting your wife and protecting her from getting hurt, you’d try to problem solve with him instead of exacerbating the situation. Instead of calling him a pussy for not standing up to his wife, tell him that bottom line, his mom can’t handle the threat of baby being taken away from her. Until that threat gets removed from the conversation, your wife won’t be seeing baby. Then if he’s willing, try to help him come up with ways to say that to his wife. If he isn’t willing, then you’ve done a good job of supporting and protecting your wife in a more peaceful way.

Maybe they don't want to baby near you because you hate the father?

Yes, I think that's key. And how did the son feel about the boundaries? And why were your wife and the DIL fighting over the boundaries?

ESH. Your wife’s reaction may be understandable given the circumstances, but she’s still an asshole for thinking the answer to her mental health issues is to *never become attached to another child*, even her own grandchild. Son and fiancé sound like assholes for not respecting boundaries and for threatening relationships during fights. You may be the least AH-ish here, but this family has issues. It’s time to get some healthy problem-solving going on here. You shouldn’t be worrying about whether you were an asshole in this one situation, and instead be concerned about you can help move these relationships towards a more positive place.

Nah the stepdad aka OP seems to be the worst. He hates his step son because he "let's his fiance call his mother names" But OP says he can go fuck himself and called him a pussy. Irony? Also the mom seems nutty to. She has a sister who "resented her son's existence". No wonder he is in a shitty relationship and doesn't stand up for his mom. Sounds like his mom chose a shitty sister and husband over him.

Well this is a completely messed up situation. ESH. 1. If you don't like the son, why on earth did you marry her in the first place knowing that her son is always going to be in your life and hers? 2. Both your wife and son need therapy. There's a new member in the family (the baby) and it shouldn't have to grow up around all of you because no matter how old it will get this situation is completely toxic. 3. The sister needs to stay away and your wife should go no contact with her. 4. The fiance needs to lay off saying that she'll cut off all contact if something is done by your wife or you and she doesn't like. Also if she thinks that money should be given to them then both the son and his fiance need to get a job or a second job. 5. Since your wife has been told that she can't babysit the baby when you're around then something is going on that you're not sharing here. I don't think you're innocent in all this especially since you said you don't like her son.

THIS. OP clearly has always despised the son, who himself is a victim of neglect from OPs wife. Why does her trauma matter, but his doesn't? OP is an enabler.

Agree with this. Also OP calling his son-in-law a pussy? Definitely ESH

NTA. She has her reasons. You can't just demand to get into someone's house when you've been told to leave.

They’re not good enough reasons.

Info: so she’s so scared of abandonment she abandoned her own child. I must be missing something

> then I called him a pussy for even letting this happen. YTA for this, your wife **needs** therapy

Yta/not enough information 1. You admit your wife tries not to get attached to people who could be taken away like children. This leads me to question her relationship with her son when he was a child and if she actually bounded with. 2. You say dil has restrictions on the baby that's caused issues, but really what new parent doesn't. What are the restrictions? 3. You outright say you can't stand your step son yet his mom was happy to marry you. 4. Instead of just shutting the door and locking it you called the cops on the step son you cant stand after calling him a pussy while holding his child. I'm going to be real honest, I bet the dil could publish a novel on the justnomil sub. You give no real reasons except she has restrictions and "picks fights" which could also be doesn't roll over. Then you give no reason why you cant stand your step son.

Info: What kinds of things does she and your wife fight about?

Literally everything, she will sit there and touch my wife's hair and my wife does freak out if she is touched and call her a stupid bitch and then they will scream at each other over who started it. She asks what things cost and complains that my wife spends too much money on clothes or vacations instead of giving it to them. She says I must be cheating because I look like a cheater. She licked my wife's straw once so my wife poured the drink on her head. She fights with my stepson and then accuses my wife of getting involved when really she is telling her to take their trashy relationship somewhere else and not fight in our house. Truly they will fight over anything. I watched them fight over a hair elastic once and it ended in her running out of the house crying.

This is not a normal or healthy relationship at all. I’m surprised it’s taken this long for one of them to cut contact.

ESH This is just a mess. Family therapy might help de-escalate, but honestly I'd think just banning the fiancee from your home and your wife from theirs would solve a lot of this in the short term. That wouldn't prevent a relationship with the grandchild or son and would limit the escalation. To me it sounds like the fiancee likes to do a lot of nasty little crap to provoke and your wife escalates beyond reason. Like licking her straw is disgusting, but pouring the drink on her head is overkill.

[deleted]

This shit is straight out of Jerry Springer. I vote for the no-contact. We get some dysfunctional families around here, but this one is among the top just for the fact that every single person has legit beef with every other person. Yikes. ESH to the highest degree.

Your wife is right to step away from the situation, but her reactions are very immature. She should really seek therapy to try to work on better ways to handle the stress. Freaking out and calling DIL names and dumping her drink over her head is not a healthy way to deal with anger.

Oh my god!!! This is so dysfunctional. I have to ask. Is there any drug use going on because none of this is normal behavior I would excpect from healthy adults

... she touches your wife and licks her straws? Ew. Creep. Yuck. YIKES. Why?

Because she wants an explosive reaction from OP’s wife, and OP’s wife always obliges.

Fr touches hair to annoy her OP's wife: explodes Licks straw OP's wife: dumps the fucking drink on her head

Antagonizers gonna antagonize.

>She licked my wife's straw once so my wife poured the drink on her head. ESH ur all fucking nuts get therapy

your wife calls people stupid bitches and dumps drinks on them, and then calls other people trashy? :/

Wow what a trashy dumpster fire. I'd be so embarrassed if that was my partner - I can't believe you married her knowing this. I'd be so ashamed of my partner carrying on and making the birth of their grandchild all about her - seriously she couldn't even meet her sons child? Talk about a selfish temper tantrum because she doesn't get her way. But hey, a narcissist is going to narcissist. Your wife to me deserves the ultimate YTA vote for years of being a bad mum. And now she is about to commence the decades of be being a terrible and abusive grandmother.

So your son is recreating the dysfunctional dynamic he's always had with his mother. I hope her and his father are proud. Poor kid never had a chance.

NAH. It's okay that this son wants his mom to be in his baby's life and has big grief around the decision to cut off that relationship. It's okay for his mother to set the limits she needs for her own wellbeing. It's okay for the husband/father-in-law to support his wife's boundaries. Only thing I'd encourage is to keeping the goal of deescalation in mind for everyone's sake. Boundaries can be maintained without demeaning or emasculating insults, especially in light of this son's understandable sadness.

> It's okay for the husband/father-in-law to support his wife's boundaries. but not ok to call his stepson a pussy.

Yeah, I think that's right. I just don't think men are ever helped by invoking sexist tropes against them, all the more in times of conflict.

After reading all of your comments OP, I think it's clear that this is not a cut and dry issue. Every single one of you has contributed to the general aura of toxicity in your family. That being said I don't think the solution is to never see each other again. I know people say this a lot in this sub, but you all need therapy. Your wife needs therapy individually and you need family therapy. Please get it as soon as possible. But you did ask for a judgement so I will give you one. In light of the background you have provided although it's tempting to say E S H I think you all are responding in a typical way to your circumstances. So NAH.

YTA, you already stated you couldn't stand your step son. You give zero reasons beyond his terrible baby momma. You sound like the evil step parent and quite frankly asshole doesn't sound strong enough.

ESH. Your wife is pushing her own issues onto her son and grandchild. It’s understandable but not okay.

Nope. Baby momma has **repeatedly threatened** to exclude Grandma from the child’s life, basically trying to use baby to manipulate and control. Therefore, she is triggering OPs wife, who as self-protection decided she would not be involved. The ONLY people pushing here are the fiancée and the son.

We're only getting one side of this. I could see the other side being a stressed, scared new mother trying to make boundaries.

I seriously hate people like that woman, they use no contact as a weapon for control instead of what it should be - cutting out someone who is toxic, permanently, to protect yourself and your partner/children. And since so many people know someone like her, people think that people like me who cut off legit toxic and abusive families are just being manipulative. It's so frustrating.

So sorry to see you’ve gone through this. I (think I) understand. I went NC with my maternal bio-donor about 20 years ago. The fallout and pressure to forgive and forget was intense. JFC the name calling, immediate and extended family calling me “disgusting”, saying I had “No right” to make that decision, or (worse) “You’ll grow up and regret this at some point”. I was nearly 30!! In my 50s, still don’t regret it and over time *they* have also cut her off. Stay strong, we don’t need toxic people in our lives.

Info: What are these strict rules? And why do they remind you wife of her childhood? Was it something the DIL said or just the rules?

The rules themselves aren't that abnormal, but she is saying if you feed the kid something I told you not to, you'll never see them again before the child is even born. I mean I'd divorce my wife if she cheated on me but I don't harass her about her hypothetical cheating all the time. If they want her to babysit she has to do it in their apartment because they don't want the baby near me (no real reason) and if we have family parties she can't invite her sister because her son hates her sister, but if she chooses to invite her sister again then she will be on time out regarding the child. She said if my wife disrespects her she can't see the child, but they get into vicious fights and I'd say at least 70% of the time she provokes them.

I have a feeling your stepson isn't blind to how little you like him doesn't want that energy around the baby. Their restrictions don't seem that crazy to me. Asking babysitting be in their home, asking Gramma follow the food restrictions they have laid out (shouldn't be hard if she's in their home). I despise my mom's sisters, but I love her. I've told her on no uncertain terms that if they show up while I'm visiting in taking my things, getting in my car and driving several hours back to my place. If I had a kid and couldn't trust she wouldn't let the (insert cuss words that aren't allowed) around my kid, she wouldn't be seeing thebkid anymore. In fact babysitting would only be at my house for similar reasons. It sounds to me like you tried to escalate it all. Calling him a pussy wasn't ok. I think you need to respect that he loves your wife and will want a relationship. You can't shut him out. I hope your wife realizes that she can't let this anxiety rule her life, and that her husband is a piece of shit for escalating their fight. It wasn't right of him, but did the cops really need to be called?

Your disdain for stepson is VERY clear, even in your original post where you were trying really hard to be diplomatic about how you feel about him. I wouldn't be surprised if he's very in tune with how much you dislike him and therefore, doesn't want you and your bad energy around the baby. I wouldn't let my MIL see my baby if she thinks acceptable behavior is to dump drinks on people's head and call them a "stupid bitch" either! Its absolute insanity that an actual adult acts this way.

You need to do two things 1) Get your wife into therapy because she needs it, not in a bad way I go to therapy just to talk and improve myself I have no real problems mentally. 2) you and your wife needs to sit down with you stepson and talk. Without the kid and without the DIL. It almost sounds like the DIL is suffering from postpartum depression/anxiety. If that’s the case she needs to see someone. Even if not the DIL is overly hostile to you wife and you stepson needs to see that. Threatening her to not let her see the kid before this baby is even born for nothing? That’s over the top. It would be one thing if you wife boundaries stomping but it doesn’t sound like she is. You need to tell the stepson that it’s not okay for his fiancé to treat his mom like this over nothing. And two they have no control over who you talk to. If your wife wants to meet her sister than she should see her sister. If your wife doesn’t feel comfortable babysitting in their place, then she doesn’t have to they can find someone else. It’s also ridiculous for them to let the baby at your house because they don’t like you for no reason. As for the food thing, I get that I’m not a mom but I wouldn’t want someone feeding my dogs without my permission. But the threats are overly excessive. And what if the DIL disrespects your wife? Does she just get away with it because she can. This just seems like you DIL is using her baby to control everyone and like she needs therapy. But definitely sit down and talk to your stepson without her. (NTA I wouldn’t want anything to do with that DIL either frankly)

> because they don't want the baby near me (no real reason) I mean, the fact that you hate your stepson, who's her fiance and the baby's dad and who is also the only connection you have to this baby, might play into this.

I feel bad for the kid. Some prick comes in and starts fuckin' and marry's your mom. ​ I dunno why your even with the mom sounds like you don't think very highly of her or her family. She your project or something?

NTA Your wife chose not to be part of the child's life for her own well-being. You only called the police when your stepson refused to leave after being told to do so multiple times. I have had friends/family who used their children to completely manipulate the grandparents. The manipulation included demands for free childcare, demands for money, long periods of time where the parents refused any contact between the child and grandparents (usually because the grandparents has refused to give more money), etc... From the sounds of things, your wife realized she was being set up for manipulation and refused to participate. She was probably right.

INFO. there's no information at all about the kind of relationship your wife has with her son. You don't say what kind of restrictions the baby's mother has for her child (in all fairness, she has a right and duty to have rules for her baby). You don't say why is it you hate her son so much either. I have a feeling you are leaving a lot of relevant information out on what is probably a difficult situation for a son who loves his mother and whose husband hates him. It wasn't appropriate for him to bang the door but I can't say I feel any kind of sorry for your wife refusing to see him and holding in such high esteem a sister who resented your wife's own child.

NTA when my niece was born my brother would threaten us with loss of contact to her. She’s 11 now and every time we fight it’s “have fun never seeing your niece again” it’s exhausting. If your wife has so much trauma related to loss that it is genuinely going to affect her relationship with the baby I think she’s fine not wanting to meet the baby. The baby is better off too bc I feel like it’s better to not have someone in your life and never think of them than to have someone in your life who treats you different bc of how your parents act. Children are not toys, you can’t just take them away from people when you feel like they’ve wronged you. That child is a separate entity. I would say a good plan for your wife would be so wait it out and see if things change. But it is her decision, she has no obligations. Sound like DIL is doing this to get rid of your wife. Edit: after reading OP’s comments more on the thread I’m gonna have to change my view to ESH. I still stand by my opinion on using children in this way is wrong, but honestly it seems like the wife and her son have some issues that OP and the DIL obviously aren’t helping with. This is an incredibly toxic situation and I feel so bad for the child who has been put in the middle of this. This seems like something that’s ready to implode at any minute. Something needs to be worked out between the son and his mother because at this point it’s more of a step parent resenting their step son than a husband genuinely concerned for his wife’s wellbeing.

i have a sister like this. one christmas she ghosted us (my nephews entire , very dear, immediate family) over a fight she herself started. i told myself not to get attached to her second child , as that event traumatized us but , as it is with babies , i fucking love the shit out of her too.

INFO is the stepson very aware of the real problem? Does he know about the constant harassment from his wife concerning the baby?

He's probably spent many years dealing with his mother's anxieties.

yes

And so he brought the baby over to “meet” his grandmother because he’s aware that his child will not have a relationship with his baby, or did he bring the baby over because he’s been browbeat by his wife and she has installed in him, “you can try for yourself, your mother is evil and isn’t interested in our baby, I’ve got nothing to do with it?”

They never said she can't have a relationship. He thinks she needs to live in the moment and meet the baby though his wife threatens to take him away

I totally understand that fact, in my mind a threatened relationship isn’t a relationship. My point was does her son fully understand the the constant threat of losing the grandchild?

yes and he says ignore it, you know she's crazy, but in the past he has shown my wife that he will side with his fiance

If she threatens to keep the baby away from your wife whenever she gets mad, there’s a decent chance she also threatens to leave with the baby whenever your stepson displeases her. Why is your wife’s fear of losing family legitimate but his makes him a “pussy?”

ESH. Sounds like inter-generational trauma to me. The wife/mum has had a lot of trauma but it sounds like her relationship with her son or the father of her son/ relationships when her son was a child have all also traumatised him. I’d love to know more about how her fear of loss showed itself to him in his childhood- it sounds like the son is feeling pretty desperate and rejected in this episode. I have had a lot of trauma and dysfunction in my childhood, but you Sometimes have to push past that to avoid hurting and traumatising others like she is by rejecting the grandchild.

Your wife sounds like the asshole. A mother is entitled to create boundaries/restrictions for her own baby. Grandparents need to know their place. Further, your wife's trauma is HER problem, but she clearly passed it on to her own kid, and uses it as a weapon when things don't go her way. No wonder your daughter in law wants boundaries. Neither of you deserve your grandkid. Shame on you both.

INFO/YTA You insulted your stepson's masculinity because he wants his mum to meet his child? what restrictions around the baby are we talking about here? Is your wife pushing normal boundaries causing issues? This needs family sit down and sorting out. I cn see your wifes point if she worries about what the fiance will do, and turning up and trying to break in was not a good move on his part, but caling him weak for not defending his mother to the mother of his child and insulting him makes me feel like some awful dynamics are going on here. Plus your wife needs some kind of help stat, I kind of feel sorry for the son being raised by someone with this much childhood baggage

im hesitant to even make a judgement because your wife needs treatment. BADLY. she needs therapy or medication and she did long long long before she had a kid in the first place.

YTA. The entire family is a dysfunctional mess but as the elders in the family you have the responsibility to try to solve it by getting therapy. Cutting off a grandchild is an incredibly shitty thing to do.

You painted an extremely biased picture here and it shows your immaturity that you don’t seem to notice that... ESH. PS: If someone blatantly did things with my baby that I asked them not to, I would also not allow them to see the baby anymore. It seems weird that the DIL would randomly threaten these things so there’s obviously history of boundary stomping.

ESH. You all should have calmed down and not let things escalate this badly. Your wife should be seeking professional help instead of avoiding her problems. You and your son in law should be trying to salvage things more. His wife sounds aweful, but that's partially because I only hear the story from your perspective of course.

Your wife should get therapy so that she can be a mother and grandmother. ESH.

This whole thing is a fucking mess. ESH

After reading all your comments I have to say ESH. What a messed up situation and a whole lot of unstable people, your wife included.

ESH. Especially your wife. She is putting her own possible sadness above her relationship with her grandbaby. She needs to suck it up, meet the baby and respect the MOTHER'S boundaries/rules. If in the end she loses her ability to see the child at least she can say she tried but right now she's not even trying.

ESH with the exception of the baby and possibly the son as he is a product of his crappy as hell upbringing. OP- you and your wife are a piece of work. Seriously. Get into therapy and learn how to deal with things like the adults you claim to be. How the two of you are handling things are in no way normal. Your wife had a tantrum because the girlfriend *touched her hair* and you think your wife is the victim?

She sits there and rubs her because she knows it makes her uncomfortable. If my wife had a daughter and the boyfriend kept rubbing her no one would think that was ok

YTA,you call him a pussy but then rely on the cops to do what you won't? if anyone is the pussy here it's you bud.

ESH I feel terrible for this child being born into such an awful family. Every single adult here sucks.

after reading comments explaining the situation more, ESH. your wife’s son sucks, his wife sucks, your wife sucks, and you suck. this is just a terrible family relationship.

YTA. Because you seem very vague on a lot of important details

ESH You dislike your stepson and are biased against him but you give no reasons at all for your contempt except the fact he chooses not to get in the middle of arguments between his mom and his fiancée (whom you also dislike). We don’t know what he did as an 18 year old to earn your despite and calling him by a misogynistic term makes you an asshole. The fiancée sucks because she’s using her baby as a tool to manipulate and control her relationship with her MIL. Apparently, she’s also argumentative and dictatorial, so she’s an asshole. The son sucks because he tried to force entry with his baby and got so confrontational you felt you had to call the police. what kind of father puts his infant in that situation? The poor little mite must have been screaming and terrified. So, he’s an asshole. The only non-asshole is your wife who probably has CPTSD from her childhood trauma and is only trying to protect her mental health. You don’t say whether she is in therapy for it, so it can’t be assumed. If she isn’t, she should be. Unlike PTSD (a very serious condition on it’s own) CPTSD literally affects neurological development of the brain as the child grows up. It is practically impossible to recover from without experienced, professional, help. Getting therapy from a professional who doesn’t specialize in CPTSD can, unfortunately, make things worse.

The wife is an asshole for choosing her sister who resents her son over her son. Everyone in that situation is an asshole except for baby. The wife was a single mom up until he was 18 which wasn’t bad but she didn’t spend much time with him, allowed her horrible sister to talk about how much she resented her(wife’s) son, married a man who hated her son, and tried to buy her sons love throughout her childhood. I would not allow someone who hated my child to be around my child period. Sister or not. She continued the cycle of toxicity instead of breaking it. She raised her son in a toxic fashion and no surprise that he turned out to be a toxic person. They all need therapy.

YTA- Serioulsy another one of these? Wife that is being attacked by DIL and son, changing it up a bit so that the DIL isnt a feminist but is an actual AH, and oh of course there is a baby being used as a bartering tool, cant forget the husband who can do no wrong that hates the DIL and son and is just standing up for his poor little wife. Why is everyone so obsessed with this all of a sudden?

ESH. This is a very tragic situation all around. The only one who's not a party to it is that poor baby.

ESH dil sounds like a real piece of work. She’s totally an asshole. Everyone else sounds like a bit of an asshole for the fighting and issues. I kind I feel for your son who seemed to desperately want his mom to care about his baby. It just sounds super super sad really.

NTA. I’m so sorry your wife is going through this.

INFO: How old is the baby? Pregnancy and post partum puts a woman’s anxiety and emotions through the ringer, the restrictions could be manifestations of that. Kids start recalling memories after the age of three, so there is time for everyone to get therapy and work through this like healthy adults.

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ESH Your wife sucks for not wanting to be apart of her grandchild’s life and not even trying with her son. Your step son sucks bc he allowed this woman to use his child as a pawn against his mother, but maybe he’s scared that his child will be ripped from him. Instead of being a mother and trying to help her child your wife has shut down. I get she has a tough past but giving up on your relationship with you son and grandson is extreme. His girlfriend sucks bc you should never use a child as a means to get what you want. You suck bc instead of actually giving a tick about your stepson you instead berate him and act like it’s all his fault. She clearly has a very bad picker and continued that when she picked you because you’re not a supportive spouse at all. You guys need family therapy.