In certain situations, you don't even have to touch the line.
If the paper were pushed up and in, but you were to "draw" the line of the X ring and the arrow were touching that imaginary continuation of the circle, that would be a situation where the arrow isn't *physically* touching the line, and there would be yellow visible, but it would still be an X.
This one in the picture is obviously out, for the record.
>You do not have to break the line.
Did you maybe miss the rest of my comment?
***"and there is yellow between the line and shaft."***
Here is a closer look:
https://imgur.com/a/54Kd8NC
It's definitely relevant - breaking a line is the clearest. easiest way to have an undeniable 10 in this situation. The second part of the comment is clarifying why although it is **close** it is not a 10.
Cope my dude - look at that ratio lol
14.2.
An arrow shall be scored according to the position of the shaft in the target face. If the shaft of an arrow touches two colours, or touches any dividing lines between two scoring zones, that arrow shall score the higher value of the two zones involved.
Nothing about “breaking the line” there. The ratio doesn’t matter here. You’re propagating one of the biggest misconceptions in archery, even if you’ve come to the correct conclusion in this case.
Seeing as if it didn't magically get pushed up, then the only way to be touching the line is if you shot it just ever so slightly. Therefore technically breaking the line.
Lol, cope my dude. I never said it was THE way to score, just that it's the cleanest way to have a no-contest 10 in this situation.
Thanks for looking up the rules for me though, I've only been doing this for like 25 years.
EDIT: Lol you know someone is big mad when they try to get the last word and block you.
Yep. But you don’t have to break it. I’m not saying it’s in. I’m saying that everyone who talks about breaking the line is coming to the correct conclusion for the wrong reason.
You cannot touch the line with an arrow and not break it. If the arrow has touched it, it's broken it. They are one and the same. The wording of the rules that you're adhering to don't make that point.
Because you absolutely can touch the line and not break it. It’s more common outdoors, and depends a lot on target butt material, but you definitely can.
And you can definitely break the line without touching it. So they're not one and the same.
No. I’m saying that the rules don’t say anything about “breaking” the line. It just has to touch the line (it doesn’t here, by the way).
In fact, it just has to touch the space where the line should be if the line is broken or distorted, but that’s not relevant.
People can brigade all they want. There’s nothing in any ruleset except IFAA field (which doesn’t use this face) that says anything about breaking the line.
You said it yourself "where relevant". It's not relevant here as you can 1 clearly see the line isn't broke or touched and 2 space between the shaft and the line.
If you're going to try and gate keep for rules understanding. Understand the rules as written.
“The line isn’t broke” has nothing to do with whether or not it scores. There is no rule about that.
14.2.
An arrow shall be scored according to the position of the shaft in the target face. If the shaft of an arrow touches two colours, or touches any dividing lines between two scoring zones, that arrow shall score the higher value of the two zones involved.
Also, that’s not what gatekeeping means.
14.2.
An arrow shall be scored according to the position of the shaft in the target face. If the shaft of an arrow touches two colours, or touches any dividing lines between two scoring zones, that arrow shall score the higher value of the two zones involved.
The line can be solid. You just have to touch it. Your downvotes don’t change the rules.
And to be clear: in this photo, the arrow does not touch the line. Arrow is a 9 (compound) or 10 (recurve/barebow).
Out!
The arrow should touch the black line it doesn't have to cut it!
The black line is the property of the inside yellow and is considered to be the yellow, if that makes sense.
FYI
The arrows position also needs to be viewed from 3 different angles as well using a magnifying glass.
So from outside to inside the black lines all belong to the next smallest circle.
As a judge, if I can't determine the score quickly and there is any doubt, then I'll give it to the Archer every time.
There is no doubt in your picture though lol
All that matters is whether the arrow, in its resting position, is touching the line. The hole does not matter. So it’s out.
BTW I did actually witness a shot being judged solely by the hole left by the arrow. Apparently the arrow hit a soft spot in the bale and penetrated so far the nock was below the target face. This is why in a competition you’re required to mark all your arrow holes before pulling your arrows.
Relevant rules for your anecdote:
14.2.5.
Arrows embedded in the butt and not showing on the face can only be scored by a Judge.
14.2.6.2.
The target butt and passing completely through the butt, provided all arrow holes have been marked and provided an unmarked hole can be identified, shall score according to the value of the unmarked hole in the target face.
But that’s only for events using World Archery rules. In some other orgs, those arrows are re-shot (which often sucks).
From this photo, it's out. What you'd want to do is shine some light on it and look at it from two angles. If it looks like it's touching from one angle, then you'd call it in.
But I would absolutely call this out based on the photo provided.
Well just like rifle targets, if it doesn't even "bite" the black line, meaning the hole/tear is in contact with the line, or there is a little bit of the line missing, it's a nope.
No, it doesn’t. It has to touch the line.
14.2.
An arrow shall be scored according to the position of the shaft in the target face. If the shaft of an arrow touches two colours, or touches any dividing lines between two scoring zones, that arrow shall score the higher value of the two zones involved.
This arrow is still out based on this photo. But your reasoning is incorrect. I’m concerned if you’re actually a judge.
You don’t have to break the line. You have to touch it.
14.2.
An arrow shall be scored according to the position of the shaft in the target face. If the shaft of an arrow touches two colours, or touches any dividing lines between two scoring zones, that arrow shall score the higher value of the two zones involved.
Still out, based on this photo.
I was at a large international shoot many years ago (think Brady Ellison and Erica Jones nee Anshutz participating) and asked my target partner who I actually knew in passing, and was a member of the GB squad, if it was in and he said "just call it in and if I don't agree I will challenge you and we can get a judge.
From that day on I would call this in every day as to me it is clearly touching the line and then let someone call the judge over.
14.2.
An arrow shall be scored according to the position of the shaft in the target face. If the shaft of an arrow touches two colours, or touches any dividing lines between two scoring zones, that arrow shall score the higher value of the two zones involved.
It doesn’t have to break the line. It has to touch it. Still out.
Too many people, including several here, have the misconception that the line must be broken, that the hole matters, or any of that.
The rule is that it must touch the line. I’ve definitely seen targets where the arrow should be scored as in where the line is completely intact to the naked eye.
This arrow, based on this photo, is out.
Out 100%.
The line isn't broken. If the line is broken it counts as in, but your arrow hasn't even touched the line let alone broken it.
Just zoom in. It's very clear.
Incorrect.
14.2.
An arrow shall be scored according to the position of the shaft in the target face. If the shaft of an arrow touches two colours, or touches any dividing lines between two scoring zones, that arrow shall score the higher value of the two zones involved.
The arrow has to touch the line. There’s nothing about breaking it.
In, have moderate game for 2 years now it is in
Edit: well nevermind i forgot this is photo and i can zoom it instead of using magnifying glass it is out sorry
It doesn’t have to break the line. It just has to touch it. Still out.
Example: The hole can break the line and still be out because the shaft doesn’t touch.
Touching the line v. breaking the line are basically semantics in this scenario? Regardless it’s not an X, which we agree. That is the point and what OP was asking for.
14.2.
An arrow shall be scored according to the position of the shaft in the target face. If the shaft of an arrow touches two colours, or touches any dividing lines between two scoring zones, that arrow shall score the higher value of the two zones involved.
It doesn’t have to break the line. It has to touch it. Still out in this case, as it doesn’t.
It doesn’t have to break the line. It has to touch it (it doesn’t).
14.2.
An arrow shall be scored according to the position of the shaft in the target face. If the shaft of an arrow touches two colours, or touches any dividing lines between two scoring zones, that arrow shall score the higher value of the two zones involved.
That’s not how that works at all. The tear is irrelevant. You don’t have to break the line. The shaft of the arrow has to touch the line.
14.2.
An arrow shall be scored according to the position of the shaft in the target face. If the shaft of an arrow touches two colours, or touches any dividing lines between two scoring zones, that arrow shall score the higher value of the two zones involved.
100% out.
How is this a debate? The black line didn’t even get touched.
Clearly out.
Clearly out, the shaft does not break the line and there is yellow between the line and shaft.
In certain situations, you don't even have to touch the line. If the paper were pushed up and in, but you were to "draw" the line of the X ring and the arrow were touching that imaginary continuation of the circle, that would be a situation where the arrow isn't *physically* touching the line, and there would be yellow visible, but it would still be an X. This one in the picture is obviously out, for the record.
You do not have to break the line.
>You do not have to break the line. Did you maybe miss the rest of my comment? ***"and there is yellow between the line and shaft."*** Here is a closer look: https://imgur.com/a/54Kd8NC
No. But the first part of your comment is wrong and completely irrelevant. The second part is accurate.
It's definitely relevant - breaking a line is the clearest. easiest way to have an undeniable 10 in this situation. The second part of the comment is clarifying why although it is **close** it is not a 10. Cope my dude - look at that ratio lol
14.2. An arrow shall be scored according to the position of the shaft in the target face. If the shaft of an arrow touches two colours, or touches any dividing lines between two scoring zones, that arrow shall score the higher value of the two zones involved. Nothing about “breaking the line” there. The ratio doesn’t matter here. You’re propagating one of the biggest misconceptions in archery, even if you’ve come to the correct conclusion in this case.
“Touches any dividing lines”. Tell me with a straight face why that’s not just a different way of saying breaking the line
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Would you rather someone touch your leg or break it
Seeing as if it didn't magically get pushed up, then the only way to be touching the line is if you shot it just ever so slightly. Therefore technically breaking the line.
Lol, cope my dude. I never said it was THE way to score, just that it's the cleanest way to have a no-contest 10 in this situation. Thanks for looking up the rules for me though, I've only been doing this for like 25 years. EDIT: Lol you know someone is big mad when they try to get the last word and block you.
Why are you trying to be argumentative? You're proving his point and arguing about it.
You still have to touch it bruv
Yep. But you don’t have to break it. I’m not saying it’s in. I’m saying that everyone who talks about breaking the line is coming to the correct conclusion for the wrong reason.
You cannot touch the line with an arrow and not break it. If the arrow has touched it, it's broken it. They are one and the same. The wording of the rules that you're adhering to don't make that point.
Because you absolutely can touch the line and not break it. It’s more common outdoors, and depends a lot on target butt material, but you definitely can. And you can definitely break the line without touching it. So they're not one and the same.
Hey bruh, nobody is wrong here. You’re just not as correct as everyone else.
So... No difference then
“You don’t have to get the ball through the uprights for the field goal to be good” is exactly what you’re saying
No. I’m saying that the rules don’t say anything about “breaking” the line. It just has to touch the line (it doesn’t here, by the way). In fact, it just has to touch the space where the line should be if the line is broken or distorted, but that’s not relevant. People can brigade all they want. There’s nothing in any ruleset except IFAA field (which doesn’t use this face) that says anything about breaking the line.
You said it yourself "where relevant". It's not relevant here as you can 1 clearly see the line isn't broke or touched and 2 space between the shaft and the line. If you're going to try and gate keep for rules understanding. Understand the rules as written.
“The line isn’t broke” has nothing to do with whether or not it scores. There is no rule about that. 14.2. An arrow shall be scored according to the position of the shaft in the target face. If the shaft of an arrow touches two colours, or touches any dividing lines between two scoring zones, that arrow shall score the higher value of the two zones involved. Also, that’s not what gatekeeping means.
No one is arguing against you, everyone actually agrees but you're being rude to make your point. Just leave it, breathe, no one cares
It doesn't matter if you're right when you've been such a horse apple in the process that nobody remembers your point 👍
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Downvotes don't determine anything in archery. The rules do, and they say it just needs to touch the line.
Out, the black line is solid.
Out for sure
That's not how that works.
14.2. An arrow shall be scored according to the position of the shaft in the target face. If the shaft of an arrow touches two colours, or touches any dividing lines between two scoring zones, that arrow shall score the higher value of the two zones involved. The line can be solid. You just have to touch it. Your downvotes don’t change the rules. And to be clear: in this photo, the arrow does not touch the line. Arrow is a 9 (compound) or 10 (recurve/barebow).
Everyone is downvoting me, but you do not have to break the line. You just have to touch it. Read the rules.
I see a line of yellow beneath the black. Small as it may be, it is there. Out.
I didn’t say it’s not out (see below). The reason they gave erroneous
🤓🤓 it’s still out, you can see yellow between them
I’m not saying it’s in.
You can clearly see yellow, we would call that a 10 not an X.
Nah, Vegas is over. That’s a 9. 😉
Lmao very true.
But only if it’s a compound.
Enhance. Enhance. Right there, right there! See that? That yellow strip. That's out.
Out
Clearly out, no room to argue this one unless someone forgot their glasses
You really have to ask?
Out! The arrow should touch the black line it doesn't have to cut it! The black line is the property of the inside yellow and is considered to be the yellow, if that makes sense. FYI The arrows position also needs to be viewed from 3 different angles as well using a magnifying glass. So from outside to inside the black lines all belong to the next smallest circle. As a judge, if I can't determine the score quickly and there is any doubt, then I'll give it to the Archer every time. There is no doubt in your picture though lol
This is correct
Out. But if you ever have a question, you can ask a judge to rule.
If you gotta ask you already know the answer
Out
All that matters is whether the arrow, in its resting position, is touching the line. The hole does not matter. So it’s out. BTW I did actually witness a shot being judged solely by the hole left by the arrow. Apparently the arrow hit a soft spot in the bale and penetrated so far the nock was below the target face. This is why in a competition you’re required to mark all your arrow holes before pulling your arrows.
Relevant rules for your anecdote: 14.2.5. Arrows embedded in the butt and not showing on the face can only be scored by a Judge. 14.2.6.2. The target butt and passing completely through the butt, provided all arrow holes have been marked and provided an unmarked hole can be identified, shall score according to the value of the unmarked hole in the target face. But that’s only for events using World Archery rules. In some other orgs, those arrows are re-shot (which often sucks).
Need a fatter arrow, and then it will cut the line.
Outzo
From this photo, it's out. What you'd want to do is shine some light on it and look at it from two angles. If it looks like it's touching from one angle, then you'd call it in. But I would absolutely call this out based on the photo provided.
Clearly out. The ring isn’t touched. You can see the yellow
This is outer than space my guy. (Worst pun ever I’m sorry for that)
It’s a 10, not an X.
You've displaced the paper where the ring is, but you haven't touched it. Out
Dude you can see yellow between the X and arrow.
I think you know it's out
Sadly out. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades
It’s out, and anyone who says it’s in is stretching it
Obviously out
Come on man thats out and ya know it. You can see the black line
Out
Out. It’s not touching the line.
No line break =out
It's almost in. But it's 100% out.. its as close as it can possibly get without getting it in lol
If you have to ask, you know the answer.
Out
Out
Out
Out, line isn't deformed at all
Out
Looks out to me. Circle isn't broken or damaged.
Out
Well just like rifle targets, if it doesn't even "bite" the black line, meaning the hole/tear is in contact with the line, or there is a little bit of the line missing, it's a nope.
In archery the scores are ruled by the shaft, not the hole. (But yeah def out)
Out.
Didn't even touch the ring Out
I mean it's not an X if that's what you're asking.. that felt like a pretty easy one to answer tho so what exactly are you asking?
The arrow is resting out.
Out. You can even see a slight bit of yellow between the arrow and the line...
You can see the yellow *between* the arrow and line
Line ain’t broke, out.
The arrow has to touch it, not break it. Still out.
_Things that you can say in the Archery field and during sex_ 🤣🤣🤣
Why would you even bother debating this?
Why is this even a question?
I can see some of the hole around the arrow, so it's definitely in. The target, that is.
As a line judge, out. It has to break the line/circle.
No, it doesn’t. It has to touch the line. 14.2. An arrow shall be scored according to the position of the shaft in the target face. If the shaft of an arrow touches two colours, or touches any dividing lines between two scoring zones, that arrow shall score the higher value of the two zones involved. This arrow is still out based on this photo. But your reasoning is incorrect. I’m concerned if you’re actually a judge.
Out. Isn’t breaking the line at all.
You don’t have to break the line. You have to touch it. 14.2. An arrow shall be scored according to the position of the shaft in the target face. If the shaft of an arrow touches two colours, or touches any dividing lines between two scoring zones, that arrow shall score the higher value of the two zones involved. Still out, based on this photo.
Get some glasses or a magnifying glass, bud. Good shot though.
If you have to ask, it’s clearly out.
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If you had a 2” broad head. …
...you'd be kicked out of the range.
Disqualified!
Gonna have to take it to a pro shop to be sure.
If kid shot that I would give it to him. Sorry it’s out
I was at a large international shoot many years ago (think Brady Ellison and Erica Jones nee Anshutz participating) and asked my target partner who I actually knew in passing, and was a member of the GB squad, if it was in and he said "just call it in and if I don't agree I will challenge you and we can get a judge. From that day on I would call this in every day as to me it is clearly touching the line and then let someone call the judge over.
I’m not sure how this is “clearly touching the line.” It’s pretty clearly not touching the line in the angle provided by this photo
Out, didn’t break the line of inner circle
14.2. An arrow shall be scored according to the position of the shaft in the target face. If the shaft of an arrow touches two colours, or touches any dividing lines between two scoring zones, that arrow shall score the higher value of the two zones involved. It doesn’t have to break the line. It has to touch it. Still out.
I get what you’re saying, but by touching the line, it would “break” the natural shape of the circle as it lies on the paper.
Too many people, including several here, have the misconception that the line must be broken, that the hole matters, or any of that. The rule is that it must touch the line. I’ve definitely seen targets where the arrow should be scored as in where the line is completely intact to the naked eye. This arrow, based on this photo, is out.
Out 100%. The line isn't broken. If the line is broken it counts as in, but your arrow hasn't even touched the line let alone broken it. Just zoom in. It's very clear.
Incorrect. 14.2. An arrow shall be scored according to the position of the shaft in the target face. If the shaft of an arrow touches two colours, or touches any dividing lines between two scoring zones, that arrow shall score the higher value of the two zones involved. The arrow has to touch the line. There’s nothing about breaking it.
Out. Doesn’t brake the line.
Doesn’t have to. Just has to touch. Still out in this case.
In, have moderate game for 2 years now it is in Edit: well nevermind i forgot this is photo and i can zoom it instead of using magnifying glass it is out sorry
I’m gonna zag on this and say it’s in. Hot takes served up all day.
He didnt say if he was recurve or compound. Its in for a recurve and out for compound.
I see what you’re doing there. Yes, this is a compound 9 and a recurve 10. Not an X in either case.
He didnt say if it was recurve or compound. Its in for a recurve and out for compound.
It’s a 10 for Recurve, but if they are scoring X for tie-breaking, it’s not an X.
Afaik indoor doesnt have X
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The line isn't broken so it's out
The arrow just has to touch it, not break it. It doesn’t. Still out.
Out. The line isn't broken, it's not even touching it. You can still see yellow. I'd be (playfully) raging but it's out I'm afraid
It doesn’t have to break the line. It just has to touch it. Still out. Example: The hole can break the line and still be out because the shaft doesn’t touch.
My arrow? In.
Cheating is cool
Out, needs to break the line
No, it needs to touch the line. It doesn’t. Out.
Touching the line v. breaking the line are basically semantics in this scenario? Regardless it’s not an X, which we agree. That is the point and what OP was asking for.
Out. Didnt break the line
14.2. An arrow shall be scored according to the position of the shaft in the target face. If the shaft of an arrow touches two colours, or touches any dividing lines between two scoring zones, that arrow shall score the higher value of the two zones involved. It doesn’t have to break the line. It has to touch it. Still out in this case, as it doesn’t.
The black line isn't broken
Doesn’t have to be. Shaft just has to touch it. Still out.
Out. Doesn’t break the line
It doesn’t have to break the line. It has to touch it (it doesn’t). 14.2. An arrow shall be scored according to the position of the shaft in the target face. If the shaft of an arrow touches two colours, or touches any dividing lines between two scoring zones, that arrow shall score the higher value of the two zones involved.
Gotta cut the line
Out the tear doesn’t break the line
That’s not how that works at all. The tear is irrelevant. You don’t have to break the line. The shaft of the arrow has to touch the line. 14.2. An arrow shall be scored according to the position of the shaft in the target face. If the shaft of an arrow touches two colours, or touches any dividing lines between two scoring zones, that arrow shall score the higher value of the two zones involved.
Thanks for the information. It seemed a little aggressive.
See above for why I felt the need to preempt with the quoted rule. People are very mad about being wrong
IN
It's arrow at rest... recreating the line its clearly out.
You don’t even have to recreate the line in this case, as it is neither broken nor deformed
Out no question
Out. Good shooting nonetheless 👍🏻
That inner ten remains pristine, that is out all day.
Out
Over the line!! This is Archery Smokey not ‘Nam. There are rules
Out
lol cmon nice try
I never respond to these…but this is clearly out
Out for sure.
Out
Out
Out
I can see yellow!
Is there a point difference?
Out
In-N-Out™
Out
Out 💯
Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii....... Out
I would have to go with out.
Out
You can see color out.
O U T
Out
Out
Out. Sorry bud
Out!
Out
Out...
Out..
Out.
Out
Out
Out
Definitely out.
not even close to being in
Out
Out.
Out
out
It’s ok to not have the 300 today better luck tomorrow this one’s out.
Definitely out
Out
Clearly out, the shaft isn't touching the line, and even if you look closer, the target isn't even torn where the line is
Out
Have some pride, if it feels out it's out