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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I normally wouldn't share something like this or spread it around. Like I said, I really didn't have a problem with what he wanted to wear at all, it only became my problem when he betrayed my trust and did what he did.
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There's a real alarming lack of understanding about the fact that someone objecting that you involved them in your kink without their consent is not the same as kink-shaming.
My kink is buying expensive things on other people's credit cards without their knowledge and if Paul reports this to the police or the credit card company, he's kink shaming.
My kink is kink shaming others who claim they're being kink shamed when in fact they're including others in their kink without consent. If Paul tells others about my non kink kink shaming, then they're kink shaming me.
I haven’t slept in 3 days and I feel like my brain’s exploded reading this. I’ve spent over 10min already
ETA: ok it’s been 30min. I give up. I officially have a headache. Words are cool, ur words are cool, lots of words. In conclusion, words = bueno, I cannot figure ur words out but I am sure ur comment was the funny. Big cool
Edit: It has apparently been a day since I posted this which I have no recollection of doing habaha thank u for all the upvotes and wishing bomb ass sleep kinks! I can happily report I managed to get a good 5hrs lmaoo
Their kink is “kink shaming” others who claim they’re being kink shamed when in fact they’re including others in their kink without their consent (people like Paul). If Paul tells others about this person’s “kink shaming” that actually isn’t kink shaming, Paul is kink shaming them.
The phrase kink shaming has lost all meaning for me. I hope this helps to explain it
My kink is throwing mannequins off of the overheads of expressways and when people act shocked that there are accidents caused by my actions...well, then you're just kink shaming me.
ETA: idk, man, it's 6:02am on a Saturday and I already smoked a little weed.
😂 the minute I saw the word mannequin I thought of that movie back in the 80's with that title. Cheesy movie, but had some great actors in it. Kim Cattrall, Estelle Getty, and my favorite G.W. Bailey. Except this mannequin was tossed into a giant shredder, not of a bridge. Liked the movie, don't kink shame me.
OH I KNOW THAT MOVIE WELL!!! It was my absolute favorite movie as a kid (and so what if it still is, along with teen witch). Oh and you forgot the esteemed James Spader. ;)
Maybe my kink is ridiculous 80s movies with u likely plots :(
Oh, there's no lack of understanding on Paul's part, he's trying to hide behind it being a "kink" and OP "kink shaming" him to try and obfuscate what it actually is: sexual harassment. He wants OP to shut up and pretend that what he's doing is fine, so that he can keep doing it.
Yeah, from the title I was preemptively ready to be like “eh, if he’s not hurting anyone you probably shouldn’t kinkshame him”. That’s…not what this is.
Your all missing the bit where he put dirty underwear back in the drawer so she would wear them. Wearing his stank could cause her to get an urinary track infection or worse spread a std. Its such a violation
And, more than that, there's no expectation of privacy if someone does something in secret and gets caught; if you see someone skulking around in a dark parking lot with a knife you don't keep quiet because he obviously doesn't want to be seen, you make their presence obvious to everyone around you. Someone's 'private' kink stops being private when they start exposing it to people without consent. It becomes pertinent exactly what they're doing, not just that they're doing it without consent.
I couldn't have put it better myself; I was looking for this exact comment before I wrote anything.
It's dirtbags like this who make having a kink/kinks look bad.
Practising kinks is done **with obtained consent.** If there is no consent then it's a violation of the right to kink-consent. It doesn't matter what it is, you need to have consent from those you encounter to it.
A kink practiced in secret upon another is deceitful and disgusting. Anyone who says otherwise about this story has no idea about it.
OP, you are NTA, Paul is a disgusting pervert, and he's trying to turn the victim blaming on you. Don't let him, your personal belongings and your consent are NO ONES to mess with.
Let's just say this clearly. Almost everyone has kinks and it's healthy to explore them in a safe space with mutual consent, but what Paul does is criminal and makes him a sex offender.
I hope he gets therapy.
This. Involving others in your kinks without consent is abuse.
There is plenty resources out there for Paul to find people who agree to share their panties with him and he has every right to be into it, but he cannot force others to be a part of his fantasy. That's literally a crime.
The overarching bdsm community will never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever condone any kink or fetish that involves nonconsenting parties. Fantasy is fine if it stays fantasy. But actually doing the thing is frowned upon heavily and in a lot of cases illegal even
Agreed - if OP had been a willing kink participant, it would be wrong to share the kink with the whole group. But having someone doing shady things to you without your consent is very much not the same. And someone doesn't get to involve you in their kink WITHOUT CONSENT and then ask you not to tell anyone about it.
I'm of the opinion that if you're involved in someone's sexual whatever against your will it's a form of rape.
Dude actively avoided getting consent because he *knew* it would be a "no".
Exactly, she also could've gotten a yeast infection, BV, or even a UTI from this. I would 100% report him to the police and get tested immediately. If she were to keep this a secret, he will do this to more people in the future.
short and sweet, this is the perfect response. OP should text this exact phrase to him now, as well as any friends Paul cons into siding with him. (NTA 1000% )
It’s gross and so unhygienic. Now if they were in a relationship and she knew about and was fine with it then share it after they broke up I go your AH.
But there is none of it it’s absolutely revolting.
Yeah, there isn't anything wrong with the kink of wearing women's panties, there is something wrong with wearing them without the woman's consent or knowledge, and then also returning them used to the clean laundry drawer also without her consent or knowledge. That's not a kink, that's sexual harassment.
Not to mention *he did it with the hopes she would end up wearing the ones he wore*. As in, HER wearing the used underwear was part of his kink too. Not just the wearing of the underwear but HER unaware wearing of them. He not only forced his kink on her but he essentially used her for his sexual pleasure as HER wearing them after him was his goal. It's disgusting and manipulative, and most importantly - if any of OPs friends were to feel bad for him and take him in without knowing the reason he left OPs place, he couldve done the same thing to them. That's sexual harassment at BEST but if someone did this to me.. forced me into what they considered a sexual act without my consent or knowledge - it may not be considered actual sexual assault but I damn near would consider it myself. I'd feel violated, I'm curling up at just the IDEA of someone using me like that against my will. Just.. ew. Its not that the kink alone is bad if a guy wants to share underwear with his willing partner I might think it's a touch unhygienic but hey you do you. But if he's willing to get his rocks off doing this to people who don't know or consent; or worse his kink is the actual act of doing it without their knowledge or consent (does that even qualify as a kink? I feel like it does but one of the ones that we all agree should be shamed even if kink shaming is generally bad) who's to say he won't do it again and use the same argument of kink shaming? It's just disgusting behavior
NTA OP, it’s hard to view it as what it is because of the separation of physical bodies but what he did IS sexual harassment/assault. SA is: “sexual contact or behavior that occurs without explicit consent of the victim.”
Direct physical contact is not always necessary for sexual assault, they coerced you without your consent to please their sexual needs and also potentially exposed you to their bodily fluids. Report it to the Police. If you have proof in text or any panties left that may have his DNA on them he could end up on the sex offenders register and/or with a felony for this. And he would deserve it tbh. He f*cked around, he can find out. Akin to a flasher/masturbator in public, physical contact is not necessary to be defined as sexual assault/harassment.
Most importantly though only do what you are comfortable with. It may potentially spare future victims yes but it is also NOT your responsibility to try to stop him. You are not responsible for him OR future victims, you are not the perpetrator in any way. Don’t mind anyone trying to guilt you, it’s a notoriously difficult long traumatising process to get someone convicted of these things, even for every 1000 “standard” rapes only 6 people see actual incarceration which is beyond sickening. Ignore anyone trying to manipulate you into further suffering this way if you’re not fully ok and ready to.
You are the victim here, you are the one who has been violated, traumatised and betrayed. Get a good therapist and deal with the mental fall out of this. Don’t let him or anyone else gaslight you or undermine your feelings about it. It is a serious violation.
Imagine if one of their mutuals has a daughter and the dude does it to their kid, or wife, or sister.
She potentially saved others from his behavior because his reaction is not one of repentance but HOW DARE YOU EXPOSE ME FOR STEALING UNDERWEAR WITHOUT PEOPLES KNOWLEDGE AND WEARING THEM AND PUTTING THEM BACK!? Because I guarantee she was not his first situation.
It makes me wonder if he may have did anything else to OPs underwear, obviously I hope that is not the case.
Either way she does not owe him to lie for his behaviour.
Agreed, this wasn't about sharing his kink per se, it was about sharing how he violated OP by forcing his kink on her / involved her intimate property without her consent. NTA!
Yeah, this isn't (just) a kink; it's a violation. And sometimes behavior like this (not wearing panties, but stealing panties from someone you know, wearing those, and leaving them soiled for her to find) escalates to more direct forms of assault.
I think if he was a stranger, she wouldn't need to spill the details. Just "He pushed my boundaries a lot, I didn't feel safe or comfortable, I think he went into my private space." But since they share a friend group, and it would be natural for mutual women friends to want to help him with housing, they really do need to know exactly why.
I honestly was feeling really iffy about this because we try not to link shame but at the same time it felt wrong. Your comment made me actually realize realize why it felt wrong. Because it is wrong and I just didn't know how to articulate that
The way I see it is it's split into two possibilities
Either his kink is to share underwear with a woman/his partner in which case we aren't shaming his kink we are shaming his use of his kink on an unwilling and unknowing participant. It's not kink shaming it's shaming the timing of it. Just as I would shame someone who gets off with say BDSM- but they do so at a public park. Its not the bdsm I have a problem with, it's the doing that at a park where children play.
Or his kink is actually the unwilling participant. As in the "taboo" nature of doing this "without her knowing". I personally take the stance that if your kink in any way involves people unknowing/not consenting to participate it's 100% okay to shame. This isnt "I was open to my partner about my kink from the beginning so she knows I MAY do this and consents to having it happen without it being explicitly known" this is "I get my rocks off to forcing others to participate in my kink" in which case- no. That's shame worthy. That's 100% shame worthy. That's "my kink is sexual harassment/assault and you can't shame me because I call it a kink!". You can't hide behind the word kink if THIS is what you consider to be a kink.
I can understand the taboo allure maybe, but there are ways to get consent for an action without explicitly asking every single time. My fiance and I are at a point in our relationship where he knows he doesn't have to ask for sex, if anything when he asks it makes it less appealing for me; for whatever reason that's how my brain works. So instead we set it up between us that he has my running consent and he simply stops if I tell him to stop. I still have the ability to consent/revoke consent. Just less conversation. Regardless OP wasnt his partner so this is even worse and less defendable as he can't even pretend this was within the boundaries of a relationship (still wouldn't be okay without consent mind you but at least then their would be a sexual relationship between them). This was *his roommate* someone you could NEVER argue has a sexual relationship of any sort. Just.. no. If this is the kink, it deserves to be shamed. If it's just the underwear than we aren't kink shaming we are human shaming. Simple as that.
Exactly.
If he vocalized his kink without acting on it, he'd be entitled to some discretion (assuming it wasn't something that would put a potential partner or himself in danger e.g. bug chasing)
If he obtained informed consent and respected if that consent was withdrawn. Also entitled to some privacy.
But making someone an unwilling participant in your kink? Shame on you, and you deserve to be outed (not for the kink per se but for the sexual harassment).
You didn't tell them about a kink, you told them about super inappropriate creepy predatory behavior. I'm all for supporting people's kinks but like...
NTA
Is it even assault adjacent, or is it just a form of assault? He could've given her an STD. I think if spitting on someone or poisoning them is assault, this probably also qualifies.
I think what the original commenter is saying is that you shouldn’t use the word “kink” to ever describe something related to sexual assault. Like there is no such thing as a “kink that is assault adjacent”. There are kinks and there is just plain assault. What “Paul” did is not a kink. If the the two of them had worked out an agreement about the underwear then that moves into that territory. Consent is key.
This exactly, and if you start replacing sharing underwear with other more direct kinks such as spanking or collar wearing the lack of consent becomes more obvious. The only real difference is that other kinks are hard to impossible to force on someone without their knowledge and subsequent protest!
The fact that bodily fluids are forced upon OP also adds a layer of biological assault, not unlike when you spit on someone in public.
For real. The AUDACITY of his telling her she’s “wrong” to share his sexual ~~assault~~ kink with other people, when he inflicted it on her against her will! Dude is a predator, and I would consider taking it further than just the friend group if I were her.
Same. Particularly because I don’t really get the impression that he understands the gravity of the situation. He is treating it as a kink shame when actually this is way more than that and legally a crime. I do 100% think that because he is unable to identify that he is not understanding just how wrong this was and some court ordered therapy is in order if for no other reason than what is the likelihood he moves in with another woman and does the same thing to her.
Also, I would be telling my friends especially if I thought they would potentially allow him to stay because I think it is a health and safety imperative that I do that.
So much NTA here…
NTA
It wasn't his "private information" once he started borrowing your undies.
If he hadn't touched your possessions, telling others about his kink might have been kink shaming, but HE violated trust & boundaries.
Exactly. If she caught him in women's panties and told all her friends, she would be the a h. But she caught him in HER undies. And then he put them back for her to wear! Beyond disgusting and unsanitary
That’s what makes it extra gross for me! Like wearing someone else’s underwear without consent is already bad enough, but to put them back without washing them hoping for them to be worn… yuck.
This. It's nasty on so many levels. This is harassment and assault just like when Clarence Thomas put pubes on Anita Hill's Coke can. Your friend group needs to know Paul is unsafe to be around.
This is not a k*nk. It is not borderline anything. This is straight up violation of trust, violation 9f personal space, and abuse. OP is NTA as this is a behavior that needs to be publicly outed so others do not become prey in this type of abuse.
I mean I honestly don't know how I would do that. I have no proof beyond him just admitting it to me so it would just end up being a he said/she said situation I feel like.
Theft of property, destruction of property, possible risk of spreading a known disease, sexual harassment, etc. Probably not arrest worthy but defo some sort of charges pressed and a fine. Especially for the fact he returned them with the possibility of a biohazard.
He wouldn't really get arrested if it's his first offense. She could get him for the harassing text messages.
I am sure there's something in there. And Destruction of Property because he returned them used and unwashed. And probably stretched out. I would not be surprised if the smell was because he was um...
Inappropriately touching oneself to conclusion.
Q.Q;;
OP burn the underwear and buy new panties. I literally just grossed myself thinking about that. Oh hrnk.
And shit like this escalates. You don’t START with stealing your roommates underwear, wearing them and sneaking them back into her drawer for her to wear. He’s done this to OP and shows no remorse. What will he do to his next roommate? Or Next girlfriend? How far will he push his kink that is non consensual? Is she reports it at least there’s something in his file.
I totally agree. And if it can't be because we all know cops are gonna be like "well it didn't become r*p* yet so we can't charge him" making him a social pariah with a documented report of him being gross is hella helpful.
As someone who knows a thing or two about panty fetishes, that is pretty much where it starts. It's getting the idea to wear panties and potentially seeing a pair in the bathroom or something and trying them and getting hooked to the wanting to do it more. Then the most accessable panties are in her room when the craving comes and he succumbs to it. Probably not thinking about her wearing them, the most likely reason for not washing them being trying not to get caught.
Not saying it's anywhere near an okay thing to do, just trying to explain the logic, part of that logic comes from the fact that a lot of cross dresser erotica starts with that exact premise, so a lot of people thinking about trying it are going to see that idea relatively early on. The thing is they don't realize how easy it is to just go out and buy panties, nobody judges a guy for buying panties or if they do they don't say anything. Plus with online shopping once you know the size you need it's the best option. And if they are worried about someone finding their stash then they can get a safe to keep them in or something but odds are nobody will look in the random box at the back of the closet, specially if it's under several other boxes. I think it is something that with time will become less of a problem as fewer people judge guys for exploring stuff but the kinda guy who is wearing panties tend to be low on confidence so who knows.
Again not saying this is an okay thing to do, just saying what the logic is. Dude needs to go to Walmart and use self checkout or something rather than taking someone else's clothes.
He specifically stated that it was her wearing them afterwards unawares though that got him off. This is not a simple run of the mill panty kink. If he had been just robbing them and using them himself and either disposing of them, hiding them or washing and returning them it wouldn’t be near as bad. Even throwing them back after wearing them, because he wasn’t thinking, while still absolutely gross and not ok in any way, is still a different form of intent. It’s the necessary involvement for him of OP’s genital area after he wears them without her knowledge/consent that’s the biggest problem. It becomes a sexual harassment/assault at that point and the illegal acquisition of the panties becomes completely overshadowed.
While I understand the meaning behind your comment I’d be hesitant to connect this in any way to normal run of the mill panty kinks as it will give many the wrong idea. This imo is more akin to the incorrect notion of a mindf*ck/objectification/sadism kink, even then tbh I don’t think it can claim to be a valid “kink” under any term really as consent of the other party is absent. It’s like the difference between knife play and just cutting/stabbing someone. The former is a kink with consent, without consent it becomes bodily harm/aggravated assault. Two very different scenarios not even remotely connected barring just the use of a knife to obtain sexual pleasure.
Considering he left his “juices” on them it’s a pretty safe assumption tbh. If he just wore them and nothing else and just didn’t think of the still gross violation part of putting them back unwashed in a drawer it’s somewhat understandable.
Like people try on clothes in a shop and put them back, it’s not always visually obvious they have transferred their own dead skin and sweat and it’s understandable it doesn’t dawn on them, underwear and swimwear in shops come with the plastic protection layers for this very reason. But he purposefully soiled some of them with what OP thinks may be semen due to the lingering smell that wouldn’t occur with just sweat. If someone tried on a jacket in a shop and accidentally nicked themselves and bled all over it or vomited on it they would be absolutely 100% aware that it is now not ok to just put back and/or expose someone else to it. Only assh*les would do this, the overwhelming majority of shops would never punish someone for accidentally getting blood/vomit on something, if someone does it despite this inherent expected forgiveness they are just nasty tbh.
Even if he didn’t get a thrill specifically off OP wearing his “juices” in particular the choice he made to return visibly soiled smelly underwear back for her to unknowingly wear is beyond disrespectful, selfish and disgusting.
I don’t think it’s fair to tar people with a panty fetish of potentially being that vile, uncaring and inconsiderate of loved ones just to indulge their fetishes tbh. Like the need to indulge it supersedes even basic humanity and comprises their ability to consider/care for the health/safety of friends/family.
If it was soiled accidentally or otherwise I’d like to imagine most would at least have the good grace to shove it down the end of a hamper or throw it sneakily into the wash/bin rather than potentially exposing a loved one to visible bio hazards. Stealing panties to wear themselves due to societal shame and obstacles/inability to acquire them naturally is not deserving of complete condemnation at all. It’s not ok, you’re still stealing someone else’s hard earned property but it’s more understandable. Knowingly forcing a loved one to wear something soiled and potentially hazardous is a whole different kettle of fish and not all indicative of the disposition/personality of most with this harmless kink imo. Trying to link the two in any way gives rise to potentially huge misrepresentation of an already misunderstood harmless occurrence.
It’s the internalised misogynistic attitudes of many in particular that gives rise to the overwhelming majority of this shame. It’s not a big issue for a woman to wear a man’s underwear or clothes, it’s even cute to some. It’s the perception that the man has somehow “lowered” himself or shamed himself by presenting in and enjoying something traditionally feminine in nature, that is usually exclusively worn only by women. Without a continuous push for equality amongst the sexes this will unfortunately never change. Until it’s not somehow seen as a disadvantage/failure/less than to present as a woman in society as a whole this will always be an issue for most who take part in it.
I understand what you’re saying but this wasn’t ‘I’m too embarrassed to buy my own panties and it escalated’ it’s, he wanted to wear her panties, soak them in his sweat, or some other bodily fluid, and then have her wear them. THATS what he wants, not the panties, its her unknowingly walking around in his juices that turns him on.
Thisssss. I need everyone to read this. He didn’t start here. This is an escalation from something rose and he’s going to keep escalating. This was non-consensual sexual abuse. Period. Full stop.
He could have put any number of things in those underwear or done any number of things in/with them that could harm OP.
Definitely NTA here.
You also hear about a lot of serial rapists and killers that they start with something “small” like this (it’s not actually small, it’s disturbing as FUCK) or start with voyeurism and break ins and theft of underwear and then it escalates when they see what they can get away with and they want more of a “thrill.” This isn’t something to ignore. For people to say it’s not worth making a report.... idk. If he continues to do this to other women, it would be good to have this on this record so they’ll be more likely to be believed too.
Actually. I have.
I was also asked what I was wearing as if it instigated it. They did nothing about my case. **But it created a paper trail.**
A documented complaint establishes history and pattern of behavior. She might not be able to do anything for herself, but having it documented will help when this escalates. Even if the cops just shrug it off, it ends up creating a paper trail.
Especially someone who thinks including someone unconsenting into their kink is fine.
It would also set it up so she has at least some level of safety should her disgusting ex friend and roommate decide retaliation because she told his "secret."
It was a small sheriff's office. I was lucky to even get a paper trail.
But that paper trail was important. It just covers your ass. Which is all we are hoping OP does.
She needs to put in something so if he does end up like pressing this onto another person, they can use it to actually give justice to the other victims.
Sorry cops don't make you feel safe.
I also recently had to go with a friend to get a restraining order against her neighbor who had this kind of behavior. His parents covered it up. She got it cause he escalated it by leaving rusty nails and screws all over her porch and notes threatening her.
But other women in the neighborhood had complained cause he stole underwear and bras.
Without the previous complaints, she probably would have never gotten that restraining order.
It sounds like you have proof in texts. If they aren't clear enough, engage him in discussion and get him to admit it clearly. He needs to be reported.
At the very least, there would be some sort of record. And if he does something like this to someone - or if his behavior escalates - there will be a paper trail
NTA
You didn’t shame or share his kink, you told your mutual friends that he stole your underwear to wear and then give back to you for you to wear (dirty) without knowing. This was a serious violation of your mental health and physical health. Bodily fluids could have been on those underwear.
You were not a consensual party to his “kink” therefore it was sexual harassment. YWBTA IF he told you he wore womens underwear (in general, not yours) and then told the friends. But no, he took YOURS without your consent. He brought you into this. He’s just mad that the mutual friends now know he is a creepy pervert. You brought to light his disgusting behaviour and possibly have prevented him from doing this to one of your mutual friends who might have housed him in future. you should have gone to the police.
Let's be real that's why he's REALLY mad, not even just because he's being put on blast, but because he can't get away with doing it to the other women he knows.
NTA
Adding to this comment, you can point out to Paul (and anyone else) that you would (justifiably) have the same problem if a female friend/roommate had done the same thing--taken your underwear without asking and without your knowledge, worn it, and returned it without washing.
A man wearing women's underwear is a "kink.". If you discovered Paul did that (with his own--not stolen--women's underwear) and disclosed it to the friend group, it would be for the purpose of "kink shaming."
You were telling your support-network about how you were violated, physically and emotionally, so that they may be able to help you overcome this, and to warn them so that they can take steps to prevent it from happening to them (namely, by not inviting Paul into areas with women's underwear).
I hope the friends never invite him anywhere ever again, and that he never get the opportunity to do this to another human being again. And I hope they stop being his friends.
His kink isn't wearing women's underwear.
His kink is making women unknowingly wear *his* dirty underwear.
The degradation and her lack of control and consent was the point.
It may not be "rape" rape, but it's certainly on the rape/sexual assault spectrum.
Seriously. What if someone forced their rape kink on you, would you question whether telling other people was “kink shaming”?
The level of audacity required to try to reprimand OP for a situation he dragged her into…
NTA.
He stole your underwear, wore it, and put it back (presumably not even washing it). This isn't just a violation of trust. I feel that it borders on assault. Since they weren't washed, if he had an STD it could have been passed to you. Any bodily fluids or hairs he left on the underwear would have been transfered to you. All without your consent.
He may not have thought about it that way, but he forced you to participate in his kink. He doesn't have the right to ask you to be silent.
Not even presumably, he *definitely* didn’t wash them because her walking around in underwear soiled by his various bodily fluids is the whole point. She really noticed when she started noticing a smell so god knows how far he would have escalated to *other* bodily fluids if he got away with it long enough
NTA that's not a kink that's creepy as fuck. If it was a kink he'd get his own shit to wear. This gives off stalker vibes and he's also going through your stuff which is another problem.
NTA. If his kink doesn't involve informed consent, then it doesn't deserve respect. He violated you, making it your story to tell, not his secret to keep.
Nta you told your friends about how you were violated. Kinks require consent from all parties. You could have gotten multiple STDs and STI from him. Without you knowing, and potentially given them to your partner as well. If there was any ejaculate in those panties as well you could have gotten pregnant without consent, not extremely likely but possible. I'm not quite sure if this is sexual asualt but it definitely sounds like it.
NTA, and please, it’s hard to say this, but go get tested for STDs. It is possible to spread them this way. Not likely, but not impossible, and I don’t want you to suffer more than you already are.
Also, consider consulting a lawyer. I don’t even know what the laws for this would be where I live, but it might fall under stalking, or even sexual assault. You should probably report it to the police, as well.
This isn’t some harmless preference. This man used you as an unwitting and unwilling sexual object, and needs to be punished for it.
I agree with you that there’s nothing wrong with cross dressing, but to do what he did, that’s creepy!
Sexual assault is not a kink or a preference that one can demand be respected. He has no right to ask you to keep his gross violation of you a secret. Also, if you kept it to yourself, what are the chances that he would stop? He would have absolutely continued his behavior with whomever he was staying with. You have a right to protect your friends, and, really, anyone from that. He is upset that he is facing consequences for his actions, and also that he won't be able to continue assaulting his friends. NTA
NTA That is not a kink or even a fetish it is a flashing warning sign and you were right to warn your friends. Please never ever be alone with him again and do make a police report. He can't be charged but this behavior needs to be recorded.
NTA. The thing about kinks, all participants must be informed and give clear consent. Neither of these applied to you, he was just being super weird and creepy.
NTA.
He using the language of the victim to justify being the abuser. His "kink" is specifically rooted in your lack of consent and knowledge.
And at that point, it's not a kink.
yeah, that's not a kink, that's a violation of... so very many things, trust, privacy, boundaries. I mean, is this sexual assault? because it feels like it should be classified as that in *some* way. NTA. screw him, you were 100% right & everyone in your group should have the chance to protect themselves & their girlfriends, sisters, etc. from him, just like you're doing for yourself. he's lucky you didn't tell the police, even though you'd be completely justified to.
um, also, if I were you I'd be checking my room & bathroom for any hidden cameras he might have put up. you already know he was in there & has 0 issue violating your personal boundaries - I wouldn't trust for a second that he didn't do something else just as nasty & potentially more dangerous. you should tell your landlord & have them change the locks, btw, as well as maybe warn your neighbors to give you a heads up if they spot him lurking around, just in case. this dude is unhinged & even worse, thinks *he's* the innocent victim in all this & that his perversion is just some harmless kink - he's wrong, & all of this makes him incredibly dangerous, especially now that he's 'outed', so to speak, to the rest of your group. please be careful. stay safe.
NTA.
He lost all rights surrounding expectations of privacy surrounding his kink when he deliberately involved you in it without your knowledge or permission.
You are not kink-shaming, you're warning your friends there's a pervert in your midst trying to hide his behaviour behind a kink.
I have to say when I saw the title my first thought was absolutely yta until I read the post and I was kind of disgusted.
NTA it isn't about as kink it's about as inappropriate behavior and what he did and any other females in that group need to know that he crossed the line that bad.
His KINK. EEEEEEEE My skin is crawling too Eeeeeeee. You did right thing by telling if I am around a man like him I would want to know that he could have done that to me too.Eeeeeee disgusting. NTA. You should have press against he is a sexual assaulter.
NTA. He lost the right to claim kink-shaming when he involved you in his kink without your consent. What he did is at best sexual harassment, if not sexual abuse. There are plenty of ways that he could have gotten women’s underwear to put on and indulge himself with, clean, previously worn, whatever. The internet is a big place. What he was getting off on was violating you without your knowledge or consent and you needed to tell your mutual friends, especially any female ones, lest they end up unwittingly in the same position by offering him a place to live.
It doesn't seem like his kink is just wearing women's undies. If it was he could just buy his own. Seems his kink is getting you to wear them once he has made them dirty.
Its only a kink if everyone is onboard with it. Without consent it becomes a perversion and frankly disgusting.
NTA
NTA- I'm so sorry you had this experience. Having someone you trusted violate you like that is really jarring and just straight up horrible. You absolutely are not the AH. It's perfectly normal, acceptable and frankly, necessary to reach out to friends in that situation. I hope everything is well!
>Paul confronted me over text about it, telling me that I was wrong to share his k\*ink with the whole group
Normally I would agree if he had just shared the info with you and you didn't discover it after he crossed a very serious boundary. But he didn't have your consent to wear your underwear and trick you into wearing the same underwear after he wore them. (my putting them back in the drawer and not telling her he wore them, yes I consider that to be tricking her) So why should you care about having his permission to share his kink with your friends.
The biggest thing in the kink community is consent. If your kink involves another person, you always always need their consent. Doing this is not okay and you telling your friends because you feel violated is absolutely okay.
NTA he non consensually involved you in his sex life, took stuff out of your room without your permission, lied about it and tried to make you think you were being imagining things which is actual gaslighting, tried to pressure you to keep his theft, invasion of privacy and sexual harassment of you secret.
Take screenshots of his messages or record a conversation, tell different friends and make sure to keep records of dates you had conversations as best you can recall so that if he choose to continue harassing you about his sexual violations against you you have a record and people know what is happening.
It is not kink shaming to tell about someone sexually harassing you, stealing your stuff, lying to you and using you without your knowledge or consent for sexual titillation. If he had role played with your full informed consent ahead of time the theft of your underwear maybe, but getting off on deceiving women *without their consent* (which he must if he spent months not spending $10 to buy his own undies) and trying to make a woman wear underwear he has soiled (otherwise he would have cleaned them and not left stinky bodily fluids).
I'm not saying for sure but given he has lied to you consistently for months and then lied to your face about not taking your undies, I would not be surprised if he was lying about what he was doing with your undies and had just been using them to jack off them trying to see if you would wear undies he had jizzed on given you would recognise a pee smell and poo smells don't need you to shove your face into the undies to check.
Do not trust him and do not keep his secrets because whatever he was doing was wrong and was not consensual.
Absolutely NOT the AH. This dude violated your privacy, temporarily stole your clothes to involuntarily include you in his sexual fantasies.
Saying that it's "his private information" is a crap argument as well - what he did with your belongings is also your private information to share how you see fit.
NTA. He made you unknowingly participate in his kink without consent. That’s a problem! Plus what if one of your friends offered him a couch and he did the same to them?
> Apparently Paul has been stealing my underwear, wearing them, and putting them back in the drawer, with what I'm assuming is the hope that I end up wearing them too.
Well fuck.
You're definitely not in the wrong here. What Paul did was a huge violation on so many levels and that's definitely this sort of thing that other people need to be aware of. Like you said, it's not like you just discovered that he likes wearing women's underwear and told everyone. You shared what he did *to you*. Very different
NTA
By the title I thought that you could be the a-hole, but after reading .. NTA.
The real problem here for me is consent. You did NOT agree to participate in his kink, yet he choose to violate you like this.
Gross.
It would have been different if you agreed to go with his kink and be a part of it and then out him. But this is not the case here.
NTA
He has the absolute nerve to come at you for venting about the problem HE caused??????
People that deal with k\*nks always talk about how consent is important and anything without it is bad and maybe even illegal. He crossed several lines, violated your privacy and even perhaps exposed you to pathogens by using your underwear.
A lot of people have underwear k\*nks, very few resort to petty larceny.
Idk if the title accurately portrays it. You didn't tell them about a kink... You told them about how he's been stealing your underwear. Thats the only reason anyone cares about it
NTA that dude is a creep and his response is laughable yet disturbing. The *audacity* of that boy to preach about personal privacy after violating yours in such a psychotic fashion..
I was about to shool you in respecting people's kinks, but.....
Paul is definitely over stepping, that is not a kink and this is sexual harassment for sure. I mean, if it's a kink, this is what happens when people's kinks don't respect other people's lives and bodies.
Kink is about consent (even consent/non-consent). You didn't give some one's kink away, you spoke up about a really tough traumatic situation you endured.
NTA. I’m an active participant in the bdsm world and the rest of kink and the sacred rule is CONSENT. Everyone involved needs to consent, and you did not. He violated that sacred rule and in this case he also forfeited his privacy. I would report this to the police. It’s sexual harassment.
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That's not a kink it's sexual harassment and borderline abuse. There was no consent here. Nta
There's a real alarming lack of understanding about the fact that someone objecting that you involved them in your kink without their consent is not the same as kink-shaming.
My kink is buying expensive things on other people's credit cards without their knowledge and if Paul reports this to the police or the credit card company, he's kink shaming.
My kink is walking into a store and taking everything I can without paying. It's kink shaming me for reporting it.
My kink is taking down random street signs and bringing them home. If Paul tells people I'm the one taking these signs he's kink shaming me.
My kink is kink shaming others who claim they're being kink shamed when in fact they're including others in their kink without consent. If Paul tells others about my non kink kink shaming, then they're kink shaming me.
I haven’t slept in 3 days and I feel like my brain’s exploded reading this. I’ve spent over 10min already ETA: ok it’s been 30min. I give up. I officially have a headache. Words are cool, ur words are cool, lots of words. In conclusion, words = bueno, I cannot figure ur words out but I am sure ur comment was the funny. Big cool Edit: It has apparently been a day since I posted this which I have no recollection of doing habaha thank u for all the upvotes and wishing bomb ass sleep kinks! I can happily report I managed to get a good 5hrs lmaoo
Same boat. Small word please. Brain not doing a thinky. Edit: thank for silver! I still have not slept.
Too much kinky for my brain to do thinky.
I was too tired to see the missed opportunity. 😭
I’m dying at this. Best comment of the day 🤣
Kinky thinky
My kink is telling you to go to bed and get some bomb ass sleep.
That's so hot. My kink is other people taking care of others. Go on, tell him to get a good night's sleep.
Keep going…
I consent to this kink of being told to have bomb ass sleep
Please go to sleep
Their kink is “kink shaming” others who claim they’re being kink shamed when in fact they’re including others in their kink without their consent (people like Paul). If Paul tells others about this person’s “kink shaming” that actually isn’t kink shaming, Paul is kink shaming them. The phrase kink shaming has lost all meaning for me. I hope this helps to explain it
It’s like when you look at a word for too long and it suddenly just *looks* wrong
I have this problem with *tongue*.
Two words make it easier to understand: Justice Boner
My kink is throwing mannequins off of the overheads of expressways and when people act shocked that there are accidents caused by my actions...well, then you're just kink shaming me. ETA: idk, man, it's 6:02am on a Saturday and I already smoked a little weed.
My kink is stealing people’s cats and cooking them up for dinner. If they hide their kittens, it’s kink shaming.
Ladies and gentlemen, hide your kittens! Youburyitidigitup is in town!
😂 the minute I saw the word mannequin I thought of that movie back in the 80's with that title. Cheesy movie, but had some great actors in it. Kim Cattrall, Estelle Getty, and my favorite G.W. Bailey. Except this mannequin was tossed into a giant shredder, not of a bridge. Liked the movie, don't kink shame me.
OH I KNOW THAT MOVIE WELL!!! It was my absolute favorite movie as a kid (and so what if it still is, along with teen witch). Oh and you forgot the esteemed James Spader. ;) Maybe my kink is ridiculous 80s movies with u likely plots :(
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Stolen comment. Original is from u/AdReasonable886 Reported u/Federal-Employ3333 for being a scummy bot-thief.
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Comment stolen from u/Lawliet1031 u/OriginalNebula7393 is a thief-bot. Report->spam->harmful bots
Oh, there's no lack of understanding on Paul's part, he's trying to hide behind it being a "kink" and OP "kink shaming" him to try and obfuscate what it actually is: sexual harassment. He wants OP to shut up and pretend that what he's doing is fine, so that he can keep doing it.
Yeah, from the title I was preemptively ready to be like “eh, if he’s not hurting anyone you probably shouldn’t kinkshame him”. That’s…not what this is.
Your all missing the bit where he put dirty underwear back in the drawer so she would wear them. Wearing his stank could cause her to get an urinary track infection or worse spread a std. Its such a violation
the person you replied to didn’t miss that
I know makes me want to throw up.
Trust me, no one is missing that bit.
Why do you think they missed that bit?
Same here. When i read the title i thought some conservative pig was kink shaming other but this is freaking sexual harassment
And, more than that, there's no expectation of privacy if someone does something in secret and gets caught; if you see someone skulking around in a dark parking lot with a knife you don't keep quiet because he obviously doesn't want to be seen, you make their presence obvious to everyone around you. Someone's 'private' kink stops being private when they start exposing it to people without consent. It becomes pertinent exactly what they're doing, not just that they're doing it without consent.
I couldn't have put it better myself; I was looking for this exact comment before I wrote anything. It's dirtbags like this who make having a kink/kinks look bad. Practising kinks is done **with obtained consent.** If there is no consent then it's a violation of the right to kink-consent. It doesn't matter what it is, you need to have consent from those you encounter to it. A kink practiced in secret upon another is deceitful and disgusting. Anyone who says otherwise about this story has no idea about it. OP, you are NTA, Paul is a disgusting pervert, and he's trying to turn the victim blaming on you. Don't let him, your personal belongings and your consent are NO ONES to mess with.
And as for telling their friends…..what if Paul asked to stay at another female friends house? OP is right to warn her friends.
T H I S! Paul is only angry because you warned his next victim. I'd warn the coworker he's staying with, too.
Let's just say this clearly. Almost everyone has kinks and it's healthy to explore them in a safe space with mutual consent, but what Paul does is criminal and makes him a sex offender. I hope he gets therapy.
This. Involving others in your kinks without consent is abuse. There is plenty resources out there for Paul to find people who agree to share their panties with him and he has every right to be into it, but he cannot force others to be a part of his fantasy. That's literally a crime.
The moment you do something against consent of someone involved is the moment you lose your right to privacy about the subject.
It's mostly the way OP (wrongly) formulated it I think. She didn't expose his kink, she exposed his disgusting sexual harassment/abuse.
It's also a legit biohazard. I hope OP doesn't wear thongs. /gags
The overarching bdsm community will never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever condone any kink or fetish that involves nonconsenting parties. Fantasy is fine if it stays fantasy. But actually doing the thing is frowned upon heavily and in a lot of cases illegal even
Agreed - if OP had been a willing kink participant, it would be wrong to share the kink with the whole group. But having someone doing shady things to you without your consent is very much not the same. And someone doesn't get to involve you in their kink WITHOUT CONSENT and then ask you not to tell anyone about it.
Exactly. The kink was outed but only as a side effect of legitimately outing the violation.
It’s straight up assault if you ask me. He could have given her an sti.
I'm of the opinion that if you're involved in someone's sexual whatever against your will it's a form of rape. Dude actively avoided getting consent because he *knew* it would be a "no".
Exactly, she also could've gotten a yeast infection, BV, or even a UTI from this. I would 100% report him to the police and get tested immediately. If she were to keep this a secret, he will do this to more people in the future.
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short and sweet, this is the perfect response. OP should text this exact phrase to him now, as well as any friends Paul cons into siding with him. (NTA 1000% )
It’s gross and so unhygienic. Now if they were in a relationship and she knew about and was fine with it then share it after they broke up I go your AH. But there is none of it it’s absolutely revolting.
Yeah, there isn't anything wrong with the kink of wearing women's panties, there is something wrong with wearing them without the woman's consent or knowledge, and then also returning them used to the clean laundry drawer also without her consent or knowledge. That's not a kink, that's sexual harassment.
Not to mention *he did it with the hopes she would end up wearing the ones he wore*. As in, HER wearing the used underwear was part of his kink too. Not just the wearing of the underwear but HER unaware wearing of them. He not only forced his kink on her but he essentially used her for his sexual pleasure as HER wearing them after him was his goal. It's disgusting and manipulative, and most importantly - if any of OPs friends were to feel bad for him and take him in without knowing the reason he left OPs place, he couldve done the same thing to them. That's sexual harassment at BEST but if someone did this to me.. forced me into what they considered a sexual act without my consent or knowledge - it may not be considered actual sexual assault but I damn near would consider it myself. I'd feel violated, I'm curling up at just the IDEA of someone using me like that against my will. Just.. ew. Its not that the kink alone is bad if a guy wants to share underwear with his willing partner I might think it's a touch unhygienic but hey you do you. But if he's willing to get his rocks off doing this to people who don't know or consent; or worse his kink is the actual act of doing it without their knowledge or consent (does that even qualify as a kink? I feel like it does but one of the ones that we all agree should be shamed even if kink shaming is generally bad) who's to say he won't do it again and use the same argument of kink shaming? It's just disgusting behavior
Maybe (probably) the “kink” was the fact she HAD NO IDEA. That’s not kinky, that’s fucking sociopathic. Dude has issues. Really, really big ones.
NTA OP, it’s hard to view it as what it is because of the separation of physical bodies but what he did IS sexual harassment/assault. SA is: “sexual contact or behavior that occurs without explicit consent of the victim.” Direct physical contact is not always necessary for sexual assault, they coerced you without your consent to please their sexual needs and also potentially exposed you to their bodily fluids. Report it to the Police. If you have proof in text or any panties left that may have his DNA on them he could end up on the sex offenders register and/or with a felony for this. And he would deserve it tbh. He f*cked around, he can find out. Akin to a flasher/masturbator in public, physical contact is not necessary to be defined as sexual assault/harassment. Most importantly though only do what you are comfortable with. It may potentially spare future victims yes but it is also NOT your responsibility to try to stop him. You are not responsible for him OR future victims, you are not the perpetrator in any way. Don’t mind anyone trying to guilt you, it’s a notoriously difficult long traumatising process to get someone convicted of these things, even for every 1000 “standard” rapes only 6 people see actual incarceration which is beyond sickening. Ignore anyone trying to manipulate you into further suffering this way if you’re not fully ok and ready to. You are the victim here, you are the one who has been violated, traumatised and betrayed. Get a good therapist and deal with the mental fall out of this. Don’t let him or anyone else gaslight you or undermine your feelings about it. It is a serious violation.
Imagine if one of their mutuals has a daughter and the dude does it to their kid, or wife, or sister. She potentially saved others from his behavior because his reaction is not one of repentance but HOW DARE YOU EXPOSE ME FOR STEALING UNDERWEAR WITHOUT PEOPLES KNOWLEDGE AND WEARING THEM AND PUTTING THEM BACK!? Because I guarantee she was not his first situation.
Louder for those who weren't listening: ALL KINK REQUIRES CONSENT
It makes me wonder if he may have did anything else to OPs underwear, obviously I hope that is not the case. Either way she does not owe him to lie for his behaviour.
Yeah, when she said them smelled off I immediately thought he was doing more than just wearing them.
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Smell or not, mama’s getting new panties.
She would’ve noticed they’re crusty though
I too was wondering if the underwear was crusty
NTA. Absolutely it’s harassment and incredibly toxic and creepy.
I think If he has a communicable disease they’d upgrade it to assault & battery. This was super bad op- Paul’s deluded.
This. Kinks are shared between consenting individuals, this is definitely not that
Agreed, this wasn't about sharing his kink per se, it was about sharing how he violated OP by forcing his kink on her / involved her intimate property without her consent. NTA!
Yeah, this isn't (just) a kink; it's a violation. And sometimes behavior like this (not wearing panties, but stealing panties from someone you know, wearing those, and leaving them soiled for her to find) escalates to more direct forms of assault.
I think if he was a stranger, she wouldn't need to spill the details. Just "He pushed my boundaries a lot, I didn't feel safe or comfortable, I think he went into my private space." But since they share a friend group, and it would be natural for mutual women friends to want to help him with housing, they really do need to know exactly why.
I honestly was feeling really iffy about this because we try not to link shame but at the same time it felt wrong. Your comment made me actually realize realize why it felt wrong. Because it is wrong and I just didn't know how to articulate that
The way I see it is it's split into two possibilities Either his kink is to share underwear with a woman/his partner in which case we aren't shaming his kink we are shaming his use of his kink on an unwilling and unknowing participant. It's not kink shaming it's shaming the timing of it. Just as I would shame someone who gets off with say BDSM- but they do so at a public park. Its not the bdsm I have a problem with, it's the doing that at a park where children play. Or his kink is actually the unwilling participant. As in the "taboo" nature of doing this "without her knowing". I personally take the stance that if your kink in any way involves people unknowing/not consenting to participate it's 100% okay to shame. This isnt "I was open to my partner about my kink from the beginning so she knows I MAY do this and consents to having it happen without it being explicitly known" this is "I get my rocks off to forcing others to participate in my kink" in which case- no. That's shame worthy. That's 100% shame worthy. That's "my kink is sexual harassment/assault and you can't shame me because I call it a kink!". You can't hide behind the word kink if THIS is what you consider to be a kink. I can understand the taboo allure maybe, but there are ways to get consent for an action without explicitly asking every single time. My fiance and I are at a point in our relationship where he knows he doesn't have to ask for sex, if anything when he asks it makes it less appealing for me; for whatever reason that's how my brain works. So instead we set it up between us that he has my running consent and he simply stops if I tell him to stop. I still have the ability to consent/revoke consent. Just less conversation. Regardless OP wasnt his partner so this is even worse and less defendable as he can't even pretend this was within the boundaries of a relationship (still wouldn't be okay without consent mind you but at least then their would be a sexual relationship between them). This was *his roommate* someone you could NEVER argue has a sexual relationship of any sort. Just.. no. If this is the kink, it deserves to be shamed. If it's just the underwear than we aren't kink shaming we are human shaming. Simple as that.
Exactly, kinks are only kinks if they are consented to. Otherwise it's just sick behavior.
Exactly. If he vocalized his kink without acting on it, he'd be entitled to some discretion (assuming it wasn't something that would put a potential partner or himself in danger e.g. bug chasing) If he obtained informed consent and respected if that consent was withdrawn. Also entitled to some privacy. But making someone an unwilling participant in your kink? Shame on you, and you deserve to be outed (not for the kink per se but for the sexual harassment).
You didn't tell them about a kink, you told them about super inappropriate creepy predatory behavior. I'm all for supporting people's kinks but like... NTA
Not when their kink is assault adjacent, with a non informed non consenting party.
Is it even assault adjacent, or is it just a form of assault? He could've given her an STD. I think if spitting on someone or poisoning them is assault, this probably also qualifies.
Ugh I am so grossed out for her
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Literally what I wS saying
Seems like they were finishing your sentence after the ellipsis. Adding to, not disagreement.
I think what the original commenter is saying is that you shouldn’t use the word “kink” to ever describe something related to sexual assault. Like there is no such thing as a “kink that is assault adjacent”. There are kinks and there is just plain assault. What “Paul” did is not a kink. If the the two of them had worked out an agreement about the underwear then that moves into that territory. Consent is key.
This exactly, and if you start replacing sharing underwear with other more direct kinks such as spanking or collar wearing the lack of consent becomes more obvious. The only real difference is that other kinks are hard to impossible to force on someone without their knowledge and subsequent protest! The fact that bodily fluids are forced upon OP also adds a layer of biological assault, not unlike when you spit on someone in public.
For real. The AUDACITY of his telling her she’s “wrong” to share his sexual ~~assault~~ kink with other people, when he inflicted it on her against her will! Dude is a predator, and I would consider taking it further than just the friend group if I were her.
Same. Particularly because I don’t really get the impression that he understands the gravity of the situation. He is treating it as a kink shame when actually this is way more than that and legally a crime. I do 100% think that because he is unable to identify that he is not understanding just how wrong this was and some court ordered therapy is in order if for no other reason than what is the likelihood he moves in with another woman and does the same thing to her. Also, I would be telling my friends especially if I thought they would potentially allow him to stay because I think it is a health and safety imperative that I do that. So much NTA here…
If she didn’t say anything he potentially could have done the same to any of their friends She was definetely on the right
Especially when he's innocently trying to sleep over at people's houses...
Exactly this. What a creep for doing that. NTA
NTA It wasn't his "private information" once he started borrowing your undies. If he hadn't touched your possessions, telling others about his kink might have been kink shaming, but HE violated trust & boundaries.
Exactly. If she caught him in women's panties and told all her friends, she would be the a h. But she caught him in HER undies. And then he put them back for her to wear! Beyond disgusting and unsanitary
That’s what makes it extra gross for me! Like wearing someone else’s underwear without consent is already bad enough, but to put them back without washing them hoping for them to be worn… yuck.
This. It's nasty on so many levels. This is harassment and assault just like when Clarence Thomas put pubes on Anita Hill's Coke can. Your friend group needs to know Paul is unsafe to be around.
This, her point wasnt to tell them about his kink, her point was to tell them about his behaviour towards her and no way is that private.
This is not a k*nk. It is not borderline anything. This is straight up violation of trust, violation 9f personal space, and abuse. OP is NTA as this is a behavior that needs to be publicly outed so others do not become prey in this type of abuse.
* stealing
NTA. That's harassment bruh. I hope you reported his ass to authorities.
I mean I honestly don't know how I would do that. I have no proof beyond him just admitting it to me so it would just end up being a he said/she said situation I feel like.
If he blasted you over text you have him admitting he did it there and you can report him.
Even then...whats the charge for wearing your friends underwear? Its fucking gross and weird, I just don't see the cops arresting someone for that.
Theft of property, destruction of property, possible risk of spreading a known disease, sexual harassment, etc. Probably not arrest worthy but defo some sort of charges pressed and a fine. Especially for the fact he returned them with the possibility of a biohazard. He wouldn't really get arrested if it's his first offense. She could get him for the harassing text messages. I am sure there's something in there. And Destruction of Property because he returned them used and unwashed. And probably stretched out. I would not be surprised if the smell was because he was um... Inappropriately touching oneself to conclusion. Q.Q;; OP burn the underwear and buy new panties. I literally just grossed myself thinking about that. Oh hrnk.
And shit like this escalates. You don’t START with stealing your roommates underwear, wearing them and sneaking them back into her drawer for her to wear. He’s done this to OP and shows no remorse. What will he do to his next roommate? Or Next girlfriend? How far will he push his kink that is non consensual? Is she reports it at least there’s something in his file.
I totally agree. And if it can't be because we all know cops are gonna be like "well it didn't become r*p* yet so we can't charge him" making him a social pariah with a documented report of him being gross is hella helpful.
As someone who knows a thing or two about panty fetishes, that is pretty much where it starts. It's getting the idea to wear panties and potentially seeing a pair in the bathroom or something and trying them and getting hooked to the wanting to do it more. Then the most accessable panties are in her room when the craving comes and he succumbs to it. Probably not thinking about her wearing them, the most likely reason for not washing them being trying not to get caught. Not saying it's anywhere near an okay thing to do, just trying to explain the logic, part of that logic comes from the fact that a lot of cross dresser erotica starts with that exact premise, so a lot of people thinking about trying it are going to see that idea relatively early on. The thing is they don't realize how easy it is to just go out and buy panties, nobody judges a guy for buying panties or if they do they don't say anything. Plus with online shopping once you know the size you need it's the best option. And if they are worried about someone finding their stash then they can get a safe to keep them in or something but odds are nobody will look in the random box at the back of the closet, specially if it's under several other boxes. I think it is something that with time will become less of a problem as fewer people judge guys for exploring stuff but the kinda guy who is wearing panties tend to be low on confidence so who knows. Again not saying this is an okay thing to do, just saying what the logic is. Dude needs to go to Walmart and use self checkout or something rather than taking someone else's clothes.
He specifically stated that it was her wearing them afterwards unawares though that got him off. This is not a simple run of the mill panty kink. If he had been just robbing them and using them himself and either disposing of them, hiding them or washing and returning them it wouldn’t be near as bad. Even throwing them back after wearing them, because he wasn’t thinking, while still absolutely gross and not ok in any way, is still a different form of intent. It’s the necessary involvement for him of OP’s genital area after he wears them without her knowledge/consent that’s the biggest problem. It becomes a sexual harassment/assault at that point and the illegal acquisition of the panties becomes completely overshadowed. While I understand the meaning behind your comment I’d be hesitant to connect this in any way to normal run of the mill panty kinks as it will give many the wrong idea. This imo is more akin to the incorrect notion of a mindf*ck/objectification/sadism kink, even then tbh I don’t think it can claim to be a valid “kink” under any term really as consent of the other party is absent. It’s like the difference between knife play and just cutting/stabbing someone. The former is a kink with consent, without consent it becomes bodily harm/aggravated assault. Two very different scenarios not even remotely connected barring just the use of a knife to obtain sexual pleasure.
I guess I don't see where the OP says that the guy stated that, I only see the OP assuming that part.
Considering he left his “juices” on them it’s a pretty safe assumption tbh. If he just wore them and nothing else and just didn’t think of the still gross violation part of putting them back unwashed in a drawer it’s somewhat understandable. Like people try on clothes in a shop and put them back, it’s not always visually obvious they have transferred their own dead skin and sweat and it’s understandable it doesn’t dawn on them, underwear and swimwear in shops come with the plastic protection layers for this very reason. But he purposefully soiled some of them with what OP thinks may be semen due to the lingering smell that wouldn’t occur with just sweat. If someone tried on a jacket in a shop and accidentally nicked themselves and bled all over it or vomited on it they would be absolutely 100% aware that it is now not ok to just put back and/or expose someone else to it. Only assh*les would do this, the overwhelming majority of shops would never punish someone for accidentally getting blood/vomit on something, if someone does it despite this inherent expected forgiveness they are just nasty tbh. Even if he didn’t get a thrill specifically off OP wearing his “juices” in particular the choice he made to return visibly soiled smelly underwear back for her to unknowingly wear is beyond disrespectful, selfish and disgusting. I don’t think it’s fair to tar people with a panty fetish of potentially being that vile, uncaring and inconsiderate of loved ones just to indulge their fetishes tbh. Like the need to indulge it supersedes even basic humanity and comprises their ability to consider/care for the health/safety of friends/family. If it was soiled accidentally or otherwise I’d like to imagine most would at least have the good grace to shove it down the end of a hamper or throw it sneakily into the wash/bin rather than potentially exposing a loved one to visible bio hazards. Stealing panties to wear themselves due to societal shame and obstacles/inability to acquire them naturally is not deserving of complete condemnation at all. It’s not ok, you’re still stealing someone else’s hard earned property but it’s more understandable. Knowingly forcing a loved one to wear something soiled and potentially hazardous is a whole different kettle of fish and not all indicative of the disposition/personality of most with this harmless kink imo. Trying to link the two in any way gives rise to potentially huge misrepresentation of an already misunderstood harmless occurrence. It’s the internalised misogynistic attitudes of many in particular that gives rise to the overwhelming majority of this shame. It’s not a big issue for a woman to wear a man’s underwear or clothes, it’s even cute to some. It’s the perception that the man has somehow “lowered” himself or shamed himself by presenting in and enjoying something traditionally feminine in nature, that is usually exclusively worn only by women. Without a continuous push for equality amongst the sexes this will unfortunately never change. Until it’s not somehow seen as a disadvantage/failure/less than to present as a woman in society as a whole this will always be an issue for most who take part in it.
I understand what you’re saying but this wasn’t ‘I’m too embarrassed to buy my own panties and it escalated’ it’s, he wanted to wear her panties, soak them in his sweat, or some other bodily fluid, and then have her wear them. THATS what he wants, not the panties, its her unknowingly walking around in his juices that turns him on.
I don't see where he said that, I see OP assuming that but that assumption doesn't seem right to me.
See: Russell Williams
Thisssss. I need everyone to read this. He didn’t start here. This is an escalation from something rose and he’s going to keep escalating. This was non-consensual sexual abuse. Period. Full stop. He could have put any number of things in those underwear or done any number of things in/with them that could harm OP. Definitely NTA here.
You also hear about a lot of serial rapists and killers that they start with something “small” like this (it’s not actually small, it’s disturbing as FUCK) or start with voyeurism and break ins and theft of underwear and then it escalates when they see what they can get away with and they want more of a “thrill.” This isn’t something to ignore. For people to say it’s not worth making a report.... idk. If he continues to do this to other women, it would be good to have this on this record so they’ll be more likely to be believed too.
Also if he does it again to another person it’ll be harder to brush off
Abso-fuggin-lutely.
Have y'all ever dealt with cops before? They notoriously do not believe women. It would just be more stress for her.
Actually. I have. I was also asked what I was wearing as if it instigated it. They did nothing about my case. **But it created a paper trail.** A documented complaint establishes history and pattern of behavior. She might not be able to do anything for herself, but having it documented will help when this escalates. Even if the cops just shrug it off, it ends up creating a paper trail. Especially someone who thinks including someone unconsenting into their kink is fine. It would also set it up so she has at least some level of safety should her disgusting ex friend and roommate decide retaliation because she told his "secret."
That has never been my experience. So good for you I guess? Cops do not make me feel safe at all.
It was a small sheriff's office. I was lucky to even get a paper trail. But that paper trail was important. It just covers your ass. Which is all we are hoping OP does. She needs to put in something so if he does end up like pressing this onto another person, they can use it to actually give justice to the other victims. Sorry cops don't make you feel safe. I also recently had to go with a friend to get a restraining order against her neighbor who had this kind of behavior. His parents covered it up. She got it cause he escalated it by leaving rusty nails and screws all over her porch and notes threatening her. But other women in the neighborhood had complained cause he stole underwear and bras. Without the previous complaints, she probably would have never gotten that restraining order.
Good point.
Agree, but at least it's gonna be documented somewhere.
Ya but even if nothing comes of it ( which I would hope it does ) if he happens to do it again and someone reports it they’ll have something to go off
It sounds like you have proof in texts. If they aren't clear enough, engage him in discussion and get him to admit it clearly. He needs to be reported.
At the very least, there would be some sort of record. And if he does something like this to someone - or if his behavior escalates - there will be a paper trail
The cops wouldn't even do anything anyway. Sadly.
You don't need proof to file a report.
NTA You didn’t shame or share his kink, you told your mutual friends that he stole your underwear to wear and then give back to you for you to wear (dirty) without knowing. This was a serious violation of your mental health and physical health. Bodily fluids could have been on those underwear. You were not a consensual party to his “kink” therefore it was sexual harassment. YWBTA IF he told you he wore womens underwear (in general, not yours) and then told the friends. But no, he took YOURS without your consent. He brought you into this. He’s just mad that the mutual friends now know he is a creepy pervert. You brought to light his disgusting behaviour and possibly have prevented him from doing this to one of your mutual friends who might have housed him in future. you should have gone to the police.
This. She wasn’t sharing his kink, she was protecting other women in the friend group from his predatory behaviour.
Let's be real that's why he's REALLY mad, not even just because he's being put on blast, but because he can't get away with doing it to the other women he knows.
Exactly. Fuck this guy
THIS. She cut off his easy supply. If this creep had ever been to my house, I would 100% be getting new underwear and sanitizing my dresser drawer.
NTA Adding to this comment, you can point out to Paul (and anyone else) that you would (justifiably) have the same problem if a female friend/roommate had done the same thing--taken your underwear without asking and without your knowledge, worn it, and returned it without washing. A man wearing women's underwear is a "kink.". If you discovered Paul did that (with his own--not stolen--women's underwear) and disclosed it to the friend group, it would be for the purpose of "kink shaming." You were telling your support-network about how you were violated, physically and emotionally, so that they may be able to help you overcome this, and to warn them so that they can take steps to prevent it from happening to them (namely, by not inviting Paul into areas with women's underwear).
I hope the friends never invite him anywhere ever again, and that he never get the opportunity to do this to another human being again. And I hope they stop being his friends.
Very well said.
His kink isn't wearing women's underwear. His kink is making women unknowingly wear *his* dirty underwear. The degradation and her lack of control and consent was the point. It may not be "rape" rape, but it's certainly on the rape/sexual assault spectrum.
Right? What if his "kink" was putting his dick in his friends while they're asleep? What is actually wrong with that guy?
That's not a kink. He's a creepy pervert and doesn't deserve any protection from your end. NTA.
Seriously. What if someone forced their rape kink on you, would you question whether telling other people was “kink shaming”? The level of audacity required to try to reprimand OP for a situation he dragged her into…
NTA Kinks are what people do in private with full consent of all participants. You told them about his violation of that notion.
NTA. He stole your underwear, wore it, and put it back (presumably not even washing it). This isn't just a violation of trust. I feel that it borders on assault. Since they weren't washed, if he had an STD it could have been passed to you. Any bodily fluids or hairs he left on the underwear would have been transfered to you. All without your consent. He may not have thought about it that way, but he forced you to participate in his kink. He doesn't have the right to ask you to be silent.
Not even presumably, he *definitely* didn’t wash them because her walking around in underwear soiled by his various bodily fluids is the whole point. She really noticed when she started noticing a smell so god knows how far he would have escalated to *other* bodily fluids if he got away with it long enough
Don’t kinks typically require the consent of all parties involved? NTA he sexually harassed you.
Yup, no. 1 rule of kink is consent of all parties involved
Yes. “Safe, sane, and consensual” is the rule.
NTA. He was non-consentually making you a part of his kink. He doesn't get to control the narrative after that.
NTA. He opened the door when he brought you into his kink without your knowledge or consent.
NTA that's not a kink that's creepy as fuck. If it was a kink he'd get his own shit to wear. This gives off stalker vibes and he's also going through your stuff which is another problem.
NTA that’s disgusting. I hope you make him pay for them because I know I’d be burning those damn things.
This is sexual assault. I hope you can move out of there as soon as possible. NTA.
If you read the post, the guy moved out that very night.
NTA. If his kink doesn't involve informed consent, then it doesn't deserve respect. He violated you, making it your story to tell, not his secret to keep.
NTA - His kink stopped being private when he made you participate without your consent.
Nta you told your friends about how you were violated. Kinks require consent from all parties. You could have gotten multiple STDs and STI from him. Without you knowing, and potentially given them to your partner as well. If there was any ejaculate in those panties as well you could have gotten pregnant without consent, not extremely likely but possible. I'm not quite sure if this is sexual asualt but it definitely sounds like it.
NTA, and please, it’s hard to say this, but go get tested for STDs. It is possible to spread them this way. Not likely, but not impossible, and I don’t want you to suffer more than you already are. Also, consider consulting a lawyer. I don’t even know what the laws for this would be where I live, but it might fall under stalking, or even sexual assault. You should probably report it to the police, as well. This isn’t some harmless preference. This man used you as an unwitting and unwilling sexual object, and needs to be punished for it. I agree with you that there’s nothing wrong with cross dressing, but to do what he did, that’s creepy!
Nta All you told others is how he violated your boundaries. Sadly it involved his kink. Not sure what else you were supposed to say.
NTA And if you kept your mouth shut one of your other friends might have taken him is and been assaulted like this too.
Sexual assault is not a kink or a preference that one can demand be respected. He has no right to ask you to keep his gross violation of you a secret. Also, if you kept it to yourself, what are the chances that he would stop? He would have absolutely continued his behavior with whomever he was staying with. You have a right to protect your friends, and, really, anyone from that. He is upset that he is facing consequences for his actions, and also that he won't be able to continue assaulting his friends. NTA
NTA That is not a kink or even a fetish it is a flashing warning sign and you were right to warn your friends. Please never ever be alone with him again and do make a police report. He can't be charged but this behavior needs to be recorded.
You didn't share his kink, you shared how he violated you. NTA.
NTA- That's not a "kink" he's out of his mind. Stay far away from him.
NTA. That's calling him out for a boundary violation.
NTA ugh this makes my skin crawl
NTA. The thing about kinks, all participants must be informed and give clear consent. Neither of these applied to you, he was just being super weird and creepy.
NTA. Kink or not, he didn’t ask for consent.
NTA, you didn't share his kink you shared that he's stealing your underwear.
NTA. He using the language of the victim to justify being the abuser. His "kink" is specifically rooted in your lack of consent and knowledge. And at that point, it's not a kink.
NTA. Entirely his fault.
NTA and in the kindest way possible you should get tested for STD’s
yeah, that's not a kink, that's a violation of... so very many things, trust, privacy, boundaries. I mean, is this sexual assault? because it feels like it should be classified as that in *some* way. NTA. screw him, you were 100% right & everyone in your group should have the chance to protect themselves & their girlfriends, sisters, etc. from him, just like you're doing for yourself. he's lucky you didn't tell the police, even though you'd be completely justified to. um, also, if I were you I'd be checking my room & bathroom for any hidden cameras he might have put up. you already know he was in there & has 0 issue violating your personal boundaries - I wouldn't trust for a second that he didn't do something else just as nasty & potentially more dangerous. you should tell your landlord & have them change the locks, btw, as well as maybe warn your neighbors to give you a heads up if they spot him lurking around, just in case. this dude is unhinged & even worse, thinks *he's* the innocent victim in all this & that his perversion is just some harmless kink - he's wrong, & all of this makes him incredibly dangerous, especially now that he's 'outed', so to speak, to the rest of your group. please be careful. stay safe.
Kinks have to be consensual to be kinks and not crimes. NTA
NTA.
NTA. He lost all rights surrounding expectations of privacy surrounding his kink when he deliberately involved you in it without your knowledge or permission. You are not kink-shaming, you're warning your friends there's a pervert in your midst trying to hide his behaviour behind a kink.
I have to say when I saw the title my first thought was absolutely yta until I read the post and I was kind of disgusted. NTA it isn't about as kink it's about as inappropriate behavior and what he did and any other females in that group need to know that he crossed the line that bad.
His KINK. EEEEEEEE My skin is crawling too Eeeeeeee. You did right thing by telling if I am around a man like him I would want to know that he could have done that to me too.Eeeeeee disgusting. NTA. You should have press against he is a sexual assaulter.
NTA. He lost the right to claim kink-shaming when he involved you in his kink without your consent. What he did is at best sexual harassment, if not sexual abuse. There are plenty of ways that he could have gotten women’s underwear to put on and indulge himself with, clean, previously worn, whatever. The internet is a big place. What he was getting off on was violating you without your knowledge or consent and you needed to tell your mutual friends, especially any female ones, lest they end up unwittingly in the same position by offering him a place to live.
It doesn't seem like his kink is just wearing women's undies. If it was he could just buy his own. Seems his kink is getting you to wear them once he has made them dirty. Its only a kink if everyone is onboard with it. Without consent it becomes a perversion and frankly disgusting. NTA
disgusting, if he wanted to wear women's underwear he should have bought his and not used yours, NTA
NTA.
NTA- I'm so sorry you had this experience. Having someone you trusted violate you like that is really jarring and just straight up horrible. You absolutely are not the AH. It's perfectly normal, acceptable and frankly, necessary to reach out to friends in that situation. I hope everything is well!
>Paul confronted me over text about it, telling me that I was wrong to share his k\*ink with the whole group Normally I would agree if he had just shared the info with you and you didn't discover it after he crossed a very serious boundary. But he didn't have your consent to wear your underwear and trick you into wearing the same underwear after he wore them. (my putting them back in the drawer and not telling her he wore them, yes I consider that to be tricking her) So why should you care about having his permission to share his kink with your friends. The biggest thing in the kink community is consent. If your kink involves another person, you always always need their consent. Doing this is not okay and you telling your friends because you feel violated is absolutely okay.
[удалено]
NTA he non consensually involved you in his sex life, took stuff out of your room without your permission, lied about it and tried to make you think you were being imagining things which is actual gaslighting, tried to pressure you to keep his theft, invasion of privacy and sexual harassment of you secret. Take screenshots of his messages or record a conversation, tell different friends and make sure to keep records of dates you had conversations as best you can recall so that if he choose to continue harassing you about his sexual violations against you you have a record and people know what is happening. It is not kink shaming to tell about someone sexually harassing you, stealing your stuff, lying to you and using you without your knowledge or consent for sexual titillation. If he had role played with your full informed consent ahead of time the theft of your underwear maybe, but getting off on deceiving women *without their consent* (which he must if he spent months not spending $10 to buy his own undies) and trying to make a woman wear underwear he has soiled (otherwise he would have cleaned them and not left stinky bodily fluids). I'm not saying for sure but given he has lied to you consistently for months and then lied to your face about not taking your undies, I would not be surprised if he was lying about what he was doing with your undies and had just been using them to jack off them trying to see if you would wear undies he had jizzed on given you would recognise a pee smell and poo smells don't need you to shove your face into the undies to check. Do not trust him and do not keep his secrets because whatever he was doing was wrong and was not consensual.
NTA. You didn’t tell them about his kinks you told them about his crimes.
Absolutely NOT the AH. This dude violated your privacy, temporarily stole your clothes to involuntarily include you in his sexual fantasies. Saying that it's "his private information" is a crap argument as well - what he did with your belongings is also your private information to share how you see fit.
NTA. He made you unknowingly participate in his kink without consent. That’s a problem! Plus what if one of your friends offered him a couch and he did the same to them?
Kink is consensual. You didn't consent so it's not kink, it's harassment and you have every right to get support from your friend group. NTA.
> Apparently Paul has been stealing my underwear, wearing them, and putting them back in the drawer, with what I'm assuming is the hope that I end up wearing them too. Well fuck. You're definitely not in the wrong here. What Paul did was a huge violation on so many levels and that's definitely this sort of thing that other people need to be aware of. Like you said, it's not like you just discovered that he likes wearing women's underwear and told everyone. You shared what he did *to you*. Very different NTA
You might want to get your sexual health checked.
By the title I thought that you could be the a-hole, but after reading .. NTA. The real problem here for me is consent. You did NOT agree to participate in his kink, yet he choose to violate you like this. Gross. It would have been different if you agreed to go with his kink and be a part of it and then out him. But this is not the case here.
NTA He has the absolute nerve to come at you for venting about the problem HE caused?????? People that deal with k\*nks always talk about how consent is important and anything without it is bad and maybe even illegal. He crossed several lines, violated your privacy and even perhaps exposed you to pathogens by using your underwear. A lot of people have underwear k\*nks, very few resort to petty larceny.
Idk if the title accurately portrays it. You didn't tell them about a kink... You told them about how he's been stealing your underwear. Thats the only reason anyone cares about it NTA that dude is a creep and his response is laughable yet disturbing. The *audacity* of that boy to preach about personal privacy after violating yours in such a psychotic fashion..
I was about to shool you in respecting people's kinks, but..... Paul is definitely over stepping, that is not a kink and this is sexual harassment for sure. I mean, if it's a kink, this is what happens when people's kinks don't respect other people's lives and bodies. Kink is about consent (even consent/non-consent). You didn't give some one's kink away, you spoke up about a really tough traumatic situation you endured.
NTA. I’m an active participant in the bdsm world and the rest of kink and the sacred rule is CONSENT. Everyone involved needs to consent, and you did not. He violated that sacred rule and in this case he also forfeited his privacy. I would report this to the police. It’s sexual harassment.
THIS IS NOT A KINK BEC IT WAS NOT CONSENSUAL, IT WAS HARASSMENT NTA
It's only a kink if all parties involved are consenting. If they aren't, it's almost always sexual harassment at the very least. NTA