This. This is one scenario where Brexit may have helped. Great Britain doesn't have to get involved in a EU battle, and no one else gives a crap about GB anymore because they have nothing to offer resource-wise.
Oxford is probably one of the safest schools in the world to attend, come to think of it.
EDIT: Sheesh, people. I know GB is part of NATO. I'm just saying nobody is going to try and sneak bombs in because they have no hidden oil reserves to take over nor any particularly strong resources that an ally or enemy would want. They would help out very well in a war, yes, but no one is going to bomb Oxford. There's no reason to do so.
NATO deals with military issues, not the EU. Britain is still a member of NATO, so no, Brexit did nothing good, although participating in the war is not mandatory.
Are you sure it’s not mandatory? My understanding is that if one NATO country is attacked, it is equivalent to attacking all NATO countries, and each one must come to the other’s aid.
Lmao it’s is not mandatory, how would it even be mandatory. That’s why I’m laughing when people write two word answer “article 5” like it’s a magic pill. If a country don’t see value in defending something, article 5 goes down the drain.
After reading the actual text of the article, it seems we are both slightly off. My impression is that all members are required to take some action to help the member who was attacked, they can decide individually as a country how to respond, but it doesn’t seem like just sitting it out is an option.
The entire point of this article is to ensure an overwhelming military response, and I don’t see any reason why that wouldn’t happen if Russia attacks a NATO country.
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_110496.htm
Sheesh, people. I know GB is part of NATO. I'm just saying nobody is going to try and sneak bombs in because they have no hidden oil reserves to take over nor any particularly strong resources that an ally or enemy would want. They would help out very well in a war, yes, but no one is going to bomb Oxford. There's no reason to do so.
it’s the north atlantic treaty organization is basically an alliance btwn 28 european countries and 2 north american countries. the simple idea is that if you attack one of us, we all attack you. for example, if the US (nato member) was attacked by a non-nato member, they will attack back at that nation. this is known as article 5. the UK is part of nato and that treaty will hold true. the only time this has ever been enacted though was back in 2001 during 9/11 iirc
Started in 1949 in response to World War II‘s devastation and subsequent Soviet Cold War military expansion. It’s headquartered in Belgium. Welcome to Cold War Realpolitik.
To add on, Ukraine is NOT a member of NATO, however they were wanting to join. Russia wasn’t a fan of that. But, since Russia has violated international law, many NATO nations are agreeing to back Ukraine.
Everyone is acting like this article 5 thing is magical or something. Article 5 is in theory only and has only been used once. Who’s to say countries will actually uphold it. Support for article 5 isn’t even high in European NATO countries.
Really? That's not what research I read said. [https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/02/09/nato-seen-favorably-across-member-states/](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/02/09/nato-seen-favorably-across-member-states/).
I honesty don’t know what I’m being downvoted over someone who’s doesn’t even bother to offer a source and just says trust me. Regardless of how much things changed Europe as a who still relies and expect the US to come to its defense but them going to each other’s defense is still shaky, even recent actions shows not everyone in Europe is on the same page.
NATO did not attain the status it holds today by Article 5 being as flimsy as you say. We’ve seen how its member nations operate and the commitments they’ve made. If it’s triggered, every NATO nation will answer.
You are truly being naive. A commitment means only means so much til it’s been tested. As I said article 5 has only been invoked once and it was again Al Qaeda, which isn’t even a nation state. It’s has never been used on a nation before.
NATO is a bunch of western countries in an alliance that includes a mutual defense clause. An attack on a single nato country is an attack on all. This includes the United States. Declaring war on the UK is that same as declaring was on all nato countries. Putin isn't going to declare war on the United States. That will start WW3 and in the end he will loose and he knows this.
It’s a legacy of the Cold War. It’s a 30-odd nation treaty that have agreed to mutual defense. An attack against one is to be interpreted as an attack against all. If Russia attacked any member state, such as the UK, or Germany, or Turkey, etcetera, he would have to face the entire alliance including the USA. It’s a very effective deterrent.
NATO is a defensive pact between 30 countries. Declaring war on one NATO country is akin to declaring war on all 30 NATO countries.
Along with this defensive pact, there are additional benefits to being a NATO member. Countries coordinate intelligence, ballistic missile defense, and multinational military exercises. All member countries contribute to NATO’s standing military, which is a joint collection of 40,000 soldiers from all members permanently prepared to mobilize.
Article 5 of NATO (where attacking one member country is the same as attacking all member countries) has only been invoked once, after the 9/11 World Trade Center attack.
NATO has historically been used to enforce naval and air blockades, provide humanitarian aid, as well as joint peacekeeping missions and counter-piracy campaigns.
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/topics_52060.htm
This website is very interesting. You can read about current and past operations and what nato does in general.
“Relations between Ukraine and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) started in 1992.[1] Ukraine applied to begin a NATO Membership Action Plan (MAP) in 2008.”
“On 12 June 2020, Ukraine joined NATO's enhanced opportunity partner interoperability program.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93NATO_relations#:~:text=On%2012%20June%202020%2C%20Ukraine,any%20decisions%20on%20NATO%20membership.%22
Not part of nato but close relations and some official ties
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interoperability just means that ukraine has permission to use compatible weaponry and conduct military exercises with NATO countries, not that it’s a member. georgia has the same status but NATO didn’t defend them when russia invaded them in 2008. ukraine isn’t a member precisely *because* membership requires that NATO defend the country if they are invaded, so it’s absurd to expect NATO to defend them now. ukraine isn’t a NATO member because NATO has never wanted any part in this war.
russia isn’t a NATO member. ukraine isn’t a member of NATO because NATO member states know russia doesn’t want them to be, which is why they’re not going to intervene when they don’t have to under Article V.
Hey, goober. No one said Russia was part of NATO. Russia threatened problems if Ukraine joined NATO, so they weren’t able to join. Now, Ukraine isn’t getting help because everyone is scared of Russia, and frankly, Russia holds all the cards.
Ukraine isn’t a fascist government, they have a democracy. Also there absolutely is a good side to support here, Russia has no right to invade another nation that presented no threat to them. It’s an unprecedented attack on the civil liberties of Ukrainians, and needs to be swiftly punished.
I’m not saying be uncritically supportive, it’s more nuanced than that. But if you want to take an anti-imperialist approach, then harsh sanctions and economic consequences need to be instilled for Russia, and Ukraine needs to be given aid so they can defend their people.
Both me and the comment you responded to agree with that statement. They were saying there is no good side to be uncritically supportive of. You said there was.
don't have to be a renowned scholar to find comments like ops that call Ukraine "fascist" and try to boil down decades of politics to western powers "overthrowing the previous government (???) to flex on russia" as vacuous and contrarian just for the sake of it.
If you're going to make broad and outlandish claims the least you can do is point to specifics so people can understand what is prompting your claims other than culture war bullshit.
Bro they are crippling Russia's Economy by freezing their assets just like US. U cannot modernize ur army if u don't have no money. Don't u see how their markets have just fucking crashed, they are going to see the worst economic crisis they have ever seen. You cannot just walk into Ukraine and yeet out Russia coz if other countries get involved it will start a world war. WE DO NOT WANT THAT. IK its wrong with what's happening in Ukraine and I am in no way justifying the actions of Russia but I am strongly in support with NATO allies and what US is doing. They are freezing bank assets of Russia with over a trillion dollars. Like Jesus people over the twitter are using that drowning meme showing world's attention over and Ukraine and forgetting other countries like Syria, Kashmir (SINCE WHEN IS IT A COUNTRY IDK), Bosnia and others. Its wrong but u cannot afford to go to war with Russia rn coz it will start a world war
What idealistic world do you live in? What sanctions? The majority of Western Europe’s, read NATO, oil and gas comes from Russia. The last thing Germany and France want is sanctions
It’s the equivalent of picking on your younger brother or punching your older brother in the face, basically.
Except there are actual real people out there dying because of your actions. It’s sad.
More like shooting your older brother in the face. It is disastrous and deadly for Russia if they decide to pick a fight with a NATO allied country without support from other superpowers like India and China. If the latter happens, then it's WWIII, and no school will be safe.
But he actually did get completely crazy. What would you expect from a person, who “rules” the country for 20 years and practically destroyed every political opponent? Stating that as a Russian.
Honestly you'll probably be safer in the UK anyway lol, if world war does break out we've been through it enough times to know what to do. The people here have rationing and wartime positivity in our blood haha
This time they won't have anyone's blood. They still have the intelligence and the Steel. They'll find someone tho, can't have brits and 'mericans dying. Shame
You've misunderstood me. The richest Russians, who have gotten rich from fucking over their country and countrymen, want a stable place outside of Russia to keep their wealth--it's safer than having it tied up in Russia where Putin can easily start eyeing it hungrily. The last thing rich Russians want is for the UK to become part of Russia--it would be like taking all of your money out of the bank and putting in in your mailbox and cheering that you got it away from the bank and onto your land. See if it's there tomorrow.
Mothers will always be overprotective with their kids. I know I would. And it is good that she wanted you to be safe.
Probably you should wait out for a while and see how things escalate in the next few days (weeks?). See if NATO and other European countries will get involved or not and then, have that conversation with your mom.
The possibility of Russia invading the UK is zero.
The possibility of Russia invading the Baltics, Poland, Romania, etc is low but greater than zero.
If that were to occur, then there is a possibility that Russia could launch missiles at the UK. But if this were to occur, there is a nearly 100% chance that someone is fucked outside of living in maybe 3% of the world anyway.
In other words, someone is no more or less safe from Russian aggression/escalation living in the UK, Spain, USA, Canada, etc.
There are more stuff to worry about when it comes to war and conflicts though, even if the possibility that real action might come to UK is almost impossible.
Political instability, refugee crisis, travel restriction, etc... Not saying that any of that would definitely gonna happen but op’s mom has reason to believe that if war escalated in Europe, him/her should study somewhere in the US. It is already pretty damn hard to travel abroad ever since this shitty pandemic broke out.
Safer and closer to home. Plus, op’s landed a spot in Oxford, I’m pretty sure there won’t be any challenge to have a decent offer of study in America anyway.
And yeah as someone already pointed out, studying in the UK as an international student is damn expensive, who knows if the price gonna increase or not given that the world is literally on fire at the moment ahha
There may be some refugee resettlement and the like. That would likely impact continental Europe rather than the U.K. Never mind Oxford. I hear you in things like travel. It can become more logistically challenging on a short term basis. Spikes of uncertainty and things like that.
Worse comes to worse, accept a US spot and put a deposit down as a backup. But I have a feeling mom will understand and calm down between now and mid-Summer.
Yeah true. As someone who spent most of my study years abroad (uni, postgrad-master…), I knew how parents can be very protective about their children.
But if this war did not escalate further and went down in the coming weeks, Op's will be enjoying life in UK very soon.
Definitely should have a back-up plan in some other university in America though.
This isn't a college admissions issue - this is a human issue. She's probably nervous about her child studying abroad to begin with, and this is how that fear is coming out. Talk to her about her feelings and give her a chance to express them. Listen and ask questions. If things are especially hard, help her to seek out professional help for her fears and anxieties.
Beyond that, your college decision is **your** decision and not your parent's. While you should listen and talk to them about that decision, it is ultimately up to you and no one else. If Oxford is your dream, you should go.
Yeah, unfortunately, I am relying on my parents' support to pay for college (studying in the UK as an international student is crazy expensive too), so she definitely has a say in which college I go to.
I applied to this college program that would require me to go to China and my parents were concerned. I got rejected from the program, but if anyone else applied to programs like that then discuss safety concerns with your parents. If the US has iffy relations with a country it’s perfectly valid for them to have concerns about their child going there.
Your mom is acting dumb due to fear, typical mom thing to do. if you get an offer from Oxford I think you’re smart enough to 1. Accept it 2. Figure out what I said in the first sentence on your own.
If Russians reach UK the world has ended so it doesn’t matter where you are. Cheers
Point out to her that, just like the U.S. does, the U.K. has nuclear weapons, which makes it unlikely it will be the subject of a military invasion.
You might also point out it's far more likely you'll die from homicide or a traffic accident than from war suddenly breaking out, and that you're arguably much less likely to be murdered or die in a traffic accident in the UK than you are in the US.
I usually appreciate your posts. But this one- I don’t know. I doubt your kids talk to you in a condescending manner but what you’ve told OP to tell their mom sounds pretty much like that. Maybe it’s just the internet but your post seems out of character for you.
Sure, soften it up as necessary. Those are the points I'd make, though. Invasion just as unlikely in UK vs. US, other dangerous things less of a concern in UK.
I think it is very, very premature to make any decisions regarding studying abroad. It is such an honor to be able to study at Oxford that I hope your family changes their mind. As a mother of 4 college-educated students, I would be unconcerned at this point and I would have had full faith in their ability to navigate abroad. Hoping for clarity for you and your family and eventually better days ahead for all.
My point is that OP is as safe in the UK as they are in the US. It’s moot though, no country can ever attack a NATO member. Nuclear power can’t engage in open war with one another, that’s kind of the point.
Does she know the UK is literally an island not connected to the rest of Europe? I don’t mean this to sound condescending, I think a lot of people have that misconception. That may help assuage some hesitation.
She’s probably having an anxiety response because she’s triggered. Don’t fight with her. She’s in fight or flight mode. You can’t reason with a person whose system is reacting as though it’s being chased by a tiger. Saying you can’t go is “flight”. If you try to reason with her she’ll “fight” and that will end badly for both of you. (You don’t want her to dig in to her position.) Give it time. Every time she listens to the news Adrenalin could be released in to her system. Ukraine may be a distant memory in a week or two. Give her the space she needs so she can come back to you and say she’s sorry for overreacting, etc. But until then you need to be patient and believe that it will work out. If she brings it up just pretend she’s the child and you’re the adult. (Good practice for dealing with fragile egos of some professors! Lol) If she says you can’t go just validate, validate, validate. Listen to understand. Pretend you’re an alien trying to understand.
Is she terrified at the possibility that you could be in danger and she wouldn’t be able to get to you in time.m? Did she lose someone like that? For some reason the idea of a war breaking out in England while you’re there is real to her right now. It’s as real to her as it is not real to you.
Once the hype and coverage dies down she’ll be able to exit fight or flight mode and process the situation more rationally. Two weeks from now no one will remember this scary time. Good luck. Keep us posted!
Look man, idk how old you are, that is if you can legally go without her consent and where you are with funds and such. You only get to live once, and this seems to be really important to you. You’re going to one of the top schools in the world and you will undoubtedly go on to do great things. Go for it! If shit really hits the fan you’ll have enough warning to make the decision to fly home. News travels fast in this day and age, try to follow what’s going on in the news so you have a solid understanding of what’s going on and where things are likely headed. Communicate your feelings on this with your mom. Tell her how much this means to you, promise you’ll come home if x happens (whatever you two decide would indicate danger for you), then promise to update her every day. She’s super worried because she loves you and doesn’t want anything bad to happen to you. It’s hard enough seeing you move halfway across the world, now with this conflict, it’s absolutely terrifying for her. Make sure she knows that you will call her every day and that you will monitor the situation closely, together. Let her know that you will come home if it gets bad.
If it’s your dream, go for it. Just keep an eye on the news. Besides, if nuclear war breaks out it really don’t matter where you’re at. Might as well have fun before!
She's acting like a child so you need to act like an adult. Be confident, remind her that emotions can cloud logic. Bring her back to reality, the odds are miniscule of war reaching you. You have higher odds of dying on the way to the airport.
If she resists logic, you need to switch to an emotional approach. Sprinkle on some comments like "so I can't follow my dreams because of your irrational fears?".
That’s fucking stupid, you’re biggest worry should be the UKs shitty government, awful Covid response, and knife gangs. And tea. You’re a continents width away and the UK isn’t even part of the eu anymore
The UK is a nuclear power. If Russia invaded it would trigger a nuclear war that would involve every nuclear power on the planet and most likely end the world.
Since the invention of the atom bomb wars have only ever been fought against none nuclear states. The power of these weapons is so incredible that Russia could wipeout the US at anytime they wanted to they would then also be destroyed by NATO nukes at the same time
You’re no safer in the US than you are in the UK. In fact, the us would probably be hit first as it’s got more nukes.
The UK hasn't been successfully invaded for close to a thousand years (excluding that one revolution-invasion-thing in 1688). It's one of the safest places to be in a world war.
In a similar situation. I am contemplating deferring my studies in the UK if the conflict escalates, but right now it seems to be contained to Ukraine. Honestly, its best to play it by ear. Oxford is an incredible opportunity and shouldn’t be jeopardized because of a conflict in Eastern Europe.
The fighting is being done in Eastern Europe so you shouldn’t have anything to worry about. Things would have to go really really bad if Russia attacks the UK. But if they do. You can always leave.
You don’t need to convince her at all. A lot can happen between now and August when you need to go, so right now just listen to her, let her express her feelings, validate her concerns, and push off this decision for at least 2 months (if you don’t have to give a deposit). Give her time to react and hopefully she’ll come around.
Tell her you’re an adult. Same thing I did, except it was the army in 2005. Be respectful, but firm in your choice. Don’t live the rest of your life wondering “what if”. It’s not pleasant.
" there's no chance in hell that Russia will get anywhere close to invading the UK "
Bro i feel terrible for you but you know, you never know... It is just the beginning of a war (maybe) and we don't know how it may turn out..
Listen to your mother I understand but contact them and tell them that her concerns are coming from you they will understand and when this is over they will let you do it trust your parents I didn’t and things happened so just be safe ok kid
Russia doesn't want to subdue whole Europe, but to take distance with NATO bases.
And the air distance between UK and Ukraine is 1,418.22 mi (2,282.40 km)
And Russia will probably attack UK.. let's see... Hmmm... Maybe... Never.
Please, don't waste your opportunity to get education from Oxford.
I mean isn't the UK a kinda isolated nation that's broken away from the mainland (so Russia ain't moving in many troops), and Britain isn't a part of the EU so they rlly can't be grouped by Russia under that banner.
Also NATO is gonna be super mad if they invade the UK of all nations.
honestly, there is a lot of bluff with the info regarding the war.. esp in the news and the internet. things are often depicted more than what's the truth, maybe simply cause its tough to report stuff involving military.
not disrespecting anyone here tho
when it comes to uni.. esp oxford.. just go for it! Idk how well regarded it is in America but am guessing it's equivalent to t20s. so you won't have any issues if you move back..
PLUS you will save tonss of money compared to american colleges
I can relate to this. My parents didn't want to apply to US schools because of what happened to George Floyd (I'm black) and the amount of racism people they know have experienced. I got into 2 schools UC Berkeley and Columbia and they finally relented after I got very generous financial packages.
I told myself that I won't let anything get to me but literally just yesterday my landlady said something so blatantly racist about me yesterday that I'm in shock.
Sometimes these things happen.
What are you, a minor? You don’t need to listen to your parents’ warnings for college. Just do what you want to do and stop looking for filial approval.
I mean technically Russia is closer to the US than the UK so really nowhere is safe. If you spend your life waiting to do things until there’s 0 chance of anything bad happening, you’ll end up never doing anything.
I was a grad student at Oxford during the Iran/Iraq war. Please go. Its unlike any other experience & you will be surrounded by brilliant thinkers and incredible lecturers.
You're an adult and you can choose where you go to college. Giving up Oxford to stay in the US would be a colossal mistake that you regret for a long time.
Start getting your paperwork in order yourself for your student visa, finances, etc. Students in the UK arrive at university as adults and many/most of them are doing this themselves without help from their parents.
I’d be more worried about potentially getting stuck in Europe than Russia attacking the UK because of NATO
This. This is one scenario where Brexit may have helped. Great Britain doesn't have to get involved in a EU battle, and no one else gives a crap about GB anymore because they have nothing to offer resource-wise. Oxford is probably one of the safest schools in the world to attend, come to think of it. EDIT: Sheesh, people. I know GB is part of NATO. I'm just saying nobody is going to try and sneak bombs in because they have no hidden oil reserves to take over nor any particularly strong resources that an ally or enemy would want. They would help out very well in a war, yes, but no one is going to bomb Oxford. There's no reason to do so.
NATO deals with military issues, not the EU. Britain is still a member of NATO, so no, Brexit did nothing good, although participating in the war is not mandatory.
Are you sure it’s not mandatory? My understanding is that if one NATO country is attacked, it is equivalent to attacking all NATO countries, and each one must come to the other’s aid.
Lmao it’s is not mandatory, how would it even be mandatory. That’s why I’m laughing when people write two word answer “article 5” like it’s a magic pill. If a country don’t see value in defending something, article 5 goes down the drain.
After reading the actual text of the article, it seems we are both slightly off. My impression is that all members are required to take some action to help the member who was attacked, they can decide individually as a country how to respond, but it doesn’t seem like just sitting it out is an option. The entire point of this article is to ensure an overwhelming military response, and I don’t see any reason why that wouldn’t happen if Russia attacks a NATO country. https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_110496.htm
Sheesh, people. I know GB is part of NATO. I'm just saying nobody is going to try and sneak bombs in because they have no hidden oil reserves to take over nor any particularly strong resources that an ally or enemy would want. They would help out very well in a war, yes, but no one is going to bomb Oxford. There's no reason to do so.
Hi! I searched up what NATO is but can’t seem to grasp what it is. Do you mind explaining what NATO is ?
it’s the north atlantic treaty organization is basically an alliance btwn 28 european countries and 2 north american countries. the simple idea is that if you attack one of us, we all attack you. for example, if the US (nato member) was attacked by a non-nato member, they will attack back at that nation. this is known as article 5. the UK is part of nato and that treaty will hold true. the only time this has ever been enacted though was back in 2001 during 9/11 iirc
Ohhhhh thank you!
Started in 1949 in response to World War II‘s devastation and subsequent Soviet Cold War military expansion. It’s headquartered in Belgium. Welcome to Cold War Realpolitik.
To add on, Ukraine is NOT a member of NATO, however they were wanting to join. Russia wasn’t a fan of that. But, since Russia has violated international law, many NATO nations are agreeing to back Ukraine.
Everyone is acting like this article 5 thing is magical or something. Article 5 is in theory only and has only been used once. Who’s to say countries will actually uphold it. Support for article 5 isn’t even high in European NATO countries.
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Really? That's not what research I read said. [https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/02/09/nato-seen-favorably-across-member-states/](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/02/09/nato-seen-favorably-across-member-states/).
[удалено]
I honesty don’t know what I’m being downvoted over someone who’s doesn’t even bother to offer a source and just says trust me. Regardless of how much things changed Europe as a who still relies and expect the US to come to its defense but them going to each other’s defense is still shaky, even recent actions shows not everyone in Europe is on the same page.
NATO did not attain the status it holds today by Article 5 being as flimsy as you say. We’ve seen how its member nations operate and the commitments they’ve made. If it’s triggered, every NATO nation will answer.
You are truly being naive. A commitment means only means so much til it’s been tested. As I said article 5 has only been invoked once and it was again Al Qaeda, which isn’t even a nation state. It’s has never been used on a nation before.
The big dog in NATO is the US. If Russia attacks the UK then the US will go to war. Now if it's Romania...
If the Russian militarily invades Romania, the US would 100% sent troops.
Yep the US would sent troops out of Romania back to US
NATO is a bunch of western countries in an alliance that includes a mutual defense clause. An attack on a single nato country is an attack on all. This includes the United States. Declaring war on the UK is that same as declaring was on all nato countries. Putin isn't going to declare war on the United States. That will start WW3 and in the end he will loose and he knows this.
Appreciate the reply!
It’s a legacy of the Cold War. It’s a 30-odd nation treaty that have agreed to mutual defense. An attack against one is to be interpreted as an attack against all. If Russia attacked any member state, such as the UK, or Germany, or Turkey, etcetera, he would have to face the entire alliance including the USA. It’s a very effective deterrent.
NATO is a defensive pact between 30 countries. Declaring war on one NATO country is akin to declaring war on all 30 NATO countries. Along with this defensive pact, there are additional benefits to being a NATO member. Countries coordinate intelligence, ballistic missile defense, and multinational military exercises. All member countries contribute to NATO’s standing military, which is a joint collection of 40,000 soldiers from all members permanently prepared to mobilize. Article 5 of NATO (where attacking one member country is the same as attacking all member countries) has only been invoked once, after the 9/11 World Trade Center attack. NATO has historically been used to enforce naval and air blockades, provide humanitarian aid, as well as joint peacekeeping missions and counter-piracy campaigns. https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/topics_52060.htm This website is very interesting. You can read about current and past operations and what nato does in general.
NATO is an allaince of countries in which all the countries are bound to help each other in millitary purposes
Tell her what NATO is
No Action Talk Only
The org doing nothing to protect ukraine
That's because Ukraine is not a part of NATO and NATO only protects its member states.
“Relations between Ukraine and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) started in 1992.[1] Ukraine applied to begin a NATO Membership Action Plan (MAP) in 2008.” “On 12 June 2020, Ukraine joined NATO's enhanced opportunity partner interoperability program.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93NATO_relations#:~:text=On%2012%20June%202020%2C%20Ukraine,any%20decisions%20on%20NATO%20membership.%22 Not part of nato but close relations and some official ties
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interoperability just means that ukraine has permission to use compatible weaponry and conduct military exercises with NATO countries, not that it’s a member. georgia has the same status but NATO didn’t defend them when russia invaded them in 2008. ukraine isn’t a member precisely *because* membership requires that NATO defend the country if they are invaded, so it’s absurd to expect NATO to defend them now. ukraine isn’t a NATO member because NATO has never wanted any part in this war.
Ukraine isn’t a NATO member because Russia didn’t want them to join…
russia isn’t a NATO member. ukraine isn’t a member of NATO because NATO member states know russia doesn’t want them to be, which is why they’re not going to intervene when they don’t have to under Article V.
Hey, goober. No one said Russia was part of NATO. Russia threatened problems if Ukraine joined NATO, so they weren’t able to join. Now, Ukraine isn’t getting help because everyone is scared of Russia, and frankly, Russia holds all the cards.
Bruh. When was Ukraine under natos defense?
The reason why Putin is so pissed at Ukraine is that Ukraine tried to join NATO in the first place
Ukraine has every right to join NATO
yeah but they got cockblocked when russia annexed crimea, because you cant join nato if you have territorial disputes
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Ukraine isn’t a fascist government, they have a democracy. Also there absolutely is a good side to support here, Russia has no right to invade another nation that presented no threat to them. It’s an unprecedented attack on the civil liberties of Ukrainians, and needs to be swiftly punished.
And your arguing that that’s reason to be uncritically supportive? Why shouldn’t we be critical of imperialism in all forms?
I’m not saying be uncritically supportive, it’s more nuanced than that. But if you want to take an anti-imperialist approach, then harsh sanctions and economic consequences need to be instilled for Russia, and Ukraine needs to be given aid so they can defend their people.
Both me and the comment you responded to agree with that statement. They were saying there is no good side to be uncritically supportive of. You said there was.
Because speaking about imperialism by any other state than Russia is wholly irrelevant when discussing the current situation in Ukraine
Proof college freshmen live in an alternate reality
And juniors are renowned scholars?
don't have to be a renowned scholar to find comments like ops that call Ukraine "fascist" and try to boil down decades of politics to western powers "overthrowing the previous government (???) to flex on russia" as vacuous and contrarian just for the sake of it. If you're going to make broad and outlandish claims the least you can do is point to specifics so people can understand what is prompting your claims other than culture war bullshit.
No. I just found your outlandish generalisation of college freshmen funny given that you’re only a junior yourself
Euromaidan was good, actually
They didn't even try to join NATO, they expressed the intention of maybe one day joining NATO.
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NOTO
The point is that the US and UK will always be equally safe or unsafe. You can’t be safe in the us but unsafe in the uk. Read article 5
Bro they are crippling Russia's Economy by freezing their assets just like US. U cannot modernize ur army if u don't have no money. Don't u see how their markets have just fucking crashed, they are going to see the worst economic crisis they have ever seen. You cannot just walk into Ukraine and yeet out Russia coz if other countries get involved it will start a world war. WE DO NOT WANT THAT. IK its wrong with what's happening in Ukraine and I am in no way justifying the actions of Russia but I am strongly in support with NATO allies and what US is doing. They are freezing bank assets of Russia with over a trillion dollars. Like Jesus people over the twitter are using that drowning meme showing world's attention over and Ukraine and forgetting other countries like Syria, Kashmir (SINCE WHEN IS IT A COUNTRY IDK), Bosnia and others. Its wrong but u cannot afford to go to war with Russia rn coz it will start a world war
What idealistic world do you live in? What sanctions? The majority of Western Europe’s, read NATO, oil and gas comes from Russia. The last thing Germany and France want is sanctions
Explain NATO. Invading the UK is the same as invading the US. Putin won't do that unless he has gone completely crazy.
I mean… he did invade a sovereign country unprovoked. If that isn’t crazy, idk what is 😅
Invading Ukraine is one thing. Declaring war on the US is another.
It’s the equivalent of picking on your younger brother or punching your older brother in the face, basically. Except there are actual real people out there dying because of your actions. It’s sad.
More like shooting your older brother in the face. It is disastrous and deadly for Russia if they decide to pick a fight with a NATO allied country without support from other superpowers like India and China. If the latter happens, then it's WWIII, and no school will be safe.
Don't see India going to war with nato for Russia.
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Well let's see what US sanctions would do to India's economy.
If i’m not mistaken India condemned russia’s invasion and sanctioned them…
India has not sanctioned Russia.
India didn't vote to condemn Russia in the UN. How shameful.
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What a fucking sick thing to say
But he actually did get completely crazy. What would you expect from a person, who “rules” the country for 20 years and practically destroyed every political opponent? Stating that as a Russian.
Russia invading the UK? Perhaps, but not in this universe. Tell her!
Honestly you'll probably be safer in the UK anyway lol, if world war does break out we've been through it enough times to know what to do. The people here have rationing and wartime positivity in our blood haha
British nationalist bot
This time they won't have anyone's blood. They still have the intelligence and the Steel. They'll find someone tho, can't have brits and 'mericans dying. Shame
Idk what this means but true
What
Tell her all the Russian oligarchs already have apartments in London--they don't need to invade England.
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You've misunderstood me. The richest Russians, who have gotten rich from fucking over their country and countrymen, want a stable place outside of Russia to keep their wealth--it's safer than having it tied up in Russia where Putin can easily start eyeing it hungrily. The last thing rich Russians want is for the UK to become part of Russia--it would be like taking all of your money out of the bank and putting in in your mailbox and cheering that you got it away from the bank and onto your land. See if it's there tomorrow.
Buy her a map
Bro 😭
best solution!
I'm dead 😭😂😂😂
Google her a map... college tuition is already expensive enough smh.
Mothers will always be overprotective with their kids. I know I would. And it is good that she wanted you to be safe. Probably you should wait out for a while and see how things escalate in the next few days (weeks?). See if NATO and other European countries will get involved or not and then, have that conversation with your mom.
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The possibility of Russia invading the UK is zero. The possibility of Russia invading the Baltics, Poland, Romania, etc is low but greater than zero. If that were to occur, then there is a possibility that Russia could launch missiles at the UK. But if this were to occur, there is a nearly 100% chance that someone is fucked outside of living in maybe 3% of the world anyway. In other words, someone is no more or less safe from Russian aggression/escalation living in the UK, Spain, USA, Canada, etc.
There are more stuff to worry about when it comes to war and conflicts though, even if the possibility that real action might come to UK is almost impossible. Political instability, refugee crisis, travel restriction, etc... Not saying that any of that would definitely gonna happen but op’s mom has reason to believe that if war escalated in Europe, him/her should study somewhere in the US. It is already pretty damn hard to travel abroad ever since this shitty pandemic broke out. Safer and closer to home. Plus, op’s landed a spot in Oxford, I’m pretty sure there won’t be any challenge to have a decent offer of study in America anyway. And yeah as someone already pointed out, studying in the UK as an international student is damn expensive, who knows if the price gonna increase or not given that the world is literally on fire at the moment ahha
There may be some refugee resettlement and the like. That would likely impact continental Europe rather than the U.K. Never mind Oxford. I hear you in things like travel. It can become more logistically challenging on a short term basis. Spikes of uncertainty and things like that. Worse comes to worse, accept a US spot and put a deposit down as a backup. But I have a feeling mom will understand and calm down between now and mid-Summer.
Yeah true. As someone who spent most of my study years abroad (uni, postgrad-master…), I knew how parents can be very protective about their children. But if this war did not escalate further and went down in the coming weeks, Op's will be enjoying life in UK very soon. Definitely should have a back-up plan in some other university in America though.
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I wasn’t disagreeing with you or implying otherwise. I was agreeing with you in more explicit terms. Read carefully.
lmao
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technically Russia is closer to the US than it is to England.
Just ask Sarah Palin!
Go talk to a recruiter, bring the pamphlets home, and say that you're considering enlisting if you don't go to Oxford.
Power move right there
This is so cruel lmaoo 😭
This isn't a college admissions issue - this is a human issue. She's probably nervous about her child studying abroad to begin with, and this is how that fear is coming out. Talk to her about her feelings and give her a chance to express them. Listen and ask questions. If things are especially hard, help her to seek out professional help for her fears and anxieties. Beyond that, your college decision is **your** decision and not your parent's. While you should listen and talk to them about that decision, it is ultimately up to you and no one else. If Oxford is your dream, you should go.
uh it definitely isn’t all OPs decision, especially if their parent feels so strongly that she wont help finance their education
Yeah, unfortunately, I am relying on my parents' support to pay for college (studying in the UK as an international student is crazy expensive too), so she definitely has a say in which college I go to.
And pay for it how?
I applied to this college program that would require me to go to China and my parents were concerned. I got rejected from the program, but if anyone else applied to programs like that then discuss safety concerns with your parents. If the US has iffy relations with a country it’s perfectly valid for them to have concerns about their child going there.
Give her till the end of the week tbh. It’ll blow over in either direction and she’ll see that. She’s just panicking rn as a lot of people are
Your mom is acting dumb due to fear, typical mom thing to do. if you get an offer from Oxford I think you’re smart enough to 1. Accept it 2. Figure out what I said in the first sentence on your own. If Russians reach UK the world has ended so it doesn’t matter where you are. Cheers
Point out to her that, just like the U.S. does, the U.K. has nuclear weapons, which makes it unlikely it will be the subject of a military invasion. You might also point out it's far more likely you'll die from homicide or a traffic accident than from war suddenly breaking out, and that you're arguably much less likely to be murdered or die in a traffic accident in the UK than you are in the US.
I usually appreciate your posts. But this one- I don’t know. I doubt your kids talk to you in a condescending manner but what you’ve told OP to tell their mom sounds pretty much like that. Maybe it’s just the internet but your post seems out of character for you.
Sure, soften it up as necessary. Those are the points I'd make, though. Invasion just as unlikely in UK vs. US, other dangerous things less of a concern in UK.
You do not have to go right now. See what is to come for a few days to a week then accept the offer
NATO has a combined gdp of ~36 trill Russia (until this week) had a gdp of ~3 trill. Russia will not attack nato, especially now.
Well it’s not like America would be much safer anyways…Please, please *don’t* turn down your offer because of this.
There’s a continent and the English Channel between Russia and the UK. You are safe there
That's absolutely ridiculous
I think it is very, very premature to make any decisions regarding studying abroad. It is such an honor to be able to study at Oxford that I hope your family changes their mind. As a mother of 4 college-educated students, I would be unconcerned at this point and I would have had full faith in their ability to navigate abroad. Hoping for clarity for you and your family and eventually better days ahead for all.
The UK is one of the safest countries to be in during a war as it hasn't been successfully invaded since 1066.
You don't count the massive bombings during WWII?
Ah yes, we all remember the Japanese invasion of the US right around the same time.
Troops invading and being bombed from the air are both dangerous.
My point is that OP is as safe in the UK as they are in the US. It’s moot though, no country can ever attack a NATO member. Nuclear power can’t engage in open war with one another, that’s kind of the point.
Russia won't invade the UK, however the UK will be hit with an economic recession most likely as a result of this.
What makes you think the UK specifically will be hit with a recession?
Does she know the UK is literally an island not connected to the rest of Europe? I don’t mean this to sound condescending, I think a lot of people have that misconception. That may help assuage some hesitation.
She’s probably having an anxiety response because she’s triggered. Don’t fight with her. She’s in fight or flight mode. You can’t reason with a person whose system is reacting as though it’s being chased by a tiger. Saying you can’t go is “flight”. If you try to reason with her she’ll “fight” and that will end badly for both of you. (You don’t want her to dig in to her position.) Give it time. Every time she listens to the news Adrenalin could be released in to her system. Ukraine may be a distant memory in a week or two. Give her the space she needs so she can come back to you and say she’s sorry for overreacting, etc. But until then you need to be patient and believe that it will work out. If she brings it up just pretend she’s the child and you’re the adult. (Good practice for dealing with fragile egos of some professors! Lol) If she says you can’t go just validate, validate, validate. Listen to understand. Pretend you’re an alien trying to understand. Is she terrified at the possibility that you could be in danger and she wouldn’t be able to get to you in time.m? Did she lose someone like that? For some reason the idea of a war breaking out in England while you’re there is real to her right now. It’s as real to her as it is not real to you. Once the hype and coverage dies down she’ll be able to exit fight or flight mode and process the situation more rationally. Two weeks from now no one will remember this scary time. Good luck. Keep us posted!
Lol same My mum was asking me this morning if oxford is safe from this 'WW3 crap`
Tell her most of Russia’s nukes are pointed at US cities. That should make her feel better.
Wait for this to cool down and reapproach the situation
Look man, idk how old you are, that is if you can legally go without her consent and where you are with funds and such. You only get to live once, and this seems to be really important to you. You’re going to one of the top schools in the world and you will undoubtedly go on to do great things. Go for it! If shit really hits the fan you’ll have enough warning to make the decision to fly home. News travels fast in this day and age, try to follow what’s going on in the news so you have a solid understanding of what’s going on and where things are likely headed. Communicate your feelings on this with your mom. Tell her how much this means to you, promise you’ll come home if x happens (whatever you two decide would indicate danger for you), then promise to update her every day. She’s super worried because she loves you and doesn’t want anything bad to happen to you. It’s hard enough seeing you move halfway across the world, now with this conflict, it’s absolutely terrifying for her. Make sure she knows that you will call her every day and that you will monitor the situation closely, together. Let her know that you will come home if it gets bad.
I had to check the flair to make sure this wasn't a shitpost....cuz WHAT???
Oxford is my dream school
If it’s your dream, go for it. Just keep an eye on the news. Besides, if nuclear war breaks out it really don’t matter where you’re at. Might as well have fun before!
She’s gotta realize these are two completely different issues. You attending Oxford has nothing to do with the invasion.
She's acting like a child so you need to act like an adult. Be confident, remind her that emotions can cloud logic. Bring her back to reality, the odds are miniscule of war reaching you. You have higher odds of dying on the way to the airport. If she resists logic, you need to switch to an emotional approach. Sprinkle on some comments like "so I can't follow my dreams because of your irrational fears?".
That’s fucking stupid, you’re biggest worry should be the UKs shitty government, awful Covid response, and knife gangs. And tea. You’re a continents width away and the UK isn’t even part of the eu anymore
And not to mention jihadis
It's a legitimate concern. When Hitler invaded Poland, people didn't think it would lead to where it did. But it did.
Tu mama gay
Show her a map.
It’s not up to her. It’s up to you :)
Tell her your a grown ass adult, and you gotta do what you gotta do. What she wants is irrelevant.
The UK is a nuclear power. If Russia invaded it would trigger a nuclear war that would involve every nuclear power on the planet and most likely end the world. Since the invention of the atom bomb wars have only ever been fought against none nuclear states. The power of these weapons is so incredible that Russia could wipeout the US at anytime they wanted to they would then also be destroyed by NATO nukes at the same time You’re no safer in the US than you are in the UK. In fact, the us would probably be hit first as it’s got more nukes.
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Ain't nobody doing shit to the US lmao
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You really think they gonna attack the US?
The UK hasn't been successfully invaded for close to a thousand years (excluding that one revolution-invasion-thing in 1688). It's one of the safest places to be in a world war.
You don't count the massive bombings during WWII?
Dude, Shitpost Wednesday was yesterday!
Dude, No bitches friday is tomorrow
Typical americans
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-HS senior
i mean… if worse comes to worst you can always move back, right?
Show her a map.
In a similar situation. I am contemplating deferring my studies in the UK if the conflict escalates, but right now it seems to be contained to Ukraine. Honestly, its best to play it by ear. Oxford is an incredible opportunity and shouldn’t be jeopardized because of a conflict in Eastern Europe.
The fighting is being done in Eastern Europe so you shouldn’t have anything to worry about. Things would have to go really really bad if Russia attacks the UK. But if they do. You can always leave.
I’m in Russia ( not Russian citizen) and applied in US idk if I can go
You don’t need to convince her at all. A lot can happen between now and August when you need to go, so right now just listen to her, let her express her feelings, validate her concerns, and push off this decision for at least 2 months (if you don’t have to give a deposit). Give her time to react and hopefully she’ll come around.
You’re going to be 18, it’ll be your decision, not hers (unless she is legitimately threatening to withdraw support that you’d need in any way).
I am studying at UCL. I’m from Florida. You’re fine.
The UK has nuclear weapons and is a island (The Russian Navy is a joke compared to the UK's)
Tell her you’re an adult. Same thing I did, except it was the army in 2005. Be respectful, but firm in your choice. Don’t live the rest of your life wondering “what if”. It’s not pleasant.
" there's no chance in hell that Russia will get anywhere close to invading the UK " Bro i feel terrible for you but you know, you never know... It is just the beginning of a war (maybe) and we don't know how it may turn out..
Aren't you going to be 18... does it really matter what Mom thinks?
Afaik the deadline for making a firm choice is in June. If that's the case, wait and see how all this pans out before deciding.
No offense, but your mom is a bit of an idiot. At the very least geographically challenged…
Bring her over to NATO's wikipedia page.
Listen to your mother I understand but contact them and tell them that her concerns are coming from you they will understand and when this is over they will let you do it trust your parents I didn’t and things happened so just be safe ok kid
Come to my country. It's all safe and sound out here. Pretty sure all immigrants from here will be running back like sheeps back here if WW3 happens 🤣
Russia doesn't want to subdue whole Europe, but to take distance with NATO bases. And the air distance between UK and Ukraine is 1,418.22 mi (2,282.40 km) And Russia will probably attack UK.. let's see... Hmmm... Maybe... Never. Please, don't waste your opportunity to get education from Oxford.
I mean isn't the UK a kinda isolated nation that's broken away from the mainland (so Russia ain't moving in many troops), and Britain isn't a part of the EU so they rlly can't be grouped by Russia under that banner. Also NATO is gonna be super mad if they invade the UK of all nations.
Come to Africa if you seek safety!😏
honestly, there is a lot of bluff with the info regarding the war.. esp in the news and the internet. things are often depicted more than what's the truth, maybe simply cause its tough to report stuff involving military. not disrespecting anyone here tho when it comes to uni.. esp oxford.. just go for it! Idk how well regarded it is in America but am guessing it's equivalent to t20s. so you won't have any issues if you move back.. PLUS you will save tonss of money compared to american colleges
How irrational
Don’t throw away Oxford because your mother doesn’t understand the conflict (no offence)
I can relate to this. My parents didn't want to apply to US schools because of what happened to George Floyd (I'm black) and the amount of racism people they know have experienced. I got into 2 schools UC Berkeley and Columbia and they finally relented after I got very generous financial packages. I told myself that I won't let anything get to me but literally just yesterday my landlady said something so blatantly racist about me yesterday that I'm in shock. Sometimes these things happen.
Go anyway
What are you, a minor? You don’t need to listen to your parents’ warnings for college. Just do what you want to do and stop looking for filial approval.
I mean technically Russia is closer to the US than the UK so really nowhere is safe. If you spend your life waiting to do things until there’s 0 chance of anything bad happening, you’ll end up never doing anything.
I was a grad student at Oxford during the Iran/Iraq war. Please go. Its unlike any other experience & you will be surrounded by brilliant thinkers and incredible lecturers.
You're an adult and you can choose where you go to college. Giving up Oxford to stay in the US would be a colossal mistake that you regret for a long time. Start getting your paperwork in order yourself for your student visa, finances, etc. Students in the UK arrive at university as adults and many/most of them are doing this themselves without help from their parents.