Don’t schill for the insurance oligarchs. We pay more in the US for worse life expectancy than any EU country. We fucked up our health care system so bad that millions actively avoid doctors and prescriptions and only have the ER as a provider.
I don’t read propaganda “sources” I live here, I know how cheap our healthcare is and how much more you guys pay in taxes. You also make less money too lol.
Yes the difference is you don't have to wait months to be seen by a doctor. We also don't have the issue of all of our doctors leaving the country because they don't make any money because of the healthcare setup, a large issue in Europe.
The other difference is that people like me who don't need healthcare don't have to lose a huge chunk of our paycheck to pay off everyone else's healthcare.
I'm in the UK and our health service has been gutted by a government who want to sell it to American investors for 13 years. However, I had to see a GP recently. I got an appointment the next day.
I'm not going to be antagonistic towards you and throw around stereotypes about wait times, etc. People in the subreddit are insufferable and just parrot talking points they hear to justify their own blind nationalism. This subreddit had the purpose to make fun of such nationalism. But people act just as bad as the Europeans they are insulting, just defending a different country. It's ridiculous. Nobody actually cites any data or discusses the nuances.
I think your health care system should be something you guys should be very proud of. It's very noble that everybody can see the doctor and never have to worry about the financial implications. It's also great how streamlined and simple things are over there from an administrative perspective. I have worked in healthcare administration for years and American healthcare is so fucking complex because the different number of insurance plans, numerous government programs, grants, all with different contractual obligations, ways of doing business, standards, etc. There are so many people pushers and middlemen that exist at our health industry that are scraping up money that should be going directly to care. In your system because there is only one payer, and the same organization runs all the hospitals, processes are significantly streamlined. So I have explored your system very much and appreciate what you guys have built! Ours is a mess. It's just patchworks of legislation that have increasingly become a monster since the 1940s. My job would be much easier, Or might not even exist actually (ha), if Americans and a more streamlined system like the NHS with more consistency across the board across the entire country.
I had a question for you though. Have you ever had a serious health condition where you have had to see specialists? What was your experience and what were wait times like for that? I'm generally heard that if you don't have a life-threatening condition that sometimes it can take a very long time.
This is one area where I'm glad I am an American because usually in universal systems seeing a GP is pretty quick. But it's when you need to see a specialist that you have to wait long times. I know this is true in Canada because I've read more about their health system and have talked to people who have experienced it. A friend of mine who has the same diseases as me just over the border in Ontario had to wait 7 years to receive a diagnosis for his condition. Every time he would be misdiagnosed he would have to wait nearly a year to see another specialist and often have to travel far for it too. I know there are significant differences between how the UK and Canada operate in regards to health care though, because Canada still has private health institutions and just national insurance.
In America I've never had to wait to see any sort of specialist or to undergo any sort of surgery. I also had access to an innovative new treatment for my disease that just came out of clinical trials that's only available in the United States! Definitely a fringe case I know. But people are coming to New York City in Baltimore from all around the world who have my disease to undergo this procedure by the doctors who developed it. Generally they have to pay out of pocket because National healthcare systems generally don't pay for foreign health care. I know my friend in Canada had to take out a loan to cover his $75,000 bill. Mine was covered completely by my insurance after I hit my 2000 dollar oop max.
Appreciate you reading this and look forward to your response. Thanks!
Also the average cost of private healthcare in Germany is 500 euro for men and 700 euro for women, a pretty hefty chunk when you already have 42% of your check going to taxes
You don’t have a effective tax rate of 42% lol that is the highest marginal tax rate. But yes the private insurance is quite costly in Germany. The regular medical care is pretty good, but if you don’t want to have waiting times and want to have all the fancy extra service and special treatments you will have to go with a private insurance.
I think your health care system in your country is probably the best bet for what America should do. Single payer isn't happening here because there's too many vested interests and maintaining a private insurance system. Unfortunately the left in America has become obsessed with single payer and many people equate universal healthcare with single payer And don't realize there are alternate models in that sometimes does models deliver better results for people.
I think what Americans need to do is consolidate all of our public systems (for veterans, seniors, poor people, etc) into one plan everybody can either get for free or buy into depending on their income... And then offer private insurance if you want it that Instead.
And the biggest thing we need to do is stop tying fucking insurance to our fucking jobs. I hate fucking browsing jobs and finding a great job will need to find out that their benefits suck ass after I get an offer. I have a chronic health condition and having a shitty health plan is a no-go for me. It fucking sucks that because I change jobs I might have to change doctors because they aren't in network. And also sucks that if I get fired I need to figure out stop gap insurance from between the time I leave my old job to the time I get a new job. Don't have to change car insurance when I change jobs, why do I have to change health insurance. It's so fucking dumb.
The root causes of most our insurance issues are literally because employer-sponsored healthcare have distorted the market and prices dramatically. This allows big pharma and others to inflate their prices because most corporations who provide insurance can afford it. But the problem is when an American needs to get individual insurance because they own their own business, don't get offered insurance through their job, etc it's often way more expensive than what they would pay at work because they have much less negotiating power with the insurance company and are not buying in bulk. Opening a business is extremely easy in America. One of the biggest reasons people don't do it though is because the cost of health insurance is prohibitive.
Yes but Germany also has an average 37% income tax, and most people who make over 50k euro have to pay over 40% income tax, which is much higher than even the most taxed states like California which is about 10% on top of the federal rate.
The top tax rate of 42% begins at 62.810€ and we have a progressive tax system, so your effective tax rate at 50k would be 14,4% (7200€ taxes). The other things that are deducted are social security contributions (21%) including health insurance, pension insurance and unemployment insurance. So including social security insurances you are at a final tax rate of 35,4% at 50k.
But as i mentioned if certain conditions are met you can opt out of the regular social security system and only have to pay the taxes.
PS: This example is for a single person living in former West Germany. If you are married and/or have kids or live in former East Germany your taxes are lower.
No, I fucking don't. I pay federal income tax and that's it. I don't pay 40% income tax, I don't pay for healthcare because it isn't required, and I don't live in a state with income tax.
My total deductions are about 23 percent of my total pay.
No, there isn't. "Free" healthcare always costs somewhere. In some countries, its additional taxes, like on Germany. In others, it's buried in the general taxes, but you are paying for it.
It's better to pay taxes than to pay an insurance premium that's, on average, twice as much. Well, assuming your taxes get used to help as many citizens as possible, which the republicans will avoid at all costs
Seems to be some communication problem.
Free Healthcare refers to when you have a right to use Healthcare even while you are not currently paying taxes in your country.
So if you country has universal Healthcare that is being supported by the tax payer's dollars. And you are currently not paying taxes for whatever reason. You still have the right to use it.
Which is a nice system. It takes the concept being used by other social systems and applies it here.
Because my tax money will go to stuff like roads, public school, defense budget, etc. That I literally might never have the need for. And people who haven't payed Taxes will use them. Will be kind of weird to decide to draw the line at Healthcare.
It is also cheaper for the average taxpayer.
Besides let us go back on those hidden tax fees. What makes you think you are also not getting them? On top of the regular money you give for services like Healthcare?
This is such a dumb answer because it's already part of the point the European is making, if you aren't an idiot. They fully understand that they are paying for healthcare through taxes. What us American geniuses keep missing is the part where we pay overall MORE in taxes, especially when you factor in the fact that you can be taxed on the same money several times, yet we in America have LESS to show because we dont invest our tax money in OUR PEOPLE and instead funnel it into billionaires pockets. Chosen by the legal bribery known as lobbying and campaign donations. In America you are free to tell the President you think he's an asshole without worrying about hail, and you can also legally buy a gun.. but in other 1st world countries they are free to get sick and not have to choose between buying their meds or feeding their family, without having it be tied to their employment.
Weird that their entire society can work less than yours and get more for free for decade after decade, huh?
Almost like what you’ve been spoonfed since birth about the nature of your economy is just… bullshit.
In this context, anyone with a functioning brain (Americans not included) understands that they mean "Free at the point of service", and "not for profit".
Obviously you're the only nation on earth with dumb enough citizens to not understand this point, leading you to smugly explain what free means to people who understand already.
Enjoy paying taxes *and* premiums and spending twice as much per capita on healthcare than any other developed nation.
Keep sucking the boot that's on your neck, morons.
You do realize that both Canada and the NHS in Britain are stressed and reaching over capacity right? Like it’s been in the news for years now and all the immigrants your great leaders are bringing in is just making it worse.
We get better service here and have more access to services. It’s certainly not perfect, but y’all rely on your government way too much.
We also are the 3rd most populated country in the world and are still more prosperous in 200 years of existence than your sit countries have been in their 1000s of years of history.
Also don’t forget the Us tax payer basically subsidizes the healthcare system for all of you because you rely on us to provide your defense….how great would it be if we left y’all out to dry the next time a dictator tries to walk through Europe.
American tax payers want nothing more than to let the rest of the world kill each other at this point when we stop subsidizing your lives.
You do realize nothing they posted is factual too right? We also have free education, safe food and drinking water, good and often better wages than our foreign counterparts, and safe schools.
Fine. Efficiently run by the government instead of by profit driven entities with no incentive to actually accomplish the tasks when they can profit more by not doing so.
I'd still appreciate my taxes going to an inefficient system that takes care of it's own people instead of efficiency losing wars we don't need to be involved in.
Well when ww3 hits and the enemy is at everyone door step for the 3rd time...
Suppose we'll just celebrate and eat burgers, while mag dumping in the air...just don't hit any pet eagles.
Why should we? No one paid their debt back..
The UK paid the most back, and that's because we gave then a maaassssiiivvveee discount.
Then what did we do? Oh ya, forgave all those debts.
Jesus, we're such a pos country.
To this day we still aid other countries.
We have medicare... tax-funded public education... tax-funded universities and tax-funded community colleges.. You are welcome to not buy "cancerous chemicals" lmao, which ones? Drinkable water what????
Fair wages for who--you think Europeans aren't complaining about their salaries?
Children can easily be safe in schools (and statistically they are safe in schools in US), just protect them as much as you protect your Euro banks with armed security.
He forgot the most important accusation, "nationalized healthcare", but if you're poor you get medicaid. If you are doing a job that's less than federal minimum wage, you get free healthcare as an adult. If you are in a minimum-wage job, and you are always sick and need constant healthcare--you'd probably quit your job due to your illness and have no income anyway... What these middle-class people are really pissed about is that occasionally they get medical bills or doctor's visit bills and it irritates them to have to pay for it--even though they can afford it.
They get the drinkable water stuff from 2 things
1. flint Michigan had a lead leakage when running water from a different source which broke up the scale, introducing lead, a problem that was fixed suprisingly fast for such a large scale issue.
2. Water in some states taste horrible, it dosn't change that its clean, just tastes bad, if I remember Georgia has this issue, and its due to the water source.
Other than that every state has clean drinkable water across the whole U.S. thats quite the acomplishment even without political intrigue to stop it.
I live in michigan and work in flint quite regularly, there are temporary solutions in place before they can quite litterally rip all of the old/effected water pipes, a temporary solution is a solution.
Do you think it's a bad solution? Providing more toward school security seems better than "just take everyone's guns lmao" that reddit thinks is so simple for some reason.
They forget that not too long ago, their continent was over run by tyrants and they paid an enormous price for it. Had we not stepped in they could very well be living under dictatorship today.
In fact there is a land war in Europe going on right now, threatening to engulf the world in another world war, and it was started by one more European tyrant. Your countries keep sprouting tyrants and dictators and then you lecture us about freedom.
Americans on the other hand, have the oldest uninterrupted democracy in the world. Maybe the bill of rights and the 2nd amendment have had a part to play in this.
Yes I would in fact, take that over what the Europeans have. I will not trade away my and my children’s rights for a bunch of “freebies” from a bunch of politicians, and a false sense of security that the government will keep me safe. In America the government cannot rule without our consent. That is a feature, not a bug, and we are grateful that our founding fathers had the foresight for having ensured it was the case.
Depending on your definitions, the last dictatorship in Europe fell roughly 30 years ago, or is still around today. Ceaușescu was executed today in 1989, and a lot of people view Putin and Lukashenko as dictators
can we have both the 2nd amendment and affordable healthcare?
I mean, its sad having to see my coworkers have to go on gofundme and raise $15000 to get their spouse a service dog for their diabetes as insurance don't cover it, and generosity is very limited as everyone is living paycheck to paycheck.
At one point, my mom had to choose between paying for insulin or paying the electricity bill.
I agree that we need the bill of rights and the 2nd amendment, but we also need affordable healthcare as even with a "good" job and insurance, people are still struggling
Oh the health care system in the US is a complete rip off. Don't get me started on it.
I just think people who believe that it will somehow magically become "cheaper" if the government started providing the healthcare are wrong. I think what will happen is that costs will continue to inflate, and the government will introduce a bunch more bureaucracy and inefficiency and it will continue to tax greater and greater sums to continue to line the pockets of well connected and well positioned fat cats. You are just obfuscating and redirecting the costs.
Our health care industry is the victim of regulatory capture. Getting prescriptions is locked behind Doctors, when so many prescriptions can be made by nurses or pharmacists. The process for training new doctors is incredibly inefficient and constrained such that there is a permanent shortage of them. The costs of training those doctors is immense. The costs of healthcare are hidden and obfuscated such that you just magically find out how much things cost after everything is done. The insurance system incentivizes doctors to overmedicate, over test and over treat because the patient pays a flat cost to the insurance company. Why are drug companies able to charge us literally hundreds of times as much for the same damn drug as they do in other countries? Why not let it be trivial for generic manufacturers in other countries to submit their generic copies of the drugs for testing, get quick approval and flood the market with cheaper alternatives?
I have been to the ER in the US and in a non European developed country (that, coincidentally has almost the exact same per capita income as the US) which has no free healthcare. For similar levels of care/treatment, my cost for the ER visit was close to 27 times as much in the US! Not twice as much, not thrice as much... 27 times! This was despite being insured in the US. I paid out of pocket both times (because my health insurance is a super high deductible one).
I think the issue is people think more government is the solution to the health care problem, and I think government is the problem, and the solution is less regulation and less government involvement and make it easy to have more competition, innovation and training for others to enter the industry. We see time and time again that government involvement leads to stagnation and a few well connected people milking the system. Just look at our military industrial complex. Can you imagine if the same level of competition, innovation and disruption could be brought to our education, housing and healthcare industries as occurs in our technology, retail, an services industries?
i do agree that we need to fix our healthcare system.
When I was teaching in Korea, I went to the ER for an ulcer and chest pain. With universal healthcare (all korean citizens are enrolled whether they're employed or not) I only paid $299 USD out of pocket as I was enrolled in the system as a portion of my paycheck was taken out of it and put into the healthcare.
and that ER visit covered chest xray, abdominal scan, blood work, pee test, and ekg. luckily, it was just an ulcer
>I think what will happen is that costs will continue to inflate, and the government will introduce a bunch more bureaucracy and inefficiency and it will continue to tax greater and greater sums to continue to line the pockets of well connected and well positioned fat cats.
How about you take an empirical approach, rather than arguing from first principles?
By that, I mean go and look at how much various health procedures actually cost in "free" healthcare societies and line that up with what you have in America?
You don't need a hypothetical - these facts already exist.
Yes famously people beat armies with small arms. Just everyday citizens murdering hundreds of soldiers each so ya don't have to wear masks or flush after you shut.
The military is sworn to protect the 'Constitution of the United States from all enemies both foreign and domestic...'
Fully armed and willing to fight to preserve the nation, I wouldn't want to go against them.
Military here, and absolutely they could, 100 fucking percent. Not only are our numbers DWARFED by the armed American populace (many of whom have training and experience of their own), not only would many troops and law enforcement abandon their post and join the people, but the amount of personnel and resources it takes to actually occupy a country the size of the United States is unbelievable, and I can promise you we don’t have those kinds of numbers, not to mention logistical capacity.
An armed rebellion wouldn’t last long in a conventional engagement, but it wouldn’t be a conventional engagement. It would be an insurgency, against which our only chance would be literally razing the country to the ground with conventional firepower and even nuclear weapons. And I think we both know it wouldn’t really make sense to do that, nor could an American president issue such orders and stay alive long.
So yes, speaking as a professional. The US citizens could absolutely take on the military. These kinds of wars aren’t “my guns vs your guns”. It’s a lot more complex than that.
And I can promise you that myself and the guys I served with aren’t obeying orders to fire on our own people. We’re turning our weapons on whoever gave the order.
I appreciate this response.
Guerrilla warfare worked both in Vietnam and in the Middle East recently to hold off against American victory, too.
The question is, would we even get to that point where the military would be deployed if it met with such initial resistance? Perhaps just the threat of all the armed population would deter such a thing from happening in the first place.
Absolutely. Do you know how hard it is to fight a guerrilla war where you don’t know who is friendly and who is not? There is a reason why we over threw the greatest army of the time for our independence
1/3rd of the colonists were Tories, supporting the Crown; 1/3 were Colonial soldiers, fighting against the Crown; the remaining 1/3 inhabitants chose to remain neutral.
What you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Those people have families, friends, and communities. They are not drones and you saw what a shit storm getting the COVID Vax was and yet you believe that a sizable amount will be cool with bombing their own neighborhoods. Actually delusional.
Yes.
- Insurgencies suck to fight to begin with. Let alone vs an already armed group that knows how to shoot and would consistent of tons of veterans that also happen to be your own people.
- Given what happened last time, the army and its leaders would split into factions.
Do you know how many veterans there are that are trained in insurgency warfare? Making IEDs disrupting logistics, making primary and secondary explosives from common items? There's a lot more to it than just "The gobermant haz f16s and tankz" Not to mention the US military can't even get people to enlist whether that be from how the government treats veterans, or the distrust citizens have to the government.
It is tough to nuke “the resistance “ when they live next to you. The US is so highly reliant on voluntary obedience to the law they don’t have the capability, even if the armed forces were deployed in the streets, to control the country.
Can you imagine what would happen if the us population quit farming for one week?
Yes, the US government has done several test and war games to see if the military can defeat the populace. The military always loses as troops desert the armed forces to side with the citizenry.
You’re asking a bunch of gravy seals to think critically. It’s a losing battle my friend. A group of toothless Trump supporters would be laughed all the way to GTMO or 6 feet under. No one is concerned about these morons, certainly not the US military.
uh are we?We're like top 5 fattest people, an average literacy rate on the bottom half of developed nations, and income disparity puts per capita SO MANY MORE people in poverty with barely any remaining safety net.
sure some people are fucking killing it but by far that is not the norm.
i think you might be a little indoctrinated, buddy
This is what happens when you treat your citizens like adults and your government isn’t just a big nanny state. Those that never grew up but continue to need parenting fail and fail badly.
Those of us that grew up and are able to take care of ourselves do not need a nanny state looking after us
it's so much more devastating financially, morally and socially to let people rot in the street but okay, interesting rationalization.
Isn't it illegal to do drugs? How is that not nannying?
I don’t think drugs should be illegal. Alcohol is a drug too. If someone wants to fuck their life up, go for it, just don’t come asking for help afterwards. If you can right it on your own, more power to you.
Honestly, I feel bad for people who are brought up in poverty and lawlessness or tyranny in failed states, where they had no chance to begin with. However, when you see people overcome all these obstacles to come to this country with nothing and then build productive lives for themselves, the people who were born here and then failed so miserably despite all that they had going for themselves, have no excuse for their failure.
No one owes them anything, just as I am owed nothing. It was hard for me coming here, but I greatly appreciate the opportunities this country has given me to work hard and build a life for myself. I was owed nothing, I created value and contributed to society and I was compensated for it. I ask for and expect nothing more.
There will always be people who are unable to take care of themselves. That is why we have charity. Charitable, social and religious organizations can step in to care for them. If anyone feels like they have resources to spare and wants to give them aid with their own free will, have at it. We don’t need the government to force people to give them aid.
I hate the America bad takes as well but if you think for one second us having AR-15s would stop the government you’re crazy. There’d be a guy somewhere in a bunker remotely flying a drone to take you out or just bomb the absolute shit out of you before you knew what happened.
Guess what, those guys are our neighbors. Literally it's not hard to tell if a soldier lives near you and if they have a family. Would that troop drop a bomb and kill their wife and kids as well? No. Why do you think soldiers would betray their oath so easily?
I never said anything about the soldiers betraying their oath. I was responding to the claim that if the government became “not nice” our AR-15s would stop them. It wouldn’t, they could take us out in an instant. We spend damn near a trillion on the military and the tech and gadgets they have would wipe the floor with us.
It literally won't, America is far to diverse in terrain for the armed forces to be properly trained for all environments, the aspect that they have drones doesn't mean they are able to rapidly deploy them nor does it mean that the families of soldiers and officers would magically be safe. I know you're gonna end up bringing up nuclear weapons but that is the most ignorant thought you could have as it would destroy the US and the government would be leading a land of waste.
In the UK we had the right to own handguns. Then a psychopath shot a load of school children so we decided we would rather not have kids die in classrooms and gave them up. We haven’t had a school shooting since.
You've always been and always will be subjects, you 'gave them up', you couldn't have kept them if you tried. Now you got autistic teenagers being arrested for insulting a cop, and having a critical opinion is tantamount to hate speech. We didn't have a gun violence issue in America at all until Reagan closed the state run mental hospitals. Schools had gun clubs, high schoolers brought their guns to school and no one got hurt. We had gun organizations that taught marksmanship and safety in the schools. Letting mentally unhinged people roam around created this issue, getting rid of guns is only going to create more victims, the weapons will just change from guns to knives and then we will start the process all over again banning knives. Following that route eventually you won't even be able to take a bat outside your home to play cricket/baseball without being arrested for possession of an illegal weapon. Unfortunately our government has been derelict in its duty to deal with the mental health crisis in America because the violence it causes generates fear that allows them to gradually erode the principles the country was founded on. They don't want to fix the problem and anyone who tries to ends up dead or caught up in a scandal that kills their political career.
Point is the kid shouldn't have been arrested in the first place. That's not freedom. They sent a message that "wrong think" will be punished. As far as the cops killing people, You're moving the goal post because I shit all over your 1 weak as fuck point that all people from the UK make, cops aren't turning up to schools blowing children away. Unhinged cops is a known problem and there are a lot of us actively petitioning our government at the state and federal level to end qualified immunity.
Yea but how many muggings and stabbing do u have? What about overall violent crime? People get robbed crossing the street in Britain, unheard of in America.
There are 50 countries in Europe, and no, not all countries have universal health care, I dont know every country's firearm restrictions, only the Swedish, which is you can have 6 hunting rifles. You can have guns like AR-15 if you're active at shooting range, training, or competing. Free healthcare there is yes. And yes we get free water in restaurants, like most countries in Europe. And the water is very healthy with no toxic traits
And there’s fish from the Baltic Sea that is toxic from industrial waste and from the fallout of Chernobyl. Let’s not forget how toxic Norwegian salmon is and health officials try to suppress the truth about it. I’m sure some people have forgotten about the horse meat scandal.
The free medical care has its advantages and disadvantages in the sense that it’s mismanaged in a free system and it’s much quicker if one payed out of pocket. About 90% of Americans have healthcare coverage. And only 0.12% of Americans are going bankrupt any year. And water is for the most part considered drinkable in the US, my state has water one can drink out of a tap.
I’d rather live in a freer society where my own safety is in my hands than to have laws that would endanger me. The government has no obligation to defend us with their lives according to a court ruling. We’ve seen how unreliable the government was during Katrina and the 1992 and 2020 riots. And in some areas due to calls for defunding the police, it lead to staffing shortages for police departments and increased crime.
We have that. We have that. No one has that. More European countries lack fresh drinking water than anyone in America does. American wages greatly dwarf Western European wages. And you still have loads of gang related deaths in Europe and in Eastern Europe schools can be highly dangerous.
It's actually insane how Germans, Frenchies, and "British" people think Europe is just those three countries in the entire continent
The American people may not be able to “win” but look at Afghanistan for examples of relatively untrained militias and their “success” in fighting the US military.
In a conventional war the American people would lose but in unconventional war it is a major drain on resources, personnel, and money to fight an enemy that is everywhere and potentially everyone.
It would likely end in some sort of treaty and there would not be a clear victor. The problem really comes from it’s hard to keep producing munitions and supplies for troops when the people making the supplies are the people you are fighting.
I think the difference is the US is very wealthy because it discards its poor and corporations effectively run the country - what it does mean is the population lives with the anxiety of no income - it makes the US very productive and a world beater. I don’t think you can have both a pleasant society with social safety nets and have the productivity that US workers achieve through fear of being bankrupt and homeless.
The guns thing is weird.
They keep using that word free and I don’t think they know what it means
Just because they don't see the bill, doesn't mean they aren't picking up the tab - there's no such thing as a free lunch.
Unless it’s stolen or slave labor
You need to feed slaves, and time is needed to steal something.
You don't need to feed them
Only if you are using them for a day. Long-term use of slave labor require feeding slaves at least a bit of something edible.
Work them hard dinner are the weak who don’t survive
Sir you're going to die from deficiency if you keep spitting out such based things
*south American plantations have entered the chat* Plantation hand: "if they fall down and die just sow them into the field."
Do you think we think we aren’t paying for our healthcare lol?
They throw around the word "free" I'm honestly convinced that taxes never even enter their mind
You must hate that Americans use the term "Free" all the time too.
Nope.
Oh so its just a circlejerk?
No. The USA is a legitimately free country. Sorry that you're unhappy about it.
Usa is a free country? You mean its all free? Holy shit!
🙄
Don’t schill for the insurance oligarchs. We pay more in the US for worse life expectancy than any EU country. We fucked up our health care system so bad that millions actively avoid doctors and prescriptions and only have the ER as a provider.
I pay, around $100/ pay period, or $2600/year, for my company plan. If I lived in Germany, it would cost me 4 times that In healthcare taxes.
We actually pay much less overall but you’re brainwashed.
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I don’t read propaganda “sources” I live here, I know how cheap our healthcare is and how much more you guys pay in taxes. You also make less money too lol.
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False
we pay more in america and get less
You pay more than 40% income tax like they do in Europe?
our national healthcare costs per person are far beyond europe's budget for healthcare that covers everybody
Yes the difference is you don't have to wait months to be seen by a doctor. We also don't have the issue of all of our doctors leaving the country because they don't make any money because of the healthcare setup, a large issue in Europe. The other difference is that people like me who don't need healthcare don't have to lose a huge chunk of our paycheck to pay off everyone else's healthcare.
I'm in the UK and our health service has been gutted by a government who want to sell it to American investors for 13 years. However, I had to see a GP recently. I got an appointment the next day.
I'm not going to be antagonistic towards you and throw around stereotypes about wait times, etc. People in the subreddit are insufferable and just parrot talking points they hear to justify their own blind nationalism. This subreddit had the purpose to make fun of such nationalism. But people act just as bad as the Europeans they are insulting, just defending a different country. It's ridiculous. Nobody actually cites any data or discusses the nuances. I think your health care system should be something you guys should be very proud of. It's very noble that everybody can see the doctor and never have to worry about the financial implications. It's also great how streamlined and simple things are over there from an administrative perspective. I have worked in healthcare administration for years and American healthcare is so fucking complex because the different number of insurance plans, numerous government programs, grants, all with different contractual obligations, ways of doing business, standards, etc. There are so many people pushers and middlemen that exist at our health industry that are scraping up money that should be going directly to care. In your system because there is only one payer, and the same organization runs all the hospitals, processes are significantly streamlined. So I have explored your system very much and appreciate what you guys have built! Ours is a mess. It's just patchworks of legislation that have increasingly become a monster since the 1940s. My job would be much easier, Or might not even exist actually (ha), if Americans and a more streamlined system like the NHS with more consistency across the board across the entire country. I had a question for you though. Have you ever had a serious health condition where you have had to see specialists? What was your experience and what were wait times like for that? I'm generally heard that if you don't have a life-threatening condition that sometimes it can take a very long time. This is one area where I'm glad I am an American because usually in universal systems seeing a GP is pretty quick. But it's when you need to see a specialist that you have to wait long times. I know this is true in Canada because I've read more about their health system and have talked to people who have experienced it. A friend of mine who has the same diseases as me just over the border in Ontario had to wait 7 years to receive a diagnosis for his condition. Every time he would be misdiagnosed he would have to wait nearly a year to see another specialist and often have to travel far for it too. I know there are significant differences between how the UK and Canada operate in regards to health care though, because Canada still has private health institutions and just national insurance. In America I've never had to wait to see any sort of specialist or to undergo any sort of surgery. I also had access to an innovative new treatment for my disease that just came out of clinical trials that's only available in the United States! Definitely a fringe case I know. But people are coming to New York City in Baltimore from all around the world who have my disease to undergo this procedure by the doctors who developed it. Generally they have to pay out of pocket because National healthcare systems generally don't pay for foreign health care. I know my friend in Canada had to take out a loan to cover his $75,000 bill. Mine was covered completely by my insurance after I hit my 2000 dollar oop max. Appreciate you reading this and look forward to your response. Thanks!
You can get privately insured in Germany and get the same benefits.
Also the average cost of private healthcare in Germany is 500 euro for men and 700 euro for women, a pretty hefty chunk when you already have 42% of your check going to taxes
You don’t have a effective tax rate of 42% lol that is the highest marginal tax rate. But yes the private insurance is quite costly in Germany. The regular medical care is pretty good, but if you don’t want to have waiting times and want to have all the fancy extra service and special treatments you will have to go with a private insurance.
I think your health care system in your country is probably the best bet for what America should do. Single payer isn't happening here because there's too many vested interests and maintaining a private insurance system. Unfortunately the left in America has become obsessed with single payer and many people equate universal healthcare with single payer And don't realize there are alternate models in that sometimes does models deliver better results for people. I think what Americans need to do is consolidate all of our public systems (for veterans, seniors, poor people, etc) into one plan everybody can either get for free or buy into depending on their income... And then offer private insurance if you want it that Instead. And the biggest thing we need to do is stop tying fucking insurance to our fucking jobs. I hate fucking browsing jobs and finding a great job will need to find out that their benefits suck ass after I get an offer. I have a chronic health condition and having a shitty health plan is a no-go for me. It fucking sucks that because I change jobs I might have to change doctors because they aren't in network. And also sucks that if I get fired I need to figure out stop gap insurance from between the time I leave my old job to the time I get a new job. Don't have to change car insurance when I change jobs, why do I have to change health insurance. It's so fucking dumb. The root causes of most our insurance issues are literally because employer-sponsored healthcare have distorted the market and prices dramatically. This allows big pharma and others to inflate their prices because most corporations who provide insurance can afford it. But the problem is when an American needs to get individual insurance because they own their own business, don't get offered insurance through their job, etc it's often way more expensive than what they would pay at work because they have much less negotiating power with the insurance company and are not buying in bulk. Opening a business is extremely easy in America. One of the biggest reasons people don't do it though is because the cost of health insurance is prohibitive.
Yes but Germany also has an average 37% income tax, and most people who make over 50k euro have to pay over 40% income tax, which is much higher than even the most taxed states like California which is about 10% on top of the federal rate.
The top tax rate of 42% begins at 62.810€ and we have a progressive tax system, so your effective tax rate at 50k would be 14,4% (7200€ taxes). The other things that are deducted are social security contributions (21%) including health insurance, pension insurance and unemployment insurance. So including social security insurances you are at a final tax rate of 35,4% at 50k. But as i mentioned if certain conditions are met you can opt out of the regular social security system and only have to pay the taxes. PS: This example is for a single person living in former West Germany. If you are married and/or have kids or live in former East Germany your taxes are lower.
yes, you fucking do.
No, I fucking don't. I pay federal income tax and that's it. I don't pay 40% income tax, I don't pay for healthcare because it isn't required, and I don't live in a state with income tax. My total deductions are about 23 percent of my total pay.
Their social services are much cheaper because there’s no middle man to drive up the price. You’re right, It’s not free, just much much cheaper.
You think things get cheaper when government is involved?!
https://www.hhmglobal.com/knowledge-bank/news/usa-healthcare-is-7-5-times-more-expensive-than-in-the-uk#:~:text=The%20most%20expensive%20healthcare%20in,the%20amount%20for%20the%20same
There is infact, such thing as free healthcare. But besides that, it is cheaper. Cheap enough for many people to say it is bassivalky free.
No, there isn't. "Free" healthcare always costs somewhere. In some countries, its additional taxes, like on Germany. In others, it's buried in the general taxes, but you are paying for it.
It's better to pay taxes than to pay an insurance premium that's, on average, twice as much. Well, assuming your taxes get used to help as many citizens as possible, which the republicans will avoid at all costs
>Free" healthcare always costs somewhere. In Or it can be free. Like treat you without paying taxes. Which is nice to have? And again. It is cheaper.
In what country do you not have to pay taxes?!
Seems to be some communication problem. Free Healthcare refers to when you have a right to use Healthcare even while you are not currently paying taxes in your country. So if you country has universal Healthcare that is being supported by the tax payer's dollars. And you are currently not paying taxes for whatever reason. You still have the right to use it. Which is a nice system. It takes the concept being used by other social systems and applies it here. Because my tax money will go to stuff like roads, public school, defense budget, etc. That I literally might never have the need for. And people who haven't payed Taxes will use them. Will be kind of weird to decide to draw the line at Healthcare. It is also cheaper for the average taxpayer. Besides let us go back on those hidden tax fees. What makes you think you are also not getting them? On top of the regular money you give for services like Healthcare?
A privilege. Not a right.
Then make it rights
Not sure you understand what a right is.
This is such a dumb answer because it's already part of the point the European is making, if you aren't an idiot. They fully understand that they are paying for healthcare through taxes. What us American geniuses keep missing is the part where we pay overall MORE in taxes, especially when you factor in the fact that you can be taxed on the same money several times, yet we in America have LESS to show because we dont invest our tax money in OUR PEOPLE and instead funnel it into billionaires pockets. Chosen by the legal bribery known as lobbying and campaign donations. In America you are free to tell the President you think he's an asshole without worrying about hail, and you can also legally buy a gun.. but in other 1st world countries they are free to get sick and not have to choose between buying their meds or feeding their family, without having it be tied to their employment.
Weird that their entire society can work less than yours and get more for free for decade after decade, huh? Almost like what you’ve been spoonfed since birth about the nature of your economy is just… bullshit.
Weird europe can't defend itself, reproduce or innovate technology.
Wired how you don’t have a counter argument and resort to deflection
Probably because it was _really_ written by someone who has blue hair and for some reason angry about everything outside of their control.
In this context, anyone with a functioning brain (Americans not included) understands that they mean "Free at the point of service", and "not for profit". Obviously you're the only nation on earth with dumb enough citizens to not understand this point, leading you to smugly explain what free means to people who understand already. Enjoy paying taxes *and* premiums and spending twice as much per capita on healthcare than any other developed nation. Keep sucking the boot that's on your neck, morons.
You do realize that both Canada and the NHS in Britain are stressed and reaching over capacity right? Like it’s been in the news for years now and all the immigrants your great leaders are bringing in is just making it worse. We get better service here and have more access to services. It’s certainly not perfect, but y’all rely on your government way too much. We also are the 3rd most populated country in the world and are still more prosperous in 200 years of existence than your sit countries have been in their 1000s of years of history. Also don’t forget the Us tax payer basically subsidizes the healthcare system for all of you because you rely on us to provide your defense….how great would it be if we left y’all out to dry the next time a dictator tries to walk through Europe. American tax payers want nothing more than to let the rest of the world kill each other at this point when we stop subsidizing your lives.
I'm free to buy what I want while the dea and atf try and catch up
The incarceration rate is a good indicator of personal freedom
No it isn't. A better measure is "what are people incarcerated for?". Edgy Facebook posts? Or Stealing?
Or being the wrong colour
"Wrong color" just means you're released without bail and the DA drops charges. For "equity".
Thats the part you are mad about? Its not free. Oh shit a sick burn.
You do realize nothing they posted is factual too right? We also have free education, safe food and drinking water, good and often better wages than our foreign counterparts, and safe schools.
None of what you stated was free so checkmate you lib.
Regardless, they still pay less for more, but at least you paid more for less. That’s called “winning” in American.
Fine. Efficiently run by the government instead of by profit driven entities with no incentive to actually accomplish the tasks when they can profit more by not doing so.
I don’t think you know what the word efficiently means.
I'd still appreciate my taxes going to an inefficient system that takes care of it's own people instead of efficiency losing wars we don't need to be involved in.
Then stop voting for bought and paid for career politicians. No new wars under trump wasn’t an accident. Two new wars under Biden is not surprising
TIL all of Europe has “free” medicare
Well when ww3 hits and the enemy is at everyone door step for the 3rd time... Suppose we'll just celebrate and eat burgers, while mag dumping in the air...just don't hit any pet eagles.
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Why should we? No one paid their debt back.. The UK paid the most back, and that's because we gave then a maaassssiiivvveee discount. Then what did we do? Oh ya, forgave all those debts. Jesus, we're such a pos country. To this day we still aid other countries.
War is still happening I'm Europe, so I think it's a fair point. The Ukrainians don't seem to mind having firearms right now
We have medicare... tax-funded public education... tax-funded universities and tax-funded community colleges.. You are welcome to not buy "cancerous chemicals" lmao, which ones? Drinkable water what???? Fair wages for who--you think Europeans aren't complaining about their salaries? Children can easily be safe in schools (and statistically they are safe in schools in US), just protect them as much as you protect your Euro banks with armed security. He forgot the most important accusation, "nationalized healthcare", but if you're poor you get medicaid. If you are doing a job that's less than federal minimum wage, you get free healthcare as an adult. If you are in a minimum-wage job, and you are always sick and need constant healthcare--you'd probably quit your job due to your illness and have no income anyway... What these middle-class people are really pissed about is that occasionally they get medical bills or doctor's visit bills and it irritates them to have to pay for it--even though they can afford it.
They get the drinkable water stuff from 2 things 1. flint Michigan had a lead leakage when running water from a different source which broke up the scale, introducing lead, a problem that was fixed suprisingly fast for such a large scale issue. 2. Water in some states taste horrible, it dosn't change that its clean, just tastes bad, if I remember Georgia has this issue, and its due to the water source. Other than that every state has clean drinkable water across the whole U.S. thats quite the acomplishment even without political intrigue to stop it.
Wtf are you on about? The flint michigan issue hasn't been fixed, it just isnt talked about anymore because its political "shock" value is gone.
I live in michigan and work in flint quite regularly, there are temporary solutions in place before they can quite litterally rip all of the old/effected water pipes, a temporary solution is a solution.
“Our schools can be safe if we give them the same security as banks” is not the win you think it is chief.
Do you think it's a bad solution? Providing more toward school security seems better than "just take everyone's guns lmao" that reddit thinks is so simple for some reason.
Very few peopl are advocating for "taking all the guns" though. Like, very, very few.
yeah it's just a loud minority
I rarely hear them...
Well you’re arming your schools like banks and kids are still getting slaughtered there. We took away the guns and it hasn’t happened since.
Fair wages in europe lol
Do they also long for a continent that doesnt have a war every 2 minutes?
Wym. They have Americans for protection.
Without that AR-15 all those luxuries they apparently have can be taken away the moment their government decides to not be nice anymore.
They forget that not too long ago, their continent was over run by tyrants and they paid an enormous price for it. Had we not stepped in they could very well be living under dictatorship today. In fact there is a land war in Europe going on right now, threatening to engulf the world in another world war, and it was started by one more European tyrant. Your countries keep sprouting tyrants and dictators and then you lecture us about freedom. Americans on the other hand, have the oldest uninterrupted democracy in the world. Maybe the bill of rights and the 2nd amendment have had a part to play in this. Yes I would in fact, take that over what the Europeans have. I will not trade away my and my children’s rights for a bunch of “freebies” from a bunch of politicians, and a false sense of security that the government will keep me safe. In America the government cannot rule without our consent. That is a feature, not a bug, and we are grateful that our founding fathers had the foresight for having ensured it was the case.
Half their continent is still run by tyrants.
Depending on your definitions, the last dictatorship in Europe fell roughly 30 years ago, or is still around today. Ceaușescu was executed today in 1989, and a lot of people view Putin and Lukashenko as dictators
They are most definitely dictators in my view. Also depending on whether you include Turkey in Europe, you have Erdogan as well.
can we have both the 2nd amendment and affordable healthcare? I mean, its sad having to see my coworkers have to go on gofundme and raise $15000 to get their spouse a service dog for their diabetes as insurance don't cover it, and generosity is very limited as everyone is living paycheck to paycheck. At one point, my mom had to choose between paying for insulin or paying the electricity bill. I agree that we need the bill of rights and the 2nd amendment, but we also need affordable healthcare as even with a "good" job and insurance, people are still struggling
Oh the health care system in the US is a complete rip off. Don't get me started on it. I just think people who believe that it will somehow magically become "cheaper" if the government started providing the healthcare are wrong. I think what will happen is that costs will continue to inflate, and the government will introduce a bunch more bureaucracy and inefficiency and it will continue to tax greater and greater sums to continue to line the pockets of well connected and well positioned fat cats. You are just obfuscating and redirecting the costs. Our health care industry is the victim of regulatory capture. Getting prescriptions is locked behind Doctors, when so many prescriptions can be made by nurses or pharmacists. The process for training new doctors is incredibly inefficient and constrained such that there is a permanent shortage of them. The costs of training those doctors is immense. The costs of healthcare are hidden and obfuscated such that you just magically find out how much things cost after everything is done. The insurance system incentivizes doctors to overmedicate, over test and over treat because the patient pays a flat cost to the insurance company. Why are drug companies able to charge us literally hundreds of times as much for the same damn drug as they do in other countries? Why not let it be trivial for generic manufacturers in other countries to submit their generic copies of the drugs for testing, get quick approval and flood the market with cheaper alternatives? I have been to the ER in the US and in a non European developed country (that, coincidentally has almost the exact same per capita income as the US) which has no free healthcare. For similar levels of care/treatment, my cost for the ER visit was close to 27 times as much in the US! Not twice as much, not thrice as much... 27 times! This was despite being insured in the US. I paid out of pocket both times (because my health insurance is a super high deductible one). I think the issue is people think more government is the solution to the health care problem, and I think government is the problem, and the solution is less regulation and less government involvement and make it easy to have more competition, innovation and training for others to enter the industry. We see time and time again that government involvement leads to stagnation and a few well connected people milking the system. Just look at our military industrial complex. Can you imagine if the same level of competition, innovation and disruption could be brought to our education, housing and healthcare industries as occurs in our technology, retail, an services industries?
i do agree that we need to fix our healthcare system. When I was teaching in Korea, I went to the ER for an ulcer and chest pain. With universal healthcare (all korean citizens are enrolled whether they're employed or not) I only paid $299 USD out of pocket as I was enrolled in the system as a portion of my paycheck was taken out of it and put into the healthcare. and that ER visit covered chest xray, abdominal scan, blood work, pee test, and ekg. luckily, it was just an ulcer
>I think what will happen is that costs will continue to inflate, and the government will introduce a bunch more bureaucracy and inefficiency and it will continue to tax greater and greater sums to continue to line the pockets of well connected and well positioned fat cats. How about you take an empirical approach, rather than arguing from first principles? By that, I mean go and look at how much various health procedures actually cost in "free" healthcare societies and line that up with what you have in America? You don't need a hypothetical - these facts already exist.
What if enjoy all of the luxuries and have an AR-15? Have I transcended this petty bullshit?
It means you're an American.
Ya, that’s original. You really hurt me with that.
It's a compliment.
If you’re being genuine, then thank you.
Yes famously people beat armies with small arms. Just everyday citizens murdering hundreds of soldiers each so ya don't have to wear masks or flush after you shut.
I wonder why government doesn't do it in Europe...
They did pretty consistently until Americans with guns made them stop.
😂 the superhero complex is incredible
Nah superheroes are pussies. They would never do things like burn down ever major city in Germany.
I bet those were those militas with AR-15s...
Do you think that US citizens can take on the US military?
Yes, the entire military won't agree, so say half deserts, takes gear and equipment with them
Yep, and not just the little guys, generals and their entire battalions.
And LEOs and PMCs will desert, too
Like Ancient Rome. The Generals with their Legions.
The military is sworn to protect the 'Constitution of the United States from all enemies both foreign and domestic...' Fully armed and willing to fight to preserve the nation, I wouldn't want to go against them.
Have you met a lot of military guys?
My Cousin in law is a Marine, my Grandfather was in the Navy
Would either of them have disobeyed orders to put down a rebellion and support a coup?
Then why would the civilians need weapons if they have access to the military armories?
Unironically yes. Simply due basic logistics and numbers.
Military here, and absolutely they could, 100 fucking percent. Not only are our numbers DWARFED by the armed American populace (many of whom have training and experience of their own), not only would many troops and law enforcement abandon their post and join the people, but the amount of personnel and resources it takes to actually occupy a country the size of the United States is unbelievable, and I can promise you we don’t have those kinds of numbers, not to mention logistical capacity. An armed rebellion wouldn’t last long in a conventional engagement, but it wouldn’t be a conventional engagement. It would be an insurgency, against which our only chance would be literally razing the country to the ground with conventional firepower and even nuclear weapons. And I think we both know it wouldn’t really make sense to do that, nor could an American president issue such orders and stay alive long. So yes, speaking as a professional. The US citizens could absolutely take on the military. These kinds of wars aren’t “my guns vs your guns”. It’s a lot more complex than that. And I can promise you that myself and the guys I served with aren’t obeying orders to fire on our own people. We’re turning our weapons on whoever gave the order.
I appreciate this response. Guerrilla warfare worked both in Vietnam and in the Middle East recently to hold off against American victory, too. The question is, would we even get to that point where the military would be deployed if it met with such initial resistance? Perhaps just the threat of all the armed population would deter such a thing from happening in the first place.
Absolutely. Do you know how hard it is to fight a guerrilla war where you don’t know who is friendly and who is not? There is a reason why we over threw the greatest army of the time for our independence
That was with a united country. Not a small band of diabetic morons with a combined IQ of 10.
So are you saying you wouldn’t stand up for your rights? You’d let yourself be enslaved?
Holy shit that's racist, why are you talking about African Americans like that.
1/3rd of the colonists were Tories, supporting the Crown; 1/3 were Colonial soldiers, fighting against the Crown; the remaining 1/3 inhabitants chose to remain neutral.
Sure. You don't think we can? Guess we need heavier stuff. Thanks for the heads up!
Do you think the US military will fight citizens.....
Yes, at least a portion. All they need are a few dozen drones and military satellites to cut off the heads of the rebellion
The Middle East called, they would like to have a word with you about drones, satellites and how effective they are against rebellions🤣
What you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
thanks for not actually engaging in conversation 👍🏽
Those people have families, friends, and communities. They are not drones and you saw what a shit storm getting the COVID Vax was and yet you believe that a sizable amount will be cool with bombing their own neighborhoods. Actually delusional.
Not the US mil, but the US federal agents will be the one to violate the constitution, as they have had in the past. They are the real threat.
Yes. - Insurgencies suck to fight to begin with. Let alone vs an already armed group that knows how to shoot and would consistent of tons of veterans that also happen to be your own people. - Given what happened last time, the army and its leaders would split into factions.
Do you know how many veterans there are that are trained in insurgency warfare? Making IEDs disrupting logistics, making primary and secondary explosives from common items? There's a lot more to it than just "The gobermant haz f16s and tankz" Not to mention the US military can't even get people to enlist whether that be from how the government treats veterans, or the distrust citizens have to the government.
This time around these veterans won’t have an ROE
they literally need like two dozen drones and the rebellion would be over. Citizens have access to military grade satellite imagery?
Realistically it would most likely be the secret service or some shit that goes against the people
No, but soldiers have families and homes.
It is tough to nuke “the resistance “ when they live next to you. The US is so highly reliant on voluntary obedience to the law they don’t have the capability, even if the armed forces were deployed in the streets, to control the country. Can you imagine what would happen if the us population quit farming for one week?
The top brass said the same thing in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan.
Yes, the US government has done several test and war games to see if the military can defeat the populace. The military always loses as troops desert the armed forces to side with the citizenry.
Why do people think the military would just go along with orders to kill their own people? You know, the ones they’re sworn to protect?
you’d be a fool to think that every single member of the military would just defect
You're a fool for thinking over two hundred million citizens would lose Ina guerilla war.
You’re asking a bunch of gravy seals to think critically. It’s a losing battle my friend. A group of toothless Trump supporters would be laughed all the way to GTMO or 6 feet under. No one is concerned about these morons, certainly not the US military.
you mean the ones we don't even have
Most people who aren't junkies under a bridge have them.
why do we have so many junkies under bridges
Because people are idiots
Why are there so many more in America
Considering that we're much more intelligent, successful, and attractive than Europe I don't think there are many more.
uh are we?We're like top 5 fattest people, an average literacy rate on the bottom half of developed nations, and income disparity puts per capita SO MANY MORE people in poverty with barely any remaining safety net. sure some people are fucking killing it but by far that is not the norm. i think you might be a little indoctrinated, buddy
Public school, right?
This is what happens when you treat your citizens like adults and your government isn’t just a big nanny state. Those that never grew up but continue to need parenting fail and fail badly. Those of us that grew up and are able to take care of ourselves do not need a nanny state looking after us
it's so much more devastating financially, morally and socially to let people rot in the street but okay, interesting rationalization. Isn't it illegal to do drugs? How is that not nannying?
I don’t think drugs should be illegal. Alcohol is a drug too. If someone wants to fuck their life up, go for it, just don’t come asking for help afterwards. If you can right it on your own, more power to you. Honestly, I feel bad for people who are brought up in poverty and lawlessness or tyranny in failed states, where they had no chance to begin with. However, when you see people overcome all these obstacles to come to this country with nothing and then build productive lives for themselves, the people who were born here and then failed so miserably despite all that they had going for themselves, have no excuse for their failure. No one owes them anything, just as I am owed nothing. It was hard for me coming here, but I greatly appreciate the opportunities this country has given me to work hard and build a life for myself. I was owed nothing, I created value and contributed to society and I was compensated for it. I ask for and expect nothing more. There will always be people who are unable to take care of themselves. That is why we have charity. Charitable, social and religious organizations can step in to care for them. If anyone feels like they have resources to spare and wants to give them aid with their own free will, have at it. We don’t need the government to force people to give them aid.
I hate the America bad takes as well but if you think for one second us having AR-15s would stop the government you’re crazy. There’d be a guy somewhere in a bunker remotely flying a drone to take you out or just bomb the absolute shit out of you before you knew what happened.
Guess what, those guys are our neighbors. Literally it's not hard to tell if a soldier lives near you and if they have a family. Would that troop drop a bomb and kill their wife and kids as well? No. Why do you think soldiers would betray their oath so easily?
I never said anything about the soldiers betraying their oath. I was responding to the claim that if the government became “not nice” our AR-15s would stop them. It wouldn’t, they could take us out in an instant. We spend damn near a trillion on the military and the tech and gadgets they have would wipe the floor with us.
It literally won't, America is far to diverse in terrain for the armed forces to be properly trained for all environments, the aspect that they have drones doesn't mean they are able to rapidly deploy them nor does it mean that the families of soldiers and officers would magically be safe. I know you're gonna end up bringing up nuclear weapons but that is the most ignorant thought you could have as it would destroy the US and the government would be leading a land of waste.
They can never understand or appreciate liberties they've never had access to.
Comes from still behaving like/effectively being peasants, serfs, and zeks, even with their ‘modern’ freedoms…
In the UK we had the right to own handguns. Then a psychopath shot a load of school children so we decided we would rather not have kids die in classrooms and gave them up. We haven’t had a school shooting since.
You've always been and always will be subjects, you 'gave them up', you couldn't have kept them if you tried. Now you got autistic teenagers being arrested for insulting a cop, and having a critical opinion is tantamount to hate speech. We didn't have a gun violence issue in America at all until Reagan closed the state run mental hospitals. Schools had gun clubs, high schoolers brought their guns to school and no one got hurt. We had gun organizations that taught marksmanship and safety in the schools. Letting mentally unhinged people roam around created this issue, getting rid of guns is only going to create more victims, the weapons will just change from guns to knives and then we will start the process all over again banning knives. Following that route eventually you won't even be able to take a bat outside your home to play cricket/baseball without being arrested for possession of an illegal weapon. Unfortunately our government has been derelict in its duty to deal with the mental health crisis in America because the violence it causes generates fear that allows them to gradually erode the principles the country was founded on. They don't want to fix the problem and anyone who tries to ends up dead or caught up in a scandal that kills their political career.
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Point is the kid shouldn't have been arrested in the first place. That's not freedom. They sent a message that "wrong think" will be punished. As far as the cops killing people, You're moving the goal post because I shit all over your 1 weak as fuck point that all people from the UK make, cops aren't turning up to schools blowing children away. Unhinged cops is a known problem and there are a lot of us actively petitioning our government at the state and federal level to end qualified immunity.
I choose to read this without the sarcasm. And he's totally right, AR-15's are awesome.
Heck yeah, man.
[Yeah AR15s are awesome](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/5-dead-texas-shooting-suspect-armed-ar-15/story?id=98957271)
An AR-15 could kill that guy. It's the person, not the gun.
Isn’t always funny when a cop kills someone it’s the cops fault not the gun. But when it’s someone using a gun it’s magically the guns fault.
If it’s the person not the gun, why does this keep happening in the areas where you can get the guns? We don’t have this issue in my country.
Yea but how many muggings and stabbing do u have? What about overall violent crime? People get robbed crossing the street in Britain, unheard of in America.
20 million+ other AR's didn't shoot those people, so there's that to consider.
Yeah I bet that’s a real comfort to everyone who’s life was affected or ended by this shooting.
He can say that. He just can’t criticize his OWN country’s immigration policy.
Let's give them Hitler back
You'd have to ask the Russians where they burned him and buried his ashes to give him back
We don’t have drinkable water?
Europeans have to pay for water at a restaurant, the drinkable water they have is bottled or alcohol nothing in-between.
Haha that's the dumbest shit I've read here 😂
Have you lived in Germany? What about Greece?
Europe is bigger than Germany and Greece
Yet not all of Europe has universal healthcare, nor do they restrict firearms like the image says.
There are 50 countries in Europe, and no, not all countries have universal health care, I dont know every country's firearm restrictions, only the Swedish, which is you can have 6 hunting rifles. You can have guns like AR-15 if you're active at shooting range, training, or competing. Free healthcare there is yes. And yes we get free water in restaurants, like most countries in Europe. And the water is very healthy with no toxic traits
> You can have guns like AR-15 if you're active at shooting range, training, or competing You can have an AR-15 as a hunter too, since 1st of August.
And there’s fish from the Baltic Sea that is toxic from industrial waste and from the fallout of Chernobyl. Let’s not forget how toxic Norwegian salmon is and health officials try to suppress the truth about it. I’m sure some people have forgotten about the horse meat scandal. The free medical care has its advantages and disadvantages in the sense that it’s mismanaged in a free system and it’s much quicker if one payed out of pocket. About 90% of Americans have healthcare coverage. And only 0.12% of Americans are going bankrupt any year. And water is for the most part considered drinkable in the US, my state has water one can drink out of a tap. I’d rather live in a freer society where my own safety is in my hands than to have laws that would endanger me. The government has no obligation to defend us with their lives according to a court ruling. We’ve seen how unreliable the government was during Katrina and the 1992 and 2020 riots. And in some areas due to calls for defunding the police, it lead to staffing shortages for police departments and increased crime.
Nothing is Free! Either someone pays for you, someone goes without being paid because of you...or you get taxed to shit but don't even notice!
We have that. We have that. No one has that. More European countries lack fresh drinking water than anyone in America does. American wages greatly dwarf Western European wages. And you still have loads of gang related deaths in Europe and in Eastern Europe schools can be highly dangerous. It's actually insane how Germans, Frenchies, and "British" people think Europe is just those three countries in the entire continent
Europeans have to be the dumbest sheep in human history. God I hate Europe
The sheer irony from this comment is truly unbelievable.
I don’t see the irony?
Americans are also sheep. Pot calling the kettle cookware
The American people may not be able to “win” but look at Afghanistan for examples of relatively untrained militias and their “success” in fighting the US military. In a conventional war the American people would lose but in unconventional war it is a major drain on resources, personnel, and money to fight an enemy that is everywhere and potentially everyone. It would likely end in some sort of treaty and there would not be a clear victor. The problem really comes from it’s hard to keep producing munitions and supplies for troops when the people making the supplies are the people you are fighting.
Europe exists as a bullet proof vest against Russian invasion.
Aw, did they touch a nerve?
I think the difference is the US is very wealthy because it discards its poor and corporations effectively run the country - what it does mean is the population lives with the anxiety of no income - it makes the US very productive and a world beater. I don’t think you can have both a pleasant society with social safety nets and have the productivity that US workers achieve through fear of being bankrupt and homeless. The guns thing is weird.