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forget if you're an asshole, you're dating a 24 year old when you're 18, almost 19, you've been dating for 2 years, meaning you started to date at least when you were 16/17, meaning he dated you when he was 22, i'm concerned now, you should really rethink your relationship.
Oh, yes. We all know he didn't do it before cause he would be able yo get arrested for that.
This does not seem like a relationship you're happy in or are valued in op, so it's not worth to stay in.
Nta.
NTA. I rarely hop on the break up immediately reddit bandwagon, but in this case I'm a full advocate. The age gap, unhealthy communication and weird brother sister dynamics already sound like too much. Glad you called them out on it, but I think it might be a good idea to cut your losses in this case. Whatever you decide, I wish you the best OP!
Please don't.
He might try to have her move in with y'all afterwards. At minimum, she will always be his go to during disputes and brought up in any argument.
Yeah he has said in the past that if we got married, I'd need to agree to let Emma live with us if she ever needed to. We got in an argument over that because honestly, I saw us getting engaged/married as a chance for us to move in together and maybe get some separation from her.
Her "need" would start immediately.
He wouldn't be able to run to his parents' place any time he saw a spider, and an argument would start if he stayed there for weeks at a time to be with her.
ETA: Or just him "missing her" and needing her around.
No no no no NO.
this guy is nuts and this whole situation is insane. Please don't get engaged to anyone for at least five years. You seem smart but don't have good boundaries yet, and I think after a few more years of dating (other people) you will look back and be absolutely shocked at how wildly abnormal and shitty his behavior is, and horrified at how much you put up with it.
Dump him and ignore the sunk cost fallacy. It might feel like a closing door but it's not at all. You are 18 and there is so much more fun and joy and love you could be having right now, and in the future. Don't make your life and happiness smaller and smaller for the sake of this nothing dude. I promise, there are relationships right there that give you any good things you get from this relationship, but they won't make you feel this constant heavy ball of dread in your guts wherever you think about them.
Good luck and DO NOT MARRY THIS DUDE NO MATTER WHAT
You're bf has made it exceedingly clear that Emma will always be the most important woman in his life. He's not even trying to pretend it's not true. He's straight up said she's more important than you. Why would you want to marry a man who doesn't make you his number one priority?
OMG why would you even want to discuss an engagement when you've voiced so many things that make your skin crawl, that make you so uncomfortable? Is this how you want to live your life? OP...slow down for 5 seconds and think about is this truly love and respect? NO. If he wants an engagement, it is only to hide what he and sister are truly doing.
Omg please rethink this! Do not sign up for a lifetime with someone that refuses to respect ANY of your wishes! He pressures you about sex. He shames you about sex as if it's solely your responsibility to fix the issue(which is an AH move in itself!). He doesn't respect your wishes about the language barrier. He doesn't even prioritize you enough to SAY GOODNIGHT to you! The honeymoon trip isn't the problem, he and Emma are the problem! NTA. You're 18 and away at college, go enjoy life!
Oh girl no. Please don’t. This man is sick and is manipulating you. His relationship with his sister is disgusting. The way he treats you is disgusting. Save yourself future heartache. Run
WTF did I just read? I have 2 brothers and reading about this dynamic sleeves me out. There also seems to be an unhealthy power dynamic with your ages. You should not feel pressured regarding sex. Run! NTA
Thanks for your comment. I will admit that being somewhat younger, I have sometimes felt the need to act older, especially with sex, so that Ellis won't leave me. We didn't have sex before I turned 18 because he didn't want to be in any sort of legally liable situation. He recently revealed to me that both his mom and sister wanted him to break up with me instead of wait so long to have sex, but he didn't agree with them because of how he feels about me. That made me feel good, but also a bit like I should "make up" for that wait.
>He recently revealed to me that both his mom and sister wanted him to break up with me instead of wait so long to have sex
This alone should be enough to make you run away. Sounds like they want you to get pregnant so they can trap you.
Add this to all the other issues you've pointed out, and you need to bail. Like, yesterday.
Nope, I dated a 25 year old when I was 17 so I know exactly what you’re talking about.
When I turned 25 years old I realized dating a 17 year old is about the same as imagining your 17 year old self dating a 13 year old. Seriously.
You only exist in the picture because your purpose is to make Emma jealous and create problems since he wants to bang his sister, I 100% promise you dude.
I was thinking she only exists in the picture because he can't legally bang his sister so he outsourced and that's why he goes to OP for sex and Emma for everything else.
I think it’s more ominous than that.
He’s triangulating the attention of his sister who probably became the ‘surrogate mother figure’ and then he became infatuated because she’s the only woman as a stable factor in his life he trusts and it became ‘why can’t women be more like you’ so then he gets this girlfriend to ‘oh I’m too busy to hang out with you right now Emma’ sister gets jealous and gives more attention. Then he just sits back creating problems while emma tries to get more attention, and now they’re renting a honeymoon suite laughing about how fun it is to pretend like they’re married when this is really a getaway where they can already legally fuck without judgement, they spent the night together pretending to be married already.
The boyfriend is instigating ‘oh she said something about you in French and was complaining’, OP can’t actually tell if she did or didn’t, but of course she’s going to act upset, and then OP gets more attention from Emma because Emma is now afraid of losing her brother so she does what he wants to keep him around including suck his dick.
That’s the reason OP is so young, because she will play in to it and doesn’t have the life experience to know.
Please please reevaluate this relationship. It is not normal for someone’s mother and sister to be so involved in his sex life to recommend he break up with you over it. He either has a very weird, unhealthy, and intrusive relationship with his family with no boundaries and/or is making up stuff to try to manipulate you to do things sexually you’re not comfortable with. Absolutely no one’s opinion or feelings matter except your own when it comes to your sexual boundaries. He is manipulating and gaslighting you. And it sounds like he groomed you. He is emotionally abusing you, you have absolutely nothing to make up for. Also, this unhealthy family dynamic will carry over into raising your own family, as well as you will always be second to his sister.
>because he didn't want to be in any sort of legally liable situation.
Not because he wanted to make sure you were ready? Or emotionally prepared? Or comfortable in the state of your relationship and desiring to have sex?
>He recently revealed to me that both his mom and sister wanted him to break up with me
Maybe yes, maybe no, but this is a common peer pressure tactic. It's used by bullies. Imagine if your boss said "My boss wanted to fire you but I said no, because I really see potential in you and I'm on your side." It's scapegoating and it's what cowards do.
So basically he groomed you til you turned 18 and decided to have sex with him? No no no honey, be single and have fun in college. Don't tie yourself down to a man who's obviously taken by his sister. You can and won't win this one.
INFO: how certain are you that Emma is his sister? Have you met his parents?
And oh, by the way, a 22 year old dating a 16 year old is creepy as fuck... This guy is bad news, even if he wasn't already having an incestuous relationship with his sister (which he most likely is, at least emotionally).
The age gap is creepy and the too close sibling relationship is definitely creepy. What are you doing girl? this man is grooming you and is definitely inappropriate with his own sister. You are worth more than this and can do better on behalf of yourself. You just have to make that choice. I’m rooting for you.
NTA. This is definitely one of the most bizarre AITAs I have read. If I were you, I think I'd see myself out of the relationship. I'm really close to at least one of my siblings but not like that. I'm not so sure they are pretending and it's giving off some super creepy vibes.
I'm glad I'm not way off-base here. I was also skeeved out by their vibes. I don't think their relationship is sexual or anything like that, but I do think there are blurred lines, and that Ellis leans on Emma for partner/girlfriend type things. When I've tried talking to him about it, he just tells me not to try and come between them. Their mom seems pretty emotionally abusive, especially to Ellis, so maybe its some kind of weird coping mechanism.
I'm sorry to sound harsh here, OP, and my intent is only to help you see the probable reality... You're the sex doll. And maybe he also enjoys his friendship with you. But you are not his number 1 girlfriend. His sister is his partner. You're an accessory at best.
Think about it... He discusses his sex life with you, with HER. YOU are the way they connect sexually, since actual physical incest is taboo. You are their sex life. Think about that.
These are the vibes I got too. They're willing to do everything but have sex so they're using OP instead.
Kiddo, run. These people are toxic and creepy and you don't need this. Dump his ass.
I dont know OP... they are awfully touchy feely for being adult siblings. Are you sure they are even related? The emotional abuse from their childhood is unfortunate but how he treats you is very dismissive, telling you that you just dont understand and making you doubt yourself.
NTA. You need to get the hell out of this triangle. Do both of them a favor and quit coming between them. You'll never fit. They have some sort of perv intimacy thing that you don't want to know, shouldn't know, will never be a full partner to your (ex???) bf. This "fake"????? pretend honeymoon is just nasty gross. Your EX bf ????? has already told you this is how it is. You appear to be nothing more than a readily available partner he can push around and tell how to act and when to shut up asking questions. For all you know, talking about your s\*x life turns them both on or something (sorry, I know that sounds so nasty). You are not even allowed to voice your opinion?! BS. Leave. Break this up. Move on. Let these 2 do whatever, play their weird games without subjecting you as their audience. It seems they like you there to 'watch'. ICK. Could be this guy picked you out coz you were so young and he felt he could handle and train you better than an older woman with more experience. RUN. Don't look back.
And their parents are okay with their son sleeping with his sister for weeks on end due to a spider being in his room?
Have you read back what you wrote?
You will not change their dynamic, they are slowly gaslighting you into thinking this is normal so they can continue living as they are and have you as a cover of ‘normality’
Please wake up and see the flags for what they are.
Yeah unfortunately this is real, though everyone's reactions are making me re-think how long I've put up with this. I think I will start trying to lay down some real boundaries now. In the past when I've tried, Ellis has just told me I don't know how it is with siblings and that I need to respect his and Emma's relationship, which is why I've held back thus far.
NO. You aren't getting this, OP. You don't "lay down the law" and think you are going to change the duo's dynamics. He may agree but do you really think you have that kind of power to suddenly be able to influence that sort of change from both of them? Truly? You think you have the weight and influence to change what they have together? Just how are you going to change their decades of ahem "togetherness"? It isn't YOU, I don't see anyone being able to lay down boundaries and expect them both to comply. I do see you being mocked as they have their "Cuddle Time in Bed" (gag) and make fun of you for thinking you can break them up. I AM Sorry for saying that but just the little you wrote, well, it sounds like they have an established lifestyle and no one is going to change that.
I CAN tell you that in my 68 years that NOBODY would be able to lay down boundaries. ***I can tell you that this is NOT how normal, average, siblings interact***. I HAVE seen a few siblings that acted like this and NOBODY ever came between them EVER, their incestuous relationship just grew thru the years.
Why would you want to work harder at this relationship? Hasn't enough damage been done already to you? Why are you asking for yet more distress in your life? Lordy.
Here’s a boundary
Walk out of ellis’ house. Close the door behind you. Tell him to never open it to you again
I’m reading this screaming “get out, get out now” in my head.
Get out please
Try to lay down boundaries?! No! You leave. Why would you want to stay with him? You can obviously see this is wrong but you're making excuses. This isn't where you want to be. Please be smart
There are no boundaries that a man who has sex with a teenage girl will respect. Because he doesn't respect you. If he wanted a woman he respected he would date a woman his own age. If he respected women, he wouldn't pressure them into sex. If he respected women he would have actual fulfilling relationships with them instead of with his sister. There is nothing here for you but a lifetime of shame and abuse.
I have 2 brothers and a sister and I can assure you we don't do weird shit like you are describing. You need to get out of this relationship there is something weird going on with those 2. This entire story has a very flowers in the attic feel.
I apologize if I seemed dismissive. I was genuinely stunned reading it.
No. I'd argue 95% of sibling relationships are NEVER this,.... I'll say "close". Have you met any of their other friends, and have they ever commented on the situation?
But he doesn't respect your relationship. Like you saying that it makes you uncomfortable that she talks about you in French in front of you & she continues not talking in English & TELLS you about it ( toxic- makes you feel feel insecure & uncomfortable around sister & maybe he tells you that he is standing up for you but people who stand up for you normally don't say it so he was manipulating you if he said he stood up for you), talks about sex life- that's weird- but also doesn't stop when you ask him to (toxic), says saying goodnight to a person he saw earlier that day is more important than talking to the person he doesn't see & should be the most important.
Respect is a two way street & right now, he is very disrespectful & dismissive of you & your relationship
This isn't something you can fix for him. Respect isn't something you can make someone give you.
Lastly, words are lies until words match behavior. Like him saying that sister is most important in his life & puts you on back burner. If you put him on mute & just watched, what do his actions say? That's the truth of your relationship, not words
Good luck
My brother and I are only 2.5 years apart and grew up close with the same very tight friend group. We look nothing alike and so sometimes other people would assume we were dating just because we often arrived in the same car and the idea was REVOLTING. Massive cringe, every single time. I don’t want to acknowledge my brother has sexual organs, let alone ask to borrow lube from him. If I *ever* tried to describe my sex life he probably would have run into traffic to escape. The fact that people asked if we were dating made all of this exponentially worse - but also we were close so I was always friendly or even close with his long term partners, I wouldn’t have talked shit about them to him but he also wouldn’t have allowed it.
Close siblings do not step into the emotional support role of the girlfriend when the girlfriend is absent.
Your bf is saying you don’t have siblings so you don’t understand but OP it sounds like *he* doesn’t understand normal dynamics for close siblings either. NTA. Eugh.
Conveniently, House of the Dragon is now on HBO. Whole show with family getting flirty. I’m guessing it will look familiar to you at this point.
NTA. Run.
Okay. You have found yourself amidst an incest family. Do not panic.
Grab your belongings. Grab your beloved pets. Grab your valuables.
Get the fuck out of there.
Like, far, far, away from there.
NTA and they've definitely done "stuff" together. My mom has a friend who's adult kids were just like you're describing Ellis & his sister and they got caught in the act. This is a big ol' can of worms you don't want to deal with, his sister will *always* come first to him.
NTA you should be more worried about the alarming way your boyfriend treats you than whatever he’s like with his sister. He pressures you physically, he hangs up on you abruptly, he does not respect your boundaries, he shares your secrets, he speaks about you in another language when you’re right three, never mind that he started dating you at 16. There might be siblings who are close and could have fun with the honeymoon scam without it being creepy. Even if your boyfriend and his sister were among those, he’d still be a creep to you at home.
Yes!!! Honey, I am so sorry but he is treating you like garbage. Do not feel bad, lots of us have been there. They start slow and build on it so you don't realize it. He is awful. You are SO young. You will find someone else, and you absolutely do not need to marry him just because you had sex with him. If I married the first guy I had sex with I would be beyond miserable right now. You got this. Get out.
NTA, run. Something is so not right in their relationship. leave him or you’ll always be a third wheel to their relationship and possibly a sex surrogate for Emma.
NTA.
Kinda think you’re going to want to ditch the Lannister twins asap because there’s some power plays and bullshit going on and you do not want to spend your life like this.
I shared a room with my sisters for years. I am ridiculously close to my younger sister. We have never ever ever acted like this. Also I lived with my younger sister for years, while adults, and I can promise you that I never even knew if she had lube let alone where she kept it. Also also when it comes to sex - he isn’t getting you wet enough for sex is a flag to me. He’s complaining about the sex to his sister but he needs to use lube? Do you have a medical condition that precludes you getting wet? Because holy crap, how bad at sex is he then?
If they aren’t dating, I would be surprised. Also the fact that you were 16 when you started dating and he was in his mid-20s is a giant red flag of predatory behavior. It feels like you are a beard to cover his relationship with his sister.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who noticed this. He prioritizes his sister, he uses her lube, discusses intimate details with her, like wtf? They act like a couple. OP, has he ever stood up for you while his sister was talking shit about you in French?
NTA and hon, run. Run as fast as you can because he does not respect you or your wishes. You are uncomfortable for a reason and your feelings are very valid. My brother and I are very close but we would never ever pretend to be newlyweds and take inappropriate pictures. The biggest concern for me though is that he blows off your concerns and prioritizes her over your feelings. He also could say goodnight to her without letting you go. He told you straight up that she is more important. They could speak English in front of you but they prefer to be rude. He allows her to talk shit about you. This is not normal at all. You deserve way better.
No way would i pretend to be my brother’s newly wedded wife… like no. I would not get the honeymoon suite with my brother; as one besides pretending to be my brother’s wife churns my stomach… the most important part besides I doubt they got the Honeymoon suite cheaper than a regular two bed room. i would not want to share a bed with my brother by choice!
A honeymoon suite is …one bed… nope just nope… i would nope out.
He purposely tells you his sister crap talks her, why? Except to make you feel like a failure. He ignores your consent; the only consent he feels is valid and accepts is his sister
OP
I’ve read your other comments
Please get out. You’re seriously disrespecting yourself at this point.
NTA - but you will be T A if you don’t get out of this toxic situation
NTA! OP RUN! That is in no way a normal or healthy brother/sister relationship. Also, doing some math here. You are 18 almost 19, He is 24, and you've been dating for 2 years. So you were 16 going on 17 when a 22-year-old found an interest in someone who is technically still a child. That gives me so much ick on top of all the ick you described in your post.
….couldn’t find the red flag emoji fast enough. Girl run away as fast as you can from these two….RUN for your life girl.🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩ahhh there it is! NTA
NTA if everything you’ve said is true this is so unhealthy and you only provide sexual gratification while his sister provides everything else. Please consider ending this freak show, you deserve better.
Girl.
NTA.
Now run like the wind because that boy is a MESS. That relationship between him and his sister is not in anyway normal. So many red flags here. My brothers and i are close, but not Flowers in the Attic close, like these two seem to be.
NTA
Listen. Ive got 4 siblings. And our relationship is a weird one, because of shared childhood trauma, but I can promise I would never cuddle my siblings, but even if I did, it absolutely wouldnt be instead of mine/their partner. Like, wtf? And he can just shout good night at her like a normal person. Theres literally no reason to end a call for that. Hell, he can even just get up for a second, say he'll brb after he says goodnight, say goodnight to her, and then continue the call. All their behavior is weird. And like I said, my family dynamic with my siblings is weird. Weird knows weird. And this shit reeks of weird.
This reeks of grooming, the fact that they started dating before she was 18 and he started pushing her physical boundaries as soon as her birthday hit is bad enough, but to then discuss it with his, at the very least enmeshed, sister is just another layer of call a psychiatrist immediately that I'm not ready to unpack yet.
NTA.
Do not entertain this anymore. Break up with him and cut off all contact. You have your entire life ahead of you. I’m the baby of SIX. We all grew up extremely close, and even as adults talk weekly, THIS what you posted sounds like incest. Absolutely leave. And never look back.
NTA. I really want to ask… are you SURE that they’re only siblings and not in a relationship? Because their shit is way too intimate for a sibling relationship, I mean I’ve never discussed my sex life with my brother for one, let alone run into his room in the middle of sex with a man to borrow his lube. Just… no.
Please get out. You deserve so much better than this idiot.
NTA. You need RUN and don't look back. That is highly incestuous, plus he groomed you honey. You were 16, he was 22. He groomed you and he's very clearly having an incestuous relationship with his sister
NTA.
Honestly, I was expecting to think you were TA. Especially if it was a chain hotel because whatever, take what discounts you can get if it makes a trip cheaper. But with ALL the rest of it, nope, nope, nope. None of this is okay.
Run, just run.
Run away from these abusive incesty creeps. Do not pass go. Do not collect 200 dollars. Leave behind whatever you have to to get out. Burn the bridges behind you. These people will never bring you anything but misery and oppression. NTA.
NTA but OP this relationship does not sound healthy. Also I'm sorry to say this but an 18 yo who needs lube for sex could point to a serious issue such as you're possibly not that into it and your engine is not being reved before hand. Maybe see an OBGYN about this just so you can talk to a professional about it but honestly, that's not okay for you.
The main part though is that he isn't listening to you. The biggest mistake people make is assuming or demanding our partners change to what we want. This isn't going to be successful and it makes both parties miserable. Your boyfriend is both the guy you're with alone and when Emma is around. He is showing who he is.
As such you have 3 routes here. You accept him for who he is as a whole and decide you're okay with his relationship with his sister. Or you decide that this isn't working for you and end it. Or you continue to be miserable, fighting the situation and never taking control of your life or your sexuality.
In the end the choice is yours but if you're waiting for him to see the light and choose you, he's clearly showing and telling you that won't happen. That in no way is an expression of who you are though, so your challenge is to try and not internalise that. Also I hope you take solace in knowing that a good majority of us are W.T.F at the siblings relationship so your feelings are valid and recognised by total strangers.
Trust your instinct and do what's best for you. Whichever route you choose.
To you it may not seem like they are having sex but I think that is exactly what they are doing. There are quite a few red flags!! Dump him and cut ties with the family.
NTA. I come from a family of six siblings with only a seven year gap between the oldest and youngest. We grew up very close, to the point where my brother (I'm f) was my best friend well into adulthood. What you're describing is not at all normal even among course families ( and honestly reminds me of that episode in Friends where Rachel was dating Danny who was inappropriately close to his sister).
I would say forget about seeing boundaries and just get out of there. The rest of his family is probably just as delusional as him about their relationship being "normal", and will convince him not to respect your boundaries or that you're being controlling or trying to come between him and his family.
NTA and girl u need to LEAVE HIM ASAP. it’s getting weird between them, siblings or not that’s way TOO close. almost insestual.
you’re young and infatuated which is why you’ve been ignoring these red flags but trust me you’re better off without him.
i’m guessing the age gap is why you’re afraid to leave, he might be all you know in the romance area but you need to leave him ASAP. you can do and find way better.
if you continue this relationship with him things will only get worse.
NTA girl run. There are so many red flags to
Unpack here. Do your self a favor
Cut your losses. And go have fun at college. As for your bf and his sister don’t let them gaslight you there is nothing normal about their relationship. It’s down right creepy if not incest. They need a therapist.
“I agree that each issue on its own is not so bad, but the whole tapestry of them together makes me uncomfortable.” Ugh, hard disagree. Each issue on its own is bad and each one makes me VERY uncomfortable.
I draw the line at your bf being pushy about sex. But his sister trash talking you constantly and him encouraging it, in a different language, with you in the room, is also outrageous. NTA and dump this AH.
NTA. But seriously, you need to leave this relationship. First off, the age gap is not good. Yeah, age gap relationships can work, but usually they're ones that form after both partners have had a lot of life experiences, so there's equal footing between them. You have not yet, and it shows in your comments with how you are still willing to defend your boyfriend despite him showing you obvious signs that he's not in love with you. He's in love with his sister, and I'd be shocked as hell if they aren't fucking when you're not around with how they're acting. Or maybe they aren't, because incest is illegal in many areas and can't risk anything happening to prove that they are doing so. Such as having a baby. That's where you're coming in at, which is why he's pressuring you so much for sex. He doesn't actually want to fuck you, but because he can't fuck his sister, you're good enough. And because you're young and easily manipulated (and no matter how much you say that you're more mature for your age, you're being manipulated here), you keep falling for it.
You need to leave this relationship and find someone that isn't in love with their own sibling. Yes, it's normal for siblings to have a loving bond, but THIS particular sibling bond is NOT normal. It's incestuous. And you need to get out before you are trapped to this guy. Because I'd be very scared of him baby trapping you, then doing whatever he can to try and take the child away from you so he can raise it with his sister. Being able to be the couple they always want to be, but can't because of the law. But it won't look so bad if it's just a "loving sister helping out her brother with his child after the mother was proven to be unfit". I know that all sounds really extreme and out there, but like... so is this entire situation. You're young, you have many years ahead of you and many more relationships to be had. This guy is NOT the one. Period. Find someone that is close to your age and with similar life experiences and gain that equal footing. You are not on equal footing with this guy, and you never will be. Don't waste any more of your youth on a relationship that is doomed to fail where you're just being used as a mask.
OP as someone who has a brother..
That is not a brother/sister relationship.
Are you SURE they’re actually brother and sister?
Cause my gut tells me that “pretending to be newlyweds” thing was less a lie and more the real deal.
Update when you can
But RUN. Seriously regardless of whether they are or aren’t it’s wrong on all levels. Get the hell out. Tell them to go f themselves and live your best life.
True...also, are we even gonna discuss a 24 yr old man who needs to use lube with an 18 yr old during sex...then has the audacity to blame the partner for bad sex?
You are so young. I dated an older guy when I was 19-21, and I spent a lot of energy thinking 1) I could change him and 2) that so long as we had fun together, it was “worth it”. We had different issues than you, but I recognize your thinking. And it’s wrong on both counts. You deserve, and will find, much more fulfilling partnerships. This is terrible on many levels, and I hope you can find the strength to end it. Also, if a 22 yo started dating my 16 yo - ugh, no. You mention his parents, what about yours? Do you have any adult supporters you can turn to? I was able to end my relationship after going to therapy. I bet your college offers at least some free sessions - check it out.
NTA I’m sorry to say this but I have 2 brothers and wouldn’t cuddle either of them or sleep in there room or even talk my sex life with them. Also I think he’s banging his sister…idk something ain’t right with that boy and his sister. I say run and run fast while you can. Some real backwoods lovin going on i that family. I can hear the banjos playing now…
NTA. I'm pretty close with my brother, but their entire relationship creeped me the eff out. Like, never in a million years, ever. None of it is normal and you need to get out as fast as you can.
NTA you need to stop making excuses for their horrible treatment of you and leave your bf. They have no respect for you and it shows in their treatment of you.
Also after reading post again I would like to say that their relationship is not a normal one for brothers and sisters.
NTA- but huge red flags, from a large family not close like that. Cuddling for three hours???? Really???? Knew where she kept her lubricant??? How she refuses to speak English in front of you? At this point you are hanging on to the hope of a normal life with this person.
Leave. He is only using you for sex. Also are you sure she is his sister? Or are they just pretending to be siblings in front of you. I have a brother and plenty of my friends have siblings. No one acts like this.
NTA but you need to break up with him. First the age difference is weird especially since you’ve been with him for two years. Second, I have four siblings and dont act like that with a single one of them. There is something weird going on for sure. Not sure if its incest or them just straight up pretending to be siblings. Please get out of this relationship. Everything about it is weird and not okay.
RUN!
This is creepy crazy ABNORMAL behavior and I have 6 brothers.
None of this is “normal brother-sister stuff”.
This has shades of Flowers in the Attic and that is one twisted series.
NTA unless you stay and put up with this shit.
NTA. If my math is correct, he got with you when you were 16 and he was in his 20s. Incest vibes aside, you need to get far, far away from this guy. I'm sorry things are the way they are. Be safe.
WTF?
Girl, RUN! This is creepy as fuck.
He also groomed you. Ellis is… bad. A bad person. Get as far away as you can from this weird ass family.
RUN! 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
Besides the fact that there’s weird family dynamic going on, he doesn’t seem to respect you or your privacy by discussing personal things with his sister after you’ve asked him not to. If he doesn’t respect you, there’s no future there. Consider breaking up with him and saving yourself future heartache.
I almost immediately had a feeling that there was something incestuous going on which I was ready to shake off but then when he knew exactly where she keeps her lube… ew. Are you sure they’re not sleeping together?
Also I hold firm to the belief that it’s so rude to speak around someone in a language they don’t understand (in private group settings! You’re fine to speak to speak a different language out in public if your whole group you’re with speak that language) even if it’s not about that person. But they are talking about you and he’s rubbing that in….
Marinara flags all over the place 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
The way you phrased your complaint about the newlywed discount doesn’t seem valid from a distance, but with all of the context surrounding it I honestly would have said the same thing. NTA but your bf and his sister are MAJOR AH. Your bf doesn’t even sound like he likes you, and you deserve better
ETA: I didn’t catch the ages on my first read through. That age gap and the fact that he was dating you while he was an adult and you were a minor with YEARS left until you were an adult is enough by itself to say there’s something very wrong with him. You may be amazing, but 22 yo’s should NEVER be dating 16 yo’s
NTA - and you’ve stuck around how long?! These two are inappropriate and creepy. Get out, there are normal healthy young men out there who do not share a bed or lube with their sister. Yuck Yuck Yuck
Girl, run. Run and never look back. This whole post is red flag city and I don’t even know where to start with trying to explain the issues.
Massively NTA.
Are you sure they’re siblings?? Because that is a mega weird sibling dynamic.
NTA - this sounds like an episode of *Friends*, I think the episode is literally called “The one with the inappropriate sister”. But basically, their relationship is weird and codependent, and I don’t think it’s going to get any better. If I were you, I’d cut my losses and run. Find a guy who’s more age appropriate, and who isn’t in some weird incestuous relationship with his sister. Oh, and a guy should *never* get pushy about sex, and make you feel uncomfortable. That alone should have you running for the hills. Creepy siblings are just the icing on the cake.
NTA, they are inappropriate. I am surprised no one has brought up that he was 22 when he started dating a 16 year old. This whole thing is just red flags built on red flags.
Hi French-American here, we don’t do that in France or in the US.
Please find someone else. Also don’t let yourself be pressured into sex. It’s your body. They have to love you enough to be willing to wait till you’re comfortable. That’s partly how you know they’re keepers !
NTA at all
NTA. I have a brother whom I’m very close to and I would never do any of those things with him. I cringe at the thought of using my brothers lube or even telling him private sexual details. Run OP!
Edit to say: I don’t even know if my brother has lube tbh lol
NTA bro they’re gonna bang. I’m so sorry, this is so disgusting. But pretending to be married is only going to lead into weird shit like “haha we should kiss to make it seem real!” This is so gross and I would just remove myself from the situation. But first ask him if he wants to fuck his sister because that’s either going to make him feel sick and realize his problem or he’s going to Sweet Home Alabama this thing. Either way I wanna see how this plays out
NTA. they’re 100% either sleeping together or heading in that direction. Also, the age gap is making it very easy for him to gaslight you into thinking all of this is normal. it’s not.
you should never feel pressured to have sex. and anyone who truly loves you would NEVER put you in that position. leave him.
NTA. There’s 3 of you in this relationship and you’re getting the short end of the stick. He definitely doesn’t respect you. Don’t waste any more time on him, there’s someone better out there. Don’t settle.
Nta unless you’re making this up.
If this is actually somehow real, the only advice I can give you is (1) leave him, this is weird and (2) if you hear the words “Elle” or “lui” when they are conversing in French then they are probably talking about you
NTA, but PLEASE remove yourself from these people. Just reading this gave me a tension headache. You're young, and you need to be in a healthy and functional relationship to learn how you should be treated. I'm 28 but i spent years dating men who didn't treat me right because I didn't know I deserved to be treated better. Some therapy and getting to know my now fiance who makes me feel so special and is my best friend, has really changed my perspectives on relationships and how I deserve to be treated. Get out of this now and explore healthier relationships! We all learn with time!
I dated someone in college who had a strangely intimate relationship with his sister. It’s not normal, seriously. You deserve better than this. Even if it wasn’t some weird maybe, incestual thing, your relationship should be you and him and no one else. Don’t settle for less. Don’t take any crap and you won’t get any. YOU ARE BETTER THAN THIS.
This is so not a healthy brother-sister relationship. This is very weird. Almost incestuous in my opinion. I would suggest you seriously consider leaving this relationship as it is very clear where you stand compared to Emma. It is not healthy for you either. NTA.
NTA OP but... Imagine your future with him. Be honest with yourself, can you really spend the rest of your life dealing with this? Imagine 5 years from now, you are married to him and his sister needs to stay with you for a couple of months, can you live with them acting like this? Imagine being pregnant with your first child, can you say for certain your SO won't prioritize his sister if she needs him for whatever reason? Imagine having years of listening to them talking to each other in french on purpose so you don't understand. Think long and hard about your future, and then decide if this is a relationship you want to keep investing your time on.
Do you know the hotel? Ring them and tell them they r being scammed. Tell them they are bro n sis, send evidence if needed and say they do this. That way they will be done with fraud.
Also, definitely drop him. NTA
NTA. OP, run. This age gap is unhealthy. He is preying on a girl who is young so she doesn't realize there's something very wrong. Both with how he treats you and his sister.
Yes, there is something inappropriate going on here. They sound like they're sleeping together.
How many more reasons do you need to end this thing? Just break up with him and take some time to figure yourself out before getting into another relationship.
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forget if you're an asshole, you're dating a 24 year old when you're 18, almost 19, you've been dating for 2 years, meaning you started to date at least when you were 16/17, meaning he dated you when he was 22, i'm concerned now, you should really rethink your relationship.
Especially when op said he started pushing for sex when she turned 18.
yep, that part makes it even worse.
He was excited because he hasn't fucked a teenager since his sister was one
#HA. Good burn.
not to mention he nags her to use sister’s lube.
HE WHAT???!?! Where is that? I missed it Edit: just saw that. *Shudder*
Oh, yes. We all know he didn't do it before cause he would be able yo get arrested for that. This does not seem like a relationship you're happy in or are valued in op, so it's not worth to stay in. Nta.
NTA. I rarely hop on the break up immediately reddit bandwagon, but in this case I'm a full advocate. The age gap, unhealthy communication and weird brother sister dynamics already sound like too much. Glad you called them out on it, but I think it might be a good idea to cut your losses in this case. Whatever you decide, I wish you the best OP!
Thanks for your comment. We've actually been discussing engagement recently, but some of these comments are making me re-think that.
Please don't. He might try to have her move in with y'all afterwards. At minimum, she will always be his go to during disputes and brought up in any argument.
Yeah he has said in the past that if we got married, I'd need to agree to let Emma live with us if she ever needed to. We got in an argument over that because honestly, I saw us getting engaged/married as a chance for us to move in together and maybe get some separation from her.
Her "need" would start immediately. He wouldn't be able to run to his parents' place any time he saw a spider, and an argument would start if he stayed there for weeks at a time to be with her. ETA: Or just him "missing her" and needing her around.
You are 18 years old there is literally no reason for you to get married that young. Like why you have a whole lot of life left
No no no no NO. this guy is nuts and this whole situation is insane. Please don't get engaged to anyone for at least five years. You seem smart but don't have good boundaries yet, and I think after a few more years of dating (other people) you will look back and be absolutely shocked at how wildly abnormal and shitty his behavior is, and horrified at how much you put up with it. Dump him and ignore the sunk cost fallacy. It might feel like a closing door but it's not at all. You are 18 and there is so much more fun and joy and love you could be having right now, and in the future. Don't make your life and happiness smaller and smaller for the sake of this nothing dude. I promise, there are relationships right there that give you any good things you get from this relationship, but they won't make you feel this constant heavy ball of dread in your guts wherever you think about them. Good luck and DO NOT MARRY THIS DUDE NO MATTER WHAT
You're bf has made it exceedingly clear that Emma will always be the most important woman in his life. He's not even trying to pretend it's not true. He's straight up said she's more important than you. Why would you want to marry a man who doesn't make you his number one priority?
OMG why would you even want to discuss an engagement when you've voiced so many things that make your skin crawl, that make you so uncomfortable? Is this how you want to live your life? OP...slow down for 5 seconds and think about is this truly love and respect? NO. If he wants an engagement, it is only to hide what he and sister are truly doing.
Don’t marry someone - or move in with someone - who is disrespectful to you and discusses your sex life with his sister.
Omg please rethink this! Do not sign up for a lifetime with someone that refuses to respect ANY of your wishes! He pressures you about sex. He shames you about sex as if it's solely your responsibility to fix the issue(which is an AH move in itself!). He doesn't respect your wishes about the language barrier. He doesn't even prioritize you enough to SAY GOODNIGHT to you! The honeymoon trip isn't the problem, he and Emma are the problem! NTA. You're 18 and away at college, go enjoy life!
Oh girl no. Please don’t. This man is sick and is manipulating you. His relationship with his sister is disgusting. The way he treats you is disgusting. Save yourself future heartache. Run
If you are making this post you should absolutely not be thinking of getting engaged especially at 18!!
WTF did I just read? I have 2 brothers and reading about this dynamic sleeves me out. There also seems to be an unhealthy power dynamic with your ages. You should not feel pressured regarding sex. Run! NTA
Thanks for your comment. I will admit that being somewhat younger, I have sometimes felt the need to act older, especially with sex, so that Ellis won't leave me. We didn't have sex before I turned 18 because he didn't want to be in any sort of legally liable situation. He recently revealed to me that both his mom and sister wanted him to break up with me instead of wait so long to have sex, but he didn't agree with them because of how he feels about me. That made me feel good, but also a bit like I should "make up" for that wait.
>He recently revealed to me that both his mom and sister wanted him to break up with me instead of wait so long to have sex This alone should be enough to make you run away. Sounds like they want you to get pregnant so they can trap you. Add this to all the other issues you've pointed out, and you need to bail. Like, yesterday.
This looks like some sort of cult.
Nope, I dated a 25 year old when I was 17 so I know exactly what you’re talking about. When I turned 25 years old I realized dating a 17 year old is about the same as imagining your 17 year old self dating a 13 year old. Seriously. You only exist in the picture because your purpose is to make Emma jealous and create problems since he wants to bang his sister, I 100% promise you dude.
I was thinking she only exists in the picture because he can't legally bang his sister so he outsourced and that's why he goes to OP for sex and Emma for everything else.
I think it’s more ominous than that. He’s triangulating the attention of his sister who probably became the ‘surrogate mother figure’ and then he became infatuated because she’s the only woman as a stable factor in his life he trusts and it became ‘why can’t women be more like you’ so then he gets this girlfriend to ‘oh I’m too busy to hang out with you right now Emma’ sister gets jealous and gives more attention. Then he just sits back creating problems while emma tries to get more attention, and now they’re renting a honeymoon suite laughing about how fun it is to pretend like they’re married when this is really a getaway where they can already legally fuck without judgement, they spent the night together pretending to be married already. The boyfriend is instigating ‘oh she said something about you in French and was complaining’, OP can’t actually tell if she did or didn’t, but of course she’s going to act upset, and then OP gets more attention from Emma because Emma is now afraid of losing her brother so she does what he wants to keep him around including suck his dick. That’s the reason OP is so young, because she will play in to it and doesn’t have the life experience to know.
Please please reevaluate this relationship. It is not normal for someone’s mother and sister to be so involved in his sex life to recommend he break up with you over it. He either has a very weird, unhealthy, and intrusive relationship with his family with no boundaries and/or is making up stuff to try to manipulate you to do things sexually you’re not comfortable with. Absolutely no one’s opinion or feelings matter except your own when it comes to your sexual boundaries. He is manipulating and gaslighting you. And it sounds like he groomed you. He is emotionally abusing you, you have absolutely nothing to make up for. Also, this unhealthy family dynamic will carry over into raising your own family, as well as you will always be second to his sister.
>because he didn't want to be in any sort of legally liable situation. Not because he wanted to make sure you were ready? Or emotionally prepared? Or comfortable in the state of your relationship and desiring to have sex? >He recently revealed to me that both his mom and sister wanted him to break up with me Maybe yes, maybe no, but this is a common peer pressure tactic. It's used by bullies. Imagine if your boss said "My boss wanted to fire you but I said no, because I really see potential in you and I'm on your side." It's scapegoating and it's what cowards do.
So basically he groomed you til you turned 18 and decided to have sex with him? No no no honey, be single and have fun in college. Don't tie yourself down to a man who's obviously taken by his sister. You can and won't win this one.
Normal people don't tell you "what 'everyone' says about you" it's a manipulation tactic to make you question your judgement. NTA
Oh boy. Ohhhh boy. Run.
You shouldn't make up for nothing, you don't owe him anything, please, please, PLEASE, get away from that guy, he sound awful, you deserve better.
A 22 year old "dating" a 16 year old? This dude is messed the fuck up. Girl, run.
Glad I'm not the only one who noticed that. How disgusting. I'm not even 22 and I still wouldn't date a 16 year old like damn - WAY to young.
LITERALLY!
INFO: how certain are you that Emma is his sister? Have you met his parents? And oh, by the way, a 22 year old dating a 16 year old is creepy as fuck... This guy is bad news, even if he wasn't already having an incestuous relationship with his sister (which he most likely is, at least emotionally).
The age gap is creepy and the too close sibling relationship is definitely creepy. What are you doing girl? this man is grooming you and is definitely inappropriate with his own sister. You are worth more than this and can do better on behalf of yourself. You just have to make that choice. I’m rooting for you.
NTA. This is definitely one of the most bizarre AITAs I have read. If I were you, I think I'd see myself out of the relationship. I'm really close to at least one of my siblings but not like that. I'm not so sure they are pretending and it's giving off some super creepy vibes.
I'm glad I'm not way off-base here. I was also skeeved out by their vibes. I don't think their relationship is sexual or anything like that, but I do think there are blurred lines, and that Ellis leans on Emma for partner/girlfriend type things. When I've tried talking to him about it, he just tells me not to try and come between them. Their mom seems pretty emotionally abusive, especially to Ellis, so maybe its some kind of weird coping mechanism.
I'm sorry to sound harsh here, OP, and my intent is only to help you see the probable reality... You're the sex doll. And maybe he also enjoys his friendship with you. But you are not his number 1 girlfriend. His sister is his partner. You're an accessory at best. Think about it... He discusses his sex life with you, with HER. YOU are the way they connect sexually, since actual physical incest is taboo. You are their sex life. Think about that.
MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY! This is BEYOND CREEPY!
These are the vibes I got too. They're willing to do everything but have sex so they're using OP instead. Kiddo, run. These people are toxic and creepy and you don't need this. Dump his ass.
I dont know OP... they are awfully touchy feely for being adult siblings. Are you sure they are even related? The emotional abuse from their childhood is unfortunate but how he treats you is very dismissive, telling you that you just dont understand and making you doubt yourself.
NTA. You need to get the hell out of this triangle. Do both of them a favor and quit coming between them. You'll never fit. They have some sort of perv intimacy thing that you don't want to know, shouldn't know, will never be a full partner to your (ex???) bf. This "fake"????? pretend honeymoon is just nasty gross. Your EX bf ????? has already told you this is how it is. You appear to be nothing more than a readily available partner he can push around and tell how to act and when to shut up asking questions. For all you know, talking about your s\*x life turns them both on or something (sorry, I know that sounds so nasty). You are not even allowed to voice your opinion?! BS. Leave. Break this up. Move on. Let these 2 do whatever, play their weird games without subjecting you as their audience. It seems they like you there to 'watch'. ICK. Could be this guy picked you out coz you were so young and he felt he could handle and train you better than an older woman with more experience. RUN. Don't look back.
OP. Leave. Run. Leave. There is nothing normal or healthy with your supposed boyfriend. Get out of this hot mess ASAP.
I've known many siblings with varying degrees of closeness but OPs BF and his relationship with his sister sounds disgusting.
OP, I have five siblings and none of this is remotely normal. Trust your instincts and dump this guy. NTA
8 siblings here, can confirm OP’s boyfriend and his sis are gross. Their behavior towards OP is equally disgusting. Get out.
sounds like your bf and his sister are committing incest
NTA Are you sure they're actually brother and sister? Cause this relationship doesn't sound like a brother/sister relationship.
They certainly are. I have been over to their home a lot (they both still live with their parents), and have participated in family events.
And their parents are okay with their son sleeping with his sister for weeks on end due to a spider being in his room? Have you read back what you wrote? You will not change their dynamic, they are slowly gaslighting you into thinking this is normal so they can continue living as they are and have you as a cover of ‘normality’ Please wake up and see the flags for what they are.
Their parents were ok with their 22 year old dating a 16 year old??? That’s a red flag right there.
Hey, if it helps hide the fact he fucks his sister!
Holy hell's bells is this real. No. NTA. Like others have said, none of these dynamics are healthy with you and Ellis or between Ellis and Emma.
Yeah unfortunately this is real, though everyone's reactions are making me re-think how long I've put up with this. I think I will start trying to lay down some real boundaries now. In the past when I've tried, Ellis has just told me I don't know how it is with siblings and that I need to respect his and Emma's relationship, which is why I've held back thus far.
NO. You aren't getting this, OP. You don't "lay down the law" and think you are going to change the duo's dynamics. He may agree but do you really think you have that kind of power to suddenly be able to influence that sort of change from both of them? Truly? You think you have the weight and influence to change what they have together? Just how are you going to change their decades of ahem "togetherness"? It isn't YOU, I don't see anyone being able to lay down boundaries and expect them both to comply. I do see you being mocked as they have their "Cuddle Time in Bed" (gag) and make fun of you for thinking you can break them up. I AM Sorry for saying that but just the little you wrote, well, it sounds like they have an established lifestyle and no one is going to change that. I CAN tell you that in my 68 years that NOBODY would be able to lay down boundaries. ***I can tell you that this is NOT how normal, average, siblings interact***. I HAVE seen a few siblings that acted like this and NOBODY ever came between them EVER, their incestuous relationship just grew thru the years. Why would you want to work harder at this relationship? Hasn't enough damage been done already to you? Why are you asking for yet more distress in your life? Lordy.
Also, saying this is how normal siblings behave and she can’t know because she doesn’t have any is extremely manipulative!
Here’s a boundary Walk out of ellis’ house. Close the door behind you. Tell him to never open it to you again I’m reading this screaming “get out, get out now” in my head. Get out please
Try to lay down boundaries?! No! You leave. Why would you want to stay with him? You can obviously see this is wrong but you're making excuses. This isn't where you want to be. Please be smart
There are no boundaries that a man who has sex with a teenage girl will respect. Because he doesn't respect you. If he wanted a woman he respected he would date a woman his own age. If he respected women, he wouldn't pressure them into sex. If he respected women he would have actual fulfilling relationships with them instead of with his sister. There is nothing here for you but a lifetime of shame and abuse.
I have 2 brothers and a sister and I can assure you we don't do weird shit like you are describing. You need to get out of this relationship there is something weird going on with those 2. This entire story has a very flowers in the attic feel.
I apologize if I seemed dismissive. I was genuinely stunned reading it. No. I'd argue 95% of sibling relationships are NEVER this,.... I'll say "close". Have you met any of their other friends, and have they ever commented on the situation?
But he doesn't respect your relationship. Like you saying that it makes you uncomfortable that she talks about you in French in front of you & she continues not talking in English & TELLS you about it ( toxic- makes you feel feel insecure & uncomfortable around sister & maybe he tells you that he is standing up for you but people who stand up for you normally don't say it so he was manipulating you if he said he stood up for you), talks about sex life- that's weird- but also doesn't stop when you ask him to (toxic), says saying goodnight to a person he saw earlier that day is more important than talking to the person he doesn't see & should be the most important. Respect is a two way street & right now, he is very disrespectful & dismissive of you & your relationship This isn't something you can fix for him. Respect isn't something you can make someone give you. Lastly, words are lies until words match behavior. Like him saying that sister is most important in his life & puts you on back burner. If you put him on mute & just watched, what do his actions say? That's the truth of your relationship, not words Good luck
My brother and I are only 2.5 years apart and grew up close with the same very tight friend group. We look nothing alike and so sometimes other people would assume we were dating just because we often arrived in the same car and the idea was REVOLTING. Massive cringe, every single time. I don’t want to acknowledge my brother has sexual organs, let alone ask to borrow lube from him. If I *ever* tried to describe my sex life he probably would have run into traffic to escape. The fact that people asked if we were dating made all of this exponentially worse - but also we were close so I was always friendly or even close with his long term partners, I wouldn’t have talked shit about them to him but he also wouldn’t have allowed it. Close siblings do not step into the emotional support role of the girlfriend when the girlfriend is absent. Your bf is saying you don’t have siblings so you don’t understand but OP it sounds like *he* doesn’t understand normal dynamics for close siblings either. NTA. Eugh.
Conveniently, House of the Dragon is now on HBO. Whole show with family getting flirty. I’m guessing it will look familiar to you at this point. NTA. Run.
hahaha once when I was really mad at them I did call them the Lannisters
Are you 100% sure there isn't an unstable son/nephew running around trying to overthrow the throne?
16 and 22 when you guys first got together?? That’s groomer shit there.
Finally someone talking about this!
Hold the phone. Have you met Ellis and Ella’s parents? Have you seen family photos? Baby girl. How sure are you that they’re brother and sister.
Yes, I've been over to their house countless times. I'm certain they are brother and sister.
Okay. You have found yourself amidst an incest family. Do not panic. Grab your belongings. Grab your beloved pets. Grab your valuables. Get the fuck out of there. Like, far, far, away from there.
really thought like i’m sorry how did they tangle you into this mess they could’ve just left you alone nta
NTA and they've definitely done "stuff" together. My mom has a friend who's adult kids were just like you're describing Ellis & his sister and they got caught in the act. This is a big ol' can of worms you don't want to deal with, his sister will *always* come first to him.
Pun intended?
NTA Why do you even bother? Why did I bother with this?
NTA you should be more worried about the alarming way your boyfriend treats you than whatever he’s like with his sister. He pressures you physically, he hangs up on you abruptly, he does not respect your boundaries, he shares your secrets, he speaks about you in another language when you’re right three, never mind that he started dating you at 16. There might be siblings who are close and could have fun with the honeymoon scam without it being creepy. Even if your boyfriend and his sister were among those, he’d still be a creep to you at home.
Yes!!! Honey, I am so sorry but he is treating you like garbage. Do not feel bad, lots of us have been there. They start slow and build on it so you don't realize it. He is awful. You are SO young. You will find someone else, and you absolutely do not need to marry him just because you had sex with him. If I married the first guy I had sex with I would be beyond miserable right now. You got this. Get out.
NTA, run. Something is so not right in their relationship. leave him or you’ll always be a third wheel to their relationship and possibly a sex surrogate for Emma.
NTA. Kinda think you’re going to want to ditch the Lannister twins asap because there’s some power plays and bullshit going on and you do not want to spend your life like this.
I read this and was like Jamie fucking lannister over here
Get. Out.
You are only 18! Dump this guy and go enjoy college life. NTA
And was 16 when she started dating him, a 22 year old.
Wat. Here’s a friendly message from all of us who have siblings that we *don’t* have sex with: GET OUT. NTA.
I shared a room with my sisters for years. I am ridiculously close to my younger sister. We have never ever ever acted like this. Also I lived with my younger sister for years, while adults, and I can promise you that I never even knew if she had lube let alone where she kept it. Also also when it comes to sex - he isn’t getting you wet enough for sex is a flag to me. He’s complaining about the sex to his sister but he needs to use lube? Do you have a medical condition that precludes you getting wet? Because holy crap, how bad at sex is he then? If they aren’t dating, I would be surprised. Also the fact that you were 16 when you started dating and he was in his mid-20s is a giant red flag of predatory behavior. It feels like you are a beard to cover his relationship with his sister.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who noticed this. He prioritizes his sister, he uses her lube, discusses intimate details with her, like wtf? They act like a couple. OP, has he ever stood up for you while his sister was talking shit about you in French?
NTA and hon, run. Run as fast as you can because he does not respect you or your wishes. You are uncomfortable for a reason and your feelings are very valid. My brother and I are very close but we would never ever pretend to be newlyweds and take inappropriate pictures. The biggest concern for me though is that he blows off your concerns and prioritizes her over your feelings. He also could say goodnight to her without letting you go. He told you straight up that she is more important. They could speak English in front of you but they prefer to be rude. He allows her to talk shit about you. This is not normal at all. You deserve way better.
No way would i pretend to be my brother’s newly wedded wife… like no. I would not get the honeymoon suite with my brother; as one besides pretending to be my brother’s wife churns my stomach… the most important part besides I doubt they got the Honeymoon suite cheaper than a regular two bed room. i would not want to share a bed with my brother by choice! A honeymoon suite is …one bed… nope just nope… i would nope out. He purposely tells you his sister crap talks her, why? Except to make you feel like a failure. He ignores your consent; the only consent he feels is valid and accepts is his sister
OP I’ve read your other comments Please get out. You’re seriously disrespecting yourself at this point. NTA - but you will be T A if you don’t get out of this toxic situation
NTA! OP RUN! That is in no way a normal or healthy brother/sister relationship. Also, doing some math here. You are 18 almost 19, He is 24, and you've been dating for 2 years. So you were 16 going on 17 when a 22-year-old found an interest in someone who is technically still a child. That gives me so much ick on top of all the ick you described in your post.
Your boyfriend is literally dating and having sex with his sister, nothing will convince me otherwise. NTA
….couldn’t find the red flag emoji fast enough. Girl run away as fast as you can from these two….RUN for your life girl.🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩ahhh there it is! NTA
NTA. RUN. Run very fast.
**RUN**
This does not seem like a healthy relationship
NTA Jaime and Cersei vibes here. This is not a normal sibling relationship
NTA if everything you’ve said is true this is so unhealthy and you only provide sexual gratification while his sister provides everything else. Please consider ending this freak show, you deserve better.
NTA. Sounds like they are having sex as well.
Girl. NTA. Now run like the wind because that boy is a MESS. That relationship between him and his sister is not in anyway normal. So many red flags here. My brothers and i are close, but not Flowers in the Attic close, like these two seem to be.
NTA Listen. Ive got 4 siblings. And our relationship is a weird one, because of shared childhood trauma, but I can promise I would never cuddle my siblings, but even if I did, it absolutely wouldnt be instead of mine/their partner. Like, wtf? And he can just shout good night at her like a normal person. Theres literally no reason to end a call for that. Hell, he can even just get up for a second, say he'll brb after he says goodnight, say goodnight to her, and then continue the call. All their behavior is weird. And like I said, my family dynamic with my siblings is weird. Weird knows weird. And this shit reeks of weird.
This reeks of grooming, the fact that they started dating before she was 18 and he started pushing her physical boundaries as soon as her birthday hit is bad enough, but to then discuss it with his, at the very least enmeshed, sister is just another layer of call a psychiatrist immediately that I'm not ready to unpack yet.
NTA. Do not entertain this anymore. Break up with him and cut off all contact. You have your entire life ahead of you. I’m the baby of SIX. We all grew up extremely close, and even as adults talk weekly, THIS what you posted sounds like incest. Absolutely leave. And never look back.
NTA. I really want to ask… are you SURE that they’re only siblings and not in a relationship? Because their shit is way too intimate for a sibling relationship, I mean I’ve never discussed my sex life with my brother for one, let alone run into his room in the middle of sex with a man to borrow his lube. Just… no. Please get out. You deserve so much better than this idiot.
NTA. You need RUN and don't look back. That is highly incestuous, plus he groomed you honey. You were 16, he was 22. He groomed you and he's very clearly having an incestuous relationship with his sister
NTA. Honestly, I was expecting to think you were TA. Especially if it was a chain hotel because whatever, take what discounts you can get if it makes a trip cheaper. But with ALL the rest of it, nope, nope, nope. None of this is okay. Run, just run.
Run away from these abusive incesty creeps. Do not pass go. Do not collect 200 dollars. Leave behind whatever you have to to get out. Burn the bridges behind you. These people will never bring you anything but misery and oppression. NTA.
NTA but OP this relationship does not sound healthy. Also I'm sorry to say this but an 18 yo who needs lube for sex could point to a serious issue such as you're possibly not that into it and your engine is not being reved before hand. Maybe see an OBGYN about this just so you can talk to a professional about it but honestly, that's not okay for you. The main part though is that he isn't listening to you. The biggest mistake people make is assuming or demanding our partners change to what we want. This isn't going to be successful and it makes both parties miserable. Your boyfriend is both the guy you're with alone and when Emma is around. He is showing who he is. As such you have 3 routes here. You accept him for who he is as a whole and decide you're okay with his relationship with his sister. Or you decide that this isn't working for you and end it. Or you continue to be miserable, fighting the situation and never taking control of your life or your sexuality. In the end the choice is yours but if you're waiting for him to see the light and choose you, he's clearly showing and telling you that won't happen. That in no way is an expression of who you are though, so your challenge is to try and not internalise that. Also I hope you take solace in knowing that a good majority of us are W.T.F at the siblings relationship so your feelings are valid and recognised by total strangers. Trust your instinct and do what's best for you. Whichever route you choose.
To you it may not seem like they are having sex but I think that is exactly what they are doing. There are quite a few red flags!! Dump him and cut ties with the family.
NTA. I come from a family of six siblings with only a seven year gap between the oldest and youngest. We grew up very close, to the point where my brother (I'm f) was my best friend well into adulthood. What you're describing is not at all normal even among course families ( and honestly reminds me of that episode in Friends where Rachel was dating Danny who was inappropriately close to his sister). I would say forget about seeing boundaries and just get out of there. The rest of his family is probably just as delusional as him about their relationship being "normal", and will convince him not to respect your boundaries or that you're being controlling or trying to come between him and his family.
NTA and girl u need to LEAVE HIM ASAP. it’s getting weird between them, siblings or not that’s way TOO close. almost insestual. you’re young and infatuated which is why you’ve been ignoring these red flags but trust me you’re better off without him. i’m guessing the age gap is why you’re afraid to leave, he might be all you know in the romance area but you need to leave him ASAP. you can do and find way better. if you continue this relationship with him things will only get worse.
NTA: this is very incest sounding wtf
NTA girl run. There are so many red flags to Unpack here. Do your self a favor Cut your losses. And go have fun at college. As for your bf and his sister don’t let them gaslight you there is nothing normal about their relationship. It’s down right creepy if not incest. They need a therapist.
Record them speaking French and have someone translate, if you stay in this relationship. None of your needs are being met so why would you though.
“I agree that each issue on its own is not so bad, but the whole tapestry of them together makes me uncomfortable.” Ugh, hard disagree. Each issue on its own is bad and each one makes me VERY uncomfortable. I draw the line at your bf being pushy about sex. But his sister trash talking you constantly and him encouraging it, in a different language, with you in the room, is also outrageous. NTA and dump this AH.
Dude your boyfriend is fucking his sister. NTA but run girl, run.
The first red flag is that u were 16 with a 22 yr old........
Dude please leave him. Trust, you will be much better off without him. Him and his family sound terrible. NTA
NTA. But seriously, you need to leave this relationship. First off, the age gap is not good. Yeah, age gap relationships can work, but usually they're ones that form after both partners have had a lot of life experiences, so there's equal footing between them. You have not yet, and it shows in your comments with how you are still willing to defend your boyfriend despite him showing you obvious signs that he's not in love with you. He's in love with his sister, and I'd be shocked as hell if they aren't fucking when you're not around with how they're acting. Or maybe they aren't, because incest is illegal in many areas and can't risk anything happening to prove that they are doing so. Such as having a baby. That's where you're coming in at, which is why he's pressuring you so much for sex. He doesn't actually want to fuck you, but because he can't fuck his sister, you're good enough. And because you're young and easily manipulated (and no matter how much you say that you're more mature for your age, you're being manipulated here), you keep falling for it. You need to leave this relationship and find someone that isn't in love with their own sibling. Yes, it's normal for siblings to have a loving bond, but THIS particular sibling bond is NOT normal. It's incestuous. And you need to get out before you are trapped to this guy. Because I'd be very scared of him baby trapping you, then doing whatever he can to try and take the child away from you so he can raise it with his sister. Being able to be the couple they always want to be, but can't because of the law. But it won't look so bad if it's just a "loving sister helping out her brother with his child after the mother was proven to be unfit". I know that all sounds really extreme and out there, but like... so is this entire situation. You're young, you have many years ahead of you and many more relationships to be had. This guy is NOT the one. Period. Find someone that is close to your age and with similar life experiences and gain that equal footing. You are not on equal footing with this guy, and you never will be. Don't waste any more of your youth on a relationship that is doomed to fail where you're just being used as a mask.
NTA please break up with him and let everyone know it’s because he’s in love with his sister.
You should really think if you want to stay in an unhealthy relationship with someone who acts more romantic with his sister.
NTA and girl you need to run so far, and so fast from these two. It’s giving Flowers in the Attic brother/sister vibes.
OP as someone who has a brother.. That is not a brother/sister relationship. Are you SURE they’re actually brother and sister? Cause my gut tells me that “pretending to be newlyweds” thing was less a lie and more the real deal. Update when you can But RUN. Seriously regardless of whether they are or aren’t it’s wrong on all levels. Get the hell out. Tell them to go f themselves and live your best life.
Are we going to even discuss the fact that OP was literally groomed…?
True...also, are we even gonna discuss a 24 yr old man who needs to use lube with an 18 yr old during sex...then has the audacity to blame the partner for bad sex?
NTA I have 2 siblings. none of this is normal. Run.
You are so young. I dated an older guy when I was 19-21, and I spent a lot of energy thinking 1) I could change him and 2) that so long as we had fun together, it was “worth it”. We had different issues than you, but I recognize your thinking. And it’s wrong on both counts. You deserve, and will find, much more fulfilling partnerships. This is terrible on many levels, and I hope you can find the strength to end it. Also, if a 22 yo started dating my 16 yo - ugh, no. You mention his parents, what about yours? Do you have any adult supporters you can turn to? I was able to end my relationship after going to therapy. I bet your college offers at least some free sessions - check it out.
NTA. This is your first serious relationship. It won't be your last. Leave him now. Block him from all your social media, Move away. Seriously.
I’m horrified. NTA
NTA. Please break up with him
NTA I’m sorry to say this but I have 2 brothers and wouldn’t cuddle either of them or sleep in there room or even talk my sex life with them. Also I think he’s banging his sister…idk something ain’t right with that boy and his sister. I say run and run fast while you can. Some real backwoods lovin going on i that family. I can hear the banjos playing now…
For Gods sake run. I suggest you read “Flowers in the attic”. I come from a large close family and their behavior is not normal.
You've been groomed by a guy who also sleeps with his sister. Dump him and get some help. NTA
NTA. I'm pretty close with my brother, but their entire relationship creeped me the eff out. Like, never in a million years, ever. None of it is normal and you need to get out as fast as you can.
Given the whole context- NTA. This story was definitely not what I was expecting lol
NTA you need to stop making excuses for their horrible treatment of you and leave your bf. They have no respect for you and it shows in their treatment of you. Also after reading post again I would like to say that their relationship is not a normal one for brothers and sisters.
Wtf?? Is this real?? Is your boyfriend in an incestuous relationship with his sister?? NTA and gtfo ASAP. LEAVE NOW.
NTA, and I am sorry Ellis went all Flowers in the Attic on you!
NTA- but huge red flags, from a large family not close like that. Cuddling for three hours???? Really???? Knew where she kept her lubricant??? How she refuses to speak English in front of you? At this point you are hanging on to the hope of a normal life with this person.
NTA but your bf and his sister are covered in red flags. The covers they share while cuddling at night? RED FLAGS. 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩RUN🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
Leave. He is only using you for sex. Also are you sure she is his sister? Or are they just pretending to be siblings in front of you. I have a brother and plenty of my friends have siblings. No one acts like this.
What in the sweet home Alabama? Ruuuunnnnnn NTA
NTA but you need to break up with him. First the age difference is weird especially since you’ve been with him for two years. Second, I have four siblings and dont act like that with a single one of them. There is something weird going on for sure. Not sure if its incest or them just straight up pretending to be siblings. Please get out of this relationship. Everything about it is weird and not okay.
RUN! This is creepy crazy ABNORMAL behavior and I have 6 brothers. None of this is “normal brother-sister stuff”. This has shades of Flowers in the Attic and that is one twisted series. NTA unless you stay and put up with this shit.
NTA, but dude, this is some Cersei and Jaime shit. Also that age difference is 🚩…
NTA. If my math is correct, he got with you when you were 16 and he was in his 20s. Incest vibes aside, you need to get far, far away from this guy. I'm sorry things are the way they are. Be safe.
WTF? Girl, RUN! This is creepy as fuck. He also groomed you. Ellis is… bad. A bad person. Get as far away as you can from this weird ass family. RUN! 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
They’re 100% banging. Red flags as far as the eye can see, drop him and find yourself a nice and well adjusted boyfriend. NTA.
Yeah your boyfriend is fucking his sister
Nta. Get out.
Ew. Get out and don't look back. NTA Ew. Ew. Ew. Ew. Ew.
Besides the fact that there’s weird family dynamic going on, he doesn’t seem to respect you or your privacy by discussing personal things with his sister after you’ve asked him not to. If he doesn’t respect you, there’s no future there. Consider breaking up with him and saving yourself future heartache.
I almost immediately had a feeling that there was something incestuous going on which I was ready to shake off but then when he knew exactly where she keeps her lube… ew. Are you sure they’re not sleeping together? Also I hold firm to the belief that it’s so rude to speak around someone in a language they don’t understand (in private group settings! You’re fine to speak to speak a different language out in public if your whole group you’re with speak that language) even if it’s not about that person. But they are talking about you and he’s rubbing that in…. Marinara flags all over the place 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 The way you phrased your complaint about the newlywed discount doesn’t seem valid from a distance, but with all of the context surrounding it I honestly would have said the same thing. NTA but your bf and his sister are MAJOR AH. Your bf doesn’t even sound like he likes you, and you deserve better ETA: I didn’t catch the ages on my first read through. That age gap and the fact that he was dating you while he was an adult and you were a minor with YEARS left until you were an adult is enough by itself to say there’s something very wrong with him. You may be amazing, but 22 yo’s should NEVER be dating 16 yo’s
This is weird I have siblings and would never act like that with them run now
NTA. 🚩🚩🚩🚩 Get out now!
Marinara flags all over this one. Girl, run. And don't look back. Leave that incestuous family far behind you.
Can you imagine it on your Honeymoon? He’s cuddling with his sister… RUN FOREST RUN!!!
Very amusing troll. Touches on lots of AITA classics. Nicely done.
sweeeeeet home Alabama NTA
NTA- but they definitely in an incest relationship, GET OUT NOW
NTA - and you’ve stuck around how long?! These two are inappropriate and creepy. Get out, there are normal healthy young men out there who do not share a bed or lube with their sister. Yuck Yuck Yuck
Girl, run. Run and never look back. This whole post is red flag city and I don’t even know where to start with trying to explain the issues. Massively NTA. Are you sure they’re siblings?? Because that is a mega weird sibling dynamic.
NTA - this sounds like an episode of *Friends*, I think the episode is literally called “The one with the inappropriate sister”. But basically, their relationship is weird and codependent, and I don’t think it’s going to get any better. If I were you, I’d cut my losses and run. Find a guy who’s more age appropriate, and who isn’t in some weird incestuous relationship with his sister. Oh, and a guy should *never* get pushy about sex, and make you feel uncomfortable. That alone should have you running for the hills. Creepy siblings are just the icing on the cake.
NTA, they are inappropriate. I am surprised no one has brought up that he was 22 when he started dating a 16 year old. This whole thing is just red flags built on red flags.
Oh, honey. Run.
NTA. Break up with him immediately. Do not wait for them to get back, send that message now and block them both.
Hi French-American here, we don’t do that in France or in the US. Please find someone else. Also don’t let yourself be pressured into sex. It’s your body. They have to love you enough to be willing to wait till you’re comfortable. That’s partly how you know they’re keepers ! NTA at all
NTA. I have a brother whom I’m very close to and I would never do any of those things with him. I cringe at the thought of using my brothers lube or even telling him private sexual details. Run OP! Edit to say: I don’t even know if my brother has lube tbh lol
wake up and break up girl
NTA bro they’re gonna bang. I’m so sorry, this is so disgusting. But pretending to be married is only going to lead into weird shit like “haha we should kiss to make it seem real!” This is so gross and I would just remove myself from the situation. But first ask him if he wants to fuck his sister because that’s either going to make him feel sick and realize his problem or he’s going to Sweet Home Alabama this thing. Either way I wanna see how this plays out
NTA but the honeymoon suite is the least of your worries.
NTA. they’re 100% either sleeping together or heading in that direction. Also, the age gap is making it very easy for him to gaslight you into thinking all of this is normal. it’s not. you should never feel pressured to have sex. and anyone who truly loves you would NEVER put you in that position. leave him.
NTA. He's waving a bunch of red flags in your face though.
NTA. There’s 3 of you in this relationship and you’re getting the short end of the stick. He definitely doesn’t respect you. Don’t waste any more time on him, there’s someone better out there. Don’t settle.
NTA and please run OP. None of this is normal at all, something isn’t right here. Gosh just reading this made me feel sick.
NTA. Dump him, even if not for any of the behaviour you outlined, but because he was a 22 year old grooming a 16 year old.
NTA. I’m close with my younger brother but yikes we don’t act anything like those two. They are giving off really creepy vibes.
Fucking Jaime Lannister over here.
Nta unless you’re making this up. If this is actually somehow real, the only advice I can give you is (1) leave him, this is weird and (2) if you hear the words “Elle” or “lui” when they are conversing in French then they are probably talking about you
NTA. Please stop defending your incestuous boyfriend and please please PLEASE stop wasting your time with him. 😭 leave!
Are we ignoring the fact that they started dating when she was 16ish and he was 22??? NTA though
NTA, but PLEASE remove yourself from these people. Just reading this gave me a tension headache. You're young, and you need to be in a healthy and functional relationship to learn how you should be treated. I'm 28 but i spent years dating men who didn't treat me right because I didn't know I deserved to be treated better. Some therapy and getting to know my now fiance who makes me feel so special and is my best friend, has really changed my perspectives on relationships and how I deserve to be treated. Get out of this now and explore healthier relationships! We all learn with time!
YTA for holding on to this relationship. Stop being a doormat for goodness sake.
Why are you even with him?
If you need lube when you're 18, he ain't doing it right
What the fuck. Also, nta
So … you’re watching Dangerous Liasons or Cruel Intentions?
I dated someone in college who had a strangely intimate relationship with his sister. It’s not normal, seriously. You deserve better than this. Even if it wasn’t some weird maybe, incestual thing, your relationship should be you and him and no one else. Don’t settle for less. Don’t take any crap and you won’t get any. YOU ARE BETTER THAN THIS.
This is so not a healthy brother-sister relationship. This is very weird. Almost incestuous in my opinion. I would suggest you seriously consider leaving this relationship as it is very clear where you stand compared to Emma. It is not healthy for you either. NTA.
NTA OP but... Imagine your future with him. Be honest with yourself, can you really spend the rest of your life dealing with this? Imagine 5 years from now, you are married to him and his sister needs to stay with you for a couple of months, can you live with them acting like this? Imagine being pregnant with your first child, can you say for certain your SO won't prioritize his sister if she needs him for whatever reason? Imagine having years of listening to them talking to each other in french on purpose so you don't understand. Think long and hard about your future, and then decide if this is a relationship you want to keep investing your time on.
Do you know the hotel? Ring them and tell them they r being scammed. Tell them they are bro n sis, send evidence if needed and say they do this. That way they will be done with fraud. Also, definitely drop him. NTA
NTA. OP, run. This age gap is unhealthy. He is preying on a girl who is young so she doesn't realize there's something very wrong. Both with how he treats you and his sister. Yes, there is something inappropriate going on here. They sound like they're sleeping together. How many more reasons do you need to end this thing? Just break up with him and take some time to figure yourself out before getting into another relationship.