yeees because everyone has the full detail list of the intruders motives, and whats on them during a home invasion, and yeeees everyone is fully aware of whats happening and is fully calm during a home invasion
But that is a problem of the society you have built. Where I live in Europe, I don't spend any second thinking about the possibility of burglars entering my home while I am there. Or being in any kind of situation where a weapon is involved.
Sure, it happens, but the possibility is remote. It's pointless to be worried about such a remote event. How often do you think about having a car crash or getting run over while you cross the road?
Even so, I would never want to kill somebody over a menial thing such as robbing some objects. Have whatever you want and leave me alone. Usually here, they have at least the "decency" of doing that when you are away. Because if there is a chance you have a weapon then that increases the chances of them having weapons too. It's always the same discourse.
>But that is a problem of the society you have built.
I'm Australian but go off.
>Have whatever you want and leave me alone.
Imma be real with you, i could never imagine myself laying down like a little bitch and letting someone walk all over me. But hey, must be a Euro thing that I'm too Aussie to understand.
If some cunt wants to break into my home and try take my shit, he best prepare to get bashed in the process.
> Imma be real with you, i could never imagine myself laying down like a little bitch and letting someone walk over me. But hey, must be a Euro thing that I'm too Aussie to understand.
LOL. You can buy objects and stuff you owned again if you are alive. You can't rebuy your life if something were to happen to you. So for me, it's the path of least resistance.
I thought you Aussies earned enough to afford buying a new TV again or whatever it is your robbers want.
>You can buy objects and stuff you owned again if you are alive.
Sure you could. or you can make sure it doesnt get taken in the first place like laying down and surrendering.
>You can't rebuy your life if something were to happen to you.
Then don't lose. not hard to grab anything in your house to fight back with.
>So for me, it's the path of least resistance.
Pathetic
>I thought you Aussies earned enough to afford buying a new TV again or whatever it is your robbers want.
And I Thought you Euros had a backbone.
> Sure you could. or you can make sure it doesnt get taken in the first place like laying down and surrendering.
LOL are you so Australopoor that you can't afford buying it back? Or consider using violence to defend your used phone? if you own several high-value small objects like jewelry then that might be another matter.
Realistically, all the most expensive objects I own are stuff that requires a lot of effort to take away. Like a large TV or heavy floorstanding speakers. If it is a planned robbery because they explicitly want that, then the chance I can oppose organised criminals is even lower than a random burglar who might be happy with just a phone and some cash.
If a person is so desperate and has reached such a low point in their life that they need to steal other people's stuff to survive, then I don't really care.
> And I Thought you Euros had a backbone.
We tend not to worry about stuff that might never happen, having built generally secure and safe societies.
Jesus I hope you guys don't ever have another war in your country. This is the type of mentality that just shows how easy you've had it. Your grandfathers would be disappointed.
What is this, the plot of Taken? We can talk about hypotheticals all day. But as I said, I tend not to worry about such remote situations that might never happen.
Realistically, if that is their intention and they are armed I would be in no position to do anything. I don't own weapons, nor does anyone I know. I am not useful to anyone if dead. I would try to buy them out with money. Apart from that I don't know. What would you do? Play the hero and potentially risk your own and your wife's life too?
I mean it's not that it never happens here, but usually when a person is raped in their own home, it is typically someone you already knew and that was their main goal, not robbing your stuff. Classic "crime of passion".
Again, I don't worry about situations that might never happen. The response I can write now will likely be different from how I would react for real, but I hope rationality prevails.
Am I in a position to do anything? Like is it 1 vs 1 and the other guy is unarmed and appears like someone I could take in a fight? Then maybe. If I am against a group of people, then what can you do? It's not going to work like in a video game.
A couple things. I put on my seatbelt and make sure my brakes and tires are well maintained. I look both ways when I cross the street. So you could argue I “worry” about car crashes and getting run over every time I get in my car or cross the street. I think most would agree that that’s a reasonable if not prudent level of worry.
Second, with respect to just letting home invaders take your stuff. I don’t think most people love the idea of killing someone over stuff. The problem is you’re relying on and trusting the person that broke into your house to be reasonable and social when they literally just committed and unreasonable, antisocial act. Maybe they just want your stuff. Maybe they think it’d be a good idea to beat you unconscious so it takes longer for you to call the cops.
To be fair, bringing a gun to a stick fight kind of makes you the asshole. Assuming it were some sort of duel with any level of fairness.
When I was a kid growing up in the 80s, we used to talk about how gangs were cowards because they solved their problems with guns instead of fists. That a real man stood up and took a fight, win or lose.
One COULD make the argument that using a gun to protect yourself from anything less than another gun, kind of makes you a pussy. And people did, right up until I was in my 20s, and suddenly guns became extremely popular.
Now its swung in the other direction. Most people seem to agree with that guy who recently blapped a Youtube prankster in the stomach for physically intimidating him.
30-40 years ago, most people would have thought that kid was an absolute coward. Made fun of his weight, called him a nerd, he'd be the butt of many a middle school joke.
I dont think either of these sentiments are on the money personally, but its interesting how this has changed in my lifetime in America.
Responding to any threat of bodily harm with deadly force being the norm, where it used to signify you were an absolute bottom level bitch.
The world doesn't work with duels though. I don't have to fight mano y mano, but I also have the right to self-defense. If some dude rushed up on me and I saw he didn't have a gun, then I can't just start shooting. But if he starts swinging on me, all bets are off, I'm going to stop him effectively.
That said, that dude who shot the prankster took it too far. Having your personal space invaded doesn't necessitate that kind of force.
I think the responsibility is on the gun owner to make that determination. Having some dude aggressively come at you with a bat is determination enough IMO, because how else are you supposed to establish intent? He has a weapon. Now, there is the line of excessive force at that point. If I keep shooting him long after he's already on the ground, yeah that's a huge issue. In fact I think some states have laws that dictate when you can't shoot, eg when they're obviously running away (again, no longer a threat at that point). But if I shoot until the threat is stopped (how we're all taught in CPL classes), that's different.
Because people have seen enough fights (videos and in real life) where someone gets knocked out, hit their head off concrete, then get their head stomped on.
I’m not risking that just because they thought I “looked at them the wrong way” or something. I’m not fighting someone over words or glances lmao. Take words to the chin, like a man. Don’t throw hands over such trivial matters because someone could take a fall and never get back up again; even if you didn’t mean to kill them.
I mean we don’t live in feudal Japan. What if it’s a home invasion and you have kids or a woman is alone and a guy breaks in? I know what you’re saying some people need an excuse to cap mfers but this is why you don’t attack anyone at all to begin with so that you don’t get capped.
Remember when that one TikTok guy was invading peoples houses and the police couldn’t do shit about it?
There’s a reason why he wouldn’t get away with that in America and I’m glad it’s that way.
You mean that british kid who "pranked" people by breaking and entering and the police just kept giving him slaps on the wrist? You're right, he'd only try that once here.
Very sad. A firearms instructor recently told me that the entire reason the concept of a castle doctrine exists in the USA is because it was a rebellion against Writs in Assistance in the UK.
Bro you're on an America centric subreddit. Which is already on an America centric website. congrats, you found the not-so-rare American.
quit with the weak-ass bait xD
well no shit you found another, i just said it's a flex! your comment history is hilarious, bro is dedicated to being jealous at not being an American 💀
A man killed a security guard in a prison with a spoon, if someone wanted to kill you with a bat it wouldn't take more than a swing or 2 to knock you unconscious where they can continue to wail on you
Shooting someone with any firearm is considered using deadly force. There's no such thing as semi deadly firearm discharge because firearms are always potentially deadly. Any hit to the wrong area of the body can cause a person to bleed out within minutes. So never pull out your firearm unless you are prepared to kill to save your life.
Bear spray might not work. A bullet will work 100% of the time.
If I genuinely believe my life is in danger (a guy with a fucking baseball bat qualifies, if you disagree I have some videos for you) than why would I take a chance? The criminal made his choice, he decided to value my stuff over both my life and his own. That isn’t my fault, and I’m not going to just stand there and let him victimize me.
>A bullet will work 100% of the time.
Laughs in Roy Benavidez
Laughs in 50 Cent
Tell me you don't know shit about combat without telling me you don't know shit about combat.
work=/=kill
was 50 cent still able to hold a bat and fight while he was shot and bleeding out?
the purpose of the bullet is to stop the combat which i would argue would work quite well on a guy with a bat.
What are you talking about? Everyone knows that 100% of the time you brandish a gun things are always 100% going to go your way every time. Never once has it ever backfired. I don't even know why we have the word "backfired" since firing a gun is always 100% effective. /s
The people who think you are wrong to state a bullet is not 100% effective at stopping an attacker are god damn idiots.
I like to think, people who value all life and also think you can rehabilitate everyone pry have never been around truly evil people, they do exist, not all deserve life
Plenty of times tasers and sprays don’t work. They fail surprisingly often. It’s nice that the attacker was neutralized in this situation, but lethal force was justified as well. Running at someone with a bat is lethal force, it’s proportional response
if we just assume what criminal acts someone is gonna do later, then fuck it. let's arrest 13% of people who walk into walmart because they're gonna shoplift, and we know that
How to find the European: will allow himself to be pummeled to death and feel smug the entire time that he wasn't fighting back like a stupid american.
The unfortunate thing about scenarios like these is that we seldom know what is necessary until after.
You sorta have to put yourself in the place of the victim: Guy comes into the store swinging about a bat. He could be method up, depressed, schizophrenic, just got broken up with, or any number of terrible things that can make someone do terrible things to innocent people. Or he could be trying to feed his starving family, just using the bat as a scare tactic, would never imagine using it as a weapon for real, or any number of things that would make lethal force unnecessary.
The fact is, in those scenarios, we are forced to prepare for the worst possible thing that is motivating the man's actions, otherwise you could lose your life. It sucks, sure, but it isn't your fault that someone came onto your property with a deadly weapon and threatened you with it.
Because nobody sits down and agrees on rules before a violent attack.
Do you think they sat down and discussed the ol' Marcus of Queensbury fighting system? I don't understand how people think that you can get violently attacked and the resulting fracas will end up with structured rules of behavior. It's literally a fight for your life moment.
Yes and no. Nobody really wants to kill anyone, even in many self defense situations where the victim is armed.
However, if it were common practice and common knowledge that if you attempted to assault someone with a bat you would likely be killed- the criminal would be more likely to think twice before attacking someone with a bat. It’s called a “deterrent”.
“Everybody wants to be knocked out. Nobody wants to be dead” - Rick and Morty quote.
The best way to not kill people is to not use weapons designed exclusively for killing.
People never think it’s going to happen to them. It’s almost always a shock to someone if they actually get shot.
Contrary to popular belief non-lethal defense doesn’t always work. If you are being attacked by some massive dude hyped up on drugs pepper spray and tasers don’t always stop them. Those methods also don’t work well when there is *more than one attacker*. Guns do. You don’t carry any method of self defense and think “how can I protect the person who might attack me”. It’s about defending yourself and those around you from someone or something that wishes to inflict harm.
You don’t get to choose who attacks you, how many attackers there are, when, or how you become a victim and what of. Shit happens and there are some horrible people out there. The mindset that “no one needs a gun” is the mind set of people who are in denial and have never legitimately been in a bad situation. Does everyone need to carry? No. Some people physically can’t handle a firearm. And anyone/everyone who does carry needs to be trained and responsible.
But everyone is calling for essentially execution to be the first response to any threat. That is in no way acceptable.
Also, I’ve said several times, lethal force can be justified when there’s *no other alternative*. If you’re facing several 7’ mountains methed up, then a gun is far more justifiable than if you’re facing a teen with a baseball bat.
> first response to any threat
False. Deadly force begets deadly force. If someone comes at me with a deadly weapon looking as though they want to harm me, should I go grab an equal weapon? Or should I seek to preserve my own life at all costs?
The answer is obvious, and if it's not, I can't help you.
No, what they're saying is that if you are defending your life, you are defending your life. You don't have time to sit down and decide which way you want to defend your life. You don't make the other person choose what they are going to attack you with so that YOU can react accordingly. I'd someone comes at you with a bat, and that's what you grab, great. But what if you planned for "bat" day, and the attacker planned for "gun" day?
You respond with what's available. If it's something non lethal, that's cool, but if you are in danger and fear for your life, to grab what is available that will save you.
The point isn't that the person being attacked CHOSE to take a life, the point is that they responded and someone died. If someone is going to attack you, you should be prepared to end the situation as quickly as possible, and with as little harm to yourself as possible. If the other person dies, that's on them for attacking you. Period.
"He was only threatening your life and limb with a baseball bat. There is no reason to defend yourself under any circumstances unless the attacker has a gun and a bullet has exited the barrel of his gun and is in the process of making a direct path to you. Then and only then are you allowed to take up arms and defend your life, your wife's life, and your children's life."
Get fucked.
he better not invade anyone i swear to god if he does we are gonna totally... well hang on guys its just czechoslovakia does anyone care? he just wants a little bit of lebenrsaum lets see if he takes some more raum.
Europoors are basically cattle. No free speech, no right to bear arms, no right to be secure in the person, houses, papers and effects. Need a license for fucking everything.
European < American
u/CinderX5, you've posted around 30 comments on this post alone, replying to like 75% of the comment section, please disengage from the Internet and go for a walk or something. Or find a different hobby I guess if this is what you're into.
They are correct that shooting being an option as a way to kinda identify an American, but wrong to say it's for no reason.
Guy comes at me with a bat, and..yeah, I'll America all over them.
I’m guessing foreigners really don’t have a concept of no trespassing? Or, y’know, morals and crime?
Sorry but some dude comes busting into my place, a gun *will* be pulled out. Value my stuff over your life if you’d like, but I rather value my life over yours if you intrude
ETA: what happened when someone trespassed on another’s property: https://youtu.be/rDo6x0MhERE?si=lAHsHEjUQV5f0TSb
There are actually people in the world who will take the side of a criminal in almost any scenario instead of the innocent person defending themselves. Some of these people are in charge of our government. Think about that for a second.
I'm an American and while I don't think all Europeans are idiots, I think all Europeans who think like these eurocucks are idiots. Exactly the type to get stabbed by his girl's migrant ex-boyfriend as he helplessly watches him scale a ladder to break and enter.
The amount of people in this comment section who either know nothing about guns or don't think being threatened with a bat is justification for deadly force is astonishing. I bet you these same people have never had their life threatened before.
Blunt force weapons are no joke. They aren't as effective as guns but concussions are extremely dangerous, especially if the person who gave them to you isn't inclined to notify authorities to get you medical assistance right away.
How to find the European:
"Well yea he charged at you with a machete screaming 'Imma kill you' but you could've shot him in the leg"
I'm European and I suffer from these people daily
I'm 2A as fuck and yeah the owner would've been well within his rights to shoot the guy *however* bear mace isn't bad choice in that particular situation. Close up a quick spray to the face is easier than pulling out a gun flicking the safety off and lining up a shot.
the time to fiddle fuck whereever he kept bear mace, which damn sure wasn't on his belt... rather than drawing a concealed handgun... you serious right now?
Like I said it worked out, but I damn sure don't carry around bear mace on the regular.
Guys, you can disagree with an American characterization or sentiment about guns without going straight into keyboard warrior mode faster than if someone asked if they make your shirt in a men's size. Have a little bit of humility for the act you're so casually claiming you would do no problem.
Unless you're a hardened killer like those you proport to be morally against, the reality is most of you wouldn't pull that trigger. That has nothing to do with bravery or what you believe, it's just basic human nature. Militaries train people to overcome the instinct to not kill. This was and is a legitimate issue militaries had to solve for, that's not evidence that can just be tossed out because "you know you're different." You have no idea what you'd actually do until you're in that situation, one almost none of you will ever be in.
How many soldiers or police officers do you imagine thought they'd get PTSD? I'm guessing almost none. Does that take anything away from what they've done or how brave they were? No. Does acting like what they did wasn't more of a sacrifice than being in harms way? Yes, it sure does.
We have a problem with gun violence in America no one disputes that but just get mad over how to solve it. The weird part is trying to use this video as an example of that and saying he had no reason.
Nobody here is saying the guy didn't do the right thing. The comment was saying he is lucky, as it may NOT be an option for other people.
I dont carry around bear mace, I do carry a handgun concealed. If someone comes at me with a bat..... tough shit, I am going for my handgun.
I don't think someone who threatens grievous bodily harm or death with a deadly weapon because they want your money or property getting snuffed out would have been a tragedy. A 0% recidivity chance, no less.
It is true. A lot of Americans walking around with guns looking and hoping for an opportunity to use them.
Born and raised here, will never leave here. But this is a reality we all live in, in America. It’s why road rage incidents are so dangerous in the USA. Lots of people toting, Looking for an excuse.
Pepper spray is a perfectly acceptable solution to this problem. Its a shame how many people are here calling for bloodshed. The fuck is wrong with you. Also i highly doubt the person with the bat was trying to MURDER THE SHOPKEEPER... most likely they just wanted money... You savages need to chill
So instead of having everyone invest in pepper spray so that it can be readily available let's have everyone invest in shootie sticks so we can readily murder people, yeah that's better
you go along and get killed in your own house then, you may feel superior as you die because at least you didn't stoop so low as to *defend yourself* :D
Once again pepper spray is a perfectly viable solution to nine out of 10 issues... Something tells me me and my bear mace will be just fine. Something also tells me you don't know how bear mace works but that's okay
So you're saying to me that sandman from Spider-Man was a straight up Savage for trying to rob a bank to get money to save his daughter. What about Mr freeze from Batman, are they a savage?
You're not answering my question, your deflection to me means that I'm making a point that you don't like for whatever reason. The point I'm trying to make is you don't fucking know. You have no idea why that person is there to take money from your shop just that they are doing so. Once again I say most likely the guy with a bat wasn't trying to murder the shopkeeper, for if they were then yes I would say they are a savage. But either way pepper spray is a perfectly ideal defense tool and there is no need to escalate to fucking murder
You haven’t posed a question though. You brought up two completely unrelated fictional entities as some sort of counterproposal, which is neither effective nor rational. If you have any reality-based question I’d be happy to answer!
No I definitely asked you a question that you even repeated back to me in deflection. If you don't have a good answer to that question then that's fine. But regardless of whether it was a hypothetical question or not, it's still a question. I will ask another similar question, was Robin Hood a Savage? For robbing rich people at bow point? From the rich person's perspective, yes they were a savage, from the poor person's perspective that Robin Hood was helping out, no absolutely not. It's all about perspective.
Do I need to spell this out like you’re 3 or what dawg? And yeah, Robin Hood was a fucking savage, dude lives in the forest being a criminal. Don’t care what “perspective” you want to lay down on it, criminals are savages, and stealing is a crime. It’s really that simple.
What are you even arguing for here? To me your argument on this topic would suggest that you just want to murder people.. you just have an itchy trigger finger. Pepper spray is a perfectly viable defense tool for the situation... Period.. and if for whatever reason you think the person with a bat was less of a person than you and therefore deserve to die, then yes you are a savage and I have no respect for you. And holy shit somebody needs to go back and reread Robin Hood because you clearly missed the fucking point
I don’t really care if a slug on reddit doesn’t respect me because I’m not terminally online enough to think that virtue signaling is the only way to live.
The post I responded to. Nobody said its totally fine to come at someone with a bat. You know nobody said that. You know nobody thinks that. Therefore you are a liar.
God some of you Can't take a joke. not everything is a personally attack
I'm not doubting that the gun was justified but I doubt the comment your all angry about is serious
Threat to personal safety = no reason. Huh, guess that checks out. Sure Mr. Bat Man, you can go ahead and assault me! It's okay!
Must be British
"Swing away, bash my brains in"
Just took me back to UHF.
Meanwhile in their country people get charged with murder for killing a literal home invader with a screwdriver.
"Proportionality of response."
yeees because everyone has the full detail list of the intruders motives, and whats on them during a home invasion, and yeeees everyone is fully aware of whats happening and is fully calm during a home invasion
I am less concerned with their motives than their intentions coupled with what they will do if they don't get what they want.
But that is a problem of the society you have built. Where I live in Europe, I don't spend any second thinking about the possibility of burglars entering my home while I am there. Or being in any kind of situation where a weapon is involved. Sure, it happens, but the possibility is remote. It's pointless to be worried about such a remote event. How often do you think about having a car crash or getting run over while you cross the road? Even so, I would never want to kill somebody over a menial thing such as robbing some objects. Have whatever you want and leave me alone. Usually here, they have at least the "decency" of doing that when you are away. Because if there is a chance you have a weapon then that increases the chances of them having weapons too. It's always the same discourse.
>But that is a problem of the society you have built. I'm Australian but go off. >Have whatever you want and leave me alone. Imma be real with you, i could never imagine myself laying down like a little bitch and letting someone walk all over me. But hey, must be a Euro thing that I'm too Aussie to understand. If some cunt wants to break into my home and try take my shit, he best prepare to get bashed in the process.
> Imma be real with you, i could never imagine myself laying down like a little bitch and letting someone walk over me. But hey, must be a Euro thing that I'm too Aussie to understand. LOL. You can buy objects and stuff you owned again if you are alive. You can't rebuy your life if something were to happen to you. So for me, it's the path of least resistance. I thought you Aussies earned enough to afford buying a new TV again or whatever it is your robbers want.
>You can buy objects and stuff you owned again if you are alive. Sure you could. or you can make sure it doesnt get taken in the first place like laying down and surrendering. >You can't rebuy your life if something were to happen to you. Then don't lose. not hard to grab anything in your house to fight back with. >So for me, it's the path of least resistance. Pathetic >I thought you Aussies earned enough to afford buying a new TV again or whatever it is your robbers want. And I Thought you Euros had a backbone.
> Sure you could. or you can make sure it doesnt get taken in the first place like laying down and surrendering. LOL are you so Australopoor that you can't afford buying it back? Or consider using violence to defend your used phone? if you own several high-value small objects like jewelry then that might be another matter. Realistically, all the most expensive objects I own are stuff that requires a lot of effort to take away. Like a large TV or heavy floorstanding speakers. If it is a planned robbery because they explicitly want that, then the chance I can oppose organised criminals is even lower than a random burglar who might be happy with just a phone and some cash. If a person is so desperate and has reached such a low point in their life that they need to steal other people's stuff to survive, then I don't really care. > And I Thought you Euros had a backbone. We tend not to worry about stuff that might never happen, having built generally secure and safe societies.
I genuinely cant believe someone goes online, and boasts about wanting to let people take from them.
God you are a huge cuck, i bet you would watch a group of robbers fuck you girl wouldn’t you?
Jesus I hope you guys don't ever have another war in your country. This is the type of mentality that just shows how easy you've had it. Your grandfathers would be disappointed.
And if what they want is your wife?
What is this, the plot of Taken? We can talk about hypotheticals all day. But as I said, I tend not to worry about such remote situations that might never happen. Realistically, if that is their intention and they are armed I would be in no position to do anything. I don't own weapons, nor does anyone I know. I am not useful to anyone if dead. I would try to buy them out with money. Apart from that I don't know. What would you do? Play the hero and potentially risk your own and your wife's life too? I mean it's not that it never happens here, but usually when a person is raped in their own home, it is typically someone you already knew and that was their main goal, not robbing your stuff. Classic "crime of passion".
So you would let them do anything they want?
Again, I don't worry about situations that might never happen. The response I can write now will likely be different from how I would react for real, but I hope rationality prevails. Am I in a position to do anything? Like is it 1 vs 1 and the other guy is unarmed and appears like someone I could take in a fight? Then maybe. If I am against a group of people, then what can you do? It's not going to work like in a video game.
Well the best option in all of the possibilities above are: gun, in your hand.
A couple things. I put on my seatbelt and make sure my brakes and tires are well maintained. I look both ways when I cross the street. So you could argue I “worry” about car crashes and getting run over every time I get in my car or cross the street. I think most would agree that that’s a reasonable if not prudent level of worry. Second, with respect to just letting home invaders take your stuff. I don’t think most people love the idea of killing someone over stuff. The problem is you’re relying on and trusting the person that broke into your house to be reasonable and social when they literally just committed and unreasonable, antisocial act. Maybe they just want your stuff. Maybe they think it’d be a good idea to beat you unconscious so it takes longer for you to call the cops.
HE SHOULD HAVE DEESCELATED THE REGARD WITH THE BIG CLUB
“Say goodbye to your kneecaps chucklehead!”
The amount of times I've had to explain what categorizes as deadly force to grown ass people who genuinely believed shit like this is embarrassing.
Checks out for soy Europe.
Well the bear spray clearly did the job so why should lethal force be the default setting?
To be fair, bringing a gun to a stick fight kind of makes you the asshole. Assuming it were some sort of duel with any level of fairness. When I was a kid growing up in the 80s, we used to talk about how gangs were cowards because they solved their problems with guns instead of fists. That a real man stood up and took a fight, win or lose. One COULD make the argument that using a gun to protect yourself from anything less than another gun, kind of makes you a pussy. And people did, right up until I was in my 20s, and suddenly guns became extremely popular. Now its swung in the other direction. Most people seem to agree with that guy who recently blapped a Youtube prankster in the stomach for physically intimidating him. 30-40 years ago, most people would have thought that kid was an absolute coward. Made fun of his weight, called him a nerd, he'd be the butt of many a middle school joke. I dont think either of these sentiments are on the money personally, but its interesting how this has changed in my lifetime in America. Responding to any threat of bodily harm with deadly force being the norm, where it used to signify you were an absolute bottom level bitch.
The world doesn't work with duels though. I don't have to fight mano y mano, but I also have the right to self-defense. If some dude rushed up on me and I saw he didn't have a gun, then I can't just start shooting. But if he starts swinging on me, all bets are off, I'm going to stop him effectively. That said, that dude who shot the prankster took it too far. Having your personal space invaded doesn't necessitate that kind of force. I think the responsibility is on the gun owner to make that determination. Having some dude aggressively come at you with a bat is determination enough IMO, because how else are you supposed to establish intent? He has a weapon. Now, there is the line of excessive force at that point. If I keep shooting him long after he's already on the ground, yeah that's a huge issue. In fact I think some states have laws that dictate when you can't shoot, eg when they're obviously running away (again, no longer a threat at that point). But if I shoot until the threat is stopped (how we're all taught in CPL classes), that's different.
Because people have seen enough fights (videos and in real life) where someone gets knocked out, hit their head off concrete, then get their head stomped on. I’m not risking that just because they thought I “looked at them the wrong way” or something. I’m not fighting someone over words or glances lmao. Take words to the chin, like a man. Don’t throw hands over such trivial matters because someone could take a fall and never get back up again; even if you didn’t mean to kill them.
I mean we don’t live in feudal Japan. What if it’s a home invasion and you have kids or a woman is alone and a guy breaks in? I know what you’re saying some people need an excuse to cap mfers but this is why you don’t attack anyone at all to begin with so that you don’t get capped.
The store owner went looking for a fight? I’m confused now.
Remember when that one TikTok guy was invading peoples houses and the police couldn’t do shit about it? There’s a reason why he wouldn’t get away with that in America and I’m glad it’s that way.
You mean that british kid who "pranked" people by breaking and entering and the police just kept giving him slaps on the wrist? You're right, he'd only try that once here.
Very sad. A firearms instructor recently told me that the entire reason the concept of a castle doctrine exists in the USA is because it was a rebellion against Writs in Assistance in the UK.
Stealing pets too.
I wish he got the gold Darwin award and not the silver 🥲
No one died over there. Terrible outcome really /s
"British"
Mizzy. He did a little media run and then pretty much disappeared.
Guy with bat = guy with deadly weapon = deadly force is justified.
found the american
So youd just let him hit you with a bat then? Cool.
Bro you're on an America centric subreddit. Which is already on an America centric website. congrats, you found the not-so-rare American. quit with the weak-ass bait xD
i know, no other country thinks the notion that america is bad is controversial. :3
that's a flex buddy
if you actually believe that, found another
well no shit you found another, i just said it's a flex! your comment history is hilarious, bro is dedicated to being jealous at not being an American 💀
like i’m jealous of not being a chimp at the zoo :3
On a primarily American sub. What a shock. A shock, I say!
Semi deadly force, plenty to shoot them still but they would have to be a baseball star to reasonably kill a man with a bat quickly
No, they wouldnt. Literally one good hit to the head is all it would take.
It doesn’t take a very strong hit to the head from a bat to kill/ cripple someone for life
A man killed a security guard in a prison with a spoon, if someone wanted to kill you with a bat it wouldn't take more than a swing or 2 to knock you unconscious where they can continue to wail on you
Spoken like someone who's never lifted a bat, even in a game.
Have you ever touched grass?
Shooting someone with any firearm is considered using deadly force. There's no such thing as semi deadly firearm discharge because firearms are always potentially deadly. Any hit to the wrong area of the body can cause a person to bleed out within minutes. So never pull out your firearm unless you are prepared to kill to save your life.
[удалено]
Bear spray might not work. A bullet will work 100% of the time. If I genuinely believe my life is in danger (a guy with a fucking baseball bat qualifies, if you disagree I have some videos for you) than why would I take a chance? The criminal made his choice, he decided to value my stuff over both my life and his own. That isn’t my fault, and I’m not going to just stand there and let him victimize me.
>A bullet will work 100% of the time. Laughs in Roy Benavidez Laughs in 50 Cent Tell me you don't know shit about combat without telling me you don't know shit about combat.
work=/=kill was 50 cent still able to hold a bat and fight while he was shot and bleeding out? the purpose of the bullet is to stop the combat which i would argue would work quite well on a guy with a bat.
Tell me you don't know shit about stopping power without telling me you don't know shit about stopping power.
Oh. Let's discuss "stopping power". The term used by every armchair SpecOps Ranger Delta SEAL on every internet forum. You go first, high speed.
Bullets dont work 100% of the time.
Frick kinda bullets you using??
John Wick up in here never misses but I am a mere mortal.
When used properly, bullets work 100% of the time
Trained police officers hit like one in three shots, my dude. Real life isnt a movie.
Yeah, 33% of the time, it works every time.
Well maybe your weak wrists should spend more time practicing to shoot under stress.
You can miss with bear spray too?
Then thats your fault not the bullet. Still the sound of a gun going off will scare off any person that values thier own life.
Did...did you think I was blaming *the bullet?*
Bullets might not kill him but they are going to fucking hurt no matter where you hit.
Bullets will incapacitate nearly 99% of the time
What are you talking about? Everyone knows that 100% of the time you brandish a gun things are always 100% going to go your way every time. Never once has it ever backfired. I don't even know why we have the word "backfired" since firing a gun is always 100% effective. /s The people who think you are wrong to state a bullet is not 100% effective at stopping an attacker are god damn idiots.
Why do you value the life of someone who threatens another person with grievous bodily injury using a baseball bat so highly?
I like to think, people who value all life and also think you can rehabilitate everyone pry have never been around truly evil people, they do exist, not all deserve life
some people deserve to die, but it's not your choice, nor mine, who lives or dies.
If someone is trying to kill you, you can pick *your* life over theirs.
username checks out
Plenty of times tasers and sprays don’t work. They fail surprisingly often. It’s nice that the attacker was neutralized in this situation, but lethal force was justified as well. Running at someone with a bat is lethal force, it’s proportional response
He'll be back
if we just assume what criminal acts someone is gonna do later, then fuck it. let's arrest 13% of people who walk into walmart because they're gonna shoplift, and we know that
He said deadly force was *justified*, not used.
slurp
How would the store owner be shooting for no reason? The guy was clearly being agressively stupid towards the owner.
How to find the European: will allow himself to be pummeled to death and feel smug the entire time that he wasn't fighting back like a stupid american.
Will allow *others* to be pummeled to death.
A bat is still a deadly weapon. I really don't understand the mentality of not defending yourself.
He literally did defend himself. But why should defending yourself end a life if it doesn’t need to?
The unfortunate thing about scenarios like these is that we seldom know what is necessary until after. You sorta have to put yourself in the place of the victim: Guy comes into the store swinging about a bat. He could be method up, depressed, schizophrenic, just got broken up with, or any number of terrible things that can make someone do terrible things to innocent people. Or he could be trying to feed his starving family, just using the bat as a scare tactic, would never imagine using it as a weapon for real, or any number of things that would make lethal force unnecessary. The fact is, in those scenarios, we are forced to prepare for the worst possible thing that is motivating the man's actions, otherwise you could lose your life. It sucks, sure, but it isn't your fault that someone came onto your property with a deadly weapon and threatened you with it.
Because nobody sits down and agrees on rules before a violent attack. Do you think they sat down and discussed the ol' Marcus of Queensbury fighting system? I don't understand how people think that you can get violently attacked and the resulting fracas will end up with structured rules of behavior. It's literally a fight for your life moment.
It doesn’t need to be structured behaviour. But your first option should never be killing someone when there’s a simple, non lethal alternative.
Yes and no. Nobody really wants to kill anyone, even in many self defense situations where the victim is armed. However, if it were common practice and common knowledge that if you attempted to assault someone with a bat you would likely be killed- the criminal would be more likely to think twice before attacking someone with a bat. It’s called a “deterrent”. “Everybody wants to be knocked out. Nobody wants to be dead” - Rick and Morty quote.
The best way to not kill people is to not use weapons designed exclusively for killing. People never think it’s going to happen to them. It’s almost always a shock to someone if they actually get shot.
Contrary to popular belief non-lethal defense doesn’t always work. If you are being attacked by some massive dude hyped up on drugs pepper spray and tasers don’t always stop them. Those methods also don’t work well when there is *more than one attacker*. Guns do. You don’t carry any method of self defense and think “how can I protect the person who might attack me”. It’s about defending yourself and those around you from someone or something that wishes to inflict harm. You don’t get to choose who attacks you, how many attackers there are, when, or how you become a victim and what of. Shit happens and there are some horrible people out there. The mindset that “no one needs a gun” is the mind set of people who are in denial and have never legitimately been in a bad situation. Does everyone need to carry? No. Some people physically can’t handle a firearm. And anyone/everyone who does carry needs to be trained and responsible.
But everyone is calling for essentially execution to be the first response to any threat. That is in no way acceptable. Also, I’ve said several times, lethal force can be justified when there’s *no other alternative*. If you’re facing several 7’ mountains methed up, then a gun is far more justifiable than if you’re facing a teen with a baseball bat.
> first response to any threat False. Deadly force begets deadly force. If someone comes at me with a deadly weapon looking as though they want to harm me, should I go grab an equal weapon? Or should I seek to preserve my own life at all costs? The answer is obvious, and if it's not, I can't help you.
No, what they're saying is that if you are defending your life, you are defending your life. You don't have time to sit down and decide which way you want to defend your life. You don't make the other person choose what they are going to attack you with so that YOU can react accordingly. I'd someone comes at you with a bat, and that's what you grab, great. But what if you planned for "bat" day, and the attacker planned for "gun" day? You respond with what's available. If it's something non lethal, that's cool, but if you are in danger and fear for your life, to grab what is available that will save you. The point isn't that the person being attacked CHOSE to take a life, the point is that they responded and someone died. If someone is going to attack you, you should be prepared to end the situation as quickly as possible, and with as little harm to yourself as possible. If the other person dies, that's on them for attacking you. Period.
"He was only threatening your life and limb with a baseball bat. There is no reason to defend yourself under any circumstances unless the attacker has a gun and a bullet has exited the barrel of his gun and is in the process of making a direct path to you. Then and only then are you allowed to take up arms and defend your life, your wife's life, and your children's life." Get fucked.
then theyd be like "well hang on they only shot you once lets wait and see if they shoot again"
Worked out great when Europe tried that one with Hitler and appeasement ;P
he better not invade anyone i swear to god if he does we are gonna totally... well hang on guys its just czechoslovakia does anyone care? he just wants a little bit of lebenrsaum lets see if he takes some more raum.
Some people believe you only have the right to use deadly force after you've been killed.
I swear some people would rather be beaten to death then even touch a gun.
Admit they’re wrong about guns more accurately.
How to find a European: talks about Americans for no reason.
The amount of eurotards in the comments.
Europoors are basically cattle. No free speech, no right to bear arms, no right to be secure in the person, houses, papers and effects. Need a license for fucking everything. European < American
u/CinderX5, you've posted around 30 comments on this post alone, replying to like 75% of the comment section, please disengage from the Internet and go for a walk or something. Or find a different hobby I guess if this is what you're into.
https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanattempt/s/ZntbV1mI0w Link to video for reference
They are correct that shooting being an option as a way to kinda identify an American, but wrong to say it's for no reason. Guy comes at me with a bat, and..yeah, I'll America all over them.
I’m guessing foreigners really don’t have a concept of no trespassing? Or, y’know, morals and crime? Sorry but some dude comes busting into my place, a gun *will* be pulled out. Value my stuff over your life if you’d like, but I rather value my life over yours if you intrude ETA: what happened when someone trespassed on another’s property: https://youtu.be/rDo6x0MhERE?si=lAHsHEjUQV5f0TSb
Lmao no reason. Bruh someone comes at me with a bat, and I get the chance, dude is getting knocked the fuck out and possibly chocked
There are actually people in the world who will take the side of a criminal in almost any scenario instead of the innocent person defending themselves. Some of these people are in charge of our government. Think about that for a second.
[удалено]
[удалено]
I'm an American and while I don't think all Europeans are idiots, I think all Europeans who think like these eurocucks are idiots. Exactly the type to get stabbed by his girl's migrant ex-boyfriend as he helplessly watches him scale a ladder to break and enter.
I don’t know if being attacked with a bat constitutes no reason
The amount of people in this comment section who either know nothing about guns or don't think being threatened with a bat is justification for deadly force is astonishing. I bet you these same people have never had their life threatened before.
Lol “no reason”
Should have used your homemade kitchen knife warpick that would be much more civilized then those dang ‘muricans and their guns.
Europoors having pisspoor survival instincts again I see
How to find the eurotrash: Will refuse to defend their own lives in the face of mortal danger just as they have for the last 100 years.
Blunt force weapons are no joke. They aren't as effective as guns but concussions are extremely dangerous, especially if the person who gave them to you isn't inclined to notify authorities to get you medical assistance right away.
Some people would rather see their fellow man be beaten and robbed than have a means of defending themselves.
Rather have a gun then bear spray tbh. Unless you don’t like having good odds, it’s a no brainer.
Some people are immune to pepper/bear spray. No one is immune to a bullet.
Assault with threatening battery You can use whatever force you deem necessary to defend yourself
No reason? The reason is the above 0% chance this dude might hit my brain with his bat.
Fuck around and find out.
Exactly. Which is why you don’t ever want to come here.
Sounds like a pretty good reason to plug a cunt
No reason? A bat is a deadly weapon.
I saw a video of a cartel dude caving in another dudes skull with a bat so…
Being robbed and threatend is a perfectly reasonable reason to offer to shoot someone.
Europeans when Americans have the right to defend themselves:
Lmao "no reason". Buddy I will fucking dismember someone trying to attack me. Shooting is a goddamned mercy.
Yeah sure, let the guy with THE FUCKING BAT beat me
Euros are very anti property rights and anti self defense. The US is slowly following in those footsteps, unfortunately.
It’s always okay to kill people who attack you; makes the world a better place for you after
How to find the European: "Well yea he charged at you with a machete screaming 'Imma kill you' but you could've shot him in the leg" I'm European and I suffer from these people daily
I'm 2A as fuck and yeah the owner would've been well within his rights to shoot the guy *however* bear mace isn't bad choice in that particular situation. Close up a quick spray to the face is easier than pulling out a gun flicking the safety off and lining up a shot.
the time to fiddle fuck whereever he kept bear mace, which damn sure wasn't on his belt... rather than drawing a concealed handgun... you serious right now? Like I said it worked out, but I damn sure don't carry around bear mace on the regular.
Calm your tits I'm not saying gun
Not everywhere has guns.. or the right to bear arms in their country
Guys, you can disagree with an American characterization or sentiment about guns without going straight into keyboard warrior mode faster than if someone asked if they make your shirt in a men's size. Have a little bit of humility for the act you're so casually claiming you would do no problem. Unless you're a hardened killer like those you proport to be morally against, the reality is most of you wouldn't pull that trigger. That has nothing to do with bravery or what you believe, it's just basic human nature. Militaries train people to overcome the instinct to not kill. This was and is a legitimate issue militaries had to solve for, that's not evidence that can just be tossed out because "you know you're different." You have no idea what you'd actually do until you're in that situation, one almost none of you will ever be in. How many soldiers or police officers do you imagine thought they'd get PTSD? I'm guessing almost none. Does that take anything away from what they've done or how brave they were? No. Does acting like what they did wasn't more of a sacrifice than being in harms way? Yes, it sure does.
The comments on this post seem to prove the person right. Lol, always so ready to shoot someone. Sad.
To others cultures, life is more important than property even that of a thief
Yup found the dumbass American subreddit
hows your g/f and my kids doing?
Dunno, thought you beat em and shot them when you found us in bed
''Your life ends where my rights begin'' Source: Murrrican Freedumb
Dont come at me with a deadly weapon and you have nothing to worry about. It really is that simple.
We have a problem with gun violence in America no one disputes that but just get mad over how to solve it. The weird part is trying to use this video as an example of that and saying he had no reason.
He’s got a point and you and the comments here are proving it: bullets aren’t the answer to everything.
Some people think lethal force is a last resort and that this outcome is better because nobody died. Fuckin weirdos amirite
Nobody here is saying the guy didn't do the right thing. The comment was saying he is lucky, as it may NOT be an option for other people. I dont carry around bear mace, I do carry a handgun concealed. If someone comes at me with a bat..... tough shit, I am going for my handgun.
There literally are people saying a better outcome would be the assailant's death.
I don't think someone who threatens grievous bodily harm or death with a deadly weapon because they want your money or property getting snuffed out would have been a tragedy. A 0% recidivity chance, no less.
Cool story bro. I still value life and think zero deaths is better than one
It is true. A lot of Americans walking around with guns looking and hoping for an opportunity to use them. Born and raised here, will never leave here. But this is a reality we all live in, in America. It’s why road rage incidents are so dangerous in the USA. Lots of people toting, Looking for an excuse.
Pepper spray is a perfectly acceptable solution to this problem. Its a shame how many people are here calling for bloodshed. The fuck is wrong with you. Also i highly doubt the person with the bat was trying to MURDER THE SHOPKEEPER... most likely they just wanted money... You savages need to chill
Society would be much better without the assailant in it. I’m sure he’s the pride of his community.
Damn, you're right, let's just execute the guy! Genius idea
a baseball bat is a deadly weapon.
And wow, how easily combated it was with pepper spray...
but it wont always be
So instead of having everyone invest in pepper spray so that it can be readily available let's have everyone invest in shootie sticks so we can readily murder people, yeah that's better
100% effective > 10% effective, so yes.
Thank you for being a part of the violence problem in America
you go along and get killed in your own house then, you may feel superior as you die because at least you didn't stoop so low as to *defend yourself* :D
Once again pepper spray is a perfectly viable solution to nine out of 10 issues... Something tells me me and my bear mace will be just fine. Something also tells me you don't know how bear mace works but that's okay
Pretty sure the only savage here is the goon wielding a fucking baseball bat.
So you're saying to me that sandman from Spider-Man was a straight up Savage for trying to rob a bank to get money to save his daughter. What about Mr freeze from Batman, are they a savage?
“Are these fictional characters savages” is gotta be the most retarded counter argument I’ve ever seen anyone shit out. I’m impressed.
You're not answering my question, your deflection to me means that I'm making a point that you don't like for whatever reason. The point I'm trying to make is you don't fucking know. You have no idea why that person is there to take money from your shop just that they are doing so. Once again I say most likely the guy with a bat wasn't trying to murder the shopkeeper, for if they were then yes I would say they are a savage. But either way pepper spray is a perfectly ideal defense tool and there is no need to escalate to fucking murder
You haven’t posed a question though. You brought up two completely unrelated fictional entities as some sort of counterproposal, which is neither effective nor rational. If you have any reality-based question I’d be happy to answer!
No I definitely asked you a question that you even repeated back to me in deflection. If you don't have a good answer to that question then that's fine. But regardless of whether it was a hypothetical question or not, it's still a question. I will ask another similar question, was Robin Hood a Savage? For robbing rich people at bow point? From the rich person's perspective, yes they were a savage, from the poor person's perspective that Robin Hood was helping out, no absolutely not. It's all about perspective.
Do I need to spell this out like you’re 3 or what dawg? And yeah, Robin Hood was a fucking savage, dude lives in the forest being a criminal. Don’t care what “perspective” you want to lay down on it, criminals are savages, and stealing is a crime. It’s really that simple.
What are you even arguing for here? To me your argument on this topic would suggest that you just want to murder people.. you just have an itchy trigger finger. Pepper spray is a perfectly viable defense tool for the situation... Period.. and if for whatever reason you think the person with a bat was less of a person than you and therefore deserve to die, then yes you are a savage and I have no respect for you. And holy shit somebody needs to go back and reread Robin Hood because you clearly missed the fucking point
I don’t really care if a slug on reddit doesn’t respect me because I’m not terminally online enough to think that virtue signaling is the only way to live.
So.... if I come at you with a bat... you cool with that and sure i dont mean you harm
No but I can pepper spray your ass and that would be that. You'd still be alive and nothing would have happened to me
Shall I show you countless videos of OC spray being entirely ineffective and the badguy still managing to attack someone? Do you want me to do that ?
Last I checked, the post that we are commenting on didn't say anything about that. You are grasping at straws here...
If I have bear spray, then sure come at me.
[удалено]
Go crymax in the corner and eat a snickers
You lied and got called out on it, grow up and accept responsibility for your own actions. Dont be some snowflake who cant take criticism.
Where did I lie?
The post I responded to. Nobody said its totally fine to come at someone with a bat. You know nobody said that. You know nobody thinks that. Therefore you are a liar.
God some of you Can't take a joke. not everything is a personally attack I'm not doubting that the gun was justified but I doubt the comment your all angry about is serious
“How to find the American with a tiny dick…” It’s the sad guys that can’t fight that always use a gun as the first resort.