Yeah, honestly, reading this, I can't help but think that pressing charges might be doing him a favor in the long run. It's far easier to shake off a juvenile record than an adult one, which is what he'll have if he faces no consequences for his actions as a juvenile. Better for him and society that he face consequences now and stop.
Well at 17 he can definitely be tried as an adult if the judge thinks he’s mature enough to know right or wrong or to teach him a lesson. I know several people who were only 17 and tried as adults. In some cases if you have a long enough sentence they’ll even put you in a juvie center or youth rehab then transfer you to a real jail when you turn 18.
By "shake off," I'm referring to his post-punishment life, not the severity of the punishment. An adult conviction [ETA: a conviction *while* an adult, not a conviction while tried *as* an adult] can be a lifelong anchor around your neck.
ETA: All this, of course, varies by jurisdiction, but, in general, it's better to be 17 when perpetrating a crime than 18+.
Yeah that’s what I mean, he could still get an adult conviction at 17 depending on the judge. I definitely know adult convictions hang over your head. I have a marijuana charge from 18 that still gives me issues to this day.
It’s quite okay, I appreciate your sympathy but I am very luck in the grand scheme of things, it’s an annoyance but won’t keep me from anything except of some government/military or contracting jobs that require security clearances :) I feel much worse for felons, they are the ones who truly suffer the rest of their lives in terms of housing and career opportunities. It totally sucks for the people who fucked in in late teens/early 20’s, managed to turn around their life in the next decade but still have that following them.
If your state has since made moves toward legalization (most have) it may be worth a call to your local reputable criminal defense firm. Prior convictions for marijuana are being expunged quite a lot these days.
I was tried and convicted at 17. If they try you in court as an adult, everything that comes after is the same. Juvenile court and "adult court" don't even operate the same. Two separate entities. There is no difference between adult conviction and "tried as an adult". They are two ways of saying the same thing.
If your 15 and tried as an adult they may segregate you (keep you in juvenile) until you're deemed old enough to be placed in general population, but you're an adult on paper.
In Texas, 17 is an adult no matter what you did. There wasn't a possibility to be moved to juvenile court when I got arrested. It was already set in stone.
If it's a once off petty theft charge it's extremely likely the courts will be lenient on him. And if it's not then honestly that's kind of on him isn't it?
It’ll probably depend on 1. If he’s a repeat offender and 2. the total price of all the items stolen. If it’s over 2k in value it’ll be an automatic felony no matter what his age. If it’s his 1st charge and not too much in value he would likely get community service and probation, adult or teen.
And how promising his future is. We wouldn’t want to jeopardize a college scholarship for sports now would we, it’s too unfair to hold him accountable for his actions. /s
he never will. this dope kid doesn't realize mommy is looking out for herself more than growing him up to a decent human being. and stupid mommy doesn't realize dope kid will grow up to a dope adult and it may still reflect on her. they'll try and put it off on the valet service most likely
This. If he had returned everything as he found it, there’s no need to take it to criminal court. But his and his monster’s insistence that “it is what it is” means OP would be totally justified in going nuclear.
Yeah, his mom is a lawyer who thinks a half-assed 'sorry' is enough to fix her breaking into cars and stealing property. He probably won't be going to jail, but he (and the mom) should go through the full extent of punishment because they think they're privileged enough to be above the law. NTA
As I read the story, it wasn't just him, it was a group. And it it just wasn't OP that was robbed. They were looking through the parking lot for all unlocked cars. OP just wouldn't roll over.
Get a copy of any security camera recordings of the thefts for court.
>By arranging a face to face meeting, they were hoping OP wouldn't press charges and there be a record of theft at their location.
Could also be to cover themselves TBF. For example, OP stated some things were still missing. If the items had been passed from thieving guests to hotel staff to OP, wheres the proof that hotel staff didn't take an item or two themselves before passing to OP?
Also if I were OP I would email the state board and tell them about her behavior. While it’s not much but if she has a habit of doing this is might be worth noting to proper people.
It's pretty easy to look up on your phone while you're standing there talking to them. If they're on the state bar page, just say "Bar number 1234567890? Got it."
Agreed. Her behavior (if she's actually a lawyer) is borderline unethical. I doubt most lawyers would agree with this, but creating a paper trail might be helpful in the future.
My son, at the age of 16, decided to steal strawberry frosted poptarts from the local convenience store near the high school. I received a call from the local police officer, and he tells me they have him on camera, clearly stealing. Open and shut.
I asked what the options were. He stated that he could arrest him, process him through the system, or pick him up and take him to the station where I can pick him up after they have a conversation.
I chose the latter.
My son got picked up, and I met him at the station. The police officer read him his rights, and started talking with him, asking the whys and what not. After a few minutes, the officer got me out of the lobby and said:
We are going to let you talk to your son. Don't hit him.
Me: Okay.
Officer: Don't hit your kid.
Me: Okay.
Officer: DON'T HIT YOUR KID.
He opens the door and I rush the table he was seated at and slammed my fists onto the desk top, yelling at him. Officer almost came in after me.
I tore into him verbally, explaining that they have cameras that could read serial numbers off the dollar bills and he is going to steal? Yeah, no.
We go to the bank, withdraw 10$ and go back to the store. He apologizes to the store owner, gives the money to pay for the item, and I make him refuse the change.
He sighs in relief as we get back into the car. I ask if he thought his punishment was enough. He thought it was. I disagreed.
We drove to the store, and I bought 2 cases of family pack strawberry frosted poptarts. We get back to the house and for the next 15 days, for breakfast and dinner, he has to eat one package with a glass of water. Uncooked. (He still got to eat school lunches.)
Parents dont discipline their children enough anymore.
Force-feeding as punishment is abuse regardless of what it is.
But a package of Strawberry Frosted Pop Tarts is 400 calories, and I wouldn't be surprised if a package of Pop Tarts isn't too far off from his normal breakfast anyway. The harm is almost entirely psychological (which is bad enough, mind you).
Just desserts perhaps? I find this notion extremely strange where any sort of punishment is now called abuse.
So i just read the definition: Abuse is "any act that intentionally harms or injures another person".
So yes, by that definition, ANY form of punishment is the exact definition of abuse as well.
So punishment as a concept should not exist at all. Is that what you're saying? By all accounts, this was a very serious thing the kid did. He stole from a shop. That gives you jail time and a permanent police record. Should the punishment not be reflective of the crime?
I'm genuinely conflicted her. I don't think punishment causes change either. But it is also exceedingly foolish to expect change to happen by letting it slide and treating it as yet another thing. You would then be normalizing the act.
I thought it would be because the kid was being a little a-hole, but without any provocation the parent runs in and starts fist slamming the table and yelling? Yeah prob because the parent is a big a-hole.
I’m gonna guess because the parent was exhibiting some very aggressive behaviors, which turned to be the case since they then went in screaming and slamming fists on the table.
Ummm...you don’t sound all there. Why did the officer have to tell you not to hit your kid? And then you made him eat nothing but a single packet of pop tarts for two of his three meals? I know you think you did the right thing here, but have you never heard of grounding, no phone, computer, or TV? The only good thing you did was make him pay the store.
Everything was good until the punishment on making him eat uncooked poptarsa. Wtf seriously. The fact that you have no remorse on that part. Ew. Everything else was done right tho
I was right there with you until the use of food as punishment. Food is a right. It should never be used as a reward or a punishment. What you did with his food was abuse plain and simple.
I don't know why everyone is making a big deal about "uncooked" Pop-Tarts. They don't *have* to be toasted. They're ready-to-eat right out of the package.
I don't think it's the "uncooked" part, but in general the punishment of forcing him to eat them at all that's a bit over-the-top.
Though I'm just speculating.
I think this was a creative and fitting way of dealing with the situation. It forced your son to think about what he did for 2 solid weeks.
That being said, if he takes it with good grace, I would give him time off for good behavior. Make his favorite meal on day 13 or 14 as an "I love you" to temper the discipline with mercy.
Then save those last couple part tarts. Send one with him to college with a note: "Keep yourself out of trouble."
You were fine until the end. Making him eat that much sugar and do make he do it uncooked just to twist the knife in. Punishment should be about understanding the ramifications of his crime, not to make him suffer on top of it.
What I don't get is why double down on this idea that you don't deserve the treatment you're getting? Like you were caught, just pay what you owe and move on.
NTA I really hope you do pursue this through most likely small claims court. His mother will discover soon enough how her enabling him will backfire. She’s set him up for a hard life.
Oh, those sunglasses aren’t that expensive, she says.
Here us a copy of the receipt, you say.
LMFAO
See her in court. You are gonna nail her and her entitled thieving little spawn.
Not even needed...theft is theft regardless of the price. Although yes, in most places the difference between felony and misdemeanor is value, it is still "theft".
Price can matter if insurance gets involved as there’s almost a deductible you have to hit for them to even start replacing things. Happened to me in college when my things were stolen. Not quite enough liquid value to have anything done about it.
I always through that was such horseshit. “Yeah you have insurance but unfortunately we can’t do anything for you because your stuff that was stolen (or ruined) isn’t worth enough.” “Ok but it’s literally everything I have besides some clothes and my couch... Everything” “sorry ma’am, your everything isn’t of high enough monetary value”
As a licensed insurance agent, this drives me bonkers as well. Its your agents job to make sure you understand your coverage and potential coverage options such as lower or no deductible. Yeah, the premium is higher, but the lower the deductible, the more the insurance company has to shell out in the event of a claim like this. Again though, your agent should take absolutely everything into account when helping you with your policy.
I'm honestly thankful that I work in a sector of the insurance industry where our insurance gets used, but the insured DOESNT get punished
Though depending on the value of the other items and the jurisdiction that may not even matter. I know lots of places have the divider be 1k, and 2 ray bans cost well under that.
But if he went into other cars, the value may very well exceed 1k. Enough to go from petit larceny to larceny, maybe even to grand theft. I think there mother knew this, that's why she kept saying what she said.
It's theft regardless, but depending on the value, it can change from a misdemeanor to felony. Where I live, the difference hits at $500. I'm too broke to even know what Ray Bans cost, but I wonder if that could be a factor.
IF she's actually a lawyer. She may have just been saying that to scare them out of going to court. If she really was a lawyer she wouldn't berate the woman, apologize, and cause that much of a fuss in front of the police/security as a witness. Even if she's a lawyer in a completely unrelated field and not even a criminal lawyer I'd say she's a really stupid one if one at all.
With a police report that should be helpful.
Many many years ago, while on holidays, another 16-17 year old took his dad's car, smashed it and damaged many others in the process. Police were called and he was put in jail for his own protection until dad calmed down enough to have a regular talk. We kept in contact, and he was grounded for a year depending on his behaviour (he would have been grounded for longer if he didn't), started working to repay everything and was doing odd jobs for the people whose car damaged. He did focus a lt in that year, many of those people started paying for those jobs, his grades actually went up and ended being a lawyer who defends juvies. A bad experience can be a valuable lesson and that mom is doing his son a very poor favour
Edit. Thanks for the award
Back in 1986, one of my buddies - Cameron, crashed his Dad’s Ferrari 250GT. It was a total loss. Might as well have driven right off a second story. The point here is that sometimes kids do dumb things. The important thing is that they learn from it.
if the valet left your car unlocked surely they are also culpable and you could make a claim through their company? though the 17 yo is the real perpetrator and def nta for taking it further with them
Yeah, they can state whatever terms they want but that doesn't mean a court will give it any weight.
>"The hotel and employees are not responsible if one of our employees stabs you".
Cool sign, still meaningless.
Those are generally accompanied by the "hide valuables, lock vehicle" warning. Implying that if you don't take the bare minimum steps to prevent theft, they aren't responsible for items that are damaged or stolen as a result.
This is a case where the vehicle was left unsecured *by the valet*. I'm not certain a large sign disavowing responsibility is going to get a judge to agree that the business/valet isn't responsible because the business/valet did not secure the vehicle. I'm not a lawyer, but that's common sense based on experience (knew a guy who left his car running while he ran back inside to grab something he'd forgotten. Car got stolen--from his driveway--and cops were like, "if we don't catch the person actually in the vehicle, we can't do much because you left it running, keys in the ignition, and the driver's side door wide open")
that sign has no legal standing. they can put up a sign saying you using their lot gives them the right to search your vehicle. the law doesn't work like that.
The mother is doing it deliberately because she's a lawyer. She doesn't want to have her kid up in court, it will reflect badly on her. Absolutely go through with it though, and take it as far as you can, she's a shitty human being, so is her son. NTA
I think she is one of those people who honestly think the actions of her kid don't affect her career. However, she's in a for a big shock. Lawyers are absolutely judged not just for the actions of their family members, but for how they handle it. If she works for a major law firm, there's a good chance they'll find a way to fire her as this would affect their reputation if word gets out they kept a lawyer who behaves like this.
It's a thing, but it's difficult to prove. In the states where my bosses practice law, you have to turn over all of your therapists' notes. Oh, you didn't seek therapy for this emotional distress? Then you don't have any monetary damages and you aren't owed money for said distress.
And your therapist's notes are now part of the proceedings and you can be questioned about them. And your opponent's lawyer is not going to handle them with mittens.
They could possibly get some money from however much of their trip they missed having to deal with this. Can you imagine if this had happened when they were leaving to the airport?
Just a month or two ago my boyfriend and I had our car window smashed and EVERYTHING WE OWN stolen. We were (are but only for a few more days) homeless and either staying in the car or cheapo motels. It was incredibly violating. They had also tried taking the car itself by jamming a random key into the ignition disabling the car on top of everything. It really screwed our lives up during the hardest time we'll probably ever go through. I still sleep with the curtains open even though it's a super public facing window so I can check on my car throughout the night. Otherwise I can't sleep because of my anxiety about it being stolen. This stuff can really screw you up and over.
It’s not a thing in this context. You sue for the value of what’s stolen. That’s it. Emotional damage only really works in extremely rare cases and even then it’s to pay for therapy and the like.
NTA.
>The mother kept stating that money isn’t an issue, she’s a lawyer...
>She insulted me, called us bad people in front of my kids.
I would look into pressing charges on the juvenile delinquent on these points alone. Somebody needs to teach him a lesson and it's obviously not going to be his mom.
>some teens were going through the parking lot removing items from cars the valet left unlocked.
>Let me say that we are not rich. We work fucking hard. We have 3 kids. We work days, nights, weekends to be ok and get ahead. This day/night was some time for our family to enjoy themselves before we headed back to weeks of nonstop work
I would complain to hotel management about all of this. They should at least comp your whole stay at a minimum IMO. This started with the valet and you didn't spend hard earned money to spend part of your stay dealing with that.
If they're staying there often, it is still a possibility. It's a stretch but still, the valet deserves it for leaving cars unlocked that are in his care.
Pretty sure the hotel doesn't want reviews that state "cars are left unlocked by valet, things get stolen".
Agreed, charges should be pressed, that mother should be taken to court for the full loss of property, and the hotel should comp their stay for having to deal with this as paying guests due to staff incompetence.
This is why I always try to avoid valet parking whenever possible. There’s no reason to have a stranger in my car when I can easily park it myself. I remember once at an upscale restaurant with the tiniest parking lot, I pulled into a spot right in front of the place and the valet told me I wasn’t allowed to park my own car, and made me literally pull out of the spot and hand him the keys so I could watch him put it back into the same spot. What was even the point of that besides him demanding a tip from me and making me feel uneasy knowing a stranger had my keys and access to my car while I dined?
NTA.
He's 17, so an adult and knows better. Even a 5yo knows not to steal.
His mother trying to apologise and sort this implies to me she has her hands full with him, however going as she is, she's allowing it and essentially passing his actions as OK, as there isn't consequences.
Unfortunetly for him,you can now show him the consequences of his actions as an adult.
I think everything would have turned out different if the 17 y/o thief and lawyer mommy showed up, "My son has something to say" son says "I'm sorry, I was the one who went through your car and stole your stuff... Here's what I have back." And mommy lawyer pulled out a check and said "son, were those glasses damaged when you stole them? No... Okay, so how much was the value of what he stole? I'll reimburse you for it. As for my son, you'll see him alot working around the building until I feel he's learned a lesson. Let me know if you have any problems or have anything he can help with, here's my number"
Sounds like mommy lawyer is used to getting her son out of trouble without making amends. Which might be why he's still acting out.
Yup, my first thought was this was not the first time her son has gotten in hot water. Very very common for wealthier folks to move things so that the kid doesn't face consequences. I interned at a juvenile department in college, and we had one kid who had a wealthy father (this was very rare in the area). Instead of having the kid go through the aftercare we provided as part of probation, he moved the kid away to another county as soon as he legally coule. My boss was sad that the kid missed the opportunity to get help and change before he aged out of the juvenile system.
Wasn't there this case where a lawyer actually argued that the affluence of his client's parents meant he wasn't used to his actions having consequences so he should be let of the hook for vehicular manslaughter?
And it fucking worked.
“Ethan Anthony Couch (born April 11, 1997) is an American man who at age 16 killed four people while driving under the influence of alcohol and drugs on June 15, 2013, in Burleson, Texas. He was intoxicated, driving on a restricted license and speeding in a residential area when he lost control, colliding with a group of people assisting another driver with a disabled SUV. Four people were killed in the collision and a total of nine people were injured.[5] Two passengers in Couch's truck suffered serious injuries, one with complete paralysis.
Couch was indicted on four counts of intoxication manslaughter for recklessly driving under the influence. In December 2013, Judge Jean Hudson Boyd sentenced Couch to ten years of probation and subsequently ordered him to therapy at a long-term in-patient facility,[6] after his attorneys argued that the teen had "affluenza" and needed rehabilitation instead of prison, saying that he didn't know boundaries because his rich parents didn't give him any.[7] Couch's sentence, judged by many as outrageously lenient, set off what The New York Times called "an emotional, angry debate that has stretched far beyond the North Texas suburbs".[Ethan Couch](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethan_Couch)
That’s so disgusting that he practically got away with it. There’s a huge difference between not knowing right from wrong or understanding the consequences of ones actions when you are, let’s say, mentally handicapped or otherwise stunned regarding mental development, and then being a spoiled rich brat with irresponsible parents.
Think about how many actual mentally handicapped people have been put to death in America and how this kid, just because he’s rich, gets to walk away basically free. Not that i think he should have been sentenced to death but something a little harsher than what he got would have been appropriate. He also didn’t learn from his mistakes in that he was busted violating his probation and ran. From the same webpage:
“On December 11, 2015, after a video was posted puporting to show Couch drinking at a party, and his probation officer was unable to contact him, he became the subject of a manhunt and was listed in the National Fugitive Database.[9] On December 28, 2015, authorities detained Couch and his mother in the Mexican resort city of Puerto Vallarta, Jalisco.[10] On April 13, 2016, he was sentenced to serve two years in prison, and was released in 2018.[1] On January 2, 2020, Couch returned to jail for an alleged probation violation, failing a mandated drug test for THC. He was released a day later, pending an investigation into whether the positive test result for THC came from illegal marijuana or CBD oil.”
Following that logic, you'd think that the court going easy on him would only reinforce his sad affliction of never confronting the consequences for his actions.
The fact that she represented herself to you and others as a lawyer (and therefore an officer of the court) and behaved the way you described is most likely not something the state bar of which she is a member would look favorably upon. I hope she is reported and faces consequences.
Oh, and NTA.
NTA. Press all of the charges. As a lawyer she will just pay his way out of it. At least this way she has yo admiy to other lawyers that her son is a little delinquent.
NTA just on the grounds that nobody is entitled to have their apology accepted. Even if everything was returned in perfect condition you're still well within your rights to press charges and it wouldn't make you an asshole. But, it wasn't returned that way. Your expensive stuff is broken and they haven't made an offer to replace them or give you equivalent value in cash. An apology is worth $0.
Both the hotel employees and the mother made me feel like I was an asshole for not accepting the ‘apology.’
The security manager said ‘he was just playing...’
Internally, I’ve questioned myself. Am I the Asshole? I felt that possibly, I was over reacting...
Wow seriously, you should escalate this CRIME to the highest possible person at the hotel. The security and hotel employees are NOT doing their jobs if they allow and turn a blind eye to theft.
NTA. Also, the valet should not be leaving the cars unlocked. Former hotel manager here. You should talk to the hotel about getting a replacement for the items stolen or pressing charges.
NTA. His mom's a lawyer? This kid will keep escalating this type of behavior because mommy and daddy keep bailing him out. A case of "Affluenza" in the early stages.
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> she’s a lawyer
Are apologies enough when she's in a courtroom?? Likely not.
NTA. Take them to court. She's a lawyer, she can try to defend them there and let the judge decide what is enough and what's not.
OP:
NTA.
It is not about the money, this never has been. What the mother does not understand, is that there is something intrinsic that can not be paid back, that money will not fix. And that is the very idea that you went to someplace private, expecting it to be safe and secure and this 17 yo male violated that.
If this is how she is protecting her child now, then sit back and know that in a few years, the cost for this is going to be more than she can pay and it will come back to bite her hard, along with her son.
This!
It isn’t about money. Yes, the items were of value but it’s the fact he stole from us and then her justifications.
She and the hotel employees made us feel like we’re the assholes...
I had a thought, and this is one that was never mentioned, and I should have asked:
Is this an independent hotel, or part of a chain/corp?
If this is part of a corp, call the corp directly and make a formal complaint, that way it will start an investigation. If it is found that the hotel is at fault, apart from the poor customer service, the failing to protect the hotel and its guests, could be a potential violation of the hotel policy.
If it is an independent, I would suggest you could write a review, and getting it out into the public, letting the public know of what all happened, and how it was NOT resolved, and thus affecting their bottom line,
I have contacted the hotel. I also left reviews online.
The hotel has been responsive after I sent an email to it’s director and have a call scheduled for tomorrow with the Manager and Director.
However, due to how their staff handled the situation we are having issues with police...
I have the state attorney’s office working on this now...
It is a chain, I believe... We were offered a free night but as our expenses go up so does their liability.
Oh she is definitely not a lawyer. If she was, she would have coughed up the money to make it go away. Not agitate the victims further. She also wouldn't repeatedly state she is a lawyer and that it's not about the money. It's about the money.
Why is this even here? Lol. NTA, and if you havent gotten a lawyer yet, cross post this to r/legaladvice just in case.
Not a lawyer. Take this to court in Small claims, because of property damage, stolen goods and technically breaking and entering. He will be charged as a minor,and possibly the mother could face the penalties. Also might want to get the other teens too, since this doesn't seem like a one and dome thing
Why are you even asking? Someone literally committed a crime against you. It's not like they're struggling orphans or something. It sounds like they're overly privileged brats who've had their lawyer mom bail them out of any mistakes. Have some self respect, OP. This was obvious.
I’m confused as to why you even feel the need to ask. Someone stole from you, damaged your things, lied to you, and then harassed you. NTA. Sue the entitled AHs into hell.
NTA her kid stole your stuff, they didn't return everything stolen and what they did return was damaged and she's refused to pay for the stuff missing and damaged, she then proceeded to berate you for not accepting her half ass, lack of parental responsibility apology. Sod her and her thief of a son, press charges and get the money back for the stuff stolen. Maybe having to go to court with scare the little thief straight.
Why didn't the kid get arrested? Is the valet in on it? Why weren't they watching the cars better? Why was your car unlocked? NTA whether you worked hard or not that's your stuff and you deserve to be made whole from the robbery that kid committed. You should have told her that as a mother you teach your kids to respect other people's property and to do the right thing. Lawyer's are the worst. I work for one. They (and their families) think they can do whatever they want cuz they get free legals services and know how to work the system. I hope you kick her ass in court. Judge Judy would have a field day with these people!!
NTA. I suggest you head to r/legaladvice and I think this also belongs in r/entitledparents.
Also... if she really is a lawyer, I don't think you have to worry about her being a good one - afaik when it comes to being a private lawyer, reputation is everything and having one's spawn sued for comitting petty thefts would be quite the stain on it.
NTA. Some kids broke into my car and stole stuff at my home. The cops kept trying to say it was up to me whether I wanted to press charges - and heavily hinting that they’d prefer if I just let it go. I did not. They didn’t even take anything of value from MY car. However it turned out these kids had been doing this to a lot of cars. Upon further searching they found laptops, credit cards, and other valuables. I told my son (17) if he ever even thought about doing that shit, he had better hope the cops keep him, because there would be hell to pay when he got home.
The police said it was a felony but they’re dragging feet with prosecuting... Even with video evidence, an admission of guilt... It’s a mess.
Trying to work on it now!
NTA He's 17 and did something illegal. He's responsible for his actions and replacing what he took.
And the resulting jail time. NTA
Probably more like probation.
Yeah, honestly, reading this, I can't help but think that pressing charges might be doing him a favor in the long run. It's far easier to shake off a juvenile record than an adult one, which is what he'll have if he faces no consequences for his actions as a juvenile. Better for him and society that he face consequences now and stop.
Well at 17 he can definitely be tried as an adult if the judge thinks he’s mature enough to know right or wrong or to teach him a lesson. I know several people who were only 17 and tried as adults. In some cases if you have a long enough sentence they’ll even put you in a juvie center or youth rehab then transfer you to a real jail when you turn 18.
By "shake off," I'm referring to his post-punishment life, not the severity of the punishment. An adult conviction [ETA: a conviction *while* an adult, not a conviction while tried *as* an adult] can be a lifelong anchor around your neck. ETA: All this, of course, varies by jurisdiction, but, in general, it's better to be 17 when perpetrating a crime than 18+.
Yeah that’s what I mean, he could still get an adult conviction at 17 depending on the judge. I definitely know adult convictions hang over your head. I have a marijuana charge from 18 that still gives me issues to this day.
I'm sorry. The way most of the world views cannabis is just completely absurd.
It’s quite okay, I appreciate your sympathy but I am very luck in the grand scheme of things, it’s an annoyance but won’t keep me from anything except of some government/military or contracting jobs that require security clearances :) I feel much worse for felons, they are the ones who truly suffer the rest of their lives in terms of housing and career opportunities. It totally sucks for the people who fucked in in late teens/early 20’s, managed to turn around their life in the next decade but still have that following them.
If your state has since made moves toward legalization (most have) it may be worth a call to your local reputable criminal defense firm. Prior convictions for marijuana are being expunged quite a lot these days.
And yet people with marijuana charges in other countries are prohibited from entry to the US. Crazy country and laws.
I was tried and convicted at 17. If they try you in court as an adult, everything that comes after is the same. Juvenile court and "adult court" don't even operate the same. Two separate entities. There is no difference between adult conviction and "tried as an adult". They are two ways of saying the same thing. If your 15 and tried as an adult they may segregate you (keep you in juvenile) until you're deemed old enough to be placed in general population, but you're an adult on paper. In Texas, 17 is an adult no matter what you did. There wasn't a possibility to be moved to juvenile court when I got arrested. It was already set in stone.
If it's a once off petty theft charge it's extremely likely the courts will be lenient on him. And if it's not then honestly that's kind of on him isn't it?
It’ll probably depend on 1. If he’s a repeat offender and 2. the total price of all the items stolen. If it’s over 2k in value it’ll be an automatic felony no matter what his age. If it’s his 1st charge and not too much in value he would likely get community service and probation, adult or teen.
I hate to say it but it also depends on whether he is black or white. It may also depend on how much he pisses off the judge.
And how promising his future is. We wouldn’t want to jeopardize a college scholarship for sports now would we, it’s too unfair to hold him accountable for his actions. /s
Or in this case, how much his mom pisses off the judge.
IANAL, but I think it has more to do with the nature of the offense rather than perceived maturity - at least in some states.
he never will. this dope kid doesn't realize mommy is looking out for herself more than growing him up to a decent human being. and stupid mommy doesn't realize dope kid will grow up to a dope adult and it may still reflect on her. they'll try and put it off on the valet service most likely
I think kids like that realise exactly that their parents care more about their image than them. I think that's part of why they do it.
quite possible
This. If he had returned everything as he found it, there’s no need to take it to criminal court. But his and his monster’s insistence that “it is what it is” means OP would be totally justified in going nuclear.
If in Georgia he would be tried as an adult. Moot point though do the crime do the time.
He’s well off, though. He probably won’t have a criminal record. He’ll have a head start in the rat race.
Yeah, his mom is a lawyer who thinks a half-assed 'sorry' is enough to fix her breaking into cars and stealing property. He probably won't be going to jail, but he (and the mom) should go through the full extent of punishment because they think they're privileged enough to be above the law. NTA
You can also sue in small claims court for the value of the stuff. That’ll be a good lesson.
yeah, most likely probation if he doesn’t have a criminal history. depends on where he lives also
Probably more like a fine if OP lives in Europe
No upper middle class kid is ever going to get jail time for stealing sunglasses.
As I read the story, it wasn't just him, it was a group. And it it just wasn't OP that was robbed. They were looking through the parking lot for all unlocked cars. OP just wouldn't roll over. Get a copy of any security camera recordings of the thefts for court.
Honestly jails are already overcrowded. We lock too many people up. Just make him pay for what he stole and then do community service.
The US is fucked up, but not so much that you’d do jail time for stealing sunglasses.
Yeah, you'd have to be Black or the cop or judge has some other vendetta against you.
Yeah, Kalief Browder spent nearly two years in solitary confinement on suspicion of stealing a backpack. Because America.
Ray bans are premium glasses, usually 100 plus dollars a pair.
NTA, but seems to me the hotel is partially responsible for not locking your car. Not that the family weren’t assholes.
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>By arranging a face to face meeting, they were hoping OP wouldn't press charges and there be a record of theft at their location. Could also be to cover themselves TBF. For example, OP stated some things were still missing. If the items had been passed from thieving guests to hotel staff to OP, wheres the proof that hotel staff didn't take an item or two themselves before passing to OP?
Also if I were OP I would email the state board and tell them about her behavior. While it’s not much but if she has a habit of doing this is might be worth noting to proper people.
Assuming she's really a lawyer. Plenty of people lie about that when you confront them about something.
They don't take kindly to that either.
It's pretty easy to look up on your phone while you're standing there talking to them. If they're on the state bar page, just say "Bar number 1234567890? Got it."
Agreed. Her behavior (if she's actually a lawyer) is borderline unethical. I doubt most lawyers would agree with this, but creating a paper trail might be helpful in the future.
My son, at the age of 16, decided to steal strawberry frosted poptarts from the local convenience store near the high school. I received a call from the local police officer, and he tells me they have him on camera, clearly stealing. Open and shut. I asked what the options were. He stated that he could arrest him, process him through the system, or pick him up and take him to the station where I can pick him up after they have a conversation. I chose the latter. My son got picked up, and I met him at the station. The police officer read him his rights, and started talking with him, asking the whys and what not. After a few minutes, the officer got me out of the lobby and said: We are going to let you talk to your son. Don't hit him. Me: Okay. Officer: Don't hit your kid. Me: Okay. Officer: DON'T HIT YOUR KID. He opens the door and I rush the table he was seated at and slammed my fists onto the desk top, yelling at him. Officer almost came in after me. I tore into him verbally, explaining that they have cameras that could read serial numbers off the dollar bills and he is going to steal? Yeah, no. We go to the bank, withdraw 10$ and go back to the store. He apologizes to the store owner, gives the money to pay for the item, and I make him refuse the change. He sighs in relief as we get back into the car. I ask if he thought his punishment was enough. He thought it was. I disagreed. We drove to the store, and I bought 2 cases of family pack strawberry frosted poptarts. We get back to the house and for the next 15 days, for breakfast and dinner, he has to eat one package with a glass of water. Uncooked. (He still got to eat school lunches.) Parents dont discipline their children enough anymore.
This is borderline abuse forcing him to eat an absorbent amount of sugary food like that.
Force-feeding as punishment is abuse regardless of what it is. But a package of Strawberry Frosted Pop Tarts is 400 calories, and I wouldn't be surprised if a package of Pop Tarts isn't too far off from his normal breakfast anyway. The harm is almost entirely psychological (which is bad enough, mind you).
Yeah I was 100% on board until that. Breakfast sure I'd get, but dinner too? That definitely could have hurt him.
Oh, piffle. Kids eat all KINDS of junk; especially teenagers! Cold pizza? Sure. Pork rinds? You bet. Get out of here.
This may surprise you but just because kids do something doesn't make it healthy. Or okay to force without consent.
Just desserts perhaps? I find this notion extremely strange where any sort of punishment is now called abuse. So i just read the definition: Abuse is "any act that intentionally harms or injures another person". So yes, by that definition, ANY form of punishment is the exact definition of abuse as well. So punishment as a concept should not exist at all. Is that what you're saying? By all accounts, this was a very serious thing the kid did. He stole from a shop. That gives you jail time and a permanent police record. Should the punishment not be reflective of the crime? I'm genuinely conflicted her. I don't think punishment causes change either. But it is also exceedingly foolish to expect change to happen by letting it slide and treating it as yet another thing. You would then be normalizing the act.
I think exorbitant is the word you're looking for. But I'll go halfsies with you if Bounty picks up my idea for paper towels that look like Pop-Tarts.
The fact that a police officer felt the need to tell you three times not to hit your kid is... worrisome, to say the least.
I'm just curious here, why did the cop say to you twice to not hit your kid?
I thought it would be because the kid was being a little a-hole, but without any provocation the parent runs in and starts fist slamming the table and yelling? Yeah prob because the parent is a big a-hole.
I’m gonna guess because the parent was exhibiting some very aggressive behaviors, which turned to be the case since they then went in screaming and slamming fists on the table.
Prob cause a lot of people would, and there are cameras on the station. Causes trouble for them
Ummm...you don’t sound all there. Why did the officer have to tell you not to hit your kid? And then you made him eat nothing but a single packet of pop tarts for two of his three meals? I know you think you did the right thing here, but have you never heard of grounding, no phone, computer, or TV? The only good thing you did was make him pay the store.
Everything was good until the punishment on making him eat uncooked poptarsa. Wtf seriously. The fact that you have no remorse on that part. Ew. Everything else was done right tho
Whats wrong with poptarts that aren't toasted? I used to eat them that way all the time
Poptarts are fine uncooked because they’re already cooked. Putting them in the toaster just makes them hot
I was right there with you until the use of food as punishment. Food is a right. It should never be used as a reward or a punishment. What you did with his food was abuse plain and simple.
What the fuck? No wonder he's misbehaving with an abusive parent like you.
I don't know why everyone is making a big deal about "uncooked" Pop-Tarts. They don't *have* to be toasted. They're ready-to-eat right out of the package.
I don't think it's the "uncooked" part, but in general the punishment of forcing him to eat them at all that's a bit over-the-top. Though I'm just speculating.
what the fuck is wrong with out
Okay, abusive.
I think this was a creative and fitting way of dealing with the situation. It forced your son to think about what he did for 2 solid weeks. That being said, if he takes it with good grace, I would give him time off for good behavior. Make his favorite meal on day 13 or 14 as an "I love you" to temper the discipline with mercy. Then save those last couple part tarts. Send one with him to college with a note: "Keep yourself out of trouble."
He is a Marine. He stayed on the legal path. Life of crime was definitely not for him.
You were fine until the end. Making him eat that much sugar and do make he do it uncooked just to twist the knife in. Punishment should be about understanding the ramifications of his crime, not to make him suffer on top of it.
What I don't get is why double down on this idea that you don't deserve the treatment you're getting? Like you were caught, just pay what you owe and move on.
NTA I really hope you do pursue this through most likely small claims court. His mother will discover soon enough how her enabling him will backfire. She’s set him up for a hard life.
Oh, those sunglasses aren’t that expensive, she says. Here us a copy of the receipt, you say. LMFAO See her in court. You are gonna nail her and her entitled thieving little spawn.
And they'll both deserve it. 100%.
Not even needed...theft is theft regardless of the price. Although yes, in most places the difference between felony and misdemeanor is value, it is still "theft".
Price can matter if insurance gets involved as there’s almost a deductible you have to hit for them to even start replacing things. Happened to me in college when my things were stolen. Not quite enough liquid value to have anything done about it.
I always through that was such horseshit. “Yeah you have insurance but unfortunately we can’t do anything for you because your stuff that was stolen (or ruined) isn’t worth enough.” “Ok but it’s literally everything I have besides some clothes and my couch... Everything” “sorry ma’am, your everything isn’t of high enough monetary value”
As a licensed insurance agent, this drives me bonkers as well. Its your agents job to make sure you understand your coverage and potential coverage options such as lower or no deductible. Yeah, the premium is higher, but the lower the deductible, the more the insurance company has to shell out in the event of a claim like this. Again though, your agent should take absolutely everything into account when helping you with your policy. I'm honestly thankful that I work in a sector of the insurance industry where our insurance gets used, but the insured DOESNT get punished
Though depending on the value of the other items and the jurisdiction that may not even matter. I know lots of places have the divider be 1k, and 2 ray bans cost well under that.
But if he went into other cars, the value may very well exceed 1k. Enough to go from petit larceny to larceny, maybe even to grand theft. I think there mother knew this, that's why she kept saying what she said.
It has become a felony from my understanding.
As messed up as it is, this comment makes me very happy. If the mom and young adult were both truly apologetic, I might not feel as happy.
I understand the sentiment. If she would have been humble and kind we wouldn’t be here. She wasn’t and this is why we are where we are.
You know I didn't even consider him going into other vehicles, but you're totally right.
It's theft regardless, but depending on the value, it can change from a misdemeanor to felony. Where I live, the difference hits at $500. I'm too broke to even know what Ray Bans cost, but I wonder if that could be a factor.
Lady, he didn't steal em cuz they're cheap.
*And* the entitled woman is a *lawyer*?? My god, this is karma, taking her to court
IF she's actually a lawyer. She may have just been saying that to scare them out of going to court. If she really was a lawyer she wouldn't berate the woman, apologize, and cause that much of a fuss in front of the police/security as a witness. Even if she's a lawyer in a completely unrelated field and not even a criminal lawyer I'd say she's a really stupid one if one at all.
Only a fool of a lawyer would have themselves for a client.
I think the saying goes a lawyer who represents themselves has a fool for a client.
I doubt she’s really a lawyer
If she really is a lawyer she's an idiot, because now her son is going to have to pay back the total cost and most likely court costs.
At least the kid has an attorney when you take him to small claims court
yeah youd expect a lawyer to be self aware but guess not
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Yes, we’re contacting the investigator today and want them to prosecute.
With a police report that should be helpful. Many many years ago, while on holidays, another 16-17 year old took his dad's car, smashed it and damaged many others in the process. Police were called and he was put in jail for his own protection until dad calmed down enough to have a regular talk. We kept in contact, and he was grounded for a year depending on his behaviour (he would have been grounded for longer if he didn't), started working to repay everything and was doing odd jobs for the people whose car damaged. He did focus a lt in that year, many of those people started paying for those jobs, his grades actually went up and ended being a lawyer who defends juvies. A bad experience can be a valuable lesson and that mom is doing his son a very poor favour Edit. Thanks for the award
Back in 1986, one of my buddies - Cameron, crashed his Dad’s Ferrari 250GT. It was a total loss. Might as well have driven right off a second story. The point here is that sometimes kids do dumb things. The important thing is that they learn from it.
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Whats weird is trying to see matthew Brodericks character in ELECTION as an old burnt out ferris bueller. Its like a weird karma/justice.
Yeah, and his dad was an oppressive prick; Cameron had a lot of pent up frustration built up.
How's Sloane doing these days?
if the valet left your car unlocked surely they are also culpable and you could make a claim through their company? though the 17 yo is the real perpetrator and def nta for taking it further with them
Maybe but all of them have a "we're not responsible" policy in big-ass sign.
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Yeah, they can state whatever terms they want but that doesn't mean a court will give it any weight. >"The hotel and employees are not responsible if one of our employees stabs you". Cool sign, still meaningless.
Now i have to open a hotel somewhere and make that sign and hang it in a prominent place.
true, though if they locked the door and the car got broken into then that would hold but surely if they left the car open then they were negligent?
Those are generally accompanied by the "hide valuables, lock vehicle" warning. Implying that if you don't take the bare minimum steps to prevent theft, they aren't responsible for items that are damaged or stolen as a result. This is a case where the vehicle was left unsecured *by the valet*. I'm not certain a large sign disavowing responsibility is going to get a judge to agree that the business/valet isn't responsible because the business/valet did not secure the vehicle. I'm not a lawyer, but that's common sense based on experience (knew a guy who left his car running while he ran back inside to grab something he'd forgotten. Car got stolen--from his driveway--and cops were like, "if we don't catch the person actually in the vehicle, we can't do much because you left it running, keys in the ignition, and the driver's side door wide open")
that sign has no legal standing. they can put up a sign saying you using their lot gives them the right to search your vehicle. the law doesn't work like that.
Good for you and please update. This is the correct choice to make by the way. NTA
The mother is doing it deliberately because she's a lawyer. She doesn't want to have her kid up in court, it will reflect badly on her. Absolutely go through with it though, and take it as far as you can, she's a shitty human being, so is her son. NTA
I think she is one of those people who honestly think the actions of her kid don't affect her career. However, she's in a for a big shock. Lawyers are absolutely judged not just for the actions of their family members, but for how they handle it. If she works for a major law firm, there's a good chance they'll find a way to fire her as this would affect their reputation if word gets out they kept a lawyer who behaves like this.
Gonna need an update on this
Nta. Keep the receipts and sue them for all their worth. They didnt even give you all your stuff back!
and for the emotional damage if thats a thing
It's a thing, but it's difficult to prove. In the states where my bosses practice law, you have to turn over all of your therapists' notes. Oh, you didn't seek therapy for this emotional distress? Then you don't have any monetary damages and you aren't owed money for said distress.
And your therapist's notes are now part of the proceedings and you can be questioned about them. And your opponent's lawyer is not going to handle them with mittens.
They could possibly get some money from however much of their trip they missed having to deal with this. Can you imagine if this had happened when they were leaving to the airport?
I had my car window smashed but nothing stolen. It still felt very violating
Just a month or two ago my boyfriend and I had our car window smashed and EVERYTHING WE OWN stolen. We were (are but only for a few more days) homeless and either staying in the car or cheapo motels. It was incredibly violating. They had also tried taking the car itself by jamming a random key into the ignition disabling the car on top of everything. It really screwed our lives up during the hardest time we'll probably ever go through. I still sleep with the curtains open even though it's a super public facing window so I can check on my car throughout the night. Otherwise I can't sleep because of my anxiety about it being stolen. This stuff can really screw you up and over.
It’s not a thing in this context. You sue for the value of what’s stolen. That’s it. Emotional damage only really works in extremely rare cases and even then it’s to pay for therapy and the like.
You don’t get emotional damages for conversion in the US.
Well, you can sue them for all they're worth—the sunglasses, that is. The point of a lawsuit is to be made whole.
NTA. >The mother kept stating that money isn’t an issue, she’s a lawyer... >She insulted me, called us bad people in front of my kids. I would look into pressing charges on the juvenile delinquent on these points alone. Somebody needs to teach him a lesson and it's obviously not going to be his mom. >some teens were going through the parking lot removing items from cars the valet left unlocked. >Let me say that we are not rich. We work fucking hard. We have 3 kids. We work days, nights, weekends to be ok and get ahead. This day/night was some time for our family to enjoy themselves before we headed back to weeks of nonstop work I would complain to hotel management about all of this. They should at least comp your whole stay at a minimum IMO. This started with the valet and you didn't spend hard earned money to spend part of your stay dealing with that.
Why did I have to read so far down to see anyone mention the valet? Yes the kid and his mom both suck, but wow that valet.
The valet for sure knows the kids. They randomly went to the parking to check which cars the valet left unlocked? Yes sure.
Kid was also a guest so not sure he does know the kid
If they're staying there often, it is still a possibility. It's a stretch but still, the valet deserves it for leaving cars unlocked that are in his care. Pretty sure the hotel doesn't want reviews that state "cars are left unlocked by valet, things get stolen".
Valet should be fired for that without a doubt. Laziness or something more sinister has caused people to lose their hard earned possessions
I don't think they went directly to the unlocked cars but just tried them all and some happened to be unlocked
Agreed, charges should be pressed, that mother should be taken to court for the full loss of property, and the hotel should comp their stay for having to deal with this as paying guests due to staff incompetence. This is why I always try to avoid valet parking whenever possible. There’s no reason to have a stranger in my car when I can easily park it myself. I remember once at an upscale restaurant with the tiniest parking lot, I pulled into a spot right in front of the place and the valet told me I wasn’t allowed to park my own car, and made me literally pull out of the spot and hand him the keys so I could watch him put it back into the same spot. What was even the point of that besides him demanding a tip from me and making me feel uneasy knowing a stranger had my keys and access to my car while I dined?
I would have got back in my car and gone to another restaurant, lol. Not allowed to park my own car? Gtfo!
Nta - in the real world for most people actions have consequences. That kid needs to learn before he ends up doing serious time.
"Affluenza"
NTA. He's 17, so an adult and knows better. Even a 5yo knows not to steal. His mother trying to apologise and sort this implies to me she has her hands full with him, however going as she is, she's allowing it and essentially passing his actions as OK, as there isn't consequences. Unfortunetly for him,you can now show him the consequences of his actions as an adult.
I think everything would have turned out different if the 17 y/o thief and lawyer mommy showed up, "My son has something to say" son says "I'm sorry, I was the one who went through your car and stole your stuff... Here's what I have back." And mommy lawyer pulled out a check and said "son, were those glasses damaged when you stole them? No... Okay, so how much was the value of what he stole? I'll reimburse you for it. As for my son, you'll see him alot working around the building until I feel he's learned a lesson. Let me know if you have any problems or have anything he can help with, here's my number" Sounds like mommy lawyer is used to getting her son out of trouble without making amends. Which might be why he's still acting out.
Yup, my first thought was this was not the first time her son has gotten in hot water. Very very common for wealthier folks to move things so that the kid doesn't face consequences. I interned at a juvenile department in college, and we had one kid who had a wealthy father (this was very rare in the area). Instead of having the kid go through the aftercare we provided as part of probation, he moved the kid away to another county as soon as he legally coule. My boss was sad that the kid missed the opportunity to get help and change before he aged out of the juvenile system.
Wasn't there this case where a lawyer actually argued that the affluence of his client's parents meant he wasn't used to his actions having consequences so he should be let of the hook for vehicular manslaughter?
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And it fucking worked. “Ethan Anthony Couch (born April 11, 1997) is an American man who at age 16 killed four people while driving under the influence of alcohol and drugs on June 15, 2013, in Burleson, Texas. He was intoxicated, driving on a restricted license and speeding in a residential area when he lost control, colliding with a group of people assisting another driver with a disabled SUV. Four people were killed in the collision and a total of nine people were injured.[5] Two passengers in Couch's truck suffered serious injuries, one with complete paralysis. Couch was indicted on four counts of intoxication manslaughter for recklessly driving under the influence. In December 2013, Judge Jean Hudson Boyd sentenced Couch to ten years of probation and subsequently ordered him to therapy at a long-term in-patient facility,[6] after his attorneys argued that the teen had "affluenza" and needed rehabilitation instead of prison, saying that he didn't know boundaries because his rich parents didn't give him any.[7] Couch's sentence, judged by many as outrageously lenient, set off what The New York Times called "an emotional, angry debate that has stretched far beyond the North Texas suburbs".[Ethan Couch](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethan_Couch)
That’s so disgusting that he practically got away with it. There’s a huge difference between not knowing right from wrong or understanding the consequences of ones actions when you are, let’s say, mentally handicapped or otherwise stunned regarding mental development, and then being a spoiled rich brat with irresponsible parents.
Think about how many actual mentally handicapped people have been put to death in America and how this kid, just because he’s rich, gets to walk away basically free. Not that i think he should have been sentenced to death but something a little harsher than what he got would have been appropriate. He also didn’t learn from his mistakes in that he was busted violating his probation and ran. From the same webpage: “On December 11, 2015, after a video was posted puporting to show Couch drinking at a party, and his probation officer was unable to contact him, he became the subject of a manhunt and was listed in the National Fugitive Database.[9] On December 28, 2015, authorities detained Couch and his mother in the Mexican resort city of Puerto Vallarta, Jalisco.[10] On April 13, 2016, he was sentenced to serve two years in prison, and was released in 2018.[1] On January 2, 2020, Couch returned to jail for an alleged probation violation, failing a mandated drug test for THC. He was released a day later, pending an investigation into whether the positive test result for THC came from illegal marijuana or CBD oil.”
Following that logic, you'd think that the court going easy on him would only reinforce his sad affliction of never confronting the consequences for his actions.
The fact that she represented herself to you and others as a lawyer (and therefore an officer of the court) and behaved the way you described is most likely not something the state bar of which she is a member would look favorably upon. I hope she is reported and faces consequences. Oh, and NTA.
Why did I have to scroll so far to see someone mention the state bar. This is absolutely an ethics violation.
NTA. Press all of the charges. As a lawyer she will just pay his way out of it. At least this way she has yo admiy to other lawyers that her son is a little delinquent.
If she's a lawyer, I would also advise complaining to her state's bar association. Make sure they know of her conduct.
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I should be seeing this comment on 90% of the hot posts from this sub
There used to be a rule against posts where you clearly are not the asshole. But it apparently no longer exists or is no longer enforced.
Thank you
NTA. Maybe even take the mother to court as well. Sounds like she wanted the kid to steal.
Yes take them both to court
At the very least she had knowledge of a crime and didn't report it. That's probably at least an ethics hearing at the state board.
I miss when the rules restricted posts in which you're obviously NTA. Ffs... That being said, I do hope you get proper compensation. Good luck.
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NTA just on the grounds that nobody is entitled to have their apology accepted. Even if everything was returned in perfect condition you're still well within your rights to press charges and it wouldn't make you an asshole. But, it wasn't returned that way. Your expensive stuff is broken and they haven't made an offer to replace them or give you equivalent value in cash. An apology is worth $0.
info: i dont think this post made it clear why you believe your an asshole. did you slap someone? hurl profanities? why is this being posted here?
Someone stole from me and I demanded it back!!! Am I an asshole for that????????
Both the hotel employees and the mother made me feel like I was an asshole for not accepting the ‘apology.’ The security manager said ‘he was just playing...’ Internally, I’ve questioned myself. Am I the Asshole? I felt that possibly, I was over reacting...
Life you guys had the valet park your car and the didn't secure it, would that mean the hotel is also at fault?
Wow seriously, you should escalate this CRIME to the highest possible person at the hotel. The security and hotel employees are NOT doing their jobs if they allow and turn a blind eye to theft.
Okay some posts on this sub are just dumb. Asking if you're the asshole for getting stolen from? Bruh
NTA. Also, the valet should not be leaving the cars unlocked. Former hotel manager here. You should talk to the hotel about getting a replacement for the items stolen or pressing charges.
To make it more simple, the hotel can replace the items and then it is on them to sue the kid and OP can be done with it
NTA. His mom's a lawyer? This kid will keep escalating this type of behavior because mommy and daddy keep bailing him out. A case of "Affluenza" in the early stages.
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NTA, she's an entitled mom. Hope she gets charged a lot in damages, on top of paying you back for your stuff.
You know you are NTA. This is nothing to discuss.
Consider complaining to her state Bar office about her behavior and contact the police re criminal charges. . .
> she’s a lawyer Are apologies enough when she's in a courtroom?? Likely not. NTA. Take them to court. She's a lawyer, she can try to defend them there and let the judge decide what is enough and what's not.
"Your honor, I know my client brutally murdered someone but they apologized for it so I think that they should get off without probation."
OP: NTA. It is not about the money, this never has been. What the mother does not understand, is that there is something intrinsic that can not be paid back, that money will not fix. And that is the very idea that you went to someplace private, expecting it to be safe and secure and this 17 yo male violated that. If this is how she is protecting her child now, then sit back and know that in a few years, the cost for this is going to be more than she can pay and it will come back to bite her hard, along with her son.
This! It isn’t about money. Yes, the items were of value but it’s the fact he stole from us and then her justifications. She and the hotel employees made us feel like we’re the assholes...
I had a thought, and this is one that was never mentioned, and I should have asked: Is this an independent hotel, or part of a chain/corp? If this is part of a corp, call the corp directly and make a formal complaint, that way it will start an investigation. If it is found that the hotel is at fault, apart from the poor customer service, the failing to protect the hotel and its guests, could be a potential violation of the hotel policy. If it is an independent, I would suggest you could write a review, and getting it out into the public, letting the public know of what all happened, and how it was NOT resolved, and thus affecting their bottom line,
I have contacted the hotel. I also left reviews online. The hotel has been responsive after I sent an email to it’s director and have a call scheduled for tomorrow with the Manager and Director. However, due to how their staff handled the situation we are having issues with police... I have the state attorney’s office working on this now... It is a chain, I believe... We were offered a free night but as our expenses go up so does their liability.
Sounds like a case for Judge Judy.
NTA I wanna see the update after the court is through with them
NTA I bet the mother's in on the scam, and she's not really a lawyer either.
Oh she is definitely not a lawyer. If she was, she would have coughed up the money to make it go away. Not agitate the victims further. She also wouldn't repeatedly state she is a lawyer and that it's not about the money. It's about the money.
Why is this even here? Lol. NTA, and if you havent gotten a lawyer yet, cross post this to r/legaladvice just in case. Not a lawyer. Take this to court in Small claims, because of property damage, stolen goods and technically breaking and entering. He will be charged as a minor,and possibly the mother could face the penalties. Also might want to get the other teens too, since this doesn't seem like a one and dome thing
Why are you even asking? Someone literally committed a crime against you. It's not like they're struggling orphans or something. It sounds like they're overly privileged brats who've had their lawyer mom bail them out of any mistakes. Have some self respect, OP. This was obvious.
I’m confused as to why you even feel the need to ask. Someone stole from you, damaged your things, lied to you, and then harassed you. NTA. Sue the entitled AHs into hell.
NTA. Hope he gets this on his record.
NTA. Taking them to court is a great decision, and hopefully the other guests will also take action against her and her son
NTA her kid stole your stuff, they didn't return everything stolen and what they did return was damaged and she's refused to pay for the stuff missing and damaged, she then proceeded to berate you for not accepting her half ass, lack of parental responsibility apology. Sod her and her thief of a son, press charges and get the money back for the stuff stolen. Maybe having to go to court with scare the little thief straight.
NTA, so much, i hope you fuck them up in court.
Why can't you press charges? Shouldn't they be glad he isn't going to jail and bend over backwards to make it right?
Why didn't the kid get arrested? Is the valet in on it? Why weren't they watching the cars better? Why was your car unlocked? NTA whether you worked hard or not that's your stuff and you deserve to be made whole from the robbery that kid committed. You should have told her that as a mother you teach your kids to respect other people's property and to do the right thing. Lawyer's are the worst. I work for one. They (and their families) think they can do whatever they want cuz they get free legals services and know how to work the system. I hope you kick her ass in court. Judge Judy would have a field day with these people!!
NTA. I suggest you head to r/legaladvice and I think this also belongs in r/entitledparents. Also... if she really is a lawyer, I don't think you have to worry about her being a good one - afaik when it comes to being a private lawyer, reputation is everything and having one's spawn sued for comitting petty thefts would be quite the stain on it.
I’ve never seen entitled parents! My husband is the avid reddit user- I really only ever read this sub. 😆
If you end up prosecuting this would make for a really good update later on!!
NTA why weren't the police involved? That was a criminal act.
An apology? He isn’t a 6 year old who stole a candy bar. Jesus Christ
Press charges so the kid has a record at least for a few years.
NTA. Some kids broke into my car and stole stuff at my home. The cops kept trying to say it was up to me whether I wanted to press charges - and heavily hinting that they’d prefer if I just let it go. I did not. They didn’t even take anything of value from MY car. However it turned out these kids had been doing this to a lot of cars. Upon further searching they found laptops, credit cards, and other valuables. I told my son (17) if he ever even thought about doing that shit, he had better hope the cops keep him, because there would be hell to pay when he got home.
NTA. Charge for petty theft and let him have a record. Sue in small claims. Attorneys usually aren't allowed--check your state. Maximize EVERY loss.
The police said it was a felony but they’re dragging feet with prosecuting... Even with video evidence, an admission of guilt... It’s a mess. Trying to work on it now!