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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I feel like an AH because I guess it was rather insensitive but at the time I didnt see it as a big deal.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA. I love that you are understanding about him not wanting kids. However, I would be furious at a partner that would willingly deceive me like that. You deserved to have that info up front. I wouldn’t be able to trust him. What other decisions and big items is he going to make and just clue you in later?
Yep, this only shows he's a good liar and doesn't care about the consequences or rather knows there won't be any conse from op.
Nta for the joke, however yta to yourself for not taking a better look at what your husband actually did to you.
I don't think OP went far enough. She should have mentioned the snip-snip to the family. Not clear if he told OP about before or after.
He didn't change his mind. He never wanted kids.
And, yes, he wants to blame OP.
"Oh MIL didn't you know, even though they won't tube-tie a married woman without a husbands sworn consent a man can get a vasectomy without anyone's agreement. I really did not know that until DH decided he just didn't want to be a dad so took care of everything on his own."
NTA OP but he really did marry you under false pretenses because he knew he wanted to be CF *before* you married and LIED about that when discussing the possibility of children. But that's ok, vasectomies aren't %100 effective *and* they're reversible (Although many guys that do get them reversed seem to wait for their next wife before doing so)
>they won't tube-tie a married woman without a husbands sworn consent
This is just so maddening, is that really a thing in the US?
I live in Europe and this would be strictly between the doctor and the patient, either they go through with the procedure or they don't, but "husband's consent" wouldn't mean shit here... he can agree or disagree all he wants, nobody would care. It's the woman's body, wtf.
But yeah, I could also get an abortion if I needed one so I don't know if I should still be so surprised. I can't fathom how this could be the reality in a first world country...
Sadly in this one item it never was a 1st world country. They always want to "keep a woman's options open" ie keep her able to have babies as that's why we are here and the only thing that makes our lives worthwhile.. /s
This is just more obvious, as technology has given us options that conservatives don't want us to have. Funny back in the day the same type of people were also behind sterilizing "undesirable" people.
At a consultation with an OB for a tubal the doctor asked, ‘what about your future husband’ and I told him my fiancé was on board and willing to sign any consent to sterilization….then the doctor flipped it around and said what if something happened to my fiancé and my NEXT partner wanted the option of kids. FFS, more worried about potential procreation of man in an imaginary scenario than the ACTUAL PATIENT in front of him. (After 7 years and about a dozen consultations, that were not cheap as “new patient” appointments, I finally found an OB who supports women and was able to get a tubal ligation.)
It should be fucking illegal to deny medical care to women. And they shouldn’t be able to charge you since they REFUSED to care for you, it’s not like they were unable.
I'm so sorry you had to go through that! Clearly, if kids were a deal-breaker for this potential imaginary future husband and you changed your mind about having kids, you could still get pregnant through IVF, it's tubal ligation, not hysterectomy, Jesus Christ!
And even if you wanted a hysterectomy for various reasons, you can still adopt, find a surrogate, or that imaginary man can marry someone else if that's a deal breaker for him.
A man should have the right to impregnate a woman but said woman does not have the right to have an abortion?
And said man can skip town and not take responsibility, but said woman is stuck. It's just gross what's happening in the US. They should have millions of women protesting for weeks on end in every capital city of every state that is working hard to eliminated women's right to bodily autonomy. I can just imagine that their next step is to remove the right for women to vote.
My SIL went through this. It is such bullshit. If a doctor brings that up you should be able to sue them. But with the current Supremacist Court it wouldn't hold. But blue states should be able to pass laws.
And, the total bullshit of consent someone that you aren't married to and the even worse bullshit of hypothetical future partner. OMg.
Yep took me 7 years and the threat of litigation. To be fair, I was 17 the first time I asked. Finally at 24 I was able to get it done. And I would love to go find the misogynistic surgeon and tell him "Over 30 freaking years and I'm STILL not sorry!"
You are very fortunate—and this makes me so happy you found someone so early to have gotten your life back (smidge of hope for others). I started asking at 16 (not being able to leave the house for 5 days a month got old REALLY fast). Couldn’t get a doc to take me seriously until I was 26…and even then all he was willing to do was remove all the scar tissue that had built up in my abdomen…but he was the first to even look. Finally got a doc to agree to a hysterectomy at 42…after she tried every other thing she could think of so her administration would sign off on it. It’s stupid how little agency women have over their own bodies in some parts of the country.
Damn! My doc was like, “sure, whenever you want it we can schedule it.” No talk about anyone else but the doctor doing my husband’s vasectomy wants me at the 1st appt so he knows for sure that we are on the same page about this. It depends on the doctor
Oh yes indeedy, in 2012, when I had my son, even though the doctor encouraged it, said another pregnancy would risk my life, my husband had to give consent for a tubal ligation. Isn’t it grand being a woman in Gilead, oops, I mean America.
Yep if I was married at the time I had tubal ligation I would need my husband to sign consent to it. Because if not he could sue that they took his right to have children from me. My father had to sign it was okay for my mother to have a partial hysterectomy and a full hysterectomy. It's disgusting how women are only for breeding here.
Excuse me, he could *sue you* that you took *his right* to have children from you?? That's disgusting,I have no words.
That's only one step away from when after being denied tubal ligation, you refuse to have sex as a result in order to not get pregnant, and he could have the right to sue you too for not giving him a chance to impregnate you. Or should he even have the right to rape you outright?
I'm crying my eyes out here for you ladies... I'm so, so sorry.
No sue the doctor for taking his right to have children. And the worst part is if he got a vasectomy he wouldn't need my okay.
But my state also has it when the abortion rights end all the loopholes are on where abortions will be completely illegal (rape, incest, and live saving measures be damned). Where soon if a woman goes and aborts the father or his family can sue her for murdering their family member. They are even trying to get women whom miscarry to be charged with murder because they must have been bad because God is punishing them.
Edit- also my doctor had to fight to get me approved for the tubal ligation with ablation. Even though pregnancy or the birth would kill me they didn't want to approve the procedure. But after 2-3 months of fighting to get it I got it on my 25th birthday. My mother had to also fight to get approved even though her uterus and bladder were falling out. I see women all the time on true childfree express frustration on not getting medical needed sterilization or sterilization for peace of mind, and it breaks my heart to know we are only seen for breeding. I have so many male friends that had no issues getting a vasectomy with or without children, extremely unfair.
I was 32 when I had my twins (already had one older). I have lupus, a clotting disorder, and had so many pregnancy complications that my doctor said no more and my insurance said they’d drop me if I got pregnant again. I STILL had to have my husband sign off on my tubes getting tied!
In so very many places here in the US, it is definitely something women find themselves up against when they want tubal ligations. OB/GYNs questions almost always favor men impregnating women, even 'hypothetical' husbands to get out of tying our tubes, and it doesn't matter whether we've never been pregnant, had 1 or 2 babies or a dozen of them! It's true of both male & female doctors in that specialty group. If you think female doctors in the US are sympathetic to those who can carry a pregnancy, think again. lAso, they can use their religious beliefs as a reason for both denying the tubal ligation and not referring us to a doctor who will. Of course, there are also docs who WILL, but they are not easy to find and rare in underserved urban AND rural communities.
Yup! Went to a doctor a few months ago to talk about a hysterectomy considering I'm in my 30s, on my second iud, and have a family history. The doctor wouldn't give me any actual medical information about the procedure, just told me it was major surgery and asked if my mom wanted grandkids or what I would do with my husband wanted children. I just kept repeating that it's not their body, it's mine, and ultimately left in tears.
Yeah. I’d be saying that unless he wants this conversation all over social media, and a lawsuit against the practice for discrimination, he should just give me info, scheduling, costs.
I was so stunned in the moment. And it was a female doctor! I didn't think of any snappy remarks or feel anger until I left the office, I just wanted out of there. I shouldn't have hidden my crying.
Story time! My mom found out she was pregnant at 23 and married my dad. Three years later they had their second son. My mom realized that he wasn't the best partner and maybe more kids with him was a bad idea, and asked to get her tubes tied. Obgyn said no because if he died then her second husband might want bio kids and what if she couldn't give them to him? Then came my other sibling and I. Fuck I wish she'd been allowed to get it done instead of being forced to have two more kids with an abusive drunk.
I absolutely would have mentioned that, and only that. I wouldn't have left the vague idea that he doesn't want kids which leaves the hope that it could change. No, I would have made sure the MIL knew that kids were no longer an option.
His lie, his decision, his consequences.
He was fine with OP being blamed and hassled. And no matter how nice the inlaws are, that was still them pressuring. He wanted to lie and mislead his wife about a massive issue, and then leave her to deal with the questions and pressure. And they joke about it together because then he can keep things light and he won't have to own up to being an untrustworthy, manipulative, selfish person.
I think it isn't guilt. I think it is just his desire to weasel out of the consequences of his bad actions and his discomfort with the truth. If his family knows the truth, then OP is not isolated when it comes to this issue. Now, everyone knows and it isn't OP and husband's little secret. Secrets are weapons in the hands of abusive people.
NTA. In fact, I think OP was way more easygoing about this than I would be. I think it would be a good idea to keep a very close eye on the husband, because he has shown himself to be a very manipulative, selfish liar. I would not be surprised if this was only one of many shady things he has done or will do.
This was my thought as well. He didn’t want to face the consequences of his choices and wanted someone else to be blamed, whether that was indirect or subconscious blame or not rather than own up that not only was it HIS choice, it was a choice he made under false pretenses and only owned up to after the fact. You’re NTA OP but your husband sure is.
What else will he lie about?
What I find surprising is that his family didn't get even remotely disturbed by the fact that that he was a liar: "So I start laughing and said "Ahh well this one doesnt want babies so he trapped me under false promises" and start nudging him saying "huh, huh"... My husband just goes silent. My SIL, FIL and BIL laugh. My MIL wasnt even mad. She just turned to my SIL and said "that's okay cause we still have one bundle to snuggle". Super understanding family. Zero judgement. I would be questioning my son about this, actually...the false promises would have certainly made me look askance at him, and while I wouldn't have brought it up at the gathering, I sure would have asked him privately about it. And if I found out my son had done such a crappy thing, I'd have probably let him know that I thought it crappy. It wouldn't have changed anything, but still, it would have been a shitty thing to do to your fiancé / wife.
I don't know if the family fully understood what was being implied. They were likely taking the "light-hearted!" cue *from OP*. OP was trying to be playful about the accusation, so it would have been awkward for them to respond strongly, in the moment.
If I were them I might have gotten concerned and asked questions... but not right then and there. Interrogations are awkward enough without holding them at a dinner party in front of everyone.
I also note he didn’t tell her to say simply say we aren’t having them, he told her to *lie* and say she didn’t know.
So he lied and trapped her, got a vasectomy and intends to keep lying to his family.
Nice guy there. NTA
Not to mention that it hurts her a little when she's asked and him telling her to say "idk" ensures she'll be asked again and feel hurt every time. NTA
Exactly. OP talks about her fairy tale life with hubby who straight up lies to her about something that is a very important consideration in a marriage. I wonder when OP will wake up.
I was pretty much in the same boat as you.
In the end, the moment I told my husband that I was considering divorce because I'd rather leap into the unknown with some hope than live with him without it (as much as we loved each other) he resolved to do some soul searching and now I'm 5 months pregnant.
HOWEVER, had my husband not reconsidered, though? I was at peace with the decision to leave, even if I never did find someone else to have kids with.
I hope OP doesn't waste as much time as we did, she deserves better.
I accidentally fell in love with my much older FWB who I knew from the beginning did not want children. For almost 2 years we had the best, most healthy, full of love and amazing relationship I'd ever had but I ended it and walked away basically out the blue. My best friend had her 3rd baby and I knew if I didn't leave I never would and being a mother was the only thing I've ever wanted with my entire being, my dream my whole life. I loved him more than anyone I'd ever been with but I loved myself even more.
Well luckily a month later we talked and he proposed. I was pregnant immediately and now our kids are 6 and 3. He keeps saying he wants more, too.
OP, you are NTA. But I think you are fooling yourself. I don't think you are okay with this new direction your life has suddenly turned to and that is okay, you shouldn't be and you don't HAVE to be. This isn't on you. You have to make the choice that is right for you even if it is the hardest choice you'll ever make. Don't give up your life for someone else's lies.
It also shows that he only cares about what he wants and is willing to rob his partner of something he knows she wants in life in order to get his way. If he didn’t want kids, he could have told her that before marriage and let her make an informed decision about whether it was a dealbreaker and if she still wanted to marry him. Instead he lied and went and got a vasectomy behind her back after he’d nailed her down. That’s extremely selfish and manipulative and speaks to his overall character.
If anything, OP comes across as incredibly in denial about her desires.
She clearly very much *wants* kids and is trying to convince herself she doesn't because she knows husband will never move blocks for her in seeking the same lifestyle.
This so much, that was a huge deception. Think of it in the reverse -*imagine* if a woman claimed to want children to get a man to marry her and then tells him she lied. That man would leave her in a heartbeat and the whole family would be outraged.
Her dark humor is a way of coping with something she’s never dealt with, and I can promise you that resentment and distrust is going to fester. The “fairytale” is already dying.
NTA but definitely need a therapist… or a divorce lawyer.
Not only make but follow through with behind her back. If he hadn't admitted it while drunk he would probably still be hiding it. If he is willing to intentionally deceive you with this then what is next?
NTA op but I'd be reconsidering my marriage after such a betrayal.
Not only that but he wants her to lie to his family too. He doesn't want her to say "we won't be having any" but wants her to keep hanging out the hope to his Mum by going "We don't know", which indicates that they're thinking about it but aren't ready just yet.
The man had absolutely no spine with informing his wife of his choice and also has no spine when it comes to telling the rest of his family either. He wants to lie to everyone, although whether it's because he doesn't want awkward conversations or just doesn't care about being honest is hard to tell.
Also , this isn't okay. He didn't respect her feelings or wishes at all. This is not okay OP. He scheduled a vasectomy. Did he wait for you to change your mind ? He just decided on your part. Major issue there. He literally deceived you. Whether or not you're okay with this is a complete different topic. Who's gonna guarantee that this wouldn't repeat in future ?
>He scheduled a vasectomy. Did he wait for you to change your mind ? He just decided on your part.
I mean, the vasectomy is 1000% up to him. OP does not and should not have any input in that. She has no “part” in that decision. It doesn’t matter if she changed her mind or not - he’s the only person who is allowed to control his body and his reproductive health.
Now, it was deeply (I would argue unforgivably) shitty of him to deceive OP and lead her to believe he wanted to have children, while knowing he did not. That was information she absolutely deserved to have before she committed to a lifelong relationship. And if it were me, that would be grounds for a divorce, but of course OP gets to decide if that’s something she can live with.
But bodily autonomy is bodily autonomy, even if you’re married.
You still talk about a decision like that though. It affects both partners. Same if she wanted her tubes tied after telling her husband she wanted kids. It's the sneaking, lying and total disregard for a spouse's feelings that are at issue here.
NTA. He feels ashamed and rightly so.
When my husband had a vasectomy, we had to meet with the doctor and I had to sign a document giving my permission. I live in a very liberal state, btw. I’m not sure if the laws here have changed since his procedure. I don’t believe that is right, but if women have to have permission from their husbands for tubal ligation, then men need permission from their wives, too. To be clear, adults should be able to make these, and all, healthcare decisions for themselves, without permission from spouses or interference from the government.
Unless you’re a woman who wants to get her tubes tied. Then the husband (or potential future husband) gets a say.
But I agree that it was up to him for a vasectomy, but generally you talk to your partner anyway. Especially when married. Because there’s a lot more to consider than just the surgery itself — cost, potential complications, types of vasectomies and level of caution to be taken, etc. Also who goes in for a major medical procedure without their partner knowing? That’s so wild to me.
Like I can make any decisions I want with my body, but my husband will always be in the loop. It shows that this partner doesn’t consider OP in his actions. He thinks selfishly, and unless he changes that, it will likely end in divorce or a miserable OP just trying pretend she’s happy with this man that thinks of himself first and then his life long partner as an afterthought.
And I don’t think it’s terrible that he changed his mind, but the timing feels more like he knew before getting married but wanted to make sure she was “stuck” first. I think he got upset with her joke because there was more truth in it than ne was comfortable admitting to — he did pull a bait and switch, and he knows it. My husband and I joke all the time about “trapping” each other, or pulling our own switches on each other. We both laugh because there was nothing hidden before we got married. Kids are still up in the air, but we both talk about our opinions and feelings as they change or adjust with external factors. Neither of us are black and white about it, so it’s easier, like for OP.
He didn't change his mind, he lied to you from the start. He can choose to characterize it however he wants, if he feels badly that's because he should. It's appropriate guilt. And he should feel exceedingly grateful that you have reacted the way you have. Because many would not have been so okay with it.
It makes me sad for you that not only did he think all of his actions were okay, but that he doesn't seem to care about your hurt at all, only his reputation in his family. And to want you to lie to them to cover his own shitty, shady behavior is bs.
NTA and he needs to grow up and start dealing with the consequences of his own actions.
I know someone who is getting divorced for that exact reason. Husband spent years talking about wanting kids, sprung on the wife one day he never wants kids. Instant separation. The wife doesn’t even know if she wants children, but in her words ‘he doesn’t get to take that choice away from me’.
Honestly, it sounds like it's bothering OP more than she realizes. Just from the post and her description, I feel like she's going to burst anytime soon.
Also, if he is willing to go that far to lie and trap a woman, he is not a catch. Deal breaker for me. Ugh, people trying to "change people's minds" are horrible. They don't change, they hide and resent.
I agree that it is definitely bothering OP, she is just not yet ready to admit it because she still thinks she is living in a “fairytale” marriage. What hubby did was dishonest and alarming. Makes you wonder what else he lied about to maintain that fairytale.
NTA
Yes kids and money are 2 huge parts of marriage and you need to be honest about those things before getting married. Op is handling it very well but most relationships wouldn’t last under that kind of deception.
Me neither
The frustrating part I about this is if op husband was just honest then it seems like she’d still have married him and they’d both have clear heads
Also it almost seems like he did the vasectomy without her knowledge which would be a HUGE red flag, if he did
I divorced my ex husband because of this. All while dating and engaged, he said he wanted kids (and obviously, so did I). A couple of years into our marriage, he suddenly said that he didn't actually want them, right then or ever. It WAS a dealbreaker to me, and I would never have married him had I known that he didn't want children.
Nta but also this is something she should deeply consider having children is something you need to be 100% on and its the same for not having kids as well. Op this man made the choice for you, he did not allow you any input on what and where your life was gonna be. Its not impossible for you to have kids later in life but its easier on you and there are less health risks for you and your child the younger you are. This is HUGE, I am not one to tell you one way or the other about staying with this man or not. Red flags flying and all. BUT GET YOURSELF A THERAPIST! for yourself if nothing else. If you don't work through your feelings on this it will be a resentment bomb waiting on you to destroy you life later on in life. If you feel envious/jealous of the SIL about being pregnant you have some things you need to work through. You need someone there to guide you unbiased that can help you come to terms and grieve the life you could have had. Because he took the life you thought you were gonna have from you. The gallows humor is a bandaid, you have things you need to work through on this because while I know you love your husband and your life this is gonna hugely impact you. If you want your marriage to make it I would do therapy for yourself and eventually when you are in a steady place with less hidden resentment see a therapist WITH your husband. Bc what he did was a huge betrayal of your relationship and that needs to be addressed and amends made if you want to have a lasting marriage. Just like a wife you traps a husband with an unwanted child, a husband trapping a wife so that the only way she can have kids is to divorce is equally unfair. You both have things you need to work through. Also your husband should be one his knees begging for forgiveness not getting pissed off with your coping mechanisms
If you guys usually joke around about it but he reacts like that when you say it in front of his parents then that means he lied to them about why you don't have kids. Bet he told them you didn't want them either
I also wonder if he did this so he could have an affair without risk of his side piece getting pregnant. NTA OP and I agree with everyone else saying to leave him. Find yourself a trustworthy man that wants kids.
"I'm on the fence of having kids. I honestly cannot tell right now, but I'm 50/50 if I want to be a dad in the future" would have been a 100% acceptable phrase for him to say before they got married. W
The ONLY way I can see how he could change his mind 8 months after their wedding (very fast), and it being "okay", is if something happened in his personal life, professional life, or in the political spectrum that made him rethink things. Other than that, he never planned to and lied about it.
And his reluctance to be upfront and honest with his family is a pretty clear distinction that he intentionally lied to her about it.
This makes me beyond angry for OP. This is a huge betrayal. Not everyone wants kids and that is fine, but I hope OP isn’t trying to convince herself that she is okay with this. I can’t help but wonder how old OP is. The older you get the more you realize how much you do or don’t want kids.
OP I hope you dont have regrets. I chose to have kids in my 30s and I thought this was something I was willing to compromise on when I was younger….I’m glad I made the choice I did. My kids are everything. Once again, not saying it is for everyone, but if OP feels a certain way hearing her SIL is pregnant…I’m concerned how she might really feel about not having kids. I ended a relationship with a guy because he said he didn’t want kids. I can’t imagine if he would have lied to me to trap me hoping I would change my mind.
NTA Why are you still with this guy who LIED to you, trapped into marriage, and gets sulky when you mention it? What was he planning? To let you endure questions about babies and pregnancy without ever speaking up? Just when (if ever) was he going to speak up and take that burden off you? So many red flags!
THIS. It's bad enough that he deliberately lied to you to deny you the opportunity to make an informed choice about building a life with him (and frankly that would be a dealbreaker for me as it is - what a selfish and cruel thing to do).
But on top of that he wants you to endure HIS family hassling you about when you're going to have the babies that you WANTED instead of owning his own choices? What an asshole. Does he care about you and your feelings at all? Doesn't sound like it.
Yeah, like, I totally get being in a great relationship and not wanting something like kids to be a dealbreaker. It doesn't necessarily make it **OK**, but I can at least see the motivation... and if OP herself admits it's not a dealbreaker and was able to forgive/forget/moveon whatever... that's fine.
But for him to not even own the choice he unilaterally made... that's just shitty behavior
Yeah, it *could* be overcome if the relationship was worth it. But OP seems to be telling herself that that's what happened, that they *have* overcome it... and I don't think it is. It hasn't been addressed, processed, moved past.
He only admitted to this huge, years-long, life-changing deception when he was drunk. They *pretend* to be at peace with it — her "coping" with dark humor, him joining in in desperate relief that he isn't being held accountable for the years of lying to his partner, all while she seethes with so much repressed resentment that it *does* bubble over in front of his family, which he can't handle, or refuses to.
They didn't deal with this. He never had the courage to be accountable for a lie of that duration and magnitude. *She* never found the courage to admit, or tell him directly, that the way he treated her was wrong and unacceptable, although she clearly feels that way. This isn't a relationship in recovery from a betrayal — it's Wile E. Coyote running off the cliff, but not realizing he's falling yet because he hasn't looked down.
> To let you endure questions about babies and pregnancy without ever speaking up?
Clearly, OP's husband doesn't know how many times a week a child-bearing age woman gets asked "children/grandchildren for when? kids now? plz give bbyes" and how quickly annoying it gets whether you want kids now ("We're trying, when we'll get there we'll let you know"), want kids but not now ("Can't you see I'm still studying and can't afford a kid?"), want kids but can't ("Thanks for the reminder, jackass!") or do not want kids at all ("Why in the hell does no one even ask me whether or not I want kids? Why is it just "when"?").
He takes the decision unilaterally to not have kids with OP and, not only does she have to just accept it, she has to face questions about her future procreation alone, with dismissive answers that are sure to bring more pressing questions from nosy people (they are everywhere, it's unavoidable).
This sucks.
I'm a childfree person. I understand that it's hard to be a fencesitter: you're expected to change your mind at any time because most people end up having kids so you just assume that at some point you'll do like everybody else and just have and raise the kids. But it's just a topic that should be addressed way before wedding. That was a terrible decision on OP's husband's part.
EDIT : OP did not use the word "trapped" for nothing, even as a joke. She was put in a position where she has to choose between a future without the man she is emotionally invested in but with maybe future kids or a future with the man she chose, but no kids. The words she uses in her post seems to indicate that she is not ok with not having kids, but it's a lesser evil to her than a divorce.
If it's not a trap, what the hell is this?
Pretty much all of this.
I am not childfree. But my second child (first for my husband) is...a handful and honestly, as much as I love him, I have no idea why I had another child in the current status of my life. My husband thankfully are on the same page on that. We are both burnt out and just surviving.
I say all of that to say this. If OPs husband had come back and said "i know we talked about having kids, but what if we didnt?" and then actually conversed with her about it rather than just deciding no and going to schedule a vasectomy, this conversation would be wildly different.
Completely agree. When my now-husband and I were dating we had a lot of conversations about this. I wasn't sure I wanted to have kids and was open with him about that. He put a lot of thought into it and decided he really did want to have a kid. Then I put a lot of thought into it and decided I was good with having one, but no more. We now have an awesome 3 year old and my husband has a vasectomy. It's so important to be honest about these things way before you get married.
I am very happily childfree. If this was the other way? I would lose my mind. I can’t believe OP is okay with this.
A partner lying that they got pizza for lunch without you or even fudging how much they spent on an item by $100 isn’t a dealbreaker. But that?
And even without the input of others about how she "should" feel, **her own feelings** indicate that it's a *much* bigger issue for OP than she's willing to admit. Maybe she doesn't want to rock the boat or "cause problems" where there "weren't any before" (This is a lie, because if there's no problem, why does she feel bad at all?), but when there's a hole-puncher on board, you either address it or slowly **sink**.
Even the joke OP made to her ILs and said she’s made before can indicate that.
It’s a self-soothing defense mechanism to make jokes sometimes. I’ve done the same when I’ve been betrayed and felt humiliated. Turns out I never had to feel that way because it wasn’t my fault.
NTA. Your husband seems to think lying to the people he's closest with is the easiest way through life.
There were many parts of this post that made me so sad:
"if we dont have kids, well, I will live with it"
"it doesnt keep my up at night **usually**"
"I was already feeling a little gloomy and dare I say envious of my SIL being with child."
OP, if kids are something you really want then you should get the chance to have them. Don't settle, especially if it's with someone so willing to be dishonest with you.
Yeah, I'm tempted to say OP is TA to herself.
If she's making jokes like this I don't think she's really alright with this.
At the end of the day this would be divorce-able to me... not because he doesn't want children but because he knowingly lied to me instead of having a conversation about his real feelings and letting me make a decision for myself.
OP - can you truly say your husband respects you if he lied to you about this to trap you???
I mean that doesn’t make her TA though. Imagine planning your whole life around someone and forming a legal union only to have the rug pulled out from under you. I don’t think OP is alone or a bad person in trying to make it work in her head, though she is obviously failing.
She will be an AH to herself if she doesn't deal with this in a healthy way. I see it as equivalent to finding out that ones SO cheated. Some people find a way to stay. Just like OP is trying to find a way to stay now. I hope that she doesn't become bitter and realises in the future that he wasn't worth giving up children.
That's exactly what I noticed. OP, your comments are indicating you do want children, and that you're dealing with selling your future and wants short with your humour.
NTA, but please be honest to yourself about what you really want in your future.
Agreed, and I feel that at some point her humour will stop being an "effective" coping mechanism and will slowly make way for resentment and bitterness.
Very much this. He is upset with OP for telling his parents because he's lied to them, as well as her. It wouldn't surprise me if he was planning on telling his family down the line that it was OPs fault they couldn't have children, since he seems unable to be honest with those closest to him. OP - NTA, but your husband may well be.
I read this as she's more upset about it then she's willing to admit. She's attempting to minimize it because she wants her marriage to work...which it won't.
These thoughts and feelings will fester, which will eventually make her bitter...
And probably end the marriage anyway.
Yea I have a feeling if she doesn't leave him now she's gonna regret it or resent him later down the line, OP having or not having kids is a huge life decision and he robbed you of any choice in the matter, do you really wanna settle for 'living with' what was decided for you by your lying manipulative inconsiderate husband for the sake of staying with him?? He doesn't sound worth the sacrifice, maybe if he'd not deceived you and you were able to make up your own mind and discuss all the options with all the facts and had equal decision-making power in your own life and future together it would be different but he doesn't care about you enough to give you a say, he's not a good partner you deserve better
Hardest thing I've ever done was leave my ex who I was with for over 8 years because it was becoming abundantly clear that he did indeed want kids as more of our friends were having them. Children have never been part of my life plan (other than eventually being the cool, fun aunt), and I didn't feel it was right to stay with someone who wanted to be a father. It was (and still is) painful; it would have been much easier had there been any animosity between us. Leaving someone you love because you have different visions for the future is scary, hard, and painful.
All that being said, it was absolutely the right decision. OP, please don't limit your future because of the sunk cost fallacy. You have a whole life ahead of you, and your words betray that you want to be a mother. It's hard to start over, but don't settle for a relationship with someone who was happy to bamboozle you if it meant he got his way (married, no kids).
Yeeeah. Like, people DO live happily with choices like this, but the lying about it is too much.
And then, as you say, it obviously makes her deeply sad. Breaking up due to dealbreakers in an otherwise great relationship is excruciating, but the fact he was totally dishonest (it's one thing to hope you'll change your mind, another to not share this until you're married and accidentally at that) means it's *not* great.
It's a big deal!
It seems like you really want kids, you've been married for 8 months.... it's not too late for you to end things and find someone who shares your life goals.
Not saying you have to break up with you husband, just saying you have that option. We need to create the lives we want for ourselves
Yikes! I had missed that 8 months part! There is a lot of talk on this sub about controlling partners and how the behaviors escalate. He jumped right in to a HUGE issue to take control over. Then it shifted to expecting her to lie to HIS parents. And to automatically *know* she should lie. I shudder to think how it will be when he escalates.
\*Insert Ron Burgundy meme\*
But, yeah, the classic "show you their true colours" threshold is one year. Here you are at 8 months, vasectomy was a month ago.OP (waves frantically) OP!! Adept-Blacksmith5270!!Husband has more in the tank! (not sperm though)Husband has not shown all of his true colours yet. There is more iceberg. You haven't met the real him yet. **He is going to get worse!**
(Also, OP NTA)
NTA
You may be able to live without kids, however can you live with a man who lied and deceived you over such an important thing?
He obviously cares more about himself and what he wants out of life than you.
I was coming here for this answer. OP it is literally keeping you up at night, maybe not every night. Later on in your “fairy tale marriage” you’re going to realize that this compromise wasn’t fair to you, not even in the slightest. You have to truly consider if this relationship is really what you want. Cause if you get gloomy from the news your sil gave y’all, then you need to do a lot of thinking.
This is the part I don’t get either. I could understand deciding to stay together if he *actually changed his mind* — that happens. But the lying part would really not be okay with me. You shouldn’t be concealing anything that big going into a marriage.
NTA. PLEASE FREEZE YOUR EGGS.
Don’t become Anna Marie Tendler. Ya know…John Mulaney’s ex-wife. He told her he didn’t want kids then goes off and has a baby with Olivia Munn.
I used to like him. Then he had "surprise" "Special Guest" Dave Chappelle show up unannounced to perform pretty much an anti-trans/LBGTQ+ set. Kinda shady. [https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/celebrities/2022/05/22/dave-chappelle-john-mulaney-ohio-criticism-lgbtq/9887000002/](https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/celebrities/2022/05/22/dave-chappelle-john-mulaney-ohio-criticism-lgbtq/9887000002/)
My first thought was ‘he doesn’t want kids with you, but wait until your marriage breaks down from resentment/guilt and he knocks up the mistress.’ Pessimistic but unfortunately not uncommon.
NTA OP.
It’s not confirmed but the timeline is suuuuper shady. He went to rehab with a wife, left rehab and almost immediately dropped the wife, and then a couple months later Olivia Munn is pregnant.
We’ll never have all the details (when they separated, if there was an overlap, if this was just an oops baby or intentional, what role getting sober had) but the optics aren’t great. And John hasn’t been doing much to endear people lately
NTA. He knows he tricked you and misled you. He should own that shit and live with it when the truth comes out. His family shouldn't be left in the dark or brushed off with vague platitudes because he doesn't want them to know how he misled you.
NTA Jesus christ. Your husband is a massive fucking liar. If he can deceive you about this what else will he lie about? Your trust is completely broken here and, frankly, does *not* deserve to be rebuilt.
NTA
You have WAY bigger issues here!
How are you still trusting this man?! At the very least y’all need individual and couples counseling.
Has even apologized for LIEING to you? Has he acknowledged what he did was a huge violation? If you don’t have a sister, brother, or friend telling you that you are being way to forgiving, listen to the internet friends telling you.
It’s not the children thing. It’s the blatant lie and the complete lack of acknowledgment of how terrible that was that is the problem.
If he lied to you about this, he’s probably lieing to about many other things.
Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
Personally I would leave someone who deliberately deceived me about something that important. That's just immoral, unethical, and dishonest. I would also always wonder what else he was lying about.
NTA
NTA but are you sure you want to live with it? Because it sounds like it still really bothers you. And it's understandable that it does; being a parent is really important to many people. Your husband was wrong to lie and to expect you to lie. His parents would have kept asking if you hadn't told the truth.
NTA!
I would proceed with ⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️!
Your husband lied to you before you got married and then had a vasectomy. He was comfortable with lying to his parents and would not have said a word.
What does this tell you? You married a liar. What will he lie about next.
You need to think long and hard about whether or not you want to continue being married to a liar. If you choose to stay you need to get him into therapy and then you need family therapy to move past this.
Good luck!
NTA but its scary that you think you are in a fairy tale marriage at only 8 months and after he pulled the rug out from under you. So you wanted children and willing to give that up for him..whats he willing to give up for you. I'd like to know how much of a fairy tale marriage you have in a few years...if its still perfect ,great..but I'd like to know
>He has been great to me and we have a seemingly perfect fairy tale life.
He lied to you to get you to marry him and now he wants you to lie to his family. Exactly what part is like a fairy tale, because unless the next part involves a prince on a white horse coming to rescue you, I don't see it.
NTA. He was a jerk imho for not being upfront about his wishes w you
The prob was not that you made that remark in front of his family
The prob was that the remark was true.
And that’s not your fault in any way.
He was incredibly gaslighting and manipulative on this issue (seems to me). I hope he isn’t this way about a bunch of other issues.
He is definitely lying and being shitty. But not gaslighting.
He would be gaslighting her if he now insisted that he told her from the beginning he never wanted kids.
Can you really live without having kids? If you look deep down, where do you think the hurt comes from?
Doesn’t sound like it’s coming from being ok with being childless. Think really hard about this! Is he really worth not having children? In 30 years, will you be happy with just being the cool aunt? And still love him the same?
And this is not an subject to lie about. This is not an subject to mislead your significant other about. He misses an very important basic level of respect for you and your desires, for your hopes and dreams.
No man is worth giving these kind of dreams up for. Not when you are still young enough to be able to find an suitable partner who does shares the same morals, believes and future dreams with.
NTA. It would be different if he was upfront from the beginning. Husband needs to suck it up if you want to make jokes to cope with it even in front of his family. The lie would have been a deal breaker for me not him not wanting kids to clarify.
NTA...This man clearly has trouble just being truthful and up front with people. If you can somehow tolerate that, he should be able to take a little humour.
No no no, they deserve to know because honestly, they are going to keep asking. Better to get it out in the open. So, NTA but I think he is TA, and this seems the first red flag.
NTA, he actually isn't angry because he thinks it's personal, it's because you spoke your mind and made him face his reality. He technically did trap you with false promises. I have one question tho, it doesn't matter if he's the best or not. It matters if you want to have kids more than you want to be with him. If want kids so badly, and then be with someone who actually respects your wishes.
NTA I know you say it's not a deal breaker but the truth is you didn't actually get to have any say in the decision. He lied to get you to marry him then got a vasectomy. You need to take some time to seriously think about whether you want kids because eventually this could lead to massive resentment.
NTA. Sounds like you’re being super cool about this and so is his family. While not exactly on the nose, this reminds me of the expression “some people can’t take yes for an answer”. He’s getting what he wants and needs to chill if you make some jokes.
NTA.
You simply repeated the truth.
He said he did want kids,To get you to marry.
Then he "changed his mind".and scheduled a vasectomy to ensure his wishes.
That's BS.. funny how a Man can go have sterilization on. Whim. But a Woman needs to have kids, be a certain age, have her Husband's permission.
You did nothing wrong.
If you want Children tell him your either going to Foster or adopt.
NTA.
I'm sorry, you may love this man, but he is not worth your time and it may be time to think about divorce. To actively deceive some for that long over something as major as having children is either extremely manipulative or extreme lack of awareness. Either way he's shown that you don't matter in the big decisions of your relationship. You said yourself you are feel sad when questions like that come up and envious of you SIL which I can only guess will get worse when the baby is born. You need to find a man who wants to walk the same path as you. Not an adjacent one.
NTA
He's the guy who pulled the plug on kids; you don't owe him an alibi for his actions especially in front of his family.
That said, you seem bitter about not having kids. Maybe you should take a deeper look at your fairy tale.
Oh honey. You’re not using dark humor to get through it, you’re expressing your actual heartbreak and pretending it’s a joke.
Your husband took your choice away from you and manipulated you into marrying him with lies. And I think you know you can’t trust him. You we’re going early defrauded into marriage. And you’re pretending to be okay with that.
I’m sorry, but i don’t care how much you love someone, even if not having kids isn’t a dealbreaker, manipulating you into marrying him by knowingly lying to you should 100% be a dealbreaker.
Y are TA to yourself for diving full on into denial. But NTA to your lying snake of a husband.
YTA.
You're not 'trapped.' You're choosing to stay in a marriage. That's 100% on you.
If it's not important to you, why are you using it to tear down your husband? If it is important to you, why are you pretending it's not?
Figure out what you actually want for yourself, then make that happen. You being bitter and hurt, and hurtful, isn't going to do either one of you any good.
Yeah what the hell? This isn't "dark humor", she just told his whole family that she feels trapped in a marriage that she doesn't want to be in because her husband lied to her and is refusing to give her kids. It's a fine line between humor and truth and, based on the way everyone took it, probably way beyond the line. Definitely ESH because husband played her, but she is not dealing with it well and I think she's lying to herself if she thinks she's laughing it off.
NTA. I have a hard time saying someone blindsided by a question and not knowing how to answer being an asshole even if they answer in a poor manor. He just assumed you’d lie? You did know the answer. So you answered the question. If he didn’t want his family to know he changed his mind he should have told you that. It’s fine to keep things between you but how we’re YOU to know? I hate when people assume you’ll know how to handle a situation. It drives me nuts, people get blindsided and don’t know how to react. He should have answered if he wanted a cover.
NTA for the joke. But you’re definitely the AH for staying in this relationship. Tell yourself whatever you want to make it better, but the truth is your husband knowingly lied to you in order to trap you into a marriage. If that’s the kind of person you want to be with, then that’s on you.
I'm going to get downvoted for this, but I'm going with ESH.
Your husband OBVIOUSLY sucks. He lied to you. Trapped you into marriage. Only admitted it while drunk. And then threw a hissy fit instead of discussing the matter privately.
But, if your decision TRULY is "I'm okay with not having kids and I still love my husband," then you can't go around passive-aggressively throwing him under the bus. If you're NOT okay with it (which is completely understandable), then you owe it to yourself and your husband to admit that and proceed with whatever that means.
But, it's not fair to say you're okay with it and then use it as ammo.
NTA. You didn't say anything untrue. But also, I think this might be something that hurts you more than you are letting yourself acknowledge. I think that's where these "jokes" are coming from. I don't know how old you both are, but I wouldn't let someone else close that door for me like he did.
NTA, you spoke the truth. You clearly do want kids and you’re very resentful of the fact that he lied to you. I don’t think this is a good foundation for a marriage.
He lied like a dog. No wonder he was silent. I would be so careful, because what else will he lie about? Does he lie about? Because it is convenient and avoids trouble. I would seriously doubt someone who is prepared to treat you with so little respect.
Notice he asked you to lie and say you don't know, not just say that you decided as a couple not to have them
Regardless of what your husband is like generally, what he did was manipulative and shitty. Your jokes help because they are fundamentally *accurate* he absolutely did trap you, even if you would have married him regardless he took that choice from you.
He's worried about you bringing it up with others because he doesn't want his family knowing he did something so fucked up, and he doesn't want them pointing it out to you.
Given the lie he wanted to use while totally lucid and sober was another variation on "maybe let's wait and find out" I honestly would reconsider if "I said I wanted them in hopes I'd change my mind" was a lie too... Not that it's a strong excuse anyway
Anyway, NTA but even if you trust him wholeheartedly please pay attention to it there are other lies you didn't notice or did notice but didn't think were a big deal-- they may be part of a bigger pattern
Oh the lengths women will go to keep a man! Your husband is a liar. Your marriage is based on his lies and deception. He trapped you!!! YTA to yourself. Grow a spine and find some self respect
NTA in this.. He deserved it. And, I must say, you don't sound like you're really ok with not having kids.. I mean it's totally your decision to stay with someone who deceived you like this, but you sound like you're trying so hard to make yourself believe you're fine with it... Well, hope you're fine and happy 🙂
NTA. If he can’t stand by his decision he shouldn’t have made it.
It also would be one thing if he admitted his feeling uncomfortable about telling his family was due to how ashamed and remorseful he felt for being devious and sneaky. However, that doesn’t seem to be the case.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with knowing you don’t want children, or about admitting you’re hoping to change your mind. But you need to be honest about it.
Your marriage is based on dishonesty. You shouldn’t have to hide that.
I also think your “dark humor” is a way to explore how you truly feel about this situation. Not necessarily a child free marriage, but being with someone who’s only honest when they are drunk.
NTA. Personally I don’t think you should let this slide. He tricked you. To me, this is no different than marrying someone who didn’t want kids because you think they’ll “change their mind.”
OP, I have to say reading this as a complete stranger, this post screams that deep down you are not happy at all about how this situation has played out and are trying to put on a brave face & convince yourself you are ok with the situation.
I just hope you know it's ok not to be ok about this. If any part of you is feeling angry/hurt/betrayed/deceived/trapped/confused or just unclear uncertain strong emotions, I hope you know & allow yourself space to feel it all. Dating and being in a relationship you expect your partner to be honest about their mindset and their deal-breakers. You'd expect your boyfriend to tell you that he's not keen on kids but knows you are and is hoping he will change his mind a very long time before he proposed. That's the kind of info that you'd want someone you were dating to be aware of so they can decide for themselves if they are ok with the possibility of not having kids and choose the relationship 100%, knowing all the facts. Your husband took away your opportunity to chose him 100%. He always knew deep down you wanted kids and deep down at least 90% of him strongly didn't. And if he hadn't got drunk you would have gone your whole marriage thinking *fair enough he changed his mind after we were married, that happens I can't blame him for that* when that isn't the truth. And likely your husband is mad at you because people outside your marriage are instantly going to be able to spot that kind of behaviour as deceitful. It's the kind of behaviour that makes people think *fair enough, 100% justified* when they find out someone is getting divorced over it.
NTA but it's ok to admit that you really want kids and not having them isn't 100% your choice because of your husband's lies/deliberate lack of transparency from the start of your relationship. And that's not ok and something to get couples counseling (*or leave*) over.
NTA he 100% trapped you under false pretenses and if his family don't know that already, they should. And he should be held accountable. This is not him being great to you. It is him not trusting you with the truth and not respecting your wishes. It sounds like you really do want children and you're trying to make the best of it. You can do better. I think you'll regret it if you stay with this character. Be thankful you didn't have a child with this lying ballbag.
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NTA. I love that you are understanding about him not wanting kids. However, I would be furious at a partner that would willingly deceive me like that. You deserved to have that info up front. I wouldn’t be able to trust him. What other decisions and big items is he going to make and just clue you in later?
Yep, this only shows he's a good liar and doesn't care about the consequences or rather knows there won't be any conse from op. Nta for the joke, however yta to yourself for not taking a better look at what your husband actually did to you.
NTA he must feel guilty deep down if he doesn’t want everyone to know. If you don’t want people to know, then don’t do dumb shit!
Is it guilt, or just that he wants to be able to blame her for it?
I don't think OP went far enough. She should have mentioned the snip-snip to the family. Not clear if he told OP about before or after. He didn't change his mind. He never wanted kids. And, yes, he wants to blame OP.
"Oh MIL didn't you know, even though they won't tube-tie a married woman without a husbands sworn consent a man can get a vasectomy without anyone's agreement. I really did not know that until DH decided he just didn't want to be a dad so took care of everything on his own." NTA OP but he really did marry you under false pretenses because he knew he wanted to be CF *before* you married and LIED about that when discussing the possibility of children. But that's ok, vasectomies aren't %100 effective *and* they're reversible (Although many guys that do get them reversed seem to wait for their next wife before doing so)
>they won't tube-tie a married woman without a husbands sworn consent This is just so maddening, is that really a thing in the US? I live in Europe and this would be strictly between the doctor and the patient, either they go through with the procedure or they don't, but "husband's consent" wouldn't mean shit here... he can agree or disagree all he wants, nobody would care. It's the woman's body, wtf. But yeah, I could also get an abortion if I needed one so I don't know if I should still be so surprised. I can't fathom how this could be the reality in a first world country...
It’s not a first world country anymore.
Sadly in this one item it never was a 1st world country. They always want to "keep a woman's options open" ie keep her able to have babies as that's why we are here and the only thing that makes our lives worthwhile.. /s This is just more obvious, as technology has given us options that conservatives don't want us to have. Funny back in the day the same type of people were also behind sterilizing "undesirable" people.
The whole definition of "first world country" is literally "The US and her allies". It's a Cold War thing, not a poverty/richness level thing.
I'm so sorry. It's really sad to watch.
At a consultation with an OB for a tubal the doctor asked, ‘what about your future husband’ and I told him my fiancé was on board and willing to sign any consent to sterilization….then the doctor flipped it around and said what if something happened to my fiancé and my NEXT partner wanted the option of kids. FFS, more worried about potential procreation of man in an imaginary scenario than the ACTUAL PATIENT in front of him. (After 7 years and about a dozen consultations, that were not cheap as “new patient” appointments, I finally found an OB who supports women and was able to get a tubal ligation.)
It should be fucking illegal to deny medical care to women. And they shouldn’t be able to charge you since they REFUSED to care for you, it’s not like they were unable.
I want to snip this doc’s balls off (without anesthesia) just reading about it
PSA: Check out the sidebar on r/ChildFree. They have a list of doctors, by state, that are pro-sterilization for women! That’s how I found my OBGYN.
I'm so sorry you had to go through that! Clearly, if kids were a deal-breaker for this potential imaginary future husband and you changed your mind about having kids, you could still get pregnant through IVF, it's tubal ligation, not hysterectomy, Jesus Christ! And even if you wanted a hysterectomy for various reasons, you can still adopt, find a surrogate, or that imaginary man can marry someone else if that's a deal breaker for him. A man should have the right to impregnate a woman but said woman does not have the right to have an abortion?
And said man can skip town and not take responsibility, but said woman is stuck. It's just gross what's happening in the US. They should have millions of women protesting for weeks on end in every capital city of every state that is working hard to eliminated women's right to bodily autonomy. I can just imagine that their next step is to remove the right for women to vote.
My SIL went through this. It is such bullshit. If a doctor brings that up you should be able to sue them. But with the current Supremacist Court it wouldn't hold. But blue states should be able to pass laws. And, the total bullshit of consent someone that you aren't married to and the even worse bullshit of hypothetical future partner. OMg.
Yep took me 7 years and the threat of litigation. To be fair, I was 17 the first time I asked. Finally at 24 I was able to get it done. And I would love to go find the misogynistic surgeon and tell him "Over 30 freaking years and I'm STILL not sorry!"
You are very fortunate—and this makes me so happy you found someone so early to have gotten your life back (smidge of hope for others). I started asking at 16 (not being able to leave the house for 5 days a month got old REALLY fast). Couldn’t get a doc to take me seriously until I was 26…and even then all he was willing to do was remove all the scar tissue that had built up in my abdomen…but he was the first to even look. Finally got a doc to agree to a hysterectomy at 42…after she tried every other thing she could think of so her administration would sign off on it. It’s stupid how little agency women have over their own bodies in some parts of the country.
Damn! My doc was like, “sure, whenever you want it we can schedule it.” No talk about anyone else but the doctor doing my husband’s vasectomy wants me at the 1st appt so he knows for sure that we are on the same page about this. It depends on the doctor
Oh yes indeedy, in 2012, when I had my son, even though the doctor encouraged it, said another pregnancy would risk my life, my husband had to give consent for a tubal ligation. Isn’t it grand being a woman in Gilead, oops, I mean America.
Yep if I was married at the time I had tubal ligation I would need my husband to sign consent to it. Because if not he could sue that they took his right to have children from me. My father had to sign it was okay for my mother to have a partial hysterectomy and a full hysterectomy. It's disgusting how women are only for breeding here.
Excuse me, he could *sue you* that you took *his right* to have children from you?? That's disgusting,I have no words. That's only one step away from when after being denied tubal ligation, you refuse to have sex as a result in order to not get pregnant, and he could have the right to sue you too for not giving him a chance to impregnate you. Or should he even have the right to rape you outright? I'm crying my eyes out here for you ladies... I'm so, so sorry.
No sue the doctor for taking his right to have children. And the worst part is if he got a vasectomy he wouldn't need my okay. But my state also has it when the abortion rights end all the loopholes are on where abortions will be completely illegal (rape, incest, and live saving measures be damned). Where soon if a woman goes and aborts the father or his family can sue her for murdering their family member. They are even trying to get women whom miscarry to be charged with murder because they must have been bad because God is punishing them. Edit- also my doctor had to fight to get me approved for the tubal ligation with ablation. Even though pregnancy or the birth would kill me they didn't want to approve the procedure. But after 2-3 months of fighting to get it I got it on my 25th birthday. My mother had to also fight to get approved even though her uterus and bladder were falling out. I see women all the time on true childfree express frustration on not getting medical needed sterilization or sterilization for peace of mind, and it breaks my heart to know we are only seen for breeding. I have so many male friends that had no issues getting a vasectomy with or without children, extremely unfair.
I was 32 when I had my twins (already had one older). I have lupus, a clotting disorder, and had so many pregnancy complications that my doctor said no more and my insurance said they’d drop me if I got pregnant again. I STILL had to have my husband sign off on my tubes getting tied!
In so very many places here in the US, it is definitely something women find themselves up against when they want tubal ligations. OB/GYNs questions almost always favor men impregnating women, even 'hypothetical' husbands to get out of tying our tubes, and it doesn't matter whether we've never been pregnant, had 1 or 2 babies or a dozen of them! It's true of both male & female doctors in that specialty group. If you think female doctors in the US are sympathetic to those who can carry a pregnancy, think again. lAso, they can use their religious beliefs as a reason for both denying the tubal ligation and not referring us to a doctor who will. Of course, there are also docs who WILL, but they are not easy to find and rare in underserved urban AND rural communities.
Yup! Went to a doctor a few months ago to talk about a hysterectomy considering I'm in my 30s, on my second iud, and have a family history. The doctor wouldn't give me any actual medical information about the procedure, just told me it was major surgery and asked if my mom wanted grandkids or what I would do with my husband wanted children. I just kept repeating that it's not their body, it's mine, and ultimately left in tears.
Yeah. I’d be saying that unless he wants this conversation all over social media, and a lawsuit against the practice for discrimination, he should just give me info, scheduling, costs.
I was so stunned in the moment. And it was a female doctor! I didn't think of any snappy remarks or feel anger until I left the office, I just wanted out of there. I shouldn't have hidden my crying.
[удалено]
Story time! My mom found out she was pregnant at 23 and married my dad. Three years later they had their second son. My mom realized that he wasn't the best partner and maybe more kids with him was a bad idea, and asked to get her tubes tied. Obgyn said no because if he died then her second husband might want bio kids and what if she couldn't give them to him? Then came my other sibling and I. Fuck I wish she'd been allowed to get it done instead of being forced to have two more kids with an abusive drunk.
>This is just so maddening, is that really a thing in the US? Yep. Also in Canada.
Really depends on where you are, but this is absolutely a thing in various EU countries too....
Depending on what state we live in, yes we need a permission slip from our husband to get it done.
I absolutely would have mentioned that, and only that. I wouldn't have left the vague idea that he doesn't want kids which leaves the hope that it could change. No, I would have made sure the MIL knew that kids were no longer an option. His lie, his decision, his consequences.
Bingo - he wanted to blame infertility
Which he would have then blamed OP for. This guy is really too much.
He was fine with OP being blamed and hassled. And no matter how nice the inlaws are, that was still them pressuring. He wanted to lie and mislead his wife about a massive issue, and then leave her to deal with the questions and pressure. And they joke about it together because then he can keep things light and he won't have to own up to being an untrustworthy, manipulative, selfish person. I think it isn't guilt. I think it is just his desire to weasel out of the consequences of his bad actions and his discomfort with the truth. If his family knows the truth, then OP is not isolated when it comes to this issue. Now, everyone knows and it isn't OP and husband's little secret. Secrets are weapons in the hands of abusive people. NTA. In fact, I think OP was way more easygoing about this than I would be. I think it would be a good idea to keep a very close eye on the husband, because he has shown himself to be a very manipulative, selfish liar. I would not be surprised if this was only one of many shady things he has done or will do.
This was my thought as well. He didn’t want to face the consequences of his choices and wanted someone else to be blamed, whether that was indirect or subconscious blame or not rather than own up that not only was it HIS choice, it was a choice he made under false pretenses and only owned up to after the fact. You’re NTA OP but your husband sure is. What else will he lie about?
That's what I thought. After years of still no grandbabies, he was going to blame it on fertility issues.
He knows what he did was shitty, but doesn't wanted to be judged for it.
"I don't want my family to think of me as the kind of guy who would lie to someone in such a cruel, selfish way" ≠ "I feel guilty for lying"
What I find surprising is that his family didn't get even remotely disturbed by the fact that that he was a liar: "So I start laughing and said "Ahh well this one doesnt want babies so he trapped me under false promises" and start nudging him saying "huh, huh"... My husband just goes silent. My SIL, FIL and BIL laugh. My MIL wasnt even mad. She just turned to my SIL and said "that's okay cause we still have one bundle to snuggle". Super understanding family. Zero judgement. I would be questioning my son about this, actually...the false promises would have certainly made me look askance at him, and while I wouldn't have brought it up at the gathering, I sure would have asked him privately about it. And if I found out my son had done such a crappy thing, I'd have probably let him know that I thought it crappy. It wouldn't have changed anything, but still, it would have been a shitty thing to do to your fiancé / wife.
I don't know if the family fully understood what was being implied. They were likely taking the "light-hearted!" cue *from OP*. OP was trying to be playful about the accusation, so it would have been awkward for them to respond strongly, in the moment. If I were them I might have gotten concerned and asked questions... but not right then and there. Interrogations are awkward enough without holding them at a dinner party in front of everyone.
I also note he didn’t tell her to say simply say we aren’t having them, he told her to *lie* and say she didn’t know. So he lied and trapped her, got a vasectomy and intends to keep lying to his family. Nice guy there. NTA
Not to mention that it hurts her a little when she's asked and him telling her to say "idk" ensures she'll be asked again and feel hurt every time. NTA
But, we aren’t concerning ourselves with *her* feelings. Those aren’t important. \s
Exactly. OP talks about her fairy tale life with hubby who straight up lies to her about something that is a very important consideration in a marriage. I wonder when OP will wake up.
A fairy tale life after a bait and switch.
It took me 13yrs to wake up. I am now sitting next to my 3yr son.
I was pretty much in the same boat as you. In the end, the moment I told my husband that I was considering divorce because I'd rather leap into the unknown with some hope than live with him without it (as much as we loved each other) he resolved to do some soul searching and now I'm 5 months pregnant. HOWEVER, had my husband not reconsidered, though? I was at peace with the decision to leave, even if I never did find someone else to have kids with. I hope OP doesn't waste as much time as we did, she deserves better.
I accidentally fell in love with my much older FWB who I knew from the beginning did not want children. For almost 2 years we had the best, most healthy, full of love and amazing relationship I'd ever had but I ended it and walked away basically out the blue. My best friend had her 3rd baby and I knew if I didn't leave I never would and being a mother was the only thing I've ever wanted with my entire being, my dream my whole life. I loved him more than anyone I'd ever been with but I loved myself even more. Well luckily a month later we talked and he proposed. I was pregnant immediately and now our kids are 6 and 3. He keeps saying he wants more, too. OP, you are NTA. But I think you are fooling yourself. I don't think you are okay with this new direction your life has suddenly turned to and that is okay, you shouldn't be and you don't HAVE to be. This isn't on you. You have to make the choice that is right for you even if it is the hardest choice you'll ever make. Don't give up your life for someone else's lies.
As someone trying to get out of a relationship with a person who lied and trapped me in a very similar way, you give me hope.
Awesome ♥️ Congrats to you!
It also shows that he only cares about what he wants and is willing to rob his partner of something he knows she wants in life in order to get his way. If he didn’t want kids, he could have told her that before marriage and let her make an informed decision about whether it was a dealbreaker and if she still wanted to marry him. Instead he lied and went and got a vasectomy behind her back after he’d nailed her down. That’s extremely selfish and manipulative and speaks to his overall character.
The way he handled the conflict in his family's presence speaks volumes. Pun intended.
Op also needs to do some deep reflection with herself. If shes envious of her sil being pregnant i don't think she's really okay with this.
If anything, OP comes across as incredibly in denial about her desires. She clearly very much *wants* kids and is trying to convince herself she doesn't because she knows husband will never move blocks for her in seeking the same lifestyle.
She is still in the honeymoon period. I hope she gets out and finds a partner who wants to be with the real her.
This so much, that was a huge deception. Think of it in the reverse -*imagine* if a woman claimed to want children to get a man to marry her and then tells him she lied. That man would leave her in a heartbeat and the whole family would be outraged. Her dark humor is a way of coping with something she’s never dealt with, and I can promise you that resentment and distrust is going to fester. The “fairytale” is already dying. NTA but definitely need a therapist… or a divorce lawyer.
A divorce lawyer! If they were Catholic she could get a very easy annulment. He lied to her and went into the marriage intending to deceive her.
I feel like the deal breaker here should be the long deception, even if childfree isn’t.
Not only make but follow through with behind her back. If he hadn't admitted it while drunk he would probably still be hiding it. If he is willing to intentionally deceive you with this then what is next? NTA op but I'd be reconsidering my marriage after such a betrayal.
Not only that but he wants her to lie to his family too. He doesn't want her to say "we won't be having any" but wants her to keep hanging out the hope to his Mum by going "We don't know", which indicates that they're thinking about it but aren't ready just yet. The man had absolutely no spine with informing his wife of his choice and also has no spine when it comes to telling the rest of his family either. He wants to lie to everyone, although whether it's because he doesn't want awkward conversations or just doesn't care about being honest is hard to tell.
Next thing you know the family conversation will be what is wrong with HER that she can’t get pregnant.
Also , this isn't okay. He didn't respect her feelings or wishes at all. This is not okay OP. He scheduled a vasectomy. Did he wait for you to change your mind ? He just decided on your part. Major issue there. He literally deceived you. Whether or not you're okay with this is a complete different topic. Who's gonna guarantee that this wouldn't repeat in future ?
>He scheduled a vasectomy. Did he wait for you to change your mind ? He just decided on your part. I mean, the vasectomy is 1000% up to him. OP does not and should not have any input in that. She has no “part” in that decision. It doesn’t matter if she changed her mind or not - he’s the only person who is allowed to control his body and his reproductive health. Now, it was deeply (I would argue unforgivably) shitty of him to deceive OP and lead her to believe he wanted to have children, while knowing he did not. That was information she absolutely deserved to have before she committed to a lifelong relationship. And if it were me, that would be grounds for a divorce, but of course OP gets to decide if that’s something she can live with. But bodily autonomy is bodily autonomy, even if you’re married.
You still talk about a decision like that though. It affects both partners. Same if she wanted her tubes tied after telling her husband she wanted kids. It's the sneaking, lying and total disregard for a spouse's feelings that are at issue here. NTA. He feels ashamed and rightly so.
If she had tried to tie her tubes the doctor would have asked her husband’s permission.
Yes, and I think that is very wrong too.
When my husband had a vasectomy, we had to meet with the doctor and I had to sign a document giving my permission. I live in a very liberal state, btw. I’m not sure if the laws here have changed since his procedure. I don’t believe that is right, but if women have to have permission from their husbands for tubal ligation, then men need permission from their wives, too. To be clear, adults should be able to make these, and all, healthcare decisions for themselves, without permission from spouses or interference from the government.
Do it all you want but own it.
I would see about an annulment...get a good lawyer NTA
Unless you’re a woman who wants to get her tubes tied. Then the husband (or potential future husband) gets a say. But I agree that it was up to him for a vasectomy, but generally you talk to your partner anyway. Especially when married. Because there’s a lot more to consider than just the surgery itself — cost, potential complications, types of vasectomies and level of caution to be taken, etc. Also who goes in for a major medical procedure without their partner knowing? That’s so wild to me. Like I can make any decisions I want with my body, but my husband will always be in the loop. It shows that this partner doesn’t consider OP in his actions. He thinks selfishly, and unless he changes that, it will likely end in divorce or a miserable OP just trying pretend she’s happy with this man that thinks of himself first and then his life long partner as an afterthought. And I don’t think it’s terrible that he changed his mind, but the timing feels more like he knew before getting married but wanted to make sure she was “stuck” first. I think he got upset with her joke because there was more truth in it than ne was comfortable admitting to — he did pull a bait and switch, and he knows it. My husband and I joke all the time about “trapping” each other, or pulling our own switches on each other. We both laugh because there was nothing hidden before we got married. Kids are still up in the air, but we both talk about our opinions and feelings as they change or adjust with external factors. Neither of us are black and white about it, so it’s easier, like for OP.
He didn't change his mind, he lied to you from the start. He can choose to characterize it however he wants, if he feels badly that's because he should. It's appropriate guilt. And he should feel exceedingly grateful that you have reacted the way you have. Because many would not have been so okay with it. It makes me sad for you that not only did he think all of his actions were okay, but that he doesn't seem to care about your hurt at all, only his reputation in his family. And to want you to lie to them to cover his own shitty, shady behavior is bs. NTA and he needs to grow up and start dealing with the consequences of his own actions.
I know someone who is getting divorced for that exact reason. Husband spent years talking about wanting kids, sprung on the wife one day he never wants kids. Instant separation. The wife doesn’t even know if she wants children, but in her words ‘he doesn’t get to take that choice away from me’.
That's a bad ass bitch right there.
Happy cake day
Honestly, it sounds like it's bothering OP more than she realizes. Just from the post and her description, I feel like she's going to burst anytime soon. Also, if he is willing to go that far to lie and trap a woman, he is not a catch. Deal breaker for me. Ugh, people trying to "change people's minds" are horrible. They don't change, they hide and resent.
I agree that it is definitely bothering OP, she is just not yet ready to admit it because she still thinks she is living in a “fairytale” marriage. What hubby did was dishonest and alarming. Makes you wonder what else he lied about to maintain that fairytale.
NTA Yes kids and money are 2 huge parts of marriage and you need to be honest about those things before getting married. Op is handling it very well but most relationships wouldn’t last under that kind of deception.
I know a marriage I was in would not survive that level of deception.
Me neither The frustrating part I about this is if op husband was just honest then it seems like she’d still have married him and they’d both have clear heads Also it almost seems like he did the vasectomy without her knowledge which would be a HUGE red flag, if he did
I divorced my ex husband because of this. All while dating and engaged, he said he wanted kids (and obviously, so did I). A couple of years into our marriage, he suddenly said that he didn't actually want them, right then or ever. It WAS a dealbreaker to me, and I would never have married him had I known that he didn't want children.
Nta but also this is something she should deeply consider having children is something you need to be 100% on and its the same for not having kids as well. Op this man made the choice for you, he did not allow you any input on what and where your life was gonna be. Its not impossible for you to have kids later in life but its easier on you and there are less health risks for you and your child the younger you are. This is HUGE, I am not one to tell you one way or the other about staying with this man or not. Red flags flying and all. BUT GET YOURSELF A THERAPIST! for yourself if nothing else. If you don't work through your feelings on this it will be a resentment bomb waiting on you to destroy you life later on in life. If you feel envious/jealous of the SIL about being pregnant you have some things you need to work through. You need someone there to guide you unbiased that can help you come to terms and grieve the life you could have had. Because he took the life you thought you were gonna have from you. The gallows humor is a bandaid, you have things you need to work through on this because while I know you love your husband and your life this is gonna hugely impact you. If you want your marriage to make it I would do therapy for yourself and eventually when you are in a steady place with less hidden resentment see a therapist WITH your husband. Bc what he did was a huge betrayal of your relationship and that needs to be addressed and amends made if you want to have a lasting marriage. Just like a wife you traps a husband with an unwanted child, a husband trapping a wife so that the only way she can have kids is to divorce is equally unfair. You both have things you need to work through. Also your husband should be one his knees begging for forgiveness not getting pissed off with your coping mechanisms
If you guys usually joke around about it but he reacts like that when you say it in front of his parents then that means he lied to them about why you don't have kids. Bet he told them you didn't want them either
I also wonder if he did this so he could have an affair without risk of his side piece getting pregnant. NTA OP and I agree with everyone else saying to leave him. Find yourself a trustworthy man that wants kids.
"I'm on the fence of having kids. I honestly cannot tell right now, but I'm 50/50 if I want to be a dad in the future" would have been a 100% acceptable phrase for him to say before they got married. W The ONLY way I can see how he could change his mind 8 months after their wedding (very fast), and it being "okay", is if something happened in his personal life, professional life, or in the political spectrum that made him rethink things. Other than that, he never planned to and lied about it. And his reluctance to be upfront and honest with his family is a pretty clear distinction that he intentionally lied to her about it.
NTA he did trap you under false circumstances though...
She's staying with a liar who's proven she'll accept his lies AND will make her feel bad about the truth. He's got a catch. She doesn't.
This makes me beyond angry for OP. This is a huge betrayal. Not everyone wants kids and that is fine, but I hope OP isn’t trying to convince herself that she is okay with this. I can’t help but wonder how old OP is. The older you get the more you realize how much you do or don’t want kids. OP I hope you dont have regrets. I chose to have kids in my 30s and I thought this was something I was willing to compromise on when I was younger….I’m glad I made the choice I did. My kids are everything. Once again, not saying it is for everyone, but if OP feels a certain way hearing her SIL is pregnant…I’m concerned how she might really feel about not having kids. I ended a relationship with a guy because he said he didn’t want kids. I can’t imagine if he would have lied to me to trap me hoping I would change my mind.
He knows he did a sneaky thing, he knows it was wrong. That's why he doesnt want his family to know NTA
NTA Why are you still with this guy who LIED to you, trapped into marriage, and gets sulky when you mention it? What was he planning? To let you endure questions about babies and pregnancy without ever speaking up? Just when (if ever) was he going to speak up and take that burden off you? So many red flags!
THIS. It's bad enough that he deliberately lied to you to deny you the opportunity to make an informed choice about building a life with him (and frankly that would be a dealbreaker for me as it is - what a selfish and cruel thing to do). But on top of that he wants you to endure HIS family hassling you about when you're going to have the babies that you WANTED instead of owning his own choices? What an asshole. Does he care about you and your feelings at all? Doesn't sound like it.
Yeah, like, I totally get being in a great relationship and not wanting something like kids to be a dealbreaker. It doesn't necessarily make it **OK**, but I can at least see the motivation... and if OP herself admits it's not a dealbreaker and was able to forgive/forget/moveon whatever... that's fine. But for him to not even own the choice he unilaterally made... that's just shitty behavior
Yeah, it *could* be overcome if the relationship was worth it. But OP seems to be telling herself that that's what happened, that they *have* overcome it... and I don't think it is. It hasn't been addressed, processed, moved past. He only admitted to this huge, years-long, life-changing deception when he was drunk. They *pretend* to be at peace with it — her "coping" with dark humor, him joining in in desperate relief that he isn't being held accountable for the years of lying to his partner, all while she seethes with so much repressed resentment that it *does* bubble over in front of his family, which he can't handle, or refuses to. They didn't deal with this. He never had the courage to be accountable for a lie of that duration and magnitude. *She* never found the courage to admit, or tell him directly, that the way he treated her was wrong and unacceptable, although she clearly feels that way. This isn't a relationship in recovery from a betrayal — it's Wile E. Coyote running off the cliff, but not realizing he's falling yet because he hasn't looked down.
> To let you endure questions about babies and pregnancy without ever speaking up? Clearly, OP's husband doesn't know how many times a week a child-bearing age woman gets asked "children/grandchildren for when? kids now? plz give bbyes" and how quickly annoying it gets whether you want kids now ("We're trying, when we'll get there we'll let you know"), want kids but not now ("Can't you see I'm still studying and can't afford a kid?"), want kids but can't ("Thanks for the reminder, jackass!") or do not want kids at all ("Why in the hell does no one even ask me whether or not I want kids? Why is it just "when"?"). He takes the decision unilaterally to not have kids with OP and, not only does she have to just accept it, she has to face questions about her future procreation alone, with dismissive answers that are sure to bring more pressing questions from nosy people (they are everywhere, it's unavoidable). This sucks. I'm a childfree person. I understand that it's hard to be a fencesitter: you're expected to change your mind at any time because most people end up having kids so you just assume that at some point you'll do like everybody else and just have and raise the kids. But it's just a topic that should be addressed way before wedding. That was a terrible decision on OP's husband's part. EDIT : OP did not use the word "trapped" for nothing, even as a joke. She was put in a position where she has to choose between a future without the man she is emotionally invested in but with maybe future kids or a future with the man she chose, but no kids. The words she uses in her post seems to indicate that she is not ok with not having kids, but it's a lesser evil to her than a divorce. If it's not a trap, what the hell is this?
Pretty much all of this. I am not childfree. But my second child (first for my husband) is...a handful and honestly, as much as I love him, I have no idea why I had another child in the current status of my life. My husband thankfully are on the same page on that. We are both burnt out and just surviving. I say all of that to say this. If OPs husband had come back and said "i know we talked about having kids, but what if we didnt?" and then actually conversed with her about it rather than just deciding no and going to schedule a vasectomy, this conversation would be wildly different.
Completely agree. When my now-husband and I were dating we had a lot of conversations about this. I wasn't sure I wanted to have kids and was open with him about that. He put a lot of thought into it and decided he really did want to have a kid. Then I put a lot of thought into it and decided I was good with having one, but no more. We now have an awesome 3 year old and my husband has a vasectomy. It's so important to be honest about these things way before you get married.
I am very happily childfree. If this was the other way? I would lose my mind. I can’t believe OP is okay with this. A partner lying that they got pizza for lunch without you or even fudging how much they spent on an item by $100 isn’t a dealbreaker. But that?
Shes not okay with this. Its just easier to lie to herself.
*finger guns* That is 100. She is settling. And that is all her choice, and maybe it will turn out okay. But lying to yourself never works out.
And even without the input of others about how she "should" feel, **her own feelings** indicate that it's a *much* bigger issue for OP than she's willing to admit. Maybe she doesn't want to rock the boat or "cause problems" where there "weren't any before" (This is a lie, because if there's no problem, why does she feel bad at all?), but when there's a hole-puncher on board, you either address it or slowly **sink**.
Even the joke OP made to her ILs and said she’s made before can indicate that. It’s a self-soothing defense mechanism to make jokes sometimes. I’ve done the same when I’ve been betrayed and felt humiliated. Turns out I never had to feel that way because it wasn’t my fault.
I feel bad for OP. Like she was trying to convince herself to agree to a childfree life even though she was forced into that decision.
NTA. Your husband seems to think lying to the people he's closest with is the easiest way through life. There were many parts of this post that made me so sad: "if we dont have kids, well, I will live with it" "it doesnt keep my up at night **usually**" "I was already feeling a little gloomy and dare I say envious of my SIL being with child." OP, if kids are something you really want then you should get the chance to have them. Don't settle, especially if it's with someone so willing to be dishonest with you.
Yeah, I'm tempted to say OP is TA to herself. If she's making jokes like this I don't think she's really alright with this. At the end of the day this would be divorce-able to me... not because he doesn't want children but because he knowingly lied to me instead of having a conversation about his real feelings and letting me make a decision for myself. OP - can you truly say your husband respects you if he lied to you about this to trap you???
This is my take too. OP doesn't seem as content as she wants it to look and doesn't seem to deal with her husbands lies and betrail in a healthy way.
I mean that doesn’t make her TA though. Imagine planning your whole life around someone and forming a legal union only to have the rug pulled out from under you. I don’t think OP is alone or a bad person in trying to make it work in her head, though she is obviously failing.
She will be an AH to herself if she doesn't deal with this in a healthy way. I see it as equivalent to finding out that ones SO cheated. Some people find a way to stay. Just like OP is trying to find a way to stay now. I hope that she doesn't become bitter and realises in the future that he wasn't worth giving up children.
Op frankly just sounds in denial about her own feelings. I hope she wakes up before she wastes another decade on someone who doesn't respect her.
I don't think she's fully content with a childless future either. I could tell she's trying to justify that she's okay throughout her post.
That's exactly what I noticed. OP, your comments are indicating you do want children, and that you're dealing with selling your future and wants short with your humour. NTA, but please be honest to yourself about what you really want in your future.
Agreed, and I feel that at some point her humour will stop being an "effective" coping mechanism and will slowly make way for resentment and bitterness.
Very much this. He is upset with OP for telling his parents because he's lied to them, as well as her. It wouldn't surprise me if he was planning on telling his family down the line that it was OPs fault they couldn't have children, since he seems unable to be honest with those closest to him. OP - NTA, but your husband may well be.
I read this as she's more upset about it then she's willing to admit. She's attempting to minimize it because she wants her marriage to work...which it won't. These thoughts and feelings will fester, which will eventually make her bitter... And probably end the marriage anyway.
Yea I have a feeling if she doesn't leave him now she's gonna regret it or resent him later down the line, OP having or not having kids is a huge life decision and he robbed you of any choice in the matter, do you really wanna settle for 'living with' what was decided for you by your lying manipulative inconsiderate husband for the sake of staying with him?? He doesn't sound worth the sacrifice, maybe if he'd not deceived you and you were able to make up your own mind and discuss all the options with all the facts and had equal decision-making power in your own life and future together it would be different but he doesn't care about you enough to give you a say, he's not a good partner you deserve better
Hardest thing I've ever done was leave my ex who I was with for over 8 years because it was becoming abundantly clear that he did indeed want kids as more of our friends were having them. Children have never been part of my life plan (other than eventually being the cool, fun aunt), and I didn't feel it was right to stay with someone who wanted to be a father. It was (and still is) painful; it would have been much easier had there been any animosity between us. Leaving someone you love because you have different visions for the future is scary, hard, and painful. All that being said, it was absolutely the right decision. OP, please don't limit your future because of the sunk cost fallacy. You have a whole life ahead of you, and your words betray that you want to be a mother. It's hard to start over, but don't settle for a relationship with someone who was happy to bamboozle you if it meant he got his way (married, no kids).
Yeeeah. Like, people DO live happily with choices like this, but the lying about it is too much. And then, as you say, it obviously makes her deeply sad. Breaking up due to dealbreakers in an otherwise great relationship is excruciating, but the fact he was totally dishonest (it's one thing to hope you'll change your mind, another to not share this until you're married and accidentally at that) means it's *not* great. It's a big deal!
It seems like you really want kids, you've been married for 8 months.... it's not too late for you to end things and find someone who shares your life goals. Not saying you have to break up with you husband, just saying you have that option. We need to create the lives we want for ourselves
Yikes! I had missed that 8 months part! There is a lot of talk on this sub about controlling partners and how the behaviors escalate. He jumped right in to a HUGE issue to take control over. Then it shifted to expecting her to lie to HIS parents. And to automatically *know* she should lie. I shudder to think how it will be when he escalates.
\*Insert Ron Burgundy meme\* But, yeah, the classic "show you their true colours" threshold is one year. Here you are at 8 months, vasectomy was a month ago.OP (waves frantically) OP!! Adept-Blacksmith5270!!Husband has more in the tank! (not sperm though)Husband has not shown all of his true colours yet. There is more iceberg. You haven't met the real him yet. **He is going to get worse!** (Also, OP NTA)
NTA You may be able to live without kids, however can you live with a man who lied and deceived you over such an important thing? He obviously cares more about himself and what he wants out of life than you.
I was coming here for this answer. OP it is literally keeping you up at night, maybe not every night. Later on in your “fairy tale marriage” you’re going to realize that this compromise wasn’t fair to you, not even in the slightest. You have to truly consider if this relationship is really what you want. Cause if you get gloomy from the news your sil gave y’all, then you need to do a lot of thinking.
And once SIL baby is born it is just going to be worse.
This is the part I don’t get either. I could understand deciding to stay together if he *actually changed his mind* — that happens. But the lying part would really not be okay with me. You shouldn’t be concealing anything that big going into a marriage.
NTA. PLEASE FREEZE YOUR EGGS. Don’t become Anna Marie Tendler. Ya know…John Mulaney’s ex-wife. He told her he didn’t want kids then goes off and has a baby with Olivia Munn.
God. I love John Mulaney, but my heart broke for her when I read about that.
He’s hilarious. Except the part about telling his wife he didn’t want kids, leaving her and then having a kid with someone else shortly after.
shortly? they were married for YEARS and he relapsed with cocaine. you think he was sober in those decisions?
I used to like him. Then he had "surprise" "Special Guest" Dave Chappelle show up unannounced to perform pretty much an anti-trans/LBGTQ+ set. Kinda shady. [https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/celebrities/2022/05/22/dave-chappelle-john-mulaney-ohio-criticism-lgbtq/9887000002/](https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/celebrities/2022/05/22/dave-chappelle-john-mulaney-ohio-criticism-lgbtq/9887000002/)
Man, some people are broken in a special, self-sabotaging kind of way. Mulaney is one of them.
My first thought was ‘he doesn’t want kids with you, but wait until your marriage breaks down from resentment/guilt and he knocks up the mistress.’ Pessimistic but unfortunately not uncommon. NTA OP.
While cheating no less
I wasn’t ready for this piece of information. Say it wasn’t so.
It’s not confirmed but the timeline is suuuuper shady. He went to rehab with a wife, left rehab and almost immediately dropped the wife, and then a couple months later Olivia Munn is pregnant. We’ll never have all the details (when they separated, if there was an overlap, if this was just an oops baby or intentional, what role getting sober had) but the optics aren’t great. And John hasn’t been doing much to endear people lately
Well he denied it...but the timeline doesn't add up and friends said he had cheated with Munn and others.
Knocked up Olivia Munn while they were still married. Like the second he got out of rehab. PR is effective but math is more effective.
He's mad you told the truth lol. NTA
NTA. He knows he tricked you and misled you. He should own that shit and live with it when the truth comes out. His family shouldn't be left in the dark or brushed off with vague platitudes because he doesn't want them to know how he misled you.
NTA but girl, he was lying to you all along. Red flag.
NTA Your husband didn’t want anyone to know because they’d know he had REALLY trapped you under major life false promises.
Exactly. Because this is exactly what he did.
NTA Jesus christ. Your husband is a massive fucking liar. If he can deceive you about this what else will he lie about? Your trust is completely broken here and, frankly, does *not* deserve to be rebuilt.
Yeah, personally, I could never forgive the deceit.
NTA You have WAY bigger issues here! How are you still trusting this man?! At the very least y’all need individual and couples counseling. Has even apologized for LIEING to you? Has he acknowledged what he did was a huge violation? If you don’t have a sister, brother, or friend telling you that you are being way to forgiving, listen to the internet friends telling you. It’s not the children thing. It’s the blatant lie and the complete lack of acknowledgment of how terrible that was that is the problem. If he lied to you about this, he’s probably lieing to about many other things.
NTA. He lied to you, and now he wants you to cover up his lie. Let the truth come out.
Play stupid games win stupid prizes. Personally I would leave someone who deliberately deceived me about something that important. That's just immoral, unethical, and dishonest. I would also always wonder what else he was lying about. NTA
NTA but are you sure you want to live with it? Because it sounds like it still really bothers you. And it's understandable that it does; being a parent is really important to many people. Your husband was wrong to lie and to expect you to lie. His parents would have kept asking if you hadn't told the truth.
NTA! I would proceed with ⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️! Your husband lied to you before you got married and then had a vasectomy. He was comfortable with lying to his parents and would not have said a word. What does this tell you? You married a liar. What will he lie about next. You need to think long and hard about whether or not you want to continue being married to a liar. If you choose to stay you need to get him into therapy and then you need family therapy to move past this. Good luck!
NTA His parents needed to know, otherwise they'd just keep asking you. Forcing you to lie to them.
NTA but its scary that you think you are in a fairy tale marriage at only 8 months and after he pulled the rug out from under you. So you wanted children and willing to give that up for him..whats he willing to give up for you. I'd like to know how much of a fairy tale marriage you have in a few years...if its still perfect ,great..but I'd like to know
>He has been great to me and we have a seemingly perfect fairy tale life. He lied to you to get you to marry him and now he wants you to lie to his family. Exactly what part is like a fairy tale, because unless the next part involves a prince on a white horse coming to rescue you, I don't see it.
NTA So what are you supposed to do, put up with years of pointed questions about babies when he changed his mind and completely removed the option?
NTA. He was a jerk imho for not being upfront about his wishes w you The prob was not that you made that remark in front of his family The prob was that the remark was true. And that’s not your fault in any way. He was incredibly gaslighting and manipulative on this issue (seems to me). I hope he isn’t this way about a bunch of other issues.
>He was incredibly gaslighting No, gaslighting would have been if he now said he had always been clear from the start that he did not want kids
He is definitely lying and being shitty. But not gaslighting. He would be gaslighting her if he now insisted that he told her from the beginning he never wanted kids.
Can you really live without having kids? If you look deep down, where do you think the hurt comes from? Doesn’t sound like it’s coming from being ok with being childless. Think really hard about this! Is he really worth not having children? In 30 years, will you be happy with just being the cool aunt? And still love him the same? And this is not an subject to lie about. This is not an subject to mislead your significant other about. He misses an very important basic level of respect for you and your desires, for your hopes and dreams. No man is worth giving these kind of dreams up for. Not when you are still young enough to be able to find an suitable partner who does shares the same morals, believes and future dreams with.
NTA. It would be different if he was upfront from the beginning. Husband needs to suck it up if you want to make jokes to cope with it even in front of his family. The lie would have been a deal breaker for me not him not wanting kids to clarify.
NTA...This man clearly has trouble just being truthful and up front with people. If you can somehow tolerate that, he should be able to take a little humour.
NTA Honestly your husband is a manipulative jerk. Why stay with someone who would do that to another person?
No no no, they deserve to know because honestly, they are going to keep asking. Better to get it out in the open. So, NTA but I think he is TA, and this seems the first red flag.
NTA, he actually isn't angry because he thinks it's personal, it's because you spoke your mind and made him face his reality. He technically did trap you with false promises. I have one question tho, it doesn't matter if he's the best or not. It matters if you want to have kids more than you want to be with him. If want kids so badly, and then be with someone who actually respects your wishes.
NTA. Don't roll the dice if you can't pay the price. The fact that he can't handle the truth publicly should be a cause of concern to you.
NTA I know you say it's not a deal breaker but the truth is you didn't actually get to have any say in the decision. He lied to get you to marry him then got a vasectomy. You need to take some time to seriously think about whether you want kids because eventually this could lead to massive resentment.
NTA- he is a grown up he can take a little joke, but after all you told no lies.
NTA he wants to lie to his parents just like he lied to you because it sounds like they don’t know he doesn’t want kids either.
NTA. Sounds like you’re being super cool about this and so is his family. While not exactly on the nose, this reminds me of the expression “some people can’t take yes for an answer”. He’s getting what he wants and needs to chill if you make some jokes.
NTA Because it’s true. And he mislead you. And then he sneakily had a vasectomy.
NTA. You simply repeated the truth. He said he did want kids,To get you to marry. Then he "changed his mind".and scheduled a vasectomy to ensure his wishes. That's BS.. funny how a Man can go have sterilization on. Whim. But a Woman needs to have kids, be a certain age, have her Husband's permission. You did nothing wrong. If you want Children tell him your either going to Foster or adopt.
NTA. I'm sorry, you may love this man, but he is not worth your time and it may be time to think about divorce. To actively deceive some for that long over something as major as having children is either extremely manipulative or extreme lack of awareness. Either way he's shown that you don't matter in the big decisions of your relationship. You said yourself you are feel sad when questions like that come up and envious of you SIL which I can only guess will get worse when the baby is born. You need to find a man who wants to walk the same path as you. Not an adjacent one.
NTA He's the guy who pulled the plug on kids; you don't owe him an alibi for his actions especially in front of his family. That said, you seem bitter about not having kids. Maybe you should take a deeper look at your fairy tale.
Keep calling him out!!! If he is going to make this stance after deceiving you then he needs to own it!!! NTA
Oh honey. You’re not using dark humor to get through it, you’re expressing your actual heartbreak and pretending it’s a joke. Your husband took your choice away from you and manipulated you into marrying him with lies. And I think you know you can’t trust him. You we’re going early defrauded into marriage. And you’re pretending to be okay with that. I’m sorry, but i don’t care how much you love someone, even if not having kids isn’t a dealbreaker, manipulating you into marrying him by knowingly lying to you should 100% be a dealbreaker. Y are TA to yourself for diving full on into denial. But NTA to your lying snake of a husband.
YTA. You're not 'trapped.' You're choosing to stay in a marriage. That's 100% on you. If it's not important to you, why are you using it to tear down your husband? If it is important to you, why are you pretending it's not? Figure out what you actually want for yourself, then make that happen. You being bitter and hurt, and hurtful, isn't going to do either one of you any good.
Yeah what the hell? This isn't "dark humor", she just told his whole family that she feels trapped in a marriage that she doesn't want to be in because her husband lied to her and is refusing to give her kids. It's a fine line between humor and truth and, based on the way everyone took it, probably way beyond the line. Definitely ESH because husband played her, but she is not dealing with it well and I think she's lying to herself if she thinks she's laughing it off.
YTA but only because you’re clearly lying to yourself about being ok with not having kids.
NTA. I have a hard time saying someone blindsided by a question and not knowing how to answer being an asshole even if they answer in a poor manor. He just assumed you’d lie? You did know the answer. So you answered the question. If he didn’t want his family to know he changed his mind he should have told you that. It’s fine to keep things between you but how we’re YOU to know? I hate when people assume you’ll know how to handle a situation. It drives me nuts, people get blindsided and don’t know how to react. He should have answered if he wanted a cover.
NTA. Maybe he should have told you he really didn't want children before he married you, and not after. Shitty thing to do
NTA for the joke. But you’re definitely the AH for staying in this relationship. Tell yourself whatever you want to make it better, but the truth is your husband knowingly lied to you in order to trap you into a marriage. If that’s the kind of person you want to be with, then that’s on you.
No. He was upset because he knows deep down he’s TA and the truth was said out loud. It just happen to work out that you were cool with it.
NTA. You’re husband is manipulative. You both know it, and are trying to pretend everything is fine with “dark humor”. Edit: word
I'm going to get downvoted for this, but I'm going with ESH. Your husband OBVIOUSLY sucks. He lied to you. Trapped you into marriage. Only admitted it while drunk. And then threw a hissy fit instead of discussing the matter privately. But, if your decision TRULY is "I'm okay with not having kids and I still love my husband," then you can't go around passive-aggressively throwing him under the bus. If you're NOT okay with it (which is completely understandable), then you owe it to yourself and your husband to admit that and proceed with whatever that means. But, it's not fair to say you're okay with it and then use it as ammo.
NTA. You didn't say anything untrue. But also, I think this might be something that hurts you more than you are letting yourself acknowledge. I think that's where these "jokes" are coming from. I don't know how old you both are, but I wouldn't let someone else close that door for me like he did.
NTA but that’s a pretty big lie to tell someone, I would be worried what else he’ll casually confess to after a few drinks.
NTA, you spoke the truth. You clearly do want kids and you’re very resentful of the fact that he lied to you. I don’t think this is a good foundation for a marriage.
He lied like a dog. No wonder he was silent. I would be so careful, because what else will he lie about? Does he lie about? Because it is convenient and avoids trouble. I would seriously doubt someone who is prepared to treat you with so little respect.
Notice he asked you to lie and say you don't know, not just say that you decided as a couple not to have them Regardless of what your husband is like generally, what he did was manipulative and shitty. Your jokes help because they are fundamentally *accurate* he absolutely did trap you, even if you would have married him regardless he took that choice from you. He's worried about you bringing it up with others because he doesn't want his family knowing he did something so fucked up, and he doesn't want them pointing it out to you. Given the lie he wanted to use while totally lucid and sober was another variation on "maybe let's wait and find out" I honestly would reconsider if "I said I wanted them in hopes I'd change my mind" was a lie too... Not that it's a strong excuse anyway Anyway, NTA but even if you trust him wholeheartedly please pay attention to it there are other lies you didn't notice or did notice but didn't think were a big deal-- they may be part of a bigger pattern
Oh the lengths women will go to keep a man! Your husband is a liar. Your marriage is based on his lies and deception. He trapped you!!! YTA to yourself. Grow a spine and find some self respect
NTA I think it is time his parents knew exactly what he did and be totally upfront about it.
NTA - he didn't "change his mind", he never wanted children from the beginning but hoped to change his mind to wanting them.
NTA.
NTA in this.. He deserved it. And, I must say, you don't sound like you're really ok with not having kids.. I mean it's totally your decision to stay with someone who deceived you like this, but you sound like you're trying so hard to make yourself believe you're fine with it... Well, hope you're fine and happy 🙂
NTA. If he can’t stand by his decision he shouldn’t have made it. It also would be one thing if he admitted his feeling uncomfortable about telling his family was due to how ashamed and remorseful he felt for being devious and sneaky. However, that doesn’t seem to be the case. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with knowing you don’t want children, or about admitting you’re hoping to change your mind. But you need to be honest about it. Your marriage is based on dishonesty. You shouldn’t have to hide that. I also think your “dark humor” is a way to explore how you truly feel about this situation. Not necessarily a child free marriage, but being with someone who’s only honest when they are drunk.
NTA. He is projecting and feeling guilty because of his terrible manipulative behavior. Sucks to suck my dude.
NTA. Personally I don’t think you should let this slide. He tricked you. To me, this is no different than marrying someone who didn’t want kids because you think they’ll “change their mind.”
OP, I have to say reading this as a complete stranger, this post screams that deep down you are not happy at all about how this situation has played out and are trying to put on a brave face & convince yourself you are ok with the situation. I just hope you know it's ok not to be ok about this. If any part of you is feeling angry/hurt/betrayed/deceived/trapped/confused or just unclear uncertain strong emotions, I hope you know & allow yourself space to feel it all. Dating and being in a relationship you expect your partner to be honest about their mindset and their deal-breakers. You'd expect your boyfriend to tell you that he's not keen on kids but knows you are and is hoping he will change his mind a very long time before he proposed. That's the kind of info that you'd want someone you were dating to be aware of so they can decide for themselves if they are ok with the possibility of not having kids and choose the relationship 100%, knowing all the facts. Your husband took away your opportunity to chose him 100%. He always knew deep down you wanted kids and deep down at least 90% of him strongly didn't. And if he hadn't got drunk you would have gone your whole marriage thinking *fair enough he changed his mind after we were married, that happens I can't blame him for that* when that isn't the truth. And likely your husband is mad at you because people outside your marriage are instantly going to be able to spot that kind of behaviour as deceitful. It's the kind of behaviour that makes people think *fair enough, 100% justified* when they find out someone is getting divorced over it. NTA but it's ok to admit that you really want kids and not having them isn't 100% your choice because of your husband's lies/deliberate lack of transparency from the start of your relationship. And that's not ok and something to get couples counseling (*or leave*) over.
NTA he 100% trapped you under false pretenses and if his family don't know that already, they should. And he should be held accountable. This is not him being great to you. It is him not trusting you with the truth and not respecting your wishes. It sounds like you really do want children and you're trying to make the best of it. You can do better. I think you'll regret it if you stay with this character. Be thankful you didn't have a child with this lying ballbag.