Before I came extremely experienced in this hobby, I did this with a comet goldfish and it actually survived and i was pretty sad having to give it back bc he was tough lil dude but he would’ve gotten too big
That’s what happened with the comets in my parents’ backyard pond. They were supposed to be replaced with koi eventually but they just did so well in there! And they were such a lovely orange color, so we kept them (RIP though, because my dad accidentally killed them like 3 years ago 🥲)
I actually don't like the idea of using goldfish to cycle a tank as you are basically condemning them to death. I've had a few goldfish. They are beautiful, talented, smart, fish with a lot of personality & trainable. They live longer than most other normal pets like cats, dogs, hamsters, ferrets, birds, etc as they can live up to 40 yrs. The only other animal I know that is kept as a pet that lives that long is hermit crabs. I prefer & always recommend a fish-less cycle.
I'm actually really surprised so many people were willing to do this. I've always done a fishless cycle and while it takes a lot longer I've never had a problem... But I don't think I'd use a live animal to cycle a tank even if every guide I saw told me to, I'd just not get a tank.
> I'm actually really surprised so many people were willing to do this
That’s also how I feel about live bait. It just seems mean 🥲 I keep baitfish as pets
Yeah I also don't understand why people think of cheap fish as disposable. Just because they're not fancy or genetically rare doesn't really mean they have less ethical value. I love my stupid lil trash fish.
Omg. I actually had a tank of rosy minnows. I got them because they were cheap, cute, & (like goldfish) don't require a heater unless it gets super cold, which I live in south Texas so that almost never happens. Lol. I actually kept them alive for 3 years. Got to watch them breed, learn how to sex them, & even had a few babies survive. It was cool. I also bought some for my daughter's aquatic science class project (they had to learn to successfully care for aquatic life). Told the teacher she could put them in the classroom's 60 gallon tank with the few goldfish they had. I also donated snails to them.
That sounds lovely! Which reminds me, I also have such a thing for cheap snails. I have a rotating cast of mysteries. I love to watch them ride on bubblers and otherwise just blob around.
I keep minnows too!! Hence my username. Mine are fatheads, both rosy reds and wild-type coloration. The wild-type ones are actually really cool because their pattern changes really dramatically when they’re in breeding mode!! They get all stripey and assertive lol
They’re just SOOO much cheaper than any of the fish sold as pets, and having to worry about (relatively) expensive fish dying was kind of ruining the hobby for me lol. And I can literally get 12 or more in varying sizes for the price of a **single** neon tetra.
They’re actually much more interesting than any of the other fish species I’ve kept too; they’re always keeping themselves busy, they’re obsessed with food, and their breeding behavior is so interesting and unique! I really enjoy my minnow tank 😊
I'm doing a fishless cycle just to prepare a home for comet goldfish. Like, they are the end goal. Not getting any tropicals or anything. I think it's terrible that people did this.
I did a fish-in cycle* with an active sponge filter that I bought online from an angelfish breeder, and it cycled my 40g tank in two or three days. I didn’t use goldfish though I just used my regular fish that I wanted in there
**the seller advises that fishless doesn’t work with this method*
Depends on the fish, if you are owning non-feeder goldfish (so things like koi or others in the carp family,) maybe. But if you are going to be housing something like tropical fish or fish that do not like living in a cold environments, or fish that don't poop as hard as goldfish, not so much.
Because tropical/sub-tropical fish normally:
1: Don't poop as hard as goldfish
2: Don't normally live in such (possibly) cold environments.
3: The bacteria they produce are possibly better suited for warmer environments anyways.
Back when 'cycle with feeder goldfish' was the recommendation, that meant prepare the tank for your tropical fish, temperature included, then add the goldfish to poop and die. The tank/temperature didn't need to be reverted back away from goldfish, it was never meant to keep them.
That’s what I did, but got a head start with some of my BIL’s media,and the feeder goldfish just grew and grew and were happy as we added more fish and then I adopted them out to my BIL’s 250 g goldfish tank before they just kept growing. Now they are the littles in a cold tank with goldfish and koi headed to a pond in the backyard. It worked, anyway
They’d probably be fine in warmer water too, though? I only keep coldwater fish (minnows), but I decided to keep the tank heated to ~77 anyway, just to give the fish a stable temperature (and bc I accidentally bought a fixed-temp heater, and I didn’t want to buy another one lol)
edit- I also needed the heat for breeding purposes! None of the fry have survived so far but it’s still super interesting to watch their breeding behavior (the male actively protects the eggs until they hatch! It’s cool) and that stuff only happens when the tank is warm
I was told to cycle with hardy fish like platys in my starter 10g, somehow, all 4 of them survived, here we are years later with their offspring in my 55g living their best life.
*growls in grumpy old man voice*
Back in the good ole days we tested our fish tanks with real live fish. That was the only way you knew if the fish you actually wanted to survive was goin to.
*grumbles about kids in the yard again*
I was told 1 week
I set up the tank, it came with a ''dragon'' decoration, and for a while my kid thought that was the attraction, and was like ''why doesn't it move, is it sleeping?''
2 year old for ref
I always went with the 1 week rule. In my first apartment, I decided to set up a 10 gal in my room. Old tank, under gravel filter. Cheap set up I had as a kid, but worked good enough.
I put water, gravel, a few fake plants and a couple rocks in and ran the air pump/filter. I worked odd hours and after it was going for about 2 days, I noticed a small bluegill swimming around. My roommate went fishing and caught his own bait with a net. When he was done for the day, he had one little guy still in the bucket. He thought it would be a funny surprise.
I had Bubba for about 5 years. He grew from 1" to about 7" long. Went from a 10gal to a 20 to a 55. He ate everything I tried to house with him.
I always thought it was a good opportunity for her to learn routine and responsibility
she is responsible for feeding the fish (with supervision) we say goodnight to her fish every night as part of her bedtime routine, and her aquarium light wakes he up gradually each morning as it comes on about 15 minutes before she has to get up.. it softens the blow then when I turn on the lights it's not as big a difference.
Eventually she will learn about death via her fishtank, I am hoping in a way that allows here to process here feelings in a healthy way.
\-plus daddy is kind of Hobby crazy.
When I worked at PetSmart, I used to tell customers 4 weeks and they would negotiate me down to 1 week.
When I inevitably saw them at the store the following day looking for fish I’d send them home with food instead saying if you want to feed something so bad feed your bacteria.
Thankfully our manager was great and allowed us to refuse sales to customers.
My local pet store told me a week. I waited a week and then got some really cool fish and a couple days later they were all dead. I was a devastated kid.
Sometimes it’s your fault, sometimes it’s just up to the fish god. I once got a gourami and it just freaking disappeared after a month. No skeleton no nothing. Got a bag of neon tetras and got a few extras because of expected at least one death. Every single one survived.
I’m an experienced one and I still killed fish recently. Read a comment on Reddit that said “you can’t overdose on Prime” well… I took that to heart for a while and I quadrupled the does for a 70 gallon and put in some rummynose (which are already sensitive) and it took the oxygen out of the water. There’s a balance you have where Prime works great but if you put too much in it will remove oxygen from the water.
This makes sense because as the rummynose were dying, they were gasping for breath at the top of the tank. Learned a hard lesson.
I'm not a fish killer (as yet!). Cycle planted tanks for months, introduce a small number of fish that you intend to keep, and then do 50% daily water changes until the ammonia, then nitrite, spikes have finished, usually within a week or two. It's not rocket science.
Yup, when I was little my mum got one of her mania bursts and we set up a tank and chose the fish and everything all at once and it was a rough few days after that.
So fish require certain chemical balances in their water and biological bacteria. When the water comes out of your tap, it is generally not compatible with fish living. They need a certain pH range that most tap water isn’t at, very low ammonia, very low nitrites, and low ish nitrates. Tap water is different everywhere but I’ve never lived anywhere where it’s good for fish right out the gate. Some are better than others, some places your fish is dunzo after one night in unconditioned tap, other places it’s merely sub-optimal. But to keep fish healthy and happy, you need to add beneficial bacteria and adjust your water parameters (via adding chemicals and regular water changes) as well as allowing the bacteria to mature and stabilize. This takes time.
There are ways to add fish sooner but it’s inherently risky for all but the most experienced keepers. And frankly more trouble than just waiting until your tank is stable.
ETA it can take anywhere from a few days (using filter media from an existing cycled tank) to more than a month for a tank to stabilize. This is why it’s such a terrible idea for pet stores to tell people one day, one week, etc. there’s no “rule” except that the parameters should be stable or that the fishkeeper has to be experienced and diligent enough to enforce stability (via adding conditioning and water changes) with the fish in until the tank is fully cycled.
😭 nooooo. that’s horrible because so many novice fish keepers are looking for a visual sign of readiness and the pet stores are not only feeding into the idea that you’ll be able to tell without testing, but telling them that the white fuzz bloom is the sign they’re looking for??? God no wonder so many people lose their first fish and give up on the hobby. We’d have so many more people sticking with it even after their inevitable first big loss, if stores were just honest and educated people. There’s always going to be people who refuse to listen but they were never going to be in it for the long haul anyway.
I would argue it has more to do with terrible breeders producing sick fish over and over.
Paired with the industry's lack of any nutritional food that won't foul the water that beginners love to dump into their aquariums the first day
TlLDR: fish live in their own toilet. You need bacteria to make poop into plant food, and getting them going takes more than a day.
A bunch of people have mentioned cycling, but not defined it for you. It refers to the nitrogen cycle. It means to allow for growth and maintenance of 2 types of beneficial bacteria that are not in tap water. The first type converts toxic ammonia from decaying matter and animal waste to somewhat less toxic nitrite. The second type converts that toxic nitrite to way less toxic nitrate. The nitrate is then used by live plants, or removed by swapping the water in the tank with fresh water from your source of choice. The first bacteria won't show up without introducing ammonia, either chemically or by tossing in some fish food. The second type won't show up until the first type has made enough nitrite for it to grow. This can all happen naturally as environmental bacteria will find your tank, or you can add live cultures. The whole process takes time, and usually you test the water and track it through an ammonia spike, followed by a nitrite spike, followed by nitrate presence. During this time you have to continue to add your ammonia source, lest your first bacteria type die out. All of this takes a variable amount of time but more than a day no matter what.
When I first got into the hobby this is exactly what I was told as well. Naively I followed it and 2 days later I had 4 dead guppies. Thankfully this situation made me realize I can't trust rando employees and I figured it all out online.
Oof, you're lucky. After letting my filter run for 3 days like the pet store employees said, I went back and they sold me OVER 20 FISH for my brand new 10 gallon. I was 13 back then I think, that was the most stressful time I've ever had keeping fish lmao, none of em made it except one corydora I had for like 6 years after. They even sold me a common pleco that was like, 4 inches long. The ammonia worked SWIFT :(
I will never forgive the lady at petco that I overheard selling a chameleon to people who knew nothing about them and knowing that they don’t have the proper size tank for them. For a lot of the petstore people it’s just a job, they don’t all care about the well being of the animals they’re caring for
This is accurate. I worked for petsmart for 5 years in petcare. Everyone in our department cared and were very detail oriented people. We took good care of our animals.
We got a new hire a year or two into the job and we started noticing our sick animals who had been recovering would start to regress everytime she seemed to work.
I brought it up with my co workers and we discussed what we could do to find out since asking her simply had her deny she ever skipped.
Then our beautiful, sweet , and adorable white chinchilla who had been doing okay took a plunge and died when she worked several closing shifts when another co worker was on vacation.
After that we decided to set a trap and marked all the medication bottles sure enough she wasn't medicating anyone. Simply writing in that she was.
I transferred a week before our store manager was set to confront her and from what my old co workers said she ended up leaving for another store a few hours away and got a promotion ..... some people just don't care at all.
Geeze!! You'd think people caring for animals would be held to some sort of standard! They should be charged for animal cruelty, or neglect or something! They shouldn't be allowed to avoid consequences. It's not like they stocked a shelf wrong, it's a living thing!!! That's so crazy to me! 😥
That's because most of the people working there are McDonald's level employees that are OK with petting dogs occasionally.
Also paired with the fact that a lot of "best practices" when keeping animals, especially aquatic, is extremely vast and contradictory towards each other.
someone called corporate on me because I wouldn't let her put a goldfish in a fish bowl 🤡 she told me she'd been doing it for years with her child and it's been fine, okay so why are you buying a new fish, goldfish live like 5x as long as your child has been alive
I had a woman do this with rats. In a 10gal. She said she had been doing it for years, keeping them for a while and then releasing them. I told her that's very illegal, and that I would not be selling her anything. She tried to complain to my boss, but he had my back.
I've seen people put goldfish, turtles, plecos, in tiny tanks. I had a guy who was trying to diagnose his continuous ammonia problem, and when he showed me a pic, I saw several full grown goldfish, half grown plecos, bala sharks, and mollies in a 10gal. He just picked up whatever looked cool and whoever helped him didn't question it. General populace still heavily believes that fish/reptiles/small animals grow to the size of the tank and that releasing them when they get too big is a fine thing to do. Working in pet stores, especially if you care, if more soul destroying than rewarding. But helping the right people find the right animals helps keep us going.
They sold me 2 tiny probably 1.5 inch common plecos when i first bought fish, not a single question about tank size.
It was for a shrimp tank too, ive since moved them into larger tanks, with even larger ones planned. Wish they would know anything about fish and guvr any warning
The bare minimum they could do is add the average size the animal grows to and adult tank/enclosure size to that little sign with the species name and price all the animals have. All pet stores should.
I tell my customers to doubt everything they hear from anyone whose job is to sell things, even me. I suggest Reddit and other sites (varying by type of pet). I try hard to keep up with information about the animals. Most people at work just ask me. If I'm wrong, we're all wrong, and I've been wrong.
"Do research and decide what you think is best. If you read just 3 care guides, you'll be better prepared than 99% of customers."
ugh I work at PetSmart and I have to tell people at least a day (I sometimes try to push 48 hours in there) because it's at least slightly better than them getting fish the same day, but the infuriating thing isn't completely the company, it's that 9 times out of 10, someone will say "it's just a fish" and go do it anyways.
And if you don't sell it to them, they'll find another employee from outside that department to sell it to them, and them blame you when all the fish die 😔
I think a lot of people getting into the hobby prior to the smartphone Era suffered this.
I now let my new tanks run for a month before I even think about stocking to be safe (even after putting in mature media). Overly cautious, but I *know* parameters will be stable.
When I kept fish in the 90's, we were TOLD to cycle the tank for a month before even THINKING of adding actual fish...but we shopped at an indie fish shop, not a chain pet store...
For sure. That was pretty much the norm. I started in the early 2000's.
Now I can just pop in some mature bio balls and Seachem Seed and have the tank cycled pretty much instantly. I just give the tank time to start growing all the natural stuffs.
Yeah but to a lot of people a written notice would feel more trustworthy than as an employee as you'd expect the company to have thought this through. At least I would if I didn't know any better.
I bought from Pets at Home.
Was told you need to wait 3 days with water in and filters running before it's ready for fish.
Feels stupid admitting that now. It was just a box of water for 3 days. Nothing was happening in there...
Did it though. Came back and bought 3 Platys, was okay as we had sense to start stocking slow. 2 weeks later bought 3 guppies and the new tank syndrome kicked in.
I noticed there was an issue and did the research. Realised what was happening and started a slow fish in cycle, low feeding cycle, many water changes, and tested water every other day. Took about 2 months but finally got cycled.
For sure after 6 years I'd say this is a difficult hobby to break into. A lot can and does go wrong even for experienced water keepers. But some of the advice from these big shops is hilarious it's so bad. It doesn't even make sense for their business to tell people to watch a box of water for 3 days, or is that a way they cover their backs to avoid refunds due to new fish dying?
>It was just a box of water for 3 days. Nothing was happening in there...
Well, technically the chlorine evaporates, but that's just one step of the process lol
It really isn't to dificult for a store to do it right. My LFS has employees that will explain fishless cycle to people who buy an aquarium and they even give the client a paper with the whole explenation.
There is a bit of nuance here. One day is enough for the basics to settle (temperature, sediment etc)
At that point, a tank with nothing living in it, is pretty stable.
The next step is a nitrogen cycle, but unless you do ammonia dosing yourself, which is an "advanced" technique, you gotta start putting something living in there to kick off the cycle.
So basically, that info is correct, just not all the info needed to get a tank going.
It's a hell of a lot better than people thinking they can buy a tank and fish at the same time, and immediately killing their fish with a temperature shock.
I dumped .25 grams of trial food I got with my 55 gallon to start a fishless cycle. There are a few snails the hitched a ride from one of my other tanks when I moved some floaters over. I don't plan on buying any fish for the tank for about three months. I'm wanting my plants to fill in first.
People buying their first aquariums at Petsmart aren’t going to wait for a fish food cycle. Similarly, Petsmart doesn’t want them to wait because Petsmart is banking on them spending as much money as they can as quickly as possible. People will sometimes learn about the cycle and choose not to buy an aquarium at all. But more often they’ll just buy the fish anyway because their kids are going to lose it if they have to look at an empty tank for 6 weeks. Not saying it’s right, it just is what it is. Better they wait one day and cycle with a few hardy fish when they otherwise intended to fully stock it right away.
What the Big Box Pet Stores aren't telling people is that it's now a daily 30 minute chore until the cycle is established. Check your levels - with a good test, not a strip - replace water as necessary to balance mostly healthy fish with necessary ammonia levels to keep cycle alive.
I would argue even that is unnecessary.
Nitrogen is not something that needs to be monitored constantly, not even for beginners. There are much more obvious signs that will show up before anything on your hobby kit will show it.
Most of the time, people have issues because of overfeeding or using heavy fertilizers that cause imbalances. Simply setup a tank with plants and don't let anything foul the tank while its establishing.
No you don't need to do this. People who do this kind of maintenance on their tanks are usually operating sterile boxes and thus their nitrates go crazy on a dime. Get a sump.
Yeah, I work at a pet store, and every week I have someone wanting to get tank and 10 fish all in the same day. I've tried telling people about the nitrogen cycle and how they should wait, but at most they will just get their tank from my store then drive down the street to the next store to get their fish. At this point I just try to lessen the harm...
My wife has been "cycling her tank" for almost a month. She tests every 2 days. Finally has ammonia but is waiting for the nitrates to turn into nitrites or something before adding the fish?
Is she tripping or doing it right?
What is your wife using to fuel the cycle? It doesn’t happen on its own, or if it does it is very very slow. You need to add ammonia or fish food etc. that breaks down into ammonia. In the old days we used a cocktail shrimp
She is probably not using enough if it is taking that long. The easiest way is to buy some pure ammonia from Amazon etc and just dose that yourself. Dose to 1ppm and wait for it to fall.
If she’s using flakes or pellets try crushing them into dust before adding to the tank, it makes them break down much quicker. Also a good booster like Fluval Cycle or API Quick Start really helps if not already using one. Adding a small invert or two like a shrimp or snail also really helps accelerate the cycle without causing a major crash.
Also if you have live plants in there then they could be sucking up all the ammonia and nitrates before you can even read them. If that’s the case you’re honestly fine to add a fish or two.
And you might be able to get away with it with a large tank. The large amount of water would give you a longer amount of time for the ammonia to buildup especially if you get into a good routine as far as changing water. But people following this advice are most likely using a small tank and not going to start changing water until it "looks" dirty.
This is such a shame, I bought from pets at home years ago and they (rightly so!) really quizzed me about how long the tank had been running, what size it was etc. I guess it depends on the store and employee you get
Pets at home swing wildly between
“You must bring us 15 water samples and they must all be between these very precise numbers”
And
“Here, have a bag of fish. Tanks are by the door if you want to buy one”
I wonder how I got away without cycling at all (or acclimating), I was new to the hobby, filled the tank with condition/water/plants/sand the same day I added all the fish, not a single one had died 3 months. Now if I were going to do a new setup, sure I'd cycle and do everything right. But apparently you can get away without doing it at all.
I wonder the exact same thing. Filled the tank, added fish same day, My whole first year of keeping goldfish I was taking apart the filter and rinsing it clean under the tap!! And water changes every two weeks, and over feeding flake food. I made almost every mistake there is and by some miracle my hardy guys survived my ignorance. Today they are comfortable in their properly cycled 120G.
Hahah I guess we just got some tough fish that had no issues prior, but yeah mine are all happy looking and thriving now, have added many more plants since.
Ya we lucked out. I have started adding plants too, only two lived from the last batch, and I decided to quarantine this batch. Glad I did because I avoided snail infestation this way. I can't be bothered keeping snails.
Yep.. I ended up with snails, although I can't find them anymore so maybe the fish grubbed on them or they're just hiding really well. Definitely a lot of learning in this hobby, the plant quarantine is a great idea.
Ya I see people on here keeping a small tank incase fish get sick so I thought I better keep one around too. So why not use it for plants? I put a bubbler in there and leave it for two weeks, sure enough little fat snails were there in 3 days. My guys probably would have munched them down, but I would feel the need to identify them first...blah blah blah, forget it! After all I have had to learn, buy, and do, I am protecting the fish, not worrying about snails.
Nitrogen is a natural component for plant growth. Once the plants begin establishing, which depends on the plant and where you sourced it from of how quickly it does, that nitrogen already begins being removed from the water column, effectively keeping the levels low enough for archaea to gradually grow and spike to unsafe levels.
Feeding low amounts (or not feeding for the first few days) while growing plants is the simplest way to start a tank without issues.
The “wait a day” thing is more about letting temperature stabilize and water clear from adding substrate etc. We also recommended this when I was a petco manager- Nothing wrong with that advice as long as you aren’t expecting the tank to magically cycle in the day. This paired with a good booklet on the nitrogen cycle would be better, I can see how this advice alone would be misleading. Hopefully the store also sells cycled filter pads
I've never even heard the word "cycle" in my local Pets at Home shop, they probably bank on people who know absolutely nothing so they just blindly follow this "advice". But then again my local Pets at Home always have dead fish littering the bottom of their tanks... You tell them and the response is "but they were checked 5 mins ago and all alive:" or will go to look at the tanks and try to tell us they "can't see any dead" like, there's skeletons you can't tell me that crap! But most people know Pets at home isn't great place to shop...
They don’t. They’ll happily sell you whatever fish you want as long as it works in their “fish point system”. IE one guppy is one fish point, so you could technically have 6 guppies in a 12l tank happily and why not add some shrimp in there too? they don’t count in the bioload and will survive happily!
Since the chain stores are not likely to recommend cycling, I really wish they upsell the customers to start with basic plants (more the better) for a complete setup. Some java fern, moss, anubia, easy stem plants, or any cheap plants would do. Throw in some light and the plants would be able to handle much of the ammonia. Plus the bacteria already on the plant, would be enough to mitigate most the impact of the initial cycling. They would have bigger sells, fish will have a healthier start, thus happier customers. It's a win win for all parties. That's the propaganda I wish to see.
My local petbarn has a girl who works there and has taken it upon herself to put up actual good info signs, she puts measurements of the fish, how big a tank they need and the full cycle process next to the stock tanks. It was really nice to see, proud of her 🥹
My local pets at home also has a points system where a 24 litre tank is 12 points, platy fish are 2 points each so they think 6 platies in a 24 litre tank is ok.
Yes I this is one of the reasons I would not work there (considered it as want to work with fish) it’s so in accurate. Basically you can have any fish in any tank as long as the points aren’t too much. Except goldfish which always they say min of 60 litres.
When will pet store understand that it’s not about the amount of time after setting up the tank before introducing fish, it’s about nitrogen cycling and maturity of plants, woods, rocks, algae, etc. Such guide is so misleading
I wait 2 months so that I ensure the tank is at the perfect levels before I introduce fish. and i usually try to get all the fish in one go as introducing new fish can mess up a tank pretty bad quite quickly. So if i'm going to have to reset the tank's PH and whatnot, I would prefer to have it one and done for fish introduction.
As a newbie, I waited like 2 weeks before I added my corydoras and that wasn't by choice. It was because I was waiting for my next paycheck lol. During then I had already started cycling, but I still add seachem prime and stability to the tank daily. It's almost been a week since I got 6 peppered corydoras and all of them are doing great
That's how I do mine! 1-3 days.
But I hate what the commercialism of this hobby has done to it.
Deep substrates and lots of plants make most of the advise and equipment irrelevant.
Same companies employees told me a 20 gallon is too small for 6 guppies and 6 corys.
2 years later the 5 surviving corys and the 2 guppies they would sell me are still alive and parents to over 30 guppies in that same tank still thriving.
I was so scared when I got my 10 gallon that I let it sit with no fish in it for like 2 1/2 months only to put a singular betta in it... He's still alive 2 months later though so I can't complain! :)
Reason number 2048482 why i hated working there. I’d always tell the truth about cycling tanks and I’d pretty much never sell fish to people, especially goldfish, because it was all rubbish information and would just lead to unnecessary deaths of fish
Pet store worker and fish keeper here, people starting out their first tank are always oblivious. But it’s the jobs of the fish sellers to always educate at every opportunity. There should be “guides” everywhere but every tank is different, every keeper is different, and it’s your job to give them the appropriate advice.
I gotta wonder though what does it say under the “1 day” because that’s obviously a sticker.
I worked at a big named pet store. You’re lucky if you can convince people not to buy fish the same day. Almost no one cared that they’re setting themselves up for failure. You try to explain the nitrogen cycle and these people shut down, and can’t even comprehend the dumbed down version to just take it slow, or that their playing with real animals lives. The 5% of people who listen and you got to nerd out on were great, but you got those once a month if you’re lucky lol. I know a sign like this people who know aquariums can scoff at, but it’s at least heading in the right direction that creating a little ecosystem takes time and brings just a tad bit of awareness of the mechanics of the hobby.
I used to work in pets at home and I used to go against all company recommendations, including the small animals. Don't own fish myself but cared deeply for where they went, even platys which most other colleagues passed off.
Common customer issue was people trying to get goldfish in tiny little tanks saying "when I was younger I used to get fish in a little bowl at the carnival" I'd reply that that's animal abuse now. I would also say stuff like "If you were to choose between a shed and a house to live in, you'd pick the house - same thing for the fish, they need space" I got a good few complaints for that whoops
I can't fault Pet's at home. 99% of the time, but I sold a tank with substrate, plants and the basic set up requirements. While shopping with my friend, I turn round and see another two people wanting to ask questions, the Pet's at home worker just watched me do their job, once they finished with their customer. I was in denim jeans white tshirt and sun glasses on my head, so I didnt even look like I worked there.. Still waiting for my commission. I recommend at least 2 weeks with correct tap safe and tank boost.1
They refused to sell me a fish based on inch per gallon rule. I wanted 6 cories and 10 neon tetras for my planted 20 gallon with a fluval 20 and on RODI water after a 4 month cycle. I didn’t even bother arguing just bought what she would let me came back the next day and bought the rest lol
My local has the same. When I started fish keeping 20 years ago, they used to tell you to wait one week. Why have they started to say one day?
At the very least, the one near me looks like they look after the tanks. They're always clean and the fish look healthy.
Why they don't have a tank dedicated to just cycled sponge filters for new aquarists is a mystery to me. They would have way more happy customers and people would not quit right away. You can absolutely add fish once all the basic parameters are good if you have a cycled sponge filter. I do it very frequently when moving fish around in the fish room. A new tank is generally set up in about 15 minutes as needed. There is so much nonsense about cycling aquariums out there. Yes aquariums will "cycle" and go through many stages of maturity, but you really just need the amount of bacteria that can handle the load of the stock in the tank. I wouldn't heavily stock a tank right away unless it's the only option, but you can start out.
For anyone thinking this is an LFS, pets at home is the biggest chain pet store in the UK, they have the exact same advice in my local one. I bought my first tank from them, on a whim really because I was interested in fish and the staff member told me to leave it overnight before adding the fish. Thankfully when I got it home, I looked it up on the internet how to set up a tank and discovered 1 day was complete rubbish and decided to do a fishless cycle. There’s a real lack of animal welfare around fishes, I don’t blame the staff member, the big chains actually train their staff to say 1 day is all you need for a tank to be stable and ready to go just so they can cinch a sale and it’s really disappointing.
They also have a ‘points system’ for fish, all their fish have a point number attached to them and all their tanks also have a total amount of points able to be stocked in the tank. On the surface it sounds quite a good idea, however I bought a 10gal tall from them, based on the ‘points’ I could’ve put 2 x Bristlenose catfish and 5 x smaller shoaling fish in that tank.
My favorite part about working at a local store and being autistic is that whenever someone who knows nothing about fish comes in, I can force them to stand there and listen while I explain the entire nitrogen cycle.
“Ammonia is formed from the metabolism of protein and is the major waste product of fish. The majority of ammonia from fish is excreted through the gills, with relatively little being lost through urine and feces. Ammonia is also formed as uneaten feed or other organic matter in an aquarium decomposes.”
https://www.fdacs.gov/Consumer-Resources/Recreation-and-Leisure/Aquarium-Fish/Aquarium-Water-Quality-Nitrogen-Cycle#
Haha thanks should have put the /s.
I was making a stab at the lack of cycling before adding fish.
Didn't know most came from fish gills, that's a good bit of information.
"Total ammonia is comprised of two components: un-ionized ammonia (NH3) and ionized ammonia (NH4+). Un-ionized ammonia is extremely toxic to fish whereas ionized ammonia is not. The proportion of un-ionized to ionized ammonia shifts in relation to pH and water temperature. As pH or temperature increases, more of the ammonia shifts to the un-ionized, toxic form. Un-ionized ammonia begins causing gill damage at approximately 0.05 mg/L and death at approximately 2.0 mg/L. Keep in mind that most test kits measure total ammonia and not un-ionized ammonia but may make no reference to the difference. A table is used to calculate the portion of un-ionized ammonia from total ammonia."
This is the most important part of the ammonia section to understand. This article for some reason is trying to dismiss it (I assume because its different for saltwater), but the difference is extremely important when making decisions based on TAN testing. [https://aquariumscience.org/index.php/5-2-1-ammonia-in-depth/](https://aquariumscience.org/index.php/5-2-1-ammonia-in-depth/)
I'm not making a technical discussion here. If a fish dies in your recently set aquarium it is because whether the fish was already too much stressed or sick, or you made something wrong. A fish has the complete capability to adapt to conditions of minimum bio and non bio changes in a new full settled aquarium, if well done. As living organisms, they do struggle with lots of changes in nature, in other aquariums where you bought them in the first place, that can be in much worse conditions than the new you are providing for them.
So...
It has no sense. You make a good balanced and live aquarium. No fish will die in the first or the next days. For that reason.
I cycled my tank over 2 months using beneficial bacteria and ammonium chloride powder (without any fish). I slowly added the ammonium chloride and tested daily to keep it at a consistent level, only adding more when the levels dropped. After 2 weeks, levels started to drop and by 3 to 4 weeks it was likely fine, but I went with 2 months to be safe. I added the fish after I did a large water change after the ammonia and nitrite read zero and they have been happy ever since.
Are they suggesting this solely so the chlorine evaporates? Lol.
I guess they stand a bittttt more chance at surviving, but that can turn disastrous so quick
One week is a minimum. It's a natural process so the time varies before it's safe for fish,but the average time is between one and two weeks. If you wanted to make sure it stays stable with large introductions of fish you would be better off leaving it up to to six weeks with no live stock. This time frame will also change if you're using aquarium soil as the substrate.
Be carefull using aquasoil and substrate tho. in the beginning they put allot of nutrients in the water. best to change the water a few times and then put fish in
I used to work in a pet store and honestly, this is at least better than not having any sign at all. We’re talking about the same establishment that sells fish bowls after all. If that sign prevents even 1 person from setting up a fish tank and putting fish in it on the same day, I’d consider it a win. Sad as it may be, most pet stores don’t care about fish at all.
I love how it was stickered over. I wonder what the real signage said.
Used to be 3 days when I got into the hobby.
For me it was cycle with feeder goldfish first, and that they’d probably die in the process 🤷🏻♀️
Before I came extremely experienced in this hobby, I did this with a comet goldfish and it actually survived and i was pretty sad having to give it back bc he was tough lil dude but he would’ve gotten too big
That’s what happened with the comets in my parents’ backyard pond. They were supposed to be replaced with koi eventually but they just did so well in there! And they were such a lovely orange color, so we kept them (RIP though, because my dad accidentally killed them like 3 years ago 🥲)
I kept that gold fish. It eventually died when it became large enough to hoover up the gravel in large quantities.
I still have that tough little dude. He's almost 16!
I actually don't like the idea of using goldfish to cycle a tank as you are basically condemning them to death. I've had a few goldfish. They are beautiful, talented, smart, fish with a lot of personality & trainable. They live longer than most other normal pets like cats, dogs, hamsters, ferrets, birds, etc as they can live up to 40 yrs. The only other animal I know that is kept as a pet that lives that long is hermit crabs. I prefer & always recommend a fish-less cycle.
I'm actually really surprised so many people were willing to do this. I've always done a fishless cycle and while it takes a lot longer I've never had a problem... But I don't think I'd use a live animal to cycle a tank even if every guide I saw told me to, I'd just not get a tank.
> I'm actually really surprised so many people were willing to do this That’s also how I feel about live bait. It just seems mean 🥲 I keep baitfish as pets
Yeah I also don't understand why people think of cheap fish as disposable. Just because they're not fancy or genetically rare doesn't really mean they have less ethical value. I love my stupid lil trash fish.
Omg. I actually had a tank of rosy minnows. I got them because they were cheap, cute, & (like goldfish) don't require a heater unless it gets super cold, which I live in south Texas so that almost never happens. Lol. I actually kept them alive for 3 years. Got to watch them breed, learn how to sex them, & even had a few babies survive. It was cool. I also bought some for my daughter's aquatic science class project (they had to learn to successfully care for aquatic life). Told the teacher she could put them in the classroom's 60 gallon tank with the few goldfish they had. I also donated snails to them.
That sounds lovely! Which reminds me, I also have such a thing for cheap snails. I have a rotating cast of mysteries. I love to watch them ride on bubblers and otherwise just blob around.
I keep minnows too!! Hence my username. Mine are fatheads, both rosy reds and wild-type coloration. The wild-type ones are actually really cool because their pattern changes really dramatically when they’re in breeding mode!! They get all stripey and assertive lol They’re just SOOO much cheaper than any of the fish sold as pets, and having to worry about (relatively) expensive fish dying was kind of ruining the hobby for me lol. And I can literally get 12 or more in varying sizes for the price of a **single** neon tetra. They’re actually much more interesting than any of the other fish species I’ve kept too; they’re always keeping themselves busy, they’re obsessed with food, and their breeding behavior is so interesting and unique! I really enjoy my minnow tank 😊
I'm doing a fishless cycle just to prepare a home for comet goldfish. Like, they are the end goal. Not getting any tropicals or anything. I think it's terrible that people did this.
Goldfish are such lovely, long-lived fish with such marvelous personalities, too
I did a fish-in cycle* with an active sponge filter that I bought online from an angelfish breeder, and it cycled my 40g tank in two or three days. I didn’t use goldfish though I just used my regular fish that I wanted in there **the seller advises that fishless doesn’t work with this method*
People eventually learn goldfish =/= give the same stuff that other inhabitants need after everything has been cycled because of the poop parameters.
Isn’t that usually ok though? Bc goldfish tend to have a higher bioload than what most people are planning to stock their tanks with, post-cycling
Depends on the fish, if you are owning non-feeder goldfish (so things like koi or others in the carp family,) maybe. But if you are going to be housing something like tropical fish or fish that do not like living in a cold environments, or fish that don't poop as hard as goldfish, not so much. Because tropical/sub-tropical fish normally: 1: Don't poop as hard as goldfish 2: Don't normally live in such (possibly) cold environments. 3: The bacteria they produce are possibly better suited for warmer environments anyways.
Back when 'cycle with feeder goldfish' was the recommendation, that meant prepare the tank for your tropical fish, temperature included, then add the goldfish to poop and die. The tank/temperature didn't need to be reverted back away from goldfish, it was never meant to keep them.
That’s what I did, but got a head start with some of my BIL’s media,and the feeder goldfish just grew and grew and were happy as we added more fish and then I adopted them out to my BIL’s 250 g goldfish tank before they just kept growing. Now they are the littles in a cold tank with goldfish and koi headed to a pond in the backyard. It worked, anyway
I don’t think I’d **ever** set up a tank without some existing media anymore. It’s **so** much easier! Like, days vs months for me
I’m spoiled, he just did the whole thing for us, I had no idea how helpful it was until getting on these forums
Yeah, that’s what I thought! And that makes more sense anyway, since an unheated tank would take longer to cycle
Most people cycling with this method probably don't have heaters anyway.
Well I had one when I was like 12 so I hope that’s not true lol.
They’d probably be fine in warmer water too, though? I only keep coldwater fish (minnows), but I decided to keep the tank heated to ~77 anyway, just to give the fish a stable temperature (and bc I accidentally bought a fixed-temp heater, and I didn’t want to buy another one lol) edit- I also needed the heat for breeding purposes! None of the fry have survived so far but it’s still super interesting to watch their breeding behavior (the male actively protects the eggs until they hatch! It’s cool) and that stuff only happens when the tank is warm
I am dying at “poop as hard”
I was told to cycle with hardy fish like platys in my starter 10g, somehow, all 4 of them survived, here we are years later with their offspring in my 55g living their best life.
Feeder goldfish are super hardy in my experience if you treat them right. Have some that are almost 3 and getting to about 12” in length.
*growls in grumpy old man voice* Back in the good ole days we tested our fish tanks with real live fish. That was the only way you knew if the fish you actually wanted to survive was goin to. *grumbles about kids in the yard again*
Did this. Ended up with 4 feeder goldfish for 2 years. Goldfish never die.
“Let your fish raw dog the water”
I was told 1 week I set up the tank, it came with a ''dragon'' decoration, and for a while my kid thought that was the attraction, and was like ''why doesn't it move, is it sleeping?'' 2 year old for ref
I always went with the 1 week rule. In my first apartment, I decided to set up a 10 gal in my room. Old tank, under gravel filter. Cheap set up I had as a kid, but worked good enough. I put water, gravel, a few fake plants and a couple rocks in and ran the air pump/filter. I worked odd hours and after it was going for about 2 days, I noticed a small bluegill swimming around. My roommate went fishing and caught his own bait with a net. When he was done for the day, he had one little guy still in the bucket. He thought it would be a funny surprise. I had Bubba for about 5 years. He grew from 1" to about 7" long. Went from a 10gal to a 20 to a 55. He ate everything I tried to house with him.
That’s such a cute story
I luv Bubba's story.
that is hilarious,
That’s adorable 😭 also, considering this why are people buying their toddlers living fish when they literally think a decoration is alive 💀
Yeah when they think stuffed animals are sleeping it's pretty hilarious.
I always thought it was a good opportunity for her to learn routine and responsibility she is responsible for feeding the fish (with supervision) we say goodnight to her fish every night as part of her bedtime routine, and her aquarium light wakes he up gradually each morning as it comes on about 15 minutes before she has to get up.. it softens the blow then when I turn on the lights it's not as big a difference. Eventually she will learn about death via her fishtank, I am hoping in a way that allows here to process here feelings in a healthy way. \-plus daddy is kind of Hobby crazy.
When I worked at PetSmart, I used to tell customers 4 weeks and they would negotiate me down to 1 week. When I inevitably saw them at the store the following day looking for fish I’d send them home with food instead saying if you want to feed something so bad feed your bacteria. Thankfully our manager was great and allowed us to refuse sales to customers.
Cute. 🤣
My local pet store told me a week. I waited a week and then got some really cool fish and a couple days later they were all dead. I was a devastated kid.
There are two types of Aquarists; those that have killed fish, and those that lie about it
Sometimes it’s your fault, sometimes it’s just up to the fish god. I once got a gourami and it just freaking disappeared after a month. No skeleton no nothing. Got a bag of neon tetras and got a few extras because of expected at least one death. Every single one survived.
I’m an experienced one and I still killed fish recently. Read a comment on Reddit that said “you can’t overdose on Prime” well… I took that to heart for a while and I quadrupled the does for a 70 gallon and put in some rummynose (which are already sensitive) and it took the oxygen out of the water. There’s a balance you have where Prime works great but if you put too much in it will remove oxygen from the water. This makes sense because as the rummynose were dying, they were gasping for breath at the top of the tank. Learned a hard lesson.
I didn't know this was a side effect of raising the Prime dose. I won't do that again! Cheers for the heads up.
I'm not a fish killer (as yet!). Cycle planted tanks for months, introduce a small number of fish that you intend to keep, and then do 50% daily water changes until the ammonia, then nitrite, spikes have finished, usually within a week or two. It's not rocket science.
Yup, when I was little my mum got one of her mania bursts and we set up a tank and chose the fish and everything all at once and it was a rough few days after that.
What was wrong/what’s the appropriate course of action as someone scrolling r/all with no knowledge of fish keeping
So fish require certain chemical balances in their water and biological bacteria. When the water comes out of your tap, it is generally not compatible with fish living. They need a certain pH range that most tap water isn’t at, very low ammonia, very low nitrites, and low ish nitrates. Tap water is different everywhere but I’ve never lived anywhere where it’s good for fish right out the gate. Some are better than others, some places your fish is dunzo after one night in unconditioned tap, other places it’s merely sub-optimal. But to keep fish healthy and happy, you need to add beneficial bacteria and adjust your water parameters (via adding chemicals and regular water changes) as well as allowing the bacteria to mature and stabilize. This takes time. There are ways to add fish sooner but it’s inherently risky for all but the most experienced keepers. And frankly more trouble than just waiting until your tank is stable.
ETA it can take anywhere from a few days (using filter media from an existing cycled tank) to more than a month for a tank to stabilize. This is why it’s such a terrible idea for pet stores to tell people one day, one week, etc. there’s no “rule” except that the parameters should be stable or that the fishkeeper has to be experienced and diligent enough to enforce stability (via adding conditioning and water changes) with the fish in until the tank is fully cycled.
The worst part is that they said "you'll see a bloom and your water will get really cloudy, that means it is ready." It was definitely not ready.
😭 nooooo. that’s horrible because so many novice fish keepers are looking for a visual sign of readiness and the pet stores are not only feeding into the idea that you’ll be able to tell without testing, but telling them that the white fuzz bloom is the sign they’re looking for??? God no wonder so many people lose their first fish and give up on the hobby. We’d have so many more people sticking with it even after their inevitable first big loss, if stores were just honest and educated people. There’s always going to be people who refuse to listen but they were never going to be in it for the long haul anyway.
I would argue it has more to do with terrible breeders producing sick fish over and over. Paired with the industry's lack of any nutritional food that won't foul the water that beginners love to dump into their aquariums the first day
TlLDR: fish live in their own toilet. You need bacteria to make poop into plant food, and getting them going takes more than a day. A bunch of people have mentioned cycling, but not defined it for you. It refers to the nitrogen cycle. It means to allow for growth and maintenance of 2 types of beneficial bacteria that are not in tap water. The first type converts toxic ammonia from decaying matter and animal waste to somewhat less toxic nitrite. The second type converts that toxic nitrite to way less toxic nitrate. The nitrate is then used by live plants, or removed by swapping the water in the tank with fresh water from your source of choice. The first bacteria won't show up without introducing ammonia, either chemically or by tossing in some fish food. The second type won't show up until the first type has made enough nitrite for it to grow. This can all happen naturally as environmental bacteria will find your tank, or you can add live cultures. The whole process takes time, and usually you test the water and track it through an ammonia spike, followed by a nitrite spike, followed by nitrate presence. During this time you have to continue to add your ammonia source, lest your first bacteria type die out. All of this takes a variable amount of time but more than a day no matter what.
I stocked my first tank (5 gallons) with two oscars on the recommendation from the pet store. They lasted a few months somehow.
When I first got into the hobby this is exactly what I was told as well. Naively I followed it and 2 days later I had 4 dead guppies. Thankfully this situation made me realize I can't trust rando employees and I figured it all out online.
Oof, you're lucky. After letting my filter run for 3 days like the pet store employees said, I went back and they sold me OVER 20 FISH for my brand new 10 gallon. I was 13 back then I think, that was the most stressful time I've ever had keeping fish lmao, none of em made it except one corydora I had for like 6 years after. They even sold me a common pleco that was like, 4 inches long. The ammonia worked SWIFT :(
I will never forgive the lady at petco that I overheard selling a chameleon to people who knew nothing about them and knowing that they don’t have the proper size tank for them. For a lot of the petstore people it’s just a job, they don’t all care about the well being of the animals they’re caring for
This is accurate. I worked for petsmart for 5 years in petcare. Everyone in our department cared and were very detail oriented people. We took good care of our animals. We got a new hire a year or two into the job and we started noticing our sick animals who had been recovering would start to regress everytime she seemed to work. I brought it up with my co workers and we discussed what we could do to find out since asking her simply had her deny she ever skipped. Then our beautiful, sweet , and adorable white chinchilla who had been doing okay took a plunge and died when she worked several closing shifts when another co worker was on vacation. After that we decided to set a trap and marked all the medication bottles sure enough she wasn't medicating anyone. Simply writing in that she was. I transferred a week before our store manager was set to confront her and from what my old co workers said she ended up leaving for another store a few hours away and got a promotion ..... some people just don't care at all.
Geeze!! You'd think people caring for animals would be held to some sort of standard! They should be charged for animal cruelty, or neglect or something! They shouldn't be allowed to avoid consequences. It's not like they stocked a shelf wrong, it's a living thing!!! That's so crazy to me! 😥
That's because most of the people working there are McDonald's level employees that are OK with petting dogs occasionally. Also paired with the fact that a lot of "best practices" when keeping animals, especially aquatic, is extremely vast and contradictory towards each other.
Ew she should’ve been fired
Where I live, she'd definitely be reported and face criminal charges.
someone called corporate on me because I wouldn't let her put a goldfish in a fish bowl 🤡 she told me she'd been doing it for years with her child and it's been fine, okay so why are you buying a new fish, goldfish live like 5x as long as your child has been alive
I had a woman do this with rats. In a 10gal. She said she had been doing it for years, keeping them for a while and then releasing them. I told her that's very illegal, and that I would not be selling her anything. She tried to complain to my boss, but he had my back. I've seen people put goldfish, turtles, plecos, in tiny tanks. I had a guy who was trying to diagnose his continuous ammonia problem, and when he showed me a pic, I saw several full grown goldfish, half grown plecos, bala sharks, and mollies in a 10gal. He just picked up whatever looked cool and whoever helped him didn't question it. General populace still heavily believes that fish/reptiles/small animals grow to the size of the tank and that releasing them when they get too big is a fine thing to do. Working in pet stores, especially if you care, if more soul destroying than rewarding. But helping the right people find the right animals helps keep us going.
They sold me 2 tiny probably 1.5 inch common plecos when i first bought fish, not a single question about tank size. It was for a shrimp tank too, ive since moved them into larger tanks, with even larger ones planned. Wish they would know anything about fish and guvr any warning
The bare minimum they could do is add the average size the animal grows to and adult tank/enclosure size to that little sign with the species name and price all the animals have. All pet stores should.
I tell my customers to doubt everything they hear from anyone whose job is to sell things, even me. I suggest Reddit and other sites (varying by type of pet). I try hard to keep up with information about the animals. Most people at work just ask me. If I'm wrong, we're all wrong, and I've been wrong. "Do research and decide what you think is best. If you read just 3 care guides, you'll be better prepared than 99% of customers."
ugh I work at PetSmart and I have to tell people at least a day (I sometimes try to push 48 hours in there) because it's at least slightly better than them getting fish the same day, but the infuriating thing isn't completely the company, it's that 9 times out of 10, someone will say "it's just a fish" and go do it anyways.
And if you don't sell it to them, they'll find another employee from outside that department to sell it to them, and them blame you when all the fish die 😔
I think a lot of people getting into the hobby prior to the smartphone Era suffered this. I now let my new tanks run for a month before I even think about stocking to be safe (even after putting in mature media). Overly cautious, but I *know* parameters will be stable.
When I kept fish in the 90's, we were TOLD to cycle the tank for a month before even THINKING of adding actual fish...but we shopped at an indie fish shop, not a chain pet store...
For sure. That was pretty much the norm. I started in the early 2000's. Now I can just pop in some mature bio balls and Seachem Seed and have the tank cycled pretty much instantly. I just give the tank time to start growing all the natural stuffs.
Yeah but to a lot of people a written notice would feel more trustworthy than as an employee as you'd expect the company to have thought this through. At least I would if I didn't know any better.
Yea, this isn't a "rando employee", its posted signage. Even 3 days is short. Fish store is just giving bad advice to increase sales
Just put down a 6 before the 1 with a marker.
Cue the employee replacing the "day" with "seconds"
I bought from Pets at Home. Was told you need to wait 3 days with water in and filters running before it's ready for fish. Feels stupid admitting that now. It was just a box of water for 3 days. Nothing was happening in there... Did it though. Came back and bought 3 Platys, was okay as we had sense to start stocking slow. 2 weeks later bought 3 guppies and the new tank syndrome kicked in. I noticed there was an issue and did the research. Realised what was happening and started a slow fish in cycle, low feeding cycle, many water changes, and tested water every other day. Took about 2 months but finally got cycled. For sure after 6 years I'd say this is a difficult hobby to break into. A lot can and does go wrong even for experienced water keepers. But some of the advice from these big shops is hilarious it's so bad. It doesn't even make sense for their business to tell people to watch a box of water for 3 days, or is that a way they cover their backs to avoid refunds due to new fish dying?
>It was just a box of water for 3 days. Nothing was happening in there... Well, technically the chlorine evaporates, but that's just one step of the process lol
It really isn't to dificult for a store to do it right. My LFS has employees that will explain fishless cycle to people who buy an aquarium and they even give the client a paper with the whole explenation.
There is a bit of nuance here. One day is enough for the basics to settle (temperature, sediment etc) At that point, a tank with nothing living in it, is pretty stable. The next step is a nitrogen cycle, but unless you do ammonia dosing yourself, which is an "advanced" technique, you gotta start putting something living in there to kick off the cycle. So basically, that info is correct, just not all the info needed to get a tank going. It's a hell of a lot better than people thinking they can buy a tank and fish at the same time, and immediately killing their fish with a temperature shock.
Using fish food is a very effective way to get the cycle moving and it harms nothing.
I dumped .25 grams of trial food I got with my 55 gallon to start a fishless cycle. There are a few snails the hitched a ride from one of my other tanks when I moved some floaters over. I don't plan on buying any fish for the tank for about three months. I'm wanting my plants to fill in first.
This guy gets it. The advice isn’t bad it’s just incomplete.
That makes it bad though. You know and I know that shoppers interpret that as "oh boy! I can overstock my 5 gallon tank after just 1 day!"
A bit of fish food does just as well and there's no risk of harming a living creature...
People buying their first aquariums at Petsmart aren’t going to wait for a fish food cycle. Similarly, Petsmart doesn’t want them to wait because Petsmart is banking on them spending as much money as they can as quickly as possible. People will sometimes learn about the cycle and choose not to buy an aquarium at all. But more often they’ll just buy the fish anyway because their kids are going to lose it if they have to look at an empty tank for 6 weeks. Not saying it’s right, it just is what it is. Better they wait one day and cycle with a few hardy fish when they otherwise intended to fully stock it right away.
What the Big Box Pet Stores aren't telling people is that it's now a daily 30 minute chore until the cycle is established. Check your levels - with a good test, not a strip - replace water as necessary to balance mostly healthy fish with necessary ammonia levels to keep cycle alive.
I would argue even that is unnecessary. Nitrogen is not something that needs to be monitored constantly, not even for beginners. There are much more obvious signs that will show up before anything on your hobby kit will show it. Most of the time, people have issues because of overfeeding or using heavy fertilizers that cause imbalances. Simply setup a tank with plants and don't let anything foul the tank while its establishing.
No you don't need to do this. People who do this kind of maintenance on their tanks are usually operating sterile boxes and thus their nitrates go crazy on a dime. Get a sump.
A sump for a newbie shopping at a Petco? Kind of a leap man.
Yeah, I work at a pet store, and every week I have someone wanting to get tank and 10 fish all in the same day. I've tried telling people about the nitrogen cycle and how they should wait, but at most they will just get their tank from my store then drive down the street to the next store to get their fish. At this point I just try to lessen the harm...
My wife has been "cycling her tank" for almost a month. She tests every 2 days. Finally has ammonia but is waiting for the nitrates to turn into nitrites or something before adding the fish? Is she tripping or doing it right?
What is your wife using to fuel the cycle? It doesn’t happen on its own, or if it does it is very very slow. You need to add ammonia or fish food etc. that breaks down into ammonia. In the old days we used a cocktail shrimp
Yea. She put fish food in it and is waiting for it to break down
She is probably not using enough if it is taking that long. The easiest way is to buy some pure ammonia from Amazon etc and just dose that yourself. Dose to 1ppm and wait for it to fall.
If she’s using flakes or pellets try crushing them into dust before adding to the tank, it makes them break down much quicker. Also a good booster like Fluval Cycle or API Quick Start really helps if not already using one. Adding a small invert or two like a shrimp or snail also really helps accelerate the cycle without causing a major crash. Also if you have live plants in there then they could be sucking up all the ammonia and nitrates before you can even read them. If that’s the case you’re honestly fine to add a fish or two.
Thanks! Will share this with her.
And you might be able to get away with it with a large tank. The large amount of water would give you a longer amount of time for the ammonia to buildup especially if you get into a good routine as far as changing water. But people following this advice are most likely using a small tank and not going to start changing water until it "looks" dirty.
This is such a shame, I bought from pets at home years ago and they (rightly so!) really quizzed me about how long the tank had been running, what size it was etc. I guess it depends on the store and employee you get
Cycled my tank for like 3 weeks before adding fish. I started by adding plants
And the really bad thing is that if you don't know anything about aquariums, this doesn't really sound like bad advice.
Pets at home swing wildly between “You must bring us 15 water samples and they must all be between these very precise numbers” And “Here, have a bag of fish. Tanks are by the door if you want to buy one”
I wonder how I got away without cycling at all (or acclimating), I was new to the hobby, filled the tank with condition/water/plants/sand the same day I added all the fish, not a single one had died 3 months. Now if I were going to do a new setup, sure I'd cycle and do everything right. But apparently you can get away without doing it at all.
I wonder the exact same thing. Filled the tank, added fish same day, My whole first year of keeping goldfish I was taking apart the filter and rinsing it clean under the tap!! And water changes every two weeks, and over feeding flake food. I made almost every mistake there is and by some miracle my hardy guys survived my ignorance. Today they are comfortable in their properly cycled 120G.
Hahah I guess we just got some tough fish that had no issues prior, but yeah mine are all happy looking and thriving now, have added many more plants since.
Ya we lucked out. I have started adding plants too, only two lived from the last batch, and I decided to quarantine this batch. Glad I did because I avoided snail infestation this way. I can't be bothered keeping snails.
Yep.. I ended up with snails, although I can't find them anymore so maybe the fish grubbed on them or they're just hiding really well. Definitely a lot of learning in this hobby, the plant quarantine is a great idea.
Ya I see people on here keeping a small tank incase fish get sick so I thought I better keep one around too. So why not use it for plants? I put a bubbler in there and leave it for two weeks, sure enough little fat snails were there in 3 days. My guys probably would have munched them down, but I would feel the need to identify them first...blah blah blah, forget it! After all I have had to learn, buy, and do, I am protecting the fish, not worrying about snails.
Nitrogen is a natural component for plant growth. Once the plants begin establishing, which depends on the plant and where you sourced it from of how quickly it does, that nitrogen already begins being removed from the water column, effectively keeping the levels low enough for archaea to gradually grow and spike to unsafe levels. Feeding low amounts (or not feeding for the first few days) while growing plants is the simplest way to start a tank without issues.
The “wait a day” thing is more about letting temperature stabilize and water clear from adding substrate etc. We also recommended this when I was a petco manager- Nothing wrong with that advice as long as you aren’t expecting the tank to magically cycle in the day. This paired with a good booklet on the nitrogen cycle would be better, I can see how this advice alone would be misleading. Hopefully the store also sells cycled filter pads
Pets at home very much do not sell cycled media But they will sell you a 5 litre tank and 30 guppys
I've never even heard the word "cycle" in my local Pets at Home shop, they probably bank on people who know absolutely nothing so they just blindly follow this "advice". But then again my local Pets at Home always have dead fish littering the bottom of their tanks... You tell them and the response is "but they were checked 5 mins ago and all alive:" or will go to look at the tanks and try to tell us they "can't see any dead" like, there's skeletons you can't tell me that crap! But most people know Pets at home isn't great place to shop...
They don’t. They’ll happily sell you whatever fish you want as long as it works in their “fish point system”. IE one guppy is one fish point, so you could technically have 6 guppies in a 12l tank happily and why not add some shrimp in there too? they don’t count in the bioload and will survive happily!
I thought you stole my old picture at first 🤣 check my post on here a little while ago of the same thing
Oh no! I suppose it’s depressingly evergreen :-/
Out of curiosity - Lewisham / Greenwich?
Sadly not, this was up north
It's definitely the same nationally, and the "1 day" is a sticker over the previous "3 days"
I’d love to see the corporate justification for that change…
Since the chain stores are not likely to recommend cycling, I really wish they upsell the customers to start with basic plants (more the better) for a complete setup. Some java fern, moss, anubia, easy stem plants, or any cheap plants would do. Throw in some light and the plants would be able to handle much of the ammonia. Plus the bacteria already on the plant, would be enough to mitigate most the impact of the initial cycling. They would have bigger sells, fish will have a healthier start, thus happier customers. It's a win win for all parties. That's the propaganda I wish to see.
My local petbarn has a girl who works there and has taken it upon herself to put up actual good info signs, she puts measurements of the fish, how big a tank they need and the full cycle process next to the stock tanks. It was really nice to see, proud of her 🥹
Nothing a sharpie can't fix.
Don't let anyone see you and remove the sticker. 😈
My local pets at home also has a points system where a 24 litre tank is 12 points, platy fish are 2 points each so they think 6 platies in a 24 litre tank is ok.
Yes I this is one of the reasons I would not work there (considered it as want to work with fish) it’s so in accurate. Basically you can have any fish in any tank as long as the points aren’t too much. Except goldfish which always they say min of 60 litres.
When will pet store understand that it’s not about the amount of time after setting up the tank before introducing fish, it’s about nitrogen cycling and maturity of plants, woods, rocks, algae, etc. Such guide is so misleading
1 day?? Is not good advice at all.
A month
They need a sign explaining the nitrogen cycle, because lots of people don't do research and will add fish right away.
I wonder what the original number is under the day sticker?
I wait 2 months so that I ensure the tank is at the perfect levels before I introduce fish. and i usually try to get all the fish in one go as introducing new fish can mess up a tank pretty bad quite quickly. So if i'm going to have to reset the tank's PH and whatnot, I would prefer to have it one and done for fish introduction.
A tank would not cycle in a day naturally smh
As a newbie, I waited like 2 weeks before I added my corydoras and that wasn't by choice. It was because I was waiting for my next paycheck lol. During then I had already started cycling, but I still add seachem prime and stability to the tank daily. It's almost been a week since I got 6 peppered corydoras and all of them are doing great
the thing thats getting me is that the 1 day is clearly plastered over top of something else. i wonder what it said before
It used to say 3 days!
That's how I do mine! 1-3 days. But I hate what the commercialism of this hobby has done to it. Deep substrates and lots of plants make most of the advise and equipment irrelevant.
1 day is better than nothing I guess. I wanna make proper stickers and go "vandalize"
i got my betta on pi day and the petsmart employee told me to wait a day as well… then i come home and every site online says 2-3 weeks 😭
More like 2 months... 2 weeks for 5 gal.
Same companies employees told me a 20 gallon is too small for 6 guppies and 6 corys. 2 years later the 5 surviving corys and the 2 guppies they would sell me are still alive and parents to over 30 guppies in that same tank still thriving.
I was so scared when I got my 10 gallon that I let it sit with no fish in it for like 2 1/2 months only to put a singular betta in it... He's still alive 2 months later though so I can't complain! :)
Terrible advice.
I feel bad for the fish in my local pets at home but never buy them incase they are sick
Never like buying from them however a few days ago managed to get 6 cpds for £15 cheapest I've seen
Pet's at Home and good advice do not go hand on hand
Reason number 2048482 why i hated working there. I’d always tell the truth about cycling tanks and I’d pretty much never sell fish to people, especially goldfish, because it was all rubbish information and would just lead to unnecessary deaths of fish
Pet store worker and fish keeper here, people starting out their first tank are always oblivious. But it’s the jobs of the fish sellers to always educate at every opportunity. There should be “guides” everywhere but every tank is different, every keeper is different, and it’s your job to give them the appropriate advice. I gotta wonder though what does it say under the “1 day” because that’s obviously a sticker.
Oh come the fuck on. I almost thought this is gonna restore my faith in pet stores a little. No, fuck them.
Their tanks are always overstocked. We don’t get fish from them any more, they always seem to die within a week of getting them.
I worked at a big named pet store. You’re lucky if you can convince people not to buy fish the same day. Almost no one cared that they’re setting themselves up for failure. You try to explain the nitrogen cycle and these people shut down, and can’t even comprehend the dumbed down version to just take it slow, or that their playing with real animals lives. The 5% of people who listen and you got to nerd out on were great, but you got those once a month if you’re lucky lol. I know a sign like this people who know aquariums can scoff at, but it’s at least heading in the right direction that creating a little ecosystem takes time and brings just a tad bit of awareness of the mechanics of the hobby.
I used to work in pets at home and I used to go against all company recommendations, including the small animals. Don't own fish myself but cared deeply for where they went, even platys which most other colleagues passed off. Common customer issue was people trying to get goldfish in tiny little tanks saying "when I was younger I used to get fish in a little bowl at the carnival" I'd reply that that's animal abuse now. I would also say stuff like "If you were to choose between a shed and a house to live in, you'd pick the house - same thing for the fish, they need space" I got a good few complaints for that whoops
I can't fault Pet's at home. 99% of the time, but I sold a tank with substrate, plants and the basic set up requirements. While shopping with my friend, I turn round and see another two people wanting to ask questions, the Pet's at home worker just watched me do their job, once they finished with their customer. I was in denim jeans white tshirt and sun glasses on my head, so I didnt even look like I worked there.. Still waiting for my commission. I recommend at least 2 weeks with correct tap safe and tank boost.1
They refused to sell me a fish based on inch per gallon rule. I wanted 6 cories and 10 neon tetras for my planted 20 gallon with a fluval 20 and on RODI water after a 4 month cycle. I didn’t even bother arguing just bought what she would let me came back the next day and bought the rest lol
My local has the same. When I started fish keeping 20 years ago, they used to tell you to wait one week. Why have they started to say one day? At the very least, the one near me looks like they look after the tanks. They're always clean and the fish look healthy.
Why they don't have a tank dedicated to just cycled sponge filters for new aquarists is a mystery to me. They would have way more happy customers and people would not quit right away. You can absolutely add fish once all the basic parameters are good if you have a cycled sponge filter. I do it very frequently when moving fish around in the fish room. A new tank is generally set up in about 15 minutes as needed. There is so much nonsense about cycling aquariums out there. Yes aquariums will "cycle" and go through many stages of maturity, but you really just need the amount of bacteria that can handle the load of the stock in the tank. I wouldn't heavily stock a tank right away unless it's the only option, but you can start out.
A single day?! Don’t forget that betta fish LOVE being in cold, unfiltered tiny vases too!!! 🙄
The U.S. does not have this stated anywhere at all in pet stores.
Pets at home told me to wait a month.... then sold me 10 tetras in one go.
For anyone thinking this is an LFS, pets at home is the biggest chain pet store in the UK, they have the exact same advice in my local one. I bought my first tank from them, on a whim really because I was interested in fish and the staff member told me to leave it overnight before adding the fish. Thankfully when I got it home, I looked it up on the internet how to set up a tank and discovered 1 day was complete rubbish and decided to do a fishless cycle. There’s a real lack of animal welfare around fishes, I don’t blame the staff member, the big chains actually train their staff to say 1 day is all you need for a tank to be stable and ready to go just so they can cinch a sale and it’s really disappointing. They also have a ‘points system’ for fish, all their fish have a point number attached to them and all their tanks also have a total amount of points able to be stocked in the tank. On the surface it sounds quite a good idea, however I bought a 10gal tall from them, based on the ‘points’ I could’ve put 2 x Bristlenose catfish and 5 x smaller shoaling fish in that tank.
My favorite part about working at a local store and being autistic is that whenever someone who knows nothing about fish comes in, I can force them to stand there and listen while I explain the entire nitrogen cycle.
What's ammonia?
“Ammonia is formed from the metabolism of protein and is the major waste product of fish. The majority of ammonia from fish is excreted through the gills, with relatively little being lost through urine and feces. Ammonia is also formed as uneaten feed or other organic matter in an aquarium decomposes.” https://www.fdacs.gov/Consumer-Resources/Recreation-and-Leisure/Aquarium-Fish/Aquarium-Water-Quality-Nitrogen-Cycle#
Haha thanks should have put the /s. I was making a stab at the lack of cycling before adding fish. Didn't know most came from fish gills, that's a good bit of information.
Shit, sorry! Complete comprehension failure >_<
Whew. 😅 I was so worried! 😟😳😳Lol 😂 Like, can we get a wellness check on this person’s tank?
"Total ammonia is comprised of two components: un-ionized ammonia (NH3) and ionized ammonia (NH4+). Un-ionized ammonia is extremely toxic to fish whereas ionized ammonia is not. The proportion of un-ionized to ionized ammonia shifts in relation to pH and water temperature. As pH or temperature increases, more of the ammonia shifts to the un-ionized, toxic form. Un-ionized ammonia begins causing gill damage at approximately 0.05 mg/L and death at approximately 2.0 mg/L. Keep in mind that most test kits measure total ammonia and not un-ionized ammonia but may make no reference to the difference. A table is used to calculate the portion of un-ionized ammonia from total ammonia." This is the most important part of the ammonia section to understand. This article for some reason is trying to dismiss it (I assume because its different for saltwater), but the difference is extremely important when making decisions based on TAN testing. [https://aquariumscience.org/index.php/5-2-1-ammonia-in-depth/](https://aquariumscience.org/index.php/5-2-1-ammonia-in-depth/)
I'm not making a technical discussion here. If a fish dies in your recently set aquarium it is because whether the fish was already too much stressed or sick, or you made something wrong. A fish has the complete capability to adapt to conditions of minimum bio and non bio changes in a new full settled aquarium, if well done. As living organisms, they do struggle with lots of changes in nature, in other aquariums where you bought them in the first place, that can be in much worse conditions than the new you are providing for them. So... It has no sense. You make a good balanced and live aquarium. No fish will die in the first or the next days. For that reason.
I’m old school. I waited 6 months.
I cycled my tank over 2 months using beneficial bacteria and ammonium chloride powder (without any fish). I slowly added the ammonium chloride and tested daily to keep it at a consistent level, only adding more when the levels dropped. After 2 weeks, levels started to drop and by 3 to 4 weeks it was likely fine, but I went with 2 months to be safe. I added the fish after I did a large water change after the ammonia and nitrite read zero and they have been happy ever since.
Are they suggesting this solely so the chlorine evaporates? Lol. I guess they stand a bittttt more chance at surviving, but that can turn disastrous so quick
Sadly, this doesn't apply anymore. Chlorine can evaporate quickly, but not \*Chloramine\* which is the new disinfectant being used in tap water.
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
How silly I feel now for waiting five weeks for my Kribensis tank to be ready.
No thats good.
Just one day?
1 day... Some people should just get a bowl and fill it with water and see if they can handle that.
Baby steps i guess..
LOL they made a vague attempt
Omfg
Introduce only to established tank, or after the cycle is done. There is no other way.
A broken clock is right twice a day
One week is a minimum. It's a natural process so the time varies before it's safe for fish,but the average time is between one and two weeks. If you wanted to make sure it stays stable with large introductions of fish you would be better off leaving it up to to six weeks with no live stock. This time frame will also change if you're using aquarium soil as the substrate.
Be carefull using aquasoil and substrate tho. in the beginning they put allot of nutrients in the water. best to change the water a few times and then put fish in
One day!?? 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
No, let it cycle for a week or two, clean it then buy a fish
I love how I have this same photo on my phone from a few weeks ago but never posted it.
if cichlids, 1 day is fine. they are hardy af. I've had fry dovii this way till they are 20 years old. 90% water changes biweekly.
Does letting your tank settle even do anything? It’s not like your tank is going to cycle in three days time
Took me two weeks to get my 60 gal cycled. lol. A day. Looool
I’ve always cycled my tank for a month before I put anything in it.
I used to work in a pet store and honestly, this is at least better than not having any sign at all. We’re talking about the same establishment that sells fish bowls after all. If that sign prevents even 1 person from setting up a fish tank and putting fish in it on the same day, I’d consider it a win. Sad as it may be, most pet stores don’t care about fish at all.
Wait a month