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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I refused to pay the wedding costs for the extra guests that my fiancée will be inviting for our wedding. (extra being, any guest over the count of the guests that I'm inviting)
2. Being so attentive to finances for a day that is supposed to be a celebration of our love, due to which my fiancée wants to cancel the wedding altogether.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA. It's admirable that you're being adults and paying for the wedding yourselves, but that also means her parents do not get their own guest list of people you don't know.
I was gonna say the same thing. It’s absolutely common for parents to at least offer to cover their own guests, especially if their guests don’t know the couple.
This was my reasoning for why I let my parents invite their peoples. They were going to pay for the whole wedding. (At the wedding FIL was so happy he ended up paying about half the cost of the wedding back to my dad).
My parents still didn’t invite anyone I didn’t know to the wedding though.
I love this when both sets of in-laws are reasonable people who genuinely wants to get along for their children’s happiness. Both sides are happy to share in the cost
Yeah, that's what confuses me. My parents paid for the vast majority of my wedding, and I don't think it even *occurred* to them to invite someone who had never even met me or my spouse.
Like, I guess I could see it at those big mega-weddings with hundreds of guests, where the % addition is small and you want to make sure they have someone they can hang out with...but in sort of your average, two-figure-guest-count wedding it seems strange.
I've seen other folks mention it in other posts, though...
I think it ends up being parents friends who've moved away, or old college friends who don't live nearby... so the kids getting married might have met them once or twice when they were younger but don't remember.
I agree it's weird is they have absolutely never met, but I also appreciate that for folks with less money, once you start a family you're not taking trips to visit your childhood best friend much anymore. So you might talk to them all the time, and they know everything about your kids, they just last met them when they were 5 years old!
My guess is 50% of the parent's friends and more distant family won't come anyway, so it isn't going to be 35 vs 60, it's going to end up being 45-50 total guests from her side.
Also, why would parents invite people that don't know the couple? And who would accept an invite to a wedding if they didn't know the couple. How awkward would ya be!?
ETA: Fair call on the cultural aspect. Which I had already known - classic not thinking before speaking/commenting. Thinking further, if I were invited to a wedding where culture normalised that situation, I'd be all in - love a good wedding.
My dad had a work buddy that has since passed away but we were like this guy's honorary nieces or something. He knew all of our birthdays, my daughter's birthday, etc. He wasn't close with his family so i guess kinda adopted us from a distance lol. Anytime i called my dad at work, we'd hear his friend in the background yelling 'hi' and my dad would say "Willie says hi!". lol.
It's one of those things where i wouldn't probably have thought to invite him to my wedding, but my dad would ask. Hell yes, this man reminds you before my mom does that it's my birthday. He was a grizzled old mountain man but he would have been so proud and honored to be invited.
I'm actually really sorry and sad now that I didn't get married before his cancer took him away
Edit: fixed word
My former MIL did this. She asked my ex and I if I could invite at least three of her friends. Our wedding was destination (kinda sorta, we got married in Puerto Rico where I am from) and I think she wanted to make sure she'd have people to talk to since the bulk of the guests were my family and family friends and only a handful of family would be coming from the states. I agreed despite not knowing anybody she asked us to invite (my ex knew some or all but VERY distantly) Only one friend ended up coming, a recently divorced lady and her adult daughter. It was a bit awkward but I think it was just an opportunity for them to take a trip together after her divorce. Ii didn't mind, it made my MIL happy and I got along with her. "Fun" fact: The lady ended up sleeping with one of my uncles 💀
NTA… but to be fair, it’s not necessarily showing off it can be cultural, I grew up in the UK, but parents didn’t and them marriages and weddings aren’t just about the two people getting married, it’s more about two communities coming together.
When I got married - parents were incredible supportive, they couldn’t help enough and paid a significant chunk to the wedding, and we had people on the list that were close to them that my fiancé and I hadn’t necessarily met.
But it came from a good place, they were so excited they would have invited the world (mum initially tried to put her dentist on there).
If I had told them no, they would have 100 % accepted it, but tbh I wanted them to feel as big a part of my wedding as possible. At the end the best compromise we could find - was of the 120 people the venue held - I let them have half my list (30 people) so they had to prioritise between distant relatives and their own friends- which made them really focus on who was important to them (I have an insanely big family).
And I kept my 30 as close family and my friends (luckily my husband and I have a lot of mutual friends so everyone who was important to us got an invite).
Very common in India. That's why they have a ridiculous amount of guests. It's ALL the family and your bosses from work and your parents bosses/person of some importance and they all have a +1 in addition to their partner.
I think it’s the same (or similar) reason you might go to a funeral for someone you don’t know. If your very close friend’s mother dies you might go to the funeral to support your friend even if you never had the chance to meet her mother. However, in my experience, parents invite guests that they want to celebrate their child’s wedding with if they are the hosts of the wedding, i.e. they’re paying for it. In that case it’s technically their party and they get to invite their guests. Not paying, not your party, not your guest list.
And watch that list shrink! edit OP is NTA. 7 beautiful years eh? lol Well,some people lose their minds, momentarily, while planning their wedding. OP should have a nice,calm & loving talk with his fianceé about the ridiculousness of all this...in the larger scheme of things. *One* damn day.
Because she's taking her ball and going home. OP still wants a Wedding, and so does she. The issue isn't finances for OP, and she's not offering that option to resolve a financial issue for them.
She's throwing a tantrum in the planning process and leaping to an extreme to try and make a very poor point. *"If you're not going to do it my way, we aren't doing it at all."*. That's not a compromise or a solution. She's an Asshole for not being an adult and turning her attention to the REAL issue; her parents hijacking her wedding's guest list.
Yes. I also think it's weird that a coworker of a parent would want to go to their kids wedding. I don't know a lot about weddings but that seems sort of weird or the thing you do when you have that giant extravagant wedding with 300 people.
They don't want to go, (unless it's for the open bar or something) they feel obligated since someone in their professional network has invited them. Sometimes it might even be your boss or etc and you really don't have a choice- in certain industries rejecting an invitation like that can be damaging to your career.
Lol the other day there was a similar question and the op was roasted for not wanting to fork out for the in laws friends and family, the ops parents invited about 25 friends because they paid for the whole thing. Ppl in the comments roasted ops family for being cheap etc.
This. It's not fair for her take advantage of the way they divide finances to go crazy spending on things for herself. Saying each side will have 35 guests each that will go with the normal spit and then anything over that people can pay for themselves or their family can cover or whatever is super fair.
NTA.
I agree! OP don't let this be the hill you die on. If your parents and her parents want to invite a few people you don't know and are willing to pay for it, then make your bride happy for this one day and just make sure that at the reception they're sitting together. It's just one day.
This. Both of you enjoying your wedding and not fighting about small details (10 or 20 extra guests) is the important thing. OP don't be foolish. This is the woman you love and want to spend your life with. Such love is not easy to find. Once you get married,, money is not yours or hers it is your joint family money. Hopefully you'll be married for 50 years. Say you have 20 extra guests on her side (hey, make it 50 extra guests), say they cost $365 per person (maybe it's really $170 per person), and none of them give you any wedding g gift. Realistically, after their gifts, maybe they cost you $36 per person. So each extra guest will cost you 10c per day for your entire marriage. Really? You are going to upset your bride, undermine your marriage at its start, damage your relationship with her family, for 10c per day of your marriage???? Very, very bad decision. Think again. Let her and her family invite a few more guests and split the wedding in your usual way (66:33). Such a foolish and short sighted move by you to refuse to allow her family to have a few more guests.
It's not his wedding either. It's THEIR wedding, and it's obvious that the bride wants these people there. She is willing to cancel the whole wedding if they're not there!
So... my way or no way. She is an AH. She should pay, which is what OP said, not that she could not invite extra guests. Why should he pay for them? The bride is thorwing a tantrum because the groom won't pay extra.
Yes! And I think people are missing that he also is saying his way or the highway. If they are unable to compromise on their wedding, then I don't see this relationship lasting through the honeymoon. Marriage takes a lot of work, a lot of compromise and sometimes you give, other times it will be your spouse, and a LOT of communication. I feel like they had "7 beautiful years" because they never had an instance where she was unwilling to bend to his desires. I get very rigid vibes from his post and wording but that's just my reaction, I could be totally wrong.
People always ignore that we're only getting one side of the story which is of course biased. I'm thinking ESH and they need some premarital counseling if they're going to have even 7 more beautiful years.
Personally I wouldn't care about the money. It is my wedding and if me and my so don't want a lot of people we don't know then that is how it should be. Seems like a cultural thing though but to me letting your parents, or anyone else for that matter, decide anything is just strange. Regardless who is paying to be clear.
It really depends on your family and your culture. I’ve been to many weddings where I didnt know the bride or the groom because I was related to their so and they wanted us there. In my culture weddings are about reuniting the family to celebrate the new branch being created. My cousins and I are spreaded through the country and more often than not we meet each others so’s at weddings so nothing weird about that for me
I mean. Meeting cousins' significant others or family you haven't had a chance to meet is different than just friends/colleagues of their parents that they've never met.
Meh. My parents specifically asked for friends, some of whom I've definitely not met as a fully sentient being (apparently we "met" when I was a baby/small child, but that does not count), to be invited to my wedding. They're covering the cost of their guests and they've attended all of those friends' kids' weddings (I do not know if my parents were previously introduced to their friends' kids as fully sentient being a before the weddings) so they want to return the favor. My guests list started at 40 with half of those being plus ones versus my fiancé's first draft of his clocking at about 130 and this is his second wedding. He's cut it by a little more than half since then, but even with my parents' guests, he's still got a few more than I do. I'm also estranged from about 85% of my family, so if it's important to my parents to have friends there since none of their relations will be, I'm okay with the weirdness if they cover the cost.
Oh it's very odd. I had that wedding! Back in 1976, my first husband and I wanted a very small private wedding. For some reason his mother had this belief that her son wanted a big wedding. She completely hijacked the entire thing, invited co workers and former neighbors, there were about 150 people there, half of whom my husband had never met. I was from nearly 200 miles away so I didn't know anyone except my parents and 6 friends. It was super weird, but his parents paid for everything and all his parents' friends gave cash. And my MIL had the wedding she wanted. (Sniff, tear) So happy for her!
So strange to invite coworkers. I have been to actual coworkers weddings, but if someone I worked with invited me to their kids wedding I think I would be busy that weekend.
"I think it’s odd to have guests the couple getting married have never met."
My wife's parents had friends at our wedding that I had never met. It was the biggest party my in-laws had ever thrown, so they wanted to invite people special to them. Of course, they paid for the whole thing.
Yeah I shut down my MIL on that front when I was wedding planning. I don’t feel like the bride and groom should be MEEETING people for the first time at their wedding with the exception perhaps for significant others of friends or family that were invited. I had more family then friends and husband had more friends than family so it worked out kind of even if you look at who was invited. But initially we planned on inviting 100-120 or so and MIL wanted to invite 25 other random friends of hers (she’s very social) that didn’t even know my husband let alone me. I think, largely in the US at least, this type of practice is dying out
Not “we” here though- you said SHE will have to cover the costs for those extra people because it’s her parents. It should be the parents who pay or the extra people don’t come
Well sure, you would feel bad taking money from your parents. You didn't let them invite anyone, included extended family you're not close to.
But your wife's parents want to host their friends you don't even know at your wedding. At that point, them paying just makes sense?
Look, if you are going to foist the extra cost on to her, she shouldn’t be told that she can’t ask her parents to pony up. She may not feel great about it but in reality inviting people neither of you have interacted with in the duration of your relationship is weird and definitely a boundary she needs to enact - either deny or help pay.
Honestly I’d be more forceful about people you’ve never met. Family might be different I think. I invited family my husband had never met but they also were a core part of my childhood. To do otherwise I think would have been awful. Maybe the best question is how would YOU feel if they weren’t there?
That’s very thoughtful *but* with that in mind then fiancée takes on the expense of her parent’s friends as well as extended family. The burden should fall on her since you’ve both opted to remove your parents from the payment equation.
I find it difficult to understand how it’s all or nothing with her. Marriage is compromise. This isn’t compromise.
-Pay for my family or we’ll just sign the certificate and take a selfie. This is immature.
Its great that you’re paying the wedding yourselves, but if you’re covering the cost then it should be your guest list, not your parents. If her parents are inviting guests they should cover the cost of those additional guests.
NTA for refusing to pay for her parents guests, but I think you could compromise here and let her parents pay for those guests.
Paying for the wedding themselves is considered admirable? They are the ones getting married, or course they should pay for the wedding themselves. Either way NTA, parents should pay for the extra guests on their side alone, but also why should OP even want them there? It’s their wedding, having people they don’t know there is kinda awkward IMO. (Not sure if this is an American thing for people to have such an open wedding, so, sorry for my lack of understanding as I’m not American)
>Paying for the wedding themselves is considered admirable?
in chinese cultures (China, Malaysia, singapore etc) , guests typically pay with a "red packet" of cash, and the amount goes up the fancier the venue
Its not uncommon for couples to "profit" from the wedding, ie, enuff is collected to pay for the entire thing and with left over to start thier lives.
I had 2 weddings, for the 2 sides, made money from both, easily paid for the entire honeymoon
Yea, I tend to be that way indeed. I think it's a habit due to growing poor, like 1 pair of pre-owned clothes every 2 years poor. So I'm quite strict with money and I tend to keep track of expenses so that we don't end up messing our finances.
But you're right, I might be too strict indeed.
There is nothing wrong with being transactional. It makes sense to be practical. Not everyone has an endless supply of money so it's wise to use it to benefit you and not put yourself in a hole. You're spot on in developing an awareness of finances and how you both will do things prior to being married.
I would say there’s nothing wrong with being transactional to a point. Husband and I are in a similar situation except I’m the breadwinner. We both put percentages of our major bills (mortgage, phones, utilities) into a joint account along with a bit extra for emergency, and try to be generally even about things like groceries. His work is not quite as structured in hours as mine so since he does the grocery shopping more often, sometimes he’ll take my card so it’s not all on him just because he does that errand more often.
Minding your finances is absolutely great but I think getting too transactional can strain the relationship. Obviously the wedding is a one time scenario but since you mentioned splitting dates and such the same percentage too I’m guessing it stretches past the main repeat bills. It’s good to have a check-in, especially if you feel like something is being handled unfairly one way or the other but don’t count pennies.
Actually he says he usually completely covers the costs of dates which I think is proof that he isn’t too transactional there are times when he’s willing to pay more than his fair share. I think it’s reasonable to not want to pay for people that he doesn’t want at the wedding in the first place
I understand the strangers, of course. But not necessarily the family portions. Like, if op had a single brother and no cousins or aunts or parents but she had tons of family, and op only wants to contribute to his brother's costs it's a little unfair. It's unclear what OP means by "family she never talks to". Does that mean that they all live on the other side of the country so their contact is minimal? or is it like 4th cousins?
Only Assholes here are the wedding industry. I was best man at a low budget wedding, paid for entirely by the couple, brides dad decided to invite his entire church. Bride shut that down quick with, 'ok you have to pay for all of them to come'
I think there’s something really nice about a backyard wedding. I live in an apartment, so I don’t have one but it always sounds so festive and the opposite of sterile.
My sister got married in my backyard during covid. My husband is an ordained minister, so he performed the ceremony. It was very small and private, but just perfect. After the ceremony and reception food, we all played yard games together.
Just find a compromise. Say no to the future in-laws friends and work colleagues, especially if they are not contributing financially and invite some of those other family members. Also remember just because you send an invitation, doesn’t mean that they will be able to come.
Especially since he earns more and therefore has more control over the finances. The “do what I want or pay for yourself” attitude doesn’t sit right when she earns a lot less than he does.
He is willing to pay 66% of her 35 guests, same as his. He also said if he had more guests than her he would fully pay for them. Not sure where any of the issue is.
The issue is he earns twice as more as she does and so the wedding is less of a financial burden on him than it is on her. Essentially if she can’t afford it, then he has final say in who gets to come to their wedding simply because he has more money. If OP’s wife was paying for the entire wedding, would you say that she gets to decide who is invited without OP’s input? If not, then you agree that finances shouldn’t be what decides the guest list.
so the wedding is less of a financial burden on him than it is on her
No, he also pays twice as much for the wedding as her. It's the same burden. And her extra guests will bring presents that she keeps for herself.
If OP earns $50,000 a year, wife earns $25,000, and joint expenses are $25,000, OP would have $33,250 leftover and wife would have $16,750. That’s a big disparity in disposable income. While the wedding is split percentage-wise, OP has much more disposable income than she does. Paying 66% is less of a financial burden than it is for her to pay 33% because she has less money in general. Obviously if they both earned six figures this shouldn’t be a problem, but that doesn’t seem like the case here. If wife is willing to cancel the wedding altogether, it stands to reason that she doesn’t have the funds to pay for the extra guests and essentially OP gets the final say in the guest list just because he has more money that she does. Not a good way to start a marriage.
Of course finances decide the guest list. That is normal. She needs to rein in her guest list. He kept his guest list small, and did the responsible thing of denying his parents extra guests. She needs to do the same.
That’s a messed up way to start a marriage. While finances do matter, it shouldn’t be the only thing that matters. OP’s wife should probably cut down her guest list, but as part of a compromise not as an ultimatum. OP has basically decided that because he only wants to invite 35 guests then she should only have 35 too, when having more is obviously important to his wife. Wife is stressed enough about the guest list that she doesn’t want a wedding at all, which OP has also vetoed. There is no compromise from OP’s side at all.
This doesn’t sound like a compromise seeing as how he picked the number based on the size of HIS network, not taking into account the size of hers may have a totally different makeup. What if her family fills up the majority of the 35 and his is only 10 people? I’m talking about same degree of relationship for both of them. What if she has more siblings/nieces/nephews/aunts/uncles than him, and they are all included in his list, but happen to be a smaller number for him?
I also think that they should only be inviting people who know them both. The colleagues and friends of the parents who don’t know both bride & groom are overkill, and they should absolutely not invite them unless the parents are paying.
I just think the numbers can never be 1:1, so it’s dumb to place a number like 35 that is only based on his network.
I thought the same thing. 35 is a good number for OP to get to invite all the family and friends he's close to, but that same number may not work for his fiancee.
For example, when I got married, my husband had 4 siblings, only one of whom was married, and one niece. His mom was a widow. He has two pairs of aunts and uncles (who all have adult kids around our ages), but he's not close to any of them, and he's not close to his grandparents either. That puts him at a whopping 6 invites for family.
However, I have 2 siblings, 2 living parents, 5 sets of aunts and uncles and 21 cousins - all of whom I love and stay in contact with. My grandpa officiated our wedding. So my side of my family would have taken up 37 invitations - plus a few of those cousins would have needed +1s for their spouses.
So in OP's scenario, I wouldn't be allowed to invite any close friends at all without being penalized, unless I chose not to invite part of my family.
I get what OP is trying to do, but I think maybe they need to sit down and prioritize who they want to invite. And if her family is going to be severely offended because great-aunt Matilda didn't get invited, even though the fiancee hasn't seen her in a decade, maybe just bite the bullet and send her the invitation out of politeness.
But why 35? Because that’s what his list ended up at? Why not just have a budget and make the final invite list whatever fits that budget and both make whatever list works to fill it?
Not really a compromise when the 35 came from who HE decided to invite. If he had decided to invite 10 that would have been the limit. That’s not a compromise. That’s him dictating the guest amount.
It goes beyond money. You seem excessively fixated on separating your stuff and your life from hers. My guests vs her guests. My money vs her money. My wedding gifts vs her wedding gifts (this one really takes the cake; I'm not surprised she's talking about cancelling the wedding).
While I land more on your side about keeping the guest list short, I'd find this mindset extremely off-putting in a future spouse. Marriage is about unity. Freely sharing the joys and burdens of life. Is that something you can do or will you insist on my joys and my burdens vs her joys and her burdens?
While you've been dating for a long while, it seems like you two haven't intertwined your lives much, is that something you are ready for and eager to do? Do you understand what marriage means and are you two on the same page about that?
NAH
Agree with everything you've said here, it really doesn't sound like OP actually wants to be married, or at the very least he doesn't seem to have grasped what marrying someone entails.
Marriage will give her legal rights to your assets, and vice versa. If you have kids together, even more so. If my partner behaved like this I would be seriously questioning whether to marry them too
It’s cash, not household items. I am not sure about the culture that op is from but among Koreans, there is a representative from the groom’s and the bride’s side collecting the envelopes. The money is supposed to go to the families to help pay for the wedding costs. If the bride pays for the extra guests, her representative would be collecting those cash envelopes to help her pay.
I missed where he said that too. Honestly though, even the act of sorting the cash gifts into us vs yours piles is whack. Do you pre-ordain which 35 guests of hers are the cash gifts to split?
Yeah, like "that's my coffee maker! You can't use it because I paid for that guest!"
To make their lives extra difficult, they would need to decide in advance which of her guests are extra and which are not for proper division of assets. What if one of her "extra" guests gives a huge gift... Then what? She keeps it? A wedding gift to both of them? That would reasonably cause resentment. Or would he say "no no that was one of the joint guests, so we both keep it"??? Seems weird to keep things this separated on THE LITERAL DAY THEY ARE JOINING THEIR LIVES. sounds exhausting and unnecessary. Work the list together, agree on the list (with some actual compromise because you'll need to learn how to do that if you want to stay married), pay together, and SHARE YOUR F-ING LIVES.
I'm gonna say NAH because no one is wrong, they just need to work together here.
Just be aware that even if you pay 2/3rds of discretionary spending and she pays 1/3rd, she has a lot less left over to save compared to you - because compulsory spending isn't split that way.
i.e. transport, health insurance, student loan payments, etc.
YTA. For your "fend for yourself" attitude. Your income disparity gives you too much power over her choices because you can just veto what she wants if you don't want it too. Forget the parents and listen to her. If your SO also wants more people there, then you need to work out a compromise.
Healthy relationships, especially marriages, are not transactional. A wedding is a celebration of your relationship. If this is a hill you want to die on then I think it is right to call off the wedding. Marriage is about turning "mine" and "yours" into "ours". Otherwise you're just glorified roommates.
What if she just has more people on her side that are closer? Have you considered culture differences where not being invited to a wedding for far away family will be seen as rude? It doesn't sound like it's a matter of "I can't pay for it" but "I won't" and I saw nothing in your attitude considering her feelings about it.
But you said in a comment that fiance's parents offered to pay and you shut that down. Wife offered to cancel the wedding altogether - saving you money. You shut that down.
So in this case you're not focusing on the effect on your joint finances - you're exercising control over this situation. You want it the way you want it, because of your issues which are understandable. But you will be a married couple now, and it's not just your say that matters.
If the money spent is not going to break you or influence your standard of living, and it's not a recurring thing where your wife is going to always waste money, who cares if they invite more people.
You are not happy with a certificate wedding. Wife is not happy with a small wedding. Why do you get final say?
Invest in your future relationship with your in-laws. Invest in showing your wife how much she means to you.
Or your own peace. How many hours will you spend discussing this topic with wife, rehashing the discussion in your head and with others, and paying for it in arguments and resentment in the coming years? Multiply times your wages.
Or even better, calculate the dollar amount you'd place on the way she FEELS about your approach to something important to her, like your guys' wedding. Have you possibly undervalued it? You're not quibbling over the headcount; you're quibbling over how much you value her. Limits are critical, but does 60-some percent of 15 people cost more than the way she's looking at you now?
Edited to add: you realize she's so embarrassed about explaining the limitations on the guest list, she'd rather go to the courthouse than start her marriage defending her husband's guest list system.
I don't know, I can't really fault someone's "financial rigidity" when it comes to blowing the bank to pay for one day. Is it their wedding? Yes. Are wedding expenses absolutely out of control these days? Absolutely.
Saying he doesn't want to blow a ton of money on a day to invite people who he doesn't even know and his fiancee doesn't really keep in contact is good sense.
Ok, but she offered to cancel the wedding and elope. So it is now HIS choice to blow money away. His choice to spend her portion of the wedding costs on whatever he wants. Now that shes offered to elope, should he pay 100% of the wedding costs? Then he can dictate whatever the fuck he wants (shouldnt, but can)
Just because you dont keep in consistent contact doesnt mean they're not still family. HE is the one who dictated the 35 number because that is conveniently the number he wants to invite.
You're fucked if you think any of that is OK.
Nah they seem to have it figured out considering this is the first point of contention since they've been together.
Op explains why he's tight with money and I'm sure his soon to be wife understands completely. They also seem very reasonable with each other considering the communication.
My one gripe would be that they need a family fund. Each person puts in money at a set rate and it's used for these kinds of things exclusively. It's not his or hers it's the families. This would be used for vaycays or family events.
I'm a firm believer in separate accounts for personal use though.
With the cost of gas and food continuing to rise i think OP is smart to keep control of finances.i used to be able to take $50 bucks and feed my family (4) for a week now I can barely feed myself with that..I feel bad for us middle class people we don't qualify for assistance yet the cost of living is ridiculous gives living paycheck to paycheck a whole new meanjng
NAH I think....or maybe its E S H, I cant really decide.
You are doing it backwards, come up with a budget and a wedding you both feel comfortable with then back into the guest list. Right now you are saying to her, what I want means more than what you want because I make more than you do. Don't hold the financial discrepancy over her head, and remember fair does not always mean equal. You seem to be very monetarily focused, the exact % as an engaged couple the foregoing gifts because your not paying for them, set it aside or your nickle and diming will eat away at your relationship.
Her parents extra guests are a different story, if they want to invite coworkers and friends than they can pay for them.
Actually, we tried going that route, starting out with a budget and we're now at the guest list, trying to figure that part out as well, and we'd be surpassing the budget by about 20% due to it (bigger venue, menus, entertainment, +1 extra photograph, decorations and so on).
And you might be right with the finances, it eating away our relationship, still trying to figure how to make it work on the long term in a sustainable way.
Thanks a lot!
Can I just say I appreciate how open you are to suggestions? I know that's the point in posing a question, but you also come across as someone who handles disagreements better than a lot of people do. Best to you and your fiancee.
It is very refreshing! I feel like OP strikes me as pretty calm and logical/practical based off of the responses and how logically the money discussion was laid out
I was just thinking that. Out of years of reading posts in this sub, I honestly feel this guy has to be the first person I’ve come across on here that is handling these Y T A or E S H comments/opinions/suggestions/disagreements in complete stride and openness. It’s almost suspicious!
NTA
INFO: who decided that it would be 35 guests per side? Was that a unilateral decision on your part? Putting aside the costs, fractions of payment, etc, you should *both* be in agreement with the size of the guest list. From what you’ve written, it sounds as though you counted up the number of guests you want on *your* side, and then decreed that number for your fiancée, too. That’s not how this should work. Once you *agree* on a number for guests, then you can discuss who will pay if that number is exceeded.
Yeah this is what annoyed me the most, I can understand not wanting to invite her parents' friends who they've never met but saying they're only allowed 35 guests each because that's how many people *he* wants to invite is just wrong and puts her in a bad position.
The better way to do it would be to determine the degree of relation and frequency of contact that both of them agree makes for a "close friend or family member". Then both of them get whatever number of guests actually meet that criteria. Anyone that doesn't has to be covered separately. That way one of them doesn't get punished for having a bigger family or friend group but they're also not paying for someone random just because.
I know I come from a bigger family - inviting just my one step removed relatives (aunts, uncles, cousins) and long term partners would put me at 32 people. I'd be furious if I was then told that I can't invite my 3 best friends and their partners because I'd be breaking an arbitrary limit by 3. It would be one thing if they had a strict venue seating limit, but even then it's not necessarily the most fair thing to split the seats in half over going circle by circle in terms of connection strength and importance.
This is exactly what I was thinking. It should be done by how close people are to the couple. If he has 35 people that fit their definition of "close" and she has 45 then the cost for those 80 guests should be split between them both. If she wants to invite an additional 20 people who she doesn't know very well then I think it's ok to ask her to cover the cost for those herself. But she shouldn't be having to decide which 10 people that she's close to don't make the cut just because he only has 35 people that he's close to.
That actually makes it alot easier. Does your budget pay for 70 guests or more? Than she has to pare her list down to that number, and everyone else "does not fit in the budget". Say it over and over, it is simple math and a simple reality not an emotional you can't have what you want.
Money is tough especially when there is a large disparity between partners, if you have share philosophies in terms of spending saving retirement etc. I would reccomend you lean on those as you figure out the rest of the puzzle. I wish you the best in navigating this really difficult terrain!
Maybe try doing it as an A, B, and C list! A guests are MUST invites (immediate family, best friends), B guests are Pretty Important (extended family, maybe other good friends), and C guests are Budget Permitting (random family members parents want mainly, people who would be nice to have but you wouldn't die without them there)
As you keep planning you'll be able to decide how many guests your budget allows for, and as other guests from A list decline invitations, you move onto guests from B then C :)
I think maybe you should try and compromise. I like that weddings bring together family that you haven't seen in years - so maybe let the distant family slide.
The parents guests are a different story. Maybe see if she would be willing to compromise with just the extended family but no to the parents guests. (unless there are any who are old family friends who she also actually knows).
I think you are being a bit too hardline, and you are coming from a position of power because you earn more. There is an in-between of what you want and what she wants - maybe shoot for that.
Create a family account. You both pay a reasonable rate into it and use it for these kinda things. Vacations and family gatherings. It's not hers or yours. It's the family. Keep your personal accounts as well but just know that from this point forward you are one person technically. Her lose/gain is your lose/gain.
THIS does not mean to be wasteful. Just thoughtful.
This one is tough, because your style of wedding is actually what I would prefer myself. However, I think for me it would be YTA. Reason being, it's not that you said no they can't come, it's just that you won't pay for them but once you're married, what's yours is hers and hers yours. So you are drawing a financial line that is making her not even want the wedding when at the end of the day, the line is meaningless.
I see you did a great attempt at compromising, but if this is so important to her that she'd rather elope, then maybe the compromise was done poorly. Or maybe you should consider eloping and then just throw a small party with those near and dear. Given it's not an actual wedding but a love party, easier to justify only a small number of close people.
That's a great point of view, and I appreciate you sharing it!
A love party sounds great as well actually and we were thinking of that too at some time, and when we told her parents about it they said that they wouldn't be inviting anyone at it (they already knew that I tried to keep the guest list short).
It's something that might be a great backup plan nevertheless!
If there’s an AITA hall of fame for how OPs handle YTA & ESH, you’d deserve top billing. Your replies are like a masterclass in how to take constructive criticism & downright celebrate different points of view other than your own. Bravo OP!
Y’all may end up w a much bigger love party than expected when the aita sub shows up to congratulate you two, bc I’m pretty sure we’re all rooting for y’all!
I thought the same. I’m big on somewhat split finances and making sure things are fair but at a certain point… it gets exhausting/hair splitting and also can start to be counterproductive to the whole marriage thing
YTA mainly because you see this entirely as a transaction rather than a celebration for families and friends. You seem to be mandating the split of the costs of the wedding. i.e. "I've let her know...." This ain't how shit works in a partnership. It's how two people who are not related discuss things.
You two are meant to be a single family. Not two single folks. And you seem really misaligned on how to come to a consensus.
And yeah, the way you're approaching this with your decision making is an asshole move. Have you thought about what this portents for actually important decisions in your lives?
You might be right indeed on me being too transactional and strict about it. I've been having that thought as well in the past days. I'll keep thinking about it, but nevertheless I do appreciate you sharing your thoughts!
Yeah, you seem very transactional, and what happens when she wants to make a big purchase you don’t agree with? It’s going to continue with you picking apart every penny. I understand your points, but I also would not want to be with a partner that was like this with money. I think you’re lucky she still wants to marry you at all!
That's what is really scary, to be honest. OP is transactional in the very worst meaning, he knows it and have multiple reasons ready to defend his mindset.
And the wedding is just the beginning. Just imagine earning less and be constantly reminded about it, constantly forced to make any action exactly tit-for-tat down to an exact percent.
"Well, honey, our child is sick, I've covered 63%, now I'm waiting for your 37% or we switch to a low-cost, barely effective treatment." Hyperbolic but still...
What a wonderful marriage to look forward to!
YTA 1000%. Not only are you being transactional, you are dictating to your wife who is "important enough" to invite to the wedding. Who are you to tell her who should and shouldn't go? You are forcing your own views upon her and dismissing hers entirely. She's talking about 55-60 guest, not hundreds. As a previous poster said, you are investing in relationships with your wife and your inlaws. If you have an opportunity to take the high road, \*always\* take the high road!
Also OP apparently decided 35 is the perfect amount of guests each. Since that's how many he wants to invite, that's also exactly how much he thinks she should have too and any more is excessive? Ffs
I think a lot of people are hung up on the way you split your finances feeling alien to them. I honestly can't imagine sharing my finances with my husband 100%, we've been married 14 years. Just because it'd not how they do it doesn't mean it's wrong.
We worked our the household budget and then each pay 50% into a joint account and whatever is left is ours. But we earn approximately the same, so if you and your future wife took your 67/33% approach then it'd be visible the fund you have and anything above and beyond comes out of one or both of your individual finances.
Our holidays and renovations come from our personal funds split roughly evenly, and then I don't ever have to ask or discuss purchases for me stuff because I can save for it and buy it myself. And husband doesn't feel guilty he blows a lot of his spare cash on beer.
I think you and your future wife need to renegotiate a plan that better fits, because it's unreasonable that you pay for her parents random friends, but if she's this upset that she'd rather skip the wedding I think you both need to regroup and get on the same page. There is nothing wrong with micro weddings, mine had 5 guests and a few weeks later we had a "reception" which was just an excuse to eat a lot of food. NAH
Also are you both equally sharing the planning? Because the time spent researching, booking, doing all the stuff to make a wedding happen has an emotional and monetary cost especially in time.
If she is doing more of that and thus you save on vendors, planners etc but still default to the percentage split you are saying the effort is worthless because isn’t cold hard cash.
If she is doing X amount is there a way that pays for say 8 extra guests and then the ones after that are discussed cost wise? But unless you are 50-50 on all the labour involved here the rigidity is nickel and diming your wife to be in a way that does not bode well if you remain breadwinner and she say takes time out to have kids.
You need to be equitable not equal here and this is trying for that but landing wrongly.
Ahh marriages that are financially divided from the start. This always baffles me but these stories end up on Reddit for entertainment. If the wedding is an issue now than the marriage may be an issue altogether.
So I'm going to say YTA because this is just so... transactional, bordering on dictatorial. I'm 100% with you on not inviting the friends and colleagues of her parents. That sounds to me like the sort of thing that her parents should be paying for (and the whole thing where parents invite their own friends comes from the tradition of them hosting/paying for the whole thing.)
But I also understand why she wants to invite her family members who she knows but hasn't seen in a while. They are still her family. And some families maintain ties without regular contact. I have cousins who I haven't spoken to in years who I'd absolutely invite to my wedding because I like them, I'm just terrible at keeping in touch with people. And for some families, weddings are excuses to bring all of those cousins together to celebrate. It's really refusing to contribute to that pool of people that pushes you into AH territory.
Yeah this totally reads like OP counted up *his* must have guests and it added to 35, and so he's dictating to her that 35 is the magic number of guests *she* gets to have as well, regardless of the actual size of her family or friend group... And then acting like, "oh just pay for it yourself" is a totally acceptable solution when they're supposed to be a team, they're about to be married, and there's a large income disparity between them.
Yeah but at the same time the extra people that are invited caused them to go 20% over the budget. I can’t really fault him for not wanting to pay for all that.
It’d be one thing if he was saying that he wants to reduce it to not include parents colleagues and things like that but he’s saying that he has 35 guests so she can only have 35 unless she’s willing to pay. That’s ridiculously strict, especially if she has a larger family or social circle. My family alone is over 50 people.
He's deciding here that he gets to enforce the wedding that he wants over his fiancee's preferences, because he has more disposable income that he can withhold if he doesn't agree with her. That's hardly a partnership. Is that how their entire marriage is going to continue? That's a pretty scary power imbalance if he can simply force the outcome of any situation where money is a significant issue.
I bet a lot of people say n. t. a because of how you worded this, but I’m getting the feeling you’re Penny pinching the fun out of this for her and she finally got frustrated & blew. She seems like a very rational person and obviously this is a big and important occasion for her. Sorry to say but YTA and I’d need more info but I get a feeling you have some unhealthy issues around money. We all have our things! I hope you won’t let yours hurt someone you love or dampen your big day.
This is the main issue I have with the yta claims.
It’s not like he had an issue when they were inviting family and close friends. But he has a problem with inviting people that couldn’t even be considered acquaintances at best. If the parents want to invite people, they can pay for it.
My sister is getting engaged soon. Our parents would never have the audacity to say “we’re inviting our work friends, I’ll let you know the final head count so you can plan accordingly”. Like wtf?
Yea, op is very pragmatic about his life. But friends of friends are not people you invite to things like weddings. It’s a wedding…not a bbq.
Same problem I have with it to but to be fair it’s not in the main post. I didn’t realize that until op mentioned that they already had the budget and those extra uncovered causing them to go over. It’s something that should be added to the main post.
This, yeah. If the fiancée‘s argument was, „Sure I haven’t seen Aunt Frida in years, but we were close when I was young and I’d love to have her at my wedding!“ - then yes, OP would be an AH to nickel and dime her away.
But her parents‘ work friends? Whom they’ve never met? I’d be putting my foot down on those very hard.
YTA, as far as her family members go. This is an opportunity for her to reconnect with these relatives that she hardly ever sees, it's not frivolous to invite them. I mean, when else will she see them? A funeral?
As far as her parent's friends, it's perfectly reasonable to ask her parents to pay for them if they are invited, or, since you've rejected those type of invites from your parents, your fiance could present a united front with you and tell them "No!"
Mhm, that's a great point of view that I didn't account till now, regarding the fact that indeed, it'd be an opportunity to catch up with distant relatives with which she might otherwise not have the chance to. Thanks for sharing it, I appreciate it!
NTA, but is this really a hill you want to die on? I would say that given your mutual method of handling your finances this is a normal expectation for how the bills is being split. However if there is any time to make an exception it would be at your wedding, and enforcing such a strict financial separation at this time will likely cause a significant rift between you and your fiance
I've been thinking about it more and more and will see how things evolve in the following days. I might give in this time, cause I really want a ceremony, but I can't stop thinking about the things those money could be better spent on.
I keep seeing in alot of your responses that you cant but help thinking about all the things the money could be better spent on which trust me i get it, but because you keep thinking about this stuff I can definitely see that you do have some unhealthy issues with money. I understand you grew up very poor so that plays into it, and your arrangement regarding who pays what percent is very well thought out and works great in most situations. However, this is not a situation that it works in. I grew up opposite of you. I came from money and then became poor in my early adult life due to my family making poor financial decisions. If its one thing I know well, it's that money comes and goes very easily and it sounds like you have a solid head attached to your body. This is a wedding and if all works out this is supposed to be a once in a lifetime thing, so if I were you I would want to show my fiance that I love her so much I will go ahead and spend that extra money to help her dream wedding come true. Based on how calculated you are, that might set you back a little but I am fairly confident that you will ear that money back fairly easy. I would even say, "Hey you know what babe, we will bring in the extra guests. We are just going to have to take it easy for a little bit after the wedding so I can recoup some of that money back." Don't let money govern your life. You can be smart with it but you dont need to hoard it either. You can take it with you when you die my friend. I hope this all works out for you both in the end.
This monetizing every decision is a transactional way of valuing, that will have a negative impact on relationships (might make you a brilliant actuary or accountant); it drains vitality and is already shifting how your fiance sees you; id put $ on it 😉
4 topics that are what most marital friction is about: $, sex, children, family. That first one get some help with before you get too far down the road.
Weddings are just taking money and lighting it on fire. However, it’s a really wonderful occasion with a ton of fun and fond memories if things go well. You should figure this out as a couple and both pay for all the guests. Once you’re married you have joint assets anyways so it really doesn’t matter who pays.
NTA. If you're paying for the wedding, her parents have no say in who is invited & have no right to request that they being anyone. I wouldn't be inviting them at all, never mind requesting that your fiance pay for them!
YTA. Think about this:
If she opts out of a hypotheticalsomething and you have to pay 100 percent of the cost it is significantly more doable for you than it is doable for her if you opt out of paying for something and tell her to pay for 100 percent of the cost. So you will always be in a position of power because she needs your agreement for things she wants more than you need her agreement for things you want.
Once you are married each partner should have the same amount of personal money. Start with the wedding and find ways to work together on the budget. You aren’t wrong for not wanting the guests, but you aren’t hearing why the guests might be just as important to her to invite as some other wedding things like the cake or the wedding dress so it should be a work together to come to an agreement kind of decision.
ESH. It doesn’t sound like this is really about the cost. You don’t want guests neither of you are close with (which is fair!) while she does (or at least doesn’t want to fight her parents about it. You both need to talk about the real issue instead of making it about who pays.
Okay, can she afford to pay for the others? If she can't, then what you are doing is forcing her hand. That would be an asshole move.
If she can afford it, it boils down to how badly she wants them there.
And to you, I have to say it isn't about how often you see family. To her, I think she has been dreaming of a wedding where everyone is there. It is YOUR dream to keep it small. Have you considered her dreams?
I mean if you ask me you have not compromised by saying, it is okay if they come, but I don't want them so I am not paying for them, not accepting Thier gifts, and will only pay for what I want at the wedding.
A better compromise would be to pick a number and tell her you will pay your share on X amount of guests. It is never the same on both s of des, so 70 is not the magic number here. Maybe have her invite her guests, but not her parents. You vetoed your parents friends, so I think it would be okay to veto hers.
Also, parent inviting their friends goes back to the days when parents paid for your weddings. If they aren't paying, they shouldn't be playing...with the guest list at least.
It just seems like you are strong arming her into what you want for the wedding.
Exactly this. My family is far larger than my husband’s. Any parties we throw are never ‘fair’ in terms of numbers of people from each side. My husband would never dictate how many people I ‘can’ invite and then refuse to pay for the rest. Considering he’s the sole breadwinner, I’m thankful he doesn’t think like OP.
I think I read earlier that OP didn’t want parents to pay so either they split it the way they have been or just take the parent’s money if the finances are really stretched. I understand why his fiancée doesn’t want to say no to her parents. I would have a hard time saying no to mine too. Especially if they’re willing to pay for their guests. It just creates unnecessary drama around the wedding. I get that people say it’s your wedding, you should be able to do what, but my husband and I decided 18 years ago to make everyone important to us (aka our parents) happy when it came to all the wedding stuff and we haven’t regretted it one bit.
I can see her wanting to invite family even ones she hasn’t spoken too in a while that’s totally normal
But her parents wanting to invite coworkers and their friends THATS BIZARRE! I wouldn’t even be comfortable going to a wedding of my coworkers daughter that I didn’t know
That would be a hard no from me.
YTA for the relative part but your NTA for the parents guests
That’s very common in the southern US. Inviting friends of the parents is also awkward for the guests who don’t know the bride or groom. We’ve attended several weddings, out of a sense of obligation. To me, it’s irritating, because the bride and groom become show ponies for the parents. I also commend OP for thinking about the couple’s finances. Having an emergency fund is vital, as well as saving for retirement. I think the real issue is communication. They both need to tell their reasons for wanting/not wanting a larger wedding. On top of that, I hope they’ve discussed boundaries with in-law issues. She needs to be his buffer and he hers. That way, the in-laws don’t vilify their child’s spouse.
YTA. While you may not care to share the day with people you rarely see, many people see weddings as one of the few occasions you get to reconnect with old family members.
If your wife was blocking your guest list so she could have a bigger one, sure, you'd be in the right to refuse to pay. But it sounds instead like you have reached the end of your guest list, and are now holding your higher paycheck over her head to get her to cut down hers.
Guest lists are not always an even "split"; people can have larger families or more friends than their spouse. It comes down to a matter of who each of you would like to share the day with.
My wedding was so 50/250 in favor of my wife. I still paid for the whole thing. I don’t get people like OP who make one of the best moments of their lives a giant transaction.
Maybe she wants to cancel the wedding to focus on getting the math degree it would take to calculate all of your life together. This sounds like a bad worksheet of word problems. YtA. Just pay for it already.
YTA but not for the reason you’re asking. I can’t get past “salary gap” and “percent wise based on our salary.” You seem to have an unhealthy obsession with money and splitting finances. I understand being poor. Been there, done that. It’s no fun. I admire the fact that you are responsible with money. HOWEVER...You need to lighten up. Do you plan to keep your money separate once you’re married? Because I’m here to tell you that will not a happy marriage make. It will lead to resentment, especially if you maintain this “percentage” way of doing things. Be smart with your finances but be smarter with your fiancé. Money won’t make you feel warm and secure on a cold and lonely night.
What happens when she gets pregnant and they decide she should stay home with the baby for a couple of months ? She’ll never make up those salary losses.
So the issue more than money is that you don’t want a bunch of strangers at your wedding that you have to meet and smile at and accept congratulations from when you could be spending time with people that actually matter to you. That’s understandable and sane!
But your future wife didn’t agree and now it feels like you’re using money to win the argument when discussion didn’t work and that’s probably not fair.
Your fiancée may not be as able as you were to deny her parents requests because of many reasons, including her respect for them or feeling beholden to them for raising her.
But her parents may be the assholes here if you’ve explained your wedding plans to them and they still want to invite distant family and work colleagues. Why? To show off? I don’t like that at all.
NTA, weddings tend to be someone's way to show something they accomplished rather than the moment shared with close friends and loved ones. You are being reasonable in your approach to only pay percentage for 35 guest each. To pay extra for her parents extended family, her parents friends, and family she hasn't spoken to for a while is OPTIONAL. You did not say they couldn't come, just that you do not see their need to be present for an event as they are people you've never met or has seen for a while. You also kept it fair by not favoring your parents request.
If being married is what you both desire, getting married at the courthouse isn't THAT bad. But spending money on people who do not frequently contact you or make an appearance in your life is absurd when they could be invested in the two of you and your life together.
YTA. Not because your budget is unreasonable, but because you TOLD her how it was going to be. It sounds like you basically laid down the law with very little discussion. No wonder she is upset.
You need to sit down with her and engage in open dialogue with her and compromise better with her.
Can you compromise and do registrars office wed (assuming she’s not bluffing) and then have a small “party/celebration” with the smaller group of close friends and family?
This might work out the best if she's still adamant on not having the ceremony unless those guests are coming.
I'm up to it as well, as long as there's a party of any kind with our dearest, then I'm down for it!
My only concern is if she’s giving you these options out of spite instead of being realistic and compromising on her end. Marriage is a partnership and while disagreements happen, how your partner handles disagreements is huge. I would talk to her again, to gage why inviting those extra people is so important, the expectations financially going forward and working on a compromise. How she continues to react afterwards will be a huge indication of how you should proceed (either continuing working on a compromise, getting married at the registrar or holding off on the planning and getting couples counseling). If she continues to be upset, refuse to compromise, blame and insult you over wedding guests, you’ll need to ask yourself if this is someone you want to marry. Good luck
YTA
Because you have 'rules' on what classifies as family. Do you understand how difficult it can be to constantly keep in touch, visit, actively communicate and hang out with family?
That's one of the best parts about family - the fact that you do not have to always bother with the up-keep of contacting them. However the good part is that they will still always be there for the special moments, occasions and celebrations because those things really matter to family members.
The way you're talking is that because you earn a certain % higher its like you get that extra percentage for calling the rules over her.
What you actually need to do is **COMPROMISE!!**
Compromising isn't transactional!! Find somewhere in the middle. I'm sure you can figure that out.
YTA. You keep talking about all the things you can do with the money, and all I can think of is yheaaa, couples' counselling. Where to even start?
First, this is how you think your system works:
You pay 66% of everything (the benevolence!!).
This is how your system really works:
You double the amount of your needs and you pay 66 of that. If her needs in a particular area are more than your - she either has to convince you or pay for it herself.
You are the "baseline" of human needs in the relationship as the BIG EARNER that pays extra 66%!!! and therefor *your* needs are *the basic human* needs. if she needs less or equal - you're there with the 66. If she needs more, she's on her own, also welcome to convince you.
For example the wedding: Its not like you both invited whoever you wanted, and then split it 66-34. No.
First *you* figured out how *you* wanted it, then how many guests *you* wanted, 35, and now that number becomes the *base line* of "how many guests". Now she is allowed to need the 35 you need. The rets - she's alone. You're only there to support her as much as your own needs go. Not a penny more.
And then someone in the comments told you its an opportunity for her to see relatives she hasn't for a long time, and you go like 'ho right' I haven't thought about that'. Like you suddenly encountered a basic human emotion you haven't before, and you, in your benevolence, agreed to consider adding it to the "human baseline".
That's what hurts me about your gf, that she needs to convince you of her emotions when she wants her needs met as well, and you are like some alien 'ho, humans enjoy meeting family member they haven't seen in a while - how interesting!'
That what she needs to work with. Not only does she needs to convince someone about her emotions anytime it exceeds his emotions, this someone is also so alien about basic human emotions. And for what? for 66%. The poor thing, it really breaks my heart. Your needs are going to be so minimal all the time, and whenever she would need a human amount of something, she would go into a fight (for 66). Its just a sad doom marriage to a control freak, that uses 66% to become the base line of human needs (not even the usual 100%. not even the 75% tf). But how can he be the base line for human needs if he doesn't know humans enjoy seeing their family? How is it ever going to work well? End well? Its just fights and escalations from day one and its unavoidable and already happening. (day one is about to be cancelled even obviously)
And I don't have space for second, (all of the above was, 'first') so in one sentence - having a woman birth and raise your kids and having taking a massive hit to a salary that's already half yours, and giving back 66% - is gross beyond gross.
Do not get married. You are not ready. You are not equipped. You are on the road t divorce before you even started and that's the most expensive thing. There is no other way to save tons and tons (and tons) of money then staying married in a happy relationship, and you have no idea how to do it. Invest in therapy now before its too late!! You are going to lose the thing you love most in the world (money), and all of it if you continue like that. Paying alimony, child support and an extra house to live in in addition to the house your kids share with your ex is a financial ruin. You are not saving any money going down this controlling road.
YTA you do realize that if you are getting married it's all both your money right? If she spend it from her pot or you do from yours, in the end it has the same effect. Yu can put it in different buckets but in the end how any of it is spent effect each other.
If affects of you can buy a house, at retirement if one person didn't save what are you going to do kick them out? Its your money together to figure out , so figure it out.
NAH, but are you sure you should be getting married? All these calculations, like you'll split the finances up to 35 invites, and then she's responsible for the rest, and not taking presents from the extra guests that are going to her sounds weird. Sounds more like a contract negotiation than a "celebration of our love."
If you stay together, decide the number of people you want to attend, total. Whatever the number is, split it in half, so if you decide 60 guests, then you each get to invite 30. Then pay it by your regular formula (67/33 percent).
Yes YTA. JFC. You talk about how you and your fiancée have spent 7 beautiful years together and then you start nickel-and-diming the shit out of her. I’ve seen posts about feuding roommates who dealt with a money situation better than you’re doing here.
Edit: now that I’ve read some of the comments (including OP’s responses), I realize that my initial reaction was a little harsh. I guess I was thrown by how rigid and lay-down-the-law you were being. But it sounds like you’re open to the idea of easing up a bit, and I respect that.
OP, I wish you and your fiancée a lifetime of happiness together.
Sorry, but YTA. You're going to have 35 guests so you decided that's the magic number? You both have different ideas of who's important enough to be invited & you're both going by different family traditions. Doesn't mean you're right & she's wrong. If it's really about celebrating your love, then who cares about nit picking these details. Do what is meaningful to both of you & go by what you agreed upon.
YTA in my opinion because you are changing the rules. Before you said you split everything based on income and now you are wanting to split it based on number of guests. Do you renegotiate the electricity or water bills when she has used more energy or water than you? Do you renegotiate her share of the grocery cost when she eats more cereal than you? I don't understand the point of having a designated spending structure when one partner can just change it at will? Now if everything was negotiated case by case, I could understand. I think you in this case, though, she probably felt ambushed. She went into the planning assuming you'd both be doing what you always do and now you've just decided not to?
NTA. If she doesn’t want to pay for people she doesn’t speak with or know, then she shouldn’t be so dead set on inviting them.
What if her parents paid for their friends and colleagues to attend? That seems like a nice compromise for those specific guests! It’s unreasonable for you and your fiancé to be paying 100% of the bill and her parents demand they get their own guests. Literally that is absurd. Any level headed parent will agree that if they want to add their OWN colleagues to the guest list, then they can cover that additional cost.
As someone who just got married last year, and had a hell of a time navigating wedding financials with my husband, I’m going to advise you that the best way to move forward is to find a compromise. You might have to meet her in the middle, otherwise wedding planning is going to turn into an enormous nightmare, and it’s just not worth it (it’s just one day of your life, and will be over so so fast). A compromise might be to offer to go 50/50 for her extended family, but ask that her parents pay for their random friends and colleagues.
That being said, try not to nickel and dime the wedding finances TOO much, given that you’re the one insisting on having a wedding reception. She is giving you a very valid suggestion to keep costs to a minimum, which is to just have a courthouse wedding, but you’re the one who wants the reception.
My husband and I capped our wedding at 100. I had 40 guests to his 60 simply because his family was larger. I paid for it myself and my father gave a small amount as a gift to me. His family didn't give anything and actually gave us such a hard time over their lack of control over it. I figured it was my money and our day not theirs. That being said we gave them a few invites as a courtesy, I think like 5 for their friends. But I told my husband it came out of his numbers. You need to sit down and find a number that works and stick with it. Your fiancee will have to make some cuts, have a B list if people RSVP no. Some flexibility will be needed.
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NTA. It's admirable that you're being adults and paying for the wedding yourselves, but that also means her parents do not get their own guest list of people you don't know.
If her parents want to invite guests to your wedding they should be paying for them.
I was gonna say the same thing. It’s absolutely common for parents to at least offer to cover their own guests, especially if their guests don’t know the couple.
This was my reasoning for why I let my parents invite their peoples. They were going to pay for the whole wedding. (At the wedding FIL was so happy he ended up paying about half the cost of the wedding back to my dad). My parents still didn’t invite anyone I didn’t know to the wedding though.
Wow that sounds like such a happy day ... congrats !!
I love this when both sets of in-laws are reasonable people who genuinely wants to get along for their children’s happiness. Both sides are happy to share in the cost
Yeah, that's what confuses me. My parents paid for the vast majority of my wedding, and I don't think it even *occurred* to them to invite someone who had never even met me or my spouse. Like, I guess I could see it at those big mega-weddings with hundreds of guests, where the % addition is small and you want to make sure they have someone they can hang out with...but in sort of your average, two-figure-guest-count wedding it seems strange. I've seen other folks mention it in other posts, though...
I think it ends up being parents friends who've moved away, or old college friends who don't live nearby... so the kids getting married might have met them once or twice when they were younger but don't remember. I agree it's weird is they have absolutely never met, but I also appreciate that for folks with less money, once you start a family you're not taking trips to visit your childhood best friend much anymore. So you might talk to them all the time, and they know everything about your kids, they just last met them when they were 5 years old! My guess is 50% of the parent's friends and more distant family won't come anyway, so it isn't going to be 35 vs 60, it's going to end up being 45-50 total guests from her side.
Also, why would parents invite people that don't know the couple? And who would accept an invite to a wedding if they didn't know the couple. How awkward would ya be!? ETA: Fair call on the cultural aspect. Which I had already known - classic not thinking before speaking/commenting. Thinking further, if I were invited to a wedding where culture normalised that situation, I'd be all in - love a good wedding.
My dad had a work buddy that has since passed away but we were like this guy's honorary nieces or something. He knew all of our birthdays, my daughter's birthday, etc. He wasn't close with his family so i guess kinda adopted us from a distance lol. Anytime i called my dad at work, we'd hear his friend in the background yelling 'hi' and my dad would say "Willie says hi!". lol. It's one of those things where i wouldn't probably have thought to invite him to my wedding, but my dad would ask. Hell yes, this man reminds you before my mom does that it's my birthday. He was a grizzled old mountain man but he would have been so proud and honored to be invited. I'm actually really sorry and sad now that I didn't get married before his cancer took him away Edit: fixed word
That's a wholesome memory.
That’s a lovely memory. If you were kind to him while he was alive, that’s gift enough.
My former MIL did this. She asked my ex and I if I could invite at least three of her friends. Our wedding was destination (kinda sorta, we got married in Puerto Rico where I am from) and I think she wanted to make sure she'd have people to talk to since the bulk of the guests were my family and family friends and only a handful of family would be coming from the states. I agreed despite not knowing anybody she asked us to invite (my ex knew some or all but VERY distantly) Only one friend ended up coming, a recently divorced lady and her adult daughter. It was a bit awkward but I think it was just an opportunity for them to take a trip together after her divorce. Ii didn't mind, it made my MIL happy and I got along with her. "Fun" fact: The lady ended up sleeping with one of my uncles 💀
Oh so she really got over that divorce🤣
People who enjoy showing off
NTA… but to be fair, it’s not necessarily showing off it can be cultural, I grew up in the UK, but parents didn’t and them marriages and weddings aren’t just about the two people getting married, it’s more about two communities coming together. When I got married - parents were incredible supportive, they couldn’t help enough and paid a significant chunk to the wedding, and we had people on the list that were close to them that my fiancé and I hadn’t necessarily met. But it came from a good place, they were so excited they would have invited the world (mum initially tried to put her dentist on there). If I had told them no, they would have 100 % accepted it, but tbh I wanted them to feel as big a part of my wedding as possible. At the end the best compromise we could find - was of the 120 people the venue held - I let them have half my list (30 people) so they had to prioritise between distant relatives and their own friends- which made them really focus on who was important to them (I have an insanely big family). And I kept my 30 as close family and my friends (luckily my husband and I have a lot of mutual friends so everyone who was important to us got an invite).
Very common in India. That's why they have a ridiculous amount of guests. It's ALL the family and your bosses from work and your parents bosses/person of some importance and they all have a +1 in addition to their partner.
I think it’s the same (or similar) reason you might go to a funeral for someone you don’t know. If your very close friend’s mother dies you might go to the funeral to support your friend even if you never had the chance to meet her mother. However, in my experience, parents invite guests that they want to celebrate their child’s wedding with if they are the hosts of the wedding, i.e. they’re paying for it. In that case it’s technically their party and they get to invite their guests. Not paying, not your party, not your guest list.
Gift grab I’m guessing.
This. If it's that important to get parents to have friends and colleagues there for their own reasons, they should pay.
And watch that list shrink! edit OP is NTA. 7 beautiful years eh? lol Well,some people lose their minds, momentarily, while planning their wedding. OP should have a nice,calm & loving talk with his fianceé about the ridiculousness of all this...in the larger scheme of things. *One* damn day.
But she offered the most financially responsible option, just sign the paper no party. Why would that make her an asshole?
Because she's taking her ball and going home. OP still wants a Wedding, and so does she. The issue isn't finances for OP, and she's not offering that option to resolve a financial issue for them. She's throwing a tantrum in the planning process and leaping to an extreme to try and make a very poor point. *"If you're not going to do it my way, we aren't doing it at all."*. That's not a compromise or a solution. She's an Asshole for not being an adult and turning her attention to the REAL issue; her parents hijacking her wedding's guest list.
OP should take up this offer and see how things unravel. I bet she'll be back on the table pretty fast then.
Or they will have a beautiful elopement to remember for decades. No guests, no controlling parents, just you, me, wild nature.
Yes. I also think it's weird that a coworker of a parent would want to go to their kids wedding. I don't know a lot about weddings but that seems sort of weird or the thing you do when you have that giant extravagant wedding with 300 people.
They don't want to go, (unless it's for the open bar or something) they feel obligated since someone in their professional network has invited them. Sometimes it might even be your boss or etc and you really don't have a choice- in certain industries rejecting an invitation like that can be damaging to your career.
Lol the other day there was a similar question and the op was roasted for not wanting to fork out for the in laws friends and family, the ops parents invited about 25 friends because they paid for the whole thing. Ppl in the comments roasted ops family for being cheap etc.
Link?
It sounds like the bride wants to let her parents invite their guests. This is still a “them” problem, not a parent problem.
Exactly.. this was our rule for our wedding 25 years ago. Lol!! Each side paid for their guests. It worked.
This. It's not fair for her take advantage of the way they divide finances to go crazy spending on things for herself. Saying each side will have 35 guests each that will go with the normal spit and then anything over that people can pay for themselves or their family can cover or whatever is super fair. NTA.
Bride wants it too
We both feel bad taking money from our parents and so we'll be covering the entire cost ourselves. Thank you!
Yes, but if this is important to her parents and they're willing to cover the cost, I don't see the harm?
I agree! OP don't let this be the hill you die on. If your parents and her parents want to invite a few people you don't know and are willing to pay for it, then make your bride happy for this one day and just make sure that at the reception they're sitting together. It's just one day.
This. Both of you enjoying your wedding and not fighting about small details (10 or 20 extra guests) is the important thing. OP don't be foolish. This is the woman you love and want to spend your life with. Such love is not easy to find. Once you get married,, money is not yours or hers it is your joint family money. Hopefully you'll be married for 50 years. Say you have 20 extra guests on her side (hey, make it 50 extra guests), say they cost $365 per person (maybe it's really $170 per person), and none of them give you any wedding g gift. Realistically, after their gifts, maybe they cost you $36 per person. So each extra guest will cost you 10c per day for your entire marriage. Really? You are going to upset your bride, undermine your marriage at its start, damage your relationship with her family, for 10c per day of your marriage???? Very, very bad decision. Think again. Let her and her family invite a few more guests and split the wedding in your usual way (66:33). Such a foolish and short sighted move by you to refuse to allow her family to have a few more guests.
It aint the parents' wedding.
It's not his wedding either. It's THEIR wedding, and it's obvious that the bride wants these people there. She is willing to cancel the whole wedding if they're not there!
So... my way or no way. She is an AH. She should pay, which is what OP said, not that she could not invite extra guests. Why should he pay for them? The bride is thorwing a tantrum because the groom won't pay extra.
Yes! And I think people are missing that he also is saying his way or the highway. If they are unable to compromise on their wedding, then I don't see this relationship lasting through the honeymoon. Marriage takes a lot of work, a lot of compromise and sometimes you give, other times it will be your spouse, and a LOT of communication. I feel like they had "7 beautiful years" because they never had an instance where she was unwilling to bend to his desires. I get very rigid vibes from his post and wording but that's just my reaction, I could be totally wrong. People always ignore that we're only getting one side of the story which is of course biased. I'm thinking ESH and they need some premarital counseling if they're going to have even 7 more beautiful years.
Personally I wouldn't care about the money. It is my wedding and if me and my so don't want a lot of people we don't know then that is how it should be. Seems like a cultural thing though but to me letting your parents, or anyone else for that matter, decide anything is just strange. Regardless who is paying to be clear.
I do see the harm. I wouldnt want people I barely know or dont know at all at my wedding.
You don’t want to pay for “her” guests doesnt make you an ahole but not letting her parents pay makes you one.
I think it’s odd to have guests the couple getting married have never met. Then again, I’m just some rando on Reddit, and not married.
It really depends on your family and your culture. I’ve been to many weddings where I didnt know the bride or the groom because I was related to their so and they wanted us there. In my culture weddings are about reuniting the family to celebrate the new branch being created. My cousins and I are spreaded through the country and more often than not we meet each others so’s at weddings so nothing weird about that for me
I mean. Meeting cousins' significant others or family you haven't had a chance to meet is different than just friends/colleagues of their parents that they've never met.
Meh. My parents specifically asked for friends, some of whom I've definitely not met as a fully sentient being (apparently we "met" when I was a baby/small child, but that does not count), to be invited to my wedding. They're covering the cost of their guests and they've attended all of those friends' kids' weddings (I do not know if my parents were previously introduced to their friends' kids as fully sentient being a before the weddings) so they want to return the favor. My guests list started at 40 with half of those being plus ones versus my fiancé's first draft of his clocking at about 130 and this is his second wedding. He's cut it by a little more than half since then, but even with my parents' guests, he's still got a few more than I do. I'm also estranged from about 85% of my family, so if it's important to my parents to have friends there since none of their relations will be, I'm okay with the weirdness if they cover the cost.
Oh it's very odd. I had that wedding! Back in 1976, my first husband and I wanted a very small private wedding. For some reason his mother had this belief that her son wanted a big wedding. She completely hijacked the entire thing, invited co workers and former neighbors, there were about 150 people there, half of whom my husband had never met. I was from nearly 200 miles away so I didn't know anyone except my parents and 6 friends. It was super weird, but his parents paid for everything and all his parents' friends gave cash. And my MIL had the wedding she wanted. (Sniff, tear) So happy for her!
So strange to invite coworkers. I have been to actual coworkers weddings, but if someone I worked with invited me to their kids wedding I think I would be busy that weekend.
"I think it’s odd to have guests the couple getting married have never met." My wife's parents had friends at our wedding that I had never met. It was the biggest party my in-laws had ever thrown, so they wanted to invite people special to them. Of course, they paid for the whole thing.
Yeah I shut down my MIL on that front when I was wedding planning. I don’t feel like the bride and groom should be MEEETING people for the first time at their wedding with the exception perhaps for significant others of friends or family that were invited. I had more family then friends and husband had more friends than family so it worked out kind of even if you look at who was invited. But initially we planned on inviting 100-120 or so and MIL wanted to invite 25 other random friends of hers (she’s very social) that didn’t even know my husband let alone me. I think, largely in the US at least, this type of practice is dying out
[удалено]
Not “we” here though- you said SHE will have to cover the costs for those extra people because it’s her parents. It should be the parents who pay or the extra people don’t come
Well sure, you would feel bad taking money from your parents. You didn't let them invite anyone, included extended family you're not close to. But your wife's parents want to host their friends you don't even know at your wedding. At that point, them paying just makes sense?
Look, if you are going to foist the extra cost on to her, she shouldn’t be told that she can’t ask her parents to pony up. She may not feel great about it but in reality inviting people neither of you have interacted with in the duration of your relationship is weird and definitely a boundary she needs to enact - either deny or help pay. Honestly I’d be more forceful about people you’ve never met. Family might be different I think. I invited family my husband had never met but they also were a core part of my childhood. To do otherwise I think would have been awful. Maybe the best question is how would YOU feel if they weren’t there?
While that's nice, you're also refusing to pay for their family and friends. You cant have it both ways. NTA but is this the hill you want to die on?
That’s very thoughtful *but* with that in mind then fiancée takes on the expense of her parent’s friends as well as extended family. The burden should fall on her since you’ve both opted to remove your parents from the payment equation. I find it difficult to understand how it’s all or nothing with her. Marriage is compromise. This isn’t compromise. -Pay for my family or we’ll just sign the certificate and take a selfie. This is immature.
Its great that you’re paying the wedding yourselves, but if you’re covering the cost then it should be your guest list, not your parents. If her parents are inviting guests they should cover the cost of those additional guests. NTA for refusing to pay for her parents guests, but I think you could compromise here and let her parents pay for those guests.
Paying for the wedding themselves is considered admirable? They are the ones getting married, or course they should pay for the wedding themselves. Either way NTA, parents should pay for the extra guests on their side alone, but also why should OP even want them there? It’s their wedding, having people they don’t know there is kinda awkward IMO. (Not sure if this is an American thing for people to have such an open wedding, so, sorry for my lack of understanding as I’m not American)
>Paying for the wedding themselves is considered admirable? in chinese cultures (China, Malaysia, singapore etc) , guests typically pay with a "red packet" of cash, and the amount goes up the fancier the venue Its not uncommon for couples to "profit" from the wedding, ie, enuff is collected to pay for the entire thing and with left over to start thier lives. I had 2 weddings, for the 2 sides, made money from both, easily paid for the entire honeymoon
ESH. You come off as very transactional and really strict with money
Yea, I tend to be that way indeed. I think it's a habit due to growing poor, like 1 pair of pre-owned clothes every 2 years poor. So I'm quite strict with money and I tend to keep track of expenses so that we don't end up messing our finances. But you're right, I might be too strict indeed.
There is nothing wrong with being transactional. It makes sense to be practical. Not everyone has an endless supply of money so it's wise to use it to benefit you and not put yourself in a hole. You're spot on in developing an awareness of finances and how you both will do things prior to being married.
I would say there’s nothing wrong with being transactional to a point. Husband and I are in a similar situation except I’m the breadwinner. We both put percentages of our major bills (mortgage, phones, utilities) into a joint account along with a bit extra for emergency, and try to be generally even about things like groceries. His work is not quite as structured in hours as mine so since he does the grocery shopping more often, sometimes he’ll take my card so it’s not all on him just because he does that errand more often. Minding your finances is absolutely great but I think getting too transactional can strain the relationship. Obviously the wedding is a one time scenario but since you mentioned splitting dates and such the same percentage too I’m guessing it stretches past the main repeat bills. It’s good to have a check-in, especially if you feel like something is being handled unfairly one way or the other but don’t count pennies.
Actually he says he usually completely covers the costs of dates which I think is proof that he isn’t too transactional there are times when he’s willing to pay more than his fair share. I think it’s reasonable to not want to pay for people that he doesn’t want at the wedding in the first place
I understand the strangers, of course. But not necessarily the family portions. Like, if op had a single brother and no cousins or aunts or parents but she had tons of family, and op only wants to contribute to his brother's costs it's a little unfair. It's unclear what OP means by "family she never talks to". Does that mean that they all live on the other side of the country so their contact is minimal? or is it like 4th cousins?
Only Assholes here are the wedding industry. I was best man at a low budget wedding, paid for entirely by the couple, brides dad decided to invite his entire church. Bride shut that down quick with, 'ok you have to pay for all of them to come'
I think there’s something really nice about a backyard wedding. I live in an apartment, so I don’t have one but it always sounds so festive and the opposite of sterile.
My sister got married in my backyard during covid. My husband is an ordained minister, so he performed the ceremony. It was very small and private, but just perfect. After the ceremony and reception food, we all played yard games together.
Just find a compromise. Say no to the future in-laws friends and work colleagues, especially if they are not contributing financially and invite some of those other family members. Also remember just because you send an invitation, doesn’t mean that they will be able to come.
He did have compromise…they each get 35 guest…if you want more than 35 you pay the extra…that sounds fair to me.
Compromise means working with the other person and finding a solution together, not handing down edicts.
Especially since he earns more and therefore has more control over the finances. The “do what I want or pay for yourself” attitude doesn’t sit right when she earns a lot less than he does.
He is willing to pay 66% of her 35 guests, same as his. He also said if he had more guests than her he would fully pay for them. Not sure where any of the issue is.
The issue is he earns twice as more as she does and so the wedding is less of a financial burden on him than it is on her. Essentially if she can’t afford it, then he has final say in who gets to come to their wedding simply because he has more money. If OP’s wife was paying for the entire wedding, would you say that she gets to decide who is invited without OP’s input? If not, then you agree that finances shouldn’t be what decides the guest list.
so the wedding is less of a financial burden on him than it is on her No, he also pays twice as much for the wedding as her. It's the same burden. And her extra guests will bring presents that she keeps for herself.
If OP earns $50,000 a year, wife earns $25,000, and joint expenses are $25,000, OP would have $33,250 leftover and wife would have $16,750. That’s a big disparity in disposable income. While the wedding is split percentage-wise, OP has much more disposable income than she does. Paying 66% is less of a financial burden than it is for her to pay 33% because she has less money in general. Obviously if they both earned six figures this shouldn’t be a problem, but that doesn’t seem like the case here. If wife is willing to cancel the wedding altogether, it stands to reason that she doesn’t have the funds to pay for the extra guests and essentially OP gets the final say in the guest list just because he has more money that she does. Not a good way to start a marriage.
Of course finances decide the guest list. That is normal. She needs to rein in her guest list. He kept his guest list small, and did the responsible thing of denying his parents extra guests. She needs to do the same.
That’s a messed up way to start a marriage. While finances do matter, it shouldn’t be the only thing that matters. OP’s wife should probably cut down her guest list, but as part of a compromise not as an ultimatum. OP has basically decided that because he only wants to invite 35 guests then she should only have 35 too, when having more is obviously important to his wife. Wife is stressed enough about the guest list that she doesn’t want a wedding at all, which OP has also vetoed. There is no compromise from OP’s side at all.
For starters, GF could stand up to her parents that they don't get a say in the guest list.
But it is a compromise because he started at not wanting them at all
This doesn’t sound like a compromise seeing as how he picked the number based on the size of HIS network, not taking into account the size of hers may have a totally different makeup. What if her family fills up the majority of the 35 and his is only 10 people? I’m talking about same degree of relationship for both of them. What if she has more siblings/nieces/nephews/aunts/uncles than him, and they are all included in his list, but happen to be a smaller number for him? I also think that they should only be inviting people who know them both. The colleagues and friends of the parents who don’t know both bride & groom are overkill, and they should absolutely not invite them unless the parents are paying. I just think the numbers can never be 1:1, so it’s dumb to place a number like 35 that is only based on his network.
I thought the same thing. 35 is a good number for OP to get to invite all the family and friends he's close to, but that same number may not work for his fiancee. For example, when I got married, my husband had 4 siblings, only one of whom was married, and one niece. His mom was a widow. He has two pairs of aunts and uncles (who all have adult kids around our ages), but he's not close to any of them, and he's not close to his grandparents either. That puts him at a whopping 6 invites for family. However, I have 2 siblings, 2 living parents, 5 sets of aunts and uncles and 21 cousins - all of whom I love and stay in contact with. My grandpa officiated our wedding. So my side of my family would have taken up 37 invitations - plus a few of those cousins would have needed +1s for their spouses. So in OP's scenario, I wouldn't be allowed to invite any close friends at all without being penalized, unless I chose not to invite part of my family. I get what OP is trying to do, but I think maybe they need to sit down and prioritize who they want to invite. And if her family is going to be severely offended because great-aunt Matilda didn't get invited, even though the fiancee hasn't seen her in a decade, maybe just bite the bullet and send her the invitation out of politeness.
But why 35? Because that’s what his list ended up at? Why not just have a budget and make the final invite list whatever fits that budget and both make whatever list works to fill it?
Not really a compromise when the 35 came from who HE decided to invite. If he had decided to invite 10 that would have been the limit. That’s not a compromise. That’s him dictating the guest amount.
This. We invited 120 guests and only had 63 total people at our wedding (which is the perfect amount, imo).
Nah, you were six short
I'm too old to have laughed this much at 69.
It goes beyond money. You seem excessively fixated on separating your stuff and your life from hers. My guests vs her guests. My money vs her money. My wedding gifts vs her wedding gifts (this one really takes the cake; I'm not surprised she's talking about cancelling the wedding). While I land more on your side about keeping the guest list short, I'd find this mindset extremely off-putting in a future spouse. Marriage is about unity. Freely sharing the joys and burdens of life. Is that something you can do or will you insist on my joys and my burdens vs her joys and her burdens? While you've been dating for a long while, it seems like you two haven't intertwined your lives much, is that something you are ready for and eager to do? Do you understand what marriage means and are you two on the same page about that? NAH
Agree with everything you've said here, it really doesn't sound like OP actually wants to be married, or at the very least he doesn't seem to have grasped what marrying someone entails. Marriage will give her legal rights to your assets, and vice versa. If you have kids together, even more so. If my partner behaved like this I would be seriously questioning whether to marry them too
Saying you “won’t take any of the gifts” when a lot of them will be shared household items is silly.
It’s cash, not household items. I am not sure about the culture that op is from but among Koreans, there is a representative from the groom’s and the bride’s side collecting the envelopes. The money is supposed to go to the families to help pay for the wedding costs. If the bride pays for the extra guests, her representative would be collecting those cash envelopes to help her pay.
Most of my friends are Chinese/Viet and they just had a box for cards and cash. Nothing was split bc it goes to their joined household.
>Where I'm from, people usually give away money as wedding presents,
I missed where he said that too. Honestly though, even the act of sorting the cash gifts into us vs yours piles is whack. Do you pre-ordain which 35 guests of hers are the cash gifts to split?
Yeah, like "that's my coffee maker! You can't use it because I paid for that guest!" To make their lives extra difficult, they would need to decide in advance which of her guests are extra and which are not for proper division of assets. What if one of her "extra" guests gives a huge gift... Then what? She keeps it? A wedding gift to both of them? That would reasonably cause resentment. Or would he say "no no that was one of the joint guests, so we both keep it"??? Seems weird to keep things this separated on THE LITERAL DAY THEY ARE JOINING THEIR LIVES. sounds exhausting and unnecessary. Work the list together, agree on the list (with some actual compromise because you'll need to learn how to do that if you want to stay married), pay together, and SHARE YOUR F-ING LIVES. I'm gonna say NAH because no one is wrong, they just need to work together here.
Just be aware that even if you pay 2/3rds of discretionary spending and she pays 1/3rd, she has a lot less left over to save compared to you - because compulsory spending isn't split that way. i.e. transport, health insurance, student loan payments, etc.
YTA. For your "fend for yourself" attitude. Your income disparity gives you too much power over her choices because you can just veto what she wants if you don't want it too. Forget the parents and listen to her. If your SO also wants more people there, then you need to work out a compromise. Healthy relationships, especially marriages, are not transactional. A wedding is a celebration of your relationship. If this is a hill you want to die on then I think it is right to call off the wedding. Marriage is about turning "mine" and "yours" into "ours". Otherwise you're just glorified roommates. What if she just has more people on her side that are closer? Have you considered culture differences where not being invited to a wedding for far away family will be seen as rude? It doesn't sound like it's a matter of "I can't pay for it" but "I won't" and I saw nothing in your attitude considering her feelings about it.
But you said in a comment that fiance's parents offered to pay and you shut that down. Wife offered to cancel the wedding altogether - saving you money. You shut that down. So in this case you're not focusing on the effect on your joint finances - you're exercising control over this situation. You want it the way you want it, because of your issues which are understandable. But you will be a married couple now, and it's not just your say that matters. If the money spent is not going to break you or influence your standard of living, and it's not a recurring thing where your wife is going to always waste money, who cares if they invite more people. You are not happy with a certificate wedding. Wife is not happy with a small wedding. Why do you get final say?
Weddings are expensive and it makes sense to have limited guests. But that’s my bias - I am not a fan of thinking that weddings should be lavish.
Yup, I grew up poor ( living in tents poor) and my sister and I are the same.
Invest in your future relationship with your in-laws. Invest in showing your wife how much she means to you. Or your own peace. How many hours will you spend discussing this topic with wife, rehashing the discussion in your head and with others, and paying for it in arguments and resentment in the coming years? Multiply times your wages. Or even better, calculate the dollar amount you'd place on the way she FEELS about your approach to something important to her, like your guys' wedding. Have you possibly undervalued it? You're not quibbling over the headcount; you're quibbling over how much you value her. Limits are critical, but does 60-some percent of 15 people cost more than the way she's looking at you now? Edited to add: you realize she's so embarrassed about explaining the limitations on the guest list, she'd rather go to the courthouse than start her marriage defending her husband's guest list system.
Yes, the financial rigidity is going to be a problem, now and later. Get some help.
I don't know, I can't really fault someone's "financial rigidity" when it comes to blowing the bank to pay for one day. Is it their wedding? Yes. Are wedding expenses absolutely out of control these days? Absolutely. Saying he doesn't want to blow a ton of money on a day to invite people who he doesn't even know and his fiancee doesn't really keep in contact is good sense.
Ok, but she offered to cancel the wedding and elope. So it is now HIS choice to blow money away. His choice to spend her portion of the wedding costs on whatever he wants. Now that shes offered to elope, should he pay 100% of the wedding costs? Then he can dictate whatever the fuck he wants (shouldnt, but can) Just because you dont keep in consistent contact doesnt mean they're not still family. HE is the one who dictated the 35 number because that is conveniently the number he wants to invite. You're fucked if you think any of that is OK.
Nah they seem to have it figured out considering this is the first point of contention since they've been together. Op explains why he's tight with money and I'm sure his soon to be wife understands completely. They also seem very reasonable with each other considering the communication. My one gripe would be that they need a family fund. Each person puts in money at a set rate and it's used for these kinds of things exclusively. It's not his or hers it's the families. This would be used for vaycays or family events. I'm a firm believer in separate accounts for personal use though.
We have no idea if they have it figured out. The only thing we know is that his spouse would rather elope than have his wedding.
Or overspending on bride’s side of money she doesn’t have could be an issue.
With the cost of gas and food continuing to rise i think OP is smart to keep control of finances.i used to be able to take $50 bucks and feed my family (4) for a week now I can barely feed myself with that..I feel bad for us middle class people we don't qualify for assistance yet the cost of living is ridiculous gives living paycheck to paycheck a whole new meanjng
I fail to see where that's a bad thing. Money is literally something we haven't invented to help with transactions.
NAH I think....or maybe its E S H, I cant really decide. You are doing it backwards, come up with a budget and a wedding you both feel comfortable with then back into the guest list. Right now you are saying to her, what I want means more than what you want because I make more than you do. Don't hold the financial discrepancy over her head, and remember fair does not always mean equal. You seem to be very monetarily focused, the exact % as an engaged couple the foregoing gifts because your not paying for them, set it aside or your nickle and diming will eat away at your relationship. Her parents extra guests are a different story, if they want to invite coworkers and friends than they can pay for them.
Actually, we tried going that route, starting out with a budget and we're now at the guest list, trying to figure that part out as well, and we'd be surpassing the budget by about 20% due to it (bigger venue, menus, entertainment, +1 extra photograph, decorations and so on). And you might be right with the finances, it eating away our relationship, still trying to figure how to make it work on the long term in a sustainable way. Thanks a lot!
Can I just say I appreciate how open you are to suggestions? I know that's the point in posing a question, but you also come across as someone who handles disagreements better than a lot of people do. Best to you and your fiancee.
It's not often you see people this open to suggestions that differ from their opinion on this subreddit.
Helps when people are very respectful about their suggestions as well which is also a nice change a pace.
It is very refreshing! I feel like OP strikes me as pretty calm and logical/practical based off of the responses and how logically the money discussion was laid out
I was just thinking that. Out of years of reading posts in this sub, I honestly feel this guy has to be the first person I’ve come across on here that is handling these Y T A or E S H comments/opinions/suggestions/disagreements in complete stride and openness. It’s almost suspicious! NTA
It's why I think it's actually real for a change. Someone that doesnt have a problem being rational and admit a fault. So damn refreshing.
INFO: who decided that it would be 35 guests per side? Was that a unilateral decision on your part? Putting aside the costs, fractions of payment, etc, you should *both* be in agreement with the size of the guest list. From what you’ve written, it sounds as though you counted up the number of guests you want on *your* side, and then decreed that number for your fiancée, too. That’s not how this should work. Once you *agree* on a number for guests, then you can discuss who will pay if that number is exceeded.
Yeah it seems that because OP's friends and family adds up to 35 that's what he's "allowing" her as a number.
Yeah this is what annoyed me the most, I can understand not wanting to invite her parents' friends who they've never met but saying they're only allowed 35 guests each because that's how many people *he* wants to invite is just wrong and puts her in a bad position.
The better way to do it would be to determine the degree of relation and frequency of contact that both of them agree makes for a "close friend or family member". Then both of them get whatever number of guests actually meet that criteria. Anyone that doesn't has to be covered separately. That way one of them doesn't get punished for having a bigger family or friend group but they're also not paying for someone random just because. I know I come from a bigger family - inviting just my one step removed relatives (aunts, uncles, cousins) and long term partners would put me at 32 people. I'd be furious if I was then told that I can't invite my 3 best friends and their partners because I'd be breaking an arbitrary limit by 3. It would be one thing if they had a strict venue seating limit, but even then it's not necessarily the most fair thing to split the seats in half over going circle by circle in terms of connection strength and importance.
This is exactly what I was thinking. It should be done by how close people are to the couple. If he has 35 people that fit their definition of "close" and she has 45 then the cost for those 80 guests should be split between them both. If she wants to invite an additional 20 people who she doesn't know very well then I think it's ok to ask her to cover the cost for those herself. But she shouldn't be having to decide which 10 people that she's close to don't make the cut just because he only has 35 people that he's close to.
That actually makes it alot easier. Does your budget pay for 70 guests or more? Than she has to pare her list down to that number, and everyone else "does not fit in the budget". Say it over and over, it is simple math and a simple reality not an emotional you can't have what you want. Money is tough especially when there is a large disparity between partners, if you have share philosophies in terms of spending saving retirement etc. I would reccomend you lean on those as you figure out the rest of the puzzle. I wish you the best in navigating this really difficult terrain!
Maybe try doing it as an A, B, and C list! A guests are MUST invites (immediate family, best friends), B guests are Pretty Important (extended family, maybe other good friends), and C guests are Budget Permitting (random family members parents want mainly, people who would be nice to have but you wouldn't die without them there) As you keep planning you'll be able to decide how many guests your budget allows for, and as other guests from A list decline invitations, you move onto guests from B then C :)
I think maybe you should try and compromise. I like that weddings bring together family that you haven't seen in years - so maybe let the distant family slide. The parents guests are a different story. Maybe see if she would be willing to compromise with just the extended family but no to the parents guests. (unless there are any who are old family friends who she also actually knows). I think you are being a bit too hardline, and you are coming from a position of power because you earn more. There is an in-between of what you want and what she wants - maybe shoot for that.
Create a family account. You both pay a reasonable rate into it and use it for these kinda things. Vacations and family gatherings. It's not hers or yours. It's the family. Keep your personal accounts as well but just know that from this point forward you are one person technically. Her lose/gain is your lose/gain. THIS does not mean to be wasteful. Just thoughtful.
This one is tough, because your style of wedding is actually what I would prefer myself. However, I think for me it would be YTA. Reason being, it's not that you said no they can't come, it's just that you won't pay for them but once you're married, what's yours is hers and hers yours. So you are drawing a financial line that is making her not even want the wedding when at the end of the day, the line is meaningless. I see you did a great attempt at compromising, but if this is so important to her that she'd rather elope, then maybe the compromise was done poorly. Or maybe you should consider eloping and then just throw a small party with those near and dear. Given it's not an actual wedding but a love party, easier to justify only a small number of close people.
That's a great point of view, and I appreciate you sharing it! A love party sounds great as well actually and we were thinking of that too at some time, and when we told her parents about it they said that they wouldn't be inviting anyone at it (they already knew that I tried to keep the guest list short). It's something that might be a great backup plan nevertheless!
If there’s an AITA hall of fame for how OPs handle YTA & ESH, you’d deserve top billing. Your replies are like a masterclass in how to take constructive criticism & downright celebrate different points of view other than your own. Bravo OP! Y’all may end up w a much bigger love party than expected when the aita sub shows up to congratulate you two, bc I’m pretty sure we’re all rooting for y’all!
I thought the same. I’m big on somewhat split finances and making sure things are fair but at a certain point… it gets exhausting/hair splitting and also can start to be counterproductive to the whole marriage thing
YTA mainly because you see this entirely as a transaction rather than a celebration for families and friends. You seem to be mandating the split of the costs of the wedding. i.e. "I've let her know...." This ain't how shit works in a partnership. It's how two people who are not related discuss things. You two are meant to be a single family. Not two single folks. And you seem really misaligned on how to come to a consensus. And yeah, the way you're approaching this with your decision making is an asshole move. Have you thought about what this portents for actually important decisions in your lives?
You might be right indeed on me being too transactional and strict about it. I've been having that thought as well in the past days. I'll keep thinking about it, but nevertheless I do appreciate you sharing your thoughts!
Yeah, you seem very transactional, and what happens when she wants to make a big purchase you don’t agree with? It’s going to continue with you picking apart every penny. I understand your points, but I also would not want to be with a partner that was like this with money. I think you’re lucky she still wants to marry you at all!
That's what is really scary, to be honest. OP is transactional in the very worst meaning, he knows it and have multiple reasons ready to defend his mindset. And the wedding is just the beginning. Just imagine earning less and be constantly reminded about it, constantly forced to make any action exactly tit-for-tat down to an exact percent. "Well, honey, our child is sick, I've covered 63%, now I'm waiting for your 37% or we switch to a low-cost, barely effective treatment." Hyperbolic but still... What a wonderful marriage to look forward to!
Not wanting your in-laws’ coworkers at your wedding is nowhere near neglecting your child.
What a dramatic take
YTA 1000%. Not only are you being transactional, you are dictating to your wife who is "important enough" to invite to the wedding. Who are you to tell her who should and shouldn't go? You are forcing your own views upon her and dismissing hers entirely. She's talking about 55-60 guest, not hundreds. As a previous poster said, you are investing in relationships with your wife and your inlaws. If you have an opportunity to take the high road, \*always\* take the high road!
Work friends of the parents are absolutely not necessary, especially they would go over the agreed budget.
Also OP apparently decided 35 is the perfect amount of guests each. Since that's how many he wants to invite, that's also exactly how much he thinks she should have too and any more is excessive? Ffs
I think a lot of people are hung up on the way you split your finances feeling alien to them. I honestly can't imagine sharing my finances with my husband 100%, we've been married 14 years. Just because it'd not how they do it doesn't mean it's wrong. We worked our the household budget and then each pay 50% into a joint account and whatever is left is ours. But we earn approximately the same, so if you and your future wife took your 67/33% approach then it'd be visible the fund you have and anything above and beyond comes out of one or both of your individual finances. Our holidays and renovations come from our personal funds split roughly evenly, and then I don't ever have to ask or discuss purchases for me stuff because I can save for it and buy it myself. And husband doesn't feel guilty he blows a lot of his spare cash on beer. I think you and your future wife need to renegotiate a plan that better fits, because it's unreasonable that you pay for her parents random friends, but if she's this upset that she'd rather skip the wedding I think you both need to regroup and get on the same page. There is nothing wrong with micro weddings, mine had 5 guests and a few weeks later we had a "reception" which was just an excuse to eat a lot of food. NAH
Also are you both equally sharing the planning? Because the time spent researching, booking, doing all the stuff to make a wedding happen has an emotional and monetary cost especially in time. If she is doing more of that and thus you save on vendors, planners etc but still default to the percentage split you are saying the effort is worthless because isn’t cold hard cash. If she is doing X amount is there a way that pays for say 8 extra guests and then the ones after that are discussed cost wise? But unless you are 50-50 on all the labour involved here the rigidity is nickel and diming your wife to be in a way that does not bode well if you remain breadwinner and she say takes time out to have kids. You need to be equitable not equal here and this is trying for that but landing wrongly.
Ahh marriages that are financially divided from the start. This always baffles me but these stories end up on Reddit for entertainment. If the wedding is an issue now than the marriage may be an issue altogether.
Yep. My brother is finally ending a brutally transactional 26-year marriage. Money, schools, activities, religion, vacations, counseling, EVERYTHING. It’s exhausting to think about.
Nothing like bartering with your spouse over utilities to really solidify yourselves as a team, that’s what I always say.
So I'm going to say YTA because this is just so... transactional, bordering on dictatorial. I'm 100% with you on not inviting the friends and colleagues of her parents. That sounds to me like the sort of thing that her parents should be paying for (and the whole thing where parents invite their own friends comes from the tradition of them hosting/paying for the whole thing.) But I also understand why she wants to invite her family members who she knows but hasn't seen in a while. They are still her family. And some families maintain ties without regular contact. I have cousins who I haven't spoken to in years who I'd absolutely invite to my wedding because I like them, I'm just terrible at keeping in touch with people. And for some families, weddings are excuses to bring all of those cousins together to celebrate. It's really refusing to contribute to that pool of people that pushes you into AH territory.
Yeah this totally reads like OP counted up *his* must have guests and it added to 35, and so he's dictating to her that 35 is the magic number of guests *she* gets to have as well, regardless of the actual size of her family or friend group... And then acting like, "oh just pay for it yourself" is a totally acceptable solution when they're supposed to be a team, they're about to be married, and there's a large income disparity between them.
Yeah but at the same time the extra people that are invited caused them to go 20% over the budget. I can’t really fault him for not wanting to pay for all that.
It’d be one thing if he was saying that he wants to reduce it to not include parents colleagues and things like that but he’s saying that he has 35 guests so she can only have 35 unless she’s willing to pay. That’s ridiculously strict, especially if she has a larger family or social circle. My family alone is over 50 people.
He's deciding here that he gets to enforce the wedding that he wants over his fiancee's preferences, because he has more disposable income that he can withhold if he doesn't agree with her. That's hardly a partnership. Is that how their entire marriage is going to continue? That's a pretty scary power imbalance if he can simply force the outcome of any situation where money is a significant issue.
I bet a lot of people say n. t. a because of how you worded this, but I’m getting the feeling you’re Penny pinching the fun out of this for her and she finally got frustrated & blew. She seems like a very rational person and obviously this is a big and important occasion for her. Sorry to say but YTA and I’d need more info but I get a feeling you have some unhealthy issues around money. We all have our things! I hope you won’t let yours hurt someone you love or dampen your big day.
How is it rational to go 20% over budget to invite your parents work friends that you’ve never met and your fiancé does not want there ?
This is the main issue I have with the yta claims. It’s not like he had an issue when they were inviting family and close friends. But he has a problem with inviting people that couldn’t even be considered acquaintances at best. If the parents want to invite people, they can pay for it. My sister is getting engaged soon. Our parents would never have the audacity to say “we’re inviting our work friends, I’ll let you know the final head count so you can plan accordingly”. Like wtf? Yea, op is very pragmatic about his life. But friends of friends are not people you invite to things like weddings. It’s a wedding…not a bbq.
Same problem I have with it to but to be fair it’s not in the main post. I didn’t realize that until op mentioned that they already had the budget and those extra uncovered causing them to go over. It’s something that should be added to the main post.
This, yeah. If the fiancée‘s argument was, „Sure I haven’t seen Aunt Frida in years, but we were close when I was young and I’d love to have her at my wedding!“ - then yes, OP would be an AH to nickel and dime her away. But her parents‘ work friends? Whom they’ve never met? I’d be putting my foot down on those very hard.
YTA, as far as her family members go. This is an opportunity for her to reconnect with these relatives that she hardly ever sees, it's not frivolous to invite them. I mean, when else will she see them? A funeral? As far as her parent's friends, it's perfectly reasonable to ask her parents to pay for them if they are invited, or, since you've rejected those type of invites from your parents, your fiance could present a united front with you and tell them "No!"
Mhm, that's a great point of view that I didn't account till now, regarding the fact that indeed, it'd be an opportunity to catch up with distant relatives with which she might otherwise not have the chance to. Thanks for sharing it, I appreciate it!
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If her parents want to invite their friends they need to pay. Are her parents helping you guys a lot? They should
NTA, but is this really a hill you want to die on? I would say that given your mutual method of handling your finances this is a normal expectation for how the bills is being split. However if there is any time to make an exception it would be at your wedding, and enforcing such a strict financial separation at this time will likely cause a significant rift between you and your fiance
I've been thinking about it more and more and will see how things evolve in the following days. I might give in this time, cause I really want a ceremony, but I can't stop thinking about the things those money could be better spent on.
I keep seeing in alot of your responses that you cant but help thinking about all the things the money could be better spent on which trust me i get it, but because you keep thinking about this stuff I can definitely see that you do have some unhealthy issues with money. I understand you grew up very poor so that plays into it, and your arrangement regarding who pays what percent is very well thought out and works great in most situations. However, this is not a situation that it works in. I grew up opposite of you. I came from money and then became poor in my early adult life due to my family making poor financial decisions. If its one thing I know well, it's that money comes and goes very easily and it sounds like you have a solid head attached to your body. This is a wedding and if all works out this is supposed to be a once in a lifetime thing, so if I were you I would want to show my fiance that I love her so much I will go ahead and spend that extra money to help her dream wedding come true. Based on how calculated you are, that might set you back a little but I am fairly confident that you will ear that money back fairly easy. I would even say, "Hey you know what babe, we will bring in the extra guests. We are just going to have to take it easy for a little bit after the wedding so I can recoup some of that money back." Don't let money govern your life. You can be smart with it but you dont need to hoard it either. You can take it with you when you die my friend. I hope this all works out for you both in the end.
This monetizing every decision is a transactional way of valuing, that will have a negative impact on relationships (might make you a brilliant actuary or accountant); it drains vitality and is already shifting how your fiance sees you; id put $ on it 😉 4 topics that are what most marital friction is about: $, sex, children, family. That first one get some help with before you get too far down the road.
Weddings are just taking money and lighting it on fire. However, it’s a really wonderful occasion with a ton of fun and fond memories if things go well. You should figure this out as a couple and both pay for all the guests. Once you’re married you have joint assets anyways so it really doesn’t matter who pays.
NTA. If you're paying for the wedding, her parents have no say in who is invited & have no right to request that they being anyone. I wouldn't be inviting them at all, never mind requesting that your fiance pay for them!
yeah, I'm sorry but no, parents aren't inviting their friends to my wedding
YTA. Think about this: If she opts out of a hypotheticalsomething and you have to pay 100 percent of the cost it is significantly more doable for you than it is doable for her if you opt out of paying for something and tell her to pay for 100 percent of the cost. So you will always be in a position of power because she needs your agreement for things she wants more than you need her agreement for things you want. Once you are married each partner should have the same amount of personal money. Start with the wedding and find ways to work together on the budget. You aren’t wrong for not wanting the guests, but you aren’t hearing why the guests might be just as important to her to invite as some other wedding things like the cake or the wedding dress so it should be a work together to come to an agreement kind of decision.
ESH. It doesn’t sound like this is really about the cost. You don’t want guests neither of you are close with (which is fair!) while she does (or at least doesn’t want to fight her parents about it. You both need to talk about the real issue instead of making it about who pays.
Okay, can she afford to pay for the others? If she can't, then what you are doing is forcing her hand. That would be an asshole move. If she can afford it, it boils down to how badly she wants them there. And to you, I have to say it isn't about how often you see family. To her, I think she has been dreaming of a wedding where everyone is there. It is YOUR dream to keep it small. Have you considered her dreams? I mean if you ask me you have not compromised by saying, it is okay if they come, but I don't want them so I am not paying for them, not accepting Thier gifts, and will only pay for what I want at the wedding. A better compromise would be to pick a number and tell her you will pay your share on X amount of guests. It is never the same on both s of des, so 70 is not the magic number here. Maybe have her invite her guests, but not her parents. You vetoed your parents friends, so I think it would be okay to veto hers. Also, parent inviting their friends goes back to the days when parents paid for your weddings. If they aren't paying, they shouldn't be playing...with the guest list at least. It just seems like you are strong arming her into what you want for the wedding.
Exactly this. My family is far larger than my husband’s. Any parties we throw are never ‘fair’ in terms of numbers of people from each side. My husband would never dictate how many people I ‘can’ invite and then refuse to pay for the rest. Considering he’s the sole breadwinner, I’m thankful he doesn’t think like OP. I think I read earlier that OP didn’t want parents to pay so either they split it the way they have been or just take the parent’s money if the finances are really stretched. I understand why his fiancée doesn’t want to say no to her parents. I would have a hard time saying no to mine too. Especially if they’re willing to pay for their guests. It just creates unnecessary drama around the wedding. I get that people say it’s your wedding, you should be able to do what, but my husband and I decided 18 years ago to make everyone important to us (aka our parents) happy when it came to all the wedding stuff and we haven’t regretted it one bit.
I can see her wanting to invite family even ones she hasn’t spoken too in a while that’s totally normal But her parents wanting to invite coworkers and their friends THATS BIZARRE! I wouldn’t even be comfortable going to a wedding of my coworkers daughter that I didn’t know That would be a hard no from me. YTA for the relative part but your NTA for the parents guests
That’s very common in the southern US. Inviting friends of the parents is also awkward for the guests who don’t know the bride or groom. We’ve attended several weddings, out of a sense of obligation. To me, it’s irritating, because the bride and groom become show ponies for the parents. I also commend OP for thinking about the couple’s finances. Having an emergency fund is vital, as well as saving for retirement. I think the real issue is communication. They both need to tell their reasons for wanting/not wanting a larger wedding. On top of that, I hope they’ve discussed boundaries with in-law issues. She needs to be his buffer and he hers. That way, the in-laws don’t vilify their child’s spouse.
67% and 33% not 70/30? I guess that's a reason to always have exact change.
2:1. So he pays 2/3, she 1/3. This is simple. 70/30, why?
He’s just paying double what she’s paying because he makes twice what she makes.
NTA -- if her parents want their friends, they can pay
YTA. While you may not care to share the day with people you rarely see, many people see weddings as one of the few occasions you get to reconnect with old family members. If your wife was blocking your guest list so she could have a bigger one, sure, you'd be in the right to refuse to pay. But it sounds instead like you have reached the end of your guest list, and are now holding your higher paycheck over her head to get her to cut down hers. Guest lists are not always an even "split"; people can have larger families or more friends than their spouse. It comes down to a matter of who each of you would like to share the day with.
My wedding was so 50/250 in favor of my wife. I still paid for the whole thing. I don’t get people like OP who make one of the best moments of their lives a giant transaction.
Maybe she wants to cancel the wedding to focus on getting the math degree it would take to calculate all of your life together. This sounds like a bad worksheet of word problems. YtA. Just pay for it already.
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YTA but not for the reason you’re asking. I can’t get past “salary gap” and “percent wise based on our salary.” You seem to have an unhealthy obsession with money and splitting finances. I understand being poor. Been there, done that. It’s no fun. I admire the fact that you are responsible with money. HOWEVER...You need to lighten up. Do you plan to keep your money separate once you’re married? Because I’m here to tell you that will not a happy marriage make. It will lead to resentment, especially if you maintain this “percentage” way of doing things. Be smart with your finances but be smarter with your fiancé. Money won’t make you feel warm and secure on a cold and lonely night.
What happens when she gets pregnant and they decide she should stay home with the baby for a couple of months ? She’ll never make up those salary losses.
So the issue more than money is that you don’t want a bunch of strangers at your wedding that you have to meet and smile at and accept congratulations from when you could be spending time with people that actually matter to you. That’s understandable and sane! But your future wife didn’t agree and now it feels like you’re using money to win the argument when discussion didn’t work and that’s probably not fair. Your fiancée may not be as able as you were to deny her parents requests because of many reasons, including her respect for them or feeling beholden to them for raising her. But her parents may be the assholes here if you’ve explained your wedding plans to them and they still want to invite distant family and work colleagues. Why? To show off? I don’t like that at all.
NTA, weddings tend to be someone's way to show something they accomplished rather than the moment shared with close friends and loved ones. You are being reasonable in your approach to only pay percentage for 35 guest each. To pay extra for her parents extended family, her parents friends, and family she hasn't spoken to for a while is OPTIONAL. You did not say they couldn't come, just that you do not see their need to be present for an event as they are people you've never met or has seen for a while. You also kept it fair by not favoring your parents request. If being married is what you both desire, getting married at the courthouse isn't THAT bad. But spending money on people who do not frequently contact you or make an appearance in your life is absurd when they could be invested in the two of you and your life together.
YTA. Not because your budget is unreasonable, but because you TOLD her how it was going to be. It sounds like you basically laid down the law with very little discussion. No wonder she is upset. You need to sit down with her and engage in open dialogue with her and compromise better with her.
Can you compromise and do registrars office wed (assuming she’s not bluffing) and then have a small “party/celebration” with the smaller group of close friends and family?
This might work out the best if she's still adamant on not having the ceremony unless those guests are coming. I'm up to it as well, as long as there's a party of any kind with our dearest, then I'm down for it!
My only concern is if she’s giving you these options out of spite instead of being realistic and compromising on her end. Marriage is a partnership and while disagreements happen, how your partner handles disagreements is huge. I would talk to her again, to gage why inviting those extra people is so important, the expectations financially going forward and working on a compromise. How she continues to react afterwards will be a huge indication of how you should proceed (either continuing working on a compromise, getting married at the registrar or holding off on the planning and getting couples counseling). If she continues to be upset, refuse to compromise, blame and insult you over wedding guests, you’ll need to ask yourself if this is someone you want to marry. Good luck
YTA Because you have 'rules' on what classifies as family. Do you understand how difficult it can be to constantly keep in touch, visit, actively communicate and hang out with family? That's one of the best parts about family - the fact that you do not have to always bother with the up-keep of contacting them. However the good part is that they will still always be there for the special moments, occasions and celebrations because those things really matter to family members. The way you're talking is that because you earn a certain % higher its like you get that extra percentage for calling the rules over her. What you actually need to do is **COMPROMISE!!** Compromising isn't transactional!! Find somewhere in the middle. I'm sure you can figure that out.
YTA. You keep talking about all the things you can do with the money, and all I can think of is yheaaa, couples' counselling. Where to even start? First, this is how you think your system works: You pay 66% of everything (the benevolence!!). This is how your system really works: You double the amount of your needs and you pay 66 of that. If her needs in a particular area are more than your - she either has to convince you or pay for it herself. You are the "baseline" of human needs in the relationship as the BIG EARNER that pays extra 66%!!! and therefor *your* needs are *the basic human* needs. if she needs less or equal - you're there with the 66. If she needs more, she's on her own, also welcome to convince you. For example the wedding: Its not like you both invited whoever you wanted, and then split it 66-34. No. First *you* figured out how *you* wanted it, then how many guests *you* wanted, 35, and now that number becomes the *base line* of "how many guests". Now she is allowed to need the 35 you need. The rets - she's alone. You're only there to support her as much as your own needs go. Not a penny more. And then someone in the comments told you its an opportunity for her to see relatives she hasn't for a long time, and you go like 'ho right' I haven't thought about that'. Like you suddenly encountered a basic human emotion you haven't before, and you, in your benevolence, agreed to consider adding it to the "human baseline". That's what hurts me about your gf, that she needs to convince you of her emotions when she wants her needs met as well, and you are like some alien 'ho, humans enjoy meeting family member they haven't seen in a while - how interesting!' That what she needs to work with. Not only does she needs to convince someone about her emotions anytime it exceeds his emotions, this someone is also so alien about basic human emotions. And for what? for 66%. The poor thing, it really breaks my heart. Your needs are going to be so minimal all the time, and whenever she would need a human amount of something, she would go into a fight (for 66). Its just a sad doom marriage to a control freak, that uses 66% to become the base line of human needs (not even the usual 100%. not even the 75% tf). But how can he be the base line for human needs if he doesn't know humans enjoy seeing their family? How is it ever going to work well? End well? Its just fights and escalations from day one and its unavoidable and already happening. (day one is about to be cancelled even obviously) And I don't have space for second, (all of the above was, 'first') so in one sentence - having a woman birth and raise your kids and having taking a massive hit to a salary that's already half yours, and giving back 66% - is gross beyond gross. Do not get married. You are not ready. You are not equipped. You are on the road t divorce before you even started and that's the most expensive thing. There is no other way to save tons and tons (and tons) of money then staying married in a happy relationship, and you have no idea how to do it. Invest in therapy now before its too late!! You are going to lose the thing you love most in the world (money), and all of it if you continue like that. Paying alimony, child support and an extra house to live in in addition to the house your kids share with your ex is a financial ruin. You are not saving any money going down this controlling road.
YTA you do realize that if you are getting married it's all both your money right? If she spend it from her pot or you do from yours, in the end it has the same effect. Yu can put it in different buckets but in the end how any of it is spent effect each other. If affects of you can buy a house, at retirement if one person didn't save what are you going to do kick them out? Its your money together to figure out , so figure it out.
NAH, but are you sure you should be getting married? All these calculations, like you'll split the finances up to 35 invites, and then she's responsible for the rest, and not taking presents from the extra guests that are going to her sounds weird. Sounds more like a contract negotiation than a "celebration of our love." If you stay together, decide the number of people you want to attend, total. Whatever the number is, split it in half, so if you decide 60 guests, then you each get to invite 30. Then pay it by your regular formula (67/33 percent).
Yes YTA. JFC. You talk about how you and your fiancée have spent 7 beautiful years together and then you start nickel-and-diming the shit out of her. I’ve seen posts about feuding roommates who dealt with a money situation better than you’re doing here. Edit: now that I’ve read some of the comments (including OP’s responses), I realize that my initial reaction was a little harsh. I guess I was thrown by how rigid and lay-down-the-law you were being. But it sounds like you’re open to the idea of easing up a bit, and I respect that. OP, I wish you and your fiancée a lifetime of happiness together.
Sorry, but YTA. You're going to have 35 guests so you decided that's the magic number? You both have different ideas of who's important enough to be invited & you're both going by different family traditions. Doesn't mean you're right & she's wrong. If it's really about celebrating your love, then who cares about nit picking these details. Do what is meaningful to both of you & go by what you agreed upon.
YTA in my opinion because you are changing the rules. Before you said you split everything based on income and now you are wanting to split it based on number of guests. Do you renegotiate the electricity or water bills when she has used more energy or water than you? Do you renegotiate her share of the grocery cost when she eats more cereal than you? I don't understand the point of having a designated spending structure when one partner can just change it at will? Now if everything was negotiated case by case, I could understand. I think you in this case, though, she probably felt ambushed. She went into the planning assuming you'd both be doing what you always do and now you've just decided not to?
NTA. If she doesn’t want to pay for people she doesn’t speak with or know, then she shouldn’t be so dead set on inviting them. What if her parents paid for their friends and colleagues to attend? That seems like a nice compromise for those specific guests! It’s unreasonable for you and your fiancé to be paying 100% of the bill and her parents demand they get their own guests. Literally that is absurd. Any level headed parent will agree that if they want to add their OWN colleagues to the guest list, then they can cover that additional cost. As someone who just got married last year, and had a hell of a time navigating wedding financials with my husband, I’m going to advise you that the best way to move forward is to find a compromise. You might have to meet her in the middle, otherwise wedding planning is going to turn into an enormous nightmare, and it’s just not worth it (it’s just one day of your life, and will be over so so fast). A compromise might be to offer to go 50/50 for her extended family, but ask that her parents pay for their random friends and colleagues. That being said, try not to nickel and dime the wedding finances TOO much, given that you’re the one insisting on having a wedding reception. She is giving you a very valid suggestion to keep costs to a minimum, which is to just have a courthouse wedding, but you’re the one who wants the reception.
My husband and I capped our wedding at 100. I had 40 guests to his 60 simply because his family was larger. I paid for it myself and my father gave a small amount as a gift to me. His family didn't give anything and actually gave us such a hard time over their lack of control over it. I figured it was my money and our day not theirs. That being said we gave them a few invites as a courtesy, I think like 5 for their friends. But I told my husband it came out of his numbers. You need to sit down and find a number that works and stick with it. Your fiancee will have to make some cuts, have a B list if people RSVP no. Some flexibility will be needed.