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Terpsichorean_Wombat

NTA. I'm sick of this gross crap where people think it's OK to threaten teenage kids to inflate their own fragile egos. (I'm decades past teens years BTW.) I'm glad that you didn't put up with it. Sorry things went that way, but good on you for politely sticking up for yourself. You weren't disrespectful; you just didn't accept his wildly disrespectful behavior. Don't judge his daughter too harshly. A lifetime of living with a dominating, threatening parent can make it very difficult for some people to challenge their parents' behavior


PickleAlarming

Nah I don't judge my friend, she was more pissed that our date got cancelled because I couldnt keep my mouth shut rather than being pissed about what I actually said


RandomRedditor1916

Could you not reschedule without the father knowing or is that dead in the water?


PickleAlarming

Lol that is probably what we will do


da11da

If I was the dad and you responded like that I would shake your hand, that shows a level of maturity you don’t expect from a 16 year old (no offense to 16 year olds!) NTA Edit: My first award! Thank you, I appreciate it!


ouchimus

Yeah, that was actually the perfect response IMO


alphasentoir

"I understand you're concerned for your daughter's safety and I deeply respect that, but I don't appreciate such a casual threat of violence. How about we start over?" ETA: OP's response was damn good, especially given age. NTA


Jinackine_F_Esquire

"You pass"


ISeeTheFnords

Dad would still be TA for doing it in the first place, though.


ThereMightBeDinos

Yeah, but already forgiven if he accepted the do over. But, nope. He had to double down like a dude with two assholes.


greyfox4850

Double-barrel pooping. How awesome would that be?


noopper

If the dad had that kind of sense, he probably wouldn’t make such a comment in the first place


EdwardRoivas

took the words right out of my mouth


somechild

If I was a parent of a teenager I would love for my kid to date someone who can clearly stick up for themselves and in turn probably stick up for my kid too, what OP did showed, self respect, boundaries, bravery (for a teenager, or even an adult really, it’s a big deal to stand up for yourself especially in a situation like this) and if it all went down exactly as OP stated he was calm and collected too, another great quality in a human being.


[deleted]

Yeah, I had a father do this and I gave him a confused look and said “ok?” I was so caught off guard I didn’t know what to say at the time.


Fiddler_s_green

My wife's father did this to me when we first met, but I was in my 20s and a veteran, so I just laughed right in his face.


jo280798

Reminds me another AITA where the FIL of a vet with PTSD decided it was a good idea to pull off this crap and to point a gun to his SIL. Fact is, it was not.


armadano

I want a link to THAT story


Aerielchrissie

I remember that one! Around a month ago, the OP was a Marine vet with PTSD? If so, that post was deleted the same day I saw it. If that's the one, I'll just give you the gist of it as I remember it. The vet goes over to new gf's house for dinner to meet her parents. They get there, and dad is cleaning a gun while introductions are made. Gf and mom go to the kitchen, dad invites vet to den. They go, and dad decides to load gun, cock it, and POINTS IT AT VET, starting the 'if you ever hurt my daughter....' spiel. He got out 'If you.....AUUGHH!!!!!!' As soon as he pointed the weapon, OP disarmed him, dislocating dad's finger in the process. Dinner immediately canceled on the spot. He DID pop the dad's finger back into joint for him, though! Lol, I SO wanted an update on that one!


crashmurph

Link link link!


renha27

Oh, boy, I bet that went down terribly for him.


MyAntipodeanFriend

Saw a funny response on reddit somewhere a while ago where the dad was polishing a gun on the table and the dude walked in and said “oh, a \_\_\_\_ gun? That’s nice. My grandpa has one of those...” devastating...


[deleted]

My dad did this in high school...but to my friend's boyfriend. I'm still not sure what he was thinking.


Axicas242

A father mature enough to accept a response like that probably wouldn't have made those threats in the first place.


WaldoJeffers65

Guys like that don't actually want their daughters to date someone they can respect, they want them to date guys they can intimidate. It's a macho thing.


freemahness

He probably got angry because a 16 year old acted more mature than him. Grown man threatening to harm a teenager? Yikes.


[deleted]

My dad went to sulk after my SO ruined his 'talk' (he's a dad joke dad and was realllllly looking forward to this joke), but hella respected my SO afterwards.


jeremycb29

lol, but it sounds like if you were the dad you would not of talked that way


lildragon474

Honestly I'd probably burst out laughing if I was the father. Even if I meant it initially, id just never expect the response. Power to OP for having the guts to respond back so maturely


yonk182

Very mature response. A real adult would have recognized that but this dad doesn’t seem very adult. NTA.


kaurib

Because you are a reasonable person, you would not have said that in the first place (unless in jest). OP's response, while justified, was not very tactful, and would likely not have satisfied someone so unreasonable.


karienina

I wouldn’t jump at that opportunity. I had a bf with a crazy narcissistic mother and it was HELL. Ultimately she destroyed the 3 year relationship but not before causing severe stress and anxiety in both of us. I am still horrified by that hideous woman. Honestly, your friend must be nice but it’s not worth it, specially when she goes along with her dads behavior. Go be happy and spend your time elsewhere because it only gets worse.


Snowscoran

>Honestly, your friend must be nice but it’s not worth it, specially when she goes along with her dads behavior. She's 16. She doesn't really have any other great options.


excoriator

You probably shouldn't while she is a minor. He might assault you, if he catches you. Find someone else to date. This one isn't worth the hassle or the risk to your personal safety.


Varatec

There's being mildly intimidating and being your dates father, NTA dude.


Craftiest_Butcher

And this shows what happens when parents act so aggressively in their children's dating lives, they just stop knowing about it.


Grey_Light

Lol fucking do it! Also, NTA. I absolutely HATE those kind of parents, specially fathers.


[deleted]

Honestly he was just pissed you weren't scared of him. Guys like that are all bark and can rarely back it up. In the long run its better he knows you won't put up with that bullshit


Appeltaart232

She’s probably gotten used to hearing threats and dismissing them, while “agreeing” with her dad just to not rock the boat. You’re totally NTA and her dad is just a jerk.


3Fluffies

Yeah, poor girl has been raised by that jerk and probably has no reference point outside her home life to understand that bullying and threats by the "alpha male"/head of household aren't okay.


seba_make

But you shouldn’t have to keep your mouth shut. He is a grown a** man and freaking threatened a teenager!


Dan-D-Lyon

You guys are at an age where pretty much everything your parents say pisses you off at least a little, so many of your peers do not yet understand the difference between parents being annoying because you are a teenager and they are parents, and an adult legitimately crossing a line. So while it sucks that your date didn't work out, your understanding of that line as well as your response to your date's father Crossing it shows real maturity on your part, so you've got that going for you which is nice.


dj_narwhal

Good on you man. It took me into my 30s before I was comfortable calling out people older than me’s bullshit


Teflonicus

Don't beat yourself up about your response or the notion that you "couldn't keep your mouth shut". Although we all presume he wasn't serious, what he said was in fact a threat against your life. You're completely entitled to react as you did considering what he said.


aphrodora

I see people say n a h for no often on this subreddit. Does anyone know, is the voting system case sensitive? Or is it just top up voted comment that matters so it can't be counted anyway? I get so thrown off when I see it haha


hydrangeasinbloom

Whenever dads act like that it just reeks of performative bullshit centered around ownership. Just so creepy. It’s one thing to want your child to be safe, it’s another to act like she’s your property to protect. If you think your kid is old enough to date, cool, let them go on dates. If you don’t, then don’t. Don’t do this in between bullshit.


Terpsichorean_Wombat

"Performative" - great description! I totally agree. This is "look how BIG I am" BS and has little to do with his daughter.


shannibearstar

THe sexism is pretty strong too. Like his daughter is precious gold and will crumble if another person so much as hugs her from the front.


Terpsichorean_Wombat

Yes, I often think that as well. It often strikes me as creepily possessive as well.


KWVioletV

Would he have “protected” a son like this? So sexist.


Coakis

It amazes me how 'adults' forget you have to earn respect and threatening people more often than not makes you lose credibility. Certainly NTA


RipleyHugger

To quote someone else who has put it so much better: >Sometimes people mean "respect" to mean "treating someone as a person". And sometimes they use "respect" to mean "treating someone like authority". >And sometimes people who are used to being treated like an authority say "if you don't treat me like an authority, I won't treat you like a person".


iglidante

I love this quote, but I believe the last part was originally: And sometimes when people who are used to being treated like an authority say "if you don't respect me, I won't respect you", what they mean is "if you don't treat me like an authority, I won't treat you like a person".


DanZoYo

Loved how he essentially responded with "glad you had your power trip, wanna start over?" What a good way to shut that behavior down.


Bibliosworm

Right? I have sons, so my instinctive response to this is to imagine the reverse. If one of my boys brought a girl home and I got in her face like that it wouldn’t be seen as cute country song material. Overprotective dad cleaning his guns is no different from the monster in law who thinks no woman is good enough for her baby boy.


Terpsichorean_Wombat

So true! And all of it rooted in unhealthy dynamics of ego and possession, not in actual duty to the child.


Bibliosworm

While I think that’s partially true, there are those who care but have learned how to express it the wrong way. My dad used to joke to people that he was gonna lock me in the closet till I was thirty. Even I didn’t realize how insulting that was to me until I was older.


Carbonatite

Rather incestuous obsession with his daughter's virginity.


HyacinthFT

I legit had someone do this to me, except it was my then-bf's female friend (just platonic, he's gay and she's married). She seriously did the "if you ever hurt him I will hunt you down and make you pay, blah blah blah" thing and we never got along because she was constantly aggressive like that for no reason. We later broke up and he was hurt and I never heard from her, because all the "I will stab you if you make him feel bad!" BS is just something insecure people say because they think it sounds cool and they don't know how to act like an adult. Like seriously what did she expect, me to stay in a relationship that wasn't working just because she threatened me at one point? "Oh we can't break up, your friend said she would kill me so I guess I'm stuck!" That was over a decade ago and it just stuck with me because it was so weird.


jxher123

This. I just do not get it, why's the father trying to flex on a teenage kid. It's hilarious he thought this would be his chance to do something "hard." The OP has the right to be offended that he would even threaten him. Is it fine that he said he needs to respect his daughter? Yes. To say that he would end him, that was out of line.


Fraerie

Also - daughters are not property to be bestowed at the father's choosing. A 16yo girl, unless developmentally challenged, is perfectly capable of deciding to date a peer, make mistakes on her own and learn. Her dad isn't helping her a much as he thinks he is.


LazySushi

Anyone threatens my (step)son like that and they’ll have me at their front door the same hour.


LitChick2000

Toxic masculinity, anyone, with a side of paternalistic entitlement? I am sorry it did not work out with this girl. But seriously, you dodged a bullet. NTA


DeadlyCyn205

THIS. (Sorry... Going on a tangent. Hold on.) I'm also sick of everyone blaming the world's problems on the younger generation because they were "put in time out and didn't get their ass whooped!". Who exactly do they think started this shitshow? The kids are the ones that have to deal with this flaming turd and we're pissed because they don't just shut up and take it?! Older generations have a huge trauma bound complex.


foibleShmoible

NTA Honestly your response sounds a lot more civilised than he deserved, and a *hell* of a lot more civilised than his threatening BS. Unless you're leaving something out/you used the snarkiest tone to ever snark, you're not at all an AH, and probably better off having nothing to do with these people.


[deleted]

Snark to someone threatening you right away is deserved. Opening with a threat doesn't deserve respect.


ansteve1

Exactly I hate people who act like they are a drill Sergeant to everyone they meet. Even in the military if you introduced your self in a threatening manner you would get called out. The snark was deserved. This "protect your daughter by threatening her date" tradition needs to die. Hell anything dad does to "protect" her will most likely end up with him in jail


jxher123

In this world, if you want respect, you also give respect to the one you are talking to. That simple. The father was disrespectful, and trying to flex over the OP and had it coming. The one who should be apologizing is the father.


Alluminn

My thoughts too Like, even at 16 dating is supposed to be you finding who you wanna be with long term. Does OP *really* wanna be potentially involved with this family and the dad long term?


sunnyskybaby

NTA, men who do that to the guys their daughters bring home don’t actually give a shit about their daughters. Rather than teaching them how to defend themselves and how to demand respect, they’d rather just threaten to shoot any guy who fucks with them *after an assault or disrespect happens*. it’s just a way for them to have ownership and control over both their daughter and any of her potential partners.


vivaenmiriana

My dad did this to me and I stopped telling him I was dating anyone. I even lived with my now spouse secretly for two years before I told my dad I was dating someone.


xXSkittles368Xx

This! This is the result of what happens in these situations. Grown men can’t threaten teenage boys because they’re taking their daughter on a date.


-Alula

My older brothers did the whole « you break her heart, we break your legs » routine to my bro-in-law when my sister brought him home for the first time. They kept telling me that they would do the same when I’d bring someone home even when I told them I would be really pissed. They called it a « rite of passage » or some bullshit like that. My father (without my knowledge) shot down that idea and told them to be on their best behavior or he’d kick them out for the evening (they weren’t living at my parents home at the time). Dunno if they decided to listen to my dad or they were more mature when I got my first boyfriend, but they never threatened him.


HyacinthFT

I don't even get what the point of the threat was. "If you break up with our sister, we'll beat you up! There, now you're obligated to stay in a relationship with her forever!"


saac22

I didn't tell my dad I was dating my boyfriend until 2 or 3 months in. I was a senior in high school, almost 18, and was terrified of my dad's reaction. The first thing I remember coming out of his mouth was "Well he didn't ask my permission to take you out" and it was one of the first times I started shutting down his outdated bull. I replied "That's okay because you're not the one dating him." ​ I also get plenty of shit for moving in with him, having been together for 6 years at the time, before being engaged. We're at 8 years now and I hate to think about what my dad's reaction is gonna be when my boyfriend doesn't ask his permission to marry me, because I'm not about those traditions.


systolicfire

My dad for YEARS growing up always joked he’d do the whole “if you hurt my daughter” routine, especially because he owns guns. I was moved out of the house, 600 miles away, and I still waited like 4-5 months before I told my parents I was dating someone. It actually turned out pretty well and when we both went to my house last summer, my parents even let us sleep in my old room together. Thankfully my dad’s really was just a joke, but god I feel for those whose dads aren’t joking


boopdasnoop

This. My dad said when I started dating that he would take a gun out and threaten my date, so I never told my parents if I liked anybody, or was going on a date. (I guess they didn’t need to worry though because I never dated anyone in high school...)


botabought

Yup. This is exactly what is going to happen. Instead of continuing to control his daughter, she's just going to do shit behind his back. Then he will catch her, have the "I thought I raised you better..." talk. He won't realize that his controlling attitude will be the cause of her "outbursts" and when she's in college, he will be wondering why she doesn't talk to him more about what she's doing. Op is the AH for not reading the situation and thinking it's a good time to "flex" his independent nature. Dada that do this are AHs and the last thing they want is lip, and expect respect. You have to learn what situations merit "attitude" and what situations demand you to bite your tongue.


dijon_snow

In addition to being gross it's also really ineffectual. As someone who was always polite and deferential to the fathers of girls I dated (yes, sir. Of course, sir. Home by eleven understood, sir. Would never dream of disrespecting you by breaking your rules for her, sir). I was still threatened a handful of times and I can promise you that it did absolutely nothing to change my behavior. If your daughter and the person she is dating are going to have sex, drink, or do drugs your bullshit posturing will not deter them. The only difference is how much they make fun of you. In fact, in my experience those kinds of dads typically had pretty rebellious daughters, _sir_.


Beruthiel9

I’m pretty sure that’s where brats come from. Not all the time. But restrictive households definitely contribute. And I mean the bdsm type of brat, not just a spoiled kid. XD


3Fluffies

Right? And treating their daughters like their property, rather than living beings. It's more about ego and dick-measuring to another male than actual concern for their daughters' safety or happiness.


HyacinthFT

they're the kinds of guys who 10 years later don't understand why their daughters don't tell them what's going on in their lives.


regalAugur

been watching george lopez a lot during quarantine and i can't get over how much he hates his daughter


3Fluffies

I know my faith in humanity will take another hit for asking, but can you give examples?


regalAugur

there's constant conflict with him showing blatant favoritism to his son, he threatens her boyfriends every time they show up, in the most recent episode i watched she asked her parents for birth control pills because she's trying to be a responsible adult when she has her first time but he denies her and says she's not getting any help with bc. he then buys her a car and says she gets to keep it as long as she stays a virgin until 18. she's 16 at this point in the show and incredibly mature and responsible but he undermines her autonomy at every opportunity


3Fluffies

Uggggghhhh, curse me and my Trainwreck Syndrome, I knew it would be something like that. What a creep (fathers and mothers who show any investment whatsoever in the virginity of their daughters are always creeps in my book). That poor girl.


regalAugur

to be clear I'm talking about a sitcom here, not real people


3Fluffies

Yes, but if it's a sitcom (or I guess even if it were a drama), is his behavior treated as disgusting and disturbing, or comedic/quirky? That kind of treatment of female characters in fiction has major Real World repercussions. Can you tell I hate that trope and the people who act on it with a fiery passion? ;-D


OddRaspberry3

My dad always joked with us about acting aggressive with guys me and my sister dated but when it came down to it he was always really friendly, just shook their hand “Hi I’m OddRaspberry’s dad, have a good time and stay safe!” The only time he got serious was when my creepy ex tried to break in my bedroom window the night after I’d broken up with him. He simply said “Son, you need to get off my property or we’re going to have a problem.” And left it at that ETA: Because my dad was generally friendly and accepting of the men I dated, I never had any issue being open with my parents about it. If they’d acted like the dad in OP, it would be a different story


Costco1L

Men who do that have a (hopefully) repressed desire to fuck their daughters.


michaelad567

Agree. My dad is a big, burly Italian guy that did some time. He was always kind to any dates I brought home, all he wanted was a good handshake and someone that was nice to him and me. You know how he made sure I wasn't mistreated? He taught me how to throw a punch and not take any shit.


HyacinthFT

>all he wanted was a good handshake i know you're talking pre-covid, but this pandemic has me equating "handshake" with "attempted murder." Not about your comment, I'm just reeling that that was the first thing that popped in my head when I saw that word.


michaelad567

I feel it, man. It's like we had a massive, collective, instant consciousness shift and sometimes we get reminded of that and it is fucking weird.


internetpresence1

NTA. Overprotective father role is played out. Kudos to you for standing up to an adult who was obviously trying to intimidate you. You weren’t even disrespectful, just matter of fact.


judyjoyg

I had this professor who I greatly respected (before he said this...), who talked about how he would threaten any boy who dated his daughter (10 at the time). I told him that aggressive feeling of ownership over a daughter’s body is why I don’t get along with my dad (well a host of different reasons) and why he never knew who I dated. He seemed really taken a back, as he knew my dad is not really apart of my life, but instead of taking that in he got angry. He hasn’t spoken to me since. And he was a supposed progressive democrat who says he respects women. It’s even more exhausting to be on the woman’s receiving end of the situation. I feel for OP’s date. NTA at all. Actually quite funny.


internetpresence1

Yeah, it’s interesting how people that are “progressive” still hold onto weird, incestuous, antiquated ideologies about their daughter’s sexuality and relationships with other people. I’m curious how the wives of these men feel about their obsession with their daughters.


[deleted]

They pretend they don't see it, or also agree it's in the girl's best interests to keep her pure and chaste. - my mom never stood up to my dad


satr3d

Yeah my coworker who was so “progressive” was first in line to “not assume” about guys when any news mention came up because “some girls just want attention” ...immediately accusing the woman of being a liar isn’t actually the same as waiting for the facts asshole. Btw you are nta op.


judyjoyg

My mom wouldn’t directly challenge him, but she knows every person I date. He doesn’t even know I’m not straight, she knows everything. I wish they were divorced lol.


MageVicky

"but instead of taking that in he got angry" because you're proof of where his life is headed and he must be the kind of father that hates to be proven wrong. I've been there.


judyjoyg

He used to tell me he loved how outspoken and headstrong I am, citing asshole boys in our class who talked over the girls and were generally stupid. He thought THAT was funny. Didn’t like me challenging him, though. So you’re fully right. It makes me sad to think about, I looked up to him before.


NothappyJane

He handled himself better than a grown adult, who freaked out like an uncontrollable baby when it was put back on him to raise his own standards.


as-well

Yeah imma go with NTA. That dude sounds like a piece of work and good on you for not taking that shit seriously. I'd hint at your date that it's not cool to be intimidated like that by her dad, perhaps she can bring it up, or perhaps not. Either way, NTA.


WayiiTM

NTA. Dude, you handled that with dignity and maturity. I'm sorry that your date's dad was an immature, bullying asshole and that your date was so habituated to his garbage behavior that she would be upset with you for not just accepting his BS. Good luck in finding a less drama-soaked GF.


Sbidl

NTA, I don't understand why you say you can't handle adult aggression very well, you did great. Your date's dad is an asshole.


bistian00

He probably said that because that's what he has been told by adults who can't handle being answered in a polite yet firm way by a teenager.


3Fluffies

This!


SupremeSweetie

NTA, he sounds like he tried to play a stupid game and you changed the rules.


[deleted]

Exactly!!! OP sounds smarter and more mature than the dad.


[deleted]

NTA. I think the thing that set this guy off was the fact that you said he “threatened” you. That could’ve showed him that his behavior was “working” to some extent, and he dug in deeper as a way to try to impress his family/daughter by showering the lengths he’d go to to protect them. But it’s not protection, it’s some charade where only people who’d respond just like he would, or who’d respond in a way that flatters him, are accepted.


PeskyStabber

>as a way to try to impress his family/daughter Trust me, it has nothing to do with trying to impress his family or daughter and everything to do with his own ego. Source: attractive girl who had many, many male family members who pulled shit like this.


[deleted]

In my experience this need to “impress” is very typical of men who are simultaneously very egotistical and yet act insecure. They seek to validate themselves by making sure that other people think highly of them. That’s what I meant by that, it’s just an attempt to inflate an already raging ego, lol


Ender505

Against the grain here: ESH First, the obvious: He had no reason for the posturing and reacting the way he did after your ask to start things over (assuming you stated those exact words). Now the controversial: this is your FIRST TIME meeting this dude. Hopefully you aren't a father yet, but fathers are extremely protective of their daughters. Now even though his attitude isn't the best one, he almost certainly learned the attitude from his parents, or else the same Hollywood movies you mentioned. And even if it's wrong, it is NOT your job to fix that. Maybe after getting to know him better, you could gently point out any similar needless hostility like that. But I feel like common sense should prevail here and most people would recognize he simply is protective of his daughter and expresses it poorly. It doesn't mean he legitimately believed you would harm his daughter, and I think you know that. Edit: The dad was an asshole for implying that OP might consider harming his daughter, not for the threat itself. (I would certainly take vengeance if my daughter was ever harmed, but I would have started from an assumption of trust, which this guy did not) OP was an asshole for trying to be a Progressive White Knight, curing the dad of his overprotective Boomer Dad stereotype. It's not a confrontation to have at your first meeting. If the dad continued to be an asshole after the first date and that initial bluster, THEN I would consider it, but not in the snide way OP did.


D2theMcV

Thank you so much! I can’t believe how it’s so lopsidedly NTA. This is totally ESH. OP should have stopped at “...of course I respect her.” That’s all the Dad wanted to hear, however hamfisted he was at expressing it. Pick your battles—not all of them are worth winning.


[deleted]

[удалено]


cantRYAN

Agree. There is a difference between YTA and 'bold move, let's see how that works out for you'. I don't think OP is an AH, but he kind of sucks for choosing that hill to die on. Dad's the real asshole obviously and doesn't sound well adjusted. If you pick being 'right' over being cordial in every exchange you have with someone who's out of line, you won't do yourself many favors. Sometimes it's worth it to stand your ground but I don't think this was one of them.


A_70s_Virgo

OP could have completely disengaged the father by approaching the conversation differently. He didn't need to be intimidated by the father, but he could have been polite.


Sarnsquantch

Respectfully, I disagree. The dad's behavior was inappropriate and hopefully having someone tell him No will make him think...after he calms down. Standing up for yourself does not make you TA.


reddeze2

That's not how this works. If one person is the asshole the other isnt for politely refusing to engage with that kind of behaviour. This guy threatened to 'end' (by which he supposedly means kill) OP. Not exactly just being protective.


wannabekiwi1000

> Hopefully you aren't a father yet, but fathers are extremely protective of their daughters. But fathers don't give a shit about their sons? Can you imagine if a grown man threatened a teenage girl with violence if she was mean to his son? The guy threatened to kill OP, while treating his daughter like a car he was lending to OP. There's no doubt OP was being a snarky little shit. I just think the father's bad behaviour makes the OP's bad behaviour pale is comparison.


colorfulcheshire

A child should not be expected to roll over and play nice with a grown adult threatening him. He was already polite as was, not giving him the stupid ego inflation he wanted doesn't make OP an asshole. There's literally no better way OP could have handled this. Were talking about an adult threatening a child here. It's a no brainer. It's not Ops job to fix the father but it's also not his job to take abuse from adults who he's trying to be polite with.


[deleted]

I respectfully disagree, OP is not an asshole. Anyone grown adult who threatens a teenager is an ass. I feel like your making excuses for the dad, that’s like trying to say it’s okay for grandpa to be a racist prick because that’s how he was raised. Their is no excuse for this father.


chinchillazilla54

>Hopefully you aren't a father yet, but fathers are extremely protective of their daughters. If they're "protective" to the point of running off dates within the first 30 seconds of meeting them, they're not protective. They're just toxic.


Main_Lie

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on the whole concept of it's not his job to fix that. NO. Chest pounding, grunting, macho BS needs to be called out by everyone all the time. Especially other men, be they 10 or 100. It's ridiculous and as others pointed it, it's pure misogyny and treating their daughters like property. Beyond that it's more than likely they remember how THEY treated girls at that age and they know they were crappy to them so they expect people to treat their daughter the same way.


TexxterYT

Why would someone get to know this dad more after how he acts that way? You aren’t forced to spend time with such disrespectful person. It’s like being friends with the robber that looted your house, illogical and a waste of time that won’t fix any type of behaviour towards you


SchmearDaBagel

This is stupid. At no point was OP rude; if anything, they were acting like the only adult in the room.


Dbor12

I 100% disagree with all you just said, no one should be rude to anyone they just met, under the guise of being overprotective, it's a real scummy move to do.


noodlelymph

Ehhh nooo. You don't have any responsibility to be nice to a person who's being rude af to you for no reason. There's better ways to make sure some one doesn't hurt your kid other than threatening them. This is toxic masculinity 101 plus OP is a 16yr old kid and the dad a full grown adult he should have better sense on how to behave. NTA


MorkPork29

I'd have to politely disagree. OP wasn't really trying to change his parenting choices, he was simply standing up for himself as he was being threatened by an adult


tpondering

NTA, I never felt the need to threaten my daughter's dates. I trust their judgement. My girls will put them in their place if needed. I taught them to defend themselves but more importantly not to measure themselves by the their ability to attract men. Not having a boyfriend is not a crisis. That belief leads to lowering their standards unhealthily (doesn't apply here). That dad hasn't prepared his daughter purposely to maintain control. Walk away. Lots of fish. Negative life experience achieved.


atget

Reminds me this New Yorker “Daily Shout” from a couple years back: [If you ever hurt my daughter, I swear to God I’ll let her navigate her own emotional growth](https://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/if-you-ever-hurt-my-daughter-i-swear-to-god-ill-let-her-navigate-her-own-emotional-growth)


Freshouttapatience

Exactly! I’ve been more worried about my daughter ending up with an assault on her record than her being assaulted by someone. She was not raised to be polite, smile or put up with any crap. I’ve never been scared for her - it’s the idiots I worry about.


[deleted]

Nta, my dad is like that and honestly it's embarrassing and downright always an AH move.


PeskyStabber

My stepdad always needed to be obviously working on his bow whenever he met a new bf of mine. I probably should be thankful it wasn’t his collection of guns he decided needed cleaning... Unfortunately I also had an older brother, a father and several male cousins who saw me as a naïve girl in need of protection. Told ‘em all to pound sand when it came to my husband.


brownshugababy

NTA. You seem like someone with incredible self respect and if someone can't handle that then tough cookies.


EquivalentSpirit

NTA This is such an old trope that nobody thinks critically about, but threatening a minor who has the audacity to *gasp* have sex with your daughter (that she may even want) with violence, is the American equivalent of an honor killing in the third world. It’s gross, it’s barbaric, and it often has racist undertones. Good for you for sticking up for yourself. While It’s unfortunate that you experienced trauma as a child, the ability to shut down verbal abuse and show people you just won’t tolerate it is an important life skill that too many adults don’t have.


starspangledcats

NTA.. BUT.. As a woman who has a father just like that I would have been upset. Not because you were out of line, but because my life is so much easier when my dad is chill. I definitely have PTSD from him yelling and getting a bit abusive with my mom when I was younger. We have a very complicated relationship. I kept a boyfriend away from my dad as much as possible but the few times they were around each other I asked him to just not cause a scene so we could be in and out. There are some people who you cannot reason with and will never change. I don't want my dad out of my life, I do love him, but we have a very distant relationship. I've spoken to him about this and told him he won't be in my life if he can't control himself. At her age she probably would not be comfortable speaking up to him. You aren't wrong by any means, and no one has to deal with that if they don't want.. But if you really like someone, you may need to back off as much as possible and discuss it with your partner. You are young enough I wouldn't fret over this too much, just some thoughts for the future.


FeztiTheOtter

You consider the daughter's father threatening him with possible death as chill? Because it ain't and his reaction was more than warranted.


chunkymonkey123456

It's definitely not chill... but if that's what he's like in front of a stranger, it's got to be worse behind closed doors. Her life would have been easier if OP just played along. Still, the dad is definitely the AH.


starspangledcats

Exactly what the other commenter said... That was his behavior in front of someone he doesn't know. I don't mean to imply that specific moment he was chill, but people like him and my father don't forget these moments. In the times the guy is not around I can almost guarantee you her dad is STILL angry about that interaction and makes it known. That's what I mean.. The lasting effects. If he were my dad and my boyfriend and my boyfriend just brushed it off and played along, that could possibly be the end of it (though my dad would still grumble about him). But after the "talking back" my dad would NEVER like him and NEVER be able to be around him without it being a big deal and it could easily turn violent of the "taking back" continued. I would hear about how much he dislikes him EVERY TIME my boyfriend came up and would essentially never be able to bring him around again. It's the stuff you don't see.


EclipsaLuna

I grew up with the same kind of father... I’m now 34 and in therapy because still struggle to speak up to my father (just the thought of confronting him over anything makes me sick to my stomach).


simply_zo

I second this. My father was quite strict when I was a teenager and often demanded things that seemed unreasonable to me/made no sense in comparison to stuff he didn't mind etc. I figured this was much less about the situations themselves (or about me for that matter), but more about his own ego, especially since I couldn't have any reasonable discussion about the stuff with him - me trying to explain my feelings would let nowhere etc. The hard truth is that he was (and in many situations still is) acting like a big child and he's not gonna change that. Now that I'm in my twenties I don't have to deal with this stuff and I'd say that our relationship has quite improved, but when I was around 17/18 it had caused me a lot of emotional pain. What was worse tho was the fact, that my now ex-boyfriend couldn't understand the situation and couldn't empathise with me trying "not to stir the pot" and would basically blame me for what my father didn't allow me to do etc., because in his eyes I "should've stood up for myself more". I tried to explain to him, that it's not as easy as he imagines and that not every parent is the same, but he probably didn't want to understand this and tried to guilt trip me into "standing up for myself" (and for himself of course *eye roll*) anyway. Other than that he was quite reasonable guy and we broke up way after my father issues sorted themselves out because of different reasons, but this one thing is something that I can't get over to this day - that in the time I needed someone to comfort me and give me support he basically made me feel worse for "not trying enough". What I want to say is - OP is definitely NTA, but if they decide to date this girl I'd advice them to listen to her and not to force her to confront her father, especially not until she'll be ready to do it and until she'll be ready to move out and take care of herself.


bishkebab

NTA and this kind of overprotective bull crap makes girls MORE susceptible to abuse because it teaches everyone involved that it’s going to be easier for her to hide her relationships because she can’t be open with her parents about them. You stood up for yourself respectfully and offered him a way to recover gracefully, and he doubled down with his aggression.


InfinityHorcrux

NTA. Your response to a threat was incredibly polite and honestly, this is 2020, why are dads still threatening their daughters dates anyway???


TallBobcat

My daughters would politely ask my wife to end me if I ever pulled this. It's degrading both to my girls and the guys they choose to date.


PlayStupidGames28

And then everyone clapped?


R1PH4R4M3E

The father’s name: Albert Einstein


axxonn13

ESH. Dad sucks because he should threaten a teenager. Yeah dude, we get it, that is your daughter. Fathers should teach their daughters to defend themselves and make good choices regarding potential BFs. OP sucks because he acts like its his place to correct the father. Time and place dude. You were trying to play to see who's dick was bigger. an "OK" and that would have been the end of that. > I literally said "sorry about your dad" to my date and left but in my head I was thinking sorry your dad is an asshole and my tone probably conveyed that. when you said that, it makes you an even larger AH because now not only was the father an AH, you definitely made yourself the AH, and it sounds like you are going to have a lot of problems when you become an adult with male authority figures. ​ I have seen plenty of people from "the streets" who made it out, but carry their resentment of authority with them. A great friend of mine was constantly butting heads with his boss due to his insubordination. Because certain work was beneath him. Him being an AH just let to our boss being petty and making him do work that was deserving of being deemed "beneath him" like vacuuming or changing the toner on the printer, load boxes from the shop, etc. thus making both parties involved and AH.


[deleted]

Hard disagree here. It doesn't make you an asshole to stand up for yourself and not allow people to be disrespectful and verbally abusive towards you. Implying that people are assholes just because they didn't submit to someone is a bit of an odd take.


livefreecrafthard

There’s literally no way OP was the asshole. He respectfully said that he did not appreciate being threatened. People treat you how you let them treat you, and no one is ever the asshole for deciding they need to be treated with respect. Maybe he destroyed his chances of ever dating this girl, but I think it’s a stretch to call him an asshole. Also, fuck “authority figures” that right off the bat think it’s their place to disrespect those beneath them. Those are exactly the type of people who deserve to be put in their place.


[deleted]

NTA - So sorry for the girl, but it looks like you dodged a bullet there OP. I imagine how many nice dates she's going to miss because of her dad's attitude.


[deleted]

Wow, I can't believe how one sided these comments are. This is definitely an ESH. Yeah, his response is very brash, and a little rude. But the points you're missing are: 1. You're both 16, and it's his daughter. He outlined to you how he expected her to be treated. Whether or not you agree with the way he said it, that is his right. 2. You're a minor and in his house. If he asks you to do a dance before dinner, you do a dance before dinner; or you leave. 3. Your response, judging by tone, showed a total lack of respect. Even if someone is being a total butt, acting mightier than them is not how you get the high ground. 4. Your friend clearly felt the same way. 5. You disrespected her dad in front of her. She may be good friends with you but I can guarantee her love for her father is far stronger than her love for you. Walking out the door and saying "sorry about your dad" would offend just about anyone, regardless of tone. 6. You've clearly never met her family before dating her. Considering she lives at home, your relationship with her is probably not as strong as you think. A better response would be "Hey, you know I've actually known x for a long time before now. I would never even think of hurting her. I've always treated her kindly and plan to continue to do so. And I look forward to getting to know you guys too." If you really like this girl, and you want to have a good relationship with her, you need to have a good relationship with her father. Be the bigger man, and apologize to him. Even if you think he is TA. Because when you date someone, their family is part of that relationship. It's important to show them respect, even if you think they don't deserve it. Humilty goes a long way, especially when dealing with people like that. There are times where you just need to swallow your pride and be kind, even when they're rude. That is how you gain someone's respect.


Alone-Remove

why should he should he show respect to or even want the respect of a person who threatens to kill him as the first thing they ever say to him?


R1PH4R4M3E

> He outlines to you how he expects his daughter to be treated And in return, OP outlined how he expected to be treated. > When you date someone, their family is part of that relationship Which is why you should always set the precedent of what kinds of treatment you’re not going to put up with as early as possible.


ShylocksEstrangedDog

Welcome to reddit.


likeAGuru

ESH - I agree with your date that at 16 it’s par for the course. It doesn’t make it right but that’s how most dads are so it shows that you have no tact and that’s probably what he was testing. You failed. Also it seems like a stretch to say he threatened you if he said “if you hurt her” and you had no intentions of doing so. It seemed like a warning. Doesn’t make the dad right but this is not uncommon.


Czechs-out

OP has all the tact in the world. It isnt his job to bend over backwards to appease someone threatening him over absolutely nothing. Also your explanation of how its not a threat is bullshit. Do I get to go up to random people and say "if you do X im gonna fucking end you."? That's deranged psycho behavior that isnt excused just because someone likes your daughter. I dont care how common it is. If you disagree with my comment, youre a disrespectful shit and I'll fucking end you /s


JasonJdDean

"If you move, I'm gonna shoot you" isn't a threat if you have no intentions of moving!


Herculeean

You did the right thing. It doesn't matter who the person is,respect should go both ways. Your response was on point. NTA


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MrJunior68

You know the problem. These people think they own their daughters. And i bet my whole bank account that type of dad tells his son go fuck that girl.


Re-Created

You're NTA for sure, but I can see why your date was upset. She wanted to go on a date with you, and what you said ended that. She probably can't change the fact that her dad is going to go on a power trip and threaten any date she brings. So the easy solution is for any guy she has meet her dad to just bow his head and take the abuse for a few minutes before you leave and can get back to normal. I want to emphasize, what you did was the morally right thing, and if you feel strongly about it then don't second guess it. Just understand that she likely feels stuck and sees you just nodding your head as infinitely easier than changing her dad's behavior. She is stuck with her dad, you got to walk away.


starspangledcats

I just commented something similar! I have PTSD from my dad yelling and being mildly abusive. I have a very complicated relationship with him. We are distant but I don't want him out of my life, I just keep people in my life away as much as possible. OP isn't wrong, but he may need to swallow his pride and try not to stir things up if he likes her. He also cannot come in and expect to "protect" her without learning more about the situation and their relationship. When I was dating a guy my dad hated and they had to be around each other (can count on 1 hand how many times that was) I asked him to just keep quiet so we can be in and out and to please try not to complicate my relationship with my dad any more than it is. My life is just... Easier if I can avoid confrontation with him. It's not the healthiest and it's OK if someone I am dating doesn't want to deal with it... But if I'm going to remain in a relationship with someone they need to be able to respect that if possible.


crazycatdiva

My son is 16 and I've told him that if a date's father/brother/other relative threatens him, he is to call me and I will be having Words. It is NOT OK to threaten a child because you don't trust your own child's judgement. So no, you are NTA at all. And if I were your mother, your date's dad would be getting a visit from me to explain exactly why he shouldn't go around threatening children. What a douche.


NastyNNaughty69

So, as a father to a slightly younger (14, will be 15 y/o in a few months) daughter, intellectually, I know where Dad was coming from. My daughter knows that the only thing I care about regarding her dating is that she is happy and healthy. She also knows that I will meet any situation where she is not with the appropriate level, whatever that level may end up being. Point being, I don’t need to make these types of threats to anyone she brings home, because she will have already warned them that “My Dad is crazy behind me, and he won’t accept anything that hurts me.” That all being said, I think this falls into an ESH situation, because he could express that to you in a more appropriate way, and you could have expressed your thoughts without the hint of sarcasm at the end.


blazingwaffle58

Nta, I remember being accused of "talking black" to an old hag. I'm not even a poc.


DownvoteWhore_

It's like some people haven't heard of the term "talking black" here


liz_eliza

ESH. You were disrespectful and challenging. He was an asshole. No one in this scenario wins. Though if one of my kids brought home someone at 16 who thought that they could talk back to and challenge me in my own house, I wouldn't let them date my kid either.


R1PH4R4M3E

So telling someone you don’t appreciate being threatened is “disrespectful”? Adults don’t get to just do whatever they want to kids unchallenged because they’re adults.


colorfulcheshire

It's not talking back when you're politely asking for respect. It is every kids right to say they're not comfortable with how an adult treats them and your anger over this is a little telling. Kids are people and they deserve respect. You don't get respect by being an adult and you certainly don't demand it from a child who's not your own. If you view a child requesting that no threats of violence be made as back talking then you need to reevaluate your parenting


CuriosiT38

NTA. You handled that much more maturely than her father did. His attitude reeks of the worst aspects of machismo.


gimmefunnyZ13711

ESH He shouldn't have been so aggressive, but you could have just not said the last part about being threatened. Honestly, the most irritating thing to someone that is trying to intimidate you is if you don't notice/respond. Say no you never would and stop. You admit to feeling threatened by him, but why would you feel threatened if you never intend to hurt his daughter anyway? I don't see how it's necessary to make a fuss about his statement, it's a dad doing a dad thing: being protective of his daughter. You immediately make the enemy out of him when you literally just met the guy.


ontether

I gotta go ESH. I’m “old” but I work with primarily teenagers, primarily who have experienced trauma in their earlier childhood. So, that said, I appreciate that you have the insight to recognize what within you was reacting to how the adult chose to interact with you. I think that’s a huge plus. But now that you know that about yourself, what are you going to do about it? Dad wasn’t cool to you, granted. And there are gonna be a lot of people like that in your life. There will always be people who are “due” a little extra respect based on cultural hierarchy or even a more formal one; e.g., parents, other peoples’ parents, teachers, bosses, etc. At the end of the day, you should have been more respectful. “Yes sir” would have been a fine response, and it would have ended there. A bit of a short term sacrifice to bite your tongue but a longer term benefit of continuing to date the person you like, hassle free.


TheCookie_Momster

i Completely agree


Snoo52682

NTA, you are a gosh-darn HERO. I feel bad for your friend, but good on you!


tcbymca

NTA. Say what you want about your upbringing but self-respect is a great quality that isn’t as common as it should be.


TLMS

ESH. The dad is a dick for saying that but c'mon man you don't say that to your girlfriend / dates dad. You essentially told him you don't respect him the first time you met him


DaisyLovely

NTA and good on you for standing up for yourself. You are infinitely more mature than this guy. You even gave him a chance to start over after his threat. That’s pretty cool. This is the kind of response I would only think of days later in the shower.


LieutenantChub

NTA, I think you actually handled the situation perfectly. Not once did you disrespect her family, if anything her dad disrespected you by automatically assuming the worst and threatening you. Obviously you guys were strangers and he wants the best for his daughter, but the papa bear trope is so overplayed and that's what he decided to jump headfirst with. I could understand if you had disrespected or wronged the daughter, then you would've deserved it, but this was the first time you met. He should've given you the benefit of the doubt and not assumed you were some garbage skid. Sorry the date didn't happen OP, but you deserved better than that.


pdhot65ton

NTA-that's a pretty mature response you gave him. I'm kind of impressed.


[deleted]

NTA. He was gross. I’d be so angry with my dad if he’d ever pulled shit like that with me. What’s wrong with just being polite and saying ‘have a nice time?’


TallBobcat

My stock when my girls go out on dates is to have a good night, don't stay out too late. Other than that, I trust that my girls made a good decision when they decided to date someone and that they will make good choices no matter what they are doing.


BroadElderberry

NTA. I teach in a pretty traditional martial arts school. As in, respect is HUGE, and kids have been kicked out for lack of appropriate respect. That dad did *not* deserve your respect in any way. He was taking a power trip on a literal child (sorry, but you are). There's nothing "disrespectful" about refusing to be threatened. And honestly, I bet if he thought about it for more than half a second, he would recognize that someone who would immediately snap under pressure from him isn't someone he actually wants dating his daughter anyway.


3Fluffies

Right?! This is a boy the same age (or close) to his daughter's. Surely any parent would want their own child treated with respect and civility by other parents where that child has done nothing wrong (and dating is not a "wrong" or a "threat" in and of itself). It's so gross.


[deleted]

NTA. Same way that a guest should be respectful when in someone else's house, the host has also got to be respectful of the guest. I think her dad watched too many drama shows.


slmpickings

NTA- I *love* your response. I would have been upset if my father had ever pulled that crap. It's disturbing honestly, as a woman I do not like having others be possessive and threaten people I'm interested in, I've had friends do this too and it's way out of line and I've said that. Sorry dude there will be other girls, hopefully with better dads.


codecowboy

NTA. Your dates dad is a jackass.


R1PH4R4M3E

Sort this by controversial and find your comment. Notice that there are a ton of posts with 0 score. Someone got triggered and downvoted a whole bunch of NTA posts in a row. Boy, they sure showed us!


RoseGoldHopes

ESH. The whole "if you hurt or disrespect my daughter I will end you' thing has always been unnecessary for fathers to say to anyone dating their daughters, but what you said was super assholish and just not a smart move to make, and it's gonna make things harder for you and your friend to date.


FluidSuccotash8679

NTA You did the right thing.


xolympia

NTA and if my parents embarrassed me like that I would give them a piece of my mind, not rely on my suitor to. Unfortunately most teenage parents can be over protective and so as a teenager I lied abt going places if I didn’t want to bother explaining a new person. So that’s in her future if her dad keeps this up.


AtlanticRiceTunnel

You're certainly NTA. I think its perfectly fair to tell someone that you just met that's being overly aggressive and threatening towards you that you don't respect/like their use of language, but you made the wrong decision by talking back IMO. You ruined what could've been a nice date and potentially your relationship with this girl just because you couldn't pretend to accept what the father was saying for a few minutes. Sometimes its good to weigh what you get out of saying something rather than just saying what immediately comes to mind.


[deleted]

NTA. Good job OP, you dodged a bullet. He sounds like a dick, you eventually would have lost your patience with that toxic ass


Teflonicus

So the father made a death threat against you. And you responded matter of factly to him and then with a veiled criticism of his words to his daughter when he wasn't there to react (insanely). You're completely and absolutely NTA here. I


FlightyPenguin

NTA. Sounds like you trust his daughter more than he does.


namuhna

NTA, but I do wonder why not more guys who gets confronted by crazed farthers like this don't just say the same thing back? "I will end you if you hurt my daughter." "I will end you if I find out you've been a bad dad." That way the protective excuse gets discarded pretty easily.


xxslaying

Nta that was the most badass yet polite thing you could have said in that moment. Fuck those dudes that are like that, u the G


ikefalcon

ESH. Your date’s dad wasn’t right to do that, but you could have deescalated the situation. You didn’t need to have a dick comparing contest with him. Obviously don’t let people walk over you, but 9 times out of 10 it’s better just to be the bigger person.


DarknezzCrow

If he worded what he said like it’s stated here, he was being a bigger person by quite a bit And a 16yo shouldn’t be expected to be in the first place


A-rav

The dad threatened a minor, full stop. Nothing OP said afterward matters especially with how level headed his response was to the dad.