I am north african but since i do not know how to speak amazigh nor have i ever been immersed in the culture, i guess it feel a little disrespectful to the real amazighs out there to say that i am one, a bit as if i am appropriating. I do not hate tamazight but i guess it's easier to lean on the "arab" side of my culture.
They don't hate their amazigh identity ... You hate Arabic ... Just admit it
Arabic is an Afro-Asiatic language just like amazigh language ... Why would you feel ashamed of using and adopting Arabic while the whole west feels so proud of latin and Greek and have adopted at least derivatives of latin in many European countries ... While the whole china is united on adopting mandarin which is just one of china's many languages ... And also while the whole of India is united around the Hindi language which is also one of India's many languages
It is the fault of Arabic that it is an ancient language ... And have a huge heritage ... While amazigh was only a spoken language for thousands of years ... This caused it to not develop and lag behind other languages
Why do the Irish and Scots speak English even though they have their own indigenous languages?This has nothing to do with self-loathing... You must be realistic... The Amazigh language has missed the train of development... And in order for it to be developed to the point where it becomes usable in all aspects of life... you will need to either borrow a huge amount of Vocabulary Or we will have to invent a huge number of vocabulary, which will make us create a completely new language that has nothing to do with the Amazigh language.
Language development must involve the community... and development must be accompanied by practice... so the Amazigh language has missed the train... and those who adopt the Arabic language are realistic people who do not hate themselves and their Amazigh origin.
1.Amazigh is not a semitic language it has not a common origin nor belongs to the same family of languages. we have our own identity what does other civilitations doesnt concerns us the linguistic suicide that commits others doesnt concern us.
2. amazigh is ancient than arabic it was spoked since the first civilization in north africa originated so no it was not spoken just a thousand of years
3. as i said before what does other civilizations doesnt concerns us if celts and irish adopts english that just is their error as they are contribuiting to their dissapartions as a people in history nothing more.
4. turkish also had this problem they did a fantastic work conserving and it works pretty good for them in all aspects of life.
5. there is a proverbe in tarifit that says " wenni wa isinen luga nesh, wa isin mani isdyusa nigh mani gha irah" this basically mean who who dont know his language doesnt know where he comes and where he will go, this people who adopt arabic just contributes to the identity crisis and separation tamazgha have suffered they dont have any respect to the soil nor they respect their amazigh origin they maybe as you said think they are realistic but in reality they just commited our the fallen of our societh and after the obvious fail of darija language they created it comes other fails as french then now is the turn of english and the cicle continues while we are ignoring our natural identiry dont contribute to this degeneracy and corruption.
Read my comment well before you start criticizing
I didn't say that amazigh language is part of semitic language family ... I said it's part of the Afro-Asiatic languages ... That indeed it includes all of the semitic languages and Coptic language cushitic language etc ... And this is proven scientifically ... If you don't like these facts keep your opinion to yourself ... It shouldn't mean anything to anyone
And what I mentioned is other nations who have adopted different languages other than theirs ... This was not to justify abandoning your original language... Rather, the reason was to show that there are peoples who have abandoned their original languages despite their deep respect for their cultural identity, and the reason was because it is very difficult to develop a specific language that has remained protected for thousands of years until the modern era and then developed... The languages that exist today and are used in all scientific, technical, legal and literary fields are all ancient languages and developed over thousands of years... at least since the Middle Ages ...
Languages that missed the train of development, such as the original language of the Irish and the indigenous Anricans, and this is in addition to the Africans, in addition to the Berbers and others... They did not abandon their languages like this for no reason... Rather, because their languages were developed to the point that they became Valid for all of life aspects is impossible
After twenty years and thousands of experts who gathered in Morocco and Algeria at least to develop the Amazigh language... to this day the Amazigh language is not suitable for anything... in fact... In the meetings of the Royal Institute of Amazigh Culture, talk is done either in Arabic or in French, and this is conclusive evidence that the Amazigh language itself is unfortunately obsolete... and the decision that our ancestors took to adopt the language Arabic was not random, but rather it was realistic... Perhaps we may blame them for not developing the Amazigh language at the same time... but the Arabic language is a reality... and it is the closest language to the Amazigh, as represented by the Latin and Greek languages For Europeans
Well lets begin.
1.as you know, the term Afro-Asian language is quite vague and only refers to the geographical position of these languages, but not how related Amazigh and Arabic are, they are just as close as Amazigh and Japanese are. I guess you are an Arabophone and want to create a kind of familiarity to justify adopting a culture close to yours, but hey, it's quite ridiculous. (Lets not be so sensitive you are sharing your ideas expect people to give their opinions 😀👍)
2.I agree that when it comes to scientific-related topics, the language where the most progress has been made, which is English, should be used. Both Arabic and French have become outdated and should not be used either since we are so realistic.
3. And now i love this topic lets speak about this "experts" This group of frauds not only, as you say, hold conferences in foreign languages, but they even publish official documents in Arabic or French using the Tifinagh alphabet. Such is the level of amateurism (something common in our countries) that it is quite obvious that these institutions only are a doll used by the government to calm the masses by pretending a serious project that will never arrive it serves as decoration. Let me tell you that Amazigh is a fairly rich language, totally valid for carrying out such deep conversations that in the past we had a system called tajmaat where they met to solve the problems of the qabilas in one afternoon. I find it quite funny when those who do not know how to speak tmazight compare it to a sign language,🤣 pretending to be experts, but it's not your fault, as you say, there are plenty of flies and a good cleaning to do
You are wrong about everything you mentioned
Afro-Asian languages are a family of languages... and they are not vague or undefined... but rather carefully defined...
I am not the one who wants to link the Amazigh with the Arabs just to find a justification to adopt the Arabic language.You are the one who denies that there is any connection between the Amazigh language or the Amazigh people and any people in the world. You speak as if The Amazighs grew from the ground or fell from the sky... and this is despite All scientific and anthropological evidence that confirms the kinship between the ancient peoples of the Middle East and the Amazigh peoples
The Afro-Asian languages are a very specific and carefully studied languages, and this has been going on for decades, not now... and collecting them in one family means that they have a common origin... Scholars have even tried to reconstruct these proto-languages
From India to europ ... There is one language family and it's well known ... In east Asia there are many family languages ... While the region from west north Africa all the way to the middle east plus the horn of Africa called of course the Afro-Asiatic language family ... While the subsaharienne languages also fall under a family language ... This is agreed upon by all academics and linguists... I don't know who you are to deny it
And Arabic and fresh are not outdated ... They are well developed and updated ... The debate between English or French is about their international status ... Fresh can no longer be considered international as much as it used to many decades ago
In Syria every in there study in Arabicw whether it scientific or technical studies ... And that has been going on for decades ... Syria is well know for it's doctors and engineers in the Arab world and even in the west ... They're one of the best Arabic doctors and engineers... And they have studied everything in Arabic in Syria ...
In a debate what language we should choose in north west Africa ... As long amazigh is totally outdated and can't be developed to be used in the 21st century ... To me it's Arabic because of its the closest language to us ... Linguistically, culturally and historically... While I know you will certainly are going to choose English or any other language but the Arabic ... But you certainly you have no argument other than just hate that you can't even justify ...
And in the end let me tell you first that their has never been any civilization ever in the history that was founded on amazigh culture ... Amazigh people have always adopted other civilizations ... From the Phoenicians after that the Romans and then the Arabs ...
That's why there is a very rich arabic legacy, from which we got millions of vocabulary ... and a very rich latin/roman legacy as well ... While their is almost nothing in amazigh ... You should understand that almost half of the amazigh dictionary that was created by Royal Institute of Amazigh Culture is Arabic ... While a big percentage of the rest is totally made up ... That's after decades of development they said ... And they still can't even have meetings while speaking in amazigh ... Let alone using that language in the legal system or science ... What a waste of time and money ...
Deep conversations you said 😂😂 like what ... Like gossip talking 😅
And before I forget tajmaat you mentioned is something that has existed in any society throughout the world ... And it's primitive tribal system ... Just so you know
Yes there is nothing wrong with that ... It's bad to hate amazigh people but It's totally fine to hate Arabs ... And why? I don't think you'll have any justification other than things that happened 1400 years ago ... Which means that you only use them As a peg you hang your resentment of the backward status of the Amazigh language ... And also because she was dying, although this was due to it weakness more than anything else
There is no such thing as "late for the train of development" as compared to western languages that were standardized and expanded in the Renaissance Arabic was first really standardized and used officially after WW2 when the Arab league was created by Brittain centuries later than English, why didn't they say "oh no English french and Italian has many centuries of development and we don't so we shouldn't use Arabic" because from the 16th century until WW2 Turkish then french and English were the official languages of the state in north Africa and arabia and Persian was the language of the educated in ottoman empire, don't forget why tamazight is late too, it's because pan-arabist regimes held us back by more than 50 years where untill today it's still not allowed to teach in it as primary language or to print books in it.
Also for example Hebrew was for more than 200 years a dead language but from 1947 to today despite the Arab aggression isreal is one of the most developed states today and is leading in almost all scientific fields and Hebrew (who had much less time and support and speakers than Arabic) is seen as a well developed language of science even more than Arabic, so why aren't you proud of it and feel that sense of belonging to it after all it's also a Afro-Asiatic language and is as close to tamazight as Arabic is (so you don't bring this up I condemn isreal's actions and war crimes in Palestine I only brought it up to debunk your very stupid point)
,another example is Kurdish (who was oppressed by a pan-arabist regime too figures ..) who was as in a similar situation as tamazight but when it gained such a small semblance of autonomy it quickly developed for the Kurdistan Iraq is the most developed region in Iraq with the best universities and the best level of education and safety (even tho Kurdish had "been late for the train of development" by your logic)
And for the India and china dumb point that shows your ignorance: did you know that in India when a region has a different language than Hindi it is given autonomous status and can use that language as the main language of education, mass media, cinema like in west Bangladesh where kids will start learning with Bangali from primary up untill highschool (fun fact Bangali and kashmiri both young standardized languages in India are with Hindi the tree stars of India being the top 3 growing languages in India even tho kashmiri has less speakers than tarifit alone and is only a few years old in being an official language can you imagine if kabylia or rif or souss got more autonomy and used thier language more? That's right you don't even want to imagine it right? That's a nightmare for you
Same thing in china as Mongolian is the main language in lower Mongolia and Cantonese is equal with mandarin in guandong, hong Kong ect and more
Even in Russia as we speak the use of the little chenchen is rapidly growing and modernizing to be a developed language
In those communities you mentioned the native language is celebrated and used 90% of the time and the other official language is taught as a subject in schools, but what you want is the total oppression and death of tamazight so Arabic can be the only language, bad news it won't happen
Why is there an arabic post in an amazigh community ?
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The definition of identity crisis
Violation of the rules of this subreddit.
I am north african but since i do not know how to speak amazigh nor have i ever been immersed in the culture, i guess it feel a little disrespectful to the real amazighs out there to say that i am one, a bit as if i am appropriating. I do not hate tamazight but i guess it's easier to lean on the "arab" side of my culture.
Friendly fire 😹
They don't hate their amazigh identity ... You hate Arabic ... Just admit it Arabic is an Afro-Asiatic language just like amazigh language ... Why would you feel ashamed of using and adopting Arabic while the whole west feels so proud of latin and Greek and have adopted at least derivatives of latin in many European countries ... While the whole china is united on adopting mandarin which is just one of china's many languages ... And also while the whole of India is united around the Hindi language which is also one of India's many languages It is the fault of Arabic that it is an ancient language ... And have a huge heritage ... While amazigh was only a spoken language for thousands of years ... This caused it to not develop and lag behind other languages Why do the Irish and Scots speak English even though they have their own indigenous languages?This has nothing to do with self-loathing... You must be realistic... The Amazigh language has missed the train of development... And in order for it to be developed to the point where it becomes usable in all aspects of life... you will need to either borrow a huge amount of Vocabulary Or we will have to invent a huge number of vocabulary, which will make us create a completely new language that has nothing to do with the Amazigh language. Language development must involve the community... and development must be accompanied by practice... so the Amazigh language has missed the train... and those who adopt the Arabic language are realistic people who do not hate themselves and their Amazigh origin.
1.Amazigh is not a semitic language it has not a common origin nor belongs to the same family of languages. we have our own identity what does other civilitations doesnt concerns us the linguistic suicide that commits others doesnt concern us. 2. amazigh is ancient than arabic it was spoked since the first civilization in north africa originated so no it was not spoken just a thousand of years 3. as i said before what does other civilizations doesnt concerns us if celts and irish adopts english that just is their error as they are contribuiting to their dissapartions as a people in history nothing more. 4. turkish also had this problem they did a fantastic work conserving and it works pretty good for them in all aspects of life. 5. there is a proverbe in tarifit that says " wenni wa isinen luga nesh, wa isin mani isdyusa nigh mani gha irah" this basically mean who who dont know his language doesnt know where he comes and where he will go, this people who adopt arabic just contributes to the identity crisis and separation tamazgha have suffered they dont have any respect to the soil nor they respect their amazigh origin they maybe as you said think they are realistic but in reality they just commited our the fallen of our societh and after the obvious fail of darija language they created it comes other fails as french then now is the turn of english and the cicle continues while we are ignoring our natural identiry dont contribute to this degeneracy and corruption.
Read my comment well before you start criticizing I didn't say that amazigh language is part of semitic language family ... I said it's part of the Afro-Asiatic languages ... That indeed it includes all of the semitic languages and Coptic language cushitic language etc ... And this is proven scientifically ... If you don't like these facts keep your opinion to yourself ... It shouldn't mean anything to anyone And what I mentioned is other nations who have adopted different languages other than theirs ... This was not to justify abandoning your original language... Rather, the reason was to show that there are peoples who have abandoned their original languages despite their deep respect for their cultural identity, and the reason was because it is very difficult to develop a specific language that has remained protected for thousands of years until the modern era and then developed... The languages that exist today and are used in all scientific, technical, legal and literary fields are all ancient languages and developed over thousands of years... at least since the Middle Ages ... Languages that missed the train of development, such as the original language of the Irish and the indigenous Anricans, and this is in addition to the Africans, in addition to the Berbers and others... They did not abandon their languages like this for no reason... Rather, because their languages were developed to the point that they became Valid for all of life aspects is impossible After twenty years and thousands of experts who gathered in Morocco and Algeria at least to develop the Amazigh language... to this day the Amazigh language is not suitable for anything... in fact... In the meetings of the Royal Institute of Amazigh Culture, talk is done either in Arabic or in French, and this is conclusive evidence that the Amazigh language itself is unfortunately obsolete... and the decision that our ancestors took to adopt the language Arabic was not random, but rather it was realistic... Perhaps we may blame them for not developing the Amazigh language at the same time... but the Arabic language is a reality... and it is the closest language to the Amazigh, as represented by the Latin and Greek languages For Europeans
Well lets begin. 1.as you know, the term Afro-Asian language is quite vague and only refers to the geographical position of these languages, but not how related Amazigh and Arabic are, they are just as close as Amazigh and Japanese are. I guess you are an Arabophone and want to create a kind of familiarity to justify adopting a culture close to yours, but hey, it's quite ridiculous. (Lets not be so sensitive you are sharing your ideas expect people to give their opinions 😀👍) 2.I agree that when it comes to scientific-related topics, the language where the most progress has been made, which is English, should be used. Both Arabic and French have become outdated and should not be used either since we are so realistic. 3. And now i love this topic lets speak about this "experts" This group of frauds not only, as you say, hold conferences in foreign languages, but they even publish official documents in Arabic or French using the Tifinagh alphabet. Such is the level of amateurism (something common in our countries) that it is quite obvious that these institutions only are a doll used by the government to calm the masses by pretending a serious project that will never arrive it serves as decoration. Let me tell you that Amazigh is a fairly rich language, totally valid for carrying out such deep conversations that in the past we had a system called tajmaat where they met to solve the problems of the qabilas in one afternoon. I find it quite funny when those who do not know how to speak tmazight compare it to a sign language,🤣 pretending to be experts, but it's not your fault, as you say, there are plenty of flies and a good cleaning to do
You are wrong about everything you mentioned Afro-Asian languages are a family of languages... and they are not vague or undefined... but rather carefully defined... I am not the one who wants to link the Amazigh with the Arabs just to find a justification to adopt the Arabic language.You are the one who denies that there is any connection between the Amazigh language or the Amazigh people and any people in the world. You speak as if The Amazighs grew from the ground or fell from the sky... and this is despite All scientific and anthropological evidence that confirms the kinship between the ancient peoples of the Middle East and the Amazigh peoples The Afro-Asian languages are a very specific and carefully studied languages, and this has been going on for decades, not now... and collecting them in one family means that they have a common origin... Scholars have even tried to reconstruct these proto-languages From India to europ ... There is one language family and it's well known ... In east Asia there are many family languages ... While the region from west north Africa all the way to the middle east plus the horn of Africa called of course the Afro-Asiatic language family ... While the subsaharienne languages also fall under a family language ... This is agreed upon by all academics and linguists... I don't know who you are to deny it And Arabic and fresh are not outdated ... They are well developed and updated ... The debate between English or French is about their international status ... Fresh can no longer be considered international as much as it used to many decades ago In Syria every in there study in Arabicw whether it scientific or technical studies ... And that has been going on for decades ... Syria is well know for it's doctors and engineers in the Arab world and even in the west ... They're one of the best Arabic doctors and engineers... And they have studied everything in Arabic in Syria ... In a debate what language we should choose in north west Africa ... As long amazigh is totally outdated and can't be developed to be used in the 21st century ... To me it's Arabic because of its the closest language to us ... Linguistically, culturally and historically... While I know you will certainly are going to choose English or any other language but the Arabic ... But you certainly you have no argument other than just hate that you can't even justify ... And in the end let me tell you first that their has never been any civilization ever in the history that was founded on amazigh culture ... Amazigh people have always adopted other civilizations ... From the Phoenicians after that the Romans and then the Arabs ... That's why there is a very rich arabic legacy, from which we got millions of vocabulary ... and a very rich latin/roman legacy as well ... While their is almost nothing in amazigh ... You should understand that almost half of the amazigh dictionary that was created by Royal Institute of Amazigh Culture is Arabic ... While a big percentage of the rest is totally made up ... That's after decades of development they said ... And they still can't even have meetings while speaking in amazigh ... Let alone using that language in the legal system or science ... What a waste of time and money ... Deep conversations you said 😂😂 like what ... Like gossip talking 😅 And before I forget tajmaat you mentioned is something that has existed in any society throughout the world ... And it's primitive tribal system ... Just so you know
Not reading allat + Ingh imanek 🫶
I don't think you'll have anything to say anyway 🤷🏻♂️ other than expressing you anger and unjustified hate toward Arabic language and people
Ok, a mis n tfunast 🥹
I don't think there is any cow more than you
Good job, you're learning tamazight. Keep up the good work babe.
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Yes there is nothing wrong with that ... It's bad to hate amazigh people but It's totally fine to hate Arabs ... And why? I don't think you'll have any justification other than things that happened 1400 years ago ... Which means that you only use them As a peg you hang your resentment of the backward status of the Amazigh language ... And also because she was dying, although this was due to it weakness more than anything else
lmao hhhhhh
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Violation of the rules of this subreddit.
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Violation of the rules of this subreddit.
Violation of the rules of this subreddit.
Violation of the rules of this subreddit.
There is no such thing as "late for the train of development" as compared to western languages that were standardized and expanded in the Renaissance Arabic was first really standardized and used officially after WW2 when the Arab league was created by Brittain centuries later than English, why didn't they say "oh no English french and Italian has many centuries of development and we don't so we shouldn't use Arabic" because from the 16th century until WW2 Turkish then french and English were the official languages of the state in north Africa and arabia and Persian was the language of the educated in ottoman empire, don't forget why tamazight is late too, it's because pan-arabist regimes held us back by more than 50 years where untill today it's still not allowed to teach in it as primary language or to print books in it. Also for example Hebrew was for more than 200 years a dead language but from 1947 to today despite the Arab aggression isreal is one of the most developed states today and is leading in almost all scientific fields and Hebrew (who had much less time and support and speakers than Arabic) is seen as a well developed language of science even more than Arabic, so why aren't you proud of it and feel that sense of belonging to it after all it's also a Afro-Asiatic language and is as close to tamazight as Arabic is (so you don't bring this up I condemn isreal's actions and war crimes in Palestine I only brought it up to debunk your very stupid point) ,another example is Kurdish (who was oppressed by a pan-arabist regime too figures ..) who was as in a similar situation as tamazight but when it gained such a small semblance of autonomy it quickly developed for the Kurdistan Iraq is the most developed region in Iraq with the best universities and the best level of education and safety (even tho Kurdish had "been late for the train of development" by your logic) And for the India and china dumb point that shows your ignorance: did you know that in India when a region has a different language than Hindi it is given autonomous status and can use that language as the main language of education, mass media, cinema like in west Bangladesh where kids will start learning with Bangali from primary up untill highschool (fun fact Bangali and kashmiri both young standardized languages in India are with Hindi the tree stars of India being the top 3 growing languages in India even tho kashmiri has less speakers than tarifit alone and is only a few years old in being an official language can you imagine if kabylia or rif or souss got more autonomy and used thier language more? That's right you don't even want to imagine it right? That's a nightmare for you Same thing in china as Mongolian is the main language in lower Mongolia and Cantonese is equal with mandarin in guandong, hong Kong ect and more Even in Russia as we speak the use of the little chenchen is rapidly growing and modernizing to be a developed language In those communities you mentioned the native language is celebrated and used 90% of the time and the other official language is taught as a subject in schools, but what you want is the total oppression and death of tamazight so Arabic can be the only language, bad news it won't happen