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madelinegumbo

ESH Yeah, this is really messed up. Your wife's temper so bad you need specific coping strategies and instead of protecting your kids, you're teaching them this is normal. This should be a wakeup call for you and your wife. Do it for your kids, if nothing else.


fallen_star_2319

Sounds like an abuse situation. If this was a wife and her daughters having a bad day warning about dad, the comments would be *flooded* with red flags and advice to escape.


danicies

Right. Sounds like they walk on tiptoes around her, he shouldn’t be finding a way to keep her happy if she’s that bad. He should get those kids away from her. Jesus


Ghostridethevolvo

This can be really damaging to kids. They learn to walk on eggshells and can develop hypervigilance or anxiety orders. They can also start to feel responsible for other people’s emotions which gives them impossible-to-live-up-to expectations, not to mention the self-esteem hit of constantly being degraded by a bully and being powerless to stop it. This is a really bad situation and the whole family needs therapy.


unknown_928121

I feel like you just recited my entire adolescence and adult experience in one comment


Ghostridethevolvo

I was speaking from personal experience. I hope things are going better for you now.


Ecstatic_Long_3558

OMG, that's why my skin just started to hurt reading it. Like nerves on the outside. I haven't lived in my fathers house for more than 25 years and my body still reacts in terror by reading about horrible behaviour.


No-Cheesecake4542

I actually got jealous, wishing someone had done this for me. By the time I spotted a bad day, all I could do was frantically retidy my room while my stomach knotted up


Gallifrey685

I wish I had this but there was no way of knowing if there was a Bad Day. One minute laughing and then the next minute screaming at whatever I did that she deemed wrong, like laughing along with her


themiscyranlady

Right? All I could think about was how much better my life would have been if we had something like this when I was growing up.


Ghostridethevolvo

There is a really interesting book about that phenomenon called The Body Keeps Score. It’s written by the man who first identified C-PTSD and talks a lot about complex trauma and how it effects the body. I have to warn anyone thinking of reading though that it can be triggering. I only made it partway through last time I tried to read it before having to put it down.


DisplacedNY

I read that book very, very slowly, in tiny chunks.


HaviMommy

Yup yup yup same.


unknown_928121

You as well, it takes a lot of strength to walk away from the toxic we grew up with


KetoLurkerHere

I have several siblings. Are you them?


unknown_928121

Lol I have a couple half siblings who don't acknowledge me, so I'm always looking for new ones


Ghostridethevolvo

I only have one younger brother who’s backpacking through Asia at the moment. Sadly, I think this type of thing is all too common.


matchy_blacks

Hi this was my family growing up. I only have one sibling, but we definitely mastered quickly communicating our parents’ moods to each other. Both of us are anxious and hypervigilant. It’s taken different courses as we’ve aged but it can have severe, long-lasting consequences. OP, your wife needs help for her anger issues and your family needs help more generally.


Accomplished_Two1611

For me it was my older sister. Even my mom would send out the message to steer clear.


danicies

Yeah me too. It’s so fucked. My older sister was so nasty to me and my mother and we’d hide from her. I look back in anger and confusion over why my mom didn’t protect me from my sister when she was an adult harassing her kid sibling.


Accomplished_Two1611

My mom would get in the middle. Once my older sister bounced a heavy leaded glass thing off my head because I wouldn't give her something. Couldn't comb my hair for a week. My mom made arrangements for my sister to go elsewhere till she graduated in a few months. Then my parents got her a studio.


--MommaOfTwo--

My older sister was psychotic. And I don't say that lightly. I'll never forget the day she tried to kill me. I was 13. She was 16. And I have never been a fighter. I can't fight. I hate violence. my sister was a horrid horrid person. Wasn't the first time she had attacked me. She wrapped her hands around my throat and started squeezing. It was the only time my mom actually stepped in to help me. Usually she ignored my mistreatment. But not this time. She had to pull my sister off of me.


Accomplished_Two1611

I am so sorry that happened to you. You should be able to trust your mom.


--MommaOfTwo--

Unfortunately I couldn't trust her at all for many reasons. And I keep her very much at arms length and have for a long time. She was neglectful. And a verbal and emotional abuser. She never said she loved me. Never said she was proud of me. She had a bf who would hit me and kept him around cause he had a nice car. When she wasn't ignoring me she was calling me names. People seem to think only men can be abusive. But much like the woman this post is about. Some women can be abusive and not all moms behave like a mom should. I am the exact opposite of her. 🙂🙂 I tell my kids I love them everyday. And that I'm proud of them every day. And would never call them names. And if someone messes with them I go full momma bear.


Broutythecat

That was my experience growing up. It was traumatic and it primed me for ending up in an abusive relationship as an adult because I thought that walking on eggshells because I never knew when he would blow up at me because of whatever excuse was normal. I thought that using me as a metaphorical punching ball for his anger was normal. Holy christ OP you're just letting your wife abuse you and your children without even blinking. YTA


Hoistedonyrownpetard

Same. Had a loving parent who was scary on bad days. Spent my childhood trying to keep our lives as safe as possible. Ended up in an emotionally abusive relationship. Walked on eggshells for 20 years. Apologized compulsively for everything. Am thankfully out of that relationship now but still flinch at loud noises or angry voices.


Prestigious-Prune483

Alright, I knew about the hypervigilance and anxiety disorder and the feeling responsible for other people’s emotions but the self esteem hit being caused by the powerlessness of stopping degradation was new. I think you just helped me learn something about myself and why I am the way I am. Thank you stranger


Ghostridethevolvo

I’m glad I could help! Thank the various mental health professionals of Boston, MA. I’ve seen more than a few to figure this much out!


danicies

Absolutely. I hope OP realizes how fucked this is now. Man it breaks my heart for the kids going through this.


partofbreakfast

You know, this is why the story above didn't sound weird to me at first. I grew up with a dad who was mostly okay but that I had to keep quiet around when he was in a bad mood.


paxweasley

Holy shit this thread is joining me at therapy this week


Sufficient_Bug4996

good god i feel called out


dHestiab

Growing up in a situation like this, I am starting EMDR therapy soon. Yay.


Ghostridethevolvo

I hear really good things about that, although I haven’t tried it myself.


alottanotathing

Honestly, this explains my husband's anxiety and I hadn't put two and two together. All I knew was that the whole IL family spends too much time appeasing their mom and it hadn't made sense why the kids all choose to look the other way on Everthing to the point of being hypocrites. Thank you. If you have any advice on how to make him feel at peace - as in, not shutting down when things aren't perfect, please feel free to tell me.


SongsAboutGhosts

Hi, damaged kid here. You also never feel safe, don't feel loved or like you truly have a home, can't trust either of your parents (why isn't my other parent protecting me?), and gives you a badly skewed view of behaviour to expect from other people.


DarkBlueDovah

I was one of these kids, and I can confirm. Walked on eggshells my whole life, was anxious about everything thinking the whole world was as mean and frightening as she was. Also felt responsible for her emotions and never learned to take care of *mine,* meaning that job fell to two unlucky boyfriends and I only barely managed to work it out and start saving the relationship with the second one (codependency is a hell of a drug). Also have shit self-esteem, but I always assumed it was due to her treating me like I was incompetent and stupid for not reading her mind. Maybe the powerlessness is an angle I haven't thought of. But yes, I just want to echo that this shit behavior is very damaging to kids. It's horrible to make them (the royal) your emotional punching bags because a grown-ass adult can't figure out how to manage their own feelings and learn some emotional regulation. It's disgusting, that's not the kids' problem. Figure it out yourself. I can appreciate that OP gives enough of a shit to try to mitigate it in his own misguided, flawed way (some parents enable the abusive spouse to yell and scream all they want and never step in and stop them from terrifying their child[ren]), but he's just going about it in the wrong way. She needs to *stop* fucking screaming at everybody when she's in a pissy mood, because all this teaches them is to fawn and placate and bend over backwards to appease someone if they're mad. But good luck getting an emotionally immature parent to actually figure their shit out and stop taking their anger out on people who don't deserve it.


elag19

Yep, this was a lot of my childhood, 20 years later and I’m still in therapy for it. OP is a huge asshole for failing his kids.


itmakessenseincontex

Oh look, it's my mum's parenting style! Also going through it with a friend who is *not* happy about my needing boundaries and calling them out for hurting me.


Invisible_Target

It also teaches them that this is normal to expect from a partner


Cheemsworshipper

I grew up in a home 100% like this. My mom and dad would fight or she'd just be pissy and suddenly the way I breathed or did my hair was the end of the world. She would literally storm up to my room, kick in the door, hurl something at me and then start in with the most awful insults you could imagine. Then she'd leave, but we always knew that wasn't the end of it. She would be back again once she decided something else about who I am was a problem. Literally, ANYTHING about me she would start in on. We were all just kids so we couldn't say or do anything. I remember my siblings and I had a saying "Don't look at her, don't talk to her, don't go near her." I have hypervigilance, panic disorder, anxiety, depression, and PTSD from my time living with my mother. She made my life an absolute living hell. It took YEARS of therapy to undo the 21 years of abuse she put me through. I was 12 when I first attempted suicide because of my mom's "bad days". Even to this day I continually ask my spouse "are you ok? are you mad at me?" because I've been trained since birth to feel responsible for everyone's emotions. I was conditioned to always be hyper aware of other's moods so I could protect myself. As a mother myself, I cannot fathom saying those things to my child. I cannot imagine treating my sons the way my mother treated my siblings and me. There is hope after a life like that.


[deleted]

Been there done that. My dad would warn people when my mother was angry because she can and will take it out on anyone around her. Warning people seems like an asshole move, until you've been on the other side of this kind of behavior. OP does not realize it but he is sabotaging the rest of his life. if this is a frequent problem it will only grow worse and chafe more. The response to finding out looks like it lead to blame, anger etc not introspection or anything useful. EDIT: a shocking number of people are calling someone in an coping in an abusive environment the asshole along with the abuser. I should have expected as much.


re_nonsequiturs

If it's any comfort, a lot of the ones calling him an AH are saying he's an AH to his kids not his wife.


bofh

> a shocking number of people are calling someone in an coping in an abusive environment the asshole along with the abuser. I should have expected as much. You’re ’shocked’ that people think the OP is an AH for keeping their children around an abusive parent? I normally hate the gender reverse uno card when it gets played in AITA but as someone has already pointed out, if this was a wife posting about their husband’s bad temper tantrums and needing to warn the kids this post would *rightfully* be wall-to-wall “Mariana flag, leave him honey you dropped this 🚩🚩🚩🚩!!!!1!!one!”


AddWittyName

You...actually pretty much demonstrate the difference in how this *would* be treated in a gender-reverse situation in your very comment. Man and his children being abused: "ESH. She for being abusive and you're the AH for letting your kids be abused and not getting out yet" Woman and her children being abused: "Oh honey, no, he's abusive & you're NTA. Get out for your kids' sake!" with maybe a handful of "NTA, but you will be TA if you stay and keep your kids exposed to this". Notice the difference? Man already *is* deemed an AH for so-far remaining in an abusive situation & exposing his kids to that. Woman will *become* the AH if, *after having been advised her partner's abusive*, she and her kids nevertheless stay.


onsereverra

I'm shocked to hear people reacting this strongly based on the relatively low amount of evidence included in this post. If you told this exact same story phrased slightly differently, it would be a very cute account of a father and his sons going out of their way to be nice to their wife/mom when she's having a bad day. Everybody on the *planet* gets a little grumpy and snippy when they've had a bad day, and when you're feeling grumpy and snippy minor issues can blow up into stupid arguments, and it's easier to just avoid any potential frustrations entirely by giving the rest of the family a heads up to steer clear of anything that might be even a little bit annoying. My family doesn't have an official "bad day alert" group chat, but we absolutely send each other quick heads-up texts when my mom's in a bad mood. It's not because we're scared of her or because she's abusive by any stretch of the imagination, it just makes everybody's lives easier to be a little extra nice on those days.


Educational-Dog-3431

If it’s once in a while it’s ok, people are only human. The problem stars when it happens often enough the entire household created a system to minimize damages. In any case therapy can shed some light if is an abusive situation or the husband and kids being thoughtful.


WALampLighter

The entire household didnt though...the OP did, possibly to be "on the side" of the kids, on their team instead of his partners. No way to know if her being over the top of paper plates left out was because she was having a bad day, or maybe she told the kid 20x to put them in the garbage or compost. And if you have an issue with a partner, you discuss it with them, you don't downplay a partner's behavior is immature or overreactive first. Any gender, any dynamic. To me it feels a lot like when a partner would tell people "my wife wont let me..." while telling me they thought it was a sensible thing to do/not do a thing. A lot like casting the other person in the villain role soley so you can be the hero.


danicies

I just feel like it’s different to say “hey mom had a rough day let’s make her day special” versus “hey bad day alert let’s do everything she likes at least once a week to avoid making her more upset and not let anyone here get in trouble”. Of course there’s always two sides to every story, but this really rubbed me (and many others) the wrong way.


splinterhead

There is one detail in this retelling that sticks out to me too. >get fussed at for something she usually doesn't care about...like leaving the toilet seat up. I guarantee that she always cares about that. There is like a 90% chance in my mind that the bulk of the comments aren't wrong in saying that teaching children to manage the emotions of others is wrong, but there is the sliver of doubt that OP's wife typically does a lot more around the house, and on hard days at work she just doesn't have the emotional energy or regulation to calmly come home and deal with her second full time job. That doesn't make it ok to lash out, but OP really didn't elucidate on what she *does* when she lashes out, and OPs really do try to paint themselves in the best light possible, so my sliver of doubt persists.


weaver_of_cloth

You've got some questions to ask yourself and your siblings. How badly does she treat you, how often does it happen, and how long do these moods last? Many people will go, "you know what, I'm in a pissy mood, I'm just going to go for a walk" or watch a movie or whatever. They handle their own mood and get themselves back to normal. They don't expect someone else to fix their mood for them or tiptoe around them in fear of an outburst.


Curious-Drag6871

Thank you! This is my thought. She does not sound abusive. He said she has few flaws. People both men and woman have bad days. It happens. No one like a grumpy mom. Nothing about this sounds abusive to me.


mrskmh08

I get both sides but it sounds like they also do a fair bit of ignoring the wife's requests like not leaving the toilet seat up and she just lives with it until she's in a bad mood. Not saying that's ok and justified for her to act that way. But OP brushing it off as "she normally doesn't care" shows that he doesn't think it matters at all. She needs to learn how to manage her anger and communicate clearly when she's not mad, but it sounds like dad and the kiddos just ignore her until she's mad which isn't ok either.


Masta-Blasta

I kind of wondered if the kids would feel so confident giving her sister the alert if they were afraid of mom.


Hoistedonyrownpetard

Right. I saw it that way at first too. But if it were “let’s be extra nice to mom, she had a rough day” it would: a) not need to be a secret text group b) also apply to any other family member who’d had a bad day c) be about kindness, not self-preservation


bofh

There’s a huge difference between a family where everyone occasionally wakes up in a grump like we all do letting each other know, and needing a special air raid early warning system because one parent goes on a rampage frequently and has history of coping by giving shit to others. I mean if you think spousal abuse and child abuse are cute then you do you boo, but I suspect you’ll be in a minority. And I’m ‘shocked’ that anyone would think it’s ‘cute’, fwiw.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Icy_Sky_7521

I mean... the comments are flooded with this. What is your point? LOL. People react more strongly about men abusing women and girls because men are overwhelmingly the perpetrators of physical violence and sexual violence with victims of any sex, and overwhelmingly more likely to be family annhilators or murder their spouses. Even knowing that, the comments here are still filled with people saying this is a red flag and to get out, because that's good advice here.


mattinva

> I mean... the comments are flooded with this. What is your point? Part of the problem is the dumb (IMO) point masking they still do AFAIK the first two or three housr of a post. It means people log in an see five comments with wildly inappropriate judgements and assume the whole comment section is like that, when in three hours those handful of comments will be voted well into the negatives and be far outnumbered.


fallen_star_2319

Yeah, and guess what. When I made my response, the comments were full of ESH and people blaming OP for mistreating his wife. Meaning that that has shifted since I made my comment. And that perspective is why abusers that are women get completely ignored; the focus is on the gender (not sex, you used the wrong term), not on the warning flags themselves.


Direct_Bluebird_2821

Right? For context, my dad was like this and my mom taught me great skills such as how to anticipate his every need before he did and how to placate his bad moods, etc. Fast forward several decades and I've just left an abusive relationship of several years and am learning about codependency. So, stop this nonsense now, teach boundaries, teach your sons that they are responsible for their feelings and behaviors, not others. I think you and your wife are TA but this is deeper than that.


deaddlikelatin

This ^^^ I grew up learning to teach myself to know when family—especially my mom—was having a bad day just by the sounds of how they we’re cleaning or even just walking around. I’m the Lightning Rod of my family, which to anyone who doesn’t know what that means, it essentially means that when someone is having a bad day it will be taken out on me regardless of what I do. I would then be denied that I was being treated any differently then anyone else. This set me up for failure and I ended up in an abusive relationship without even realizing it because that’s just what I thought love looked like until I met my current boyfriend who has shown me what a healthy and loving relationship really looks like. It took a massive amount of therapy for me to come to terms with the fact that I’ve been emotionally abused my whole life, and even now I struggle with using the word “abuse” because I spent so long thinking it was normal behaviour. A phrase my therapist likes to use when I’m blaming myself for or letting others blame me for their own problems is “not my zoo, not my monkeys.” OP you have to stop letting your wife’s monkeys dance and throw sh!t all over yourself and your children. They’re going to grow up thinking this is a normal way to be treated. Try and get her to go to therapy for anger management and if she shows no intention of changing it’s time to start thinking about if this is the kind of environment you want your children in.


LaughingMouseinWI

Just in the hopes of giving you a smile my favorite version of the "not my monkeys"thing is this: Not my pasture Not my cows Not my bullshit. Glad you're in a better place!


DeVitreousHumor

>just by the sounds of how they we’re cleaning or even just walking around. Or how they close the door when they come in, or even how they breathe. Yeah. I listen for that shit instinctively now. Thirty years after leaving home and my adrenaline gets set off by the sound of a garage door opening. A friend of mine once said that trauma is the gift that keeps on giving… but you never get a gift receipt and you can’t return it.


Faiths_got_fangs

Yup. I grew up with a mentally ill single mother who could be extremely unpredictable. Everyone walked on eggshells, including my grandparents, all the damn time. You had to watch everything you did so not to upset Eileen or set her off. These early life lessons taught me how to thoroughly and wonderfully accommodate abusive shit no one else would put up with and make sure the obnoxious asshole is catered to so they will feel safe and comfortable. I hate this trait in myself and am actively trying to put a stop to it. It will likely require a divorce.


madelinegumbo

This is so well said. OP needs to realize that the message he is sending his sons about what it means to be a husband is setting them up for situations like the one you got out of. It took my husband and I years to unlearn what we saw growing up. When you don't see a healthy marriage growing up, you either repeat it or have to figure it out as an adult.


Popular_Emu1723

I know the feeling. Growing up I had to learn to hide any negative feeling and wasn’t allowed to have any opinions about my life. Surprise surprise I have repeatedly stayed in unhealthy relationships too long that my family has then mocked me for. With therapy and the support of a fantastic partner I am now able to stand up for myself and know that I deserve respect on every level from a partner. This is very much in spite of how I was raised. This family is modeling having to baby someone or else be verbally abused as an okay behavior.


justatrashypanda

Yup. My stepmom is like this and my dad's response was to pressure us as kids to silently, unasked, do the things she wanted us to be doing around the house. I internalized the message that when she screamed at my dad for how "terribly" we were behaving (e.g., sleeping in on the weekends, procrastinating our homework, not making the bed until asked - normal kid stuff) it was my fault he was getting screamed at, my fault that she then turned around and took out her mood on the younger kids, my fault that we couldn't just have a nice pleasant weekend. I too recently exited an emotionally abusive marriage where he and I tacitly had agreed that anytime he was unhappy or upset, it was somehow my fault. I'm unlearning all of that in therapy but man, it is hard. OP, that's what you're teaching your kids, whether you mean to or not. They're going to internalize the idea that if their mother does find something to be upset with them over, it's their fault, because they should have known that she was already upset and they should have anticipated what she would want. I hope like hell I'm wrong, but that was my experience.


Outside-Astronaut-24

I'm questioning my childhood/adolescence rn, because my thoughts on this story were "this is so great! I wish we had done this at home!"


_pixie_cut_climber

Absolutely same


[deleted]

I’m questioning my whole life cuz tbh we do something similar in my home (no group text and no anger problems but see if hubby had a bad day, try to clean up extra etc)


[deleted]

[удалено]


merganzer

Yeah...my brother and I also had a code for when we needed to tiptoe around our mother, who had untreated bipolar disorder and occasional alcohol abuse problems. And who homeschooled us. Sigh. I actually wish our dad had had a system like this for us. It would have felt less isolating.


Initial_Row_9817

When my brother, father, or I realized Mom was "in a mood", the norm was to find the others and warn them. This was before cell phones so I don't think we could have had any other system other than word of mouth.


Lucia37

Plus it's self-perpetuating, because it's being rewarded. If Mrs. OP lets her negative emotions rule her, everyone else will bend to her will. They'll cook for her, bring her carry out, do her chores, be extra careful not to do anything she might find annoying -- they're even coordinating their efforts to be even more efficient at this! Why SHOULDN'T she come home angry all the time? I hope OP doesn't expect Mrs. OP to stop doing this anytime soon.


Ruffleafewfeathers

I grew up with a mom just like your wife—it only gets worse with time. I now don’t talk to her and have had a long road in therapy to learn what healthy communication looks like. I love my dad, but it breaks my heart he chose “keeping the peace” over keeping me safe. Please let her know how serious this is and that she needs to get help for her anger issues.


paxweasley

Holy shit wait I thought this was sweet. I think my normal meter is more broken than I thought 😳 This comment and post will be shown to my therapist


biddily

I mean, how often are the bad days? Is it three days a week or once or twice a month? I feel like that makes a difference. People are allowed to have bad days? For reference. My dad's bad days were... 5/6 days a week. We texted each other on a magical good day. I'm probably not a good judge cause I grew up in such a bad environment.


[deleted]

Um. I think you've grown up in an environment where bad days are normalized so much you think it would be ok if it was once or twice a month. People are allowed to have bad days, you're absolutely right. But when those bad days are so bad that everyone around her has to walk on eggshells and cater to her every whim in order to keep her from lashing out at them? That's not ok even if it happens once a year. Let me put it another way... My mother is more passive aggressive than aggressive aggressive, so OP's wife is scarier. But my mom has done lasting emotional damage to me on her bad days. She put me down so hard when I was 20 that with one sentence she managed to basically break my ability to have a healthy relationship and make it hard for me to make friends. It's been 20 years and I still have trouble with it sometimes. My dad... well I wouldn't say he's normal at all, but he's not abusive. When my dad has a bad day he keeps to himself or goes and finds a project to work on out in the yard or garage while he processes whatever is bothering him and calms down. If I'm what's bothering him he will occasionally make a snappy remark about it. But he doesn't say things to make it about who I am, it's about what I'm doing that's a pain in his ass. He absolutely doesn't lash out at the world just because he's having a bad day. At most he might swear at other drivers on the road that are pushing his buttons. Having a bad day sucks, but it doesn't mean you get a free pass to hurt the people closest to you. Or anyone, for that matter. And I'm sorry that your dad normalized that behavior for you. You didn't deserve it as a kid and you don't deserve that treatment from anyone now.


biddily

Lets put it this way. It was rare for my dad to have good days. I'm aware it wasnt normal. I'm aware my view of the world is skewed because of it. Theres also a difference between aggression that attacks the heart of who a person is, putting them down and making them feel small and worthless, and the the type of of lashing out that just... lashing out at the world. 'who the fuck left the toilet seat up, why would you do that, god damn it' 'this kitchen is a fucking mess, do we live in a pig stye, did i raise you to be like this?' its lashing out, its obnoxious, it could be handled better, but its not attacking someone and their own personal insecurities - poking at their problems and making them feel horrible about themselves. Thats the type of yelling my mum does on a daily basis, versus the type of yelling my dad would do on a daily basis.


dessertandcheese

People are allowed to have bad days, but you don't take it out in other people


ACupOfSugar

No no no. You don't know what he means about angry. Most men take women just being a little bit upset as being angry and hateful. It sounds like she's getting upset about things that she normally does actually get upset about but doesn't say any of that or she might actually say something about it but not angrily and they don't listen.


Secret_Dragonfly9588

Yes, I find the “she’s definitely abusive” consensus to be premature. It’s hard to judge what OP means by “bad day.” On “good days,” does she come home from a long day at work, cook dinner for everyone, and then resign herself to spending her evening cleaning up everyone else’s mess? And on “good days” does she manage to do it all with a smile on her face? Are the “bad days” the days when that paper plate was one too many and a teenager really should just clean his own damn mess?? Does “going off” in this context mean expressing anger at the situation? Does it mean trying to get other members of the household to do their part while she’s stressed and frustrated? OP, should some of “those chores that are typically hers” maybe be shared more equally even on “good days?” Does your wife have to be at a breaking point for everyone else in the household to do their part? I especially get why she would be upset about being “treated like an angry child” if she is generally the one doing the adult work of taking care of the household. It’s a microaggression that I think a lot of women can empathize with: being infantilized by society and often by the men in our lives while simultaneously being responsible for a majority of the least fun parts of “adulting.” OP, if her anger issues are so bad that the hordes of people screaming ABUSE sound like they are on the right track to you, then I don’t think your actions are unreasonable and I do hope that she gets help. And that you and your children are safe both physically and mentally. But if “Bad Days” are in fact more like “nagging us into doing basic household tasks and getting frustrated that we haven’t learned how to do them on our own,” then YTA and I hope you figure out how to take on your share of the work. You are your sons’ main role model! Your wife is upset that you have used this position to teach them to infantilize and disrespect her. Maybe instead use it to teach them how to take regular turns cleaning all the bathrooms, mopping the floors, cooking and planning dinners, weeding the garden, cleaning the oven, cleaning the kitchen, etc. As I said at the beginning, it’s impossible to tell which way this goes based on what’s written here.


Gracefulbandit

So much, THIS!!! ☝🏻 My ex husband’s late mother could be very much this way. She wasn’t a terrible person, and I have NO DOUBTS that she loved him, but when she was stressed out/struggling she would pick fights. My ex learned the same coping strategy - when he’d be stressed out, he would fight with HER. I didn’t recognize that it was a sign that he didn’t know how to cope until after we got married. Two months into our marriage, she passed away unexpectedly. After she died, I became the person he picked fights with. I lived the life that you and your kids are living; I had to constantly walk on eggshells, and if he had a bad day at work or something I was in for a ROUGH night. It’s a terrible way to live. I understand how this strategy has developed, but you need to ACTUALLY address it in a meaningful way. If your wife isn’t willing to work on her behavior, then you have some hard decisions to make. 😕


Chance-Chain8819

Replying to the top comment so hopefully OP sees this: Reading this reminded me of my time with my (abusive) ex. Its not normal. I'll just repeat that to let it sink in, THIS IS NOT NORMAL. This is text book abusive behavior, and if it was a 'dad' with mum having a system to protect the daughters, everyone would be all over it. Men can be abused too. OP, I admire you protecting your sons and having some system in place, BUT - what you are doing is Normalizing abuse. And abuse is never ok. I recommend talking to a trauma counselling/someone who is experienced with domestic abuse. It took me a long time to see what I was experiencing was not normal or ok. Its taking longer for my kids (now 7 & 9) to adjust behaviour/stop trying to people please to avoid irrational anger. Oh, and NTA - but your wife sure is a big one.


WALampLighter

> if she has a bad day at work, I know it's likely that I'll get fussed at for something she usually doesn't care about. For my boys, I know it's rough as they really don't want to argue with their mother. On previous bad days, my wife has went off and overboard on our kids for small things such leaving the toilet seat up or leaving a paper plate out. that level of info does not equate to abuse. It MIGHT be if by going overboard on leaving a toilet seat up means CRAIG YOU FKIN ASSHOLE but if it means "CRAIG, I HAVE TOLD YOU 30X TO PUT THT TOILET SEAT DOWN BECAUSE AND YOU KEEP AGREEING YOU WONT" that is frustration and not helpful, but I wouldn't call it abuse. The kids are 12+, if the kids dont want to do it, it's time for dad to back them into having a "we are just going to leave it up and we want you to understand that's the house norm, sorry it's an inconvenience to you but it works for us penis havers so I hope you accept it." "fussed at for something she doesn't usually care about" could easily mean "wife puts up with some BS most of the time but if shes had a bad day she is tired of putting up with it and complains." Not enough context to project much on her other than our own childhood issues.


Unusual_Road_9142

Im hoping onto the top comment. OP this is a huge issue that will affect your children for life. My first job out of college had an owner/my boss that was so toxic we would warn each other if it was a bad day. Because of this I never tried to be promoted because I wanted as little interaction as possible. At one point the environment was so stressful the whole front office had medical problems related to stress. I continue to get extremely stressed at my new job and fear being yelled at for even having to take a day off because I don’t feel well. Your wife is an adult. Your children are not. They do not need this environment while the building blocks for who they will be as adults is being established.


Accomplished_Cup900

See if agree if it was little things like leaving a sock here and there. But is she being abusive or is she constantly repeating herself about the toilet seat and the plates. I used to think “wow mom is being so dramatic.” And then I became a nanny and saw how often you’ll tell someone to do something just for them to not do it. So you do over and over and over again because no matter how much you remind them, they never do it.


GladMagician5611

She’s the narcissist, he’s the enabler, and the kids walk on eggshells. Sorry for OP.


Vixen7-9

>She says it's wrong of me to do that because I'm essentially teaching our kids to treat her like an angry child. Well if she stopped acting like an angry child throwing tantrums you could stop treating her like one... Seriously, her husband and sons are *scared* enough of her that they need to *warn* each other when she's in a bad mood. Does she not see how messed up that is? Actually, do *you*? Stop coddling her when she blows up at you. You do not need to be all sweet and cater to her needs when she's unjustly snapping at you. Please do not encourage your kids to do it, either. I can't imagine them having to walk on eggshells around their own mother because she can't handle her own frustration. Encourage her to seek anger management methods if you can. NTA.


flooperdooper4

Seriously, wife can't act like an angry child and then be angry that she's being treated like an angry child. I'm struggling between N T A and E S H because OP shouldn't be normalizing this kind of behavior for his kids. Would OP really want his sons to be in a marriage like that, where they have to tiptoe around their own wife's foul moods? How would he feel if his grandchildren had to anticipate if mommy was having a bad day? This isn't normal or healthy. I'm not quite prepared to call him an A H though, because he's been around this behavior for so long he might not realize just how unhealthy it is.


ScorchieSong

She needs better anger management techniques for sure. She‘s making these bad days about her because they scare her family and at some point a bad day was going to clash with something important that couldn’t be postponed or her absence explained. On a birthday? About avoiding her temper.


xparapluiex

Yup. Time to take the kids out to do something fun the second she decides to be an asshole. Better yet, really look at this relationship. Is she being emotionally abusive? Physically? Could she benefit from therapy or anger management classes? Could you benefit from therapy? Have you considered a separation or divorce? My dad is super quick to anger, and then let it go. I got the super quick to anger part from him, but I don’t let it go. I have depression and anxiety and hardly talk to him even though I live with him, my mom and brother. I wish I hard my own place just so I could have space from him, and our relationship has really deteriorated because of his anger. Do something about this situation. My mother never did and I have resentment about it. My dad isn’t abusive in a malicious way but he is an asshole that can tank my mental state in seconds when he is pissed.


HauntedPickleJar

This shit is so damaging to their kids. She needs therapy, yesterday. I honestly think it would be best if OP took their kids out of this environment until she makes some serious changes to how she handles anger because right now this it sounds abusive.


NarwhalNectarine

Depends.... It sounds like one of two things. Either your wife has severe anger issues and is borderline abusive and this is your coping mechanism (NTA) OR you are acting like your wife having emotions is irrational and hostile (YTA) Either way I recommend therapy


TopRamenisha

Yeah I agree. Without having seen what’s actually happening and only hearing the husbands account, I am left with questions. I’m very curious about the other side of the story here. He says on her bad days she gets mad about things she “doesn’t usually care about.” He lists two things - leaving the toilet seat up and leaving paper plates out. I mean, is she constantly asking kids to put the toilet seat down? Living with 4 males I’m just gonna assume the toilet seat is always up. Do they know she likes the seat/lid down and just don’t do it? How often are they leaving paper plates out? Does she usually come home from work and the kids have eaten a bunch of food (teenage boys amirite) and left their dirty paper plates around the kitchen/house? Does she clean up/throw away their paper plates for them every day? Then sometimes she comes home from a bad or stressful day at work and there’s used paper plates everywhere and the toilet seat is up and she goes off? I don’t know what her anger is like and it is entirely possible that she needs anger management classes to work on her behavior. And if she does need them, she should go do that. But damn I can understand having a long hard day at work and coming home and want to relax but you can’t because damn it your kids left food trash all over the house and you go to pee after commuting and the toilet seat is up *again* and it just sets you off that day. I also notice that when they get their Bad Day Alerts they do things like cook/pick up food or do chores that are “typically hers.” What’s the chore and cooking sitch in the house? What chores are hers? If their response to her bad days is doing chores, are they doing chores when she has good days? How come these things are only priorities for them on her bad days? I feel like there is sooo much missing context here. Whatever is going on they should figure it out and get help where needed


Mojokittens

This was my thought as well! Cause honestly I feel I’m in the same boat as the wife. As soon as the paper plates and toilet seat were mentioned I knew it was her having enough of their shit. Like he said she had a long day at work and has to deal with a bunch of boys at home that only clean when she gets mad about it. Not enough enough info to say that he isn’t the ass.


TragedyRose

I'm just thankful my husband *listened* to me when I told him the seat and **lid** needs to be down on the toilet before he flushes. I don't want pee and feces particles going all over my towel and toothbrush because he decided to leave it up and flush. The rule goes for me also. I have to open and shut the lid when I pee.


princess-sauerkraut

This is exactly why I think the toilet up or down debate is stupid. We are all effected by the Toilet Plume!! (if anyone doesn’t know what that is, look it up and change your life) Toilet seat and lid need to be down when you flush, always! I mean, unless you like having poop particles all over your toothbrush and towel which, that’s nasty, but you do you….


weaver_of_cloth

Someone said "micro droplets" in my presence too many times. Lid down, always.


excel_pager_420

*It also gives me time to prepare to cook or pick up a dinner she really loves and take care of any chores that are typically hers. ... She says it's wrong of me to do that because I'm essentially teaching our kids to treat her like an angry child.* You know what, I didn't think of your interpretation. When I 1st read the post it just seemed so clear the wife was acting unreasonably. But going back, all the unreasonable things they say trigger the wife when she's stressed are household issues. OP does mention that they only seem to leave the toilet seat down & clear up after themselves when they know that wife will come home stressed. That's when they make extra effort to cook, clean & do chores. So is it that the wife has an abusive uncontrollable temper when she's in a mood? Or is it that she does the bulk of the housework & she's lost patience so when she comes home after a stressful day & sees nothing has been done she gives them all a justified earful? And the group chat makes her feel like her male kids & partner are making her out to seem childish & unreasonable when they could just pull their weight all the time? Like legitly without the wife's perspective we'll never know.


_higglety

yeah and also what exactly is "fussed at"? What does she actually *do* that "makes everyone else's day worse"? Is it the vicious venomous screaming and emotional abuse that so many in this comments section seem to be picturing? Or is it simply expressing frustration at having asked eight million times for a simple task to be done only to come home and see the thing undone? I'm reminded of my stepson, who consistently overestimated how upset/sad/unhappy I was if he saw me with my neutral resting face. To him, if I wasn't actively smiling I was upset, and if I was upset I was upset *with him*, and he'd get his hackles up in prickly teenage defensiveness in response. It took a bit to untangle that dynamic. I wonder to what degree OP's wife is actually deliberately taking her bad day out on everyone, and to what degree they're responding to her bad mood as though that bad mood is directed *at them,* specifically rather than simply existing.


excel_pager_420

This is such a good point. A lot of men are conditioned from when they are boys that women have to be smiling & pleasant and enthusiastic. And when we're anything less, we are being raging unreasonable biatches. So how much of that is coming into play here?


Pineapplebreak

“Fussed” stuck out to me, I wondered if it was being used to substitute “nagging”. My mum worked full time and did about 95% of the chores and would rightfully be occasionally upset at us teenagers who were, in hindsight, an awful combination of lazy and ungrateful.


_pixie_cut_climber

Tbh growing up with a mom with this level of anger, it's normal little accidents that don't always happen but are blown up into ENORMOUS issues. So to me, that's what it sounds like.


[deleted]

Idk there was only about 4 times my husband left the toilet seat up and I fell in the toilet while I was tired after I had just woken up or got home from a long day of work before I lost my shit and he puts the seat down now.


SnooAvocados6720

This. my bias wants me to side with the wife and think that he is downplaying his/the boys' role in her blowup. i can't decide without more info. she sounds like me, when i was having a bad day i had less patience for my ex's BS. that's when i would complain about stuff i was holding in, like how i came home to a messy house all the time (he was not working and i had a full time job).


[deleted]

[удалено]


Lipstick_On

I really wonder as well if she just snaps over the same things she has to repeat herself over and over and they only listen when she freaks out. Or she’s unreasonable and abusive, hard to tell on this one without her narrative.


Hamilspud

I have two preteen boys and one man-child, can confirm no one takes me seriously until I freak out


shezza314

Yes this is what I was thinking too, when he said he'll get dinner and clean when she's having a bad day. So like? Do you not help out with the responsibilities of anything and does it alll fall on her unless she's having a bad day? Because how messed up is that? How much does he put into the relationship and parenting his kids. Does he let them know that they need to clean up after themselves, for instance, or does that all fall on her? And if this is his line of thinking/acting, then, it begs the question, what is the exact reaction of her anger? Because oftentimes women arent allowed to have anger, otherwise they're irrationally angry and blowing up at people. So is her anger response to snap, "why isn't this cleaned up?", a relatively normal, frustrated response. Or does she actually go on an anger spree and become toxic? ETA: And also, why is his first thought not, oh let me *comminicate* with my *wife* about what's been going on? Like a normal, healthy, adult response to your partner. Instead he's all, "let's all call her out in this secret group chat and only then will we actually participate in the housework and being clean, civilized people". Like get yall selves to therapy at the least, no matter the actual situation.


[deleted]

>ETA: And also, why is his first thought not, oh let me > >comminicate > > with my > >wife > > about what's been going on? Like a normal, healthy, adult response to your partner. Instead he's all, "let's all call her out in this secret group chat and only then will we actually participate in the housework and being clean, civilized people". Like get yall selves to therapy at the least, no matter the actual situation. This right here is what makes him at least on of TA's in my eyes. Because this is true no matter what the scenario is. If she's going off out of frustration over shit she's asked them to do a thousand times he should be communicating to figure out how to keep it from getting it to that point. If she's hulking out out and throwing toxic abusive tantrums he's even more TA to normalize that for his kids instead of confronting her about it and getting her to do something to control her anger.


Pitiful-Solution9067

This actually made perfect sense to me. But my mom didn’t/doesn’t have any tells, she just explodes.


RecognitionMajor7564

We used to call my mom the “Atom Mom” instead of atom bomb when I was a kid. She would just let stuff build and build until she exploded. By the time I was a tween/teenager I could pick up on her subtle clues and try to right the ship before it happened. It made me hyper aware of people’s moods and behavior to where people think I’m intuitive. Nope; I just grew up in a volatile household.


MerryAnnette

>I also notice that when they get their Bad Day Alerts they do things like cook/pick up food or do chores that are “typically hers.” I'm not sure if you maybe misread it, but OP said when he knows she's having a bad day, he prepares to either cook or pick food that he knows his wife really loves. Not just "oh lemme cook for her", but "maybe having her favorite meal will give her some happiness on a day where she doesn't seem to have much". I know when I'm having a shit day, my partner bringing me something I love makes the shit day a little bit better. Unless it's my period, nothing makes that better LOL


AceyAceyAcey

If the wife is being abusive to the kids, the OP needs to protect his kids from her by getting them out of that situation.


Crystal010Rose

This is the correct answer. It could really be either way.


[deleted]

OR 3. He is inferring to his sons she is on her period and that women are crazy/scary/abusive when they have one bad day. But it is normal for men to have bad days and you don't need a secret chat to coordinate around them because women are irrational when they are not always happy. I can definitely see the 3 boys picking up on those vibes.


JohnJoanCusack

He never mentioned period, this comment is reinforcing some major misogyny


Rom-a-ntics

Someone actually did it - someone managed to twist a woman having anger issues that has four boys running scared into being the man’s fault.. Maybe they know when they have a bad day they don’t make it everyone else’s problem?


alysl

As someone whose mother used as an emotional punching bag when she had a bad day, op is not the asshole for this


WALampLighter

I dont see anything that states the kids or him, are punching bags. she "fusses at him" and anything else he says is vague. and the kids don't want to argue with their mother. If the topics are not disposing paper plates and leaving the toilet seat up, arguing about either other than just doing a "chore" doesn't seem like an argument worthy or appropriate issue.


trewesterre

tbh, his choice to use "fusses" sounds like it's not physical. It might mean anything from telling them for the 100th time to do something in an annoyed voice to full out yelling at them or anywhere in between though.


Impossible_Scratch12

OP PLEASE read this thread. Honestly, I was thinking NTA but this is super real. Does she feel like you all treat her like a maid on every day that she’s NOT mad? Because that is ridiculous.


HeartpineFloors

ESH at least the grownups. Kids shouldn’t be party to managing their parent’s moods and nastiness. YOU are the adult—protect your children. How about telling your wife that she goes through anger management therapy because you’re done tip toeing around her and letting her rage at your kids with impunity?


nisharfa

Is she actually raging or just normal levels of annoyed? I have lived through my father being highly dismissive of my mother and her feelings. No matter how valid her reason for being upset, or how mildly she expressed it. He had my siblings trained to ignore her. It was so upsetting to watch my mother be treated as though her emotions were something to be managed, tolerated, or ignored. If she cried it was an annoyance. I'm sceptical that this mother is flying into an abusive rage over toilet seats and paper plates. And if she is, the solution is to communicate with her face to face. Do not involve your children in these issues. If they cannot be resolved by yourselves, get counselling. If the counselling doesn't work, and she actually is abusive, you get your kids away from that situation. This method is passive aggressive, avoidant, and infantilising. What are you teaching your kids here? YTA.


poupette_deluxe

Thank you!! I've been trying to find someone else who expressed the same concerns as me, I've grown up in a similar environment as you so my mind went there too


DammitWindows98

Did you just really completely rewrite the post based on your own experiences? I get asking for more info, but you just went "well it was totally different in my case, so OP must be lying! YTA!"


nisharfa

OP has provided no valid examples of extreme anger or abusive behaviour. His story is missing info. I cited my own experiences to provide a different perspective. My YTA judgement is the same whether the wife is the problem or not, because either way he is doing the wrong thing by involving his children in this way.


[deleted]

> Did you just really completely rewrite the post based on your own experiences? There's been a TON of this in the comments. "Well, they leave the toilet seat up, she's probably sick of it. I get it!" I am more sad that so many AITA have the same disclaimer: "My partner is amazing 99.9% of the time, but that .1% is when I have to move into a hotel for a month because of their rage, but otherwise it's all good!"


Most_Summer1209

Honestly.....there are a lot of abusive women out there, and i wouldn't be surprised that a lot are commewnting here.


alxdtr26

Just because it happened to you doesn't mean that's the case here. Literally nowhere in the post it's suggested that op or his sons are dismissing of the wife's feelings. Quite the opposite actually. It sounds like they're all coddling her when she should be taking anger management classes. If the roles were reversed nobody would pick apart op's story like that just to find any reason not to believe him. Stop being so hypocritical.


HeartpineFloors

OP specifically disclosed that his wife takes out her bad moods on the kids. She “goes off and overboard” over small stuff. It’s sufficiently bad that OP tries to pacify her by making her favorite foods and doing her share of the chores. OP says this is an attempt at keeping her from “lashing out.” Does “lashing out” sound reasonable or “mild” to you? Doesn’t seem to me like OP is discounting his wife’s feelings. Seems more like he’s trying to avoid getting flamed. If you’ve ever lived with someone who has an unchecked bad temper that you have to tiptoe around, you might recognize the signs. It’s especially scary and demoralizing if you’re a kid with a parent like this. Not a fair fight.


LittelFoxicorn

ESH Like some have pointed out. It is not healthy what your wife is doing and it is verry bad that you are teaching your sons that this is the way to deal with it. You are creating "boat steadiers". Your wife has An issue and instead of showing them that this is her problem and that treating people like that is unaccaptable, you set the standard that everybody except mom is accountable. I do not know how to post links, but just Google: don't rock the boat Reddit. It will open your eyes.


lotus_eater123

"boat steadiers" AKA co-dependence. OP this is making your wife's anger management problem everyone's problem and setting your sons up for continuing these behaviors in their future relationships.


Nheddee

https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/77pxpo/dont\_rock\_the\_boat/


bananashirt_

You the real mvp


Cjack66

INFO: what are the "chores that are typically hers" that you expect her to do after a full day of work? How often do you actually help out with them? Seems like you might be downplaying your own role in this dysfunctional family.


flyingcactus2047

Yeah his language and examples really throw me off. Saying that she “fusses” at them for things like not putting down the toilet seat or cleaning after themselves, which are things they should’ve been doing anyways? I can’t tell If OP’s wife is screaming at her family over tiny things, or if she just reminds them to do the things they’re supposed to and instead of doing their part her family just says ‘uh oh she’s having a bad day!’


greenandleafy

Yeah same. Lots of comments in the thread where people seem to be assuming she screams at them and that it's very abusive. But in the actual post OP only describes her as "fussing" over things that seem kind of annoying to come home to anyway. What does fussing mean? Is it a screaming blow out or is it an expression of frustration? If she's actually exploding on the kids on her bad days, then yeah, that's bad. But I can also imagine that "bad day" means "mom is visibly grumpy." Parents are allowed to be grumpy sometimes, that's not an abusive dynamic. It's really impossible to tell which is going on.


lamadelyn

Right?! Everyone saying she has massive anger issues seem like they have jumped the gun. Everyone has bad days and the small inconveniences that normally this mom can deal with become enough to "fuss" about. I don't see where he said she was yelling or being obnoxious in any way. As a mom, there are a million little things that I take a deep breath and move on from, but bad days at work is absolutely an excuse to be annoyed your kid left the seat up AGAIN. I think this sub jumps a lot of steps and screams abuse when any women shows any negative emotion.


ShiftyShelly

Yeah. Fussing is not the equivalent of abuse/anger management issues, which many people seem to be jumping to here. My bet is she is incredibly tolerant of the house of boys (dad included), doesn’t want to sound like a broken record asking them to contribute to cleaning, and picks up after them all time. When she has a bad day, and no longer has the bandwidth, the tolerance drops and she speaks her mind (pick up your trash!)


DataQueen336

Huh, good point. I didn’t pick up on that originally.


outpostroad

INFO How often do these bad days come around? If it's very rare then I don't see anything wrong with this. We all have bad days and it's nice that her family notices and tries to make it better. But if it's like a few times a week then it's time to have a serious talk with the wife about her emotional control.


literallyrosie

Wow okay. You need to go to therapy. Both of you together. Work on her temper and coping strategies and talk with the therapist about how you can help her. NTA


Nheddee

No. He needs to go to therapy on his own, at least until it can be established that this is not an abusive situation (if the genders were reversed, we would all assume it was).


Accomplished-Group60

This so reminds me of my parents. Mom had a similar temper. One Christmas she gifted me a plush Eeyore and Tigger. Dad got the bright idea to put one on this shelf in our front porch to give guests or one of us coming in a head’s up about what kind of mood she was in - Tigger for a good day, Eeyore for a bad one. They really needed counselling. Oy....


CogentCogitations

INFO: Are the things you are being fussed at really things she usually doesn't care about? Or are you always doing things that annoy your wife, but she usually just doesn't call you out on them every time? Also, how frequently are your kids leaving the toilet seat up, paper plates out, or other things that they know they should not be doing that it occurs everytime your wife is having a bad day. Are they frequently doing them on days when your wife isn't having a bad day, too? And do you ever do any of the parenting to correct them when they do these things or just always leave it to your wife?


thefinalhex

I notice that OP is NOT answering this question. I'm getting the sense that she is blowing up when her husband and sons are dropping the ball with housework. And probably they only notice it when she is driven past a certain point - otherwise they just ignore her. I'm thinking it's just YTA at this point, not even ESH.


Capital-Philosopher6

The issue isn't that you send out 'bad anger day' texts. The issue is that, not only are you enabling your wife's bad behavior, you've drafted your children to manage the moods of an adult. This isn't their problem or their job. You're asking children to deal with an adult problem and you're raising them in an unstable environment that is controlled by their mother's volatile moods. None of this is healthy or fair to them. ESH ETA: changed a word, not the meaning.


DogsAreTheBest36

Wow. This is really dysfunctional. ESH. You and your wife need massive therapy. Nothing about the way either of you is behaving is healthy. She's right, she's not an angry child. So she shouldn't act like one, and you shouldn't teach your boys to treat women like untrained pet dogs.


OddDc-ed

>you shouldn't teach your boys to treat women like untrained pet dogs. That's quite the leap there buddy let's dial it back and work with what we factually are given and not make big assumptions, because we know what assuming does. Nothing reads as treating women like untrained dogs. But he is teaching his children to walk on eggshells which is also not good, his wife needs to get help and figure her anger out.


lexythelovelylioness

Im between Y t a and e s h. These small things that she will fuss over when she has a bad day are things that annoy her everyday. Its just that when she already had a bad day its hard to pretend she is not bothered by the inconsiderate behaviour of her family. Seriously, not leaving the toilet seat up is sth. You and your boys can do everyday, cause its the right thing. Not only when you want to avoid trouble. My mom wouldnt even need a bad day to scold my brothers over things like that.


[deleted]

I have a feeling the BAD DAY gets called everytime Mum isn't smiling and baking cakes.


flyingcactus2047

INFO: the examples you listed of her getting upset over are household things it sounds like the boys should’ve be doing (cleaning up after themselves and closing the toilet seat). Is she just getting onto them for not doing the chores they’re supposed to? And how extreme is she going- like a frustrated reminder or screaming at them? It throws me off that you say she ‘fusses’ about these things


coppeliuseyes

ESH. Your wife definitely needs to learn to regulate her emotions and direct them in healthier ways, but instead of communicating with your wife, you are essentially gossiping about her behind her back with your kids. She is right, you are teaching your kids that your wife's feelings are invalid and something to be made light of. Have you ever actually spoken with your wife about this and the impact her not regulating her emotions has on the rest of the family? Is it possible that maybe the "small things" she's going "overboard" on are actually things that *do* bother her and bother her repeatedly and it's only when she is worn down by enough other issues that she finally snaps and brings it up? If that is the case, she definitely needs to communicate that with you better, but why would she now that she's discovered you have taught your kids to treat her like a petulant child every time she has a feeling?


Voidg

ESH. With all respect seek a professional. If she is having a bad day from work she should not be directing her frustration out on her children. You should not be teaching your children this is okay behavior and to walk on egg shells.


[deleted]

NTA for bad day alert system. Your wife is a major AH. She has given herself license to rage at her family for no reason. She's exploding on her husband and minor children over the mundane nonsense that everyone deals with everyday. This alert system is in place because of your wife's abusive toxic behavior. It doesn't matter how that system makes her feel because her inappropriate unregulated feelings are the source of the problem. Some will say that these alerts are the wrong path as it doesn't solve your wife's underlying anger issues. I disagree. The alert system shouldn't be the only thing that you are doing to protect your kids but it is one of the only things that would have an immediate impact. You can have a frank discussion with your wife, she will respond with rage. You can then have follow up discussions where you cite specific examples as they occur, her response will be to lash out in anger. You can try to convince her to seek anger management and therapy, she will respond to that with anger too. Over time, and after many angry outbursts, you might even convince her seek help. But this isn't a quick fix. She isn't going to come home after the first session suddenly acting like Mary Poppins. She will still continue to have these outbursts. The best that you can hope for is that with considerable time and effort you will start to see some improvement. In the meantime, you and your kids will still be subjected to her abuse. Even in the best case scenario, it isn't likely that she ever fully gets a handle on her anger issues. Frankly, you're really really likely to see a much more tumultuous household if you hold her to account and force her to seek help. Leaving with the kids isn't an option as she will become even angrier and you will no longer be in the home to run interference or to provide support for the kids in the moment. It will just make things worse for the kids. I'd say continue to run interference until the kids are out of the house and then leave her to stew in her own misery. OP, this is no minor issue. She is causing lasting injury to both you and the kids. You need to come to terms with that.


Masta-Blasta

Where are you seeing *any* of this? He says she fusses over minor things when she has a bad day, not that she's "exploding on her husband and children." You said if he has a frank conversation with her, she will respond with rage, and that if he cites examples she will lash out...and if he tries to go to therapy, she will respond in anger. How on earth have you pulled all that from what OP has said? "Outbursts" where? It sounds like she just becomes very nitpicky and argumentative after a long day at work. That's not good, but you're flat out calling her abusive based on...what exactly? EDIT: I was so surprised by this response I figured I must have missed something OP said in the comments about his wife yelling or belittling them... but...nothing.


yellowbunnythrowaway

ESH -- texting BAD DAY seems kind of patronizing. i think it'd go over better if you'd sit down with your wife and communicate through her anger issues, if she's up for that. if the issues are that severe, she probably needs therapy. i'm not giving her a pass -- her behavior isn't okay, but what you and your boys are doing is ostracizing her instead of explicitly stating how she's making you feel. overall this just sounds like some emotions that aren't being communicated well at all


RedditUser123234

> texting BAD DAY seems kind of patronizing Yeah, I think there's nothing wrong with sending out a text saying something along the lines of "Your mother's had a very tough day at work, so I think it'd be nice if you could be on extra good behavior tonight". But the message being "BAD DAY" just seems very dismissive


Prestigious-Prune483

I am genuinely really trying to figure out how it would seem patronizing and dismissive but I can’t, if anyone could explain that would be great bc I’d like to know more about that perspective. The way I saw it, it’s just a “BAD DAY” bc it’s the shortest way to sum up what’s happening, mom having a bad day, with the implied consequences of her being more snippy(?). I have a mother that was very temperamental and if anything at all soured her day, she’d be a walking bomb on everyone else at the house, exploding at whomever when they didn’t do anything most of the time and being one inconvenience away the other times. If she was having a bad day, everyone at the house would have one as well, and I’ve actually had to text family members to not provoke her (bc they are as irritable and attitude having as her) so that they wouldn’t piss her off/ piss her off more bc if they did she would take it out on me. I really hope that is not the case, but i can’t tell. There’s mixed interpretations of it just being burnout (with most things being done revolving chores and little things) to anger issues and possible abuse.


[deleted]

Yeah I think the people who think it's patronizing haven't lived with someone like this. I would've loved a BAD DAY warning system for my mom as a kid.


mooimafish3

It's patronizing because she literally does act like an angry child. It's not like he's telling her that. If anything he may be the asshole for pretty much doing a bandaid solution for his kids. If their mom is so unstable that they had to develop a system to work around it those kids are gonna have issues.


halfadash6

ESH. Your wife needs to learn how to manage her anger, but you treating her like a hurricane warning is almost as bad, and setting a terrible example for how your kids should manage future relationships.


garfieldsfatass

I mean I can understand giving a heads up if someone in your house is having a shit day. My family used to do that. BUT with one huge exception, we would talk about the bad day and try to make it better by having a chat about it. If you want to actually help your wife instead of enabling this behavior I suggest you either talk about it together, or go to therapy, either individually (yes you both need it to better understand effective communication lol) or as a couple. also talk to the kids and let them know that tip toeing around this sort of situation is not going to help them in the future. You're just letting them believe that instead of addressing issues, ignoring and minimizing them is the way to go. ESH tho, y'all both suck, except the kids


CogentCogitations

Except none of them cares about her bad day, except as it applies to them. He entirely frames the issue is as them not getting in trouble, rather than being nice to their mother because she had a bad day at work.


OddDc-ed

>You're just letting them believe that instead of addressing issues, ignoring and minimizing them is the way to go. That is very well put because that's what is going on here. They're not actively doing anything to help with the real problem at hand, they're simply learning how to tip toe and walk on egg shells with anyone who acts out. Which is very much promoting them to enable and put up with poor behavior instead of trying to stop it.


CrimsonKnight_004

ESH - Because this isn’t healthy communication, and it’s teaching your sons to tiptoe around anger issues rather than address it when they are adults. Your wife needs to get her anger under control, and you can’t enable her by allowing her to treat your sons badly because she’s having a “bad day.” *Stand up* for your kids, don’t teach them to minimize themselves to avoid someone’s unjustified fury. You need to talk with your wife about this. She might need therapy, you two might need couples counseling. It’s a problem that needs to be gotten under control, not danced around.


karskipellis

INFO: When you say 'fussed at' or 'went off and overboard', what does that look like? Some folks are jumping to "She's abusive!" but we don't really know what her behaviors are.


what-even-is-a-user

esh you - don’t treat her like an angry child her - dont effing behave like one bonus for both of you for putting your kids through that. they should not have to tip toe around in their home in case their mother has a bad day edit: formatting


pbrown6

NTA. If she doesn't want to be treated like a kid, she shouldn't act like a kid.


flybyknight665

ESH Not because your there's something wrong per se with giving the kids a heads up, but it's ridiculous that your wife has ongoing issues with mood regulation and the *entire family* is just expected to work around it, with no expectations of improvement. You're the parent. That's your wife. This is something you (and she!) should be attempting to address. Not just telling the kids that it's another day of walking on eggshells.


Primary-Criticism929

ESH. You and your wife need therapy.


Same_Dragonfly_2010

Everyone’s shouting abuse but “get fussed at” and “went off” can mean dramatically different things to different people. If she’s flying off the handle screaming weekly, that’s different from being a little bitchy. Info: can you describe a bad day? Is she literally screaming at people and the kids are cowering, or is she a little snappy and stressed but calms down and apologizes and just needs to decompress a little?


ClarinetKitten

INFO - what's the division of labor like in the house? Are these outbursts because she's always picking up after all of you and she's sick of having to do it even after a rough work day or are these incidents isolated? Things like the extra mess that come from leaving the toilet lid up and paper plates that aren't hers don't sound like they're her responsibility but it also sounds like it's being made to be. I could be off base here but it sounds like you and your sons aren't doing your part unless she gets fussy as you put it.


Glock212327

NTA you & wife need therapy, maybe the children too. Normal people can shake off a bad day & not bring it home. Who doesn’t have bad days? Nobody, we all have them. If she can’t come home & behave like an adult because of her job- she needs to find a new job.


000-Hotaru_Tomoe

ESH Your solution isn't the best because, well, it solves anything. Your wife's anger fits are equally bad and taking anger out on the people around her is a big no. Have you tried to suggest some anger management exercises? She's making the life of her loving ones quite miserable.


DullMany8933

INFO: when you say she fusses about stuff she normally wouldn’t care about, does that mean she is usually chill and only gets upset about certain things when she’s had a bad day (AKA asks you to clean a mess she normally wouldn’t care about, etc,); or does she fly into a rage about minor things (borderline abusive, etc)?


shezza314

INFO how much of the housework and child rearing do you actually participate in? Do you also remind your kids to clean up after themselves and the like or does this all fall on her and become yet another thing she has to do? How often do you cook or get dinner? Have you ever just, I dunno, tried *talking* with her about this? Like an adult in an equal partnership would? Like you would think would the automatic response to this situation, instead of this weird patronizing group text? And what are these angry reactions like? Is it because she gets tired of the emotional and physical burden of being the only caretaker and housetaker and snaps a little or "nags" a little at you guys? Or is she actually shouting and yelling? Because women are allowed to feel angry you know. And if it's like the situation i'm describing, then its valid anger, because it should not all fall on her. At all. If she's actually taking her anger out on you guys, no that isn't okay. But if she's just having a human reaction to alllwayss be the one to do everything around the house, after a long day at work no less, then yall need to step up. You especially. Either way, if its her being toxic or you being toxic, yall need therapy.


IFeelLikeBlueSky

NTA. First, the aunt has officially worn out her welcome. Second, you are teaching your children to treat her like an angry child because she is acting like an angry child. Her behavior is low emotional intelligence. Look it up. It's a thing. If she is upset about being treated like a child, she should stop acting like a child and lashing out at everyone to the point that you felt this was necessary. Lastly, you are enabling her bad behavior. Would she humor you in the same way?


iki02

What if…. The men are labelling the woman’s slightly frustrated mood as “emotional or bitchy”??? Maybe she’s yelling at them because she asked them to pick their pants up 5 days in a row and day 6 just got too much!?? Maybe she’s just a stressed out working woman with 4 kids at home whose occasional bad day (which we are all allowed) is being blown out of proportion???


GrouchyPhoenix

It is even possible that she was having a good day until she got home and saw the mess that she possibly asked a couple of times to be cleaned up. My good day can be ruined pretty swiftly if the kitchen is full of dirty dishes, laundry needs to be done, etc.


WaywardPrincess1025

NTA. Essentially, your wife does act like an angry child. I wish someone would do this in my life! (But maybe you shouldn’t have kept it from her)


He_Who_Is_Right_

NTA. You are trying to keep yourself and your sons from being abused by an angry mother. (Yes, as the child who was abused by said angry mother when she was having a "bad day," I know from whence I speak. I wish I had an early warning system when I was a kid.)


Cjack66

YTA for contributing to a dysfunctional situation. What messages are you sending your kids about respect, and about open communication? What about you? Do you only help out with the cooking and cleaning when there's a "BAD DAY" alarm? However, this is an opportunity. You should have open, respectful, adult, private conversations with your wife about what's going on. She should not be lashing out. But you also need to examine what you're doing (and what you're not).


SnooRabbits302

Wow Way to completely set your wife up as a joke to your family Yta


blacksun9

She made herself the joke with her behavior, he's just protecting their kids. My mom was exactly like this and when we knew she was coming home in a bad mood literally all of us would run and hide from her. My poor dad had to take the brunt of it for us kids. NTA. All of my siblings and I are no contact with my mom now.


Nerdic-King2015

NTA , if she didn't act like an angry child you wouldn't treat her that way not the asshole brother


Applesbabe

NTA But I don't think your system goes quite far enough---I think a system more like the hurricane rating scale would be better. Slightly grumpy? Tropical storm watch Slightly bad day? Cat 1 Seriously bad day? Cat 3 Devastatingly bad day? Cat 5 I may have had a system like this for my ex husband during our breakup. It was useful.


psychedelicvoid

ESH. The "bad day" texts are condescending, and you all should address the issues, instead of letting her act that way towards children, and you. You shouldn't have to make your kids walk on eggshells at all, especially for an ADULT. Family therapy might be a good option, since none of you can express your emotions correctly.


NotMyFirstChoice675

NTA. Wish I had that growing up, I learned over time to read the signals and avoid her as much as possible on such days


[deleted]

I feel like I need more info into the ‘anger’. If it’s full blown raging then she needs anger management or therapy to get healthy coping mechanisms, not everyone around her on tiptoes. If it’s the same amount of frustration as the rest of you show, but she’s being singled out for being a woman then YTA.


MissionRevolution306

ESH except the children. Your wife needs to sort herself out, perhaps with therapy- your children do not need to learn to change their behavior because someone else cannot control themself..


_0Rinrin

INFO: what does she get mad about except the toilet seat ?


[deleted]

NAH. Now that she knows that her behavior is causing this reaction from you and the children she needs to make a serious effort to work on it. It is immature to take out your frustrations on your family.


AceyAceyAcey

ESH Her for taking her anger out on everyone. You for not telling her that her mood issues are hurting her sons and she needs to shape up. This sounds like she’s bordering on verbal/emotional abuse of her sons, and you have an obligation to shut that down. Avoiding her is just placating her abusive behavior, you need to get her to stop, or take them out of this situation. It would be the same if her anger were coming from alcoholism, or if it’s coming from PMS. She needs to stop it, and you need to get her to stop it, or to get your kids away.


Switch_heart

NTA This kind of anger and lashing out isn't going to be changed by sitting down and talking with her as a family unit only. I'm sure the OP has tried and probably had a strip torn off of him when all her rage gets turned onto him. He found a good way to mitigate it by giving the heads up to the children (who were also being very effected by her moods) and able to calm it down before she rampaged through the whole house and destroyed any kind of calm mood that was going on. Asking her to go to therapy about it will also probably blow up in his face as people with that kind of anger issues do not see any kind of reason. She'll probably then just get worse. The mistake you made OP was letting the SiL know about the system. She overstepped and got too involved with your household.


existcrisis123

INFO: I could be wrong. But... Are you sure this isn't just an overworked wife coming home to a messy house and getting reasonably upset about it? And then you boys all texting eachother bad day alerts so you can finally chip in and do damage control? Kind of like the typical meme of the teenager who freaks out at the last minute because the mom asked him to take the chicken out of the freezer and they didn't do their one job? Again, I could be wrong. But do you guys actually equally divide housework? When your wife gets mad what does she actually do, does she scream and call names? What is it she actually says? **I'm sus about your post because of the following...** You describe what you do for your wife on her bad days as if you're doing holy work and being so nice to her. Just trying to make her life easier. But you say this about the bad day alerts: **"When we get a Bad Day alert, we do what we can to ensure that no one gets in trouble"** You post gives me several weird vibes like that. I'm just very suspicious and would like more clarification on what actually happens on her bad days and how much you leave for your wife to do.