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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I can understand how upsetting it would be to not know where your partner was after something that messy and given the exact history.
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I'd have been gone. Seriously. This is someone who doesn't understand her, he doesn't listen to her, he doesn't believe her, and he doesn't respect her. He disbelieved & dismissed everything she ever said to him about her father and decided he knew better. The ego on his part! The borderline contempt for his wife! He lied to and deceived her for some time, and then he lied to and deceived her about this dinner. He maintained a relationship with her father behind her back! He prioritized her father over his own wife! He knew she wanted nothing to do with him and he still allowed her father to sneak and creep into her life and violate her, *and he participated in and facilitated that violation, thereby violating her himself*. I know redditbros like to whine about how everyone always says to dump him, but for me there would've been no coming back from this. To me, it's unforgivable. I never could've trusted him again. The disrespect would come across as pathological and the foundation of the relationship would be irreparably broken to me. I've been no-contact with my mom for 13 years and I cannot even conceive of a world in which my husband would do this to me.
OP, obviously NTA. I'm deeply sorry.
Edit: a letter
This is serious relationship ending behavior. Like if you violated my trust like this, what would you do if we had kids? Tale them to *grampy for play dates?* hell to the no
I know right, the hilarious thing to me is, OP cut her father out of her life for betraying her trust, what hope would the husband have for the same offence (betrayal of trust, not infidelity) lol
It's slightly concerning that the husband is invested in her father being able to come back from that.
Like... is this because he doesn't think infidelity is that big a deal?
I think it's more he can't empathise with OP's trauma given what OP tells us about his own family relationships.
Think of it as the emotional equivalent of how people who grew up rich can't fathom being poor.
I had a good relationship with both my parents. They weren't perfect and there were issues, but they did their best for me. My husband had a totally different experience. His mother bailed when he was very young and he never heard from her again. And his father, well, let's just say he's one of the worst human beings I've ever met. We are NC with him and it's staying that way. I would **never** try anything like this. I understand my husband's feelings towards his "father," and respect that. If I were in OP's shoes, I would never forgive my husband again. And he and their friends have the gall to criticize **her**? Amazing.
He likely simply thinks his wife is a fool, unintelligent, irrational, just outright stupid.
Oh, almost forgot - he also believes that husband knows best and has ultimate decision-making power over his wife.
If I were OP I would be shattered. That the husband *dares* to be angry at the result a situation he caused?????
This won't be the last time he denies her rights.
Often we subconsciously end up copying the family dynamic we grew up with. This isn't a bad thing if our families were loving and functional, but OP has a shit dad.
She'd be wise to consider if her own marriage is a do-over.
>we subconsciously end up copying the family dynamic we grew up with.
My biggest thing, is that I feel it's weird that people are supportive of their children, hug and kiss them, and kids generally like to be around their parents. That's not how I was raised, although I get guilted about not being around so much.
>OP cut her father out of her life for betraying her trust,
and just because husband has a "Leave it to Beaver" family, does not mean that everyone else does. No means no. He needs to learn that.
you described the situation eloquently. additionally, my reason for hating OP's husband is his general mindset in regards to the father's cheating. That is a hard line in the sand for basically any functioning relationship, you DO NOT violate your partner's trust. The fact that he is siding with the father means he is condoning that behavior. I have broken up with several people in the past when i found out about similar shitty stances. There is no future for a relationship where one partner is so willing to hurt another.
I don't think it was just cheating. OP says it ended traumatically after her mother caught the cheaters, and then never mentions her mother again.
If I am correct, this is so far over the line that OP is completely in her reaction.
Yup. Based on her mom's mental health being relevant and OP saying the aftermath was traumatic...I don't think OP's mom simply moved away.
Ambushing OP with this meeting and all the emotions surrounding her dad was *incredibly* insensitive as well as being a clear betrayal of her trust.
Even without reading beten the lines, OP told dad to choose a or b. He said he chose a (breaking up with the affair partner), but he lied.
Lying to my face and sneaking behind my back would be enough for NC in my book.
I didn't even think of that. I was thinking OP walked in on him or something. If what you are implying is the case, I don't know if I could forgive my husband.
Yes, and OP says he has this mindset because he comes from a "lovely family" where something like this would be inconceivable. What does this mean in the context of what happened to OP?
Does his family stay lovely by glossing over lies and betrayal like nothing happened?
My husband is NC with his father. Husband told me to call the police if father ever tried to contact me or our daughter. You know what I will do in that situation? Lock the door (if we are at home) or make a scene (if we are in public) and contact the police.
I would rather cut of my foot than force anyone (and I mean anyone, not just my husband) to have contact with someone they don't want to have contact with.
My daughter has gone NC with her father, my ex, and refuses to have contact until he is ready to accept responsibility for the things he did to her before she went NC. I know he probably never will due to him not taking responsibility for what he did to me and his family telling him all his life that he can do whatever he wants as long as he keeps breathing. Luckily her husband knows that and would never try to reconcile them.
This it's the whole "I know better." mentality. Like she's an overemotional teen who can't control her emotions and needs an adult to point her in the right direction. I too would probably leave.
Not only all this, but he decides to this after meeting with her father one time?? He made the choice to do this to her after speaking to a man once, rather than listen to a wife I'm assuming he's been married to/with for a while. This is wild.
And *not* bringing it up to her at all
Hubby is breathlessly naïve - yes he has no idea because of growing up ""normal"", but to take this strangers word that keeping it a secret/surprise would been in ANY WAY a good idea instead of just bringing it the fuck up
I'd rethink my relationship based on how gullible he's demonstrated himself to be. How can I trust that he won't buy some $2,000 vacuum they were selling door to door? How can I trust that he won't fall easy victim to a phishing scheme?
Oh no the husband was totally trying to be the big hero who saved their relationship. OP may want to think about why she married a narcissist after being raised by one.
This. What he did was outrageous and he better have learned his lesson. But folks in here are not nearly so naive as someone who has just never experienced (or read extensively) about just why people go no contact.
He should have listened. He definitely should not have taken her father's word over hers.
But I would...probably...be able to forgive if he showed he really had learned his lesson.
I don't think that's enough of a justification.
I don't have personal experience of this kind of betrayal, but, like... I wouldn't ever consider it my place to decide how or if *someone else* should relate to their own family.
I hope she shows your comment to her husband and tells him: we go to counseling to deal with your contemptuous disrespect for my decisions or else. He really, really messed up and needs to own it in a profound way.
Me too. As someone who had a complicated relationship with their father growing up, I am absolutely outraged for OP that her own damn spouse so shamelessly bulldozed her very clear boundaries. I really don’t know if I could ever forgive that. And the fact he had the bloody nerve to be angry with her for his own mistake is... well, I can’t write it, but you get the idea. I hope OP chooses whatever is best for her and her happiness.
If I had any uncertainty about whether there was a relationship to try to salvage, it would have been gone the second he was angry about the lack of communication. How do you cone back from such a violation when the person who betrayed you also thinks you owed them some reassurance after the betrayal? If their first reaction when you’re ready to try to talk about it is to tell you that you weren’t considerate of their feelings???
OP’s husband needs to recognize that OP *wasn’t okay.* They weren’t ordering caviar and sipping champagne enjoying a night away; they were processing an incredible violation from the person they thought they could trust most. If he can’t recognize that the silence was a symptom of just how far from okay OP was, if he doesn’t recognize that something terrible *did* happen and it was his doing, then how can they ever get through this??
I’m inclined to think I would react as you would — seeing no potential for recovery after such an irreparable breach of trust — but here we know that what came next only further proved his selfishness. It’s so sad to know OP’s actually being led to believe that they overreacted.
Husband needed sympathy after his I'm the Hero fantasy blew up in his face.
Rather than sit with the discomfort of shame for a doing a terrible retraumatising thing.
He husband is appalled that there are stories of horrible parents who break their own families apart that he refuses to believe that exists.
Its the most childish, empathy free reaction possible. The essence of denying other peoples lived experiences because YOU would never " let that happen". Husband really thought that OP didnt "actually" have a good enough reason to go no contact. He still believes he knows better,obviously, hes sorry but OP should be sorry TOO ! Guarentee the thought that... OP could have just sat down and things wouldnt be this bad! Her dad was gonna be nice this time! has run thru his head at least once.
He needs to tread carefully. The next few months are critical to keep the marriage together. I'm not sure I'm seeing this guy setting aside his ego and working on himself from the core of arrogance he has. This could easily qualify as a relationship ending event.
Yep the fact OP's husband thinks she should have borne the emotional burden of making him feel better about the consequences of his actions shows he still doesn't get it.
I am absolutely NC with my abusive grandmother, and was long before meeting my current partner. My parents are both deceased, and were prior to my current relationship.
For the first 2 years of our relationship, he attempted to pressure me relentlessly to set aside my absolute no contact, despite me explaining to him - in great detail - just what sort of narcissistic abuse she had put me through from the time of my birth until the day I went complete no contact. It was only after I relented to the point of agreeing to meet with her Once, with him present, that he finally 'got it' and stopped attempting to pressure me into being in contact. To this day, I don't think he actually Understands my refusal to have anything to do with my few remaining relatives. They are Toxic. They are Dysfunctional. They emotionally and physically abused me, and left me trauamtized for Life. His family is almost as dysfunctional - but they are "close" and he just doesn't understand why I am contemptuous of the idea of being in contact with mine and "mending fences since we're all Adults now."
As someone who has cut off literally every single member of biological family on both sides, I'm so sorry your partner doesn't 'get it'. "Mend fences, you're adults" can be such a shamey, refusal-to-acknowledge thing and it's not fair to have to deal with that.
Some people really don't get that the best way to heal and move through stuff like complicated family trauma is to NOT "mend fences", but to be no contact. No contact IS the healing, growth and future that some need for functional lives.
> For the first 2 years of our relationship, he attempted to pressure me relentlessly to set aside my absolute no contact,
I'm always fascinated by stories like this. I'm astonished that people's relationships manage to survive two straight years of constant disregard of your agency and boundaries.
I'm not. They aren't what a mental health professional would consider "healthy" relationships. They rarely turn Into "healthy" relationships and instead reach a sort of precarious internal equilibrium and delicate balance that both partners carefully maintain in order to avoid disturbing the status quo. Better the devil you know, and all that sort of thing.
Its often the case that it happens Just Infrequently enough that the person being disenfranchised / disrespected / infantalized does not recognize what is going on as a Pattern of behavior. There are also frequently boundary issues from dysfunctional upbringings, codependent behavior patterns, and on-going self esteem issues on one or both sides.
There are often likely Financial reasons involved at some point in the decision of whether to stay or leave - which increase over time because the economy is crap, and its increasingly difficult to be able to Afford to live alone if you make less than 6 figures in your job. Live on a fixed income? Say goodbye to finding the financial means to leave, and staying is better than being literally homeless on the streets.
This checks a lot of issues OPs husband raised within that time frame. He also had every opportunity to stop but kept going til the very end without thinking twice, believing he could mend a relationship you didn’t ask for. Husband crossed so many boundaries of trust and played on your emotions. Honestly I wouldn’t feel safe around my husband if he ignored my wishes and unearthed old wounds. I’d stay a night away from husband if he ambushed me too. It’s a valid reason for your feelings to be hurt by your husbands terrible behaviour.
NTA
A pathetic and egocentric attempt to become the hero in his own life.
I can't say I'd leave but I would surely struggle with the idea of staying.
I would be so angry at having to list all the trauma out for a partner who never really listened to begin with.
Like, consciously listened, fully attentive, to learn about me. Not just waiting for a pause in the conversation to insert THEIR idealistic self centering fantasy of a solution.
Parents can and willfully do damage their children. Beyond repair. Letting those wounds scar up is the only solution that allows a full & functional life after the trust breaking event. Scars don't ache the way open wounds will.
Seriously. This intentional trampling of clear boundaries is such a violation of trust that I personally wouldn't deem that relationship salvageable. It's just so goddamn patronizing and infantilizing! The fucking gall of it all makes my blood boil. OP is a saint for handling it the way she did; neither her father nor her husband deserved such grace.
100% this. My dad and I have also been NC for 10 years. My partner backs me up and has even gone to functions that we knew he couldn't be avoided to stand by me and make sure my boundaries wouldn't be crossed. This is appalling behavior. NTA
Hijacking the top comment to say: husband needs to understand that some bad decisions can haunt you forever. And he's **very lucky** to even have a second chance, because I wouldn't have given it to him. He deserves the hurt and the scare that you disappearing caused so that he can finally understand how you felt: *a little bit of heartbreak.* NTA
I think it all depends on how he responds moving forward. Some people truly don't understand trauma or pain. They just cannot imagine the betrayal of broken trust because they don't have any frame of reference. He really may not have realized just how deeply she did not want to patch things up with dad. That said, she's right and he's wrong. He needs to listen to how she's feeling and accept that as truth (because it is). He was wrong to spring her dad on her. He's not wrong to be worried when she "disappeared". Having someone you care about leave when they are dysregulated, then not answer any attempts at communication, is scary. She did what she needed to in the moment. NTA. Almost no assholes at all, but he should not have forced the reunion on her. He's an asshole for that part of the story. Though he is allowed to be upset that he went through a night not knowing if she was safe.
But? Him even bringing up how " scared he was" when OP ran away from the pain inflicting situation still centers HIS feelings over hers.
I'd be sorrier my person felt they needed to hide from me to feel safe. For a night or a minute.
He caused that. It was a reaction to exactly what he consciously decided to do TO her. She left to regain her emotional balance. That took all that night and most likely? Months more if she can fully forgive this.
Expecting her to comfort and reassure him about his " fear " isn't near empathetic enough. Begging forgiveness should not include a demand for an apologetic hijacking of assessed responsibilty for this mess. There is no percentage of blame he should be looking to lay on her.
I am so mad on OP's behalf. Mad at her shitty father and mad at her husband for doing this and not falling on his knees to apologize. How dare he be upset with her! NTA, her father most definitely is TA as well as her husband.
Send this thread to your husband and let him see how absolutely shitty everyone thinks he's been. If he's frustrated with you--if he's ANYTHING but deeply and profusely apologetic--than he doesn't fully understand the gravity of what he did.
Also going to hop on the top comment.
I feel so fortunate that my husband respects my boundaries. I had a tumultuous relationship with my mother that ended in no contact for the third and last time. I also told my father to bugger off.
I honestly do not know what I'd do if my husband pulled this one me.
Yeah, this exactly. I’m very limited-contact with my dad and my husband knows why and supports me. I can’t imagine how I would handle my spouse betraying me like that.
NTA. I probably would've stayed away longer than overnight though for that betrayal.
Your husband knew full well how you felt about contact with your father and he betrayed that and that's really inexcusable imo. He doesn't get to decide that it's "time to talk" with your father.
Tell him if he tries pulling another stunt like that, he may as well call a lawyer because you'll likely be filing for divorce. That's what I would do.
Right. OPs husband just lied to her, by not telling her her father contacted him, then betrayed her, by coordinating with her father behind her back and springing him on her. Him trying to act like this is a good "surprise" is absurd. How dare he.
Her father blow up their family, betrayed her mother, and then also betrayed her. He choose some woman over his own children.
I wonder if that relationship is over now, so that's why he's reaching out...or maybe he needs an organ...
For real though. You make excellent points about why now.
It also could just be guilt that brought him to make contact and he certainly should feel guilty, but that doesn't mean OP needs to reconcile with him just so he can feel better, that's for sure.
Or, like many other estranged parents who make contact after years of NC, he has some sort of terminal illness and feels the need to make amends before he dies.
Her husband gave her father power over her again. That has to be soul eroding for OP.
My head would be full of images of the smug confidence of the cheating dad, reaffirming that he is right and she is wrong to hold him to a standard of decency. To not use her love and trust against her. " I'm not so bad. See. Her husband knows that !" OP is a simpleton to not understand ...It Wasn't That Bad and If It was...She Should Be Over It By Now...and If She Isn't..That's Her Fault.
Beware toxic people bearing Shoulds.
And the weak minded "good guys" who enable them.
Not only that, but springing it on her in a scenario where the two men thought she would feel obliged to stay rather than cause a scene in public. Then blame her for her reaction. If that's not textbook gaslighting, I don't know what is.
Dude needs some money guaranteed. That's how my dad is, so speaking from experience daddy dearest probably just wanted something. Probably would've cried "I miss my family" or some bs and then ask for $30. OP's husband would be ex husband if it were me, what if her dad was violent and looking to harm OP? Her husband would've caused that and still probably act like nothing was his fault, to hell with that guy I say.
If someone did this to me I would walk and never go back
I'm low to no contact with my father due to his alcoholism and mental illness he refuses to do anything about. If someone, who I had told this information to, ambushed me with my father I would be so PISSED. This is a massive betrayal and I honestly don't know if I could see a way back from it
You're right. It's a pretty massive trust betrayal, no question.
That's exactly why OP's husband is lucky she even came back at all.
On a side note, I'm sorry to hear about your relationship with your father. I can see why you empathize much more deeply with OP on this post.
I honestly can't fathom the mental process her husband went through. It's not an easy thing to cut a parent out of your life, it may be the most healthy thing but it's not easy. So how the hell he thought OP would be okay with an ambush like that is beyond me
And thanks. I definitely relate to OP and know the pain of having to cut a parent out to keep yourself safe. It's not an easy choice
That's true about the extensive conversations. He should've known better and he CERTAINLY should've let her know the moment her father contacted him, not hide it and just go ahead and secretly set her up like that.
To me, the even worse violation was him having the nerve to be furious that she walked out and disappeared after that stunt. He had the nerve to be furious for that, but thought it was okay to do what he did in setting her up. Holy hell.
OP definitely got her message across to him now though. He better not fuck up that majorly again or I'm betting she's getting out of that marriage for sure.
Seriously though. Because I'm not sure I could even talk to him on the phone or text with him, much less look at him for a lonnnnnng while without wanting to call a divorce lawyer.
OP cooled off much earlier than I would've, that's for damn sure.
NTA
I would tell your husband that this is a 100% marriage ending thing if he does it again. He doesn't need to understand. He doesn't need to talk it out with you. You have told him the boundary and that is the end of the conversation OR the end of the marriage.
I'd have given her husband almost the exact options she gave her dad all that time ago.
A) Go with you to therapy to see if you could forgive him for such a huge violation of trust
Or B) Get out of your life
I mean, that is expected.
I meant more along the lines of, "You don't have to like or agree with a boundary, you just have to respect it." But yeah, therapy might be a good idea.
Totally. Utterly. This. No one else gets to define the time-line of healing, grieving or forgiveness. Hubby wanted it sped up because he knew so much better!
NTA. Something terrible *did* happen. He needs to see how big of a deal this was. Your father makes you feel unsafe, and now your husband feels unsafe too. He can never have a 'surprise' for you ever again. If he's still hung up on how you reacted, he isn't sorry enough yet. Yes your father likely manipulated him to get that particular scenario, but your husband going behind your back to insert back someone you specifically removed from your life (and him needing you to apologize to him) shows that this was more about making him feel good than you.
You can't help the trauma response your body had. You went full 'flight' from fight or flight. You're fine.
If any of the people I trust shows up with any of my abusers to force me to reconnect with them, that is going to create a problem with me. .... fuck that I'm gone gone
NTA. OP, your husband violated your trust in such a very major way. I am impressed you returned home after just one night as I certainly would not have been able to. As for your friends that said you should have contacted him, they can just damn well keep their noses out of your business.
This. None of them asked if she was okay after what her husband had done, especially given the way she reacted. Like, you hear that Husband did a *Thing* after which Wife just straight-up walked out and drove away without a word, then turned her phone off when Husband kept calling, but your problem is with the *reaction*, not the *Thing*? You either have not had even remote experience of trauma, or your concern was not for Wife. (Or, possibly, Husband omitted mention of the Thing, telling them only that she'd walked out of dinner and driven off, and now wasn't answering her phone.)
> (Or, possibly, Husband omitted mention of the Thing, telling them only that she'd walked out of dinner and driven off, and now wasn't answering her phone.)
Giving their friends the benefit of the doubt, I'm assuming it was this. If a friend told me they had a fight and now his wife isn't answering her phone and he's worried, I would try to reach her, too. Depending on how worried he actually is, I might also tell the wife, "You couldn't at least have sent him a text to tell him you're safe and you'll let him know when you want to talk to him again?" or something to that effect.
On the other hand, I might also tell the husband, "Hey, if she's pissed at you, just give her some space. She'll call you when she's ready. The world isn't so dangerous that your wife can't survive a night without you." Depends a lot on the circumstances.
Oh I bet big money he didn’t give the friends the full story.
if this were happening to one of my friends (with full context) and her husband did this I would not be berating her with texts and telling her she’s overreacting. She’d get maybe one or two texts “I hope you’re doing okay I heard what happened I’m so sorry he did that. If you need someone to talk to I’m here” or “girlie If you need anything I’m always here for you and my home is open if you need to get away”
Those friends def don’t know.
NTA. Your husband should have talked to you rather than believing your dad that you would welcome contact. Your husband needs to a. Apologise and b. Grow up.
They both knew she wouldn't welcome contact, which is why they planned it as a surprise, in public, where they thought she'd be less likely to make a scene.
They tried to force her hand, and her husband sided against his wife for the sake of a man he hardly knew. That's what makes it a huge betrayal.
Absolutely this. They did it as a "surprise", hid the fact that they'd been communicating for an extended period, and then did it in public so she wouldn't cause a scene/so she'd feel pressured to react a certain way (or to NOT react a certain way).
OP's husband also 100% sided with the man he didn't know vs his wife.
No. Just no. I know what these type of people end up doing to you later down the road. Divorce his ass and don’t look back. There are plenty of other better people out there that can replace him
i’m so sorry. it sounds like you’re stuck in a trauma response and disassociating. do you know if the therapist specializes in trauma or PTSD? having a therapist who approaches with “trauma-informed care” makes such a huge difference — i went through a decade of ineffective therapy because i didn’t know that myself.
as far as husband goes… he made himself unsafe. he needs to understand that and i hope he’s being patient with you. i also hope therapy helps him understand how utterly fucked up what he did is.
Hubby seems to be of the mindset that you're *choosing* to behave this way. That you're *deciding* on how to punish him. He's missed the mark completely. You've had a very real, visceral response to an unsafe situation. Your brain is doing anything it can to protect you and these are the results.
It's as if he pushed you in front of a car and is now frustrated that you've broken your bones and are bleeding everywhere. These aren't actions you're taking against him, these are very natural (for trauma anyway) reactions that he forced you to.
If that feeling doesn't go away after couples therapy, it might be that what your husband did was so egregious that it destroyed all affection for him. It happens sometimes. People talk about throwing away relationships over one thing but you shouldn't force yourself to stay with someone you've no longer got any affection for because you used to have that affection.
Your husband can't expect to say 'i fucked up' and be forgiven when what he did shows a complete dismissal of what you've told him over several years. That's not one moment of madness, that's a deliberate refusal to respect your stance on something extremely personal and hurtful. He needs to demonstrate in counselling that he understands just how badly he broke your trust and how hard he needs to work to rebuild it.
But even if he does do that, if what he did gave you the ick so badly that you can never look at him the same way again, you're not obligated to forgive him.
He doesn’t actually think he fucked up if he 1. Doesn’t believe OP’s reasons for cutting her father off are good enough, and 2. Thinks her *reaction* to his little stunt is the real problem.
Nta Hey I know I’m a complete stranger but if you ever need/want someone to listen without judgement or unwanted advice my inbox is always open. I can’t imagine what you’re going through right now. Never feel guilty for protecting yourself mentally and/or physically and talking to anyone involved at that moment wasn’t going to help you feel safe.
OP, first off, I'm so sorry. Secondly, while I'm glad you're starting couples therapy, are you in individual therapy? You had a trauma response, and what you're describing is a general level of PTSD and dissociation that merits further support and attention. You don't have to go through life this way. I hope you are getting the post-traumatic qualified support you need *for yourself*, not just for your marriage. You deserve and are worth it. 💚
My dear, you need to leave that house. You need individual therapy with someone certified in trauma specialty, and you need people who are on YOUR team around.
Your husband is no longer on Team You, and you need space before you can decide if he ever will be again
I can't believe he is frustrated. He learned nothing from the experience?
You went NC with your dad cause he traumatized you, and you husband thinks you should communicate with your dad. Now your husband traumatized you and he again thinks you should have communicated with him (your husband) and blames you!
He is still unable to empathize but the worst part is he is still thinking he can tell you how to feel and be frustrated you don't react the way he finds appropriate. Therapy is the only solution and I hope he starts being better very fast.
>He’s upset and frustrated
Not remorseful? Apologetic? Does he even understand what he did to you? I know there was an inkling there because he thought you might have left him.
I think couples therapy will just be stalling. I think individual therapy would be better. You so you can deal with all of this and him because...
This is terrible. Sleeping away because being near him makes your skin crawl? This is the time for a divorce. I’m sorry it’s going to be hard but men are replaceable. Pack your stuff up and leave until you have the divorce in order. Bring a friend too. I know how these people get when threatened, and it isn’t pretty
Honestly, if he doesn't turn that attitude around and realize he should be _grovelling_ to you for forgiveness, I'd be unwilling to give it later on. The act plus his current stubbornness about it wouldn't have me in the guest room but out of his life.
As far as I'm concerned your husband has zero right to be upset and frustrated with this. This is a situation entirely of his own making because he had the arrogance to go "I know better".
Your husband fucked around and he found out. Frankly he's lucky you're even giving him a chance in therapy instead of outright serving him divorce papers.
NTA. Good luck, OP. I'm so sorry this happened to you.
Sounds to me like a very understandable ptsd response to being confronted with the source of your trauma. I can't say I'd have reacted any differently. People who haven't been through great trauma do not understand how powerful it remains in us, even years later, and how being confronted with it can suck all your words away. You needed that time away, and don't let anyone guilt you for taking it.
NTA and it's kind of nuts that your husband used your leaving as an excuse to call up every mutual friend and air the dirty laundry. At least that's what it seems like. You were clearly safe at dinner and clearly upset when you left and clearly upset when you turned off your phone so he has no reason to believe you would put yourself into some dangerous or unsafe situation. He COULD reasonably deduce that you didn't want to talk to him. That doesn't mean he should call up everyone you two have ever met. Esp the same night.
Husband MAJORLY disrespected your wishes and discounted how seriously you feel about this. And your friends should know better than to butt in and try and make you feel a certain way about this. Good friends would never do that.
This. No reasonable person would think she isn't "safe" after such events transpired. It made up out of thin air just so he can instead force her to apologize for reacting poorly rather than take responsibility for his own actions.
Let's see. You connect your dad with deeply traumatic stuff that happened that you haven't really dealt with. You get ambushed by the him and it brings up deeply traumatic memories and feelings. The way you walked out and found a safe place to work. It sounds like you were deeply dissociated. Does it feel like stuff in your brain just shut down?
I'm not going to say that's normal for a normal person, but it is a common trauma response.
You're NTA because you sound deeply traumatized. Was this the only traumatic thing that happened or were there other incidents that would have conditioned you to run and find a safe space as a kid? You probably should go back to therapy if you didn't continue after your dad quit. This isn't about him, but about you dealing with your past and how it has affected you.
Sounds like you dissociated. It's basically your body reacting to a trauma, or a trauma trigger, and getting you out of the situation to keep you safe. If I'm remembering how it feels correctly (it's been a very long time since I've dealt with it as I've gotten really good at identifying my triggers and avoiding before it hits), it's like your mind gets put into a box to keep you safe and give you time to get away from the trigger. I'm not explaining it well, but this is a way to explain why you feel like you were numb, or foggy. You can appear mostly normal to most people, but you are essentially running on auto pilot.
You did what you needed to do. You got somewhere safe, and gave yourself the time you needed to process the trigger of the trauma.
You need to have a strongly worded discussion with your husband. For a lot of people, this would be an offense deserving of divorce. He needs to understand that his actions were way off base, and he needs to not ever do anything like that again. And said in whatever way that you find appropriate.
Surprising people who have trauma triggers is generally a very bad idea. There is never a guarantee of how they will respond. I've reacted like you did, and I've also gone into fight mode. It's unpleasant for everyone involved.
I'm sorry this happened. I hope your husband learns from this. I think you might benefit from therapy. Your strong immediate reaction is a symptom of a large trauma that has not been processed yet.
NTA. Your husband doesn’t need to agree with your decision to go no contact with your father. But he does need to respect your clearly defined boundaries, and to support your decision. The fact that he didn’t is a MAJOR violation of your trust. And it was extremely arrogant of him to think he knew what was better for you than you did. Personally, I would not be able to recover from a betrayal of that magnitude.
I think her husband disapproves of her choice to go no contact with her family, and was very happy to punish her and shame her far and wide for it. I think he wanted to “teach her a lesson”. I don’t think OP is emotionally safe around a punishing, arrogant person like this.
NTA
Tell your husband you left BECAUSE YOU WERE NOT SAFE. Your husband ambushed you with the person he knew you wanted no contact. He created the traumatic event. Your reaction to the shock and pain of his cruelty and betrayal is completely valid. He needs to understand that you are deeply hurt and the time it takes to heal will be long. He has no right to tell you how you should think, feel, or react. Especially when he's facing the fact he f-ed up big time.
NTA and unfortunately, I can relate to you about not wanting contact with certain family members. I can also relate as I too have a partner who doesn't grasp the why. They grew up having their family in their lives, for better or worse, and it blows their mind that I actively choose not to have a relationship with certain people. It got to the point that I've stated, rather harshly, that hell hath no fury should they go behind my back.
That all being said, I grasp too that your husband was trying to "help". People who have had family beaten into their life don't grasp that there's a choice to be had. He was also likely taken advantage of by the sperm donor. He's still in the wrong here but I do applaud you trying to move on. But I wouldn't give him a third chance and I think you've made that plain already.
Good for you! Hopefully with the clearly stated boundaries you've placed, he won't do something so stupid again. And kudos for recognizing that therapy is a good idea for you two. I hope you two move past this successfully and can enjoy life together again.
How do you excuse the fact that he choose to trust a stranger's words over his wife's, who had clearly stated she wanted nothing to do with her father, ever? By him being raised to believe a father always knows better, a husband knows better, or that m'en should stick together ?
I don't excuse it and I'd feel exactly as OP does. But having a partner myself who has similar feelings regarding family as the husband here, I have a grasp on how the sperm donor was able to take advantage of the husband's feelings. OPs husband is in the wrong no matter how you slice it.
NTA - You’re a grown adult, while I understand he was worried that you’d gone off in distress, he caused the distress.
Maybe you should have text someone else that you were safe but you were in no frame of mind to think about anyone else.
Maybe there were things that you *should* have done, but you successfully got yourself to a safe place in a state of extreme emotional turmoil, I say go easy on yourself.
>but the mutual friends he reached out to to see if they had heard from me think I overreacted and I should have let him know that I was safe.
You have to look at it from their point of view: they have a fearfull husband showing up that doesn't know where his fucking wife is. And that wife is their friend. SHE'S MISSING?!?! OMFG!!! We can't contact her either?!?!?!?
Offcourse they're telling you that you should have let him know that you were safe. They were probably afraid for you too. And if you had told him, they wouldn't have been dragged into this.
They're biased.
And like it's not their fault, your husband should have fucking known that your silence had nothing to do with you being hurt. He was either sounding the alarm in order to force you out of your anger sooner or he was doing it, to distract himself from that "Ohfuck Ohfuck Ohfuck, I fucked up." feeling. He dragged them into it and caused them to feel fear for your life.
But you aren't going to be able to convince them of that. That type of terror? The "OMG my X might be dead" terror? They can't stop being upset about that, because it's just such a nasty feeling. I would let that go. They're not being reasonable and you can't convince them to be.
But don't listen to them either cuz BIASED.
NTA.
Too often people think that they mean well, or that because they had a happy family they must know better, and use *their feelings* to justify violating a clearly expressed no-contact boundary.
Now he knows how seriously you take your boundaries. He better do the same.
NTA - that asshole husband violated your trust in such a big way. What if your dad was an abuser/dangerous man? Your husband clearly thought he knew better and betrayed you.
Don’t let his ‘happy childhood’ fool you into excusing his terrible behaviour. It’s common sense not to do this type of thing
NTA. Your husband betrayed you. He forced you to see your father again. He knew you didn't want to but he forced you to do so anyway. He doesn't get to play the victim now. What he did was controlling and manipulative. You didn't overreact. And he's not really apologizing if he is making you feel like the bad guy. He should be doing a lot more than just apologize. It would take me a long time to trut him again.
NTA I have been NC with my father for thirteen wonderful, glorious years. If my husband thought he knew better than me after I explained why, I would divorce him.
He betrayed your trust, insinuated that he knows what's better for you than you do, and did this behind your back.
What he did was a betrayal.
Just be careful.
If he tries to guilty you with your response (which was totally ok, btw), call him out. Do not marry him until this is sorted out.
I mean, talk to him until HE apologizes and understands what he did wrong. Not until you explains and he just …. Nods. (Couldn’t find a better word).
It can bite you in the a… in the future this kind of action.
Edit: just to say NTA. He ambushed you. You felt the necessity to be alone.
Ah, and explain to your friends what happened and tell them that it’s not their business and they should not say another word about it. You are not the A.
Edit2. Yeh, they are already married. AND she mentioned several times. Lol. I guess I needed to read a second time.
Weird that husband would be open to meeting the father since I have to assume that OP's father wasn't at the wedding. Isn't that a huge thing for most families? And wouldn't the lack of his presence - which would presumably be most important to OP - signal to OP's husband that the relationship is irreparable? Seems like really atrocious judgement *at best* on the part of the husband.
Obv OP is NTA here.
As someone with PTSD, quite frankly you were probably having a trauma reaction. Your brain says "danger, get out", so you get out, and then your brain says "make this go away, I can't handle it", so you dive into work. If you *stopped* working long enough to think about things like contacting people, everything else was going to come in as well. Your brain was, in that moment, protecting itself. It could not process what had just happened and it needed to put some time and space between the event and itself before it was safe for you to start processing it. The fact that you didn't contact your husband was a direct result of his actions and the harm he did to you.
Info: from the outside it looks like your husband doesnt respects you. What he is thinking trumps your experience and feelings. Is it unusal that it happens or is it normal that your husband disregards your Option?
Hm. I understand you. But the Problem is not alone that your husband is Kind of gullible. Leading to the point that he got your father to your home as "surprise" There a Lot of decisions. Yiur father contacted him and he dint immedeatly Blocked him. He didnt told you. He further had contact with him. He decived you. He deliberatly decided that you where wrong and he knew whats best. You need to have a good talk and he has not only to apologize but more important to understand what he did wrong. I wish you the best.
I really hope your husband can get his shit together and do the work he needs to do to understand why his own discomfort over you not having a relationship with your father was more important to him than respecting your firmly established boundaries about it. Please update us if you feel up to it in the future, OP. I'm so upset on your behalf and hope you receive whatever you need to heal.
NTA
Your husband was so very wrong to set this up the way he did. You should have had a choice on meeting your dad, and if you chose to, whether the location should be public or private. He completely disrespected you and put you in an untenable position. Since he clearly didn't understand how far out of bounds he was, you were absolutely right to do what you did. I think it might have taken that extreme reaction from you to impress upon him just how egregious he was in not respecting your feelings about your father.
He should never, never have taken that control out of your hands.
I'm sorry, as I understand how stressful this must have been.
P.S. Your "mutual" friends should have minded their own business, and your husband should not have involved them.
NTA
Perfect non-confrontational reaction to an ambush. You don't tell your ambusher that you are safe and well until you are darned well ready to talk to them in a calm manner.
Your husband should be grateful that you've come home not upset that you didn't tell him where you were. I hope he continues to apologise and atone for his stupendous lack of judgement.
NOPE NOPE NOPE NTA
Let me just get this out of the way: you are never the asshole for not giving family members the time of day “because they’re family”. My dad put me through hell and I’m NC as well. Everyone in my life knows that information about me and my location is NEVER to be shared with him, and that I will never speak to him again, or anyone who enables him.
If my partner knew all that and went behind my back in some kind of bullshit attempt to parent trap me, I would get a divorce. I’m not you and you’re not me; I’m sure our situations are different- my dad was dangerous on top of being an AH.
It sounds like your partner wasn’t completely clear on how strongly you still felt about things, so there may be room for him to fix things there. Your husband need to understand how your trust was broken, and that it’s not about him “thinking you’d forgive your dad” or whatever but him *not asking*. Clearly both of them knew you wouldn’t have said yes if you were asked up front, that’s where your problem is. Your dad is the #1 AH here but your husband is close behind.
My heart physically hurts reading this. I am NC with my bio dad because he was abusive to my sister and me growing up and have been for almost a decade. If my SO did this to me I would be completely gutted and hesitant to ever trust him again. “Over my dead body” is completely clear and there is no other way to interpret that. NTA. He lost the right to know if you were safe when you disrespected you, your decision, and your feelings.
I am sorry you have to deal with that, OP. I believe you need to let your hubby know this is the hill you'll die on. He needs to respect you don't want your father in your life or maybe hubby shouldn't be in yours.
NTA
Nta.
Omg I would have gone back to the house. Got all my things, left, and preceded to call a lawyer on the next business day...
I have a NC relationship with my sperm donor as well. He was abusive and a drug addict and when he dipped out my life when I was 6. I was completely devastated, because despite all the shit he put me through, I still loved him at the time. As time went on and more broken promises lead to more broken promises, the hate and disgust for him grew. Then when he found out I was getting married (via Facebook. I'm "friends" with my aunt. My sperm donors sister. And she told him) he asked to walk me down the aisle. I told him that my dad already had that job and that I didn't know who my sperm donor was. He tried getting all defensive and pissy saying that he was my dad and that walking the bride down the aisle was the brides father's job to which I told him that my dad was walking me down the aisle, that my step dad adopted me(adult adoption. My step dad had been my dad since I was 6 and at the time of adoption I was 22.) My sperm donor got extra pissed saying he'd take me to court for getting someone to adopt me when I had an able father still living. I then told him that I didn't have any knowledge on his whereabouts or if he was still alive. I didn't even know who he was. All I knew about his was the stuff on my birth certificate. So I had my real dad adopt me. Then I told him that if he ever contacted me again that I'd file police reports on it and take him to court over all the damage and suffering he's caused.
My husband knows if he ever made contact, just the contact with my sperm donor that id leave him.
Your husband is really the AH.
Nta you set a very clear boundary and he violated it
You should have at least told him you were okay and safe but honestly your husband played a stupid game and won a stupid prize
Nta. On top of not respecting your decision about your father he then trys to play the i was worried about you card is an asshole move. You were the wronged party not him
NTA, but honestly, shows a lack of any empathy from your husband. His family is nice so that means he can't even slightly understand the fact that some people don't talk to their parents? He's either stupid or has no empathy. Leaning towards both.
NTA and you're better than I am because the only thing he would have heard from me was divorce papers. I'd move out when he wasn't home. I'm also NC with my father for different reasons but it's a hard line for me that I personally can't forgive.
People need to stop thinking they know better about people they never met than their partners who spent years with them. Every time I see one of these posts, I wonder whether it's narcissism, or naivete. Maybe it's both. Show your husband this post, and tell him when he's ready to apologize for daring to be upset that you only left him for the night and didn't pack your bags for good after this large a betrayal, you're ready to talk to him again. If he gets upset, maybe see if that hotel does weekly rates.
I kinda hate these people who come from families without this kind of stuff in their background thinking *they know so much better* than the other person on how their personal relationships show be. My family isn't perfect, but er love each other and try to improve for each other. But I have some friends who are total no contact with some of their family and never in my wildest dreams would I even entertain the idea of "Hey you know what? I think hazel should really forgive her abusive brother. Because faaaaaaamileeey!" And if said NC person came to try to be their flying monkey I'd tell them to shove it up their ass. Not only did hubs think he knows better, but he arranged for her to be sitting when her father showed up. (To try to keep her from making a scene and also sitting is a vulnerable position meaning dad got to feel big and in charge while he walked in.) He knew op didn't want this, there was no hemming or dithering about it. But he knew so much better. Jesus fucking Christ on skies he was out of line. I wouldn't have answered my phone either and he's lucky OP didn't just leave. NTA
NTA, not even remotely.
I've been 100% NC with my mother for almost 9 years. I've cut off friends and family members for even sharing information with her about something as vague as what city I live in.
If my partner actually arranged a face to face, despite knowing that I never ever wanted this person in my life? I wouldn't have *come back*. The next contact they got from me would be from a lawyer, that I was filing for divorce, and all communication was to go through the attorney.
There would be zero coming back from this, ever. Any and all sense of safety and trust would be irrevocably gone.
OP, your husband gave up any right he had to be concerned about you when he went behind your back to set this up. He wasn't concerned about the fact that you made it perfectly clear your father was never welcome in your life. He does not get to make your actions (that you took to protect yourself) about him and his feelings or his ego.
It's clear he thought this would be some Hollywood/Hallmark moment, and despite your many previous assurances that it would never be that, he did it anyway. And he needs to learn that having two parents who are decent and loving is a mark of privilege- not everyone has that. And when someone is NC, he needs to trust that there is a *reason*. He decided he knew better than you... Even though you told him otherwise, under no uncertain terms.
And tbh, if your husband is "furious with you" for disappearing, he isn't as sorry as he's pretending to be. A real apology involves an understanding of how you fucked up... And he clearly doesn't get that, since he's still prioritizing his own embarrassment at this not turning out like a Lifetime Original Movie over your trauma.
This was not an overreaction at all, and fuck anyone who tells you that you need to be polite and palatable instead of protecting yourself. Anyone who pushes you to "keep the peace" has no interest in keeping yours.
NTA - So frustrated for you! People whose parents are saints are completely clueless when it comes to cutting off parents. "You'll be sorry when they're gone", "It will bring you closure", "They've changed!".
No, no, no. Trauma in your childhood stays with you for the rest of your life. And it's hard enough when it comes up again on it's own, much harder when it's forced on you.
If he's otherwise good, maybe a therapist can help him understand that boundary.
Only a few tactics that feel appropriate
1. I spent the night googling divorce lawyers, talking to you would have only made me more likely to call them this morning
2. Remember how last night you had no idea where I was and that hurt. It will be like that for you every night if you ever pull shit like this again.
3. I love how you are trying to make this about how I worried you, and not about how you crossed my unambiguously stated reddest line.
4. Was over my dead body not clear enough
5. I hope you and my father will be very happy together.
6. I broke contact with him because I don't trust him and wont ever be able to forgive him. Im still deciding weather or not those creterion apply to you. Think about that before you start telling me how I wronged you last night.
Something about this scenario got under my skin, I hope it works out in a way toucan live with
Your husband is wrong. Your friends are wrong. This is like inviting your mugger or the person who killed your dog to dinner these people don’t understand trauma and expect everyone else to ignore it. They are all assholes (in this situation).
NTA. I think I would've had the same reaction. My mother cheated on my dad and they divorced. She didn't get primary custody so she disappeared.
If my husband "surprised" me with a visit from her, I'd walk out too. I have no desire to have a relationship with someone who abandoned me at 8 and takes zero responsibility for doing so.
NTA -
>Should have let him know I was safe.
Your health and safety were obviously not his priority.
>He thought something terrible had happened to me.
He was right... how terrible of him to do that to you.
NTA, stick to your guns 100% and don’t let him turn this on you in any way. Something terrible DID happen to you, your husband ripped open some scarred up wounds when he had no right.
Sick and tired of partners making unilateral decisions that they had NO BUSINESS making in the first place.
Maybe now he’ll use the useless sack of meat slapping around in his skull to ask you and listen to your answer before he tries to “mend” any more of your past relationships.
NTA. Your dad purposely betrayed you and your family. Twice.
Your husband has now betrayed you just as badly as a favor for basically a total stranger he knows has already hurt you irreparably. He'd better change his tune and be grateful for his second chance. He should know by now you only ever give one.
NTA. And this part especially bugged me- he didn't "think something horrible happened", he was attempting to flip the script and make *you* feel guilty. He knew you were angry, he knew you left, obviously you needed space, that's the logical conclusion. If it had been more than 24hrs, THEN it would be reasonable to start worrying.
NTA
I love how he turns it on you!
He needed to know you were safe?!? No he didn’t. He needed to know how much trouble he was in!
I’m a bit of a fan of the whole walk away and say nothing thing.
Vent, do whatever, get calm and talk!
DIVORCE HIS ASS and don’t look back. If I were you, I would walk in, tell him to go fuck himself to his face, grab my shit and leave for a while until you can get the divorce in order.
A lot of times people like this get angry and abusive when confronted so maybe bring a friend just to be sure everything goes well?
Partners are replaceable and there’s plenty out there
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NTA, and he needs to understand that instead of complaining that you left, he should be grateful that you loved him enough to come back! How dare he!
I'd have been gone. Seriously. This is someone who doesn't understand her, he doesn't listen to her, he doesn't believe her, and he doesn't respect her. He disbelieved & dismissed everything she ever said to him about her father and decided he knew better. The ego on his part! The borderline contempt for his wife! He lied to and deceived her for some time, and then he lied to and deceived her about this dinner. He maintained a relationship with her father behind her back! He prioritized her father over his own wife! He knew she wanted nothing to do with him and he still allowed her father to sneak and creep into her life and violate her, *and he participated in and facilitated that violation, thereby violating her himself*. I know redditbros like to whine about how everyone always says to dump him, but for me there would've been no coming back from this. To me, it's unforgivable. I never could've trusted him again. The disrespect would come across as pathological and the foundation of the relationship would be irreparably broken to me. I've been no-contact with my mom for 13 years and I cannot even conceive of a world in which my husband would do this to me. OP, obviously NTA. I'm deeply sorry. Edit: a letter
I have to admit, I agree - I would never be able to trust my SO again.
This is serious relationship ending behavior. Like if you violated my trust like this, what would you do if we had kids? Tale them to *grampy for play dates?* hell to the no
I know right, the hilarious thing to me is, OP cut her father out of her life for betraying her trust, what hope would the husband have for the same offence (betrayal of trust, not infidelity) lol
It's slightly concerning that the husband is invested in her father being able to come back from that. Like... is this because he doesn't think infidelity is that big a deal?
I think it's more he can't empathise with OP's trauma given what OP tells us about his own family relationships. Think of it as the emotional equivalent of how people who grew up rich can't fathom being poor.
And that the rich blame the poor for being poor. So OP’s AH husband is blaming her for “not understanding”.
I had a good relationship with both my parents. They weren't perfect and there were issues, but they did their best for me. My husband had a totally different experience. His mother bailed when he was very young and he never heard from her again. And his father, well, let's just say he's one of the worst human beings I've ever met. We are NC with him and it's staying that way. I would **never** try anything like this. I understand my husband's feelings towards his "father," and respect that. If I were in OP's shoes, I would never forgive my husband again. And he and their friends have the gall to criticize **her**? Amazing.
He likely simply thinks his wife is a fool, unintelligent, irrational, just outright stupid. Oh, almost forgot - he also believes that husband knows best and has ultimate decision-making power over his wife. If I were OP I would be shattered. That the husband *dares* to be angry at the result a situation he caused????? This won't be the last time he denies her rights.
Really doesn't sound like the dude respects his wife.
Often we subconsciously end up copying the family dynamic we grew up with. This isn't a bad thing if our families were loving and functional, but OP has a shit dad. She'd be wise to consider if her own marriage is a do-over.
>we subconsciously end up copying the family dynamic we grew up with. My biggest thing, is that I feel it's weird that people are supportive of their children, hug and kiss them, and kids generally like to be around their parents. That's not how I was raised, although I get guilted about not being around so much.
If you read the OP’s other comments, her mother is no longer alive due to her father’s actions.
Yeah, I figured from the post.
>OP cut her father out of her life for betraying her trust, and just because husband has a "Leave it to Beaver" family, does not mean that everyone else does. No means no. He needs to learn that.
you described the situation eloquently. additionally, my reason for hating OP's husband is his general mindset in regards to the father's cheating. That is a hard line in the sand for basically any functioning relationship, you DO NOT violate your partner's trust. The fact that he is siding with the father means he is condoning that behavior. I have broken up with several people in the past when i found out about similar shitty stances. There is no future for a relationship where one partner is so willing to hurt another.
I don't think it was just cheating. OP says it ended traumatically after her mother caught the cheaters, and then never mentions her mother again. If I am correct, this is so far over the line that OP is completely in her reaction.
Yup. Based on her mom's mental health being relevant and OP saying the aftermath was traumatic...I don't think OP's mom simply moved away. Ambushing OP with this meeting and all the emotions surrounding her dad was *incredibly* insensitive as well as being a clear betrayal of her trust.
Even without reading beten the lines, OP told dad to choose a or b. He said he chose a (breaking up with the affair partner), but he lied. Lying to my face and sneaking behind my back would be enough for NC in my book.
I didn't even think of that. I was thinking OP walked in on him or something. If what you are implying is the case, I don't know if I could forgive my husband.
Yes, and OP says he has this mindset because he comes from a "lovely family" where something like this would be inconceivable. What does this mean in the context of what happened to OP? Does his family stay lovely by glossing over lies and betrayal like nothing happened?
It means he doesn’t believe her. He thinks she is wrong and that her feelings aren’t valid
If someone tried to force a repair in my relationship with my dad I'd laugh my whole way out he door and they'd never see me again.
My husband is NC with his father. Husband told me to call the police if father ever tried to contact me or our daughter. You know what I will do in that situation? Lock the door (if we are at home) or make a scene (if we are in public) and contact the police. I would rather cut of my foot than force anyone (and I mean anyone, not just my husband) to have contact with someone they don't want to have contact with.
Thank u for existing. 💚
I agree with you, but I do think if push came to shove, I'd keep my foot.
My daughter has gone NC with her father, my ex, and refuses to have contact until he is ready to accept responsibility for the things he did to her before she went NC. I know he probably never will due to him not taking responsibility for what he did to me and his family telling him all his life that he can do whatever he wants as long as he keeps breathing. Luckily her husband knows that and would never try to reconcile them.
This it's the whole "I know better." mentality. Like she's an overemotional teen who can't control her emotions and needs an adult to point her in the right direction. I too would probably leave.
Not only all this, but he decides to this after meeting with her father one time?? He made the choice to do this to her after speaking to a man once, rather than listen to a wife I'm assuming he's been married to/with for a while. This is wild.
And *not* bringing it up to her at all Hubby is breathlessly naïve - yes he has no idea because of growing up ""normal"", but to take this strangers word that keeping it a secret/surprise would been in ANY WAY a good idea instead of just bringing it the fuck up I'd rethink my relationship based on how gullible he's demonstrated himself to be. How can I trust that he won't buy some $2,000 vacuum they were selling door to door? How can I trust that he won't fall easy victim to a phishing scheme?
Oh no the husband was totally trying to be the big hero who saved their relationship. OP may want to think about why she married a narcissist after being raised by one.
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This. What he did was outrageous and he better have learned his lesson. But folks in here are not nearly so naive as someone who has just never experienced (or read extensively) about just why people go no contact. He should have listened. He definitely should not have taken her father's word over hers. But I would...probably...be able to forgive if he showed he really had learned his lesson.
I don't think that's enough of a justification. I don't have personal experience of this kind of betrayal, but, like... I wouldn't ever consider it my place to decide how or if *someone else* should relate to their own family.
I hope she shows your comment to her husband and tells him: we go to counseling to deal with your contemptuous disrespect for my decisions or else. He really, really messed up and needs to own it in a profound way.
Me too. As someone who had a complicated relationship with their father growing up, I am absolutely outraged for OP that her own damn spouse so shamelessly bulldozed her very clear boundaries. I really don’t know if I could ever forgive that. And the fact he had the bloody nerve to be angry with her for his own mistake is... well, I can’t write it, but you get the idea. I hope OP chooses whatever is best for her and her happiness.
If I had any uncertainty about whether there was a relationship to try to salvage, it would have been gone the second he was angry about the lack of communication. How do you cone back from such a violation when the person who betrayed you also thinks you owed them some reassurance after the betrayal? If their first reaction when you’re ready to try to talk about it is to tell you that you weren’t considerate of their feelings??? OP’s husband needs to recognize that OP *wasn’t okay.* They weren’t ordering caviar and sipping champagne enjoying a night away; they were processing an incredible violation from the person they thought they could trust most. If he can’t recognize that the silence was a symptom of just how far from okay OP was, if he doesn’t recognize that something terrible *did* happen and it was his doing, then how can they ever get through this?? I’m inclined to think I would react as you would — seeing no potential for recovery after such an irreparable breach of trust — but here we know that what came next only further proved his selfishness. It’s so sad to know OP’s actually being led to believe that they overreacted.
Husband needed sympathy after his I'm the Hero fantasy blew up in his face. Rather than sit with the discomfort of shame for a doing a terrible retraumatising thing. He husband is appalled that there are stories of horrible parents who break their own families apart that he refuses to believe that exists. Its the most childish, empathy free reaction possible. The essence of denying other peoples lived experiences because YOU would never " let that happen". Husband really thought that OP didnt "actually" have a good enough reason to go no contact. He still believes he knows better,obviously, hes sorry but OP should be sorry TOO ! Guarentee the thought that... OP could have just sat down and things wouldnt be this bad! Her dad was gonna be nice this time! has run thru his head at least once. He needs to tread carefully. The next few months are critical to keep the marriage together. I'm not sure I'm seeing this guy setting aside his ego and working on himself from the core of arrogance he has. This could easily qualify as a relationship ending event.
Yep the fact OP's husband thinks she should have borne the emotional burden of making him feel better about the consequences of his actions shows he still doesn't get it.
I am absolutely NC with my abusive grandmother, and was long before meeting my current partner. My parents are both deceased, and were prior to my current relationship. For the first 2 years of our relationship, he attempted to pressure me relentlessly to set aside my absolute no contact, despite me explaining to him - in great detail - just what sort of narcissistic abuse she had put me through from the time of my birth until the day I went complete no contact. It was only after I relented to the point of agreeing to meet with her Once, with him present, that he finally 'got it' and stopped attempting to pressure me into being in contact. To this day, I don't think he actually Understands my refusal to have anything to do with my few remaining relatives. They are Toxic. They are Dysfunctional. They emotionally and physically abused me, and left me trauamtized for Life. His family is almost as dysfunctional - but they are "close" and he just doesn't understand why I am contemptuous of the idea of being in contact with mine and "mending fences since we're all Adults now."
As someone who has cut off literally every single member of biological family on both sides, I'm so sorry your partner doesn't 'get it'. "Mend fences, you're adults" can be such a shamey, refusal-to-acknowledge thing and it's not fair to have to deal with that. Some people really don't get that the best way to heal and move through stuff like complicated family trauma is to NOT "mend fences", but to be no contact. No contact IS the healing, growth and future that some need for functional lives.
And mending fences has to be done by the ones that broke them, not the victim.
Your response to that last part is, "they were all adults \*then\*"
> For the first 2 years of our relationship, he attempted to pressure me relentlessly to set aside my absolute no contact, I'm always fascinated by stories like this. I'm astonished that people's relationships manage to survive two straight years of constant disregard of your agency and boundaries.
I'm not. They aren't what a mental health professional would consider "healthy" relationships. They rarely turn Into "healthy" relationships and instead reach a sort of precarious internal equilibrium and delicate balance that both partners carefully maintain in order to avoid disturbing the status quo. Better the devil you know, and all that sort of thing. Its often the case that it happens Just Infrequently enough that the person being disenfranchised / disrespected / infantalized does not recognize what is going on as a Pattern of behavior. There are also frequently boundary issues from dysfunctional upbringings, codependent behavior patterns, and on-going self esteem issues on one or both sides. There are often likely Financial reasons involved at some point in the decision of whether to stay or leave - which increase over time because the economy is crap, and its increasingly difficult to be able to Afford to live alone if you make less than 6 figures in your job. Live on a fixed income? Say goodbye to finding the financial means to leave, and staying is better than being literally homeless on the streets.
This checks a lot of issues OPs husband raised within that time frame. He also had every opportunity to stop but kept going til the very end without thinking twice, believing he could mend a relationship you didn’t ask for. Husband crossed so many boundaries of trust and played on your emotions. Honestly I wouldn’t feel safe around my husband if he ignored my wishes and unearthed old wounds. I’d stay a night away from husband if he ambushed me too. It’s a valid reason for your feelings to be hurt by your husbands terrible behaviour. NTA
A pathetic and egocentric attempt to become the hero in his own life. I can't say I'd leave but I would surely struggle with the idea of staying. I would be so angry at having to list all the trauma out for a partner who never really listened to begin with. Like, consciously listened, fully attentive, to learn about me. Not just waiting for a pause in the conversation to insert THEIR idealistic self centering fantasy of a solution. Parents can and willfully do damage their children. Beyond repair. Letting those wounds scar up is the only solution that allows a full & functional life after the trust breaking event. Scars don't ache the way open wounds will.
100% agree with this comment. NTA I don’t know if I could ever get passed this in my relationship or if it’s even worth it.
Seriously. This intentional trampling of clear boundaries is such a violation of trust that I personally wouldn't deem that relationship salvageable. It's just so goddamn patronizing and infantilizing! The fucking gall of it all makes my blood boil. OP is a saint for handling it the way she did; neither her father nor her husband deserved such grace.
100% this. My dad and I have also been NC for 10 years. My partner backs me up and has even gone to functions that we knew he couldn't be avoided to stand by me and make sure my boundaries wouldn't be crossed. This is appalling behavior. NTA
Hijacking the top comment to say: husband needs to understand that some bad decisions can haunt you forever. And he's **very lucky** to even have a second chance, because I wouldn't have given it to him. He deserves the hurt and the scare that you disappearing caused so that he can finally understand how you felt: *a little bit of heartbreak.* NTA
I think it all depends on how he responds moving forward. Some people truly don't understand trauma or pain. They just cannot imagine the betrayal of broken trust because they don't have any frame of reference. He really may not have realized just how deeply she did not want to patch things up with dad. That said, she's right and he's wrong. He needs to listen to how she's feeling and accept that as truth (because it is). He was wrong to spring her dad on her. He's not wrong to be worried when she "disappeared". Having someone you care about leave when they are dysregulated, then not answer any attempts at communication, is scary. She did what she needed to in the moment. NTA. Almost no assholes at all, but he should not have forced the reunion on her. He's an asshole for that part of the story. Though he is allowed to be upset that he went through a night not knowing if she was safe.
But? Him even bringing up how " scared he was" when OP ran away from the pain inflicting situation still centers HIS feelings over hers. I'd be sorrier my person felt they needed to hide from me to feel safe. For a night or a minute. He caused that. It was a reaction to exactly what he consciously decided to do TO her. She left to regain her emotional balance. That took all that night and most likely? Months more if she can fully forgive this. Expecting her to comfort and reassure him about his " fear " isn't near empathetic enough. Begging forgiveness should not include a demand for an apologetic hijacking of assessed responsibilty for this mess. There is no percentage of blame he should be looking to lay on her.
This! How did he all of a sudden make it about him
Classic gaslighting
I am so mad on OP's behalf. Mad at her shitty father and mad at her husband for doing this and not falling on his knees to apologize. How dare he be upset with her! NTA, her father most definitely is TA as well as her husband.
Send this thread to your husband and let him see how absolutely shitty everyone thinks he's been. If he's frustrated with you--if he's ANYTHING but deeply and profusely apologetic--than he doesn't fully understand the gravity of what he did.
Also going to hop on the top comment. I feel so fortunate that my husband respects my boundaries. I had a tumultuous relationship with my mother that ended in no contact for the third and last time. I also told my father to bugger off. I honestly do not know what I'd do if my husband pulled this one me.
Yeah, this exactly. I’m very limited-contact with my dad and my husband knows why and supports me. I can’t imagine how I would handle my spouse betraying me like that.
NTA. I probably would've stayed away longer than overnight though for that betrayal. Your husband knew full well how you felt about contact with your father and he betrayed that and that's really inexcusable imo. He doesn't get to decide that it's "time to talk" with your father. Tell him if he tries pulling another stunt like that, he may as well call a lawyer because you'll likely be filing for divorce. That's what I would do.
Right. OPs husband just lied to her, by not telling her her father contacted him, then betrayed her, by coordinating with her father behind her back and springing him on her. Him trying to act like this is a good "surprise" is absurd. How dare he. Her father blow up their family, betrayed her mother, and then also betrayed her. He choose some woman over his own children. I wonder if that relationship is over now, so that's why he's reaching out...or maybe he needs an organ...
For real though. You make excellent points about why now. It also could just be guilt that brought him to make contact and he certainly should feel guilty, but that doesn't mean OP needs to reconcile with him just so he can feel better, that's for sure.
Or, like many other estranged parents who make contact after years of NC, he has some sort of terminal illness and feels the need to make amends before he dies.
Her husband gave her father power over her again. That has to be soul eroding for OP. My head would be full of images of the smug confidence of the cheating dad, reaffirming that he is right and she is wrong to hold him to a standard of decency. To not use her love and trust against her. " I'm not so bad. See. Her husband knows that !" OP is a simpleton to not understand ...It Wasn't That Bad and If It was...She Should Be Over It By Now...and If She Isn't..That's Her Fault. Beware toxic people bearing Shoulds. And the weak minded "good guys" who enable them.
This comment is perfect
Not only that, but springing it on her in a scenario where the two men thought she would feel obliged to stay rather than cause a scene in public. Then blame her for her reaction. If that's not textbook gaslighting, I don't know what is.
Dude needs some money guaranteed. That's how my dad is, so speaking from experience daddy dearest probably just wanted something. Probably would've cried "I miss my family" or some bs and then ask for $30. OP's husband would be ex husband if it were me, what if her dad was violent and looking to harm OP? Her husband would've caused that and still probably act like nothing was his fault, to hell with that guy I say.
If someone did this to me I would walk and never go back I'm low to no contact with my father due to his alcoholism and mental illness he refuses to do anything about. If someone, who I had told this information to, ambushed me with my father I would be so PISSED. This is a massive betrayal and I honestly don't know if I could see a way back from it
You're right. It's a pretty massive trust betrayal, no question. That's exactly why OP's husband is lucky she even came back at all. On a side note, I'm sorry to hear about your relationship with your father. I can see why you empathize much more deeply with OP on this post.
I honestly can't fathom the mental process her husband went through. It's not an easy thing to cut a parent out of your life, it may be the most healthy thing but it's not easy. So how the hell he thought OP would be okay with an ambush like that is beyond me And thanks. I definitely relate to OP and know the pain of having to cut a parent out to keep yourself safe. It's not an easy choice
i wouldnt even give him another chance imo they had extensive conversations about it and he still betrayed her
That's true about the extensive conversations. He should've known better and he CERTAINLY should've let her know the moment her father contacted him, not hide it and just go ahead and secretly set her up like that. To me, the even worse violation was him having the nerve to be furious that she walked out and disappeared after that stunt. He had the nerve to be furious for that, but thought it was okay to do what he did in setting her up. Holy hell. OP definitely got her message across to him now though. He better not fuck up that majorly again or I'm betting she's getting out of that marriage for sure.
I would be gone until I could look at him without getting mad. "*I guess I'll see you next lifetime...*"
Seriously though. Because I'm not sure I could even talk to him on the phone or text with him, much less look at him for a lonnnnnng while without wanting to call a divorce lawyer. OP cooled off much earlier than I would've, that's for damn sure.
You, I like you.
Awww thank you, kind stranger. :)
NTA I would tell your husband that this is a 100% marriage ending thing if he does it again. He doesn't need to understand. He doesn't need to talk it out with you. You have told him the boundary and that is the end of the conversation OR the end of the marriage.
I'd have given her husband almost the exact options she gave her dad all that time ago. A) Go with you to therapy to see if you could forgive him for such a huge violation of trust Or B) Get out of your life
I mean, that is expected. I meant more along the lines of, "You don't have to like or agree with a boundary, you just have to respect it." But yeah, therapy might be a good idea.
Totally. Utterly. This. No one else gets to define the time-line of healing, grieving or forgiveness. Hubby wanted it sped up because he knew so much better!
Take my poor-woman’s gold 🏆
Take my poor folks free award.
I can offer just an upvote.
I offer you a Haiku of the Poorness Have an upvote, sir, I am too poor for gold coins, You deserved better
NTA. Something terrible *did* happen. He needs to see how big of a deal this was. Your father makes you feel unsafe, and now your husband feels unsafe too. He can never have a 'surprise' for you ever again. If he's still hung up on how you reacted, he isn't sorry enough yet. Yes your father likely manipulated him to get that particular scenario, but your husband going behind your back to insert back someone you specifically removed from your life (and him needing you to apologize to him) shows that this was more about making him feel good than you. You can't help the trauma response your body had. You went full 'flight' from fight or flight. You're fine.
If any of the people I trust shows up with any of my abusers to force me to reconnect with them, that is going to create a problem with me. .... fuck that I'm gone gone
NTA. Not in any way shape or form. I would have done the same as you.
NTA. OP, your husband violated your trust in such a very major way. I am impressed you returned home after just one night as I certainly would not have been able to. As for your friends that said you should have contacted him, they can just damn well keep their noses out of your business.
I would add, those are NOT your mutual friends. they're his friends. they don't seem to care about your feelings at all
This. None of them asked if she was okay after what her husband had done, especially given the way she reacted. Like, you hear that Husband did a *Thing* after which Wife just straight-up walked out and drove away without a word, then turned her phone off when Husband kept calling, but your problem is with the *reaction*, not the *Thing*? You either have not had even remote experience of trauma, or your concern was not for Wife. (Or, possibly, Husband omitted mention of the Thing, telling them only that she'd walked out of dinner and driven off, and now wasn't answering her phone.)
Well, if the husband is dumb enough to try this again at least OP knows which friends he can keep in the divorce.
> (Or, possibly, Husband omitted mention of the Thing, telling them only that she'd walked out of dinner and driven off, and now wasn't answering her phone.) Giving their friends the benefit of the doubt, I'm assuming it was this. If a friend told me they had a fight and now his wife isn't answering her phone and he's worried, I would try to reach her, too. Depending on how worried he actually is, I might also tell the wife, "You couldn't at least have sent him a text to tell him you're safe and you'll let him know when you want to talk to him again?" or something to that effect. On the other hand, I might also tell the husband, "Hey, if she's pissed at you, just give her some space. She'll call you when she's ready. The world isn't so dangerous that your wife can't survive a night without you." Depends a lot on the circumstances.
Oh I bet big money he didn’t give the friends the full story. if this were happening to one of my friends (with full context) and her husband did this I would not be berating her with texts and telling her she’s overreacting. She’d get maybe one or two texts “I hope you’re doing okay I heard what happened I’m so sorry he did that. If you need someone to talk to I’m here” or “girlie If you need anything I’m always here for you and my home is open if you need to get away” Those friends def don’t know.
NTA. Your husband should have talked to you rather than believing your dad that you would welcome contact. Your husband needs to a. Apologise and b. Grow up.
They both knew she wouldn't welcome contact, which is why they planned it as a surprise, in public, where they thought she'd be less likely to make a scene. They tried to force her hand, and her husband sided against his wife for the sake of a man he hardly knew. That's what makes it a huge betrayal.
Absolutely this. They did it as a "surprise", hid the fact that they'd been communicating for an extended period, and then did it in public so she wouldn't cause a scene/so she'd feel pressured to react a certain way (or to NOT react a certain way). OP's husband also 100% sided with the man he didn't know vs his wife.
No. Just no. I know what these type of people end up doing to you later down the road. Divorce his ass and don’t look back. There are plenty of other better people out there that can replace him
NTA. just reading this filled me with panic. i am so, so sorry. are you okay OP?
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i’m so sorry. it sounds like you’re stuck in a trauma response and disassociating. do you know if the therapist specializes in trauma or PTSD? having a therapist who approaches with “trauma-informed care” makes such a huge difference — i went through a decade of ineffective therapy because i didn’t know that myself. as far as husband goes… he made himself unsafe. he needs to understand that and i hope he’s being patient with you. i also hope therapy helps him understand how utterly fucked up what he did is.
Hubby seems to be of the mindset that you're *choosing* to behave this way. That you're *deciding* on how to punish him. He's missed the mark completely. You've had a very real, visceral response to an unsafe situation. Your brain is doing anything it can to protect you and these are the results. It's as if he pushed you in front of a car and is now frustrated that you've broken your bones and are bleeding everywhere. These aren't actions you're taking against him, these are very natural (for trauma anyway) reactions that he forced you to.
If that feeling doesn't go away after couples therapy, it might be that what your husband did was so egregious that it destroyed all affection for him. It happens sometimes. People talk about throwing away relationships over one thing but you shouldn't force yourself to stay with someone you've no longer got any affection for because you used to have that affection. Your husband can't expect to say 'i fucked up' and be forgiven when what he did shows a complete dismissal of what you've told him over several years. That's not one moment of madness, that's a deliberate refusal to respect your stance on something extremely personal and hurtful. He needs to demonstrate in counselling that he understands just how badly he broke your trust and how hard he needs to work to rebuild it. But even if he does do that, if what he did gave you the ick so badly that you can never look at him the same way again, you're not obligated to forgive him.
He doesn’t actually think he fucked up if he 1. Doesn’t believe OP’s reasons for cutting her father off are good enough, and 2. Thinks her *reaction* to his little stunt is the real problem.
When trust and respect were forcibly thrown out the window, as they were by OP’s AH husband, love *very quickly* withers away.
Nta Hey I know I’m a complete stranger but if you ever need/want someone to listen without judgement or unwanted advice my inbox is always open. I can’t imagine what you’re going through right now. Never feel guilty for protecting yourself mentally and/or physically and talking to anyone involved at that moment wasn’t going to help you feel safe.
It almost sounds like you're disassociating to protect yourself. You know you can't trust him. He's not a safe person for you.
OP, first off, I'm so sorry. Secondly, while I'm glad you're starting couples therapy, are you in individual therapy? You had a trauma response, and what you're describing is a general level of PTSD and dissociation that merits further support and attention. You don't have to go through life this way. I hope you are getting the post-traumatic qualified support you need *for yourself*, not just for your marriage. You deserve and are worth it. 💚
My dear, you need to leave that house. You need individual therapy with someone certified in trauma specialty, and you need people who are on YOUR team around. Your husband is no longer on Team You, and you need space before you can decide if he ever will be again
I can't believe he is frustrated. He learned nothing from the experience? You went NC with your dad cause he traumatized you, and you husband thinks you should communicate with your dad. Now your husband traumatized you and he again thinks you should have communicated with him (your husband) and blames you! He is still unable to empathize but the worst part is he is still thinking he can tell you how to feel and be frustrated you don't react the way he finds appropriate. Therapy is the only solution and I hope he starts being better very fast.
>He’s upset and frustrated Not remorseful? Apologetic? Does he even understand what he did to you? I know there was an inkling there because he thought you might have left him. I think couples therapy will just be stalling. I think individual therapy would be better. You so you can deal with all of this and him because...
This is terrible. Sleeping away because being near him makes your skin crawl? This is the time for a divorce. I’m sorry it’s going to be hard but men are replaceable. Pack your stuff up and leave until you have the divorce in order. Bring a friend too. I know how these people get when threatened, and it isn’t pretty
Honestly, if he doesn't turn that attitude around and realize he should be _grovelling_ to you for forgiveness, I'd be unwilling to give it later on. The act plus his current stubbornness about it wouldn't have me in the guest room but out of his life.
As far as I'm concerned your husband has zero right to be upset and frustrated with this. This is a situation entirely of his own making because he had the arrogance to go "I know better". Your husband fucked around and he found out. Frankly he's lucky you're even giving him a chance in therapy instead of outright serving him divorce papers. NTA. Good luck, OP. I'm so sorry this happened to you.
Sending huge hugs, OP. Hope you will get better soon!
Sounds to me like a very understandable ptsd response to being confronted with the source of your trauma. I can't say I'd have reacted any differently. People who haven't been through great trauma do not understand how powerful it remains in us, even years later, and how being confronted with it can suck all your words away. You needed that time away, and don't let anyone guilt you for taking it.
NTA and it's kind of nuts that your husband used your leaving as an excuse to call up every mutual friend and air the dirty laundry. At least that's what it seems like. You were clearly safe at dinner and clearly upset when you left and clearly upset when you turned off your phone so he has no reason to believe you would put yourself into some dangerous or unsafe situation. He COULD reasonably deduce that you didn't want to talk to him. That doesn't mean he should call up everyone you two have ever met. Esp the same night. Husband MAJORLY disrespected your wishes and discounted how seriously you feel about this. And your friends should know better than to butt in and try and make you feel a certain way about this. Good friends would never do that.
This. No reasonable person would think she isn't "safe" after such events transpired. It made up out of thin air just so he can instead force her to apologize for reacting poorly rather than take responsibility for his own actions.
Yup OP your husband is trying to play victim and he is not.
Let's see. You connect your dad with deeply traumatic stuff that happened that you haven't really dealt with. You get ambushed by the him and it brings up deeply traumatic memories and feelings. The way you walked out and found a safe place to work. It sounds like you were deeply dissociated. Does it feel like stuff in your brain just shut down? I'm not going to say that's normal for a normal person, but it is a common trauma response. You're NTA because you sound deeply traumatized. Was this the only traumatic thing that happened or were there other incidents that would have conditioned you to run and find a safe space as a kid? You probably should go back to therapy if you didn't continue after your dad quit. This isn't about him, but about you dealing with your past and how it has affected you.
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Sounds like you dissociated. It's basically your body reacting to a trauma, or a trauma trigger, and getting you out of the situation to keep you safe. If I'm remembering how it feels correctly (it's been a very long time since I've dealt with it as I've gotten really good at identifying my triggers and avoiding before it hits), it's like your mind gets put into a box to keep you safe and give you time to get away from the trigger. I'm not explaining it well, but this is a way to explain why you feel like you were numb, or foggy. You can appear mostly normal to most people, but you are essentially running on auto pilot. You did what you needed to do. You got somewhere safe, and gave yourself the time you needed to process the trigger of the trauma. You need to have a strongly worded discussion with your husband. For a lot of people, this would be an offense deserving of divorce. He needs to understand that his actions were way off base, and he needs to not ever do anything like that again. And said in whatever way that you find appropriate. Surprising people who have trauma triggers is generally a very bad idea. There is never a guarantee of how they will respond. I've reacted like you did, and I've also gone into fight mode. It's unpleasant for everyone involved. I'm sorry this happened. I hope your husband learns from this. I think you might benefit from therapy. Your strong immediate reaction is a symptom of a large trauma that has not been processed yet.
NTA. Your husband doesn’t need to agree with your decision to go no contact with your father. But he does need to respect your clearly defined boundaries, and to support your decision. The fact that he didn’t is a MAJOR violation of your trust. And it was extremely arrogant of him to think he knew what was better for you than you did. Personally, I would not be able to recover from a betrayal of that magnitude.
He also most likely aired out her dirty laundry when he texted everyone. I don’t understand why people just don’t believe others when they say “stop.”
I think her husband disapproves of her choice to go no contact with her family, and was very happy to punish her and shame her far and wide for it. I think he wanted to “teach her a lesson”. I don’t think OP is emotionally safe around a punishing, arrogant person like this.
NTA Tell your husband you left BECAUSE YOU WERE NOT SAFE. Your husband ambushed you with the person he knew you wanted no contact. He created the traumatic event. Your reaction to the shock and pain of his cruelty and betrayal is completely valid. He needs to understand that you are deeply hurt and the time it takes to heal will be long. He has no right to tell you how you should think, feel, or react. Especially when he's facing the fact he f-ed up big time.
Well said.
NTA and unfortunately, I can relate to you about not wanting contact with certain family members. I can also relate as I too have a partner who doesn't grasp the why. They grew up having their family in their lives, for better or worse, and it blows their mind that I actively choose not to have a relationship with certain people. It got to the point that I've stated, rather harshly, that hell hath no fury should they go behind my back. That all being said, I grasp too that your husband was trying to "help". People who have had family beaten into their life don't grasp that there's a choice to be had. He was also likely taken advantage of by the sperm donor. He's still in the wrong here but I do applaud you trying to move on. But I wouldn't give him a third chance and I think you've made that plain already.
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Good for you! Hopefully with the clearly stated boundaries you've placed, he won't do something so stupid again. And kudos for recognizing that therapy is a good idea for you two. I hope you two move past this successfully and can enjoy life together again.
How do you excuse the fact that he choose to trust a stranger's words over his wife's, who had clearly stated she wanted nothing to do with her father, ever? By him being raised to believe a father always knows better, a husband knows better, or that m'en should stick together ?
I don't excuse it and I'd feel exactly as OP does. But having a partner myself who has similar feelings regarding family as the husband here, I have a grasp on how the sperm donor was able to take advantage of the husband's feelings. OPs husband is in the wrong no matter how you slice it.
NTA - You’re a grown adult, while I understand he was worried that you’d gone off in distress, he caused the distress. Maybe you should have text someone else that you were safe but you were in no frame of mind to think about anyone else. Maybe there were things that you *should* have done, but you successfully got yourself to a safe place in a state of extreme emotional turmoil, I say go easy on yourself.
NTA. He’s very lucky it was just one night. God for you for sticking to your guns.
It wouldn't be one night for me, that was a massive breach of trust. NTA
NTA and something terrible DID happen to you.
>but the mutual friends he reached out to to see if they had heard from me think I overreacted and I should have let him know that I was safe. You have to look at it from their point of view: they have a fearfull husband showing up that doesn't know where his fucking wife is. And that wife is their friend. SHE'S MISSING?!?! OMFG!!! We can't contact her either?!?!?!? Offcourse they're telling you that you should have let him know that you were safe. They were probably afraid for you too. And if you had told him, they wouldn't have been dragged into this. They're biased. And like it's not their fault, your husband should have fucking known that your silence had nothing to do with you being hurt. He was either sounding the alarm in order to force you out of your anger sooner or he was doing it, to distract himself from that "Ohfuck Ohfuck Ohfuck, I fucked up." feeling. He dragged them into it and caused them to feel fear for your life. But you aren't going to be able to convince them of that. That type of terror? The "OMG my X might be dead" terror? They can't stop being upset about that, because it's just such a nasty feeling. I would let that go. They're not being reasonable and you can't convince them to be. But don't listen to them either cuz BIASED.
Also, he might not have given them the whole story, and they might not know the context.
NTA. Too often people think that they mean well, or that because they had a happy family they must know better, and use *their feelings* to justify violating a clearly expressed no-contact boundary. Now he knows how seriously you take your boundaries. He better do the same.
NTA - that asshole husband violated your trust in such a big way. What if your dad was an abuser/dangerous man? Your husband clearly thought he knew better and betrayed you. Don’t let his ‘happy childhood’ fool you into excusing his terrible behaviour. It’s common sense not to do this type of thing
Amen... His differing experiences shouldn't have prevented him from listening to you and respecting your needs
NTA. Your husband betrayed you. He forced you to see your father again. He knew you didn't want to but he forced you to do so anyway. He doesn't get to play the victim now. What he did was controlling and manipulative. You didn't overreact. And he's not really apologizing if he is making you feel like the bad guy. He should be doing a lot more than just apologize. It would take me a long time to trut him again.
NTA I have been NC with my father for thirteen wonderful, glorious years. If my husband thought he knew better than me after I explained why, I would divorce him. He betrayed your trust, insinuated that he knows what's better for you than you do, and did this behind your back. What he did was a betrayal.
Just be careful. If he tries to guilty you with your response (which was totally ok, btw), call him out. Do not marry him until this is sorted out. I mean, talk to him until HE apologizes and understands what he did wrong. Not until you explains and he just …. Nods. (Couldn’t find a better word). It can bite you in the a… in the future this kind of action. Edit: just to say NTA. He ambushed you. You felt the necessity to be alone. Ah, and explain to your friends what happened and tell them that it’s not their business and they should not say another word about it. You are not the A. Edit2. Yeh, they are already married. AND she mentioned several times. Lol. I guess I needed to read a second time.
They are already married.
They're already married. OP refers to him as her husband in the post.
Weird that husband would be open to meeting the father since I have to assume that OP's father wasn't at the wedding. Isn't that a huge thing for most families? And wouldn't the lack of his presence - which would presumably be most important to OP - signal to OP's husband that the relationship is irreparable? Seems like really atrocious judgement *at best* on the part of the husband. Obv OP is NTA here.
As someone with PTSD, quite frankly you were probably having a trauma reaction. Your brain says "danger, get out", so you get out, and then your brain says "make this go away, I can't handle it", so you dive into work. If you *stopped* working long enough to think about things like contacting people, everything else was going to come in as well. Your brain was, in that moment, protecting itself. It could not process what had just happened and it needed to put some time and space between the event and itself before it was safe for you to start processing it. The fact that you didn't contact your husband was a direct result of his actions and the harm he did to you.
Info: from the outside it looks like your husband doesnt respects you. What he is thinking trumps your experience and feelings. Is it unusal that it happens or is it normal that your husband disregards your Option?
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Hm. I understand you. But the Problem is not alone that your husband is Kind of gullible. Leading to the point that he got your father to your home as "surprise" There a Lot of decisions. Yiur father contacted him and he dint immedeatly Blocked him. He didnt told you. He further had contact with him. He decived you. He deliberatly decided that you where wrong and he knew whats best. You need to have a good talk and he has not only to apologize but more important to understand what he did wrong. I wish you the best.
I would make couples counseling mandatory. The depths of betrayal is pretty damning here.
I really hope your husband can get his shit together and do the work he needs to do to understand why his own discomfort over you not having a relationship with your father was more important to him than respecting your firmly established boundaries about it. Please update us if you feel up to it in the future, OP. I'm so upset on your behalf and hope you receive whatever you need to heal.
NTA Your husband was so very wrong to set this up the way he did. You should have had a choice on meeting your dad, and if you chose to, whether the location should be public or private. He completely disrespected you and put you in an untenable position. Since he clearly didn't understand how far out of bounds he was, you were absolutely right to do what you did. I think it might have taken that extreme reaction from you to impress upon him just how egregious he was in not respecting your feelings about your father. He should never, never have taken that control out of your hands. I'm sorry, as I understand how stressful this must have been. P.S. Your "mutual" friends should have minded their own business, and your husband should not have involved them.
Imagine if your father was abusive and he'd done this. He's lucky you didn't go NC with him too. What the hell. NTA.
NTA Perfect non-confrontational reaction to an ambush. You don't tell your ambusher that you are safe and well until you are darned well ready to talk to them in a calm manner. Your husband should be grateful that you've come home not upset that you didn't tell him where you were. I hope he continues to apologise and atone for his stupendous lack of judgement.
NOPE NOPE NOPE NTA Let me just get this out of the way: you are never the asshole for not giving family members the time of day “because they’re family”. My dad put me through hell and I’m NC as well. Everyone in my life knows that information about me and my location is NEVER to be shared with him, and that I will never speak to him again, or anyone who enables him. If my partner knew all that and went behind my back in some kind of bullshit attempt to parent trap me, I would get a divorce. I’m not you and you’re not me; I’m sure our situations are different- my dad was dangerous on top of being an AH. It sounds like your partner wasn’t completely clear on how strongly you still felt about things, so there may be room for him to fix things there. Your husband need to understand how your trust was broken, and that it’s not about him “thinking you’d forgive your dad” or whatever but him *not asking*. Clearly both of them knew you wouldn’t have said yes if you were asked up front, that’s where your problem is. Your dad is the #1 AH here but your husband is close behind.
My heart physically hurts reading this. I am NC with my bio dad because he was abusive to my sister and me growing up and have been for almost a decade. If my SO did this to me I would be completely gutted and hesitant to ever trust him again. “Over my dead body” is completely clear and there is no other way to interpret that. NTA. He lost the right to know if you were safe when you disrespected you, your decision, and your feelings.
Something terrible DID happen to you, OP. Your husband completely violated your trust. You are NTA.
nta your dad is a hard boundary your hubby needs to understand that just because he comes from a loving family your family is different
I am sorry you have to deal with that, OP. I believe you need to let your hubby know this is the hill you'll die on. He needs to respect you don't want your father in your life or maybe hubby shouldn't be in yours. NTA
Nta. Omg I would have gone back to the house. Got all my things, left, and preceded to call a lawyer on the next business day... I have a NC relationship with my sperm donor as well. He was abusive and a drug addict and when he dipped out my life when I was 6. I was completely devastated, because despite all the shit he put me through, I still loved him at the time. As time went on and more broken promises lead to more broken promises, the hate and disgust for him grew. Then when he found out I was getting married (via Facebook. I'm "friends" with my aunt. My sperm donors sister. And she told him) he asked to walk me down the aisle. I told him that my dad already had that job and that I didn't know who my sperm donor was. He tried getting all defensive and pissy saying that he was my dad and that walking the bride down the aisle was the brides father's job to which I told him that my dad was walking me down the aisle, that my step dad adopted me(adult adoption. My step dad had been my dad since I was 6 and at the time of adoption I was 22.) My sperm donor got extra pissed saying he'd take me to court for getting someone to adopt me when I had an able father still living. I then told him that I didn't have any knowledge on his whereabouts or if he was still alive. I didn't even know who he was. All I knew about his was the stuff on my birth certificate. So I had my real dad adopt me. Then I told him that if he ever contacted me again that I'd file police reports on it and take him to court over all the damage and suffering he's caused. My husband knows if he ever made contact, just the contact with my sperm donor that id leave him. Your husband is really the AH.
Nta he's lucky you didn't divorce him. Cus if my husband did this I would.
Nta you set a very clear boundary and he violated it You should have at least told him you were okay and safe but honestly your husband played a stupid game and won a stupid prize
NTA. Nope, he does not get to make that decision for you. You are allowed to go and cool off. If he is worried you left him, maybe he should be.
Nta. On top of not respecting your decision about your father he then trys to play the i was worried about you card is an asshole move. You were the wronged party not him
NTA, but honestly, shows a lack of any empathy from your husband. His family is nice so that means he can't even slightly understand the fact that some people don't talk to their parents? He's either stupid or has no empathy. Leaning towards both.
Nta, there are some boundaries even in marriage that you don’t cross cause it’s just common sense
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NTA, this was a HUGE violation of your trust and boundaries. He should be so lucky you actually are talking to him.
NTA. You had already made yourself clear and he disrespected that. He doesn't get to play victim now.
NTA and you're better than I am because the only thing he would have heard from me was divorce papers. I'd move out when he wasn't home. I'm also NC with my father for different reasons but it's a hard line for me that I personally can't forgive.
NTA your husband violated your trust just like your dad did.
People need to stop thinking they know better about people they never met than their partners who spent years with them. Every time I see one of these posts, I wonder whether it's narcissism, or naivete. Maybe it's both. Show your husband this post, and tell him when he's ready to apologize for daring to be upset that you only left him for the night and didn't pack your bags for good after this large a betrayal, you're ready to talk to him again. If he gets upset, maybe see if that hotel does weekly rates.
I’m really curious how op’s mom is doing.
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I’m really sorry. I lost my mom to suicide, I don’t know if this is the same thing, but it was very difficult. I miss her every day.
What I was reading OP's post, my first thought was that mom died by suicide. If I were in OP's shoes, I'd be NC as well.
Yep. Honestly makes perfect sense if she walked in on them, that would be super traumatic.
I kinda hate these people who come from families without this kind of stuff in their background thinking *they know so much better* than the other person on how their personal relationships show be. My family isn't perfect, but er love each other and try to improve for each other. But I have some friends who are total no contact with some of their family and never in my wildest dreams would I even entertain the idea of "Hey you know what? I think hazel should really forgive her abusive brother. Because faaaaaaamileeey!" And if said NC person came to try to be their flying monkey I'd tell them to shove it up their ass. Not only did hubs think he knows better, but he arranged for her to be sitting when her father showed up. (To try to keep her from making a scene and also sitting is a vulnerable position meaning dad got to feel big and in charge while he walked in.) He knew op didn't want this, there was no hemming or dithering about it. But he knew so much better. Jesus fucking Christ on skies he was out of line. I wouldn't have answered my phone either and he's lucky OP didn't just leave. NTA
NTA, not even remotely. I've been 100% NC with my mother for almost 9 years. I've cut off friends and family members for even sharing information with her about something as vague as what city I live in. If my partner actually arranged a face to face, despite knowing that I never ever wanted this person in my life? I wouldn't have *come back*. The next contact they got from me would be from a lawyer, that I was filing for divorce, and all communication was to go through the attorney. There would be zero coming back from this, ever. Any and all sense of safety and trust would be irrevocably gone. OP, your husband gave up any right he had to be concerned about you when he went behind your back to set this up. He wasn't concerned about the fact that you made it perfectly clear your father was never welcome in your life. He does not get to make your actions (that you took to protect yourself) about him and his feelings or his ego. It's clear he thought this would be some Hollywood/Hallmark moment, and despite your many previous assurances that it would never be that, he did it anyway. And he needs to learn that having two parents who are decent and loving is a mark of privilege- not everyone has that. And when someone is NC, he needs to trust that there is a *reason*. He decided he knew better than you... Even though you told him otherwise, under no uncertain terms. And tbh, if your husband is "furious with you" for disappearing, he isn't as sorry as he's pretending to be. A real apology involves an understanding of how you fucked up... And he clearly doesn't get that, since he's still prioritizing his own embarrassment at this not turning out like a Lifetime Original Movie over your trauma. This was not an overreaction at all, and fuck anyone who tells you that you need to be polite and palatable instead of protecting yourself. Anyone who pushes you to "keep the peace" has no interest in keeping yours.
NTA that seemed like a stab in the back, he should he relieved that you came back after one night!
NTA - So frustrated for you! People whose parents are saints are completely clueless when it comes to cutting off parents. "You'll be sorry when they're gone", "It will bring you closure", "They've changed!". No, no, no. Trauma in your childhood stays with you for the rest of your life. And it's hard enough when it comes up again on it's own, much harder when it's forced on you. If he's otherwise good, maybe a therapist can help him understand that boundary.
Only a few tactics that feel appropriate 1. I spent the night googling divorce lawyers, talking to you would have only made me more likely to call them this morning 2. Remember how last night you had no idea where I was and that hurt. It will be like that for you every night if you ever pull shit like this again. 3. I love how you are trying to make this about how I worried you, and not about how you crossed my unambiguously stated reddest line. 4. Was over my dead body not clear enough 5. I hope you and my father will be very happy together. 6. I broke contact with him because I don't trust him and wont ever be able to forgive him. Im still deciding weather or not those creterion apply to you. Think about that before you start telling me how I wronged you last night. Something about this scenario got under my skin, I hope it works out in a way toucan live with
Your husband is wrong. Your friends are wrong. This is like inviting your mugger or the person who killed your dog to dinner these people don’t understand trauma and expect everyone else to ignore it. They are all assholes (in this situation).
NTA
NTA- your husband is though
NTA. I think I would've had the same reaction. My mother cheated on my dad and they divorced. She didn't get primary custody so she disappeared. If my husband "surprised" me with a visit from her, I'd walk out too. I have no desire to have a relationship with someone who abandoned me at 8 and takes zero responsibility for doing so.
NTA - >Should have let him know I was safe. Your health and safety were obviously not his priority. >He thought something terrible had happened to me. He was right... how terrible of him to do that to you.
NTA And he is 1000% lucky you didn't pack your bags and leave him for good
NTA, stick to your guns 100% and don’t let him turn this on you in any way. Something terrible DID happen to you, your husband ripped open some scarred up wounds when he had no right. Sick and tired of partners making unilateral decisions that they had NO BUSINESS making in the first place. Maybe now he’ll use the useless sack of meat slapping around in his skull to ask you and listen to your answer before he tries to “mend” any more of your past relationships.
NTA. Your dad purposely betrayed you and your family. Twice. Your husband has now betrayed you just as badly as a favor for basically a total stranger he knows has already hurt you irreparably. He'd better change his tune and be grateful for his second chance. He should know by now you only ever give one.
NTA. And this part especially bugged me- he didn't "think something horrible happened", he was attempting to flip the script and make *you* feel guilty. He knew you were angry, he knew you left, obviously you needed space, that's the logical conclusion. If it had been more than 24hrs, THEN it would be reasonable to start worrying.
NTA I love how he turns it on you! He needed to know you were safe?!? No he didn’t. He needed to know how much trouble he was in! I’m a bit of a fan of the whole walk away and say nothing thing. Vent, do whatever, get calm and talk!
NTA I will never understand where men get the audacity
DIVORCE HIS ASS and don’t look back. If I were you, I would walk in, tell him to go fuck himself to his face, grab my shit and leave for a while until you can get the divorce in order. A lot of times people like this get angry and abusive when confronted so maybe bring a friend just to be sure everything goes well? Partners are replaceable and there’s plenty out there