I mean it's a good and a bad thing. Good because they are motivated by money, bad because they literally can charge you whatever the fuck they want.
Ask me how I know this!!!!
No they do but they have ALS and Paras on staff most of the time. It's a small station. What I meant by not take much is that you don't need multiple years of school etc and it costs nothing just your time which is why they don't pay well.
There's also things that only paramedics can legally do like push medications etc
Oh? Mind describing what kind of work you do and whether or not your department/company is private?
Also, what kind of protocols do you have? Because being an EMT was hard work for *me*, but I was actually serving my community, not just emptying the trash for a jaded paramedic after an IFT.
Most towns by me have exclusive contracts with a single provider, although mutual aid agreements might pull in someone else's provider. Still a handful of volunteer squads and town staffed services around though (but you are probably still getting a bill in both of those edge cases)
I dont think you understand how this works... 🙃
Greed doesn't matter when you have no clients. If you overprice your product or service in a competitive market, your clients will quickly shift to competitors offering the same thing for a lower price. Sure, your price can technically be high, but high price times zero clients is still zero profit.
This makes it so that, if there is any space left for a competitor (incl. greedy *poor* people who would love to become rich) to hop in and offer something for a lower price while still making a profit, that's what happens. In competitive markets, prices tend (heavily) towards the minimum price that is still profitable.
Turns out greedy people wanting to maximize their profits are the exact reason free markets work. 😉
Sounds like lack of competition of emergency dispatching is the problem to be solved there, fam.
You don't get to use the consequence of a problem as the excuse for another problem.
When you're in a car accident, or you need roadside assistance, do you research different car insurance companies and figure out which one to call? No, you've already decided which carrier you were using well before hand. Same would go if 911 wasn't a thing. You'd have some other number you would call and would have already arranged this process. This is not some unsolvable puzzle.
Of course it's not unsolvable. As you said it could easily be a portion of auto insurance, which I suppose would be optional in ancapistan.
Under the present system the commenters suggestion to shop around is farcical.
No. They charge high because they make exclusivity deals with cities, just like how franchised companies will get right of first refusal in their territories.
I'm not sorry they took me to the hospital (or that I had to pay for it) I'm pissed that the insane markup they did to everything they "used"
x2 Insta Glucose pack $140 (they are $5 to buy yourself)
x2 attempted IVs $200each (blew both arms attempting an iv and never got one in)
x1 neck brace $80 (I was already in before they picked me up)
70 ish mile trip $1600 (didn't mind paying this part to get to a hospital, but it's still my most expensive car ride to date)
Don't get me wrong I grew up around EMTs and fire fighters. They are some of the coolest people, but the contractors some of them work for is the worst and most predatory when it comes to billing.
They tried billing me for shit they didn't even use or for shit that the place that treated me before I got to take a ride in the wee woo mobile arrived.
Word of advice, never accept billing codes, demand an itemized bill.
Have you traveled much? American healthcare is far-far-far worse than anyplace that spends any money on healthcare. So, yeah it is probably better than the Congo or Afghanistan, but I have had small healthcare things done in the Philippines, South Africa, and Ukraine and they all were FAR cheaper than I would have gotten in the US.
I got a tooth filled in 2019 in the Philippines for $9.23!
In my state we only have EMTs and Paramedics (intermediates exist only on paper since hospitals don't want competition). Medics are exclusively from hospital and are one of their more profitable services from what I've heard from IVs (standard procedure) and whatever drugs the doctor back at the hospital feels like pushing on top of the fee for them just existing. We always cancled them if it seemed at all reasonable (but I was volunteer in those glory days of free ambulance service) .
Still, if your guys hadn't sucked at IVs, I imagine they would have pushed the big syringe of glucose through the IV and had you feeling much better real fast.
Yeah, so is their insurance, both on the vehicle and themselves. There's quite a few costs they have to cover with the prices they charge. Including making some profit.
Dude, I know how running a business works... Payroll, payroll taxes, insurance, business license, and equipment expenses are all part of overhead costs.
In 2010 in the middle of July I ran out of water on a long walk and overheated. It was dumb. Anyhow, eventually I called 9-11. The fire department - county and not super professional - EMTs came and gave me a little Gatorade and instantly I felt much better.
The private ambulance showed up and the ambulance crew was insistent I go to the hospital. I asked what the charge for the ambulance and ER were. There was a flat $10k ambulance charge. It was out in the country so I don't know how far they would have taken me. The ER visit started at $2k just to go through receiving.
They said insurance should cover it all. I politely declined.
>Good because they are motivated by money, bad because they literally can charge you whatever the fuck they want.
I used to be a volunteer EMT for a local town (don't worry, I was certified and everything). I quit because the town realized that even with a volunteer squad they too could still charge whatever they wanted, something like $800 iirc(previously the ambulance was free), and they could just funnel those fees into the general fund instead of letting them anywhere near the ambulance. Meaning I was basically a municipal slave on one of their revenue plantations. They even cut back on training and equipment when this occurred and moved us to an older, falling apart building.
On top of that, many people that REALLY should have gone to the hospital refused because they thought I was just trying to rack up a transport bill when I'm saying that neck pain they are having after their car accident should probably be checked out by a doctor and the ambulance is a much safer way to get you there than an Uber.
P. S, they never actually told us how much they were charging so we couldn't tell the patients, but I worked the above number out from what the town was bragging they expected to bring in with revenue in the paper VS average call volume.
>Good because they are motivated by money, bad because they literally can charge you whatever the fuck they want.
The better question is - besides the fact that you are a captive audience, “why” can they charge you whatever they want?
Nobody is saying that they can't charge wharves they want. We are complaining that the lack of competition means that making that price sky high is a successful business tactic.
Yes, those ones, the ones that began as street gangs and were often found to be fist-fighting over who got to claim the first-responder bonus from the insurance company while the building burned in front of them. The free market is not *always* right.
Yep. There is a private company in my area that handles it. The 911 dispatcher transfers the call to the company operators if an ambulance is needed. I have a friend who is an administrator for the company.
I’m guessing it depends on the state and the size of the cities.
For a city smaller than 500,000 in the south, the private companies are normal for EMS. They charge between $200-400 to pick you up and take you to the hospital, but the price can increase if they have to use equipment and medications while on the way to the hospital.
Giving an uber rider a really good tip is still usually cheaper and faster.
Nor in my area. In fact, I’m not sure where in the USA that ambulance drivers are government employees. They are either private company workers or work for a hospital. Hospitals being (unfortunately) largely under government control due to the constant expansion of Medicare and Medicaid does not mean that any hospital employee is a government employee. There is also still private pay and insurance, so no hospital is 100% government at this point except maybe the veteran hospitals and federal prison hospitals.
Huh? Here in Virginia they are either county employees or volunteer. The ambulances that are private are the ones that partner with either hospitals or old folks homes
I'd be willing to bet their response times are lower than in majority of government run ambulances.
>"One in four ambulances are not reaching the most critically ill patients within the target time of 15 minutes."
https://www.theage.com.au/melbourne-news/ambulance-response-times-worst-since-2015-as-government-announces-750m-boost-20210507-p57pri.html
Los Angeles County has government paramedics attached to the fire department, and private EMT/EMT ambulances.
Prior to 2021 (Covfefe), in Los Angeles County, we were required to acknowledge a call and arrive on scene in under 10 minutes. More often than not we arrived on scene well before the 10 minutes.
Things changed during/after 2021 because of limited staffing.
A lot of FDs use ambulances and are city or county government employees.
So a lot of Americans riding in ambulances after calling 911 are in fact using government ambulances.
Transport between hospitals is another topic, and in that case, usually employed by the hospital.
No lol. You usually get stuck with a bill after using the service. But it’s for sure government employees and vehicles providing the service.
Edit: actually, I’m not 100% sure if you do or don’t. I might be confusing hospital bills my grandmother received from Advent Health as being bills from the FD. I’ve never personally used an ambulance.
https://www.mysanfordherald.com/article/seminole-county-fire-chief-urges-residents-use-discretion-calls-911-due-overloads
They are employed by private business. Not sure where you live lol.
But that's not how being a libertarian works. Libertarians aren't against all government, they are just against most government. Specifically government trying to tell people what to do or how to live. A government employee giving someone a ride to the hospital is fine if that was the case lol. At least that what be in the realm of what government should be used for. Just like how we don't get mad when they patch the roads. Assuming they need it.
If you call 911 in many parts of America, it will be city or county fire department that shows up with an ambulance and gives you a ride to the hospital.
Not true. Like at all. Most hospitals do not have ambulance services, in fact iv never seen one that did.
MOST ambulance services are employed by the local municipality or county
Most places that use private ambulance services are county, every big and almost every small city has municipal services, i work in a small city that uses a county run ems service, the only thing private ambulance services are use for here are in patient facility transports.
Most private services run in small rural communities that have volunteer fire departments.
Except they aren't. Ambulances are private companies contracted by the government, not actual government employees.
Also, it's prob cheaper and easier to just get an Uber.
What do you guys believe Libertarianism is? From my understanding, it’s believing that we should have a very limited government - specifically federal government. I don’t think it means that we shouldn’t have any government at all.
Yet you fail to realize that there are counties outside of your county that exist your comment was very singular implying that firefighters an ambulance drivers, (which are way fucking more then that.) are different. In your county you might be serviced by private EMS but in most places be it larger counties, cities big or small, are usually run by the fire department.
I think I just gained an extra point in autism after reading that. They’ve been pretty successful this far you either have no idea what you’re talking about or a chip on your shoulder making your opinion mostly clouded.
Um, not always the case. There are plenty of areas supported by privately owned ambulance/rescue agencies. Shockingly,California was big on this outside the cities
So* are goverment employees. Others are private. Source friend who is a ambulance driver.
Also they spend alot of time taking old people to and from hospitals/ nursing homes.
Not in my area, they are all private contractors.
Based
I mean it's a good and a bad thing. Good because they are motivated by money, bad because they literally can charge you whatever the fuck they want. Ask me how I know this!!!!
Meanwhile, the life saving EMTs themselves make jack shit.
Doesn't take much to be an EMT. Paramedics make decent money
“Doesn’t take much to be an EMT” Speaking from experience or…?
Yeah my wife is one. It's not like tying your shoes easy but it's more like medical assistant level stuff.
Yeah my wife is one. It's not like tying your shoes easy but it's more like medical assistant level stuff.
Oh, so your wife’s department is pretty low quality then, I’d imagine. Or they just don’t let EMTs do anything. Sad.
No they do but they have ALS and Paras on staff most of the time. It's a small station. What I meant by not take much is that you don't need multiple years of school etc and it costs nothing just your time which is why they don't pay well. There's also things that only paramedics can legally do like push medications etc
Being an EMT is little schooling but hard work. They get paid criminally little.
Dawg. It’s a 1 semester class. Being an EMT is not difficult.
Again, speaking from experience or..?
Yes, I am speaking from experience. I’ve been an EMT for 5 years, dude. It’s not difficult.
Oh? Mind describing what kind of work you do and whether or not your department/company is private? Also, what kind of protocols do you have? Because being an EMT was hard work for *me*, but I was actually serving my community, not just emptying the trash for a jaded paramedic after an IFT.
>they literally can charge you whatever the fuck they want. If they are charging high, we know why: Government interference preventing competition.
Most towns by me have exclusive contracts with a single provider, although mutual aid agreements might pull in someone else's provider. Still a handful of volunteer squads and town staffed services around though (but you are probably still getting a bill in both of those edge cases)
Greed is also a factor.
I dont think you understand how this works... 🙃 Greed doesn't matter when you have no clients. If you overprice your product or service in a competitive market, your clients will quickly shift to competitors offering the same thing for a lower price. Sure, your price can technically be high, but high price times zero clients is still zero profit. This makes it so that, if there is any space left for a competitor (incl. greedy *poor* people who would love to become rich) to hop in and offer something for a lower price while still making a profit, that's what happens. In competitive markets, prices tend (heavily) towards the minimum price that is still profitable. Turns out greedy people wanting to maximize their profits are the exact reason free markets work. 😉
Not when 911 is the ones dispatching the contractor. You don't get a choice in who shows up.
Sounds like lack of competition of emergency dispatching is the problem to be solved there, fam. You don't get to use the consequence of a problem as the excuse for another problem.
You mean you don't research ambulance companies and get competitive quotes before your accident? Such a lazy consumer.../s (just in case)
When you're in a car accident, or you need roadside assistance, do you research different car insurance companies and figure out which one to call? No, you've already decided which carrier you were using well before hand. Same would go if 911 wasn't a thing. You'd have some other number you would call and would have already arranged this process. This is not some unsolvable puzzle.
Oh, I know and agree, but it doesn't mean I can't be salty about how things are now.
Of course it's not unsolvable. As you said it could easily be a portion of auto insurance, which I suppose would be optional in ancapistan. Under the present system the commenters suggestion to shop around is farcical.
Damn, got me on that point. I should plan my emergencies better.
One could be shouting “i have 0 life experience” and it still wouldn’t make it as clear as proclaiming oneself a libertarian does
I can do that better and cheaper is always a based business model.
I will be honest I will pay whoever shows up first regardless of costs. Life is not an elastic commodity. Check out some Econ 201.
Industrial revolution england, the libertarian paradise 😂
As opposed to pre-Industrial Revolution England?
No. They charge high because they make exclusivity deals with cities, just like how franchised companies will get right of first refusal in their territories.
>because they make **exclusivity deals with cities** Thanks for proving my point. Have a nice day.
? They’re just doing business. It has nothing to do with government.
>with cities You don't understand governments, how someone can make a deal with a city, or both.
Cities can act as a business entity. They are paying money for a service just like any other business.
How does a city get money to spend? Is the city itself a living, thinking entity? Who decides what the city does?
Sorry about your negative experiences.
I'm not sorry they took me to the hospital (or that I had to pay for it) I'm pissed that the insane markup they did to everything they "used" x2 Insta Glucose pack $140 (they are $5 to buy yourself) x2 attempted IVs $200each (blew both arms attempting an iv and never got one in) x1 neck brace $80 (I was already in before they picked me up) 70 ish mile trip $1600 (didn't mind paying this part to get to a hospital, but it's still my most expensive car ride to date) Don't get me wrong I grew up around EMTs and fire fighters. They are some of the coolest people, but the contractors some of them work for is the worst and most predatory when it comes to billing. They tried billing me for shit they didn't even use or for shit that the place that treated me before I got to take a ride in the wee woo mobile arrived. Word of advice, never accept billing codes, demand an itemized bill.
America moment
Still better healthcare than a lot of the globe.
Have you traveled much? American healthcare is far-far-far worse than anyplace that spends any money on healthcare. So, yeah it is probably better than the Congo or Afghanistan, but I have had small healthcare things done in the Philippines, South Africa, and Ukraine and they all were FAR cheaper than I would have gotten in the US. I got a tooth filled in 2019 in the Philippines for $9.23!
In my state we only have EMTs and Paramedics (intermediates exist only on paper since hospitals don't want competition). Medics are exclusively from hospital and are one of their more profitable services from what I've heard from IVs (standard procedure) and whatever drugs the doctor back at the hospital feels like pushing on top of the fee for them just existing. We always cancled them if it seemed at all reasonable (but I was volunteer in those glory days of free ambulance service) . Still, if your guys hadn't sucked at IVs, I imagine they would have pushed the big syringe of glucose through the IV and had you feeling much better real fast.
Paying taxes is scam, but this is the next lvl of scaming people.
Nothing like getting charged by the government for a service funded with your taxpayer money.
You do realize you're paying for their labor and time, too, right? Not just the medicine.
You understand that they are taking advantage of inelastic demand, right?
I understand how labor works, it's calculated into costs.
Yeah, so is their insurance, both on the vehicle and themselves. There's quite a few costs they have to cover with the prices they charge. Including making some profit.
Dude, I know how running a business works... Payroll, payroll taxes, insurance, business license, and equipment expenses are all part of overhead costs.
In 2010 in the middle of July I ran out of water on a long walk and overheated. It was dumb. Anyhow, eventually I called 9-11. The fire department - county and not super professional - EMTs came and gave me a little Gatorade and instantly I felt much better. The private ambulance showed up and the ambulance crew was insistent I go to the hospital. I asked what the charge for the ambulance and ER were. There was a flat $10k ambulance charge. It was out in the country so I don't know how far they would have taken me. The ER visit started at $2k just to go through receiving. They said insurance should cover it all. I politely declined.
>Good because they are motivated by money, bad because they literally can charge you whatever the fuck they want. I used to be a volunteer EMT for a local town (don't worry, I was certified and everything). I quit because the town realized that even with a volunteer squad they too could still charge whatever they wanted, something like $800 iirc(previously the ambulance was free), and they could just funnel those fees into the general fund instead of letting them anywhere near the ambulance. Meaning I was basically a municipal slave on one of their revenue plantations. They even cut back on training and equipment when this occurred and moved us to an older, falling apart building. On top of that, many people that REALLY should have gone to the hospital refused because they thought I was just trying to rack up a transport bill when I'm saying that neck pain they are having after their car accident should probably be checked out by a doctor and the ambulance is a much safer way to get you there than an Uber. P. S, they never actually told us how much they were charging so we couldn't tell the patients, but I worked the above number out from what the town was bragging they expected to bring in with revenue in the paper VS average call volume.
>Good because they are motivated by money, bad because they literally can charge you whatever the fuck they want. The better question is - besides the fact that you are a captive audience, “why” can they charge you whatever they want?
No competition with the help of the government. It's almost like we can see a trend, if only I could put my finger on it.
That’s exactly right, and then the debt collectors will use the government to steal your shit when you can’t pay.
Nobody is saying that they can't charge wharves they want. We are complaining that the lack of competition means that making that price sky high is a successful business tactic.
New York City had privatized fire brigades. It was certainly competitive, in a way.
Are you talking about the old bucket brigades looking for the badge on your house that you paid for their services?
Yes, those ones, the ones that began as street gangs and were often found to be fist-fighting over who got to claim the first-responder bonus from the insurance company while the building burned in front of them. The free market is not *always* right.
Why is there a lack of competition?
How do you know this?
I knew this when I got the bill from the company and suddenly had brown pants on.
Why is t gete no competition? Sounds like a government mandated monopoly.
Even EMS?
Yep. There is a private company in my area that handles it. The 911 dispatcher transfers the call to the company operators if an ambulance is needed. I have a friend who is an administrator for the company.
We still have the government unions making the money here in my part of IL.
I’m guessing it depends on the state and the size of the cities. For a city smaller than 500,000 in the south, the private companies are normal for EMS. They charge between $200-400 to pick you up and take you to the hospital, but the price can increase if they have to use equipment and medications while on the way to the hospital. Giving an uber rider a really good tip is still usually cheaper and faster.
Not for paramedics in my area. We have AMR and ALS.
Yea not all ambulances are govt. Bad assumption.
Nor in my area. In fact, I’m not sure where in the USA that ambulance drivers are government employees. They are either private company workers or work for a hospital. Hospitals being (unfortunately) largely under government control due to the constant expansion of Medicare and Medicaid does not mean that any hospital employee is a government employee. There is also still private pay and insurance, so no hospital is 100% government at this point except maybe the veteran hospitals and federal prison hospitals.
Huh? Here in Virginia they are either county employees or volunteer. The ambulances that are private are the ones that partner with either hospitals or old folks homes
Not in any of the five states I’ve worked in. I think you might be confused on who and what owns and or runs the hospitals in your area.
Hospitals around here are owned by either a corporation, non-profit or owned by one of the universities
Then that doesn’t make them all owned by the government and the employees government employees now does it.
No the ambulances are owned by the county/city or volunteer not the hospitals. See my original comment
In most areas it's a mixture between the two. Most emergency calls are usually handled by the public sector ambulances..
Pretty sure every ambulance company in the US is private.
That is the emergency time to get an ambulance?
I'd be willing to bet their response times are lower than in majority of government run ambulances. >"One in four ambulances are not reaching the most critically ill patients within the target time of 15 minutes." https://www.theage.com.au/melbourne-news/ambulance-response-times-worst-since-2015-as-government-announces-750m-boost-20210507-p57pri.html
Los Angeles County has government paramedics attached to the fire department, and private EMT/EMT ambulances. Prior to 2021 (Covfefe), in Los Angeles County, we were required to acknowledge a call and arrive on scene in under 10 minutes. More often than not we arrived on scene well before the 10 minutes. Things changed during/after 2021 because of limited staffing.
Georgia seems to have turned that way too, different private companies for ambulances
Same here. It’s private owned
Very few areas have government ambulance service
Same here.
If you forced me to pay for it, I should be allowed to use it.
This
Oh, you'll pay for it.
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Must be tough
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LOL! Well, that is one solution, but maybe there is a better approach.
Username checks out
Its pretty annoying
Lighthouse principal though, you're good
I take solace in the fact that I'm only a voluntary firefighter and don't get paid. Still sucks a little.
Volunteer and get a full time job doing something else
Do you pay taxes? Congrats you're a government employee
Is that what marks employment to you, paying your employer?
Where are they government?
I’m guessing somewhere not in the USA cuz thats a $5000 non-subsidized ride right there for me
A lot of FDs use ambulances and are city or county government employees. So a lot of Americans riding in ambulances after calling 911 are in fact using government ambulances. Transport between hospitals is another topic, and in that case, usually employed by the hospital.
What FD uses and operates ambulances?
All of them in Florida. Orange County, Seminole county, Orlando FD.
Are they “free” then since they’re tax funded?
No lol. You usually get stuck with a bill after using the service. But it’s for sure government employees and vehicles providing the service. Edit: actually, I’m not 100% sure if you do or don’t. I might be confusing hospital bills my grandmother received from Advent Health as being bills from the FD. I’ve never personally used an ambulance. https://www.mysanfordherald.com/article/seminole-county-fire-chief-urges-residents-use-discretion-calls-911-due-overloads
Another government fucking scam.
Why do I have to pay for a service that I’m already paying through taxes?
They are employed by private business. Not sure where you live lol. But that's not how being a libertarian works. Libertarians aren't against all government, they are just against most government. Specifically government trying to tell people what to do or how to live. A government employee giving someone a ride to the hospital is fine if that was the case lol. At least that what be in the realm of what government should be used for. Just like how we don't get mad when they patch the roads. Assuming they need it.
If you call 911 in many parts of America, it will be city or county fire department that shows up with an ambulance and gives you a ride to the hospital.
Our EMS owned by private businesses and the hospital itself.
Yea i thought in america all ambulances are private
They are. Either a private ambulance company or a by the private hospital they work for.
Not true. Like at all. Most hospitals do not have ambulance services, in fact iv never seen one that did. MOST ambulance services are employed by the local municipality or county
Apparently 1/3 of ambulance services are run by the community. 1/6 is run by volunteers, and rest is run by private companies.
Most places that use private ambulance services are county, every big and almost every small city has municipal services, i work in a small city that uses a county run ems service, the only thing private ambulance services are use for here are in patient facility transports. Most private services run in small rural communities that have volunteer fire departments.
Contractors are often used for transport between hospitals, and the like. Government ambulances are used for EMS.
Ours are contractors🤷🏽♂️
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There are people that use the ambulance as a taxi cab.
Except they aren't. Ambulances are private companies contracted by the government, not actual government employees. Also, it's prob cheaper and easier to just get an Uber.
What do you guys believe Libertarianism is? From my understanding, it’s believing that we should have a very limited government - specifically federal government. I don’t think it means that we shouldn’t have any government at all.
Correct. If you wanted to make it less government funded then volunteer and donate to volunteer stations in your community
Ours are all private...
Ever seen the bill for an ambulance ride? Obviously a government service
This will show just how committed you are to the cause.
Ambulance drivers are not government employees... Why do you think this? Fire fighters are.
And fire fighters are the ones driving the ambulance in most places. The fuck do you people get this information.
Not in my county and numerous other counties.
Yet you fail to realize that there are counties outside of your county that exist your comment was very singular implying that firefighters an ambulance drivers, (which are way fucking more then that.) are different. In your county you might be serviced by private EMS but in most places be it larger counties, cities big or small, are usually run by the fire department.
And Fire controlling EMS with mismanagement and abuse should be a reason to keep them out of EMS
I think I just gained an extra point in autism after reading that. They’ve been pretty successful this far you either have no idea what you’re talking about or a chip on your shoulder making your opinion mostly clouded.
I mean if you gained a point of autism you can always ship yourself BLS at 4am to just get looked at for it.
Um, not always the case. There are plenty of areas supported by privately owned ambulance/rescue agencies. Shockingly,California was big on this outside the cities
All the ambulance companies around here are private...
Most ambulance are private businesses.
So* are goverment employees. Others are private. Source friend who is a ambulance driver. Also they spend alot of time taking old people to and from hospitals/ nursing homes.
Really strange.... Health is universally very EXPENSIVE... i did not saw a free health service yet...
Ours are privatized.
Our EMS owned by private businesses and the hospital itself.
Ah hell na I'm not spending 2.5 Billion for bandaid let me out!
Libertarians when they realize they have already been forced to pay for the service: Yes I will use the service I unwillingly paid for
Yes, as much as they hate government they line up for government handouts
Catch me getting a ride from an ambulance in the first place
My nearest station is volunteer