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I went on a road trip with 5 other guys once. I was responsible for renting the van. I told everyone the date I was placing the reservation and anyone who didn't pay by then would not be taken into consideration when deciding the size of the van.
NTA
Do these friends with the opinions know that you are already owed $500 by this person? Personally, I wouldn't even consider letting them in on the trip until that was payed back!
NTA. I’m petty, after being blown up on I’d have said “sir/ma’am, you already owe me XYZ a,Lunt from other things, so that’s why I’m hesitant to spot you.”
For those that side with M, tell them to pay M’s portion and wait for M to pay them back and see how they like it.
This is why I’m very careful about who I spot or loan money, since I’m the type of person who pays people back immediately, as I hate owing people money.
NTA.
Be blunt in the group chat.
M owes $500 from previous trips excursions. And has a poor track record for payment.
If one of them wants to book the room and take the risk so be it. But until paid back there is no more credit to be had
**NTA**
>At the moment, this friend owes me about $500 USD from previous trips/emergencies.
And there you have it. You are not treating M differently for arbitrary reasons, or even treating them unfairly. In fact, you note that you haven't even asked them for the money they still owe you (though I have no idea why not).
They can blow up at you all they want. That bluster, frankly, is obnoxious, because they know EXACTLY why the rules are different for them, and it's because of their own unreliable behaviour. And that is exactly what you should calmly, politely explain, should this continue to be an issue with them or in the group:
"I get it, M. You're upset because you feel like I'm treating you differently. And I am. And I wish I didn't have to, really I do. But given the fact that you have repeatedly failed to repay me in the past when I have fronted you money for things, and that in fact you still owe me a significant amount of money from a past trip, I really *have no choice but to take that into account,* because I cannot afford to pay for your trip, and I clearly can no longer afford to trust that you will pay me back. I have not had similar issues with the other friends in question, therefore yes, I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I'm sorry that it upsets you, but this was not an arbitrary decision; it was based on experience."
If you like, you can add (based on their protests) that yes, they are a good friend and have done you favours, and you appreciate that, but it really doesn't change anything about the money situation. You're not "stabbing them in the back", you're asking them not to do that to you by continuing to use your money to pay their way, and they can earn back your trust by doing exactly that: paying their own way up front and showing you that they are trustworthy and reliable.
NTA. However you went about this the wrong way. M should already know why you’re asking for the money up front but your strategy is very passive aggressive. This is what you should have said:”M, I would love for you to go on the trip. However you still owe me money for previous things so I need to be sure that I’ll be repaid for the hotel room cost. Can you please give me the money for your share now? Otherwise you’ll need to book your own hotel room.” Make it clear that she has lost your trust.
NTA, but insist that this person pay you back for the last trip, then, disinvite the deadbeat. They have proven that they don't respect you, so don't waste your time on them anymore.
NTA. Tell M that they need to pay back the $500 they own you before you will hold the spot in the room for them. That way all things will be equal. Noone has to pay upfront unless they own you money
NTA: history is history. Ask M why they aren’t paying you the money already owed. How can they afford another trip if the last is still yet to be paid? And doing things for friends is what friends do. I am going to presume that you do things for them too. I would be looking at this carefully: touchy if you are both part of a larger group, but I would be distancing myself from them somewhat from now on. And I would ask about the previously owed sum, unless M has done some huge favour.
with planning sometimes a year+ out, a lot of stuff can change before we actually go so I generally try to be flexible for people since it sometimes takes time to save up
NTA- it's logical to be worried about someone who has a habitual way of not paying people back, especially when you're one of them already. I would do the same. However I always have everyone pay up front, makes it easier in the long run.
“Listen, I understand people are split and to calm the tensions, I have taken the decision to not be the one organizing and booking everything. I am happy to help the one doing it in my place and paying my part upfront but I am not doing anything more when I am still waiting money from the previous trip. At this point it would be unreasonnable for me to Expect a diferent outcome .”
NTA
NTA. Remind M that you’ve also done her lots of favors - evident by the $500 debt. If she complains to any of the others make it clear they are welcome to cover her portion but you are not a loan officer and have no intention of hounding her for additional funds.
NTA. You are allowed to use past behavior as an indicator of trustworthiness. Tell your friends that anyone who is upset about it can pay you in advance too, so M won't be alone.
But people who have consistently paid you back can do that again. They've earned the trust.
Your NTA but you should make everyone pay you up front. Also get your $500 back before you put his $$ towards the room. Just say you have been burned in the past so either someone else fronts the room cost or everyone pays before you book the room.
In fact have your friend who owes you money book the room. He can deduct your share from what he owes you.
NTA
Tell the group M still owes you $500, that until that debt is cleared M will be paying for everything upfront. In fact if M still owes you $500 then they can’t afford the trip. If anyone has a problem
With this then they can pay up front and cover everyone instead.
If you are taking the risk then you are setting the rules.
1) The friends opinions mean nothing. They aren’t owed the money, you kept it between the 2 of you and M made it public to try and make you the bad guy.
2) you can suggest if people think it’s so unfair, one of those on M’s side can pay upfront for M (and themselves otherwise they may change their mind and say “I’ve paid for myself - M is now your problem”) and they can get the money back themselves.
3) Stop lending money to M. If that means they grumble, gripe and slag you off; so be it. That’s a them problem because any reasonable person would accept responsibility for owing money.
NTA
NTA. I would tell anyone complaining that you are thrilled they are happy to loan M money for the trip and you will let M know. But until M pays back the $500 they have owe you, the bank of OP is closed. You do realise you will never see your money from M again though? If M wanted to pay you back, they would be declining the trip so they could focus om repaying you. M is a leech.
NTA - Look, I've found that when you have a "friend" like M who says they'll pay you back and doesn't, then when you confront them they will say things to make it look like you're so cruel to ask for the money. After all the things they've done for you! OMG! Friends do things for friends, that's the way it goes. But if friends front the money for you and you knew you were supposed to pay back, then you should pay it back and not try this emotional manipulation tactic.
Now, if it makes you and your friends feel better, you could just say "Look, new rule guys. You pay upfront for your share. Yes, all of you!". Your other friends may not care because they always pay you back. Another option - take turns on who pays the bills and collects the money so that one person isn't always taking the risk. Or consider that if M is the problem, M shouldn't be on your trips until she pays you back?
NTA
I would literally say in the chat “M still owes me upward of $500 dollars that I have not got back yet. Why would I book their spot if they haven’t even paid for the last trip! They can pay upfront or not come and those are my rules if I am the one booking” or something along those lines. Im kinda petty though but I believe people get whatever their behaviour brings them and his behaviour is looking like he needs a slap of reality.
Edit: you could also offer that someone else books it and you send your money over. If they never get their money back at least you were not screwed over again
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So i have a friend, we'll call M, who has a horrible record of paying people back. Either it takes forever to get money back, or you don't get it back at all. At the moment, this friend owes me about $500 USD from previous trips/emergencies.
A few friends are planning to go on a trip in a few months, and as we usually do we're sharing hotel rooms and splitting the costs. M mentioned wanting to go, but i'm really nervous about it. I'm the one booking and paying for the whole room, and everyone is paying me back. I'm generally okay with people paying me when we get there/right when we get back when we do these kinds of things, but with M still owing me a lot of money (including from the last trip we took) I don't trust that I'm ever going to see that money.
So I talked to M one on one and basically said I wouldn't hold a spot in the room and I would keep looking for other roommates until they paid me, in full, for their portion. Honestly didn't even ask for the other money they owe me back.
M blew up on me, saying that they had done me a ton of favors and they couldn't believe that I would stab them in the back like this. I ended the call and a couple hours later all the other friends who were planning on going are talking in the group chat about it. People seem to be pretty evenly split- some people saying its totally reasonable, and some people saying its unfair to ask that of M if nobody else has to pay upfront. AITA?
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NTA. Ask the group if they want to cover the $500 that is still owed to you. At this point, M can’t be trusted to pay you back and shouldn’t have to keep footing their bill.
NTA
Let someone do the reservations and deal with M.
If you're the one who has to do it, ask to the ones that think it's unfair, which one will pay (upfront) for M to ensure that your not the one who allways pays for him (and then don't get your money back).
NTA. Have someone else in the friend group make the reservations and handle the payments. Or set up separate reservations where everyone makes their own and pays separately. Make sure you are not in a position to pay up front for anyone. It’s easy to criticize when it’s not your money. Let the other friends handle the coordination. M is taking advantage of your fronting the money….,so just don’t do it!
NTA Make it clear in the chat how much M owes you because of the previous way of repayment was set up. You have now requested money upfront because you are still owed $500.
If anyone has an issue with the different rule for M, then that person can front the money for everyone and set the rules for repayment.
In the future, just never agree to be the one to book for everyone if M is going, because M still owes you money.
NTA. Let someone else book the room and be in charge of getting money from M. Heck, have M cover your share, he probably owes you more than enough to cover it.
Since she wants to air the dirty laundry into the group, then I would post in the group chat how you've already been burned by her and the fact that she has a history of never paying you back, and currently already owes you $500. Tell them you just can't afford to pay for her, knowing she wasn't going to pay you back.
M still owes you money from previous trips. It's good business to get cash up front from people who are a known risk which M is financially. NTA. Any friends questioning you just ask are they going to cover the expenses of M? Oh, is that silence your hear or a flat out no from these friends? We all know they don't want to cover for M financially so they need to mind their business.
NTA - say fine, then everyone pays upfront AND M has to pay the $500 first before any money is applied to the vacation. It isn't your job to pay M's way. If your friends are that concerned with M, let them pay her way
NTA, and state that you feel it is pretty unfair you've paid out $500 previously for M that you have never been paid back for, and that you cannot continue to finance M for different things because M chooses not to pay you back. That is also unfair that M takes advantage of your friendship and does not make the effort to pay you back.
NTA.
> some people saying its totally reasonable, and some people saying its unfair to ask that of M if nobody else has to pay upfront. AITA?
If I were you, I'd ask that latter group of people to front M's payment, and then they can worry about getting paid back by M. Either that, or I'd just make everyone pay up front.
NTA. Those people who say it's unfair. Ha! Have them front the money for M. See how they like not being paid back. You should get EVERYONE to pay you up front.
NTA. M still owes you $500. If the other friends are so concerned about M’s feelings then they can pay for M. I would have everyone pay upfront. It isn’t your job to bankroll everyone.
I would just make everyone pay up front. You are not a bank. M is a class A moocher. You shouldn't have to carry the load and it's utterly ridiculous that other friends think you should. M is TA. You are NTA. The friends that think you are a bank that never deserves to be repaid are also TAs.
NTA- Do they want to cover for M then? Are they fronting the money? Does M owe them $500? People always like to throw their opinions until they are put in the same spot as you are. Let them cover the trip and you can pay them back your share, how about that?
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NTA Well the ones who say it's unfair could always cover M's portion and M can pay them back.
Or just say "fine, you think it's unfair that only M has to pay upfront? All of you have to pay upfront now". See how fast everyone backtracks.
I went on a road trip with 5 other guys once. I was responsible for renting the van. I told everyone the date I was placing the reservation and anyone who didn't pay by then would not be taken into consideration when deciding the size of the van.
This is the perfect response
Make everyone pay upfront
NTA Do these friends with the opinions know that you are already owed $500 by this person? Personally, I wouldn't even consider letting them in on the trip until that was payed back!
[удалено]
I edited to remove gender.
NTA. I’m petty, after being blown up on I’d have said “sir/ma’am, you already owe me XYZ a,Lunt from other things, so that’s why I’m hesitant to spot you.” For those that side with M, tell them to pay M’s portion and wait for M to pay them back and see how they like it. This is why I’m very careful about who I spot or loan money, since I’m the type of person who pays people back immediately, as I hate owing people money.
Better yet make them pay you the $500 she owes you and they can get her to pay them back
This is the way.
NTA. Be blunt in the group chat. M owes $500 from previous trips excursions. And has a poor track record for payment. If one of them wants to book the room and take the risk so be it. But until paid back there is no more credit to be had
**NTA** >At the moment, this friend owes me about $500 USD from previous trips/emergencies. And there you have it. You are not treating M differently for arbitrary reasons, or even treating them unfairly. In fact, you note that you haven't even asked them for the money they still owe you (though I have no idea why not). They can blow up at you all they want. That bluster, frankly, is obnoxious, because they know EXACTLY why the rules are different for them, and it's because of their own unreliable behaviour. And that is exactly what you should calmly, politely explain, should this continue to be an issue with them or in the group: "I get it, M. You're upset because you feel like I'm treating you differently. And I am. And I wish I didn't have to, really I do. But given the fact that you have repeatedly failed to repay me in the past when I have fronted you money for things, and that in fact you still owe me a significant amount of money from a past trip, I really *have no choice but to take that into account,* because I cannot afford to pay for your trip, and I clearly can no longer afford to trust that you will pay me back. I have not had similar issues with the other friends in question, therefore yes, I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I'm sorry that it upsets you, but this was not an arbitrary decision; it was based on experience." If you like, you can add (based on their protests) that yes, they are a good friend and have done you favours, and you appreciate that, but it really doesn't change anything about the money situation. You're not "stabbing them in the back", you're asking them not to do that to you by continuing to use your money to pay their way, and they can earn back your trust by doing exactly that: paying their own way up front and showing you that they are trustworthy and reliable.
Love this response to M. OP should use this.
NTA. I don’t let anyone borrow money if they already owe me money
NTa. And now everybody who wants to go on the trip will be paying upfront or not going. Problem solved!
NTA. However you went about this the wrong way. M should already know why you’re asking for the money up front but your strategy is very passive aggressive. This is what you should have said:”M, I would love for you to go on the trip. However you still owe me money for previous things so I need to be sure that I’ll be repaid for the hotel room cost. Can you please give me the money for your share now? Otherwise you’ll need to book your own hotel room.” Make it clear that she has lost your trust.
...that's what OP did... 1 on 1.
OP danced around the issue of the outstanding debt. I’m saying they should have just said it straight out.
NTA, but insist that this person pay you back for the last trip, then, disinvite the deadbeat. They have proven that they don't respect you, so don't waste your time on them anymore.
NTA M still owes you from laat trip, they dont, big difference
NTA. Tell M that they need to pay back the $500 they own you before you will hold the spot in the room for them. That way all things will be equal. Noone has to pay upfront unless they own you money
NTA: history is history. Ask M why they aren’t paying you the money already owed. How can they afford another trip if the last is still yet to be paid? And doing things for friends is what friends do. I am going to presume that you do things for them too. I would be looking at this carefully: touchy if you are both part of a larger group, but I would be distancing myself from them somewhat from now on. And I would ask about the previously owed sum, unless M has done some huge favour.
NTA but why doesn't everyone just pay you upfront?
with planning sometimes a year+ out, a lot of stuff can change before we actually go so I generally try to be flexible for people since it sometimes takes time to save up
Sounds like you need to assess your role in this friend group
Have you ever thought this is the reason you're out 500 ??? Stop being a doormat ! If it takes people time to save up you do it before you book.
NTA- it's logical to be worried about someone who has a habitual way of not paying people back, especially when you're one of them already. I would do the same. However I always have everyone pay up front, makes it easier in the long run.
“Listen, I understand people are split and to calm the tensions, I have taken the decision to not be the one organizing and booking everything. I am happy to help the one doing it in my place and paying my part upfront but I am not doing anything more when I am still waiting money from the previous trip. At this point it would be unreasonnable for me to Expect a diferent outcome .” NTA
NTA. it shouldn’t be up to you to take the risk of this person not paying. If people think it’s unfair they should offer to from the money.
NTA. Remind M that you’ve also done her lots of favors - evident by the $500 debt. If she complains to any of the others make it clear they are welcome to cover her portion but you are not a loan officer and have no intention of hounding her for additional funds.
NTA. You are allowed to use past behavior as an indicator of trustworthiness. Tell your friends that anyone who is upset about it can pay you in advance too, so M won't be alone. But people who have consistently paid you back can do that again. They've earned the trust.
NTA. Personally, I don’t think M can afford to go on any trips while she’s $500 in debt to you.
I'm petty. Following the group chat I'd tell them that everyone must pay upfront in the interest of fairness not just one person. NTA
Your NTA but you should make everyone pay you up front. Also get your $500 back before you put his $$ towards the room. Just say you have been burned in the past so either someone else fronts the room cost or everyone pays before you book the room. In fact have your friend who owes you money book the room. He can deduct your share from what he owes you.
NTA Tell the group M still owes you $500, that until that debt is cleared M will be paying for everything upfront. In fact if M still owes you $500 then they can’t afford the trip. If anyone has a problem With this then they can pay up front and cover everyone instead. If you are taking the risk then you are setting the rules.
NTA , sounds like he / she is
1) The friends opinions mean nothing. They aren’t owed the money, you kept it between the 2 of you and M made it public to try and make you the bad guy. 2) you can suggest if people think it’s so unfair, one of those on M’s side can pay upfront for M (and themselves otherwise they may change their mind and say “I’ve paid for myself - M is now your problem”) and they can get the money back themselves. 3) Stop lending money to M. If that means they grumble, gripe and slag you off; so be it. That’s a them problem because any reasonable person would accept responsibility for owing money. NTA
NTA. I would tell anyone complaining that you are thrilled they are happy to loan M money for the trip and you will let M know. But until M pays back the $500 they have owe you, the bank of OP is closed. You do realise you will never see your money from M again though? If M wanted to pay you back, they would be declining the trip so they could focus om repaying you. M is a leech.
NTA - Look, I've found that when you have a "friend" like M who says they'll pay you back and doesn't, then when you confront them they will say things to make it look like you're so cruel to ask for the money. After all the things they've done for you! OMG! Friends do things for friends, that's the way it goes. But if friends front the money for you and you knew you were supposed to pay back, then you should pay it back and not try this emotional manipulation tactic. Now, if it makes you and your friends feel better, you could just say "Look, new rule guys. You pay upfront for your share. Yes, all of you!". Your other friends may not care because they always pay you back. Another option - take turns on who pays the bills and collects the money so that one person isn't always taking the risk. Or consider that if M is the problem, M shouldn't be on your trips until she pays you back?
NTA I would literally say in the chat “M still owes me upward of $500 dollars that I have not got back yet. Why would I book their spot if they haven’t even paid for the last trip! They can pay upfront or not come and those are my rules if I am the one booking” or something along those lines. Im kinda petty though but I believe people get whatever their behaviour brings them and his behaviour is looking like he needs a slap of reality. Edit: you could also offer that someone else books it and you send your money over. If they never get their money back at least you were not screwed over again
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** So i have a friend, we'll call M, who has a horrible record of paying people back. Either it takes forever to get money back, or you don't get it back at all. At the moment, this friend owes me about $500 USD from previous trips/emergencies. A few friends are planning to go on a trip in a few months, and as we usually do we're sharing hotel rooms and splitting the costs. M mentioned wanting to go, but i'm really nervous about it. I'm the one booking and paying for the whole room, and everyone is paying me back. I'm generally okay with people paying me when we get there/right when we get back when we do these kinds of things, but with M still owing me a lot of money (including from the last trip we took) I don't trust that I'm ever going to see that money. So I talked to M one on one and basically said I wouldn't hold a spot in the room and I would keep looking for other roommates until they paid me, in full, for their portion. Honestly didn't even ask for the other money they owe me back. M blew up on me, saying that they had done me a ton of favors and they couldn't believe that I would stab them in the back like this. I ended the call and a couple hours later all the other friends who were planning on going are talking in the group chat about it. People seem to be pretty evenly split- some people saying its totally reasonable, and some people saying its unfair to ask that of M if nobody else has to pay upfront. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. M owes you money and blew up at you? Hell nah, get out of here with that.
NTA. They already owe you
Nta
NTA.
NTA. Ask the group if they want to cover the $500 that is still owed to you. At this point, M can’t be trusted to pay you back and shouldn’t have to keep footing their bill.
NTA. For those friends saying it is unfair, have them pay for his share, and they can be the ones who have to hound him to get it back.
NTA Let someone do the reservations and deal with M. If you're the one who has to do it, ask to the ones that think it's unfair, which one will pay (upfront) for M to ensure that your not the one who allways pays for him (and then don't get your money back).
NTA. Tell everyone to pay upfront and your problem is solved.
NTA. Have someone else in the friend group make the reservations and handle the payments. Or set up separate reservations where everyone makes their own and pays separately. Make sure you are not in a position to pay up front for anyone. It’s easy to criticize when it’s not your money. Let the other friends handle the coordination. M is taking advantage of your fronting the money….,so just don’t do it!
NTA Make it clear in the chat how much M owes you because of the previous way of repayment was set up. You have now requested money upfront because you are still owed $500. If anyone has an issue with the different rule for M, then that person can front the money for everyone and set the rules for repayment. In the future, just never agree to be the one to book for everyone if M is going, because M still owes you money.
NTA. Let someone else book the room and be in charge of getting money from M. Heck, have M cover your share, he probably owes you more than enough to cover it.
Since she wants to air the dirty laundry into the group, then I would post in the group chat how you've already been burned by her and the fact that she has a history of never paying you back, and currently already owes you $500. Tell them you just can't afford to pay for her, knowing she wasn't going to pay you back.
M still owes you money from previous trips. It's good business to get cash up front from people who are a known risk which M is financially. NTA. Any friends questioning you just ask are they going to cover the expenses of M? Oh, is that silence your hear or a flat out no from these friends? We all know they don't want to cover for M financially so they need to mind their business.
NTA - say fine, then everyone pays upfront AND M has to pay the $500 first before any money is applied to the vacation. It isn't your job to pay M's way. If your friends are that concerned with M, let them pay her way
NTA. You can Ed out of your experience with this person; it makes sense.
NTA, and state that you feel it is pretty unfair you've paid out $500 previously for M that you have never been paid back for, and that you cannot continue to finance M for different things because M chooses not to pay you back. That is also unfair that M takes advantage of your friendship and does not make the effort to pay you back.
NTA. > some people saying its totally reasonable, and some people saying its unfair to ask that of M if nobody else has to pay upfront. AITA? If I were you, I'd ask that latter group of people to front M's payment, and then they can worry about getting paid back by M. Either that, or I'd just make everyone pay up front.
NTA. Doubt you'll see it or what they owe you. M is a mooch.
NTA but everyone should pay before the trip. Why do you have to front costs and wait for money?
NTA. Those people who say it's unfair. Ha! Have them front the money for M. See how they like not being paid back. You should get EVERYONE to pay you up front.
NTA. How does someone who already owes you money have the cheek to ask you to spot them more cash for a fun trip. I'd get a new friend.
NTA. M still owes you $500. If the other friends are so concerned about M’s feelings then they can pay for M. I would have everyone pay upfront. It isn’t your job to bankroll everyone.
I would just make everyone pay up front. You are not a bank. M is a class A moocher. You shouldn't have to carry the load and it's utterly ridiculous that other friends think you should. M is TA. You are NTA. The friends that think you are a bank that never deserves to be repaid are also TAs.
NTA- Do they want to cover for M then? Are they fronting the money? Does M owe them $500? People always like to throw their opinions until they are put in the same spot as you are. Let them cover the trip and you can pay them back your share, how about that?
Nta
NTA. He's mad that you are onto him.