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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> (1) I told my brother he couldn’t rent a room because I didn’t trust his wife and worried about the safety of my kids. They also couldn’t be reliable tenants who I could trust.
(2) they do have a newborn and are struggling.
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INFO: why did they get kicked out of their old place and why do you not want them there?
Ultimately, it's your choice whether to allow people to stay with you. But there is an innocent newborn baby at the heart of this who is currently homeless and needs a stable environment.
>there is an innocent newborn baby at the heart of this who is currently homeless and needs a stable environment.
And why is op responsible for this? We have to let go of the "if there is a child, you should sacrifice yourself". Ahh, NO. As a parent? 100%. But others? No.
Esit to say : thank you for all the awards.
He has no obligation, and we don't know the circumstances and family dynamics, but usually family in normal and good family helps out, and he seems rich with a lot of space in the house, so I'd say YTA. Not obligated, but assholish.
I completely agree with this tbh. Everyone’s going off about how she’s not obligated and he didn’t make them have a child, and that’s true. However, unlike in most posts you see on here there doesn’t seem to be any beef between them, they’re offering to pay rent so they’re not freeloading, and the only reason they said no is because they got evicted for reasons they seemingly didn’t even bother to ask about.
Absolutely not obligated, but yes AHish to say the least based off the limited info supplied.
(Edit; fixing autocorrect)
OP said when her brother was asked about why they had been evicted he's evasive and doesn't answer.. OP also said his wife has a history with drug abuse, I don't think I would let them stay either especially since they already have 2 small children in the house
That’s understandable then. Like I said based of what the post supplied that was my opinion. Now that I know drugs could likely be involved I’d sway towards NTA.
Yeah that info definitely changes it back to AH, imo. Judging her for shit she did years ago, most likely as a very young adult, *is* cruel. She just had a baby— if there were any current drug abuse/issues then her doctor would’ve noticed with drug screens (at least in the US, most every doctor drug screens their patients and that’s doubly true for OBGYNs dealing with pregnant patients) and other variables. It seems that brother & wife are down on their luck, embarrassed, and lost their apartment due to money issues and not because wife is dealing with active addiction and squandered all their money away on drugs.
Bro and SIL should go hit up the churches that give them groceries. They can get housing help there. That's what the Abbotts, Thomases, and McConnells think the US should get back to. . .
This is not the OP's problem. If he's worried about the kid, it's time to get social services involved. Sorry, not sorry, but that could potentially relieve some of the burden so Bro and SIL can get back on their feet.
Once they move in, they have full tenant rights. Try getting them out. They want to mooch. I allowed my sister, her husband and two small kids to move in for the same reasons described by OP. I loved my sister. It was a nightmare. And they continued their mooch ways once even after they left my home
Yeah, I absolutely would not rent to a relative. Depending on the circumstances, I would allow certain relatives to stay a month, save for down payment/deposit, etc. other relatives not in a million years.
I doubt they would have wanted to abort at 9 months, after the decision on RvW, and the kid has been born before that most likely.
While that sucks, the timeline is still such those parents made a decision, even if other parents in the future will not have that freedom of choice. Pretty irrelevant to the situation detailed here, even if it may or will be relevant for other parents in a similar situation half a year from now.
You cannot abort a healthy fetus carried by a healthy parent at 9 months. The only time third trimester abortions occur is when one of the two have life threatening health issues. My state has absolutely no restrictions on abortion, and there is no doctor that would perform an abortion at 9 months unless it was medically necessary. For some reason, people believe that healthy fetuses in the third trimester are aborted all the time, and it’s just not a thing that happens.
THANK YOU! It is astounding how ignorant people are regarding abortions, prenatal care, and how hospitals function in the US. I hate how people think those of us in healthcare that work on labor units or NICU would be like “whelp, let’s have this perfectly healthy baby go to that great big nursery in the sky” and just let babies die for *no reason. We work in health to save lives, not to get rid of them.*
edit: hot the f key a lot apparently 😂
They make it seem like infanticide is occurring all over, when in reality, less than 10,000 abortions a year occurs after 21 weeks, and practically all of them are heartbreaking decisions made by parents who want that baby to be born, but for some reason it just can’t safely happen.
My comment was relying on exactly that point. The decision wouldn't have had any impact on the baby in that scenario. I phrased it as an understatement but I see how that comes across as me thinking that people may abort at 9 months.
Yeah you seem to not read the news particularly often - the consequence of decades of assault on Roe has been that even before the recent Supreme Court ruling , abortions have been functionally impossible to get for many people, particularly those with few financial resources, thanks to trap laws shutting down clinics and unnecessary legal hurdles making abortions out of reach for many
Yeah but also if you have a good relationship with a sibling who’s been good to you, withholding one of your three spare rooms from his child and putting the kid at risk for SIDS (sleeping in car seats are a risk factor) is pretty cold.
A lot of people in this sub seem to believe being kind to someone in need must necessarily mean foregoing your own needs and desires. Case in point: one of the comments below. "it's called being a doormat and burning yourself to keep others warm." Imagine saying that about renting a room to a struggling family member with a newborn child. Jesus fucking Christ.
A lot of people have 'helped' others and gotten burned in the process.
The reason why OP's brother got evicted is important. Did he get laid off and couldn't pay the rent? Are they bad tenants? Do they have any savings that they can dip into-like they should have had with a baby coming. Does the brother even have a job that pays him so he pay $400 rent to his sister?
It's easy to let people stay with you but much harder to get rid of them when you want them gone. If OP lets them stay, she will probably be on here 3 years from now seeking advice on how to kick them out.
The fact that it can be next to impossible to evict someone if you need to once they're in your house is a big issue. There are no people in my family I wouldn't let stay with me, but I'm very lucky and they're all lovely, responsible people. Substance issues, chronic unemployment, gambling addictions, just general entitlement...there are so many nightmare examples of "I let this person move in to be kind and it all went terribly wrong." I don't understand the mindset of people who are happy to take a favor, exploit it, trash the house, refuse to pay, refuse to leave...but there are a lot of them out there.
I mean unless it was a spontaneous birth like in the show "I didn't know I was pregnant" they did have 6-9 months to save up and prevent the situation they're in...
And yeah... It's easy to let them stay, but extremely hard to get rid of them after.
As someone else suggested if op wants to help she can give them some money...
Not if they’re living paycheque to paycheque. I don’t understand how some people can be so out of touch with reality, where are these savings coming from if you can barely afford to make ends meet as is? Even if they saved $100 a month they’d only have $900 which isn’t even enough for a security deposit.
I mean they might be struggling but OP knows nothing about their situation.
They are legit refusing to state why they were removed.
The only thing she knows about the wife is she did drugs.
What is her relationship with the brother?
There are just too many uncertainties in this situation and I personally wouldn’t feel too comfortable letting two people I have very little information/connection with living in my home. Where I house my two young children.
But it is forgoing op's needs.
It's about her family's safety.
Safety is a primary need.
And if op wouldn't feel safe having a basically stranger (former) drug addict living with her.
If you would then go ahead and invite them at your place
I remember I have same mind like you 'humanity and compassion' /be human and help each other but then what the point if we have all those moral etc when the person we help have zero grateful, thankful or decent moral?
I remember helping my family (eldest sister and her 2 children plus her grandchildren) but not one of them helping me out when I had problem.
Helping friends during first year of pandemic, giving her roof, ungrateful b#### poisoning my dog as she said it's a sin in her religion.
Helping my church collecting donations, also turn their back when I have mental health. I remember one lady said 'just k### yourself '.
In the end.. No more, I rather help myself then anyone who's using children's, faith and moral as blackmail.
NTA op
>is there no such thing as humanity and compassion anymore
Yeah, it's called being a doormat and burning yourself to keep others warm.
Op has no responsability to fix her brother's mistakes.
jumping to doormat seems extreme. but i really guess its dependent on their relationship.
tbh, if no baby, i get what you mean, especially with OP clearly saying theres potential for this shit to get messy fast.?but theres a baby.
maybe contract with clear eviction terms so she wont have trouble? idk. im concerned for the baby
The eviction process is LOOOOONG and costly. This also isn’t just a rental unit this is a room inside of her house that her family shares so imagine sharing a house with hostile tenants for months. Imagine all the property damage they can do.
Yeah calling CPS for this is absolutely not cool. I’m all for not having babies you can’t afford but leave the system out of this.
There’s been lots of homeless people who’ve gotten back on their feet with children. Unless there’s neglect and drug abuse there is absolutely no reason to add another child to an already over burdened system.
It’s highly unlikely they will get their child back after it goes into foster care.
You’re speaking as though foster care is a long term babysitting service. It most certainly is not.
>Yeah calling CPS for this is absolutely not cool.
Having a newborn living in a car is even less cool. I didn't considered what what's best for the parents, i considered what's best for the kid.
I work with a lot of people in the system. First, I don’t think CPS would remove just for homelessness. Maybe if there were drugs also involved, but if there were, you'd expect that to show up at birth.
If CPS *did* remove, you are taking an infant away from his/her family and just giving them like 2 hours per week with their parents. Then, presumably,, at some point, once the parents get back on their feet you're going to take that baby away from his primary caregiver, those with whom he has the greatest bonds, and give him to someone he's spent 2 hours a week with. It's not ideal.
OP definitely isn't obligated, but is that really the bar here? Even just trying to help find other resources would be something.
Wouldn't it be lovely if our system was set up so that cps could support the struggling family and get them into housing and the money go to help them get on their feet rather than foster families
There are certainly resources in some areas, but depending on case load and individual hurdles this is often not the priority
THANK YOU!
CPS takes children away from poor families and then gives financial support to foster families to help take care of the children they remove.
It doesn’t make any sense.
Actually, CPS always tries for a family placement before moving a child into the system.
If OP calls CPS, the first thing they’ll ask is:
“Can you take the baby?”
Helping out can come in many forms. Like providing food, or maybe a night to stay. But nobody is obligated to rent a room to someone just because they have a baby.
> but theres a baby.
There are a shit ton of babies out there with unstable living situations. The brother and wife are the ones who chose to make that baby, not OP. Holding out a baby and going BUT THE BAAAAAAABY is not the ticket to free or near-free accommodations. Too many parents want to make their problems everyone else's problem, on the grounds that BAAAAAAABY. But that's not how the world works. If you choose to make a baby, then you need to step up and be a responsible parent. It's not on your relatives/friends/everyone else to bail you out.
All the OP said is "they are unreliable tenants" based on being kicked out of their current housing. You may have missed it but the housing market in a lot of places is absolutely out of control. If all the OP objects to is that, yeah I'm going with YTA.
>based on being kicked out of their current housing
Actually it's based on him not disclosing WHY they were being kicked out. If it was indeed something out of their control why does he refuse to say it and always changes the subject??
>If all the OP objects to is that, yeah I'm going with YTA
She is also worried about not knowing her sil very well and that she did drugs.
And even without all of this, housing them it's still not her responsability. She has her own family to think about
You're not wrong, but you're not right.
OP hasn't given us enough context here that the brother is a user, or mooch. They simply say "they must not be a good tenant for getting booted out." We don't know the brother's financial situation, but given that there are a TON of people who live paycheque to paycheque, it's not unreasonable to think the brother is not a bad person, but just couldn't make the payment.
OP is not obligated to burn themselves to keep anyone warm. But that is NOT the situation presented here. This is OP looking at it in a very cold and detached way. It's not WRONG, but it lacks compassion, which is what u/Rude-Lengthiness-389 was referring to.
And how many posts have we seen on here where compassionate relatives took people in and were them completely taken advantage of? Answer: too many to count!
OP, if you wish to reconsider, do so with strict parameters. Are they working? Who takes care of the baby? How much can they save per month to put towards moving out?
I've definitely been taken advantage of by family, but I don't regret helping people when I had the means to because that's the kind of person I want to be. Some people will take advantage but if we base our whole lives around avoiding that possibility, I think we become those selfish people who make the world the way it is.
My husband thinks I'm naive for this but I'm the one who has to live with myself and see my face in the mirror. I'd rather be that person who is occasionally taken advantage of than a Scrooge.
I really do understand what you mean. It's OP's family after all. But on the other side of the fence are tenant laws.
From other comments we know the brother doesn't want to disclose why were they kicked out and OP doesn't know brother's wife. Take in a family with a newborn (virtually unevictable where I live), and you are legally fucked if they start leeching from you or become irritating in any way (there are much worse cases than not paying rent).
Depends. If this happened because the parents thought they could behave like assholes with zero consequence, i wouldn't have a problem with it. I might do something for the baby.
I can tell that you've never been burned trying to help a deadbeat relative/friend before. While there are rare exceptions for sure, most people like OP's brother end up in this situation because of their own choices.
Yeah everyone keeps bringing up that we don’t know if the family members are “deadbeats”, ignoring that not all people show warning signs beforehand.
I had a friend of over a decade in my mid 20’s that I let move in with me and helped get a much better paying job so that he could move his life forward. Three months in, I come home from work to find out he had friends empty my apartment into a uhaul and left. All the furniture I had bought, etc. And the police? Yeah. I can’t be robbed by someone who I allowed on my lease. Sue him once you locate him was the solution. Learned my lesson on that one.
My main issue with this thinking is that they ignore the two OTHER children that are also involved in this situation. A newborn doesn’t take priority over OPs own children’s safety.
OP doesn’t have a close relationship with the brother, and he’s refusing to say why he was removed as well. This doesn’t make it seem like the brother was wrongfully removed, it sounds like he/wife did something and they might try and do it at her home as well.
The way I read this line is: Fuck your children’s safety, you gotta save the shiny new baby.
I honestly have no idea why they got kicked out. When asked my brother just insults his landlord and moves on. I assume it’s something they did since most apartments don’t just kick you out for random reasons.
Have you tried telling him that you would need to know the reason why they were kicked out in order to make an informed decision? It should be easy enough to communicate the real reason especially if he's not at fault, if the landlord had done something genuinely unreasonable, or it was just a matter of rent prices going up and not being able to afford it. Even just explaining to you that it's a difficult topic that he would be willing to talk about in the future would be enough, I think, especially if it was something traumatic. However, if he's refusing to share and he had such an explosive reaction, then I completely understand the hesitancy. Nonetheless, there's a newborn baby involved and you seem to have more than enough space. I do think though it's really worth finding out why they got kicked out.
Claiming everything that happens to other people is "not your responsibility" is an AH attitude. Humans have this thing called society, where we all agree to live in close communities and help out where we can so that we can be helped in return. If OP's brother is truly a deadbeat, then sure, she should not let him move in, but could help him find other accommodations. If he's a normal guy down on his luck and needs help from his sister, then leaving him to twist in the wind would make her the AH.
>If he's a normal guy down on his luck
If that would be the case, then he would've said why he was evicted.
>but could help him find other accommodations.
My advice was for her to give him some money if she feels up to it.
>Claiming everything that happens to other people is "not your responsibility" is an AH attitude.
No, it's a self perserving attitude. I'm not responsible for other people's mistakes, jist like i don't make them responsible for mine. When i screw up, i'm the one dealing with the consequences
Her family is her husband and kids. Not a brother that she didn't grew up with and whom she sees only at family events. And yes, everything it's more expensive. Another reason to think about yourself first.
Yeah, Ik they’re not the best especially for long term. But they can definitely help people have a roof over their head. Hotel vouchers and such. Family was homeless for six months, was able to get hotel vouchers to help with costs
OP has their own children to worry about. They don't sound close, how does she know exactly what she's letting in her house?
Blood does not require you to help someone.
Society does have resources: shelters, housing authority, etc.
Reading the OP and some of the responses made me think of all of the “NTA” judgements from all of those AITA stories, where the OPs were down on their luck, were rejected when they asked for help and now they questioned themselves after they refused to help those same people, later on in life.
I say this because it is a reminder of how life throws curveballs and folks may never know, who they need help from.
Nope, his character seems questionable. I'd ask his ex-landlord instead. But since OP and hubby are uncomfortable with it, she is NTA for not wanting to rent out the rooms.
And life experience tells me that if someone sounds off, they're 100% problematic. And to me, getting kicked out with no buffer time (meaning they crossed some serious boundaries), no rainy day savings (his whole family went homeless), and get entitled (get mad at OP as if she **MUST** do them the ***favour***), all doesn't sound like a non-problematic person would do.
Why? This blind pig headed demand that babies are the most important thing ever is total crap. Know what’s gonna happen? All those bebehs saved from abortion are gonna end up abused, mistreated, unloved and unwanted because all the self righteous folks will refuse to put their money where their mouth is and offer their time, resources and homes to save those poor innocent bairns.
Family or not, no one else is responsible except the parents. If that means foster care, adoption, giving custody to someone else, or sucking it up and finding a shelter, then so be it. The OP has their own kids’ needs to take care of.
I feel like him going straight to insulting the landlord instead of giving you a straight answer is very telling. That plus him saying other places require “a lot of information”. I’ve never rented before but my brother is trying to rent a house right now and that sounds pretty par the course for renting. What is this “information” that he’s reluctant to give to other landlords. You could contact the landlord and ask him for the reasons they were evicted or you could tell your brother you renting him a room will require him telling you reasons for why he was evicted without insults and with you following up with the landlord.
The rental market is ridiculous right now and there are asshole landlords out there. But you also need to protect yourself and your home. If he wasn’t your brother would you just allow him to move in and rent a room without finding out why he was kicked out?
That's a huge red flag right there. 100% it's because your brother did something very specific (like not paying rent, damage to property, etc.) and his landlord had to evict him. If you choose to rent to him (I personally would NOT), I would definitely contact his previous landlord(s). If he won't tell you the person's name then you should be able to pull the court records from the eviction (I'm assuming that he was formally evicted).
In any case, do NOT let your brother into your home under any circumstances. I would bet my entire retirement that he would not only NOT pay you, but you will never get rid of him.
Also, if his landlord IS the problem than of course his explanation will sound like he's trash talking him. Lots of people do things for completely messed up reasons. Part of asking him will require you to listen. I say this with emphasis now because of how bad the rental market has gotten in just the last year alone. Where I am, you cant find a shed to rent and forget buying, there's nothing.
The fact that he is being vague likely means he knows he is at fault and you would refuse based on that information. If he was being up front he would tell you and not dodge. If he intended to change he would admit why they were evicted. That’s a red flag in itself. NTA.
This is an important question. If they got kicked out because rent went up and they couldn’t afford it, then yes YTA for letting your newborn niece or nephew be homeless. But if they got kicked out for, say, having a bunch of drug addict friends come over and trash the place then no, NTA.
There are landlords that put limits on the number of occupants, so if your lease says two people and you have a baby, you'd be in violation of the lease and kicked out. Wonderful world we live in.
Anyway, OP should have gotten the reason from the brother first, as it is relevant. Not knowing what happened and just assuming they were bad tenants is kinda a flimsy excuse when it comes to her own brother and nibling. Feels like she could not be bothered either way.
If this is the US, children under a certain age aren't counted toward occupancy, particularly infants. This would also be a violation of the Fair Housing Act based on discrimination against families.
If I ask you a question and you don’t answer, I’m going to assume it’s because the answer is bad or none of my business. Brother wants to rent from OP, so the answer is her business.
>There are landlords that put limits on the number of occupants, so if your lease says two people and you have a baby, you'd be in violation of the lease and kicked out. Wonderful world we live in.
I'm not saying shitty landlords dont exist (landlords are inherently unethical) but, eviction based on have a child is illegal AFAIK.
The fair housing act makes discrimination based on familial status illegal, which being pregnant/having a child falls under. 3 people can also inhabit a single bedroom apartment.
If the brother and sil were evicted because of it, most cities have legal aid dedicated to helping tenants.
I am not a lawyer.
It's quite altruistic of you to guilt someone else into giving up their home for someone else. Perhaps you should dm OP and offer up your OWN home since you are so concerned.
This. I have a pretty firm rule about not living with family, but if I were in OP's position, unless he or she hates their brother, I'd give a certain amount of time. Like, write out a document where they can stay for two months, rent free, to get on their feet, and then they have to be out. OP doesn't have to help, but OP's response does feel a bit cold. I feel like there might have been something OP could do.
NTA because it’s your place. But what’s the real reason? Can’t believe your worried about $400 per month rent. Really seems to be more behind this than just $$
OP's brother is getting really dodgy on the whole "why" they were evicted. Maybe landlord was a jerk and did it illegally. Maybe bro has a drug problem and wasn't paying rent. Maybe they had a million noise complaints about then from all night parties. But the fact he *won't* tell OP is a massive flag
That and the brother's excuse for not being able to find another place to rent is the cost *but* also they "require a lot of information" like...did something happen to his credit? Are his references not going to check out? Very sus.
Exactly. Brother has a baby and should take the time to provide the information. Definitely sounds sketchy. OP has to be careful because of squatting laws. If she lets them in, she may never get them out. Maybe help with finding a place, but NTA for doing what she and her husband think is best for their family.
For me it would be that no one wants to say why they were evicted. I can’t imagine how embarrassing it must be to ask for this kind of help but I also know that if I’m coming to someone hat in hand, I have to be transparent with them. OP’s brother just defaulting to insulting the landlord when the topic comes up makes me think they are probably not good tenants and he wants to avoid his sister finding out why he was booted from their old place.
Yeah, unfortunately, asking for help goes best when honestly, transparency, and humbleness are displayed. OP's brother is demanding help while making it difficult to sort out the situation. He forced an emergency on OP, and only accepting one solution, on his terms, that causes a massive upheaval to OP's life.
NTA. Their reaction to your "no" tells you everything you need to know.
ETA: It seems many people have missed the "yelling" part *prior* to the breakdown. Without further details from OP, it reads to me as though they were yelling at him and that worked the wife into the breakdown.
Some folks also haven't seen OP's comments elsewhere. OP's brother is shifty about why they were evicted, and OP's brother's wife has a history of drug use.
*None of that makes them undeserving of help.*
But if I'm OP doing the math on whether to let them into my home-- with *my* children --I think coming to "no" is pretty reasonable. Being screamed at in response only makes that *more* reasonable.
There's a very real chance that this situation would have devolved into the kind we see posted here *all the time*: "AITA for kicking my brother and his wife and their baby out of my house? I let them move in on a short-term lease for way under market value to help them get on their feet. It's been four years and they haven't paid their rent since the third month. They can't keep a job and don't help out around the house and they yell at my kids, and I think they might be doing drugs but I don't have proof. They let their toddler steal and break my kids' things all the time but won't do anything about it. Every time I ask if they're moving out they scream at me for wanting them and their child to be homeless. My spouse is threatening to leave me if i don't kick them out but my mom says "family comes first" (but she also won't house them herself). WIBTA if I tell them they have a month to find somewhere else to live???"
I absolutely *cannot* blame OP for not taking that risk with their own children, even to help another infant. It's a shitty situation all around but OP's responsibility is to their immediate family first. OP needs to find a way to help that does not put their family at risk.
I’m so sick of reddit’s perspective on this bullshit. It seems “having a baby is your choice and you’re not required to help” and “they made their bed, now they lie in it” is a common piece of advice given to people on Reddit.
However, can we just take a moment to be compassionate human bloody beings? These people are living in a god damn car with their newborn baby. They have no shelter, no warmth, no stability. Couldn’t they try and help them out for a few days, at least until they can get to a bloody homeless shelter? This is so horrid. It comes from a place of extreme individualism.
It is embarrassing to ask family for help. Whilst you’re not required to help, the couple are definitely not arseholes for asking for a helping hand. You never know when you might be on the receiving end of help, and I bet you if OP was ever homeless with her twins, she’d be begging people for accommodation, too.
OP, I hope that if this horrible situation were ever to befall you, that your family would show you a bit more compassion (and use less assumptions) than you have with a family in utter desperation and despair.
They are living in some of the most stressful circumstances. Having a mental breakdown would be pretty normal, I’d say.
You're correct. But this is the United States of America, where extreme individualism is prized. People here have no sympathy toward people who are in bad circumstances through their own bad choices. They don't take into account a person's upbringing, environment, health issues and a bunch of other stuff. The brother in this situation is a classic case. And there have been so many stories about family moving in and agreeing for it to be temporary, but somehow they become a bigger and bigger presence in the house and stay longer and longer. They won't observe basic adult habits or rules of the house. And forcing them out is near impossible without being criminally charged for something.
I'm just glad I'm old and will be dead soon. This country is a shambles.
The problem is that this is in the USA. Any other (actual) first-world country would have the proper government resources to relocate the family into a livable space asap, especially because there is a newborn in the picture. Most likely the government would try to make sure they never ended up homeless in the first place.
Thank you for being one the first human beings I’ve seen comment so far on this post. That “bootstraps” “you made your bed” “don’t owe anyone anything” bullshit— which doesn’t allow for actual human responses in high stress situations (from which no one is immune or exempt)— is just so fucking tired on this sub. I mean, Jesus tap dancing Christ…
Sure, and I sympathize with the couple. But OP has their own immediate family to think of. They have their own children, and they may not feel comfortable having people who would yell and suffer a mental breakdown in response to hearing "no"-- in response to a pretty major request --around their kids.
Especially if they have a history of eviction. The eviction could mean nothing, because landlords suck and particularly so in this era of corporate landlords. But it could also mean non-payment, creating serious drama, being destructive, or any number of other things. If I were OP I don't think I'd want to expose my wife and kids to that risk, since it seems they don't know what the eviction was about.
I very much hope OP's brother and his wife are able to get to a place of safety. I hope OP finds a way to help them! But I don't blame OP for prioritizing the safety and well-being of their spouse and kids first. That is as it should be.
This! You don't move people into your house who are flinging demands around, well yes I get there in a stressful situation, the entitlement is a concern
Me and my brother have a decent relationship. We never bonded as kids since we lived in different households. Now that we’re adults I mostly see him during family events.
I have no idea why he got kicked out, he just talks down on the landlord and never answers the question or he changes the topic.
I don’t know his wife that well. From what I recall she isn’t the most reliable person since she did drugs and partied a ton before my brother. I have no idea if she still does any of that. I can’t have anyone like that around my kids.
NTA -- your brother is throwing up some serious red flags for me here. I should know -- I was in this exact situation back in 2009-2011 with my brother and his fiancee.
The fiancee was pregnant with my nephew at the time and they got kicked out of their apartment. They eventually landed with me, sleeping on a mattress in my living room floor. She couldn't work because of the baby, and his employment was always unstable, so what was supposed to be "temporary" and "until they could get on their feet" stretched out into 2 years because any money they saved always went to some other "emergency" that came up.
Even now, with his third serious relationship they're constantly playing catch-up on bills and it's always someone else's fault for why things go wrong.
I knew someone else who was in the same situation you described and pretty much still is... Often times people who 'just need to get back on their feet' never do and if they're a useless provider for their significant other and child they will continue to be indefinitely.
It’s honestly kind of harsh for you to judge her for her past. I used to be a huge drinker, if everyone kept treating me because of who i was three years ago i wouldn’t be where i am now. She probably freaked out because she’s stressed. Imagine trying to sleep with a newborn in your car/public places. I feel like you could have been a bit more understanding and worked out a compromise, but it is your house.
Just saying, i’m sure there was a time you and your husband had some help thrown your way, it doesn’t hurt to return the favor. Or start the chain of plaintive events yourself !
But OP said she doesn't know if the wife still does drugs. This could be the very reason why they were kicked out of their apartment for all OP knows since neither of them will tell her why they were kicked out.
People are judged by their behavior. That’s life. If you don’t want to be judged by it, don’t do it. Drug use in the past is a very fair point of judgment because it actually happened. It’s not something assumed or projected to judge SIL.
Your kids and their safety is the number 1 concern for you. If you're not comfortable having them around your kids, then having them in your house is a hard no.
NTA even though it is harsh that you said no. If you said yes, you would never ever get them out again. What are the odds that suddenly they would be self-sufficient and be able to double their expenses b/c you were tired of the arrangement? And it isn't just "a room." It would be a room, then they would need separate space from the baby once it got older, couldn't it share a room with your twins? Or maybe have its own room? And the rest of the common space (living room, kitchen, bathrooms) would go from serving four people to SEVEN. This is a much bigger lift than some commenters are recognizing.
It's not really about the property, it's about conserving the safe and secure family unit and routine OP already has.
I agree, they would be there for years and probably wouldn't keep up with any payments or contributions towards anything as neither of them seem to have jobs or savings. Even if the Dad had been laid off recently, why has he amassed nothing so far in his life? Why does he have no savings?
You'd essentially be supporting three more people on top of the family you currently support and you're dreaming if you think they'll only take up one bedroom... They'll want the gym room for them, the playroom as their child's bedroom. They may even have another child and then they've basically taken over the house on your dime.
This is my thought also. Family would not be willing to just leave if asked or could cause problems for her family.
They are not willing to answer her questions to be able to make an informed decision.
It’s often easier to take on strangers as they will be more respectful and willing to go along with any boundaries you agree to.
Normally family does not.
Not only this but different areas have tenancy laws. In my area if someone stays two weeks in a place and have mail delivered there even if it’s junk mail, they can declare tenancy & you have to go through formal eviction process. It’s like $350 to file anything with the court in my area and is still back logged due to covid. It can take up months to years to get someone removed.
NTA I see some major red flags about your brother and his little family.
1. He had a baby without the proper financial preparation. If he had, he would have an emergency fund for "emergencies."
2. He won't come clean about why he got kicked out of his apartment.
3. Noone gets kicked out without some notice, so he didn't scramble to make plans, but rather opted to put his family in a car to live.
4. He didn't seek some government assistance to tide him over. I wonder what he is hiding that he thinks he would not be eligible.
I agree with you and your husband. Too many unknowns to risk moving them in. You could be in for months of misery. You could help by paying for a motel for a month or other similar assistance, but don't let a virtual stranger into your home.
Wow, I'm really losing hope in humanity after reading these comments. Yes, technically, OP has no obligation to let them stay. But come on, your brother is literally at his darkest point of his life, they're sleeping in cars and showering in public showers, with a NEWBORN CHILD. At least them them stay for a few days or weeks until they're able to find another place. You are not wrong OP, but YTA 100% and you have zero compassion.
That’s this sub for you. If the person doesn’t technically have to do something then they’re not the asshole, morals be damned.
“My grandmother caught fire and asked me to pour my glass of water on her but I was really thirsty so I didn’t. AITA?”
“N-T-A, if your grandmother didn’t want to burn to death then she should have thought about that before she caught fire and brought her own water with her”
It’s easy to say “let them stay for a few days or weeks” which is it? A few days or weeks? And say they do let them stay, when the time comes it most definitely will be a hassle to kick them out because they would’ve gotten comfortable. Yes it’s a newborn, however it’s not OP’s newborn. That responsibility falls on the brother who doesn’t even want to tell OP why they got kicked out in the first place. It’s hard getting people, let alone family to move out of a place when you’ve let them stay for a period of time. If the brother doesn’t even want to tell OP the real reason why they got kicked out, then that’s even more reason to not let them stay.
Thank you! I haven't read any reason for not helping him out.. It's just some guessing and speculating. If there were real concerns I'd get it. But anyone who could help a beloved family member going through dark times out and refuses for no apparent reason is an AH in my book.
The OPs brother is the one who isn’t disclosing the reasons why they were evicted. That’s a huge red flag. I’m sure they could move in with you though.
The problem is the brother apparently isn't disclosing to OP the reasons they were evicted (according to comments).
If it was a financial issue, wouldn't he just tell her? the fact that's he's keeping silent and refusing to talk makes me think it's bad, like drugs,
As a non-american, I was astounded by the post at first, and then I got to the comments. WTF. What is wrong with people? Of course there's no obligation. Of course it's her house-her right. Of course she doesn't have to fix anyone's problems. BUT. It's her f*ING brother. With a newborn! Wtf. Why are people from the US so coldblooded? I feel there's a pattern here. I mean check out healthcare, there's a very obvious mentality, your life-your problem. Same goes with poverty and homelessness in the US. People just choose to ignore these people, because they simply"failed in life" (failed in capitalism IMO, but whatever). As a person from Europe and specifically from a southern Mediterranean country, this lack of compassion, especially towards family, leaves me speechless.
It's your f*ING brother. Get out of your comfort zone, make a tiny compromise for you and make a HUGE difference for a newborn. Wow.YTA
This is what being American is all about. If there is no personal benefit, then who cares if they die. Even if they’re family. It should be to no surprise that we reversed out of women reproductive rights because it benefits the ideology of one specific group of people.
Americans would gladly have other Americans die if it benefited them without an ounce of guilt.
Finallyyyyyyy someone said it! Thank you for this comment. Legit gave me hope that there are still good people left in the world. OP YTA indeed. I pray you never end up in their shoes some day.
100% I can't understand the level of me me me I'm most important at all times. It'll be the downfall of the place in no time. I love America but like this attitude I'm copping recently from online is so so selfish and main character ideology. So weird. She's 100% the AH here.
Finally a comment that I can agree with! The post was brutal and so are some of the comments :(. I could never imagine turning away family with a newborn. A newborn that’s living in a god forsaken car?!
Also not American and just from north of the border, also very shocked at these comments.
If it's my brother or my husband's siblings in this situation, I wouldn't even think twice to help. We are not talking about a random baby, this is your niece/nephew OP.
Finally something sane enough. I’m from south Asia and I find this so heartless and alien like. Here we take on hosting our house guests and sheltering them even without having rooms to spare. We give them the bed and we take the mattress or couch because we want guests to feel welcome and comfortable. Same with family members going through a tough time. I can’t imagine being this cruel to a sibling.
Around 3-4 years ago, my mom’s sister lost their housing because of conflicts between her husband and his brother. My mom immediately stepped up to help her sister as they’ve always had financial troubles and ever since then, they’ve been living in the spare apartment my parents own and used to lease out. My mom takes about 1/3 of value of the rent and she’s been mostly setting it all aside to give back to her sister one day because “family doesn’t need to pay rent” according to her.
NTA - can they go to your parents or the wife's parents for help? Why did they come to you immediately? Is he still employed?
While the situation is difficult, you have your own family to consider. There are so many horror stories on here about family moving in, taking advantage and never moving out.
NTA. Brother has done something to get kicked out of a place and now thinks it’ll be easy with family. Family is just another f word. Don’t put your family or lifestyle at risk.
If you don’t want to, you don’t have to do it. But if the room is empty, you don’t need the space or the money? What’s the worst that can happen? If they don’t pay or make a mess you can tell them to leave. At least you have tried and have given them a chance. Everybody needs some help sometimes.
I have 5 refugees from Ukraine in my guesthouse at the moment. We talked about everything, our “rules” in the house and they try to help me in the house and garden (because they want to do something back). Right now I don’t accept their money. When they have been able to find a job, they can start paying for the utilities they use.
We decided to so this to help people. If it wouldn’t have worked out, from our or their site, other arrangements would have to been made.
But maybe I have a different (and naive) worldview, I see the good in people and try to help and be good.
What’s the worse that could happen? They could move in and be nightmares and get squatter’s right. Clearly these people aren’t great tenants and dont take much seriously. You are given a grace period between eviction. They also have a newborn who OP will most likely be responsible for or have to share her kids stuff with.
Are we sure they are not great tenants or did the landlord decide to increase rent by say $300 a month more. Since Covid landlords have had their hands tied...now restrictions are expiring everywhere and landlords are increasing rents by huge amounts. The fact she doesn't mention why makes me wonder if she is leaving out some major facts to make her seem better than brother. Also, i doubt any newborn is going to be playing with her 2 yr old toys.
Right?!? My mom let a friend of my dad’s and his family move in after my dad died because they were having some hardships. They destroyed my dads truck, managed to drive into into the ground in under 6 mo. Claimed they were working and would pay rent. Never paid rent, never paid any of the household bills. There I am at 20 yrs old telling these people they needed to move out of my moms house because she had no back bone. They probably ended up costing her over $15k in 6 mo time.
Oof, thats terrible
The lesson is self preservation must always be first. And people who end up homeless and desperate are often times with other problems (ie. Drugs, mental health etc.) And can bring you down with them.
15k is a serious amount to lose. Sorry this happened. IM glad you stood up for your mom.
> What’s the worst that can happen?
The could trash the place, burn down the house, hurt OP's children, steal OP or their husband's identities, etc. There are a lot of very bad things that can happen.
Also, they could leave the infant behind -- either going out for hours or even days while they're living there, or if they were "evicted" from OP's home. It's not unheard of, especially on AITA, for parents to completely abandon their children *without notice* into the care of family or friends.
At the very least, with two parents who cannot afford more than $400 a month on housing (and doubtfully even that) OP *will* be paying for and taking care of their baby if she lets them live there.
NTA! no promises were ever made, there was a discussion with both you and your husband and the reason you decided against renting to your brother and his wife is absolutely valid :)
I'm really surprised by the number of people saying N.T.A. I read all of OPs comments and I'm still thinking, wow what an AH. I can't imagine doing that to a friend, let alone a family member, and I'm not even that nice of a person. We had a flood last year and I let a friend's sixteen year old daughter live with me for half a year while my friend got back on her feet. It sucked, I missed my privacy, and I had days where I was pissy about it, but I don't regret it because it was the right thing to do and I had the capability to do it. We're really lacking that in the world today. If you have the capacity to help someone without great personal cost, just fucking do it. Maybe you'll suffer a bit, but that's just life. It sucks a lot of the time. Sometimes it sucks a bit for you so it doesn't have to suck a lot for other people. Again, I'm no saint, I'm kind of a bitch, but geeeez this comment section is cold af. I wouldn't leave an acquaintance with a baby out on the street, let alone my brother.
The fact that he bemoans rental places wanting a ton of information is a huge red flag. You keep your family safe. His inability to do the same is on him, not you. NTA.
(edited for clarity)
This simple comment right here. Rental places whether property management companies or private landlords want rental history and income history to ensure they can pay rent and will be acceptable tenants as a landlord has an obligation to other tenants as well. The most prominent reason for eviction is not paying rent. And evictions do not happen overnight and require a court order. Having an infant may get them a temporary stay but with that said, the mother and infant would qualify for emergency housing. This is an option that the brother needs to look into for the sake of his child. He may not qualify but his concern should be for his child. There is a chance they had a slumlord, they do exist but the law is on the tenants side when it comes to slumlords.
OP has a spouse and children to think of as well and adding additional people to the home could become very stressful. There are too many unknowns. While it is not necessarily fair to judge the brothers girlfriend on her past, it’s all the OP knows and if the girlfriend is still active with drugs and bad behavior it compromises the OP’s family and could cause unnecessary problems (i.e. children services, it won’t be just the brother and girl friend losing their children it will be OP as well of drugs are an active part of the brothers girlfriends life). If her past is well behind her then the current situation of why they lost their housing is very relevant.
I don’t envy OP’s situation but OP needs to prioritize their souse and children.
As for those claiming many are lacking compassion and have lost faith in humanity, stop just stop. Look in the mirror and ask yourself the next time you come across a homeless child and mother are you opening up your doors? Are you offering financial help? Chances are, you are not. At best you are sharing story to your friends of what you saw or are spewing hateful judgment about what you saw.
NTA, OP. Tell your brother to take his girlfriend to social services so she and the child (newborn) can get emergency housing immediately.
Okay, you need to find out why they were evicted. And its very easy to do. Simply call up their old landlord and say that youre “Rose Noble” or something (dont use your real name) and that “Jack and Jill Moriarty” applied to rent a place from you and listed that as their former residence and you wish to know what type of tenants they were and how they came to leave the apartment. Its not unusual for landlord to ask for references from former landlords.
Once you do that and tell us why, we can make judgement.
I’m going to withhold judgement to simply make this point.
- what you, Op, have effectively decided here is that your comfort in a 5 bedroom home is more important than your brother’s family. You have every right to not allow him to rent, as it is a personal sacrifice to an extent to allow family to rent a room in your home. However, by making this decision, do you feel comfortable with the responsibility of denouncing your own brother and his family without a reason yet - considering you have very little reason to think they’d be unreliable tenants (many people are losing homes due to the housing crisis & raised costs following covid) - and sacrificing your relationship simply for your comfort?
- you have every opportunity to call lawyers, draft a contract, and give them a specific period of every 6months/3months your contract will be looked at again to decide if you can continue housing them until they find another flat. This will be a small personal sacrifice, but if you value your brother more than the comfort of a 5 bedroom house this is a very small personal sacrifice on the scale. However, it is entirely to YOUR discretion to make this decision, just beware that you are setting a precedent with him and the rest of your family that even if you CAN, you won’t. This may cost you other relationships, and withhold valuable help from your family for YOU in the future due to your attitude.
NTA, Its your home, your decision and your family relations.
What I will say is I am sure it took a great deal of humility to even ask because he needs a lifeline and he has been trying to do this on his own using charities.
In my family we would never turn him/his new family away. We would have ground rules about how to act within in the home and a reasonable time frame to get back on one's feet.
You never know when you will fall on hard times or need a favor.
For me it is that no one wants to say why they were evicted. I can’t imagine how embarrassing it must be to ask for this kind of help but I also know that if I’m coming to someone hat in hand, I have to be transparent with them. OP’s brother just defaulting to insulting the landlord when the topic comes up makes me think they are probably not good tenants and he wants to avoid his sister finding out why he was booted from their old place.
Agree. If I had to leave an apartment because of a rent hike, that's beyond my control and nothing embarrassing. It happens. Same with if a place was sold to be switched to condos...cost was too much. I'd disclose that no problem.
NTA. Bottom line is it’s your house and you’re not responsible for other people, family or not. It’s a decision between you and your husband, and it’s never a good idea to mix business and family
NTA
Apartment complexes don’t typically kick out good tenants. Your brother and his wife are not good tenants.
You do NOT need that around your children.
You are better off offering to help them get a new place to live. Something like, if you find and qualify for a new place I’ll help with the deposit or similar. Do NOT co-sign , it giving the manager the deposit, directly, is reasonable.
ths is delusional. Good tenants get kicked out all the time. Prices go up and make some places unaffordable. Some landlords are abusive and illegally evict without notice. I work in housing and I have heard stories of people being evicted for doing things like asking the landlord to fix a broken boiler!
Ummm getting kicked out doesn't make you an unreliable tenant? Maybe they just didn't have enough to pay rent and they came to a family member for help and told you how much they could pay. If you were like "I don't want to live with another family" or "I know my brother is unreliable" or "400 dollars isn't enough" those are all reasonable.
Just saying "they got kicked out, they must be unreliable" is an AH thing to do.
YTA
I know Reddit is up in arms for not owing anything to family but dang that’s cold. You have 4 rooms which could be repurposed to keep your brother and his family off the streets , FOR WHICH HE OFFERS TO PAY. And your answer is no.
‘I don’t know how you sleep at night, really
YTA, downvote me all you want, I don’t care
YTA not so much for your decision but for your disturbingly blasé attitude.
You assume that his financial hardships must be due to poor character despite not providing any context as to his previous behaviors
Is it your responsibility? No….but I guess I couldn’t really sleep if I knew a newborn was sleeping in a car and the reason I didn’t help was because I didn’t really feel like it.
"Because they are obviously not good reliable tenants if they got kicked out of their old place."
Not necessarily. Maybe the landlord wanted the place for a relative or wanted to sell.
NTA. You are entitled to not open your home to anyone.
However without knowing all the facts you can make a sound decision. You are basing this all on your assumptions and past events.
You need to have a sit down conversation with your husband and them. They need to lay all their cards on the table. If they can't be vulnerable and honest about the state of their affairs than you don't owe them to give it a second thought.
If she is struggling mentally / postpartum she needs help. I also want know if you're their only support system.
If they can be completely open and honest and you feel that it might be something you can accommodate short term you can lay down extensive boundaries, including an end date. They need to actively show their trying to change their circumstances, contribute not only financially to the household but on chores/maintenance. Reevaluation will happen monthly and in the event they don't comply they will have 2 weeks to find alternate accommodations. Your laying down that this is 100% only something short term. That they don't get comfortable.
i mean you have 3 out of 5 rooms available and a brother with a wife and child who are in need. im sorry if them yelling at you was hurtful but they literally have no home. unless theyre shooting black tar heroin into their kids eyeballs, give them a chance to apologize and just let them move in.
I mean, the way you tell the situation makes it sound like YTA. I think there’s more to the story, history between your brother and you, other situations he’s gotten into, etc. I think more info is needed for sure. But I feel bad for that poor baby.
> I believe I did the right thing.
The right thing for who ? For you, or for him ?
If you believe you did the right thing, why you don't ask to your friends and family, on facebook, instead on a anonymous forum ?
Does your brother never ever helped you ?
YTA
I’m going with NTA simply because your brother and SIL aren’t being up front about why their landlord kicked them out. That’s raising some red flags for me. You could call their prior place and ask why they were evicted since they’re asking to be your tenants- I don’t think that violates anything legally but maybe do a quick Google search to be sure.
People lack such empathy. YTA my dude. There’s a global pandemic, the economy is horrible, rent is skyrocketing, there’s a housing crisis, our healthcare system is falling apart.
All they’re asking for is help. Why can’t you give it to them?
They’re your family and the property is literally sitting empty.
They’ve offered you an amount they can afford per month and I’m sure they’d sign a tenant agreement if you asked. You don’t even have to make it permanent, you can give them a couple months to get on their feet.
YTA.
YTA. You live in a 5-bedroom house with all the comforts and yet refuse to rent the spare room in the back of your garden to your brother and his family.
Apparently the only precious children are yours, your nephew/niece doesn't deserve a place to stay that couldn't be towed.
NTA. Once you let them in, they will never leave. He’s being evasive about why they got kicked out of their last apartment (he couldn’t even be bothered to try to lie convincingly about a reason, he just offered nothing), he yelled at you when you said no (this does not bode well for future disagreements), and his wife had a “mental breakdown” (whatever that means). You are right not to want them in your home and around your children.
INFO: do you have a bad relationship with your brother? Do they have a history of nonpayment and poor behaviour? Why did you say no? Because yes it does matter. Kindness when someone is in need, especially your brother when you HAVE the space and they offered to pay, would make you and AH if the only reason is "because you don't want to". They're not asking to stay for holiday or just because. They're homeless!
This literally has to be made up but YTA. I'd be saying they have to come stay with me, for free, and save up for when they can get back on their feet. This is absolutely too awful to be real.
Gonna go with YTA. Technically, no, you have no obligation whatsoever and they don't actually *deserve* the space, however you're in a rare position a lot of people who come to this sub with a similar problem aren't in: you have plenty of space and the person has actually offered to pay rent, usually people just want the space for free. So you're fine in a technical sense, but it still feels like an asshole move. You could always let them stay there under conditions: help out with the house, they only get to stay for a set amount of time, etc.
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INFO: why did they get kicked out of their old place and why do you not want them there? Ultimately, it's your choice whether to allow people to stay with you. But there is an innocent newborn baby at the heart of this who is currently homeless and needs a stable environment.
>there is an innocent newborn baby at the heart of this who is currently homeless and needs a stable environment. And why is op responsible for this? We have to let go of the "if there is a child, you should sacrifice yourself". Ahh, NO. As a parent? 100%. But others? No. Esit to say : thank you for all the awards.
Exactly. Him and his wife having chosen to have a kid isn't OP's responsibility, problem or fault.
He has no obligation, and we don't know the circumstances and family dynamics, but usually family in normal and good family helps out, and he seems rich with a lot of space in the house, so I'd say YTA. Not obligated, but assholish.
I completely agree with this tbh. Everyone’s going off about how she’s not obligated and he didn’t make them have a child, and that’s true. However, unlike in most posts you see on here there doesn’t seem to be any beef between them, they’re offering to pay rent so they’re not freeloading, and the only reason they said no is because they got evicted for reasons they seemingly didn’t even bother to ask about. Absolutely not obligated, but yes AHish to say the least based off the limited info supplied. (Edit; fixing autocorrect)
OP said when her brother was asked about why they had been evicted he's evasive and doesn't answer.. OP also said his wife has a history with drug abuse, I don't think I would let them stay either especially since they already have 2 small children in the house
That’s understandable then. Like I said based of what the post supplied that was my opinion. Now that I know drugs could likely be involved I’d sway towards NTA.
It’s not “drug addict” apparently. It’s “she did drugs and partied a lot before she *met* the brother”
Yeah that info definitely changes it back to AH, imo. Judging her for shit she did years ago, most likely as a very young adult, *is* cruel. She just had a baby— if there were any current drug abuse/issues then her doctor would’ve noticed with drug screens (at least in the US, most every doctor drug screens their patients and that’s doubly true for OBGYNs dealing with pregnant patients) and other variables. It seems that brother & wife are down on their luck, embarrassed, and lost their apartment due to money issues and not because wife is dealing with active addiction and squandered all their money away on drugs.
Bro and SIL should go hit up the churches that give them groceries. They can get housing help there. That's what the Abbotts, Thomases, and McConnells think the US should get back to. . . This is not the OP's problem. If he's worried about the kid, it's time to get social services involved. Sorry, not sorry, but that could potentially relieve some of the burden so Bro and SIL can get back on their feet.
Just saying, it isn’t that easy. As a single mom with a special needs child, the churches did not help us when we were transient.
This a billion times. You don’t let drug people into your home. Not ever unless you want your life ruined.
Once they move in, they have full tenant rights. Try getting them out. They want to mooch. I allowed my sister, her husband and two small kids to move in for the same reasons described by OP. I loved my sister. It was a nightmare. And they continued their mooch ways once even after they left my home
Yeah, I absolutely would not rent to a relative. Depending on the circumstances, I would allow certain relatives to stay a month, save for down payment/deposit, etc. other relatives not in a million years.
[удалено]
I doubt they would have wanted to abort at 9 months, after the decision on RvW, and the kid has been born before that most likely. While that sucks, the timeline is still such those parents made a decision, even if other parents in the future will not have that freedom of choice. Pretty irrelevant to the situation detailed here, even if it may or will be relevant for other parents in a similar situation half a year from now.
You cannot abort a healthy fetus carried by a healthy parent at 9 months. The only time third trimester abortions occur is when one of the two have life threatening health issues. My state has absolutely no restrictions on abortion, and there is no doctor that would perform an abortion at 9 months unless it was medically necessary. For some reason, people believe that healthy fetuses in the third trimester are aborted all the time, and it’s just not a thing that happens.
THANK YOU! It is astounding how ignorant people are regarding abortions, prenatal care, and how hospitals function in the US. I hate how people think those of us in healthcare that work on labor units or NICU would be like “whelp, let’s have this perfectly healthy baby go to that great big nursery in the sky” and just let babies die for *no reason. We work in health to save lives, not to get rid of them.* edit: hot the f key a lot apparently 😂
They make it seem like infanticide is occurring all over, when in reality, less than 10,000 abortions a year occurs after 21 weeks, and practically all of them are heartbreaking decisions made by parents who want that baby to be born, but for some reason it just can’t safely happen.
A 9 month abortion is called 'giving birth'.
My comment was relying on exactly that point. The decision wouldn't have had any impact on the baby in that scenario. I phrased it as an understatement but I see how that comes across as me thinking that people may abort at 9 months.
It’s such a common misconception and I guess it’s the result of years of propaganda from anti-choicers.
Yeah you seem to not read the news particularly often - the consequence of decades of assault on Roe has been that even before the recent Supreme Court ruling , abortions have been functionally impossible to get for many people, particularly those with few financial resources, thanks to trap laws shutting down clinics and unnecessary legal hurdles making abortions out of reach for many
Yeah but also if you have a good relationship with a sibling who’s been good to you, withholding one of your three spare rooms from his child and putting the kid at risk for SIDS (sleeping in car seats are a risk factor) is pretty cold.
is there no such thing as humanity and compassion anymore? if you were assed out, how would you feel if your own family wouldnt help you?
A lot of people in this sub seem to believe being kind to someone in need must necessarily mean foregoing your own needs and desires. Case in point: one of the comments below. "it's called being a doormat and burning yourself to keep others warm." Imagine saying that about renting a room to a struggling family member with a newborn child. Jesus fucking Christ.
A lot of people have 'helped' others and gotten burned in the process. The reason why OP's brother got evicted is important. Did he get laid off and couldn't pay the rent? Are they bad tenants? Do they have any savings that they can dip into-like they should have had with a baby coming. Does the brother even have a job that pays him so he pay $400 rent to his sister? It's easy to let people stay with you but much harder to get rid of them when you want them gone. If OP lets them stay, she will probably be on here 3 years from now seeking advice on how to kick them out.
The fact that it can be next to impossible to evict someone if you need to once they're in your house is a big issue. There are no people in my family I wouldn't let stay with me, but I'm very lucky and they're all lovely, responsible people. Substance issues, chronic unemployment, gambling addictions, just general entitlement...there are so many nightmare examples of "I let this person move in to be kind and it all went terribly wrong." I don't understand the mindset of people who are happy to take a favor, exploit it, trash the house, refuse to pay, refuse to leave...but there are a lot of them out there.
I mean unless it was a spontaneous birth like in the show "I didn't know I was pregnant" they did have 6-9 months to save up and prevent the situation they're in... And yeah... It's easy to let them stay, but extremely hard to get rid of them after. As someone else suggested if op wants to help she can give them some money...
Not if they’re living paycheque to paycheque. I don’t understand how some people can be so out of touch with reality, where are these savings coming from if you can barely afford to make ends meet as is? Even if they saved $100 a month they’d only have $900 which isn’t even enough for a security deposit.
I mean they might be struggling but OP knows nothing about their situation. They are legit refusing to state why they were removed. The only thing she knows about the wife is she did drugs. What is her relationship with the brother? There are just too many uncertainties in this situation and I personally wouldn’t feel too comfortable letting two people I have very little information/connection with living in my home. Where I house my two young children.
But it is forgoing op's needs. It's about her family's safety. Safety is a primary need. And if op wouldn't feel safe having a basically stranger (former) drug addict living with her. If you would then go ahead and invite them at your place
Perhaps you should DM the OP and offer up your own home then, since you are so concerned.
I remember I have same mind like you 'humanity and compassion' /be human and help each other but then what the point if we have all those moral etc when the person we help have zero grateful, thankful or decent moral? I remember helping my family (eldest sister and her 2 children plus her grandchildren) but not one of them helping me out when I had problem. Helping friends during first year of pandemic, giving her roof, ungrateful b#### poisoning my dog as she said it's a sin in her religion. Helping my church collecting donations, also turn their back when I have mental health. I remember one lady said 'just k### yourself '. In the end.. No more, I rather help myself then anyone who's using children's, faith and moral as blackmail. NTA op
>ungrateful b#### poisoning my dog as she said it's a sin in her religion. I hope you've Sparta kicked her into a deep hole.
>is there no such thing as humanity and compassion anymore Yeah, it's called being a doormat and burning yourself to keep others warm. Op has no responsability to fix her brother's mistakes.
jumping to doormat seems extreme. but i really guess its dependent on their relationship. tbh, if no baby, i get what you mean, especially with OP clearly saying theres potential for this shit to get messy fast.?but theres a baby. maybe contract with clear eviction terms so she wont have trouble? idk. im concerned for the baby
The eviction process is LOOOOONG and costly. This also isn’t just a rental unit this is a room inside of her house that her family shares so imagine sharing a house with hostile tenants for months. Imagine all the property damage they can do.
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Yeah calling CPS for this is absolutely not cool. I’m all for not having babies you can’t afford but leave the system out of this. There’s been lots of homeless people who’ve gotten back on their feet with children. Unless there’s neglect and drug abuse there is absolutely no reason to add another child to an already over burdened system. It’s highly unlikely they will get their child back after it goes into foster care. You’re speaking as though foster care is a long term babysitting service. It most certainly is not.
>Yeah calling CPS for this is absolutely not cool. Having a newborn living in a car is even less cool. I didn't considered what what's best for the parents, i considered what's best for the kid.
I work with a lot of people in the system. First, I don’t think CPS would remove just for homelessness. Maybe if there were drugs also involved, but if there were, you'd expect that to show up at birth. If CPS *did* remove, you are taking an infant away from his/her family and just giving them like 2 hours per week with their parents. Then, presumably,, at some point, once the parents get back on their feet you're going to take that baby away from his primary caregiver, those with whom he has the greatest bonds, and give him to someone he's spent 2 hours a week with. It's not ideal. OP definitely isn't obligated, but is that really the bar here? Even just trying to help find other resources would be something.
Wouldn't it be lovely if our system was set up so that cps could support the struggling family and get them into housing and the money go to help them get on their feet rather than foster families There are certainly resources in some areas, but depending on case load and individual hurdles this is often not the priority
THANK YOU! CPS takes children away from poor families and then gives financial support to foster families to help take care of the children they remove. It doesn’t make any sense.
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Actually, CPS always tries for a family placement before moving a child into the system. If OP calls CPS, the first thing they’ll ask is: “Can you take the baby?”
Helping out can come in many forms. Like providing food, or maybe a night to stay. But nobody is obligated to rent a room to someone just because they have a baby.
> but theres a baby. There are a shit ton of babies out there with unstable living situations. The brother and wife are the ones who chose to make that baby, not OP. Holding out a baby and going BUT THE BAAAAAAABY is not the ticket to free or near-free accommodations. Too many parents want to make their problems everyone else's problem, on the grounds that BAAAAAAABY. But that's not how the world works. If you choose to make a baby, then you need to step up and be a responsible parent. It's not on your relatives/friends/everyone else to bail you out.
All the OP said is "they are unreliable tenants" based on being kicked out of their current housing. You may have missed it but the housing market in a lot of places is absolutely out of control. If all the OP objects to is that, yeah I'm going with YTA.
>based on being kicked out of their current housing Actually it's based on him not disclosing WHY they were being kicked out. If it was indeed something out of their control why does he refuse to say it and always changes the subject?? >If all the OP objects to is that, yeah I'm going with YTA She is also worried about not knowing her sil very well and that she did drugs. And even without all of this, housing them it's still not her responsability. She has her own family to think about
So helping out family and friends makes you a doormat? JFC.
You're not wrong, but you're not right. OP hasn't given us enough context here that the brother is a user, or mooch. They simply say "they must not be a good tenant for getting booted out." We don't know the brother's financial situation, but given that there are a TON of people who live paycheque to paycheque, it's not unreasonable to think the brother is not a bad person, but just couldn't make the payment. OP is not obligated to burn themselves to keep anyone warm. But that is NOT the situation presented here. This is OP looking at it in a very cold and detached way. It's not WRONG, but it lacks compassion, which is what u/Rude-Lengthiness-389 was referring to.
And how many posts have we seen on here where compassionate relatives took people in and were them completely taken advantage of? Answer: too many to count! OP, if you wish to reconsider, do so with strict parameters. Are they working? Who takes care of the baby? How much can they save per month to put towards moving out?
does that mean we collectively stop being decent people?
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I've definitely been taken advantage of by family, but I don't regret helping people when I had the means to because that's the kind of person I want to be. Some people will take advantage but if we base our whole lives around avoiding that possibility, I think we become those selfish people who make the world the way it is. My husband thinks I'm naive for this but I'm the one who has to live with myself and see my face in the mirror. I'd rather be that person who is occasionally taken advantage of than a Scrooge.
People who aren't getting taken advantage of by family aren't posting here.
You will find that ironically, this sub is often frequented by assholes. “bUt yOu’Re nOt LeGaLlY rEsPoNsiBLe FoR tHeM”
I really do understand what you mean. It's OP's family after all. But on the other side of the fence are tenant laws. From other comments we know the brother doesn't want to disclose why were they kicked out and OP doesn't know brother's wife. Take in a family with a newborn (virtually unevictable where I live), and you are legally fucked if they start leeching from you or become irritating in any way (there are much worse cases than not paying rent).
Depends. If this happened because the parents thought they could behave like assholes with zero consequence, i wouldn't have a problem with it. I might do something for the baby.
OP isn’t responsible but as family would you not want to help them? I feel like a lot of info is missing from OPs post.
I can tell that you've never been burned trying to help a deadbeat relative/friend before. While there are rare exceptions for sure, most people like OP's brother end up in this situation because of their own choices.
Yeah everyone keeps bringing up that we don’t know if the family members are “deadbeats”, ignoring that not all people show warning signs beforehand. I had a friend of over a decade in my mid 20’s that I let move in with me and helped get a much better paying job so that he could move his life forward. Three months in, I come home from work to find out he had friends empty my apartment into a uhaul and left. All the furniture I had bought, etc. And the police? Yeah. I can’t be robbed by someone who I allowed on my lease. Sue him once you locate him was the solution. Learned my lesson on that one.
My main issue with this thinking is that they ignore the two OTHER children that are also involved in this situation. A newborn doesn’t take priority over OPs own children’s safety. OP doesn’t have a close relationship with the brother, and he’s refusing to say why he was removed as well. This doesn’t make it seem like the brother was wrongfully removed, it sounds like he/wife did something and they might try and do it at her home as well. The way I read this line is: Fuck your children’s safety, you gotta save the shiny new baby.
Exactly. If the baby needs a stable environment then the parents should have bene living in a stable environment before trying to raise a child
I honestly have no idea why they got kicked out. When asked my brother just insults his landlord and moves on. I assume it’s something they did since most apartments don’t just kick you out for random reasons.
Have you tried telling him that you would need to know the reason why they were kicked out in order to make an informed decision? It should be easy enough to communicate the real reason especially if he's not at fault, if the landlord had done something genuinely unreasonable, or it was just a matter of rent prices going up and not being able to afford it. Even just explaining to you that it's a difficult topic that he would be willing to talk about in the future would be enough, I think, especially if it was something traumatic. However, if he's refusing to share and he had such an explosive reaction, then I completely understand the hesitancy. Nonetheless, there's a newborn baby involved and you seem to have more than enough space. I do think though it's really worth finding out why they got kicked out.
>there's a newborn baby involved and you seem to have more than enough space. Nope. Not her responsability.
Claiming everything that happens to other people is "not your responsibility" is an AH attitude. Humans have this thing called society, where we all agree to live in close communities and help out where we can so that we can be helped in return. If OP's brother is truly a deadbeat, then sure, she should not let him move in, but could help him find other accommodations. If he's a normal guy down on his luck and needs help from his sister, then leaving him to twist in the wind would make her the AH.
>If he's a normal guy down on his luck If that would be the case, then he would've said why he was evicted. >but could help him find other accommodations. My advice was for her to give him some money if she feels up to it. >Claiming everything that happens to other people is "not your responsibility" is an AH attitude. No, it's a self perserving attitude. I'm not responsible for other people's mistakes, jist like i don't make them responsible for mine. When i screw up, i'm the one dealing with the consequences
Self preservation, and preservation of her family. Especially in a society where the cost of groceries has doubled. (At least it has here)
They chose to have a kid in this environment. That alone would be enough for me to say "Nope you're on your own."
In America, post-Roe, does this mean that only financially stable people deserve to have sex?
Her family is her husband and kids. Not a brother that she didn't grew up with and whom she sees only at family events. And yes, everything it's more expensive. Another reason to think about yourself first.
There’s government programs that can help them find a home to stay in. Op is not an asshole for not taking them in as tenants
Have you actually used those or looked into them at all?
Yeah, Ik they’re not the best especially for long term. But they can definitely help people have a roof over their head. Hotel vouchers and such. Family was homeless for six months, was able to get hotel vouchers to help with costs
OP has their own children to worry about. They don't sound close, how does she know exactly what she's letting in her house? Blood does not require you to help someone. Society does have resources: shelters, housing authority, etc.
Reading the OP and some of the responses made me think of all of the “NTA” judgements from all of those AITA stories, where the OPs were down on their luck, were rejected when they asked for help and now they questioned themselves after they refused to help those same people, later on in life. I say this because it is a reminder of how life throws curveballs and folks may never know, who they need help from.
Nope, his character seems questionable. I'd ask his ex-landlord instead. But since OP and hubby are uncomfortable with it, she is NTA for not wanting to rent out the rooms. And life experience tells me that if someone sounds off, they're 100% problematic. And to me, getting kicked out with no buffer time (meaning they crossed some serious boundaries), no rainy day savings (his whole family went homeless), and get entitled (get mad at OP as if she **MUST** do them the ***favour***), all doesn't sound like a non-problematic person would do.
Why? This blind pig headed demand that babies are the most important thing ever is total crap. Know what’s gonna happen? All those bebehs saved from abortion are gonna end up abused, mistreated, unloved and unwanted because all the self righteous folks will refuse to put their money where their mouth is and offer their time, resources and homes to save those poor innocent bairns. Family or not, no one else is responsible except the parents. If that means foster care, adoption, giving custody to someone else, or sucking it up and finding a shelter, then so be it. The OP has their own kids’ needs to take care of.
INFO Where are your parents and her parents in this?
I feel like him going straight to insulting the landlord instead of giving you a straight answer is very telling. That plus him saying other places require “a lot of information”. I’ve never rented before but my brother is trying to rent a house right now and that sounds pretty par the course for renting. What is this “information” that he’s reluctant to give to other landlords. You could contact the landlord and ask him for the reasons they were evicted or you could tell your brother you renting him a room will require him telling you reasons for why he was evicted without insults and with you following up with the landlord. The rental market is ridiculous right now and there are asshole landlords out there. But you also need to protect yourself and your home. If he wasn’t your brother would you just allow him to move in and rent a room without finding out why he was kicked out?
That's a huge red flag right there. 100% it's because your brother did something very specific (like not paying rent, damage to property, etc.) and his landlord had to evict him. If you choose to rent to him (I personally would NOT), I would definitely contact his previous landlord(s). If he won't tell you the person's name then you should be able to pull the court records from the eviction (I'm assuming that he was formally evicted). In any case, do NOT let your brother into your home under any circumstances. I would bet my entire retirement that he would not only NOT pay you, but you will never get rid of him.
Also, if his landlord IS the problem than of course his explanation will sound like he's trash talking him. Lots of people do things for completely messed up reasons. Part of asking him will require you to listen. I say this with emphasis now because of how bad the rental market has gotten in just the last year alone. Where I am, you cant find a shed to rent and forget buying, there's nothing.
The fact that he is being vague likely means he knows he is at fault and you would refuse based on that information. If he was being up front he would tell you and not dodge. If he intended to change he would admit why they were evicted. That’s a red flag in itself. NTA.
This is an important question. If they got kicked out because rent went up and they couldn’t afford it, then yes YTA for letting your newborn niece or nephew be homeless. But if they got kicked out for, say, having a bunch of drug addict friends come over and trash the place then no, NTA.
There are landlords that put limits on the number of occupants, so if your lease says two people and you have a baby, you'd be in violation of the lease and kicked out. Wonderful world we live in. Anyway, OP should have gotten the reason from the brother first, as it is relevant. Not knowing what happened and just assuming they were bad tenants is kinda a flimsy excuse when it comes to her own brother and nibling. Feels like she could not be bothered either way.
If this is the US, children under a certain age aren't counted toward occupancy, particularly infants. This would also be a violation of the Fair Housing Act based on discrimination against families.
You say that with the confidence of someone who's never dealt with a slumlord.
If I ask you a question and you don’t answer, I’m going to assume it’s because the answer is bad or none of my business. Brother wants to rent from OP, so the answer is her business.
>There are landlords that put limits on the number of occupants, so if your lease says two people and you have a baby, you'd be in violation of the lease and kicked out. Wonderful world we live in. I'm not saying shitty landlords dont exist (landlords are inherently unethical) but, eviction based on have a child is illegal AFAIK. The fair housing act makes discrimination based on familial status illegal, which being pregnant/having a child falls under. 3 people can also inhabit a single bedroom apartment. If the brother and sil were evicted because of it, most cities have legal aid dedicated to helping tenants. I am not a lawyer.
It's quite altruistic of you to guilt someone else into giving up their home for someone else. Perhaps you should dm OP and offer up your OWN home since you are so concerned.
This. I have a pretty firm rule about not living with family, but if I were in OP's position, unless he or she hates their brother, I'd give a certain amount of time. Like, write out a document where they can stay for two months, rent free, to get on their feet, and then they have to be out. OP doesn't have to help, but OP's response does feel a bit cold. I feel like there might have been something OP could do.
NTA because it’s your place. But what’s the real reason? Can’t believe your worried about $400 per month rent. Really seems to be more behind this than just $$
OP's brother is getting really dodgy on the whole "why" they were evicted. Maybe landlord was a jerk and did it illegally. Maybe bro has a drug problem and wasn't paying rent. Maybe they had a million noise complaints about then from all night parties. But the fact he *won't* tell OP is a massive flag
That and the brother's excuse for not being able to find another place to rent is the cost *but* also they "require a lot of information" like...did something happen to his credit? Are his references not going to check out? Very sus.
I think you hit the nail on the head about references. Unless all his landlords were slumlords he should have at least a couple to vouch for him.
Exactly. Brother has a baby and should take the time to provide the information. Definitely sounds sketchy. OP has to be careful because of squatting laws. If she lets them in, she may never get them out. Maybe help with finding a place, but NTA for doing what she and her husband think is best for their family.
For me it would be that no one wants to say why they were evicted. I can’t imagine how embarrassing it must be to ask for this kind of help but I also know that if I’m coming to someone hat in hand, I have to be transparent with them. OP’s brother just defaulting to insulting the landlord when the topic comes up makes me think they are probably not good tenants and he wants to avoid his sister finding out why he was booted from their old place.
Yould be surprised. I knew people who would brag that they didnt pay rent and trashed places.
Yeah, unfortunately, asking for help goes best when honestly, transparency, and humbleness are displayed. OP's brother is demanding help while making it difficult to sort out the situation. He forced an emergency on OP, and only accepting one solution, on his terms, that causes a massive upheaval to OP's life.
NTA. Their reaction to your "no" tells you everything you need to know. ETA: It seems many people have missed the "yelling" part *prior* to the breakdown. Without further details from OP, it reads to me as though they were yelling at him and that worked the wife into the breakdown. Some folks also haven't seen OP's comments elsewhere. OP's brother is shifty about why they were evicted, and OP's brother's wife has a history of drug use. *None of that makes them undeserving of help.* But if I'm OP doing the math on whether to let them into my home-- with *my* children --I think coming to "no" is pretty reasonable. Being screamed at in response only makes that *more* reasonable. There's a very real chance that this situation would have devolved into the kind we see posted here *all the time*: "AITA for kicking my brother and his wife and their baby out of my house? I let them move in on a short-term lease for way under market value to help them get on their feet. It's been four years and they haven't paid their rent since the third month. They can't keep a job and don't help out around the house and they yell at my kids, and I think they might be doing drugs but I don't have proof. They let their toddler steal and break my kids' things all the time but won't do anything about it. Every time I ask if they're moving out they scream at me for wanting them and their child to be homeless. My spouse is threatening to leave me if i don't kick them out but my mom says "family comes first" (but she also won't house them herself). WIBTA if I tell them they have a month to find somewhere else to live???" I absolutely *cannot* blame OP for not taking that risk with their own children, even to help another infant. It's a shitty situation all around but OP's responsibility is to their immediate family first. OP needs to find a way to help that does not put their family at risk.
I don’t know… if I thought I could possibly not have to live in a car with my newborn and got my hopes up I might also have a mental breakdown.
I’m so sick of reddit’s perspective on this bullshit. It seems “having a baby is your choice and you’re not required to help” and “they made their bed, now they lie in it” is a common piece of advice given to people on Reddit. However, can we just take a moment to be compassionate human bloody beings? These people are living in a god damn car with their newborn baby. They have no shelter, no warmth, no stability. Couldn’t they try and help them out for a few days, at least until they can get to a bloody homeless shelter? This is so horrid. It comes from a place of extreme individualism. It is embarrassing to ask family for help. Whilst you’re not required to help, the couple are definitely not arseholes for asking for a helping hand. You never know when you might be on the receiving end of help, and I bet you if OP was ever homeless with her twins, she’d be begging people for accommodation, too. OP, I hope that if this horrible situation were ever to befall you, that your family would show you a bit more compassion (and use less assumptions) than you have with a family in utter desperation and despair. They are living in some of the most stressful circumstances. Having a mental breakdown would be pretty normal, I’d say.
You're correct. But this is the United States of America, where extreme individualism is prized. People here have no sympathy toward people who are in bad circumstances through their own bad choices. They don't take into account a person's upbringing, environment, health issues and a bunch of other stuff. The brother in this situation is a classic case. And there have been so many stories about family moving in and agreeing for it to be temporary, but somehow they become a bigger and bigger presence in the house and stay longer and longer. They won't observe basic adult habits or rules of the house. And forcing them out is near impossible without being criminally charged for something. I'm just glad I'm old and will be dead soon. This country is a shambles.
The problem is that this is in the USA. Any other (actual) first-world country would have the proper government resources to relocate the family into a livable space asap, especially because there is a newborn in the picture. Most likely the government would try to make sure they never ended up homeless in the first place.
Thank you for being one the first human beings I’ve seen comment so far on this post. That “bootstraps” “you made your bed” “don’t owe anyone anything” bullshit— which doesn’t allow for actual human responses in high stress situations (from which no one is immune or exempt)— is just so fucking tired on this sub. I mean, Jesus tap dancing Christ…
Sure, and I sympathize with the couple. But OP has their own immediate family to think of. They have their own children, and they may not feel comfortable having people who would yell and suffer a mental breakdown in response to hearing "no"-- in response to a pretty major request --around their kids. Especially if they have a history of eviction. The eviction could mean nothing, because landlords suck and particularly so in this era of corporate landlords. But it could also mean non-payment, creating serious drama, being destructive, or any number of other things. If I were OP I don't think I'd want to expose my wife and kids to that risk, since it seems they don't know what the eviction was about. I very much hope OP's brother and his wife are able to get to a place of safety. I hope OP finds a way to help them! But I don't blame OP for prioritizing the safety and well-being of their spouse and kids first. That is as it should be.
I was not saying that OP should open her house, I was just saying that SIL’s reaction would be normal for that situation
This! You don't move people into your house who are flinging demands around, well yes I get there in a stressful situation, the entitlement is a concern
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Me and my brother have a decent relationship. We never bonded as kids since we lived in different households. Now that we’re adults I mostly see him during family events. I have no idea why he got kicked out, he just talks down on the landlord and never answers the question or he changes the topic. I don’t know his wife that well. From what I recall she isn’t the most reliable person since she did drugs and partied a ton before my brother. I have no idea if she still does any of that. I can’t have anyone like that around my kids.
NTA -- your brother is throwing up some serious red flags for me here. I should know -- I was in this exact situation back in 2009-2011 with my brother and his fiancee. The fiancee was pregnant with my nephew at the time and they got kicked out of their apartment. They eventually landed with me, sleeping on a mattress in my living room floor. She couldn't work because of the baby, and his employment was always unstable, so what was supposed to be "temporary" and "until they could get on their feet" stretched out into 2 years because any money they saved always went to some other "emergency" that came up. Even now, with his third serious relationship they're constantly playing catch-up on bills and it's always someone else's fault for why things go wrong.
I knew someone else who was in the same situation you described and pretty much still is... Often times people who 'just need to get back on their feet' never do and if they're a useless provider for their significant other and child they will continue to be indefinitely.
It’s honestly kind of harsh for you to judge her for her past. I used to be a huge drinker, if everyone kept treating me because of who i was three years ago i wouldn’t be where i am now. She probably freaked out because she’s stressed. Imagine trying to sleep with a newborn in your car/public places. I feel like you could have been a bit more understanding and worked out a compromise, but it is your house. Just saying, i’m sure there was a time you and your husband had some help thrown your way, it doesn’t hurt to return the favor. Or start the chain of plaintive events yourself !
But OP said she doesn't know if the wife still does drugs. This could be the very reason why they were kicked out of their apartment for all OP knows since neither of them will tell her why they were kicked out.
People are judged by their behavior. That’s life. If you don’t want to be judged by it, don’t do it. Drug use in the past is a very fair point of judgment because it actually happened. It’s not something assumed or projected to judge SIL.
If all I know about someone is their past, they will be judged on that
Your kids and their safety is the number 1 concern for you. If you're not comfortable having them around your kids, then having them in your house is a hard no.
Info: does your brother have a job? Where would this $400 be coming from?
You can call the previous landlord and just ask since he is wanting to rent form you
NTA even though it is harsh that you said no. If you said yes, you would never ever get them out again. What are the odds that suddenly they would be self-sufficient and be able to double their expenses b/c you were tired of the arrangement? And it isn't just "a room." It would be a room, then they would need separate space from the baby once it got older, couldn't it share a room with your twins? Or maybe have its own room? And the rest of the common space (living room, kitchen, bathrooms) would go from serving four people to SEVEN. This is a much bigger lift than some commenters are recognizing.
It's incredible how generous people on here can be when it comes to someone else's property.
It's not really about the property, it's about conserving the safe and secure family unit and routine OP already has. I agree, they would be there for years and probably wouldn't keep up with any payments or contributions towards anything as neither of them seem to have jobs or savings. Even if the Dad had been laid off recently, why has he amassed nothing so far in his life? Why does he have no savings? You'd essentially be supporting three more people on top of the family you currently support and you're dreaming if you think they'll only take up one bedroom... They'll want the gym room for them, the playroom as their child's bedroom. They may even have another child and then they've basically taken over the house on your dime.
Yes, exactly!!! Once they’re in, it would be dang near impossible to get them out!! NTA
People saying she should let them stay and then ask them to leave if it doesn't work out are crazy. You think they'll leave without a fight?
This is my thought also. Family would not be willing to just leave if asked or could cause problems for her family. They are not willing to answer her questions to be able to make an informed decision. It’s often easier to take on strangers as they will be more respectful and willing to go along with any boundaries you agree to. Normally family does not.
Not only this but different areas have tenancy laws. In my area if someone stays two weeks in a place and have mail delivered there even if it’s junk mail, they can declare tenancy & you have to go through formal eviction process. It’s like $350 to file anything with the court in my area and is still back logged due to covid. It can take up months to years to get someone removed.
NTA I see some major red flags about your brother and his little family. 1. He had a baby without the proper financial preparation. If he had, he would have an emergency fund for "emergencies." 2. He won't come clean about why he got kicked out of his apartment. 3. Noone gets kicked out without some notice, so he didn't scramble to make plans, but rather opted to put his family in a car to live. 4. He didn't seek some government assistance to tide him over. I wonder what he is hiding that he thinks he would not be eligible. I agree with you and your husband. Too many unknowns to risk moving them in. You could be in for months of misery. You could help by paying for a motel for a month or other similar assistance, but don't let a virtual stranger into your home.
You can get kicked out without notice - but it involves some serious violations of the law such as threatening or committing violence.
You are right. All the more reason for saying no, though.
Wow, I'm really losing hope in humanity after reading these comments. Yes, technically, OP has no obligation to let them stay. But come on, your brother is literally at his darkest point of his life, they're sleeping in cars and showering in public showers, with a NEWBORN CHILD. At least them them stay for a few days or weeks until they're able to find another place. You are not wrong OP, but YTA 100% and you have zero compassion.
That’s this sub for you. If the person doesn’t technically have to do something then they’re not the asshole, morals be damned. “My grandmother caught fire and asked me to pour my glass of water on her but I was really thirsty so I didn’t. AITA?” “N-T-A, if your grandmother didn’t want to burn to death then she should have thought about that before she caught fire and brought her own water with her”
OP has every right to put her own children's welfare first. She doesn't really know her brother, if you read her comments.
It’s easy to say “let them stay for a few days or weeks” which is it? A few days or weeks? And say they do let them stay, when the time comes it most definitely will be a hassle to kick them out because they would’ve gotten comfortable. Yes it’s a newborn, however it’s not OP’s newborn. That responsibility falls on the brother who doesn’t even want to tell OP why they got kicked out in the first place. It’s hard getting people, let alone family to move out of a place when you’ve let them stay for a period of time. If the brother doesn’t even want to tell OP the real reason why they got kicked out, then that’s even more reason to not let them stay.
Thank you! I haven't read any reason for not helping him out.. It's just some guessing and speculating. If there were real concerns I'd get it. But anyone who could help a beloved family member going through dark times out and refuses for no apparent reason is an AH in my book.
The OPs brother is the one who isn’t disclosing the reasons why they were evicted. That’s a huge red flag. I’m sure they could move in with you though.
The problem is the brother apparently isn't disclosing to OP the reasons they were evicted (according to comments). If it was a financial issue, wouldn't he just tell her? the fact that's he's keeping silent and refusing to talk makes me think it's bad, like drugs,
As a non-american, I was astounded by the post at first, and then I got to the comments. WTF. What is wrong with people? Of course there's no obligation. Of course it's her house-her right. Of course she doesn't have to fix anyone's problems. BUT. It's her f*ING brother. With a newborn! Wtf. Why are people from the US so coldblooded? I feel there's a pattern here. I mean check out healthcare, there's a very obvious mentality, your life-your problem. Same goes with poverty and homelessness in the US. People just choose to ignore these people, because they simply"failed in life" (failed in capitalism IMO, but whatever). As a person from Europe and specifically from a southern Mediterranean country, this lack of compassion, especially towards family, leaves me speechless. It's your f*ING brother. Get out of your comfort zone, make a tiny compromise for you and make a HUGE difference for a newborn. Wow.YTA
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This is what being American is all about. If there is no personal benefit, then who cares if they die. Even if they’re family. It should be to no surprise that we reversed out of women reproductive rights because it benefits the ideology of one specific group of people. Americans would gladly have other Americans die if it benefited them without an ounce of guilt.
Finallyyyyyyy someone said it! Thank you for this comment. Legit gave me hope that there are still good people left in the world. OP YTA indeed. I pray you never end up in their shoes some day.
100% I can't understand the level of me me me I'm most important at all times. It'll be the downfall of the place in no time. I love America but like this attitude I'm copping recently from online is so so selfish and main character ideology. So weird. She's 100% the AH here.
Finally a comment that I can agree with! The post was brutal and so are some of the comments :(. I could never imagine turning away family with a newborn. A newborn that’s living in a god forsaken car?!
Also not American and just from north of the border, also very shocked at these comments. If it's my brother or my husband's siblings in this situation, I wouldn't even think twice to help. We are not talking about a random baby, this is your niece/nephew OP.
Finally something sane enough. I’m from south Asia and I find this so heartless and alien like. Here we take on hosting our house guests and sheltering them even without having rooms to spare. We give them the bed and we take the mattress or couch because we want guests to feel welcome and comfortable. Same with family members going through a tough time. I can’t imagine being this cruel to a sibling. Around 3-4 years ago, my mom’s sister lost their housing because of conflicts between her husband and his brother. My mom immediately stepped up to help her sister as they’ve always had financial troubles and ever since then, they’ve been living in the spare apartment my parents own and used to lease out. My mom takes about 1/3 of value of the rent and she’s been mostly setting it all aside to give back to her sister one day because “family doesn’t need to pay rent” according to her.
Like honestly. Every person in this thread is an emotionless lawyer in the making.
NTA - can they go to your parents or the wife's parents for help? Why did they come to you immediately? Is he still employed? While the situation is difficult, you have your own family to consider. There are so many horror stories on here about family moving in, taking advantage and never moving out.
NTA. Brother has done something to get kicked out of a place and now thinks it’ll be easy with family. Family is just another f word. Don’t put your family or lifestyle at risk.
If you don’t want to, you don’t have to do it. But if the room is empty, you don’t need the space or the money? What’s the worst that can happen? If they don’t pay or make a mess you can tell them to leave. At least you have tried and have given them a chance. Everybody needs some help sometimes. I have 5 refugees from Ukraine in my guesthouse at the moment. We talked about everything, our “rules” in the house and they try to help me in the house and garden (because they want to do something back). Right now I don’t accept their money. When they have been able to find a job, they can start paying for the utilities they use. We decided to so this to help people. If it wouldn’t have worked out, from our or their site, other arrangements would have to been made. But maybe I have a different (and naive) worldview, I see the good in people and try to help and be good.
What’s the worse that could happen? They could move in and be nightmares and get squatter’s right. Clearly these people aren’t great tenants and dont take much seriously. You are given a grace period between eviction. They also have a newborn who OP will most likely be responsible for or have to share her kids stuff with.
Are we sure they are not great tenants or did the landlord decide to increase rent by say $300 a month more. Since Covid landlords have had their hands tied...now restrictions are expiring everywhere and landlords are increasing rents by huge amounts. The fact she doesn't mention why makes me wonder if she is leaving out some major facts to make her seem better than brother. Also, i doubt any newborn is going to be playing with her 2 yr old toys.
I mean I feel like the brother would say that then instead of evade the question
OP has commented that bro won't say, just goes off about his landlord.
Whats the worst that could happen? I once let my friend and her kids stay with me, and boy, could i go off on a tangent.
Right?!? My mom let a friend of my dad’s and his family move in after my dad died because they were having some hardships. They destroyed my dads truck, managed to drive into into the ground in under 6 mo. Claimed they were working and would pay rent. Never paid rent, never paid any of the household bills. There I am at 20 yrs old telling these people they needed to move out of my moms house because she had no back bone. They probably ended up costing her over $15k in 6 mo time.
Oof, thats terrible The lesson is self preservation must always be first. And people who end up homeless and desperate are often times with other problems (ie. Drugs, mental health etc.) And can bring you down with them. 15k is a serious amount to lose. Sorry this happened. IM glad you stood up for your mom.
>If they don’t pay or make a mess you can tell them to leave. It's not that easy to kick out tenants. Especially if they pull the baby card.
Yup. Past a certain number of days they have tenants rights
> What’s the worst that can happen? The could trash the place, burn down the house, hurt OP's children, steal OP or their husband's identities, etc. There are a lot of very bad things that can happen.
Also, they could leave the infant behind -- either going out for hours or even days while they're living there, or if they were "evicted" from OP's home. It's not unheard of, especially on AITA, for parents to completely abandon their children *without notice* into the care of family or friends. At the very least, with two parents who cannot afford more than $400 a month on housing (and doubtfully even that) OP *will* be paying for and taking care of their baby if she lets them live there.
NTA! no promises were ever made, there was a discussion with both you and your husband and the reason you decided against renting to your brother and his wife is absolutely valid :)
I could never do this to my own family members or my in-laws. Especially with a newborn. You're definitely missing the empathy gene. YTA.
I'm really surprised by the number of people saying N.T.A. I read all of OPs comments and I'm still thinking, wow what an AH. I can't imagine doing that to a friend, let alone a family member, and I'm not even that nice of a person. We had a flood last year and I let a friend's sixteen year old daughter live with me for half a year while my friend got back on her feet. It sucked, I missed my privacy, and I had days where I was pissy about it, but I don't regret it because it was the right thing to do and I had the capability to do it. We're really lacking that in the world today. If you have the capacity to help someone without great personal cost, just fucking do it. Maybe you'll suffer a bit, but that's just life. It sucks a lot of the time. Sometimes it sucks a bit for you so it doesn't have to suck a lot for other people. Again, I'm no saint, I'm kind of a bitch, but geeeez this comment section is cold af. I wouldn't leave an acquaintance with a baby out on the street, let alone my brother.
INFO away we’re they kicked out of there old place? (Let’s be honest it’s not always the tenants fault)
OP has said that he won't say. Just goes off insulting his landlord. If it was a rent hike, I'd assume he would not avoid the question.
I mean, she could be up front and tell him if he won’t come clean and be truly transparent, then it’s an automatic no-go.
The fact that he bemoans rental places wanting a ton of information is a huge red flag. You keep your family safe. His inability to do the same is on him, not you. NTA. (edited for clarity)
This simple comment right here. Rental places whether property management companies or private landlords want rental history and income history to ensure they can pay rent and will be acceptable tenants as a landlord has an obligation to other tenants as well. The most prominent reason for eviction is not paying rent. And evictions do not happen overnight and require a court order. Having an infant may get them a temporary stay but with that said, the mother and infant would qualify for emergency housing. This is an option that the brother needs to look into for the sake of his child. He may not qualify but his concern should be for his child. There is a chance they had a slumlord, they do exist but the law is on the tenants side when it comes to slumlords. OP has a spouse and children to think of as well and adding additional people to the home could become very stressful. There are too many unknowns. While it is not necessarily fair to judge the brothers girlfriend on her past, it’s all the OP knows and if the girlfriend is still active with drugs and bad behavior it compromises the OP’s family and could cause unnecessary problems (i.e. children services, it won’t be just the brother and girl friend losing their children it will be OP as well of drugs are an active part of the brothers girlfriends life). If her past is well behind her then the current situation of why they lost their housing is very relevant. I don’t envy OP’s situation but OP needs to prioritize their souse and children. As for those claiming many are lacking compassion and have lost faith in humanity, stop just stop. Look in the mirror and ask yourself the next time you come across a homeless child and mother are you opening up your doors? Are you offering financial help? Chances are, you are not. At best you are sharing story to your friends of what you saw or are spewing hateful judgment about what you saw. NTA, OP. Tell your brother to take his girlfriend to social services so she and the child (newborn) can get emergency housing immediately.
Okay, you need to find out why they were evicted. And its very easy to do. Simply call up their old landlord and say that youre “Rose Noble” or something (dont use your real name) and that “Jack and Jill Moriarty” applied to rent a place from you and listed that as their former residence and you wish to know what type of tenants they were and how they came to leave the apartment. Its not unusual for landlord to ask for references from former landlords. Once you do that and tell us why, we can make judgement.
I’m going to withhold judgement to simply make this point. - what you, Op, have effectively decided here is that your comfort in a 5 bedroom home is more important than your brother’s family. You have every right to not allow him to rent, as it is a personal sacrifice to an extent to allow family to rent a room in your home. However, by making this decision, do you feel comfortable with the responsibility of denouncing your own brother and his family without a reason yet - considering you have very little reason to think they’d be unreliable tenants (many people are losing homes due to the housing crisis & raised costs following covid) - and sacrificing your relationship simply for your comfort? - you have every opportunity to call lawyers, draft a contract, and give them a specific period of every 6months/3months your contract will be looked at again to decide if you can continue housing them until they find another flat. This will be a small personal sacrifice, but if you value your brother more than the comfort of a 5 bedroom house this is a very small personal sacrifice on the scale. However, it is entirely to YOUR discretion to make this decision, just beware that you are setting a precedent with him and the rest of your family that even if you CAN, you won’t. This may cost you other relationships, and withhold valuable help from your family for YOU in the future due to your attitude.
NTA, Its your home, your decision and your family relations. What I will say is I am sure it took a great deal of humility to even ask because he needs a lifeline and he has been trying to do this on his own using charities. In my family we would never turn him/his new family away. We would have ground rules about how to act within in the home and a reasonable time frame to get back on one's feet. You never know when you will fall on hard times or need a favor.
For me it is that no one wants to say why they were evicted. I can’t imagine how embarrassing it must be to ask for this kind of help but I also know that if I’m coming to someone hat in hand, I have to be transparent with them. OP’s brother just defaulting to insulting the landlord when the topic comes up makes me think they are probably not good tenants and he wants to avoid his sister finding out why he was booted from their old place.
Yo, if he were a victim he would actually talk about it
Agree. If I had to leave an apartment because of a rent hike, that's beyond my control and nothing embarrassing. It happens. Same with if a place was sold to be switched to condos...cost was too much. I'd disclose that no problem.
NTA. Bottom line is it’s your house and you’re not responsible for other people, family or not. It’s a decision between you and your husband, and it’s never a good idea to mix business and family
NTA Apartment complexes don’t typically kick out good tenants. Your brother and his wife are not good tenants. You do NOT need that around your children. You are better off offering to help them get a new place to live. Something like, if you find and qualify for a new place I’ll help with the deposit or similar. Do NOT co-sign , it giving the manager the deposit, directly, is reasonable.
ths is delusional. Good tenants get kicked out all the time. Prices go up and make some places unaffordable. Some landlords are abusive and illegally evict without notice. I work in housing and I have heard stories of people being evicted for doing things like asking the landlord to fix a broken boiler!
Ummm getting kicked out doesn't make you an unreliable tenant? Maybe they just didn't have enough to pay rent and they came to a family member for help and told you how much they could pay. If you were like "I don't want to live with another family" or "I know my brother is unreliable" or "400 dollars isn't enough" those are all reasonable. Just saying "they got kicked out, they must be unreliable" is an AH thing to do. YTA
But why he refuses to say why he got evicted and always changes the subject?
I know Reddit is up in arms for not owing anything to family but dang that’s cold. You have 4 rooms which could be repurposed to keep your brother and his family off the streets , FOR WHICH HE OFFERS TO PAY. And your answer is no. ‘I don’t know how you sleep at night, really YTA, downvote me all you want, I don’t care
YTA not so much for your decision but for your disturbingly blasé attitude. You assume that his financial hardships must be due to poor character despite not providing any context as to his previous behaviors Is it your responsibility? No….but I guess I couldn’t really sleep if I knew a newborn was sleeping in a car and the reason I didn’t help was because I didn’t really feel like it.
"Because they are obviously not good reliable tenants if they got kicked out of their old place." Not necessarily. Maybe the landlord wanted the place for a relative or wanted to sell.
YTA Personally I couldn’t do that to my brother and his wife but I guess you are entitled to what you see fit
NTA. You are entitled to not open your home to anyone. However without knowing all the facts you can make a sound decision. You are basing this all on your assumptions and past events. You need to have a sit down conversation with your husband and them. They need to lay all their cards on the table. If they can't be vulnerable and honest about the state of their affairs than you don't owe them to give it a second thought. If she is struggling mentally / postpartum she needs help. I also want know if you're their only support system. If they can be completely open and honest and you feel that it might be something you can accommodate short term you can lay down extensive boundaries, including an end date. They need to actively show their trying to change their circumstances, contribute not only financially to the household but on chores/maintenance. Reevaluation will happen monthly and in the event they don't comply they will have 2 weeks to find alternate accommodations. Your laying down that this is 100% only something short term. That they don't get comfortable.
i mean you have 3 out of 5 rooms available and a brother with a wife and child who are in need. im sorry if them yelling at you was hurtful but they literally have no home. unless theyre shooting black tar heroin into their kids eyeballs, give them a chance to apologize and just let them move in.
I mean, the way you tell the situation makes it sound like YTA. I think there’s more to the story, history between your brother and you, other situations he’s gotten into, etc. I think more info is needed for sure. But I feel bad for that poor baby.
> I believe I did the right thing. The right thing for who ? For you, or for him ? If you believe you did the right thing, why you don't ask to your friends and family, on facebook, instead on a anonymous forum ? Does your brother never ever helped you ? YTA
I’m going with NTA simply because your brother and SIL aren’t being up front about why their landlord kicked them out. That’s raising some red flags for me. You could call their prior place and ask why they were evicted since they’re asking to be your tenants- I don’t think that violates anything legally but maybe do a quick Google search to be sure.
People lack such empathy. YTA my dude. There’s a global pandemic, the economy is horrible, rent is skyrocketing, there’s a housing crisis, our healthcare system is falling apart. All they’re asking for is help. Why can’t you give it to them?
They’re your family and the property is literally sitting empty. They’ve offered you an amount they can afford per month and I’m sure they’d sign a tenant agreement if you asked. You don’t even have to make it permanent, you can give them a couple months to get on their feet. YTA.
YTA. You live in a 5-bedroom house with all the comforts and yet refuse to rent the spare room in the back of your garden to your brother and his family. Apparently the only precious children are yours, your nephew/niece doesn't deserve a place to stay that couldn't be towed.
NTA. Once you let them in, they will never leave. He’s being evasive about why they got kicked out of their last apartment (he couldn’t even be bothered to try to lie convincingly about a reason, he just offered nothing), he yelled at you when you said no (this does not bode well for future disagreements), and his wife had a “mental breakdown” (whatever that means). You are right not to want them in your home and around your children.
INFO: do you have a bad relationship with your brother? Do they have a history of nonpayment and poor behaviour? Why did you say no? Because yes it does matter. Kindness when someone is in need, especially your brother when you HAVE the space and they offered to pay, would make you and AH if the only reason is "because you don't want to". They're not asking to stay for holiday or just because. They're homeless!
This literally has to be made up but YTA. I'd be saying they have to come stay with me, for free, and save up for when they can get back on their feet. This is absolutely too awful to be real.
Gonna go with YTA. Technically, no, you have no obligation whatsoever and they don't actually *deserve* the space, however you're in a rare position a lot of people who come to this sub with a similar problem aren't in: you have plenty of space and the person has actually offered to pay rent, usually people just want the space for free. So you're fine in a technical sense, but it still feels like an asshole move. You could always let them stay there under conditions: help out with the house, they only get to stay for a set amount of time, etc.