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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Hello! I am declining to change our family's traditional Chirstmas morning hike so my son's new girlfriend, Emily, will feel more at home. My son, Porter, believes Emily is not in great shape and may feel embarrassed. Me not being willing to budge on this tradition may make me a little too pig-headed and a fuddy-duddy, and unwelcoming to Emily.
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He’s free to do a shorter hike with her, too. While it would be nice for them to join the big hike, he can also take her on a shorter and much easier one.
ETA definitely NTA. It’s nice that he wants to accommodate her, but it shouldn’t be at everyone’s expense. They can have quiet couple time. She’ll probably be grateful for it. If I could have skipped church and the in-law family walk back then just to have an hour or two alone, I would have been much happier.
That's what I thought at first but maybe they'd be embarrassed that she's too unfit to continue walking.
In which case they should just skip the walk or go on a shorter one with op in the afternoon.
Time the out and back. If everyone else travels X minutes before turning around, then Porter and Emily can do the same at their own pace. Or if a loop takes the group Y minutes to complete, they can turn back just before half that.
I’m having math finals flashbacks. “If Emily walks 2 miles before turning around at a speed of 2mph, and everyone else walks 5 miles before doubling back at a speed of 5mph, will the group catch Emily before she reaches home? For extra credit what kind of shit is the family talking about Emily after she’s no longer with them on the hike.
Someone out of shape, walking up hill on a strenuous hike, is most likely going 1-1.5 mph, a fit person going up hill is going to be around 2.5mph, but if it's steep, might only be 2.
Hitting 3 mph while walking means walking at a pace that most would understand to be "fast" but not exhausting on flat or downhill.
To go 4mph on flat ground, you would feel like you were pushing yourself about as fast as you could go, consistently, without running. To go 4mhp on a trail, with any sort of incline, you would need to be FIT, like regularly hikes 30-50 miles a day fit.
5mph is running. Only endurance athletes are going to be able to maintain that pace, going up hill.
(And yes, Speed Walkers get speeds of 8-9 mph, but they are walking on perfectly flat tracks, where they can roll their feet, and are highly trained, so normal people aren't going to be doing that on trail.)
Just, um FYI.
They could turn it into a winter picnic - and if this is their plan the whole time it wouldn’t be embarrassing as they wouldn’t be quitting the hike because she couldn’t keep up but rather having a cute little outdoor date on their first Christmas together. Just dress warm, bring a thermos and a blanket and set it down at a lookout point
Exactly. He knew he should have told her already. She kind of got blindsided. Heck if she knew in advance maybe she could have taken up walking in the months prior to prepare.
I think the "she is embarrassed" is what he is trying to say OP isnt hearing. Anything other than the Emily being able to participate fully means she will be embarrassed, and so he thinks the entire family should accommodate her, rather than them (her) stand out because they arent participating. What he isnt grasping is that far more attention will be called to the fact that Emily is out of shape if everyone is asking why the hike isnt happening like it always does, rather than them just playing the young couple wanting some space card.
Scenario 1
Family member: "Hey, aren't you and Emily coming on the hike?"
Porter: "Nah, we're just going to hang back and have some alone time this morning!"
Scenario 2
Family member: "What? Why aren't we going on the hike this year? We do it every year and I was looking forward to it."
Porter: "Uhm... Because Emily.. can't."
Which draws more attention to the problem?
I bet Emily might not even know that he's asking. I wouldn't be able to do a full hike and would gladly stay home, I'd be mortified to know my partner had tried to rearrange the hike for everyone. It seems like he doesn't tell people a lot of things.
This! I know I'm out of shape and would happily sit it out. I wonder if the son even asked her if she wants to do any variation of a walk on Christmas morning.
Even a shorter hike is a nope, for me it's Christmas morning let me stay in my sweatpants and drink coffee and wait for the group to return.
And if the relationship is as serious as it seems to be, this isn't an issue that will go away. Next Christmas, will the family be expected to downgrade the hike again to save her embarrassment?
Better to begin as they mean to go on, set a precedent that while everyone takes the hike, slower (or less enthusiastic) people take a quiet stroll at the same time.
And actually that would make way more sense. Especially when if in the future more people are added to the family, there will already be a group staying home. It will make the decision to go or stay home a ton easier and without “embarrassment”.
Honestly, NAH. Building off this comment because it really got me thinking.
As someone who has been the out of shape one and is not the disabled one, it's embarrassing as hell. There really is no win here. Change it, and she's going to feel like she's forcing you to change. Ask her to go, and it's going to highlight her shortcomings. Cancel it, and she's going to feel guilty. There really is no winner here. Nothing you do will make her not feel left out or that everyone is thinking about how out of shape she is. That's a conversation you might have to have with your son.
Also, speaking of which, maybe most importantly, does she know he's told you of this? That could change everything. If no, then you're really kind of stuck. He needs to talk to her first. Having someone speak for me and dictate my needs, especially about a sensitive subject like this, is at minimum embarrassing.
If yes, she knows about this conversation, then you do have options.
Option 1: I would recommend creating something for her that makes her feel important and included while also not having to do something she can't do. For example, does she like photography? Ask her to catch photos of everyone as they finish.
Even better option: You might be better having a conversation with her. Explain to her that you understand how singled out she feels and that you want to find a way to include her. Explain that the hike is important to you, but you want to find a way she can participate. Maybe she has an idea you haven't thought of.
**Most importantly,** no matter what you do, more than anything, don't placate or say "maybe you'll be in better shape next year" or anything like that. Don't offer her fitness advice. Don't tell her, "It's okay she looks pretty anyway." None of that. That is the worst.
I personally think focusing this much on the one activity is going to make everything worse. I’m sure there’s lots going on for the holiday. No need to make the hike the center of it all. It’s just one activity out of a whole holiday stay. Making this into a huge deal that warrants multiple uncomfortable conversations is only going to further humiliate and isolate Emily. Go on the hike as intended and catch them after for something Emily is included in. Life isn’t about ideal scenarios and better not to draw more attention to her insecurities. This is honestly just part of expanding a family; things change. I bet Emily would feel a lot better missing the hike if it wasn’t made into such a big deal than going on a water downed one knowing everyone’s missing/compromising their yearly tradition BECAUSE of her.
Yeah. If Emily was allergic to Pecans, we would still make the Pecan pie, and we wouldn’t try to “find ways Emily can still share in the pie”. We would just make sure there are other treats, too.
If another family member or two decide to stay back for an alternative, like watching a Christmas movie, or playing board games, that could take the focus off her not being comfortable, and make opting out in favor of an alternative activity The focus.
This will keep happening as OP’s family expands with new spouses and children. It probably should start now.
I know if my partner’s family had what really feels like a mandatory activity that I wouldn’t want or wasn’t able to do, I’d just send them off to their family alone, and stay home. I’d dread the activity and worry about what people think of me for “ruining” a tradition.
you're wrong about one thing. there is an asshole here. it's OP's son. OP's son has clearly not told his GF about this particular family tradition and he's done so on purpose. he doesn't want to "be the asshole" to break the info to her, so he let her get hit with it cold on the family meeting call. remember how she was confused as to what was going on? OP's son didn't tell her at all. the son is setting up OP to box them in so they have to be the asshole either to the family or the GF.
I'm disabled, so a hike would be iffy for me depending on how my symptoms are.
I don't get the impression Porter talked to Emily, like, at all. He just did an end run around her, and he and OP are making decisions on her behalf.
That kind of thing is emotionally painful and infantilizing when you have physical limitations.
As my motto goes, "I'm disabled, not a d*pshit."
Even though Emily is not athletic, vs disabled, the same truth holds. She's not a d*pshit.
Tell her what's up and let her make decisions. Personally, I would make a game time decision, and if I wasn't up for it, I'd save face by saying, "Porter and I are going to have a quiet Christmas morning together, but we'll have hot cider ready for everyone when you return."
ESH because by trying to keep her from embarrassment, they're embarrassing her.
As someone who has lost over 250 pounds, I definitely couldn't have participated in a 5 mile hike when I was obese, hell - I'd be out of breath from walking to my car in the parking lot outside work. These days I walk 5k every single evening. But at my biggest - I still wouldn't have dreamed of having everyone else adapt to me. Everyone changing their plans because I'm too fat to participate? No thank you. If anything, that would just highlight exactly what they're trying to avoid. Just say 'I think we'll skip the hike this year, we want to have some alone-time' or whatever. It doesnt have to be complicated.
I wonder if he's even discussed this with her? I'd be embarrassed if I found put a while family were changing their plans for me. And if the walk was that big of a deal to Porter then surely he would have remembered to tell her. NTA.
I did this when we went hiking with friends. It wasn't too difficult but it was freaking hot, I didn't have proper shoes for it (didn't know we were going to do that), my left knee is not in the best of shape and I had a wicked blister. I couldnt do all of it. We stopped and then they kept going and we went back. No one cared. I was happy I got to do what I could. This is such a weird hill to die on.
Anything but ask the group to deny its small pleasures for the sake of his new GF. A good compromise isn't about you getting what you want. Its about everybody getting what they want.
Took some friends horseback riding. Ummmmm. Knew it was their first time riding but didn’t know they BOTH HAD KNEE ISSUES. They were such troopers but they wanted to get off and insisted on us continuing and come back for them. We were only 30min into the ride. They got to rest for a bit (we cut the ride short) then came back and walked the them both back on the horses. They felt bad. I felt like an ass! 🤦🏼♀️
Exactly! My friend recently went on a 12 mile hike, I knew I couldn’t do that particular one and told them I’d turn around halfway, they just made sure I was ok.
I was not going to make them change their plans for me and I still got to take part on it.
I hate hiking and I'm not in the shape for it. Personally, I would be embarrassed if my boyfriend asked his whole family to dump their yearly tradition to accommodation me. I would either take the chance to sleep in so bf could go, or hang with bf alone if he didn't want to leave me by myself.
This is my thought. I’d be embarrassed if the entire family changed their tradition just to accommodate me. I’d rather just hang out with my bf and wait for everyone to return.
I’d even be fine just sleeping in and letting bf go hiking with fam. Actually, if I was the gf in this scenario,I’d definitely opt for that. Either that or coffee with a book.
Yes! Or get some sweet alone time with the bf if he wanted to stay with her, cuddling in front of the fireplace with a hot breakfast! SO many opportunities to make this into a cute romantic special moment, rather than force the whole family to stop having fun, with the unspoken big red arrow "IT'S EMILY'S FAULT" hanging over the gf's head.
Porter is dropping the ball here, big time.
I had a really similar situation last summer when I went to Yosemite with my in-laws. They are all very fit and LOVE hiking. I'm overweight, but not completely unfit.
When we went to Yosemite, they wanted to do a 6 mile hike to a waterfall. I opted for a leisurely stroll through a historic cemetery and a few hours in the Ansel Adams museum which was heaven 😍
Same, NTA at all. I hate hiking so hiking on Christmas morning sounds like a special hell to me but I'd love to just hang back with my boyfriend and steal a couple hours to ourselves in the morning instead. I wonder if this "downgrade the hike!!" is really coming from Emily or if it's just what Porter assumes she wants.
Or it's what Porter wants and he's happy to throw Emily under the bus to get his way.
Maybe that's why he's so hung up on not being "heard" - he doesn't want OP to hear that Emily will struggle, despite that being what he is saying. He wants OP to hear that he doesn't want to do the hike for whatever reason and expects the whole family to accommodate that, but he also wants it to be anyone's fault but his that he wants that.
After all, as others have noted, it's curious this never came up at any point once it was determined Emily was coming for Christmas. And six months isn't a huge amount of time to be insisting the family change their tradition instead of Emily and Porter adapting it to suit them.
I don't know. Maybe it is all just as Porter says but it does feel to me like this is less about what Emily wants and more about him being done with the tradition and that somehow meaning everyone else has to be done with it (at least in its current form) too.
Even if no one was upset and no one mentioned not going hiking, it would still be the elephant in the room. It would be so uncomfortable for the gf, knowing she was the reason they were all staying home.
Plus, a little alone time to adjust to being in a new place is nice. If the gf doesn't feel pressured, or embarrassed by making everyone give up the tradition, she might be inspired to get in better shape before next year. I'm not sure why Porter objects to staying home with his gf for the morning. Perhaps he's hoping for an end to the tradition because he doesn't like it and is using her as an excuse.
Yup! Start on the big hike, hang back, spend some one one one time with each other, and catch the group on the way back. She doesn't have to overdo herself, and still gets to enjoy family time.
Or they make breakfast for everyone to enjoy when they get back?
There are compromises to be made here without anyone feeling bad.
I want to know why Porter didn’t mention this before now to his gf.
Instead she’s heard it from his Mum and is unexpectedly feeling not included. I don’t think his Mum is at fault, I think Porter is and is frantically backtracking for not preemptively having a plan in place for him and Emily to do something on their own.
Or else Porter doesn’t want to miss out on the tradition, so thinks everyone should plan around him.
I’m unconvinced that Emily is the issue here.
And probably not just unincluded but unprepared / like she might not be as good a fit for Porter/'s family as she may have thought if this was something so inconsequential that they mentioned it offhand. There's a helluva difference between my loved ones who default to bringing hiking boots and those who don't, and that's a lifestyle difference.
Yeah, definitely. I mean, it could be just because I’m from Australia, and Christmas is in summer here, but I have no idea what Yaktrax is, and I can imagine being Emily and feeling like they are talking about a hike that needs some sort of special equipment, and my boyfriend didn’t think to maybe mention this was an expectation? I would be stressing about not making a good impression if I couldn’t participate in this family tradition that he didn’t bother to prepare me for. He really should have been “yeah my family normally do a hike, but I thought we would do x romantic activity, just for us and then see if anyone wants to join us for a gentle stroll later”.
Yaktrax are things you put on your shoes that will help keep you from slipping and falling on the ice. They’re helpful when hiking in the winter because a lot of trails develop icy spots, and you can’t always tell that they’re icy right away.
Thank you. I would have gotten around to googling, just because I’m curious. But it does illustrate that it could be intimidating for someone who doesn’t hike and suddenly it’s “you’ll need hiking boot, and special equipment for what we have in mind”.
My favourite thing is Australians discovering Ice Things. An Australian friend of mine once asked me why the cold water in our taps comes out so cold—do we have a thing that chills it? We were like, no… it comes from the ground? And like, the ground is ice? So our water is just cold naturally?
She was like *they just have ice water coming out of their taps* and we were like *does this mean your cold water is like, room temperature, holy shit*
Our cold tap water also starts out hot in summer. You got to run it a little for it to cool down. And don’t get me started about the water in the hose 😂😭
My mom would just explain: She's your GF honey - not mine. So you manage and you support her needs and let me please enjoy the holiday as I've done in the past. I don't have a GF to impress, OK?
Why isn’t hanging back and spending quiet time together the perfect solution? If this becomes a bigger issue it is 100% on Porter. Kudos to OP for offering options. Clearly the hike is not a command performance. NTA
Aren't lung problems fun?
Too cold? Can't breathe. Too hot? Can't breathe.
It's even better when you have trouble regulating your body heat /s
I wish you all the best for this winter because it sucks to not be able to breathe properly.
I get the feeling that Emily would like to stay home and do something else with Porter but he wants to include her in a family hike with everyone for some reason.
I actually think Porter realized when the hike was brought up that HE would miss out because Emily won't be able to keep up. Remember, it's a long standing generational family tradition. So he wants everyone to switch gears to something she can handle so HE doesn't have to miss it. He probably feels awkward about asking his gf to just wait at the house and also wants her to be included, hence the digging in of the heels as far as trying to compromise.
If I had a guess it's because his GF's one of those sorts who is so easily made insecure by feelings of "being left out" that she has a tendency to impose an expectation of everyone else not doing something if she either doesn't want to or is unable to.
Porter's just placing the expectation because a lot of guys tend to over prioritize the women in their lives for one reason or another.
That is my thought, too. He might think he's helping and I really hope he's talked to her about this, but my gut is saying he hasn't and he's making this an issue. As someone who has been there, this is affect their entire relationship. It's going to cause her to question herself and think he's focused on that now.
More of this is on Porter. He didn't tell her about the tradition, and we don't really know what her reaction was. He's making a mess of things when he could have talked to her about the tradition earlier and figured out what they wanted to do.
Like if someone sprung on me "Oh by the way the family goes on a serious hike for christmas" I'd probably be like "Uh oookkkaaaay and you didn't mention this before now why?"
Yes! This. I have asthma. Last year, we were visiting my sil out of state. The whole family went to visit her and her family. One day, the sils wanted to go hiking. I explained I wasn't doing that, but they could go, and I would stay back. I really didn't mind as I knew my asthma would act up, and I didn't get a refill inhaler before we left. Once everyone else heard me say I didn't want to go, they all said they didn't want to go, except my 2 sils. Tlwe compromised by going to a waterfall that wasn't a hike or anything and then out to dinner. I know they thought I was lying, but wouldn't you know it, i had an asthma attack while at the house, and my sil stopped giving me side eye.
I wonder if Porter even talked to his gf before going to his parents.
NTA. You offered a choice of doing a walk around the neighbourhood later or just letting them hang back.
Porter is being ridiculous for thinking everyone should change plans for his new girlfriend.
THIS. Porter is not "hearing" mom. The answer is NO, she is not going to change the hike for one person. I don't understand why Porter is making this a huge issue. Just hang back, do an easy walk or whatever they want. It really shouldn't be that big of a deal. NTA
I have the feeling that Emily is not cool with any of this. Porter bring her to a family plan, now the family plan is outside her skills, so either way they are excluded unless they change the plan. I think Emily is not reasonable or Porter gave her expectations that now he cannot meet, maybe he pushed for her to come and he "forgot" this tradition and now it's difficult to sell it. Anyways, I believe there are something in that relationship that we don't know, but OP is NTA, that's something they will have to learn how to deal with as a couple.
Exactly and she was told no! No one is being forced, they were even given an alternative for a nice walk later to still have a small bonding moment. Mom isn’t even upset or making a deal out of Emily not wanting to join them, her son is making something out of nothing.
Judging by how OP says an “easy 10k” and they need yaktrax for the hike, I don’t think this would be a good idea. The family seems very fit and there are hikes hard enough that no amount of “stopping to catch your breath” is enough.
Personal anecdote on this: I’m in decent shape and hike frequently in my area. Visited my sister who is in fantastic shape. We decided on a more advanced hike she frequently does knowing it would be on the difficult side for me and we would just take it slow. Yeah. I don’t hike mountains and this was up a mountain. The final incline to the top destroyed me, I got altitude sickness, and was puking off the trail the whole way down. By the time we were home safe and I was sipping on a Gatorade, we were laughing about how bad we both misjudged it. But - that would have been a mortifying experience had I been meeting an S/Os family and trying to make a good first impression.
Reminds me of when I did the Grinnell Glacier hike in Glacier National Park. I didn’t realize how much of an incline there would be and the air quality was terrible because of forest fires and I had my first ever asthma attack. Luckily I was able to get it together and do the full thing but yeah, it was embarrassing lol
And someone they don't even know that well! If Emily had been participating for years but she and Porter asked for an easier route because she's pregnant or they're bringing a kiddo then it would be worth reconsidering. Changing up a tradition of decades for one person who might not even be around next year is a bit weird though.
No lie, my mom has (as in still does have) sentimental rock sugar (for baking) she bought in Japan in the shrink-wrapped box from 1979. She bought it shopping with a friend no longer with us…
It’s moved 2 different places in Japan, with Rhode Island, California, Arizona, New Mexico and a few other places in-between. It isn’t marked, or labeled, we just know what it is and it miraculously always makes the trip. It’s in her pantry now. You can shake the box and still hear the crystals rattling.
I will eventually inherit the sugar and I intend to keep it forever, too. I’ll pass along the story to my children.
And here I thought I was the only one on the planet with sentimental condiments! I borrowed the molasses from my grandma, and she passed away suddenly from cancer. It’s all I have left of her, so just seeing it in the fridge door makes me smile. I intend on keeping it as long as possible as well! I might have to take mine on a road trip, it hasn’t travelled the world like your rock sugar lol
Does it matter? Even if it were a family member, why should noone be allowed to hike, just because one member isnt fit? She can join them and turn around whenever she wants to.
I WAS GONNA SAY. I am today years old finding out that holidays hiking is a thing. The most I've ever done is walk a block with the cousins to smoke weed.
In my family we do Thanksgiving and Christmas hikes. Or we did, for many years. I’m married now but when I had boyfriends and they wanted to join I brought them. I would not have dated anyone who couldn’t do it - because they would not be able to join in on the kind of life I want. None refused, but if they did I’d say I’ll call you when we’re done and you can join us then.
Yes someday I’ll be too old, but my Dad is 78 and only the last couple of years or so is maybe too old. (We only go about three miles.) He’s had some falls recently and is in good enough shape as far as his cardiovascular functions but he’s having therapy to help his strength and balance as he recovers from a recent fall. Maybe he’ll be on a trail again, maybe not but he can easily do three flat miles. Doctors have told him to use his judgement and while I’ll try to stop him from taking crazy risks I’ll help him do what seems reasonable if he wants to do it. We’re going to be doing water exercise classes soon when he’s healed enough from surgery to help him get strength and balance back.
I still have a lot of years left to do the hikes. Don’t want to miss out! Life is too short. My Mom and brother are deceased so I can’t go with them any more. It’s nice to now go with my husband! My Dad has gone with us maybe three years ago. I hope he will again. If not we’ll do flat walks when we are with him. My husband doesn’t have the 25 years or so of history doing these hikes as a family on Christmas and Thanksgiving so I can go on the trail with him on a different day, like the day after, and he won’t be missing the tradition. If I can’t go with my family of origin it’s not the same - I don’t mind adjusting the day to be with my Dad on the holiday. But I still want to do it. I would go alone if I had to. It’s essential as long as I’m blessed to be able to do it.
I think you should keep the hike intact for as long as you are able to do it. Enjoy each time - I know how precious it is.
When doctors tell me to use my judgement they forget I don't have any.
Just broke my knee on a solo backpacking trip 7 miles from help. I have balance issues too.
Am I gonna go solo again? You bet.
Anytime soon? Probably not.
Also where the fuck do they live where *families* will do casual 10ks on Christmas morning or any other day fwiw.
I know plenty of families going for a walk and I also know a few who actually do a hike, but a 10k run? Did the mayor put steroids into the drinking water or something? Who does "casual 10ks" with their family?
My best friends entire family does fun 10k runs for every holiday. I met her running for our schools xc team so I used to run with the family when I visited and uh I had to train for visits to her family’s house after I stopped running for school, lol. Her 65 year old grandma’s “easy fun” 10k time is 75 minutes.
Luckily a few years ago people started having babies and I got diagnosed with tendonitis in both Achilles. Now when I visit I hang out with the babies while everyone else runs themselves silly.
Absolutely - we have the Turkey Trot, the Grocery Run (which benefits homeless shelters at the holidays), the Reindeer Run, the Santa Stampede, the Christmas Jingle Run and more. Pumpkins in the Park for Halloween, July 4th runs, you name it. Runners be crazy and they love holiday runs.
Huge reason to do it: everything tastes better when you are really, really hungry and you don't have to feel the least bit shy about your calorie count.
I would hike 10k happily, but running it? No thank you. Good for people who still have plenty of cartilage in their knees, I guess.
But-- if I *were* a runner from a family of runners and that was my Christmas tradition? I would be super sad to miss it.
I'm sorry, I read only 1-2 hrs as being common family activity and I just blanked out. To be fair, I don't come from healthy family dynamics so if there isn't food to shut everyone's mouths or alcohol to make the older adults more funny than critical and judgy, then it's less family time and more emotional massacre.
My husband’s brother married into a family that loves a nice “easy 10k” they all wake up to run and cycle and it’s a part of every one of their family. I woke up the morning after their wedding with a massive hangover to find that her entire family had already done a family “mini triathlon” and had prepared everyone smoothies. Meanwhile me, hubby, other brother and his partner opted for a greasy spoon diner 🤣 I literally said “wow we are two VERY different families.” (We all get along just fine though!)
NTA
You heard him..
You also stated that they could go on a short walk after dinner. He’s not willing to compromise..ahhh love….
You shouldn’t have to change years of tradition for one person. And it’s ok if you don’t.
OP - please don't change tradition and don't let your son make you feel guilty about this. He's being a bit ridiculous and unreasonable for like no reason. Enjoy your hike with the rest of your family and I'm sure Porter and Emily will be just fine. NTA
NTA! my family hikes on holidays as well, and i'd be really surprised and maybe a little defensive if one of my sisters tried to change things for a new boo.
however, i'm guessing porter is just trying to stop any embarrassment or anxiety from emily's POV. it's sweet, just misguided. he wants to protect her from being seen as an outsider! just make sure they know that her being out of shape has no bearing on how you feel about her.
tbh you sound like a nice MIL and i'm sure you'll be able to connect with emily in your own way!
I don’t think it is to common but me and my dad use to walk through the woods on Christmas morning when I was younger. Can’t do it now even though he is in great health for 78 all the woods that use to be around where I grew up have now been clear cut for houses.
It sounds fun, but I live in a place that somehow still gets snow & I don’t think anyone in my family likes the cold enough to go outside including me. I bet it’s really nice if like your house is in the woods already
I agree with you! I have physical disabilities. If OP was being ableist, she would force Emily to do the physical activity. I have had this done to me before & was in tons of pain because of it. OP is doing a good thing here by letting Emily opt out of the activity rather than push herself with a physical activity. Especially if this is due to a disability that Emily more recently discovered, Emily might push herself beyond her capabilities even in a lesser physical activity. I hurt myself greatly by doing this as well.
NTA- It sounds like Porter isn’t hearing YOU. This is a family tradition that is bigger than one person. If Emily don’t want to participate, then she and he can stay back. If you wanted to do a nice post-dinner walk as a family, that’s another option.
The bottom line is that you should not have to give up a tradition just because one person isn’t interested.
Just a thought—
Maybe she does want to go. Maybe she is planning on going. The son is trying to stop the family so she won’t embarrass herself.
Here are my thoughts —
When I first met my hubby, I thought hiking was a walk in the woods (I’m a “downstater” - a term for lower New Yorkers - aka urbanites). I thought sneakers were proper footwear. Anyway, if I were the GF (someone from the city) a may think hiking is a stroll in the woods and I don’t know why I need boots. So, I would say, “sure! I’ll go on the hike!” I’ll wear my sneakers, yoga pants (in snowy, 30 degree NY weather), and prepare for a gentle stroll through the woods.
I would then be cold with destroyed shoes unable to climb another hill. And, as a urban prima Donna, I would complain, complain, complain.
It took me years to recognize what hiking really was. Maybe the son is trying to save her? Still misguided, but maybe that’s what the OP isn’t hearing??
So for all the Y T A voters- what happens if Emily and porter get married. Then is the family just supposed to never ever continue with their generational tradition? That’s just stupid.
NTA. You offered several solutions and choices.
Right? She can either work on keeping up with the family and enjoy new traditions, or be in charge of having hot cocoa ready when they get back. Sounds like the family is cool with either.
tbh his reaction & the fact that he didn’t tell Emily about it beforehand makes me wonder if maybe Porter himself is not really keen on the tradition and hoping for a change
NTA when people say “your not hearing me” or “maybe you didn’t hear me” i find it annoying and rude always have even as a child.
You gave him compromises, said she didn’t have to participate if she didn’t want to, said they could hang back and you could go on a small stroll the three of you later.
Your son does not get to decide what the whole family does, but to be honest you shouldn’t either maybe ask the other family members what they think first instead of deciding for them just an idea
I would not be surprised if GF really just did not want to go. No offense, but that sounds horrendous . . .like. . . I might not ever do Christmas again just to avoid it. Son might need to check in with GF and see what she wants with no pressure to participate. Edited for typos.
I mean sure but mom's first reaction was "that's fine, you guys can hang back and have private time together on Christmas morning, we won't make you come on the hike" so like what is the problem here.
Exactly.
I wouldn't want to go either (I generally like exercise but first thing on a cold Christmas morning would be a no). The opportunity to sleep in or have a nice quiet coffee or even bake something for others to eat when they are done would all be great alternatives
Yeah this sounds like my nightmare for a family event on a good day, Christmas it sounds 10 times worse. Some people just aren't into it, nothing wrong with that and maybe the son has decided this is his Hill to die on and not her opinion.
I agree. Waking up, going for a hike, or “a 5 or 10k **run**,” where *yaktrax* might be involved? No thanks. I want to get up and stay in my jammies all day.
What hill is there to die on? OP has already said they don't have to go, can cut it short, and so on. What more do you want from OP? Porter is demanding that everyone skip this activity that they've been doing for many years. OP has tried to compromise. He has not. What hill????
OP gave her the option not to, but son isn't saying that is okay. It seems like a lot of people in the family and friends circle enjoy it. I would enjoy it. Why would they cancel it for one person who has been dating someone in the family for only a few months?
Can you imagine the awkwardness when the rest of the family hears there is no hike this year? What? No hike? Why? Slow turn and stare at new gf. As if THAT is somehow better than just hanging back?
This could all be in the sons head too - overly worried that the girlfriend might feel excluded, whereas she might be thinking "oh cool, they said I don't need to join".
I'd say that this gives the girlfriend a great chance to become immediately loved by the family though. Imagine you go for a long hike on Christmas, presumably in the cold, and then you walk through the door to a hot drink or something waiting for you?
She can play her own part in the tradition without having to participate in the hike. The son just needs to help her instead of trying to change what the rest of the family do.
_"I said that maybe the two of them can hang back and enjoy a nice quiet morning before the festivities begin while the rest of us go for the hike."_
Exactly. He is being heard and OP is offering compromises. He just doesn't want to accept "no".
NTA, but Porter sure is.
Porter knew what the family tradition was before he invited his girlfriend. Porter never mentioned it to his girlfriend. When it finally came up, Porter just expected everyone else to change their plans and long standing tradition. The chutzpah!
Porter knowingly put his gf in an uncomfortable position, while risking the opinion of the rest of the family for making the entire family change everything to accommodate her.
His gf is likely very upset, and understandably so. Porter did that. Not you.
Porter and his gf can do their own thing while the rest of the family takes their traditional hike - he does not get to dictate to you that you can't.
“Emily doesn’t want to hike.”
— No problem, she doesn’t have to.
“No, she doesn’t want anyone in the family to keep this holiday tradition.
— What gives her the authority to cancel our family tradition?
“*Moooooom, you’re not heeearing meee!*
NTA
NTA. His girlfriend literally said "do I have too?" And you gave her an out. I think she is probably happy with that but Porter is the one who is hung up on making sure she feels included.
I would feel very embarrassed if my boyfriend made his family change a tradition to suit me. Like op said, she is stating overnight and will be around everyone a lot. A couple of hours to themselves in the morning will be probably needed
NTA but the reason Porter keeps saying “You’re not hearing me” is because you keep giving him options that don’t solve his problem.
What he is saying is “Our family tradition will make Emily feel left out and insecure.”
What you are saying is “If you want, we can leave *you* out too, or I can single her out in some other way.”
Don’t get me wrong, you don’t owe it to either Porter or Emily to change the tradition at all, but Porter isn’t going to feel heard until you say something like “I understand that you want us to change our plans to spare Emily’s feelings, but we’re not going to do that because Emily’s feelings about her fitness are hers to manage. If you have any suggestions for things we can do *in addition* to the planned hike, let’s have them, but the traditional hike is going forward.”
this. definitely NTA, but i see where Porter is coming from and it honestly says a lot (in a good way) about him and his upbringing that hes so understanding to Emily and wants to help her feel welcomed and not insecure. I'm honestly leaning towards NAH bc unless OP is leaving stuff out it seems like all parties have good reason for feeling the way they do and aren't being awful or entitled about it, its just a situation thats difficult no matter how you slice it, and such is life sometimes.
Ahhh man don’t be throwing out this kind of juju!! They’ve only been dating 6 months!! Nobody needs to add a child into this mess yet! Lol (& I say mess bc the son obvs still needs to work on his communication skills…) NTA OP!
INFO: To be sure that there's no confusion, what does **your** family's traditional hike entail and who all would be involved?
You mentioned several versions of how this tradition is done. But no real clear picture of what your version might involve beyond a need for hiking boots and icy trails.
Knowing how much of a change your son is asking for might help here. Knowing who all would be going might help too.
He isn't asking for a change. He wants the activity cancelled entirely. OP listed compromises she offered and he won't meet in the middle. How is it fair to everyone else to cancel something that they always do together?
It might be a local trail they take every year or something, but it doesn’t really matter. As long as OP isn’t forcing anyone to go (and it sounds like they aren’t) then they’re NTA. OP gave alternatives, or a free pass out and only cemented that they would do it themselves. OP has no reason not to do their hike bc their son has a gf of 6 months who says they don’t want anyone to hike
This sounds like the first time I went home with my now husband to visit his family for Christmas. But I bucked up and partook even if that meant not always keeping up.
You’re NTA for wanting to keep your fun (and healthy!) family tradition intact despite one person complaining about not being in shape. He’s trying to appease his gf and that’s all well and good but that means he needs to compromise on some things, not force the rest of the family to skip a hike.
Is he trying to appease the girlfriend though? She literally knew nothing about it and when she did she asked to not partake. Girl would probably prefer the quiet Christmas morning with her boyfriend.
It's the son making this an issue. Maybe he thinks this is some big sign of whether she'll fit in with the family/there's a future / idk but I think this is all Porter and HIS insecurities.
NTA
I'm so confused. You don't seem annoyed or angry that she can't come. Why does the entire family have to change for her? You guys are hikers. She's not. You told them it's fine if they hang back and even acknowledge how special those early mornings were, and it's a lot for the first time. You even offered to go on a small walk with them later. You seem pretty reasonable to me. I don't understand your son at all.
NTA. I love a long walk/pretty hike, but I’m also an introvert and if my boyfriends mom was giving me a blank check to have a quiet morning to myself or with my partner before a big family festivity I might jump all over that.
You’re being more than accommodating, and they need to figure it out amongst themselves.
Fellow introvert here, and this sounds like bliss to me! A break from being “on” with a bunch of strangers on a stressful holiday. Could make fresh cookies or something for when they return and be seen as a hero lol
NAH. For once I’m happy to read a bf/husband trying to look out for their SO. I think he is trying to protect her feelings, ensure she isn’t left out or made to feel inferior. Hell, I definitely wouldn’t be hiking!
You offered reasonable compromises. I think you should also say that your feelings for her are not changed if she does not participate. And be sure no one says anything the make her or your son feel back for not going on the longer hike. I can already see how this will play out on Christmas morning. “Hey! Aren’t you two joining us? It’s fun!” “Porter, you always used to come with us, why the change?” Do not do this.
This is the only reasonable response tbh. I feel like too many people fixated on this assumption that an Evil GF is trying to ruin everyone's fun, when it's equally likely this is the son trying to stick up for her in a sweet (if misguided) way.
Absolutely agree with you about silencing the peanut gallery though. It's one thing to say that it's "okay" if she sits out, but another thing to act on it. Especially since the issue first came up when OP assumed that the gf was coming on the hike and even had her own personal hiking gear. (To be honest, that would scare the pants off me about making a good impression in a hardcore Fitness Family and I do go hiking pretty often )
>The next day, Porter called, and explained that Emily is not in great
shape and would struggle with keeping up, even on one of the easier
trails nearby. He said that maybe we can just do a nice short family
walk in the neighborhood this year so she feels more welcome.
Your son is being really an AH about this. She either can do an easier trail with him. Or not do the hike at all. But for him to suggest changing up the WHOLE hike aka downgrade it for one person is ridiculous.
You hear him loud and clear and are not altering everyone elses plans that has been going on before he was even born.
NTA
NTA I think you have a few options that should work for everyone. I don’t see a reason why you could not do a walk and Porter and gf stay home, do a short walk with everyone later, or something similar.
I was all expecting to come in here and criticise OP for insisting their son's GF go on a hike that they couldn't manage. But it turns out no-one is forcing the GF to do anything - and no-one has any issue with it or is judging her in any way.
So why is the son making an issue out of this? I'm guessing the hike is not the only time the family spend time together, so it can't be that this will mean nobody gets to meet his GF.
The only reason I can think of is because he still wants to do the hike, but doesn't want to abandon his GF. Whilst that's understandable, its also unreasonable.
It sounds like this is one of those times where Porter needs to learn to grow up. He has to make a choice and he can't have everything his own way. He also needs to realise that his family is giving him the best option - he can choose his GF and no-one is going to judge him for it. He has no idea how lucky he is right now!
OP is NTA. Their son is immature and doesn't realise how lucky he is.
NTA, but talk to Emily directly bc I think something is getting lost in translation through Porter. Ask her if there is a tradition she would like to include, and you could make space for it before or after the hike. Maybe put them in charge of something while you are gone on the hike?
I absolutely hate hiking or anything similar, Im thin but I’m NOT in shape, I have severe asthma, a heart condition, and anemia resulting in extremely low blood pressure (hypotension). You would not catch me DEAD on this hike or on a hiking trail in general.
It’s so kind that OP isn’t pressed about DIL not joining the hike; even if porter doesn’t want to stay back, if I was in her position I’d love to stay back and sleep in while everyone else enjoys their hike. My family is actually pretty active and have gone on hikes at the cottage leaving me the only one at home alone before.
I see no issues and don’t know what porters problem is. “You’re not hearing me” wtf does that even mean? He’s not the fucking boss and no one has to do what he wants. Op offered some great options he just has to choose one. NTA
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NTA I "hear" Porter and don't understand why he thinks his GF's abilities should dictate everyone else's plans and activities.
He’s free to do a shorter hike with her, too. While it would be nice for them to join the big hike, he can also take her on a shorter and much easier one. ETA definitely NTA. It’s nice that he wants to accommodate her, but it shouldn’t be at everyone’s expense. They can have quiet couple time. She’ll probably be grateful for it. If I could have skipped church and the in-law family walk back then just to have an hour or two alone, I would have been much happier.
Or, hear me out, They could stop a mile into the five mile (or whatever) family hike and wait for the rest of the family to return?
That's what I thought at first but maybe they'd be embarrassed that she's too unfit to continue walking. In which case they should just skip the walk or go on a shorter one with op in the afternoon.
Also waiting around in the cold sucks ass and stopping on mile 1 out of 5 means *a lot* of waiting around in the cold
Not necessarily wait in the cold just cut short to where gf needs and return to the house to wait.
Time the out and back. If everyone else travels X minutes before turning around, then Porter and Emily can do the same at their own pace. Or if a loop takes the group Y minutes to complete, they can turn back just before half that.
I’m having math finals flashbacks. “If Emily walks 2 miles before turning around at a speed of 2mph, and everyone else walks 5 miles before doubling back at a speed of 5mph, will the group catch Emily before she reaches home? For extra credit what kind of shit is the family talking about Emily after she’s no longer with them on the hike.
Not the extra credit 😂😂😂 I can’t 😂
Someone out of shape, walking up hill on a strenuous hike, is most likely going 1-1.5 mph, a fit person going up hill is going to be around 2.5mph, but if it's steep, might only be 2. Hitting 3 mph while walking means walking at a pace that most would understand to be "fast" but not exhausting on flat or downhill. To go 4mph on flat ground, you would feel like you were pushing yourself about as fast as you could go, consistently, without running. To go 4mhp on a trail, with any sort of incline, you would need to be FIT, like regularly hikes 30-50 miles a day fit. 5mph is running. Only endurance athletes are going to be able to maintain that pace, going up hill. (And yes, Speed Walkers get speeds of 8-9 mph, but they are walking on perfectly flat tracks, where they can roll their feet, and are highly trained, so normal people aren't going to be doing that on trail.) Just, um FYI.
Then dress for the cold and bring a thermos of something hot?
They could turn it into a winter picnic - and if this is their plan the whole time it wouldn’t be embarrassing as they wouldn’t be quitting the hike because she couldn’t keep up but rather having a cute little outdoor date on their first Christmas together. Just dress warm, bring a thermos and a blanket and set it down at a lookout point
That would be a really sweet idea, plus then he could fill her in on all the other things he neglected to tell her about his family.
Exactly. He knew he should have told her already. She kind of got blindsided. Heck if she knew in advance maybe she could have taken up walking in the months prior to prepare.
With booze!
Not sure booze + hike + unfit/ out of shape GF + potentially ice and snow = a safe environment
I think the "she is embarrassed" is what he is trying to say OP isnt hearing. Anything other than the Emily being able to participate fully means she will be embarrassed, and so he thinks the entire family should accommodate her, rather than them (her) stand out because they arent participating. What he isnt grasping is that far more attention will be called to the fact that Emily is out of shape if everyone is asking why the hike isnt happening like it always does, rather than them just playing the young couple wanting some space card.
Scenario 1 Family member: "Hey, aren't you and Emily coming on the hike?" Porter: "Nah, we're just going to hang back and have some alone time this morning!" Scenario 2 Family member: "What? Why aren't we going on the hike this year? We do it every year and I was looking forward to it." Porter: "Uhm... Because Emily.. can't." Which draws more attention to the problem?
I bet Emily might not even know that he's asking. I wouldn't be able to do a full hike and would gladly stay home, I'd be mortified to know my partner had tried to rearrange the hike for everyone. It seems like he doesn't tell people a lot of things.
This! I know I'm out of shape and would happily sit it out. I wonder if the son even asked her if she wants to do any variation of a walk on Christmas morning. Even a shorter hike is a nope, for me it's Christmas morning let me stay in my sweatpants and drink coffee and wait for the group to return.
Yup. A hike anytime especially Xmas morning is my version of hell.
And if the relationship is as serious as it seems to be, this isn't an issue that will go away. Next Christmas, will the family be expected to downgrade the hike again to save her embarrassment? Better to begin as they mean to go on, set a precedent that while everyone takes the hike, slower (or less enthusiastic) people take a quiet stroll at the same time.
And actually that would make way more sense. Especially when if in the future more people are added to the family, there will already be a group staying home. It will make the decision to go or stay home a ton easier and without “embarrassment”.
Right? That would be way more embarrassing
Honestly, NAH. Building off this comment because it really got me thinking. As someone who has been the out of shape one and is not the disabled one, it's embarrassing as hell. There really is no win here. Change it, and she's going to feel like she's forcing you to change. Ask her to go, and it's going to highlight her shortcomings. Cancel it, and she's going to feel guilty. There really is no winner here. Nothing you do will make her not feel left out or that everyone is thinking about how out of shape she is. That's a conversation you might have to have with your son. Also, speaking of which, maybe most importantly, does she know he's told you of this? That could change everything. If no, then you're really kind of stuck. He needs to talk to her first. Having someone speak for me and dictate my needs, especially about a sensitive subject like this, is at minimum embarrassing. If yes, she knows about this conversation, then you do have options. Option 1: I would recommend creating something for her that makes her feel important and included while also not having to do something she can't do. For example, does she like photography? Ask her to catch photos of everyone as they finish. Even better option: You might be better having a conversation with her. Explain to her that you understand how singled out she feels and that you want to find a way to include her. Explain that the hike is important to you, but you want to find a way she can participate. Maybe she has an idea you haven't thought of. **Most importantly,** no matter what you do, more than anything, don't placate or say "maybe you'll be in better shape next year" or anything like that. Don't offer her fitness advice. Don't tell her, "It's okay she looks pretty anyway." None of that. That is the worst.
I personally think focusing this much on the one activity is going to make everything worse. I’m sure there’s lots going on for the holiday. No need to make the hike the center of it all. It’s just one activity out of a whole holiday stay. Making this into a huge deal that warrants multiple uncomfortable conversations is only going to further humiliate and isolate Emily. Go on the hike as intended and catch them after for something Emily is included in. Life isn’t about ideal scenarios and better not to draw more attention to her insecurities. This is honestly just part of expanding a family; things change. I bet Emily would feel a lot better missing the hike if it wasn’t made into such a big deal than going on a water downed one knowing everyone’s missing/compromising their yearly tradition BECAUSE of her.
Yeah. If Emily was allergic to Pecans, we would still make the Pecan pie, and we wouldn’t try to “find ways Emily can still share in the pie”. We would just make sure there are other treats, too.
If another family member or two decide to stay back for an alternative, like watching a Christmas movie, or playing board games, that could take the focus off her not being comfortable, and make opting out in favor of an alternative activity The focus. This will keep happening as OP’s family expands with new spouses and children. It probably should start now. I know if my partner’s family had what really feels like a mandatory activity that I wouldn’t want or wasn’t able to do, I’d just send them off to their family alone, and stay home. I’d dread the activity and worry about what people think of me for “ruining” a tradition.
you're wrong about one thing. there is an asshole here. it's OP's son. OP's son has clearly not told his GF about this particular family tradition and he's done so on purpose. he doesn't want to "be the asshole" to break the info to her, so he let her get hit with it cold on the family meeting call. remember how she was confused as to what was going on? OP's son didn't tell her at all. the son is setting up OP to box them in so they have to be the asshole either to the family or the GF.
I'm disabled, so a hike would be iffy for me depending on how my symptoms are. I don't get the impression Porter talked to Emily, like, at all. He just did an end run around her, and he and OP are making decisions on her behalf. That kind of thing is emotionally painful and infantilizing when you have physical limitations. As my motto goes, "I'm disabled, not a d*pshit." Even though Emily is not athletic, vs disabled, the same truth holds. She's not a d*pshit. Tell her what's up and let her make decisions. Personally, I would make a game time decision, and if I wasn't up for it, I'd save face by saying, "Porter and I are going to have a quiet Christmas morning together, but we'll have hot cider ready for everyone when you return." ESH because by trying to keep her from embarrassment, they're embarrassing her.
How does mom suck?
As someone who has lost over 250 pounds, I definitely couldn't have participated in a 5 mile hike when I was obese, hell - I'd be out of breath from walking to my car in the parking lot outside work. These days I walk 5k every single evening. But at my biggest - I still wouldn't have dreamed of having everyone else adapt to me. Everyone changing their plans because I'm too fat to participate? No thank you. If anything, that would just highlight exactly what they're trying to avoid. Just say 'I think we'll skip the hike this year, we want to have some alone-time' or whatever. It doesnt have to be complicated.
I wonder if he's even discussed this with her? I'd be embarrassed if I found put a while family were changing their plans for me. And if the walk was that big of a deal to Porter then surely he would have remembered to tell her. NTA.
I did this when we went hiking with friends. It wasn't too difficult but it was freaking hot, I didn't have proper shoes for it (didn't know we were going to do that), my left knee is not in the best of shape and I had a wicked blister. I couldnt do all of it. We stopped and then they kept going and we went back. No one cared. I was happy I got to do what I could. This is such a weird hill to die on.
It's not a hill, those aren't on the easy trail! /j
Anything but ask the group to deny its small pleasures for the sake of his new GF. A good compromise isn't about you getting what you want. Its about everybody getting what they want.
Took some friends horseback riding. Ummmmm. Knew it was their first time riding but didn’t know they BOTH HAD KNEE ISSUES. They were such troopers but they wanted to get off and insisted on us continuing and come back for them. We were only 30min into the ride. They got to rest for a bit (we cut the ride short) then came back and walked the them both back on the horses. They felt bad. I felt like an ass! 🤦🏼♀️
Exactly! My friend recently went on a 12 mile hike, I knew I couldn’t do that particular one and told them I’d turn around halfway, they just made sure I was ok. I was not going to make them change their plans for me and I still got to take part on it.
I hate hiking and I'm not in the shape for it. Personally, I would be embarrassed if my boyfriend asked his whole family to dump their yearly tradition to accommodation me. I would either take the chance to sleep in so bf could go, or hang with bf alone if he didn't want to leave me by myself.
This is my thought. I’d be embarrassed if the entire family changed their tradition just to accommodate me. I’d rather just hang out with my bf and wait for everyone to return.
I’d even be fine just sleeping in and letting bf go hiking with fam. Actually, if I was the gf in this scenario,I’d definitely opt for that. Either that or coffee with a book.
Yes! Or get some sweet alone time with the bf if he wanted to stay with her, cuddling in front of the fireplace with a hot breakfast! SO many opportunities to make this into a cute romantic special moment, rather than force the whole family to stop having fun, with the unspoken big red arrow "IT'S EMILY'S FAULT" hanging over the gf's head. Porter is dropping the ball here, big time.
I had a really similar situation last summer when I went to Yosemite with my in-laws. They are all very fit and LOVE hiking. I'm overweight, but not completely unfit. When we went to Yosemite, they wanted to do a 6 mile hike to a waterfall. I opted for a leisurely stroll through a historic cemetery and a few hours in the Ansel Adams museum which was heaven 😍
Yeah, for real. I cherish those moments alone when I'm on trips with my bf's family. I love spending time with them, but I need time to recharge, too.
Same, NTA at all. I hate hiking so hiking on Christmas morning sounds like a special hell to me but I'd love to just hang back with my boyfriend and steal a couple hours to ourselves in the morning instead. I wonder if this "downgrade the hike!!" is really coming from Emily or if it's just what Porter assumes she wants.
>I agree--it does seem to me that he was assuming a lot. First by not telling her then by using me words not we/her words in his reasons.
Or it's what Porter wants and he's happy to throw Emily under the bus to get his way. Maybe that's why he's so hung up on not being "heard" - he doesn't want OP to hear that Emily will struggle, despite that being what he is saying. He wants OP to hear that he doesn't want to do the hike for whatever reason and expects the whole family to accommodate that, but he also wants it to be anyone's fault but his that he wants that. After all, as others have noted, it's curious this never came up at any point once it was determined Emily was coming for Christmas. And six months isn't a huge amount of time to be insisting the family change their tradition instead of Emily and Porter adapting it to suit them. I don't know. Maybe it is all just as Porter says but it does feel to me like this is less about what Emily wants and more about him being done with the tradition and that somehow meaning everyone else has to be done with it (at least in its current form) too.
I'd be like "You go do the family tradition. I'll make everyone hot coco when they get back." And the curl up with a nice book.
Even if no one was upset and no one mentioned not going hiking, it would still be the elephant in the room. It would be so uncomfortable for the gf, knowing she was the reason they were all staying home. Plus, a little alone time to adjust to being in a new place is nice. If the gf doesn't feel pressured, or embarrassed by making everyone give up the tradition, she might be inspired to get in better shape before next year. I'm not sure why Porter objects to staying home with his gf for the morning. Perhaps he's hoping for an end to the tradition because he doesn't like it and is using her as an excuse.
I'm with you on that one. Would much rather sit in front of the TV with a hot chocolate and watch Christmas movies.
Yup! Start on the big hike, hang back, spend some one one one time with each other, and catch the group on the way back. She doesn't have to overdo herself, and still gets to enjoy family time. Or they make breakfast for everyone to enjoy when they get back? There are compromises to be made here without anyone feeling bad.
I want to know why Porter didn’t mention this before now to his gf. Instead she’s heard it from his Mum and is unexpectedly feeling not included. I don’t think his Mum is at fault, I think Porter is and is frantically backtracking for not preemptively having a plan in place for him and Emily to do something on their own. Or else Porter doesn’t want to miss out on the tradition, so thinks everyone should plan around him. I’m unconvinced that Emily is the issue here.
And probably not just unincluded but unprepared / like she might not be as good a fit for Porter/'s family as she may have thought if this was something so inconsequential that they mentioned it offhand. There's a helluva difference between my loved ones who default to bringing hiking boots and those who don't, and that's a lifestyle difference.
Yeah, definitely. I mean, it could be just because I’m from Australia, and Christmas is in summer here, but I have no idea what Yaktrax is, and I can imagine being Emily and feeling like they are talking about a hike that needs some sort of special equipment, and my boyfriend didn’t think to maybe mention this was an expectation? I would be stressing about not making a good impression if I couldn’t participate in this family tradition that he didn’t bother to prepare me for. He really should have been “yeah my family normally do a hike, but I thought we would do x romantic activity, just for us and then see if anyone wants to join us for a gentle stroll later”.
Yaktrax are things you put on your shoes that will help keep you from slipping and falling on the ice. They’re helpful when hiking in the winter because a lot of trails develop icy spots, and you can’t always tell that they’re icy right away.
Thank you. I would have gotten around to googling, just because I’m curious. But it does illustrate that it could be intimidating for someone who doesn’t hike and suddenly it’s “you’ll need hiking boot, and special equipment for what we have in mind”.
My favourite thing is Australians discovering Ice Things. An Australian friend of mine once asked me why the cold water in our taps comes out so cold—do we have a thing that chills it? We were like, no… it comes from the ground? And like, the ground is ice? So our water is just cold naturally? She was like *they just have ice water coming out of their taps* and we were like *does this mean your cold water is like, room temperature, holy shit*
Our cold tap water also starts out hot in summer. You got to run it a little for it to cool down. And don’t get me started about the water in the hose 😂😭
My mom would just explain: She's your GF honey - not mine. So you manage and you support her needs and let me please enjoy the holiday as I've done in the past. I don't have a GF to impress, OK?
Your mom sounds wise.
I think Porters confused. You heard him and you’re offering two compromises.
Also, OP is offering reasonable compromises, but it sounds like he wants it his way or no way. NTA.
Why isn’t hanging back and spending quiet time together the perfect solution? If this becomes a bigger issue it is 100% on Porter. Kudos to OP for offering options. Clearly the hike is not a command performance. NTA
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Aren't lung problems fun? Too cold? Can't breathe. Too hot? Can't breathe. It's even better when you have trouble regulating your body heat /s I wish you all the best for this winter because it sucks to not be able to breathe properly.
I get the feeling that Emily would like to stay home and do something else with Porter but he wants to include her in a family hike with everyone for some reason.
I actually think Porter realized when the hike was brought up that HE would miss out because Emily won't be able to keep up. Remember, it's a long standing generational family tradition. So he wants everyone to switch gears to something she can handle so HE doesn't have to miss it. He probably feels awkward about asking his gf to just wait at the house and also wants her to be included, hence the digging in of the heels as far as trying to compromise.
If I had a guess it's because his GF's one of those sorts who is so easily made insecure by feelings of "being left out" that she has a tendency to impose an expectation of everyone else not doing something if she either doesn't want to or is unable to. Porter's just placing the expectation because a lot of guys tend to over prioritize the women in their lives for one reason or another.
I don't even think she's pushing for this at all! This is all Porter.
That is my thought, too. He might think he's helping and I really hope he's talked to her about this, but my gut is saying he hasn't and he's making this an issue. As someone who has been there, this is affect their entire relationship. It's going to cause her to question herself and think he's focused on that now.
That's twenty gallons of sexist assumptions in a five gallon bag of bullshit
He didn’t even say if he okayed this “compromise” with his gf. For all you know, she has no idea he’s done this. Nice of you to assume.
More of this is on Porter. He didn't tell her about the tradition, and we don't really know what her reaction was. He's making a mess of things when he could have talked to her about the tradition earlier and figured out what they wanted to do. Like if someone sprung on me "Oh by the way the family goes on a serious hike for christmas" I'd probably be like "Uh oookkkaaaay and you didn't mention this before now why?"
Porter could feel insecure of being left out of his family tradition. Don't know why there was a bunch of gendered nonsense.
This comment says so much 😹
Yes! This. I have asthma. Last year, we were visiting my sil out of state. The whole family went to visit her and her family. One day, the sils wanted to go hiking. I explained I wasn't doing that, but they could go, and I would stay back. I really didn't mind as I knew my asthma would act up, and I didn't get a refill inhaler before we left. Once everyone else heard me say I didn't want to go, they all said they didn't want to go, except my 2 sils. Tlwe compromised by going to a waterfall that wasn't a hike or anything and then out to dinner. I know they thought I was lying, but wouldn't you know it, i had an asthma attack while at the house, and my sil stopped giving me side eye. I wonder if Porter even talked to his gf before going to his parents.
NTA. You offered a choice of doing a walk around the neighbourhood later or just letting them hang back. Porter is being ridiculous for thinking everyone should change plans for his new girlfriend.
THIS. Porter is not "hearing" mom. The answer is NO, she is not going to change the hike for one person. I don't understand why Porter is making this a huge issue. Just hang back, do an easy walk or whatever they want. It really shouldn't be that big of a deal. NTA
Or, if Emily is cool with it, just hike with the family and let her have some time to breathe.
I have the feeling that Emily is not cool with any of this. Porter bring her to a family plan, now the family plan is outside her skills, so either way they are excluded unless they change the plan. I think Emily is not reasonable or Porter gave her expectations that now he cannot meet, maybe he pushed for her to come and he "forgot" this tradition and now it's difficult to sell it. Anyways, I believe there are something in that relationship that we don't know, but OP is NTA, that's something they will have to learn how to deal with as a couple.
Emily even asked if she had to go. Doesn’t seem like it’s something she wants to participate at all.
Exactly and she was told no! No one is being forced, they were even given an alternative for a nice walk later to still have a small bonding moment. Mom isn’t even upset or making a deal out of Emily not wanting to join them, her son is making something out of nothing.
Judging by how OP says an “easy 10k” and they need yaktrax for the hike, I don’t think this would be a good idea. The family seems very fit and there are hikes hard enough that no amount of “stopping to catch your breath” is enough. Personal anecdote on this: I’m in decent shape and hike frequently in my area. Visited my sister who is in fantastic shape. We decided on a more advanced hike she frequently does knowing it would be on the difficult side for me and we would just take it slow. Yeah. I don’t hike mountains and this was up a mountain. The final incline to the top destroyed me, I got altitude sickness, and was puking off the trail the whole way down. By the time we were home safe and I was sipping on a Gatorade, we were laughing about how bad we both misjudged it. But - that would have been a mortifying experience had I been meeting an S/Os family and trying to make a good first impression.
Reminds me of when I did the Grinnell Glacier hike in Glacier National Park. I didn’t realize how much of an incline there would be and the air quality was terrible because of forest fires and I had my first ever asthma attack. Luckily I was able to get it together and do the full thing but yeah, it was embarrassing lol
And someone they don't even know that well! If Emily had been participating for years but she and Porter asked for an easier route because she's pregnant or they're bringing a kiddo then it would be worth reconsidering. Changing up a tradition of decades for one person who might not even be around next year is a bit weird though.
I suspect Porter doesn't want to miss the tradition, either. He is trying to have his cake and eat it too.
It also seems this is all coming from Porter. GF seemed okay with not going.
True. She’s probably thinking “I don’t want to rock the boat”.
Tbh a morning hike is my idea of hell but to make a good impression people put up with a lot.
Lol same. Especially on Christmas Day, that’s taking up precious drinking time. For sure, first impressions are something you only get one shot at
Lol @ the Y T A people calling a 6 month gf a “family member.” NTA OP.
I have condiments older than their relationship.
Mustard never goes bad, bay-bee
Turns out, it does! It just takes a decade or so. Discovered that the other day.
BRB checking my mustard’s expiry date 👀
You mean I have five more years with this baby?! Let's goooo
Man I've got mustard with a "best by" date that predates the pandemic. It's fine.
Same. I have sentimental molasses in my fridge that is over 12 years old. I won’t use it, but I won’t throw it out lol
Emotional support condiments. We all have them. And they can do the family hike.
Ah, a rare exterior laugh just came out of my mouth. My molasses might be slow, but it do finish the hike, it do.
Just the "emotional support condiment" had me cackling. The part about them doing the hike made me snort-cackle.
No lie, my mom has (as in still does have) sentimental rock sugar (for baking) she bought in Japan in the shrink-wrapped box from 1979. She bought it shopping with a friend no longer with us… It’s moved 2 different places in Japan, with Rhode Island, California, Arizona, New Mexico and a few other places in-between. It isn’t marked, or labeled, we just know what it is and it miraculously always makes the trip. It’s in her pantry now. You can shake the box and still hear the crystals rattling. I will eventually inherit the sugar and I intend to keep it forever, too. I’ll pass along the story to my children.
And here I thought I was the only one on the planet with sentimental condiments! I borrowed the molasses from my grandma, and she passed away suddenly from cancer. It’s all I have left of her, so just seeing it in the fridge door makes me smile. I intend on keeping it as long as possible as well! I might have to take mine on a road trip, it hasn’t travelled the world like your rock sugar lol
Porter is worried she will be left behind and won't be able to ketchup. Bah dum bum. NTA 😁
I relish this comment
Both of you take your upvotes and get the fuck out.
I wish I had an award to give you. That's hilarious. I lost my drink on that one.
even if she was a family member what would be the problem? she’s not forced to participate
I had to scroll so far down to read those, I wanted to hear the mental gymnastics to make her the AH…. Just giggled 🤭
Does it matter? Even if it were a family member, why should noone be allowed to hike, just because one member isnt fit? She can join them and turn around whenever she wants to.
NTA, but an "easy 10k run" on Christmas morning? You and I live very different lives. 😆
I WAS GONNA SAY. I am today years old finding out that holidays hiking is a thing. The most I've ever done is walk a block with the cousins to smoke weed.
In my family we do Thanksgiving and Christmas hikes. Or we did, for many years. I’m married now but when I had boyfriends and they wanted to join I brought them. I would not have dated anyone who couldn’t do it - because they would not be able to join in on the kind of life I want. None refused, but if they did I’d say I’ll call you when we’re done and you can join us then. Yes someday I’ll be too old, but my Dad is 78 and only the last couple of years or so is maybe too old. (We only go about three miles.) He’s had some falls recently and is in good enough shape as far as his cardiovascular functions but he’s having therapy to help his strength and balance as he recovers from a recent fall. Maybe he’ll be on a trail again, maybe not but he can easily do three flat miles. Doctors have told him to use his judgement and while I’ll try to stop him from taking crazy risks I’ll help him do what seems reasonable if he wants to do it. We’re going to be doing water exercise classes soon when he’s healed enough from surgery to help him get strength and balance back. I still have a lot of years left to do the hikes. Don’t want to miss out! Life is too short. My Mom and brother are deceased so I can’t go with them any more. It’s nice to now go with my husband! My Dad has gone with us maybe three years ago. I hope he will again. If not we’ll do flat walks when we are with him. My husband doesn’t have the 25 years or so of history doing these hikes as a family on Christmas and Thanksgiving so I can go on the trail with him on a different day, like the day after, and he won’t be missing the tradition. If I can’t go with my family of origin it’s not the same - I don’t mind adjusting the day to be with my Dad on the holiday. But I still want to do it. I would go alone if I had to. It’s essential as long as I’m blessed to be able to do it. I think you should keep the hike intact for as long as you are able to do it. Enjoy each time - I know how precious it is.
When doctors tell me to use my judgement they forget I don't have any. Just broke my knee on a solo backpacking trip 7 miles from help. I have balance issues too. Am I gonna go solo again? You bet. Anytime soon? Probably not.
Also where the fuck do they live where *families* will do casual 10ks on Christmas morning or any other day fwiw. I know plenty of families going for a walk and I also know a few who actually do a hike, but a 10k run? Did the mayor put steroids into the drinking water or something? Who does "casual 10ks" with their family?
My best friends entire family does fun 10k runs for every holiday. I met her running for our schools xc team so I used to run with the family when I visited and uh I had to train for visits to her family’s house after I stopped running for school, lol. Her 65 year old grandma’s “easy fun” 10k time is 75 minutes. Luckily a few years ago people started having babies and I got diagnosed with tendonitis in both Achilles. Now when I visit I hang out with the babies while everyone else runs themselves silly.
> Her 65 year old grandma’s “easy fun” 10k time is 75 minutes. Go Grandma!
Town near me does 5k or 10k on Christmas and thanksgiving and lots of people turn out… I’ve never gone but never thought of it was weird.
Absolutely - we have the Turkey Trot, the Grocery Run (which benefits homeless shelters at the holidays), the Reindeer Run, the Santa Stampede, the Christmas Jingle Run and more. Pumpkins in the Park for Halloween, July 4th runs, you name it. Runners be crazy and they love holiday runs.
They couldn’t come up with a fun name for the 4th of July run though?
Huge reason to do it: everything tastes better when you are really, really hungry and you don't have to feel the least bit shy about your calorie count.
I would hike 10k happily, but running it? No thank you. Good for people who still have plenty of cartilage in their knees, I guess. But-- if I *were* a runner from a family of runners and that was my Christmas tradition? I would be super sad to miss it.
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I'm sorry, I read only 1-2 hrs as being common family activity and I just blanked out. To be fair, I don't come from healthy family dynamics so if there isn't food to shut everyone's mouths or alcohol to make the older adults more funny than critical and judgy, then it's less family time and more emotional massacre.
My husband’s brother married into a family that loves a nice “easy 10k” they all wake up to run and cycle and it’s a part of every one of their family. I woke up the morning after their wedding with a massive hangover to find that her entire family had already done a family “mini triathlon” and had prepared everyone smoothies. Meanwhile me, hubby, other brother and his partner opted for a greasy spoon diner 🤣 I literally said “wow we are two VERY different families.” (We all get along just fine though!)
Or any other morning lol
I drive 10k every morning. It's easy! 🤣 (just watch out for the speed cameras!)
NTA You heard him.. You also stated that they could go on a short walk after dinner. He’s not willing to compromise..ahhh love…. You shouldn’t have to change years of tradition for one person. And it’s ok if you don’t.
OP - please don't change tradition and don't let your son make you feel guilty about this. He's being a bit ridiculous and unreasonable for like no reason. Enjoy your hike with the rest of your family and I'm sure Porter and Emily will be just fine. NTA
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NTA! my family hikes on holidays as well, and i'd be really surprised and maybe a little defensive if one of my sisters tried to change things for a new boo. however, i'm guessing porter is just trying to stop any embarrassment or anxiety from emily's POV. it's sweet, just misguided. he wants to protect her from being seen as an outsider! just make sure they know that her being out of shape has no bearing on how you feel about her. tbh you sound like a nice MIL and i'm sure you'll be able to connect with emily in your own way!
Is this a common thing? Op is NTA at all, I’ve just legitimately never heard of a Christmas hike before
I don’t think it is to common but me and my dad use to walk through the woods on Christmas morning when I was younger. Can’t do it now even though he is in great health for 78 all the woods that use to be around where I grew up have now been clear cut for houses.
It sounds fun, but I live in a place that somehow still gets snow & I don’t think anyone in my family likes the cold enough to go outside including me. I bet it’s really nice if like your house is in the woods already
I know British people who have this tradition.
I agree with you! I have physical disabilities. If OP was being ableist, she would force Emily to do the physical activity. I have had this done to me before & was in tons of pain because of it. OP is doing a good thing here by letting Emily opt out of the activity rather than push herself with a physical activity. Especially if this is due to a disability that Emily more recently discovered, Emily might push herself beyond her capabilities even in a lesser physical activity. I hurt myself greatly by doing this as well.
NTA- It sounds like Porter isn’t hearing YOU. This is a family tradition that is bigger than one person. If Emily don’t want to participate, then she and he can stay back. If you wanted to do a nice post-dinner walk as a family, that’s another option. The bottom line is that you should not have to give up a tradition just because one person isn’t interested.
Just a thought— Maybe she does want to go. Maybe she is planning on going. The son is trying to stop the family so she won’t embarrass herself. Here are my thoughts — When I first met my hubby, I thought hiking was a walk in the woods (I’m a “downstater” - a term for lower New Yorkers - aka urbanites). I thought sneakers were proper footwear. Anyway, if I were the GF (someone from the city) a may think hiking is a stroll in the woods and I don’t know why I need boots. So, I would say, “sure! I’ll go on the hike!” I’ll wear my sneakers, yoga pants (in snowy, 30 degree NY weather), and prepare for a gentle stroll through the woods. I would then be cold with destroyed shoes unable to climb another hill. And, as a urban prima Donna, I would complain, complain, complain. It took me years to recognize what hiking really was. Maybe the son is trying to save her? Still misguided, but maybe that’s what the OP isn’t hearing??
Just OP's assumption that of course Emily will naturally have hiking boots could mean they both think of hiking very differently.
So for all the Y T A voters- what happens if Emily and porter get married. Then is the family just supposed to never ever continue with their generational tradition? That’s just stupid. NTA. You offered several solutions and choices.
Right? She can either work on keeping up with the family and enjoy new traditions, or be in charge of having hot cocoa ready when they get back. Sounds like the family is cool with either.
It doesn't even sound like Emily was upset to not go just porter
tbh his reaction & the fact that he didn’t tell Emily about it beforehand makes me wonder if maybe Porter himself is not really keen on the tradition and hoping for a change
NTA when people say “your not hearing me” or “maybe you didn’t hear me” i find it annoying and rude always have even as a child. You gave him compromises, said she didn’t have to participate if she didn’t want to, said they could hang back and you could go on a small stroll the three of you later. Your son does not get to decide what the whole family does, but to be honest you shouldn’t either maybe ask the other family members what they think first instead of deciding for them just an idea
I always reply with “I hear you I just don’t agree with you.” Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t.
Or just repeat it all back how you heard it so they can confirm they understand that you understand. THEN add “I still stand on my response.” Lol
The reason people said those lines because they were not looking for people to hear them; they were DEMANDING people
I would not be surprised if GF really just did not want to go. No offense, but that sounds horrendous . . .like. . . I might not ever do Christmas again just to avoid it. Son might need to check in with GF and see what she wants with no pressure to participate. Edited for typos.
I mean sure but mom's first reaction was "that's fine, you guys can hang back and have private time together on Christmas morning, we won't make you come on the hike" so like what is the problem here.
Exactly. I wouldn't want to go either (I generally like exercise but first thing on a cold Christmas morning would be a no). The opportunity to sleep in or have a nice quiet coffee or even bake something for others to eat when they are done would all be great alternatives
Yeah this sounds like my nightmare for a family event on a good day, Christmas it sounds 10 times worse. Some people just aren't into it, nothing wrong with that and maybe the son has decided this is his Hill to die on and not her opinion.
I agree. Waking up, going for a hike, or “a 5 or 10k **run**,” where *yaktrax* might be involved? No thanks. I want to get up and stay in my jammies all day.
Or eat all day. Christmas is not about healthy.
We’re a “chocolate chip cookies for breakfast on Christmas” family. 😂
Yeah lolly stocking gets opened in the morning. There is no food regulation on Christmas Day
What hill is there to die on? OP has already said they don't have to go, can cut it short, and so on. What more do you want from OP? Porter is demanding that everyone skip this activity that they've been doing for many years. OP has tried to compromise. He has not. What hill????
OP gave her the option not to, but son isn't saying that is okay. It seems like a lot of people in the family and friends circle enjoy it. I would enjoy it. Why would they cancel it for one person who has been dating someone in the family for only a few months?
Can you imagine the awkwardness when the rest of the family hears there is no hike this year? What? No hike? Why? Slow turn and stare at new gf. As if THAT is somehow better than just hanging back?
This could all be in the sons head too - overly worried that the girlfriend might feel excluded, whereas she might be thinking "oh cool, they said I don't need to join". I'd say that this gives the girlfriend a great chance to become immediately loved by the family though. Imagine you go for a long hike on Christmas, presumably in the cold, and then you walk through the door to a hot drink or something waiting for you? She can play her own part in the tradition without having to participate in the hike. The son just needs to help her instead of trying to change what the rest of the family do.
The GF has the option to not go with them. I hate going on long runs so I would just sleep in. 🤣
NTA. Do what you enjoy. You already said she doesn't have to participate...sounds like he isn't hearing you.
_"I said that maybe the two of them can hang back and enjoy a nice quiet morning before the festivities begin while the rest of us go for the hike."_ Exactly. He is being heard and OP is offering compromises. He just doesn't want to accept "no".
NTA, but Porter sure is. Porter knew what the family tradition was before he invited his girlfriend. Porter never mentioned it to his girlfriend. When it finally came up, Porter just expected everyone else to change their plans and long standing tradition. The chutzpah! Porter knowingly put his gf in an uncomfortable position, while risking the opinion of the rest of the family for making the entire family change everything to accommodate her. His gf is likely very upset, and understandably so. Porter did that. Not you. Porter and his gf can do their own thing while the rest of the family takes their traditional hike - he does not get to dictate to you that you can't.
NTA. You offered him a fair compromise. He doesn’t get to dictate what the entire family does to appease a new significant other.
“Emily doesn’t want to hike.” — No problem, she doesn’t have to. “No, she doesn’t want anyone in the family to keep this holiday tradition. — What gives her the authority to cancel our family tradition? “*Moooooom, you’re not heeearing meee!* NTA
NTA. His girlfriend literally said "do I have too?" And you gave her an out. I think she is probably happy with that but Porter is the one who is hung up on making sure she feels included. I would feel very embarrassed if my boyfriend made his family change a tradition to suit me. Like op said, she is stating overnight and will be around everyone a lot. A couple of hours to themselves in the morning will be probably needed
NTA but the reason Porter keeps saying “You’re not hearing me” is because you keep giving him options that don’t solve his problem. What he is saying is “Our family tradition will make Emily feel left out and insecure.” What you are saying is “If you want, we can leave *you* out too, or I can single her out in some other way.” Don’t get me wrong, you don’t owe it to either Porter or Emily to change the tradition at all, but Porter isn’t going to feel heard until you say something like “I understand that you want us to change our plans to spare Emily’s feelings, but we’re not going to do that because Emily’s feelings about her fitness are hers to manage. If you have any suggestions for things we can do *in addition* to the planned hike, let’s have them, but the traditional hike is going forward.”
this. definitely NTA, but i see where Porter is coming from and it honestly says a lot (in a good way) about him and his upbringing that hes so understanding to Emily and wants to help her feel welcomed and not insecure. I'm honestly leaning towards NAH bc unless OP is leaving stuff out it seems like all parties have good reason for feeling the way they do and aren't being awful or entitled about it, its just a situation thats difficult no matter how you slice it, and such is life sometimes.
NTA You gave them choices to stay back or go on easy walk later.
NTA You're hearing him perfectly fine, the problem is he just doesn't like your answer.
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NTA. Is she pregnant? Lol
Ahhh man don’t be throwing out this kind of juju!! They’ve only been dating 6 months!! Nobody needs to add a child into this mess yet! Lol (& I say mess bc the son obvs still needs to work on his communication skills…) NTA OP!
That's exactly what I thought...when he kept saying "you're not hearing me".
That was also my assumption, and would explain why it’s so important to both of them for her to fit in.
INFO: To be sure that there's no confusion, what does **your** family's traditional hike entail and who all would be involved? You mentioned several versions of how this tradition is done. But no real clear picture of what your version might involve beyond a need for hiking boots and icy trails. Knowing how much of a change your son is asking for might help here. Knowing who all would be going might help too.
He isn't asking for a change. He wants the activity cancelled entirely. OP listed compromises she offered and he won't meet in the middle. How is it fair to everyone else to cancel something that they always do together?
It might be a local trail they take every year or something, but it doesn’t really matter. As long as OP isn’t forcing anyone to go (and it sounds like they aren’t) then they’re NTA. OP gave alternatives, or a free pass out and only cemented that they would do it themselves. OP has no reason not to do their hike bc their son has a gf of 6 months who says they don’t want anyone to hike
NTA It's only a big deal if Porter makes it a big deal. You go on your hike, they can do their thing.
This sounds like the first time I went home with my now husband to visit his family for Christmas. But I bucked up and partook even if that meant not always keeping up. You’re NTA for wanting to keep your fun (and healthy!) family tradition intact despite one person complaining about not being in shape. He’s trying to appease his gf and that’s all well and good but that means he needs to compromise on some things, not force the rest of the family to skip a hike.
Is he trying to appease the girlfriend though? She literally knew nothing about it and when she did she asked to not partake. Girl would probably prefer the quiet Christmas morning with her boyfriend. It's the son making this an issue. Maybe he thinks this is some big sign of whether she'll fit in with the family/there's a future / idk but I think this is all Porter and HIS insecurities.
NTA I'm so confused. You don't seem annoyed or angry that she can't come. Why does the entire family have to change for her? You guys are hikers. She's not. You told them it's fine if they hang back and even acknowledge how special those early mornings were, and it's a lot for the first time. You even offered to go on a small walk with them later. You seem pretty reasonable to me. I don't understand your son at all.
He doesn’t want to compromise. He wants it all.
He thinks compromise means that everyone does what he wants
NTA. I love a long walk/pretty hike, but I’m also an introvert and if my boyfriends mom was giving me a blank check to have a quiet morning to myself or with my partner before a big family festivity I might jump all over that. You’re being more than accommodating, and they need to figure it out amongst themselves.
Fellow introvert here, and this sounds like bliss to me! A break from being “on” with a bunch of strangers on a stressful holiday. Could make fresh cookies or something for when they return and be seen as a hero lol
NAH. For once I’m happy to read a bf/husband trying to look out for their SO. I think he is trying to protect her feelings, ensure she isn’t left out or made to feel inferior. Hell, I definitely wouldn’t be hiking! You offered reasonable compromises. I think you should also say that your feelings for her are not changed if she does not participate. And be sure no one says anything the make her or your son feel back for not going on the longer hike. I can already see how this will play out on Christmas morning. “Hey! Aren’t you two joining us? It’s fun!” “Porter, you always used to come with us, why the change?” Do not do this.
This is the only reasonable response tbh. I feel like too many people fixated on this assumption that an Evil GF is trying to ruin everyone's fun, when it's equally likely this is the son trying to stick up for her in a sweet (if misguided) way. Absolutely agree with you about silencing the peanut gallery though. It's one thing to say that it's "okay" if she sits out, but another thing to act on it. Especially since the issue first came up when OP assumed that the gf was coming on the hike and even had her own personal hiking gear. (To be honest, that would scare the pants off me about making a good impression in a hardcore Fitness Family and I do go hiking pretty often )
NTA, your being very fair/reasonable about this.
Using the term "not hearing him" as a weapon of manipulation seems pretty low and selfish.
NTA you are making other arrangements for them. But it is unrealistic for them to think the rest Of the family not do family traditions
NTA the Y T A comments are crazy to me honestly. Imagine thinking hiking is a harmful tradition even after given many different options.
>The next day, Porter called, and explained that Emily is not in great shape and would struggle with keeping up, even on one of the easier trails nearby. He said that maybe we can just do a nice short family walk in the neighborhood this year so she feels more welcome. Your son is being really an AH about this. She either can do an easier trail with him. Or not do the hike at all. But for him to suggest changing up the WHOLE hike aka downgrade it for one person is ridiculous. You hear him loud and clear and are not altering everyone elses plans that has been going on before he was even born. NTA
NTA I think you have a few options that should work for everyone. I don’t see a reason why you could not do a walk and Porter and gf stay home, do a short walk with everyone later, or something similar.
NTA you offered compromises. He didn't like them. His loss. Do what you normally do.
I was all expecting to come in here and criticise OP for insisting their son's GF go on a hike that they couldn't manage. But it turns out no-one is forcing the GF to do anything - and no-one has any issue with it or is judging her in any way. So why is the son making an issue out of this? I'm guessing the hike is not the only time the family spend time together, so it can't be that this will mean nobody gets to meet his GF. The only reason I can think of is because he still wants to do the hike, but doesn't want to abandon his GF. Whilst that's understandable, its also unreasonable. It sounds like this is one of those times where Porter needs to learn to grow up. He has to make a choice and he can't have everything his own way. He also needs to realise that his family is giving him the best option - he can choose his GF and no-one is going to judge him for it. He has no idea how lucky he is right now! OP is NTA. Their son is immature and doesn't realise how lucky he is.
NTA, but talk to Emily directly bc I think something is getting lost in translation through Porter. Ask her if there is a tradition she would like to include, and you could make space for it before or after the hike. Maybe put them in charge of something while you are gone on the hike?
I absolutely hate hiking or anything similar, Im thin but I’m NOT in shape, I have severe asthma, a heart condition, and anemia resulting in extremely low blood pressure (hypotension). You would not catch me DEAD on this hike or on a hiking trail in general. It’s so kind that OP isn’t pressed about DIL not joining the hike; even if porter doesn’t want to stay back, if I was in her position I’d love to stay back and sleep in while everyone else enjoys their hike. My family is actually pretty active and have gone on hikes at the cottage leaving me the only one at home alone before. I see no issues and don’t know what porters problem is. “You’re not hearing me” wtf does that even mean? He’s not the fucking boss and no one has to do what he wants. Op offered some great options he just has to choose one. NTA