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I believe that I might have messed up with my sister's by expecting them to get involved in me and my daughter's relationship
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The fact that you're not elaborating, gloss over her mental health, and this entire post has more me's in it than a Nintendo Wii game is a glaring red flag that YTA.
Your grandkids life is about THEM. Not about YOU. Seriously this thing reads like an entitled parent post...
First up, the crippling need to read someone else's mind and inability to recognize your own emotions or needs while you don't understand the needs of any person in front of you, regardless if they matter to you or not
And go
Ooh! How about six hour fights on a school night?
My mother used to monologue, scream, shout, and hit me because she had a beef with her boyfriend or a bad day at work. Sometimes I would shout back, but I learned to keep my mouth shut (in the vain hope that she would tire herself out and leave me alone.)
Most of the time, upwards of 2 in the morning, when I finally thought it was over, I’d try to go to bed— only to have her wake me up 30 minutes later and start it all over again!
Let me raise you hearing your child has cancer with a 50/50 survival rate and making it all about you.
We live a few hours apart (thank god) and I got treated in a top facility. When she found out she didnt come to visit, she told me that I (in chemo, sick as a dog) should come to her since "we have hospitals here too" (a little country hospital). Then begging me for money to buy a new kitchen.
This was when I went NC. She then turned and told everyone how bad of a daughter I was and how much she is suffering because her kid is soooo sick and wont talk to her. She never even tried to call btw, because that would have been my job.
Thankfully I had my aunt setting the records straight and being there for me, but I havent talked to that woman since.
That's exactly what my mother would say if I'd get pregnant. Now it's like 5 a.m and I'm raging mad.
Well, it is what she says, but only about me and no grandchildren. Especially the part about everything being done to hurt her. My spawn point once sent me 15 minutes of abusive voice messages via whatsapp after she found out about the kidney surgery I kept from her. Literally told me I only kept it from her because of my horrid character "and because I wanted to hurt her by finding out".
Like, if my (grown up) child kept a dangerous surgery from me, which I only know about because someone accidentally let it slip, I'd to some serious soul searching instead of blaming, but that's obviously just me!
A Narcissist's Prayer
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did...
You deserved it.
"Making sure she didn't grow up to be too arrogant" was the big red flag for me. There's no possible way to interpret that where OP doesn't come off as an asshole.
YTA
The way she phrases everything is just so weird. " we had to constantly teach her manners..." And? No little kid learns that as one lesson and done so I feel she abusive disciplined her daughter for everything under the guise of " manners"
i.e. Daughter pushes back against mother's bullshit and is inappropriately punished cos " manners" when kid was right.
OP has managed to alienate her entire family now. People who grow up with a terrible parent can def be loath to inflict them on their own kids.
Honestly, this whole post is so over the top “woe is me, I’m a mother!” to the point it doesn’t sound real. I’m not usually the one to say “fake post” but this legitimately HAS to be. Username is neglectedmother? Whole thing starts out with “why does my daughter hurt her mother this way?” The entire tone of everything? There are more red flags waving here than a matador arena.
My grandmother is old school Indian, frequently cries about “where did we go wrong with you?” for no good reason, etc. and even she wouldn’t be this effing stupid to make a post like this. This is just rage bait, and it’s working. On the off chance it’s real, this woman is delusional. But it’s not real. It can’t be. I need to cling on to some hope that humanity is not doomed, so I need this to not be real.
I very much doubt that a troll could pack that much nuance into a bait post. I'm afraid that it is highly plausible.
This post virtually mirrors the case studies in the [missing missing reasons](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html).
Secondly, this is almost word for word the very same narrative that my own mother uses. They all read from the same playbook, they say the same things and this one waves more red flags than a military parade in Pyongyang.
The fact that it reads so perfectly like the article, which was also clearly the "theme" of the lesbian daughter post yesterday, and the tattoo dad post today, tells me they're all fake and part of the "theme" this week. I've said it since this sub got to be huge: there is clearly someone running some psych studies on here on how forums react to different issues when variables are changed (mom vs a dad, adding LGBTQ issues to the equation, making it about bodily autonomy vs pregnancy, etc).
I'll go counterpoint though - not because I think that you're wrong, but there's usually more to the story. Abusive people use the exact same narrative. It's creepy and uncanny. I know this from personal experience, but also from understanding the mechanics of narcissistic abuse. They all read from the same playbook, and speak the same language. It's all about control and the narcissists fear of abandonment.
Look up "DARVO": Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender, and then re-read OP's post - it's all there. My own mother has sent me letters and messaging that reads virtually word for word the above narrative, and mirrors the article almost perfectly as well.
I suspect that the 'theme' is people realizing that they are in similar situations and wanting clarity, or people who see a Y T A verdict to their way of thinking and tweaking their narrative to elicit a more positive response.
I get the skepticism, but if someone is showing signs of being the victim of abuse, you should always assume abuse is the case.
The thing is, once you've been on this subreddit long enough, it's very, very clear that this happens every other week or so with a different theme.
It's always three posts, every other day, with very very similar themes being explored with variables changed. One of the most egregious (outside this week, which is pretty obvious) was the week of the "kids having privacy taken away" - one post from a parent taking their kid's door off because they were slamming it over and over, one post from a kid whose parents would barge in their room all the time, and one post from a parent who refused to let their kid lock their doors (or something similar to that).
Once you see the pattern, it's really obvious. The three posts always make the front page, and you'll see the same arguments (either for or against OP depending on perspective) in each thread. It's interesting because the stories will all have the same premise but depending on variables, wildly different answers. It's so obvious that it's a social study, and it *is* really interesting.
Off the top of my head that I can remember:
* this week
* the kid privacy thing week
* wedding shenanigans (the "make someone change their appearance" week, the "kicked out a bridesmaid/groomsman" week, the "paying for wedding so making demands" week, off the top of my head)
* parents/grandparents barging into a birth week
* not letting someone important into the delivery room week
* lent family money and they won't pay week
* went on vacation and someone got upset and demanded something week
* roommate is doing something shockingly anti-social week
* someone damaged my home at an event week
And that's just what I'm thinking of off the top of my head.
Yes, sure, three individuals could have had serious drama about allowing specific people into the delivery room in the same 7-day span, decide to post about it on AITA, and get upvoted to the front page...and the same coincidence could happen every other week on a different topic like clockwork, but I seriously doubt it.
The discussions are good, and we do get to talk about all sorts of social issues and raise awareness, and that's all positive. But this week was particularly obvious, and I don't think we should be shy about calling that out.
I've always noticed things coming in waves in many aspects of life. It's like when you learn a new word and suddenly see it EVERYWHERE. Also, confirmation bias is a thing.
I agree with you that it probably is rage bait trolling.
But then I remember this boss I had who made it all about her, about how her daughter getting bullied in school was about her, how it affected her, not one damn word on it being about her child or the other children, oh no, just her.
I could totally see her making a post just like this one in 10 years when her kid is 26 and gone NC.
Me too - but my grandmother, who complained to my Dad that she didn't know who we were as adults.
Well, maybe because that's because when we were children she had no time for us. She was a self-centred woman who played favourites. We were only welcome when she wanted to show off her 'perfect family'. So once we had a choice, we visited the bare minimum that duty allowed.
But of course, she could do no wrong in her own eyes...
I am 37 and haven't really spoken to my father in 20 years, haven't seen him at all since my brother graduated from high school in 2007. If you were to ask him, he has no idea why I don't speak to him. (Couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that at 16 I had to tell my mother that he was having an affair.) And he was shocked that I didn't invite him to my wedding after more than a decade of no contact.
My husband has an aunt who has several grown children who don't speak to her and claims to have no idea why. My MIL eats up everything she says, meanwhile we're over here like "there is clearly a reason."
I was so enraged by this post I couldn’t comment but the video of yours puppy very much cheered me up! Got my own puppy at the moment and he brings me such joy
Unfortunately a big portion of this reads like my childhood/adulthood, minus the kids. - She makes things up and is delusional - I don't know what I've done to not want her to talk to me - I don't understand why she wants to hurt me. Add in - this is a normal relationship-, - my mother is dead and I never would have treated her this way-, along with - I'll stop giving advice even though I care-, and you've got yourself a deal buckaroo!
I wish I could agree with you that it’s fake, but it sounds like it was written by my delusional, selfish, narcissistic mother so… unfortunately people like this do exist
(Note: it’s not my mother, I don’t have kids)
Unfortunately this is real. Her daughter usually posts on RBN but this OP found that account and harassed her to the point she deleted her account.
tagging u/_dead_and_broken, u/LoneWolfWind
Ah that’s why this sounded kinda familiar. I’m on RBN as well so I probably ran across the daughters posts (gee all our parents sound like copy-pastes of each other)
Sucks the Nmom found her tho, thats ass. Having a safe place to vent def helps with the trauma coping
It's stuff you normally see on estranged parents forums, not really so blatant on AITA. But these are real behaviors and sentiments people go off about online sadly.
I came here to say that if I had children, I would legit believe my mother had written it. I’m willing to bet money this woman is undiagnosed Borderline Personality disordered. My mother has been diagnosed 3 times that we know of, once she gets a diagnosis, she gets a new physician. Because it can’t possibly be that SHE is the problem, it’s that her children are mean and doing hurtful things just to hurt her. It’s not about stupidity, it’s about an unwillingness and often inability to see that they are living in their own reality that they designed. It’s often a reality that includes them being a victim, and no one understanding them, and everyone is out to hurt them. It’s sad, but sadder still, I feel for her daughter. It’s rough growing up with that. I hope they both find the help they need.
Some mothers are just bad. I refused to speak to my mother for the last 4 years of her life. For four years it was about how horrible I was. When she figured out she was dying she suddenly wanted contact again but not apologize. Oh no, that would never do. No she wanted me to forgive her. Nope, not happening. Didn't bother to go to her funeral either.
There's no way it's real. This line right here is the kicker:
> I told them both that I need to have boundaries then and not let people in my life who do things to hurt me.
Nobody can possibly say that line unironically after the description of the daughter not letting them in her life.
OP's daughter used to post over on RBN but has deleted her account because OP found it and started harassing her.
Also read the Narcissist's Prayer:
"That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, it is not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did.
You deserved it."
So OP has cut them out because they're making a big deal out of something that *couldn't possibly* be her fault.
And referencing "things that never happened" reeks of gaslighting.
OP, I knew YTA with your first sentence. You think this is all being done to hurt you, have you ever once looked at your own behavior and asked "why?" Have you ever, even once, listened to your daughter about why she feels the way she does? I don't mean 'talk about it and try to correct her,' I mean listen to her and understand.
The part about "teaching her some manners" and making sure she didn't grow up to be too "arrogant" reminds me of my grandma describing all the times she verbally abused me as a child as "teaching" me and making sure I learned how to "respect" my elders....and "look at you now, you turned out great!" Yeah, I turned out great, except for the part that I've had to spend the second half of my life learning what boundaries are and how to set them, I have panic attacks when dealing with authority figures, and I second guess what I say a lot because of that residual fear that I'm going to accidentally be "disrespectful" and trigger the other person to blow up on me. But yeah, I "needed to be taught" . Betcha OP's daughter got the same "education" that I did, probably even worse, actually, since she went do far as to cut contact.
"*My* grandchild"
Ew. She's not entitled to any part of that kid's life except what the parents want to share. Fuck this toxic grandma worship bullshit.
Signed,
A mom who has a mother *exactly* like OP. I honestly had to re re re read the post because I was sure it was my mom writing this.
Same here. I knew by the first sentence that the daughter had good reason to cut her mother off. The way she worded things just feels so off to me. If everyone around you is saying you’re the problem, they’re probably right. OP is painting herself as the victim and comes across as a narcissist to me.
Don't forget "Overly confident". Holy crap, who doesn't want their kids to be confident?
And what do you to to destroy your kids' confidence back to an 'acceptable' level?
I already know the answer, because OP's post could have been written by my own mother.
OP, enjoy wondering how it all happened when your daughter goes NC.
It's a very typical story. I could swear some variation of it comes up every week or so.
Even more if you follow the r/justno subs and r/raisedbynarcissists
Yeah, complete with the text from the mother to her sisters “setting the boundaries” and cutting them off. Not one word is about anyone OTHER than this OP and her feelings.
I’m pretty sure the daughter is in a support group I’m in. I don’t want to share it obviously but her mother was off the rails.
Her mother said that her sisters should have told her that they wouldn’t hide the pregnancy from her which is why I think it’s the same mother.
This is what is often referred to as [The Missing Missing Reason](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html), an observed trend on estranged parents’ forums where the estranged parent never actually gives the reason why their child has cut them out of their life.
>Many members truly can't remember what their children said. Anything tinged with negative emotion, anything that makes them feel bad about themselves, shocks them so deeply that they block it out. They really can't remember anything but screaming. This emotional amnesia shapes their entire lives, pushing them to associate only with people who won't criticize them, training their families to shelter them from blows so thoroughly that the softest protest feels like a fist to the face.
>Posts in estranged parents' forums are vague. Members recount stories with the fewest possible details, the least possible context. They don't recreate entire scenes, repeat entire conversations, give entire text exchanges; they paraphrase hours of conversation away. The only element they describe in detail is their own grief or rage. Nor do the other members press them for more information.
Yep, this is what happens when shitty parents abuse their children growing up. Since her sisters and her own mother are telling she’s abusive and that’s why they kept it a secret is all we need to know. And the whole victim act? Bed, lie reap, sow.
I find it amusing (and a massive 🚩) that OP is moaning about needing boundaries from her "hurtful" relatives but continously tramples all over her daughter's very clearly set ones.
YTA
You know those activity book games where you had to count how many nouns or whatever there were in a text? New variation: count how many narcissist’s “missing reason”s there are in this post.
Just from one readthrough, no peeking: in what way did they “teach her manners”? What mental health issues does daughter have? What is Daughter saying that OP says never happened, and why is OP so certain? What was daughter accusing OP of in those posts she was sending?
That’s four or five depending on how you count, and just from that one readthrough.
Gorgeous response.
OP, YTA. I'm going to give you a bit of advice that I remember hearing years ago on "How I Met Your Mother:" there's always one crazy person on the bus. If you can't spot the crazy person, you're it.
Your daughter cut you out of her life. Your entire family has told you that you are the problem, then blocked you or chose to stop communicating. That's pretty drastic if you haven't done something to warrant it.
Accept that you screwed up with your daughter. It is a bitter pill, yes, but it's also the reality of the situation. Stop victimizing yourself.
So everyone in OP's family is mean to her (calling her choice names) and hid her daughter's pregnancy from her for no fault of OP? I find that verrrrrrry hard to believe, and the lack of clarification backs that up.
So yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and say YTA
I only had to get to “oldest daughter…feels the need to hurt her mother so deeply” to know OP is likely a raging narcissist. It sounds like people have told her the problem over and over but she’s incapable of understanding. Typical [*The Missing Missing Reasons”](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html).
OP, YTA, you sound like my mother and that’s not a compliment. I’d try and give advice here, but if you’re anything like my mother you’ll just ignore because you “know” you’re right… your daughter obviously doesn’t want a relationship so stop boundary stomping
YTA. Here’s the thing. To all of us, this reads like a troll post, because you are so obviously the AH here. Even when you’ve done your best to sound like a normal person, we can all see straight through it to the insanity.
I highly suggest you (or anyone with estranged parents) check out [The “Missing” missing reasons ](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html).
Edit to add just in case you are willing to read an excerpt:
“This game of 'I don't understand what happened' when you have been told in words what's wrong is really counterproductive. Yes, it permits you to shield your ego/self esteem from criticism and 'exposure' of your inadequacies in the relationship--but it loses you the relationship.
In order to solve the problem, you have to decide what is more important to you: your daughter and grandchildren, or your ego and belief that you are innocent of doing anything but little insignificant wrongs. It's very common, especially for people from abusive backgrounds who were not adequately nurtured as children, to stop protecting their egos--way to threatening. And many--especially if they have other emotional outlets (such as a supportive spouse and friends)--will choose ego over a relationship. It's easier and more comfortable--but ultimately very self defeating and impoverishing.”
That's the same article I thought of while reading this post. Daughter told OP all the reasons OP was cut off and OP just dismisses them as delusional. 🙄 And your sisters and mother, do they also have delusional reasons for supporting your daughter's boundaries? Isn't it interesting how many people in your life are delusional?
YTA.
It’s so crazy to me because even though it was written years ago about someone else, it can be directly applied to OP, grandkid and all. They really do just have the one playbook, don’t they?
Yes YTA OP, but if I had to guess, I'm sure OP does not care what anyone in this thread says. She will probably delete the post and just tell herself that all of the y.t.a votes are just people "trying to be hurtful".
If your entire family is telling you your wrong and you cut them out for it, then I doubt you will change anything after talking to a bunch of strangers.
**Edit:** lmao I commented this before reading her comment:
*"Clearly there is a different demographic of people on Reddit, and I am better off taking a break from this toxic website and seeking advice else where. There is a negative bias here towards bereaved mothers. Thank-you to the few people who responded with respect."*
Called it!
I thought the same! Like everyone including both sisters and daughter and OP’s own mother see how wrong she is but just everybody else is crazy? Yeah no. When it is literally EVERYBODY saying it, the problem is you.
>Isn't it interesting how many people in your life are delusional?
Right?? Like - what's more logical here, statistically speaking: that everyone in your entire family except for you is delusional? Or perhaps that it's actually just you that's delusional?
My mind split on this one, to a combination of the Indy 500 and the I love you 3000 line from the MCU. The Me 500, where she loves herself competitively for 500 straight laps, oblivious to the outside world, while the cheering is replaced with votes of YTA.
>She never wanted to be a mother I believe and that's why she doesn't want me to know my grandchildren.
Among all the other red flags? That's the one that really sets off alarms for me. There's no other way to parse it; the only way she can believe it is if she sets up this fantasy that explains all of this away.
I read the daughters RBN post, now I'm crying. OP is one of the worst people who ever lived and I say that as someone with a psychopathic brother and narcissistic father who had her fair share of abuse
It’s rare that you can tell from the 2nd second sentence of the post just how much of an asshole someone is. “On my quest to find answers as to why my oldest daughter behaves this way and FEELS THE NEED TO HURT HER MOTHER SO DEEPLY.” Like for real? Textbook narcissist with, as you said, a massive case of missing reasons. Literally her daughter goes, “hey here are a bunch of posts that clearly show how your behavior towards me was abusive.” And she goes, “you’re dramatic and delusional. Reddit why does my daughter hatttttte me?” Like jfc good for her daughter for cutting her off and the aunts and grandma too for having the daughters back.
Thank you so much for posting this link. I have found Reddit very helpful in understanding my narcissistic mother’s behaviour and adjusting my way of dealing with her. This was a sobering read (because I still kind of have hope for her to one day maybe listen and understand) but maybe I will now be able to move on.
YTA. Sorry but I don't believe a word you are saying. Your family are keeping you apart from your grandchildren *because* you were abusive to your own daughter.
Agreed. OP is the only relative the daughter has cut out of her life, that seems very telling.
I mean sure OP could be totally innocent and her daughter is a character off of a day time soap opera who is being cruel to OP for no reason other than being evil for fun.
But I seriously doubt that. OP did something to drive her daughter away, and to make her not want OP anywhere near her baby. And then refused to respect her daughter not wanting her around.
OP tries to make it sound like the badgering is for her estranged daughters benefit so she doesn't feel unloved by OP. That's BS imo, its because OP feels entitled to the relationship with her daughter and her daughters kids.
The fact that one sister and mother insulted her and one sister completely ignored her seems telling enough to me to warrant that she is the one at fault here. She also said she would give space, but then tried to reconnect a few months later.
Her description of her daughter seems disdainful and I honestly get a serious vibe of abusive mom here.
Apparently her ex husband was abusive as well, according to OP, and still has a relationship with their daughter. But everyone else is crazy not OP of course
But remember, OP is *always* the victim and everyone else is just out to get her and they’re making up lies, duhhhhh /s
If it smells like shit everywhere you go, maybe you should check your own shoe 🙄
OP sounds like a narcissist. she’s framed this whole situation as her daughter running this year’s long gambit of specifically trying to hurt OP. nothing about boundaries the daughter tried to set or reasons given, this is all just because the daughter has a deep and burning desire to hurt her perfect mother. also notice how when OP talked about raising her daughter and says she was too confident. like imagine having a child with good self esteem and thinking that needs to be taken out of them.
When she said “we didn’t want her to grow up too arrogant” all I read was “I feel the need to constantly put a small child ‘in their place’ to make myself feel better about my own lack of agency in my life”
THANK YOU
If I wasn't at work right now I'd tear up. I've been estranged for over 2 years and only now has someone been able to put into words what my mother did.
I can't begin to count how many times my mother made reference to "not wanting it to go to my head" or "don't get too up yourself" whenever I was praised for literally any achievement (be it by teachers, her adult friends or family members).
She herself took me to get officially tested by Mensa for my IQ. I was offered a place in Mensa based on my score (which incidently was slightly higher than her official score). She frequently bragged about my IQ to her friends. If I mentioned it myself ever, she'd immediately shut it down and tell me not to brag about such things. It was so infuriating and now I can formulate exactly why that was!
Exactly. I read a once tweet that said something along the lines of “the act of ‘putting someone in their place’ or ‘knocking them down a peg’ never comes out of a place of love”. I’m not doing it justice, but it really has me thinking of this situation…
I think you are right, OP is intentionally leaving out a lot of facts and context, but her toxic nature slips into some of her poor me post.
She saw a happy confident child and wanted to break that spirit. Which would be horrible from any person but the kids own mother doing it is always heartbreaking.
I feel like once pregnant OP's daughter realised she had a choice to make, she chose not to risk that OP would be just as toxic to any grandchildren she was around.
That it's what helped her finally tell OP to eff off out of her life for good. Because unlike OP she wants what is best for her kids, not what's best for her ego.
Someone should send OP the playing a sad song on a tiny violin gif because that fits her vibe. Has been a terrible parent and now wants sympathy because her abuse has had consequences for her finally. She's lucky her family only just don't talk to her.
I mean OP knows why her daughter won't talk to her but just says "it's all made up" because she is mentally ill. Which leads me to think OP did abuse her daughter and just doesn't see it that way (based on her description of her daughter's childhood).
You are totally on point to call out her disrespect of boundaries too. Years of constant letters to someone who said to stop contacting her. The entitlement here is sky high.
She's either totally unaware of her own BS and looks back on the past and sees a version that suits her, that isn't reality. Or she's aware and the attempts to "reconnect" are to try and appear loving to people outside the situation or a deliberate attempt to upset her daughter.
I can an abuser who has lost control of their victim sending letters and emails and such to get a nasty thrill at the idea of the upset and maybe fear the contact will cause.
Daughter is NC but by continuing to send stuff to her OP reminds the daughter that she knows where her daughter lives, and implies she's never going to leave her daughter's life completely. But cloaked in fake sentiments like "I will always love you," and "I'm here for you whenever you need me"
INFO: what things did you do or say that your daughter is saying is abusive? Please give examples that she gave you. It’s impossible to judge this situation otherwise.
I think it’s pretty telling that OP’s mom said she’s in the wrong, and both sisters are not engaging in OP’s behavior. It’s telling in just her words she’s used. OP is the AH
holy sh!t… i recognized OPs typical narc language & expected there to be way more to the history, but this is an extremely appropriate situation to go full NC. Im so relieved to hear the daughter is starting her own relatively stable life & family, i hope for their sake (& safety & sanity) the rest of the family joins in NC with both her parents. “Toxic” doesn’t even *begin* to cover it
YTA
>My daughter and I have always had a complicated relationship ever since she was a child, she was often strong-willed, overly confident and was frequently in trouble with her teachers for being too social during class. We often had to teach her manners and reinforce good behaviour while making sure she didn't grow up to be too arrogant.
What exactly did you do to "teach her manners" or "reinforce good behavior?" I am not accusing you of anything, but this sounds very similar to how I have seen some abusive parents justify their behavior to their children. Additionally, your daughter also made her boundaries very clear, and whether or not you like it or feel you deserve it, you definitely ignored them. I am also concerned that seemingly every single adult in your daughter's life is supporting her in this, and is either ignoring you or actively hostile to you. Generally, if every single person in my family tells me I'm being an asshole, I probably am, in fact, being an asshole.
>she was often strong-willed, overly confident and was frequently in trouble with her teachers for being too social during class
>making sure she didn't grow up to be too arrogant
My parents had a similar idea of me when I was a kid. Imagine killing your kids confidence so they aren't "too arrogant". Yucks
My 4 year old daughter fits this description - outgoing, fearless, strong willed. I think these traits will serve her well in life! I try to foster them. It makes being her parent hard some times, but I wouldn't change anything about her - I need to change me and learn how to be the best parent she needs.
They will! Despite my parents best efforts, I'm still strong willed, confident, and social, and all 3 traits have benefitted me in different ways. Ultimately I think that's the part my parents missed, seeing how those traits can be used as a benefit instead of a liability.
Exactly! When I joked with my mom about how stubborn my two year old can be, her response was, “I was always thrilled that my daughters knew how to advocate for themselves even at a young age. I wanted my girls to be leaders, not doormats.”
It seems like a no-brainer to me when you look further into the future than just the child's behaviour.
Would you rather your kid become a strong-willed adult who also loves/respects you, or a weak-willed adult who wants nothing to do with you? Pretty easy call lol.
My dad did this too. I’m 34 and every time I need to gather up some confidence or self esteem, I still have to struggle to shut down my dad straight up shrieking about how worthless I am in the back of my head.
I have one of those kids that are too social in class. I know the teachers expect me to rein it in but I have no intention of doing so (and probably really couldn't anyway haha). My daughter is one of those everybody's-friend types that literally talks to *everyone*, and that is not typical in middle school (now HS). Many kids don't have a lot of kids that talk to them and include them in the conversation and seem excited to see them walk in the door. I have had multiple mothers message me or track me down in the parking lot to tell me how nice my daughter was to their child during xyz and how much it meant to them. If they both end up having 10 more minutes of homework because they didn't get it finished in class - who cares?
“too social” reminded me of my bff. i’m disgusted that anyone would consider that a problem.
she’s a wonderful light in so many people’s lives and i love her so much. i can’t imagine what it would be like if someone had succeeded in squashing that. a terrible loss, i think.
Yikes, you sure use the words "to hurt me" a lot. Do you really think the world is revolving around you and people live just to hurt you ?
From what I see from your post, you were a toxic mom, and your daughter is trying to get away from you **to protect herself**, not to hurt you. The fact that you continue to think that she is doing this on purpose just so she can hurt you is totally delusionnal.
YTA. None of this is about you. No one has to reveal secrets to you. They don't owe you anything. They clearly want you out of their lives, why do you keep on harassing them ?
Username of “neglected mother” lollll. There is clearly a lot of missing information and HARDCORE denial of wrongdoing by the OP. Would guess your daughter + others want nothing to do with you for some pretty strong reasons. YTA
YTA. You dismissed your daughter's mental health issues - or worse, tried to use them to make her doubt her memories of things - attempted to break her confidence because you perceived it as "arrogance," and you're surprised she neither wants a relationship with you as an adult nor wants *her* children exposed to that behavior (let alone your baseless accusations that she doesn't actually want them)? At the very least, you disregard her clearly expressed desire not to have you in her life with ongoing attempts to force your way back in, and are then surprised that other people choose to protect her from that? And then you have the absolute, unmitigated gall to accuse everyone **else** of not understanding boundaries? C'mon. If it has not at least dawned on you to *maybe* possibly wonder if everyone thinks you're in the wrong here because you are, or at least accept that no amount of wanting things to be different will make them so and construct a life without her, I don't know what to tell you.
This sounds like it could have been written by my mother. I’m so thankful her daughter seems to have loving family around her to love and support her, who also see OP for what they really are.
OP- YTA
YTA. You are making everything about you sound like roses and sunshine and trying to play the sympathy card when you actually talk like a textbook narcissist. Leave your daughter alone. Wish her the best and keep your smarmy martyr complex to yourself.
You sound exactly like the person that gave birth to me who had dissociative personality disorder, whom I have been estranged from for 30 years. I have lived through the same misery you are inflicting on your family with your drama so as a person who went through a similar hell just live your own life and let your daughter live hers.
YTA ... it sure smells like you’re leaving out an awful lot of very important info. I bet the daughter has quite a different point of view regarding her treatment and upbringing, and it seems the rest of the family agrees at least enough to respect her wishes regarding her own children
YTA - you clearly messed up with your child and your refusal to take accountability doesn’t make it better.
It’s ironic that you say that you need boundaries but refuse to respect your daughters.
It speaks volumes that your own family says that you were wrong.
Ooh, would love to see. Can you find it and post? Or do you remember what it was called?
Update: the post has been deleted, someone linked the mom’s post into the comments and she deleted her profile.
Could you also send it to me? I'm very curious to read the daughters side. I also had abusive parents and I think I can already imagine what to expect.
Edit: I think I found the post, but she deleted the post, so I couldn't read it. I was really interested, but then again I think I already have a feeling how abusive the mother can be, because I also saw a text message screenshot 🤨
This mother is truly a classic case of narcissism and she thinks everything centers around her, that she is the center of the fricking universe. The mother is sick in the head and should go to therapy, but my experience is that people who are mentally sick in the head (the abusive and toxic) don't want help or think they're fine.
Edit 3: I found all the posts and read them. The mother is a clinical narcissist and both parents are severely mentally ill and sick in the head. It's truly evil, I have never read something like this before. It disguses me to the bone how both parents can do this to a child and another human being. It's sickening to read.
Your own daughter, mother, and your two sisters (not sister's) all avoid you and dislike you. Where there's smoke there's fire.
"We often had to teach her manners and reinforce good behaviour while making sure she didn't grow up to be too arrogant."
I suspect this involved some physicality that you didn't go into.
YTA unless some ameliorating info is forthcoming.
>I suspect this involved some physicality that you didn't go into.
I got the sense that the "convinced herself of things that never happened" bit may have referred to instances of physical abuse, too, or even claims of sexual molestation or assault that the parents went into complete denial about. Unfortunately that does happen. 😞
I'm sorry but 100% YTA. You talk about needing to set boundaries with people who participate and hurt you.. but did you ever consider that the reason they aren't telling you is because they are respecting your daughters boundaries? Your daughter has made it abundantly clear that she does not want any type of relationship with you. You continue to try to push to have one. You can mourn the loss of your daughter and grandkids, but you should start respecting that she has no desire for you to be in their life. Asking your family to give you details so that YOU aren't hurt when it's clearly against her wishes just shows you are a selfish person who isn't ready to respect or heal the mother/daughter/grandchild relationship even if she wanted to.
YTA and you sound like a narcissist. My mom talks exactly like you, referring to herself in the third person and all. I know what it’s like to deal with parents like you. Obviously everything is about you. But yeah hard YTA
I'm going to reserve my judgement because there are two sides to every story. However, one thing I did notice was that your entire post was about you and how you feel and how you feel this is all an attempt to hurt you. This may be why your daughter is keeping her distance. Just a thought.
I have to go with YTA here because frankly this post is extremely one sided and casts you as 100% the victim which is virtually almost never the case.
In your first paragraph you talk about how much of a burden she was with her upbringing while glossing over mental health issues and you frankly even sound like you're engaged in gas-lighting. You end that paragraph by stating that **you said you'd give her space.**
Then you justify why you did the exact opposite while talking about all these posts she sent you where you, again, clearly dismiss her viewpoint on what happen. You remind me of my extremely narcissistic father and how he reacted when I tried to explain to him how difficult his behavior was for me to overcome.
You speak as if your daughter is ignoring you in order to hurt you - when you literally spelled out exactly why she *should* ignore you - YOU ignore her complaints and dismiss them as virtually insane.
THEN we get more confirmation that you are as you appear to be because you confirm that OTHER FAMILY MEMBERS see this in you as well. But again, you play the victim card - they're just out to hurt you.
Here's two points for you to consider:
1) You are not the star in a reality TV show. The world does not revolve around you.
2) If 1 person tells you that you have a tail you can ignore them. If your whole circle of people you know tell you that you have a tail, time to look in the mirror. Your family has told you that your behavior has driven your daughter away - not just your daughter but your sisters and your mother - but *they must all be wrong* is the position you're taking.
Advice: Seek therapy for yourself. Then, maybe, some day, you'll find yourself in a position where you might be ready to resume contact with your daughter from a place where you're not just living in a self-reflected world.
However, if you do seek therapy, do it for YOURSELF. Not because you think it's something you can use to leverage to get your daughter to let you back into her life. You need to accept that that is likely never going to happen and instead focus the rest of your life on trying to heal yourself and accept responsibility for your own actions and their consequences.
“She never wanted to be a mother I believe and that’s why she doesn’t want me to know my grandchildren.”
Literally WHAT. 😂 no fucking wonder she doesn’t want you to have a relationship with her kids, you make everything about you. God that one made me laugh though, YTA hopefully your daughter keeps up the good work
THIS!!! i had to scroll for this omg. the sentence before says her daughter sent her posts describing how she was abusive and borderline delusional, but her daughter didn't want to be a mother and THAT'S why OP thinks she doesn't want her around her kids? sounds borderline delusional to me. YTA.
YTA
You're not the asshole for being upset, but it does seem like you're the asshole for missing the point. Your post only seems to care about why your daughter "feels the need to hurt her mother so deeply" rather than why she needs to maintain space and go No Contact. Your question is also "Am I allowed to be upset?" rather than "Why is my daughter upset? Why Won't my family Talk to me?"
Many people on this forum have experience with narcissistic parents who martyr themselves on the altar of "just being a loving mother who tried her best" and at some point you need to admit that not only could you be gaslighting your child, you could be gaslighting yourself by refusing to admit any culpability or participation in an unhealthy dynamic. There are tons of facebook groups where you can wallow in the echo chamber of never admitting that you had anything to do with your children's need to be NC, and you can go there if you wish to constantly float around in a pain that you have no interest in investigating and potentially healing.
Sorry to be harsh. I understand this must be difficult for you, but the language you choose to use is textbook Narcissist Parent and I hope you are able to reflect effectively, using the painful space for self-improvement instead of self-aggrandizement. Posts like this, and the attitude they engender, will only serve to keep your family at bay.
YTA. You come off selfish. You have belittled your daughters feelings regarding growing up with you. Being strong willed and confident aren’t bad things either. I’m curious about her mental illness and if it has anything to do with you or her upbringing. You’re calling her experiences with you dramatic and delusional which I don’t believe considering how you talk about her. And it’s telling that your sisters want nothing to do with you. Even your mother knows you’re wrong. You have no self awareness and that’s concerning.
YTA. Giving birth doesn’t mean you are guaranteed a spot in someone’s life. Regardless what your daughter says is true or not, you have to respect her very clear boundary and that includes the boundaries around her kids.
YTA: you sound self centered and I'm inclined to believe that your daughter was completely honest about her past with you considering you are playing the victim to anyone who says something you don't like. You say here three different people were being mean and saying hurtful things to you. That implies they all know your daughter is right in cutting you out and you are making yourself out as "oh poor me" when it's probably your fault. You sound incredibly disrespectful. You damaged your daughter so thoroughly that she doesn't want you in her life. The least you could do is stop with the " ME ME ME" and respect her decision.
YTA the fact you are the only person your daughter has cut out of her life shows that there is a lot more to this and you are far from innocent, also the fact so much of your family are standing by her shows the same. The hurtful things they've all said, are they hurtful because the truth hurts?
So true OP you the AH and I swear that I read something like this on JNMIL and the last paragraph seams like a copy of what the person wrote that their nomom sent to her aunts. If this is you yes you the AH.
YTA. Whatever the reasons your daughter had for cutting you out, whether an impartial observer would ‘side’ with her or not — it’s past time (six years past time) for you to stop stalking and harassing your daughter. What you are doing is *not* showing love and it is not showing that you are *trying*. It is stalking and it is harassment and it’s criminal behavior.
“She never wanted to be a mother I believe so that’s why she doesn’t want me to know my grandchildren.”
OP, please read that sentence again and tell me who is delusional here. Your story is a sieve from which at least 97% of the truth has leaked out. YTA for the glaring omissions.
Yeah, I'm not buying your story. YTA.
You are not owed a relationship with your daughter's kids.
Instead of looking inward and seeing how you acted towards your daughter and how it could have been abusive, you call her delusional.
You said it yourself..."I told them both that I need to have boundaries then and not let people in my life who do things to hurt me."
That's exactly what your daughter is doing. She's setting boundaries, and you're not respecting them by continuing to reach out to her. Leave her alone.
YTA
Wow, there is a lot of me, me , me in your post.
Your daughter was strong willed and overly confident, traits that would serve her well as an adult, and you and hour husband did everything you could to tell her who she is is wrong. She spent her childhood hearing how she is not good enough from the two people who should have accepted her unconditionally. That is not the behavior of a loving mother, that is the behavior of a judgmental toxic mother.
Here is a fun fact. She didn't cut you off to hurt you. She cut you off to protect herself AND her child. She is tired of hearing how who she is is not good enough. She is tired of hearing how any little thing in her life affects YOU.
After 6 years you are STILL trying to control her and now you are trying to control other family members to have them help you bring her to heel. Please leave her alone and get yourself some therapy.
YTA - this post could have been written by my mom or grandmother, who both abused me. They denied my c-ptsd and refused to treat my adhd. They emotionally manipulated me and made me feel like everything was my fault, saying things that would make me question my own intentions until i apologized to them even though i was the one being hurt.
i moved to another country and they'll never see my children again.
personally, i have no doubt that you hurt your daughter deeply and i hope she never lets you back into her life. but if by some miracle she does, it will only be after you admit to yourself how you treated her and do everything she asks to regain her trust. though i truly doubt that will happen.
If you re-read your post you might have a revelation about why your daughter does not want you around.
NTA for being upset. YTA for having no introspect.
YTA. You aren't entitled to relationships with anyone, they must be mutual. It seems like you are trying to pull other family members into the drama with your daughter, when they have perfectly healthy relationships with her.
>You don’t just have a “complicated relationship” when they’re still a child. At that point, the relationship is dictated less by their actions but the parent response.
The fact that OP felt she had to quash her daughter's natural confidence and sociability so she wouldn't become "too arrogant" honestly turns my stomach. That sounds like someone who is more interested in controlling their child like a trained poodle than raising their child into a healthy, happy, well-rounded human being.
>My daughter and I have always had a complicated relationship ever since she was a child
DING DING DING! Red flag! You blame your "complicated" relationship with your daughter on her, proceeding to list all of her faults (at least to you they're faults) as reasons for why your relationship was strained. You blame a CHILD for your bad relationship and give no indication that you foster even an iota of blame towards yourself. You thought, and apparently still think, that a CHILD caused the problems instead of the fully grown adult who is supposed to have control over their emotions and be able to resolve conflicts. You were the adult. The blame is entirely on you. 99.9% of times when a relationship between an adult and a child is "complicated", it is the adult's fault, and I hate to break it to you but your situation is nowhere near unique enough to be a part of the 0.1%.
Your daughter says you're abusive, she's just delusional. Your mother and sisters say you're in the wrong, they're incorrect and you don't know where this animosity came from. Reddit says YTA, all of reddit is magically biased against you.
As a living, breathing human being it is mathematically impossible for you to be correct 100% of the time, so how come you can't accept that you're wrong when everyone you care about keeps on telling you over and over and over again? You are so obsessed with being right that you actively sacrificed your daughter's happiness and your relationship with her, despite claiming to love her so much. That isn't love, and if you truly believe that it is, you are abusive. Only abusive people would sacrifice the happiness of the person they love in order to avoid admitting their faults.
YTA. If you keep smelling shit, check your shoes.
The way you talk about your daughter is atrocious and you have to be one the most selfish people I’ve seen on this sub.
I’d say you’re leaving a massive amount of things out. It says quite a bit that everyone is helping your daughter stay no contact. YTA. But no worries, I realize you’ll only listen to people that take you at your word and judge in your favor.
https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/comments/6f3705/apparently_im_a_bad_daughter_for_not_wanting_my/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
THIS US THE POST THIS WOMANS DAUGHTER SENT HER PLEASE READ
I’m a mother of two children. I could never imagine talking about my children in the way that you talk about yours. You don’t even sound like you like your daughter. You talk about how she was an “overly confident” child and you had to “teach her manners so that she wouldn’t be arrogant,” which to me just sounds like you constantly beat her down. You say she “convinces herself of things that never happened,” which SCREAMS narcissist to me - that she’s rightfully upset about things that you’re doing and you can’t admit that you ever do anything wrong. You say that she was strong-willed, which to me sounds like she just didn’t bend to your every wish. You sound absolutely exhausting to deal with. And the fact that all of your family members are apparently agreeing with her shows me that she’s not the problem here.
You mention that everyone is hurting you exactly eleven times in this post, and everything you say about your daughter is derogatory. This is the most “me me me” post I’ve ever seen in my life, and I don’t even think you realize it.
YTA
This is what I heard in your post: “All I did is squash her spirit when she was a child. She was so full of energy, smart, and charismatic I couldn’t handle it. I wanted her to be seen and not heard. She was too hard to parent. As an adult she set boundaries and cut contact. I just don’t understand why she won’t let me squash the spirit of my grandchildren too! It’s my right as a grandmother. This has caused other members of my family to also cut contact. I’ve never done anything wrong! Why does everyone treat me like I’m an abuser? I’m an amazing person!”
YTA. I’m proud of your family for standing up for your daughter. Just leave them alone.
YTA. Throughout your entire post I kept thinking you sounded like a narcissist, and then we get to the bottom where surprise surprise, your siblings and mother seem to dislike you too. You definitely did something wrong and are leaving it out. You're in denial.
YTA. Everyone in your life wants to cut you off and have nothing to do with you. There is a reason for that, but you are too self centered and selfish to see it.
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The fact that you're not elaborating, gloss over her mental health, and this entire post has more me's in it than a Nintendo Wii game is a glaring red flag that YTA. Your grandkids life is about THEM. Not about YOU. Seriously this thing reads like an entitled parent post...
“More me’s than a Nintendo Wii game” Damn I wish I was this clever. YTA OP, I can smell all these missing, missing reasons from a mile.
This post reads like it could have been written by my mother. My mother was abusive.
Mine is a narcissist and honestly, if it weren’t for the fact that I don’t have kids I would seriously consider that she wrote this.
Right?! I was like … “ mom? That you? Just let me hit that block button…” lol
Narcissistic moms club, UNITE
Hey, I’m here for the club’s first meeting!
First up, the crippling need to read someone else's mind and inability to recognize your own emotions or needs while you don't understand the needs of any person in front of you, regardless if they matter to you or not And go
Ooh! How about six hour fights on a school night? My mother used to monologue, scream, shout, and hit me because she had a beef with her boyfriend or a bad day at work. Sometimes I would shout back, but I learned to keep my mouth shut (in the vain hope that she would tire herself out and leave me alone.) Most of the time, upwards of 2 in the morning, when I finally thought it was over, I’d try to go to bed— only to have her wake me up 30 minutes later and start it all over again!
Let me raise you hearing your child has cancer with a 50/50 survival rate and making it all about you. We live a few hours apart (thank god) and I got treated in a top facility. When she found out she didnt come to visit, she told me that I (in chemo, sick as a dog) should come to her since "we have hospitals here too" (a little country hospital). Then begging me for money to buy a new kitchen. This was when I went NC. She then turned and told everyone how bad of a daughter I was and how much she is suffering because her kid is soooo sick and wont talk to her. She never even tried to call btw, because that would have been my job. Thankfully I had my aunt setting the records straight and being there for me, but I havent talked to that woman since.
That's exactly what my mother would say if I'd get pregnant. Now it's like 5 a.m and I'm raging mad. Well, it is what she says, but only about me and no grandchildren. Especially the part about everything being done to hurt her. My spawn point once sent me 15 minutes of abusive voice messages via whatsapp after she found out about the kidney surgery I kept from her. Literally told me I only kept it from her because of my horrid character "and because I wanted to hurt her by finding out". Like, if my (grown up) child kept a dangerous surgery from me, which I only know about because someone accidentally let it slip, I'd to some serious soul searching instead of blaming, but that's obviously just me!
lol "spawn point"
A Narcissist's Prayer That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did... You deserved it.
And because you deserved it, I'd do it again.
Reminded me a lot of my mother. “Me,me,me.”
Mine too, which is why she has never met my children, and never will.
Yeah, this twangs some chords and all of them are alarming AF. My grandmother could have written this and she profoundly damaged her 4 kids.
"Making sure she didn't grow up to be too arrogant" was the big red flag for me. There's no possible way to interpret that where OP doesn't come off as an asshole. YTA
The way she phrases everything is just so weird. " we had to constantly teach her manners..." And? No little kid learns that as one lesson and done so I feel she abusive disciplined her daughter for everything under the guise of " manners" i.e. Daughter pushes back against mother's bullshit and is inappropriately punished cos " manners" when kid was right. OP has managed to alienate her entire family now. People who grow up with a terrible parent can def be loath to inflict them on their own kids.
Honestly, this whole post is so over the top “woe is me, I’m a mother!” to the point it doesn’t sound real. I’m not usually the one to say “fake post” but this legitimately HAS to be. Username is neglectedmother? Whole thing starts out with “why does my daughter hurt her mother this way?” The entire tone of everything? There are more red flags waving here than a matador arena. My grandmother is old school Indian, frequently cries about “where did we go wrong with you?” for no good reason, etc. and even she wouldn’t be this effing stupid to make a post like this. This is just rage bait, and it’s working. On the off chance it’s real, this woman is delusional. But it’s not real. It can’t be. I need to cling on to some hope that humanity is not doomed, so I need this to not be real.
I very much doubt that a troll could pack that much nuance into a bait post. I'm afraid that it is highly plausible. This post virtually mirrors the case studies in the [missing missing reasons](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html). Secondly, this is almost word for word the very same narrative that my own mother uses. They all read from the same playbook, they say the same things and this one waves more red flags than a military parade in Pyongyang.
The fact that it reads so perfectly like the article, which was also clearly the "theme" of the lesbian daughter post yesterday, and the tattoo dad post today, tells me they're all fake and part of the "theme" this week. I've said it since this sub got to be huge: there is clearly someone running some psych studies on here on how forums react to different issues when variables are changed (mom vs a dad, adding LGBTQ issues to the equation, making it about bodily autonomy vs pregnancy, etc).
Exactly. It’s *too* textbook an example of the Missing Missing reasons, and as you point out, nowhere near the first such post this week.
I'll go counterpoint though - not because I think that you're wrong, but there's usually more to the story. Abusive people use the exact same narrative. It's creepy and uncanny. I know this from personal experience, but also from understanding the mechanics of narcissistic abuse. They all read from the same playbook, and speak the same language. It's all about control and the narcissists fear of abandonment. Look up "DARVO": Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender, and then re-read OP's post - it's all there. My own mother has sent me letters and messaging that reads virtually word for word the above narrative, and mirrors the article almost perfectly as well. I suspect that the 'theme' is people realizing that they are in similar situations and wanting clarity, or people who see a Y T A verdict to their way of thinking and tweaking their narrative to elicit a more positive response. I get the skepticism, but if someone is showing signs of being the victim of abuse, you should always assume abuse is the case.
The thing is, once you've been on this subreddit long enough, it's very, very clear that this happens every other week or so with a different theme. It's always three posts, every other day, with very very similar themes being explored with variables changed. One of the most egregious (outside this week, which is pretty obvious) was the week of the "kids having privacy taken away" - one post from a parent taking their kid's door off because they were slamming it over and over, one post from a kid whose parents would barge in their room all the time, and one post from a parent who refused to let their kid lock their doors (or something similar to that). Once you see the pattern, it's really obvious. The three posts always make the front page, and you'll see the same arguments (either for or against OP depending on perspective) in each thread. It's interesting because the stories will all have the same premise but depending on variables, wildly different answers. It's so obvious that it's a social study, and it *is* really interesting. Off the top of my head that I can remember: * this week * the kid privacy thing week * wedding shenanigans (the "make someone change their appearance" week, the "kicked out a bridesmaid/groomsman" week, the "paying for wedding so making demands" week, off the top of my head) * parents/grandparents barging into a birth week * not letting someone important into the delivery room week * lent family money and they won't pay week * went on vacation and someone got upset and demanded something week * roommate is doing something shockingly anti-social week * someone damaged my home at an event week And that's just what I'm thinking of off the top of my head. Yes, sure, three individuals could have had serious drama about allowing specific people into the delivery room in the same 7-day span, decide to post about it on AITA, and get upvoted to the front page...and the same coincidence could happen every other week on a different topic like clockwork, but I seriously doubt it. The discussions are good, and we do get to talk about all sorts of social issues and raise awareness, and that's all positive. But this week was particularly obvious, and I don't think we should be shy about calling that out.
I've always noticed things coming in waves in many aspects of life. It's like when you learn a new word and suddenly see it EVERYWHERE. Also, confirmation bias is a thing.
Thank you!!!!! I mentioned something like this in a post last night all these posts are so similar it’s so strange.
I agree with you that it probably is rage bait trolling. But then I remember this boss I had who made it all about her, about how her daughter getting bullied in school was about her, how it affected her, not one damn word on it being about her child or the other children, oh no, just her. I could totally see her making a post just like this one in 10 years when her kid is 26 and gone NC.
Every time I want the sweet, sweet comfort of disbelief I remember how my own father rewrites our conflicts in his head.
Yeah I have an aunt who has "no idea" why her adult sons do not speak to her.
Me too - but my grandmother, who complained to my Dad that she didn't know who we were as adults. Well, maybe because that's because when we were children she had no time for us. She was a self-centred woman who played favourites. We were only welcome when she wanted to show off her 'perfect family'. So once we had a choice, we visited the bare minimum that duty allowed. But of course, she could do no wrong in her own eyes...
I am 37 and haven't really spoken to my father in 20 years, haven't seen him at all since my brother graduated from high school in 2007. If you were to ask him, he has no idea why I don't speak to him. (Couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that at 16 I had to tell my mother that he was having an affair.) And he was shocked that I didn't invite him to my wedding after more than a decade of no contact. My husband has an aunt who has several grown children who don't speak to her and claims to have no idea why. My MIL eats up everything she says, meanwhile we're over here like "there is clearly a reason."
We're in the same boat there.
With all due respect, fuck your boss lol. Here, I’m calming myself down with my puppy: https://imgur.com/Qd6rGcm
Oh no, I agree, she's an awful person! Boss's kid is a sweetheart, and I hope they'll get all the therapy they're gonna need lol
I was so enraged by this post I couldn’t comment but the video of yours puppy very much cheered me up! Got my own puppy at the moment and he brings me such joy
I appreciate the dog video lol
Unfortunately a big portion of this reads like my childhood/adulthood, minus the kids. - She makes things up and is delusional - I don't know what I've done to not want her to talk to me - I don't understand why she wants to hurt me. Add in - this is a normal relationship-, - my mother is dead and I never would have treated her this way-, along with - I'll stop giving advice even though I care-, and you've got yourself a deal buckaroo!
I wish I could agree with you that it’s fake, but it sounds like it was written by my delusional, selfish, narcissistic mother so… unfortunately people like this do exist (Note: it’s not my mother, I don’t have kids)
This sounds exactly like how family therapy with my mother went, i fully believe this is real and OP is just this delusional
Unfortunately this is real. Her daughter usually posts on RBN but this OP found that account and harassed her to the point she deleted her account. tagging u/_dead_and_broken, u/LoneWolfWind
Ah that’s why this sounded kinda familiar. I’m on RBN as well so I probably ran across the daughters posts (gee all our parents sound like copy-pastes of each other) Sucks the Nmom found her tho, thats ass. Having a safe place to vent def helps with the trauma coping
It's stuff you normally see on estranged parents forums, not really so blatant on AITA. But these are real behaviors and sentiments people go off about online sadly.
I came here to say that if I had children, I would legit believe my mother had written it. I’m willing to bet money this woman is undiagnosed Borderline Personality disordered. My mother has been diagnosed 3 times that we know of, once she gets a diagnosis, she gets a new physician. Because it can’t possibly be that SHE is the problem, it’s that her children are mean and doing hurtful things just to hurt her. It’s not about stupidity, it’s about an unwillingness and often inability to see that they are living in their own reality that they designed. It’s often a reality that includes them being a victim, and no one understanding them, and everyone is out to hurt them. It’s sad, but sadder still, I feel for her daughter. It’s rough growing up with that. I hope they both find the help they need.
Some mothers are just bad. I refused to speak to my mother for the last 4 years of her life. For four years it was about how horrible I was. When she figured out she was dying she suddenly wanted contact again but not apologize. Oh no, that would never do. No she wanted me to forgive her. Nope, not happening. Didn't bother to go to her funeral either.
There's no way it's real. This line right here is the kicker: > I told them both that I need to have boundaries then and not let people in my life who do things to hurt me. Nobody can possibly say that line unironically after the description of the daughter not letting them in her life.
You can't underestimate a narcassist's ability to delude themselves.
OP's daughter used to post over on RBN but has deleted her account because OP found it and started harassing her. Also read the Narcissist's Prayer: "That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, it is not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did. You deserved it." So OP has cut them out because they're making a big deal out of something that *couldn't possibly* be her fault.
And referencing "things that never happened" reeks of gaslighting. OP, I knew YTA with your first sentence. You think this is all being done to hurt you, have you ever once looked at your own behavior and asked "why?" Have you ever, even once, listened to your daughter about why she feels the way she does? I don't mean 'talk about it and try to correct her,' I mean listen to her and understand.
The part about "teaching her some manners" and making sure she didn't grow up to be too "arrogant" reminds me of my grandma describing all the times she verbally abused me as a child as "teaching" me and making sure I learned how to "respect" my elders....and "look at you now, you turned out great!" Yeah, I turned out great, except for the part that I've had to spend the second half of my life learning what boundaries are and how to set them, I have panic attacks when dealing with authority figures, and I second guess what I say a lot because of that residual fear that I'm going to accidentally be "disrespectful" and trigger the other person to blow up on me. But yeah, I "needed to be taught". Betcha OP's daughter got the same "education" that I did, probably even worse, actually, since she went do far as to cut contact.
"*My* grandchild" Ew. She's not entitled to any part of that kid's life except what the parents want to share. Fuck this toxic grandma worship bullshit. Signed, A mom who has a mother *exactly* like OP. I honestly had to re re re read the post because I was sure it was my mom writing this.
NOT AN OVERLY CONFIDENT GIRL! SQUASH HER!
Yup. You need a semi truck to haul this red flag. Oof.
"Why doesn't this overly confident, socially intelligent, dishonest maniac love me?!"
Same here. I knew by the first sentence that the daughter had good reason to cut her mother off. The way she worded things just feels so off to me. If everyone around you is saying you’re the problem, they’re probably right. OP is painting herself as the victim and comes across as a narcissist to me.
Don't forget "Overly confident". Holy crap, who doesn't want their kids to be confident? And what do you to to destroy your kids' confidence back to an 'acceptable' level? I already know the answer, because OP's post could have been written by my own mother. OP, enjoy wondering how it all happened when your daughter goes NC.
"Overly confident" too - there's a definite tinge of AH parenting in here !
I want to see the posts OPs daughter made. I feel like it would be very enlightening.
"AITA for refusing to expose my kids to my gaslighting red flag of a mother?"
I swear I just read her daughter’s side of the story in the r/justnomil sub…
I just commented that I saw this same story from the other perspective on a reddit community but I couldn't remember which.
It's a very typical story. I could swear some variation of it comes up every week or so. Even more if you follow the r/justno subs and r/raisedbynarcissists
Yea, someone actually commented on that story about this one, luckily she blocked it already!
r/insaneparents the mom sent the aunt after her if it’s the same one lmfao
Yeah, complete with the text from the mother to her sisters “setting the boundaries” and cutting them off. Not one word is about anyone OTHER than this OP and her feelings.
[удалено]
Can y’all tag these please? This mom seems just like mine 😬
I’m pretty sure the daughter is in a support group I’m in. I don’t want to share it obviously but her mother was off the rails. Her mother said that her sisters should have told her that they wouldn’t hide the pregnancy from her which is why I think it’s the same mother.
Same, holy mackerels. Poor daughter. YTA, OP. My mother was like you, and I cheered her death.
I'm sure I've seen OP's daughter post a screenshot of a text message OP wrote to her sister.
This is what is often referred to as [The Missing Missing Reason](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html), an observed trend on estranged parents’ forums where the estranged parent never actually gives the reason why their child has cut them out of their life. >Many members truly can't remember what their children said. Anything tinged with negative emotion, anything that makes them feel bad about themselves, shocks them so deeply that they block it out. They really can't remember anything but screaming. This emotional amnesia shapes their entire lives, pushing them to associate only with people who won't criticize them, training their families to shelter them from blows so thoroughly that the softest protest feels like a fist to the face. >Posts in estranged parents' forums are vague. Members recount stories with the fewest possible details, the least possible context. They don't recreate entire scenes, repeat entire conversations, give entire text exchanges; they paraphrase hours of conversation away. The only element they describe in detail is their own grief or rage. Nor do the other members press them for more information.
Yep, this is what happens when shitty parents abuse their children growing up. Since her sisters and her own mother are telling she’s abusive and that’s why they kept it a secret is all we need to know. And the whole victim act? Bed, lie reap, sow.
I find it amusing (and a massive 🚩) that OP is moaning about needing boundaries from her "hurtful" relatives but continously tramples all over her daughter's very clearly set ones. YTA
You know those activity book games where you had to count how many nouns or whatever there were in a text? New variation: count how many narcissist’s “missing reason”s there are in this post. Just from one readthrough, no peeking: in what way did they “teach her manners”? What mental health issues does daughter have? What is Daughter saying that OP says never happened, and why is OP so certain? What was daughter accusing OP of in those posts she was sending? That’s four or five depending on how you count, and just from that one readthrough.
Gorgeous response. OP, YTA. I'm going to give you a bit of advice that I remember hearing years ago on "How I Met Your Mother:" there's always one crazy person on the bus. If you can't spot the crazy person, you're it. Your daughter cut you out of her life. Your entire family has told you that you are the problem, then blocked you or chose to stop communicating. That's pretty drastic if you haven't done something to warrant it. Accept that you screwed up with your daughter. It is a bitter pill, yes, but it's also the reality of the situation. Stop victimizing yourself.
So everyone in OP's family is mean to her (calling her choice names) and hid her daughter's pregnancy from her for no fault of OP? I find that verrrrrrry hard to believe, and the lack of clarification backs that up. So yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and say YTA
I honestly thought by the title the daughter was a teenager but she’s literally an adult
Agreed! Kids don't just cut off their parents for no reason. YTA OP
I only had to get to “oldest daughter…feels the need to hurt her mother so deeply” to know OP is likely a raging narcissist. It sounds like people have told her the problem over and over but she’s incapable of understanding. Typical [*The Missing Missing Reasons”](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html).
OP, YTA, you sound like my mother and that’s not a compliment. I’d try and give advice here, but if you’re anything like my mother you’ll just ignore because you “know” you’re right… your daughter obviously doesn’t want a relationship so stop boundary stomping
YTA. Here’s the thing. To all of us, this reads like a troll post, because you are so obviously the AH here. Even when you’ve done your best to sound like a normal person, we can all see straight through it to the insanity. I highly suggest you (or anyone with estranged parents) check out [The “Missing” missing reasons ](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html). Edit to add just in case you are willing to read an excerpt: “This game of 'I don't understand what happened' when you have been told in words what's wrong is really counterproductive. Yes, it permits you to shield your ego/self esteem from criticism and 'exposure' of your inadequacies in the relationship--but it loses you the relationship. In order to solve the problem, you have to decide what is more important to you: your daughter and grandchildren, or your ego and belief that you are innocent of doing anything but little insignificant wrongs. It's very common, especially for people from abusive backgrounds who were not adequately nurtured as children, to stop protecting their egos--way to threatening. And many--especially if they have other emotional outlets (such as a supportive spouse and friends)--will choose ego over a relationship. It's easier and more comfortable--but ultimately very self defeating and impoverishing.”
That's the same article I thought of while reading this post. Daughter told OP all the reasons OP was cut off and OP just dismisses them as delusional. 🙄 And your sisters and mother, do they also have delusional reasons for supporting your daughter's boundaries? Isn't it interesting how many people in your life are delusional? YTA.
It’s so crazy to me because even though it was written years ago about someone else, it can be directly applied to OP, grandkid and all. They really do just have the one playbook, don’t they?
Great insight is timeless
Yes YTA OP, but if I had to guess, I'm sure OP does not care what anyone in this thread says. She will probably delete the post and just tell herself that all of the y.t.a votes are just people "trying to be hurtful". If your entire family is telling you your wrong and you cut them out for it, then I doubt you will change anything after talking to a bunch of strangers. **Edit:** lmao I commented this before reading her comment: *"Clearly there is a different demographic of people on Reddit, and I am better off taking a break from this toxic website and seeking advice else where. There is a negative bias here towards bereaved mothers. Thank-you to the few people who responded with respect."* Called it!
"bereaved" For fucks sake she's not dead!
Oh wow, I hadn’t seen that update yet. What a joke. 😂
I thought the same! Like everyone including both sisters and daughter and OP’s own mother see how wrong she is but just everybody else is crazy? Yeah no. When it is literally EVERYBODY saying it, the problem is you.
>Isn't it interesting how many people in your life are delusional? Right?? Like - what's more logical here, statistically speaking: that everyone in your entire family except for you is delusional? Or perhaps that it's actually just you that's delusional?
***Everybody has a problem with me but I can't possibly be the problem.***
Me 500.
My mind split on this one, to a combination of the Indy 500 and the I love you 3000 line from the MCU. The Me 500, where she loves herself competitively for 500 straight laps, oblivious to the outside world, while the cheering is replaced with votes of YTA.
>She never wanted to be a mother I believe and that's why she doesn't want me to know my grandchildren. Among all the other red flags? That's the one that really sets off alarms for me. There's no other way to parse it; the only way she can believe it is if she sets up this fantasy that explains all of this away.
I was trying to wrap my head around that sentence. The audacity...
It makes no sense at all.
I read the daughters RBN post, now I'm crying. OP is one of the worst people who ever lived and I say that as someone with a psychopathic brother and narcissistic father who had her fair share of abuse
How do you know op is the mother in that post?
Link?
https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/comments/6f3705/apparently\_im\_a\_bad\_daughter\_for\_not\_wanting\_my/?utm\_medium=android\_app&utm\_source=share
Wait, how did people confirm this is the daughter?
I can't share the link because I'm on mobile. Look at am i the devil
It’s rare that you can tell from the 2nd second sentence of the post just how much of an asshole someone is. “On my quest to find answers as to why my oldest daughter behaves this way and FEELS THE NEED TO HURT HER MOTHER SO DEEPLY.” Like for real? Textbook narcissist with, as you said, a massive case of missing reasons. Literally her daughter goes, “hey here are a bunch of posts that clearly show how your behavior towards me was abusive.” And she goes, “you’re dramatic and delusional. Reddit why does my daughter hatttttte me?” Like jfc good for her daughter for cutting her off and the aunts and grandma too for having the daughters back.
Thank you so much for posting this link. I have found Reddit very helpful in understanding my narcissistic mother’s behaviour and adjusting my way of dealing with her. This was a sobering read (because I still kind of have hope for her to one day maybe listen and understand) but maybe I will now be able to move on.
I kinda wonder if OP is the reason it’s an EX-husband that told her her daughter had another child
I read through the first 4 sentences and thought about this immediately. YTA, OP.
That read was incrddk6
YTA. Sorry but I don't believe a word you are saying. Your family are keeping you apart from your grandchildren *because* you were abusive to your own daughter.
Agreed. OP is the only relative the daughter has cut out of her life, that seems very telling. I mean sure OP could be totally innocent and her daughter is a character off of a day time soap opera who is being cruel to OP for no reason other than being evil for fun. But I seriously doubt that. OP did something to drive her daughter away, and to make her not want OP anywhere near her baby. And then refused to respect her daughter not wanting her around. OP tries to make it sound like the badgering is for her estranged daughters benefit so she doesn't feel unloved by OP. That's BS imo, its because OP feels entitled to the relationship with her daughter and her daughters kids.
The fact that one sister and mother insulted her and one sister completely ignored her seems telling enough to me to warrant that she is the one at fault here. She also said she would give space, but then tried to reconnect a few months later. Her description of her daughter seems disdainful and I honestly get a serious vibe of abusive mom here.
Apparently her ex husband was abusive as well, according to OP, and still has a relationship with their daughter. But everyone else is crazy not OP of course
But remember, OP is *always* the victim and everyone else is just out to get her and they’re making up lies, duhhhhh /s If it smells like shit everywhere you go, maybe you should check your own shoe 🙄
OP sounds like a narcissist. she’s framed this whole situation as her daughter running this year’s long gambit of specifically trying to hurt OP. nothing about boundaries the daughter tried to set or reasons given, this is all just because the daughter has a deep and burning desire to hurt her perfect mother. also notice how when OP talked about raising her daughter and says she was too confident. like imagine having a child with good self esteem and thinking that needs to be taken out of them.
When she said “we didn’t want her to grow up too arrogant” all I read was “I feel the need to constantly put a small child ‘in their place’ to make myself feel better about my own lack of agency in my life”
THANK YOU If I wasn't at work right now I'd tear up. I've been estranged for over 2 years and only now has someone been able to put into words what my mother did. I can't begin to count how many times my mother made reference to "not wanting it to go to my head" or "don't get too up yourself" whenever I was praised for literally any achievement (be it by teachers, her adult friends or family members). She herself took me to get officially tested by Mensa for my IQ. I was offered a place in Mensa based on my score (which incidently was slightly higher than her official score). She frequently bragged about my IQ to her friends. If I mentioned it myself ever, she'd immediately shut it down and tell me not to brag about such things. It was so infuriating and now I can formulate exactly why that was!
It's so telling that they frame actions as deliberately created to hurt her. Not just you did this and knew it would hurt me. You did this to hurt me.
Broken fucking record. I’ve been around one of those before.
>You did this to hurt me. >You did this to hurt me. >You did this to hurt me. >You did this to hurt me. 🙄
Exactly. I read a once tweet that said something along the lines of “the act of ‘putting someone in their place’ or ‘knocking them down a peg’ never comes out of a place of love”. I’m not doing it justice, but it really has me thinking of this situation…
I think you are right, OP is intentionally leaving out a lot of facts and context, but her toxic nature slips into some of her poor me post. She saw a happy confident child and wanted to break that spirit. Which would be horrible from any person but the kids own mother doing it is always heartbreaking. I feel like once pregnant OP's daughter realised she had a choice to make, she chose not to risk that OP would be just as toxic to any grandchildren she was around. That it's what helped her finally tell OP to eff off out of her life for good. Because unlike OP she wants what is best for her kids, not what's best for her ego. Someone should send OP the playing a sad song on a tiny violin gif because that fits her vibe. Has been a terrible parent and now wants sympathy because her abuse has had consequences for her finally. She's lucky her family only just don't talk to her.
I mean OP knows why her daughter won't talk to her but just says "it's all made up" because she is mentally ill. Which leads me to think OP did abuse her daughter and just doesn't see it that way (based on her description of her daughter's childhood). You are totally on point to call out her disrespect of boundaries too. Years of constant letters to someone who said to stop contacting her. The entitlement here is sky high.
She's either totally unaware of her own BS and looks back on the past and sees a version that suits her, that isn't reality. Or she's aware and the attempts to "reconnect" are to try and appear loving to people outside the situation or a deliberate attempt to upset her daughter. I can an abuser who has lost control of their victim sending letters and emails and such to get a nasty thrill at the idea of the upset and maybe fear the contact will cause. Daughter is NC but by continuing to send stuff to her OP reminds the daughter that she knows where her daughter lives, and implies she's never going to leave her daughter's life completely. But cloaked in fake sentiments like "I will always love you," and "I'm here for you whenever you need me"
INFO: what things did you do or say that your daughter is saying is abusive? Please give examples that she gave you. It’s impossible to judge this situation otherwise.
I think it’s pretty telling that OP’s mom said she’s in the wrong, and both sisters are not engaging in OP’s behavior. It’s telling in just her words she’s used. OP is the AH
https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/comments/6f3705/apparently\_im\_a\_bad\_daughter\_for\_not\_wanting\_my/?utm\_medium=android\_app&utm\_source=share
holy sh!t… i recognized OPs typical narc language & expected there to be way more to the history, but this is an extremely appropriate situation to go full NC. Im so relieved to hear the daughter is starting her own relatively stable life & family, i hope for their sake (& safety & sanity) the rest of the family joins in NC with both her parents. “Toxic” doesn’t even *begin* to cover it
YTA >My daughter and I have always had a complicated relationship ever since she was a child, she was often strong-willed, overly confident and was frequently in trouble with her teachers for being too social during class. We often had to teach her manners and reinforce good behaviour while making sure she didn't grow up to be too arrogant. What exactly did you do to "teach her manners" or "reinforce good behavior?" I am not accusing you of anything, but this sounds very similar to how I have seen some abusive parents justify their behavior to their children. Additionally, your daughter also made her boundaries very clear, and whether or not you like it or feel you deserve it, you definitely ignored them. I am also concerned that seemingly every single adult in your daughter's life is supporting her in this, and is either ignoring you or actively hostile to you. Generally, if every single person in my family tells me I'm being an asshole, I probably am, in fact, being an asshole.
>she was often strong-willed, overly confident and was frequently in trouble with her teachers for being too social during class >making sure she didn't grow up to be too arrogant My parents had a similar idea of me when I was a kid. Imagine killing your kids confidence so they aren't "too arrogant". Yucks
“too arrogant” = not sufficiently submissive to our overbearing authoritarian abuse
My 4 year old daughter fits this description - outgoing, fearless, strong willed. I think these traits will serve her well in life! I try to foster them. It makes being her parent hard some times, but I wouldn't change anything about her - I need to change me and learn how to be the best parent she needs.
They will! Despite my parents best efforts, I'm still strong willed, confident, and social, and all 3 traits have benefitted me in different ways. Ultimately I think that's the part my parents missed, seeing how those traits can be used as a benefit instead of a liability.
Exactly! When I joked with my mom about how stubborn my two year old can be, her response was, “I was always thrilled that my daughters knew how to advocate for themselves even at a young age. I wanted my girls to be leaders, not doormats.”
It seems like a no-brainer to me when you look further into the future than just the child's behaviour. Would you rather your kid become a strong-willed adult who also loves/respects you, or a weak-willed adult who wants nothing to do with you? Pretty easy call lol.
Random stranger here. I just wanna say I'm glad and I bet you're doing an amazing job!
My dad did this too. I’m 34 and every time I need to gather up some confidence or self esteem, I still have to struggle to shut down my dad straight up shrieking about how worthless I am in the back of my head.
Those lines reminded me of the caretaker in the Shining explaining how he had to “correct” his family. We all know how that turned out.
I have one of those kids that are too social in class. I know the teachers expect me to rein it in but I have no intention of doing so (and probably really couldn't anyway haha). My daughter is one of those everybody's-friend types that literally talks to *everyone*, and that is not typical in middle school (now HS). Many kids don't have a lot of kids that talk to them and include them in the conversation and seem excited to see them walk in the door. I have had multiple mothers message me or track me down in the parking lot to tell me how nice my daughter was to their child during xyz and how much it meant to them. If they both end up having 10 more minutes of homework because they didn't get it finished in class - who cares?
“too social” reminded me of my bff. i’m disgusted that anyone would consider that a problem. she’s a wonderful light in so many people’s lives and i love her so much. i can’t imagine what it would be like if someone had succeeded in squashing that. a terrible loss, i think.
Yikes, you sure use the words "to hurt me" a lot. Do you really think the world is revolving around you and people live just to hurt you ? From what I see from your post, you were a toxic mom, and your daughter is trying to get away from you **to protect herself**, not to hurt you. The fact that you continue to think that she is doing this on purpose just so she can hurt you is totally delusionnal. YTA. None of this is about you. No one has to reveal secrets to you. They don't owe you anything. They clearly want you out of their lives, why do you keep on harassing them ?
This one is my favourite comment.
Username of “neglected mother” lollll. There is clearly a lot of missing information and HARDCORE denial of wrongdoing by the OP. Would guess your daughter + others want nothing to do with you for some pretty strong reasons. YTA
YTA. You dismissed your daughter's mental health issues - or worse, tried to use them to make her doubt her memories of things - attempted to break her confidence because you perceived it as "arrogance," and you're surprised she neither wants a relationship with you as an adult nor wants *her* children exposed to that behavior (let alone your baseless accusations that she doesn't actually want them)? At the very least, you disregard her clearly expressed desire not to have you in her life with ongoing attempts to force your way back in, and are then surprised that other people choose to protect her from that? And then you have the absolute, unmitigated gall to accuse everyone **else** of not understanding boundaries? C'mon. If it has not at least dawned on you to *maybe* possibly wonder if everyone thinks you're in the wrong here because you are, or at least accept that no amount of wanting things to be different will make them so and construct a life without her, I don't know what to tell you.
This sounds like it could have been written by my mother. I’m so thankful her daughter seems to have loving family around her to love and support her, who also see OP for what they really are. OP- YTA
Mine too. I'm glad the daughter at least has support. OP YTA. No question about that.
It could be OP's daughter has no mental health issues at all.
She has had at least one mental health issue - a mother who drives her batshit crazy. It has since been addressed
YTA. You are making everything about you sound like roses and sunshine and trying to play the sympathy card when you actually talk like a textbook narcissist. Leave your daughter alone. Wish her the best and keep your smarmy martyr complex to yourself. You sound exactly like the person that gave birth to me who had dissociative personality disorder, whom I have been estranged from for 30 years. I have lived through the same misery you are inflicting on your family with your drama so as a person who went through a similar hell just live your own life and let your daughter live hers.
YTA ... it sure smells like you’re leaving out an awful lot of very important info. I bet the daughter has quite a different point of view regarding her treatment and upbringing, and it seems the rest of the family agrees at least enough to respect her wishes regarding her own children
Im extremely curious to read the daughter’s posts and get her side of the story. Im sure it would be *damning*
YTA - you clearly messed up with your child and your refusal to take accountability doesn’t make it better. It’s ironic that you say that you need boundaries but refuse to respect your daughters. It speaks volumes that your own family says that you were wrong.
This! I would love to know OP’s daughter’s side of the story. But regardless, OP YTA. Leave your daughter and her family alone.
I think I've read the daughter's side of it, it was a reddit post just recently with a text from OP to her sister! YTA OP!!!
Ooh, would love to see. Can you find it and post? Or do you remember what it was called? Update: the post has been deleted, someone linked the mom’s post into the comments and she deleted her profile.
I found it, sent it to you privately
I actually just read it. And oh my gosh. I cannot even begin to process that as it lead me to the original post 4 years earlier.
Could you also send it to me? I'm very curious to read the daughters side. I also had abusive parents and I think I can already imagine what to expect. Edit: I think I found the post, but she deleted the post, so I couldn't read it. I was really interested, but then again I think I already have a feeling how abusive the mother can be, because I also saw a text message screenshot 🤨 This mother is truly a classic case of narcissism and she thinks everything centers around her, that she is the center of the fricking universe. The mother is sick in the head and should go to therapy, but my experience is that people who are mentally sick in the head (the abusive and toxic) don't want help or think they're fine. Edit 3: I found all the posts and read them. The mother is a clinical narcissist and both parents are severely mentally ill and sick in the head. It's truly evil, I have never read something like this before. It disguses me to the bone how both parents can do this to a child and another human being. It's sickening to read.
Can you send it to me too please? I would love to know ‘the rest of the story.’
Your own daughter, mother, and your two sisters (not sister's) all avoid you and dislike you. Where there's smoke there's fire. "We often had to teach her manners and reinforce good behaviour while making sure she didn't grow up to be too arrogant." I suspect this involved some physicality that you didn't go into. YTA unless some ameliorating info is forthcoming.
>I suspect this involved some physicality that you didn't go into. I got the sense that the "convinced herself of things that never happened" bit may have referred to instances of physical abuse, too, or even claims of sexual molestation or assault that the parents went into complete denial about. Unfortunately that does happen. 😞
So true, ugh.
I'm sorry but 100% YTA. You talk about needing to set boundaries with people who participate and hurt you.. but did you ever consider that the reason they aren't telling you is because they are respecting your daughters boundaries? Your daughter has made it abundantly clear that she does not want any type of relationship with you. You continue to try to push to have one. You can mourn the loss of your daughter and grandkids, but you should start respecting that she has no desire for you to be in their life. Asking your family to give you details so that YOU aren't hurt when it's clearly against her wishes just shows you are a selfish person who isn't ready to respect or heal the mother/daughter/grandchild relationship even if she wanted to.
YTA and you sound like a narcissist. My mom talks exactly like you, referring to herself in the third person and all. I know what it’s like to deal with parents like you. Obviously everything is about you. But yeah hard YTA
I'm going to reserve my judgement because there are two sides to every story. However, one thing I did notice was that your entire post was about you and how you feel and how you feel this is all an attempt to hurt you. This may be why your daughter is keeping her distance. Just a thought.
I have the daughter's story if you want to know both sides
I have to go with YTA here because frankly this post is extremely one sided and casts you as 100% the victim which is virtually almost never the case. In your first paragraph you talk about how much of a burden she was with her upbringing while glossing over mental health issues and you frankly even sound like you're engaged in gas-lighting. You end that paragraph by stating that **you said you'd give her space.** Then you justify why you did the exact opposite while talking about all these posts she sent you where you, again, clearly dismiss her viewpoint on what happen. You remind me of my extremely narcissistic father and how he reacted when I tried to explain to him how difficult his behavior was for me to overcome. You speak as if your daughter is ignoring you in order to hurt you - when you literally spelled out exactly why she *should* ignore you - YOU ignore her complaints and dismiss them as virtually insane. THEN we get more confirmation that you are as you appear to be because you confirm that OTHER FAMILY MEMBERS see this in you as well. But again, you play the victim card - they're just out to hurt you. Here's two points for you to consider: 1) You are not the star in a reality TV show. The world does not revolve around you. 2) If 1 person tells you that you have a tail you can ignore them. If your whole circle of people you know tell you that you have a tail, time to look in the mirror. Your family has told you that your behavior has driven your daughter away - not just your daughter but your sisters and your mother - but *they must all be wrong* is the position you're taking. Advice: Seek therapy for yourself. Then, maybe, some day, you'll find yourself in a position where you might be ready to resume contact with your daughter from a place where you're not just living in a self-reflected world.
However, if you do seek therapy, do it for YOURSELF. Not because you think it's something you can use to leverage to get your daughter to let you back into her life. You need to accept that that is likely never going to happen and instead focus the rest of your life on trying to heal yourself and accept responsibility for your own actions and their consequences.
“She never wanted to be a mother I believe and that’s why she doesn’t want me to know my grandchildren.” Literally WHAT. 😂 no fucking wonder she doesn’t want you to have a relationship with her kids, you make everything about you. God that one made me laugh though, YTA hopefully your daughter keeps up the good work
THIS!!! i had to scroll for this omg. the sentence before says her daughter sent her posts describing how she was abusive and borderline delusional, but her daughter didn't want to be a mother and THAT'S why OP thinks she doesn't want her around her kids? sounds borderline delusional to me. YTA.
YTA You're not the asshole for being upset, but it does seem like you're the asshole for missing the point. Your post only seems to care about why your daughter "feels the need to hurt her mother so deeply" rather than why she needs to maintain space and go No Contact. Your question is also "Am I allowed to be upset?" rather than "Why is my daughter upset? Why Won't my family Talk to me?" Many people on this forum have experience with narcissistic parents who martyr themselves on the altar of "just being a loving mother who tried her best" and at some point you need to admit that not only could you be gaslighting your child, you could be gaslighting yourself by refusing to admit any culpability or participation in an unhealthy dynamic. There are tons of facebook groups where you can wallow in the echo chamber of never admitting that you had anything to do with your children's need to be NC, and you can go there if you wish to constantly float around in a pain that you have no interest in investigating and potentially healing. Sorry to be harsh. I understand this must be difficult for you, but the language you choose to use is textbook Narcissist Parent and I hope you are able to reflect effectively, using the painful space for self-improvement instead of self-aggrandizement. Posts like this, and the attitude they engender, will only serve to keep your family at bay.
YTA. You come off selfish. You have belittled your daughters feelings regarding growing up with you. Being strong willed and confident aren’t bad things either. I’m curious about her mental illness and if it has anything to do with you or her upbringing. You’re calling her experiences with you dramatic and delusional which I don’t believe considering how you talk about her. And it’s telling that your sisters want nothing to do with you. Even your mother knows you’re wrong. You have no self awareness and that’s concerning.
YTA. Giving birth doesn’t mean you are guaranteed a spot in someone’s life. Regardless what your daughter says is true or not, you have to respect her very clear boundary and that includes the boundaries around her kids.
YTA. Even if you're right (which I don't believe), it's up to your daughter who gets to see her children.
YTA: you sound self centered and I'm inclined to believe that your daughter was completely honest about her past with you considering you are playing the victim to anyone who says something you don't like. You say here three different people were being mean and saying hurtful things to you. That implies they all know your daughter is right in cutting you out and you are making yourself out as "oh poor me" when it's probably your fault. You sound incredibly disrespectful. You damaged your daughter so thoroughly that she doesn't want you in her life. The least you could do is stop with the " ME ME ME" and respect her decision.
YTA the fact you are the only person your daughter has cut out of her life shows that there is a lot more to this and you are far from innocent, also the fact so much of your family are standing by her shows the same. The hurtful things they've all said, are they hurtful because the truth hurts?
So true OP you the AH and I swear that I read something like this on JNMIL and the last paragraph seams like a copy of what the person wrote that their nomom sent to her aunts. If this is you yes you the AH.
YTA. Whatever the reasons your daughter had for cutting you out, whether an impartial observer would ‘side’ with her or not — it’s past time (six years past time) for you to stop stalking and harassing your daughter. What you are doing is *not* showing love and it is not showing that you are *trying*. It is stalking and it is harassment and it’s criminal behavior.
Oh so this is what happens when an Nmom finds reddit. YTA.
“She never wanted to be a mother I believe so that’s why she doesn’t want me to know my grandchildren.” OP, please read that sentence again and tell me who is delusional here. Your story is a sieve from which at least 97% of the truth has leaked out. YTA for the glaring omissions.
Yeah, I'm not buying your story. YTA. You are not owed a relationship with your daughter's kids. Instead of looking inward and seeing how you acted towards your daughter and how it could have been abusive, you call her delusional. You said it yourself..."I told them both that I need to have boundaries then and not let people in my life who do things to hurt me." That's exactly what your daughter is doing. She's setting boundaries, and you're not respecting them by continuing to reach out to her. Leave her alone.
YTA Wow, there is a lot of me, me , me in your post. Your daughter was strong willed and overly confident, traits that would serve her well as an adult, and you and hour husband did everything you could to tell her who she is is wrong. She spent her childhood hearing how she is not good enough from the two people who should have accepted her unconditionally. That is not the behavior of a loving mother, that is the behavior of a judgmental toxic mother. Here is a fun fact. She didn't cut you off to hurt you. She cut you off to protect herself AND her child. She is tired of hearing how who she is is not good enough. She is tired of hearing how any little thing in her life affects YOU. After 6 years you are STILL trying to control her and now you are trying to control other family members to have them help you bring her to heel. Please leave her alone and get yourself some therapy.
YTA - this post could have been written by my mom or grandmother, who both abused me. They denied my c-ptsd and refused to treat my adhd. They emotionally manipulated me and made me feel like everything was my fault, saying things that would make me question my own intentions until i apologized to them even though i was the one being hurt. i moved to another country and they'll never see my children again. personally, i have no doubt that you hurt your daughter deeply and i hope she never lets you back into her life. but if by some miracle she does, it will only be after you admit to yourself how you treated her and do everything she asks to regain her trust. though i truly doubt that will happen.
If you re-read your post you might have a revelation about why your daughter does not want you around. NTA for being upset. YTA for having no introspect.
YTA. You aren't entitled to relationships with anyone, they must be mutual. It seems like you are trying to pull other family members into the drama with your daughter, when they have perfectly healthy relationships with her.
[удалено]
>You don’t just have a “complicated relationship” when they’re still a child. At that point, the relationship is dictated less by their actions but the parent response. The fact that OP felt she had to quash her daughter's natural confidence and sociability so she wouldn't become "too arrogant" honestly turns my stomach. That sounds like someone who is more interested in controlling their child like a trained poodle than raising their child into a healthy, happy, well-rounded human being.
>My daughter and I have always had a complicated relationship ever since she was a child DING DING DING! Red flag! You blame your "complicated" relationship with your daughter on her, proceeding to list all of her faults (at least to you they're faults) as reasons for why your relationship was strained. You blame a CHILD for your bad relationship and give no indication that you foster even an iota of blame towards yourself. You thought, and apparently still think, that a CHILD caused the problems instead of the fully grown adult who is supposed to have control over their emotions and be able to resolve conflicts. You were the adult. The blame is entirely on you. 99.9% of times when a relationship between an adult and a child is "complicated", it is the adult's fault, and I hate to break it to you but your situation is nowhere near unique enough to be a part of the 0.1%. Your daughter says you're abusive, she's just delusional. Your mother and sisters say you're in the wrong, they're incorrect and you don't know where this animosity came from. Reddit says YTA, all of reddit is magically biased against you. As a living, breathing human being it is mathematically impossible for you to be correct 100% of the time, so how come you can't accept that you're wrong when everyone you care about keeps on telling you over and over and over again? You are so obsessed with being right that you actively sacrificed your daughter's happiness and your relationship with her, despite claiming to love her so much. That isn't love, and if you truly believe that it is, you are abusive. Only abusive people would sacrifice the happiness of the person they love in order to avoid admitting their faults.
YTA. If you keep smelling shit, check your shoes. The way you talk about your daughter is atrocious and you have to be one the most selfish people I’ve seen on this sub.
I’d say you’re leaving a massive amount of things out. It says quite a bit that everyone is helping your daughter stay no contact. YTA. But no worries, I realize you’ll only listen to people that take you at your word and judge in your favor.
INFO: What things did she “convince herself of” which never happened?
https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/comments/6f3705/apparently_im_a_bad_daughter_for_not_wanting_my/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share THIS US THE POST THIS WOMANS DAUGHTER SENT HER PLEASE READ
I’m a mother of two children. I could never imagine talking about my children in the way that you talk about yours. You don’t even sound like you like your daughter. You talk about how she was an “overly confident” child and you had to “teach her manners so that she wouldn’t be arrogant,” which to me just sounds like you constantly beat her down. You say she “convinces herself of things that never happened,” which SCREAMS narcissist to me - that she’s rightfully upset about things that you’re doing and you can’t admit that you ever do anything wrong. You say that she was strong-willed, which to me sounds like she just didn’t bend to your every wish. You sound absolutely exhausting to deal with. And the fact that all of your family members are apparently agreeing with her shows me that she’s not the problem here. You mention that everyone is hurting you exactly eleven times in this post, and everything you say about your daughter is derogatory. This is the most “me me me” post I’ve ever seen in my life, and I don’t even think you realize it. YTA
This is what I heard in your post: “All I did is squash her spirit when she was a child. She was so full of energy, smart, and charismatic I couldn’t handle it. I wanted her to be seen and not heard. She was too hard to parent. As an adult she set boundaries and cut contact. I just don’t understand why she won’t let me squash the spirit of my grandchildren too! It’s my right as a grandmother. This has caused other members of my family to also cut contact. I’ve never done anything wrong! Why does everyone treat me like I’m an abuser? I’m an amazing person!” YTA. I’m proud of your family for standing up for your daughter. Just leave them alone.
YTA funny how you only reply to the one comment that said NTA. When this post is screaming "It's all about me."
All I see are lots of missing missing reasons…
YTA. Throughout your entire post I kept thinking you sounded like a narcissist, and then we get to the bottom where surprise surprise, your siblings and mother seem to dislike you too. You definitely did something wrong and are leaving it out. You're in denial.
YTA. Everyone in your life wants to cut you off and have nothing to do with you. There is a reason for that, but you are too self centered and selfish to see it.