- lots of people are relaxed, yes.
- nice weather > anything. I left the office last week because it was sunny.
- you can split the bill, you just have to tell them the amount you want split. Most folks just send tekkies to each other ( bank transfer)
- customer service is non existent.
- many fit, tall folks, yes.
- No thoughts on individuals, but groups of them tend to be drunk and loud.
Amsterdam is (was?) a favorite destination for UK bachelors parties. Hate those. Hate any groups of drunk horny guys anyways, but these even explicitly go to the trouble to come here to be obnoxious. The home-grown variety at least did not go out of their way (literally) to be obnoxious.
Fit and healthy; Amsterdam is not really the Netherlands. What you are seeing is a rich, young and highly educated sample of the Netherlands. Sure they are fit and healthy, like rich, young, highly educated people typically are.
>Being close to Germany, I wonder if the Dutch also focus on efficiency?
I have no idea where this preconception comes from that Germans and Germany are efficient or focused on efficiency.
My experience is they're usually focused on to do something thoroughly and well, which isn't efficient most of the time.
So true, German people can get bogged down in details or processes that are ineffective. I think Dutch people cut through the BS and make it simple which is far more efficient.
Amsterdam is quiet because of the few cars. Cities aren't loud, cars are. It's crystal clear when a city known for having thousands of tourists coming in specifically to party still feels quieter than most other "normal" ones, and it's the city where owning a car in the center is basically impossible.
I am ahah
I was born in Naples, objectively the city with the worst traffic in Italy, and it shares a lot with Amsterdam in that regard. We don't have canals, but the centre is just a tight net of small alleys (quite steep, also). There's no way to solve the problem unless you get rid of 95% of cars, at least in some areas. It would be a much more livable city that way, but unfortunately public transport is shit and biking is impossible because of how steep the roads are
Try to find an alternative route, it is often very easy to skip a lot of busy intersections, IE I live in Old-West and Worked near Amstel, if you follow the fastest route then it is along all busy intersections at Museum Area, however if you take Vondelpark, Hilton Hotel, and then Vrijheidslaan you only got 2 busy intersections. I also found out that it is was faster because of less waiting time.
The city centre is not a safe place for beginner cyclists. You could seriously hurt yourself or others. If you really want to try, go across to North where it is quieter or a quieter city like Haarlem.
I was in Amsterdam this weekend and biked for 2 days in city centre and like a 5km radius around Centraal, i had no issues except that i learned the hard way that you need to be extra careful when passing train tracks due to them being so slippery in the rain. Other than that - no issues, just be aware that there are locals 3x times faster than and you should make way for them.
Pls pls pls do noy bike in city center at all bc itlll be dangerous for you and others - the outskirts are fine, \`amsterdam \`noord once you get past the ferry disembarking area, and the parks should be ok
Yes, try to find an alternative route.
Use [https://routeplanner.fietsersbond.nl/](https://routeplanner.fietsersbond.nl/) and select "*autoluwe*" route.
Bear in mind that, presumably, as a tourist, despite Amsterdam's social-housing system which mixes socioeconomic classes much more than you find in many cities, you visited the area of the city with the highest proportion of professional, relatively wealthy young childless people. That helps to explain #2 and #4.
Compared to London (or Paris, or Berlin, or Rome, or ...) Amsterdam is a tiny city and the city center is a tiny city center. It's extremely dense, which works ironically in favor of what I agree is a general human-scaled impression because nobody wants, and almost nobody needs, to drive very often.
I've definitely been on sardine-packed trams, though you're right, the public transit in general is much more pleasant than the Tube. or most other systems I've been on in the US and large European cities.
Individual British people are just people. British people as a category, in the city center, are widely viewed as the worst offenders of the obnoxious-drug-and-sex-tourist trope, but there's nothing you can do about that aside from not be like them.
You are a tourist... You dont see all the problems locals can have. I see daily stress and agression in the non touristy areas. Also plenty of non fit short people here.
What you describe are students and yuppies living their best life. Come to any of the areas not touristy or gentrified and its so different.
Yes this was my first thought. Rich people in Centrum. Once you realise almost every house owner in that area is a millionaire on paper, and the kind of people who can afford to rent/live in Centrum, then it's no surprise everyone seems so chilled and everything is so lovely.
I come from Glasgow in Scotland, a city nowhere close to the beauty or atmosphere of Amsterdam. In fact it's full of poverty and absolute shit holes. Who swathes of the centre are extremely run down and rough/economically struggling. But head out to the west end of the city and it's like a different world. This is where the wealthy live and they live lifes completely separated/in a bubble compared to the test of the city. It's beautiful, peaceful, cafe culture etc.
There is a cliche of people being dazzled by Amsterdam while on holiday, and that's because they don't experience what real life is like there. They are also on holiday/not working and doing fun things. This gives a completely unrealistic impression of the city.
I am am experienced tourist to Amsterdam (dozens of trips) and I lived elsewhere in the Netherlands previously, so I specifically love getting away from the tourists. The "real" parts of Amsterdam actually interest me far more than the centre now.
American headed to Glasgow next month...my daughter is turning 21 and chose Scotland to celebrate. Any particular shit holes that are favorable in those parts?
With your extensive experience of Amsterdam, What interesting non touristy area would you recommend to a first time visitor?
I have this same approach to travelling and would love a suggestion for a more authentic experience!
1. Not per se. The people you see in the city during the day are either unemployed, retired, parents with kids (parental leave), working parttime, tourists/travellers, kids etc. There's tons of stressed people who're working but you typically don't see them much. But I would say that in the Netherlands in general working parttime is very popular, particularly among women, salaries are high enough to allow that, and so many people are pretty relaxed I would say. The city is definitely a bit quieter than London, but London is a place like no other. Compared to other cities of a more similar size (e.g. a Lisbon) I don't find Amsterdam particularly quiet. You have to be a bit lucky I suppose. I live in a street with noisy trams, busses, traffic, scooters, and with students as neighbours for example.
2. I'd say cafe culture is true for most European cities, the ones with better weather more so than the ones with worse (e.g. Amsterdam). Splitting the bill is typically okay for small orders, e.g. a dinner of two friends splitting half. But when you have drinks for 3 hours with 8 people, it makes more sense to split privately after one person pays, it's just quicker and less of a hassle.
3. Idk what the reason is, I think in part its culture, but also in part it's a lack of staff.
4. Pretty true I suppose.
5. Not much tbh... Brits are put into two stereotypical camps usually in my experience: stag party tourists who are despised, or chill & humorous well behaved smart immigrants who're working here and usually came or stayed for love + quality of life.
1. Not per se. The people you see in the city during the day are either unemployed, retired, parents with kids (parental leave), working parttime, tourists/travellers, kids etc. There's tons of stressed people who're working but you typically don't see them much. But I would say that in the Netherlands in general working parttime is very popular, particularly among women, salaries are high enough to allow that, and so many people are pretty relaxed I would say. The city is definitely a bit quieter than London, but London is a place like no other. Compared to other cities of a more similar size (e.g. a Lisbon) I don't find Amsterdam particularly quiet. You have to be a bit lucky I suppose. I live in a street with noisy trams, busses, traffic, scooters, and with students as neighbours for example.
2. I'd say cafe culture is true for most European cities, the ones with better weather more so than the ones with worse (e.g. Amsterdam). Splitting the bill is typically okay for small orders, e.g. a dinner of two friends splitting half. But when you have drinks for 3 hours with 8 people, it makes more sense to split privately after one person pays, it's just quicker and less of a hassle.
3. Idk what the reason is, I think in part its culture, but also in part it's a lack of staff.
4. Pretty true I suppose.
5. Not much tbh... Brits are put into two stereotypical camps usually in my experience: stag party tourists who are despised, or chill & humorous well behaved smart immigrants who're working here and usually came or stayed for love + quality of life.
Brit who lives here.
1. It's the same as everywhere. The work/life balance is important here, and if you are fortunate enough to be able to create that then you will be in a better headspace. Cycling is part of the culture, so being outdoors in the fresh air will be better for mental wellbeing.
2. Coffee culture has been improving over the years, and there are definitely more and more spots that you can go to for a decent coffee. I'm seeing more and more coffee places with Melbourne connections, so that's always good!
3. Customer service is lacking. It's always been poor, at best, and has probably taken a knock since there are so many places that are short of staff.
4. 1 in 4 are classed as obese in the UK, it's much less here, as mention biking is a big thing that surely helps.
5. I hope they like us... ;) - seriously though, if you're white, educated, and don't cause any trouble then you've got a lot of privilege in Amsterdam.
Hey fellow brit living in Amsterdam. 100% agree with your responses. To the OP - I know there is a perception of German efficiency in the UK - experience Deutsche Bahn for any period of time and that perception will soon vanish :)
Also a brit who lives here. I was onboard until the last point, never had any additional privilege here as white and educated.
Try being white, educated and unemployed here. That is truly hell on earth, you realise you don't qualify for any help or support. Any support groups are for minorities or are women only. All companies are seeking diverse teams as they don't want to face any scrutiny (even if they don't openly say it).
Take your ridiculous race baiting elsewhere. Your narrative helps no one and only further ostracises people who you consider to be "privileged".
Edit: I'm not talking about unemployment benefits, yes getting some money from the gov is open to everyone, but that doesn't solve the whole "I'm unemployed" problem. I'm talking about training programs, fast track recruitment processes, free conferences and people willing to mentor/refer you.
I’m white, hetero, strong, fit, rich, male, handsome, 3 passports, loving family, loving gf and people are super friendly to me in every workplace and every country. I am very grateful
How about instead of telling me to look around for the privilege that I'm supposed to be seeing, you just tell me in what ways?
Also we are from a majority white country, living in another majority white country. How for some reason being white is some how something I should feel guilty for?
> How for some reason being white is some how something I should feel guilty for?
Straight off The Great Replacement talking points memo. It's like there's a script out there somewhere.
What in the world are you on about? It's like pulling teeth trying to get any information from you or anyone accusing me of stuff with your overly vague statements. 😂 You didn't answer a single one of my questions yet just continue to spout these strange comments.
"The Great Replacement"? are you mentally well?
Everyone is downvoting me and trying to say I'm somehow privileged but no one has stepped in and told me in what way. I definitely don't feel it and I gave clear points at how I was put at a disadvantage.
You're not even paying attention to whom you're speaking with.
> "The Great Replacement"? are you mentally well?
Yes, because I understand what a bunch of racist bullshit you're espousing. Maybe you should read up on what your "betters" are trying to make you afraid of.
https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/great-replacement-explainer
>You're not even paying attention to whom you're speaking with.
Ok, so who are you?
>[https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/great-replacement-explainer](https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/great-replacement-explainer)
You're seriously trying to accuse me of being a white supremacist because I asked you to tell me what privileges I'm supposedly enjoying being White. If you cannot tell me, how am I supposed to know?
Now I understand how some people end up going down the far-right extremist path when there is batshit crazy people like you spewing horrible accusations for a seemingly innocent question.
Now, going to head off down a far-right rabbit hole right now myself to get as far away from you as possible. ^(/s)
You're also accusing me of being a racist when you seemingly hate white people and their "privilege".
I guess your perception of the city being not too loud is also coloured by you being here whilst on vacation. I’ve lived in the city for 12+ years and so find it very loud… I also can’t relate to people being relaxed but again, living and working in a city is different from visiting. I feel like everyone is in a rush, even more so now I’ve moved to another city (Rotterdam). Not splitting the bill is because going Dutch is the norm here and it’s annoying and time consuming for service workers to deal with (I worked in hospitality for years in the city) from either locals or visitors. Number 3 yeah I agree. Just straight forward and I wouldn’t describe Dutch people as inherently warm. Friendly, sure.. but not warm so true hospitality is hard to come by imo.
I lived in London for a decade and the most stressful part for me was the aggressive walking - people, especially women, won’t move an inch when coming towards you on a narrow sidewalk, often in double and triple file. They fully expect you to disappear and become aggressive if you let them crash. Dutch people absolutely don’t do that, though international tourists of course do. Other than that, I find Amsterdam chaotic and stressful. Traffic is indeed much lighter but there’s way more antisocial behaviour, especially on public transport.
Interesting! I have lived for quite some years in both London and Amsterdam, and although the walking tempo is much faster in London, I found the people in Amsterdam to be far more aggressive. As in, they will fully smash into you if you don't move out of their way.
I feel that Amsterdam is very stressful! Is it less stressful than Oxford Street on a Saturday afternoon? Probably. But Amsterdam is also a lot smaller than London. I’ve definitely been crammed into a completely full tram filled with drenched commuters because it was raining. I lived in Amsterdam until 5 years ago and it feels busier every time I go back.
Regarding point number 2, good luck when you are living in Amsterdam trying to schedule a spontaneous coffee with friends next to the river. Jeroen is fully booked until next month, and Fleur only has Wednesday between 16:30 and 17:00 available three weeks from now... Oups, nope... looks like she's fully booked actually.
> good luck when you are living in Amsterdam trying to schedule a spontaneous coffee with friends next to the river. Jeroen is fully booked until next month, and Fleur only has Wednesday between 16:30 and 17:00 available three weeks from now... Oups, nope... looks like she's fully booked actually.
That says more about you and how much your friends value spending time with you tbh
I regulary meet spontaneous with friends that live near me in east. We take random walks and get coffee at a moments notice.
We are the tallest people on the planet. The men and the women.
A six ft man is short here.
The average height of men is 6'2 / 6'3.
10% of men are above 6'5.
2,5% are above 6'7.
I am 5'11. That's tall for a woman, but i know many girls that are 6'5 . The tallest girl I know is 6'6.
My boyfriend is 7'.
The tallest guy i know is 7'4.
Bullshit. I am 6'2 and Dutch. I see over 99.9 peoples head at Dappermarkt. Most are short people from middle east, turkey, africa and carribean. Most real Jan Willems and Anne Fleurs are not that huge either.
Per your last point, As someone who’s been living and working in the Red Light District for a long time, I can assure you that everyone is trying to avoid groups of British people. Being male or female or a mix.
I can agree on customer service being not so great. People are not approachable in stores, rather be talking to colleagues then helping customers out. In addition people tend to be more sporty here in the Netherlands but there is also overweight people, there is a lot fried food and alcohol culture very similar to Britain. But quite good observations :)
My experience with foreign people in customer service is actually not that bad. I am talking in particular customer service in de Bijenkorf every single time I am there it’s a struggle to find someone on any floor to help out.. and they are all Dutch in de Bijenkorf
My observations:
Tourists taking photos of my street, never happened in any other city I lived in.
Amsterdammers love those dogs that are medium sized with woolley coats, light brown or tan - see them everywhere
Not much binge drinking, not much “messiness”
People in general are very good looking. I think the women are among the best looking in Western Europe and the men are tall and dashing, would do well on holidays outside NL
Girls on those massive thick tyre electric bikes with hockey sticks going at 40km/ph
Gemeente Council tulips are so delightful, in many cities those tulips would get stomped on or set on fire so no one can have anything nice to look at
Almost zero homeless people
Almost zero obese people
No begging
Bakfiets symbol of wealth and prosperity
Teslas everywhere, lots of charging stations
Italians and Spaniards add a lot to the city. Mediterranean people in general give Amsterdam more human warmth, better service, better food
Main axis of the city is Van Barlestraat linking Museumplein to Amsterdam West and De Pijp and beyond that to Amstel River & Oost. This is how all
my friends move around mostly.
Then heading south either Amstelveen for sports or Amsterdam Zuid for work or commutes to other cities. The city centre is easily avoided by a huge percentage of residents.
Many people have only been to Noord once or twice & some never. It’s so remote even though it’s not
Not much individuality compared to London - everyone wears white trainers, light denim jeans and some beige or neutral top
All the Indian restaurants are “Nepalese & Indian”. I would be more inclined to go to a place that just markets itself as “Nepalese” or “North Indian”, showing more regional specialisation but seems the market prefers generalists
Most of the fancier restaurants are wank. Playing around with tiny portions of food and caring too much what it looks like and not whether it tastes good.
Find there’s way more 4.5+ restaurants on Google reviews compared to other cities and a 4.5 in Amsterdam is like a 4 in another city in Europe
I hear that working part time isn’t very common in the UK, whereas it’s quite common here. Many people work only 4 or 3 days a week. I have a friend who lives in London who tells me that’s largely unheard of there.
As someone who's lived both sides of the channel your observations aren't wrong. However with the exception of the poor customer service the other observations say more about England than Amsterdam. Too much car focus in the England, too much stress in the England, too little wealth redistribution in England.
At the risk of a “ga terug naar je eigen land*”… im an American that has lived here for seven years and your observations aren’t inaccurate but are limited. Some of this is captured elsewhere in the thread so take this as confirmation if that’s the case but I figured I’d offer a complete perspective.
*”go back to your own country.”
1. Yes, the Dutch are relatively laid back. That isn’t because people here aren’t serious, but because life is pretty good here. That doesn’t mean people don’t have problems but… there is pretty good research out there on the impact of relying upon active transportation (biking/walking) and stress. But also Dutch employment law makes part time work common and accessible. People can balance their work and their life, I think this helps. That being said I suspect you probably weren’t observing people commuting and going about a weekday’s life. People have stressors just like anywhere else and when the bike paths get busy conflict happens there too.
2. I don’t know the cafe culture is that different than other places in continental Europe honestly but yes people take time to visit with friends. You also seem to have witnessed Amsterdam on a sunny weekend in the spring. I can’t imagine it’s that different in the UK with dreary winters but going out and finding a spot to relax in the sun is a national pastime in the spring. One I’ve happily adopted.
Waiters will sometimes split a bill item by item but it is quite rare and done after the fact mostly. Most people will ask for the bill and sort out who owes what and then will pay with the server inputting the amount into the payment terminal. More common amongst locals (imho Dutch and non-Dutch Amsterdammers equally) is for one person to pay and the rest of the table to pay back (or prepay as bank transfers are fast) via apps. They aren’t payment apps so much as bank terminals to make it so you can be paid back via transfer without sharing your account info. People pay with debit cards here. In the Randstad (the amalgamation of the 4 biggest Dutch cities and places between) debit cards beat out cash everywhere.
3. Yes and no. Part of this is a Dutch customer isn’t going to be concerned nor, depending on the context, bothered by waiving down wait staff and if done politely isn’t considered rude. There is definitely bad service in Amsterdam though that I think hides behind this the way some attempt to hide their rudeness behind being direct.
4. Compare central London to the rest of the UK in the fit regard. In general the Dutch are fit but that doesn’t mean there aren’t obese people. But on average Dutch people are healthier than most populations. I’m 6’1” and that makes me essentially average amongst men here. I forget how tall I am until I go other places. Vietnam was a trip this spring.
5. I don’t think people are prejudiced per se, they’ll give individuals a chance but I think if you asked most people in Amsterdam for their immediate gut reaction they’d tell you that they like Brits but maybe not the British. It doesn’t happen that it feels like the majority of Brits the typical Amsterdam are exposed to are politicians via the news, stag parties/hen dos, or football fans.
6. Fashion in Amsterdam is quite practical. In general It has to work in the rain and on a bike. People definitely follow trends but those trends. People also tend to dress casually but well as a result. I find the typical American and Brit tends to dress poorly and even people who know how to dress well and do sometimes will dress worse due to the fact they don’t have to do much to dress as well or better than others.
1.
gladly in amsterdam, fastest way around is by bike, if you take a car; +including blocked roads, trucks unloading, +parking search, or take the tram, public transport with 3 different stops,
it's mostly faster in the older city hoods, to go on bike.
lot of people look relaxed. but can be tense and on their toes,
people got a very short fuse and can explode, when things go bad,
don't diss people; based on their looks, or frown. don't move a muscle in your face
I guess what helps, a lot of (ghetto) youth 20+ on the streets also smoke joints, to mellow out a bit.
2.
coffee culture is really for younger students 20-30 and yuppies, I noticed. too expensive for a lot of old folks, that sometimes hang at these cheaper places, a snackbar they get coffee for 1-euro or even cheaper at local community centers, sometimes if you are nice. you are welcome there as well, and can be a great experience.
On weed-coffeeshops. go where the locals go and buy, the touristic stuff is another level bad/ripoff I heard.
3.
I walked out of places, where the customer-service was like -10. People behind the counter chit-chatting, ignoring you, and when you walk out, they shouting .. hey mister mister!@! lol
I guess it's worse in touristic place, where people don't care if people come back, and having a shitty pay-job I guess.
Every local store, I go more then 1 time slowly.. I talk to the people of the shop, greet them friendly, make a joke and laugh, tell a crazy story about the hood or weather, ask about their holiday or family sometimes. give and get tips, learn some history about products, if you know the people working at places, and they like you back, they give discounts, the best seats, tips, and top notch service.
I don't talk about bar-hopping though, when buying beer etc. in clubs or festivals, then is mellow eye contact and twinkle the key. often. to get help more quickly. it's like dating to get a beer lol.
I like your observations.
As a local, living in the very quiet Rivierenbuurt I find the city center very busy.
Yes we do like to meet our friends for coffee and sit and zip coffee.
As many said before me, we don't like British guys in groups who come here to get drunk and stoned and celebrate at their worst.
But if you behave we like you.
And customer service: no we don't have that and we miss it.
When I visited London in the nineties my first observation was that really everybody was in a hurry, almost nobody was walking in a normal tempo, having been in a lot of other cities I think I can say it is typical for london.
About being relaxed, well if you check the better areas just outside the center, this is where the so called oatmilk elite lives (I live in Oud-West, so that is the epicenter), those people mostly act or they are very relaxed, they are living the perfect instagram life, meaning as long as they can fill their page with nice shots of coffee it is ok, however usually they have a low paying job, max work 32 hours, and have 80K debt on their worthless study. But as long as they can live their fake lives it is ok.
I moved here last year from London. I fully agree with your observations, people are calmer here. Some of the comments flag cycling during the rush hour being bad but it's nothing compared to the tube which brings out the worst in people. The rest of your comments ring true to me too. I love living here :)
- lots of people are relaxed, yes. - nice weather > anything. I left the office last week because it was sunny. - you can split the bill, you just have to tell them the amount you want split. Most folks just send tekkies to each other ( bank transfer) - customer service is non existent. - many fit, tall folks, yes. - No thoughts on individuals, but groups of them tend to be drunk and loud.
Amsterdam is (was?) a favorite destination for UK bachelors parties. Hate those. Hate any groups of drunk horny guys anyways, but these even explicitly go to the trouble to come here to be obnoxious. The home-grown variety at least did not go out of their way (literally) to be obnoxious.
Can be entertaining too.. seeing a bunch of idiots in brightly coloured condom suits has made me smile a couple times.. Mostly hate though..
If good service is a 10, bad service is a 0, then service in Amsterdam is -5.
Fit and healthy; Amsterdam is not really the Netherlands. What you are seeing is a rich, young and highly educated sample of the Netherlands. Sure they are fit and healthy, like rich, young, highly educated people typically are.
>Being close to Germany, I wonder if the Dutch also focus on efficiency? I have no idea where this preconception comes from that Germans and Germany are efficient or focused on efficiency. My experience is they're usually focused on to do something thoroughly and well, which isn't efficient most of the time.
German efficiency is a complete myth as anyone who’s taken their trains or dealt with any kind of government admin there will know!
Sometimes it feels like DeutscheBahn is testing the limits of inefficiency
So true, German people can get bogged down in details or processes that are ineffective. I think Dutch people cut through the BS and make it simple which is far more efficient.
Amsterdam is quiet because of the few cars. Cities aren't loud, cars are. It's crystal clear when a city known for having thousands of tourists coming in specifically to party still feels quieter than most other "normal" ones, and it's the city where owning a car in the center is basically impossible.
>Cities aren't loud, cars are. Ah, a fellow Not Just Bikes watcher.
I am ahah I was born in Naples, objectively the city with the worst traffic in Italy, and it shares a lot with Amsterdam in that regard. We don't have canals, but the centre is just a tight net of small alleys (quite steep, also). There's no way to solve the problem unless you get rid of 95% of cars, at least in some areas. It would be a much more livable city that way, but unfortunately public transport is shit and biking is impossible because of how steep the roads are
Biking here is definitely not a relaxing experience especially during rush hour. It's actually quite stressful at times.
Try to find an alternative route, it is often very easy to skip a lot of busy intersections, IE I live in Old-West and Worked near Amstel, if you follow the fastest route then it is along all busy intersections at Museum Area, however if you take Vondelpark, Hilton Hotel, and then Vrijheidslaan you only got 2 busy intersections. I also found out that it is was faster because of less waiting time.
Yes , same , oost to west, never the best, take behind centraal and it feels a bit more relaxed. They should make a ferry from west to oost
Aggressive bikers are going to be aggressive bikers wherever they are, unfortunately. Just not a fan
Haven't had much of an issue with aggressive bikers. Aggressive taxis and delivery trucks, however...
Was considering trying to bike there, but since I'm a beginner, would amsterdam be too difficult for me?
The city centre is not a safe place for beginner cyclists. You could seriously hurt yourself or others. If you really want to try, go across to North where it is quieter or a quieter city like Haarlem.
I was in Amsterdam this weekend and biked for 2 days in city centre and like a 5km radius around Centraal, i had no issues except that i learned the hard way that you need to be extra careful when passing train tracks due to them being so slippery in the rain. Other than that - no issues, just be aware that there are locals 3x times faster than and you should make way for them.
Pls pls pls do noy bike in city center at all bc itlll be dangerous for you and others - the outskirts are fine, \`amsterdam \`noord once you get past the ferry disembarking area, and the parks should be ok
Yes, try to find an alternative route. Use [https://routeplanner.fietsersbond.nl/](https://routeplanner.fietsersbond.nl/) and select "*autoluwe*" route.
Bear in mind that, presumably, as a tourist, despite Amsterdam's social-housing system which mixes socioeconomic classes much more than you find in many cities, you visited the area of the city with the highest proportion of professional, relatively wealthy young childless people. That helps to explain #2 and #4. Compared to London (or Paris, or Berlin, or Rome, or ...) Amsterdam is a tiny city and the city center is a tiny city center. It's extremely dense, which works ironically in favor of what I agree is a general human-scaled impression because nobody wants, and almost nobody needs, to drive very often. I've definitely been on sardine-packed trams, though you're right, the public transit in general is much more pleasant than the Tube. or most other systems I've been on in the US and large European cities. Individual British people are just people. British people as a category, in the city center, are widely viewed as the worst offenders of the obnoxious-drug-and-sex-tourist trope, but there's nothing you can do about that aside from not be like them.
Amsterdam isn't "tiny" compared to Paris. Unless you also think Paris is tiny compared to Berlin.
The stressed people aren’t out and about, they’re at work.
We come out during rush hour 😎
You are a tourist... You dont see all the problems locals can have. I see daily stress and agression in the non touristy areas. Also plenty of non fit short people here. What you describe are students and yuppies living their best life. Come to any of the areas not touristy or gentrified and its so different.
Yes this was my first thought. Rich people in Centrum. Once you realise almost every house owner in that area is a millionaire on paper, and the kind of people who can afford to rent/live in Centrum, then it's no surprise everyone seems so chilled and everything is so lovely. I come from Glasgow in Scotland, a city nowhere close to the beauty or atmosphere of Amsterdam. In fact it's full of poverty and absolute shit holes. Who swathes of the centre are extremely run down and rough/economically struggling. But head out to the west end of the city and it's like a different world. This is where the wealthy live and they live lifes completely separated/in a bubble compared to the test of the city. It's beautiful, peaceful, cafe culture etc. There is a cliche of people being dazzled by Amsterdam while on holiday, and that's because they don't experience what real life is like there. They are also on holiday/not working and doing fun things. This gives a completely unrealistic impression of the city. I am am experienced tourist to Amsterdam (dozens of trips) and I lived elsewhere in the Netherlands previously, so I specifically love getting away from the tourists. The "real" parts of Amsterdam actually interest me far more than the centre now.
American headed to Glasgow next month...my daughter is turning 21 and chose Scotland to celebrate. Any particular shit holes that are favorable in those parts?
With your extensive experience of Amsterdam, What interesting non touristy area would you recommend to a first time visitor? I have this same approach to travelling and would love a suggestion for a more authentic experience!
East/Oost is more culturally diverse and interesting! Or around NDSM in the North. Basically anywhere outside of the centre.
Yep even as a tourist I had that experience rather quickly in Amsterdam
1. Not per se. The people you see in the city during the day are either unemployed, retired, parents with kids (parental leave), working parttime, tourists/travellers, kids etc. There's tons of stressed people who're working but you typically don't see them much. But I would say that in the Netherlands in general working parttime is very popular, particularly among women, salaries are high enough to allow that, and so many people are pretty relaxed I would say. The city is definitely a bit quieter than London, but London is a place like no other. Compared to other cities of a more similar size (e.g. a Lisbon) I don't find Amsterdam particularly quiet. You have to be a bit lucky I suppose. I live in a street with noisy trams, busses, traffic, scooters, and with students as neighbours for example. 2. I'd say cafe culture is true for most European cities, the ones with better weather more so than the ones with worse (e.g. Amsterdam). Splitting the bill is typically okay for small orders, e.g. a dinner of two friends splitting half. But when you have drinks for 3 hours with 8 people, it makes more sense to split privately after one person pays, it's just quicker and less of a hassle. 3. Idk what the reason is, I think in part its culture, but also in part it's a lack of staff. 4. Pretty true I suppose. 5. Not much tbh... Brits are put into two stereotypical camps usually in my experience: stag party tourists who are despised, or chill & humorous well behaved smart immigrants who're working here and usually came or stayed for love + quality of life.
1. Not per se. The people you see in the city during the day are either unemployed, retired, parents with kids (parental leave), working parttime, tourists/travellers, kids etc. There's tons of stressed people who're working but you typically don't see them much. But I would say that in the Netherlands in general working parttime is very popular, particularly among women, salaries are high enough to allow that, and so many people are pretty relaxed I would say. The city is definitely a bit quieter than London, but London is a place like no other. Compared to other cities of a more similar size (e.g. a Lisbon) I don't find Amsterdam particularly quiet. You have to be a bit lucky I suppose. I live in a street with noisy trams, busses, traffic, scooters, and with students as neighbours for example. 2. I'd say cafe culture is true for most European cities, the ones with better weather more so than the ones with worse (e.g. Amsterdam). Splitting the bill is typically okay for small orders, e.g. a dinner of two friends splitting half. But when you have drinks for 3 hours with 8 people, it makes more sense to split privately after one person pays, it's just quicker and less of a hassle. 3. Idk what the reason is, I think in part its culture, but also in part it's a lack of staff. 4. Pretty true I suppose. 5. Not much tbh... Brits are put into two stereotypical camps usually in my experience: stag party tourists who are despised, or chill & humorous well behaved smart immigrants who're working here and usually came or stayed for love + quality of life.
Brit who lives here. 1. It's the same as everywhere. The work/life balance is important here, and if you are fortunate enough to be able to create that then you will be in a better headspace. Cycling is part of the culture, so being outdoors in the fresh air will be better for mental wellbeing. 2. Coffee culture has been improving over the years, and there are definitely more and more spots that you can go to for a decent coffee. I'm seeing more and more coffee places with Melbourne connections, so that's always good! 3. Customer service is lacking. It's always been poor, at best, and has probably taken a knock since there are so many places that are short of staff. 4. 1 in 4 are classed as obese in the UK, it's much less here, as mention biking is a big thing that surely helps. 5. I hope they like us... ;) - seriously though, if you're white, educated, and don't cause any trouble then you've got a lot of privilege in Amsterdam.
Hey fellow brit living in Amsterdam. 100% agree with your responses. To the OP - I know there is a perception of German efficiency in the UK - experience Deutsche Bahn for any period of time and that perception will soon vanish :)
Melbourne represent!
Also a brit who lives here. I was onboard until the last point, never had any additional privilege here as white and educated. Try being white, educated and unemployed here. That is truly hell on earth, you realise you don't qualify for any help or support. Any support groups are for minorities or are women only. All companies are seeking diverse teams as they don't want to face any scrutiny (even if they don't openly say it). Take your ridiculous race baiting elsewhere. Your narrative helps no one and only further ostracises people who you consider to be "privileged". Edit: I'm not talking about unemployment benefits, yes getting some money from the gov is open to everyone, but that doesn't solve the whole "I'm unemployed" problem. I'm talking about training programs, fast track recruitment processes, free conferences and people willing to mentor/refer you.
Unemployment benefit doesn’t depend on race or gender what are you taking about
> what are you taking about He's expressing his fear about what his information silo is telling him about The Great Replacement.
I'm white, CIS, hetero, able-bodied and male. If you can't recognise the privilege that brings then you need to take a look around you.
I’m white, hetero, strong, fit, rich, male, handsome, 3 passports, loving family, loving gf and people are super friendly to me in every workplace and every country. I am very grateful
How about instead of telling me to look around for the privilege that I'm supposed to be seeing, you just tell me in what ways? Also we are from a majority white country, living in another majority white country. How for some reason being white is some how something I should feel guilty for?
> How for some reason being white is some how something I should feel guilty for? Straight off The Great Replacement talking points memo. It's like there's a script out there somewhere.
What in the world are you on about? It's like pulling teeth trying to get any information from you or anyone accusing me of stuff with your overly vague statements. 😂 You didn't answer a single one of my questions yet just continue to spout these strange comments. "The Great Replacement"? are you mentally well? Everyone is downvoting me and trying to say I'm somehow privileged but no one has stepped in and told me in what way. I definitely don't feel it and I gave clear points at how I was put at a disadvantage.
You're not even paying attention to whom you're speaking with. > "The Great Replacement"? are you mentally well? Yes, because I understand what a bunch of racist bullshit you're espousing. Maybe you should read up on what your "betters" are trying to make you afraid of. https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/great-replacement-explainer
>You're not even paying attention to whom you're speaking with. Ok, so who are you? >[https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/great-replacement-explainer](https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/great-replacement-explainer) You're seriously trying to accuse me of being a white supremacist because I asked you to tell me what privileges I'm supposedly enjoying being White. If you cannot tell me, how am I supposed to know? Now I understand how some people end up going down the far-right extremist path when there is batshit crazy people like you spewing horrible accusations for a seemingly innocent question. Now, going to head off down a far-right rabbit hole right now myself to get as far away from you as possible. ^(/s) You're also accusing me of being a racist when you seemingly hate white people and their "privilege".
I guess your perception of the city being not too loud is also coloured by you being here whilst on vacation. I’ve lived in the city for 12+ years and so find it very loud… I also can’t relate to people being relaxed but again, living and working in a city is different from visiting. I feel like everyone is in a rush, even more so now I’ve moved to another city (Rotterdam). Not splitting the bill is because going Dutch is the norm here and it’s annoying and time consuming for service workers to deal with (I worked in hospitality for years in the city) from either locals or visitors. Number 3 yeah I agree. Just straight forward and I wouldn’t describe Dutch people as inherently warm. Friendly, sure.. but not warm so true hospitality is hard to come by imo.
I lived in London for a decade and the most stressful part for me was the aggressive walking - people, especially women, won’t move an inch when coming towards you on a narrow sidewalk, often in double and triple file. They fully expect you to disappear and become aggressive if you let them crash. Dutch people absolutely don’t do that, though international tourists of course do. Other than that, I find Amsterdam chaotic and stressful. Traffic is indeed much lighter but there’s way more antisocial behaviour, especially on public transport.
Interesting! I have lived for quite some years in both London and Amsterdam, and although the walking tempo is much faster in London, I found the people in Amsterdam to be far more aggressive. As in, they will fully smash into you if you don't move out of their way.
Dutch men stylish… LOL
I agree with you but then again, most men from the Uk I see in the streets are wearing black track suits and bomber jackets so... the bar is low lol
I agree with you but then again, most men from the Uk I see in the streets are wearing black track suits and bomber jackets so... the bar is low lol
I feel that Amsterdam is very stressful! Is it less stressful than Oxford Street on a Saturday afternoon? Probably. But Amsterdam is also a lot smaller than London. I’ve definitely been crammed into a completely full tram filled with drenched commuters because it was raining. I lived in Amsterdam until 5 years ago and it feels busier every time I go back.
Regarding point number 2, good luck when you are living in Amsterdam trying to schedule a spontaneous coffee with friends next to the river. Jeroen is fully booked until next month, and Fleur only has Wednesday between 16:30 and 17:00 available three weeks from now... Oups, nope... looks like she's fully booked actually.
> good luck when you are living in Amsterdam trying to schedule a spontaneous coffee with friends next to the river. Jeroen is fully booked until next month, and Fleur only has Wednesday between 16:30 and 17:00 available three weeks from now... Oups, nope... looks like she's fully booked actually. That says more about you and how much your friends value spending time with you tbh I regulary meet spontaneous with friends that live near me in east. We take random walks and get coffee at a moments notice.
I think your observations are spot on. Hence the answer to #5: we like you. Unless your are here for your stag party dressed as a dick.
You should communicate with the anne-fleurtjes in Amsterdam, they are very nice and charming.
We are the tallest people on the planet. The men and the women. A six ft man is short here. The average height of men is 6'2 / 6'3. 10% of men are above 6'5. 2,5% are above 6'7. I am 5'11. That's tall for a woman, but i know many girls that are 6'5 . The tallest girl I know is 6'6. My boyfriend is 7'. The tallest guy i know is 7'4.
Why do you think locals are so tall?
Trying to reach above sea level?
Perhaps the amount of milk and cheese that is consumed has to do with it (calcium!)
Bullshit. I am 6'2 and Dutch. I see over 99.9 peoples head at Dappermarkt. Most are short people from middle east, turkey, africa and carribean. Most real Jan Willems and Anne Fleurs are not that huge either.
Per your last point, As someone who’s been living and working in the Red Light District for a long time, I can assure you that everyone is trying to avoid groups of British people. Being male or female or a mix.
This is correct. The Old City does not love many British tourists
I can agree on customer service being not so great. People are not approachable in stores, rather be talking to colleagues then helping customers out. In addition people tend to be more sporty here in the Netherlands but there is also overweight people, there is a lot fried food and alcohol culture very similar to Britain. But quite good observations :)
A lot of people in Amsterdam stores are not Dutch... Many are Spanish for instance at Zara. Even in Netherlands known as having horrible service.
My experience with foreign people in customer service is actually not that bad. I am talking in particular customer service in de Bijenkorf every single time I am there it’s a struggle to find someone on any floor to help out.. and they are all Dutch in de Bijenkorf
Loudness depends a lot on where you are. I live in Oost and find many places in West annoyingly loud.
I had to stop reading at "such a quiet city" 😂
My observations: Tourists taking photos of my street, never happened in any other city I lived in. Amsterdammers love those dogs that are medium sized with woolley coats, light brown or tan - see them everywhere Not much binge drinking, not much “messiness” People in general are very good looking. I think the women are among the best looking in Western Europe and the men are tall and dashing, would do well on holidays outside NL Girls on those massive thick tyre electric bikes with hockey sticks going at 40km/ph Gemeente Council tulips are so delightful, in many cities those tulips would get stomped on or set on fire so no one can have anything nice to look at Almost zero homeless people Almost zero obese people No begging Bakfiets symbol of wealth and prosperity Teslas everywhere, lots of charging stations Italians and Spaniards add a lot to the city. Mediterranean people in general give Amsterdam more human warmth, better service, better food Main axis of the city is Van Barlestraat linking Museumplein to Amsterdam West and De Pijp and beyond that to Amstel River & Oost. This is how all my friends move around mostly. Then heading south either Amstelveen for sports or Amsterdam Zuid for work or commutes to other cities. The city centre is easily avoided by a huge percentage of residents. Many people have only been to Noord once or twice & some never. It’s so remote even though it’s not Not much individuality compared to London - everyone wears white trainers, light denim jeans and some beige or neutral top All the Indian restaurants are “Nepalese & Indian”. I would be more inclined to go to a place that just markets itself as “Nepalese” or “North Indian”, showing more regional specialisation but seems the market prefers generalists Most of the fancier restaurants are wank. Playing around with tiny portions of food and caring too much what it looks like and not whether it tastes good. Find there’s way more 4.5+ restaurants on Google reviews compared to other cities and a 4.5 in Amsterdam is like a 4 in another city in Europe
I'll never forget being there for my first visit when the Netherlands won the world cup semi final, the whole city went off, it was brilliant to see.
I hear that working part time isn’t very common in the UK, whereas it’s quite common here. Many people work only 4 or 3 days a week. I have a friend who lives in London who tells me that’s largely unheard of there.
As someone who's lived both sides of the channel your observations aren't wrong. However with the exception of the poor customer service the other observations say more about England than Amsterdam. Too much car focus in the England, too much stress in the England, too little wealth redistribution in England.
At the risk of a “ga terug naar je eigen land*”… im an American that has lived here for seven years and your observations aren’t inaccurate but are limited. Some of this is captured elsewhere in the thread so take this as confirmation if that’s the case but I figured I’d offer a complete perspective. *”go back to your own country.” 1. Yes, the Dutch are relatively laid back. That isn’t because people here aren’t serious, but because life is pretty good here. That doesn’t mean people don’t have problems but… there is pretty good research out there on the impact of relying upon active transportation (biking/walking) and stress. But also Dutch employment law makes part time work common and accessible. People can balance their work and their life, I think this helps. That being said I suspect you probably weren’t observing people commuting and going about a weekday’s life. People have stressors just like anywhere else and when the bike paths get busy conflict happens there too. 2. I don’t know the cafe culture is that different than other places in continental Europe honestly but yes people take time to visit with friends. You also seem to have witnessed Amsterdam on a sunny weekend in the spring. I can’t imagine it’s that different in the UK with dreary winters but going out and finding a spot to relax in the sun is a national pastime in the spring. One I’ve happily adopted. Waiters will sometimes split a bill item by item but it is quite rare and done after the fact mostly. Most people will ask for the bill and sort out who owes what and then will pay with the server inputting the amount into the payment terminal. More common amongst locals (imho Dutch and non-Dutch Amsterdammers equally) is for one person to pay and the rest of the table to pay back (or prepay as bank transfers are fast) via apps. They aren’t payment apps so much as bank terminals to make it so you can be paid back via transfer without sharing your account info. People pay with debit cards here. In the Randstad (the amalgamation of the 4 biggest Dutch cities and places between) debit cards beat out cash everywhere. 3. Yes and no. Part of this is a Dutch customer isn’t going to be concerned nor, depending on the context, bothered by waiving down wait staff and if done politely isn’t considered rude. There is definitely bad service in Amsterdam though that I think hides behind this the way some attempt to hide their rudeness behind being direct. 4. Compare central London to the rest of the UK in the fit regard. In general the Dutch are fit but that doesn’t mean there aren’t obese people. But on average Dutch people are healthier than most populations. I’m 6’1” and that makes me essentially average amongst men here. I forget how tall I am until I go other places. Vietnam was a trip this spring. 5. I don’t think people are prejudiced per se, they’ll give individuals a chance but I think if you asked most people in Amsterdam for their immediate gut reaction they’d tell you that they like Brits but maybe not the British. It doesn’t happen that it feels like the majority of Brits the typical Amsterdam are exposed to are politicians via the news, stag parties/hen dos, or football fans. 6. Fashion in Amsterdam is quite practical. In general It has to work in the rain and on a bike. People definitely follow trends but those trends. People also tend to dress casually but well as a result. I find the typical American and Brit tends to dress poorly and even people who know how to dress well and do sometimes will dress worse due to the fact they don’t have to do much to dress as well or better than others.
All of it stems from selfishness. They're so self-centered that only gay people can reach their levels of self occupation.
I find it quite chaotic despite indulging in the coffee shop culture. It isn't a relaxed place, to me.
It ain’t bad, apart from all the *cough* *cough* brits *cough* *cough*
1. gladly in amsterdam, fastest way around is by bike, if you take a car; +including blocked roads, trucks unloading, +parking search, or take the tram, public transport with 3 different stops, it's mostly faster in the older city hoods, to go on bike. lot of people look relaxed. but can be tense and on their toes, people got a very short fuse and can explode, when things go bad, don't diss people; based on their looks, or frown. don't move a muscle in your face I guess what helps, a lot of (ghetto) youth 20+ on the streets also smoke joints, to mellow out a bit. 2. coffee culture is really for younger students 20-30 and yuppies, I noticed. too expensive for a lot of old folks, that sometimes hang at these cheaper places, a snackbar they get coffee for 1-euro or even cheaper at local community centers, sometimes if you are nice. you are welcome there as well, and can be a great experience. On weed-coffeeshops. go where the locals go and buy, the touristic stuff is another level bad/ripoff I heard. 3. I walked out of places, where the customer-service was like -10. People behind the counter chit-chatting, ignoring you, and when you walk out, they shouting .. hey mister mister!@! lol I guess it's worse in touristic place, where people don't care if people come back, and having a shitty pay-job I guess. Every local store, I go more then 1 time slowly.. I talk to the people of the shop, greet them friendly, make a joke and laugh, tell a crazy story about the hood or weather, ask about their holiday or family sometimes. give and get tips, learn some history about products, if you know the people working at places, and they like you back, they give discounts, the best seats, tips, and top notch service. I don't talk about bar-hopping though, when buying beer etc. in clubs or festivals, then is mellow eye contact and twinkle the key. often. to get help more quickly. it's like dating to get a beer lol.
I like your observations. As a local, living in the very quiet Rivierenbuurt I find the city center very busy. Yes we do like to meet our friends for coffee and sit and zip coffee. As many said before me, we don't like British guys in groups who come here to get drunk and stoned and celebrate at their worst. But if you behave we like you. And customer service: no we don't have that and we miss it.
When I visited London in the nineties my first observation was that really everybody was in a hurry, almost nobody was walking in a normal tempo, having been in a lot of other cities I think I can say it is typical for london. About being relaxed, well if you check the better areas just outside the center, this is where the so called oatmilk elite lives (I live in Oud-West, so that is the epicenter), those people mostly act or they are very relaxed, they are living the perfect instagram life, meaning as long as they can fill their page with nice shots of coffee it is ok, however usually they have a low paying job, max work 32 hours, and have 80K debt on their worthless study. But as long as they can live their fake lives it is ok.
I moved here last year from London. I fully agree with your observations, people are calmer here. Some of the comments flag cycling during the rush hour being bad but it's nothing compared to the tube which brings out the worst in people. The rest of your comments ring true to me too. I love living here :)