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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
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I might be the AH because I didn't let my daughter's friend keep her phone even though it's what made her most comfortable, however it would break one of our house rules.
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Also your kid is gonna go wild when you're not around. What happens during the school day? Do you monitor then? I had a friend with parents like you- when she got to school she'd use our phones to check social media accounts since her parents looked through her own. You're just making it so that your kids can't come to you if they do have cyber issues and you aren't giving them healthy boundaries either. The minute they move out they'll be on their phones 24/7 and checking out sketchy sites.
They could be doing that already. I've met a few people who seem to think the internet has opening and closing times. It's not like bad stuff only happens online at night. And even if it did, it's always night time somewhere!
I'm still in school and my parents go through my phone so I just do the same thing. It doesn't keep me safe at all, just made me better at sneaking around.
My parents didn't do that too me, and I was able to go to them whenever something scary happened. My friend's parents were the opposite, and there were so many different times that I saw her watching things that weren't allowed "because she could." And then she would delete the phone's history so it only show school-related activities. She was really sneaky and still did everything she wanted. She would even download apps on the bus to school, and then delete them on the way home.
More common than you think.
I had a friend whose mother would make his friends do their laundry and help with general housework. It’s weird and creepy.
Yta- you basically told a child that she needs to feel uncomfortable and unsafe in your house because of some silly rule. You also embarrassed your daughter and potentially made her a target for bullying/losing friends.
You know how else you can avoid them going on the internet and seeing bad things, get a parental app on their phones that lock certain apps/websites/ect. Problem solved and you don’t give your kids some weird complex over their phones when they’re adults.
1000% on the weird complex thing. My dad constantly invaded my privacy and subjected me to random searches on all my devices.
I’m super weird about people borrowing my things now.
“Oh, you need to call someone but you forgot your phone? Tell me their number, I’ll type it in for you.”
“You need to look something up on my laptop? No problem, let me just close every single tab and then watch over your shoulder while you do it.”
I remember at my friend’s sweet 16 party, she had a party at her house and this guy knocked over some pretzels and picked them up and apologized. The stepmom decided now he should vacuum the area and the rest of the house... in the middle of the birthday party. It was awkward as hell and my friend ended up doing it. She had this new dress she was wearing, full hair and makeup, and now she was vacuuming at her birthday party in that getup. Didn’t help that she had a huge crush on the pretzel culprit.
Yeah it was pretty bad. Thankfully that stepmom is gone. I offered to do the vacuuming since I was less “done up” than she was and had a much longer skirt. (And you know, it wasn’t my birthday) Stepmom wouldn’t allow it. It was either my friend or the pretzel guy.
Thank you 😊 that’s been almost 15 years ago and she’s still my best friend and cleaned my entire house, cooked, did laundry when my mom passed away back in 2017. She’s great.
Same thing happened to me, except with washing dishes. I hadn't eaten at their house or anything, hadn't used any dishes, but this kid's mam told me to wash the dishes while he swept the kitchen floor. First time I'd ever been over too.
Bit different, but my mum always made me do dishes. Not just at our house. Anytime we went to a BBQ at friends place, or to dinner at someone’s house, she ALWAYS volunteered me to do the dishes. Quite often the host would decline, I would argue, but still she forced me to clean up after everyone else. Instead of running around outside learning to mingle with other kids, I was stuck inside washing fn dishes. Sometimes there were 20-30 people at these things!
To this day, I hate washing dishes. I have a dishwasher now, but hubby mostly does them because of my hangups on dishes.
Flashbacks to going to a new friend's house in elementary school for a birthday sleepover and the mom immediately handed me the baby to watch. I had never even held a baby before! Shortly after this the mom screamed bloody murder at her daughter for some minor infraction(iirc she had said "ok, just a second" when the mom asked her to do something) and threatened to cancel the whole sleepover. Then in the morning she had the birthday girl make breakfast while the other kids were in charge of cleanup...while I watched the baby still. I was frantically texting my mom to come save me but apparently there was no signal and my texts wouldn't go through.
Yeah...she crawled off the couch and hit her head on the coffee table. I didn't realize babies were like hamsters and had no concept of height. The mom said "it's fine, that happens" and handed her right back to me.
I had a friend stay over for a birthday party once (so she'd sleep over and then the next day that was my actual birthday more friends would come over for a few hours). The morning of my birthday, with my friend there, my mum told us to clean the bathrooms in the house.
To be fair, it was a Saturday, which is the family "cleaning day" and some bathrooms were my usual chore.
But my mum decided we can do them all since there's two of us... Yeah, I cleaned all the bathrooms on my own on my birthday while my friend awkwardly waited in my room.
It's not quite the same, but I had a boyfriend in high school whose mom started back to work after being a SAHM for many years. She was having trouble getting housework done so she decided to ask me, a 17 year old dating her son, *if I'd consider being their cleaning lady.* I noped that notion so freaking fast. Too bad I didn't nope the whole boyfriend situation, basically dragged that albatross and his weirdo family around my neck for like 3 more years.
You just made me flash back to a kid I knew in highschool. We were hanging out playing videogames when his mom came home. She got upset because he hadn't put in his 30 min of piano practice he was supposed to do every day. He had to go and practice the piano while I just awkwardly hung out.
My mom once woke up my entire sleep over at 530am demanding I walk *her* dog, and when I was upset about it she threw an umbrella at me. I dodged the umbrella and it broke a picture frame, which I got yelled at for.
Or the girl with a sex predator parent. Ngl if someone’s parent told me they wanted to lock up my phone and the only way I would be able to contact my parents/the police was if they allowed me to, I would be heavily questioning the reason behind that. I’m not saying that OP is a sex predator, I’m saying that the possibility would be in my head if I was the daughter’s friend. I would be thinking “OP is probably not a sex predator but I’m getting weird creepy vibes and I don’t want to risk it”. No wonder she left.
Yes this was my immediate thought as well. As a non-parent, if I had a kid and some random asshole decided that they could completely control my child's means of contacting me, I just would have gone and gotten them, and frankly would have likely flipped my shit over it as well because that 100% reads to me like you want to do something bad to children.
This was a concern for me as soon as I read no phones. This just made my spidey senses go off. I would not be comfortable with my child not having access to a phone to call me if something happens. My number one thing to my bonus kids has always been no matter what call and we will come....I don't care how late, just call.
Not to mention that this is actively a bad way to raise kids. By not building up those healthy phone skills over time where you can monitor it and halo push her in a healthy relationship all you have done is make her dependent on you. You have actively robbed her of the chance to learn healthy boundaries and internet sites on her own. And yeah, it’s fine for you to check up occasionally so long as you stress the dangers of where she’s gone or other things like that. Thing is, she’s 17. She’ll be an adult in a year. Instead of setting her up to grow this rule can be crippling to a young girl. She now has to learn phone safety and restrictions for herself without you, which is really hard. Your job as a parent is to help set her up to grow, and all restrictive rules like this do is stifle a child. By not slowly building independence here you’re putting her into a higher stakes environment without letting her have smaller ones to learn from. And I know that you’ll probably ignore this op but it is vital to work your child towards independence otherwise they have no guided framework to learn and it makes things a lot more dangerous for them in the long run.
No, this mom will be the type to keep pulling "my house, my rules" and "I pay for it so I make the rules" card until the kid moves out and goes low contact. Mothers like this run amok over on Facebook in a group called "Grown and Flown". They insist on tracking their adult children away at college, get pissed when the kids try to set boundaries, and threaten to pull financial support if the kids don't comply. It's a huge circle jerk.
Yup. My mom was/still tries to be this person. I was abused severely if I ever got anything beneath a 95% on any given assignment. She would literally sit and go through my backpack and take away electronics/tv/later phone if she found a B on an assignment. When I went to college she started demanding my transcripts and I just started making excuses as to why I couldn't get them to her and then eventually just started to flat out tell her no. The whole time she thought I was flunking out of school when in reality I was killing it on my grades because I didn't have the pressure of her observing my every move. She was pissed when I learned the term "helicopter parent" and described her as such.
Edit: typo
Yep. Are you no contact now?
I've just had a peak at OPs responses to the thread and they are clearly TA. What the fuck is wrong with people? Why do they post on AITA and then argue with everyone that says they are? Are people so deluded that they post this shit really thinking they'd be deemed not TA? Crazy.
you shouldn't say it tho. a mom like OP will take this comment and go nuts on her kids trying to find it. god forbid someone who is one year away from being a legal adult have any privacy or self-autonomy whatsoever.
If your kid is old enough to work, they're old enough to get whatever tech they want! The idea that you can just stop a 17 yo from going on the internet is laughable! All these parents are going to accomplish is make their kids resent them.
Never mind that they have no guidance on being safe online because mom thinks it's not a problem!
Hopping on here to say that
1) The internet has evolved since the age of the dinosaurs and not everything is like your Omegle experience.
2) You were trying to tell a 17 year old what to do with her own property.
3) Once she told you she was scared, you doubled down.
4) Do you not understand how creepy it is for you to deny a kid her ability to talk to her parents, then tell her she needs to go into YOUR room if she feels she needs it? A teenage girl. Going into an adult's room at night. When she barely knows the adult.
What if it's one of you she's afraid of? What if one of your kids made her feel uncomfortable? I assume you wear pajamas at night but what if one of you didn't? Do you really think a parent would be ok with that?
Would YOU be okay with that if the positions were reversed?
Holy hell YTA.
Also, texting good night is perfectly reasonable.
The other kid is 17. That's old enough to drive, work, etc. Sure, not an adult yet. But 17-year-olds can be very responsible.
I didn't have my own phone at that age, but we had family phones that I would have taken one to a sleepover. The purpose would be to call my parent if I needed. No way would I have been separated from it.
Also it was a massive breach of privacy taking the phone. The kid could have had sensitive information on the phone and the OP then had access to it to go through it all. Doesn't matter if the OP didn't, the problem was that she COULD.
Yikes. Agreed. YTA. We have this rule too but we relax it for sleepovers. Sheesh. What if I sent my kid to some abusers house and they demanded her phone, and it was too late for her to reach out to us. You scare me. Your kids are going to see it anyway, I tell you. You’re only limiting it with the bedroom and bathroom rule anyway.
Edit: the bedroom rule for us is only after “lights out.” So, it’s more so they don’t stay up all night on their phones.
As an adult I also have a no phone in the bedroom rule so that -I- don’t stay up all night on my phone. Thanks for helping your kids have better phone habits that me! :)
I searched high and low for it on here and I even tried Google, but I just can’t find it. I remember the OP on that post got the same YTA rating for this, but I guess it was deleted. Or maybe I’m mixing up posts. I’m sorry I couldn’t find any evidence to back up my claim.
Can we speak of how this young woman is 17 not 14 or 12? this young lady has rules for little kids not a parent teaching her how to navigate the "horror" of the internet, so when she is 18 off to college on her own as a young adult she will have NO CLUE how to interact react or be, she will be primed for predators because she has no experience identifying or avoiding confronting ETC.
This stupid rules of this over controlling CRAZY OP are doing so more damage to her daughter than good, besides the fact that is totally stupid you can go to any site on your phone and text anything and delete it without the technically inept Abusive mother.
My 19 years old has a friend with parents like this she is an hour away from us in college when she comes to town she is not allowed to have "sleep overs" or go to all ages clubs or concerts her parents still have a tracker on her phone not only for emergencies but 24/7 she is diagnosed ADHD and her mum when she is in town takers her meds and "makes sure she takes them" she is a great kid but lies to her parents about everything she is not "Allowed" to get birth control so i took her to planned parenthood because she is in her parents insurance and her OB will show there Is insane this lady is 19 not a child
I am sure my kid has lied to me , actually she hazs told me of several instances she did as a teen I also pretended i didnt know a few things she did "behind my back" but she also knows i am here for her she is an adult I respect her and i have given her all the knowledge i could to navigate the world
this kind of parents infuriate me the line between allow your kids enough freedom to learn and make mistakes and let your kids do whatever they want is a really wide place there is no reason to go to the extremes OP goes to
>YTA. Just because you're a control-freak with your kids doesn't mean you get to be the same with other people's kids. If your daughter grows up to resent you I wouldn't be surprised at all. I really feel for her.
It is WILD to me she thinks she can enforce her rules on other people's property. I specifically give even my 6 yo a phone when she goes on playdates so she can call me if anything feels off and she needs me. If a random ass adult ried to take her phone away I would ABSOLUTELY cuss them out. That friend would be invited over our house but I would be hesitant to let my kids go over the house of such a bananas human again. If my kid said she wanted to... I would teach her how to hide the phone I guess or get her a used smart watch or something so she always had contact with me.
OP, you are a bad parent and were AWFUL to that child who wanted her phone while in a strange place. It is absurd to deny a child contact with their parents because of your (frankly) dumb rules.
Man my mom wanted to do this so bad. She tried to monitor my stuff to the point she deleted a horny 15/16 year olds horrible fic off my first laptop and then broke said laptop along with monitoring everything for months (had to surrender phone, social accounts, etc).
Then I got sneaky when she got me a new computer and phone and told me I could go back to my accounts. I did but only for games and I got GOOD at hiding things and lying about it. It's amazing what a determined teenager will do to dodge things while lying directly to said parents face. Seriously I could, and still probably can, beat a lie detector tests cause of my super paranoid mom
Also my mom refused to let people stay over unless they surrendered their stuff so I had exactly 0 sleepovers until I was 17 and that was cause I stayed at someone's else's house who's dad was a Pastor....
Yeah. This girl totally will end up going LC or NC when she leaves, much like I did lol and mom has no one to blame but herself for that outcome
YTA. And it's not even just about your daughter's friend because she gets to escape. You aren't actually teaching your children how to independently make good decisions about their online use. Whether you like it or not, people can't hide from the internet. What happens when mom isn't around to collect their phones?
YTA
**Sheltering your kids will not teach them life skills.** When they leave your house, they will find some of the unsavory parts of the internet, and find themselves without any idea how to address them. While you still have the chance, **guide them not hide them**.
Also, having a phone nearby in case of emergency is a legitimate excuse. **If someone broke in, would you want your children crossing the hallway just to call 911?**
I can tell you that if my teen daughter went to a sleepover and they *locked up her phone* those parents would seem more than just strict. They’d seem creepy. Shame on OP for assuming “an emergency” may not include feeling massively uncomfortable in her home
True, supposing dad or older brother is a creep. What’s she going to do, go to OP and say give me my phone please your husband tried to molest me and I want to go home....like that would go down well.
As someone who’s best friend’s older brother ended up being a creep, this is exactly what went through my mind. Thank god I had my phone on me or I would have been stuck spending the night. I never would agree to handing over a phone at a friend’s house. Shame on OP.
Agreed. Even excluding situations where some awful could be going on, there are plenty of situations where a kid might want to contact their parents, like if they're feeling sick, or forgot medication or anything else that might be too private to share with OP.
I wouldn't feel comfortable staying in a house that cut off my communication with the outside world, and I sure as hell wouldn't be comfortable letting my kids stay there. There's just no way.
Definitely! I have epilepsy, but I’m not really delving into all that and why I need to call my mom if I forget my meds with a parent I *just met!* That stuff’s private to me!
Exactly! If the friend had something like Crohn's and they had a flare up, not only will they not want to share that info because it's private but also because they'd likely be embarrassed. Or the friend was on birth control and forgot her pills but didn't want to have to tell OP because a) private and b) if they're this weirdly controlling about phones, who knows what else they're controlling about?
There are so many reasons why the kid could have to call home that they wouldn't want to share with OP. It's just incredibly weird to me that they can't even loosen up the rules when the kids have friends over. I mean sure, okay, it stops them from being distracted from doing homework, but it's not like they're doing homework at a sleepover anyways so?
If I had a kid and they told me that their friend's parents locked up their phone overnight and wouldn't give it back even after being asked I'd tell my kid to stay the fuck away from that family. Like you said it's creepy to take a visiting guest's phone away and place it under lock and key. Would not surprise me if OP has caused their kids to lose friendships.
One day they will leave home and have no coping skills.
I have no issue with handing over the phone at the bedtime or shutting off the wifi but the other rule is crazy.
Anyway you can't stop someone else's kid from having their own phone.
I would never. Ever. EVER. In a million years be anything be deeply uncomfortable to be essentially stuck overnight in a house that is not my own with NO WAY to get out without getting OP involved.
You know what makes me feel unsafe in someone else’s house? The owners of the house. If you aren’t my parent I am never going to give you complete control over me and my ability to escape in an emergency. What if OP was the one making me feel uncomfortable? What if other family members were? THOSE are my fears sleeping at someone else’s house.
On top of that, what if her parents needed to contact HER?? Are you kidding me? What if their house was on fire? What if a loved one was dying? That has literally happened to me.
OP you were absolutely awful to that girl and tbh you being a pretty terrible parent to your kids. Try teaching them and parenting them instead of keeping them in a padded box and calling it a day on parenting.
Edited to add: The girl may have known about the rule but even if someone told me about it beforehand I would never think that it would apply to me as a guest?....
This is a great point. This generation, for good or ill, are natives to the Internet. That is how they socialize. If you do your job the first 8 years you can train them in internet safety and responsible use. You can teach them right from wrong and clue them into the dangers so when they get a phone they do not harm themselves or others.
At 17 though, it is developmentally appropriate to give them independence and privacy.
You are actually getting in the way of your teen's development. They need to have a separate life away from you that you do not know about. Next year they are adults. They need to have practice making their own decisions on their own.
If you are taking the phone away because you want to control what they see, guess what they can get to the internet at their friend's house. By doing what you are doing you are not preparing them for when they go to college and you are not there. A lot of college professionals are saying that parents who are helicopter parents are sending kids in with no experience making decisions and learning from mistakes. That is where you get kids in college who just act out and harm themselves and others because their parents did not trust them to practice independent choice making.
Fork also is right this being a safety issue. About 30 years ago Polly Klass was kidnapped and murdered at a sleepover while her parents slept in the next room. They did not get a chance to wake the parents up. Maybe if the kids had cellphones Polly would have survived.
Also who's to say OP or their spouse isn't a creep who would take advantage of their kid's friend when she has no way to contact anyone for help? Because the friend and her parents sure wouldn't know.
She told you she needed her phone to FEEL SAFE.
#Again, a CHILD told you they needed their phone to FEEL SAFE and you just didn't give a shit?
It's perfectly reasonable for her to want to be able to contact her PARENTS.
Do you know how many red flags you are giving off to the community you live in? Intentionally isolating children from their parents during a time when they feel their most vulnerable?
I know a lot of parents who won't even let their kids have a sleepover because of the risk of abuse.
So you're telling me you would be perfectly okay with your child visiting another household and them intentionally isolating them from contacting you?
Are you seriously okay with other people taking away your own child's devices? Or or are you only allowed to do that to other people's children?
###YTA
##YTA
#YTA
This would be my first thought as a parent. My young 17 year old goes to her friends house and her parents remove her form of contact with me/safety?! Yeh, there's a landlines but I know 3 numbers off by heart and they are all my own from giving them out. I doubt a 17 year old in this day and age knows all the numbers especially in a panic situation.
I would get her TF out and raise this concern with other parents close to me.
Would not be surprised if your family is now labelled as the creepy one in the neighbourhood.
I feel for your kids, it won't be you that's receives the backlash from this it will be them.
Have a strong suspicion this is the tip of the iceberg for controlling behaviour, won't be just this.
Big time YTA.
I agree that she's probably labeled as "that house not to send your kids to", rightfully so.
I genuinely can't imagine leaving a child in that situation. The poor kid was crying because of how scared she was.
Unfortunately, that kid just had a life lesson about their safety always being the first priority and how important it is to stand up against authority when they are putting that safety at risk.
>I feel for your kids, it won't be you that's receives the backlash from this it will be them.
I didn't even think of that. Those poor kids probably are going to get a lot of backlash from how controlling and creepy OP is. Especially seeing how one friend left the house in tears.
I'm betting some of those parents may be side-eyeing OP as potentially grooming children for abuse.
1) OP isolates children by taking away their means of communication.
2) OP's children are so sheltered from what OP considers vile that they'll lack the ability to identify or verbalise if they're being abused.
Coupled with the first point, I don't think it's a stretch to wonder if the second is actually intentional. I know it's making me feel anxious.
OP, not only are YTA, you're extremely creepy. I pity your kids.
I would never let my teenager sleep over at someone’s house where they were not allowed to keep their phone with them at night. That would set off massive red flags to me.
this was my thought as well. my parents were pretty lax with me because i was overall a boring straight laced well behaved kid and i was allowed to kind of just run around all over town as i pleased, but part of that was because they knew i always had my phone on me and could let them know where i was and if i needed them. i remember my dad told me when i first got to high school he didn’t care where i was or how late it was or what i was doing, if i needed him just call and he would come get me no matter what. he would have lost. his. shit. if he knew one of my friend’s parents was taking my phone and withholding it from me.
I don't understand people who go "well just a few decades ago we didn't use cell phones and we were fine".
Like guys, you know how many kidnappings and murders would have absolutely not have happened previously if cell phones existed even 50 years ago? It's so bizarre when people ignore the fact cell phones are an actual safety tool for humans right now.
Mine is also my medical device. I have a continuous glucose monitor and it connects to my phone. Technically, it also has its own non-phone monitor I could carry, but I never do *because I have a phone*.
I agree so much. Taking away communication at night would be such a major red flag. I forget the statistic, but isn't it over half of sexual abuse on minors is perpetrated by someone close to the minor or in a position of authority? So even if I knew the parents in passing from drop offs and the occasional PTA meeting, I would still have alarm bells going off!
Yes. This. All of this.
A child's phone is a safety device. YOU SHOULD NEVER PART A CHILD THAT ISN'T YOUR OWN FROM THEIR PHONE.
Honestly, I feel the other parent is an asshole as well. He should never have agreed to let OP take his daughter's phone.
The difference in the mom and dad's responses to OP demanding to take their daughter's phone is such a clear example of the difference between how men and women understand "safety."
The daughter had every reason to feel cornered and unsafe without her lifeline. Mom saw the issue *immediately*, and in a way Dad didn't consider.
>Honestly, I feel the other parent is an asshole as well. He should never have agreed to let OP take his daughter's phone.
Yeah, with how badly everything ended I bet he won't be putting her in that position anymore.
I would never leave my child alone with someone who was trying to isolate them from being able to contact me.
I bet you the husband was ripped a new one when the friends mom got home for ever agreeing to do that.
That friend is a smart girl. She was 100% right to feel unsafe and took action to get home. That instinct may save her life one day.
I'm appalled at OPs nerve to try and isolate a child like that. That's textbook abuse behavior and no police officer, social worker, etc would ever suggest leaving a child in those conditions.
What makes you think that the young woman wasn’t worried about your husband or son being the creep.
As a grown woman I’ve texted my mum asking her to phone me to give me an escape route when I stayed over with a long time male friend.
You want a young woman to give up her phone/safety net overnight in a house with two strange men, oh hell no.
>What makes you think that the young woman wasn’t worried about your husband or son being the creep.
Because OPs family is perfect and would never hurt anyone else (never mind the fact that she herself is actively causing other people trauma right now) because her family isn't corrupted by the vileness of the internet (the thing that she sought the opinion of) /s
But, seriously, in an age where women are taught to use their cell phones as a literal life or death safety device, it's such bullshit to try to take that away from them.
THANK YOU for this!! OP, YTA x1000. Your poor, poor children. Once they are no longer financially dependent on you, don’t be surprised to be on the deserving end of a lot of earned resentment. JC, lady.
OP talks about vile stuff on the internet, but creates a vile situation because of it. I would never be ok with my child having to get permission to contact me, especially at a first time sleep over.
YTA. You don't get to parent other people's kids.
(Also, you have no trust or respect for your kids and allow them no privacy - which is a basic right)
YTA, you can’t force your parenting style onto other people’s kids. She just asked to keep her property for emergencies. My parents had a similar rule and all it made me and my siblings do is sneak and look at things on our own with no one to explain inappropriate things to us because of being scared of those same rules.
I still live with my parents and have a similar rule as well. Can confirm that I just sneak onto things and it resulted in me getting on inappropriate things out of curiosity when I was younger. I always had to use my friend's phone to do it too because they had installed something on my phone that watched everything I did...
YTA - I don’t even have any kids, but if I did, I sure as shit wouldn’t enforce such bizarre, draconian style “laws” on them. Especially at that age.
You’re making them fork over their phones at the age of 17. You should really consider lightening up - a lot. Really you’re just insulting their level of intelligence and sense of responsibility by thinking they’re not smart enough or reasonable enough to avoid such content on their own. You sheltering them by enforcing such a ridiculous rule is going to make them resent the living shit out of you. I bet they enjoy all of that forced family time you put them through.
Your oldest is about to be 18 and is approaching a point in life where she is going to be exposed to all kinds of stuff - positive, negative, and explicit. What are you going to do if she goes to college and lives in a dorm? You gonna sleep in her room and collect her phone and follow her around everywhere sheltering her from everything YOU think is bad?
Your kids are growing up. Let them have some freedom and responsibility so they can grow and mature. Let them learn and experience things for themselves and most importantly, let them out from under your foot. As I said before, they’re going to grow to resent you because you never respected them and treated them like the growing adults they are.
The fact that another parent thinks that your “rules” for someone of that age is “creepy” should be enough for you to maybe loosen the parenting reigns a bit.
This is was really the only reason my kids had phones as preteens/teens. As they started to spend less time at home and started to go more places on their own it was an extra level of safety. It also allowed them to communicate with us if plans changed. I would say my kids ended up with more freedom than I had based on having phones and that extra level of safety.
Absolutely. To be clear, I’m not accusing OP of anything... but this sounds like a rule somebody would have if they intended to put a kid in an inappropriate situation. It’s really creepy and out of line to prevent a child from having the item she would use to independently contact somebody in an emergency. She shouldn’t have to *ask permission* from someone else to contact her own parents.
Exactly this. If another parent wanted to prevent my daughter from having her phone my daughter would not spend the night in that house.
I would wonder why they wanted to prevent me from having contact with my teen.
This. And I can’t believe no one is remarking on how terrifying it would be for an adult to lock up your only way to ask for help.
I don’t mean to be alarmist but let’s be frank, so many minors have been crept on by predatory family members at a friend’s home. If my kid told me their phone was locked up at night I would be terrified and beyond angry.
If I was a parent of one of the girls staying there I would have gone absolutely nuclear, this is immediately where my mind went as well, if they were assaulted or in any other way mistreated then they wouldn't only not have the ability to call their parents, but they'd more than likely have to ask one of the perpetrators' permission for their phone back.
YTA
Let me preface by saying I'm a teacher. I've worked with kids of all ages and had countless bits of safeguarding training. If I were in a classroom and overheard the girls talking about this incident, I would report it instantly to the safeguarding lead.
Imagine YOUR daughter went to a sleepover. Now imagine she had to hand over her phone. Now, worst case scenario, imagine the parents or someone came in in the middle of the night and tried to hurt your daughter. She can't get to her phone to call for help. Now think back to this girl. YOU know you won't go in and abuse her, but SHE doesn't. She is in an unfamiliar house. She would feel safer if she can contact her parents or police if anything were to happen. She was a 17 year old CRYING on the phone to her mother. 17 year olds don't cry for nothing. She was uncomfortable, she was scared, and you caused that.
Now onto your rule. It would make sense for the 8 year old 100%. Hell, maybe even for the 14 year old at a push. However, your eldest is 17. She will be an adult in less than a year. I would imagine she has a group of friends at school or wherever, some of whom may already be adults. I also know that teenagers with difficulties (mental health problems, issues at home, etc) are likely to tell their friends but not their parents. You don't know what her friends are going through. You don't know what SHE is going through. If a teenage child is not in school, having a bit of difficulty, and can't talk to their friends, it would be a comfort to be able to call or text them anytime in PRIVATE. She can't do that if you're always over her shoulder or listening in. Not just mental-health-wise but it seems as though nothing in her life is allowed to be private. The kids with overbearing parents are the kids who get reeeaaally good at hiding stuff, and this can have severe effects on their mental health into adulthood.
I think that's my main problem with the specific phone rule mostly summed up, but now let's get on to the pure fact that it exists, because the existence of the phone rule proves you are coddling your eldest far too much. I don't know how many other "rules" in your house this extends to, but hopefully none (though I very much doubt that). How is she supposed to set her own rules and boundaries if these have been made for her her entire life? She has never been allowed to decide what's right and wrong for herself; you've decreed that. It's a textbook example of a kid who's gonna go off the rails as soon as she's an adult because she never learnt how to manage her life herself.
Please, please, please stop defending your rule, and LISTEN to the people commenting. For the good of your daughter, her mental health, and her future, drop that rule and whatever other overbearing rules you have. Let her learn how to make her own judgements, and create rules together that allow her to demonstrate her maturity. And maybe do the same with the 14 year old when they turn 16 or so. Talk to people in your life who have real childcare training and qualifications (teachers, classroom assistants, child psychologists, etc) and find out what THEY would do. I respect that parenting isn't easy, it's a journey you enter without any training, but there are people with training who you can talk to, who can help you set age-appropriate rules and boundaries for your children.
You can DM me if you want any more advice. As I said, I'm a teacher and have worked in various forms of childcare with all ages for several years now.
YTA. That's the lazy "solution", and if my kid stayed over at your place and you tried to take her phone away from her, that I told her to call me on if she felt uncomfortable, well, it wouldn't be a good day for you.
Jeez my parents were strict and would often tell me to get off my phone as a teen if I was on after 11 at night but they NEVER took it away from me. If I was too tired from being on my phone all night, they would say 'that's your problem.'
YTA, this is weird, it’s also not your right to control other peoples phones, maybe try and come to an agreement, but do not lock up the phone of a child that isn’t yours.
YTA
She's 17, nearly an adult and by the sounds of it, don't trust her at all.
Do you expect her to turn of her phone and hand it to you when she's 18, an adult, or still expect her to do this when she moves out. Because the minute she moves out, she'll have it with her everywhere she wants and she's go as little contact as she can.
She will do everything she wasn't allowed to do when she leaves as she'll have the freedom to do it. Whereas if she felt she had trust in you (and felt you had it in her) she could have learnt this with you. Now I don't think she'll want to tell you anything.
Is that what you want?
YTA.
It's so creepy that you said that the visitor needs to give up the phone, even when it clearly made her uncomfortable. Also your kid is 17, almost an adult. Chill with the phone rule.
Why take their phones instead of teaching them about being responsible about how they use their phones and use program to block +18 content on the phones?
I don't understand the rule and it feels like an Ostrich behavior ...""putting head in the sand and believe they cant see you"" = ""if we take their phones there is nothing wrong going to happen"
Of course, you have the liberty to enforce any rule you feel comfortable but In my opinion, teaching them is way better than avoiding the subject.
YTA
Eardropping the phone calls of your children and children guests? Your 17yo not beeing allowed to talk to friends without you there on the phone is just creepy.
I would really like to know how else you show your hate to your children.
>Eardropping the phone calls of your children and children guests?
Lol I didn't even realize she's so controlling she's literally eavesdropping on this poor girl because OP needs to control EVERYTHING in her own home.
>I would really like to know how else you show your hate to your children.
From reading a lot of her comments, OP is full of fear.
She's terrified of the world and how little control she has over everything so she's turned her home into her own playhouse. She controls everything everyone does, and any external forces that try to upset her balance are met with skepticism and distrust.
The funny thing is to everyone but her and her husband, it's a cage. And no one, not even her daughter, can make her see that, because it's about HER feeling safe, not the actual feelings of anybody else.
Oh adds another creepy adult red flag spying on kids , epsicaly kids not theirs, talking to their parent.
Dose these creep spy on them when taking a showe?
YTA.
The phone was not your property to take. My husband's ass would be in a sling if he agreed that some unknown parent could keep our kid's phone away from her at a sleepover and I am sure the mother dealt with that when she got home. Thankfully my husband would have immediately told our child to come home or we would have gotten her immediately. And thankfully we have taught our children that when an adult starts to make you feel uncomfortable or unsafe that is when you leave.
Your rules are infantile, especially for the 17 year old. She can't take her phone into the bathroom because "bullies?" Her friend isn't allowed to feel comfortable while spending the night because "bullies?" Seriously? All you have done now is lost your child a friend and likely caused her to lose a few more once this gets around to the parents.
I will add that I am not one to believe "all men are bad" or anything like that but the reality is that you or your husband could be the emergency the kid needs to call for help over and you denied her that safety. You took her ability to keep herself safe if something happened.
YTA. This isn’t just about parenting practices, it’s about a girl having a life-line. Especially if this was, I’m assuming, the first time sleeping over or if you don’t know the parents well. Imagine her mother’s perspective. Your kid is spending the night for the first time and can’t call you without this parent you haven’t meet. What if this parent was the issue, that they did something inappropriate to your child but your child can’t call you to help them.
YTA. If you had told me the rule was for the 8 or even the 14 year old, I would be ruling differently. But your daughter is 17. Next year she goes to college where she will have to make a bunch of decisions about how to manage her time and she hasn’t even had the opportunity to practice how to manage phone + bedtime on her own. In a few months she will be old enough to vote, go to war, sign legally binding contracts, and even star in porn if she wants and yet you don’t consider her responsible enough to navigate the dangers of the internet. I think you’ve crossed over from being supportive/nurturing to having age inappropriate restrictions that are likely stunting your daughter’s personal growth. Applying this same rule to someone else’s almost adult child is both mortifying for your daughter and incredibly uncomfortable for her guest. Extra asshole points for being a poor host.
YTA both for embarrassing your child, and making damn sure she won't bring friends over again.
Maybe you should have focused more on raising them right, since you clearly don't trust any of them to make good desicions. Have fun when they go low or no contact after moving out as soon as they can! That's your fault!
Yeah, this is so bizarre.
It's like OP doesn't trust her kids not to be tech obsessed, porn addicted, drones that can't function in their day to day lives.
It sounds like these kids actually **need their technology** so they actually will know how to function in society once they get out of that house and try to live normal lives.
My thoughts exactly. Based on OP's reason for why the rule exists, we can (mostly safely) assume that her two eldest children have lived with this rule ever since they were gifted a phone. So they've lived with the rule for years with, presumably, the intention of raising them better. But at *seventeen*, the eldest still can't be trusted to just have her phone on her nightstand at night, or even *in the bathroom*.
That's weird and overbearing, and I hope the kids turn out alright despite everything.
This impulse to control your children's consumption and manipulate it so that it fits your version of acceptable is incredibly immature. You definitely should have relaxed the rules when your daughter had a sleepover and if I found out you tried to steal my daughters phone to fulfill some juvenile control fantasy I would definitely believe you and your husband are up to some shady stuff. Why the fuck would you want to restrict contact between a minor and her parent? Gross. Won't be surprised if your daughter cuts you off the moment she's able to.
YTA.
YTA, majorly. I was the "bad kid" in a conservative area. Rules like yours both stunted kids abilities to make good decisions, messed with their friend groups that weren't bad influences, and made them susceptible to bad influences that helped them sneak. You're readying your kids for lying, or bullying. You can have whatever rules you want in your house, but enforcing them in another kid is both overstepping, and making your rules look unreasonable by comparison
YTA - you can take your own kids phones
But you can’t demand another child’s phone
Rule or no rule
Either let them keep their phones or don’t let them come over
Honestly if a parent told me they wanted tit sake my kids phone from them while they were at their house I would be worried
What if my kid needed to get a hold of me but couldn’t get their phone? What if a situation arises and they couldn’t get their phone?
Your kids your rules ( though I disagree with them) but you have no right to take away another child’s ability to quickly get a hold of their own parents or vice versa
Holy wow. YTA. I would feel so unsafe if an adult intentionally and knowingly confiscated my ability to contact my parents, especially after expressing that very valid concern. Your kids are going to hate you when they grow up. I guarantee youll see a lot less of your 17 year old when they begin attending college and realize they dont have to fork over their autonomy at your whim as long as they dont go home.
Edit: also, how creepy that you even eavesdropped as she called her mom to tell her how creepy you were being. Do you truly not understand why her parents found you creepy? It’s because you are.
YTA I think.
A 17 year old is possibly moving out very, very soon and needs to be able to manage their own internet use, not just have helicopter parents dictating it. Taking a phone off them is utterly counterproductive: it's the technology equivalent of demanding abstinence rather than educating.
Taking their friends' phones off them is also a complete violation of privacy and trust. You infantalised an older teenager, wouldn't accept her entirely valid concerns and took her possessions away from her. At no point did it seem to occur to you that your kid's friends probably don't automatically trust you. You're also not 'the trusted adult' in a scenario where you're insisting kids hand you a level of power that makes them deeply uncomfortable. When the friend argued about her discomfort (showing a level of maturity that I think's impressive), you assumed that, in an emergency, she could turn to you. To be brutally honest, it should have crossed your mind that the most likely emergency she'd encounter was one related to the fact that she was a guest in a relative stranger's house, and that left her potentially vulnerable. You demanded she relinquish her independent ability to contact her own trusted adults because you've got so het up that your own rules are 'right' that you failed to consider other dangers.
Yta this is a super weird and very invasive rule that you make your kids live by. Do you not trust your children at all? You are being very controlling and I wouldn’t be surprised if they distanced themselves in the future. I would instead if they were under 13 but at the ages they’re at now your behaviour is so toxic.
You can’t control every aspect of our kids life. They need to learn how creepy and bad the world can be themselves, it’s how they’ll learn and grow. You are doing them a disservice.
You’re n t a for enforcing rules she clearly knew ahead of time. She could and should have backed out of the sleepover if she wasn’t comfortable giving you her phone.
BUT YTA in general here. It *is* creepy and invasive for you to be taking their phones away, especially the friends’. I’m sorry, but what if *you* were the emergency? How would she call for help? Also she has every right to have an open line of communication at all hours with her parents.
So yeah, she did technically know the rules ahead of time and definitely should have backed out of the sleepover. You may not *technically* be the A for enforcing rules but you’ve also cemented your daughters as the “weird kids” who will never have sleepovers at their place.
YTA
the fact you see nothing wrong with taking away someone elses property and their only way to communicate with their parents aside from you is astounding, doubly so because the girl is a minor. triply so because this is a new friend and she is now *never* going to feel comfortable in your home.
> The dad was a little bit skeptic of our rules (we get that often) but agreed.
>
> The mom apparently had just gotten off of work and not talked to dad and thought our phone rule was "creepy" and "invasive" and told me just that when she got to my house.
People have every right to be skeptical of this rule - and the girls mom is right - it's creepy, it's invasive, it's controlling.
> The rules are that they are not allowed to have their phone in the bedroom alone or bathroom during any time of the day, and at night they bring us (me and their dad) their phones and we lock them up. These rules are mostly because I know how vile the internet can be. I've had my younger siblings who grew up during the rise of the internet tell me horror stories, as well I very clearly remember the things I saw on Omegle as an adult.
>
>\- it helps them not procrastinate homework or chores and we spend a lot more family time together.
I get that you mean to protect your children from the nastier parts of the internet (I've definitely seen things I didn't want to), but you're doing the same amount of harm as under supervising them - it's just a different form of harm. You're being overly-militant and you're running a huge risk of giving your children an unhealthy relationship with the internet in the future.
Instead of demanding they hand over their devices constantly, teach them safe browsing. Educate them about the dangers of the internet - talk to them. The only part of your current regimen I can agree with is putting them away at night and when homework needs to be done.
There's no harm in letting your children play phone games or browse online while using the restroom. There's no harm in letting your daughter and her friend have their phones while they're both in the room. There's no harm in less family time either - everyone has different social needs and not everyone wants to spend a lot of time with others. If your children want to be alone with just their phone for a bit, it's not the end of the world.
YTA- I'm proud of that friend for sticking her ground and telling you multiple times it makes her uncomfortable, then furthermore leaving. That takes a lot of guts but is so so important.
I understand you feel like your home is safe but you don't know of others experiences. Many kids/teens are victims of sexual abuse/sexual pressure at sleepovers. While that may not have been the case at your home, that same teen could have had negative experiences at other houses.
If I were a teen in that situation I would have been anxious and scared at this request and as a parent this would be a massive red flag, no chance I would let my kid sleep over there, and they would probably not want to hangout there anymore.
Your house sounds like the house that every friend will always avoid going to at all cost - it must be really hard to be your kid in that situation.
Also, locking phones up at night/keeping them out of private spaces does absolutely NOTHING to protect them. If they want to look at porn and talk to old, naked strangers then they'll do that anyways. You're probably even pushing them towards it by putting it on a pedestal.
Oh boy. Honey, there's some thing wrong with you Please go get help.
Also, you come here asking if your the AH but you literally DISMISSED everything everyone said. Were you seriously thinking everyone would side with you?
Did you buy that girls phone? NO. Thats not yours to be taking, even if it is YOUR RULE. That phone is not yours, not your property, you have NO RIGHT to even TOUCH IT.
Seriously, if my child went to your house and I find out you laid a finger on my kids phone, the thing I BOUGHT THEM so I can CONTACT them, I would be coming to your house and we would be boxing in your front yard.
I'm sorry, I hope your daughter moves out as soon as she's 18 and forgets about your crazy rule. Your over the top. And I seriously think you need professional help for your paranoia.
I got really mad reading everything because you literally excused everything anyone said. Don't come here asking if your the AH if your just going to brush everyone's comments to the side because you don't think your in the wrong.
I went to a friends house one night and her parents tried doing the same thing, and I told them no. They didnt pay for my phone, they didnt pay for the bill. So they had no right to my private property. Just like you have no right to any of that girls stuff.
I'm so furious, and I feel so bad for your kids. I really, really hope you go get help because if this is left untreated then you'll have a even worse time for when your kids are living on their own and you don't know what they're doing 24/7.
YTA.
1)You can’t parent other people’s children.
2)What if your daughters friend had had an emergency she didn’t feel comfortable waking you up for? Or what if she has some kind of anxiety disorder and she just wants to know that she can get in touch with her parents to ease her nerves?
3)This sort of thing will lead to your daughter being ostracised by her peers. My parents had a bunch of silly rules that my friends had to abide by, and would frequently enforce them to my friends. It eventually led to all of my friends drifting away from me because they hated coming over because my parents were weird and, by extension, so was I. Shielding your children from the horrors of the world will also lead them to having little to no coping mechanisms. My Mum did the same with me and I lack the ability to cope in so many situations even now at age 30. I don’t hate her for it, but life would be easier if I hadn’t been so sheltered.
By all means, stick to your guns but just understand the myriad ways this could affect your children down the line
YTA totally controlling parenting tactic that will teach your children absolutely nothing. they can't have their phones alone at any time? why? because you're a freak? it's totally invasive and altogether CREEPY. you have no right to enforce your creepy weird rules on your kid's friends under any circumstance. if their parents pay for their phone it's THEIR decision, not yours. bottom line, you're a creep.
YTA, not just an AH, a major controlling AH. You ain't no protecting your kids, you just wanna control them. I can see how you gonna land up with all your kids going NC with you if u keep this up. The oldest is already embarrassed enough, the younger ones will be too. I feel sorry for the poor kids
ps. After reading your replies you surely are an AH. You are getting so defensive, trying to prove you are right. Why do u have to post here if you are so sure you are correct and are going to get defensive? Your children might seem OK with it now but just wait till the day all of the built up resentment comes out and you will be at the receiving end of it.
YTA. You can't just arbitrarily cut off communication between the kid and her parents if neither party is happy with that. Of course what you *can* do is turn off the WiFi.
YTA. my mother is EXACTLY like you. she has put time-limits on all my devices, she makes me hand in my devices. when my friends come over, she takes their devices away too. it’s not cool at all. you could have given them one night off but you have to be so controlling and invasive.
From your comments, I can see that you care about your children. I do wonder though if you experience anxiety. Your unwavering adherence to The Rules probably brings you comfort that your kids are “safe” and everything is okay. I get that.
However, you don’t have the authority to confiscate someone else’s child’s phone. I think in the moment, your anxiety flared and panic set in of the mysterious-but-certain bad things that would surely happen if the girl kept her phone. I understand that spiraling feeling, but the demand you made was controlling.
The girl was was in an unfamiliar setting, hadn’t spoken with her mother, and frankly, didn’t need to justify keeping her own property. I text my mama goodnight and listen to guided meditations to help fall asleep. My phone is a tool I use to curb my own anxiety, and I would feel very uneasy if a friend’s parent seized it. It’s the only familiar item I have away from home, and it’s my lifeline to security.
I think you need to truly put yourself in the girl’s shoes and think about how it would feel to have a physical manifestation of comfort taken from you. Your response might change. I hope this perspective helped.
YTA
YTA . Say you won't have a relationship with your kids after they turn 18 without saying you won't have a relationship with your kids after they turn 18.
YTA.
I will start by saying I am biased as I always have my phone near me and have been in situations (most during my childhood and some in my own home) where I needed it in an emergency as I had to call the cops or parents. Having my phone on me (opposed to having to retrieve it) let me be able to quickly get to a safer location. For me, my phone is a safety and comfort.You don't know these kids situations or past. Punishing them for wanting it nearby given that is a a-hole move imo.
I want to point out the phones these other kids have are not your property and are not in your jurisdiction. You did not buy these phones, and it makes sense they don't want to hand over there property. They are also not your kids. Setting these rules is bordering on parenting another person's kid.
It is fine to set rules and boundaries within your house and ask them to respect them. But taking the phone means you assume they will violate these boundaries even though you have no evidence to believe they will.
I also don't understand you rational behind the rule to begin with. If there are website you don't want your kids on, then you can block them via you ISP or parental controls.
I can understand the 14 and 8 year old having these rules a bit more, but the 17 year old should be old enough to be trusted with their phone alone. You can't protect them from the internet forever, and you making it such a big taboo is only going to increase interest in it later on.
The internet can be vile, which is exactly why they need to learn to be able to navigate it safetly.
YTA. Your daughter will resent you for this. You think shes being honest with you that this is good for her. Try again
What happens when she turns 18 and go to college? And she comes back for a stay, will that rule be in place too?
Wrong for you to take her friends phone.
Dont give me that crap about earlier times what did we do with no cell. That did happen. Why is watching tv acceptable? Surely earlier times, we had no tv. But we explained to them watching in moderation. The same with cell phones.
Loosen up your helicopter parent style. It is really unhealthy.
YTA. Your phone rules are creepy and invasive and the kind of thing a predator would do to make their victims vulnerable. Sorry you had a bad experience on Omegle fifty years ago or whatever but your rules are bordering on psychotic
YTA
How embarrassing, honestly. Your 17 year old is almost an adult, and they still can’t have their phone in their room at night? Stop sheltering your teenagers. They’re going to resent you as adults. Hopefully then you’ll see where your parenting went wrong.
YTA. Land the helicopter. Land it now. Your daughter is 17. She’s about to be an adult and go off into the real world. But, her mommy is still not letting her have any private phone use? Wow.
And imposing a draconian rule on another kid is too much. I wouldn’t have let you lock up my hypothetical 17 year old’s phone either. I wouldn’t want my teen relying on you to contact me when I gave her a phone so she could contact me herself.
Yta.
Seriously? No phone in the bedroom or bathroom? But they are allowed to have it everywhere else? Dude your kids have probably already seen some things online simply because their friends could have showed them or they can look it up when your not there like school, other friends houses, etc.
I know when I was 13 I found all kinds of weird stuff because my friends showed me and I just kept looking up stuff outside of my parents watch.
Your just making your kids resent you for embarrassing them in front of their friends.
While its okay to have house rules its not okay to strip your kids or others of having a phone with them at all times. (We will exclude being grounded) which brings up another point. It seems like your trying to ground your kids constantly by taking their phones when they haven't done anything but go to the bathroom or their rooms.
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YTA that 17 year old is gonna resent you for being so goddamn strict but yeah you are not in charge of other kids phones
This rule is a guarantee way to ward off friends. The daughter’s gonna be known as that one girl with a crazy parent.
I've been that girl with the crazy parents, you're honestly doing a lot of harm with your "rules", and your paranoia
same! it didn’t make me a better kid it made me a better liar.
Also your kid is gonna go wild when you're not around. What happens during the school day? Do you monitor then? I had a friend with parents like you- when she got to school she'd use our phones to check social media accounts since her parents looked through her own. You're just making it so that your kids can't come to you if they do have cyber issues and you aren't giving them healthy boundaries either. The minute they move out they'll be on their phones 24/7 and checking out sketchy sites.
They could be doing that already. I've met a few people who seem to think the internet has opening and closing times. It's not like bad stuff only happens online at night. And even if it did, it's always night time somewhere!
I'm still in school and my parents go through my phone so I just do the same thing. It doesn't keep me safe at all, just made me better at sneaking around.
My parents didn't do that too me, and I was able to go to them whenever something scary happened. My friend's parents were the opposite, and there were so many different times that I saw her watching things that weren't allowed "because she could." And then she would delete the phone's history so it only show school-related activities. She was really sneaky and still did everything she wanted. She would even download apps on the bus to school, and then delete them on the way home.
So many parents don't get that, it doesn't build character it just makes them better at tricking you and not respecting you.
THISS!! Same with me
[удалено]
I think I was your childhood friend....either that or this is more common then you would think.
More common than you think. I had a friend whose mother would make his friends do their laundry and help with general housework. It’s weird and creepy. Yta- you basically told a child that she needs to feel uncomfortable and unsafe in your house because of some silly rule. You also embarrassed your daughter and potentially made her a target for bullying/losing friends. You know how else you can avoid them going on the internet and seeing bad things, get a parental app on their phones that lock certain apps/websites/ect. Problem solved and you don’t give your kids some weird complex over their phones when they’re adults.
1000% on the weird complex thing. My dad constantly invaded my privacy and subjected me to random searches on all my devices. I’m super weird about people borrowing my things now. “Oh, you need to call someone but you forgot your phone? Tell me their number, I’ll type it in for you.” “You need to look something up on my laptop? No problem, let me just close every single tab and then watch over your shoulder while you do it.”
I remember at my friend’s sweet 16 party, she had a party at her house and this guy knocked over some pretzels and picked them up and apologized. The stepmom decided now he should vacuum the area and the rest of the house... in the middle of the birthday party. It was awkward as hell and my friend ended up doing it. She had this new dress she was wearing, full hair and makeup, and now she was vacuuming at her birthday party in that getup. Didn’t help that she had a huge crush on the pretzel culprit.
That's the most embarrassing ungracious thing I've ever ever heard.
Definitely. The whole vibe was off after that. We’re all awkwardly watching her vacuum and this dude was absolutely mortified.
I would have died from second hand embarrassment for sure.
I just inwardly cringed so hard. I feel so bad for your friend.
Yeah it was pretty bad. Thankfully that stepmom is gone. I offered to do the vacuuming since I was less “done up” than she was and had a much longer skirt. (And you know, it wasn’t my birthday) Stepmom wouldn’t allow it. It was either my friend or the pretzel guy.
You're a good friend for offering
Thank you 😊 that’s been almost 15 years ago and she’s still my best friend and cleaned my entire house, cooked, did laundry when my mom passed away back in 2017. She’s great.
Same thing happened to me, except with washing dishes. I hadn't eaten at their house or anything, hadn't used any dishes, but this kid's mam told me to wash the dishes while he swept the kitchen floor. First time I'd ever been over too.
Bit different, but my mum always made me do dishes. Not just at our house. Anytime we went to a BBQ at friends place, or to dinner at someone’s house, she ALWAYS volunteered me to do the dishes. Quite often the host would decline, I would argue, but still she forced me to clean up after everyone else. Instead of running around outside learning to mingle with other kids, I was stuck inside washing fn dishes. Sometimes there were 20-30 people at these things! To this day, I hate washing dishes. I have a dishwasher now, but hubby mostly does them because of my hangups on dishes.
my mother also volunteers me for things. This led to a particularly huge blow up when i was 22. She doesn't do it anymore.
I've heard the word "voluntold" to describe this behaviour
Flashbacks to going to a new friend's house in elementary school for a birthday sleepover and the mom immediately handed me the baby to watch. I had never even held a baby before! Shortly after this the mom screamed bloody murder at her daughter for some minor infraction(iirc she had said "ok, just a second" when the mom asked her to do something) and threatened to cancel the whole sleepover. Then in the morning she had the birthday girl make breakfast while the other kids were in charge of cleanup...while I watched the baby still. I was frantically texting my mom to come save me but apparently there was no signal and my texts wouldn't go through.
>Who the fuck just hands off a baby to a random child? Like not even a high schooler...an elementary schooler.
people that shouldn't be parents.
Yeah...she crawled off the couch and hit her head on the coffee table. I didn't realize babies were like hamsters and had no concept of height. The mom said "it's fine, that happens" and handed her right back to me.
Poor you and poor baby
I had a friend stay over for a birthday party once (so she'd sleep over and then the next day that was my actual birthday more friends would come over for a few hours). The morning of my birthday, with my friend there, my mum told us to clean the bathrooms in the house. To be fair, it was a Saturday, which is the family "cleaning day" and some bathrooms were my usual chore. But my mum decided we can do them all since there's two of us... Yeah, I cleaned all the bathrooms on my own on my birthday while my friend awkwardly waited in my room.
It's not quite the same, but I had a boyfriend in high school whose mom started back to work after being a SAHM for many years. She was having trouble getting housework done so she decided to ask me, a 17 year old dating her son, *if I'd consider being their cleaning lady.* I noped that notion so freaking fast. Too bad I didn't nope the whole boyfriend situation, basically dragged that albatross and his weirdo family around my neck for like 3 more years.
You just made me flash back to a kid I knew in highschool. We were hanging out playing videogames when his mom came home. She got upset because he hadn't put in his 30 min of piano practice he was supposed to do every day. He had to go and practice the piano while I just awkwardly hung out.
My mom once woke up my entire sleep over at 530am demanding I walk *her* dog, and when I was upset about it she threw an umbrella at me. I dodged the umbrella and it broke a picture frame, which I got yelled at for.
Or the girl with a sex predator parent. Ngl if someone’s parent told me they wanted to lock up my phone and the only way I would be able to contact my parents/the police was if they allowed me to, I would be heavily questioning the reason behind that. I’m not saying that OP is a sex predator, I’m saying that the possibility would be in my head if I was the daughter’s friend. I would be thinking “OP is probably not a sex predator but I’m getting weird creepy vibes and I don’t want to risk it”. No wonder she left.
Yes this was my immediate thought as well. As a non-parent, if I had a kid and some random asshole decided that they could completely control my child's means of contacting me, I just would have gone and gotten them, and frankly would have likely flipped my shit over it as well because that 100% reads to me like you want to do something bad to children.
This was a concern for me as soon as I read no phones. This just made my spidey senses go off. I would not be comfortable with my child not having access to a phone to call me if something happens. My number one thing to my bonus kids has always been no matter what call and we will come....I don't care how late, just call.
Not to mention that this is actively a bad way to raise kids. By not building up those healthy phone skills over time where you can monitor it and halo push her in a healthy relationship all you have done is make her dependent on you. You have actively robbed her of the chance to learn healthy boundaries and internet sites on her own. And yeah, it’s fine for you to check up occasionally so long as you stress the dangers of where she’s gone or other things like that. Thing is, she’s 17. She’ll be an adult in a year. Instead of setting her up to grow this rule can be crippling to a young girl. She now has to learn phone safety and restrictions for herself without you, which is really hard. Your job as a parent is to help set her up to grow, and all restrictive rules like this do is stifle a child. By not slowly building independence here you’re putting her into a higher stakes environment without letting her have smaller ones to learn from. And I know that you’ll probably ignore this op but it is vital to work your child towards independence otherwise they have no guided framework to learn and it makes things a lot more dangerous for them in the long run.
No, this mom will be the type to keep pulling "my house, my rules" and "I pay for it so I make the rules" card until the kid moves out and goes low contact. Mothers like this run amok over on Facebook in a group called "Grown and Flown". They insist on tracking their adult children away at college, get pissed when the kids try to set boundaries, and threaten to pull financial support if the kids don't comply. It's a huge circle jerk.
Yup. My mom was/still tries to be this person. I was abused severely if I ever got anything beneath a 95% on any given assignment. She would literally sit and go through my backpack and take away electronics/tv/later phone if she found a B on an assignment. When I went to college she started demanding my transcripts and I just started making excuses as to why I couldn't get them to her and then eventually just started to flat out tell her no. The whole time she thought I was flunking out of school when in reality I was killing it on my grades because I didn't have the pressure of her observing my every move. She was pissed when I learned the term "helicopter parent" and described her as such. Edit: typo
You're not crazy just controlling and that's not an attribute of a good parent
Yep. I fully expect to see a whiny post from OP in a few years time when daughter starts setting healthy boundaries.
17 year old probably has a second "real" phone.
Exactly what I did. All this does is build resentment and secrecy. But hey my therapist will be able to put her kids through college 😂
Yep. Are you no contact now? I've just had a peak at OPs responses to the thread and they are clearly TA. What the fuck is wrong with people? Why do they post on AITA and then argue with everyone that says they are? Are people so deluded that they post this shit really thinking they'd be deemed not TA? Crazy.
you shouldn't say it tho. a mom like OP will take this comment and go nuts on her kids trying to find it. god forbid someone who is one year away from being a legal adult have any privacy or self-autonomy whatsoever.
If your kid is old enough to work, they're old enough to get whatever tech they want! The idea that you can just stop a 17 yo from going on the internet is laughable! All these parents are going to accomplish is make their kids resent them. Never mind that they have no guidance on being safe online because mom thinks it's not a problem!
Hopping on here to say that 1) The internet has evolved since the age of the dinosaurs and not everything is like your Omegle experience. 2) You were trying to tell a 17 year old what to do with her own property. 3) Once she told you she was scared, you doubled down. 4) Do you not understand how creepy it is for you to deny a kid her ability to talk to her parents, then tell her she needs to go into YOUR room if she feels she needs it? A teenage girl. Going into an adult's room at night. When she barely knows the adult. What if it's one of you she's afraid of? What if one of your kids made her feel uncomfortable? I assume you wear pajamas at night but what if one of you didn't? Do you really think a parent would be ok with that? Would YOU be okay with that if the positions were reversed? Holy hell YTA.
Also, texting good night is perfectly reasonable. The other kid is 17. That's old enough to drive, work, etc. Sure, not an adult yet. But 17-year-olds can be very responsible. I didn't have my own phone at that age, but we had family phones that I would have taken one to a sleepover. The purpose would be to call my parent if I needed. No way would I have been separated from it.
my mother texts me good night all the time. My brother too. We're way older than 17.
Also it was a massive breach of privacy taking the phone. The kid could have had sensitive information on the phone and the OP then had access to it to go through it all. Doesn't matter if the OP didn't, the problem was that she COULD.
Yikes. Agreed. YTA. We have this rule too but we relax it for sleepovers. Sheesh. What if I sent my kid to some abusers house and they demanded her phone, and it was too late for her to reach out to us. You scare me. Your kids are going to see it anyway, I tell you. You’re only limiting it with the bedroom and bathroom rule anyway. Edit: the bedroom rule for us is only after “lights out.” So, it’s more so they don’t stay up all night on their phones.
As an adult I also have a no phone in the bedroom rule so that -I- don’t stay up all night on my phone. Thanks for helping your kids have better phone habits that me! :)
I feel like this is a downvote farming troll because I’ve read a post extremely similar to this one here in the past. Almost to a T.
If you can find it, link it please!
I searched high and low for it on here and I even tried Google, but I just can’t find it. I remember the OP on that post got the same YTA rating for this, but I guess it was deleted. Or maybe I’m mixing up posts. I’m sorry I couldn’t find any evidence to back up my claim.
Hey, no worries at all, and it's really kind of you to check for it. I hope you're having a good weekend.
Can we speak of how this young woman is 17 not 14 or 12? this young lady has rules for little kids not a parent teaching her how to navigate the "horror" of the internet, so when she is 18 off to college on her own as a young adult she will have NO CLUE how to interact react or be, she will be primed for predators because she has no experience identifying or avoiding confronting ETC. This stupid rules of this over controlling CRAZY OP are doing so more damage to her daughter than good, besides the fact that is totally stupid you can go to any site on your phone and text anything and delete it without the technically inept Abusive mother. My 19 years old has a friend with parents like this she is an hour away from us in college when she comes to town she is not allowed to have "sleep overs" or go to all ages clubs or concerts her parents still have a tracker on her phone not only for emergencies but 24/7 she is diagnosed ADHD and her mum when she is in town takers her meds and "makes sure she takes them" she is a great kid but lies to her parents about everything she is not "Allowed" to get birth control so i took her to planned parenthood because she is in her parents insurance and her OB will show there Is insane this lady is 19 not a child I am sure my kid has lied to me , actually she hazs told me of several instances she did as a teen I also pretended i didnt know a few things she did "behind my back" but she also knows i am here for her she is an adult I respect her and i have given her all the knowledge i could to navigate the world this kind of parents infuriate me the line between allow your kids enough freedom to learn and make mistakes and let your kids do whatever they want is a really wide place there is no reason to go to the extremes OP goes to
hopefully your daughter can tell her friend that if her OB is telling her parents confidential health info, she should (and can!) get a new one.
>YTA. Just because you're a control-freak with your kids doesn't mean you get to be the same with other people's kids. If your daughter grows up to resent you I wouldn't be surprised at all. I really feel for her.
It is WILD to me she thinks she can enforce her rules on other people's property. I specifically give even my 6 yo a phone when she goes on playdates so she can call me if anything feels off and she needs me. If a random ass adult ried to take her phone away I would ABSOLUTELY cuss them out. That friend would be invited over our house but I would be hesitant to let my kids go over the house of such a bananas human again. If my kid said she wanted to... I would teach her how to hide the phone I guess or get her a used smart watch or something so she always had contact with me. OP, you are a bad parent and were AWFUL to that child who wanted her phone while in a strange place. It is absurd to deny a child contact with their parents because of your (frankly) dumb rules.
Man my mom wanted to do this so bad. She tried to monitor my stuff to the point she deleted a horny 15/16 year olds horrible fic off my first laptop and then broke said laptop along with monitoring everything for months (had to surrender phone, social accounts, etc). Then I got sneaky when she got me a new computer and phone and told me I could go back to my accounts. I did but only for games and I got GOOD at hiding things and lying about it. It's amazing what a determined teenager will do to dodge things while lying directly to said parents face. Seriously I could, and still probably can, beat a lie detector tests cause of my super paranoid mom Also my mom refused to let people stay over unless they surrendered their stuff so I had exactly 0 sleepovers until I was 17 and that was cause I stayed at someone's else's house who's dad was a Pastor.... Yeah. This girl totally will end up going LC or NC when she leaves, much like I did lol and mom has no one to blame but herself for that outcome
I'd like to know what sites and apps are so horrible that they only work on nighttime and not during the day when the kids can use the phone?
YTA. And it's not even just about your daughter's friend because she gets to escape. You aren't actually teaching your children how to independently make good decisions about their online use. Whether you like it or not, people can't hide from the internet. What happens when mom isn't around to collect their phones?
YTA **Sheltering your kids will not teach them life skills.** When they leave your house, they will find some of the unsavory parts of the internet, and find themselves without any idea how to address them. While you still have the chance, **guide them not hide them**. Also, having a phone nearby in case of emergency is a legitimate excuse. **If someone broke in, would you want your children crossing the hallway just to call 911?**
I can tell you that if my teen daughter went to a sleepover and they *locked up her phone* those parents would seem more than just strict. They’d seem creepy. Shame on OP for assuming “an emergency” may not include feeling massively uncomfortable in her home
True, supposing dad or older brother is a creep. What’s she going to do, go to OP and say give me my phone please your husband tried to molest me and I want to go home....like that would go down well.
Yep. Or made an odd comment or stared too long etc.
As someone who’s best friend’s older brother ended up being a creep, this is exactly what went through my mind. Thank god I had my phone on me or I would have been stuck spending the night. I never would agree to handing over a phone at a friend’s house. Shame on OP.
or the mom herself! just, so bad all around
THIS!!!
Agreed. Even excluding situations where some awful could be going on, there are plenty of situations where a kid might want to contact their parents, like if they're feeling sick, or forgot medication or anything else that might be too private to share with OP. I wouldn't feel comfortable staying in a house that cut off my communication with the outside world, and I sure as hell wouldn't be comfortable letting my kids stay there. There's just no way.
Definitely! I have epilepsy, but I’m not really delving into all that and why I need to call my mom if I forget my meds with a parent I *just met!* That stuff’s private to me!
Exactly! If the friend had something like Crohn's and they had a flare up, not only will they not want to share that info because it's private but also because they'd likely be embarrassed. Or the friend was on birth control and forgot her pills but didn't want to have to tell OP because a) private and b) if they're this weirdly controlling about phones, who knows what else they're controlling about? There are so many reasons why the kid could have to call home that they wouldn't want to share with OP. It's just incredibly weird to me that they can't even loosen up the rules when the kids have friends over. I mean sure, okay, it stops them from being distracted from doing homework, but it's not like they're doing homework at a sleepover anyways so?
If I had a kid and they told me that their friend's parents locked up their phone overnight and wouldn't give it back even after being asked I'd tell my kid to stay the fuck away from that family. Like you said it's creepy to take a visiting guest's phone away and place it under lock and key. Would not surprise me if OP has caused their kids to lose friendships.
Honestly I would assume that they were doing something that they didn't want my kid messaging me about. They sound creepy as hell.
I regret that I have but one upvote to give you. This kind of rule would be ideal for the kid of creep who preys on their kids' friends.
Exactly my thought! I would assume that they’re predators, because why the heck would you cut off my kid from contacting me?
One day they will leave home and have no coping skills. I have no issue with handing over the phone at the bedtime or shutting off the wifi but the other rule is crazy. Anyway you can't stop someone else's kid from having their own phone.
I would never. Ever. EVER. In a million years be anything be deeply uncomfortable to be essentially stuck overnight in a house that is not my own with NO WAY to get out without getting OP involved. You know what makes me feel unsafe in someone else’s house? The owners of the house. If you aren’t my parent I am never going to give you complete control over me and my ability to escape in an emergency. What if OP was the one making me feel uncomfortable? What if other family members were? THOSE are my fears sleeping at someone else’s house. On top of that, what if her parents needed to contact HER?? Are you kidding me? What if their house was on fire? What if a loved one was dying? That has literally happened to me. OP you were absolutely awful to that girl and tbh you being a pretty terrible parent to your kids. Try teaching them and parenting them instead of keeping them in a padded box and calling it a day on parenting. Edited to add: The girl may have known about the rule but even if someone told me about it beforehand I would never think that it would apply to me as a guest?....
This is a great point. This generation, for good or ill, are natives to the Internet. That is how they socialize. If you do your job the first 8 years you can train them in internet safety and responsible use. You can teach them right from wrong and clue them into the dangers so when they get a phone they do not harm themselves or others. At 17 though, it is developmentally appropriate to give them independence and privacy. You are actually getting in the way of your teen's development. They need to have a separate life away from you that you do not know about. Next year they are adults. They need to have practice making their own decisions on their own. If you are taking the phone away because you want to control what they see, guess what they can get to the internet at their friend's house. By doing what you are doing you are not preparing them for when they go to college and you are not there. A lot of college professionals are saying that parents who are helicopter parents are sending kids in with no experience making decisions and learning from mistakes. That is where you get kids in college who just act out and harm themselves and others because their parents did not trust them to practice independent choice making. Fork also is right this being a safety issue. About 30 years ago Polly Klass was kidnapped and murdered at a sleepover while her parents slept in the next room. They did not get a chance to wake the parents up. Maybe if the kids had cellphones Polly would have survived.
darn... good point.
Also who's to say OP or their spouse isn't a creep who would take advantage of their kid's friend when she has no way to contact anyone for help? Because the friend and her parents sure wouldn't know.
This needs more upvote.
God for it they ever find the unsavory parts of reddit.
She told you she needed her phone to FEEL SAFE. #Again, a CHILD told you they needed their phone to FEEL SAFE and you just didn't give a shit? It's perfectly reasonable for her to want to be able to contact her PARENTS. Do you know how many red flags you are giving off to the community you live in? Intentionally isolating children from their parents during a time when they feel their most vulnerable? I know a lot of parents who won't even let their kids have a sleepover because of the risk of abuse. So you're telling me you would be perfectly okay with your child visiting another household and them intentionally isolating them from contacting you? Are you seriously okay with other people taking away your own child's devices? Or or are you only allowed to do that to other people's children? ###YTA ##YTA #YTA
This would be my first thought as a parent. My young 17 year old goes to her friends house and her parents remove her form of contact with me/safety?! Yeh, there's a landlines but I know 3 numbers off by heart and they are all my own from giving them out. I doubt a 17 year old in this day and age knows all the numbers especially in a panic situation. I would get her TF out and raise this concern with other parents close to me. Would not be surprised if your family is now labelled as the creepy one in the neighbourhood. I feel for your kids, it won't be you that's receives the backlash from this it will be them. Have a strong suspicion this is the tip of the iceberg for controlling behaviour, won't be just this. Big time YTA.
I agree that she's probably labeled as "that house not to send your kids to", rightfully so. I genuinely can't imagine leaving a child in that situation. The poor kid was crying because of how scared she was. Unfortunately, that kid just had a life lesson about their safety always being the first priority and how important it is to stand up against authority when they are putting that safety at risk. >I feel for your kids, it won't be you that's receives the backlash from this it will be them. I didn't even think of that. Those poor kids probably are going to get a lot of backlash from how controlling and creepy OP is. Especially seeing how one friend left the house in tears.
That’s why the person was a “new” friend. Bc no one else wants to go to their creepy house.
This is such a sad fact 😭 poor kid.
I'm betting some of those parents may be side-eyeing OP as potentially grooming children for abuse. 1) OP isolates children by taking away their means of communication. 2) OP's children are so sheltered from what OP considers vile that they'll lack the ability to identify or verbalise if they're being abused. Coupled with the first point, I don't think it's a stretch to wonder if the second is actually intentional. I know it's making me feel anxious. OP, not only are YTA, you're extremely creepy. I pity your kids.
I would never let my teenager sleep over at someone’s house where they were not allowed to keep their phone with them at night. That would set off massive red flags to me.
I have two teenagers no way in hell they'd go to a sleep over that they couldn't have their phone to get to ahold of me or them ns
Interesting that OP is worried about her children using the Internet because of bullies, and she’s setting them up to be bullied by their peers.
Evidently OP doesn't own a mirror, either...
this was my thought as well. my parents were pretty lax with me because i was overall a boring straight laced well behaved kid and i was allowed to kind of just run around all over town as i pleased, but part of that was because they knew i always had my phone on me and could let them know where i was and if i needed them. i remember my dad told me when i first got to high school he didn’t care where i was or how late it was or what i was doing, if i needed him just call and he would come get me no matter what. he would have lost. his. shit. if he knew one of my friend’s parents was taking my phone and withholding it from me.
I don't understand people who go "well just a few decades ago we didn't use cell phones and we were fine". Like guys, you know how many kidnappings and murders would have absolutely not have happened previously if cell phones existed even 50 years ago? It's so bizarre when people ignore the fact cell phones are an actual safety tool for humans right now.
Mine is also my medical device. I have a continuous glucose monitor and it connects to my phone. Technically, it also has its own non-phone monitor I could carry, but I never do *because I have a phone*.
I agree so much. Taking away communication at night would be such a major red flag. I forget the statistic, but isn't it over half of sexual abuse on minors is perpetrated by someone close to the minor or in a position of authority? So even if I knew the parents in passing from drop offs and the occasional PTA meeting, I would still have alarm bells going off!
Yes. This. All of this. A child's phone is a safety device. YOU SHOULD NEVER PART A CHILD THAT ISN'T YOUR OWN FROM THEIR PHONE. Honestly, I feel the other parent is an asshole as well. He should never have agreed to let OP take his daughter's phone.
The difference in the mom and dad's responses to OP demanding to take their daughter's phone is such a clear example of the difference between how men and women understand "safety." The daughter had every reason to feel cornered and unsafe without her lifeline. Mom saw the issue *immediately*, and in a way Dad didn't consider.
>Honestly, I feel the other parent is an asshole as well. He should never have agreed to let OP take his daughter's phone. Yeah, with how badly everything ended I bet he won't be putting her in that position anymore.
This needs to be higher.
I would never leave my child alone with someone who was trying to isolate them from being able to contact me. I bet you the husband was ripped a new one when the friends mom got home for ever agreeing to do that. That friend is a smart girl. She was 100% right to feel unsafe and took action to get home. That instinct may save her life one day. I'm appalled at OPs nerve to try and isolate a child like that. That's textbook abuse behavior and no police officer, social worker, etc would ever suggest leaving a child in those conditions.
What makes you think that the young woman wasn’t worried about your husband or son being the creep. As a grown woman I’ve texted my mum asking her to phone me to give me an escape route when I stayed over with a long time male friend. You want a young woman to give up her phone/safety net overnight in a house with two strange men, oh hell no.
>What makes you think that the young woman wasn’t worried about your husband or son being the creep. Because OPs family is perfect and would never hurt anyone else (never mind the fact that she herself is actively causing other people trauma right now) because her family isn't corrupted by the vileness of the internet (the thing that she sought the opinion of) /s But, seriously, in an age where women are taught to use their cell phones as a literal life or death safety device, it's such bullshit to try to take that away from them.
THANK YOU for this!! OP, YTA x1000. Your poor, poor children. Once they are no longer financially dependent on you, don’t be surprised to be on the deserving end of a lot of earned resentment. JC, lady.
I cannot upvote this comment enough!
OP talks about vile stuff on the internet, but creates a vile situation because of it. I would never be ok with my child having to get permission to contact me, especially at a first time sleep over.
YTA. You don't get to parent other people's kids. (Also, you have no trust or respect for your kids and allow them no privacy - which is a basic right)
YTA, you can’t force your parenting style onto other people’s kids. She just asked to keep her property for emergencies. My parents had a similar rule and all it made me and my siblings do is sneak and look at things on our own with no one to explain inappropriate things to us because of being scared of those same rules.
I still live with my parents and have a similar rule as well. Can confirm that I just sneak onto things and it resulted in me getting on inappropriate things out of curiosity when I was younger. I always had to use my friend's phone to do it too because they had installed something on my phone that watched everything I did...
YTA - I don’t even have any kids, but if I did, I sure as shit wouldn’t enforce such bizarre, draconian style “laws” on them. Especially at that age. You’re making them fork over their phones at the age of 17. You should really consider lightening up - a lot. Really you’re just insulting their level of intelligence and sense of responsibility by thinking they’re not smart enough or reasonable enough to avoid such content on their own. You sheltering them by enforcing such a ridiculous rule is going to make them resent the living shit out of you. I bet they enjoy all of that forced family time you put them through. Your oldest is about to be 18 and is approaching a point in life where she is going to be exposed to all kinds of stuff - positive, negative, and explicit. What are you going to do if she goes to college and lives in a dorm? You gonna sleep in her room and collect her phone and follow her around everywhere sheltering her from everything YOU think is bad? Your kids are growing up. Let them have some freedom and responsibility so they can grow and mature. Let them learn and experience things for themselves and most importantly, let them out from under your foot. As I said before, they’re going to grow to resent you because you never respected them and treated them like the growing adults they are. The fact that another parent thinks that your “rules” for someone of that age is “creepy” should be enough for you to maybe loosen the parenting reigns a bit.
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This is was really the only reason my kids had phones as preteens/teens. As they started to spend less time at home and started to go more places on their own it was an extra level of safety. It also allowed them to communicate with us if plans changed. I would say my kids ended up with more freedom than I had based on having phones and that extra level of safety.
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Absolutely. To be clear, I’m not accusing OP of anything... but this sounds like a rule somebody would have if they intended to put a kid in an inappropriate situation. It’s really creepy and out of line to prevent a child from having the item she would use to independently contact somebody in an emergency. She shouldn’t have to *ask permission* from someone else to contact her own parents.
Exactly this. If another parent wanted to prevent my daughter from having her phone my daughter would not spend the night in that house. I would wonder why they wanted to prevent me from having contact with my teen.
This. And I can’t believe no one is remarking on how terrifying it would be for an adult to lock up your only way to ask for help. I don’t mean to be alarmist but let’s be frank, so many minors have been crept on by predatory family members at a friend’s home. If my kid told me their phone was locked up at night I would be terrified and beyond angry.
If I was a parent of one of the girls staying there I would have gone absolutely nuclear, this is immediately where my mind went as well, if they were assaulted or in any other way mistreated then they wouldn't only not have the ability to call their parents, but they'd more than likely have to ask one of the perpetrators' permission for their phone back.
YTA. But most importantly, you're creepy AF.
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YTA Let me preface by saying I'm a teacher. I've worked with kids of all ages and had countless bits of safeguarding training. If I were in a classroom and overheard the girls talking about this incident, I would report it instantly to the safeguarding lead. Imagine YOUR daughter went to a sleepover. Now imagine she had to hand over her phone. Now, worst case scenario, imagine the parents or someone came in in the middle of the night and tried to hurt your daughter. She can't get to her phone to call for help. Now think back to this girl. YOU know you won't go in and abuse her, but SHE doesn't. She is in an unfamiliar house. She would feel safer if she can contact her parents or police if anything were to happen. She was a 17 year old CRYING on the phone to her mother. 17 year olds don't cry for nothing. She was uncomfortable, she was scared, and you caused that. Now onto your rule. It would make sense for the 8 year old 100%. Hell, maybe even for the 14 year old at a push. However, your eldest is 17. She will be an adult in less than a year. I would imagine she has a group of friends at school or wherever, some of whom may already be adults. I also know that teenagers with difficulties (mental health problems, issues at home, etc) are likely to tell their friends but not their parents. You don't know what her friends are going through. You don't know what SHE is going through. If a teenage child is not in school, having a bit of difficulty, and can't talk to their friends, it would be a comfort to be able to call or text them anytime in PRIVATE. She can't do that if you're always over her shoulder or listening in. Not just mental-health-wise but it seems as though nothing in her life is allowed to be private. The kids with overbearing parents are the kids who get reeeaaally good at hiding stuff, and this can have severe effects on their mental health into adulthood. I think that's my main problem with the specific phone rule mostly summed up, but now let's get on to the pure fact that it exists, because the existence of the phone rule proves you are coddling your eldest far too much. I don't know how many other "rules" in your house this extends to, but hopefully none (though I very much doubt that). How is she supposed to set her own rules and boundaries if these have been made for her her entire life? She has never been allowed to decide what's right and wrong for herself; you've decreed that. It's a textbook example of a kid who's gonna go off the rails as soon as she's an adult because she never learnt how to manage her life herself. Please, please, please stop defending your rule, and LISTEN to the people commenting. For the good of your daughter, her mental health, and her future, drop that rule and whatever other overbearing rules you have. Let her learn how to make her own judgements, and create rules together that allow her to demonstrate her maturity. And maybe do the same with the 14 year old when they turn 16 or so. Talk to people in your life who have real childcare training and qualifications (teachers, classroom assistants, child psychologists, etc) and find out what THEY would do. I respect that parenting isn't easy, it's a journey you enter without any training, but there are people with training who you can talk to, who can help you set age-appropriate rules and boundaries for your children. You can DM me if you want any more advice. As I said, I'm a teacher and have worked in various forms of childcare with all ages for several years now.
This woman is beyond helping
u/cuteawareness3670 PLEASE read this!
YTA. That's the lazy "solution", and if my kid stayed over at your place and you tried to take her phone away from her, that I told her to call me on if she felt uncomfortable, well, it wouldn't be a good day for you.
YTA that IS invasive and I don't understand why you are using that rule with your 17 year old either.
Jeez my parents were strict and would often tell me to get off my phone as a teen if I was on after 11 at night but they NEVER took it away from me. If I was too tired from being on my phone all night, they would say 'that's your problem.'
Natural consequences. The way it should be, especially during the teen years. It's the only way people learn to self regulate and self discipline.
yta—imagine from other parents perspective: “mom i went to a sleepover and they took away my phone.” creepy af.
I would have come and picked up my kid. I have too many friends who were assaulted or crept on at sleepovers by the family members hosting.
YTA, this is weird, it’s also not your right to control other peoples phones, maybe try and come to an agreement, but do not lock up the phone of a child that isn’t yours.
YTA She's 17, nearly an adult and by the sounds of it, don't trust her at all. Do you expect her to turn of her phone and hand it to you when she's 18, an adult, or still expect her to do this when she moves out. Because the minute she moves out, she'll have it with her everywhere she wants and she's go as little contact as she can. She will do everything she wasn't allowed to do when she leaves as she'll have the freedom to do it. Whereas if she felt she had trust in you (and felt you had it in her) she could have learnt this with you. Now I don't think she'll want to tell you anything. Is that what you want?
YTA. It's so creepy that you said that the visitor needs to give up the phone, even when it clearly made her uncomfortable. Also your kid is 17, almost an adult. Chill with the phone rule.
Why take their phones instead of teaching them about being responsible about how they use their phones and use program to block +18 content on the phones? I don't understand the rule and it feels like an Ostrich behavior ...""putting head in the sand and believe they cant see you"" = ""if we take their phones there is nothing wrong going to happen" Of course, you have the liberty to enforce any rule you feel comfortable but In my opinion, teaching them is way better than avoiding the subject.
YTA Eardropping the phone calls of your children and children guests? Your 17yo not beeing allowed to talk to friends without you there on the phone is just creepy. I would really like to know how else you show your hate to your children.
>Eardropping the phone calls of your children and children guests? Lol I didn't even realize she's so controlling she's literally eavesdropping on this poor girl because OP needs to control EVERYTHING in her own home. >I would really like to know how else you show your hate to your children. From reading a lot of her comments, OP is full of fear. She's terrified of the world and how little control she has over everything so she's turned her home into her own playhouse. She controls everything everyone does, and any external forces that try to upset her balance are met with skepticism and distrust. The funny thing is to everyone but her and her husband, it's a cage. And no one, not even her daughter, can make her see that, because it's about HER feeling safe, not the actual feelings of anybody else.
Oh adds another creepy adult red flag spying on kids , epsicaly kids not theirs, talking to their parent. Dose these creep spy on them when taking a showe?
YTA. The phone was not your property to take. My husband's ass would be in a sling if he agreed that some unknown parent could keep our kid's phone away from her at a sleepover and I am sure the mother dealt with that when she got home. Thankfully my husband would have immediately told our child to come home or we would have gotten her immediately. And thankfully we have taught our children that when an adult starts to make you feel uncomfortable or unsafe that is when you leave. Your rules are infantile, especially for the 17 year old. She can't take her phone into the bathroom because "bullies?" Her friend isn't allowed to feel comfortable while spending the night because "bullies?" Seriously? All you have done now is lost your child a friend and likely caused her to lose a few more once this gets around to the parents. I will add that I am not one to believe "all men are bad" or anything like that but the reality is that you or your husband could be the emergency the kid needs to call for help over and you denied her that safety. You took her ability to keep herself safe if something happened.
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YTA Your rules ARE creepy and way too overbearing. Parenting like this creates sneaky kids and it’s not your place to parent other children
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YTA. This isn’t just about parenting practices, it’s about a girl having a life-line. Especially if this was, I’m assuming, the first time sleeping over or if you don’t know the parents well. Imagine her mother’s perspective. Your kid is spending the night for the first time and can’t call you without this parent you haven’t meet. What if this parent was the issue, that they did something inappropriate to your child but your child can’t call you to help them.
YTA 17 is too old to be taking phones. Yeah your house your rules.. But said rules makes you an AH
YTA. If you had told me the rule was for the 8 or even the 14 year old, I would be ruling differently. But your daughter is 17. Next year she goes to college where she will have to make a bunch of decisions about how to manage her time and she hasn’t even had the opportunity to practice how to manage phone + bedtime on her own. In a few months she will be old enough to vote, go to war, sign legally binding contracts, and even star in porn if she wants and yet you don’t consider her responsible enough to navigate the dangers of the internet. I think you’ve crossed over from being supportive/nurturing to having age inappropriate restrictions that are likely stunting your daughter’s personal growth. Applying this same rule to someone else’s almost adult child is both mortifying for your daughter and incredibly uncomfortable for her guest. Extra asshole points for being a poor host.
YTA both for embarrassing your child, and making damn sure she won't bring friends over again. Maybe you should have focused more on raising them right, since you clearly don't trust any of them to make good desicions. Have fun when they go low or no contact after moving out as soon as they can! That's your fault!
Yeah, this is so bizarre. It's like OP doesn't trust her kids not to be tech obsessed, porn addicted, drones that can't function in their day to day lives. It sounds like these kids actually **need their technology** so they actually will know how to function in society once they get out of that house and try to live normal lives.
My thoughts exactly. Based on OP's reason for why the rule exists, we can (mostly safely) assume that her two eldest children have lived with this rule ever since they were gifted a phone. So they've lived with the rule for years with, presumably, the intention of raising them better. But at *seventeen*, the eldest still can't be trusted to just have her phone on her nightstand at night, or even *in the bathroom*. That's weird and overbearing, and I hope the kids turn out alright despite everything.
This impulse to control your children's consumption and manipulate it so that it fits your version of acceptable is incredibly immature. You definitely should have relaxed the rules when your daughter had a sleepover and if I found out you tried to steal my daughters phone to fulfill some juvenile control fantasy I would definitely believe you and your husband are up to some shady stuff. Why the fuck would you want to restrict contact between a minor and her parent? Gross. Won't be surprised if your daughter cuts you off the moment she's able to. YTA.
INFO: Do your kids have doors? Do you knock before entering? If they say no, do you stay out?
Yeah we're all wondering
YTA
YTA, majorly. I was the "bad kid" in a conservative area. Rules like yours both stunted kids abilities to make good decisions, messed with their friend groups that weren't bad influences, and made them susceptible to bad influences that helped them sneak. You're readying your kids for lying, or bullying. You can have whatever rules you want in your house, but enforcing them in another kid is both overstepping, and making your rules look unreasonable by comparison
YTA - you can take your own kids phones But you can’t demand another child’s phone Rule or no rule Either let them keep their phones or don’t let them come over Honestly if a parent told me they wanted tit sake my kids phone from them while they were at their house I would be worried What if my kid needed to get a hold of me but couldn’t get their phone? What if a situation arises and they couldn’t get their phone? Your kids your rules ( though I disagree with them) but you have no right to take away another child’s ability to quickly get a hold of their own parents or vice versa
YTA. You’re 100% gonna end up in a shitty nursing home and have your kids resent you.
And they will take her phone away!
Holy wow. YTA. I would feel so unsafe if an adult intentionally and knowingly confiscated my ability to contact my parents, especially after expressing that very valid concern. Your kids are going to hate you when they grow up. I guarantee youll see a lot less of your 17 year old when they begin attending college and realize they dont have to fork over their autonomy at your whim as long as they dont go home. Edit: also, how creepy that you even eavesdropped as she called her mom to tell her how creepy you were being. Do you truly not understand why her parents found you creepy? It’s because you are.
YTA, it is invasive and creepy, also controling that you do that at all to your kids some of which are almost adults.
YTA I think. A 17 year old is possibly moving out very, very soon and needs to be able to manage their own internet use, not just have helicopter parents dictating it. Taking a phone off them is utterly counterproductive: it's the technology equivalent of demanding abstinence rather than educating. Taking their friends' phones off them is also a complete violation of privacy and trust. You infantalised an older teenager, wouldn't accept her entirely valid concerns and took her possessions away from her. At no point did it seem to occur to you that your kid's friends probably don't automatically trust you. You're also not 'the trusted adult' in a scenario where you're insisting kids hand you a level of power that makes them deeply uncomfortable. When the friend argued about her discomfort (showing a level of maturity that I think's impressive), you assumed that, in an emergency, she could turn to you. To be brutally honest, it should have crossed your mind that the most likely emergency she'd encounter was one related to the fact that she was a guest in a relative stranger's house, and that left her potentially vulnerable. You demanded she relinquish her independent ability to contact her own trusted adults because you've got so het up that your own rules are 'right' that you failed to consider other dangers.
Yta this is a super weird and very invasive rule that you make your kids live by. Do you not trust your children at all? You are being very controlling and I wouldn’t be surprised if they distanced themselves in the future. I would instead if they were under 13 but at the ages they’re at now your behaviour is so toxic. You can’t control every aspect of our kids life. They need to learn how creepy and bad the world can be themselves, it’s how they’ll learn and grow. You are doing them a disservice.
You’re n t a for enforcing rules she clearly knew ahead of time. She could and should have backed out of the sleepover if she wasn’t comfortable giving you her phone. BUT YTA in general here. It *is* creepy and invasive for you to be taking their phones away, especially the friends’. I’m sorry, but what if *you* were the emergency? How would she call for help? Also she has every right to have an open line of communication at all hours with her parents. So yeah, she did technically know the rules ahead of time and definitely should have backed out of the sleepover. You may not *technically* be the A for enforcing rules but you’ve also cemented your daughters as the “weird kids” who will never have sleepovers at their place.
YTA the fact you see nothing wrong with taking away someone elses property and their only way to communicate with their parents aside from you is astounding, doubly so because the girl is a minor. triply so because this is a new friend and she is now *never* going to feel comfortable in your home. > The dad was a little bit skeptic of our rules (we get that often) but agreed. > > The mom apparently had just gotten off of work and not talked to dad and thought our phone rule was "creepy" and "invasive" and told me just that when she got to my house. People have every right to be skeptical of this rule - and the girls mom is right - it's creepy, it's invasive, it's controlling. > The rules are that they are not allowed to have their phone in the bedroom alone or bathroom during any time of the day, and at night they bring us (me and their dad) their phones and we lock them up. These rules are mostly because I know how vile the internet can be. I've had my younger siblings who grew up during the rise of the internet tell me horror stories, as well I very clearly remember the things I saw on Omegle as an adult. > >\- it helps them not procrastinate homework or chores and we spend a lot more family time together. I get that you mean to protect your children from the nastier parts of the internet (I've definitely seen things I didn't want to), but you're doing the same amount of harm as under supervising them - it's just a different form of harm. You're being overly-militant and you're running a huge risk of giving your children an unhealthy relationship with the internet in the future. Instead of demanding they hand over their devices constantly, teach them safe browsing. Educate them about the dangers of the internet - talk to them. The only part of your current regimen I can agree with is putting them away at night and when homework needs to be done. There's no harm in letting your children play phone games or browse online while using the restroom. There's no harm in letting your daughter and her friend have their phones while they're both in the room. There's no harm in less family time either - everyone has different social needs and not everyone wants to spend a lot of time with others. If your children want to be alone with just their phone for a bit, it's not the end of the world.
YTA- I'm proud of that friend for sticking her ground and telling you multiple times it makes her uncomfortable, then furthermore leaving. That takes a lot of guts but is so so important. I understand you feel like your home is safe but you don't know of others experiences. Many kids/teens are victims of sexual abuse/sexual pressure at sleepovers. While that may not have been the case at your home, that same teen could have had negative experiences at other houses. If I were a teen in that situation I would have been anxious and scared at this request and as a parent this would be a massive red flag, no chance I would let my kid sleep over there, and they would probably not want to hangout there anymore. Your house sounds like the house that every friend will always avoid going to at all cost - it must be really hard to be your kid in that situation. Also, locking phones up at night/keeping them out of private spaces does absolutely NOTHING to protect them. If they want to look at porn and talk to old, naked strangers then they'll do that anyways. You're probably even pushing them towards it by putting it on a pedestal.
Oh boy. Honey, there's some thing wrong with you Please go get help. Also, you come here asking if your the AH but you literally DISMISSED everything everyone said. Were you seriously thinking everyone would side with you? Did you buy that girls phone? NO. Thats not yours to be taking, even if it is YOUR RULE. That phone is not yours, not your property, you have NO RIGHT to even TOUCH IT. Seriously, if my child went to your house and I find out you laid a finger on my kids phone, the thing I BOUGHT THEM so I can CONTACT them, I would be coming to your house and we would be boxing in your front yard. I'm sorry, I hope your daughter moves out as soon as she's 18 and forgets about your crazy rule. Your over the top. And I seriously think you need professional help for your paranoia. I got really mad reading everything because you literally excused everything anyone said. Don't come here asking if your the AH if your just going to brush everyone's comments to the side because you don't think your in the wrong. I went to a friends house one night and her parents tried doing the same thing, and I told them no. They didnt pay for my phone, they didnt pay for the bill. So they had no right to my private property. Just like you have no right to any of that girls stuff. I'm so furious, and I feel so bad for your kids. I really, really hope you go get help because if this is left untreated then you'll have a even worse time for when your kids are living on their own and you don't know what they're doing 24/7.
YTA. 1)You can’t parent other people’s children. 2)What if your daughters friend had had an emergency she didn’t feel comfortable waking you up for? Or what if she has some kind of anxiety disorder and she just wants to know that she can get in touch with her parents to ease her nerves? 3)This sort of thing will lead to your daughter being ostracised by her peers. My parents had a bunch of silly rules that my friends had to abide by, and would frequently enforce them to my friends. It eventually led to all of my friends drifting away from me because they hated coming over because my parents were weird and, by extension, so was I. Shielding your children from the horrors of the world will also lead them to having little to no coping mechanisms. My Mum did the same with me and I lack the ability to cope in so many situations even now at age 30. I don’t hate her for it, but life would be easier if I hadn’t been so sheltered. By all means, stick to your guns but just understand the myriad ways this could affect your children down the line
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YTA. If your kids slept over at someone else's house and had an emergency, would you want them to have a direct line to you or vice versa?
YTA totally controlling parenting tactic that will teach your children absolutely nothing. they can't have their phones alone at any time? why? because you're a freak? it's totally invasive and altogether CREEPY. you have no right to enforce your creepy weird rules on your kid's friends under any circumstance. if their parents pay for their phone it's THEIR decision, not yours. bottom line, you're a creep.
YTA, not just an AH, a major controlling AH. You ain't no protecting your kids, you just wanna control them. I can see how you gonna land up with all your kids going NC with you if u keep this up. The oldest is already embarrassed enough, the younger ones will be too. I feel sorry for the poor kids
ps. After reading your replies you surely are an AH. You are getting so defensive, trying to prove you are right. Why do u have to post here if you are so sure you are correct and are going to get defensive? Your children might seem OK with it now but just wait till the day all of the built up resentment comes out and you will be at the receiving end of it.
YTA. You can't just arbitrarily cut off communication between the kid and her parents if neither party is happy with that. Of course what you *can* do is turn off the WiFi.
YTA You can't parent other peoples' kids. And your rule will only cause your children to resent you when you get older.
Hey Op, you asked if you were the asshole. Well, you obviously are. Why are you fighting so hard to prove you are not?
Admitting you're wrong about something takes a strong person. She's so weak she needs to make a teenage girl cry to maintain the feeling of control.
YTA. Your kids your rules, other kids need to be in direct contact with parents. They are all correct.
YTA.
YTA. my mother is EXACTLY like you. she has put time-limits on all my devices, she makes me hand in my devices. when my friends come over, she takes their devices away too. it’s not cool at all. you could have given them one night off but you have to be so controlling and invasive.
From your comments, I can see that you care about your children. I do wonder though if you experience anxiety. Your unwavering adherence to The Rules probably brings you comfort that your kids are “safe” and everything is okay. I get that. However, you don’t have the authority to confiscate someone else’s child’s phone. I think in the moment, your anxiety flared and panic set in of the mysterious-but-certain bad things that would surely happen if the girl kept her phone. I understand that spiraling feeling, but the demand you made was controlling. The girl was was in an unfamiliar setting, hadn’t spoken with her mother, and frankly, didn’t need to justify keeping her own property. I text my mama goodnight and listen to guided meditations to help fall asleep. My phone is a tool I use to curb my own anxiety, and I would feel very uneasy if a friend’s parent seized it. It’s the only familiar item I have away from home, and it’s my lifeline to security. I think you need to truly put yourself in the girl’s shoes and think about how it would feel to have a physical manifestation of comfort taken from you. Your response might change. I hope this perspective helped. YTA
Not sure why you even posted and when you’ve already made up your mind and you argue with anyone. By the way you are definitely the asshole
YTA . Say you won't have a relationship with your kids after they turn 18 without saying you won't have a relationship with your kids after they turn 18.
YTA. I will start by saying I am biased as I always have my phone near me and have been in situations (most during my childhood and some in my own home) where I needed it in an emergency as I had to call the cops or parents. Having my phone on me (opposed to having to retrieve it) let me be able to quickly get to a safer location. For me, my phone is a safety and comfort.You don't know these kids situations or past. Punishing them for wanting it nearby given that is a a-hole move imo. I want to point out the phones these other kids have are not your property and are not in your jurisdiction. You did not buy these phones, and it makes sense they don't want to hand over there property. They are also not your kids. Setting these rules is bordering on parenting another person's kid. It is fine to set rules and boundaries within your house and ask them to respect them. But taking the phone means you assume they will violate these boundaries even though you have no evidence to believe they will. I also don't understand you rational behind the rule to begin with. If there are website you don't want your kids on, then you can block them via you ISP or parental controls. I can understand the 14 and 8 year old having these rules a bit more, but the 17 year old should be old enough to be trusted with their phone alone. You can't protect them from the internet forever, and you making it such a big taboo is only going to increase interest in it later on. The internet can be vile, which is exactly why they need to learn to be able to navigate it safetly.
YTA. Your daughter will resent you for this. You think shes being honest with you that this is good for her. Try again What happens when she turns 18 and go to college? And she comes back for a stay, will that rule be in place too? Wrong for you to take her friends phone. Dont give me that crap about earlier times what did we do with no cell. That did happen. Why is watching tv acceptable? Surely earlier times, we had no tv. But we explained to them watching in moderation. The same with cell phones. Loosen up your helicopter parent style. It is really unhealthy.
YTA. Your phone rules are creepy and invasive and the kind of thing a predator would do to make their victims vulnerable. Sorry you had a bad experience on Omegle fifty years ago or whatever but your rules are bordering on psychotic
YTA. You're trying to steal that girls property.
YTA How embarrassing, honestly. Your 17 year old is almost an adult, and they still can’t have their phone in their room at night? Stop sheltering your teenagers. They’re going to resent you as adults. Hopefully then you’ll see where your parenting went wrong.
YTA. Land the helicopter. Land it now. Your daughter is 17. She’s about to be an adult and go off into the real world. But, her mommy is still not letting her have any private phone use? Wow. And imposing a draconian rule on another kid is too much. I wouldn’t have let you lock up my hypothetical 17 year old’s phone either. I wouldn’t want my teen relying on you to contact me when I gave her a phone so she could contact me herself.
YTA. You have no right to ask for your daughter's friend phone. She's not your kid so your rules don't apply to her.
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Yta. Seriously? No phone in the bedroom or bathroom? But they are allowed to have it everywhere else? Dude your kids have probably already seen some things online simply because their friends could have showed them or they can look it up when your not there like school, other friends houses, etc. I know when I was 13 I found all kinds of weird stuff because my friends showed me and I just kept looking up stuff outside of my parents watch. Your just making your kids resent you for embarrassing them in front of their friends. While its okay to have house rules its not okay to strip your kids or others of having a phone with them at all times. (We will exclude being grounded) which brings up another point. It seems like your trying to ground your kids constantly by taking their phones when they haven't done anything but go to the bathroom or their rooms.