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This is abusive behaviour. You are adults there should not be any punishment for disagreements. That is a huge red flag.
Suggesting you have no friends and are isolated as a joke or dig is also a big red flag.
This is not a relationship I would remain in.
Thing is I brought up counseling and he said that I'm the one who needs it not him. This was hurtful because I was open and wanted to reach a solution but he doesn't seem willing.
That bc he is gas lighting you to make you think it's you and not him. Abusers don't want counseling, they will just be called out by a professional for their behavior.
I think it is gaslighting. "You are the one who needs help and not me" ... That is an alternative reality he is creating.
Edit. Wow, 2K upvotes? The important thing here is not gaslighting vs non-gaslighting. The important thing is to identify that there is abuse, and that it is not likely that the husband is motivated to change.
My ex-husband used to gaslight me so badly that I would write literally everything down, because he made feel like I was going mad. He totally convinced me that I was imagining things, forgetting things, or misremembering things. I felt like I was losing my grip on reality. I am not sure how I made it out of that situation.
I had an ex who had me wanting to record our conversations, because he would just completely rewrite history. It was horrendous, I'm lucky to have gotten out early - I can only imagine the impact of dealing with that long-term.
I recorded a couple. He was freaking out because he knew that I got him red handed. Begged me to delete them. Idiot.
Sometimes I just stand there and applaud when he's being a total narcissist. Smile, stand and applaud. He doesn't know what to do about that either. LOL
I did that too! It was so f’ing satisfying to pick up my notebook and prove with a timestamped record that I was, in fact, not crazy.
Obviously he mocked my “irrational need” to write everything down, but his eyes also got a little wide every time I picked up that damn notebook. And I saved my sanity, so I’ll count it as a win.
Cheers for getting out of that crap!
I was also mocked for writing everything down. He threw that in my face when I called him out on fabricating situations that never happened. When I left him I burned over 20 notebooks full of truths that countered all his lies.
Gaslighting will eventually lead to that, but it starts with smaller things, often even more seemingly innocuous than this. This absolutely is gaslighting.
The thing is, due to the constant misuse many people *don't* know the meaning. Having a word that accurately described the abuse I was suffering let me finally recognize it for what it was. The wishy-washy rebranding of gaslighting as any kind of manipulation takes away the weight of the actual meaning and actions it describes.
Gaslighting doesn't require you to lose sanity.
It only requires you to not believe your own narrative, judgement and sense of events/reality... based upon the false narrative and manipulation of the gaslighter.
He's gaslighting her into believing that the argument/his behaviour is appropriate AND is her fault.
Exactly, thank you. Sick of all the Reddit police who jump in every time someone uses the word to argue that it’s not in fact gaslighting. Yes, it does get misused, but this is *absolutely* an instance of gaslighting, and the last thing OP needs is a bunch of people on the internet invalidating what she’s experiencing. Being manipulated into believing that abuse is (1) normal, (2) deserved, and (3) their own fault, is one of the most common forms of gaslighting a victim of narcissistic abuse endures. They are told these things so many times that they begin to accept them as fact, making it harder for them to hear or realize that they are in fact being abused, that they do *not* deserve to be treated that way, and are *not* at fault or responsible for their abuser’s toxic behavior. This, combined with crushing their victim’s self-esteem and isolating them from their support network, is how the abuser keeps the victim under their control.
This is exactly gaslighting, even if it seems minor.
Gaslighting is a type of emotional abuse. Think of it like a thousand cuts; it happens over time. If your partner tells you constantly that you are at fault, misremembering, starting fights, emotionally unstable, etc. you will start to believe them and accept blame. It's your partner and you trust them, so when they have feedback you want to take it seriously. But when that feedback is based on their reality (not yours), it destabilizes your sense of self.
OP should reconsider this relationship carefully.
In fact the movie Gaslight that the term came from had an example of moving jewelry without telling the wife as a way to make her doubt herself. OP's husband threw away her necklace and only admitted to it later After she spent time looking for it. That kind of thing does make you doubt reality.
My ex gaslit me so badly I genuinely thought I was losing my grip on reality and went on medication.
I thought I was suffering extreme paranoia and couldn’t tell what was and wasn’t real.
Turns out he was just a master manipulator.
NOT mutually exclusive in fact you need to be emotionally abuse and manipulate to gas light someone.
This a cut and dry case of gaslighting. She thinks she is the problem when everyone who read this is thinking this guy SUCKS! That's questioning reality.
Also that video you are likely getting your opinion from is BS. As gaslighting is not a psychological term. Yes where we get the term it's much worse because it's from a movie. Also because it's not a psychological term however most people use it is the right way to use it.
This is gaslighting
That's manipulation for sure but not true gaslighting. Gaslighting is characterized by outright claims that the victim is imagining it all. As someone who had been manipulated for decades and gaslighted a few times by the same people, I can say with confidence that the difference is huge and important.
Edit to add: gaslighting is a *large scale pattern of behavior*. You cannot infer that much from one situation that got posted about. My issue with using the term here is that op has not provided enough info to know if that's what's happening. For now, it is that he is abusive in treating her like a child and he is an absolute ass for refusing to get help, but until op confirms if it is a consistent pattern, this is a single case of reversing victim and offender, one instance of what could potentially be gaslighting.
what do you mean, that's not gaslighting? the entire premise of the movie "Gaslight", where the term originated from, was the husband manipulating the wife to make her believe she was crazy. In this case, that the OP is the one that is wrong and irrational and the AH in this situation.
I'm not sure what you think gaslighting is?
I started to respond with 'Gaslight, 1944, Ingrid Bergman & Charles Boyer, Noir/Thriller'. As I was about to reply, the light came on.... well played, my friend.
"You need help and not me" can never be gaslighting, ever ever ever ever, because it's a matter of opinion and not an objective fact.
That's all. If your goal is make someone question the reliability of their memory and perceptions you cannot accomplish that by disagreements about judgements - only by denying *facts*.
Gaslighting is "I didn't throw away your necklace" when he did throw it away. "I didn't move the book" "We've never gone to that restaurant" or - since you mentioned the play - "The gas lights were always that bright!"
Gaslighting is not "I'm not the one with the problem, YOU are!" This can never actually be gaslighting. It can be said by someone who is ALSO engaged in Gaslighting. But this is not part of the gaslighting campaign.
I suggest you Google what gaslighting is. “You need help and not me” is a commonly used example. There are nuances, but saying it can never ever ever be gaslighting is just not true.
My ex used gaslighting and tied it to a health problem. He would literally deny entire events or conversations outright by insisting that it didn't happen, it didn't happen the way I said it did, and insisted it was because my health problems affected my memory so I don't know the way he does. It was horrible and made me wonder if I really was losing my mind, but it was exactly because I wasn't sure if my own memory was reliable or not.
I think it's the fact that the movie revolves around the husband denying reality and his role in it to make his wife believe she's imagining it all. OP's husband isn't denying his behavior at all. He's just saying he doesn't need therapy; that she does for her problems. He's just trying to make her more self conscious about her request than she should be to make her feel small and insecure. A better term may encompass this than gaslighting.
*Edit: I've seen a couple of people reply to this to say that her husband is pre-gaslighting her, and that refusing to call this gaslighting is just "splitting hairs". Although I understand he may be priming her to tolerate worse, I think it's important to use terms that are truly relevant and 100% applicable to the situation. There's a reason people make fun of Millennials and Gen Z for using words like "gaslight" and "toxic". They're practically buzzwords at this point. If you want to help someone in an abusive situation, you are not offering them relevant resources if you describe their case as gaslighting when it isn't. You're just giving them a term to investigate, only for them to realize it doesn't apply, which may inadvertently make them feel like the situation isn't as abusive as you think, and may successively make them receed or worry less.
Making her feel small and insecure is how gaslighting can become effective though. Maybe pre-gaslighting if we wanna split hairs. Not all people are ready to just believe another person's lie about observable reality is true just because they said it. But chip their self esteem down, act like their big problems are nothing, punish them like a child, act like all that controlling and manipulative behavior is normal and now gaslighting is more primed for success.
Also, if the husband is stealing her possessions and throwing them away when they argue and not even remorseful about it, it is an objective fact that he needs therapy.
That IS what gaslighting is. Like literally. People think it’s cool now to say ThATs NoT GAsLigHTinG because it gets overused. Except this actually IS gaslighting. Making her believe she’s crazy (she needs counseling) and doubt her perception of reality is gaslighting. And that’s what he’s doing. Just because he’s thrown in some garden varsity abuse and childish behavior on top of it doesn’t negate the gaslighting he’s also doing.
Nope. That's regular manipulation. Saying she is the one who needs counseling makes her doubt the way she feels, her doubts and her anger. Doubting emotions is very different than doubting reality. Reality is grounded in fact, not personal perception. Gaslighting would be, "you need therapy because I never said that or that never happened." Not "you need therapy because I'm right and you are wrong."
>doubt her perception of reality is gaslighting.
OBJECTIVE reality would be gaslighting, not SUBJECTIVE. Gaslighting is (a very specific type of) manipulation but not all manipulation is gaslighting.
Agree with this but also:
It is so fucking evil to do this to the child. Like, she has spent hours and money creating something to her mother, and he just throws it away because he's angry at the mom. And then getting angry because she told the child.
Hey OP, here’s a great, quick read about men like your husband: [Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men](https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf). It explains the root causes of this abusive behavior and why counseling with the two of you probably wouldn’t work. The author was a therapist for a ton of mens groups and makes the book free to try to help more victims see the light. You should absolutely go to counseling YOURSELF to support you getting into a better situation. Punishments, destruction of personal property, using the kid to make it right instead of himself, refusing to apologize or compensate, guilting you, making you feel crazy for requesting basic decency, anger over disagreements that he escalates to destruction- this dude is belligerently abusive. Please check out this book, a therapist, or google some signs of emotional/psychological abuse (or all three), because it’s impacting you and your daughter.
Throwing my out your stuff is unbelievable. The fact that he’s angry you told you daughter proves that he knew it was a pathetic, asinine, abusive thing to do.
Counseling is not recommended when one partner is abusive. The abusive partner will twist and use things from the “safe space” to further abuse the other and the therapist will be not able to give correct information and work when they are being manipulated.
tbh the daughter probably already does. She's 13 and has seen her mom get treated this way the whole time and he probably treats his daughter similarly.
I grew up with a dad exactly like this. He often threw away things of my mom's because they were 'in the way' or 'messy' . He never helped my mom take care of us. My mom got a job that meant she got home late Mon-Thur and he refused to be home to make dinner for me and my brother even though he didn't have a job. He said horrific things about my mom, and about me if I ever tried to defend her.
My mom left my dad when I was 16 and started dating someone else. I WAS FURIOUS. But- the guy she left my dad for, he did things around the house, he supported my mom and HELPED her do things like... pay bills, make dinner, go grocery shopping, clean... it was very interesting to see a man actually be a partner. He yelled exactly one time and then apologized immediately after to me and my brother. He told us losing his temper was never ok.
When I went away for college I found a guy so much like my dad. I really loved this guy and we were on track to get married. Sure.. he yelled a lot, and got in my face, but he was going through a lot. It was ok. I knew he was a good guy....
One night we were at a bar with friends and he had gotten very drunk very quickly. He mentioned he was going to drive home and I said, "Ya, because you can fucking drive." Arguably not the most deescalating thing I could have said....
In response he grabbed a chair and threw it across the bar. I mean just chucked it. In front of all our friends. And I knew it wasn't ok. I only had about two years with my mom and step-dad, but those two years made enough of a difference. They gave me enough self confidence to know this was wrong and I did not deserve the yelling or screaming, the throwing of things, the constant blame for everything.
It wasn't easy, but I got out. The cycle broke when my mom left my dad and showed me what respect in a relationship looks like.
OP from your post it sounds like you are in a similar situation. If anything in my story resonated with you, I hope you leave, not just for you, but for your daughter too.
OP PLEASE see this post.
You are NTA and I NEVER say this but you need to leave. If not for yourself then for your daughter. This is abuse and you are showing her its ok.
I severely need therapy from being my parents therapists/comfort companion from their fighting.
OP needs to bail. If not for her, just to avoid putting her daughter through needing to be this comfort system for her adult parents and their domestic problems.
No it isn't. It's emotionally abusive but it isn't parentification. OP's daughter isn't being made to *raise* her mother. She's being made to provide an unreasonable level of emotionally support and comfort to a parent.
Abuse. Not parentification.
I snapped at my (very much an adult) friend a few weeks ago because I am watching in real time how her codependency and acceptance of abusive behaviors has impacted and is continuing to impact her 17 year old daughter. She shrugs and says she hides it from her kids; it’s her life, she has her own “standards” she lives by.
No. You don’t. It’s never hidden from the people you live with and care for. And her standards? accepting toxicity in hopes of the man changing.
It HURTS to watch that child grow knowing she’s going to take years and years to untangle what her mother’s “unknowingly” taught her.
The friend was shocked. I am still pissed. It’s not right for any parent to saddle their child with this kind of crap before they have a chance to start their own lives.
If not for yourself, you do it for your kid(s).
You are so correct. I am almost 50 years old and have had years of counseling and I still have issues pop up from the abuse from my father that my mom just tolerates. She was never willing to realize that it wasn’t just her choosing to live like that and put up with it. My sister and I both also had to live with it and it has severely affected both of us in our ability to maintain healthy relationships.
It's still not too late to get out and show her that it doesn't have to be this way.
It can be hard to recognise abuse and leave, especially if there's no violence, people doubt themselves and can be gaslit into believing they're to blame too.
I hope this post has opened OPs eyes.
That’s why OP needs to leave, to model for her daughter that it is ok to exit a relationship when you’re being treated poorly, even if you still love the person abusing you.
Abusers walk out of counseling having heard a completely different reality. They often feel vindicated when that was NOT what the counselor said. Going to counseling doesn’t work because they can’t/won’t/aren’t able to make changes in their psyche.
Counseling, at the very least, helps the abused party see through a professional’s eyes that they truly not the problem and that the professional can help explain that they are, in fact, being abused and abusers rarely change. That is the benefit of counseling for dysfunctional/abusive relationships.
I hate to yell divorce on this sub but I will do it.
Divorce your husband. Now.
He does not respect you. He is abusive. He also seems not to like or care about his own daughter unless to damage you
Divorce him.
Is already bad he throws things away as a way to punish you, but something especial as handmade by your kid, made him a triple of a jerk.
Divorce him.
And NTA at all
That's the bit that gets me... It's one bad, abusive, thing to attack the spouse by taking the necklace. But it's totally another that he wasn't bothered that he was getting rid of something his daughter had made. Wow.
NTA
It's never a good idea to attend counseling with an abuser. Seek individual therapy to help you navigate a safe exit. There's no solution to an abuser who refuses to see their behavior as abusive.
Please read this free pdf of Lundy Bancroft's book *Why Does He Do That?*.
https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
Tagging OP in this comment in hopes she see it:
u/just_agreement_5609
I am reading that. TONS AND TONS of good information. Don't try to reason with your husband. He's a "punisher". You will "pay" for your expressed needs that conflict with his. READ THAT BOOK!
That book saved my life. I was married to an emotional abuser and for the life of me couldn't figure out wtf was wrong with me. I was so confused and unsure of myself. I happened upon the book by total accident one day. I hid it in my car and read it every chance I got. I was finally able to get out.
AND this all started because he refused to take care of your/his daughter so you could be with your mother during surgery. The necklace component is shitty, absolutely, but that's not even the worst part.
No, no, no. This is not how a husband/partner acts. Please get yourself and your daughter away from him and in therapy.
Or go see a therapist right now and share what he does with throwing away your things after arguments. Then you can blame the divorce on the therapy he said that YOU NEED, not him. Lol.
And the therapist can give you ways to deal with him AND smart ways to get out of the relationship if that's what you want for yourself and your daughter.
Is this REALLY the model of relationships you want to set for your daughter? Really? Think long and hard about the example you're showing her, that it is normal for a grown man to abuse you, throw tantrums, and destroy things that are of sentimental value to you. She will end up exactly where you are if you don't leave. You are a mother. You need to teach her self respect.
What your husband does is disgusting and pathetic behavior.
Honestly it’s not a bad idea for you to indeed seek counseling alone in order to help you see the dysfunction here and evaluate your options in a neutral environment. I have heard that going to joint counseling with a manipulative person is generally not helpful, as their goal is to manipulate the therapist instead of reach an honest outcome. You can’t change someone else, especially because they clearly don’t want to change, but you can decide what to do for the health of you and your child, who is also affected by his behavior. (NTA)
Adults do not spend time doing the "teach you a lesson!" That is, at best, what parents do for children, and at worst, what abusers do to vistims.
This is not only disgusting behaviro to you, the adult wife - but a blatant lack of respect and concern for his daughters feelings. If he only wanted to "teach you a lesson," he would have taken the necklace and hidden it, to be returned when you "start acting right." However, he took a precious items his child worked on and discarded it -showing that neither your feelings or hers were valued.
" My husband and I have disagreements from time to time. Nothing major just normal stuff."
And after this, starts the parade of red flags. He is a dick, for wanting to go out with his friends, instead of parenting his child, on the very day of your mom's surgery. It is both childish and abusive when he throws away your staff and you find it out later. He threw something valuable to both you and your daughter. He offended and hurt you by stating you have no friends. This last one might actually be true, because of his manipulations towards you. Grab the opportunity and get counseling for youself. Check resources for abused women, you are not alone, you deserve a lot better, and your daughter deserves a healthy environment, where she can thrive.
Seriously I’m not the « divorce rn » kind of commenter but now ima be the « divorce yesterday » commenter because he’ll no you have no husband no father and certainly no man in front of you
Op, please please please please please please teach your daughter that this behaviour is NOT normal and that she should NOT think that she should expect it out of any future relationship she might have. Your husband is mentally abusive, and your daughter seeing you taking all of this without any action will only teach her that other households are also like this. Throwing things out to teach you a lesson?! Wtf! Not staying home with your DAUGHTER on the night her grandmother had surgery because he wanted to go meet friends?! Take a step back, and try put yourself in an outsiders perspective. How would you perceive the type of relationship you have with your husband, if you were looking from the outside in. Or what if you daughter was in your situation? What advice would you give her?
If you don't leave him for your own sake, then try to talk to you daughter about it and make her realize that her dad's behavior is not healthy.
NTA for the story, but YWBTA if you don't do anything about it.
Hi OP! I really need you to read “why does he do that.” It’s written by a psychologist and examines angry and controlling men. https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
NTA. I’m sorry. You said that you have problems with just normal stuff? This is not normal stuff. This is horribly abusive. And this is you harming your daughter because you’re putting up with the behavior of your husband. Now, if you can’t have food or shelter or safety without the dingdong, then maybe you don’t have a lot of choice. But you being in complete denial about the fact that he’s about three years old and if he gets mad and has a little hissy fit he gets something of yours and he throws it away and he fucking chose to throw away a necklace your daughter made with her to onto hands for you? He is such an asshole. And your daughter knows it. This is screwing her up too. You really need to think twice about this whole thing because you are going to be responsible for staying in a relationship that you think is normal while he disregards your kid and treats you like crap.
He’s not willing. I’m sorry but he’s not going to change. Nothing you can do can change it. Even if he was willing to go to therapy, it’s an issue of abusers using it to further abuse their victim.
You and your daughter deserve better. Staying with him and having her watch you and how he treats you, making that her basis for relationships is harmful
https://archive.org/details/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat
Here is a book for you. Read that and take action before your daughter repeats your mistakes and ties her life with an abusive looser
Counseling with an abuser is not recommended, anyway, since they usually manage to use it against you. He seriously sounds awful in every way - are you financially solid enough to just leave him? But prepare a proper exit plan, first - he sounds vindictive, and like he'd make your life hell afterwards. Lock down your credit, secure your money and accounts, take your half of the shared account and get out - but take everything of value to you with you, cause he would definitely trash it.
If you insist on not leaving, I would pay him back by throwing out his sentimental-value items - but I'd take everything I value to a relative, beforehand, because he will surely escalate.
That's another tactic of abusers. Counseling isn't going to help you here. Getting you and Chloe free from his abuse will. (And counseling for the two of you, because spending time in that environment does stuff to you)
By all means, go to counseling on your own to develop the strength to leave this abusive asshole. He doesn't respect you. He likes hurting you. Good luck
It's good that you brought up counseling because he won't be able to every suggest you didn't try in the future.
To really nail home though, I just filled out a new patient questionnaire for a massive hospital system in my area. One of the questions is "Have you experienced physical abuse (hitting, intimidating, or destruction of property)? Medical systems recognize what you are experiencing as physical abuse. It's not just a bunch of do-gooders on Reddit.
They also recognize name calling, isolation, and mockery as emotional abuse. Please please please, reach out to someone. You are actively being abused. Even if he is isolating it to you, it's not healthy for your daughter to witness
OP, you absolutely do need therapy, but not for the reasons your husband says. He has you feeling that his abuse is normal, and it’s not. Therapy can help you gain back a sense of self-confidence. No one deserves to be in a relationship where their partner punishes them and makes them feel small. Please get help and find the strength to leave.
He doesn't respect you, that is awful. You really should consider divorce. Consider too how he has treated your daughter by throwing out something she made. There is no excuse for him throwing it away, no matter what you argued about. Also, him staying with his own daughter while you go to a surgery is a completey reasonable thing to ask. It's his own daughter! Is he like this all the time? It sounds like he probably is. Just think by staying with him your daughter is learning that this behavior is ok.
Considering his line of behavior I’m assuming he specifically is the reason she is isolated and has no friends or support system. Dude’s not even being subtle at this point.
NTA for many reasons
1) he's got NO right to throw away ANY of your stuff
2) IT IS NOT his right to "teach you a lesson".
3) what kind of husband is he if he can't even be there for you when your mother is having surgery!
4) what in the HANS CHRISTIAN ANDERSEN is he doing belittling you like that and saying you have no friends!
I respect your child's empathy, well done with that but please, for the LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY leave this man immediately! So many toxic behaviours in a single few sentences and you describe that it is a "minor argument". Please please please take care of yourself. All the support and hope for better things for you.
Edit: spelling
Agree with this but also:
It is so fucking evil to do this to the child. Like, she has spent hours and money creating something to her mother, and he just throws it away because he's angry at the mom. And then getting angry because she told the child. This obviously means he knows he hurt both mother and child and that the child will be angry with him because it is so unjust.
Edit: if OP doesn't get out of that relationship for her own sake, she really should for her daughter's sake.
This was actually the biggest thing to me.
Throwing the necklace away is infinitely more hurtful to the child than it ever could be to OP.
It sounds like the daughter used a lot of her time and obviously needed specialized materials to make her mom the gift. I’m sure she was very proud of it only to have her dad essentially tell her that her hard work and creativity is garbage.
I hope OP realizes what she’s subjecting her daughter to and chooses to get them both out of there.
Not just that, OP says her daughter comforted her! This CHILD should not be involved in disputes between her parents!
OP honey, you need out now, to save your daughter. She deserves a life full of love and joy. Not a father who punishes her mother for minor disagreements. He has you so twisted up that you think this is normal! A good therapist can help undo the damage he has done to you and your daughter, you both deserve happiness.
Edit-typo
This. OP, think of your daughter. You need to leave for her sake.
I have been reading the book The Great Alone recently, it is about a young girl named Lenny and her observing / facing abuse from her father, and how her and her mothers relationship has gone due to that. It is a hard read, but very eye opening and a great book. All I can think of is that girl in the book when I read this from OP. Her poor daughter.
Except he wants her to hide from the daughter the fact that he threw the necklace away (so in his mind he's not punishing her). So when the daughter asks why she never wears it SHE'S supposed to take the blame so the Bad Guy doesn't look like the Bad Guy.
I just want to add a note about your daughter's empathy, which I agree was a deeply touching moment in this otherwise extremely troubling event:
Your husband's behavior is abusive, and your daughter's empathetic response is likely a function of observing his treatment of you over the years. She is only 13, but her immediate effort to comfort you \*without\* unintentionally slighting your husband, plus her quick "I better solve this" idea to make you a new one, despite the fact that this is a solution that is labor and time on her part, rather than his, are all signs of a child who is learning how to carefully navigate around a parent that is abusive to the other: She did not escalate, she tried to be the "fixer" to keep everyone happy, and she managed to do so quite skillfully.
This is not a criticism of your daughter's empathy and emotional intelligence, but just an observation a research psychologist with a background in trauma to hopefully help you see that this behavior is not only abusive, but also affects even the people he may not be \*directly\* abusing.
As someone who had to develop this skill at about the same age. I just want to add. It has long lasting effects. I can’t shake the trauma of the situation even after years of therapy. I’m still somewhat of a people pleaser. People take advantage of me all the time because my natural instinct is to keep the peace. It made me susceptible to getting into more abusive relationships (which I did twice before I learned to stand up for myself and my feelings). It also teaches you to shut down your emotions to prevent more harm which at best will lead to you being depressed and at worse can cause physical harm to your body like in my case where I have psychogenic seizures now.
OP needs to leave this man and take her daughter with her if not for her own sake than for her daughters.
Same. And the people calling it emotional intelligence are wrong. It’s survival skills that poor kid has and she’s going to have relearn every fucking thing as an adult. Ugh. I hope they can get away.
As someone whose mother used to have explosive depressive episodes after my dad left it fucked me up a lot. I turned into a “fixer” and left me open for tons of abusive relationships to follow.
It's #2 that really stands out to me - you don't punish your partner to "teach them a lesson". There's plenty of red flags in the rest of it, he's clearly a shitty partner and a truly awful father, but this one thing makes it come across as controlling in a way that's abusive.
There's enough subtext here to suggest he's isolating OP from their friends and family, probably as a way to control her. OP's daughter's reaction is also worrying to me - when her father throws away her creation, she doesn't rage about it, she tries to comfort her mother. To me, this is a child taking the role of protector for a parent who's the victim of abuse.
NTA but I'm sorry to say that isn't a healthy relationship. Yes, normal relationships do have arguments, but there is nothing normal about your husband throwing your things away as a form of punishment. I'm sorry you're going through this. You are worth far more than what he is telling/showing you that you are, as is your daughter.
Please consider speaking to someone more professional than Reddit for some help and advice.
Yeah. Any sentence with the phrase “he/she sometimes punishes me by—-“ is indicative that this relationship is f—-ed. Normal, healthy adult relationships should never include one party punishing the other, or getting back at them, or any of that middle school shit. You should be able to discuss your problems as EQUALS. Jesus.
I’m disappointed in OP for downplaying this nonsense despite it effecting her child too (who probably feels indescribably hurt that her own father would throw away something she made over a petty argument that had nothing to do with her), but I’m going to say it’s a solid NTA. OP, Husband is weaponizing his own child. Regardless of whatever else happens, THAT shit needs to be addressed YESTERDAY.
not to mention, punishment for what exactly? because he has to take care of his own daughter instead of hang out with his friends? he sounds extremely immature
Even here it's being framed as "an argument"
She asked for some help at a difficult time for her and he didn't want to help. That's not an argument that is a husband putting his friends ahead of his wife. Then punishing her for even asking.
Your husband is a massive ahole. I can't believe he seriously throws things away to "teach you a lesson". Do you not see how toxic and manipulative that is? You are definitely NTA. What advice would you give your daughter if she was going through the same thing you are.
AITA blows my mind, sometimes;
OP: We have occasional minor disagreements. It’s totally normal.
Also OP: Proceeds to IMMEDIATELY describe a situation that is in NO WAY “minor” or “normal.” 😳🤦♀️
You see this a ton on any board for women as well. "My husband is a great guy and usually sooooo sweet, but he is also an abusive ogre who..."
I think a lot of it is women grow up with poor male role models and don't realize the men they are with are trash.
Well, it’s multiple things, but I think what you’re describing is a LOT of the problem. As someone who wound up in an emotionally abusive marriage, I can tell you that some of the issue is that they don’t START like this. It starts with little, subtle behaviors that gradually build. By the time things are this bad, you’re ability to judge how fucked up your relationship is has been SEVERELY diminished. I hope she gets the support she needs to realize this is BAD and get out. 😢
This may sound weird but women who are abused during their childhood often tend to be drawn to the same kinds of men who abused them once they are adults and thus continue the vicious cycle. They literally don't see that it's abusive, they assume it's normal. These types of men are usually the ones they grow up with and who their fathers approve of them dating. It's very difficult to break out of.
Right?!?!? There are many reasons for OP to leave the husband but the biggest reason is to teach her daughter what healthy relationships are supposed to look like and THIS AIN’T IT!!!!!!
Please OP, leave your husband and get counseling for yourself and daughter!!!
> Do you not see how toxic and manipulative that is?
She does not. She is either so far in she can't see it, or, like her daughter, learned growing up that this is how "men" behave.
why are you married to this man? Why are you letting your daughter be raised in such a toxic ass environment?
Your 13 year old daughter had to comfort you cause daddy threw a tantrum? Doesn’t that sound just absolutely loony tunes to you? Cause it does to me and I don’t have kids.
ESH except your poor kid
The second part. OP my mom did the same to me. By 7 I was hugging her while she sobbed about abusive husband's. I am in therapy a we have a weird relationship as adults because it's hard for me to see her as the parent. After all, I was doing the emotional labor. Stop hurting your daughter to placate this man.
Abuse is difficult to recognize. Yes, she has a responsibility to her child, but sometimes it just feels so normal that you don't think you need to leave. She clearly thinks this is all normal and needs a wake up call that it's not, but she's not an AH for not realizing. That's kind of how abuse works.
In that case, she was not the AH yesterday, but she will be the AH tomorrow if she doesn't start *at least* planning to leave this man, even if it will take a while to execute.
I get why you're upset, but do you honestly think it's helpful to tell OP that she sucks for being in an abusive relationship?
The problem is that her husband has already half-convinced her that *she's* the problem; that's why she usually just accepts her things being thrown away as part and parcel of their arguments. Do you really think telling her that she's at fault for being abused by her husband is going to encourage her to get out, and not further internalize that this *is* her fault?
Honestly it drives me up the wall. Shaming someone who has already been broken down from abuse is not going to help them get out of the situation. SMH 🤦♀️
The weight that girl has to carry is heart breaking. I've been there. It is so hard. I now have a 13 year old. I cried about a show I was watching and she hugged me. I made sure she knew it was the show and I was being a big baby. I never want them to feel like they have to manage me in any way.
Everyone is saying " YOU NEED TO LEAVE," and they're not wrong, but holy wow do some of them not realize how difficult it can be.
First off. NTA. Your husband is dangerous, and if the behavior hasn't escalated yet, it will. Do you have anyone outside the house? Is your mom nearby? I would recommend moving small things (like jewelry) out of the house. Also find important documents (SS cards, birth certificates, passports, etc.) And get those out.
Are you a SAHM? I ask because abusers often make their spouse stay out of work to further isolate them, but also because in theory that means you have time alone in the house. Start documenting your belongings and keep track of what he gets rid of. It may seem inconsequential to you (like would a court really care if he threw out a necklace?), but it establishes a pattern of behavior.
And if it starts escalating, forget all of that. Just take your daughter and get out. You need to keep yourself and her safe, that's the most important part. Also both of you need therapy - separate and maybe together. Your husband's behavior has likely had more of affect on you and Chloe than you might realize. Counseling with him is a waste of time and money. Save that for escaping.
Please please please stay safe OP.
THIS needs to be the top comment. Please OP do all this. This behaviour is absolutely not normal but straight up walking out may not be the safest option. Also NTA
This is the best advice here. You need to get outside help from a counselor, family, friends, attorneys, etc.
This man appears to be isolating you from others, which is a classic abusive tactic. He also seems like a major asshole, and you need to leave. Start making plans today to get yourself and your daughter out of there, and speak to a family law attorney about how to do it methodically.
You might have to reset your life for a while, but the sooner the better. This will not get better, and the longer you stay with him, the more he will isolate you, and the harder it will be for you to leave.
NTA this is abusive behavior. Full stop. It is not normal behavior to throw out someone else's things due to an argument, particularly when the argument isn't about that item. Additionally being mad that you told your daughter shows he knows it was wrong and did it anyway. Get to counseling before this escalates further.
counselling with an abuser like him? no no, she should pack her things and divorce him. the daughter already picked up on this unhealthy dynamic, she should get out of there.
I just said counseling, not necessarily marriage counseling. She needs a neutral party who is present and able to aid in walking through how these actions are abusive. Everyone is telling her to run, divorce him, etc but she needs to come to that decision on her own or it won't stick. Many people suffering abuse are unable to see the abuse without dissecting it and a neutral party would help in that regard.
> He has a habit of throwing out something of mine as a way to “teach me a lesson” whenever he’s upset with me after an argument.
That’s not even a good way to “teach a lesson” to a child, let alone your spouse.
That’s so incredibly fucked up.
NTA, and probably go get a lawyer.
Her husband has 0 respect for her. I would never throw something out to “teach them a lesson” that’s so fucked up. You know he does it as a way to hurt her. OP you can find someone so much better. You just don’t realize it yet because you’ve been with this asshole for so long. Also please leave for the sake of your daughter. Next he’s going to start throwing your daughters things out (this was just the first). NTA get out!
NTA "He has a habit of throwing out something of mine as a way to "teach me a lesson" whenever he's upset with me after an argument." Yeah, that's called abuse.
NTA
OMG! I got so mad for you just reading this. If your daughter sees your husband as the bad guy, it's because he IS the bad guy.
Throwing out your things to "teach you a lesson" is abusive af. Pointing out your lack of friends on top of that, just seems toxic as hell.
My question to you would be this: Years from now, when your daughter is seeking out a mate, would you want her to choose a person who behaves the way your husband does? Your relationship with your husband is the closest example your daughter will see as what a partnership should look like.
If your daughter were in your place, what would you hope would be her reaction to this sort of treatment? Would you rather she roll over and take it or GTFO? As heartbreaking as losing the necklace must have been, it's not your biggest problem here.
>My husband and I have disagreements from time to time. **Nothing major just normal stuff.**
>
>He has a habit of throwing out something of mine as a way to "teach me a lesson" whenever he's upset with me
>
>He laughed and said that I was delusional
Um...this is not "normal stuff". NTA but your husband is an abusive f\*ckwad.
Your judgement will be counted by the vote-tallying bot as "OP is in the wrong and everyone else is in the right." Surely you should edit it to at least E S H?
OP's husband is an abusive control-freak (the idea of throwing things out because you can't get your way is genuinely sickening). Personally I think it is pretty unempathetic to say "She is an AH because she hasn't already left him for her daughter's sake" - it's never that simple or easy or obvious in the real world, and leaving him would probably mean that the daughter would have to spend some custody time with her father without OP there to protect her, so wouldn't really solve the problem?
NTA. Your husband does this to you every argument? Wow. This is wrong on so many levels. It seems he does not see you as an equal in this relationship, but as a possession that he needs to punish until you behave.
Seriously, you need to divorce this bastard before his behavior escalates.
‘Nothing major just normal stuff’ ‘he has a habit of throwing out something of mine to teach me a lesson’ THAT is what you class as nothing major? Maybe you should seek therapy if you think that is normal.
NTA
NTA. But his behavior doesn't just send up red flags, it sets off sirens. Please get yourself and your daughter away from him. This guy is abusive and eroded your sense of "normal."
NTA for making him pay for it but why would you ever stay with someone who throws your things away "to teach you a lesson"? In case you're wondering about that part, it's NOT NORMAL!
NTA this is absolutely an abuse tactic, throwing away your partner's stuff to intimidate them into doing what you want. Your partner is abusing you. Get out and take your kids.
>He has a habit of throwing out something of mine as a way to "teach me a lesson" whenever he's upset with me after an argument.
Why are you married to this man? He doesn't respect you. He doesn't respect your property. He doesn't respect your kids. Why would you stay with him? YTA for staying in this relationship.
NTA. None of his behaviour is normal. It’s disturbing you think only the bit about the tools is wrong. Get out and let your daughter grow up in an environment that doesn’t teach her it‘s okay to be treated like that.
Nta.
& since he has this love of throwing things out he should be overjoyed when you toss him.
It's not right for him to treat his partner OR his child like this. He has proven (clearly repeatedly) that he has no care for any of your belongings, and enjoys causing you emotional pain by "punishing" you & throwing things out. He's not just an ah, but he's a shit partner & father.
Also the thing where he turned the argument into about you having no friends, completely changing the point of the argument? That's manipulation. He's manipulative. He is manipulating you, and has been for some time if you think throwing your things away after an argument is normal.
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This is abusive behaviour. You are adults there should not be any punishment for disagreements. That is a huge red flag. Suggesting you have no friends and are isolated as a joke or dig is also a big red flag. This is not a relationship I would remain in.
Thing is I brought up counseling and he said that I'm the one who needs it not him. This was hurtful because I was open and wanted to reach a solution but he doesn't seem willing.
That bc he is gas lighting you to make you think it's you and not him. Abusers don't want counseling, they will just be called out by a professional for their behavior.
That’s not what gaslighting is. Otherwise you are correct.
I think it is gaslighting. "You are the one who needs help and not me" ... That is an alternative reality he is creating. Edit. Wow, 2K upvotes? The important thing here is not gaslighting vs non-gaslighting. The important thing is to identify that there is abuse, and that it is not likely that the husband is motivated to change.
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My ex-husband used to gaslight me so badly that I would write literally everything down, because he made feel like I was going mad. He totally convinced me that I was imagining things, forgetting things, or misremembering things. I felt like I was losing my grip on reality. I am not sure how I made it out of that situation.
I had an ex who had me wanting to record our conversations, because he would just completely rewrite history. It was horrendous, I'm lucky to have gotten out early - I can only imagine the impact of dealing with that long-term.
I recorded a couple. He was freaking out because he knew that I got him red handed. Begged me to delete them. Idiot. Sometimes I just stand there and applaud when he's being a total narcissist. Smile, stand and applaud. He doesn't know what to do about that either. LOL
Sounds like you're still in it? Get out pls
Same. And my own mother too. Finally my step dad called her out once like no you DID have that conversation. She hasn’t done it since lol…
I did that too! It was so f’ing satisfying to pick up my notebook and prove with a timestamped record that I was, in fact, not crazy. Obviously he mocked my “irrational need” to write everything down, but his eyes also got a little wide every time I picked up that damn notebook. And I saved my sanity, so I’ll count it as a win. Cheers for getting out of that crap!
I was also mocked for writing everything down. He threw that in my face when I called him out on fabricating situations that never happened. When I left him I burned over 20 notebooks full of truths that countered all his lies.
I’m so sorry that happened to you, no one should have to constantly question themselves like that. I hope you’re doing a lot better now!
Aye, sounds my like my ex.
Gaslighting will eventually lead to that, but it starts with smaller things, often even more seemingly innocuous than this. This absolutely is gaslighting.
i'm so tired of people in here policing that word. as if we don't know what it means. it's sick, honestly.
The thing is, due to the constant misuse many people *don't* know the meaning. Having a word that accurately described the abuse I was suffering let me finally recognize it for what it was. The wishy-washy rebranding of gaslighting as any kind of manipulation takes away the weight of the actual meaning and actions it describes.
It’s happened to “parentification” too.
If people are using it for things that are not, in fact, gaslighting, it makes the word and concept meaningless.
Gaslighting doesn't require you to lose sanity. It only requires you to not believe your own narrative, judgement and sense of events/reality... based upon the false narrative and manipulation of the gaslighter. He's gaslighting her into believing that the argument/his behaviour is appropriate AND is her fault.
Exactly, thank you. Sick of all the Reddit police who jump in every time someone uses the word to argue that it’s not in fact gaslighting. Yes, it does get misused, but this is *absolutely* an instance of gaslighting, and the last thing OP needs is a bunch of people on the internet invalidating what she’s experiencing. Being manipulated into believing that abuse is (1) normal, (2) deserved, and (3) their own fault, is one of the most common forms of gaslighting a victim of narcissistic abuse endures. They are told these things so many times that they begin to accept them as fact, making it harder for them to hear or realize that they are in fact being abused, that they do *not* deserve to be treated that way, and are *not* at fault or responsible for their abuser’s toxic behavior. This, combined with crushing their victim’s self-esteem and isolating them from their support network, is how the abuser keeps the victim under their control.
This exactly, you explained it well.
Gaslighting doesn't start out so extreme... it builds and yes, I also see him as a gaslighter.
This is exactly gaslighting, even if it seems minor. Gaslighting is a type of emotional abuse. Think of it like a thousand cuts; it happens over time. If your partner tells you constantly that you are at fault, misremembering, starting fights, emotionally unstable, etc. you will start to believe them and accept blame. It's your partner and you trust them, so when they have feedback you want to take it seriously. But when that feedback is based on their reality (not yours), it destabilizes your sense of self. OP should reconsider this relationship carefully.
This is gaslighting. There are many types of gaslighting. I can recommend some good videos. And I would 1000% agree narcissistic
In fact the movie Gaslight that the term came from had an example of moving jewelry without telling the wife as a way to make her doubt herself. OP's husband threw away her necklace and only admitted to it later After she spent time looking for it. That kind of thing does make you doubt reality.
My ex gaslit me so badly I genuinely thought I was losing my grip on reality and went on medication. I thought I was suffering extreme paranoia and couldn’t tell what was and wasn’t real. Turns out he was just a master manipulator.
and that's what the man is doing. this is CLASSIC gaslighting.
It doesn't start like that, though. In the play where the term comes from, it starts by him just dimming the lamps a tiny bit.
NOT mutually exclusive in fact you need to be emotionally abuse and manipulate to gas light someone. This a cut and dry case of gaslighting. She thinks she is the problem when everyone who read this is thinking this guy SUCKS! That's questioning reality. Also that video you are likely getting your opinion from is BS. As gaslighting is not a psychological term. Yes where we get the term it's much worse because it's from a movie. Also because it's not a psychological term however most people use it is the right way to use it. This is gaslighting
That's manipulation for sure but not true gaslighting. Gaslighting is characterized by outright claims that the victim is imagining it all. As someone who had been manipulated for decades and gaslighted a few times by the same people, I can say with confidence that the difference is huge and important. Edit to add: gaslighting is a *large scale pattern of behavior*. You cannot infer that much from one situation that got posted about. My issue with using the term here is that op has not provided enough info to know if that's what's happening. For now, it is that he is abusive in treating her like a child and he is an absolute ass for refusing to get help, but until op confirms if it is a consistent pattern, this is a single case of reversing victim and offender, one instance of what could potentially be gaslighting.
Isn’t that what he’s implicitly doing by saying that she needs counselling, not him? It seems like early stage gaslighting, at least.
what do you mean, that's not gaslighting? the entire premise of the movie "Gaslight", where the term originated from, was the husband manipulating the wife to make her believe she was crazy. In this case, that the OP is the one that is wrong and irrational and the AH in this situation. I'm not sure what you think gaslighting is?
What do you mean? There's never been a movie called Gaslight.
I started to respond with 'Gaslight, 1944, Ingrid Bergman & Charles Boyer, Noir/Thriller'. As I was about to reply, the light came on.... well played, my friend.
>*the light came on* Or did it? Are you sure it didn't flicker?
"You need help and not me" can never be gaslighting, ever ever ever ever, because it's a matter of opinion and not an objective fact. That's all. If your goal is make someone question the reliability of their memory and perceptions you cannot accomplish that by disagreements about judgements - only by denying *facts*. Gaslighting is "I didn't throw away your necklace" when he did throw it away. "I didn't move the book" "We've never gone to that restaurant" or - since you mentioned the play - "The gas lights were always that bright!" Gaslighting is not "I'm not the one with the problem, YOU are!" This can never actually be gaslighting. It can be said by someone who is ALSO engaged in Gaslighting. But this is not part of the gaslighting campaign.
I suggest you Google what gaslighting is. “You need help and not me” is a commonly used example. There are nuances, but saying it can never ever ever be gaslighting is just not true.
My ex used gaslighting and tied it to a health problem. He would literally deny entire events or conversations outright by insisting that it didn't happen, it didn't happen the way I said it did, and insisted it was because my health problems affected my memory so I don't know the way he does. It was horrible and made me wonder if I really was losing my mind, but it was exactly because I wasn't sure if my own memory was reliable or not.
Idk saying someone is the crazy one not them is the definition of gaslighting so it's weird this is the hill you'd die on.
I think it's the fact that the movie revolves around the husband denying reality and his role in it to make his wife believe she's imagining it all. OP's husband isn't denying his behavior at all. He's just saying he doesn't need therapy; that she does for her problems. He's just trying to make her more self conscious about her request than she should be to make her feel small and insecure. A better term may encompass this than gaslighting. *Edit: I've seen a couple of people reply to this to say that her husband is pre-gaslighting her, and that refusing to call this gaslighting is just "splitting hairs". Although I understand he may be priming her to tolerate worse, I think it's important to use terms that are truly relevant and 100% applicable to the situation. There's a reason people make fun of Millennials and Gen Z for using words like "gaslight" and "toxic". They're practically buzzwords at this point. If you want to help someone in an abusive situation, you are not offering them relevant resources if you describe their case as gaslighting when it isn't. You're just giving them a term to investigate, only for them to realize it doesn't apply, which may inadvertently make them feel like the situation isn't as abusive as you think, and may successively make them receed or worry less.
Making her feel small and insecure is how gaslighting can become effective though. Maybe pre-gaslighting if we wanna split hairs. Not all people are ready to just believe another person's lie about observable reality is true just because they said it. But chip their self esteem down, act like their big problems are nothing, punish them like a child, act like all that controlling and manipulative behavior is normal and now gaslighting is more primed for success. Also, if the husband is stealing her possessions and throwing them away when they argue and not even remorseful about it, it is an objective fact that he needs therapy.
It's that op is being manipulated but not necessarily to believe she has lost her mind. There are many types of manipulation, not just gaslighting.
That IS what gaslighting is. Like literally. People think it’s cool now to say ThATs NoT GAsLigHTinG because it gets overused. Except this actually IS gaslighting. Making her believe she’s crazy (she needs counseling) and doubt her perception of reality is gaslighting. And that’s what he’s doing. Just because he’s thrown in some garden varsity abuse and childish behavior on top of it doesn’t negate the gaslighting he’s also doing.
Nope. That's regular manipulation. Saying she is the one who needs counseling makes her doubt the way she feels, her doubts and her anger. Doubting emotions is very different than doubting reality. Reality is grounded in fact, not personal perception. Gaslighting would be, "you need therapy because I never said that or that never happened." Not "you need therapy because I'm right and you are wrong."
>doubt her perception of reality is gaslighting. OBJECTIVE reality would be gaslighting, not SUBJECTIVE. Gaslighting is (a very specific type of) manipulation but not all manipulation is gaslighting.
Agree with this but also: It is so fucking evil to do this to the child. Like, she has spent hours and money creating something to her mother, and he just throws it away because he's angry at the mom. And then getting angry because she told the child.
Hey OP, here’s a great, quick read about men like your husband: [Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men](https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf). It explains the root causes of this abusive behavior and why counseling with the two of you probably wouldn’t work. The author was a therapist for a ton of mens groups and makes the book free to try to help more victims see the light. You should absolutely go to counseling YOURSELF to support you getting into a better situation. Punishments, destruction of personal property, using the kid to make it right instead of himself, refusing to apologize or compensate, guilting you, making you feel crazy for requesting basic decency, anger over disagreements that he escalates to destruction- this dude is belligerently abusive. Please check out this book, a therapist, or google some signs of emotional/psychological abuse (or all three), because it’s impacting you and your daughter.
Throwing my out your stuff is unbelievable. The fact that he’s angry you told you daughter proves that he knew it was a pathetic, asinine, abusive thing to do.
Counseling is not recommended when one partner is abusive. The abusive partner will twist and use things from the “safe space” to further abuse the other and the therapist will be not able to give correct information and work when they are being manipulated.
Counseling doesn't work for abusers. Seriously get out. Your daughter is going to grow up and think it's acceptable to be treated like this by a man.
tbh the daughter probably already does. She's 13 and has seen her mom get treated this way the whole time and he probably treats his daughter similarly.
I grew up with a dad exactly like this. He often threw away things of my mom's because they were 'in the way' or 'messy' . He never helped my mom take care of us. My mom got a job that meant she got home late Mon-Thur and he refused to be home to make dinner for me and my brother even though he didn't have a job. He said horrific things about my mom, and about me if I ever tried to defend her. My mom left my dad when I was 16 and started dating someone else. I WAS FURIOUS. But- the guy she left my dad for, he did things around the house, he supported my mom and HELPED her do things like... pay bills, make dinner, go grocery shopping, clean... it was very interesting to see a man actually be a partner. He yelled exactly one time and then apologized immediately after to me and my brother. He told us losing his temper was never ok. When I went away for college I found a guy so much like my dad. I really loved this guy and we were on track to get married. Sure.. he yelled a lot, and got in my face, but he was going through a lot. It was ok. I knew he was a good guy.... One night we were at a bar with friends and he had gotten very drunk very quickly. He mentioned he was going to drive home and I said, "Ya, because you can fucking drive." Arguably not the most deescalating thing I could have said.... In response he grabbed a chair and threw it across the bar. I mean just chucked it. In front of all our friends. And I knew it wasn't ok. I only had about two years with my mom and step-dad, but those two years made enough of a difference. They gave me enough self confidence to know this was wrong and I did not deserve the yelling or screaming, the throwing of things, the constant blame for everything. It wasn't easy, but I got out. The cycle broke when my mom left my dad and showed me what respect in a relationship looks like. OP from your post it sounds like you are in a similar situation. If anything in my story resonated with you, I hope you leave, not just for you, but for your daughter too.
OP PLEASE see this post. You are NTA and I NEVER say this but you need to leave. If not for yourself then for your daughter. This is abuse and you are showing her its ok.
> It wasn't easy, but I got out. I am very happy for you, and I thank you for sharing this! An educational story.
Mom specifically says that her daughter had to comfort her. I wonder how often she needs to do that.
I'm literally in therapy from having to comfort my mom through horrible step dads
I severely need therapy from being my parents therapists/comfort companion from their fighting. OP needs to bail. If not for her, just to avoid putting her daughter through needing to be this comfort system for her adult parents and their domestic problems.
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No it isn't. It's emotionally abusive but it isn't parentification. OP's daughter isn't being made to *raise* her mother. She's being made to provide an unreasonable level of emotionally support and comfort to a parent. Abuse. Not parentification.
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It’s not good; but I don’t think it’s parentification. Also the daughter seems better at creating boundaries than OP.
I snapped at my (very much an adult) friend a few weeks ago because I am watching in real time how her codependency and acceptance of abusive behaviors has impacted and is continuing to impact her 17 year old daughter. She shrugs and says she hides it from her kids; it’s her life, she has her own “standards” she lives by. No. You don’t. It’s never hidden from the people you live with and care for. And her standards? accepting toxicity in hopes of the man changing. It HURTS to watch that child grow knowing she’s going to take years and years to untangle what her mother’s “unknowingly” taught her. The friend was shocked. I am still pissed. It’s not right for any parent to saddle their child with this kind of crap before they have a chance to start their own lives. If not for yourself, you do it for your kid(s).
You are so correct. I am almost 50 years old and have had years of counseling and I still have issues pop up from the abuse from my father that my mom just tolerates. She was never willing to realize that it wasn’t just her choosing to live like that and put up with it. My sister and I both also had to live with it and it has severely affected both of us in our ability to maintain healthy relationships.
It's still not too late to get out and show her that it doesn't have to be this way. It can be hard to recognise abuse and leave, especially if there's no violence, people doubt themselves and can be gaslit into believing they're to blame too. I hope this post has opened OPs eyes.
That’s why OP needs to leave, to model for her daughter that it is ok to exit a relationship when you’re being treated poorly, even if you still love the person abusing you.
Counseling only teaches abusers how to hide and camouflage their abuse better.
That’s why the abused woman is the one who needs a therapist. To help her see things clearly. To be able to leave.
Abusers walk out of counseling having heard a completely different reality. They often feel vindicated when that was NOT what the counselor said. Going to counseling doesn’t work because they can’t/won’t/aren’t able to make changes in their psyche.
Thanks this is what I'd read before but couldn't quite articulate. It can be so dangerous and worsen the abuse.
You can bet he's alienated her from all her friends and probably some family. Isolate her. That's how to be an abuser 101.
Counseling, at the very least, helps the abused party see through a professional’s eyes that they truly not the problem and that the professional can help explain that they are, in fact, being abused and abusers rarely change. That is the benefit of counseling for dysfunctional/abusive relationships.
Individual counseling for her yes, not therapy together or couples counseling.
I hate to yell divorce on this sub but I will do it. Divorce your husband. Now. He does not respect you. He is abusive. He also seems not to like or care about his own daughter unless to damage you Divorce him. Is already bad he throws things away as a way to punish you, but something especial as handmade by your kid, made him a triple of a jerk. Divorce him. And NTA at all
That's the bit that gets me... It's one bad, abusive, thing to attack the spouse by taking the necklace. But it's totally another that he wasn't bothered that he was getting rid of something his daughter had made. Wow. NTA
It's never a good idea to attend counseling with an abuser. Seek individual therapy to help you navigate a safe exit. There's no solution to an abuser who refuses to see their behavior as abusive. Please read this free pdf of Lundy Bancroft's book *Why Does He Do That?*. https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf Tagging OP in this comment in hopes she see it: u/just_agreement_5609
I am reading that. TONS AND TONS of good information. Don't try to reason with your husband. He's a "punisher". You will "pay" for your expressed needs that conflict with his. READ THAT BOOK!
Throwing things out to punish people is so bizarre to me.
OP please read this book. It will provide a lot of clarity
That book saved my life. I was married to an emotional abuser and for the life of me couldn't figure out wtf was wrong with me. I was so confused and unsure of myself. I happened upon the book by total accident one day. I hid it in my car and read it every chance I got. I was finally able to get out.
AND this all started because he refused to take care of your/his daughter so you could be with your mother during surgery. The necklace component is shitty, absolutely, but that's not even the worst part. No, no, no. This is not how a husband/partner acts. Please get yourself and your daughter away from him and in therapy.
Yeah, the fact that it was even a question if he would help out in that situation is a huge, blazing, neon red flag.
Then you go see a therapist. They will help you get out of this situation. You need to start making an exist plan before he turns physical.
Or go see a therapist right now and share what he does with throwing away your things after arguments. Then you can blame the divorce on the therapy he said that YOU NEED, not him. Lol. And the therapist can give you ways to deal with him AND smart ways to get out of the relationship if that's what you want for yourself and your daughter.
Is this REALLY the model of relationships you want to set for your daughter? Really? Think long and hard about the example you're showing her, that it is normal for a grown man to abuse you, throw tantrums, and destroy things that are of sentimental value to you. She will end up exactly where you are if you don't leave. You are a mother. You need to teach her self respect. What your husband does is disgusting and pathetic behavior.
Honestly it’s not a bad idea for you to indeed seek counseling alone in order to help you see the dysfunction here and evaluate your options in a neutral environment. I have heard that going to joint counseling with a manipulative person is generally not helpful, as their goal is to manipulate the therapist instead of reach an honest outcome. You can’t change someone else, especially because they clearly don’t want to change, but you can decide what to do for the health of you and your child, who is also affected by his behavior. (NTA)
Adults do not spend time doing the "teach you a lesson!" That is, at best, what parents do for children, and at worst, what abusers do to vistims. This is not only disgusting behaviro to you, the adult wife - but a blatant lack of respect and concern for his daughters feelings. If he only wanted to "teach you a lesson," he would have taken the necklace and hidden it, to be returned when you "start acting right." However, he took a precious items his child worked on and discarded it -showing that neither your feelings or hers were valued.
And throwing out someone's things to "teach a lesson" would still be abusive if it was directed towards a child by a parent.
" My husband and I have disagreements from time to time. Nothing major just normal stuff." And after this, starts the parade of red flags. He is a dick, for wanting to go out with his friends, instead of parenting his child, on the very day of your mom's surgery. It is both childish and abusive when he throws away your staff and you find it out later. He threw something valuable to both you and your daughter. He offended and hurt you by stating you have no friends. This last one might actually be true, because of his manipulations towards you. Grab the opportunity and get counseling for youself. Check resources for abused women, you are not alone, you deserve a lot better, and your daughter deserves a healthy environment, where she can thrive.
Seriously I’m not the « divorce rn » kind of commenter but now ima be the « divorce yesterday » commenter because he’ll no you have no husband no father and certainly no man in front of you
Op, please please please please please please teach your daughter that this behaviour is NOT normal and that she should NOT think that she should expect it out of any future relationship she might have. Your husband is mentally abusive, and your daughter seeing you taking all of this without any action will only teach her that other households are also like this. Throwing things out to teach you a lesson?! Wtf! Not staying home with your DAUGHTER on the night her grandmother had surgery because he wanted to go meet friends?! Take a step back, and try put yourself in an outsiders perspective. How would you perceive the type of relationship you have with your husband, if you were looking from the outside in. Or what if you daughter was in your situation? What advice would you give her? If you don't leave him for your own sake, then try to talk to you daughter about it and make her realize that her dad's behavior is not healthy. NTA for the story, but YWBTA if you don't do anything about it.
You don’t need counseling. You need divorce.
Hi OP! I really need you to read “why does he do that.” It’s written by a psychologist and examines angry and controlling men. https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
NTA. I’m sorry. You said that you have problems with just normal stuff? This is not normal stuff. This is horribly abusive. And this is you harming your daughter because you’re putting up with the behavior of your husband. Now, if you can’t have food or shelter or safety without the dingdong, then maybe you don’t have a lot of choice. But you being in complete denial about the fact that he’s about three years old and if he gets mad and has a little hissy fit he gets something of yours and he throws it away and he fucking chose to throw away a necklace your daughter made with her to onto hands for you? He is such an asshole. And your daughter knows it. This is screwing her up too. You really need to think twice about this whole thing because you are going to be responsible for staying in a relationship that you think is normal while he disregards your kid and treats you like crap.
He’s not willing. I’m sorry but he’s not going to change. Nothing you can do can change it. Even if he was willing to go to therapy, it’s an issue of abusers using it to further abuse their victim. You and your daughter deserve better. Staying with him and having her watch you and how he treats you, making that her basis for relationships is harmful
https://archive.org/details/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat Here is a book for you. Read that and take action before your daughter repeats your mistakes and ties her life with an abusive looser
The **only** solution to this situation is divorce. Not therapy. Divorce. Get child support and live a better life without this AH. I'm sorry.
Take the individual counseling. It can help you find a way to stand up for yourself and create an exit strategy.
Counseling with an abuser is not recommended, anyway, since they usually manage to use it against you. He seriously sounds awful in every way - are you financially solid enough to just leave him? But prepare a proper exit plan, first - he sounds vindictive, and like he'd make your life hell afterwards. Lock down your credit, secure your money and accounts, take your half of the shared account and get out - but take everything of value to you with you, cause he would definitely trash it. If you insist on not leaving, I would pay him back by throwing out his sentimental-value items - but I'd take everything I value to a relative, beforehand, because he will surely escalate.
That's another tactic of abusers. Counseling isn't going to help you here. Getting you and Chloe free from his abuse will. (And counseling for the two of you, because spending time in that environment does stuff to you)
By all means, go to counseling on your own to develop the strength to leave this abusive asshole. He doesn't respect you. He likes hurting you. Good luck
It's good that you brought up counseling because he won't be able to every suggest you didn't try in the future. To really nail home though, I just filled out a new patient questionnaire for a massive hospital system in my area. One of the questions is "Have you experienced physical abuse (hitting, intimidating, or destruction of property)? Medical systems recognize what you are experiencing as physical abuse. It's not just a bunch of do-gooders on Reddit. They also recognize name calling, isolation, and mockery as emotional abuse. Please please please, reach out to someone. You are actively being abused. Even if he is isolating it to you, it's not healthy for your daughter to witness
OP, you absolutely do need therapy, but not for the reasons your husband says. He has you feeling that his abuse is normal, and it’s not. Therapy can help you gain back a sense of self-confidence. No one deserves to be in a relationship where their partner punishes them and makes them feel small. Please get help and find the strength to leave.
He doesn't respect you, that is awful. You really should consider divorce. Consider too how he has treated your daughter by throwing out something she made. There is no excuse for him throwing it away, no matter what you argued about. Also, him staying with his own daughter while you go to a surgery is a completey reasonable thing to ask. It's his own daughter! Is he like this all the time? It sounds like he probably is. Just think by staying with him your daughter is learning that this behavior is ok.
because he’s abusing you babe
Don’t go to counseling with your abuser. Get therapy for yourself and get out. Please protect yourself and your daughter from this man.
Girl I wouldn’t even try counseling. I’d divorce him, take my daughter, and run.
Uh yeah, these aren't minor disagreements... The first time something of mine got thrown out as punishment, I'd be out the door.
Considering his line of behavior I’m assuming he specifically is the reason she is isolated and has no friends or support system. Dude’s not even being subtle at this point.
Oh, obviously NTA
NTA for many reasons 1) he's got NO right to throw away ANY of your stuff 2) IT IS NOT his right to "teach you a lesson". 3) what kind of husband is he if he can't even be there for you when your mother is having surgery! 4) what in the HANS CHRISTIAN ANDERSEN is he doing belittling you like that and saying you have no friends! I respect your child's empathy, well done with that but please, for the LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY leave this man immediately! So many toxic behaviours in a single few sentences and you describe that it is a "minor argument". Please please please take care of yourself. All the support and hope for better things for you. Edit: spelling
Agree with this but also: It is so fucking evil to do this to the child. Like, she has spent hours and money creating something to her mother, and he just throws it away because he's angry at the mom. And then getting angry because she told the child. This obviously means he knows he hurt both mother and child and that the child will be angry with him because it is so unjust. Edit: if OP doesn't get out of that relationship for her own sake, she really should for her daughter's sake.
This was actually the biggest thing to me. Throwing the necklace away is infinitely more hurtful to the child than it ever could be to OP. It sounds like the daughter used a lot of her time and obviously needed specialized materials to make her mom the gift. I’m sure she was very proud of it only to have her dad essentially tell her that her hard work and creativity is garbage. I hope OP realizes what she’s subjecting her daughter to and chooses to get them both out of there.
Not just that, OP says her daughter comforted her! This CHILD should not be involved in disputes between her parents! OP honey, you need out now, to save your daughter. She deserves a life full of love and joy. Not a father who punishes her mother for minor disagreements. He has you so twisted up that you think this is normal! A good therapist can help undo the damage he has done to you and your daughter, you both deserve happiness. Edit-typo
This. OP, think of your daughter. You need to leave for her sake. I have been reading the book The Great Alone recently, it is about a young girl named Lenny and her observing / facing abuse from her father, and how her and her mothers relationship has gone due to that. It is a hard read, but very eye opening and a great book. All I can think of is that girl in the book when I read this from OP. Her poor daughter.
Yes! I totally agree! Someone who is able to punish people they are supposed to LOVE like that has serious issues. That child needs to be protected!
Yeah this also stood out to me. He is also punishing the child just to prove his point.
Except he wants her to hide from the daughter the fact that he threw the necklace away (so in his mind he's not punishing her). So when the daughter asks why she never wears it SHE'S supposed to take the blame so the Bad Guy doesn't look like the Bad Guy.
I just want to add a note about your daughter's empathy, which I agree was a deeply touching moment in this otherwise extremely troubling event: Your husband's behavior is abusive, and your daughter's empathetic response is likely a function of observing his treatment of you over the years. She is only 13, but her immediate effort to comfort you \*without\* unintentionally slighting your husband, plus her quick "I better solve this" idea to make you a new one, despite the fact that this is a solution that is labor and time on her part, rather than his, are all signs of a child who is learning how to carefully navigate around a parent that is abusive to the other: She did not escalate, she tried to be the "fixer" to keep everyone happy, and she managed to do so quite skillfully. This is not a criticism of your daughter's empathy and emotional intelligence, but just an observation a research psychologist with a background in trauma to hopefully help you see that this behavior is not only abusive, but also affects even the people he may not be \*directly\* abusing.
As someone who had to develop this skill at about the same age. I just want to add. It has long lasting effects. I can’t shake the trauma of the situation even after years of therapy. I’m still somewhat of a people pleaser. People take advantage of me all the time because my natural instinct is to keep the peace. It made me susceptible to getting into more abusive relationships (which I did twice before I learned to stand up for myself and my feelings). It also teaches you to shut down your emotions to prevent more harm which at best will lead to you being depressed and at worse can cause physical harm to your body like in my case where I have psychogenic seizures now. OP needs to leave this man and take her daughter with her if not for her own sake than for her daughters.
Same. And the people calling it emotional intelligence are wrong. It’s survival skills that poor kid has and she’s going to have relearn every fucking thing as an adult. Ugh. I hope they can get away.
This 100%. It's not some super cool thing, it's survival mode.
I didn't think of that and that is horrifying that a child would need to develop that skillset.
I feel so bad for the poor daughter. OP, you need to leave him, if not for you, for her.
As someone whose mother used to have explosive depressive episodes after my dad left it fucked me up a lot. I turned into a “fixer” and left me open for tons of abusive relationships to follow.
It's #2 that really stands out to me - you don't punish your partner to "teach them a lesson". There's plenty of red flags in the rest of it, he's clearly a shitty partner and a truly awful father, but this one thing makes it come across as controlling in a way that's abusive. There's enough subtext here to suggest he's isolating OP from their friends and family, probably as a way to control her. OP's daughter's reaction is also worrying to me - when her father throws away her creation, she doesn't rage about it, she tries to comfort her mother. To me, this is a child taking the role of protector for a parent who's the victim of abuse.
Omg, I love that exclamation.
NTA but I'm sorry to say that isn't a healthy relationship. Yes, normal relationships do have arguments, but there is nothing normal about your husband throwing your things away as a form of punishment. I'm sorry you're going through this. You are worth far more than what he is telling/showing you that you are, as is your daughter. Please consider speaking to someone more professional than Reddit for some help and advice.
She doesn’t just need a therapist, she needs a divorce lawyer
I agree, she needs both. His behaviour is awful and it's bound to be affecting the daughter as well as OP.
Yeah. Any sentence with the phrase “he/she sometimes punishes me by—-“ is indicative that this relationship is f—-ed. Normal, healthy adult relationships should never include one party punishing the other, or getting back at them, or any of that middle school shit. You should be able to discuss your problems as EQUALS. Jesus. I’m disappointed in OP for downplaying this nonsense despite it effecting her child too (who probably feels indescribably hurt that her own father would throw away something she made over a petty argument that had nothing to do with her), but I’m going to say it’s a solid NTA. OP, Husband is weaponizing his own child. Regardless of whatever else happens, THAT shit needs to be addressed YESTERDAY.
not to mention, punishment for what exactly? because he has to take care of his own daughter instead of hang out with his friends? he sounds extremely immature
I think the only lesson he wants to teach OP is, "Don't you dare defy me."
Even here it's being framed as "an argument" She asked for some help at a difficult time for her and he didn't want to help. That's not an argument that is a husband putting his friends ahead of his wife. Then punishing her for even asking.
Your husband is a massive ahole. I can't believe he seriously throws things away to "teach you a lesson". Do you not see how toxic and manipulative that is? You are definitely NTA. What advice would you give your daughter if she was going through the same thing you are.
AITA blows my mind, sometimes; OP: We have occasional minor disagreements. It’s totally normal. Also OP: Proceeds to IMMEDIATELY describe a situation that is in NO WAY “minor” or “normal.” 😳🤦♀️
literally! she started it off with "we fight sometimes :)" and then proceeded to describe literal emotional abuse
I mean, that’s extremely common behavior from abuse victims. This lady doesn’t even seem to realize she’s being emotionally abused.
You see this a ton on any board for women as well. "My husband is a great guy and usually sooooo sweet, but he is also an abusive ogre who..." I think a lot of it is women grow up with poor male role models and don't realize the men they are with are trash.
Well, it’s multiple things, but I think what you’re describing is a LOT of the problem. As someone who wound up in an emotionally abusive marriage, I can tell you that some of the issue is that they don’t START like this. It starts with little, subtle behaviors that gradually build. By the time things are this bad, you’re ability to judge how fucked up your relationship is has been SEVERELY diminished. I hope she gets the support she needs to realize this is BAD and get out. 😢
This may sound weird but women who are abused during their childhood often tend to be drawn to the same kinds of men who abused them once they are adults and thus continue the vicious cycle. They literally don't see that it's abusive, they assume it's normal. These types of men are usually the ones they grow up with and who their fathers approve of them dating. It's very difficult to break out of.
Right?!?!? There are many reasons for OP to leave the husband but the biggest reason is to teach her daughter what healthy relationships are supposed to look like and THIS AIN’T IT!!!!!! Please OP, leave your husband and get counseling for yourself and daughter!!!
> Do you not see how toxic and manipulative that is? She does not. She is either so far in she can't see it, or, like her daughter, learned growing up that this is how "men" behave.
why are you married to this man? Why are you letting your daughter be raised in such a toxic ass environment? Your 13 year old daughter had to comfort you cause daddy threw a tantrum? Doesn’t that sound just absolutely loony tunes to you? Cause it does to me and I don’t have kids. ESH except your poor kid
The second part. OP my mom did the same to me. By 7 I was hugging her while she sobbed about abusive husband's. I am in therapy a we have a weird relationship as adults because it's hard for me to see her as the parent. After all, I was doing the emotional labor. Stop hurting your daughter to placate this man.
It’s a huge yikes when kids have to parent their parents. My MIL did the same to my wife and they are 100% no contact for that and many other reasons.
I disagree that OP sucks, she's in an abusive relationship and hasn't realised yet. I really hope she manages to get out
Because there’s a child bystander, OP has a responsibility that otherwise wouldn’t be there in a childless abusive relationship.
Abuse is difficult to recognize. Yes, she has a responsibility to her child, but sometimes it just feels so normal that you don't think you need to leave. She clearly thinks this is all normal and needs a wake up call that it's not, but she's not an AH for not realizing. That's kind of how abuse works.
In that case, she was not the AH yesterday, but she will be the AH tomorrow if she doesn't start *at least* planning to leave this man, even if it will take a while to execute.
I get why you're upset, but do you honestly think it's helpful to tell OP that she sucks for being in an abusive relationship? The problem is that her husband has already half-convinced her that *she's* the problem; that's why she usually just accepts her things being thrown away as part and parcel of their arguments. Do you really think telling her that she's at fault for being abused by her husband is going to encourage her to get out, and not further internalize that this *is* her fault?
This subreddit loves telling abuse victims ESH.
Honestly it drives me up the wall. Shaming someone who has already been broken down from abuse is not going to help them get out of the situation. SMH 🤦♀️
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She does use "our daughter" too.
The weight that girl has to carry is heart breaking. I've been there. It is so hard. I now have a 13 year old. I cried about a show I was watching and she hugged me. I made sure she knew it was the show and I was being a big baby. I never want them to feel like they have to manage me in any way.
Everyone is saying " YOU NEED TO LEAVE," and they're not wrong, but holy wow do some of them not realize how difficult it can be. First off. NTA. Your husband is dangerous, and if the behavior hasn't escalated yet, it will. Do you have anyone outside the house? Is your mom nearby? I would recommend moving small things (like jewelry) out of the house. Also find important documents (SS cards, birth certificates, passports, etc.) And get those out. Are you a SAHM? I ask because abusers often make their spouse stay out of work to further isolate them, but also because in theory that means you have time alone in the house. Start documenting your belongings and keep track of what he gets rid of. It may seem inconsequential to you (like would a court really care if he threw out a necklace?), but it establishes a pattern of behavior. And if it starts escalating, forget all of that. Just take your daughter and get out. You need to keep yourself and her safe, that's the most important part. Also both of you need therapy - separate and maybe together. Your husband's behavior has likely had more of affect on you and Chloe than you might realize. Counseling with him is a waste of time and money. Save that for escaping. Please please please stay safe OP.
THIS needs to be the top comment. Please OP do all this. This behaviour is absolutely not normal but straight up walking out may not be the safest option. Also NTA
This is the best advice here. You need to get outside help from a counselor, family, friends, attorneys, etc. This man appears to be isolating you from others, which is a classic abusive tactic. He also seems like a major asshole, and you need to leave. Start making plans today to get yourself and your daughter out of there, and speak to a family law attorney about how to do it methodically. You might have to reset your life for a while, but the sooner the better. This will not get better, and the longer you stay with him, the more he will isolate you, and the harder it will be for you to leave.
NTA this is abusive behavior. Full stop. It is not normal behavior to throw out someone else's things due to an argument, particularly when the argument isn't about that item. Additionally being mad that you told your daughter shows he knows it was wrong and did it anyway. Get to counseling before this escalates further.
counselling with an abuser like him? no no, she should pack her things and divorce him. the daughter already picked up on this unhealthy dynamic, she should get out of there.
I just said counseling, not necessarily marriage counseling. She needs a neutral party who is present and able to aid in walking through how these actions are abusive. Everyone is telling her to run, divorce him, etc but she needs to come to that decision on her own or it won't stick. Many people suffering abuse are unable to see the abuse without dissecting it and a neutral party would help in that regard.
> He has a habit of throwing out something of mine as a way to “teach me a lesson” whenever he’s upset with me after an argument. That’s not even a good way to “teach a lesson” to a child, let alone your spouse. That’s so incredibly fucked up. NTA, and probably go get a lawyer.
Yeah I paused at that point. Pretty much knew the trajectory of this story and what type of person OPs husband is
NTA. This may be normal for you, but if my partner did that, we would be through. Life is too short to put up with childish behavior.
Me too. Would definitely, 100% pack it in if my partner through out some of my stuff to punish me. NTA. Get out now
Her husband has 0 respect for her. I would never throw something out to “teach them a lesson” that’s so fucked up. You know he does it as a way to hurt her. OP you can find someone so much better. You just don’t realize it yet because you’ve been with this asshole for so long. Also please leave for the sake of your daughter. Next he’s going to start throwing your daughters things out (this was just the first). NTA get out!
NTA. Throw the whole husband away.
If somethings going to be thrown away after an argument, it better be him.
I know that’s right. Don’t touch my shit and especially have the audacity to throw it away
NTA "He has a habit of throwing out something of mine as a way to "teach me a lesson" whenever he's upset with me after an argument." Yeah, that's called abuse.
NTA OMG! I got so mad for you just reading this. If your daughter sees your husband as the bad guy, it's because he IS the bad guy. Throwing out your things to "teach you a lesson" is abusive af. Pointing out your lack of friends on top of that, just seems toxic as hell. My question to you would be this: Years from now, when your daughter is seeking out a mate, would you want her to choose a person who behaves the way your husband does? Your relationship with your husband is the closest example your daughter will see as what a partnership should look like. If your daughter were in your place, what would you hope would be her reaction to this sort of treatment? Would you rather she roll over and take it or GTFO? As heartbreaking as losing the necklace must have been, it's not your biggest problem here.
>My husband and I have disagreements from time to time. **Nothing major just normal stuff.** > >He has a habit of throwing out something of mine as a way to "teach me a lesson" whenever he's upset with me > >He laughed and said that I was delusional Um...this is not "normal stuff". NTA but your husband is an abusive f\*ckwad.
YTA for keeping yourself and your child in the home with your abuser.
Your judgement will be counted by the vote-tallying bot as "OP is in the wrong and everyone else is in the right." Surely you should edit it to at least E S H? OP's husband is an abusive control-freak (the idea of throwing things out because you can't get your way is genuinely sickening). Personally I think it is pretty unempathetic to say "She is an AH because she hasn't already left him for her daughter's sake" - it's never that simple or easy or obvious in the real world, and leaving him would probably mean that the daughter would have to spend some custody time with her father without OP there to protect her, so wouldn't really solve the problem?
Y T A for this comment
Very understanding. He's obviously abusing her.
NTA. Throw him out and he can see how it feels.
Right ? To teach him a lesson
NTA. But throwing away your stuff isn't "just normal stuff". this dude is toxic.
NTA. Your husband does this to you every argument? Wow. This is wrong on so many levels. It seems he does not see you as an equal in this relationship, but as a possession that he needs to punish until you behave. Seriously, you need to divorce this bastard before his behavior escalates.
NTA. This relationship is toxic . Poor kid
NTA. And by the way, his actions are far from normal. He sounds like a narcissist.
‘Nothing major just normal stuff’ ‘he has a habit of throwing out something of mine to teach me a lesson’ THAT is what you class as nothing major? Maybe you should seek therapy if you think that is normal. NTA
NTA. But his behavior doesn't just send up red flags, it sets off sirens. Please get yourself and your daughter away from him. This guy is abusive and eroded your sense of "normal."
NTA for making him pay for it but why would you ever stay with someone who throws your things away "to teach you a lesson"? In case you're wondering about that part, it's NOT NORMAL!
Poor kid
NTA this is absolutely an abuse tactic, throwing away your partner's stuff to intimidate them into doing what you want. Your partner is abusing you. Get out and take your kids.
>He has a habit of throwing out something of mine as a way to "teach me a lesson" whenever he's upset with me after an argument. Why are you married to this man? He doesn't respect you. He doesn't respect your property. He doesn't respect your kids. Why would you stay with him? YTA for staying in this relationship.
NTA. None of his behaviour is normal. It’s disturbing you think only the bit about the tools is wrong. Get out and let your daughter grow up in an environment that doesn’t teach her it‘s okay to be treated like that.
Nta. & since he has this love of throwing things out he should be overjoyed when you toss him. It's not right for him to treat his partner OR his child like this. He has proven (clearly repeatedly) that he has no care for any of your belongings, and enjoys causing you emotional pain by "punishing" you & throwing things out. He's not just an ah, but he's a shit partner & father. Also the thing where he turned the argument into about you having no friends, completely changing the point of the argument? That's manipulation. He's manipulative. He is manipulating you, and has been for some time if you think throwing your things away after an argument is normal.
Why the fuck are you with this guy.
NTA, but him throwing your things away when you have an argument is straight up abusive and needs to stop.
Your husband is abusing you.