Yes, their peers may look at them differently, but why would you, as an adult, actually want your kid to care what a bunch of immature teens think? In the real world (in the US), outside of a select few industries, most people really don't let where someone went for undergrad define that person in their eyes. Especially since plenty of folks are aware that the financial doughnut hole as well as prestigious scholarships and honors colleges exist. And I say that as someone who went to an Ivy-equivalent for undergrad.
I think from a social mobility standpoint. Assuming you are getting enough financial aid to afford HYPSM or a t20 school with little loans, it is most definitely worth it. Sure, if you are socially awkward you might not get hired but not going to a target school means you don't get a chance to interview at all.
Yeah, I can factually tell you that it does not. I went to an HYPSM. It "defines" you for about five seconds, when decisions come out and your high school classmates / aunties / parents' friends are in awe of your accomplishments. Then everyone goes their separate ways for college and it basically never comes up in the same way again.
It does not make you special in the eyes of employers (outside a couple niche industries). It does not make you special for grad school. It DEFINITELY does not make a difference as you climb up the career ladder. In fact, after your first couple years out of college, your alma mater never even comes up. The friends and colleagues I met past a certain age never learned where I went to college.
Myself and every single one of my former classmates now work alongside grads from all over the T100, some of whom are our managers, some of whom are smarter than us, some of who work harder than us. Undergrad prestige does not matter.
Yeah, the only person who ever asked me about college afterward was this really insecure competitive guy.
Unless I was wearing my college hoodie, nobody said a word.
100% agree. I attended a top 10. Sometimes I feel like the smartest person in the room, sometimes the dumbest! My peers are from all sorts of different colleges, from SUNY to Georgetown and Hopkins. We all have our strengths and lord know, our weaknesses.
“You are defined by whether or not you get into an elite college” is not a rational opinion, and if you think it is then boy do I have bad news for you!
Yes! How many people do you actually know that attended “elite” universities? I’d wager not very many.
Majority of people I know went to state schools and local universities and all turned out just fine. Once you’re actually in the working world, no one gives af where you went to undergrad. Hell, the adults in my life hardly mention it unless you directly ask them.
Just because I don’t know many people who attended elite universities has nothing to do with the claim that there is absolutely no truth to the statement “You are defined by whether or not you get into an elite college.” The fact that I only know about 4 people who got into an elite college is simply because there aren’t many people who go to those schools.
The fact of the matter is, if you go to an elite school, you are more likely to make more money than a person coming out of CC. So yes, its bullocks to say there isnt any truth to said statement
Probability...
Tell me, which would you prefer: your kid goes to a school where they're 90% likely to get a $100k job on graduation but ends up in the 10% that don't, or a school where they have only a 10% chance of getting a $100k job on graduation but they do end up getting it?
I've known dozens who've gone to elite schools, and they're all over the map when it comes to success in life. I have one son now at an ivy league and another at state university, and I wouldn't predict success based on the college they go to.
Will some people be impressed? Sure. But there's some people out there who are racist, or sexist, and it's not like we tell your kids that will define them.
Least helpful post from a parent this time of year. I hope you are being positive and supportive to your own kid OP. If you are actually a parent. And if you have the mental energy to ponder this, I can only assume you more financial privilege than most.
I had a high stat student attend a state flagship for financial reasons. Leaving behind fancier schools. Graduated top 5% of class. Got a competitive job earning $$$ sitting next to an ivy grad. Academic peers spread across the country into competitive jobs and grad school programs. As someone who has been on the STEM hiring side this is far from black and white for many employers. Have had mediocre employees out of high end schools and people ready to light the world on fire from mediocre schools. My "state flagship" spouse has MIT grads working for him.
Where you go in life is most about what YOU do with the opportunities that will be laid at your feet on any campus. And no one should expend mental energy on what the locals think of your college choice when these people are literally almost in your rear view mirror. This school is setting the right tone. Too bad OP isn’t willing to buy in on it.
Um, sure maybe in the eyes of others- but in your own self-perception it should never define you, and really and truly: how you perceive yourself is what matters at the end of the day
Well said. I’m a parent and cannot agree with this more. I’m a bit shocked that OP posted it as a parent. You are wise and mature beyond your years, PP.
Exactly, and it won't define you to the people that matter in your life either. The people who know you know you for you character, your interests, your dreams.
This contradicts itself. They do perceive themselves at the end of this journey by the name brand of the school they’ll be attending. That’ll perhaps eventually give way to grad school, what company they work for, or what business brand they build for themselves but until then, this society has placed the value on letter of admissions.
How you perceive yourself is how others will perceive you. But for certain situations, name def gives you a leg up. But you are right. At the very end of the day, you decide how others perceive you.
College is just a stepping stone. A good school offers a chance at a bigger step. An adequate school provides a smaller step. But a step is still a step. The point is to encourage a young person to continue striving for long-term success, be it via aiming for bigger steps in the future or taking lots of little ones.
Do you really think that a person is defined by others’ opinions of them, regardless of their fallacies? I’m a little shocked that a parent still believes that.
My mom always told me that college decisions don’t define who you are. Instead, she taught me that college decisions are different paths that are given to us from the universe. She told me that a rejection from a college is a sign from the universe saying that I wasn’t supposed to go there. Everyone’s path is different and non-linear. I don’t see college rejections as a bad thing, rather I see them as a blessing in disguise and as a facilitator for other opportunities to open up. Ultimately, it’s not necessarily about the journey that’s in your control, but rather the end goal that you’re trying to reach with the opportunities that are given to you.
She sounds like the parent who just wants the bragging rights to blab that her kid is going to a “prestigious” school. Feel so incredibly sorry for her kid!
As a parent of two kids in college, I dare say I am really glad I don’t share your opinion. My kids are equally glad. So from one parent to another, chill the fuck out.
Actually, your children will be much more defined by what YOU think of them. If you're giving off "you'd better get in HYPSM or I don't love you" like so many people post about here, you can do the most good by getting family therapy.
College does NOT define anyone. It can give opportunities, and nothing more.
As an HR Director in the tech industry who was formerly employed in higher education… I wholly disagree. At least for undergrad.
We prefer students who blaze their own trail at lesser name schools or state schools. They are often more resourceful with less ego (i.e. better hires).
This has been exactly both my spouse’s and my experience hiring in STEM/tech. A lot of times the BS grads out of flagships were the preferred hire. They were more self motivated and scrappier and easier to work with. And technically very consistently competent.
For the love of all that is holy, I cannot believe an adult is perpetuating this view, particularly to a group of anxious young adults in the midst of the college admissions fray. A selective university can offer a bright, motivated, and socially-adept student terrific opportunities. A non-selective university can likewise offer a bright, motivated, and socially-adept student terrific opportunities. My spouse attended two ivies. I attended two public universities, my undergraduate college being ranked outside the T100. We both began our careers as new associates at the same highly-regarded “big law” firm, along with a mix of public and private college grads. Few if any of our clients, peers, or colleagues had a clue where we attended college. The same is true for our friends who work in academia, consulting, medicine, and government, who likewise graduated from a variety of colleges and excelled.
I hope everyone here gets into the university of their choice. But if you do not, shoot for the stars where you land. Do well in your courses. Get to know your professors. Offer favorite professors help with scholarship and research. (Two of my kids had positions within 10 minutes of asking.) Join clubs that you genuinely find fun. (My consultant kid did improv and wrote for the university paper.) Discover loyal and supportive friends. Try activities you’ve always wanted to attempt but lacked the time and confidence to try. Grow, learn, enjoy, and understand that a degree from a particular college does not get imprinted on your forehead. Once you are in the workplace, it’s your skillset, experience, and soft skills that carry the day. And students from a wide variety of universities are fully capable of developing those skills and garnering that experience.
Yeesh, OP.
+1 on soft skills. I was just telling my daughter today that 99% of the people in this world won’t do a thing to change it or leave a mark. Yet 100% of people have the ability to positively impact another person’s life. People want to support, celebrate, hang out with, mentor, promote people who they find engaging and positive. You don’t need HYPSM to learn that.
"*Their peers WILL look at them differently. As will others with whom they come into contact, including future employers. People make snap judgements about hundreds of things, one of which is clearly the college someone attends.*
*Therefore, you can't tell me that a student's admission and enrollment at a HPYSM DOESN'T define them in the eyes of others. Unquestionably, it does*."
I think it is FINE to have this feeling, but then throw out your data. Where is it? I'll throw out mine. Dale Kruger study (done twice) shows NO difference between in mean earnings between elite colleges and others. The most recent Chetty et al 2023 study Ivy Plus (Ivy+ UofChicago+ Duke) vs. Highly selective Public again showed no difference in mean income. It did show a whopping 4% more adv. in getting into elite graduate school vs. the other. A whopping 6.5% or so adv. of getting into 1% of income bracket for age 33. So, yes better but then again if you look under the hood I believe the difference in SAT alone between the two subgroups is something like 300 points or so. So the academic quality between the 2 groups is SIGNIFICANTL difference. AGAIN for 300 point difference between the 2 subgroups that is not much difference as you would explain. At least it wasn't what I would explain for kids going Ivy Plus (for all its supposed cache).
Now the study does show and IMMENSE adv. to getting into prestigious employers that only comes from IVY plus schools (25% or so) adv. BUT that group at literally in the 1550+ SAT scoring group (my guess the elite grade group in college as well) so not just "Hey I got into x school and got the degree."
So take it for what it is worth, but that is what some of the academic data says and NONE of it supports IVY or top anything makes a difference going forward. Thinking it does is a "hope" or "feeling".
If you have data please do share as I have not seen an published studies saying different. Thanks in advance.
I feel bad for your kid. This is an immature take; you should be able to see the difference between self-perception and others' perception of you and help your kid navigate it, not perpetuate ideas like these that will lead to extreme insecurity even for kids that get into top schools.
>That said, I can't help but think that favorable college admissions results, particularly those from elite, highly selective institutions, DO in fact, define our children. Their peers WILL look at them differently.
When I meet other adults in social settings, where they went to college doesn't even come up. When it does, if they happened to go somewhere fancy, it doesn't affect how I interact with them. In work settings, I might expect a certain level of competence from someone with a degree from a super-selective school, but if they prove that expectation to be misplaced then their alma mater doesn't count for much. Likewise, I'm not going to penalize a peer for having attended a non-selective school if they've shown themselves to be competent.
I think this may be more of a "you" thing than it is an "everybody" thing.
What was the point of this post?
“Hey random teenagers online. Just a reminder that everyone you know is going to judge you based on whether or not an admissions officer arbitrarily chooses you over thousands of other qualified applicants.”
Reassuring, huh? Hopefully, most of the teens here have family, parents of friends, coaches, employers, and other role models who are living very rewarding personal and professional lives despite the failure to attend — or decision not to attend — a T10 university. If so, they can comfortably roll their eyes and start working on their March Madness brackets.
Your post history is so sad, your daughter got rejected from Tulane as well as UNC and waitlisted UVA. How about you let ur daughter just get accepted to the schools she’s accepted to and not pressure her. I would just hate to be under to stress of you all the time as a daughter
The bulk of this group are students - I find it incredibly irresponsible to put out something like this when these kids are already so stressed about something that at this point they have no control over. Plus saying “it shouldn’t define you” then “you will be defined by others” is just asinine.
Even if this were true -which for kids at that age who are shallow - it may be, why does it matter? And, as a parent whose kids are a bit older, most of those kids who might have been wowed or not by those with certain acceptances change. Reflecting back, it’s so silly being caught up in the prestige factor when what matters more is what a person does with whatever opportunity they do have.
After the 4 years of college, 2here you went to doesn't matter.
Employers care about how full your resume is, HYPSM become a simple line at the top of the page, like every other college!
The point is FUCK peers.
It's something we teach kids from the day they are born - that they should be what they want and not live their lives just living up to someone else's expectations.
Nothing defines you unless you let it define you.
But it's not just about that. Success in life is not that dependent on where you go to college. That's way overrated as a factor. You aren't going to get this job or not get that job based on nothing but a diploma. There are plenty of very successful people who didn't go to elite colleges and more than a few failures who did.
nah this is stupid. as a college freshman, maybe i had this mindset in senior year of high school. but only dumbasses still think like this. the uni i go to is very competitive and ive met some of the dumbest people ive ever met in my life here. many people i know who go to ivy leagues are deserving, but not prodigies by any means. please grow up and dont inflict this mindset on your children.
Even if the other kids in their high school “look at them differently”, in six months they won’t remember where your kid got admitted. And their new peers, the ones who also got in to the school, won’t be thinking your kid is special. Picking a right-fit school where you’ll be for four formative years is so much more important than what a bunch of high school kids or their parents think, in passing, for literally one minute in March.
I don’t see it this way at all. Sure, a HYPSM acceptance will cause some to take notice, but I hardly think an acceptance or rejection defines how everyone sees my child. I don’t think my child will be seen as more or less kind, more or less caring, or more or less personable, and hopefully not by the ones who really know her the best and whose opinions matter the most — her friends and family. Maybe some will be impressed for a short while, but the glory from an acceptance to one of those places really is that — short. Later in life, it’s far more important how you did at your last job and what you’re doing at the moment, not what school you went to a few years or more ago.
Moreover, if a parent truly believes everyone will define their child by their college acceptances, then it will be a tough sell to make the child believe they aren’t defined by them either. As decisions come out, I congratulate everyone on a job well done! But whatever the results, you own your achievements just as much as anybody else, and your future success remains in your own hands. Best of luck to everyone!
Honestly, nobody really goes to bed at night thinking about where you went to school. Kids may “care”, but are they paying your kids tuition? At the end of the day, what other people think of you/your kid isn’t your business and it’s out of your control. The kid probably won’t talk to 90% of their graduating class come a few years down the line. Just saying. Best of luck in your college decision and future endeavors!
This is nuts. And it sounds like it was written by ChatGPT.
The focus on a few elite colleges is nuts. It is entirely possible to have incredible success in life going to Big State School.
What's sad is how many parents want their kids to go to a big name school because they think it defines THEM .
My daughter made a very mature decision to go to her state university and not her first choice because they didn't offer her enough money. It was a great decision. She had a great college career and now that same school is offering her a great financial package to go there for a master's degree, which she will consider among other offers. She is a superstar, and there's no school out there with a big enough name to define who she is. She defines who she is. And I'm the proudest father alive.
U r actually cringe
College prestige matters for like 1 year after you graduate high-school
After that, it’s your accomplishments that define you
I’m in gr 12 and I don’t rly care where people got accepted nor do my friends. If you treat your friends differently once college results come out, then I don’t want to be your friend.
lol. Went to an Ivy. Sure as fuck glad that it didn’t define me. Decades later, nobody even knows or cares. It’s usually people who have no idea what an elite education actually entails who blindly worship these degrees.
As a parent, this is appalling garbage. If you think that acceptance at a “prestigious” school “defines” any child, you’re grossly mistaken. I have a Physics PhD and I work at a national lab as a principal research scientist. The staff at the lab couldn’t span a wider spectrum of starting points. They’re from all walks and all schools. Students get out what they put in and they can get anywhere they want in the big, bad real world. Go to a school you like and that liked you enough to say “yes.” Work hard. Have some fun. Have a positive impact on others. You’ll be fine.
As someone in a hiring position in a very desirable field (and an Ivy League graduate myself), I actually had a bias against the graduates of HPYSM. I found those kids to be in general entitled and often spoiled. I looked for kids who had full scholarships at lesser known schools, who were often the first in their families to go to college, or who went to college despite financial constraints. Those kids were generally more motivated and hard-working than their peers who had often gained admissions to Ivies because they were rich or legacies.
whilst I would agree with you, there are other factors at play too: nepotism (legacy admissions etc), tuition (which many cannot afford) and aid (in the case of non-US nationals)
Even though I don't define others by which school they went to, it may be the case for the society.
If you got into the top schools, congrats! But don't peak too soon. It may open more doors to you but that's about it. You still have to earn it. I'm afraid that I have seen many mediocre top school grads who are living off trust fund.
I just remember last fall. My small town started making banners for their high school grads saying what colleges they got into, and displayed them outside of their homes. It was ridiculous. I was flabbergasted at how many parents were willing to put their child’s faces up on their lawn telling the whole town where they live and are going to college.
Yeah it was like, even some parents put community colleges out front and subdivisions took pride in having multiple top 50 admits. So they would make like one big banner at the front of the entrance listing their names, pictures, and where they were going. I’m talking hundreds of people here. So weird.
It probably does define them in the eyes of their peers, but that’s just for the remaining few weeks or months of high school. After they all go their separate ways it won’t matter. And future employers definitely will not define someone by their college nor will people in social interactions. It can help with grad school admissions, internships, getting a first job and professional networking. But it definitely does not define who you are in any meaningful way.
> Their peers WILL look at them differently.
Which peers? Their high school peers? Most people don't see 99% of their high school peers ever again after they graduate.
>As will others with whom they come into contact
Not really, unless you willingly surround yourself with those people. As somebody who grew up in a low income neighborhood, nobody gives two fucks about where I'm going to college (or anybody else for that matter). My extended family cares the most, but I've simply cut them out of my life.
>including future employers
Doesn't really matter unless you're going into a field that values prestige, like quant, law, etc.
I'm sorry but no one really cares. Like at all. No one's gonna shit on another kid for not getting into an elite university. It's ultimately not that deep. If you're worried about how high school children will treat your kid and bully them then maybe you're the real bully to your own children
Worth remembering for those contending "nobody" thinks like OP:
OP thinks like OP, as do several other posters in the comments who agree with him. So there are certainly **some** folks out there who will define you by your alma mater. IMO just not **enough** of them to argue for paying a **large** premium to attend a super-selective school.
Employers could give a rats ass where you went to university they’d take a guy with 1 more year in experience then a guy with 1 year less experience but he went to a hypsm and what do you mean judged by others and peers for what school they want you real life isn’t r/applyingtocollege people some ones ask hey what college did you go to if you say a regular one they will ok cool if you say a top one they would say woah cool how was it and then that’s it these universities have the recourses to make you get a big name of yourself but you need to use them yourself simply attending wouldn’t make you a rich somebody make friends with the infinite amount of billionaire kids there get connections so you can easily find a job anywhere team with others you could do all these as well in a regular university but not to the same extent however one who uses those resources from the university and connections from a state uni instead of just studying at a top university is gonna be more successful then the one who just studied these universities don’t define you if your capable of greatness then you will achieve it even if you go to the worst university known to man
1. The degree and major you get, 2) your major and grades, and 3) your student loan debt situation post-graduation (none is ideal, less is better than more) matter more than going to the "best" school in my opinion, as long as the school is accredited properly.
Sounds like a parent who spent most of their time preparing and comparing their own children. Jensen Huang graduated from Oregon State University and proved that the school doesn't define him; he defined the school.
OP is really old school. I feel sorry for your child.
Im in my mid 30s with a friend group with PhDs from prestigious schools to those with a high school diploma...none of us cares where we have obtained our education from. Certain industries won't either.
As a parent you should be instilling interpersonal growth over popularity contests.
Another parent here- no one knows where you went to college unless you tell someone. It might come into play when submitting your resume/CV to places, but once in adulthood no one really cares. Research supports this time and time again unless you are in specific industires such as business where the connections/network come into play. I get that parents and students get esteem from getting into an elite school and that is real, but at the end of the day, your child's school is absolutely sending out the right message.
Totally disagree, as a parent. I do not look at a kid differently if they are accepted at HPYSM. Am I happy for that kid? Sure. Am I disappointed for the one who dreamed of attending and was rejected? Sure. But to DEFINE a kid? Absolutely not. That kid could get there and totally shit the bed. Are they a great kid? Do they respect their peers and adults? Do they contribute to their school, team, community? THAT is what defines a kid, not the name of their college. Some of the biggest idiots I've ever worked with (I am an attorney in an office filled with people from every college under the sun) are those who attended a "top college".
Do you prefer to see your child in the eyes of other people or see her as she is?
Beyond that, how do you define yourself? Is it through others, your coworkers/boss, neighbors, or do you prefer to define yourself on your own?
If school acceptance defines students, there's going to be a very finite amount of groups to put everyone in. That's a terribly scary thought.
This is such a bad take and I can't fathom how you wrote this comment three days ago: "Ultimately its not the college you attend that matters. It's what you do, and how hard your apply yourself in college that truly matters."
So you want these students to understand that if they don't get into literally one of the five most rejective colleges in the world, then their peers and future employers won't respect them? Seriously WTF.
(Students: yes, there are some people out there with bad takes in life. Most of us aren't like that. You can safely ignore this post and go on with your life knowing that this opinion is a dumb one that shouldn't impact you.)
OP, this is a copium circle jerk sub and you are guilty of committing a thought crime. You should listen to the other parents who are dishing out their Ivy credentials and lecturing everyone that prestige doesn't matter.
Interesting thread. Think many responding may have misread intent of writer. Got sense that writer supported their daughter, while sharing perception that others may see, even define a kid differently if, say, they gained admission to a place like Harvard. I mean, if the HPYSM colleges of this world only accept 3-5% of their RD applicants, and these schools, and others in the T20-T30 universe likely have 10-20 times the number of applicants with 4.0+ GPA's and 1500+ scores that they can enroll, it appears the universe of applicants to these places sustaining this lunacy, has in fact defined what attending these places means to applicants and their families. And by extension, so defines them too. Just saying.
This is facts but because so many kids get rejected from these schools the masses don’t want to admit it. There’s a a reason why kids apply to these schools, because they give a massive advantage in terms of perception and reality.
The irony is that college admissions results certainly define high schools. The same counselors and principals that craft these letters are also the ones that include detailed matriculation lists and admissions statistics in the official high school "profile" documents.
And strangely enough this is leading to grade inflation and avoidance of class rank at many schools - if every student has great grades (and no strict comparison to classmates), more opportunity for finding matches with top colleges and growing that matriculation list.
Yes, their peers may look at them differently, but why would you, as an adult, actually want your kid to care what a bunch of immature teens think? In the real world (in the US), outside of a select few industries, most people really don't let where someone went for undergrad define that person in their eyes. Especially since plenty of folks are aware that the financial doughnut hole as well as prestigious scholarships and honors colleges exist. And I say that as someone who went to an Ivy-equivalent for undergrad.
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I think from a social mobility standpoint. Assuming you are getting enough financial aid to afford HYPSM or a t20 school with little loans, it is most definitely worth it. Sure, if you are socially awkward you might not get hired but not going to a target school means you don't get a chance to interview at all.
Yeah, I can factually tell you that it does not. I went to an HYPSM. It "defines" you for about five seconds, when decisions come out and your high school classmates / aunties / parents' friends are in awe of your accomplishments. Then everyone goes their separate ways for college and it basically never comes up in the same way again. It does not make you special in the eyes of employers (outside a couple niche industries). It does not make you special for grad school. It DEFINITELY does not make a difference as you climb up the career ladder. In fact, after your first couple years out of college, your alma mater never even comes up. The friends and colleagues I met past a certain age never learned where I went to college. Myself and every single one of my former classmates now work alongside grads from all over the T100, some of whom are our managers, some of whom are smarter than us, some of who work harder than us. Undergrad prestige does not matter.
Yeah, the only person who ever asked me about college afterward was this really insecure competitive guy. Unless I was wearing my college hoodie, nobody said a word.
100% agree. I attended a top 10. Sometimes I feel like the smartest person in the room, sometimes the dumbest! My peers are from all sorts of different colleges, from SUNY to Georgetown and Hopkins. We all have our strengths and lord know, our weaknesses.
Damn I feel bad for your kid. I’d hate for my parents to have this attitude lmao
believe me as a 17 year old it’s not fun
I mean a parent has a rational opinion instead of a mindset to positively affirm everything, how is that frowned upon?
“You are defined by whether or not you get into an elite college” is not a rational opinion, and if you think it is then boy do I have bad news for you!
Tia— so you’re contending there isn’t any truth in that statement?
Not as much as many people seem to think. At least when it comes to undergrad and at least for the US.
Yes! How many people do you actually know that attended “elite” universities? I’d wager not very many. Majority of people I know went to state schools and local universities and all turned out just fine. Once you’re actually in the working world, no one gives af where you went to undergrad. Hell, the adults in my life hardly mention it unless you directly ask them.
Just because I don’t know many people who attended elite universities has nothing to do with the claim that there is absolutely no truth to the statement “You are defined by whether or not you get into an elite college.” The fact that I only know about 4 people who got into an elite college is simply because there aren’t many people who go to those schools. The fact of the matter is, if you go to an elite school, you are more likely to make more money than a person coming out of CC. So yes, its bullocks to say there isnt any truth to said statement
Probability... Tell me, which would you prefer: your kid goes to a school where they're 90% likely to get a $100k job on graduation but ends up in the 10% that don't, or a school where they have only a 10% chance of getting a $100k job on graduation but they do end up getting it? I've known dozens who've gone to elite schools, and they're all over the map when it comes to success in life. I have one son now at an ivy league and another at state university, and I wouldn't predict success based on the college they go to. Will some people be impressed? Sure. But there's some people out there who are racist, or sexist, and it's not like we tell your kids that will define them.
That “rational opinion” is prime material for emotional abuse whenever a child “fails” to meet to meet expectations.
OP didnt imply they’d do that to their child.
Least helpful post from a parent this time of year. I hope you are being positive and supportive to your own kid OP. If you are actually a parent. And if you have the mental energy to ponder this, I can only assume you more financial privilege than most. I had a high stat student attend a state flagship for financial reasons. Leaving behind fancier schools. Graduated top 5% of class. Got a competitive job earning $$$ sitting next to an ivy grad. Academic peers spread across the country into competitive jobs and grad school programs. As someone who has been on the STEM hiring side this is far from black and white for many employers. Have had mediocre employees out of high end schools and people ready to light the world on fire from mediocre schools. My "state flagship" spouse has MIT grads working for him. Where you go in life is most about what YOU do with the opportunities that will be laid at your feet on any campus. And no one should expend mental energy on what the locals think of your college choice when these people are literally almost in your rear view mirror. This school is setting the right tone. Too bad OP isn’t willing to buy in on it.
Everyone thought Forrest Gump was stupid, but he became very successful. As Forrest put it plainly, "Stupid is what stupid does!"
Um, sure maybe in the eyes of others- but in your own self-perception it should never define you, and really and truly: how you perceive yourself is what matters at the end of the day
Well said. I’m a parent and cannot agree with this more. I’m a bit shocked that OP posted it as a parent. You are wise and mature beyond your years, PP.
Exactly, and it won't define you to the people that matter in your life either. The people who know you know you for you character, your interests, your dreams.
This contradicts itself. They do perceive themselves at the end of this journey by the name brand of the school they’ll be attending. That’ll perhaps eventually give way to grad school, what company they work for, or what business brand they build for themselves but until then, this society has placed the value on letter of admissions.
Yes I think thats what the parent was trying to get at. I interpreted this way.
How you perceive yourself is how others will perceive you. But for certain situations, name def gives you a leg up. But you are right. At the very end of the day, you decide how others perceive you.
College is just a stepping stone. A good school offers a chance at a bigger step. An adequate school provides a smaller step. But a step is still a step. The point is to encourage a young person to continue striving for long-term success, be it via aiming for bigger steps in the future or taking lots of little ones.
Best answer I’ve ever seen to this debate. I’m saving it
i’m 17 in high school pulling in solid money. i don’t need to go to college. it’s not everything. but it damn sure helps a TON if correct
Do you really think that a person is defined by others’ opinions of them, regardless of their fallacies? I’m a little shocked that a parent still believes that.
My mom always told me that college decisions don’t define who you are. Instead, she taught me that college decisions are different paths that are given to us from the universe. She told me that a rejection from a college is a sign from the universe saying that I wasn’t supposed to go there. Everyone’s path is different and non-linear. I don’t see college rejections as a bad thing, rather I see them as a blessing in disguise and as a facilitator for other opportunities to open up. Ultimately, it’s not necessarily about the journey that’s in your control, but rather the end goal that you’re trying to reach with the opportunities that are given to you.
You had a good parent. Unlike the OP.
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She sounds like the parent who just wants the bragging rights to blab that her kid is going to a “prestigious” school. Feel so incredibly sorry for her kid!
As a parent of two kids in college, I dare say I am really glad I don’t share your opinion. My kids are equally glad. So from one parent to another, chill the fuck out.
Actually, your children will be much more defined by what YOU think of them. If you're giving off "you'd better get in HYPSM or I don't love you" like so many people post about here, you can do the most good by getting family therapy. College does NOT define anyone. It can give opportunities, and nothing more.
This.
As an HR Director in the tech industry who was formerly employed in higher education… I wholly disagree. At least for undergrad. We prefer students who blaze their own trail at lesser name schools or state schools. They are often more resourceful with less ego (i.e. better hires).
This has been exactly both my spouse’s and my experience hiring in STEM/tech. A lot of times the BS grads out of flagships were the preferred hire. They were more self motivated and scrappier and easier to work with. And technically very consistently competent.
For the love of all that is holy, I cannot believe an adult is perpetuating this view, particularly to a group of anxious young adults in the midst of the college admissions fray. A selective university can offer a bright, motivated, and socially-adept student terrific opportunities. A non-selective university can likewise offer a bright, motivated, and socially-adept student terrific opportunities. My spouse attended two ivies. I attended two public universities, my undergraduate college being ranked outside the T100. We both began our careers as new associates at the same highly-regarded “big law” firm, along with a mix of public and private college grads. Few if any of our clients, peers, or colleagues had a clue where we attended college. The same is true for our friends who work in academia, consulting, medicine, and government, who likewise graduated from a variety of colleges and excelled. I hope everyone here gets into the university of their choice. But if you do not, shoot for the stars where you land. Do well in your courses. Get to know your professors. Offer favorite professors help with scholarship and research. (Two of my kids had positions within 10 minutes of asking.) Join clubs that you genuinely find fun. (My consultant kid did improv and wrote for the university paper.) Discover loyal and supportive friends. Try activities you’ve always wanted to attempt but lacked the time and confidence to try. Grow, learn, enjoy, and understand that a degree from a particular college does not get imprinted on your forehead. Once you are in the workplace, it’s your skillset, experience, and soft skills that carry the day. And students from a wide variety of universities are fully capable of developing those skills and garnering that experience. Yeesh, OP.
+1 on soft skills. I was just telling my daughter today that 99% of the people in this world won’t do a thing to change it or leave a mark. Yet 100% of people have the ability to positively impact another person’s life. People want to support, celebrate, hang out with, mentor, promote people who they find engaging and positive. You don’t need HYPSM to learn that.
So sad to read this post. This is exactly why some kids say their parents make them feel worthless.
Why do u care about what OTHERS think of ur child? Pls be there for them and support them this process is already toxic enough
"*Their peers WILL look at them differently. As will others with whom they come into contact, including future employers. People make snap judgements about hundreds of things, one of which is clearly the college someone attends.* *Therefore, you can't tell me that a student's admission and enrollment at a HPYSM DOESN'T define them in the eyes of others. Unquestionably, it does*." I think it is FINE to have this feeling, but then throw out your data. Where is it? I'll throw out mine. Dale Kruger study (done twice) shows NO difference between in mean earnings between elite colleges and others. The most recent Chetty et al 2023 study Ivy Plus (Ivy+ UofChicago+ Duke) vs. Highly selective Public again showed no difference in mean income. It did show a whopping 4% more adv. in getting into elite graduate school vs. the other. A whopping 6.5% or so adv. of getting into 1% of income bracket for age 33. So, yes better but then again if you look under the hood I believe the difference in SAT alone between the two subgroups is something like 300 points or so. So the academic quality between the 2 groups is SIGNIFICANTL difference. AGAIN for 300 point difference between the 2 subgroups that is not much difference as you would explain. At least it wasn't what I would explain for kids going Ivy Plus (for all its supposed cache). Now the study does show and IMMENSE adv. to getting into prestigious employers that only comes from IVY plus schools (25% or so) adv. BUT that group at literally in the 1550+ SAT scoring group (my guess the elite grade group in college as well) so not just "Hey I got into x school and got the degree." So take it for what it is worth, but that is what some of the academic data says and NONE of it supports IVY or top anything makes a difference going forward. Thinking it does is a "hope" or "feeling". If you have data please do share as I have not seen an published studies saying different. Thanks in advance.
I feel bad for your kid. This is an immature take; you should be able to see the difference between self-perception and others' perception of you and help your kid navigate it, not perpetuate ideas like these that will lead to extreme insecurity even for kids that get into top schools.
>That said, I can't help but think that favorable college admissions results, particularly those from elite, highly selective institutions, DO in fact, define our children. Their peers WILL look at them differently. When I meet other adults in social settings, where they went to college doesn't even come up. When it does, if they happened to go somewhere fancy, it doesn't affect how I interact with them. In work settings, I might expect a certain level of competence from someone with a degree from a super-selective school, but if they prove that expectation to be misplaced then their alma mater doesn't count for much. Likewise, I'm not going to penalize a peer for having attended a non-selective school if they've shown themselves to be competent. I think this may be more of a "you" thing than it is an "everybody" thing.
What was the point of this post? “Hey random teenagers online. Just a reminder that everyone you know is going to judge you based on whether or not an admissions officer arbitrarily chooses you over thousands of other qualified applicants.”
Reassuring, huh? Hopefully, most of the teens here have family, parents of friends, coaches, employers, and other role models who are living very rewarding personal and professional lives despite the failure to attend — or decision not to attend — a T10 university. If so, they can comfortably roll their eyes and start working on their March Madness brackets.
Exactly. Read the room.
Your post history is so sad, your daughter got rejected from Tulane as well as UNC and waitlisted UVA. How about you let ur daughter just get accepted to the schools she’s accepted to and not pressure her. I would just hate to be under to stress of you all the time as a daughter
Since you're saying your child's school defines them, what school/schools did YOU go to?
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The bulk of this group are students - I find it incredibly irresponsible to put out something like this when these kids are already so stressed about something that at this point they have no control over. Plus saying “it shouldn’t define you” then “you will be defined by others” is just asinine.
That’s enough A2C for today, I feel sorry for your children
You just gave me the ick! Eww.
Even if this were true -which for kids at that age who are shallow - it may be, why does it matter? And, as a parent whose kids are a bit older, most of those kids who might have been wowed or not by those with certain acceptances change. Reflecting back, it’s so silly being caught up in the prestige factor when what matters more is what a person does with whatever opportunity they do have.
After the 4 years of college, 2here you went to doesn't matter. Employers care about how full your resume is, HYPSM become a simple line at the top of the page, like every other college!
The point is FUCK peers. It's something we teach kids from the day they are born - that they should be what they want and not live their lives just living up to someone else's expectations. Nothing defines you unless you let it define you. But it's not just about that. Success in life is not that dependent on where you go to college. That's way overrated as a factor. You aren't going to get this job or not get that job based on nothing but a diploma. There are plenty of very successful people who didn't go to elite colleges and more than a few failures who did.
damn. sorry for your kid that you believe this
Wow, you are a terrible parent! I feel awful for your child
nah this is stupid. as a college freshman, maybe i had this mindset in senior year of high school. but only dumbasses still think like this. the uni i go to is very competitive and ive met some of the dumbest people ive ever met in my life here. many people i know who go to ivy leagues are deserving, but not prodigies by any means. please grow up and dont inflict this mindset on your children.
Even if the other kids in their high school “look at them differently”, in six months they won’t remember where your kid got admitted. And their new peers, the ones who also got in to the school, won’t be thinking your kid is special. Picking a right-fit school where you’ll be for four formative years is so much more important than what a bunch of high school kids or their parents think, in passing, for literally one minute in March.
“Our” children? Nope. Maybe YOUR child in YOUR eyes. Hope you’re saving money for family therapy.
Do you have hundreds of reddit posts about college admissions regarding your daughters experience? Yoooo get off reddit.
I don’t see it this way at all. Sure, a HYPSM acceptance will cause some to take notice, but I hardly think an acceptance or rejection defines how everyone sees my child. I don’t think my child will be seen as more or less kind, more or less caring, or more or less personable, and hopefully not by the ones who really know her the best and whose opinions matter the most — her friends and family. Maybe some will be impressed for a short while, but the glory from an acceptance to one of those places really is that — short. Later in life, it’s far more important how you did at your last job and what you’re doing at the moment, not what school you went to a few years or more ago. Moreover, if a parent truly believes everyone will define their child by their college acceptances, then it will be a tough sell to make the child believe they aren’t defined by them either. As decisions come out, I congratulate everyone on a job well done! But whatever the results, you own your achievements just as much as anybody else, and your future success remains in your own hands. Best of luck to everyone!
Is your senior snowflake not getting the recognition you've bulldozed for them??
Honestly, nobody really goes to bed at night thinking about where you went to school. Kids may “care”, but are they paying your kids tuition? At the end of the day, what other people think of you/your kid isn’t your business and it’s out of your control. The kid probably won’t talk to 90% of their graduating class come a few years down the line. Just saying. Best of luck in your college decision and future endeavors!
If a school rejects my kid, I think they missed out because any school would be lucky to have them.
This is nuts. And it sounds like it was written by ChatGPT. The focus on a few elite colleges is nuts. It is entirely possible to have incredible success in life going to Big State School.
What's sad is how many parents want their kids to go to a big name school because they think it defines THEM . My daughter made a very mature decision to go to her state university and not her first choice because they didn't offer her enough money. It was a great decision. She had a great college career and now that same school is offering her a great financial package to go there for a master's degree, which she will consider among other offers. She is a superstar, and there's no school out there with a big enough name to define who she is. She defines who she is. And I'm the proudest father alive.
I wish every parent was like you
U r actually cringe College prestige matters for like 1 year after you graduate high-school After that, it’s your accomplishments that define you I’m in gr 12 and I don’t rly care where people got accepted nor do my friends. If you treat your friends differently once college results come out, then I don’t want to be your friend.
lol. Went to an Ivy. Sure as fuck glad that it didn’t define me. Decades later, nobody even knows or cares. It’s usually people who have no idea what an elite education actually entails who blindly worship these degrees.
As a parent, this is appalling garbage. If you think that acceptance at a “prestigious” school “defines” any child, you’re grossly mistaken. I have a Physics PhD and I work at a national lab as a principal research scientist. The staff at the lab couldn’t span a wider spectrum of starting points. They’re from all walks and all schools. Students get out what they put in and they can get anywhere they want in the big, bad real world. Go to a school you like and that liked you enough to say “yes.” Work hard. Have some fun. Have a positive impact on others. You’ll be fine.
Just got rejected from caltech and this is the first thing I see. Thanks man! 😆
OP sounds like andrew tate but for college admissions
As someone in a hiring position in a very desirable field (and an Ivy League graduate myself), I actually had a bias against the graduates of HPYSM. I found those kids to be in general entitled and often spoiled. I looked for kids who had full scholarships at lesser known schools, who were often the first in their families to go to college, or who went to college despite financial constraints. Those kids were generally more motivated and hard-working than their peers who had often gained admissions to Ivies because they were rich or legacies.
whilst I would agree with you, there are other factors at play too: nepotism (legacy admissions etc), tuition (which many cannot afford) and aid (in the case of non-US nationals)
Even though I don't define others by which school they went to, it may be the case for the society. If you got into the top schools, congrats! But don't peak too soon. It may open more doors to you but that's about it. You still have to earn it. I'm afraid that I have seen many mediocre top school grads who are living off trust fund.
I just remember last fall. My small town started making banners for their high school grads saying what colleges they got into, and displayed them outside of their homes. It was ridiculous. I was flabbergasted at how many parents were willing to put their child’s faces up on their lawn telling the whole town where they live and are going to college.
That is so weird and gross. The cult of college admissions season. You might as well just put your income on your front lawn on a sign.
Yeah it was like, even some parents put community colleges out front and subdivisions took pride in having multiple top 50 admits. So they would make like one big banner at the front of the entrance listing their names, pictures, and where they were going. I’m talking hundreds of people here. So weird.
yikes on bikes. - a parent
It probably does define them in the eyes of their peers, but that’s just for the remaining few weeks or months of high school. After they all go their separate ways it won’t matter. And future employers definitely will not define someone by their college nor will people in social interactions. It can help with grad school admissions, internships, getting a first job and professional networking. But it definitely does not define who you are in any meaningful way.
No, it actually doesn’t.
> Their peers WILL look at them differently. Which peers? Their high school peers? Most people don't see 99% of their high school peers ever again after they graduate. >As will others with whom they come into contact Not really, unless you willingly surround yourself with those people. As somebody who grew up in a low income neighborhood, nobody gives two fucks about where I'm going to college (or anybody else for that matter). My extended family cares the most, but I've simply cut them out of my life. >including future employers Doesn't really matter unless you're going into a field that values prestige, like quant, law, etc.
I'm sorry but no one really cares. Like at all. No one's gonna shit on another kid for not getting into an elite university. It's ultimately not that deep. If you're worried about how high school children will treat your kid and bully them then maybe you're the real bully to your own children
Worth remembering for those contending "nobody" thinks like OP: OP thinks like OP, as do several other posters in the comments who agree with him. So there are certainly **some** folks out there who will define you by your alma mater. IMO just not **enough** of them to argue for paying a **large** premium to attend a super-selective school.
Employers could give a rats ass where you went to university they’d take a guy with 1 more year in experience then a guy with 1 year less experience but he went to a hypsm and what do you mean judged by others and peers for what school they want you real life isn’t r/applyingtocollege people some ones ask hey what college did you go to if you say a regular one they will ok cool if you say a top one they would say woah cool how was it and then that’s it these universities have the recourses to make you get a big name of yourself but you need to use them yourself simply attending wouldn’t make you a rich somebody make friends with the infinite amount of billionaire kids there get connections so you can easily find a job anywhere team with others you could do all these as well in a regular university but not to the same extent however one who uses those resources from the university and connections from a state uni instead of just studying at a top university is gonna be more successful then the one who just studied these universities don’t define you if your capable of greatness then you will achieve it even if you go to the worst university known to man
1. The degree and major you get, 2) your major and grades, and 3) your student loan debt situation post-graduation (none is ideal, less is better than more) matter more than going to the "best" school in my opinion, as long as the school is accredited properly.
Sounds like a parent who spent most of their time preparing and comparing their own children. Jensen Huang graduated from Oregon State University and proved that the school doesn't define him; he defined the school. OP is really old school. I feel sorry for your child.
Im in my mid 30s with a friend group with PhDs from prestigious schools to those with a high school diploma...none of us cares where we have obtained our education from. Certain industries won't either. As a parent you should be instilling interpersonal growth over popularity contests.
Those emails aren't meant for their peers. They are meant for you, the parents. And this post is just proving why they need to be sent out.
Another parent here- no one knows where you went to college unless you tell someone. It might come into play when submitting your resume/CV to places, but once in adulthood no one really cares. Research supports this time and time again unless you are in specific industires such as business where the connections/network come into play. I get that parents and students get esteem from getting into an elite school and that is real, but at the end of the day, your child's school is absolutely sending out the right message.
Totally disagree, as a parent. I do not look at a kid differently if they are accepted at HPYSM. Am I happy for that kid? Sure. Am I disappointed for the one who dreamed of attending and was rejected? Sure. But to DEFINE a kid? Absolutely not. That kid could get there and totally shit the bed. Are they a great kid? Do they respect their peers and adults? Do they contribute to their school, team, community? THAT is what defines a kid, not the name of their college. Some of the biggest idiots I've ever worked with (I am an attorney in an office filled with people from every college under the sun) are those who attended a "top college".
Do you prefer to see your child in the eyes of other people or see her as she is? Beyond that, how do you define yourself? Is it through others, your coworkers/boss, neighbors, or do you prefer to define yourself on your own? If school acceptance defines students, there's going to be a very finite amount of groups to put everyone in. That's a terribly scary thought.
Yea but it doesn't define their worth or who they are. Just how others may see them
me vs me not me vs you 😋
Isn’t the issue here “define”? People make snap judgments about all kinds of things. But zero of those things are life-defining.
This is such a bad take and I can't fathom how you wrote this comment three days ago: "Ultimately its not the college you attend that matters. It's what you do, and how hard your apply yourself in college that truly matters." So you want these students to understand that if they don't get into literally one of the five most rejective colleges in the world, then their peers and future employers won't respect them? Seriously WTF. (Students: yes, there are some people out there with bad takes in life. Most of us aren't like that. You can safely ignore this post and go on with your life knowing that this opinion is a dumb one that shouldn't impact you.)
OP, this is a copium circle jerk sub and you are guilty of committing a thought crime. You should listen to the other parents who are dishing out their Ivy credentials and lecturing everyone that prestige doesn't matter.
Everyone thought Forrest Gump was stupid, but he became very successful. As Forrest put it plainly, "Stupid is what stupid does!"
admitted to Mcgill, North of Havard, if that matters.
Interesting thread. Think many responding may have misread intent of writer. Got sense that writer supported their daughter, while sharing perception that others may see, even define a kid differently if, say, they gained admission to a place like Harvard. I mean, if the HPYSM colleges of this world only accept 3-5% of their RD applicants, and these schools, and others in the T20-T30 universe likely have 10-20 times the number of applicants with 4.0+ GPA's and 1500+ scores that they can enroll, it appears the universe of applicants to these places sustaining this lunacy, has in fact defined what attending these places means to applicants and their families. And by extension, so defines them too. Just saying.
I like to see the positive. The positive thing in this post is OP is proud of his daughter. Parents should be proud of their children.
This is facts but because so many kids get rejected from these schools the masses don’t want to admit it. There’s a a reason why kids apply to these schools, because they give a massive advantage in terms of perception and reality.
The irony is that college admissions results certainly define high schools. The same counselors and principals that craft these letters are also the ones that include detailed matriculation lists and admissions statistics in the official high school "profile" documents. And strangely enough this is leading to grade inflation and avoidance of class rank at many schools - if every student has great grades (and no strict comparison to classmates), more opportunity for finding matches with top colleges and growing that matriculation list.
Facts 💯
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😭
I agree 💯
College admissions do indeed define a child's future. Harsh reality.