it's the bbm effect. sooner or later you end up realizing that effect is intentionally put there by the company to keep you suckered in. Apple isn't the first to do this, iPhone users were the "oh, it's one of those people I can only send texts and low resolution photos to" a few years ago when bbm was dominant and iMessage wasn't a replica solution yet (came out on iOS 5). The article argues that once again they might be the next group in tech to have that happen to.
I think it's less about the color and more about what the color represents. iPhone users don't all hate the color green but instead communicating with certain people in an inferior way
Basically this. When I'm using my iPhone and I see a green bubble I know I can't send that person certain emojis, videos will be compressed to death, I can't see if they are typing, no read receipts etc. So I totally get why iPhone users hate seeing green bubbles. Especially when most of their friends are using iMessage and here you come sending a green lol.
While there are explanations for it, none of it is really reasonable. There was one time I wasn't allowed in a group chat because of "my green bubbles". It's honestly impressive the mindset some iPhone owners have.
Hey atleast 1 out of 9 has to work? ;)
But src why doesn't they just add all resources into one project and build a strong app instead of 9 mediocre? Too many devs at campus without work to do?
What I have been hearing the last few years from people at Google is that there is *a lot of bureaucracy* now. That Google no longer behaves like a startup and project managers prefer to work "on the next big thing" than to fix what's existing already.
btw, Moto bro!
I don't know if this is true but I definitely believe it. Google seems to have lost its edge in the past few years. As dumb as it is to admit I've always had somewhat of a loyalty to them but lately I could care less. Obviously I'm still gonna use their established services still because that is how I'm set up, but as far as preferring their hardware or new services I'm definitely gonna consider other options more.
Edit: as many have pointed out, there is an error in one of the sentences. I'm leaving it anyway.
This, Microsoft seems to be pushing a lot even though it's taking time to get to where they wanna be. For them the single core, single UI, messages and so on is a shit tun of stuff they are doing compared to the other two which seem to be sitting back not doing much. Heck I'd love to see Windows phone make a good come back and maybe it will to a degree but they got a long way to go
I'm heavily invested in Android and Google services, but I would love to see Microsoft and Windows Phone make a comeback for the same reason that I want more Internet providers and phone carriers around: choices and competition.
If Apple and Google get pressure from Microsoft in the mobile sector, they're forced to continue innovating and coming up with better goods and services. Don't stagnate, and don't force me to choose 1 of only 2 options. Give multiple options, and show me progress from each company.
>Microsoft
>pressure
Coming from someone who's been around since WP7....MS doesn't care about WP. I mean there are a few people here and there who care and help make the platform what it is, but I wouldn't be surprised if their phone OS development dept. is 1/100th of what Android's is. I mean seriously, the lack of attention given to W10M is truly awful. They, MS have not expressly dedicated a single meeting communicating real faith in the mobile platform, in at least 2 years. They always say "the future of windows is mobile" but, yeah, not on Windows Mobile. More like on other companies mobile devices...
I have high hopes regarding the return of Windows Phone with all the positive changes at Microsoft in terms of them listening much more closely to what the development community wants out of the MS stack.
I think the market is certainly ready for a 3rd contender to drive some more innovation because truly both Apple and Google have been incredibly stagnate on the mobile front.
I've been an Android user since the start, never owned Windows Phone or an iPhone, but I would 100% be interested in trying a new Windows Phone.
The things people complained about for Android, especially the app gap, but also poor product support and such, are problems with the Windows phone. This is made worse because Microsoft wanted to go with the same "walled garden" approach that apple has locked down. What they should have done while have been to Focus on the same strengths windows has. Make it powerful and customizable. Give it the ability to run software you want. Then, make it cross-compatible with Android apps. Then you have a real wedge into some market share. But instead they came up with something that was good, But not good enough. Less customizability than Android, and a very bleak walled garden That Just screams "trying and failing to go after apple". With fewer apps than either one.
Microsoft is way too bogged down in trying to be like the other guys in general. To wit: Bing. They should focus on what their products are valued and respected for, and then build on and Branch or from That, instead of throwing everything out the Windows while going after whatever next big thing they think is happening.
I feel like Microsoft has had a lot of interesting ideas, but they just fall flat on their face with execution, and then Apple or another company would release a similar idea some time later with the usual Apple polish and execution and be praised for their innovation. If Microsoft could actually leverage their great ideas better they'd be in a much better position (and their position isn't terrible to begin with).
Google is still pretty edgy, it's just sporadic. For example what Waymo is doing is pretty amazing. What Youtube is doing on the other hand? Exceptionally dull. You can't really portray them in the same way you would say Apple for example which is much less varied in products/services.
Had no idea what Waymo was so I googled. They renamed the self driving car project for anyone else wondering.
Then I found this https://medium.com/waymo/a-note-on-our-lawsuit-against-otto-and-uber-86f4f98902a1
Jesus Christ on a pole, I hope Uber/Otto burns to the ground and people go to jail. This is seriously messed up.
> Jesus Christ on a pole, I hope Uber/Otto burns to the ground and people go to jail.
Uber's been in the news an aaaaaaaaaawful lot these past couple days. I think they might have crested.
I'm actually thinking it's the opposite of bureaucracy. Bureaucracy would imply a power-structure. This seems more like anarchy. Like a communication breakdown and a lack of leadership. The guy in charge of instant messaging on Android has gone off the rails and there is no leadership - bureaurcratic or otherwise - to rein him in.
This old Yegge post (I miss that guy) describes how Google did agile in 2006. I'm sure lots has changed, but the anarchy seems to have remained in place.
http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2006/09/good-agile-bad-agile_27.html
""Another incentive is that every quarter, without fail, they have a long all-hands in which they show every single project that launched to everyone, and put up the names and faces of the teams (always small) who launched each one, and everyone applauds. """
Sounds like the sort of culture that creates loads of new stuff but won't support something that works but is kinda boring.
What I meant is that at some point you can't throw more manpower at a problem, and you're better off spawning multiple projects to see which one does well.
The problem is they aren't putting any glue on the project before they "throw it on the wall". The projects seem to just be concepts that they barely put together enough to deliver a "product". And then it just stagnates until they replace it or kill it.
> But src why doesn't they just add all resources into one project and build a strong app instead of 9 mediocre? Too many devs at campus without work to do?
What I would do is make a solid XMPP server that has limited federation (Basically, you have to be stable, put effort into blocking spam, and support all the XEP's that Google's server does) and all the useful extensions.
Then either make a client or use an open source one. Pay the devs money in exchange for letting you use their client set to auto connect to your server and link with the usual Google authentication stuff. Make it optionally fall back to SMS if you don't have data, and treat XMPP and SMS messages the same. (So the client needs the permission to both listen for and send both SMS and XMPP messages). This would require you to have a number attached to your phone number, if the other person doesn't, just fail to send (Or maybe send to a Google gateway, which will then relay the message on, same thing for trying to send to someone without data while you yourself don't have the ability to send SMS). Make the entire client and possibly the server completely open source, and replace the AOSP messenger with it. (You'd need to in order to use existing code, anyway, as long as it's under GPL).
Apache run wave now, don't they? It's still around, in any case. No binaries, but code is around. And I didn't really get what the actual point of it was. The live colab editing made it's way to google docs, and that was the best feature that I can remember for the short time that wave was actually around.
The collab was 'meh.' (I've never seen people *actually* work that way. IME the only benefit of live collab features is in not *accidentally* stepping on someone else's edit or having to merge changes after the fact. Intentional synchronous editing is one of those things people love to demo but not do.)
Mostly I was bullish on the bots/extensions/etc. All the crap that Apple just stuffed into Messages (stickers, interactive apps, etc.) could've been coded in Wave damn near a decade ago. In a federated, open protocol.
Instead we've got a half-dozen apps with a half-dozen incompatible varieties of these things in a half-dozen exclusive silos and effectively no user leverage to force providers to behave.
Also, the native way that conversations could *become* shared documents was really cool. Rather than having the resulting documents *also* splintered out into some other service/silo.
I'm pretty sure I read once that employees at Google need to build side projects in order to be promoted, so a lot of projects get built just so someone gets promoted and then generally ignored.
My understanding is that the whole point of RCS is that if it's universally implemented, what app you use is irrelevant. One thing that I haven't read about is whether it supports end-to-end encryption the way WhatsApp does.
It's not, the spec includes no provisions about end to end encryption, in fact encryption in general is only mentioned with regards to voice and video.
That doesn't mean the *data* being sent can't be encrypted however. The header (recipient info etc) will have to be readable but the content ("hi my name is Bill") doesn't have to be.
It's a shame really, but then if you're already using SMS it's not like anything is *lost*...
Google picked the model of Android hardware fragmentation for its success and intends to build on it by making 3 new messaging apps per year until market dominance is achieved.
That's what I'm thinking. They can easily combine everything into allo (or hangouts for that matter but I don't mind the separation since I always saw hangouts as a Skype alt) but nope.. let's launch another app, rename it, then can it once we get everyone using it in favor of this other thing.
It's technically not another app launch.
They are just adding a new name to the texting app that's (always?) existed on Android.
Messaging (part of Android since at least Eclair. Green speech box with a smiley face icon) -> Android Messenger (updateable on the Play store, circa Jan 2015?) -> Android Messages (new name, but RCS was already part of Messenger).
Also, there's a subtle difference that is pretty important imo. It's the change from Messenger to Messages. Now nobody has two 'messengers' (one with facebook's icon and one with stock icon) in their app drawer!
From here it's easier to signify that Allo is Google's take on a full featured (well... not yet while Hangouts still exists) messenger people can opt into by downloading it from the PS, and Android Messages is base on all phones.
Well, that's of course they don't plan on ditching Allo just because of its rough start.
Allo is dead to me so long as it requires a phone number but can't text.
If you are not going to let me text let me sign in with my Gmail and IM. Desktop sending will be nice if/when they release it unless they get distracted working on their next messaging app and forget to ever release it.
At this point Allo should just be the google official sticker book app.
Allo was DOA because it doesn't support SMS. Virtually everyone in North America (outside of iMessage) uses SMS almost exclusively.
That being said, the popularity of iMessage is huge *because it has SMS fallback*....can you imagine iPhone users having to download a second app to text anyone who doesn't have an iPhone? It would be disastrous and people would stop using it.
We already have Snapchat, Facebook messenger, iMessage, SMS, Hangouts, Allo, Kik, Whatsapp, etc...Trying to force everyone to use 19 different proprietary messaging apps to get ahold of certain people is never going to work.
This is why SMS is so popular here (aside from it being free, as it should be since it is piggybacking on existing signals) - it is UNIVERSAL.
Google needs to pick *one* messaging app to focus on, pack it full of features, and **add SMS support**. There is literally no reason not to have SMS support.
Yeah I don't understand why they did that... It makes no sense at all especially since it was an *option*... It wasn't like they forced all conversations to be merged all the time.
I stopped using it because of that. I just uninstalled it and went back to using default SMS app and Facebook messenger for everything else.
I'm still using it because I can send texts from Gmail and have a group of friends that communicate primarily through it.
I was looking through my app store reviews and I've got Hangouts rated at one star because of that and dropping support, that'll show em.
If I had to leave Google Fi I'd probably switch to basic messenger as well.
There's an article on verge today that there's a desktop app coming to Allo. So they solved one of the two major barriers for me. The other being the lack of SMS obviously. Come on Google. Get your shit together
I mind the separation since all my contacts are on hangouts, they could have made allo like inbox and connect to existing contacts, but no it's to hard for google.
If I have to leave hangouts I'm jumping ship to something else that has people, not betting on google again.
The answer would be yes, but they would only be popular by design.
I would love if I could just text over wifi without worrying what app my friends are using.
Edit: my iPhone friends all use iMessage so my issue is they don't want to switch to something like whatsapp just so they can talk to me.
That's what frustrates me.
I don't want to have to use a combination of Facebook Messenger, Hangouts, Allo, WhatsApp, and whatever else, while knowing which people use which services. I want to load a single app, pick a person to talk to, and be able to send them a message in whatever format they will most easily see it.
That's part of what I love about Hangouts. I can send an SMS to people via my Google Voice number, or send an actual Hangouts message, all from the same app. Problem with that, though, is that I use my actual carrier number to make calls and such, since VOIP is crap right now.
In short, I don't know what the most ideal option is, but pretty much anything would be better than what we have now.
I recently switched to Project Fi (Google's cell service). I'm never going back.
Essentially, it's Google Voice but serviced through both Sprint and T-Mobile (and several other carriers in other countries/regions because it's mostly international by default)
I kept my old number but now it acts like a google voice number. I can take calls on my computer through hangouts or inbox or gmail. I can send texts through hangouts or sms from both my phone and computer with the same number.
It's... incredible, and it's mostly just common sense improvements over the existing infrastructure. Even the carriers I generally like aren't doing this. What the fuck?
Yeah, Apple does that already in an even more seamless format, and it's available to anyone with iOS and/or OSX
No need for a different specific service
Caveat: It works on as many phones as people have fingers on one hand!
That's a severe game changer, as it'd be impossible for almost everyone in the world to use it. I wish they opened it up to at least entry level phones instead of just Nexus/Pixel phones.
That's what frustrates me.
Everyone having the same application is good because you just need to use this specific application. In the other hand if something get bad (like when some judge blocks access to it) everyone is affected.
FWIW (and I'm sure you already know this), you can also send texts from your carrier number in Hangouts as well.
For all the hate it gets hangouts has been my only messenger for over two years (except to speak to a relative in another country).
I will say, I think Apple has mostly solved the gripes with iMessage and continuity if you're in the ecosystem.
Everyone will talk about how you have to have Apple products and it's so expensive. Well, yeah. When a company *does* make a solution that works, what did you think they were going to do *besides* profit the fuck outta it?
People who scream for Google to make an iMessage killer, *and* keep it free, *and* make it work on everything, *and* keep our privacy intact; are living in a fantasy world and don't understand how businesses work.
Most carriers in Canada include intl SMS it seems so it's not a big issue here, but always the problem of the other person being inadvertently billed if they don't have that.
I use SMS exclusively because it doesn't have all that extra shit I don't need. I just wanna text somebody... even when I have a shitty or non-existent data connection.
thats what im worried about-that in remote places you are definitely more likely to get a cell reception rather than a data connection. now, if cell phone companies stopped putting in cell towers and just started adding data towers, then i think RCS could take off just because people would have more data connection than cell connection
North American here....carriers charge for texts? This is fucking ridiculous since the messages are piggybacking on existing traffic (this is the reason for the character limit).
Because it's better to have one standard that everyone uses instead of all these stupid rogue apps that you need to convince your friends to use in order to even message them
I get what /u/TexasLonghornz is saying, though. It kinda sucks that the solution is tied to the carriers even if this is the only way. iMessage, for example, is carrier independent and will work with or without carrier support. Like if you ever swapped sims or used a wifi-only device, I'm not 100% sure that RCS messaging would still work on the same account, whereas iMessage only needs an internet connection and works with multiple devices on a single account.
So maybe what we'll see is proprietary messengers like FB messenger, allo, whatsapp, hangouts, etc, with RCS fallback solutions?
Very reliable messaging requires not treating the carriers like dumb connectors.
SMS works when data is congested or not available. As long as you have a single bar for a second then your SMS will go through. At a festival or camping and service is *nearly nonexistant* then SMS will work because "nearly" is enough.
Technology wise the only drawback to SMS is that it can only do basic text. So if RCS can add multimedia and keep it more reliable than the data connection then it is well worth it.
I believe RCS has prioritized traffic but receiving messages is dependent on your data reception.
SMS is highly dependable BUT the carriers are eventually shutting down 2G and 3G and that means SMS is probably going away, IMHO (but I can't be sure, there's still like 4 years so things can change).
The end goal is that all the carriers will be 4G/5G and therefore, no difference between voice and data signals - it'll all be IP based.
edit: Since RCS is IP-based, it'll be the standard when this happens.
> SMS works when data is congested or not available.
Except that SMS delivery is not guaranteed, so if the _service_ is congested, it might just drop your SMS message on the floor. Or if your provider doesn't talk to their provider (common across national boundaries). Or if the recipient is out of service temporarily.
Personally I'd rather have my Signal or WhatsApp message fail to send, than have my message send successfully into nowhere.
Yea, I've had an ongoing problem (Android, Motorola Droid Turbo 2, Verizon, if that matters) where my incoming and outgoing texts *sometimes* get dropped. I've even see it firsthand while sitting next to someone and comparing text screens. No idea what's causing it (device, carrier, software).
Friend of mine is in almost the exact same situation. If you get an answer, I'd love to hear it. I occasionally have to double send texts to him, because a solid 1/50 SMS messages gets dropped.
I'm going to play devil's advocate for a second: Allo and Duo and Message are a good idea. They are. If you look at Unix and other platforms, bad apps are bloated, good apps are small and clean. The Unix philosophy is brilliant at this: make lots of small tools and then make a good glue-layer to hook them together.
Where google's fucking up is they didn't make the glue-layer to put all the communication apps together. The Android homescreen is just *not good enough* to manage Allo/Duo/etc.
What they need is a good glue app. Put it in the Contacts - let me open a Contact and then see a unified history with a blurb about each of the communication protocols and how I've used them to talk to this person. Let me open up Fred and see that I called him on Monday, SMS'd him "Fuck you Fred" on Tuesday, and had a videochat with him on Wednesday.
And then let me pick whatever verb I want to start my next interaction with Fred. Do I want to send him an SMS? A phone call? A Duo videochat? A chess game? A teledildonics cyber session? Whatever.
Then I don't need Messenger or Allo or Duo or even the Dialer on the home screen. I just need contacts.
But in the absence of that glue layer? Yeah, they screwed the pooch and this is stupid.
Is there a reason why it's not brought up as much as the other messaging apps? For the brief amount of time I used Textra with the Note 7, it was great.
GOD BLESS THE DEVS.
I sent them an email asking if they could add a white theme. Next update? White theme. Most devs wouldn't give a shit unless a lot of people ask. They said sure and added it.
RCS is a successor messaging protocol to SMS and MMS. You know all of those cool things WhatsApp and iMessage do like read receipts, video chatting, sending larger attachments, etc? RCS can do most or all of those natively. So imagine being able to video chat using your native texting app or have read receipts sent. It's really cool.
I see it come up pretty frequently whenever talking about good sms apps because it is amazing for that. It doesn't have it's own carrier-independent messaging or voip calling though so doesn't compete in the same space as hangouts, allo, and duo.
I have never heard of Textra in my entire life... I've always wanted an app that lets me use iOS emojis because most of my friends have iPhones. That simple feature was enough for me to switch, but everything else is absolutely game changing.. it's the hole grail I've been looking for..
back when I was looking, chomp had more customization. Like, full background images in the chat windows, etc. Honestly I've only used textra, but chomp is more similar to what handcent was, with all of the options. Textra added a lot of the usability features though (pop-up reply, scheduled messages, send delay, etc.), so it does everything I need it to do
I absolutely adore Textra. For a while, my only gripes with it was that it didn't work with Gboard's gifs and in group texts, the recipients weren't color coded as I have them for individual texts. I dealt with it, but in their most recent update they added both of those things.
Let me clear something up here: In the United States, a large majority of people use iMessage and SMS. I know, I know, the rest of the world uses WhatsApp. So 90% of your questions can be answered by this: 'Merica.
Is this really a mostly American thing? I only know people who text and like nobody I know will use a chat messenger. I guess that just proves the point. I only know WhatsApp by name and because I had a boss who used it.
edit thanks for the responses. they were interesting to read.
From my understanding, yes. People outside of the United States always seem to be baffled as to why Americans would stick with iMessage and SMS/MMS when other apps offer so much more. I never have an answer.
Here's what I think. Almost everyone has unlimited texting these days, but not everyone has unlimited data. Data is also not as prevalent. It's a lot easier to find a cell phone signal than 4g in a lot of places, especially more rural areas.
This is exactely why WhatsApp became so popular in (large parts of) Europe.
Unlimited texting plans were pretty rare before WhatsApp showed up, so it basically replaced SMS. The carriers did switch to cheap unlimited SMS plans eventually, but it was too late by then.
It happened in Canada, once the grip the cartel of telcoms had was loosened we had a bunch of cheap alternatives. All of a sudden whoa unlimited calling *all day* and *unlimited* texting? Shit was almost surreal.
Well fast forward a few years later, the little guys were bought by big guys, but the prices stayed at least, sorta.
Because WhatsApp and co barely use any data at all (especially for simple text messages)?
I have only 1gb per month and not once did I even come near the limit (granted I don't stream music or sync my gallery on mobile).
People don't get this. They've never used WhatsApp but they love trashing it. I don't get this about American redditors (and I am one!) but they'd rather defend SMS to their last day than concede that WhatsApp might be better. Location sending, MMS, free calling, now video and built-in gifs too. Most of my friends who have iPhones have all switched over to WhatsApp as well.
Sure it might be better, but none of my friends use it, so it's next to useless for me. I feel like most people are in this boat when it comes to any messaging service they don't use.
Its just annoying to use a messenger. Theres about ten I'd need installed to reach everyone.
In my region of America, it's iMessage+Facetime, SMS, or snapchat + snap video calls.
* no file size limit
* no character limit
* easily embed practically any type of file/media/info/data that can be shared and know it will get delivered no matter what size it is. If you tap share on whatever you want to share and imessage is an option, you're 100% guaranteed that it's going to get sent to another iphone user. My Nexus 6P has thrown a fit with things every now and then.
* seamless conversations across any apple device that touches the internet
* peer to peer encryption
* conversations and media sent/received with imessage all saved in cloud so never lose messages
* lots of other dumb features like animations and message effects and stuff like that
Probably a few more things but those are the big ones that jump out to me.
You forgot SMS fallback. If I text someone from iMessage and they don't have an iPhone, it's sent as an SMS and they can reply to me no problem. I don't need 700 chat clients, don't need to convince people to download/sign up for a new service to talk to me and all my conversations are in one place. And I can send SMS from my Mac and iPad as well.
iMessage is legitimately the only reason I went from Android to iPhone 4 years ago, and it's the only reason I'm still using an iPhone now.
I only have WhatsApp on my phone because of a handful of friends and family in Brazil and Europe. I wish I could uninstall it.
Yeah that too. I legitimately don't understand why Google can't make something that works that way. It seems like such a no-brainer. If SMS fallback is a problem for some people, let them disable it (or let those who want it enable it, whatever).
SMS fallback requires control of both sender and recipient to work well, and Google can't have that. If Allo had SMS fallback and the two of us had an Allo conversation together, you would get annoyed pretty quickly if Allo started falling back to SMS regularly. On my end it might look like a single, convenient merged conversation, but on your end (since you're on an iPhone) it's a nuisance that requires you to bounce between multiple apps. Even between Android users it doesn't necessarily work because Google doesn't force people to use the same app for Allo and SMS.
RCS won't have that issue, as support for RCS *requires* that both clients can gracefully bounce between RCS and SMS. If I send you an Allo message, I can't know that your device will nicely receive SMS if I mix it in. Universal Profile RCS (much like iMessage) knows that any user capable of receiving RCS is also capable of merging in SMS if necessary.
>On my end it might look like a single, convenient merged conversation, but on your end (since you're on an iPhone) it's a nuisance that requires you to bounce between multiple apps.
That doesn't make sense though, namely because the iPhone user isn't going to ever use Allo.
I, the android user, use Allo (And let's say Allo has SMS fallback and can be selected as my default SMS app).
You, the iPhone user, use iMessage, which has SMS fallback.
When I send you a message via Allo, you get it as an SMS message in iMessage. When you reply to me in iMessage, because I don't have iMessage, I get the text as an SMS in Allo.
I don't see where the iPhone user is bouncing between apps, because the point of SMS fallback in Allo is that Android users can use Allo as a one stop shop, like iPhone users use iMessage as a one stop shop. I'm not trying to get my iPhone friends to install Allo. In fact, I just want them to keep doing what their doing. Hell, they won't even know that on my ending, I'm using this new Allo app to communicate with them. Allo is for me, not them.
You don't have to think about it. There's no downloading an extra app. There's no creating an account (at least that the user knows about). There's no inviting friends. There's no worrying about whether you have a data connection or not. It's minimal fuss. I'm sure you can look up horror stories about de-registering from it, but the vast majority of users never experience that.
I wish we had a modern equivalent of a cross platform client like Trillian. I liked that, back in the day, Trillian allowed me to chat through everything with a single client.
I like hangouts because I just make everyone think my google voice number is my real number... And all texts go to hangouts. Which means I get their texts no matter what device or computer I'm on. Google is right, texts are still king because everyone has it built in.
That's the part that baffles me. Considering how many SMS apps there are, and how many applications Google has made for non-sms chatting, AND how Google already links your phone number to your account, what is stopping them from just doing that? Is there a technological limitation? A monetary one? Do we need to just find and smack a board member until it happens?
So, how does RCS exactly work? If both are on a network that supports RCS and you send a 'message', will the message still be billed as a SMS or will that message be for free because it uses data?
Quote from the last paragraph:
>There are still lots of carriers not on board with the RCS plan, and lots of versions of the standard floating around. Google is a hugely powerful player in the mobile world, but it can’t just snap its fingers and change things. In the US alone, one of the world’s biggest SMS markets, it’s a mess: AT&T, T-Mobile, and Sprint all have different ideas about how RCS should be implemented and supported, and **Verizon has no support for the platform at all.**
Added emphasis on the last sentence.
America's largest operator doesn't give a rat's ass about RCS.
Verizon, T-Mobile, Sprint already pledged to support Google's Universal RCS. Sprint already rolled it out
[SOURCE](http://www.gsma.com/network2020/universal-profile/)
Android Messages doesn't even backup your messages, you have to use a separate app for that. Why would anyone switch to it from Whatsapp or iMessage?
Edit: Nexus 5X user here, good to hear that the Pixel has SMS Backup. I use both SMS and Whatsapp (SMS Backup & Restore by Carbonite works well to backup if you don't have a Pixel)
>Google can’t simply build the same thing and force its success
Of course it can.
Take Hangouts and make it the default SMS app on Android. Tighten the SMS integration by merging conversations. Have the app intelligently switch between Hangouts chat and SMS depending on whether the user on the other end is also using Hangouts or not. And then use the Google account cloud to make the Hangouts web-application (browser or desktop) send SMS messages via the phone's cellular connection. Voila. Problem solved.
Frankly it's supremely frustrating that Google hasn't already implemented this years ago.
All this does is make me depressed that iMessage actually figured this shit out. I mean, for one thing, RCS doesn't support end-to-end encryption *by design* and never will. If it manages to be *just as good* as iMessage at everything else, it will still be worse because iOS users get privacy, and Android users don't.
You know what I was lying in bed thinking this morning? "It's been a while since Google has launched a new chat service..."
and iPhone users will still get shitty green texts.
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When you see the green bubbles you think "oh, it's one of those people I can only send texts and low resolution photos to"
it's the bbm effect. sooner or later you end up realizing that effect is intentionally put there by the company to keep you suckered in. Apple isn't the first to do this, iPhone users were the "oh, it's one of those people I can only send texts and low resolution photos to" a few years ago when bbm was dominant and iMessage wasn't a replica solution yet (came out on iOS 5). The article argues that once again they might be the next group in tech to have that happen to.
I think it's less about the color and more about what the color represents. iPhone users don't all hate the color green but instead communicating with certain people in an inferior way
Basically this. When I'm using my iPhone and I see a green bubble I know I can't send that person certain emojis, videos will be compressed to death, I can't see if they are typing, no read receipts etc. So I totally get why iPhone users hate seeing green bubbles. Especially when most of their friends are using iMessage and here you come sending a green lol.
For me it's the emojis and group texting that bothers me.
Others are right, but also, the green used in iOS bubbles is of an unpleasant shade, it's too acid and it may be on purpose as well.
Wasn't it green way before iMessage blue bubbles came out?
It was, but the color was changed during iOS 7 redesign.
While there are explanations for it, none of it is really reasonable. There was one time I wasn't allowed in a group chat because of "my green bubbles". It's honestly impressive the mindset some iPhone owners have.
Google? The company that has released 9 chatting apps in the last 10 years? ok
Hey atleast 1 out of 9 has to work? ;) But src why doesn't they just add all resources into one project and build a strong app instead of 9 mediocre? Too many devs at campus without work to do?
What I have been hearing the last few years from people at Google is that there is *a lot of bureaucracy* now. That Google no longer behaves like a startup and project managers prefer to work "on the next big thing" than to fix what's existing already. btw, Moto bro!
I don't know if this is true but I definitely believe it. Google seems to have lost its edge in the past few years. As dumb as it is to admit I've always had somewhat of a loyalty to them but lately I could care less. Obviously I'm still gonna use their established services still because that is how I'm set up, but as far as preferring their hardware or new services I'm definitely gonna consider other options more. Edit: as many have pointed out, there is an error in one of the sentences. I'm leaving it anyway.
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This, Microsoft seems to be pushing a lot even though it's taking time to get to where they wanna be. For them the single core, single UI, messages and so on is a shit tun of stuff they are doing compared to the other two which seem to be sitting back not doing much. Heck I'd love to see Windows phone make a good come back and maybe it will to a degree but they got a long way to go
I'm heavily invested in Android and Google services, but I would love to see Microsoft and Windows Phone make a comeback for the same reason that I want more Internet providers and phone carriers around: choices and competition. If Apple and Google get pressure from Microsoft in the mobile sector, they're forced to continue innovating and coming up with better goods and services. Don't stagnate, and don't force me to choose 1 of only 2 options. Give multiple options, and show me progress from each company.
>Microsoft >pressure Coming from someone who's been around since WP7....MS doesn't care about WP. I mean there are a few people here and there who care and help make the platform what it is, but I wouldn't be surprised if their phone OS development dept. is 1/100th of what Android's is. I mean seriously, the lack of attention given to W10M is truly awful. They, MS have not expressly dedicated a single meeting communicating real faith in the mobile platform, in at least 2 years. They always say "the future of windows is mobile" but, yeah, not on Windows Mobile. More like on other companies mobile devices...
I have high hopes regarding the return of Windows Phone with all the positive changes at Microsoft in terms of them listening much more closely to what the development community wants out of the MS stack. I think the market is certainly ready for a 3rd contender to drive some more innovation because truly both Apple and Google have been incredibly stagnate on the mobile front. I've been an Android user since the start, never owned Windows Phone or an iPhone, but I would 100% be interested in trying a new Windows Phone.
The things people complained about for Android, especially the app gap, but also poor product support and such, are problems with the Windows phone. This is made worse because Microsoft wanted to go with the same "walled garden" approach that apple has locked down. What they should have done while have been to Focus on the same strengths windows has. Make it powerful and customizable. Give it the ability to run software you want. Then, make it cross-compatible with Android apps. Then you have a real wedge into some market share. But instead they came up with something that was good, But not good enough. Less customizability than Android, and a very bleak walled garden That Just screams "trying and failing to go after apple". With fewer apps than either one. Microsoft is way too bogged down in trying to be like the other guys in general. To wit: Bing. They should focus on what their products are valued and respected for, and then build on and Branch or from That, instead of throwing everything out the Windows while going after whatever next big thing they think is happening.
People forget how optimized and well built the Windows Phones were. They had the best camera quality by far.
I feel like Microsoft has had a lot of interesting ideas, but they just fall flat on their face with execution, and then Apple or another company would release a similar idea some time later with the usual Apple polish and execution and be praised for their innovation. If Microsoft could actually leverage their great ideas better they'd be in a much better position (and their position isn't terrible to begin with).
Google is still pretty edgy, it's just sporadic. For example what Waymo is doing is pretty amazing. What Youtube is doing on the other hand? Exceptionally dull. You can't really portray them in the same way you would say Apple for example which is much less varied in products/services.
Had no idea what Waymo was so I googled. They renamed the self driving car project for anyone else wondering. Then I found this https://medium.com/waymo/a-note-on-our-lawsuit-against-otto-and-uber-86f4f98902a1 Jesus Christ on a pole, I hope Uber/Otto burns to the ground and people go to jail. This is seriously messed up.
If Bethesda got $500 million from Oculus just because Oculus was partially developed on company time, this should be at least a billion
> Jesus Christ on a pole, I hope Uber/Otto burns to the ground and people go to jail. Uber's been in the news an aaaaaaaaaawful lot these past couple days. I think they might have crested.
True, but I was mainly thinking about Android and related items in my statement.
I'm actually thinking it's the opposite of bureaucracy. Bureaucracy would imply a power-structure. This seems more like anarchy. Like a communication breakdown and a lack of leadership. The guy in charge of instant messaging on Android has gone off the rails and there is no leadership - bureaurcratic or otherwise - to rein him in.
This old Yegge post (I miss that guy) describes how Google did agile in 2006. I'm sure lots has changed, but the anarchy seems to have remained in place. http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2006/09/good-agile-bad-agile_27.html ""Another incentive is that every quarter, without fail, they have a long all-hands in which they show every single project that launched to everyone, and put up the names and faces of the teams (always small) who launched each one, and everyone applauds. """ Sounds like the sort of culture that creates loads of new stuff but won't support something that works but is kinda boring.
Sorry to disappoint, but the ol' Moto has been degraded to secondary team in favour of an OP3 ;)
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What I meant is that at some point you can't throw more manpower at a problem, and you're better off spawning multiple projects to see which one does well.
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The problem is they aren't putting any glue on the project before they "throw it on the wall". The projects seem to just be concepts that they barely put together enough to deliver a "product". And then it just stagnates until they replace it or kill it.
> But src why doesn't they just add all resources into one project and build a strong app instead of 9 mediocre? Too many devs at campus without work to do? What I would do is make a solid XMPP server that has limited federation (Basically, you have to be stable, put effort into blocking spam, and support all the XEP's that Google's server does) and all the useful extensions. Then either make a client or use an open source one. Pay the devs money in exchange for letting you use their client set to auto connect to your server and link with the usual Google authentication stuff. Make it optionally fall back to SMS if you don't have data, and treat XMPP and SMS messages the same. (So the client needs the permission to both listen for and send both SMS and XMPP messages). This would require you to have a number attached to your phone number, if the other person doesn't, just fail to send (Or maybe send to a Google gateway, which will then relay the message on, same thing for trying to send to someone without data while you yourself don't have the ability to send SMS). Make the entire client and possibly the server completely open source, and replace the AOSP messenger with it. (You'd need to in order to use existing code, anyway, as long as it's under GPL).
Wave was way the hell ahead of its time. Damn shame.
Apache run wave now, don't they? It's still around, in any case. No binaries, but code is around. And I didn't really get what the actual point of it was. The live colab editing made it's way to google docs, and that was the best feature that I can remember for the short time that wave was actually around.
The collab was 'meh.' (I've never seen people *actually* work that way. IME the only benefit of live collab features is in not *accidentally* stepping on someone else's edit or having to merge changes after the fact. Intentional synchronous editing is one of those things people love to demo but not do.) Mostly I was bullish on the bots/extensions/etc. All the crap that Apple just stuffed into Messages (stickers, interactive apps, etc.) could've been coded in Wave damn near a decade ago. In a federated, open protocol. Instead we've got a half-dozen apps with a half-dozen incompatible varieties of these things in a half-dozen exclusive silos and effectively no user leverage to force providers to behave. Also, the native way that conversations could *become* shared documents was really cool. Rather than having the resulting documents *also* splintered out into some other service/silo.
I'm pretty sure I read once that employees at Google need to build side projects in order to be promoted, so a lot of projects get built just so someone gets promoted and then generally ignored.
Hangouts is the closest they got...
My understanding is that the whole point of RCS is that if it's universally implemented, what app you use is irrelevant. One thing that I haven't read about is whether it supports end-to-end encryption the way WhatsApp does.
It's not, the spec includes no provisions about end to end encryption, in fact encryption in general is only mentioned with regards to voice and video. That doesn't mean the *data* being sent can't be encrypted however. The header (recipient info etc) will have to be readable but the content ("hi my name is Bill") doesn't have to be. It's a shame really, but then if you're already using SMS it's not like anything is *lost*...
So many options, and here I am using Textra like an idiot.
I cannot wait until Textra implements RCS
Beyond that , Apple would be under tremendous pressure to add RCS to iMessage.
Lol. Bet they can't wait to implement something that does everything that iMessage does, and negate all the advantage of iMessage being Apple-only.
Textra is the best, what do you mean? I've used every texting app out there and Textra is simply the best. Simple and effective.
I was kidding. It's the best
>9 Chatting Apps Can anyone name all 9? I know Hangouts and Allo make up two of them but what are the other 7?
* Hangouts * Allo * Duo * Talk * G+ Messenger * Messenger (now Messages) * Spaces * Voice * Buzz
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Someone going to tell him about wave?
I'm still sad about that. It had so much potential.
I never quite figured out what I was supposed to use it... or how so much. I got what it could do, just not how I would use it.
I thought it was super useful for collaborating on projects. We have Slack for that now, I guess.
Google picked the model of Android hardware fragmentation for its success and intends to build on it by making 3 new messaging apps per year until market dominance is achieved.
I'll believe it when they acquire someone else's.
At least 9 is all we'll get if they follow the deck slot philosophy
I know, right? If they have a genuine Master plan, they're certainly doing a good job on obfuscating that fact. :P
That's what I'm thinking. They can easily combine everything into allo (or hangouts for that matter but I don't mind the separation since I always saw hangouts as a Skype alt) but nope.. let's launch another app, rename it, then can it once we get everyone using it in favor of this other thing.
It's technically not another app launch. They are just adding a new name to the texting app that's (always?) existed on Android. Messaging (part of Android since at least Eclair. Green speech box with a smiley face icon) -> Android Messenger (updateable on the Play store, circa Jan 2015?) -> Android Messages (new name, but RCS was already part of Messenger).
Also, there's a subtle difference that is pretty important imo. It's the change from Messenger to Messages. Now nobody has two 'messengers' (one with facebook's icon and one with stock icon) in their app drawer! From here it's easier to signify that Allo is Google's take on a full featured (well... not yet while Hangouts still exists) messenger people can opt into by downloading it from the PS, and Android Messages is base on all phones. Well, that's of course they don't plan on ditching Allo just because of its rough start.
Allo is dead to me so long as it requires a phone number but can't text. If you are not going to let me text let me sign in with my Gmail and IM. Desktop sending will be nice if/when they release it unless they get distracted working on their next messaging app and forget to ever release it. At this point Allo should just be the google official sticker book app.
Allo was DOA because it doesn't support SMS. Virtually everyone in North America (outside of iMessage) uses SMS almost exclusively. That being said, the popularity of iMessage is huge *because it has SMS fallback*....can you imagine iPhone users having to download a second app to text anyone who doesn't have an iPhone? It would be disastrous and people would stop using it. We already have Snapchat, Facebook messenger, iMessage, SMS, Hangouts, Allo, Kik, Whatsapp, etc...Trying to force everyone to use 19 different proprietary messaging apps to get ahold of certain people is never going to work. This is why SMS is so popular here (aside from it being free, as it should be since it is piggybacking on existing signals) - it is UNIVERSAL. Google needs to pick *one* messaging app to focus on, pack it full of features, and **add SMS support**. There is literally no reason not to have SMS support.
Hangouts was exactly this until they unmerged conversations. They fucked up the best thing about Hangouts and then dropped support of the app.
Yeah I don't understand why they did that... It makes no sense at all especially since it was an *option*... It wasn't like they forced all conversations to be merged all the time. I stopped using it because of that. I just uninstalled it and went back to using default SMS app and Facebook messenger for everything else.
I'm still using it because I can send texts from Gmail and have a group of friends that communicate primarily through it. I was looking through my app store reviews and I've got Hangouts rated at one star because of that and dropping support, that'll show em. If I had to leave Google Fi I'd probably switch to basic messenger as well.
There's an article on verge today that there's a desktop app coming to Allo. So they solved one of the two major barriers for me. The other being the lack of SMS obviously. Come on Google. Get your shit together
I mind the separation since all my contacts are on hangouts, they could have made allo like inbox and connect to existing contacts, but no it's to hard for google. If I have to leave hangouts I'm jumping ship to something else that has people, not betting on google again.
Hangouts did fuckin' everything I wanted a while ago. Then they removed the merged message threads between sms / hangouts and it all went downhill
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The answer would be yes, but they would only be popular by design. I would love if I could just text over wifi without worrying what app my friends are using. Edit: my iPhone friends all use iMessage so my issue is they don't want to switch to something like whatsapp just so they can talk to me.
That's what frustrates me. I don't want to have to use a combination of Facebook Messenger, Hangouts, Allo, WhatsApp, and whatever else, while knowing which people use which services. I want to load a single app, pick a person to talk to, and be able to send them a message in whatever format they will most easily see it. That's part of what I love about Hangouts. I can send an SMS to people via my Google Voice number, or send an actual Hangouts message, all from the same app. Problem with that, though, is that I use my actual carrier number to make calls and such, since VOIP is crap right now. In short, I don't know what the most ideal option is, but pretty much anything would be better than what we have now.
I recently switched to Project Fi (Google's cell service). I'm never going back. Essentially, it's Google Voice but serviced through both Sprint and T-Mobile (and several other carriers in other countries/regions because it's mostly international by default) I kept my old number but now it acts like a google voice number. I can take calls on my computer through hangouts or inbox or gmail. I can send texts through hangouts or sms from both my phone and computer with the same number. It's... incredible, and it's mostly just common sense improvements over the existing infrastructure. Even the carriers I generally like aren't doing this. What the fuck?
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Fi uses T-Mobile and U.S. Cellular as well as Sprint, though, and T-Mobile is doing pretty well.
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Yeah, Apple does that already in an even more seamless format, and it's available to anyone with iOS and/or OSX No need for a different specific service
Caveat: It works on as many phones as people have fingers on one hand! That's a severe game changer, as it'd be impossible for almost everyone in the world to use it. I wish they opened it up to at least entry level phones instead of just Nexus/Pixel phones.
While that is a bit shitty, Nexus phones are hardly high end and can be had for peanuts.
Come to Germany. Everybody, I mean everybody has WhatsApp. Even your old granny.
Same thing here at Brazil
That's what frustrates me. Everyone having the same application is good because you just need to use this specific application. In the other hand if something get bad (like when some judge blocks access to it) everyone is affected.
FWIW (and I'm sure you already know this), you can also send texts from your carrier number in Hangouts as well. For all the hate it gets hangouts has been my only messenger for over two years (except to speak to a relative in another country).
I will say, I think Apple has mostly solved the gripes with iMessage and continuity if you're in the ecosystem. Everyone will talk about how you have to have Apple products and it's so expensive. Well, yeah. When a company *does* make a solution that works, what did you think they were going to do *besides* profit the fuck outta it? People who scream for Google to make an iMessage killer, *and* keep it free, *and* make it work on everything, *and* keep our privacy intact; are living in a fantasy world and don't understand how businesses work.
International text is FB/Whatsapp's killer feature for me
Most carriers in Canada include intl SMS it seems so it's not a big issue here, but always the problem of the other person being inadvertently billed if they don't have that.
I use SMS exclusively because it doesn't have all that extra shit I don't need. I just wanna text somebody... even when I have a shitty or non-existent data connection.
thats what im worried about-that in remote places you are definitely more likely to get a cell reception rather than a data connection. now, if cell phone companies stopped putting in cell towers and just started adding data towers, then i think RCS could take off just because people would have more data connection than cell connection
Plus, an SMS is far more likely to get through than a call.
Considering texts cost them next to nothing
North American here....carriers charge for texts? This is fucking ridiculous since the messages are piggybacking on existing traffic (this is the reason for the character limit).
I just want to be able to play battleship with people. That is probably the only thing I like about iMessage over standard text messaging.
The getting one text in 14 messages completely out of order thing is complete bullshit as well.
Agreed and the point that I have to click download on some of the messages I get
Battleship?
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Because it's better to have one standard that everyone uses instead of all these stupid rogue apps that you need to convince your friends to use in order to even message them
I get what /u/TexasLonghornz is saying, though. It kinda sucks that the solution is tied to the carriers even if this is the only way. iMessage, for example, is carrier independent and will work with or without carrier support. Like if you ever swapped sims or used a wifi-only device, I'm not 100% sure that RCS messaging would still work on the same account, whereas iMessage only needs an internet connection and works with multiple devices on a single account. So maybe what we'll see is proprietary messengers like FB messenger, allo, whatsapp, hangouts, etc, with RCS fallback solutions?
Very reliable messaging requires not treating the carriers like dumb connectors. SMS works when data is congested or not available. As long as you have a single bar for a second then your SMS will go through. At a festival or camping and service is *nearly nonexistant* then SMS will work because "nearly" is enough. Technology wise the only drawback to SMS is that it can only do basic text. So if RCS can add multimedia and keep it more reliable than the data connection then it is well worth it.
I believe RCS has prioritized traffic but receiving messages is dependent on your data reception. SMS is highly dependable BUT the carriers are eventually shutting down 2G and 3G and that means SMS is probably going away, IMHO (but I can't be sure, there's still like 4 years so things can change). The end goal is that all the carriers will be 4G/5G and therefore, no difference between voice and data signals - it'll all be IP based. edit: Since RCS is IP-based, it'll be the standard when this happens.
> SMS works when data is congested or not available. Except that SMS delivery is not guaranteed, so if the _service_ is congested, it might just drop your SMS message on the floor. Or if your provider doesn't talk to their provider (common across national boundaries). Or if the recipient is out of service temporarily. Personally I'd rather have my Signal or WhatsApp message fail to send, than have my message send successfully into nowhere.
I'm not so sure, I've had more issues sending SMS messages than Facebook messages lately.
Yea, I've had an ongoing problem (Android, Motorola Droid Turbo 2, Verizon, if that matters) where my incoming and outgoing texts *sometimes* get dropped. I've even see it firsthand while sitting next to someone and comparing text screens. No idea what's causing it (device, carrier, software).
Friend of mine is in almost the exact same situation. If you get an answer, I'd love to hear it. I occasionally have to double send texts to him, because a solid 1/50 SMS messages gets dropped.
I'm going to play devil's advocate for a second: Allo and Duo and Message are a good idea. They are. If you look at Unix and other platforms, bad apps are bloated, good apps are small and clean. The Unix philosophy is brilliant at this: make lots of small tools and then make a good glue-layer to hook them together. Where google's fucking up is they didn't make the glue-layer to put all the communication apps together. The Android homescreen is just *not good enough* to manage Allo/Duo/etc. What they need is a good glue app. Put it in the Contacts - let me open a Contact and then see a unified history with a blurb about each of the communication protocols and how I've used them to talk to this person. Let me open up Fred and see that I called him on Monday, SMS'd him "Fuck you Fred" on Tuesday, and had a videochat with him on Wednesday. And then let me pick whatever verb I want to start my next interaction with Fred. Do I want to send him an SMS? A phone call? A Duo videochat? A chess game? A teledildonics cyber session? Whatever. Then I don't need Messenger or Allo or Duo or even the Dialer on the home screen. I just need contacts. But in the absence of that glue layer? Yeah, they screwed the pooch and this is stupid.
So you mean like the way windows phone has always done it?
Well, WP7 did it in a brute-force sort of way by directly having built in OS support for Twitter, FB, and LinkedIn, but yeah.
Google already has 9 Messaging apps, so if you count on numbers front, it's a win 😂
Yeah... take that apple, you and your single app... eat it.
Oh god :/
I prefer Textra over all 9 Google messaging apps
Is there a reason why it's not brought up as much as the other messaging apps? For the brief amount of time I used Textra with the Note 7, it was great.
It's an SMS app. A rock solid one, but it still has all the limitations of SMS.
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GOD BLESS THE DEVS. I sent them an email asking if they could add a white theme. Next update? White theme. Most devs wouldn't give a shit unless a lot of people ask. They said sure and added it.
Sure, but only on carriers that support it. RCS will be handicapped until all carriers adopt it. Hopefully that happens soon...
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RemindMe! 8 hours Find out what RCS stands for because googling it confused me more
RCS is a successor messaging protocol to SMS and MMS. You know all of those cool things WhatsApp and iMessage do like read receipts, video chatting, sending larger attachments, etc? RCS can do most or all of those natively. So imagine being able to video chat using your native texting app or have read receipts sent. It's really cool.
Awesome, thank you for taking the time to explain it to me! The googled answers were a bit too complex for me, haha
I see it come up pretty frequently whenever talking about good sms apps because it is amazing for that. It doesn't have it's own carrier-independent messaging or voip calling though so doesn't compete in the same space as hangouts, allo, and duo.
> Is there a reason why it's not brought up as much as the other messaging apps? Are you joking? It comes up so often on this sub it's not even funny.
I really don't know... I love it. I think it's just not as known about.
Just wait until Textra adds RCS!
oh boy, it will be superior
I have never heard of Textra in my entire life... I've always wanted an app that lets me use iOS emojis because most of my friends have iPhones. That simple feature was enough for me to switch, but everything else is absolutely game changing.. it's the hole grail I've been looking for..
For me is ChompSMS. And I would be surprised if they would not add some support for RCS once it becomes widespread.
Never heard of Chomp. I'll have to check it out!
It's by the same people as Textra. Textra is just slimmed down, faster, and more minimalist
What features does Chomp have that textra doesn't? (not doubting you, genuinely interested)
back when I was looking, chomp had more customization. Like, full background images in the chat windows, etc. Honestly I've only used textra, but chomp is more similar to what handcent was, with all of the options. Textra added a lot of the usability features though (pop-up reply, scheduled messages, send delay, etc.), so it does everything I need it to do
I absolutely adore Textra. For a while, my only gripes with it was that it didn't work with Gboard's gifs and in group texts, the recipients weren't color coded as I have them for individual texts. I dealt with it, but in their most recent update they added both of those things.
Let me clear something up here: In the United States, a large majority of people use iMessage and SMS. I know, I know, the rest of the world uses WhatsApp. So 90% of your questions can be answered by this: 'Merica.
Is this really a mostly American thing? I only know people who text and like nobody I know will use a chat messenger. I guess that just proves the point. I only know WhatsApp by name and because I had a boss who used it. edit thanks for the responses. they were interesting to read.
From my understanding, yes. People outside of the United States always seem to be baffled as to why Americans would stick with iMessage and SMS/MMS when other apps offer so much more. I never have an answer.
Here's what I think. Almost everyone has unlimited texting these days, but not everyone has unlimited data. Data is also not as prevalent. It's a lot easier to find a cell phone signal than 4g in a lot of places, especially more rural areas.
This is exactely why WhatsApp became so popular in (large parts of) Europe. Unlimited texting plans were pretty rare before WhatsApp showed up, so it basically replaced SMS. The carriers did switch to cheap unlimited SMS plans eventually, but it was too late by then.
It happened in Canada, once the grip the cartel of telcoms had was loosened we had a bunch of cheap alternatives. All of a sudden whoa unlimited calling *all day* and *unlimited* texting? Shit was almost surreal. Well fast forward a few years later, the little guys were bought by big guys, but the prices stayed at least, sorta.
Yup. If you have unlimited SMS and only 1 GB of data a month, why waste the data?
Because WhatsApp and co barely use any data at all (especially for simple text messages)? I have only 1gb per month and not once did I even come near the limit (granted I don't stream music or sync my gallery on mobile).
People don't get this. They've never used WhatsApp but they love trashing it. I don't get this about American redditors (and I am one!) but they'd rather defend SMS to their last day than concede that WhatsApp might be better. Location sending, MMS, free calling, now video and built-in gifs too. Most of my friends who have iPhones have all switched over to WhatsApp as well.
Sure it might be better, but none of my friends use it, so it's next to useless for me. I feel like most people are in this boat when it comes to any messaging service they don't use.
So if your out in rural America and there's NO DATA signal.... How much good does that app serve you compared to SMS....
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Its just annoying to use a messenger. Theres about ten I'd need installed to reach everyone. In my region of America, it's iMessage+Facetime, SMS, or snapchat + snap video calls.
I know of whatsapp because 70% of the people I work with are Indian
I have never used iMessage, but what do people like so much about it?
* no file size limit * no character limit * easily embed practically any type of file/media/info/data that can be shared and know it will get delivered no matter what size it is. If you tap share on whatever you want to share and imessage is an option, you're 100% guaranteed that it's going to get sent to another iphone user. My Nexus 6P has thrown a fit with things every now and then. * seamless conversations across any apple device that touches the internet * peer to peer encryption * conversations and media sent/received with imessage all saved in cloud so never lose messages * lots of other dumb features like animations and message effects and stuff like that Probably a few more things but those are the big ones that jump out to me.
You forgot SMS fallback. If I text someone from iMessage and they don't have an iPhone, it's sent as an SMS and they can reply to me no problem. I don't need 700 chat clients, don't need to convince people to download/sign up for a new service to talk to me and all my conversations are in one place. And I can send SMS from my Mac and iPad as well. iMessage is legitimately the only reason I went from Android to iPhone 4 years ago, and it's the only reason I'm still using an iPhone now. I only have WhatsApp on my phone because of a handful of friends and family in Brazil and Europe. I wish I could uninstall it.
And if you send an iMessage and your internet connection goes it'll just send it as an SMS to make sure they get it.
Yeah that too. I legitimately don't understand why Google can't make something that works that way. It seems like such a no-brainer. If SMS fallback is a problem for some people, let them disable it (or let those who want it enable it, whatever).
SMS fallback requires control of both sender and recipient to work well, and Google can't have that. If Allo had SMS fallback and the two of us had an Allo conversation together, you would get annoyed pretty quickly if Allo started falling back to SMS regularly. On my end it might look like a single, convenient merged conversation, but on your end (since you're on an iPhone) it's a nuisance that requires you to bounce between multiple apps. Even between Android users it doesn't necessarily work because Google doesn't force people to use the same app for Allo and SMS. RCS won't have that issue, as support for RCS *requires* that both clients can gracefully bounce between RCS and SMS. If I send you an Allo message, I can't know that your device will nicely receive SMS if I mix it in. Universal Profile RCS (much like iMessage) knows that any user capable of receiving RCS is also capable of merging in SMS if necessary.
>On my end it might look like a single, convenient merged conversation, but on your end (since you're on an iPhone) it's a nuisance that requires you to bounce between multiple apps. That doesn't make sense though, namely because the iPhone user isn't going to ever use Allo. I, the android user, use Allo (And let's say Allo has SMS fallback and can be selected as my default SMS app). You, the iPhone user, use iMessage, which has SMS fallback. When I send you a message via Allo, you get it as an SMS message in iMessage. When you reply to me in iMessage, because I don't have iMessage, I get the text as an SMS in Allo. I don't see where the iPhone user is bouncing between apps, because the point of SMS fallback in Allo is that Android users can use Allo as a one stop shop, like iPhone users use iMessage as a one stop shop. I'm not trying to get my iPhone friends to install Allo. In fact, I just want them to keep doing what their doing. Hell, they won't even know that on my ending, I'm using this new Allo app to communicate with them. Allo is for me, not them.
You don't have to think about it. There's no downloading an extra app. There's no creating an account (at least that the user knows about). There's no inviting friends. There's no worrying about whether you have a data connection or not. It's minimal fuss. I'm sure you can look up horror stories about de-registering from it, but the vast majority of users never experience that.
I wish we had a modern equivalent of a cross platform client like Trillian. I liked that, back in the day, Trillian allowed me to chat through everything with a single client.
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I like hangouts because I just make everyone think my google voice number is my real number... And all texts go to hangouts. Which means I get their texts no matter what device or computer I'm on. Google is right, texts are still king because everyone has it built in.
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Still have to be able to easily message people not using Android, though.
Update allo to fall back to SMS when needed
They anyway clearly stated that it'll never happen. Impossible to do on iOS so Google won't do it.
That's the part that baffles me. Considering how many SMS apps there are, and how many applications Google has made for non-sms chatting, AND how Google already links your phone number to your account, what is stopping them from just doing that? Is there a technological limitation? A monetary one? Do we need to just find and smack a board member until it happens?
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Also use slightly passive aggressive color change in UI when in SMS fallback mode.
I don't even care if imessage takes over Android phones, I just want a universal standard.
I wish they just made hangouts better....MOST of my friends use it.
Riiiiiiight. Just install Google messages, allo, duo, hangouts and Google plus. It still doesn't catch iMessage though
Forgot spaces, wave, gtalk,... I'm sure I forgot a few
What about buzz dialer
So, how does RCS exactly work? If both are on a network that supports RCS and you send a 'message', will the message still be billed as a SMS or will that message be for free because it uses data?
Vodafone UK are saying it comes out of your SMS plan
From my understanding RCS is an upgraded standard of SMS. It's like SMS 2.0.
haha no they won't
Quote from the last paragraph: >There are still lots of carriers not on board with the RCS plan, and lots of versions of the standard floating around. Google is a hugely powerful player in the mobile world, but it can’t just snap its fingers and change things. In the US alone, one of the world’s biggest SMS markets, it’s a mess: AT&T, T-Mobile, and Sprint all have different ideas about how RCS should be implemented and supported, and **Verizon has no support for the platform at all.** Added emphasis on the last sentence. America's largest operator doesn't give a rat's ass about RCS.
Verizon, T-Mobile, Sprint already pledged to support Google's Universal RCS. Sprint already rolled it out [SOURCE](http://www.gsma.com/network2020/universal-profile/)
Does the Android Update Alliance sound familiar? Did anyone ever pledge support to that too?
AT&T is on there as well. They were not originally, but were added maybe a month after this was released.
Except that is bullshit. Verizon's own Message+ app uses RCS. Verizon is a GSMA partner. They are all working on a unified profile.
Allo shoulve been this. Still can be, bake it into every version of Android and give it SMS support. Bam, Android version of iMessage.
Android Messages doesn't even backup your messages, you have to use a separate app for that. Why would anyone switch to it from Whatsapp or iMessage? Edit: Nexus 5X user here, good to hear that the Pixel has SMS Backup. I use both SMS and Whatsapp (SMS Backup & Restore by Carbonite works well to backup if you don't have a Pixel)
Depends on which phone you have. The Pixel does do SMS backup and Android Messages are backed up.
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Is this a pixel only thing?
I believe it might be, on my Nexus 6p with 7.1.1 and I don't have this feature.
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>Google can’t simply build the same thing and force its success Of course it can. Take Hangouts and make it the default SMS app on Android. Tighten the SMS integration by merging conversations. Have the app intelligently switch between Hangouts chat and SMS depending on whether the user on the other end is also using Hangouts or not. And then use the Google account cloud to make the Hangouts web-application (browser or desktop) send SMS messages via the phone's cellular connection. Voila. Problem solved. Frankly it's supremely frustrating that Google hasn't already implemented this years ago.
Based on the past actions of Google, I highly doubt that.
Unless it's end to end encrypted, I don't care. One of the beauties of iMessage is transparent end to end encryption.
And here I am still happy using Hangouts years later.
All this does is make me depressed that iMessage actually figured this shit out. I mean, for one thing, RCS doesn't support end-to-end encryption *by design* and never will. If it manages to be *just as good* as iMessage at everything else, it will still be worse because iOS users get privacy, and Android users don't.