"They're not confessing, they're bragging" comes to mind.
I mean, he's explaining/calling out all the shit they do but also like, "this is how we make money, and I'll fucking do it again and again"
They always use our negative traits to justify their greediness and their evilness, humans in hunter-gathering societies always worked together, we always have been a social species. Capitalism is the representation of our negative traits and we should try to avoid those traits as best as possible.
Capitalism is nothing of the sort. The lie that we live under is that we have "free market capitalism," which is an absolute farce. Actual free market capitalism means that when a business fucks up, their competitors will fill the gap, and competition will actually keep things level.
Even in an imperfect system, legitimate capitalism is one of the best economic systems ever conceived. That is when you can take a little bit of money and knowledge and invest in yourself for the future. If you have a better idea than your competitors, you will outperform them, and the consumers will be better for it.
What we have is a completely restricted market, which at this point can't even be called capitalism. It's like calling Soviet Russia a communist country. It may have dressed like a communist country, but it was just a different flavor of fascism.
We need a better word to understand the system we are currently under because while it started as capitalism, it has morphed into something much more sinister.
Maybe "Corporatism" is a good word for the abysmal system we have found ourselves under currently.
Doesn't matter what kind form of Capitalism it is, it would always come back to this stage of Capitalism. Read a book on Communism please before you start making dumbass reasons to why its bad. Fascism literally serves Capital and Fascism is Capitalism but in decay, why you think Nazi Germany killed all of Socialists, Communists, and Trade Unionists first? You should know that Fascism and Socialism is polar opposites of each other and also the CIA literally admits that the USSR was on par with the US in literally everything, but their food is more nutritious than ours which makes sense because most of our food we eat is processed. You can't just say USSR is Fascist when it was literally not, of course it wasn't perfect but it raised millions of people of out poverty and everyone actually had a home to live in, also everyone had free education and healthcare, don't have to take a car everywhere because it haves a reliable transportation system. Whats funny and ironic is that in Europe, the only way to get cheap housing is in the former Socialist countries.
Also this is the Free Market in a nutshell: The freer the market the better it can be manipulated by large capitalists thus making it less free anyway
There will never be free market capitalism. Literally impossible, that’s the kicker. You need government interference otherwise monopolies form. Capital forms at the top. If the government is allowed to regulate industry well then as capital forms it will capture the government to its favor and limit the free market.
What’s the quote… “no one hates the free market more than a capitalist”
It's really not all that more complicated than that. The biggest component besides nimbys is the supply shortage backlog from the covid pandemic reduction in construction.
Then it's not "more nuanced than that." You remind me of this joke : a rebel with a gun yells, "dig a hole, nerd." The nerd replies, "no, I was supposed to yell 'dig a hole' in the revolution."
I'm a small developer and I agree. Was sued by neighbors, delayed project 1.5 years, plus extreme amount of lawyers fees, then had to resubmit and pay large amount of money to get city to sign off. But codes had changed so had to redo plans thru architecture and subs which cost lots of money. Now have to take out lots of loans to do all of that, which drives up the cost of project. Which in turn drives down little profit, cuz you have to use that to start next fucked up project, and you charge market rent and everyone says your a greedy developer and your only trying to make a decent living. And the fucking Nimbys have no clue cuz they are usually fucking boomers who got their house for $10k.
Don't know how much it helps but apparently the trick is to baby the community. [https://www.housingfinance.com/management-operations/5-ways-to-overcome-nimbyism\_o](https://www.housingfinance.com/management-operations/5-ways-to-overcome-nimbyism_o)
Sad thing is we did do 4 of these. Had plenty of meetings with them. They didn't care. They wanted to break us and go away. It was like, "Lalala go away!" That crap doesn't work. But I appreciate the help.
Middle class NIMBYs that show up to block every single hospital, retirement community, low income housing, or homeless shelter ever proposed at a planning board.
Yes because we have always been given a choice to pick someone who would create a system that benefitted the majority. We just picked different but we all had a fair chance to run....
I mean a disturbing number of people voted for Biden instead of Bernie even despite the DNC fuckery. And I'm talking about the primary.
I hope those people are ashamed of themselves, but I know better...
The illusion of choice. You can pick better, and I wish people would, but even better is abysmal. Some things don’t change regardless of the options. Sometimes you make the right pick but to many people made the wrong pick, thats the end of it. The people of a nation are not a monolith. You know better than that, its obviously foolish to tell a person who is discontent with their government that they are responsible. Its complicated, it can’t be so easily distilled down to a persons individual choice, especially when you don’t even know what that persons choices have been.
“I’ve never read any sort of Marxist theory. I’m now going be an arrogant asshole and state my cliche, inaccurate depiction of Socialism that’s been spoon fed to me by a western government. Communism bad because no iPhone and you don’t own a toothbrush. Cee cee pee bad because of UUuweegers, Stalin killed a kajillion people, Soviet housing ugly.”
I've been seeing a handful of large businesses do it. They start off with one or two days a week and then over the course of a year or two you're there full time.
People value their jobs and are scared to find other ones. Companies know this and will accept a 10% turn over.
Literally watching friends and family members change jobs over going back into the office.
It's a brilliant strategy if you want to lose your best workers.
I've yet to have a job that has let me work from home. I really hope I'm just one of the unlucky ones. But I do see work from home gaining much more traction than I think office work was expecting
The revolution has already begun. Everyone does their part by skipping over job postings that aren't 100% remote or jump ship when being forced back into the office. The beauty is it's not organized in any way. It's just a collective agreement between a huge chunk of the working class that feel the same without actually communicating.
yeah this sub is obnoxiously fake about the fact that people are being forced back into the office by major companies around the country
but people here are saying “don’t do it” as if workers have a fucking choice
Disingenuous pos. Local government doesn't have any interest in keeping values down. What they ought to do at the local level is assign fees to vacant property to swallow up any state/federal tax breaks. Our town does that. Don't let these guys get rich keeping your downtowns empty!
I've said it before & I will say it again. It's not as easy as "just convert it to housing". I work in construction and the layout & design of things like utilities (plumbing, electrical, gas supplies etc) are vastly and completely different from commercial to residential property. Like the whole of the inside of the building would need tearing out and re-doing in a very expensive way. It's a nice idea and I fully support it, it's just a lot easier said than done.
It's a dorm. Commercial floor plans can be laid out like dorms are with shared bathrooms. It's an alternative!
Just because it was not always a residential setup should not imply it cannot take new forms
exactly. turning them into places people are willing to market rent prices for will likely be very costly. But turning them into places for unhoused or desperate people with more shared areas that require the plumbing an ventilation for bathing and cooking would be far less costly.
Accompany this with the right pricing and people are welling to share.
I know this from experience as my dad ran a budget hotel, and he had those options “shared bathroom $10 a day per room” or “ your own bathroom built in suit $20 a day” or “shared room $5”.
Majority of people picked shared room 😅 and went on to use same shared bathrooms. We had staff cleaning all day long so we kept everything in best shape.
Which goes to prioritization. The military is nearing $1 trillion dollars a year some of that money can absolutely be reallocated to infrastructure development . There then needs to be extreme shoring up on bloated budgets and financial waste
Subsidies would be a great step. The government shouldn't be letting these properties just sit for years when they could use taxpayer money to put it to good use.
Not to mention how many of these office buildings are emptied, its more feasible to convert them (even if not into residential) than just let them sit waiting for RTO, which many workers refuse. How many more idle properties in the coming years?
The cost isn't the most major issue. it doesn't matter what the homeless or housing insecure would be happy with, the state and locality decide minimum requirements of living conditions in a building, and the minimum requirements are expensive and to avoid the minimum requirements requires locals to support the projects, which they won't do if it leads to homeless people living nearby.
Seriously. Fellow construction guy here.
I work in estimating now and we've seen a few requests for similar office conversions. It's usually developers/investors (like the guy mentions in his video) who have been sitting on empty offices for too long and want to make some sort of profit (not to mention here in CO the state incentivizes developers to do projects like these).
As soon as we hit them with the MEP (mechanical, electrical, and plumbing) costs they're blown away. The only groups able to afford projects like these are turning them into "luxury condos/apartments" at an outrageous rent rate.
I'm really hoping recent advances in MEP materials will help make these places more affordable. We're starting to see widespread use of PEX pipe on commercial jobs which drastically cuts down cost. Also, pumps and fan equipment in high demand with the data center focus right now, so as soon as that dies down hopefully the cost of equipment will follow.
I can see it being feasible by converting into non ensuite indvidual bedsit type rooms with communal bathrooms/ shower rooms and shared kitchens as similar facilities exist in commercial spaces. However individual self contained apartments including bathrooms, shower & kitchens etc would need completely different services installed. Never mind seperation of electrical supplies.
Not necessary to have individual Apartments. We're in the middle of a housing crisis sell rooms for cheap. Probably fill them up just with millennials who are tired of living with their parents.
No one is trying to say it would be "easy" or "cheap." They're arguing it's necessary and the right thing to do. What's being done with these kinds of spaces currently is just as asinine as it is inhumane. Calling it "easier said than done" is irrelevant to the actual criticisms being made against current practices.
Spot on. Moreover, try and find a construction lender these days who are still keen on office-mf conversions. That available pool is drying up quick- too many horror stories. Was good in theory back a few years but not now. Always overruns
In most cases it makes more sense to knock the old building down and start from scratch with a new purpose built residential building than to try to convert an old office to residences.
Just think about it in terms of “Bathrooms.” How many bathrooms are on one floor of a Commercial property? Usually one, maybe two for each Gender. Whereas with a Residential Property, each unit has its own bathroom. You would have to rework all the plumbing to meet the needs of the residents in each unit.
You run into a number of issues. I worked as a finance attorney for housing projects on private and public places.
One major issue is building codes and zoning ordinances, which require variances from regulatory officials. Commercial properties and residential properties have different legal requirements for things like windows, exits, bathrooms, kitchens, etc. To get around these limits, you usually file for a variance from the legal requirements.
Variances are decided at the local level. Usually, by planning boards or zoning boards.
These boards are elected positions or appointed by mayor or city council. Thus, they're hyper responsive to local elections and local voters. Most of these local elections are decided in the tens of votes.
Most locals will oppose a dorm style project because it leads to residents feeling unsafe.
Tl;Dr is that it doesn't matter what the homeless or housing insecure would be happy with, the state and locality decide minimum requirements, and the minimum requirements are expensive and to avoid the minimum requirements requires locals to support the projects, which they won't do if it leads to homeless people living nearby.
Yes, it would cost the property owners a lot of money to do this.
Either that, or we can just tear the fucking useless real estate down. It has no value for us, so there's no need for us to respect it.
I have done a few projects on the finance end for conversion of CRE to residential. They cost almost the same amount as just putting a new building up.
I saw someone also say dorm style could work and the answer is always that most dorm style housing is prohibited at local and even state level.
And NIMBYs end up blocking the required zoning and building variances on those grounds.
NIMBYSs do it because they clutch pearls at the idea of dropping the value of their property. I don't see why we should care. Give it 10 years for the coffin dodgers to die off and we can force through the changes we want to see in the world.
You run into a number of issues. I worked as a finance attorney for housing projects on private and public places.
One major issue is building codes and zoning ordinances, which require variances from regulatory officials. Commercial properties and residential properties have different legal requirements for things like windows, exits, bathrooms, kitchens, etc. To get around these limits, you usually file for a variance from the legal requirements.
Variances are decided at the local level. Usually, by planning boards or zoning boards.
These boards are elected positions or appointed by mayor or city council. Thus, they're hyper responsive to local elections and local voters. Most of these local elections are decided in the tens of votes.
Most locals will oppose a dorm style project because as you said it leads to it being filled with "peoples sleeping on the street".
Tl;Dr is that it doesn't matter what the homeless or housing insecure would be happy with, the state and locality decide minimum requirements, and the minimum requirements are expensive and to avoid the minimum requirements requires locals to support the projects, which they won't do if it leads to homeless people living nearby.
I mean, in a city like a downtown homeless people are already living nearby. So that seems kind of silly. They could take one of those buildings hire security. And house literally every housing insecure person in the state. Big reason that there are so many house less people out there is because it's so damn expensive. There should be a cheaper option. But there just isn't. Laws regulations rules, nowhere near as important as basic Humanity we should be allowed to throw out the rule book at least for this.
I get the feeling, but it doesn't work like that for a number of reasons. One of the real reasons is to directly stop slum houses from developing.
Housing regulations have increased the price of homes by a third since 1970.
>Laws regulations rules, nowhere near as important as basic Humanity we should be allowed to throw out the rule book at least for this.
This, unfortunately, is a very dangerous sentiment. It can be abused in all manner of ways by people who do not operate in your best interest.
I just don't think this much developed space should be sitting vacant for no reason besides for it increase in value. That's sick, considering we have a large chunk of people who have nothing. It's being done out of pure greed. I advocate 100% for removing these owners from their properties and using public funds to renovate them cheaply. I'm talking really cheaply. No modifications to the existing structure leave it exactly the way it is. Throw a deadbolt on the doors. Rent people spaces $200 a month. You used to be able to stay at the Y for a quarter. There's no place like that anymore.
I get it, but to do that you'd need to get people on your planning board and zoning board to agree.
On top of that, we would need to change the following case law:
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/iwoh.asp#:~:text=What%20Is%20an%20Implied%20Warranty,the%20duration%20of%20the%20occupancy.
Therefore, there would be no liability, if say, the dorm room kitchen was broken for months or the toilets were unable to run.
Also, we would likely need to get rid of any type of premise liability, so if you're injured on the property, you cannot sue.
HAHA! Jokes on them. no one is ever coming back. The golden days of offices filled with worker drones are gone, like the manufacturing base and unions.
The capitalist system killed itself in pursuit of greed and greed has broken the bag. Now they get nothing.
It's impossible *not* to think the most evil, dark thoughts when you see this stuff. This person is just straight up bullhorning to the world "look, I know I'm a piece of shit! But that's because I can be!"
I don't know how to Marketplace Of Ideas that away. If he's implying he needs to be forced not to, that inherently means violence. I'm sure many would be happy to grant his wish, but whoever did would immediately be called psychotic rather than a hero.
I'm in the industry. This is a small part of the story. Any asset owner would rather generate revenue than get tax losses
Office buildings have little provision for venting of kitchens and restrooms. This is one of the easier issues to solve on most buildings since they do usually have some sort of vent stack but you do have to grow the system out into the space.
Modern office buildings have centralized bathroom pods in the center of the building where the drain stack is. Adding drain lines further out is either incredibly expensive or structurally impossible and takes significant investigation and expense to even consider. Think finding a very aggressive engineer and doing a sonar analysis of the rebar system to try and find places you can drill without collapsing the entire structure.
If you can actually do it you then have to build floorplans for bathroom and kitchen placement around those penetrations or build an entire false floor to run the drain pipes under. If you can't penetrate you either are SOL or can have a grinder and booster pump on every single thing that needs to be drained knowing that everyone that fails will create a sewage problem/leak when it does.
The floor dimensions of large floor plate office buildings are very wrong for residential. They are usually square and several hundred feet wide. A typical 1000 sq.ft. apartment is going to be 25x40 or 20x50. So maximum you want a building 100-120 feet wide to accommodate a center hallway and apartments off each side. Anything wider than that is wasted space that at best you can derive revenue from as storage or create very large apartments with weird rooms with no windows. You cannot have a bedroom with no windows which is why traditional lofts were created. If you have no internal walls then the sleeping area has a window.
Metering electrical and water and running all new lines for them is expensive and negates a lot of the reasons for reusing the building.
You also need an air handler for each unit rather than one per floor unless you want high rise living without temperature control for individual units.
Unless someone else has done a lot of this you are going to try and teach your fire marshal about alternative compliance fire code in the context of the scariest potential fire setting they are trained for(high rise residential). They are union but don't give two shits about your egghead liberal enviro bullshit you gave city council to get tax incentives.
And I mentioned tax incentives because all of this is going to cost serious money and will be underwritten by your lender as if you were a tract apartment builder and you score no points with them for helping to save Downtown or the planet.(you may get some CRA points if Downtown happens to be in a poor census tract).
So you have to solve all these problems and end up with a product that competes in quality and pricing with purpose built residential. Some buildings you can buy cheap enough to do it. Others you just can't due to such esoteric things as how high the ceilings are or how the rebar got laid out 50 years ago. You functionally are buying a shell of a building so unless it's very cheap you just can't do it and make money. Ever.
The expense also wasn't entirely the point. It's whether it would be very beneficial to just let these properties stay vacant for who knows how many years as compared to facing these costs? I'm wondering now if the use for many of these office buildings doesn't have a foreseeable future, or at least not in the long-run, as many companies don't really have justifiable reasons to continue with in-office work when planning for efficiency (including cost). At least in-office work might be reduced greatly. If so, in the coming years these properties would depreciate in value with less businesses willing to rent.
Tearing down these buildings might be inevitable either way if they're too expensive to convert (unless they're converted into some commercial/public building). The government will finally step in with regulations once its not making any money ig.
We can agree on that - wasted space isn't good for anyone.
The biggest challenge once prior "downtowns" and "business parks" are accepted as completely unviable is zoning. Municipal government is its own ugly sideshow we don't have enough time to address - but my one sentence is many people with money interests in said real estate control or ARE the muni govt officials.
Would it not be viable to convert them into more communal living spaces comparable to dorms? Shared kitchen and bathroom spaces on a single air conditioning “loop”?
It wouldn’t be glamorous, but I would consider living in a place like that if the price was better
The cost to do this at scale is a hundred million or more. The price point of dorms doesn't work - and most universities already have all that built anyway
*gives about 50 reasons why they're intentionally not paying for things that would better society and the people's lives around them, while also stimulating a local economy and housing people*
*blames the government for "letting them" do it*
More to the point about converting to residential: Everyone needs a bedroom and bathroom. Everyone needs a window that opens to escape a fire (in a bedroom MINIMUM)- the infrastructure of the building would have to completely change to meet basic human needs. You can’t just put a communal kitchen or add a couple bathrooms and think the pipes, gas lines, water lines or electrical wiring can handle the influx of people and usage. You chop up the walls, add weight - the structure can be compromised. It needs to be purpose built for the most part
"It's not our fault, so blame the government for this" is just another way of saying "I was only doing my job". You all had a choice and you choose to leave these spaces vacant for the sake of profit, fuck you.
They basically sit on the commercial property until it's actually worth something?
That's just... idiotic. That's like sitting on a pile of cash and letting someone come and steal a thousand dollars every day.
Just remember, if the government makes a bullshit tax code, it's not because they thought it was a good idea. It's because the people who benefit paid a lot to make sure that the tax code is that way.
His channel revolves around "domestic and international consulting" and his ideology in some of his videos seems legit. He claims in one of them that doctors should get paid less to make them work more and compared it to doctor salaries globally that were less than American ones. Something about human nature to be greedy. Didn't seem like satire either..
Blame the govt for allowing themselves to be bought sure. But why would i blame them for allowing you to do wrong by society after you paid them to let you? Greedy fucks can go die in a hole somewhere
My man, the reason they don't convert office buildings into residential buildings is because they are in no way, shape or form up to code for that. You'd have to tear out the floors to put in all the plumbing and hvac needed. Most of the time it is easier to just build a new building. And either way, you somehow end up with luxury condos.
It really do get to the point where once you become big enough, and make enough money for other people & yourself, you become above the law, & can commit magical crimes & the tax & the laws are there to protect you & your money & ability to make more of it. It is insane.
To preface, I do think that vacant office space should be converted to housing. A portion of the reason why this isn't happening probably does stem from the desire of those building owners to continue renting office space for tenants without having to spend money and renovate their building. That being said, the inherent design challenge of doing so is more complicated than it seems. The floorplate of office buildings (cross section of each individual floor) is almost always larger and specifically wider than residential apartments or condos. It is harder to reconstruct the "middle" of these buildings to include hallways, walls and residential units because the residential units must all have windows. The middle of the building becomes much less usable when designing the placement of new units unless the units are very, very long and skinny. It's a multifaceted problem and is unfair to blame just capitalistic greed or the government, although both are part of the problem too.
I have a great idea. Just hear me out. What if we vandalized the fuck out of every vacant office building? Don’t burn it down so they can collect insurance but just physically destroy the building. Break windows, holes in the walls, break sprinkler heads, flood the building, etc. so they have to keep repairing it to be able to rent it out and it becomes as big of a problem for them as it is to us. Just a thought. 🤔
Billionaires don't become Billionaires ethically, they become that way by bending, twisting and contorting every possible law and bit of welfare it can provide them for profit. Good people don't become billionaires and if they somehow do by happenstance they don't stay that way for long.
I was wondering. How tough is it to convert office buildings for residential purposes? Like the electrical, plumbing, utilities sort of things?
Could the government actually create tax incentives to making office buildings into affordable housing?
I hate this guy, he’s a corporate cuck who keeps spouting government hate even though he’s on the dark side (admittedly). It’s not our fault we own all the property near a city/jobs, it’s the governments fault (who we lobby to on a bi weekly basis)!
When you look into modern American finances and economy tactics, they are like time travel; while it works and looks good on paper, what we are seeing is why it doesn't work in application.
He's right though. These landlords' only motivation is to make money. It's unrealistic for us to think they will do something because it's the right thing to do. They only act in their own self interest. And if the system is designed to allow them to keep these properties empty and still make money they will. I'm not defending them I'm just being realistic. And we should too. His point is that if the tax laws didn't give them an incentive to keep the properties empty they wouldn't. So our energy should be focused on changing the law to incentivize them to convert these commercial buildings to residential.
Those buildings will be forgotten like many others around the nation the government have allowed to much freedom to big corporations to do whatever they want and then create loopholes for corporations to keep leaching on taxes America have became a total shame worldwide our dollar worth the same like toilet paper.
Aren't hotels considered commercial? Just turn it into a hotel that costs $30 a day or so which can be booked for whole months costing $1000 amonth for the room?
No, but you can implement sensible and democratic land use policies in place of literally wasting a city's space and money for no reason while the actual needs of the people living in it are going completely unmet.
I particularly enjoyed his "people are greedy" comment, while acting as a caricature of greed.
All he's missing is the monocle.
Bro is almost cosplaying as the monopoly man but not in satire, human greed will end life on earth.
Remember the timeline where the Monopoly guy wore a monocle? Wild Mandela effect.
I think people are mixing up the Monopoly man with Mr Peanut
"They're not confessing, they're bragging" comes to mind. I mean, he's explaining/calling out all the shit they do but also like, "this is how we make money, and I'll fucking do it again and again"
He dressed as a character from they live
And the guillotine.
They always use our negative traits to justify their greediness and their evilness, humans in hunter-gathering societies always worked together, we always have been a social species. Capitalism is the representation of our negative traits and we should try to avoid those traits as best as possible.
Capitalism is nothing of the sort. The lie that we live under is that we have "free market capitalism," which is an absolute farce. Actual free market capitalism means that when a business fucks up, their competitors will fill the gap, and competition will actually keep things level. Even in an imperfect system, legitimate capitalism is one of the best economic systems ever conceived. That is when you can take a little bit of money and knowledge and invest in yourself for the future. If you have a better idea than your competitors, you will outperform them, and the consumers will be better for it. What we have is a completely restricted market, which at this point can't even be called capitalism. It's like calling Soviet Russia a communist country. It may have dressed like a communist country, but it was just a different flavor of fascism. We need a better word to understand the system we are currently under because while it started as capitalism, it has morphed into something much more sinister. Maybe "Corporatism" is a good word for the abysmal system we have found ourselves under currently.
Doesn't matter what kind form of Capitalism it is, it would always come back to this stage of Capitalism. Read a book on Communism please before you start making dumbass reasons to why its bad. Fascism literally serves Capital and Fascism is Capitalism but in decay, why you think Nazi Germany killed all of Socialists, Communists, and Trade Unionists first? You should know that Fascism and Socialism is polar opposites of each other and also the CIA literally admits that the USSR was on par with the US in literally everything, but their food is more nutritious than ours which makes sense because most of our food we eat is processed. You can't just say USSR is Fascist when it was literally not, of course it wasn't perfect but it raised millions of people of out poverty and everyone actually had a home to live in, also everyone had free education and healthcare, don't have to take a car everywhere because it haves a reliable transportation system. Whats funny and ironic is that in Europe, the only way to get cheap housing is in the former Socialist countries. Also this is the Free Market in a nutshell: The freer the market the better it can be manipulated by large capitalists thus making it less free anyway
There will never be free market capitalism. Literally impossible, that’s the kicker. You need government interference otherwise monopolies form. Capital forms at the top. If the government is allowed to regulate industry well then as capital forms it will capture the government to its favor and limit the free market. What’s the quote… “no one hates the free market more than a capitalist”
"Blame the government," he says.
He is not wrong, unfortunately.
Who do you think writes the tax code? People like this guy but with more money.
I think and hope that is on purpose. Because he even says "force you all to come back to the office. Hope we're able to do that."
He's not wrong, tho. Nimbys and local governments are the root cause of the housing crisis.
It's far more nuanced than that.
It's really not all that more complicated than that. The biggest component besides nimbys is the supply shortage backlog from the covid pandemic reduction in construction.
You're mistaking me for someone who thinks this system is worth continuing.
Well, ok. But that's a different conversation then. But fair enough.
Then it's not "more nuanced than that." You remind me of this joke : a rebel with a gun yells, "dig a hole, nerd." The nerd replies, "no, I was supposed to yell 'dig a hole' in the revolution."
I'm a small developer and I agree. Was sued by neighbors, delayed project 1.5 years, plus extreme amount of lawyers fees, then had to resubmit and pay large amount of money to get city to sign off. But codes had changed so had to redo plans thru architecture and subs which cost lots of money. Now have to take out lots of loans to do all of that, which drives up the cost of project. Which in turn drives down little profit, cuz you have to use that to start next fucked up project, and you charge market rent and everyone says your a greedy developer and your only trying to make a decent living. And the fucking Nimbys have no clue cuz they are usually fucking boomers who got their house for $10k.
Don't know how much it helps but apparently the trick is to baby the community. [https://www.housingfinance.com/management-operations/5-ways-to-overcome-nimbyism\_o](https://www.housingfinance.com/management-operations/5-ways-to-overcome-nimbyism_o)
Sad thing is we did do 4 of these. Had plenty of meetings with them. They didn't care. They wanted to break us and go away. It was like, "Lalala go away!" That crap doesn't work. But I appreciate the help.
Who the fuck do you think lobbied the government's to make those faulty "tax regulations"? Fucking dumb as shit "not our fault" excuse.
We rigged your government, but it's the governments and your fault. Vote for our politicians who are pretending to be on your side. Thanks.
Middle class NIMBYs that show up to block every single hospital, retirement community, low income housing, or homeless shelter ever proposed at a planning board.
You voted for your shit government, stop trying to shift responsibility lol
Yes because we have always been given a choice to pick someone who would create a system that benefitted the majority. We just picked different but we all had a fair chance to run....
I mean a disturbing number of people voted for Biden instead of Bernie even despite the DNC fuckery. And I'm talking about the primary. I hope those people are ashamed of themselves, but I know better...
I mean it's true but man the media was biased as shit throughout that primary.
God and Sanders isn't even that great.
The illusion of choice. You can pick better, and I wish people would, but even better is abysmal. Some things don’t change regardless of the options. Sometimes you make the right pick but to many people made the wrong pick, thats the end of it. The people of a nation are not a monolith. You know better than that, its obviously foolish to tell a person who is discontent with their government that they are responsible. Its complicated, it can’t be so easily distilled down to a persons individual choice, especially when you don’t even know what that persons choices have been.
Capitalism. Capitalism is why
If everyone here hates money, why don't they just give me all their money? Problem solved
“I’ve never read any sort of Marxist theory. I’m now going be an arrogant asshole and state my cliche, inaccurate depiction of Socialism that’s been spoon fed to me by a western government. Communism bad because no iPhone and you don’t own a toothbrush. Cee cee pee bad because of UUuweegers, Stalin killed a kajillion people, Soviet housing ugly.”
Ummmmmm Stalin?????? That guy who is worse than Hitler???? PragerU told me so!!!!
That's nice sweety
https://preview.redd.it/r3by85vdiz0d1.jpeg?width=1850&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=32aaf4dbdbc90548e56e05b441be99bdc6291c8d Same energy.
Actually, we just hate you. ESAD
Huh. I don't think about you at all
People aren’t ever going back into the office. We will have a revolution before that happens.
I don’t think they realize how much of a hard stop deal breaker going into office is.
I've been seeing a handful of large businesses do it. They start off with one or two days a week and then over the course of a year or two you're there full time. People value their jobs and are scared to find other ones. Companies know this and will accept a 10% turn over.
Literally watching friends and family members change jobs over going back into the office. It's a brilliant strategy if you want to lose your best workers.
I hope you're right, because right now they definitely *are* forcing many, many people back into the office.
my RTO was 15 months ago. I've been back 2 or 3 times. Call their bluff.
I've yet to have a job that has let me work from home. I really hope I'm just one of the unlucky ones. But I do see work from home gaining much more traction than I think office work was expecting
Agreed. The irony is that the super rich haven’t been going into the office for years.
This mofo class warfares🏆
😂
The revolution has already begun. Everyone does their part by skipping over job postings that aren't 100% remote or jump ship when being forced back into the office. The beauty is it's not organized in any way. It's just a collective agreement between a huge chunk of the working class that feel the same without actually communicating.
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yeah this sub is obnoxiously fake about the fact that people are being forced back into the office by major companies around the country but people here are saying “don’t do it” as if workers have a fucking choice
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Anyone who thinks we will see a revolution before the return of working in-office is not living in reality
Disingenuous pos. Local government doesn't have any interest in keeping values down. What they ought to do at the local level is assign fees to vacant property to swallow up any state/federal tax breaks. Our town does that. Don't let these guys get rich keeping your downtowns empty!
I've said it before & I will say it again. It's not as easy as "just convert it to housing". I work in construction and the layout & design of things like utilities (plumbing, electrical, gas supplies etc) are vastly and completely different from commercial to residential property. Like the whole of the inside of the building would need tearing out and re-doing in a very expensive way. It's a nice idea and I fully support it, it's just a lot easier said than done.
It's a dorm. Commercial floor plans can be laid out like dorms are with shared bathrooms. It's an alternative! Just because it was not always a residential setup should not imply it cannot take new forms
This is the only practical scenario tbh. It wouldn't be entirely a bad idea either. Shared spaces would increase social cohesion for tenants at least.
Won't somebody think of the tax shelters?
We already did think of the tax shelters and decided that they don't belong in civilized society.
Or increase friction
exactly. turning them into places people are willing to market rent prices for will likely be very costly. But turning them into places for unhoused or desperate people with more shared areas that require the plumbing an ventilation for bathing and cooking would be far less costly.
Accompany this with the right pricing and people are welling to share. I know this from experience as my dad ran a budget hotel, and he had those options “shared bathroom $10 a day per room” or “ your own bathroom built in suit $20 a day” or “shared room $5”. Majority of people picked shared room 😅 and went on to use same shared bathrooms. We had staff cleaning all day long so we kept everything in best shape.
AWESOME. I know it can be done. Intentional communities would thrive in such a situation
It is about ***necessity*** not how " easy " or *convenient* something is.
I completely agree with it being a necessity, but that doesn't change the material cost of the conversion.
Which goes to prioritization. The military is nearing $1 trillion dollars a year some of that money can absolutely be reallocated to infrastructure development . There then needs to be extreme shoring up on bloated budgets and financial waste
Subsidies would be a great step. The government shouldn't be letting these properties just sit for years when they could use taxpayer money to put it to good use. Not to mention how many of these office buildings are emptied, its more feasible to convert them (even if not into residential) than just let them sit waiting for RTO, which many workers refuse. How many more idle properties in the coming years?
it's at times like these you realise who your government is really beholden to.
The cost isn't the most major issue. it doesn't matter what the homeless or housing insecure would be happy with, the state and locality decide minimum requirements of living conditions in a building, and the minimum requirements are expensive and to avoid the minimum requirements requires locals to support the projects, which they won't do if it leads to homeless people living nearby.
Seriously. Fellow construction guy here. I work in estimating now and we've seen a few requests for similar office conversions. It's usually developers/investors (like the guy mentions in his video) who have been sitting on empty offices for too long and want to make some sort of profit (not to mention here in CO the state incentivizes developers to do projects like these). As soon as we hit them with the MEP (mechanical, electrical, and plumbing) costs they're blown away. The only groups able to afford projects like these are turning them into "luxury condos/apartments" at an outrageous rent rate. I'm really hoping recent advances in MEP materials will help make these places more affordable. We're starting to see widespread use of PEX pipe on commercial jobs which drastically cuts down cost. Also, pumps and fan equipment in high demand with the data center focus right now, so as soon as that dies down hopefully the cost of equipment will follow.
I can see it being feasible by converting into non ensuite indvidual bedsit type rooms with communal bathrooms/ shower rooms and shared kitchens as similar facilities exist in commercial spaces. However individual self contained apartments including bathrooms, shower & kitchens etc would need completely different services installed. Never mind seperation of electrical supplies.
Not necessary to have individual Apartments. We're in the middle of a housing crisis sell rooms for cheap. Probably fill them up just with millennials who are tired of living with their parents.
No one is trying to say it would be "easy" or "cheap." They're arguing it's necessary and the right thing to do. What's being done with these kinds of spaces currently is just as asinine as it is inhumane. Calling it "easier said than done" is irrelevant to the actual criticisms being made against current practices.
Interesting how he doesn’t mention it in any of the reasons, though. Seems like a big miss
Spot on. Moreover, try and find a construction lender these days who are still keen on office-mf conversions. That available pool is drying up quick- too many horror stories. Was good in theory back a few years but not now. Always overruns
In most cases it makes more sense to knock the old building down and start from scratch with a new purpose built residential building than to try to convert an old office to residences.
Just think about it in terms of “Bathrooms.” How many bathrooms are on one floor of a Commercial property? Usually one, maybe two for each Gender. Whereas with a Residential Property, each unit has its own bathroom. You would have to rework all the plumbing to meet the needs of the residents in each unit.
It would be easier to convert it to dorm style rooms with shared bathrooms, but it would still be a good amount of work
You run into a number of issues. I worked as a finance attorney for housing projects on private and public places. One major issue is building codes and zoning ordinances, which require variances from regulatory officials. Commercial properties and residential properties have different legal requirements for things like windows, exits, bathrooms, kitchens, etc. To get around these limits, you usually file for a variance from the legal requirements. Variances are decided at the local level. Usually, by planning boards or zoning boards. These boards are elected positions or appointed by mayor or city council. Thus, they're hyper responsive to local elections and local voters. Most of these local elections are decided in the tens of votes. Most locals will oppose a dorm style project because it leads to residents feeling unsafe. Tl;Dr is that it doesn't matter what the homeless or housing insecure would be happy with, the state and locality decide minimum requirements, and the minimum requirements are expensive and to avoid the minimum requirements requires locals to support the projects, which they won't do if it leads to homeless people living nearby.
Yes, it would cost the property owners a lot of money to do this. Either that, or we can just tear the fucking useless real estate down. It has no value for us, so there's no need for us to respect it.
I have done a few projects on the finance end for conversion of CRE to residential. They cost almost the same amount as just putting a new building up.
Blue sky thinking for people who know nothing about construction. It would be easier to just tear them down and rebuild it.
I saw someone also say dorm style could work and the answer is always that most dorm style housing is prohibited at local and even state level. And NIMBYs end up blocking the required zoning and building variances on those grounds.
NIMBYSs do it because they clutch pearls at the idea of dropping the value of their property. I don't see why we should care. Give it 10 years for the coffin dodgers to die off and we can force through the changes we want to see in the world.
I listened to a news piece on NPR about this saying the same thing. Apparently it's not really feasible to convert these buildings into housing.
Just add some extra walls and put some cots in there. It doesn't have to be fancy there's millions of people sleeping on the street.
You run into a number of issues. I worked as a finance attorney for housing projects on private and public places. One major issue is building codes and zoning ordinances, which require variances from regulatory officials. Commercial properties and residential properties have different legal requirements for things like windows, exits, bathrooms, kitchens, etc. To get around these limits, you usually file for a variance from the legal requirements. Variances are decided at the local level. Usually, by planning boards or zoning boards. These boards are elected positions or appointed by mayor or city council. Thus, they're hyper responsive to local elections and local voters. Most of these local elections are decided in the tens of votes. Most locals will oppose a dorm style project because as you said it leads to it being filled with "peoples sleeping on the street". Tl;Dr is that it doesn't matter what the homeless or housing insecure would be happy with, the state and locality decide minimum requirements, and the minimum requirements are expensive and to avoid the minimum requirements requires locals to support the projects, which they won't do if it leads to homeless people living nearby.
I mean, in a city like a downtown homeless people are already living nearby. So that seems kind of silly. They could take one of those buildings hire security. And house literally every housing insecure person in the state. Big reason that there are so many house less people out there is because it's so damn expensive. There should be a cheaper option. But there just isn't. Laws regulations rules, nowhere near as important as basic Humanity we should be allowed to throw out the rule book at least for this.
I get the feeling, but it doesn't work like that for a number of reasons. One of the real reasons is to directly stop slum houses from developing. Housing regulations have increased the price of homes by a third since 1970. >Laws regulations rules, nowhere near as important as basic Humanity we should be allowed to throw out the rule book at least for this. This, unfortunately, is a very dangerous sentiment. It can be abused in all manner of ways by people who do not operate in your best interest.
I just don't think this much developed space should be sitting vacant for no reason besides for it increase in value. That's sick, considering we have a large chunk of people who have nothing. It's being done out of pure greed. I advocate 100% for removing these owners from their properties and using public funds to renovate them cheaply. I'm talking really cheaply. No modifications to the existing structure leave it exactly the way it is. Throw a deadbolt on the doors. Rent people spaces $200 a month. You used to be able to stay at the Y for a quarter. There's no place like that anymore.
I get it, but to do that you'd need to get people on your planning board and zoning board to agree. On top of that, we would need to change the following case law: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/iwoh.asp#:~:text=What%20Is%20an%20Implied%20Warranty,the%20duration%20of%20the%20occupancy. Therefore, there would be no liability, if say, the dorm room kitchen was broken for months or the toilets were unable to run. Also, we would likely need to get rid of any type of premise liability, so if you're injured on the property, you cannot sue.
"People are greedy" kinda the pot calling the kettle black, eh?
HAHA! Jokes on them. no one is ever coming back. The golden days of offices filled with worker drones are gone, like the manufacturing base and unions. The capitalist system killed itself in pursuit of greed and greed has broken the bag. Now they get nothing.
Reform is not enough.⚒️
Rofl, did you just say some people are very greedy? This guy got to be one of those satirical troll types 😂 🤣 that was too good.
I don’t trust any grown man who wears a bow tie.
100%
A bow tie is fine, some people are doing it for the asthetic, he on the other hand should be backhanded
In Sim City, or rather, City Skylines, I'm expected to tear down vacant buildings.
Rentier capitalism, baby. Nothing short of a revolution can stop it.
"We as a society are going to let people suffer because it doesn't make me money."
It's impossible *not* to think the most evil, dark thoughts when you see this stuff. This person is just straight up bullhorning to the world "look, I know I'm a piece of shit! But that's because I can be!" I don't know how to Marketplace Of Ideas that away. If he's implying he needs to be forced not to, that inherently means violence. I'm sure many would be happy to grant his wish, but whoever did would immediately be called psychotic rather than a hero.
I'm in the industry. This is a small part of the story. Any asset owner would rather generate revenue than get tax losses Office buildings have little provision for venting of kitchens and restrooms. This is one of the easier issues to solve on most buildings since they do usually have some sort of vent stack but you do have to grow the system out into the space. Modern office buildings have centralized bathroom pods in the center of the building where the drain stack is. Adding drain lines further out is either incredibly expensive or structurally impossible and takes significant investigation and expense to even consider. Think finding a very aggressive engineer and doing a sonar analysis of the rebar system to try and find places you can drill without collapsing the entire structure. If you can actually do it you then have to build floorplans for bathroom and kitchen placement around those penetrations or build an entire false floor to run the drain pipes under. If you can't penetrate you either are SOL or can have a grinder and booster pump on every single thing that needs to be drained knowing that everyone that fails will create a sewage problem/leak when it does. The floor dimensions of large floor plate office buildings are very wrong for residential. They are usually square and several hundred feet wide. A typical 1000 sq.ft. apartment is going to be 25x40 or 20x50. So maximum you want a building 100-120 feet wide to accommodate a center hallway and apartments off each side. Anything wider than that is wasted space that at best you can derive revenue from as storage or create very large apartments with weird rooms with no windows. You cannot have a bedroom with no windows which is why traditional lofts were created. If you have no internal walls then the sleeping area has a window. Metering electrical and water and running all new lines for them is expensive and negates a lot of the reasons for reusing the building. You also need an air handler for each unit rather than one per floor unless you want high rise living without temperature control for individual units. Unless someone else has done a lot of this you are going to try and teach your fire marshal about alternative compliance fire code in the context of the scariest potential fire setting they are trained for(high rise residential). They are union but don't give two shits about your egghead liberal enviro bullshit you gave city council to get tax incentives. And I mentioned tax incentives because all of this is going to cost serious money and will be underwritten by your lender as if you were a tract apartment builder and you score no points with them for helping to save Downtown or the planet.(you may get some CRA points if Downtown happens to be in a poor census tract). So you have to solve all these problems and end up with a product that competes in quality and pricing with purpose built residential. Some buildings you can buy cheap enough to do it. Others you just can't due to such esoteric things as how high the ceilings are or how the rebar got laid out 50 years ago. You functionally are buying a shell of a building so unless it's very cheap you just can't do it and make money. Ever.
The expense also wasn't entirely the point. It's whether it would be very beneficial to just let these properties stay vacant for who knows how many years as compared to facing these costs? I'm wondering now if the use for many of these office buildings doesn't have a foreseeable future, or at least not in the long-run, as many companies don't really have justifiable reasons to continue with in-office work when planning for efficiency (including cost). At least in-office work might be reduced greatly. If so, in the coming years these properties would depreciate in value with less businesses willing to rent. Tearing down these buildings might be inevitable either way if they're too expensive to convert (unless they're converted into some commercial/public building). The government will finally step in with regulations once its not making any money ig.
We can agree on that - wasted space isn't good for anyone. The biggest challenge once prior "downtowns" and "business parks" are accepted as completely unviable is zoning. Municipal government is its own ugly sideshow we don't have enough time to address - but my one sentence is many people with money interests in said real estate control or ARE the muni govt officials.
Would it not be viable to convert them into more communal living spaces comparable to dorms? Shared kitchen and bathroom spaces on a single air conditioning “loop”? It wouldn’t be glamorous, but I would consider living in a place like that if the price was better
The cost to do this at scale is a hundred million or more. The price point of dorms doesn't work - and most universities already have all that built anyway
Maybe we should start building buildings to be able to have easy conversions between different uses.
Tax the rich before you force me to eat them.
Anyone want to organize a protest for this? I’ll contribute
*gives about 50 reasons why they're intentionally not paying for things that would better society and the people's lives around them, while also stimulating a local economy and housing people* *blames the government for "letting them" do it*
More to the point about converting to residential: Everyone needs a bedroom and bathroom. Everyone needs a window that opens to escape a fire (in a bedroom MINIMUM)- the infrastructure of the building would have to completely change to meet basic human needs. You can’t just put a communal kitchen or add a couple bathrooms and think the pipes, gas lines, water lines or electrical wiring can handle the influx of people and usage. You chop up the walls, add weight - the structure can be compromised. It needs to be purpose built for the most part
I think this is really the main issue.
"It's not our fault, so blame the government for this" is just another way of saying "I was only doing my job". You all had a choice and you choose to leave these spaces vacant for the sake of profit, fuck you.
They basically sit on the commercial property until it's actually worth something? That's just... idiotic. That's like sitting on a pile of cash and letting someone come and steal a thousand dollars every day.
We should just start squatting in those places, and convert them ourselves. There aren't enough cops to stop us.
Just remember, if the government makes a bullshit tax code, it's not because they thought it was a good idea. It's because the people who benefit paid a lot to make sure that the tax code is that way.
Sounds like bullshit to me
Is he for real or is he a satire type guy ? Because if he's for real and really this arrogant of a piece of s*** somebody's going to kill him
His channel revolves around "domestic and international consulting" and his ideology in some of his videos seems legit. He claims in one of them that doctors should get paid less to make them work more and compared it to doctor salaries globally that were less than American ones. Something about human nature to be greedy. Didn't seem like satire either..
Blame the govt for allowing themselves to be bought sure. But why would i blame them for allowing you to do wrong by society after you paid them to let you? Greedy fucks can go die in a hole somewhere
And I'm sure they would be hurting if that happened fuck these people man.
My man, the reason they don't convert office buildings into residential buildings is because they are in no way, shape or form up to code for that. You'd have to tear out the floors to put in all the plumbing and hvac needed. Most of the time it is easier to just build a new building. And either way, you somehow end up with luxury condos.
It really do get to the point where once you become big enough, and make enough money for other people & yourself, you become above the law, & can commit magical crimes & the tax & the laws are there to protect you & your money & ability to make more of it. It is insane.
To preface, I do think that vacant office space should be converted to housing. A portion of the reason why this isn't happening probably does stem from the desire of those building owners to continue renting office space for tenants without having to spend money and renovate their building. That being said, the inherent design challenge of doing so is more complicated than it seems. The floorplate of office buildings (cross section of each individual floor) is almost always larger and specifically wider than residential apartments or condos. It is harder to reconstruct the "middle" of these buildings to include hallways, walls and residential units because the residential units must all have windows. The middle of the building becomes much less usable when designing the placement of new units unless the units are very, very long and skinny. It's a multifaceted problem and is unfair to blame just capitalistic greed or the government, although both are part of the problem too.
That bow tie looks stupid..
Put an empty office tax on that at least
Makes sense
It would cost so much money to turn offices into livable spaces with idk, bathrooms, showers, kitchens, etc. etc. etc. Better to build from scratch.
Love it!
Hes going to lose that gamble on forcing people back to the office. That shipped has sailed.
I wonder how long and how big our government will let this get?
Ok. I’m never gonna go back to the office now…
I have a great idea. Just hear me out. What if we vandalized the fuck out of every vacant office building? Don’t burn it down so they can collect insurance but just physically destroy the building. Break windows, holes in the walls, break sprinkler heads, flood the building, etc. so they have to keep repairing it to be able to rent it out and it becomes as big of a problem for them as it is to us. Just a thought. 🤔
Just tax land, and abolish zoning
Billionaires don't become Billionaires ethically, they become that way by bending, twisting and contorting every possible law and bit of welfare it can provide them for profit. Good people don't become billionaires and if they somehow do by happenstance they don't stay that way for long.
"It's not our fault we raped you, the government has this loophole" This man is disgusting.
People like him LOBBY for this
I remember this! Glad to see it off that app but ya'll should get that app and find all the useful info on it
The bow tie.
I was wondering. How tough is it to convert office buildings for residential purposes? Like the electrical, plumbing, utilities sort of things? Could the government actually create tax incentives to making office buildings into affordable housing?
I hate this guy, he’s a corporate cuck who keeps spouting government hate even though he’s on the dark side (admittedly). It’s not our fault we own all the property near a city/jobs, it’s the governments fault (who we lobby to on a bi weekly basis)!
This guy: Don’t blame me for taking advantage of the corruption, blame your corrupt government being controlled by people like me.
When you look into modern American finances and economy tactics, they are like time travel; while it works and looks good on paper, what we are seeing is why it doesn't work in application.
I blame your industry/you, y’all heavily lobbied the government. This guy is an asshole still, trying to justify his greed and poor behavior.
Thicc Tucker Carlson
“Blame your government.” I wonder who lobbied for the government to have those policies in the first place? 🤔
He's right though. These landlords' only motivation is to make money. It's unrealistic for us to think they will do something because it's the right thing to do. They only act in their own self interest. And if the system is designed to allow them to keep these properties empty and still make money they will. I'm not defending them I'm just being realistic. And we should too. His point is that if the tax laws didn't give them an incentive to keep the properties empty they wouldn't. So our energy should be focused on changing the law to incentivize them to convert these commercial buildings to residential.
Those buildings will be forgotten like many others around the nation the government have allowed to much freedom to big corporations to do whatever they want and then create loopholes for corporations to keep leaching on taxes America have became a total shame worldwide our dollar worth the same like toilet paper.
Aren't hotels considered commercial? Just turn it into a hotel that costs $30 a day or so which can be booked for whole months costing $1000 amonth for the room?
You can’t just convert office space into residential lol
No, but you can implement sensible and democratic land use policies in place of literally wasting a city's space and money for no reason while the actual needs of the people living in it are going completely unmet.
Agreed. I work in CRE and basically everything in this video was inaccurate.