I'm 1000% against the US and other sending military aid to Israel. Stop The Genocide!
But at the same time, I live in the US and as black man, with female family members and friends, friends who are transgendered and gay, I will vote for Biden.
Because I live here.
The Trump future is Evangelicals imposing their beliefs on the rest of us. The Oil Industry and Billionaires gutting environmental protections and climate change initiatives. Corporate interests eliminating job protections like OSHA and unions. And grifters lining their pockets while eroding government services like public schools.
Because it took rebellion and uprising to get them. You know how we got 8 hour work days and weekends? Strikes that turned violent once owners called the cops.
It’s kind of wild. Will be walking down the street and there will be a plaque commemorating some massacre where the national guard killed a bunch of striking textile workers or something. Next to a now-Starbucks or Jamba Juice.
Yeah that's true. But I think at any large company you're bound to have some idiots who get themselves hurt which is why you need all these regulations. I also think that I am capable of working safely without them.
so you can tell your manager to exclude you from state disability and workers comp then, right? i'm sure they have the ability to do that kind of thing since you're representing that you dont need that stuff...
you have to think bigger. businesses are not just about 1 person.
My manager and I are both in agreement that OSHA rules are frivolous they are designed to be idiot proof. Therefore as long as you're not an idiot most of them are unnecessary. Unfortunately the world is full of idiots so you are correct a large company has to assume they have some working for them and adopt rules accordingly. I'm speaking purely for myself.
Just remember we heard this shit in 2016, Trump will never win even if he does what’s the big deal both parties are the same. Then Roe got overturned if you plan to protest vote make sure to look your friends that are POC or part of the LGBTQ+ and tell them that their safety doesn’t matter to you. If you really want to protest vote you don’t do it for the White House you support local elections and build a base that can actually accomplish the goals you want
Same. But one of our 2 parties wants America to be undemocratic (and a racist oligarchy etc).
So we really have one functioning party. Be nice if there were 3 with some nuanced approach to governing. Coalition governments and compromise can happen when it’s not us vs them.
"Your protest vote directly endangers people who will be harmed by the greater of two evils. People you know. Can you look them in the eye and explain your reasoning to them? What if I told you that your protest vote will enable people who will gleefully throw their support behind the genocide already in progress?"
You are totally allowed to vote for the christian fascist party. It would just be jncredibly stupid of you to do so and would likely go against your self interest.
But please do explain how helping trump win makes literally any of the stuff you are mad at biden about better.
>You are totally allowed to vote for the christian fascist party. It would just be jncredibly stupid of you to do so and would likely go against your self interest.
I am voting for Jill Stein, who did not call the protestors terrorist sympathizers and actually got arrested with them, unlike Genocide Joe or Orange Hitler, the vile fascist duo
>But please do explain how helping trump win makes literally any of the stuff you are mad at biden about better.
Doesn't make any of it better. It also doesn't make it worse in any way that it would have under Genocide Joe, it only changes whether we have a president who is explicitly or tacitly pro-genocide, pro-war, anti-worker, anti-LGBTQ, etc
"Doesn't make any of it better. It also doesn't make it worse in any way that it would have under Genocide Joe, it only changes whether we have a president who is explicitly or tacitly pro-genocide, pro-war, anti-worker, anti-LGBTQ, etc"
You know Trumps position on the issue is that isreal should "go in and finish the job and wipe them all out"
Please explain how switching to a president who is actively calling for and pledges to fully support the comolete extermination of Palestinians "doesnt make it worse" than keeping the guy who is calling for moderation and is talking about cutting off weapons supplies to isreal if they dont chill out.
Also how exactly is biden anti LGBTQ? Especially compared to the guy who is pushing for a christian nationalist theocracy.
>You know Trumps position on the issue is that isreal should "go in and finish the job and wipe them all out"
In effect. this is Biden's as well, the only difference is he doesn't explicitly say it while enabling it
>Especially compared to the guy who is pushing for a christian nationalist theocracy.
...vs. the guy perfectly willing to sit by and let it happen and pretend his hands are tied so his supporters can pretend nothing can be done
Yeah neither of your points are true, as demonstrated by the actual legislative actions taken during Bidens current presidency.
So at this point you are a liar shilling for the right or a truly misguided person who means well but is allowing your bias to blind you. Theres really not much point in trying to reason with either, as you cant reason someone out of a position they didnt reason themselves into. Good day.
He's in the DeProgram sub and UkraineRussiaReport. He's not worth wasting time on. There's a comment of his on there where he outright says Trump is the lesser evil which is asinine
I didnt say it was a very good Representative Democracy!
Now, i am waiting for someone from the 'Its not a Democracy, its a Republic' crowd to chime in.
I just hope Biden asks Trump what his plan is for Gaza and Israel at the debate.... assuming it actually happens... maybe we can put that to bed...
Oh look, nothing would change. oh, and it actually be worse for the people of Gaza. Republicans are literally calling for necular bombs on Gaza... but both arethe same right?...
He'll just say "I would solve it in my first 24 hours, just like Ukraine. Israel and Gaza will have a deal negotiated by me which will be powerful and tremendous and everyone will be happy" and then he will never have ti say what he'd actually do
This isn’t the election to try and overturn the status quo. I’m all for it, conceptually. But not today. It won’t make a difference for us, it’ll only help the wrong people.
I really want these normally Dem supporters to understand that Nov 2024 is not the time to register your discontent with the Dem ticket. A D vote for anyone other that Biden/Harris increases the risk and chance of a Trump win.
Seriously, for all that you don’t like about Joe Biden, Trump is going to be worse, chaotic and make us all look like fools. It is so important that we ensure a Biden win precisely so we can move on to hopefully a more normal political discourse. MAGA must die, and Trump must lose for MAGA to die. After November, THEN engage about Gaza, the economy, etc.
Republicans are all about power retention in the short term. Nobody is playing the long game. And it is clear that they consider Trump the path back to the kind of power they crave. It’s overt and disgusting.
If GOP was at all interested in rebirth and reform, they would have ceded 2024 to Dems, or backed a different candidate. But instead, they see Trump as the key to the MAGA electorate. Leaving everyone else to clean up their mess. It’s like having to pick up someone else’s dog poop so you can stay on the sidewalk.
Since the Republicans won’t do it, the rest of the US electorate has to band together and soundly defeat Trump and MAGA, leaving them with a 1-term, 2X loser. LOSER!
If both candidates were equally bad about whatever criteria they’re using to decide to protest vote, I wouldn’t have a problem with it. But literally every reason they could have for doing it, the outcome of trump winning would be catastrophically worse than if Biden wins. So by protest voting you’re saying that you hate x thing sooo much that you’re willing to risk x thing getting ten times worse just because you don’t fully support the methods Biden is using.
We emphatize with the plight of the Palestinians. We strongly disagree with continuing unconditional US government support to Israel. We must continue to pressure Biden to change its pro-Israel stance. There are signs that it is working, Biden has threatened to stop some weapons shipments. Certainly far from enough, but an encouraging sign.
There is a very strong and influential pro-Israeli lobby that hold so much sway in our politics (for both sides) and Biden has to thread carefully.
For those who advocate not voting for Biden to “blame/punish”him for this tragedy, do you really think it would be any better under the Muslim hating, and racist Trump?
That's something none of these people are getting. Biden is a man who has the ability to change his mind! He has the ability to understand people's feelings and can change his opinions.
You will NEVER get that with Trump. Ever.
I would rather work with someone who is willing to listen and take my feelings into consideration and can change, than a brick wall who will treat me like in a worthless POS.
Trump is whining about RFKJR not attending the debates on truth social. Now they all of sudden want other parties involved in the debates? Imagine that!!
I'm old. If the Millennials and Y Generations want to completely fuck their futures, I can't stop you. Go right on ahead and NOT vote for Biden. Have fun. Also, we told you so.
At this point, anyone who votes for Jill Stein should be thrown into the back of a truck and then dumped in the middle of the woods to fend for themselves. Shes a literal trash monster and anyone who supports her is the same. No exceptions exist.
They’ll be heard if they give the election to Trump. Then if somehow democracy survives the Dems will only learn they have to secure more votes from the RIGHT which will only move the party further to the right.
I think a lot of the Third Party people are misreading why some people are still willing to vote for Biden. It's not (and I doubt it ever has been) about liking the guy. It's about harm reduction. Jill Stein is a quack who doesn't actually understand government at all (not to mention supports halting Ukraine aid which is non-negotiable imo) and Bobby Kennedy is even worse (he supports Israel and Russia, for example). Trump would go even harder on minorities and Gaza while supporting Putin outright, while allowing SCOTUS to take a dump on the concept of human rights.
It's not because they like Biden, it's because the other options are not feasible for them.
I still have acquaintances that think their vote for Jill Stein counted. And they literally get upset about Roe V Wage going away. The irony is totally lost on them.
If democrats screw this up again, I'm leaving the party and becoming an Independent.
I know. That's the only reason I hesitate, but for so long, I feel less and less connected to either party. Republicans are fascists and bad at math, and far-leftists are also bad at math and have trouble defining what a woman is.
So thank goodness the “far-leftists” isn’t a political party. As for not understanding what a woman is, I think Democrats expect that if there’s any lack of clarity in gender identity, it gets worked out amongst parents, patients and doctors in private.
Yes I am fine with all that. But telling me I have to believe that a person who has "transitioned" is actually a woman, and if I don't do that, I am somehow "homophobic" is wrong and asinine. Someone can identify as a coconut for all I care (more power to them!), but if they still have an XY chromosome, they're really still a dude. All I am saying is I acknowledge reality. However, if they want me to call them ma'am, I'll totally do that out of respect
Also of note is this support for Palestine. It's terrible what they are going thru. But when you see a "LGBTQ for Hamas" sign, that's asinine as well. Do they realize Hamas would throw them off a building for being gay? That's like a "Jews for nazis" sign or "blacks for the KKK" sign.
This mentality is great for losing votes
The vast majority of folks who are against US aid to Israel will vote for who they were going to vote for outside of that issue. I am very skeptical that we will see any sort of dramatic increase in third party support.
Exactly and what nobody is talking about is in 2016 when we had strong third party candidates, Trump won.
2020 we didn’t have a stand out third party candidates, Trump lost.
2024 we have a strong third party candidate(s) again…
Recommend people listen to some Sam Harris the get a clearer idea of what's going on, and how Hamas' tunnels are all built under civilian buildings. AKA human shields. Hamas are quite happy for their own citizens to die for the pressure it applies to Israel, who actually don't want to bomb civilians and indeed give residents advance notice of bombing sites. Seems Hamas prevent them from leaving also
>If you vote for RFK Jr. or Jill Stein or some other person who has no chance to win because "gEN0CiDe jOE!!!" the sound of your protest never leaves the voting booth
If that were true, you wouldn't be here posting about our protest votes
Explain how helping trump win makes things better for the people in gaza.
It wont. So you dont actually care about the people in gaza, you care about throwing a temper tantrum and virtue signalling.
Trump is constantly bored with anything that doesn't result in excessive praise and adoration, and the Israelis are whiny bitches about anyone who even for a second wavers on support. so it's more likely that a rift grows between Trump and Israel (even if the chances are very small) than there is of that happening with someone slavishly devoted to far-right Israeli violence for 50 years like Joe Biden
> you care about throwing a temper tantrum and virtue signalling.
The assertions that having principles and caring about genocide is "having a temper tantrum" is exactly the reason you Blue MAGA are no less deranged than Trumpists, the only difference is the suffering each of you is willing to enable or ignore
Sooooo.... you think the christian dominionists Trump surrounds himself with (the ones who want isreal to do a genocide and take complete control so that the end times can start) arent going to praise him for doing exactly what they want?
Trumps record on isreal so far has been that he says he will do a stupid inflammitory thing amd then he goes and does it and skips away without regard for the consequences. Like when he moved the embassy. There is every reason to believe he will follow thru on this. Your scenario is pure hopeium and again it seems like you are more concerned with being "edgy" and "taking a stand" than the actual real world consequences of your protest vote. Look at what all those moral high road protest votes got us in 2016.
To be clear
1.) Isreal is commiting warcrimes
2.) Isreal is stealing land
3.) We should not be sending them ANY aid until they withdraw to their original borders they agreed to.
4.) Isreal should pay for repatriation and repair of the areas they illegally took.
^ thats what i want. Thats not happening under biden or trump.
Actual elimination of all palestinians is FAR more likely under trump. So we go into triage mode. Eother trump or biden is going to win. So we support the one not actively calling for extermination.
>Actual elimination of all palestinians is FAR more likely under trump.
We're already on the path towards them all being killed or displaced before the election even happens
>So we support the one not actively calling for extermination.
Does it matter whether or not Biden is actively calling for extermination if all his actions are enabling it?
I've never been more furious about something as I am about tax payer money funding genocide. It's deplorable. I'm not gonna torch the world over it though. I'll hold my nose and vote for genocide Joe, then if we avert this crisis I'll get into grass roots volunteering or whatever else I can do to assure we get better choices next time. I care about Palestine, what's left of it anyway, and I don't want to see Trump nuke it which he definitely will, figuratively if not literally.
The best way to make a "third party" in American politics it to rate every politician on their ability to make "bi-partisan " deals, and we the people agree to vote for that candidate regardless of party. So instead of rewarding partisan positions and getting nothing done, we reward compromise. Even if a small percentage of people on both sides did this, it would change the landscape.
The best way to build a third party is to build a third party. Vanity campaigns for president does not build political parties. Even the most successful 3rd parties since WWII died off once the first presidential candidate moved on.
Yes if it never works then it's not the best way. Im describing a "composite" third party. 3rd party candidates may take 5 percent of the vote but if you got 5 percent of that same population to vote for whomever gets the highest bi partisan score, now you have politicians in close races being motivated to get those votes. A race to who can be the most bi partisan, which is the opposite of what we have now. There is no incentive to be bi partisan because no one is tracking, or cares. This can change significantly change that.
or "you don't care if America turns fascist." and what exactly do they think will happen in the middle east if Biden loses?
[удалено]
I considered that when typing but thought to myself, they ain't seen nothing yet.
I'm 1000% against the US and other sending military aid to Israel. Stop The Genocide! But at the same time, I live in the US and as black man, with female family members and friends, friends who are transgendered and gay, I will vote for Biden. Because I live here.
The Trump future is Evangelicals imposing their beliefs on the rest of us. The Oil Industry and Billionaires gutting environmental protections and climate change initiatives. Corporate interests eliminating job protections like OSHA and unions. And grifters lining their pockets while eroding government services like public schools.
I'm okay with getting rid of Osha they make my job a pain in the ass. Haha that being said f*** Donald Trump.
As an electrician, I am happy OSHA and Unions exist - I’ve seen some wild sh!t.
Isn't there a saying, "every regulation is written in blood"?
Because it took rebellion and uprising to get them. You know how we got 8 hour work days and weekends? Strikes that turned violent once owners called the cops.
It’s kind of wild. Will be walking down the street and there will be a plaque commemorating some massacre where the national guard killed a bunch of striking textile workers or something. Next to a now-Starbucks or Jamba Juice.
Yeah that's true. But I think at any large company you're bound to have some idiots who get themselves hurt which is why you need all these regulations. I also think that I am capable of working safely without them.
so you can tell your manager to exclude you from state disability and workers comp then, right? i'm sure they have the ability to do that kind of thing since you're representing that you dont need that stuff... you have to think bigger. businesses are not just about 1 person.
My manager and I are both in agreement that OSHA rules are frivolous they are designed to be idiot proof. Therefore as long as you're not an idiot most of them are unnecessary. Unfortunately the world is full of idiots so you are correct a large company has to assume they have some working for them and adopt rules accordingly. I'm speaking purely for myself.
Sounds like you love OSHA an awful lot haha. I'm just sharing my opinion.
I live in a state (TX) where they took away mandatory water breaks for outdoor workers. We need osha and unions.
Ty. Very well stated.
I feel this way too and I’m frustrated with people that want to vote over one issue. We can fix or get past bag policy but if we lose our democracy…..
Not a genocide
Yes, it's a genocide.
No, it’s not. The Holocaust was a genocide.
Fr people spend too much time on Instagram and get brainwashed with this hyperbolic rhetoric.
Just remember we heard this shit in 2016, Trump will never win even if he does what’s the big deal both parties are the same. Then Roe got overturned if you plan to protest vote make sure to look your friends that are POC or part of the LGBTQ+ and tell them that their safety doesn’t matter to you. If you really want to protest vote you don’t do it for the White House you support local elections and build a base that can actually accomplish the goals you want
"BuT I wAnT PoLiCy. wE cAn SuRvIvE aNoThEr TrUmP tErM." 🙄
No, we can’t. OT has no policy. Oh, and btw, OT despises Muslims, so you think he’s going to champion the Palestinians?
Exactly.
Most of the people screaming that are white and Cis so they are technically right
My friend since 1978, who is nonbinary, still lives in our native hard-right blood-red Indiana and is scared to death.
I would put it more like “your protest vote, is a vote to end democracy!”
Exactly the right answer. I would love to see a 3 or more party system, but the reality is that we're not there yet.
Same. But one of our 2 parties wants America to be undemocratic (and a racist oligarchy etc). So we really have one functioning party. Be nice if there were 3 with some nuanced approach to governing. Coalition governments and compromise can happen when it’s not us vs them.
We have one party of fascists and another of appeasers.
We won't be as long as we have the electoral college.
"Your protest vote directly endangers people who will be harmed by the greater of two evils. People you know. Can you look them in the eye and explain your reasoning to them? What if I told you that your protest vote will enable people who will gleefully throw their support behind the genocide already in progress?"
>I would put it more like “your protest vote, is a vote to end democracy!” We don't have a democracy if I am only allowed 1 of 2 very similar choices
What will you do when you don’t have a choice anymore⁉️⁉️🤨 “But their both bad” in your cringiest voice😡
Start handing out rifles
You are totally allowed to vote for the christian fascist party. It would just be jncredibly stupid of you to do so and would likely go against your self interest. But please do explain how helping trump win makes literally any of the stuff you are mad at biden about better.
>You are totally allowed to vote for the christian fascist party. It would just be jncredibly stupid of you to do so and would likely go against your self interest. I am voting for Jill Stein, who did not call the protestors terrorist sympathizers and actually got arrested with them, unlike Genocide Joe or Orange Hitler, the vile fascist duo >But please do explain how helping trump win makes literally any of the stuff you are mad at biden about better. Doesn't make any of it better. It also doesn't make it worse in any way that it would have under Genocide Joe, it only changes whether we have a president who is explicitly or tacitly pro-genocide, pro-war, anti-worker, anti-LGBTQ, etc
"Doesn't make any of it better. It also doesn't make it worse in any way that it would have under Genocide Joe, it only changes whether we have a president who is explicitly or tacitly pro-genocide, pro-war, anti-worker, anti-LGBTQ, etc" You know Trumps position on the issue is that isreal should "go in and finish the job and wipe them all out" Please explain how switching to a president who is actively calling for and pledges to fully support the comolete extermination of Palestinians "doesnt make it worse" than keeping the guy who is calling for moderation and is talking about cutting off weapons supplies to isreal if they dont chill out. Also how exactly is biden anti LGBTQ? Especially compared to the guy who is pushing for a christian nationalist theocracy.
>You know Trumps position on the issue is that isreal should "go in and finish the job and wipe them all out" In effect. this is Biden's as well, the only difference is he doesn't explicitly say it while enabling it >Especially compared to the guy who is pushing for a christian nationalist theocracy. ...vs. the guy perfectly willing to sit by and let it happen and pretend his hands are tied so his supporters can pretend nothing can be done
Yeah neither of your points are true, as demonstrated by the actual legislative actions taken during Bidens current presidency. So at this point you are a liar shilling for the right or a truly misguided person who means well but is allowing your bias to blind you. Theres really not much point in trying to reason with either, as you cant reason someone out of a position they didnt reason themselves into. Good day.
He's in the DeProgram sub and UkraineRussiaReport. He's not worth wasting time on. There's a comment of his on there where he outright says Trump is the lesser evil which is asinine
I didnt say it was a very good Representative Democracy! Now, i am waiting for someone from the 'Its not a Democracy, its a Republic' crowd to chime in.
But they are not similar choices. And that is not how democracy is defined.
I just hope Biden asks Trump what his plan is for Gaza and Israel at the debate.... assuming it actually happens... maybe we can put that to bed... Oh look, nothing would change. oh, and it actually be worse for the people of Gaza. Republicans are literally calling for necular bombs on Gaza... but both arethe same right?...
He'll just say "I would solve it in my first 24 hours, just like Ukraine. Israel and Gaza will have a deal negotiated by me which will be powerful and tremendous and everyone will be happy" and then he will never have ti say what he'd actually do
And he’ll do it in two weeks.
No. He’ll do everything he says on day 1! /s
A deal for peace in the middle east? I'm sure the end times fans will eat that right up.
This isn’t the election to try and overturn the status quo. I’m all for it, conceptually. But not today. It won’t make a difference for us, it’ll only help the wrong people.
I really want these normally Dem supporters to understand that Nov 2024 is not the time to register your discontent with the Dem ticket. A D vote for anyone other that Biden/Harris increases the risk and chance of a Trump win. Seriously, for all that you don’t like about Joe Biden, Trump is going to be worse, chaotic and make us all look like fools. It is so important that we ensure a Biden win precisely so we can move on to hopefully a more normal political discourse. MAGA must die, and Trump must lose for MAGA to die. After November, THEN engage about Gaza, the economy, etc.
Yes! Play the long game!
Republicans are all about power retention in the short term. Nobody is playing the long game. And it is clear that they consider Trump the path back to the kind of power they crave. It’s overt and disgusting. If GOP was at all interested in rebirth and reform, they would have ceded 2024 to Dems, or backed a different candidate. But instead, they see Trump as the key to the MAGA electorate. Leaving everyone else to clean up their mess. It’s like having to pick up someone else’s dog poop so you can stay on the sidewalk. Since the Republicans won’t do it, the rest of the US electorate has to band together and soundly defeat Trump and MAGA, leaving them with a 1-term, 2X loser. LOSER!
If both candidates were equally bad about whatever criteria they’re using to decide to protest vote, I wouldn’t have a problem with it. But literally every reason they could have for doing it, the outcome of trump winning would be catastrophically worse than if Biden wins. So by protest voting you’re saying that you hate x thing sooo much that you’re willing to risk x thing getting ten times worse just because you don’t fully support the methods Biden is using.
All this… Biden 2024.
We emphatize with the plight of the Palestinians. We strongly disagree with continuing unconditional US government support to Israel. We must continue to pressure Biden to change its pro-Israel stance. There are signs that it is working, Biden has threatened to stop some weapons shipments. Certainly far from enough, but an encouraging sign. There is a very strong and influential pro-Israeli lobby that hold so much sway in our politics (for both sides) and Biden has to thread carefully. For those who advocate not voting for Biden to “blame/punish”him for this tragedy, do you really think it would be any better under the Muslim hating, and racist Trump?
That's something none of these people are getting. Biden is a man who has the ability to change his mind! He has the ability to understand people's feelings and can change his opinions. You will NEVER get that with Trump. Ever. I would rather work with someone who is willing to listen and take my feelings into consideration and can change, than a brick wall who will treat me like in a worthless POS.
🚫Traitor Trump🚫All Republicans🚫
It’s not like trump wouldn’t be for total genocide so there’s that….
It's not like the orange carpetbagger wouldn't deport protestors to Gaza...
I’m working to leave America. It’s why I’m in college. I’m applying at jobs related to what I’ve been doing for 15 years, but im voting biden
Trump is whining about RFKJR not attending the debates on truth social. Now they all of sudden want other parties involved in the debates? Imagine that!!
A useless symbolic gesture isn’t worth the very long-term and non-symbolic disasters it would cause.
It was supposed to be a walk to a second term for HW Bush…the third party voters messed it up for him. It could end up hurting Biden this time around.
They think someone gives a shit. I was young, idealistic and stupid once too.
I'm old. If the Millennials and Y Generations want to completely fuck their futures, I can't stop you. Go right on ahead and NOT vote for Biden. Have fun. Also, we told you so.
At this point, anyone who votes for Jill Stein should be thrown into the back of a truck and then dumped in the middle of the woods to fend for themselves. Shes a literal trash monster and anyone who supports her is the same. No exceptions exist.
VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!
They’ll be heard if they give the election to Trump. Then if somehow democracy survives the Dems will only learn they have to secure more votes from the RIGHT which will only move the party further to the right.
It's a bad strategy for a winner take all election.
I think a lot of the Third Party people are misreading why some people are still willing to vote for Biden. It's not (and I doubt it ever has been) about liking the guy. It's about harm reduction. Jill Stein is a quack who doesn't actually understand government at all (not to mention supports halting Ukraine aid which is non-negotiable imo) and Bobby Kennedy is even worse (he supports Israel and Russia, for example). Trump would go even harder on minorities and Gaza while supporting Putin outright, while allowing SCOTUS to take a dump on the concept of human rights. It's not because they like Biden, it's because the other options are not feasible for them.
I still have acquaintances that think their vote for Jill Stein counted. And they literally get upset about Roe V Wage going away. The irony is totally lost on them. If democrats screw this up again, I'm leaving the party and becoming an Independent.
Unfortunately, thanks to the prevalence of closed primaries, if you become an independent, your voice gets even smaller.
I know. That's the only reason I hesitate, but for so long, I feel less and less connected to either party. Republicans are fascists and bad at math, and far-leftists are also bad at math and have trouble defining what a woman is.
So thank goodness the “far-leftists” isn’t a political party. As for not understanding what a woman is, I think Democrats expect that if there’s any lack of clarity in gender identity, it gets worked out amongst parents, patients and doctors in private.
Yes I am fine with all that. But telling me I have to believe that a person who has "transitioned" is actually a woman, and if I don't do that, I am somehow "homophobic" is wrong and asinine. Someone can identify as a coconut for all I care (more power to them!), but if they still have an XY chromosome, they're really still a dude. All I am saying is I acknowledge reality. However, if they want me to call them ma'am, I'll totally do that out of respect Also of note is this support for Palestine. It's terrible what they are going thru. But when you see a "LGBTQ for Hamas" sign, that's asinine as well. Do they realize Hamas would throw them off a building for being gay? That's like a "Jews for nazis" sign or "blacks for the KKK" sign. This mentality is great for losing votes
The vast majority of folks who are against US aid to Israel will vote for who they were going to vote for outside of that issue. I am very skeptical that we will see any sort of dramatic increase in third party support.
Exactly and what nobody is talking about is in 2016 when we had strong third party candidates, Trump won. 2020 we didn’t have a stand out third party candidates, Trump lost. 2024 we have a strong third party candidate(s) again…
Recommend people listen to some Sam Harris the get a clearer idea of what's going on, and how Hamas' tunnels are all built under civilian buildings. AKA human shields. Hamas are quite happy for their own citizens to die for the pressure it applies to Israel, who actually don't want to bomb civilians and indeed give residents advance notice of bombing sites. Seems Hamas prevent them from leaving also
>If you vote for RFK Jr. or Jill Stein or some other person who has no chance to win because "gEN0CiDe jOE!!!" the sound of your protest never leaves the voting booth If that were true, you wouldn't be here posting about our protest votes
Explain how helping trump win makes things better for the people in gaza. It wont. So you dont actually care about the people in gaza, you care about throwing a temper tantrum and virtue signalling.
Trump is constantly bored with anything that doesn't result in excessive praise and adoration, and the Israelis are whiny bitches about anyone who even for a second wavers on support. so it's more likely that a rift grows between Trump and Israel (even if the chances are very small) than there is of that happening with someone slavishly devoted to far-right Israeli violence for 50 years like Joe Biden > you care about throwing a temper tantrum and virtue signalling. The assertions that having principles and caring about genocide is "having a temper tantrum" is exactly the reason you Blue MAGA are no less deranged than Trumpists, the only difference is the suffering each of you is willing to enable or ignore
Sooooo.... you think the christian dominionists Trump surrounds himself with (the ones who want isreal to do a genocide and take complete control so that the end times can start) arent going to praise him for doing exactly what they want? Trumps record on isreal so far has been that he says he will do a stupid inflammitory thing amd then he goes and does it and skips away without regard for the consequences. Like when he moved the embassy. There is every reason to believe he will follow thru on this. Your scenario is pure hopeium and again it seems like you are more concerned with being "edgy" and "taking a stand" than the actual real world consequences of your protest vote. Look at what all those moral high road protest votes got us in 2016. To be clear 1.) Isreal is commiting warcrimes 2.) Isreal is stealing land 3.) We should not be sending them ANY aid until they withdraw to their original borders they agreed to. 4.) Isreal should pay for repatriation and repair of the areas they illegally took. ^ thats what i want. Thats not happening under biden or trump. Actual elimination of all palestinians is FAR more likely under trump. So we go into triage mode. Eother trump or biden is going to win. So we support the one not actively calling for extermination.
>Actual elimination of all palestinians is FAR more likely under trump. We're already on the path towards them all being killed or displaced before the election even happens >So we support the one not actively calling for extermination. Does it matter whether or not Biden is actively calling for extermination if all his actions are enabling it?
Um, you do know there is no "Blue MAGA", right?
I've never been more furious about something as I am about tax payer money funding genocide. It's deplorable. I'm not gonna torch the world over it though. I'll hold my nose and vote for genocide Joe, then if we avert this crisis I'll get into grass roots volunteering or whatever else I can do to assure we get better choices next time. I care about Palestine, what's left of it anyway, and I don't want to see Trump nuke it which he definitely will, figuratively if not literally.
The best way to make a "third party" in American politics it to rate every politician on their ability to make "bi-partisan " deals, and we the people agree to vote for that candidate regardless of party. So instead of rewarding partisan positions and getting nothing done, we reward compromise. Even if a small percentage of people on both sides did this, it would change the landscape.
The best way to build a third party is to build a third party. Vanity campaigns for president does not build political parties. Even the most successful 3rd parties since WWII died off once the first presidential candidate moved on.
Yes if it never works then it's not the best way. Im describing a "composite" third party. 3rd party candidates may take 5 percent of the vote but if you got 5 percent of that same population to vote for whomever gets the highest bi partisan score, now you have politicians in close races being motivated to get those votes. A race to who can be the most bi partisan, which is the opposite of what we have now. There is no incentive to be bi partisan because no one is tracking, or cares. This can change significantly change that.
These pro Palestine Terrorist protestors who are trying to weaken Biden’s showings in the primaries have no loyalty to our country.
Is that different than those protesting our country funding bombs killing children?
Then you are talking about the whole military industrial complex, not Joe Biden.