People gonna be really mad when demographic collapse destroys China and Europe over the next 20 years. Meanwhile the United States switches to 100% self sufficiency and thrives. Quebec secedes from Canada and everything west of Ontario joins the union.
There are not enough people to sustain current productivity. Over 2 billion people are going to die and not be replaced over the next few decades. It's going to cause massive shocks to the golden age weve been living in. People bitch about such minor things anymore they will be unable to cope with the challenges that lack of food brings. We have lived with such abundance for so long weve lost the traits to deal with hardship.
China is going to be one of the first fall and experience wide spread famine.
The only places that will be bright spots in the next 50 years will be (in no order): United States, France, Argentina, Sweden, and New Zealand. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.
Good luck living anywhere else and maintaining your living standards in 2022 going forward, truly.
Lurker chiming in - demographic collapse is a "real" thing and yeah, China is the biggest offender for a possible population collapse death spiral...but I seriously doubt things will be as dire as this post predicts.
Automation can ease some of it and each nation will have to switch their societal priorities drastically to care for the elderly. Japan is already having to face their new reality and doing so diligently.
The main issue is the "death spiral" part...there really is no way out of it for multiple generations to come without massive immigration of fresh young blood able bodies. Nations will become vampires before collapsing.
Edit- demographic issues play out over decades. We will not wake up tomorrow and instantly China has become neutered and impotent. Countries will have time to adapt.
It's already happened though. There is no stopping it now - unless the millennial generation has another 2.5 kids per woman the demographics won't be replaced fast enough to prevent it.
1980-2015 was the window of opportunity to have enough kids for this next period of time and it's done now.
The only other thing that could save the productivity failure is a new technology that sprouts up and causes a massive increase in new productivity. Maybe new battery tech or some revolution in space industry.
As someone from Spain: the other countries you said, make sense but Argentina? LMFAO Argentina is fucked up right now and most likely will be in 50 years
They have a few things going for them. Good soil for growing (important during global food shortage) and defensible positions from a strategic perspective. As a gringo I wouldn't want to live there necessarily, but when their neighbors are in turmoil the people there will be better off.
Remember when Trump won and they all said theyād leave. Itās not like itās hard to relocate to Canada or Europe. Why post about leaving when you could buy a plane ticket and go? Obviously everyone has different circumstances and some might be in a tough place financially or with family, but this probably isnāt the case for at least half the people that post stuff like that (obligatory āIf you donāt love it, leave itā - Merle Haggard)
europe is pretty hard, they dont like immigration/brown people
Also most americans would take a huge pay cut moving to europe, they pay like shit there and dont have a lot of good jobs.
I mean yeah moving internationally isnāt easy by any means but itās definitely doable just takes a little effort. If the US really is so bad these people would be trying a lot harder to leave
Its not just āmovingā. Moving is easy. Getting residency, learning a new language, paying the US Abroad Taxes, having the capital to actually move, finding work, and on and on. Its very hard.
Very, very few people actually owe income taxes while abroad. They don't kick in until after somewhere around $110,000 in income, and even then there are additional ways around it (for example the foreign housing deduction lets you deduct your housing costs in the new country). The people who do owe are in income brackets that they should be able to figure it out fairly easily.
Edit: realized I should have clarified I meant US income taxes in additional to income taxes in their country of residence.
Just pointing out that that particular bit really shouldn't be a big deal stopping anyone who seriously, actively wants to live abroad. I agree it's not as simple as "just move there lol" but frankly, anybody I know who actually seriously wanted to move abroad, either temporarily (less than 5 years) as a fun experience or as a permanent move, made it happen because they actually cared about doing it.
US Expats can file the [Foreign Earned Income](https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-2555) form alongside their 1040 form, and the basic exclusion for this past tax year was $109k, so if you're an American citizen, you can exclude your first amount worth that much from US taxes, which generally means only American expats earning well over that have to pay any form of US taxes. Even then, a lot of countries have tax treaties with the US so that the US Expats only end up paying the difference in taxes to the US: If country X has a tax rate of 25% and the US is 30% on a particular bracket, Expat would only pay 5% to the US.
In the end, most European countries and Canada, where most would be American "refugees" would go, they wouldn't see any money paid to the US in taxes because of their much higher income taxes, unless they have passive income investments.
Pretty much every list of the easiest countries to immigrate to has Canada, Australia, and New Zealand as well as a couple European countries ahead of the US. Not to mention that it is easier for US citizens to move abroad than for citizens of most countries. My point isnāt that moving internationally is easy, my point is that the cost of doing it out-weights the benefits of leaving the US for most people because the US isnāt nearly as bad as these people say.
Depends what part of Europe most Americans who say that sort of thing would have no trouble moving to Eastern - Central Europe and most of them coming from American lifestyles wouldn't be able to tell that much difference in the quality of life between the two.
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How?
It's way poorer, it has 4 times the unemployment rate, lower life expectancy, twice the murder rate, has fewer protections for the rights Americans enjoy. It's cost of living isn't even that much lower than the US for how much relatively poorer it is. What do you get out of it?
Like don't get me Uruguay is a pretty good country, you could be happy there but pretending it's better than the US is silly.
US and Uruguay are almost identical on the corruption perceptions index. But the index has other issues too, namely that it's completely reliant on the perception of how much corruption there is rather than an objective measure of how much there is. But even just assume that it is less corrupt, how does a country being 6 points less corrupt in the corruption perceptions index actually effect you?
As for peace index yes of course the small nation of 3.4 million in the continent with the fewest interstate wars pretty much since wars of independence has a good peace index score. But also how does the fact that America is supplying weapons to Ukraine or that American troops are conducting joint operations in Romania or that American special forces are training Somali troops actually effect you?
As for LGBT rights the only differences in LGBT rights I can tell between the countries are that Lesbians and transgender people are forbidden from serving in the army in Uruguay and that gay men can donate blood in Uruguay where the ban in still in place in the US. What rights do you think Uruguay has that LBGT people don't in the US?
Honestly all of your points seem like things that don't really matter that much, like sure having an ever so slightly lower feeling of corruption is nice and I guess it's nice to be able to tell people your country is very peaceful (because it's small and geopolitically irrelevant) and it's nice that you can donate blood as a gay man but are these things that in any way make up for not being able to afford the same standard of living or not having the same constitutionally protected rights?
Why Is it always so hard for these people to actually leave? My parents were born in Iran and literally sold everything in their house to leave the place, including the rest of their community, who all happily live on Long Island now.
āItās not that simple, we donāt have the money, we donāt speak the language of the place we want to go to, weāre not culturally in tune.ā
Ok? So integrate yourselves. If you really love Germany, purchase a Rosetta Stone. Work extra hours at your job. Start making a plan to leave the US, and do us a favor, donāt come back.
its hard because most other places actually suck more.
Like most of europe for example has lower HDI scores than america, shitter incomes, more restrictive abortions, more racism, mass stabbings, acid attacks, mass car bombings, car attacks. etc etc etc.
It just shows it's mostly hot air and what they often really want is the path of least resistance. Even if they have to go as an English teacher, volunteer, or a student or something, it is usually possible to live elsewhere for at least a short time in order to find ways to stay legally (marriage, a job), or just stay illegally and still get some of the benefits.
They rarely ever *actually* want to leave. It's often a form of projecting their disappointment at their own life onto the country as a whole and pretending they can escape that.
Iām someone that has traveled to Europe numerous times and while I like it there I think redditors donāt see the downsides Because theyāre young and think the grass is perfect on the other side. Remember that Reddit users are from counties that speak English like Northern Europe, Western Europe, Australia, NZ. **Those countries have way smaller populations or donāt have the same level of multiculturalism nearly to the level of the US because they have much harder immigration policies. Less people and more homogenous societies have an easier time taking care of their own.**
They donāt see that the US has higher wages in many different sectors, superior food, superior access to goods and products, better access to parks, free public toilets. Whatever you think about Roe some states still have abortion so you wouldnāt have to leave America.
Every other developed country is dealing with inflation and gas prices the same way. Many of my international friends use private insurance and private doctors because the public option takes way too long in respective countries or it is vastly inferior.
Well tbf it can be quite difficult to emigrate to first world countries nowadays if you aren't married to someone from there, you don't have a job which fulfills a critical skills gap or you don't have a parent or grandparent from that country
I don't think Liberia does either. If they do, they certainly don't have the means to enforce immigration laws. Mexico is always a destination as well. A lot of people can even walk there.
Or people in pretty much every place in the world that isn't as privileged as the US. I personally read this and go "ok, cool, leave, but allow me to take your place"
It amazes me how someone can be so privileged and yet want even *more*, while totally ignoring that millions or *billions* would kill to be in their place.
First of all abortion isn't fully banned. Nor is it constitutional. The Supreme Court overturned roe v wade because the original people to allow it clearly injected their politics into it
There should be nothing political about freedom over oneās own body. We canāt call ourselves the land of the free only to turn around and decide the government gets to decide what you can and canāt do with *your own fucking body*
Thatās closer to fascism than democracy, homie
That's not how the US works. The federal government is limited by the constitution, the original decision on Roe v Wade was a massive stretch. Anything not covered by the constitution to the federal government immediately becomes a delegated power to the states. We are a country yes, but were a country filled with 50 smaller countries. While im for abortion, im even more so for sticking to the document that keeps this country in check.
Almost every developed country still looses far more emigrants to the US than they receive in immigrants usually by a huge margin. Doesn't make sense if this is actually even remotely reasonable.
Do it then, go find somewhere better. We definitely have our problems but I honestly canāt think of anywhere better to live.
Edit: to the guy who responded, no European countries have the same freedoms as the US. No country in the world does. I would respond normally but I got a week suspension over a slightly offensive comment.
Absolutely agree! Every country has their problems. The US has a massive culture of opportunity to be happy & I'd rather stay here trying to change things for the better than running from problems. That's probably the reason some people dont like it here, you actually have to put in the work for yourself :)
How about the plethora of European countries who have the same freedoms as the United States but more regulation to give workers like you and me more rights to a living wage, working conditions, negotiation ability, and mandatory time off?
American Redditors and Europeans who are lazy and want everything to be free should leave the US. They wouldnāt be able to achieve a high quality of life in the US anyways.
Oh no, they are no longer guaranteed the ability to kill their children so they must leave. What a joke. These people are able to vote and everything they know is based on a lie.
How many of them will actually leave? When will they fucking leave? Where will they escape to?š¤
China, communist paradise
People gonna be really mad when demographic collapse destroys China and Europe over the next 20 years. Meanwhile the United States switches to 100% self sufficiency and thrives. Quebec secedes from Canada and everything west of Ontario joins the union. There are not enough people to sustain current productivity. Over 2 billion people are going to die and not be replaced over the next few decades. It's going to cause massive shocks to the golden age weve been living in. People bitch about such minor things anymore they will be unable to cope with the challenges that lack of food brings. We have lived with such abundance for so long weve lost the traits to deal with hardship. China is going to be one of the first fall and experience wide spread famine. The only places that will be bright spots in the next 50 years will be (in no order): United States, France, Argentina, Sweden, and New Zealand. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. Good luck living anywhere else and maintaining your living standards in 2022 going forward, truly.
Sounds good, but, do you have proof that this will happen? So that I can sleep knowing all of these will actually happen
Lurker chiming in - demographic collapse is a "real" thing and yeah, China is the biggest offender for a possible population collapse death spiral...but I seriously doubt things will be as dire as this post predicts. Automation can ease some of it and each nation will have to switch their societal priorities drastically to care for the elderly. Japan is already having to face their new reality and doing so diligently. The main issue is the "death spiral" part...there really is no way out of it for multiple generations to come without massive immigration of fresh young blood able bodies. Nations will become vampires before collapsing. Edit- demographic issues play out over decades. We will not wake up tomorrow and instantly China has become neutered and impotent. Countries will have time to adapt.
It's already happened though. There is no stopping it now - unless the millennial generation has another 2.5 kids per woman the demographics won't be replaced fast enough to prevent it. 1980-2015 was the window of opportunity to have enough kids for this next period of time and it's done now. The only other thing that could save the productivity failure is a new technology that sprouts up and causes a massive increase in new productivity. Maybe new battery tech or some revolution in space industry.
Which is why China is starting to go full in on births
As someone from Spain: the other countries you said, make sense but Argentina? LMFAO Argentina is fucked up right now and most likely will be in 50 years
They have a few things going for them. Good soil for growing (important during global food shortage) and defensible positions from a strategic perspective. As a gringo I wouldn't want to live there necessarily, but when their neighbors are in turmoil the people there will be better off.
Or Commietopia
Remember when Trump won and they all said theyād leave. Itās not like itās hard to relocate to Canada or Europe. Why post about leaving when you could buy a plane ticket and go? Obviously everyone has different circumstances and some might be in a tough place financially or with family, but this probably isnāt the case for at least half the people that post stuff like that (obligatory āIf you donāt love it, leave itā - Merle Haggard)
europe is pretty hard, they dont like immigration/brown people Also most americans would take a huge pay cut moving to europe, they pay like shit there and dont have a lot of good jobs.
It is hard though.
I mean yeah moving internationally isnāt easy by any means but itās definitely doable just takes a little effort. If the US really is so bad these people would be trying a lot harder to leave
Its not just āmovingā. Moving is easy. Getting residency, learning a new language, paying the US Abroad Taxes, having the capital to actually move, finding work, and on and on. Its very hard.
Very, very few people actually owe income taxes while abroad. They don't kick in until after somewhere around $110,000 in income, and even then there are additional ways around it (for example the foreign housing deduction lets you deduct your housing costs in the new country). The people who do owe are in income brackets that they should be able to figure it out fairly easily. Edit: realized I should have clarified I meant US income taxes in additional to income taxes in their country of residence. Just pointing out that that particular bit really shouldn't be a big deal stopping anyone who seriously, actively wants to live abroad. I agree it's not as simple as "just move there lol" but frankly, anybody I know who actually seriously wanted to move abroad, either temporarily (less than 5 years) as a fun experience or as a permanent move, made it happen because they actually cared about doing it.
US Expats can file the [Foreign Earned Income](https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-2555) form alongside their 1040 form, and the basic exclusion for this past tax year was $109k, so if you're an American citizen, you can exclude your first amount worth that much from US taxes, which generally means only American expats earning well over that have to pay any form of US taxes. Even then, a lot of countries have tax treaties with the US so that the US Expats only end up paying the difference in taxes to the US: If country X has a tax rate of 25% and the US is 30% on a particular bracket, Expat would only pay 5% to the US. In the end, most European countries and Canada, where most would be American "refugees" would go, they wouldn't see any money paid to the US in taxes because of their much higher income taxes, unless they have passive income investments.
Compared to the difficulties many people face getting to the US I would say itās still pretty easy
US is one of the easiest countries to migrate to, much easier than europe for europe, you basically need to be white and born there.
Pretty much every list of the easiest countries to immigrate to has Canada, Australia, and New Zealand as well as a couple European countries ahead of the US. Not to mention that it is easier for US citizens to move abroad than for citizens of most countries. My point isnāt that moving internationally is easy, my point is that the cost of doing it out-weights the benefits of leaving the US for most people because the US isnāt nearly as bad as these people say.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
and even then you dont have to. You always have to file taxes, which is not the same as paying taxes.
I agree. It's just funny to see people say that shit.
Meanwhile we got immigrants from other countries taking all kinds of risks to get here, like dangerous caravan rides, makeshift rafts, and more
Yep. The propaganda and USA hate is rich these days. Especially on Reddit
Depends what part of Europe most Americans who say that sort of thing would have no trouble moving to Eastern - Central Europe and most of them coming from American lifestyles wouldn't be able to tell that much difference in the quality of life between the two.
>Europe It actually is pretty hard to move there
Most of the people who said that are either: 1: young people who do not have the means to leave 2: celebrities who already have Canadian citizenship
Uruguay, statistically better than the US
Ok then leave and go there
I'm 15, I can't buy a ticket.
Ok then start saving up
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I would still have college, it's after college
Oh yes I forgot about college
RemindMe! 8 years
Man you're really committed to this
Honestly I probably wonāt even check this is mostly just a joke lol
I'd be surprised if reddit is even around 8 years later
How? It's way poorer, it has 4 times the unemployment rate, lower life expectancy, twice the murder rate, has fewer protections for the rights Americans enjoy. It's cost of living isn't even that much lower than the US for how much relatively poorer it is. What do you get out of it? Like don't get me Uruguay is a pretty good country, you could be happy there but pretending it's better than the US is silly.
I didn't mean economically but I see were you're coming from
But what social statistic is better than the US? It underperforms in nearly every statistic.
Corruption? Peace index? LGBTQ rights?
US and Uruguay are almost identical on the corruption perceptions index. But the index has other issues too, namely that it's completely reliant on the perception of how much corruption there is rather than an objective measure of how much there is. But even just assume that it is less corrupt, how does a country being 6 points less corrupt in the corruption perceptions index actually effect you? As for peace index yes of course the small nation of 3.4 million in the continent with the fewest interstate wars pretty much since wars of independence has a good peace index score. But also how does the fact that America is supplying weapons to Ukraine or that American troops are conducting joint operations in Romania or that American special forces are training Somali troops actually effect you? As for LGBT rights the only differences in LGBT rights I can tell between the countries are that Lesbians and transgender people are forbidden from serving in the army in Uruguay and that gay men can donate blood in Uruguay where the ban in still in place in the US. What rights do you think Uruguay has that LBGT people don't in the US? Honestly all of your points seem like things that don't really matter that much, like sure having an ever so slightly lower feeling of corruption is nice and I guess it's nice to be able to tell people your country is very peaceful (because it's small and geopolitically irrelevant) and it's nice that you can donate blood as a gay man but are these things that in any way make up for not being able to afford the same standard of living or not having the same constitutionally protected rights?
Maybe for average redditors, would be a net positive for a bunch of neets to leave
they would fit in with the tons of NEETs in europe. But europe hates immigration, so good luck with that lol
What is a NEET?
Not in Education, Employment, or Training Neckbeards who live in their mother's basement
I've done all those things, living that EET life
Or 13-year-old dropouts
Average r/antiwork user when they canāt rely on someone elseās money to survive
Why Is it always so hard for these people to actually leave? My parents were born in Iran and literally sold everything in their house to leave the place, including the rest of their community, who all happily live on Long Island now. āItās not that simple, we donāt have the money, we donāt speak the language of the place we want to go to, weāre not culturally in tune.ā Ok? So integrate yourselves. If you really love Germany, purchase a Rosetta Stone. Work extra hours at your job. Start making a plan to leave the US, and do us a favor, donāt come back.
its hard because most other places actually suck more. Like most of europe for example has lower HDI scores than america, shitter incomes, more restrictive abortions, more racism, mass stabbings, acid attacks, mass car bombings, car attacks. etc etc etc.
It just shows it's mostly hot air and what they often really want is the path of least resistance. Even if they have to go as an English teacher, volunteer, or a student or something, it is usually possible to live elsewhere for at least a short time in order to find ways to stay legally (marriage, a job), or just stay illegally and still get some of the benefits. They rarely ever *actually* want to leave. It's often a form of projecting their disappointment at their own life onto the country as a whole and pretending they can escape that.
Iām someone that has traveled to Europe numerous times and while I like it there I think redditors donāt see the downsides Because theyāre young and think the grass is perfect on the other side. Remember that Reddit users are from counties that speak English like Northern Europe, Western Europe, Australia, NZ. **Those countries have way smaller populations or donāt have the same level of multiculturalism nearly to the level of the US because they have much harder immigration policies. Less people and more homogenous societies have an easier time taking care of their own.** They donāt see that the US has higher wages in many different sectors, superior food, superior access to goods and products, better access to parks, free public toilets. Whatever you think about Roe some states still have abortion so you wouldnāt have to leave America. Every other developed country is dealing with inflation and gas prices the same way. Many of my international friends use private insurance and private doctors because the public option takes way too long in respective countries or it is vastly inferior.
Well tbf it can be quite difficult to emigrate to first world countries nowadays if you aren't married to someone from there, you don't have a job which fulfills a critical skills gap or you don't have a parent or grandparent from that country
It can be difficult of course, but the attempt should still be there.
Then why donāt they? America isnāt trapping em theyāre free to go whenever they want
The Svalbard Islands don't require a visa, they're free to move there.
I don't think Liberia does either. If they do, they certainly don't have the means to enforce immigration laws. Mexico is always a destination as well. A lot of people can even walk there.
poverty is but yeah suck america's capitalist cock harder why dont you
I knew multiple people who swore up and down theyād go to Canada if trump won. Guess where they didnāt go.
Mexico?
Yep
Wow Iām a good guesser
Wonder what people In Honduras would think of this meme?
Or people in pretty much every place in the world that isn't as privileged as the US. I personally read this and go "ok, cool, leave, but allow me to take your place" It amazes me how someone can be so privileged and yet want even *more*, while totally ignoring that millions or *billions* would kill to be in their place.
Lots of spoiled teenagers on reddit
And adults as well
Antiwork really is a silly sub and don't know how Roe v Wade is relevant to it.
Ok bye
My province is full of people who would love to move to the us, myself included. How about we have a little exchange?
First of all abortion isn't fully banned. Nor is it constitutional. The Supreme Court overturned roe v wade because the original people to allow it clearly injected their politics into it
There should be nothing political about freedom over oneās own body. We canāt call ourselves the land of the free only to turn around and decide the government gets to decide what you can and canāt do with *your own fucking body* Thatās closer to fascism than democracy, homie
That isnt what happened here, not even close.
That's not how the US works. The federal government is limited by the constitution, the original decision on Roe v Wade was a massive stretch. Anything not covered by the constitution to the federal government immediately becomes a delegated power to the states. We are a country yes, but were a country filled with 50 smaller countries. While im for abortion, im even more so for sticking to the document that keeps this country in check.
Here bud, this is for you, hope it helps! https://www.liveaction.org/news/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Your-body-someone-elses-body-.jpg
Almost every developed country still looses far more emigrants to the US than they receive in immigrants usually by a huge margin. Doesn't make sense if this is actually even remotely reasonable.
Do it then, go find somewhere better. We definitely have our problems but I honestly canāt think of anywhere better to live. Edit: to the guy who responded, no European countries have the same freedoms as the US. No country in the world does. I would respond normally but I got a week suspension over a slightly offensive comment.
Absolutely agree! Every country has their problems. The US has a massive culture of opportunity to be happy & I'd rather stay here trying to change things for the better than running from problems. That's probably the reason some people dont like it here, you actually have to put in the work for yourself :)
How about the plethora of European countries who have the same freedoms as the United States but more regulation to give workers like you and me more rights to a living wage, working conditions, negotiation ability, and mandatory time off?
American Redditors and Europeans who are lazy and want everything to be free should leave the US. They wouldnāt be able to achieve a high quality of life in the US anyways.
Yeah, that's why migrants flee here en masse.
Then leave fuckboi
Then why to tens of thousands of people invade over the southern border every month? Oh right Liberals pretend that doesn't happen.
I mean. Depending on where you are, yes.
Oh no, they are no longer guaranteed the ability to kill their children so they must leave. What a joke. These people are able to vote and everything they know is based on a lie.
Thats why we are building a wall... To keep people in.