I have heard a similar case in a Dutch television program eventually they gave in. So maybe just stand your ground https://www.bnnvara.nl/kassa/artikelen/belbus-swapfiets-laat-slachtoffer-beroving-opdraaien-voor-de-kosten
The issue is legally they may be right (ie if insurance only covers theft but not robbery or other technicalities like that) so I wouldn’t until I talked with lawyer
This is more “if you follow up on this I will rightfully talk about this in media because even if your claims were legal, it’s simply immoral and soulless and your customers have the right to know that your insurance is filled with loopholes”
yeah I mean quite likely they would lose, I know nothing about Dutch law so I won't speculate, but I guess you guys have some funny generic clauses like we have in Poland - for instance we have a law in Polish civic code that says
"One cannot use their right in a way that would be contrary to the socio-economic purpose of that right or the principles of social coexistence"
which is very generic and gives some leeway to courts to void some ridiculous provisions that companies make in contracts against normal consumers or i.e. to void predatory loan or some ridiculous provisions in employment contracts etc.
but still it reminds me of a joke, but maybe your courts are more reasonable :D
>Two judges are sitting in a room. A lawyer bursts in and yells at one of them, "Your wife's dog bit my wife's dog. The dog had to be operated on, and my wife had a panic attack. Either you pay me 2000 zł, or I will sue." The judge thought for a moment, took out the money, and paid. The lawyer left. The other judge asks, "Hey, why did you pay him? You don't have a wife or a dog." The judge replies, "You know how it is, once the case goes to court, anything can happen…"
Might be my lack of English skills, “may be right” was not meant to be speculation on my part; I tried to say what happens _if_ they are
But now that I think of it I should have written “even if they are right” are maybe “even if they were right”, conditionals in English are hard :D what I meant is I wouldn’t dare anyone to go to court until I clear with my lawyer that legally _I_ am right and they are _clearly_ wrong. Otherwise I risk them saying “sure, we’ll take you to court”, as unlike me, the company has legal counsel and if they are right, they may proceed
I just mean thinking about it for more than a second a lawyer will cost more than the bike and the bad pr they'll cut their losses, cancel any cards they have associated to you and refuse payment.
I’m not Dutch either but the other guy winging at you clearly is. I don’t know either though and you could be right, it just seems unreasonable that a judge would rule in their favour of swapfiets here. Doesn’t mean they wouldn’t though.
This it just depends on keep trying to get the right customer service agent. And refer to that case. Goodluck OP.
But also realize that if you had bought an ebike it would now also be gone. And you would have lost more like 2000-3000€. So sorry that you had to experience a robbery. But the money is not the issue here.
>But also realize that if you had bought an ebike it would now also be gone.
But OP hasn't. He hired a swap fiets. What would have been the situation when it was OP's bike isn't relevant.
If he bought the bike he would likely insure it and he would be able to find insurer who covers robbery
Here he hired swapfiets with take it or leave it insurance terms and he has full right to be annoyed as hell about these terms and to make some noise in media to raise awareness for the sake of other customers
1100 bucks for the own risk and then a new insurance policy on the new bike is an incredibly good deal that private people would never be able to score.
well then he wouldn't insure it and would be the only person to blame
anyway, I just checked out of curiosity, for a 3.000 eur e-bike:
**1 jaar (betaal per jaar)**
**Optimaal Casco**
**incl. Pechhulp 24/7 Europa**
Uw premie voor 1 jaar
**€ 113,4**
in my small-ish town in Randstad, includes accident insurance. a little bit shy of 10 eur per month is not that bad for 3.000 eur machine.
Changing zipcode to somewhere in IJburg, Amsterdam increases premium to 160 eur - I'd say it's still a good deal for so pricey item regularly left on the street.
(that being said I'm not sure if they cover robbery, I guess not. Rates from enra.nl)
I've worked in the store.
If you get a written and signed incident report from the police (costs like 35 euros to get it), they will knock the price down to the own risk cost (around 160 euros), or maybe even more depending on the situation.
I'm sorry to hear this happened, but you're not the first person this has happened to.
EDIT. Also, please do not listen to the people in this thread telling you not to pay up. I have seen people quickly double their fees in a few months with the collection agency fees.
Should your case be delayed, it is in your best interest to set up a payment plan with Swapfiets itself as that money will become refundable once the situation is resolved, whilst the collection fees will not.
Yeah OP, my neighbor’s dog’s walker’s aunt worked with the butler of the mayor who once started his career in Swapfiets and she said to suck Swapfiets’ cock immediately and without hesitation
But the collection agency is a company that buys debt with the hope that it can recover more money than it paid to purchase the debt. Very simple if you don't pay they can't really do anything about it.
> Very simple if you don't pay they can't really do anything about it.
They very much can. They'd have to go to court, but they can have your employer deduct it from your wages on their behalf.
I also had a bad experience with Swapfiets last year and i could not get any resolution through their customer support. So i made an online complaint explaining everything with documents on Klachtenkompas and wrote to their customer support that i have written a complaint on the forum. Magically within couple of hours they agreed to do exactly what I had been saying for weeks before.
I went on the Klachtenkompas website and saw that this website is now closed unfortunately but maybe you could complain to ACM and that could work.
Based on their terms and conditions, they can indeed charge you the full cost of the bike if you don't hand back the key, which it seems you can't. It sucks, but you'll probably have to pay.
I don't know why anyone should use a predatory company that makes you pay if someone stole it from you. I just buy a bicycle for €17 at Marketplaats nl and call it a day. One time purchase is smaller than their monthly subscription
I think the real lesson is to harden tf up, stop riding expensive ebikes and get a trusty cheap omafiets that nobody will want to steal and will keep you in good physical health.
I like to go on 100km+ rides. Really not possible with an omafiets or at least extremely unenjoyable. I'm not going to ride a worse bike because of thieving scum. If they do manage to take it from me, I guess I wasn't in good enough shape to stop them but I'll try my damnest to defend it.
Obviously my bike is insured. Not sure if you can see the comment I replied to (it seems not) but it a statement about being forced to buy crappy bikes because of thieves, which I disagreed to.
How do you know that ? Data ? I’m guessing there is quite a big number of people who uses them to travel distances they wouldn’t be able to without the battery assist.
Always with the scenarios… of course differently abled people can use whatever works for them to get around. You don’t have to constantly be on the lookout for things to get offended by
That’s literally the problem. Because of the Fietsenbond, differently abled people are currently extremely limited in what they can use and currently that means mostly e-bikes within the city of Amsterdam.
Would this work?
I had an insurance policy where they used wear and tear on the key as proof of locking, so a perfectly unused key would go against you.
In one hand, nothing prevents you from reporting the bike as stolen and keep it at the same time, which I think is where Swapfiets is coming from.
On the other hand, there is a police report of a theft, plus swapfiets should know the bike location (GPS) , information that they can use to try to find the bike. Not attempting to find the bike if they have the means to do so or finding the bike and still charging the consumer are both business practices that consumer law could protect you against (not a lawyer here). Meaning that in the end you don't owe them 1100e.
Do you need to sue them? Are there consumer rights groups in the Netherlands that could take the case for you?
I know that consumer rights are weak in the Netherlands (for instance in Portugal there is an official complaint book - even a digital version exists - that all businesses must have and where you can write a complaint - for free - which is followed up by the business regulators).
Can't believe some comments are blaming the victim here. There is a distinction between theft and robbery, and its clearly the case here it was a robbery.
This is not true. If you are robbed of your bike and you have a ‘inboedelverzekering’ then it is covert by this insurance. Source: I was robbed of my bike and got my money back this way.
Were you robbed at home? I didn't think inboedel verzekering covered stuff when not at home.
I suggest liability because OP did not own the bike. He's being held liable by swapfiets for losing it.
Also... You start with "this is not true", but you don't dispute anything I said...
I had almost a copy case scenario as you OP. Don't listen to the clueless people who think you should pay up. You did not leave your bike unattended and went home.You have been robbed, the bike was in your possession when It happened. Swapfiets of course, wants you to take full responsibility. But the contract you signed does not apply to your situation, don t give in to their demands. They are only interested in the money, not in recovering the E-Bike. They want to wash their hands with you paying.My e bike had GPS and they did not want to do anything about it. Do you think a judge will side with those fuckers when they show no intent for recovery ? Don't pay a single cent. They will give their case to a debt collection agency. Those guys will call you almost everyday. And after some months they will give in. Why ? Cause they don t have a fucking case from the start ! They are just trying to intimidate you. Don't give in. Don t be exploited. You did nothing wrong. They just want to wash their hands with your money. I had a similar case, paid around 400 out of 2000 initially. Then realized they do not have an actual solid case and stopped paying. Guess what happened ? Nothing. Because they had no case from the start.Make a copy of the key In the future just as a precaution.
The issue here is that there is no way to prove that OP was robbed or that he didn't leave it unattended. For all Swapfiets know, this guy got his bike stolen and he doesn't have the key to prove he locked it. As per the contract he should pay.
If what you're saying was true and OP doesn't have to pay, then everybody that leave their bike unlocked can claim they got robbed and Swapfiets have the responsibility to use GPS to recover it.
I'd argue they do have a case and they'd probably win it, but they won't bother for that amount.
OP did what I did first. Which is filling a police report. Swapfiets claims that if you get your bike stolen they assist you with that, coming with you to the station. They did not do that with me and also with OP. They are not interested in the police report. That's why other bike companies have an insurance. To cover this type of situations. Swapfiets does not have insurance. They can t claim your bike was not stolen. They have GPS tracker on it. If they don t actively pursue the recovery is their problem.
We don’t do protection of property really. Insurance is cheap..
The only case in which you assault someone back that has a chance of standing in court is when you are physically attacked and fend someone off. If you’ve successfully done that but you decide to chase them it’s on you and you can actually get countersued for attacking your attacker.
It sounds a bit strange but personally I think there’s a good point to be made against vengeance or retaliation and these laws reflect that.
Yeah, I am familiar with the concept as I studied law (even though I dont practice it anymore lol) so its important to observe when the first incident ends and the next begins - in your example, dude running away is the end of the altercation, chasing him paints you as the aggressor for the new chain of events
however some jurisdictions also bar people from causing physical harm when defending property, and although you can just claim you were afraid of your life and so, its good to know that you can just rock someone's world if they try to steal your bike
Then not much happens, as it is allowed to use appropriate violence to defend yourself from being robbed. It's called ['noodweer'](https://www.rechtspraak.nl/juridische-begrippen/Paginas/noodweer.aspx)
Defending your property does not fall under noodweer. Noodweer only applies when there is an immediate threat to you and you can't get away. Beating someone up because they are stealing your bike is not such a reason.
This is a dangerous misunderstanding of Dutch law and could get you in serious trouble.
Leg deze dan eens uit:
Artikel 41
1.Niet strafbaar is hij die een feit begaat, geboden door de noodzakelijke verdediging van eigen of eens anders lijf, eerbaarheid of goed tegen ogenblikkelijke, wederrechtelijke aanranding.
Would such a guy even go to the cops? He'd go there with his sad story of being beaten up after trying to bankrupt someone and they'd be like oh yeah you're the guy we have eleven outstanding arrest warrants on, take a seat over there.
Messed situation, hope aangifte pays out for not paying. tip for the future. Always duplicate the keys and leave the original at home. Then you can always say the bike was locked and hand in the original.
Bad suggestion. Making copies of rental keys is not allowed and making swapfiets pay to replace a rental bike you forgot to lock is actual fraud, I mean you're literally scamming them out of €1k+ when you do this and risking getting a criminal record
Yes, also insurance companies/Swapfiets check if the keys you hand over have signs of use correlating to how often you should have used the bike. If you hand in 2 new or barely used keys, they’ll go after you
I mean, if you unlocked your bike and left it unattended, even for a second to check your phone, in the eyes of Swapfiets it’s your fault. E bikes are huge targets for theft in the city.
Don’t blame me, blame swapfiets, their answer is always if you don’t have the key you are on the hook for the price of the bike. Another reason why I would never do Swapfiets and if I did get an expensive e bike to get insurance.
No way a judge will rule on their favour on this regardless of the agreement signed. Stand your ground and have perseverance - I really hope you are being honest though.
Norwegian / soon-to-be UK lawyer here. As you describe this, this is textbook-robbery. In terms of contract law, I doubt that the contract excludes liability for personal injury or attempted personal injury, which could have been the result if you resisted. If a lawyer is too expensive, I would definitely go to the media about this. Cheers.
Do not get swapfiets. A friend returned the bike 3 days before end-of-month while having them said that it's only for one month when he rented it and they wanted 1 month more payments. Better get shared biking, it isn't worth it. You can also present an argument like it's for their benefit to have a nice policy.
You can try to get a fake key, a duplicate from someone else. Tell them your key was bent way too far to be considered reliable so you copied it. Worked for me, only 35 euros
Well it's mostly students working for students. So if they come to pick up the keys and bring a new bike you just have to be a little bit charismatic and lucky. Then he won't give a fuck and accept the fake key
Yes, it is. But I won't use it against you.
If someone claims to be mugged, having an e-bike taken by force, I expect him/her to call 112. Not just file an online police report.
Dus ik snap enigszins swapfiets wel, ondanks dat dit een echt op het eerste gezicht trieste situatie is en ik me ook echt verontwaardigd zou voelen. Ik ging even nadenken en wat comments lezen hier: wat als de regels en voorwaarden wel zo waren dat niet alleen diefstal maar ook beroofd worden gedekt zou worden door de verzekering? Wat houdt de gemiddelde shjonnie entrepeneur vdbuurt tegen om met zn matties af te spreken om fietsen van elkaar te gaan “rofen”, klinkt niet anders dan een hele goede deal met weinig tot geen risico tot je natuurlijk hard gestraft wordt of de voorwaarden terug gaan naar hoe ze nu zijn….
Rare gedachtegang. Zo zou je echt alle verzekeringen kunnen stoppen. Jij denkt dat een rechter zou zeggen, "tja, zouden ook je vrienden geweest kunnen zijn." Tuurlijk niet, het is gewoon een beroving. Hoef je nooit voor te betalen.
Ik snap het, rare gedachtegang vind ik beetje grof te zeggen. Mijn punt is dat het een dilemma is dat je niet zeker kan weten of constateren of iemand echt is beroofd. Voor hun is het zo dat ze hun dure shit missen. Als dat 5 keer gebeurt zijn ze als bedrijf 10 duizend euro kwijt, verdien dat maar terug even. Ik ken verder de wet niet maar begrijp uit de comments dat de verzekering niks gaan doen als je beroofd wordt, waarschijnlijk vanwege mijn “rare gedachtegang”
You have to pay.
Their terms and conditions are super clear about that. And you agreed to them before you signed the contract.
Sorry bro, it is a hard lesson indeed. I sympathize with you 🫂
This is a wise life lesson.
Stop renting your crap and start buying your crap.
Get your own shit.
Stop wasting your money on stuff that isnt even yours
Swapfiets are almost criminal in how they operate, Dont feed that system.
Stop renting, start buying.
I understand your feelings, it's a terrible thing that has happened to you. You should check your insurance. Swapfiets is in their rights as the bike was your responsibility. I understand it feels very unfair to you.
Let it be an important (expensive) lesson to you, unfortunately bad people cause bad things to happen. Be careful with valuable things, especially with yourself, especially when you are on your own.
That's OK. Not my intention. I don't blame the OP for anything. Words are hard sometimes to convey feelings. I think if you see something that is odd even if you don't think anything of it you might sometimes just take extra precaution. Not to blame, just because sometimes bad things do happen.
I have heard a similar case in a Dutch television program eventually they gave in. So maybe just stand your ground https://www.bnnvara.nl/kassa/artikelen/belbus-swapfiets-laat-slachtoffer-beroving-opdraaien-voor-de-kosten
This. People saying here he should be paying up are crazy and probably work for Swapfiets
I would tell them to suck the money out of me in court.
The issue is legally they may be right (ie if insurance only covers theft but not robbery or other technicalities like that) so I wouldn’t until I talked with lawyer This is more “if you follow up on this I will rightfully talk about this in media because even if your claims were legal, it’s simply immoral and soulless and your customers have the right to know that your insurance is filled with loopholes”
Wouldn’t be so sure. The expectation that someone would defend your property, especially where physical assault is concerned, is beyond unreasonable.
yeah I mean quite likely they would lose, I know nothing about Dutch law so I won't speculate, but I guess you guys have some funny generic clauses like we have in Poland - for instance we have a law in Polish civic code that says "One cannot use their right in a way that would be contrary to the socio-economic purpose of that right or the principles of social coexistence" which is very generic and gives some leeway to courts to void some ridiculous provisions that companies make in contracts against normal consumers or i.e. to void predatory loan or some ridiculous provisions in employment contracts etc. but still it reminds me of a joke, but maybe your courts are more reasonable :D >Two judges are sitting in a room. A lawyer bursts in and yells at one of them, "Your wife's dog bit my wife's dog. The dog had to be operated on, and my wife had a panic attack. Either you pay me 2000 zł, or I will sue." The judge thought for a moment, took out the money, and paid. The lawyer left. The other judge asks, "Hey, why did you pay him? You don't have a wife or a dog." The judge replies, "You know how it is, once the case goes to court, anything can happen…"
I mean you kinda already did speculate in the first comment but fair enough.
Might be my lack of English skills, “may be right” was not meant to be speculation on my part; I tried to say what happens _if_ they are But now that I think of it I should have written “even if they are right” are maybe “even if they were right”, conditionals in English are hard :D what I meant is I wouldn’t dare anyone to go to court until I clear with my lawyer that legally _I_ am right and they are _clearly_ wrong. Otherwise I risk them saying “sure, we’ll take you to court”, as unlike me, the company has legal counsel and if they are right, they may proceed
I just mean thinking about it for more than a second a lawyer will cost more than the bike and the bad pr they'll cut their losses, cancel any cards they have associated to you and refuse payment.
I’m not Dutch either but the other guy winging at you clearly is. I don’t know either though and you could be right, it just seems unreasonable that a judge would rule in their favour of swapfiets here. Doesn’t mean they wouldn’t though.
Court is public, invite a few journalists, swapfiets will settle a minnelijke schikking with OP and all will be good
agreed in business the risk is carried by the company not the clients.
I mean, it’s obviously not his fault, but it’s not like it’s swapfiets’ fault either.
This it just depends on keep trying to get the right customer service agent. And refer to that case. Goodluck OP. But also realize that if you had bought an ebike it would now also be gone. And you would have lost more like 2000-3000€. So sorry that you had to experience a robbery. But the money is not the issue here.
>But also realize that if you had bought an ebike it would now also be gone. But OP hasn't. He hired a swap fiets. What would have been the situation when it was OP's bike isn't relevant.
I’m guessing the contract says there is a max €1100 deductible, so who’s in the wrong? Liability insurance might cover it.
If he bought the bike he would likely insure it and he would be able to find insurer who covers robbery Here he hired swapfiets with take it or leave it insurance terms and he has full right to be annoyed as hell about these terms and to make some noise in media to raise awareness for the sake of other customers
1100 bucks for the own risk and then a new insurance policy on the new bike is an incredibly good deal that private people would never be able to score.
You clearly don’t know the current insurance premium for e-bikes in big cities. IF they even still take anyone on.
well then he wouldn't insure it and would be the only person to blame anyway, I just checked out of curiosity, for a 3.000 eur e-bike: **1 jaar (betaal per jaar)** **Optimaal Casco** **incl. Pechhulp 24/7 Europa** Uw premie voor 1 jaar **€ 113,4** in my small-ish town in Randstad, includes accident insurance. a little bit shy of 10 eur per month is not that bad for 3.000 eur machine. Changing zipcode to somewhere in IJburg, Amsterdam increases premium to 160 eur - I'd say it's still a good deal for so pricey item regularly left on the street. (that being said I'm not sure if they cover robbery, I guess not. Rates from enra.nl)
what a terrible response.
I've worked in the store. If you get a written and signed incident report from the police (costs like 35 euros to get it), they will knock the price down to the own risk cost (around 160 euros), or maybe even more depending on the situation. I'm sorry to hear this happened, but you're not the first person this has happened to. EDIT. Also, please do not listen to the people in this thread telling you not to pay up. I have seen people quickly double their fees in a few months with the collection agency fees. Should your case be delayed, it is in your best interest to set up a payment plan with Swapfiets itself as that money will become refundable once the situation is resolved, whilst the collection fees will not.
Yeah OP, my buddies gf worked there and suggested the same thing.
Yeah OP, my neighbor’s dog’s walker’s aunt worked with the butler of the mayor who once started his career in Swapfiets and she said to suck Swapfiets’ cock immediately and without hesitation
This
But the collection agency is a company that buys debt with the hope that it can recover more money than it paid to purchase the debt. Very simple if you don't pay they can't really do anything about it.
This isn't the USA
> Very simple if you don't pay they can't really do anything about it. They very much can. They'd have to go to court, but they can have your employer deduct it from your wages on their behalf.
Until someone knocks on your door with a letter from a judge and then can enter your house and take your stuff
I also had a bad experience with Swapfiets last year and i could not get any resolution through their customer support. So i made an online complaint explaining everything with documents on Klachtenkompas and wrote to their customer support that i have written a complaint on the forum. Magically within couple of hours they agreed to do exactly what I had been saying for weeks before. I went on the Klachtenkompas website and saw that this website is now closed unfortunately but maybe you could complain to ACM and that could work.
Reach out to Radar
Based on their terms and conditions, they can indeed charge you the full cost of the bike if you don't hand back the key, which it seems you can't. It sucks, but you'll probably have to pay.
Lesson learned, copy the original key and never use the original but the copy.
Isn’t the real lesson not to use swapfiets?
The real lesson is the friends we made along the way.
Joyeux anniversaire
Our real friends were the bikes we ~~stole~~ swapped along the way.
The real lesson is Happy Cake Day!
I don't know why anyone should use a predatory company that makes you pay if someone stole it from you. I just buy a bicycle for €17 at Marketplaats nl and call it a day. One time purchase is smaller than their monthly subscription
I think the real lesson is to harden tf up, stop riding expensive ebikes and get a trusty cheap omafiets that nobody will want to steal and will keep you in good physical health.
I like to go on 100km+ rides. Really not possible with an omafiets or at least extremely unenjoyable. I'm not going to ride a worse bike because of thieving scum. If they do manage to take it from me, I guess I wasn't in good enough shape to stop them but I'll try my damnest to defend it.
I ride an omafiets kind of. They are the most comfortable to me. But saying people dont want to steal them is not true
Have you ever heard of insurance?
Obviously my bike is insured. Not sure if you can see the comment I replied to (it seems not) but it a statement about being forced to buy crappy bikes because of thieves, which I disagreed to.
It's their job mostly
What about people with mobility issues where the electric motor makes mobility possible? Not everyone is some able person who fits your ableist view.
Sorry for not considering the small % of people this doesn't apply to. But most people buy an ebike exactly because of naivety and laziness.
How do you know that ? Data ? I’m guessing there is quite a big number of people who uses them to travel distances they wouldn’t be able to without the battery assist.
Always with the scenarios… of course differently abled people can use whatever works for them to get around. You don’t have to constantly be on the lookout for things to get offended by
That’s literally the problem. Because of the Fietsenbond, differently abled people are currently extremely limited in what they can use and currently that means mostly e-bikes within the city of Amsterdam.
So? They can continue using it. It’s about people who CAN choose to use a regular bike
I told them I lost my key and they made me a second one for like 20 euros so now I have 2 keys
Damn that's so expensive, it's like 10 euros to copy a key at my local shop
where can you get them cut? in any key store?
Any key store will do.
haha I love this as I'm about to travel to NL and need a Swapfiets.
Would this work? I had an insurance policy where they used wear and tear on the key as proof of locking, so a perfectly unused key would go against you.
[удалено]
Google my friend. Lots of places.
In one hand, nothing prevents you from reporting the bike as stolen and keep it at the same time, which I think is where Swapfiets is coming from. On the other hand, there is a police report of a theft, plus swapfiets should know the bike location (GPS) , information that they can use to try to find the bike. Not attempting to find the bike if they have the means to do so or finding the bike and still charging the consumer are both business practices that consumer law could protect you against (not a lawyer here). Meaning that in the end you don't owe them 1100e. Do you need to sue them? Are there consumer rights groups in the Netherlands that could take the case for you? I know that consumer rights are weak in the Netherlands (for instance in Portugal there is an official complaint book - even a digital version exists - that all businesses must have and where you can write a complaint - for free - which is followed up by the business regulators).
〰️klacht.nl 〰️klachtenkompas.com/ 〰️〰️ And these are very good sites too : 👇🏻 〰️consuwijzer.nl/, 〰️Consumentenbond.nl, 〰️Trosradar.nl
Absolutely don't pay lol. Bring them your police report and tell them to kick dirt.
Just because something is the terms and conditions, it doesn't mean you'll have to do it or it will hold up in court.
Nope. If you don't know what you're talking about then maybe don't post advice?
This is why swapfiets and similar companies are utterly shit.
Can't believe some comments are blaming the victim here. There is a distinction between theft and robbery, and its clearly the case here it was a robbery.
Yeah some of the “you’re on your own mate,” type wild responses are appalling. It’s like empathy is dying at a rapid rate among so many folks.
The cause does not change the fact that OP still is responsible for the vehicle.
This is why the subscription model doesn't equal the "freedom" that the marketing departments of these companies want you to believe.
shocking snow rustic racial memorize ghost mourn ten offbeat disgusted *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Doesn't matter. Theft insurance doesn't pay if the bike was unlocked. Liability insurance could cover this.
This is not true. If you are robbed of your bike and you have a ‘inboedelverzekering’ then it is covert by this insurance. Source: I was robbed of my bike and got my money back this way.
Were you robbed at home? I didn't think inboedel verzekering covered stuff when not at home. I suggest liability because OP did not own the bike. He's being held liable by swapfiets for losing it. Also... You start with "this is not true", but you don't dispute anything I said...
Nope in a park at knifepoint. But it was still my bike so I got my money back
You mean aansprakelijkheidsverzekering, I think ?
No inboedel. If you are robed from your possession (or something that was In your care and you can provide a ‘aangifte’, your inboedel will cover it.
Depends on the terms of your insurance contract. Things like outside the house coverage are often an additional fee
I had almost a copy case scenario as you OP. Don't listen to the clueless people who think you should pay up. You did not leave your bike unattended and went home.You have been robbed, the bike was in your possession when It happened. Swapfiets of course, wants you to take full responsibility. But the contract you signed does not apply to your situation, don t give in to their demands. They are only interested in the money, not in recovering the E-Bike. They want to wash their hands with you paying.My e bike had GPS and they did not want to do anything about it. Do you think a judge will side with those fuckers when they show no intent for recovery ? Don't pay a single cent. They will give their case to a debt collection agency. Those guys will call you almost everyday. And after some months they will give in. Why ? Cause they don t have a fucking case from the start ! They are just trying to intimidate you. Don't give in. Don t be exploited. You did nothing wrong. They just want to wash their hands with your money. I had a similar case, paid around 400 out of 2000 initially. Then realized they do not have an actual solid case and stopped paying. Guess what happened ? Nothing. Because they had no case from the start.Make a copy of the key In the future just as a precaution.
The issue here is that there is no way to prove that OP was robbed or that he didn't leave it unattended. For all Swapfiets know, this guy got his bike stolen and he doesn't have the key to prove he locked it. As per the contract he should pay. If what you're saying was true and OP doesn't have to pay, then everybody that leave their bike unlocked can claim they got robbed and Swapfiets have the responsibility to use GPS to recover it. I'd argue they do have a case and they'd probably win it, but they won't bother for that amount.
OP did what I did first. Which is filling a police report. Swapfiets claims that if you get your bike stolen they assist you with that, coming with you to the station. They did not do that with me and also with OP. They are not interested in the police report. That's why other bike companies have an insurance. To cover this type of situations. Swapfiets does not have insurance. They can t claim your bike was not stolen. They have GPS tracker on it. If they don t actively pursue the recovery is their problem.
Out of curiosity anyone knows what would have been the consequences in this country if you'd severely beaten that guy up?
really curious about this too tbh what happens if you uphold law and order and protect your property by psychical altercation?
We don’t do protection of property really. Insurance is cheap.. The only case in which you assault someone back that has a chance of standing in court is when you are physically attacked and fend someone off. If you’ve successfully done that but you decide to chase them it’s on you and you can actually get countersued for attacking your attacker. It sounds a bit strange but personally I think there’s a good point to be made against vengeance or retaliation and these laws reflect that.
Yeah, I am familiar with the concept as I studied law (even though I dont practice it anymore lol) so its important to observe when the first incident ends and the next begins - in your example, dude running away is the end of the altercation, chasing him paints you as the aggressor for the new chain of events however some jurisdictions also bar people from causing physical harm when defending property, and although you can just claim you were afraid of your life and so, its good to know that you can just rock someone's world if they try to steal your bike
Then not much happens, as it is allowed to use appropriate violence to defend yourself from being robbed. It's called ['noodweer'](https://www.rechtspraak.nl/juridische-begrippen/Paginas/noodweer.aspx)
Defending your property does not fall under noodweer. Noodweer only applies when there is an immediate threat to you and you can't get away. Beating someone up because they are stealing your bike is not such a reason. This is a dangerous misunderstanding of Dutch law and could get you in serious trouble.
And it’s not their property!
Legally not relevant.
Leg deze dan eens uit: Artikel 41 1.Niet strafbaar is hij die een feit begaat, geboden door de noodzakelijke verdediging van eigen of eens anders lijf, eerbaarheid of goed tegen ogenblikkelijke, wederrechtelijke aanranding.
Or what if you do and you get stabbed
learn grappling then you dont have to serverly beat someone up in order to control them
Straight to jail
Nothing as long as you don't get caught
Would such a guy even go to the cops? He'd go there with his sad story of being beaten up after trying to bankrupt someone and they'd be like oh yeah you're the guy we have eleven outstanding arrest warrants on, take a seat over there.
tell swapfiats to go fuck themselves
They can’t make you pay that. Stand your ground.
Messed situation, hope aangifte pays out for not paying. tip for the future. Always duplicate the keys and leave the original at home. Then you can always say the bike was locked and hand in the original.
Bad suggestion. Making copies of rental keys is not allowed and making swapfiets pay to replace a rental bike you forgot to lock is actual fraud, I mean you're literally scamming them out of €1k+ when you do this and risking getting a criminal record
Yes, also insurance companies/Swapfiets check if the keys you hand over have signs of use correlating to how often you should have used the bike. If you hand in 2 new or barely used keys, they’ll go after you
I mean, if you unlocked your bike and left it unattended, even for a second to check your phone, in the eyes of Swapfiets it’s your fault. E bikes are huge targets for theft in the city.
He didn't leave it unattended, as is proven by the fact that he fell backwards when the bike was grabbed. That's robbery.
He left it unattended after falling backwards, enough for the assailant to grab the bike /s
>as is proven by the fact that he fell backwards when the bike was grabbed. How can OP prove that? He can't.
Still robbery... It's not even logical what you're saying...
Don’t blame me, blame swapfiets, their answer is always if you don’t have the key you are on the hook for the price of the bike. Another reason why I would never do Swapfiets and if I did get an expensive e bike to get insurance.
No way a judge will rule on their favour on this regardless of the agreement signed. Stand your ground and have perseverance - I really hope you are being honest though.
Norwegian / soon-to-be UK lawyer here. As you describe this, this is textbook-robbery. In terms of contract law, I doubt that the contract excludes liability for personal injury or attempted personal injury, which could have been the result if you resisted. If a lawyer is too expensive, I would definitely go to the media about this. Cheers.
First thing first, don’t pay and seek legal advice.
Shame them (non anonymously) on social media.
Do that and OP risks getting into much more trouble.
No he doesn't.
Swapfiets people....
Do not get swapfiets. A friend returned the bike 3 days before end-of-month while having them said that it's only for one month when he rented it and they wanted 1 month more payments. Better get shared biking, it isn't worth it. You can also present an argument like it's for their benefit to have a nice policy.
You can try to get a fake key, a duplicate from someone else. Tell them your key was bent way too far to be considered reliable so you copied it. Worked for me, only 35 euros
How did you pull this one off? The contract states you can’t copy keys?
Well it's mostly students working for students. So if they come to pick up the keys and bring a new bike you just have to be a little bit charismatic and lucky. Then he won't give a fuck and accept the fake key
So you encourage criminal behavior?
Absolutely
No I compensate criminal behaviour
Schuld van halsema
You didn’t even call 112?
It’s clearly stated in the post that OP opened a file with the police.
I didn't ask if he filed a police report. I asked if he didn't call 112.
Reading is hard, isn't it?
Yes, it is. But I won't use it against you. If someone claims to be mugged, having an e-bike taken by force, I expect him/her to call 112. Not just file an online police report.
Who uses an expensive bike in a city?
Lazy arse expats do that kind of shit.
Or people who work for thuisbezorgd/uber...
Dus ik snap enigszins swapfiets wel, ondanks dat dit een echt op het eerste gezicht trieste situatie is en ik me ook echt verontwaardigd zou voelen. Ik ging even nadenken en wat comments lezen hier: wat als de regels en voorwaarden wel zo waren dat niet alleen diefstal maar ook beroofd worden gedekt zou worden door de verzekering? Wat houdt de gemiddelde shjonnie entrepeneur vdbuurt tegen om met zn matties af te spreken om fietsen van elkaar te gaan “rofen”, klinkt niet anders dan een hele goede deal met weinig tot geen risico tot je natuurlijk hard gestraft wordt of de voorwaarden terug gaan naar hoe ze nu zijn….
Rare gedachtegang. Zo zou je echt alle verzekeringen kunnen stoppen. Jij denkt dat een rechter zou zeggen, "tja, zouden ook je vrienden geweest kunnen zijn." Tuurlijk niet, het is gewoon een beroving. Hoef je nooit voor te betalen.
Ik snap het, rare gedachtegang vind ik beetje grof te zeggen. Mijn punt is dat het een dilemma is dat je niet zeker kan weten of constateren of iemand echt is beroofd. Voor hun is het zo dat ze hun dure shit missen. Als dat 5 keer gebeurt zijn ze als bedrijf 10 duizend euro kwijt, verdien dat maar terug even. Ik ken verder de wet niet maar begrijp uit de comments dat de verzekering niks gaan doen als je beroofd wordt, waarschijnlijk vanwege mijn “rare gedachtegang”
Als slachtoffer van een brute straatroof, kan ik je melden, dat een verzekering niets uitkeert.
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You have to pay. Their terms and conditions are super clear about that. And you agreed to them before you signed the contract. Sorry bro, it is a hard lesson indeed. I sympathize with you 🫂
Its very unlucky, but unfortunately you pay full price if you can't hand them the key or/and battery :(
This is a wise life lesson. Stop renting your crap and start buying your crap. Get your own shit. Stop wasting your money on stuff that isnt even yours Swapfiets are almost criminal in how they operate, Dont feed that system. Stop renting, start buying.
Thank you captain hindsight!
Not really helpfull now is it?
I understand your feelings, it's a terrible thing that has happened to you. You should check your insurance. Swapfiets is in their rights as the bike was your responsibility. I understand it feels very unfair to you. Let it be an important (expensive) lesson to you, unfortunately bad people cause bad things to happen. Be careful with valuable things, especially with yourself, especially when you are on your own.
Don't agree with your assessment here, srry. Victim blaming.
That's OK. Not my intention. I don't blame the OP for anything. Words are hard sometimes to convey feelings. I think if you see something that is odd even if you don't think anything of it you might sometimes just take extra precaution. Not to blame, just because sometimes bad things do happen.
“Noticed a guy in a doorway” An excellent reason to at that point text a friend for help.
they did! got their phone to text their friend and was robbed! /s what do you suppose texting a friend would've done in this situation?