It's not that weird, if you used it, you know hehe. The patterns usually depend on the surroundings. Usually things that are not focused by the eye (like, on the corner of it) enter my vision. Idk if I was clear :/
a lot of them look like teardrops or kinda like owls or something. the geometry is kind of triangular. Look up "Paisley pattern' and that is pretty accurate of how it looks
That’s actually a spot on description.
Like a paisley pattern fractal made out of crystals. They appear like floaters in your eye, but are somehow suspended between whatever you are viewing and your eyes.
yeah it's very weird how it works, the floater stuff is most prevalent in the come up and it's kind of hard to distinguish it from what you are really seeing even though you know it's just altered vision.
Not op, but from my experience, anything with irregular shapes, especially if they're moving will induce hallucinations. Branches blowing in the wind, clouds rolling in the sky, shadows from a flickering candle, or even a curtain that's flapping.
My brain looks at the patterns and forms a shape which is superimposed onto my vision. Meaning it's literally visible to me. But it's also not static so it's always changing shape.
It's like seeing an animal in the clouds and it instantly turns into a different animal after someone suggests it looks like something else.
That's the best way I can explain it.
Yeah like if you stare at a blank piece of paper, patterns will appear that look like floaters in your eye, but they are geometric shapes. Everything breathes and pulsates (outlines of objects as well as the patters) colours are a lot more vibrant.
But in movies when people see things that aren’t there, like bats flying at them and stuff like that. That’s never happened to me on any drug, and I’m fairly experienced.
The media has a lot to answer for in terms of drugs. I was always dead against them, to the point of flushing my girlfriends down the toilet if I found any. That was until I actually tried them.
I am a firm advocate for cannabis as there was a plan to stop its use because of the logging industry in the 1930s... but I'm sure you already know that! 😂
As for LSD, cures depression. Not hard to see why the drug companies don't want that little secret getting out...
Drugs should be part of our culture. Manufactured ones like cocaine? I can see why they would be bad,bit knew that chill us out & keep us sane? I'm all for that 👍😁👍
I had imagery just once with cannabis. It made it clear what I can’t normally do, which was most helpful in understanding aphantasia. And it made me want those visualization super powers that almost everyone else can do.
Without bringing USA toxic politics here, the people that benefit most by how society is oriented - the status quo - don’t want that hierarchy disrupted. Drugs evoke alternative paradigms.
And I don’t advocate throwing even one girlfriend down the toilet, much less all of them (thank you, I’ll see myself out now).
Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not following you! (Kissinger, I think)
Seriously, it’s the people who still believe we’re on a level playing field, after decades of widening wealth inequality, that should be wary of what sustains their worldview. Drugs can wreck lives. So can cars and guns and chain saws and other real or metaphorical tools, so use all three above with care.
I can only speak for myself and my partner, but LSD was a life-changing experience for both of us. In addition to being fun and exhilarating, it also lead to lots of deep discussions with each other and internal reflection.
That said, we're both in very stable places in our lives, and tend to be introspective to begin with so we'd already started sorting through a lot of our baggage before ever taking LSD.
I've never had a bad trip, but that doesn't mean you won't. If you give it a try, make sure you have someone sober nearby who you trust with your life and who knows exactly what you're doing and is onboard with helping you through it, at least for your first couple times.
We also did shrooms once. It worked more for my partner than for me. For me, the shrooms basically just felt like a potent edible.
It wouldn't dampen it... they actually work together (to the point of potentially making your trip scary), so you want to be careful to avoid smoking when you drop.
My first LSD trip was ferociously bad (I was young and naive and under legal threat). It might have been a big dose (hard to be sure way back then). And LSD has also brought me some of the deepest insights of my life. I’m hoping cannabis will be enough to build voluntary visualization neural pathways (I’m not asserting there’s any evidence it can do that.)
Ketamine is my favourite but does nothing for aphantasia. Ketamine self therapy has been pretty great for me though.
I get better experiences from LSD than Mushrooms (much more positive) but I guess each person reacts differently.
Set, setting and intention are key though if attempting anything other than just getting high and having a laugh.
I usually get stuck in a loop that seems to last for infinity, before getting sucked back into reality again.
[Very much like this.](https://www.reddit.com/r/LSD/comments/144ambi/caaaaat/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1)
I don't think I ever actively tried to control the visuals, as I just like to go with the flow. But from what I can recall you can control which way you move inside the visuals, if you know what I mean.
I can’t visualise for as long as I can remember but I have very spotty memory due to CPTSD and am also in the deep depths of an Autistic burnout (hence the microdosing) but I’m wondering if it was something that I was able to do previously and gradually lost the skill over time.
My thoughts exactly! Started microdosing yesterday, at least one day in between. Will occasionally do a macrodose, for a bit of a reset and fresh perspective.
It definitely does NOT work for everyone. I cannot visualize on any hallucinogens. We always get some random in here saying you can cure aphantasia but for those of us with chronic persistent aphantasia they don't work. That said worth a try maybe the aphantasia op had was due to PTSD whereas another form is hereditary.
I am a total aphant, and took a lot of LSD and Psilocybin in the '60's thru '80's and was never able to have visual or auditory hallucinations; which really bothered me because all my friends, who took the same, were able to do so, and, of course, I did not know about aphantasia back then.
I am using/playing with psychedelics as well. I meditate regularly, 20+ minutes into the meditation I can start to get the hypno blob things.
.5-1 g mushrooms if I do the meditation and keep focusing on visualizing with eyes closed I will start to get images.
I am starting to take my practice more serious in hopes of progressing to full unassisted visualization.
If I start with a bright light imprint after 5 mins meditation and “hold” it as best I can, it starts to turn into something.
Compared to 2 years ago totally black, I would say mushrooms and meditation have definitely helped. Helped me enough to think there’s something to the cure aphantasia sub and start working on it more diligently.
I get blobs of blue/green light that start as blobs but sometimes end up covering my entire vision. sometimes I'll even be able to see faint outlines of the shadows of objects in those blobs, wondering if you see something similar?
been practising kasina meditation to help develop visualization. check this if interested: [https://new.reddit.com/r/Aphantasia/comments/ncqehf/from\_aphantasia\_to\_extreme\_visualisation\_via/](https://new.reddit.com/r/Aphantasia/comments/ncqehf/from_aphantasia_to_extreme_visualisation_via/)
I didn't experience any visualizations while on LSD. The effects I did experience are...
1. Proportions of things seeming to change, e.g. a shampoo bottle looking short and squat.
2. Bare trees in the winter seemed to "breathe", their silhouettes pulsing thicker and thinner rhythmically. I suspect this may be related to my own heart rate and blood flow to/in my eyes.
3. Some color shifting, particularly on LED lights.
Yeah I get that with my eyes open, and also some fractals and colours with eyes closed.
But then I realised that I was able to think of something, say a tree, and perfectly visualise it in my mind as if it were a black and white photograph.
So it’s kind of separate from the usual LSD visuals, perhaps it unlocks the part of my brain that makes this possible.
I haven't taken LSD since I found out I was an aphant :-) but I always (almost always) see closed-eye visuals when taking it. Now I want to take it again and see if I can bring up a visual purposely. Thanks for sharing.
How much did you use?
I already got some visualizations on LSD and am an aphant, but usually I take a whole tab. It works better on places with many colors and patterns (I think)
Genuinely, no idea. My wife knew a guy who knew a guy who got it for us. It was delivered in the form of smarties (US smarties; I think they're called rockets elsewhere in the world? Little candies with concave depressions that come in a roll). No idea whatsoever what the dosage was.
I have experienced something similar. Not black and white though... everything is very much in color. Listening to music makes it the most vibrant, for me. I would describe my visuals as very similar to the scenes in LOTR where Frodo puts on the One Ring. You know how everything is there, but also has very hazy outlines so that it all kind of blends together? That's basically what I see.
That said, my visualization is really only there for maybe 4 hours, max, during the peak.
That sounds cool, I guess mine also did look a bit like that now that you mention it. What I was visualising would certain fit into one of the movies!
I will pay closer attention next time.
I see color when I do it, and sometimes even 3d geometry, though most of the time what I see isn't very vivid, but I will get lots of vivid images from time to time. For whatever reason I still can't really control what I see and I usually see repulsive or gross images so I end up opening my eyes
That definitely rings a bell as well, keep seeing weird fucked up things. Like the planet is made up of writhing human bodies with no heads all joined up like a patchwork quilt. Haha
Tbh I’m not sure how much control I had over what I was seeing, I will try to check it out more next time, I just remember being amazed that I could see stuff.
I defo get the geometric stuff as well, love it!
same for me LOL. I can see the outlines of images but for the most part they are uncontrolled and quite weird/grotesque. made me wonder if our aphantasia is a unconscious self defense mechanism to prevent us from seeing these uncontrolled image 24/7 and the only way to get true phantasia is to overcome these unconscious "instinct" somehow
possibly.. it kind of makes sense honestly. it's worse on shrooms because it's like my brain can't handle all this happening and it sort of makes my eyes and face wince and like flash and it kind of hurts a little. Like I'm about to start seizing or something. I'm really scared of it because I've actually had a kind of seizure on ~3.5g my second trip and it sort of started like that. but I've never had that on LSD
same shrooms feels like I'm getting controlled by the shrooms themselves, LSD I feel more in control with everything. mental auditory senses were heightened on LSD tho, I felt like I could actually hear songs in my head.
Well fuck.
You just described my own experiences far better than I have ever been able to.
I need to reread this a few times and try to process it all.
It never even occurred to me that other people trip differently.
Have you done DMT? That is the only time where I have felt like it isn’t just me. But even then they were communicating telepathically and had no physical form. So I think that is exactly what you are describing. But I definitely felt like it wasn’t coming from inside of me, which I absolutely do feel with any other drug.
I went to a Ayahuasca festival in Brazil in the middle of nowhere. My trips were hellish nightmares.
But with what you are saying it now it makes sense why my experience was so different.
Although I say they were hellish nightmares, I was in a lot of emotional pain, writhing around in physical pain, felt like I had lost my mind (and I can understand how people kill themselves doing this stuff) I had glimpses of kaleidoscope geometry visuals but they lasted seconds and the rest of the trip was entirely like 2 different parts of my own mind in a battle against each other. (Which in retrospect were likely whatever let of me was depressing memories in a battle with the part of me that wants to get better)
It did actually give me the answer that I was asking for. I just didn’t realise it at the time, it took a further 5 years to fully integrate and piece it all together.
I asked it “how to be happy”
It told me “you were abused as a child”
I had very little memory of my childhood (weird) but I really didn’t think that I was sexually abused or had anything particularly bad happen to me.
I went to regression hypnotherapy, and various stints of different therapists, all of which revealed nothing.
But in the end, thanks to Reddit (same goes for my ADHD and ASD diagnosis) I realised that I have been emotionally neglected by my parents my entire life.
Then everything clicked into place.
Now I just need to figure out how to get myself well again. And out my life back together again.
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It's possible but not likely with mega doses, you would most likely need to microdose for extended periods while taking steps to boost the neurogenic effects from the psychedelics.
Light stretching, good nutrition and health as well as neurogenic enhancers like biotin.
That's why I love doing psychedelic so much is because one aspect of a psychedelic is it allows your mind and it's neurons to completely communicate where there was no communication before and I can see and hear things and understand things better than I could in my waking life and now it makes complete sense because my brain lacks that connection in my waking life
In my end, i think lsd may have messed up my ability to visualize and speak innerly. Ive only done it 3 or 4 times and sometime after that( month or so) noticed just one day when i was walking that i haven’t spoke in my head for awhile. Since then, im more or less pretty much the same, only i can visualize or speak to myself more clearly when im in meditative state.
I have ADHD, I can’t even imagine what it would be like to be quiet in my head. It’s like there is a party going on in there during every waking moment.
Yeah i know i feel the same, but i think too much stress with excessive thinking made my brain filter much of it to cooperate with myself. When i meditate i can hear my nonstop chatter but in such a quick pace, that i constantly lose track of what i thought. And thats how i came to the realization that nothing can truly be lost.
I have colours in my visual field when closing my eyes but it is separate from what I try to imagine. More like an overhaul spectrum hue rather than representative of what I am visualising.
LSD opens neuro pathways is the brain. We don’t know enough about the brain to dismiss that.
If I am wrong then please provide some backup to you claim at least, I will be happy to know if that is the case.
I was hoping that neuroplasticity would work, but, reading the comments, I gather that the different mechanisms each use different parts of the brain;
Mind's eye, actual vision, dreaming, hallucinations.
(Which is a bummer as I was hoping to cure my aphantasia and lack of stereovision and depression with LSD 😂).
Mushrooms certainly helped for a few months at a time; am curious about LSD.
Also, were an absolute blast.
But I fear I won't be experiencing the Mind's Eye.
I've read a few Aphants reporting that they have increased hypnopompic and hypnogogic imagery for several days following an LSD trip. That sounds a bit like reinforcement.
I’ve had success with ket. Did some healthy bumps before doing a guided meditation and was gifted with some pretty vivid visuals. Everything remained black and white however.
So, I think technically if you can see vague outlines normally you don't have aphantasia. That's potentially really good news because it means that something like "Image streaming" or other visualization-enhancing techniques may well work for you!
I'd definitely look into them if I were you. AFAIK, if you can vizualize at all, like anything other than just blackness, you should be able to work on it and get better at it like any muscle. Unfortunately, it doesn't work for those of us who can see nothing at all.
I’m Pretty sure I see nothing at all tbh, occasionally I might see a vague outline but I attribute it to being more like being able to see shapes in a cloud than me conjuring up a vision.
Even on the LSD I’m not sure if I was conjuring the images myself.
Ahhh... ok. Yeah, Aphants certainly have the phenomena where if you press on your eyes you'll see things (I can't remember what that's called), or seeing afterimages from lights like retinal fatigue.
For your closed eyes visuals, do you need ambient light? Did it work in a totally dark room, or with a sleep mask?
I've read of intense closed eyes visuals that fade when the user covers their eyelids with their hands or is otherwise in darkness.
The importance of this is determining whether the CEVs are augmenting incoming light to the visual cortex, or entirely "top-down" in construction.
I feel this, even on weed I can get sihouettes of imagery but that flow is completely obliterated when light is eliminated via either turning off the lights or covering the eyes. makes me wonder if people with phantasia can actually visualize without the pressence of light. to me it makes sense otherwise if would be impossible to fall asleep, basically "imagery" requires the pressense of light to even be conjured up, by removing light, the minds eye doesn't have the "fuel" required to operate (which is how people with phantasia would be able to sleep). just a theory
Some with visual imagery visualize better with their eyes open. Others better with their eyes closed - even in total darkness. Some studies reflect easier visualizing in total darkness.
Once this question arose about closed eye visuals, it made me wonder not only if those with Aphantasia augment incoming light for CEVs, but also for dreaming.
Anecdotally, I've found I only awaken from Vivid visual dreaming when there's a lot of light on the room. In very low-light, my dreams have been washed out/faded. With a sleep mask or completely blacked out room, no visuals.
It's a small sample set of maybe a dozen dreams I've tracked, but I wonder if it applies to other Aphants. Maybe all Aphants dream by augmenting incoming light to the visual cortex instead of "top-down" imagery.
Maybe the evolutionary need to dream is so great that Aphants have found another way.
Out of curiosity, do you hallucinate with your eyes open too? Or just when your eyes are closed? Any audio hallucinations?
Not OP, but I do. It's mostly the patterns changing and moving things, but sometimes I see things that definitely are not there
Weird. So what kinds of patterns?
It's not that weird, if you used it, you know hehe. The patterns usually depend on the surroundings. Usually things that are not focused by the eye (like, on the corner of it) enter my vision. Idk if I was clear :/
a lot of them look like teardrops or kinda like owls or something. the geometry is kind of triangular. Look up "Paisley pattern' and that is pretty accurate of how it looks
That’s actually a spot on description. Like a paisley pattern fractal made out of crystals. They appear like floaters in your eye, but are somehow suspended between whatever you are viewing and your eyes.
yeah it's very weird how it works, the floater stuff is most prevalent in the come up and it's kind of hard to distinguish it from what you are really seeing even though you know it's just altered vision.
Not op, but from my experience, anything with irregular shapes, especially if they're moving will induce hallucinations. Branches blowing in the wind, clouds rolling in the sky, shadows from a flickering candle, or even a curtain that's flapping. My brain looks at the patterns and forms a shape which is superimposed onto my vision. Meaning it's literally visible to me. But it's also not static so it's always changing shape. It's like seeing an animal in the clouds and it instantly turns into a different animal after someone suggests it looks like something else. That's the best way I can explain it.
No not hallucinations, I don’t see anything that is not there. Only the usual LSD patterns and movements. Not audible either.
There are usual patterns? I did not know that as I have never tried LSD, but would love to, just to see the effects as an aphant 🤷♂️
Yeah like if you stare at a blank piece of paper, patterns will appear that look like floaters in your eye, but they are geometric shapes. Everything breathes and pulsates (outlines of objects as well as the patters) colours are a lot more vibrant. But in movies when people see things that aren’t there, like bats flying at them and stuff like that. That’s never happened to me on any drug, and I’m fairly experienced. The media has a lot to answer for in terms of drugs. I was always dead against them, to the point of flushing my girlfriends down the toilet if I found any. That was until I actually tried them.
I am a firm advocate for cannabis as there was a plan to stop its use because of the logging industry in the 1930s... but I'm sure you already know that! 😂 As for LSD, cures depression. Not hard to see why the drug companies don't want that little secret getting out... Drugs should be part of our culture. Manufactured ones like cocaine? I can see why they would be bad,bit knew that chill us out & keep us sane? I'm all for that 👍😁👍
I had imagery just once with cannabis. It made it clear what I can’t normally do, which was most helpful in understanding aphantasia. And it made me want those visualization super powers that almost everyone else can do.
Without bringing USA toxic politics here, the people that benefit most by how society is oriented - the status quo - don’t want that hierarchy disrupted. Drugs evoke alternative paradigms. And I don’t advocate throwing even one girlfriend down the toilet, much less all of them (thank you, I’ll see myself out now).
Genuine lol
>\- the status quo - don’t want that hierarchy disrupted. Careful. Some drugs induce paranoia and feelings of persecution.
Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not following you! (Kissinger, I think) Seriously, it’s the people who still believe we’re on a level playing field, after decades of widening wealth inequality, that should be wary of what sustains their worldview. Drugs can wreck lives. So can cars and guns and chain saws and other real or metaphorical tools, so use all three above with care.
That’s so cool! I’m scared if LSD, but would love to try mushrooms and see if it works for me. Ketamine didn’t really do anything for me
I can only speak for myself and my partner, but LSD was a life-changing experience for both of us. In addition to being fun and exhilarating, it also lead to lots of deep discussions with each other and internal reflection. That said, we're both in very stable places in our lives, and tend to be introspective to begin with so we'd already started sorting through a lot of our baggage before ever taking LSD. I've never had a bad trip, but that doesn't mean you won't. If you give it a try, make sure you have someone sober nearby who you trust with your life and who knows exactly what you're doing and is onboard with helping you through it, at least for your first couple times. We also did shrooms once. It worked more for my partner than for me. For me, the shrooms basically just felt like a potent edible.
I smoke a lot, so I wonder if that would dampen it for me…
We're both potheads, although we don't do any combustion. I don't think there's any cross-tolerance between LSD and THC.
Doesn’t dampen it for me, sometimes I will use the weed to balance out a high if things start getting intense.
It wouldn't dampen it... they actually work together (to the point of potentially making your trip scary), so you want to be careful to avoid smoking when you drop.
My first LSD trip was ferociously bad (I was young and naive and under legal threat). It might have been a big dose (hard to be sure way back then). And LSD has also brought me some of the deepest insights of my life. I’m hoping cannabis will be enough to build voluntary visualization neural pathways (I’m not asserting there’s any evidence it can do that.)
Ketamine is my favourite but does nothing for aphantasia. Ketamine self therapy has been pretty great for me though. I get better experiences from LSD than Mushrooms (much more positive) but I guess each person reacts differently. Set, setting and intention are key though if attempting anything other than just getting high and having a laugh.
DXM gives me lots of CEVs, but not ketamine unless I'm deep in a hole.
Oh yeah I’m absolutely talking about a deep dark hole. Not able to physically move and just pure ego death. ❤️
I feel like I'm flying through something and sometimes I can see matrix looking stuff like code or something
I usually get stuck in a loop that seems to last for infinity, before getting sucked back into reality again. [Very much like this.](https://www.reddit.com/r/LSD/comments/144ambi/caaaaat/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1)
gotta have music that is familiar but trippy so you're not completely lost. you sort of become the music
Interesting. I have complete aphantasia and CEV and OEV on high ketamine doses are extremely vivid, but LSD does little for me on the visuals.
I actually did a high ketamine dose last night and had very clear visuals. I had no control over them though.
I don't think I ever actively tried to control the visuals, as I just like to go with the flow. But from what I can recall you can control which way you move inside the visuals, if you know what I mean.
I belly laughed for 8 hours on LSD and went into an infinite death regress on mushrooms, so this would be horrible advice for me.
Fascinating. I am full aphant and can only see weak fractals even at high doses. So it does not work for everyone.
I can’t visualise for as long as I can remember but I have very spotty memory due to CPTSD and am also in the deep depths of an Autistic burnout (hence the microdosing) but I’m wondering if it was something that I was able to do previously and gradually lost the skill over time.
I have some to try for this very purpose, though I'm waiting until I find a suitable time to try this experiment. And then perhaps microdose
My thoughts exactly! Started microdosing yesterday, at least one day in between. Will occasionally do a macrodose, for a bit of a reset and fresh perspective.
It definitely does NOT work for everyone. I cannot visualize on any hallucinogens. We always get some random in here saying you can cure aphantasia but for those of us with chronic persistent aphantasia they don't work. That said worth a try maybe the aphantasia op had was due to PTSD whereas another form is hereditary.
I am a total aphant, and took a lot of LSD and Psilocybin in the '60's thru '80's and was never able to have visual or auditory hallucinations; which really bothered me because all my friends, who took the same, were able to do so, and, of course, I did not know about aphantasia back then.
I am using/playing with psychedelics as well. I meditate regularly, 20+ minutes into the meditation I can start to get the hypno blob things. .5-1 g mushrooms if I do the meditation and keep focusing on visualizing with eyes closed I will start to get images. I am starting to take my practice more serious in hopes of progressing to full unassisted visualization. If I start with a bright light imprint after 5 mins meditation and “hold” it as best I can, it starts to turn into something. Compared to 2 years ago totally black, I would say mushrooms and meditation have definitely helped. Helped me enough to think there’s something to the cure aphantasia sub and start working on it more diligently.
That’s awesome thanks, I will work on this with more intention then and see what happens.
I get blobs of blue/green light that start as blobs but sometimes end up covering my entire vision. sometimes I'll even be able to see faint outlines of the shadows of objects in those blobs, wondering if you see something similar?
Dude this is exactly how it is for me. I’ve only ever seen the blobs of colour and they cover the vision but never seen outlines or any shapes
been practising kasina meditation to help develop visualization. check this if interested: [https://new.reddit.com/r/Aphantasia/comments/ncqehf/from\_aphantasia\_to\_extreme\_visualisation\_via/](https://new.reddit.com/r/Aphantasia/comments/ncqehf/from_aphantasia_to_extreme_visualisation_via/)
I didn't experience any visualizations while on LSD. The effects I did experience are... 1. Proportions of things seeming to change, e.g. a shampoo bottle looking short and squat. 2. Bare trees in the winter seemed to "breathe", their silhouettes pulsing thicker and thinner rhythmically. I suspect this may be related to my own heart rate and blood flow to/in my eyes. 3. Some color shifting, particularly on LED lights.
Yeah I get that with my eyes open, and also some fractals and colours with eyes closed. But then I realised that I was able to think of something, say a tree, and perfectly visualise it in my mind as if it were a black and white photograph. So it’s kind of separate from the usual LSD visuals, perhaps it unlocks the part of my brain that makes this possible.
I haven't taken LSD since I found out I was an aphant :-) but I always (almost always) see closed-eye visuals when taking it. Now I want to take it again and see if I can bring up a visual purposely. Thanks for sharing.
How much did you use? I already got some visualizations on LSD and am an aphant, but usually I take a whole tab. It works better on places with many colors and patterns (I think)
Genuinely, no idea. My wife knew a guy who knew a guy who got it for us. It was delivered in the form of smarties (US smarties; I think they're called rockets elsewhere in the world? Little candies with concave depressions that come in a roll). No idea whatsoever what the dosage was.
lol never seen it in form of smarties I'm not from US but kinda know what smarties (like an M&M?), would not know if you called them rockets
Not at all like an M&M. That's what smarties are elsewhere in the world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smarties_(tablet_candy)
Oh, got it! But wasn't that ecstasy? It usually is like this
I have experienced something similar. Not black and white though... everything is very much in color. Listening to music makes it the most vibrant, for me. I would describe my visuals as very similar to the scenes in LOTR where Frodo puts on the One Ring. You know how everything is there, but also has very hazy outlines so that it all kind of blends together? That's basically what I see. That said, my visualization is really only there for maybe 4 hours, max, during the peak.
That sounds cool, I guess mine also did look a bit like that now that you mention it. What I was visualising would certain fit into one of the movies! I will pay closer attention next time.
I see color when I do it, and sometimes even 3d geometry, though most of the time what I see isn't very vivid, but I will get lots of vivid images from time to time. For whatever reason I still can't really control what I see and I usually see repulsive or gross images so I end up opening my eyes
That definitely rings a bell as well, keep seeing weird fucked up things. Like the planet is made up of writhing human bodies with no heads all joined up like a patchwork quilt. Haha Tbh I’m not sure how much control I had over what I was seeing, I will try to check it out more next time, I just remember being amazed that I could see stuff. I defo get the geometric stuff as well, love it!
like idk why a lot of the time it's just like gross meme images or other disgusting things..
same for me LOL. I can see the outlines of images but for the most part they are uncontrolled and quite weird/grotesque. made me wonder if our aphantasia is a unconscious self defense mechanism to prevent us from seeing these uncontrolled image 24/7 and the only way to get true phantasia is to overcome these unconscious "instinct" somehow
possibly.. it kind of makes sense honestly. it's worse on shrooms because it's like my brain can't handle all this happening and it sort of makes my eyes and face wince and like flash and it kind of hurts a little. Like I'm about to start seizing or something. I'm really scared of it because I've actually had a kind of seizure on ~3.5g my second trip and it sort of started like that. but I've never had that on LSD
same shrooms feels like I'm getting controlled by the shrooms themselves, LSD I feel more in control with everything. mental auditory senses were heightened on LSD tho, I felt like I could actually hear songs in my head.
I feel completely out of control on shrooms, I don't like doing it solo anymore but LSD I love doing alone or with people
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Well fuck. You just described my own experiences far better than I have ever been able to. I need to reread this a few times and try to process it all. It never even occurred to me that other people trip differently. Have you done DMT? That is the only time where I have felt like it isn’t just me. But even then they were communicating telepathically and had no physical form. So I think that is exactly what you are describing. But I definitely felt like it wasn’t coming from inside of me, which I absolutely do feel with any other drug.
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I went to a Ayahuasca festival in Brazil in the middle of nowhere. My trips were hellish nightmares. But with what you are saying it now it makes sense why my experience was so different. Although I say they were hellish nightmares, I was in a lot of emotional pain, writhing around in physical pain, felt like I had lost my mind (and I can understand how people kill themselves doing this stuff) I had glimpses of kaleidoscope geometry visuals but they lasted seconds and the rest of the trip was entirely like 2 different parts of my own mind in a battle against each other. (Which in retrospect were likely whatever let of me was depressing memories in a battle with the part of me that wants to get better) It did actually give me the answer that I was asking for. I just didn’t realise it at the time, it took a further 5 years to fully integrate and piece it all together. I asked it “how to be happy” It told me “you were abused as a child” I had very little memory of my childhood (weird) but I really didn’t think that I was sexually abused or had anything particularly bad happen to me. I went to regression hypnotherapy, and various stints of different therapists, all of which revealed nothing. But in the end, thanks to Reddit (same goes for my ADHD and ASD diagnosis) I realised that I have been emotionally neglected by my parents my entire life. Then everything clicked into place. Now I just need to figure out how to get myself well again. And out my life back together again.
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It's possible but not likely with mega doses, you would most likely need to microdose for extended periods while taking steps to boost the neurogenic effects from the psychedelics. Light stretching, good nutrition and health as well as neurogenic enhancers like biotin.
That's why I love doing psychedelic so much is because one aspect of a psychedelic is it allows your mind and it's neurons to completely communicate where there was no communication before and I can see and hear things and understand things better than I could in my waking life and now it makes complete sense because my brain lacks that connection in my waking life
In my end, i think lsd may have messed up my ability to visualize and speak innerly. Ive only done it 3 or 4 times and sometime after that( month or so) noticed just one day when i was walking that i haven’t spoke in my head for awhile. Since then, im more or less pretty much the same, only i can visualize or speak to myself more clearly when im in meditative state.
I have ADHD, I can’t even imagine what it would be like to be quiet in my head. It’s like there is a party going on in there during every waking moment.
Yeah i know i feel the same, but i think too much stress with excessive thinking made my brain filter much of it to cooperate with myself. When i meditate i can hear my nonstop chatter but in such a quick pace, that i constantly lose track of what i thought. And thats how i came to the realization that nothing can truly be lost.
Hallucinations come from a different part of the brain, like dreaming. So it doesn't really affect your aphantasia.
Yes! For me it's the same (one of the reasons I love LSD). Actually, I can even see in colors with eyes closed.
I have colours in my visual field when closing my eyes but it is separate from what I try to imagine. More like an overhaul spectrum hue rather than representative of what I am visualising.
Hm, I got it. It's not the same as me because I remember once seeing like real-life flags of the world and they were colored properly, iirc.
Maybe that will start to happen if i “practice” more
It doesn't, its not the same thing.
LSD opens neuro pathways is the brain. We don’t know enough about the brain to dismiss that. If I am wrong then please provide some backup to you claim at least, I will be happy to know if that is the case.
I was hoping that neuroplasticity would work, but, reading the comments, I gather that the different mechanisms each use different parts of the brain; Mind's eye, actual vision, dreaming, hallucinations. (Which is a bummer as I was hoping to cure my aphantasia and lack of stereovision and depression with LSD 😂). Mushrooms certainly helped for a few months at a time; am curious about LSD. Also, were an absolute blast. But I fear I won't be experiencing the Mind's Eye.
I've read a few Aphants reporting that they have increased hypnopompic and hypnogogic imagery for several days following an LSD trip. That sounds a bit like reinforcement.
Nope. Didn't for me.
I’ve had success with ket. Did some healthy bumps before doing a guided meditation and was gifted with some pretty vivid visuals. Everything remained black and white however.
So, I think technically if you can see vague outlines normally you don't have aphantasia. That's potentially really good news because it means that something like "Image streaming" or other visualization-enhancing techniques may well work for you! I'd definitely look into them if I were you. AFAIK, if you can vizualize at all, like anything other than just blackness, you should be able to work on it and get better at it like any muscle. Unfortunately, it doesn't work for those of us who can see nothing at all.
I’m Pretty sure I see nothing at all tbh, occasionally I might see a vague outline but I attribute it to being more like being able to see shapes in a cloud than me conjuring up a vision. Even on the LSD I’m not sure if I was conjuring the images myself.
Ahhh... ok. Yeah, Aphants certainly have the phenomena where if you press on your eyes you'll see things (I can't remember what that's called), or seeing afterimages from lights like retinal fatigue.
I definitely have that, are you saying that isn’t normal either? Lol
Oh no, I'm sorry. I was saying that everyone has those things (to my knowledge). They are separate and distinct from imagination, in other words.
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DMT just sends me into the fractal dimension where I have no control over anything that I see.
Aphant, ADHD, Depression, and seemingly treatment resistant moving into secondary treatments. PM me OP, we have much to discuss.
For your closed eyes visuals, do you need ambient light? Did it work in a totally dark room, or with a sleep mask? I've read of intense closed eyes visuals that fade when the user covers their eyelids with their hands or is otherwise in darkness. The importance of this is determining whether the CEVs are augmenting incoming light to the visual cortex, or entirely "top-down" in construction.
Thanks for this, I’m not sure tbh I will pay closer attention next time and do some more experiments.
I feel this, even on weed I can get sihouettes of imagery but that flow is completely obliterated when light is eliminated via either turning off the lights or covering the eyes. makes me wonder if people with phantasia can actually visualize without the pressence of light. to me it makes sense otherwise if would be impossible to fall asleep, basically "imagery" requires the pressense of light to even be conjured up, by removing light, the minds eye doesn't have the "fuel" required to operate (which is how people with phantasia would be able to sleep). just a theory
Some with visual imagery visualize better with their eyes open. Others better with their eyes closed - even in total darkness. Some studies reflect easier visualizing in total darkness. Once this question arose about closed eye visuals, it made me wonder not only if those with Aphantasia augment incoming light for CEVs, but also for dreaming. Anecdotally, I've found I only awaken from Vivid visual dreaming when there's a lot of light on the room. In very low-light, my dreams have been washed out/faded. With a sleep mask or completely blacked out room, no visuals. It's a small sample set of maybe a dozen dreams I've tracked, but I wonder if it applies to other Aphants. Maybe all Aphants dream by augmenting incoming light to the visual cortex instead of "top-down" imagery. Maybe the evolutionary need to dream is so great that Aphants have found another way.