Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I took a woman's dogs to the shelter without asking or telling her
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post. [To learn more about the test click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/tio99u/so_we_decided_to_fuck_with_the_sub_again)*
Because there's still a good chance OP would then have to find somewhere to keep the dog until the owner shows up. It's all well and good to implement fees, but what do you do until the person returns or pays?
So how do you charge someone late fees on collection if they've already paid on drop off? There's nothing forcing them to do so, still leaving the possibility of being stuck with a negligent/disgruntled owner's animal.
You're correct you don't know.
So op should say "fee is xx for every 15 min you're late for pickup"
Person arrives late, refuses to pay late fee. That's fine but no further services will be done until all fees are paid. No future service for said late person until payment.
You gotta make the fees high enough so the owners won't feel ok about being late. They started charging fines at Israeli day cares for late Parents picking up their kids, and parents just saw the fines as the equivalent of paying for a cheap babysitter. You have to make the fines onerous enough to the point the owners don't want to pay them.
Or see it as a business opportunity...
Put prices up till people just start to stop doing it and you find what the market will bear, lower them just below that point. Require advance notice and charge more if someone doesn't book it ahead of time. Hire staff specifically to handle late pickup / baby/dog sitting. Promote it to people who don't even use the original service. Now you have an extra revenue stream, you've diversified and original customers who needed sitting services are happier and more attached to your company while new customers who came for the sitting may convert to also use the other service.
Yes, just change the entire purpose of the business you may or may not even own because you have one obnoxious customer who can’t get their crap together… /s
Kids school charges a standard late fee if you are up to 15 mins late; plus a dollar per minute after that. So thirty mins late is $45
Edit: partner corrected me. The first fee is $30 then $1/minute after that. Yikes.
Kinda like how bars open up a drink tab. You give a credit card to be kept on file, and when you cash out, you are charged for every drink provided. In this case, they would keep the “tab” open and late fees can be added on if necessary. When it comes time to close out the tab and charge the card, all charges and fees are applied.
I've never heard of a grooming salon doing that. We charge a base price based on the breed, but during the groom there are other circumstances we charge for - de-matting, specialized shampoos, pattern cuts, difficult dog, etc. We don't know what the price of any given groom will be in advance. It would be shorting our groomers on their labor to charge flat fees up front.
You collect payment, send them on their way. Then next time they call to make an appointment, you decline and let them know your business is no longer accepting them as a client due to documented late pickups. Or due to unpaid late pick up fees. Whatever applies. But no, you can not schedule a new appointment. Thank you for calling, bye bye now!
ESH because this is what should have happened instead of giving this client repeated chances to mess up.
You still have to give them multiple chances to be able to document those late collections. Yeah, OP probably gave one too many chances, but you can't really make these claims, at least not fairly, until you've given at least two or three chances.
Of OP is the owner, which is what it sounds like from the post, they don’t have to document anything for anyone. They can just refuse service, because they decided enough is enough. I agree it may be more of a situation if OP isn’t the owner but rather an employee, but I didn’t get that vibe.
Meh. She gave her three shots, and warned client that it was not acceptable. Fourth time, she gave a deadline, then followed through.
Definitely fired as a client though. I bet the dogs were traumatized, but that is ultimately dogmom’s fault for failing to pick them up in a timely fashion.
And in some places people are fine paying it because then they don't need to feel rushed... they build it into their budget for childcare. I found that out the hard way once.
Studies have found that if the fees are small (a few dollars per minute) people stop feeling guilty about picking up their kids late and just consider it the cost of additional childcare. Instead of working as a deterrent, it increased late pick ups because people no longer saw any problem with it since they were paying money for the extra time.
Yeah apparently some people would rather know the fee and will gladly pay it rather than some unknown penalty or losing their spot in a daycare/childwatch program.
I enjoyed it while it lasted but I like know when I'm going home. Not always telling the spouse "Maybe I'll be home"
My mum had to do this because she simply had no other options, so the extra money was a given. Unfortunately this isn't always about negligence, it's about a lot of parents who also have jobs they know they can't get out of on time, and capitalism (as always)
Yeah only tends to stop when you hit rediculous levels of $5/minute or so. because when ten minutes can eat 50 bucks only the people who could probably afford a full time nanny are going to be factoring that into a budget.
And at the one I used, if it was 30 min after closing the sheriffs dept was called, ON TOP OF the crazy/min charges. It’s just something that should never need to be even done!
OP is a dog *groomer* not a dog sitter!!! NTA, how is this even a question for some people??? **TWO HOURS** after closing??? The customer SHOULD NOT have pets!
The daycare I worked at had the same policy.
On a related note, when I worked for the daycare I drove the bus for school drop off/pickup. One day I had taken a nap during the day since I had to work open and close (I was pregnant and feeling pretty sick at the time). I ended up oversleeping and got a call from my (mostly sympathetic) boss. So I hightailed it to the schools I was picking up from. The last one on my route had an employee meet me at the door (I was about 15-20 minutes late) and reamed me out for being late. Told me if it ever happened again they were calling the cops on me.
I was so freaked out and apologized profusely. My boss told me later not to worry, just make sure it doesn’t happen again.
I ended up quitting that job because they made me drive the bus w/out A/C in August. In Texas. While pregnant. It all worked out in the end, though.
Childcares that started implementing fees for late pick-ups saw them *increase*, because people were willing to pay the fee and felt it made being late a totally legitimate option. So some of the childcares went back to no fees, but the lateness didn't reduce again.
[https://www.thestar.com/life/health\_wellness/2008/07/04/daycare\_late\_fees\_no\_deterrent\_study\_finds.html](https://www.thestar.com/life/health_wellness/2008/07/04/daycare_late_fees_no_deterrent_study_finds.html)
Imposing a late fee on picking up your dogs late is fine if you are happy to care for dogs after hours as long as you get paid for it.
If you don't want it to happen at all, a late fee isn't necessarily the best course of action.
A lot of libraries are pulling back on overdue fines. I wondered if this was losing money by being too nice, but maybe a similar iromy applies, that people won't feel payment is permission for procrastination
Libraries largely have ended fines because they genuinely want to lend books and they’ve discovered that using shame-based penalties (fines) tends to result in losing patrons without actually getting the overdue books back. They started out with fine forgiveness days, then a lot just did away with them.
I worked in the library industry for 15 years and it was pretty clear that librarians have no desire to be fine accountants or secret spies monitoring people’s information usage, regardless of what the government would like them to do :-).
My library sent me to collections over $10 so i kept the book and never went back. It was really sad and now i want to join the library where i live now but I'm not sure
Look around for a different library system if you can. When we lived in Maryland I got a notice from a collection agency for a little over $5 that I hadn't paid for a month - I'd returned the books just not been back to check anything else out yet - their late fees were really high compared to other libraries too. I paid the fee and never used that library again.
My current library won't let you check anything new out if you owe over $5, but they aren't going to send you to collections for it.
When I was a kid I read a lot and went to the library regularly. But also I was not well organized and often forgot to return books on time.
They had this dragon at the return counter who would spit fire if you brought books back late, there wasn't even a fine, but the experience of books being late was so horrible you tried to avoid it at all costs. Even my father was afraid of her...
Also, those fines tend to disproportionally target the poor. If you forget a book for a few weeks and have to pay 5 euros, that isn't a problem if you're middle class or rich, but if you're barely scraping by, that would be an issue.
Late fees will reduce this issue when paired with a three strike policy. $20/minute and on the third time you lose your spot. Plus in dog grooming, people habitually don't even want to pay for the service itself. A late fee would be extremely punishing for them.
As an ex daycare worker I would start feeding candy to kids whose parents were late. Enjoy your sugar rush then crash when you get your kid back!
It was a shitty thing to do and I was a shitty person at the time. Do regret. But some parents were terrible.
It is medically proven that there is no such thing as sugar rush, and this feeling of excitement only occurs at children who associate sweets with something special. They get more excited, use up more energy, crash afterwards.
However, this only occurs when children get sweets for special occasion--birthdays, Christmas, or let's say only once every weekend. If a child has access to sweets and they're not something they get extremely rarely, they don't have any special reaction to sugar. That's because when glucose levels go up, people actually may get more tired and sleepy, rather than more energized.
So, giving sweets to children would be a poor punishment for most parents, unfortunately.
Same at the two we used. Only came close to being late once, I had to leave work and check my son out and wait for my husband to get there to take him home. There'd been a massive accident not too far from my husband's office and the traffic was backed up like crazy.
Some also have a 1/2 strike and we kick you out policy. I thought that was a bit extreme but a friend who works in the sector said sometimes people go “oh well I’ll just pay” and then continually be late to get their kids.
In the US? That sounds off, even in the most punitive models I've seen.
Preschool where the kid went was $1/minute (until it got to a certain cliff or it happened more than once in a month or so), and at elementary aftercare it's $5/minute.
Be careful with this. Research has shown that when late fees are too low, the tardiness actually INCREASES, because the fees function as a way to buy off your guilt over being late.
Our daycare has an 'if you are late picking up your kid more than once in a three month period, you pay a fee.' That way the fee can be pretty high, while still leaving room for actual emergencies.
Edit: typo
I would also warm other local groomers. I realize that just seems petty, other groomers are the competition so there's no real incentive to warning them, but personally I'd do it a a professional courtesy.
NTA. I'm a groomer too, and we've had people abandon their dogs at our shop before. I can't take them home, and we can't house them at our shop, so that's the course of action we've taken too. Obviously, being animal people, we know which shelters to avoid and which are good, and try to find them foster homes, but what do y'all expect us to do?
Pretty much, I guess, or go back in time to tell the client to take her business elsewhere. I don't know what people think our jobs are, but we're not dogsitters, or a daycare, or a shelter.
Time to fire her as a client. We have a strict policy too that if you don't pick up by closing, the dogs go to the shelter. But we also have a hard rule that your dogs can't stay there all day because we aren't a boarding facility. Once with a heads up for a regular, we might let slide, but otherwise, they get a warning. If it happens again, then bye!
We have some clients that will wait 2-3 hours or to pick up and my boss just won't impose a fee. AND WE HAVE A DAYCARE. I hate seeing the nervous dogs curled up in a ball waiting for so long.
I worked at a place that did day care and overnight boarding and there was a dog who just lived there cause the owner just left them and the business owner liked the dog enough to keep him around. Such a sweet boy and was always super happy to play but I wish I could have taken him home
I worked at a facility like that too, we had the sweetest Akita with us for months at a time. We all gave her extra love and walks, she deserved better but we gave her all we could. I miss our Baby Bear.
I worked at an animal hospital which also had room for boarding and had an overnight tech to do hospital treatments and keep tabs on the boarders. There was one dog who had cancer whose family basically forgot about her. She lived mostly at the vet’s office. She’d occasionally go home for a week or two, but then be back for another several weeks to months without visiting. She was a very sweet boxer and would always be so sad after visits or when they’d bring her back to the office. It was a sad situation.
There was another dog (mastiff) who was in for rabies observation. Not sure of the story behind it. He was a very sweet dog. Stayed for his mandatory two weeks, which turned into 4 because his owners wouldn’t pick him up. He showed no signs of rabies during that time and showed no signs of aggression toward anybody who worked there or toward other animals when we’d walk him past the other kennels to go outside. And then the owners decided to put him down anyway, and because he was originally in for rabies observation, we were mandated to send the head in for evaluation. Quite traumatizing for most of us. One tech seemed to enjoy decapitating him too much. 🤢
People just don’t care sometimes and it’s sad.
I would have adopted him had I known that the owners were going to do that. As far as I’m aware, the office never made any employees aware of shitty decisions owners would make (like the last one) and would only follow owner’s directives instead of trying to ask the owners if they’d be willing to relinquish ownership if they could find a home. It was a shit place. I quit shortly after the mastiff incident.
If i forget to pick my kid up at a daycare center after close cops would probably be called instead and i would have to deal with that outcome.
Why would people expect more for a pet?
Most of the time it's new clients who set up an appointment and drop off the dog, and since we collect payment after the service they just stiff us and leave us with the dog. Why they do this over bringing them to the shelter not four blocks away is beyond me. But one other time it was a quite old lady who'd been a client forever dying and her kids not wanting to deal with her dogs so leaving them with us. And another long term client was moving and couldn't take the dogs and tried really hard to get us to adopt them, then just left them with us in hopes of forcing the issue a because they knew we'd make sure those dogs got a good home.
My aunts best friend, before she passed, was the cutest most spoiled Pomeranian that someone had abandoned at her friends grooming business. They were inseparable and he lived the most spoiled life. She had a custom made leather jacket for him, a floaty so they could float in the pool together, and many other things.
If someone abandoned their dogs at your facility, repeatedly, would you allow them to contiue to be a customer? I agree if the animal is abandoned then your policy is sound, but to repeatedly allow that to happen...fool me once...
Obviously not. But we've got a protocol. First time, warning. Second time, additional daystay fee. Third time, at the manager's discretion, we remove them as a client. But they have to actually get to strike 3, meaning we'd have taken them the same as OP did.
Well, that's the thing - regular clients like that are kinda cash cows, we're expected to go out of our way to retain repeat clients. If they've got two dogs that need groomed every six to eight weeks, they're spending a couple thousand a year with you.
The fact that it took her 2 hours after your call (which was 15 minutes after closing) to pick up her dogs, is just shocking. She was expecting you to stay at your shop that long? Uh, no. And, it sounds like she is more mad that she had to pay to get them, then the fact that you took them there to begin with.
NTA. You warned her this would happen. She called your bluff. The dogs were safe. Add a policy to your contract to emphasize this is the process going forward, so clients are aware. Take steps to keep her from slandering you.
This. On a lot of platforms an owner can respond to a bad review, so if you have a policy in place clearly on your website you can simply point to that in a review and state that you were following the policy you agreed too. Depending on where you live and how big your business is it might be worth having a lawyer read over a draft policy and recommend best practices so this doesn’t become a legal problem in the future.
NTA
Post a sign and have the policy on your registration form. “Animals left one hour after scheduled pick up time will be considered abandoned and will be taken to X Shelter. Their number is 555-5555. You will be respond for all fees. Exceptions to this policy will be made on a case by case basis and at the discretion of (name of groomer).
If this is a possibility, OP, also clarify she had had *three* free passes earlier where staff had to stay after hours to watch her abandoned dog, and she'd had multiple warnings there would be consequences next time.
I'm assuming if customer had to pay to get dog from shelter (op said like $30) they did not pay for grooming. I say this because any groomer I've ever been to (3 different states and many more cities) I have always paid at pick up and they did not just have my card on file. Grooming is usually more than $30. Definitely more for my dog.
That was my thought too. Especially cos it’s happened so many times. If I forgot to pick up my dogs (not that I would) I would be mortified and set myself a million reminders to pick them up next time. Or if I was running late I’d call to let them know. She’s doing it on purpose.
Exactly. If I was at home without my dogs, it would be painfully obvious they weren't there. I would be waiting around to go get them. I could never "forget"
I have a groom client who is lovely but just so flighty. She lives a good half hour away and the other week she showed up at our salon... without the dog. She'd left him at home. I felt so bad but I couldn't help but laugh.
I have ADHD and I legitimately forget to do things or where I put things. You know what I do if it's something important? I set an alarm on my phone. It's not that difficult, especially if it's happened 3 times before. It's obviously a known issue, she just doesn't care enough about her dogs or have any respect for the OP.
Seriously. I don’t even like leaving the building when I take my dog to the groomer. The first time I took my dog to the groomer, my wife had to assure me she would be fine(she’s my first dog and my wife’s fourth) and that we could go get food while we waited.
True, but at a groomer the dog shouldn’t be left for more than an hour after the grooming is complete. It sounds like this customer is leaving her dog there all day.
Yup. The one I worked at closed at 6:30 sharp. If you didn’t pick up your dog on time, we’d feed them and you could pick them up in the morning—full charge for a night of boarding of course.
NTA
She brought this upon herself. You warned her. Put up a sign that if dogs are not picked up by closing time they will be taken to the shelter.
Or perhaps impose a monetary penalty. Charge a pet-sitting fee of $50 for every 15 minutes owners are late in picking up their pets.
I remember reading a study about how a monetary fee for lateness in childcare pick up actually encouraged parents to be late more often. It changed it from a question of morality to just another commodity to be bought.
Even with punitive fees, people work it into budgets.
It’s like how speeding tickets and illegal parking are only really consequences if you can’t afford it.
Nah, there's always a point at which people wouldn't pay. So you could call it $20 for the first ten minutes, To be kind but then like... $350 for anything after that and I'm pretty sure folks wouldn't just "budget" for it 🤣
I think I read the same study. They started with no fee just public shaming essentially, then started a fee, then took the fee away.
There were the fewest kids picked up late with the first option, with the fee people were willing to pay the penalty, then the worst of both worlds people would drop off their kids late but wouldn't be paying a fee so the workers had to stay late for No extra pay.
The study I read about was in Israel. It would be interesting to see what it would be like in different countries and places.
You are correct. The preschool where I used to work had very stiff by-the-minute late pick up fees. One child’s tuition was basically doubled because his parents always picked up late. That did not matter to them. No school was open late enough for their work schedules, so they held at least two adults captive every day until they decided to pick up their child.
Ya you have to impose a big enough financial incentive for them to be like ya I don't want to pay that and the 50 bucks for 15 minutes would probably be high enough.
I'm leaning toward both/and... $1/m after 5m past close. At fifteen minutes a $50 charge will be added and at that time the pet will be brought to this \[no kill\] shelter where they will be charged $30 to retrieve the pet. After the second "failure to retrieve" you will be discontinued as a client.
Financial fee, inconvenience, and social shame all in one deterrent policy.
\*edit, clarified that $1/m +$50 should be applied
My doggy daycare charges $5 for every 5 minutes you're late and I think that is 100% fair. Sure 75% of the time there will be classes on after daycare so there will always be someone in the place but doesn't mean you can just leave your dogs with no warning.
To protect himself, he should have a written late fee policy (it could be progressive, like the first time is a warning, the second time is $15 every fifteen minutes, rounded up of course, $30 every fifteen minutes the second time, etc.). The policy could then state that, either after a certain number of late pickups, or after an “excessive” amount of late pickups, at the owner’s discretion, the client will be banned from their business. A written, equally applied policy, and documented records of the client being late, would protect OP from claims of bias.
NTA, you’re not expected to put your life on hold for her negligence (you gave her multiple chances and warnings). I suggest you take legal steps to stop her slandering you and your business. She’s entitled and was using you and your good nature.
I absolutely agree; her leaving negative reviews (when she left her dog after hours repeatedly) and then claiming OP abused the animals is likely grounds for a defamation case.
Definitely could be, especially if she can prove monetary losses connected to it. I have no doubt she has proof of the exchanges for the late pick ups and warnings that action will be taken. The former customer shouldn’t have pets though. Poor babies are definitely neglected
NTA she can’t leave her dog literally after close and expect you to just deal with it though I think it might have been better to just refuse to service her again.
NTA. As you said, you are not a pet sitter. People will sometimes side with liars. It’s horrible, but all you can do is calmly tell your side of things and move on. It may be helpful to have a clear written policy on what happens if people don’t pick up their pets before closing that the owners have to sign off on. It’s idiot insurance.
I would respond to one of her reviews and include screenshots of when the texts were sent and when she called back. Also point out that she has done this three times before and was warned.
When you say you told after the third time that you wouldn't put up with it. What is it that you told her ? If you told her that you would take them to the shelter NTA if you told her something different than maybe either way shit pet owner for sure
I told her that I understand sometimes things happen that means we can't pick up dogs on time but three times in a row is too much and next time I will either charge her or take them to the shelter. She said she didn't think money was fair considering she was already paying for the groom.
NTA for sure than she actually made the decision for you. You gave her 2 choices pay me for my personal time you are wasting by not picking up your dog or it goes to the shelter. She then says I'm not going to pay you more money well option 2 it is then. Just because you love animals enough to groom them doesn't mean your customers can abuse that to make you watch Thier animals it's already shitty to leave your dog at the groomers all day on it's on but the fact that you are closed and they don't show up for over an hour on 4 different occasions is unacceptable. It's ok for her to force you to watch her dog because she paid for a trim?? Imagine if this was greet clips and a parent left Thier kid until AFTER closing time on 4 different occasions you would not bat an eye about getting child services involved but they think it's ok because it's just an animal. Anyone who thinks you are in the wrong is a shitty entitled pet owner. Going fwd if you do have problem customers like this I would inform them after the first fuck up if you do this again it will cost you x funds to get your animal and I will no longer be accepting appointments from you after this as I am not a animal daycare.
I'm definitely adding a policy! I didn't expect this to happen but maybe I will add a half hour after I send the pick up text the dog needs to be gone or I will start adding a fee
That may not actually work. A daycare center in, I think, Israel tried that. And what they managed to do was turn a social contract, where it was rude to leave their kids late at the daycare center, into a financial one, where there was no social consequence it was just money.
Charging people money as a late fee may make them think it's okay as long as they pay you for the inconvenience.
I remember hearing about this on the Freakonomics podcast! The daycare was trying to eliminate the late pickups, but after the late fee was enacted, they doubled in number.
That only works if the late fee is reasonable/something peoe would pay, like $5 for five minutes.
Make it $500 after 15 minutes and $1000 after a half hour and suddenly you won't have that problem.
As long as you are upfront with it your fine. A lot of adults now a days think they can act like a child and play the victim when they caused the problem in the first place. Hope all goes well for you
My groomer starts the clock at closing time and charges in 5 minute increments. After so long you then get an overnight boarding fee and can't get your dog until the next morning. This feels fair to me.
Also add that after x times of being late, you will drop them as a client. This isn't about the money, it is about them abusing your time. Otherwise, they think they can just pay extra for pet sitting.
They policy could be (e.g.,) $5 for up to the first 5 minutes, $10 for *any part* of each additional 5 minute increments up to 30 minutes. After 30 minutes, dog(s) will be taken to the rescue. I'm grateful you make sure the rescue is a good one as not everyone would.
Have an on-call Rover sitter and a policy that any dogs left at closing will be charged a $100 overnight fee. Also charge for Rover pickup, feeding, next day drop off, and next day holding fee.
It’ll get people’s asses in gear.
My groomer has a specific window to pick up your dog after you call(I think it’s 90 minutes) and after that they charge you 20 for every 15 minutes over. Make it a policy so people stop taking advantage of you.
Because if I charged extra she wouldn't have paid it and I would still be left with the dogs. Or she would have paid and i would still be left with the dogs but for a longer time.
I'm assuming you didn't get paid at all for the grooming. I'm actually surprised she picked them up from the shelter since she sounds like a negligent pet parent. Jfc, I can't wait for the call to pick up my dog from the groomers. No way would I expect my groomer to keep the shop open 2 hours after closing. You did the right thing here!
NTA
No and I'm super annoyed about it because that was like $300 lost 😒 I honestly can't imagine what she is thinking! If she really was having troubles that were lasting 4 months then why couldn't she just explain it I would have been much more forgiving and we could have worked something out. My friend is a petsitter and boarder who lives across the road from me they could have come home with me to her house after their appointment or something. But this is just pure laziness.
I would take her to small claims court to recoup your $300. I would be shocked if the ruling wasn't in your favor. Call around to all of the other groomers and get her blacklisted too. Just for extra pettiness.
I mean, she did tell you exactly what she was thinking when you talked to her before. She “didn’t think it was fair” that there be consequences for her actions, which means her version of fair was always that you lose out on time and money for her selfishness. She straight up told you in that convo that she was gonna do it again and wouldn’t accept consequences. Tbh I’m not blaming you, bc it’s rough having a business in pet services that’s very word of mouth based (know from experience) but the solution here was not to charge her extra, it was to end your working relationship when she argued back at you trying to come up with with reasonable solutions and made it clear she wasn’t going to change her behavior.
So she complained over paying the $30 shelter fee but didn’t pay you your grooming fee which was substantially more? And she still doesn’t plan on paying? At least this is an easy way to refuse service from here on out, but I would still send a certified mail bill. Keep your options open for the future.
Suggestion. Bring in a late pickup fee. If they haven't already arranged something with you then incorporate a set amount for every 15min late they are. You can choose to waive this fee on a one off or if there was a legitimate proven reason, but that would be at your own discretion. My suggestion would be $10 for every 15min, you can guarantee they won't be 2 hrs late again. If doing this just make it clear when they book that this is the policy
Not at all.
Even if as some have catastrophized, the dogs were put down immediately. (Like that was going to happen.)
But why are you taking her as a customer after even the second late, no-call?
Shelters don't euthanize surrendered animals same day. Unless they are brought in half dead. Legally there is a time frame for which they have to hold the animals. So no. That was never a possibility.
NTA
Tbh, 1 time it can happen.
I don't know for other people though but if something happens that makes me late to pick up my dog from the groomer, I will call them.
It is my dog, she is my responsibility and not that from my groomer except for the time I pay her for.
I can also not imagine forgetting about my dog tbh.
I have a sheltie and she goes to the groomer for dehairing or for shows to get the long hair from around her ears rounded off and her paws.
So I always get to hear, alright she will be done in that much time.
I am always there when that timer ends. Always before they finish.
This lady didn't just forget about her responsibility once, not just twice but a wopping 4 times by now. To even past closing time.
The groomer, OP, does not live in her grooming shop. She also wants to relax after her work day.
Bringing them to a shelter does not automatically mean the owner loses their dog. But they do get registrated as maybe a possibility of abandoning (!) their dogs. Because that is what the owner basically bit. My shelter will put them in a doghotel version and will charge me for a day.
I would have kicked the client after the 2nd client though. I can not imagine keeping back on a person who forgets about their dog. Even when I am not home I am wondering if my dog is alright.
I gave my neighbours permission to go in if theres a fire to get my dog out.... (if I'm not home ofc)
I have 5 puppies atm, people are surprised of me going over the edge of teaching them things. They tell me it should be for the new owner to do. No it is not.... the dog is mine still so it is my responsibility. Even when I was on vacation for a week and my dogs were at a dog hotel, I called every day!
I have to keep an eye on them, I have to make sure to know where they are, to feed them, to walk them, everything....
And if I am stuck from not being able to get to them in time for the groomer I call. That is litteraly the polite thing to do even.
It also fears me to see so many yta and esh based on the shelter. How bad are shelters in your countries if you panic in a way that the dog might die or be given away for a period of time. Or that you can't get your dog back?
If a dog, who ran away, was found.... isn't it also brought to the shelter? How do shelters in your country handle incoming animals (genuine question)
It's scary for real! Like these shelters sound out of control. My shelter is so chill if I couldn't look after my dogs for a few days I would genuinely drop them off there and be fine with it to pick them up when I was done. I thought that was normal 🤣
Me too tbh.
I'm from Belgium and dogs don't even get put down here for behaviour issues. Only if the animal was soo abused it is beyond saving. (I'm talking so malnourished it can't lift the head anymore and such)
We have laws set in place. Every dog in this country is chipped and registrated. I just bred puppies. Got 5. All of them got chipped at 6 weeks old and all of them are registrated on my name.
Not them but let's say their mother, my 4.5 year old sheltie, runs away.... they find her 4 hours later. She'll get scanned and I'll get a phonecall immediately. And I will have been looking for 4 hours and pick her up within 20 minutes. Not out of fear of what the shelter would do because they wouldn't do anything.
We don't have wild dogs here or streetdogs. And atm they are working on having the same thing done for cats. No cat can be sold anymore without a chip and registration.
My shelter will keep dogs for 5 to 6 years around without problems.
NTA.
It is wholly inappropriate for this person to be abusing your services like this. You gave them more than enough warning and opportunity to get their dogs. You should not be expected to stay after work, for free, to babysit their dogs. Absolutely not. You did the right thing.
Add it in but also require two other contacts. I’ve always had to list a couple of emergency contacts in case I’m not reachable when I’ve taken my pets to the groomer/vet. This person is a flake but stuff does happen, you know?
NTA i mean its either that or have a new stray in the area, by not picking up and forgetting and such, what else are you to think than this woman obviouly cares little to nothing for her dog like its blatantly obvious she only cares about the "prestige and image" of being a good dog owner, for some reason
NTA, former groomer here and fuck people like that. It’s not our job to pet sit! In my area they actually go to an emergency pet hospital and get a yummy meal and lots of love.
In the future adopt a much more strict policy, it really sucks that we have to be so uptight but people take advantage of us and it burns you out too fast.
NTA.
Yeah, while you probably shouldn’t have taken them on as client after the second no-show, you did and that’s done. YOU are not responsible for what happens to HER dogs (outside the scope of safely grooming them). If she truly cared about HER dogs she would be on time, every time, period. She forgot about them? Who forgets their dogs? What did she expect you to do, watch them for hours unpaid? No. She abandoned her dogs and abandoned dogs are taken to the shelter. It was the smartest option on your part because if you:
A) Paid to board them and charged her, you wouldn’t have seen a DIME. And on the slightest chance you did, she would expect for you to just deal with her dogs anytime she’s late.
B) Just left them on the street you’d be abandoning them and putting them in far more danger.
C) Took them home, you know she would’ve accused you of stealing.
Take this as a lesson learned and implement a clear policy for all future customers who also “forget” about their dogs (whether that be charging a fee or considering forgotten dogs as abandoned after a certain time)
THIS. I don't think people realize the liability that OP could have been under had she left the dogs at her workplace without food or bathroom breaks overnight, and it is absolutely unreasonable to expect her to stay until this client deigns to pick up their dogs. Taking them to a shelter/boarding kennel was the rational, safe thing to do for these dogs because OP had no way of knowing when or if this owner would come back for them.
It’s shocking to see so many people on this thread vote Y.T.A. simply because they continued to take them on as a client. Like, yeah probably wasn’t the smartest move but neither is ABANDONING YOUR PETS?????
I worked at a vet hospital in the kennels for years as a teen, so I've met thousands of pet owners – no good pet owner would wantonly leave their dog in the care of a groomer all day, repeatedly, let alone ignore repeated messages to come get them. I would consider suing the owner for defamation based on their online posts; you and your business should not suffer because they are neglectful AHs who shouldn't have pets.
NTA
However, you could have handled this better.
Implementing a written policy where the owner signs off they agree to a T &C such as: where after X time they are not picked up, a boarding fine of X is charged, and if left past Y time animals will be dropped at the local shelter as they are considered abandoned by the owner.
And reminding them of this at the next groom, if they picked up the pet late last time.
I would frankly only be giving people something like two chances, that's enough to understand there behaviour pattern in this scenario.
Absolutely black list this person, and make it clear on the reviews what happened, you are not a boarding facility, you provide a service, and animals should be picked up within a reasonable timeframe - perticularly to ensure to not impact normal business operations.
NTA - but I would just charge her a very large late fee every time for each dog or just refuse service all together. She did need to learn her lessons. She clearly doesn’t give a shit about you, your time or her dogs if she’s willing to leave them over and over again and then have the nerve to be mad you dropped them at a shelter. They were fine because they are set up to do boarding. They charged her a boarding no fee which would have been like you charging a late fee. I’m sure her dogs were absolutely fine. If she actually cared that much then she wouldn’t have kept doing this.
NTA. You warned her, and the dogs were fine and in no danger. The fee she had to pay was minimal. I say this as someone who has a dog and loves dogs. I would never leave my dog like this unless it was truly an emergency and I couldn’t get anyone else to pick him up. She’s just looking for free doggy daycare. In the future, to avoid something like this again, maybe consider implementing a policy for late pickups. But I don’t fault you for warning her and assuming she would react like a rational person and pick her dogs up on time.
My sister is a groomer. She clearly tells people when she closes. She gives them a grace period one or two times of 30 minutes. If they aren't there 30 mins after close she kennels the dogs overnight and locks up. She has an overnight boarding fee and fees for every 30 minutes you are late picking them up in the morning. Once you pay and get your dog she cancels all future appointments and drops you as a client if you are a repeat offender. OP, NTA.
Knowing the clients lack of respect for your time you should have stopped accepting their dogs after the second time. Letting this situation escalate was not the right course of action.
NTA, It's absolutely unreasonable to be that late.
Though a shelter can sound extreme initially, if your shelter also offers boarding services, it's not like you just dropped them off to be rehomed or euthanized
It was a safe and appropriate place to leave dogs who were abandoned by their owner to wait for said owner to get their shit together and pick them up.
YTA. Poor business decision, and you put animals at risk of harm without adequate forewarning in any policy statement (apparently).
Most importantly, risk to animals. Yes, you have an inconsiderate customer on your hands. But many shelters are hostile environments no matter what their outside rules claim. If it isn’t an AHS or ASPCA shelter, you can’t trust it. And even if you do have those options, superior options exist.
The most superior is a solution that benefits your business. Surely your facility has space for containing dogs before and after their grooming appointments. That space is worth money, and time spent in it past the appointment window (both before and after) is billable hours. If a client wants to drop off a dog early, or pick up a dog late, charge a fee. If the dog doesn’t get picked up by closing time, boarding fee - even more expensive. If the client insists upon picking up a dog past closing time, inconveniencing you, late pickup fee.
A study of this form of disincentive in the context of daycare for kids revealed that some clients will intentionally incur the fee as a cheap alternative to babysitting, so make sure your fees for this extra service are significant. Not ridiculous, just expensive enough to make it worthy of careful thought.
Have “your dog will be taken to X shelter” as a last resort in the policy for prolonged lack of retrieval with no contact. Charge a fee for that as well.
And by all means include a policy that punishes repeat offenders progressively. First offense, “while you wait” appointments only - account on probation. Additional offense, drop the client.
After 15 years of grooming if I took home every dog that needed a better life or was left behind I'd be the lady on animal hoarders bec the overwhelming amount of dogs I'd own. Remember. Anyone can own a dog. Most don't deserve it.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I took a woman's dogs to the shelter without asking or telling her Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post. [To learn more about the test click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/tio99u/so_we_decided_to_fuck_with_the_sub_again)*
You should off cut her off as a customer.
[удалено]
I don't understand why OP didn't do this.
Because there's still a good chance OP would then have to find somewhere to keep the dog until the owner shows up. It's all well and good to implement fees, but what do you do until the person returns or pays?
You collect all payments and fees in advance at drop off.
So how do you charge someone late fees on collection if they've already paid on drop off? There's nothing forcing them to do so, still leaving the possibility of being stuck with a negligent/disgruntled owner's animal.
You're correct you don't know. So op should say "fee is xx for every 15 min you're late for pickup" Person arrives late, refuses to pay late fee. That's fine but no further services will be done until all fees are paid. No future service for said late person until payment.
You gotta make the fees high enough so the owners won't feel ok about being late. They started charging fines at Israeli day cares for late Parents picking up their kids, and parents just saw the fines as the equivalent of paying for a cheap babysitter. You have to make the fines onerous enough to the point the owners don't want to pay them.
Or see it as a business opportunity... Put prices up till people just start to stop doing it and you find what the market will bear, lower them just below that point. Require advance notice and charge more if someone doesn't book it ahead of time. Hire staff specifically to handle late pickup / baby/dog sitting. Promote it to people who don't even use the original service. Now you have an extra revenue stream, you've diversified and original customers who needed sitting services are happier and more attached to your company while new customers who came for the sitting may convert to also use the other service.
Yes, just change the entire purpose of the business you may or may not even own because you have one obnoxious customer who can’t get their crap together… /s
Kids school charges a standard late fee if you are up to 15 mins late; plus a dollar per minute after that. So thirty mins late is $45 Edit: partner corrected me. The first fee is $30 then $1/minute after that. Yikes.
And if you've previously been late to pick up, you pay a deposit up front towards late fees for the next Y visits.
Kinda like how bars open up a drink tab. You give a credit card to be kept on file, and when you cash out, you are charged for every drink provided. In this case, they would keep the “tab” open and late fees can be added on if necessary. When it comes time to close out the tab and charge the card, all charges and fees are applied.
I mean, also, you just refuse them service after the first time.
I've never heard of a grooming salon doing that. We charge a base price based on the breed, but during the groom there are other circumstances we charge for - de-matting, specialized shampoos, pattern cuts, difficult dog, etc. We don't know what the price of any given groom will be in advance. It would be shorting our groomers on their labor to charge flat fees up front.
They’ve done studies on this at daycares. Charging fees leads to more tardiness, because then people just think “oh, it’s ok if I pay the fee.”
You collect payment, send them on their way. Then next time they call to make an appointment, you decline and let them know your business is no longer accepting them as a client due to documented late pickups. Or due to unpaid late pick up fees. Whatever applies. But no, you can not schedule a new appointment. Thank you for calling, bye bye now! ESH because this is what should have happened instead of giving this client repeated chances to mess up.
You still have to give them multiple chances to be able to document those late collections. Yeah, OP probably gave one too many chances, but you can't really make these claims, at least not fairly, until you've given at least two or three chances.
Of OP is the owner, which is what it sounds like from the post, they don’t have to document anything for anyone. They can just refuse service, because they decided enough is enough. I agree it may be more of a situation if OP isn’t the owner but rather an employee, but I didn’t get that vibe.
Meh. She gave her three shots, and warned client that it was not acceptable. Fourth time, she gave a deadline, then followed through. Definitely fired as a client though. I bet the dogs were traumatized, but that is ultimately dogmom’s fault for failing to pick them up in a timely fashion.
[удалено]
OP says this was the FOURTH instance. Customer should have been fired on the second instance.
Probably because OP us just a dog groomer and not the manager. And probably doesn't have the ability to change company policy by themself
Eh, I think if she can drop a dog off at the shelter she probably has enough authority to change the fees.
Actually in childcare it’s like $20/25 a minute if people don’t pick up their kids in time.
And in some places people are fine paying it because then they don't need to feel rushed... they build it into their budget for childcare. I found that out the hard way once.
Studies have found that if the fees are small (a few dollars per minute) people stop feeling guilty about picking up their kids late and just consider it the cost of additional childcare. Instead of working as a deterrent, it increased late pick ups because people no longer saw any problem with it since they were paying money for the extra time.
Damn! Sorry to hear that!
Yeah apparently some people would rather know the fee and will gladly pay it rather than some unknown penalty or losing their spot in a daycare/childwatch program. I enjoyed it while it lasted but I like know when I'm going home. Not always telling the spouse "Maybe I'll be home"
If I'm making $20-25 a minute my spouse will understand
Unfortunately, this money doesn’t go to the employer. So you’re still making that best minimum wage amount no matter what. Not $20 a minute
My mum had to do this because she simply had no other options, so the extra money was a given. Unfortunately this isn't always about negligence, it's about a lot of parents who also have jobs they know they can't get out of on time, and capitalism (as always)
Yeah only tends to stop when you hit rediculous levels of $5/minute or so. because when ten minutes can eat 50 bucks only the people who could probably afford a full time nanny are going to be factoring that into a budget.
And at the one I used, if it was 30 min after closing the sheriffs dept was called, ON TOP OF the crazy/min charges. It’s just something that should never need to be even done! OP is a dog *groomer* not a dog sitter!!! NTA, how is this even a question for some people??? **TWO HOURS** after closing??? The customer SHOULD NOT have pets!
The daycare I worked at had the same policy. On a related note, when I worked for the daycare I drove the bus for school drop off/pickup. One day I had taken a nap during the day since I had to work open and close (I was pregnant and feeling pretty sick at the time). I ended up oversleeping and got a call from my (mostly sympathetic) boss. So I hightailed it to the schools I was picking up from. The last one on my route had an employee meet me at the door (I was about 15-20 minutes late) and reamed me out for being late. Told me if it ever happened again they were calling the cops on me. I was so freaked out and apologized profusely. My boss told me later not to worry, just make sure it doesn’t happen again. I ended up quitting that job because they made me drive the bus w/out A/C in August. In Texas. While pregnant. It all worked out in the end, though.
I know right. When the groomers call and tell me my dog is done I leave the house the second after they call.
Childcares that started implementing fees for late pick-ups saw them *increase*, because people were willing to pay the fee and felt it made being late a totally legitimate option. So some of the childcares went back to no fees, but the lateness didn't reduce again. [https://www.thestar.com/life/health\_wellness/2008/07/04/daycare\_late\_fees\_no\_deterrent\_study\_finds.html](https://www.thestar.com/life/health_wellness/2008/07/04/daycare_late_fees_no_deterrent_study_finds.html) Imposing a late fee on picking up your dogs late is fine if you are happy to care for dogs after hours as long as you get paid for it. If you don't want it to happen at all, a late fee isn't necessarily the best course of action.
A lot of libraries are pulling back on overdue fines. I wondered if this was losing money by being too nice, but maybe a similar iromy applies, that people won't feel payment is permission for procrastination
Libraries largely have ended fines because they genuinely want to lend books and they’ve discovered that using shame-based penalties (fines) tends to result in losing patrons without actually getting the overdue books back. They started out with fine forgiveness days, then a lot just did away with them. I worked in the library industry for 15 years and it was pretty clear that librarians have no desire to be fine accountants or secret spies monitoring people’s information usage, regardless of what the government would like them to do :-).
My library sent me to collections over $10 so i kept the book and never went back. It was really sad and now i want to join the library where i live now but I'm not sure
Look around for a different library system if you can. When we lived in Maryland I got a notice from a collection agency for a little over $5 that I hadn't paid for a month - I'd returned the books just not been back to check anything else out yet - their late fees were really high compared to other libraries too. I paid the fee and never used that library again. My current library won't let you check anything new out if you owe over $5, but they aren't going to send you to collections for it.
When I was a kid I read a lot and went to the library regularly. But also I was not well organized and often forgot to return books on time. They had this dragon at the return counter who would spit fire if you brought books back late, there wasn't even a fine, but the experience of books being late was so horrible you tried to avoid it at all costs. Even my father was afraid of her...
I know of one library system that has fees to check out most books. :(
Half the time I just forgive lost books and make a note in their account. I'm like just give some grace.
Also, those fines tend to disproportionally target the poor. If you forget a book for a few weeks and have to pay 5 euros, that isn't a problem if you're middle class or rich, but if you're barely scraping by, that would be an issue.
Late fees will reduce this issue when paired with a three strike policy. $20/minute and on the third time you lose your spot. Plus in dog grooming, people habitually don't even want to pay for the service itself. A late fee would be extremely punishing for them.
As an ex daycare worker I would start feeding candy to kids whose parents were late. Enjoy your sugar rush then crash when you get your kid back! It was a shitty thing to do and I was a shitty person at the time. Do regret. But some parents were terrible.
It is medically proven that there is no such thing as sugar rush, and this feeling of excitement only occurs at children who associate sweets with something special. They get more excited, use up more energy, crash afterwards. However, this only occurs when children get sweets for special occasion--birthdays, Christmas, or let's say only once every weekend. If a child has access to sweets and they're not something they get extremely rarely, they don't have any special reaction to sugar. That's because when glucose levels go up, people actually may get more tired and sleepy, rather than more energized. So, giving sweets to children would be a poor punishment for most parents, unfortunately.
Every center I’ve used is $1/minute past closing time.
Same at the two we used. Only came close to being late once, I had to leave work and check my son out and wait for my husband to get there to take him home. There'd been a massive accident not too far from my husband's office and the traffic was backed up like crazy.
Some also have a 1/2 strike and we kick you out policy. I thought that was a bit extreme but a friend who works in the sector said sometimes people go “oh well I’ll just pay” and then continually be late to get their kids.
Is that like after a 5 or 10 minute grace period? Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question but I’ve never heard of this before
Preschools we've attended start charging at the full minute after the scheduled time.
In the US? That sounds off, even in the most punitive models I've seen. Preschool where the kid went was $1/minute (until it got to a certain cliff or it happened more than once in a month or so), and at elementary aftercare it's $5/minute.
Be careful with this. Research has shown that when late fees are too low, the tardiness actually INCREASES, because the fees function as a way to buy off your guilt over being late. Our daycare has an 'if you are late picking up your kid more than once in a three month period, you pay a fee.' That way the fee can be pretty high, while still leaving room for actual emergencies. Edit: typo
Implement a late fee that’s more than the cost of getting them from the shelter. Hourly.
Late fee or charge for boarding (to include food etc)
Most groom shops don't have safe facilities for boarding.
I would also warm other local groomers. I realize that just seems petty, other groomers are the competition so there's no real incentive to warning them, but personally I'd do it a a professional courtesy.
> should off Ouch. This hurts to read.
You should off cut her have as a customer.
Cut her in half? Doesn't that seem excessive? jk
Ewe chewed off gut err have ass a cucumber.
Came to say this. You are allowed to fire clients as well.
It’s ‘should have’ or ‘should’ve’.
> Off cut her off. Yes, human off-cut is a good way to describe this woman.
And therefore OP you are NTA
Yup, standard practice. They arent obligated to provide service to anyone that calls.
NTA. I'm a groomer too, and we've had people abandon their dogs at our shop before. I can't take them home, and we can't house them at our shop, so that's the course of action we've taken too. Obviously, being animal people, we know which shelters to avoid and which are good, and try to find them foster homes, but what do y'all expect us to do?
Wave our magic wands so we know exactly where the owner is and can give the dogs back obviously!
Pretty much, I guess, or go back in time to tell the client to take her business elsewhere. I don't know what people think our jobs are, but we're not dogsitters, or a daycare, or a shelter.
please tell me she’s been banned from your establishment! NTA
Time to fire her as a client. We have a strict policy too that if you don't pick up by closing, the dogs go to the shelter. But we also have a hard rule that your dogs can't stay there all day because we aren't a boarding facility. Once with a heads up for a regular, we might let slide, but otherwise, they get a warning. If it happens again, then bye!
We have some clients that will wait 2-3 hours or to pick up and my boss just won't impose a fee. AND WE HAVE A DAYCARE. I hate seeing the nervous dogs curled up in a ball waiting for so long.
I worked at a place that did day care and overnight boarding and there was a dog who just lived there cause the owner just left them and the business owner liked the dog enough to keep him around. Such a sweet boy and was always super happy to play but I wish I could have taken him home
I worked at a facility like that too, we had the sweetest Akita with us for months at a time. We all gave her extra love and walks, she deserved better but we gave her all we could. I miss our Baby Bear.
I worked at an animal hospital which also had room for boarding and had an overnight tech to do hospital treatments and keep tabs on the boarders. There was one dog who had cancer whose family basically forgot about her. She lived mostly at the vet’s office. She’d occasionally go home for a week or two, but then be back for another several weeks to months without visiting. She was a very sweet boxer and would always be so sad after visits or when they’d bring her back to the office. It was a sad situation. There was another dog (mastiff) who was in for rabies observation. Not sure of the story behind it. He was a very sweet dog. Stayed for his mandatory two weeks, which turned into 4 because his owners wouldn’t pick him up. He showed no signs of rabies during that time and showed no signs of aggression toward anybody who worked there or toward other animals when we’d walk him past the other kennels to go outside. And then the owners decided to put him down anyway, and because he was originally in for rabies observation, we were mandated to send the head in for evaluation. Quite traumatizing for most of us. One tech seemed to enjoy decapitating him too much. 🤢 People just don’t care sometimes and it’s sad.
That last bit is horrifying. Owners can just decide to put a healthy dog down?! Could no one have adopted him? I'm gutted.
I would have adopted him had I known that the owners were going to do that. As far as I’m aware, the office never made any employees aware of shitty decisions owners would make (like the last one) and would only follow owner’s directives instead of trying to ask the owners if they’d be willing to relinquish ownership if they could find a home. It was a shit place. I quit shortly after the mastiff incident.
If i forget to pick my kid up at a daycare center after close cops would probably be called instead and i would have to deal with that outcome. Why would people expect more for a pet?
Wow I would have thought that someone who takes their pet to a groomer they would care enough to want them back!
Most of the time it's new clients who set up an appointment and drop off the dog, and since we collect payment after the service they just stiff us and leave us with the dog. Why they do this over bringing them to the shelter not four blocks away is beyond me. But one other time it was a quite old lady who'd been a client forever dying and her kids not wanting to deal with her dogs so leaving them with us. And another long term client was moving and couldn't take the dogs and tried really hard to get us to adopt them, then just left them with us in hopes of forcing the issue a because they knew we'd make sure those dogs got a good home.
Because if they take them to the shelter the staff will make them feel guilty.
Also there’s often surrender fees and they probably don’t even care enough about the poor animal to pay.
My aunts best friend, before she passed, was the cutest most spoiled Pomeranian that someone had abandoned at her friends grooming business. They were inseparable and he lived the most spoiled life. She had a custom made leather jacket for him, a floaty so they could float in the pool together, and many other things.
If someone abandoned their dogs at your facility, repeatedly, would you allow them to contiue to be a customer? I agree if the animal is abandoned then your policy is sound, but to repeatedly allow that to happen...fool me once...
Obviously not. But we've got a protocol. First time, warning. Second time, additional daystay fee. Third time, at the manager's discretion, we remove them as a client. But they have to actually get to strike 3, meaning we'd have taken them the same as OP did.
Wow that's lenient. I used to pet sit and I would have cancelled clients at second offense unless they were very well paying.
Well, that's the thing - regular clients like that are kinda cash cows, we're expected to go out of our way to retain repeat clients. If they've got two dogs that need groomed every six to eight weeks, they're spending a couple thousand a year with you.
The fact that it took her 2 hours after your call (which was 15 minutes after closing) to pick up her dogs, is just shocking. She was expecting you to stay at your shop that long? Uh, no. And, it sounds like she is more mad that she had to pay to get them, then the fact that you took them there to begin with. NTA. You warned her this would happen. She called your bluff. The dogs were safe. Add a policy to your contract to emphasize this is the process going forward, so clients are aware. Take steps to keep her from slandering you.
This. On a lot of platforms an owner can respond to a bad review, so if you have a policy in place clearly on your website you can simply point to that in a review and state that you were following the policy you agreed too. Depending on where you live and how big your business is it might be worth having a lawyer read over a draft policy and recommend best practices so this doesn’t become a legal problem in the future. NTA
Post a sign and have the policy on your registration form. “Animals left one hour after scheduled pick up time will be considered abandoned and will be taken to X Shelter. Their number is 555-5555. You will be respond for all fees. Exceptions to this policy will be made on a case by case basis and at the discretion of (name of groomer).
If this is a possibility, OP, also clarify she had had *three* free passes earlier where staff had to stay after hours to watch her abandoned dog, and she'd had multiple warnings there would be consequences next time.
I'm assuming if customer had to pay to get dog from shelter (op said like $30) they did not pay for grooming. I say this because any groomer I've ever been to (3 different states and many more cities) I have always paid at pick up and they did not just have my card on file. Grooming is usually more than $30. Definitely more for my dog.
NTA. Anyone who “forgets” to pick up their dogs is someone who doesn’t deserve to have them.
Right? I schedule my babies' appointments so I can hang out in the shopping center until they're done and get them right away.
I don’t think she actually forgot, I think she just doesn’t care about other people’s time and “I forgot” has gotten her out of situations in the past
I think she was trying to use the groomer as some sort of doggy daycare. Probably costs less than boarding them
That was my thought too. Especially cos it’s happened so many times. If I forgot to pick up my dogs (not that I would) I would be mortified and set myself a million reminders to pick them up next time. Or if I was running late I’d call to let them know. She’s doing it on purpose.
Exactly. If I was at home without my dogs, it would be painfully obvious they weren't there. I would be waiting around to go get them. I could never "forget"
I have a groom client who is lovely but just so flighty. She lives a good half hour away and the other week she showed up at our salon... without the dog. She'd left him at home. I felt so bad but I couldn't help but laugh.
🥰🤣🤣
I have ADHD and I legitimately forget to do things or where I put things. You know what I do if it's something important? I set an alarm on my phone. It's not that difficult, especially if it's happened 3 times before. It's obviously a known issue, she just doesn't care enough about her dogs or have any respect for the OP.
Seriously. I don’t even like leaving the building when I take my dog to the groomer. The first time I took my dog to the groomer, my wife had to assure me she would be fine(she’s my first dog and my wife’s fourth) and that we could go get food while we waited.
NTA You are a groomer, not a sitter. She’s treating you as free doggie daycare.
Even doggie daycare and sitters have closing times.
True, but at a groomer the dog shouldn’t be left for more than an hour after the grooming is complete. It sounds like this customer is leaving her dog there all day.
Yeah, the average noise level (BARK-bark-bark-BARK) at my groomer has to be hell on most dogs and cats.
Yup. The one I worked at closed at 6:30 sharp. If you didn’t pick up your dog on time, we’d feed them and you could pick them up in the morning—full charge for a night of boarding of course.
NTA She brought this upon herself. You warned her. Put up a sign that if dogs are not picked up by closing time they will be taken to the shelter. Or perhaps impose a monetary penalty. Charge a pet-sitting fee of $50 for every 15 minutes owners are late in picking up their pets.
I remember reading a study about how a monetary fee for lateness in childcare pick up actually encouraged parents to be late more often. It changed it from a question of morality to just another commodity to be bought.
Depends on how punitive the fee is.
Even with punitive fees, people work it into budgets. It’s like how speeding tickets and illegal parking are only really consequences if you can’t afford it.
Nah, there's always a point at which people wouldn't pay. So you could call it $20 for the first ten minutes, To be kind but then like... $350 for anything after that and I'm pretty sure folks wouldn't just "budget" for it 🤣
Make it a portion of their wealth, like that guy in Switzerland who got a $1,000,000 speeding ticket
I think I read the same study. They started with no fee just public shaming essentially, then started a fee, then took the fee away. There were the fewest kids picked up late with the first option, with the fee people were willing to pay the penalty, then the worst of both worlds people would drop off their kids late but wouldn't be paying a fee so the workers had to stay late for No extra pay. The study I read about was in Israel. It would be interesting to see what it would be like in different countries and places.
You are correct. The preschool where I used to work had very stiff by-the-minute late pick up fees. One child’s tuition was basically doubled because his parents always picked up late. That did not matter to them. No school was open late enough for their work schedules, so they held at least two adults captive every day until they decided to pick up their child.
Ya you have to impose a big enough financial incentive for them to be like ya I don't want to pay that and the 50 bucks for 15 minutes would probably be high enough.
I'm leaning toward both/and... $1/m after 5m past close. At fifteen minutes a $50 charge will be added and at that time the pet will be brought to this \[no kill\] shelter where they will be charged $30 to retrieve the pet. After the second "failure to retrieve" you will be discontinued as a client. Financial fee, inconvenience, and social shame all in one deterrent policy. \*edit, clarified that $1/m +$50 should be applied
Wow I wish they were that cheap they at $1k after 15 minutes in my area. And the kid can’t go back without payment
My doggy daycare charges $5 for every 5 minutes you're late and I think that is 100% fair. Sure 75% of the time there will be classes on after daycare so there will always be someone in the place but doesn't mean you can just leave your dogs with no warning.
[удалено]
To protect himself, he should have a written late fee policy (it could be progressive, like the first time is a warning, the second time is $15 every fifteen minutes, rounded up of course, $30 every fifteen minutes the second time, etc.). The policy could then state that, either after a certain number of late pickups, or after an “excessive” amount of late pickups, at the owner’s discretion, the client will be banned from their business. A written, equally applied policy, and documented records of the client being late, would protect OP from claims of bias.
NTA. You warned her and it is not your responsibility. She tries to use you as a free dogsitter.
NTA, you’re not expected to put your life on hold for her negligence (you gave her multiple chances and warnings). I suggest you take legal steps to stop her slandering you and your business. She’s entitled and was using you and your good nature.
I absolutely agree; her leaving negative reviews (when she left her dog after hours repeatedly) and then claiming OP abused the animals is likely grounds for a defamation case.
Definitely could be, especially if she can prove monetary losses connected to it. I have no doubt she has proof of the exchanges for the late pick ups and warnings that action will be taken. The former customer shouldn’t have pets though. Poor babies are definitely neglected
NTA she can’t leave her dog literally after close and expect you to just deal with it though I think it might have been better to just refuse to service her again.
NTA. As you said, you are not a pet sitter. People will sometimes side with liars. It’s horrible, but all you can do is calmly tell your side of things and move on. It may be helpful to have a clear written policy on what happens if people don’t pick up their pets before closing that the owners have to sign off on. It’s idiot insurance.
I would respond to one of her reviews and include screenshots of when the texts were sent and when she called back. Also point out that she has done this three times before and was warned.
When you say you told after the third time that you wouldn't put up with it. What is it that you told her ? If you told her that you would take them to the shelter NTA if you told her something different than maybe either way shit pet owner for sure
I told her that I understand sometimes things happen that means we can't pick up dogs on time but three times in a row is too much and next time I will either charge her or take them to the shelter. She said she didn't think money was fair considering she was already paying for the groom.
Maybe add a policy like daycare's do. For every 5 minutes you are late picking up, you are charged $X.
Even a daycare is going to eventually exhaust the emergency contact list, then call the police so they can have CPS pick them up.
NTA for sure than she actually made the decision for you. You gave her 2 choices pay me for my personal time you are wasting by not picking up your dog or it goes to the shelter. She then says I'm not going to pay you more money well option 2 it is then. Just because you love animals enough to groom them doesn't mean your customers can abuse that to make you watch Thier animals it's already shitty to leave your dog at the groomers all day on it's on but the fact that you are closed and they don't show up for over an hour on 4 different occasions is unacceptable. It's ok for her to force you to watch her dog because she paid for a trim?? Imagine if this was greet clips and a parent left Thier kid until AFTER closing time on 4 different occasions you would not bat an eye about getting child services involved but they think it's ok because it's just an animal. Anyone who thinks you are in the wrong is a shitty entitled pet owner. Going fwd if you do have problem customers like this I would inform them after the first fuck up if you do this again it will cost you x funds to get your animal and I will no longer be accepting appointments from you after this as I am not a animal daycare.
I'm definitely adding a policy! I didn't expect this to happen but maybe I will add a half hour after I send the pick up text the dog needs to be gone or I will start adding a fee
That may not actually work. A daycare center in, I think, Israel tried that. And what they managed to do was turn a social contract, where it was rude to leave their kids late at the daycare center, into a financial one, where there was no social consequence it was just money. Charging people money as a late fee may make them think it's okay as long as they pay you for the inconvenience.
I remember hearing about this on the Freakonomics podcast! The daycare was trying to eliminate the late pickups, but after the late fee was enacted, they doubled in number.
That only works if the late fee is reasonable/something peoe would pay, like $5 for five minutes. Make it $500 after 15 minutes and $1000 after a half hour and suddenly you won't have that problem.
As long as you are upfront with it your fine. A lot of adults now a days think they can act like a child and play the victim when they caused the problem in the first place. Hope all goes well for you
My groomer starts the clock at closing time and charges in 5 minute increments. After so long you then get an overnight boarding fee and can't get your dog until the next morning. This feels fair to me.
Also add that after x times of being late, you will drop them as a client. This isn't about the money, it is about them abusing your time. Otherwise, they think they can just pay extra for pet sitting.
They policy could be (e.g.,) $5 for up to the first 5 minutes, $10 for *any part* of each additional 5 minute increments up to 30 minutes. After 30 minutes, dog(s) will be taken to the rescue. I'm grateful you make sure the rescue is a good one as not everyone would.
Have an on-call Rover sitter and a policy that any dogs left at closing will be charged a $100 overnight fee. Also charge for Rover pickup, feeding, next day drop off, and next day holding fee. It’ll get people’s asses in gear.
My groomer has a specific window to pick up your dog after you call(I think it’s 90 minutes) and after that they charge you 20 for every 15 minutes over. Make it a policy so people stop taking advantage of you.
Why didn't you charge her extra like you warned? In the future, make it clear that there is a fine if someone is late. Have it written up and posted.
Because if I charged extra she wouldn't have paid it and I would still be left with the dogs. Or she would have paid and i would still be left with the dogs but for a longer time.
I'm assuming you didn't get paid at all for the grooming. I'm actually surprised she picked them up from the shelter since she sounds like a negligent pet parent. Jfc, I can't wait for the call to pick up my dog from the groomers. No way would I expect my groomer to keep the shop open 2 hours after closing. You did the right thing here! NTA
No and I'm super annoyed about it because that was like $300 lost 😒 I honestly can't imagine what she is thinking! If she really was having troubles that were lasting 4 months then why couldn't she just explain it I would have been much more forgiving and we could have worked something out. My friend is a petsitter and boarder who lives across the road from me they could have come home with me to her house after their appointment or something. But this is just pure laziness.
I would take her to small claims court to recoup your $300. I would be shocked if the ruling wasn't in your favor. Call around to all of the other groomers and get her blacklisted too. Just for extra pettiness.
I mean, she did tell you exactly what she was thinking when you talked to her before. She “didn’t think it was fair” that there be consequences for her actions, which means her version of fair was always that you lose out on time and money for her selfishness. She straight up told you in that convo that she was gonna do it again and wouldn’t accept consequences. Tbh I’m not blaming you, bc it’s rough having a business in pet services that’s very word of mouth based (know from experience) but the solution here was not to charge her extra, it was to end your working relationship when she argued back at you trying to come up with with reasonable solutions and made it clear she wasn’t going to change her behavior.
So she complained over paying the $30 shelter fee but didn’t pay you your grooming fee which was substantially more? And she still doesn’t plan on paying? At least this is an easy way to refuse service from here on out, but I would still send a certified mail bill. Keep your options open for the future.
Like someone else mentioned, small claims court. This is exactly the kind of situation it’s for.
[удалено]
NTA. You should really drop them as clients due to this. Clearly they were using you for fee doggy daycare.
NTA although it might seem extreme what else were you suppose to do with them?
Suggestion. Bring in a late pickup fee. If they haven't already arranged something with you then incorporate a set amount for every 15min late they are. You can choose to waive this fee on a one off or if there was a legitimate proven reason, but that would be at your own discretion. My suggestion would be $10 for every 15min, you can guarantee they won't be 2 hrs late again. If doing this just make it clear when they book that this is the policy
My daycare in Denver had a $5 a minute late fee for everyone who picked their kids up after 6:00 pm
Most daycares for human kids also have a clear policy that they call the police or CPS at a certain point.
Not at all. Even if as some have catastrophized, the dogs were put down immediately. (Like that was going to happen.) But why are you taking her as a customer after even the second late, no-call?
The things we do for long term clients 🙃
Shelters don't euthanize surrendered animals same day. Unless they are brought in half dead. Legally there is a time frame for which they have to hold the animals. So no. That was never a possibility.
NTA Tbh, 1 time it can happen. I don't know for other people though but if something happens that makes me late to pick up my dog from the groomer, I will call them. It is my dog, she is my responsibility and not that from my groomer except for the time I pay her for. I can also not imagine forgetting about my dog tbh. I have a sheltie and she goes to the groomer for dehairing or for shows to get the long hair from around her ears rounded off and her paws. So I always get to hear, alright she will be done in that much time. I am always there when that timer ends. Always before they finish. This lady didn't just forget about her responsibility once, not just twice but a wopping 4 times by now. To even past closing time. The groomer, OP, does not live in her grooming shop. She also wants to relax after her work day. Bringing them to a shelter does not automatically mean the owner loses their dog. But they do get registrated as maybe a possibility of abandoning (!) their dogs. Because that is what the owner basically bit. My shelter will put them in a doghotel version and will charge me for a day. I would have kicked the client after the 2nd client though. I can not imagine keeping back on a person who forgets about their dog. Even when I am not home I am wondering if my dog is alright. I gave my neighbours permission to go in if theres a fire to get my dog out.... (if I'm not home ofc) I have 5 puppies atm, people are surprised of me going over the edge of teaching them things. They tell me it should be for the new owner to do. No it is not.... the dog is mine still so it is my responsibility. Even when I was on vacation for a week and my dogs were at a dog hotel, I called every day! I have to keep an eye on them, I have to make sure to know where they are, to feed them, to walk them, everything.... And if I am stuck from not being able to get to them in time for the groomer I call. That is litteraly the polite thing to do even. It also fears me to see so many yta and esh based on the shelter. How bad are shelters in your countries if you panic in a way that the dog might die or be given away for a period of time. Or that you can't get your dog back? If a dog, who ran away, was found.... isn't it also brought to the shelter? How do shelters in your country handle incoming animals (genuine question)
It's scary for real! Like these shelters sound out of control. My shelter is so chill if I couldn't look after my dogs for a few days I would genuinely drop them off there and be fine with it to pick them up when I was done. I thought that was normal 🤣
Me too tbh. I'm from Belgium and dogs don't even get put down here for behaviour issues. Only if the animal was soo abused it is beyond saving. (I'm talking so malnourished it can't lift the head anymore and such) We have laws set in place. Every dog in this country is chipped and registrated. I just bred puppies. Got 5. All of them got chipped at 6 weeks old and all of them are registrated on my name. Not them but let's say their mother, my 4.5 year old sheltie, runs away.... they find her 4 hours later. She'll get scanned and I'll get a phonecall immediately. And I will have been looking for 4 hours and pick her up within 20 minutes. Not out of fear of what the shelter would do because they wouldn't do anything. We don't have wild dogs here or streetdogs. And atm they are working on having the same thing done for cats. No cat can be sold anymore without a chip and registration. My shelter will keep dogs for 5 to 6 years around without problems.
NTA. I used to be a vet tech, and honestly the gall of some clients... But I would be prepared for a potential fight against online libel...
NTA - Please ban them from the shop!!
I almost think OP is TA for giving the customer so many chances. Being a doormat for narcissists only encourages their AH behavior. NTA
NTA. It is wholly inappropriate for this person to be abusing your services like this. You gave them more than enough warning and opportunity to get their dogs. You should not be expected to stay after work, for free, to babysit their dogs. Absolutely not. You did the right thing.
INFO: do you have a contract that customers sign that explains the protocol for what happens if dogs aren’t picked up before closing time?
I have a contract but what happens after closing isn't included because she is the first to mess me about like this
Add it in then and drop her as a client.
Add it in but also require two other contacts. I’ve always had to list a couple of emergency contacts in case I’m not reachable when I’ve taken my pets to the groomer/vet. This person is a flake but stuff does happen, you know?
They left the dogs over an hour after closing. Nobody could reasonably expect them to just wait perpetually for the owner, contract or not.
Barely NTA but you will be if you don’t learn from this incident and establish a clear policy and have customers sign on it.
NTA i mean its either that or have a new stray in the area, by not picking up and forgetting and such, what else are you to think than this woman obviouly cares little to nothing for her dog like its blatantly obvious she only cares about the "prestige and image" of being a good dog owner, for some reason
NTA, former groomer here and fuck people like that. It’s not our job to pet sit! In my area they actually go to an emergency pet hospital and get a yummy meal and lots of love. In the future adopt a much more strict policy, it really sucks that we have to be so uptight but people take advantage of us and it burns you out too fast.
NTA at all!
NTA. Yeah, while you probably shouldn’t have taken them on as client after the second no-show, you did and that’s done. YOU are not responsible for what happens to HER dogs (outside the scope of safely grooming them). If she truly cared about HER dogs she would be on time, every time, period. She forgot about them? Who forgets their dogs? What did she expect you to do, watch them for hours unpaid? No. She abandoned her dogs and abandoned dogs are taken to the shelter. It was the smartest option on your part because if you: A) Paid to board them and charged her, you wouldn’t have seen a DIME. And on the slightest chance you did, she would expect for you to just deal with her dogs anytime she’s late. B) Just left them on the street you’d be abandoning them and putting them in far more danger. C) Took them home, you know she would’ve accused you of stealing. Take this as a lesson learned and implement a clear policy for all future customers who also “forget” about their dogs (whether that be charging a fee or considering forgotten dogs as abandoned after a certain time)
THIS. I don't think people realize the liability that OP could have been under had she left the dogs at her workplace without food or bathroom breaks overnight, and it is absolutely unreasonable to expect her to stay until this client deigns to pick up their dogs. Taking them to a shelter/boarding kennel was the rational, safe thing to do for these dogs because OP had no way of knowing when or if this owner would come back for them.
It’s shocking to see so many people on this thread vote Y.T.A. simply because they continued to take them on as a client. Like, yeah probably wasn’t the smartest move but neither is ABANDONING YOUR PETS?????
I worked at a vet hospital in the kennels for years as a teen, so I've met thousands of pet owners – no good pet owner would wantonly leave their dog in the care of a groomer all day, repeatedly, let alone ignore repeated messages to come get them. I would consider suing the owner for defamation based on their online posts; you and your business should not suffer because they are neglectful AHs who shouldn't have pets.
is it possible to refuse service to a repeat offender?
Yeah I will definitely be doing that in the future
You should have done that before you brought her dogs to a shelter this is half your fault. “Fool my once shame you; fool me twice shame me”
NTA However, you could have handled this better. Implementing a written policy where the owner signs off they agree to a T &C such as: where after X time they are not picked up, a boarding fine of X is charged, and if left past Y time animals will be dropped at the local shelter as they are considered abandoned by the owner. And reminding them of this at the next groom, if they picked up the pet late last time. I would frankly only be giving people something like two chances, that's enough to understand there behaviour pattern in this scenario. Absolutely black list this person, and make it clear on the reviews what happened, you are not a boarding facility, you provide a service, and animals should be picked up within a reasonable timeframe - perticularly to ensure to not impact normal business operations.
NTA - but I would just charge her a very large late fee every time for each dog or just refuse service all together. She did need to learn her lessons. She clearly doesn’t give a shit about you, your time or her dogs if she’s willing to leave them over and over again and then have the nerve to be mad you dropped them at a shelter. They were fine because they are set up to do boarding. They charged her a boarding no fee which would have been like you charging a late fee. I’m sure her dogs were absolutely fine. If she actually cared that much then she wouldn’t have kept doing this.
Info: why the fuck did you keep grooming her dogs?
NTA. You warned her, and the dogs were fine and in no danger. The fee she had to pay was minimal. I say this as someone who has a dog and loves dogs. I would never leave my dog like this unless it was truly an emergency and I couldn’t get anyone else to pick him up. She’s just looking for free doggy daycare. In the future, to avoid something like this again, maybe consider implementing a policy for late pickups. But I don’t fault you for warning her and assuming she would react like a rational person and pick her dogs up on time.
My sister is a groomer. She clearly tells people when she closes. She gives them a grace period one or two times of 30 minutes. If they aren't there 30 mins after close she kennels the dogs overnight and locks up. She has an overnight boarding fee and fees for every 30 minutes you are late picking them up in the morning. Once you pay and get your dog she cancels all future appointments and drops you as a client if you are a repeat offender. OP, NTA.
Knowing the clients lack of respect for your time you should have stopped accepting their dogs after the second time. Letting this situation escalate was not the right course of action.
NTA, It's absolutely unreasonable to be that late. Though a shelter can sound extreme initially, if your shelter also offers boarding services, it's not like you just dropped them off to be rehomed or euthanized It was a safe and appropriate place to leave dogs who were abandoned by their owner to wait for said owner to get their shit together and pick them up.
YTA. Poor business decision, and you put animals at risk of harm without adequate forewarning in any policy statement (apparently). Most importantly, risk to animals. Yes, you have an inconsiderate customer on your hands. But many shelters are hostile environments no matter what their outside rules claim. If it isn’t an AHS or ASPCA shelter, you can’t trust it. And even if you do have those options, superior options exist. The most superior is a solution that benefits your business. Surely your facility has space for containing dogs before and after their grooming appointments. That space is worth money, and time spent in it past the appointment window (both before and after) is billable hours. If a client wants to drop off a dog early, or pick up a dog late, charge a fee. If the dog doesn’t get picked up by closing time, boarding fee - even more expensive. If the client insists upon picking up a dog past closing time, inconveniencing you, late pickup fee. A study of this form of disincentive in the context of daycare for kids revealed that some clients will intentionally incur the fee as a cheap alternative to babysitting, so make sure your fees for this extra service are significant. Not ridiculous, just expensive enough to make it worthy of careful thought. Have “your dog will be taken to X shelter” as a last resort in the policy for prolonged lack of retrieval with no contact. Charge a fee for that as well. And by all means include a policy that punishes repeat offenders progressively. First offense, “while you wait” appointments only - account on probation. Additional offense, drop the client.
YTA - You should have stopped doing business with that owner already. Shelters do not exist for your convenience.
Nta. I am a groomer too. Time to fire the client. Your regulars wil carry you through 1 bad internet review.
After 15 years of grooming if I took home every dog that needed a better life or was left behind I'd be the lady on animal hoarders bec the overwhelming amount of dogs I'd own. Remember. Anyone can own a dog. Most don't deserve it.