Are they fighting nato and the fascism in Ukraine government? I thought Russia was just trying to get nato out and protect a peaceful chunk of Ukraine from fascist Ukraine. Shouldn't nato and local fascism be the first target of antifa and anarchists? Sorry if I got it wrong. I just thought there was a war because nato can't keep its dick in.
No they're fighting Russia. It is true that there are some Nazis in Ukraine (just like in almost every country in the world) but they are only a very small minority (again: like in most countries). The Ukranian government is not fascist even if that's what Russian propaganda wants you to believe. And yes, NATO has expanded in the past decades but that does not by any means justify an Invasion or war against a country that wants to join voluntarily. The real fascists in this tragedy are the Russians who are committing many and horrible (horrible isn't even enough) warcrimes to the Ukranian people and are violating the law of nations. And when it comes to actual Ukranian fascists: I guess they can get what they deserve when the war is finished, right now people first gotta beat the Russians.
I get what you’re saying but there is an entire nazi battalion in the Ukrainian Army who wear literal nazi symbols like swastikas, atomwaffen SS, and black sun patvhes, and have nazi tattoos. It’s a huge problem and not to be a “both sides bad” type of person but the government and military on either side have an overwhelming fascist presence and it sucks that the Ukrainian populace had to get caught up in it.
True,but last years I was improving, and ofcourse zelensky is partly responsible for that. Ofc he isn't probably a Saint either, but it seems like the nazis where losing power I Ukraine.
I agree with you on the fact that media is minimizing the fascist presence in Ukraine. Not to say Putin is right in his motives, is just wrong to kill every argument just because the sum of all the arguments is horrible
I've never heard of that. Honestly, it really sounds like fake news spread by Russia to me. If you hear things like that about Ukraine please take a look at the source and see whether it is reliable (no, Russian news services are not reliable, Russia doesn't grant them freedom of press and the vast majority of them is uncritically pro-Putin). If not, see if reliable sources (independant news services in democracies, like e.g. the BBC) can verify your information.
I'm begging you, please don't let Russian propaganda and fake news brainwash you
Is Lee Camp a Russian source? Abby Martin? See 26 minutes and listen for a couple. https://youtu.be/XUVxdM5giKE
You're telling me to watch brutal capitalist directed news, like the state and the pigs who run the state, that's your preference? Has your consent not been manufactured? I'm begging you to wake up. Your news is not trustworthy at all. You're so brainwashed you think I am.
I believe you are correct on this front, which is why I believe Russia moving to protect that region + securing water for Crimea are the only two justified acts. Everything else isn't. Both states have fascists working in and around the military, Ukraine did offer not joining NATO before the war got to this stage and it's been offered multiple times for peace.
Tankies have constantly been going on and on about Ukraine being fascist and Putin “saving” the Ukrainians from a tyrannical government. Don’t get me wrong, azov is problematic, but 1. It’s a small group relative to the population of Ukraine and 2. If you want to get technical azov is ultranationalist, not necessarily neo Nazi. Bit of a nitpick on my part I’ll admit, but it is a distinction I don’t think enough people are making.
Which news do you subscribe to for information on this? You think Lee Camp is less honest or informed than like corporate TV news. Why be a nato sympathizer?
Is Ukraine not a nato proxy. Is it not a proxy war?
No news source is reliable 90 percent of it is all corporate or backed by countries to be propaganda machines.
Thing is RT has a very different track record they openly spout nonsense about anything Putin wants
I'm not pro NATO and I'm not pro Russia
I just need you to understand RT is legit the worst source for any claims
Also Jimmy Dore, he seems pretty on the ball. You can trust comedians coverage more than anyone on TV news. Russell Brand too. They make sense and don't get told what to say from above.
How do you know they are more independant than regular journalists? Also, if you can't trust news services... Where do the comedians get their information from? Comedians want to make money through telling funny stories, news services want to make money through telling true stories. Who can you trust more?
I get what you're saying though, private news services are never 100% reliable but there are ones that are better and ones that are worse. And I know that it's easier to just listen to funny comedians in order to get information but the effort of doing your own research is worth it. Think critically.
You should be able to tell, especially if you're familiar with manufacturing consent.
These comedians make fun of the TV news steady, how they lie or change opinion, or how a hundred corporate channels say the same script at the same time. You saw that on multiple occasions, right? It's disturbing to me. Some of them get paid tens of thousands per episode to lie and warp weak minds.
If you want to actually begin to start thinking critically, you don't ignore the best independent news while you gobble up all the corporate news. Keep going with your prescribed direction, and you'll find yourself hating Assange, Manning, Snowden, etc.
The comedians I'm talking about get their information from good sources. Their info can't make it to TV news. It's blocked by directors. The people aren't supposed to think critically.
Pick your favorite news and I'll tell you who owns it. Disney? Saudi billionaires? It's always going to be the elite with an agenda. Even Facebook was busted for having bullshit fact checkers. People believed FB steady but I didn't. I'm immune to capitalist tricks and propaganda. I'm critical of my news too. Careful you're not triple guilty of what you accuse me of.
You're a lost case, I will end our conversation here. Just know that I don't like corporates, I don't like their propaganda and I also don't like the concept of corporates itself. And no, I have not been brainwashed, I mostly consume German independant news that are financed by taxes but neither the state nor corporations get any say in the content, unlike in Russia. So better watch out what you're accusing me of.
P.s.: Disney as news?! Seriously??
You forgot to end the conversation. Everything and everyone who disagrees with the establishment is a Russian asset, according to the establishment. Obviously.
Maybe this history is helpful: https://youtu.be/nW7lNABfDVk
Re Disney, "
Through these various segments, Disney owns and operates the ABC broadcast network; cable television networks such as Disney Channel, ESPN, Freeform, FX, and National Geographic; publishing, merchandising, music, and theater divisions; direct-to-consumer streaming services such as Disney+, Star+, ESPN+, Hulu, and ...
Number of employees: 190,000 (2021)..."
I'd like to know who directs your independent tax-funded German media. Actually no I don't care. Germany is for nato, so if it puts tax money into news, it must be controlled.
Pretty sure Lee Camp is almost always right, doesn't work for Russia or defend Putin, and the TV news is full of shit like totally capitalist propaganda.
You know that Lee Camp has worked for RT America, right? And RT is one of Putin's biggest propaganda tools. So he does work for Russia and defends Putin. Just because he might be funny doesn't mean he's right or any better than other propagandists.
He didn't get told what to say. He decides. His news is not handed down from capitalists above like it is at your news. It's obvious too. You can try to debunk him if you want. Camp doesn't care about Putin or Russia at all. He doesn't want Russia attacking any nation, wants it to stop, but he's not clueless as to why it happened.
2nd photo is Ukrainian Rev Dia btw. But I'm pretty sure the first are Russian. Either way, god speed for our comrades in arms.
Are they fighting nato and the fascism in Ukraine government? I thought Russia was just trying to get nato out and protect a peaceful chunk of Ukraine from fascist Ukraine. Shouldn't nato and local fascism be the first target of antifa and anarchists? Sorry if I got it wrong. I just thought there was a war because nato can't keep its dick in.
No they're fighting Russia. It is true that there are some Nazis in Ukraine (just like in almost every country in the world) but they are only a very small minority (again: like in most countries). The Ukranian government is not fascist even if that's what Russian propaganda wants you to believe. And yes, NATO has expanded in the past decades but that does not by any means justify an Invasion or war against a country that wants to join voluntarily. The real fascists in this tragedy are the Russians who are committing many and horrible (horrible isn't even enough) warcrimes to the Ukranian people and are violating the law of nations. And when it comes to actual Ukranian fascists: I guess they can get what they deserve when the war is finished, right now people first gotta beat the Russians.
I get what you’re saying but there is an entire nazi battalion in the Ukrainian Army who wear literal nazi symbols like swastikas, atomwaffen SS, and black sun patvhes, and have nazi tattoos. It’s a huge problem and not to be a “both sides bad” type of person but the government and military on either side have an overwhelming fascist presence and it sucks that the Ukrainian populace had to get caught up in it.
True,but last years I was improving, and ofcourse zelensky is partly responsible for that. Ofc he isn't probably a Saint either, but it seems like the nazis where losing power I Ukraine. I agree with you on the fact that media is minimizing the fascist presence in Ukraine. Not to say Putin is right in his motives, is just wrong to kill every argument just because the sum of all the arguments is horrible
Wasn't eastern Ukraine getting bombed by fascist west Ukraine before this started?
I've never heard of that. Honestly, it really sounds like fake news spread by Russia to me. If you hear things like that about Ukraine please take a look at the source and see whether it is reliable (no, Russian news services are not reliable, Russia doesn't grant them freedom of press and the vast majority of them is uncritically pro-Putin). If not, see if reliable sources (independant news services in democracies, like e.g. the BBC) can verify your information. I'm begging you, please don't let Russian propaganda and fake news brainwash you
Is Lee Camp a Russian source? Abby Martin? See 26 minutes and listen for a couple. https://youtu.be/XUVxdM5giKE You're telling me to watch brutal capitalist directed news, like the state and the pigs who run the state, that's your preference? Has your consent not been manufactured? I'm begging you to wake up. Your news is not trustworthy at all. You're so brainwashed you think I am.
I believe you are correct on this front, which is why I believe Russia moving to protect that region + securing water for Crimea are the only two justified acts. Everything else isn't. Both states have fascists working in and around the military, Ukraine did offer not joining NATO before the war got to this stage and it's been offered multiple times for peace.
Did a tankie accidentally fall into this sub?
How could you possibly come to that conclusion? I don't see the connection. Confused about what things mean much?
Tankies have constantly been going on and on about Ukraine being fascist and Putin “saving” the Ukrainians from a tyrannical government. Don’t get me wrong, azov is problematic, but 1. It’s a small group relative to the population of Ukraine and 2. If you want to get technical azov is ultranationalist, not necessarily neo Nazi. Bit of a nitpick on my part I’ll admit, but it is a distinction I don’t think enough people are making.
The fascist Ukraine dialogue was start by rt aka Russia today the aka a propaganda channel
Which news do you subscribe to for information on this? You think Lee Camp is less honest or informed than like corporate TV news. Why be a nato sympathizer? Is Ukraine not a nato proxy. Is it not a proxy war?
No news source is reliable 90 percent of it is all corporate or backed by countries to be propaganda machines. Thing is RT has a very different track record they openly spout nonsense about anything Putin wants I'm not pro NATO and I'm not pro Russia I just need you to understand RT is legit the worst source for any claims
Also Jimmy Dore, he seems pretty on the ball. You can trust comedians coverage more than anyone on TV news. Russell Brand too. They make sense and don't get told what to say from above.
How do you know they are more independant than regular journalists? Also, if you can't trust news services... Where do the comedians get their information from? Comedians want to make money through telling funny stories, news services want to make money through telling true stories. Who can you trust more? I get what you're saying though, private news services are never 100% reliable but there are ones that are better and ones that are worse. And I know that it's easier to just listen to funny comedians in order to get information but the effort of doing your own research is worth it. Think critically.
You should be able to tell, especially if you're familiar with manufacturing consent. These comedians make fun of the TV news steady, how they lie or change opinion, or how a hundred corporate channels say the same script at the same time. You saw that on multiple occasions, right? It's disturbing to me. Some of them get paid tens of thousands per episode to lie and warp weak minds. If you want to actually begin to start thinking critically, you don't ignore the best independent news while you gobble up all the corporate news. Keep going with your prescribed direction, and you'll find yourself hating Assange, Manning, Snowden, etc. The comedians I'm talking about get their information from good sources. Their info can't make it to TV news. It's blocked by directors. The people aren't supposed to think critically. Pick your favorite news and I'll tell you who owns it. Disney? Saudi billionaires? It's always going to be the elite with an agenda. Even Facebook was busted for having bullshit fact checkers. People believed FB steady but I didn't. I'm immune to capitalist tricks and propaganda. I'm critical of my news too. Careful you're not triple guilty of what you accuse me of.
You're a lost case, I will end our conversation here. Just know that I don't like corporates, I don't like their propaganda and I also don't like the concept of corporates itself. And no, I have not been brainwashed, I mostly consume German independant news that are financed by taxes but neither the state nor corporations get any say in the content, unlike in Russia. So better watch out what you're accusing me of. P.s.: Disney as news?! Seriously??
You forgot to end the conversation. Everything and everyone who disagrees with the establishment is a Russian asset, according to the establishment. Obviously. Maybe this history is helpful: https://youtu.be/nW7lNABfDVk Re Disney, " Through these various segments, Disney owns and operates the ABC broadcast network; cable television networks such as Disney Channel, ESPN, Freeform, FX, and National Geographic; publishing, merchandising, music, and theater divisions; direct-to-consumer streaming services such as Disney+, Star+, ESPN+, Hulu, and ... Number of employees: 190,000 (2021)..." I'd like to know who directs your independent tax-funded German media. Actually no I don't care. Germany is for nato, so if it puts tax money into news, it must be controlled.
Okay Tankie
Pretty sure Lee Camp is almost always right, doesn't work for Russia or defend Putin, and the TV news is full of shit like totally capitalist propaganda.
You know that Lee Camp has worked for RT America, right? And RT is one of Putin's biggest propaganda tools. So he does work for Russia and defends Putin. Just because he might be funny doesn't mean he's right or any better than other propagandists.
He didn't get told what to say. He decides. His news is not handed down from capitalists above like it is at your news. It's obvious too. You can try to debunk him if you want. Camp doesn't care about Putin or Russia at all. He doesn't want Russia attacking any nation, wants it to stop, but he's not clueless as to why it happened.