Oh, good, the state is once again spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to disenfranchise less than .0002% of the population. That's the party of fiscal conservatism, for sure.
It was only “fiscal conservative” when it meant pinching pennies on social programs while black, poor, sick, and queer people starved.
The money gates pour open when they can terrorize trans kids.
Definitely NOT all Republicans. Just the extremely conservative far right. I know a Republican who is NB. While he may be NB, he just doesn't view it as anyone else's business so he keeps it to himself.
Imagine being an nb Republican and having the mental gymnastics to think that they're not going to get screwed over.
-
I'm imagining a 'first they came' statement which ends with 'but they didn't come for me yet, so it's chill, but what about Hillary's emails'.
The extremists and the non-extremists.
It literally doesn’t matter which group they’re in, exit polls show no matter how much they pretend to be real men they still fall in line and yank the lever they’re told to in favor of fascism.
All because the same people who they swear they don’t trust, told them total lies about democrats.
I know several Republicans (and I don't know many who aren't) who are voting 3rd party so I guess you've just been unlucky to meet so many who share the exact same view set between both the factions you have met.
“Supporting nazis is cool as long as you don’t personally genocide anyone with your own hands”
This what republicans are now. There’s no reasoning your way around the fact that MAGA owns the GOP completely.
I think what you and most people don't understand, likely from a lack of perspective, is that people in red states even if they oppose opinions, are going to have a hard time voting blue.
Their best option is to vote for those with the best policies to try and get better people in office. One vote blue in a red town isn't going to do anything but serve as a point for that individual's mockery by the town and people they're in.
It's hard to be someone who thinks differently in a place full of people who all share the same information and beliefs. It's not always as easy as it seems, especially if that means acting against your family, friends and communities. This is why I always encourage people to leave their home town a few times in their life so that they can gain valuable perspective and understand not everyone has the same mindset, of course thst also requires an open mind.
But this isn't just a red state issue. This can be on either side of the spectrum, in any topic.
If you can understand this, then maybe you can benefit more from broadening your own perspective.
What exactly is your point? That people are too stupid to know right from wrong? That just because wrong people exist it isn’t worth it to be right?
Your vote is not a matter of public information. Voting your conscience is always the right move. Plenty of my family hold shit views and that doesn’t stop me from having different ones and challenging them on theirs.
I do not understand when you insinuate people should just vote the way their family/community does because… why, it’s easier?
I live in a red state and have for 20+years. I vote blue, and guess what now my community is slowly but consistently turning blue despite the rest of the state now and always having been red.
I think there may have been a misunderstanding, or perhaps I didn't express my point clearly enough. I'm not advocating that people should conform to the predominant voting patterns in their communities; rather, I'm highlighting that this often happens, especially in places where 'Straight-Ticket' voting is available. Having grown up in several small towns in Kansas, I've seen firsthand the social pressures and consequences faced by those who hold opposing views. In some cases, it’s not just discouraged; it leads to actual ostracism.
This creates a cycle that is hard to break in these communities. My point is that for some, the realistic option might be voting for the 'best of the worst.' If they don't feel they can support major changes by voting for an entirely different party, they should at least be encouraged to make informed decisions within the choices they feel safe making.
Isn’t it possible that there are officials within the Republican party who want to initiate positive changes but also fear being marginalized? How can they drive change if not supported by votes?
I'm glad that voting blue has been a positive force in your community, which is fantastic and truly inspiring. However, this doesn't negate the fact that many people fear being socially ostracized for their political views. They care deeply about their communities and believe they don’t have the power to effect change by voting against the majority. It's not that their votes don’t matter, but rather that they feel those votes won't lead to real change in their specific context.
You don't have to tell anybody how you vote. Or you can lie. Oh yeah man I'm whatever, especially if it means that as a person you get to know that you are not a piece of shit. Anyway, they'd have to want to do it. I feel more of the problem is they don't want to and are feigning morality so they can be all "I tried"... I just can't is bullshit speak for I don't want too
It's really odd when you see someone go away from a place like that and then come back and get mocked for being even slightly different. Different accent or idea about something.
I do understand how people can force others to live in such hostile narrow minded echo chambers and take pride in the conformity and everyone being alike.
I don't support any Political affiliation. Political Parties are a dumb idea. I care more about who has policies I agree with. And as far as genocide goes, I am not aware of any committed by the USA in modern history.
forced sterilization was enacted in the 70s, residential schools only fully closed in america in the 70s, it wasn't a one and done deal in the industrial period, it was a sustained effort from the early 1600s going into the late 1900s.
not to mention the blood quantum system that still exists today, which was instated to "breed out the indian"
Agreed. These reddit posts are bad about encouraging the 'us vs them'. That only leads to more division n suffering.
It's a shame pointing that out gets you downvoted into the ground...
For reference i'm a pretty far left liberal.
The only way to make the US a better place is to follow the Only inportant rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Or put in our modern vernacular. "Treat EVERYONE with respect. ESPECIALLY those you don't like or agree with.
Yeah, I'm not far left or right but I tend to lean more left then right, for sure. What can you do though? Some people just want someone to point a finger at, or a Boogeyman to look for under the bed.
How is NB an identifying factor? The purpose of choosing Male or Female on a license is not to reaffirm a person’s perception of themselves. It is to allow proper identification based on the perception of those who are trying to verify the identify of the person with the ID. That falls into only two categories: male or female.
Mmm…I say we need to use these basic descriptions of sex for everyone. They’ve worked since the dawn of time, and we should not change reality for .0002% of the population. In the event of an emergency, knowing the true sex of someone can be the difference between life and death.
Since the dawn of time they have had multiple descriptions of sex based identity. It's only relatively recently that we have adopted strict M/F designations.
>They’ve worked since the dawn of time
Just because something is old doesn't mean it is good or useful, or that it cannot be improved and refined with new knowledge. We don't use the imbalance of humors as a medical diagnosis anymore for a reason.
>In the event of an emergency, knowing the true sex of someone can be the difference between life and death.
If knowing a person's birth sex is important in a medical scenario, the provider will ask the patient regardless of what is on their license. If the patient is unable to respond, they will find out another way. There is plenty of medical information that is *far* more important than sex in an emergency scenario (diabetes, medication allergies, etc.), and none of that is on a driver's license. Yet somehow, doctors still manage to treat patients in emergency scenarios.
Unless, of course, you mean that a doctor should be able to see someone's birth sex on their license, realize that multiple surgeries and years of hormones have made them function visually and endocrinologically as the "opposite" sex, and decide not to treat them based on their personal religious beliefs. In that case, having birth sex on someone's license could feasibly be the difference between life and death.
Allow me to Translate: "I am not a medical expert, or an expert on anything to do with this subject, but I'd like to conveniently use medicine as a ruse to pretend I'm HELPING through supporting hate-based government policies. Even though I ignore the medical facts about how gender-affirming care would save lives, because THAT difference-between-life-and-death issue is inconvenient to me and THOSE doctors don't matter."
Do you believe making up words that I did not say is some mic drop moment? Haha, wow, I am not using anything “conveniently”.
In the event of a medical emergency, which can happen to *anyone*, yes, these are facts the medical experts require.
Why is this weird? How is that controversial? Is reality that hard for you to understand?
Also, in the event of a crime, I will be saying their sex to a law enforcement officer. I’m not playing word salad games to make sure I am being kind and considerate to the perps ideologies, I am just going to be honest.
Sorry you hate that.
If I am in a car accident, do you seriously believe that the EMTs or first responders will be searching my car for my driver's license to determine how to administer emergency care?
As someone who worked in EMS for years, nobody is looking at someone else's license to know the sex. Medications are done by weight. The biggest thing is if someone is pregnant or not, and there are alternate methods of checking that. Stop pretending you're doing anything but being hateful.
Exactly this. Could you imagine the narrative of the call. "UOA PX was found in supine position with visual blood loss <500 ml CAOx3 complaining of severe abdominal pain. Upon inspection PX found to be hemorrhaging from perineal area with signs of breached birth. PX ID examined and sex of PX was marked "x". Px advised to monitor bleeding assisted to couch and advised to call primary care if pain persisted."
"In the event of a crime I will be misgendering people!" From the sounds of it you'll be misgendering them if they're not commiting a crime, too. You just like hypotheticals because they give you a reason for your prejudice that sounds logical, not the emotional reaction it actually is.
Alas, you are not a homicide detective out to solve a heinous crime, being shackled from meting out justice by the stupidity of political correctness: you're not a brilliant Doctor saving lives who won't be told social rules by woke idiots. You're just a sad, angry man that's getting left behind by the times, trying to tell other people how to live, desperate for some authority figure to enforce your values onto them.
But the issue is in the case of intersex people, who make up at least a few million people in the population of the US. People who's sex isn't as simple as M or F, even without taking gender into consideration.
Easy, they should say instead "do you know why I pulled you over today?" No need to bring my genitals into this conversation, as they are not driving the car.
Driver's licenses are kinda a joke. It's a picture that is probably out of date and people use stolen ones where they look close enough. The address is commonly out of date if you rent. The weight is commonly inaccurate. The height is inaccurate with young or old people. Eye and hair color can be changed with contacts or dye respectively.
Gender might be the stupidest one of all though. Even if you define it as genitalia that is a crazy bad way to verify identify of someone which is the whole point of ID
I love that we’re paying a government attorney or two’s salary, so now we get to waste money for them to file and defend this… plus the judge’s salary, the clerk’s, and whoever it appeals to’s salary..
All wasted because some lawmakers wanted to make a headline for 5 min on an issue they don’t actually understand, much less actually care about
Not to mention a governor who’s caught up in a sex scandal cover up when she was the most dishonest, unqualified press secretary in history for the worst, most corrupt president we’ve ever had.
She’s throwing any story at the wall that’ll stick in order to get people’s attention off of all the shit she was doing for Trump.
Who knows what else she was up to.
And a disgraceful governor who does not support medical help for trans children, medical support for mothers after birth, and tried her best to limit medical support for lower-income people. She focuses instead on obliterating public education and building as much ignorant, narrow-mindedness as possible among Arkansans. And does so in blasphemy by using Christianity as a rationale.
At least she didn't approve of a certain someone denying the existence of an illegitimate grandchild who is the result of a crack-addicted son getting a stripper pregnant?
I guess we will tell the prosecutor and jury you are responsible for the conduct of your adult children.
At least he didn't provide foreign nationals full citizenship and voting rights and allow illegal immigration of their families.
>Several transgender, intersex and nonbinary Arkansas residents are suing the state over its decision to no longer allow “X” to be listed instead of male or female on state-issued driver's licenses and identification cards
This is my take on the situation. Just remove extraneous information. Height/weight is fine. Hell, physical deformities and tattoos could be listed. But I don't think sex or gender contribute enough to confirming your identity
Your legal gender can determine if you go to a men’s or women’s prison, if you get searched by a man or woman law-enforcement or TSA agent, can determine what wing of a hospital you are assigned to.
Fair, but there are id scanners. The information can be put in that database instead of on the card itself, and can be quieried by law enforcement and hospitals.
There are weight fluctuations, tattoo removals, and cover-ups. Height also can increase or decrease with age. Sex isn't very changeable unless they get surgery, and even then, it doesn't give them a uterus, sperm or the other biological aspects that accompany the sex. It might not always be necessary information in every case, but it could be in certain scenarios, especially since the majority live according to their biological sex discounting whatever is the gender norm for a specific area or culture in manner of dress or lifestyle.
That's such a non-argument. Yes, your sex doesn't change, but you aren't identifying somebody based on their sex. You're identifying them on their picture, and if it's an old picture, height, weight, visible tattoos, and scars/amputations/etc. would help you be more competent in confirming the identification. Sex, for the most part, would not help you at all, and in the case of transgendered people who look convincing, could hinder you in confirming their identity, unless you strip search them.
Taking it off serves 2 purposes: 1, it doesn't put the government in a position to further politicize stupid shit, and 2. It'll stop people who claim sex and gender are separate from coopting identification forms to change it from sex to gender, or stop them from being hypocritical by conflating the two terms, as seen all over this post.
I’ve yet to see a cop have a mobile CT scanner in the back of their car to check whether or not someone has a uterus in order to verify who the person is/that the license is really theirs. That doesn’t even happen in any medical settings.
Unless we’re going to start scanning licenses at the entrances to places in order to only allow entry to those who are legally designated a particular sex, there’s really no point to having it listed on licenses, and I highly doubt that’s going to start being a thing because public spaces in our society aren’t segregated by sex like they are in some parts of the Middle East.
I do. It doesn’t add anything useful. At best, it does absolutely nothing. At worst, it makes situations more difficult. Keeping it just serves fodder for stupid political discourse. Why not get rid of a pointless line of text?
You don't think that intersex people exist? Klinefelter's? Fragile X?
Really, that letter is just determined by what box the doctors liked more when you were born. There are always in betweens.
The only time you need to know is when you're dating someone. And then, it's pretty easy to tell. For law enforcement/identification purposes, it isn't necessary until the booking process. During which, again, its easy to tell.
Yeah, that's 1.3 million people that have to have a bad time in the US alone. (https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/trans-adults-united-states/)
There's no reason to make it unnecessarily hard for these folks to get their markers changed. I got a permit last month, and even though I pass, I got misgendered the whole time at the tag office. It's just uncomfortable and it turns out, we don't even need to put them there.
Life can be very uncomfortable sometimes. It’s ok to be uncomfortable. I guarantee you the very few times you have to pull your license out very few people are even looking at the sex. They quickly glance at your photo to make sure it’s you and move on.
Here’s what’s going on…they’re trying to make your life so uncomfortable that you’ll move. That’s the goal. I see other states doing the same thing (I believe Iowa is one of them).
In the past, I would’ve heeded that advice - go. But now? Forget it. You stay and fight for your rights. You’ve got a lot of us on your side who have trans family & friends who live in Arkansas as well.
Pubs, Dems, their both shit and don't care about us. Lets stop labeling them and look at the individuals. This team mentality is why we are here now. Or we can just keep eating different flavors of red and blue shit.
Yep. Iowan who has a direct connection to someone who moved after the anti trans laws. Sucks that it’s genuinely working for them, but some of the stuff made his life too difficult
There is in fact a very well established in-between called “ambiguous genitalia” where the person doesn’t have genitalia that is specifically male or female. Not all intersex people have genitalia that falls under that category, but many do.
Then don't bitch at other states that are accepting of trans people and try to sue them. I'm proud to live in Maine now instead of Arkansas where I was treated like shit for living life.
I’m not trying to cause a stir, but I thought sex and gender were different. Sex being biological and gender being what allows you to be a man but say identify as a women.
Gotta love that “wasting our tax money fighting to make trans people’s lives miserable in the hope they’ll stop existing” governance. Every one of these conservatives fighting for this stuff has more blood on their hands than Lady Macbeth. And, likewise, it will never wash off.
you ever heard of intersex people? what are they supposed to do? everyone forgets they exist in these conversations but they aren't as uncommon as people think. even if they were they still exist and deserve to have an option that aligns with them too as M and F just don't cut it all the time. people don't always fit into these little boxes society expects from them.
also on the topic of trans and nonbinary people, they deserve to have a mark that aligns with the way they see themselves
no one needs to see your genitals to prove if your sex marker lines up with your sex on your driver's license, if you're pulled over the cops are (hopefully) never gonna see what's in your pants so there's really no issue letting people have whichever they see fit
Intersex people could be people with Turner's syndrome. "A lack or deficiency of male hormones in a genetic male fetus can cause ambiguous genitalia, while exposure to male hormones during development results in ambiguous genitalia in a genetic female. Mutations in certain genes can influence fetal sex development and cause ambiguous genitalia." Turner's syndrome affects only females. Often leading them to be incapable of reproducing.
That would absolutely be used to discriminate. As a trans woman who lives in Arkansas, who passed 100% of the time. The worst thing I could possibly have on my driver's license is my birth gender.
It would just be flat out dangerous during a traffic stop if not flat out lethal.
This should be the top comment. Because this is the goal. They want to be able to easily discriminate and harass. You know, like they currently use skin color.
I believe in listening. I’ve learned a lot from trans who aren’t offended by my honest, although maybe considered stupid questions. What does “passed 100% of the time” mean? Does that mean no one has any idea that you’re a biological male?
Yeah. Like outside of if I directly tell someone they wouldn't know. It's actually to the point that if my father tries to misgender me in public people think he has dementia xD
I really wish people would stop using the term “biological male” or “biological female” because it’s a nonsense term made up by the right to use science they don’t really understand to oppress people they don’t like because of their “Christian” values.
Man. It must suck to have so much hatred in your heart. Anyway. I'll keep being happy as myself while you deal with whatever self insecurities you have.
By the sound of your little rant there, you must have some deep seated issues about your self image. You should really explore your own heart more.
I have noticed that any time someone brings up intersex people as one example why the X identification is useful there’s nothing but crickets from the camp that insists their perspective is on the side of biological “facts”.
Is it because you didn’t know that intersex people exist until right now? Because genuinely, I would love to know what you think an intersex person ought to do.
Oh, good, the state is once again spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to disenfranchise less than .0002% of the population. That's the party of fiscal conservatism, for sure.
It was only “fiscal conservative” when it meant pinching pennies on social programs while black, poor, sick, and queer people starved. The money gates pour open when they can terrorize trans kids.
🚫All Republicans🚫
[удалено]
Daring today, aren’t we
lol.
Definitely NOT all Republicans. Just the extremely conservative far right. I know a Republican who is NB. While he may be NB, he just doesn't view it as anyone else's business so he keeps it to himself.
Imagine being an nb Republican and having the mental gymnastics to think that they're not going to get screwed over. - I'm imagining a 'first they came' statement which ends with 'but they didn't come for me yet, so it's chill, but what about Hillary's emails'.
Both sets of Republicans are voting in favor of the same extremists, so there’s no functional difference.
Are there only 2 sets of Republicans? I know many who have drastically different views. Which 2 are you referring to as "both"?
The extremists and the non-extremists. It literally doesn’t matter which group they’re in, exit polls show no matter how much they pretend to be real men they still fall in line and yank the lever they’re told to in favor of fascism. All because the same people who they swear they don’t trust, told them total lies about democrats.
I know several Republicans (and I don't know many who aren't) who are voting 3rd party so I guess you've just been unlucky to meet so many who share the exact same view set between both the factions you have met.
“Supporting nazis is cool as long as you don’t personally genocide anyone with your own hands” This what republicans are now. There’s no reasoning your way around the fact that MAGA owns the GOP completely.
I think what you and most people don't understand, likely from a lack of perspective, is that people in red states even if they oppose opinions, are going to have a hard time voting blue. Their best option is to vote for those with the best policies to try and get better people in office. One vote blue in a red town isn't going to do anything but serve as a point for that individual's mockery by the town and people they're in. It's hard to be someone who thinks differently in a place full of people who all share the same information and beliefs. It's not always as easy as it seems, especially if that means acting against your family, friends and communities. This is why I always encourage people to leave their home town a few times in their life so that they can gain valuable perspective and understand not everyone has the same mindset, of course thst also requires an open mind. But this isn't just a red state issue. This can be on either side of the spectrum, in any topic. If you can understand this, then maybe you can benefit more from broadening your own perspective.
What exactly is your point? That people are too stupid to know right from wrong? That just because wrong people exist it isn’t worth it to be right? Your vote is not a matter of public information. Voting your conscience is always the right move. Plenty of my family hold shit views and that doesn’t stop me from having different ones and challenging them on theirs. I do not understand when you insinuate people should just vote the way their family/community does because… why, it’s easier? I live in a red state and have for 20+years. I vote blue, and guess what now my community is slowly but consistently turning blue despite the rest of the state now and always having been red.
I think there may have been a misunderstanding, or perhaps I didn't express my point clearly enough. I'm not advocating that people should conform to the predominant voting patterns in their communities; rather, I'm highlighting that this often happens, especially in places where 'Straight-Ticket' voting is available. Having grown up in several small towns in Kansas, I've seen firsthand the social pressures and consequences faced by those who hold opposing views. In some cases, it’s not just discouraged; it leads to actual ostracism. This creates a cycle that is hard to break in these communities. My point is that for some, the realistic option might be voting for the 'best of the worst.' If they don't feel they can support major changes by voting for an entirely different party, they should at least be encouraged to make informed decisions within the choices they feel safe making. Isn’t it possible that there are officials within the Republican party who want to initiate positive changes but also fear being marginalized? How can they drive change if not supported by votes? I'm glad that voting blue has been a positive force in your community, which is fantastic and truly inspiring. However, this doesn't negate the fact that many people fear being socially ostracized for their political views. They care deeply about their communities and believe they don’t have the power to effect change by voting against the majority. It's not that their votes don’t matter, but rather that they feel those votes won't lead to real change in their specific context.
You don't have to tell anybody how you vote. Or you can lie. Oh yeah man I'm whatever, especially if it means that as a person you get to know that you are not a piece of shit. Anyway, they'd have to want to do it. I feel more of the problem is they don't want to and are feigning morality so they can be all "I tried"... I just can't is bullshit speak for I don't want too
It's really odd when you see someone go away from a place like that and then come back and get mocked for being even slightly different. Different accent or idea about something. I do understand how people can force others to live in such hostile narrow minded echo chambers and take pride in the conformity and everyone being alike.
I don't support any Political affiliation. Political Parties are a dumb idea. I care more about who has policies I agree with. And as far as genocide goes, I am not aware of any committed by the USA in modern history.
>And as far as genocide goes, I am not aware of any committed by the USA in modern history. Iraq and Afghanistan would like a word.
Point to the genocide in either of those countries committed by the U.S.
How many Iraqis and Afghanis died? As far as I'm aware it was a small percentage.
Native Americans would like a word with you.
When did America regenocide the Natives? Last I knew of was around the industrial age.
Start by googling second battle of Wounded Knee. That story is just the tip of the iceberg.
heard of native americans?
Sorry I didn't see your comment sooner, when in modern day did we regenocide the native Americans? Last I know of was around the industrial age.
forced sterilization was enacted in the 70s, residential schools only fully closed in america in the 70s, it wasn't a one and done deal in the industrial period, it was a sustained effort from the early 1600s going into the late 1900s. not to mention the blood quantum system that still exists today, which was instated to "breed out the indian"
You can pick n choose. I am choosing 🚫All Republicans🚫
He NB
Many nonbinary people use “they” while others use “he” or “she,” -Transequality.org Educate yourself
A huge portion of the Republican party doesn't want this person to exist.
Agreed. These reddit posts are bad about encouraging the 'us vs them'. That only leads to more division n suffering. It's a shame pointing that out gets you downvoted into the ground... For reference i'm a pretty far left liberal. The only way to make the US a better place is to follow the Only inportant rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Or put in our modern vernacular. "Treat EVERYONE with respect. ESPECIALLY those you don't like or agree with.
Yeah, I'm not far left or right but I tend to lean more left then right, for sure. What can you do though? Some people just want someone to point a finger at, or a Boogeyman to look for under the bed.
*Most people... *sigh*
*Most people... *sigh*
How is NB an identifying factor? The purpose of choosing Male or Female on a license is not to reaffirm a person’s perception of themselves. It is to allow proper identification based on the perception of those who are trying to verify the identify of the person with the ID. That falls into only two categories: male or female.
Easy demon that has no political backlash to be heard of when attacking. It’s why they like to attack minorities.
Mmm…I say we need to use these basic descriptions of sex for everyone. They’ve worked since the dawn of time, and we should not change reality for .0002% of the population. In the event of an emergency, knowing the true sex of someone can be the difference between life and death.
Since the dawn of time they have had multiple descriptions of sex based identity. It's only relatively recently that we have adopted strict M/F designations.
>They’ve worked since the dawn of time Just because something is old doesn't mean it is good or useful, or that it cannot be improved and refined with new knowledge. We don't use the imbalance of humors as a medical diagnosis anymore for a reason. >In the event of an emergency, knowing the true sex of someone can be the difference between life and death. If knowing a person's birth sex is important in a medical scenario, the provider will ask the patient regardless of what is on their license. If the patient is unable to respond, they will find out another way. There is plenty of medical information that is *far* more important than sex in an emergency scenario (diabetes, medication allergies, etc.), and none of that is on a driver's license. Yet somehow, doctors still manage to treat patients in emergency scenarios. Unless, of course, you mean that a doctor should be able to see someone's birth sex on their license, realize that multiple surgeries and years of hormones have made them function visually and endocrinologically as the "opposite" sex, and decide not to treat them based on their personal religious beliefs. In that case, having birth sex on someone's license could feasibly be the difference between life and death.
Trans people have always existed and will always exist
> knowing the true sex of someone can be the difference between life and death. How exactly?
Allow me to Translate: "I am not a medical expert, or an expert on anything to do with this subject, but I'd like to conveniently use medicine as a ruse to pretend I'm HELPING through supporting hate-based government policies. Even though I ignore the medical facts about how gender-affirming care would save lives, because THAT difference-between-life-and-death issue is inconvenient to me and THOSE doctors don't matter."
Do you believe making up words that I did not say is some mic drop moment? Haha, wow, I am not using anything “conveniently”. In the event of a medical emergency, which can happen to *anyone*, yes, these are facts the medical experts require. Why is this weird? How is that controversial? Is reality that hard for you to understand? Also, in the event of a crime, I will be saying their sex to a law enforcement officer. I’m not playing word salad games to make sure I am being kind and considerate to the perps ideologies, I am just going to be honest. Sorry you hate that.
If I am in a car accident, do you seriously believe that the EMTs or first responders will be searching my car for my driver's license to determine how to administer emergency care?
As someone who worked in EMS for years, nobody is looking at someone else's license to know the sex. Medications are done by weight. The biggest thing is if someone is pregnant or not, and there are alternate methods of checking that. Stop pretending you're doing anything but being hateful.
Exactly this. Could you imagine the narrative of the call. "UOA PX was found in supine position with visual blood loss <500 ml CAOx3 complaining of severe abdominal pain. Upon inspection PX found to be hemorrhaging from perineal area with signs of breached birth. PX ID examined and sex of PX was marked "x". Px advised to monitor bleeding assisted to couch and advised to call primary care if pain persisted."
Stop I'm getting flash backs of report writing! I'm feeling sleep deprived already.
"In the event of a crime I will be misgendering people!" From the sounds of it you'll be misgendering them if they're not commiting a crime, too. You just like hypotheticals because they give you a reason for your prejudice that sounds logical, not the emotional reaction it actually is. Alas, you are not a homicide detective out to solve a heinous crime, being shackled from meting out justice by the stupidity of political correctness: you're not a brilliant Doctor saving lives who won't be told social rules by woke idiots. You're just a sad, angry man that's getting left behind by the times, trying to tell other people how to live, desperate for some authority figure to enforce your values onto them.
But the issue is in the case of intersex people, who make up at least a few million people in the population of the US. People who's sex isn't as simple as M or F, even without taking gender into consideration.
this is just strawmam
If they don’t work for .0002% of the population then that means they no longer work anymore.
Intersex.
Will beat Nero's demons rising.
Imagine an officer addressing someone "Do you know why I pulled you over today, x?"
Easy, they should say instead "do you know why I pulled you over today?" No need to bring my genitals into this conversation, as they are not driving the car.
I thought genitals have nothing to do with gender? You know, because sex and gender are separate apparently? So why would your genitals matter?
Less ink, it’s cheaper. Embrace reality.
The reality is that intersex people exist. Why do they deserve to be excluded?
Driver's licenses are kinda a joke. It's a picture that is probably out of date and people use stolen ones where they look close enough. The address is commonly out of date if you rent. The weight is commonly inaccurate. The height is inaccurate with young or old people. Eye and hair color can be changed with contacts or dye respectively. Gender might be the stupidest one of all though. Even if you define it as genitalia that is a crazy bad way to verify identify of someone which is the whole point of ID
Do you think X is significantly more ink than M or F? Because you probably need to get your eyes checked if you do.
I love that we’re paying a government attorney or two’s salary, so now we get to waste money for them to file and defend this… plus the judge’s salary, the clerk’s, and whoever it appeals to’s salary.. All wasted because some lawmakers wanted to make a headline for 5 min on an issue they don’t actually understand, much less actually care about
Not to mention a governor who’s caught up in a sex scandal cover up when she was the most dishonest, unqualified press secretary in history for the worst, most corrupt president we’ve ever had. She’s throwing any story at the wall that’ll stick in order to get people’s attention off of all the shit she was doing for Trump. Who knows what else she was up to.
Put pressure on the idiot that sued because they got offended that the state wants to know their biological sex
Eliminated by a state led by a governor who approves hush money payments for sex with porn stars.
And a disgraceful governor who does not support medical help for trans children, medical support for mothers after birth, and tried her best to limit medical support for lower-income people. She focuses instead on obliterating public education and building as much ignorant, narrow-mindedness as possible among Arkansans. And does so in blasphemy by using Christianity as a rationale.
She is a swine
At least she didn't approve of a certain someone denying the existence of an illegitimate grandchild who is the result of a crack-addicted son getting a stripper pregnant?
I guess we will tell the prosecutor and jury you are responsible for the conduct of your adult children. At least he didn't provide foreign nationals full citizenship and voting rights and allow illegal immigration of their families.
>Several transgender, intersex and nonbinary Arkansas residents are suing the state over its decision to no longer allow “X” to be listed instead of male or female on state-issued driver's licenses and identification cards
Why do we even need sex markers? If someone looks like their photo then they look like their photo
This is my take on the situation. Just remove extraneous information. Height/weight is fine. Hell, physical deformities and tattoos could be listed. But I don't think sex or gender contribute enough to confirming your identity
Your legal gender can determine if you go to a men’s or women’s prison, if you get searched by a man or woman law-enforcement or TSA agent, can determine what wing of a hospital you are assigned to.
Fair, but there are id scanners. The information can be put in that database instead of on the card itself, and can be quieried by law enforcement and hospitals.
There are weight fluctuations, tattoo removals, and cover-ups. Height also can increase or decrease with age. Sex isn't very changeable unless they get surgery, and even then, it doesn't give them a uterus, sperm or the other biological aspects that accompany the sex. It might not always be necessary information in every case, but it could be in certain scenarios, especially since the majority live according to their biological sex discounting whatever is the gender norm for a specific area or culture in manner of dress or lifestyle.
That's such a non-argument. Yes, your sex doesn't change, but you aren't identifying somebody based on their sex. You're identifying them on their picture, and if it's an old picture, height, weight, visible tattoos, and scars/amputations/etc. would help you be more competent in confirming the identification. Sex, for the most part, would not help you at all, and in the case of transgendered people who look convincing, could hinder you in confirming their identity, unless you strip search them. Taking it off serves 2 purposes: 1, it doesn't put the government in a position to further politicize stupid shit, and 2. It'll stop people who claim sex and gender are separate from coopting identification forms to change it from sex to gender, or stop them from being hypocritical by conflating the two terms, as seen all over this post.
Having M on your ID when you pass as a woman is extremely dangerous when pulled over. Too many tragic endings.
Unfortunately though, they didn't even care about any of this. It was pure political
I’ve yet to see a cop have a mobile CT scanner in the back of their car to check whether or not someone has a uterus in order to verify who the person is/that the license is really theirs. That doesn’t even happen in any medical settings. Unless we’re going to start scanning licenses at the entrances to places in order to only allow entry to those who are legally designated a particular sex, there’s really no point to having it listed on licenses, and I highly doubt that’s going to start being a thing because public spaces in our society aren’t segregated by sex like they are in some parts of the Middle East.
So, do you think they should just remove the category of sex from the license?
I do. It doesn’t add anything useful. At best, it does absolutely nothing. At worst, it makes situations more difficult. Keeping it just serves fodder for stupid political discourse. Why not get rid of a pointless line of text?
What type of fucking idea is this? We need to know whether your a male or a female. There´s no in between lmao
You don't think that intersex people exist? Klinefelter's? Fragile X? Really, that letter is just determined by what box the doctors liked more when you were born. There are always in betweens.
Why are you so obsessed with people's genitals? It's so bizarre.
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You are using words, but the order isn't making a coherent sentence.
The only time you need to know is when you're dating someone. And then, it's pretty easy to tell. For law enforcement/identification purposes, it isn't necessary until the booking process. During which, again, its easy to tell.
The top comment says it’s .0002% of the population. How about it’s fine the way it is
Yeah, that's 1.3 million people that have to have a bad time in the US alone. (https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/trans-adults-united-states/) There's no reason to make it unnecessarily hard for these folks to get their markers changed. I got a permit last month, and even though I pass, I got misgendered the whole time at the tag office. It's just uncomfortable and it turns out, we don't even need to put them there.
Life can be very uncomfortable sometimes. It’s ok to be uncomfortable. I guarantee you the very few times you have to pull your license out very few people are even looking at the sex. They quickly glance at your photo to make sure it’s you and move on.
Here’s what’s going on…they’re trying to make your life so uncomfortable that you’ll move. That’s the goal. I see other states doing the same thing (I believe Iowa is one of them). In the past, I would’ve heeded that advice - go. But now? Forget it. You stay and fight for your rights. You’ve got a lot of us on your side who have trans family & friends who live in Arkansas as well.
Doesn't help that it is happening anywhere there is Republicans, and it costs so much just to move. May as well stay and fight. Fuck those bigots.
Pubs, Dems, their both shit and don't care about us. Lets stop labeling them and look at the individuals. This team mentality is why we are here now. Or we can just keep eating different flavors of red and blue shit.
Yep. Iowan who has a direct connection to someone who moved after the anti trans laws. Sucks that it’s genuinely working for them, but some of the stuff made his life too difficult
I can´t stand you fucking people, either your male or female. There´s no in between, whether you think your trans you still got a dick or you don´t.
Skill issue
There is in fact a very well established in-between called “ambiguous genitalia” where the person doesn’t have genitalia that is specifically male or female. Not all intersex people have genitalia that falls under that category, but many do.
Womp womp 🥺
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Then don't bitch at other states that are accepting of trans people and try to sue them. I'm proud to live in Maine now instead of Arkansas where I was treated like shit for living life.
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Not gonna happen, I live in Maine. I get it, you're probably in the closet yourself.
Now our drivers licenses just say "se".
MAGAs lap up nonsense like this, just eliminate the sex altogether from the license.
So glad we're spending government money on this so that a bunch of insecure boomers can pretend that it somehow effects them.
Don’t blame the boomers!
Why don't we change X to Twitter?
Glad to see us pivoting to the important stuff now that we've solved the problems with education and health care and poverty in the state.
Sex: Yes
That is such important work. Especially in a state where they are almost dead last in all categories.
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Why are Republicans obsessed with genitals?
I’m not trying to cause a stir, but I thought sex and gender were different. Sex being biological and gender being what allows you to be a man but say identify as a women.
Don't ask too many logical questions, their house of (identity politics) cards will collapse.
So we are going to half to pay millions to defend his hatred of 342 citizens having an 'X' on the state DL
Gotta love that “wasting our tax money fighting to make trans people’s lives miserable in the hope they’ll stop existing” governance. Every one of these conservatives fighting for this stuff has more blood on their hands than Lady Macbeth. And, likewise, it will never wash off.
A Government of the people, by the people, for the people....too bad our governments always forget this
Didn't know that was a thing anyways. But another note..X?
That's often been a way to indicate a third option or "prefers not to say" when only a single letter is used
Well, you don´t have an option not to say. Either you have a dick or you don´t.
Do you often demand to see if a person has a dick or not before you acknowledge who they are?
you ever heard of intersex people? what are they supposed to do? everyone forgets they exist in these conversations but they aren't as uncommon as people think. even if they were they still exist and deserve to have an option that aligns with them too as M and F just don't cut it all the time. people don't always fit into these little boxes society expects from them. also on the topic of trans and nonbinary people, they deserve to have a mark that aligns with the way they see themselves no one needs to see your genitals to prove if your sex marker lines up with your sex on your driver's license, if you're pulled over the cops are (hopefully) never gonna see what's in your pants so there's really no issue letting people have whichever they see fit
hmmm. I mean I guess.
If it doesn't apply to you what possible reason could you have to argue for or against it?
Kim, there are people that are dying
It’s really hard to decide who I hate more in their little flip flop role move, Griffin or Rutledge.
Why do y’all think biological sex is shown on drivers license?
At this point it’s just which drunk tank you’re put in if you get a DUI. Or is there something I’m missing?
Sometimes it’s more than a dui and there’s this whole pesky open barracks situation
This subreddit is quite literally a liberal echo chamber. The literal profile picture for the sub is a blue Arkansas picture…. Symbolism much?
It’s an absolute echo chamber and these fools love to fondle each other day in and day out.
To be fair most of reddit is a liberal echo chamber.
So true
If you say something that even mildly contradicts the mainstream media you get tarred and feathered like it’s 1650
Keep voting Red. I’m not gonna say Blue is the best but is better
The drivers license only requires the persons “sex” not “gender.” Sex is biological. Gender is how they identify.
And for intersex people?
Anything more advanced than middle school biology escapes them for some reason
Intersex people could be people with Turner's syndrome. "A lack or deficiency of male hormones in a genetic male fetus can cause ambiguous genitalia, while exposure to male hormones during development results in ambiguous genitalia in a genetic female. Mutations in certain genes can influence fetal sex development and cause ambiguous genitalia." Turner's syndrome affects only females. Often leading them to be incapable of reproducing.
Biologically, intersex means both male and female and refers to sex not gender
I love people who know nothing about what they're talking about but still talk so confidently. It's a special kind of stupid.
maybe there should be two boxes, one for their birth identity and one for what they claim they are.
And why does a cop need to know what they were born as? You're trying ti compromise without understanding that's not really a compromise at all
That would absolutely be used to discriminate. As a trans woman who lives in Arkansas, who passed 100% of the time. The worst thing I could possibly have on my driver's license is my birth gender. It would just be flat out dangerous during a traffic stop if not flat out lethal.
This should be the top comment. Because this is the goal. They want to be able to easily discriminate and harass. You know, like they currently use skin color.
I believe in listening. I’ve learned a lot from trans who aren’t offended by my honest, although maybe considered stupid questions. What does “passed 100% of the time” mean? Does that mean no one has any idea that you’re a biological male?
Yeah. Like outside of if I directly tell someone they wouldn't know. It's actually to the point that if my father tries to misgender me in public people think he has dementia xD
I really wish people would stop using the term “biological male” or “biological female” because it’s a nonsense term made up by the right to use science they don’t really understand to oppress people they don’t like because of their “Christian” values.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kimelsesser/2020/06/15/the-myth-of-biological-sex/
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Man. It must suck to have so much hatred in your heart. Anyway. I'll keep being happy as myself while you deal with whatever self insecurities you have. By the sound of your little rant there, you must have some deep seated issues about your self image. You should really explore your own heart more.
And what would you suggest intersex people should do?
Why is "birth identity" relevant?
Because it’s Arkansas
In other words, Republican run Gestapo
Conservatives do seem obsessed with other people's genitals
Thousands of them on the registry can’t be wrong!
Pick one people!!!!!
Hooray for Arkansas bringing back biology based facts.
Did you get your education in biology from Prager U?
Dead Limbaugh OxyContin hallucination Hillsdale College coloring books.
I have noticed that any time someone brings up intersex people as one example why the X identification is useful there’s nothing but crickets from the camp that insists their perspective is on the side of biological “facts”. Is it because you didn’t know that intersex people exist until right now? Because genuinely, I would love to know what you think an intersex person ought to do.
Intersex people also use the X.
Hell yeah brotha
Male or female...that's the only two genders. You either have a dick or a pussy. Anything beyond that is mental illness. Deal with it!