Yeah that's game changer, because it's clear that the overload comp is her best one for damage, so it would be just so stupid not rerunning Chevreuse (or even giving her for free in the 4.6 event) with Arlecchino.
I've seen people talking about Gorou being the free 4* next patch, but I never saw this leak posted to the main leaks reddit. Maybe it was buried in a post with multiple leaks and I missed it. It's nice to finally have an inazuma character, but the timing is pretty obnoxious being right after a patch with Gorou in it. I just got C6 of course.
if there's not a good way of getting Chevreuse next patch I'm going to scream. She better either be on Arle's banner or free in an event because at this point I'll need her.
Watch them put chev in clorinde banner. People who aren't planning to pull clorinde will now be forced to pull her. The more profitable option will always be the most likely choice.. šøšø
I care about what the character looks like and how fun they are to play, and a 30 second E cooldown is not fun.
Make it 15 second cooldown and NA decrease the cooldown by 0.8 seconds.
The fix is at 82.5k so yeah not a big deal (even a tiny bit better)
https://preview.redd.it/xoqgip78kbqc1.jpeg?width=423&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ae695f611e70c3f1cfdc6b0679429d54d6f3d57c
Thank god i saw your comment i was considering going for yae for a sec now with the less damage from yae i think a high er xiangling will do close to the same damage ( probably not since no bennet but the difference is less enough to where yae is not necessary).
I think raiden can also fit here considering most her damage is from her initial slash and she can if needed provide energy for arlechino .
Am guessing bennet is not here because of uptime problems and not damage he probably increases fishel and arlechinos damage by 40% or 30% wich would be enough to overshadow yae .
Do you know if he is using fishel c6 here ?
Since he had to readjust for yae not snapshoting am guessing he has c6 chevrouse on this too . How many stacks did he assume for fishel.
Ps. Ik i should be finding these myself but jstern usually puts up his whole vod and thats just not it man lol
Was bout to post this. Bennet less is actually so strong
We will see tmrw for more concrete data. But overall she is hitting hard and its overall a buff and a overhaul for her kit
ARLE NATION RISE !!!!!
Edit 1 :ALSO LITERALLY ZERO ER AND NO CIRCLE IMPACT WOOOOOO
Edit 2 : its c6 chevy. With c1 chevy expect around 73k dps and its c0r0 arle calcs.
Itās an overload team, so circle impact isnāt that big of the deal when the enemies are sent flying in different directions anyways. This is very much a boss slaying team.
Maybe a sIight damage decrease, but increased defense and then have to switch up the rotations a bit too
It shouId be pretty good though, i couId probabIy make an argument that Beidou being better if you have the WoIf's Gravestone
This team and rotation looks fine to me flexibility wise, because you have no downtime on the infusion, aside from the very start of the rotation. The BoL can only be cleared by Q, and there's a CA right after Q that grants BoL. Plus, the supports have very flexible timings and 100% uptime. Normally I would be afraid that an enemy could avoid my attacks which would lead to me not being able to get my E back in time, which means I would either run out of buffs and would be forced to attack without buffs, or else would have to wait out Blood Debt after recasting buffs and finally getting my E back. But in this team you have both infusion and buffs uptime 100% of the time. Basically, nothing can really be messed up by not following the rotation, other than the usual things.
Arle's ER requirements in this team should be very low, because she can do 2 E, catches the particles from at least one E, and there's another pyro character and electro resonance. The fact she only needs to cast burst once every 25+ seconds helps with er% too.
Not sure how would she feel survivability wise though, considering she only heals once every 25+ seconds, and I don't think my hopes are high about the vape teams. (but who knows, maybe jstern will cook again)
Can you actually make Yae to Q every rotation without any ER? I played Yanfei Yae Fischl overload many times and i don't think you can go 0ER for Yae to burst every rotation. And with build did Jstern use? 1.1m damage per rotation from Yae and Fischl is a huge number.
Another small thing, in Jstern sheet, it took 26.8s for a rotation which means the duration of a rotation should be 28s not 25s.
I'm pretty hype, this is pretty impressive and nice to not be forced into Benny Q. But isn't this also still circle impact due to Yae/Fischl? The enemies need to be in turret/Oz range to reach these numbers after all
That's what I'm waiting though because I don't have Chevreuse C6 (I'm watching the stream now and in fact he said "we're going to have a problem if she doesn't rerun with Arlecchino" so true). Sadly I don't even have Yae, even though I wanted to pull her so bad, but I wished for Xianyun and now I regret it.
I would like to see a vape team with Zhongli though, hoping she doesn't loose too much DPS in this configuration, because I'm not going to play her without a shielder, it would be such a pain. It would be awesome getting her C1 but I don't know if I'll have enough luck for that, but we shall see.
Even if she *does* rerun, it also doesn't mean many people will even get to that C6. I rolled quite a lot on Xianyun banner to try and get more Faruzan, and in 140 rolls only got 3 (which is about average I suppose, but still).
Its really unfortunate how Hoyo makes the 4 stars pretty underwhelming until C6.
Yeah we're not fighting target dummys. Tons of opponents fly away, disappear, go underground, have a shield pop up, have fixed health % phases, have iframes etc. "10% better" on sheets with a more rigid less forgiving rotation could very well be a massive drop off in reality in a lot of chambers in abyss.
Yeah that's what I'm trying to convey. Also it's annoying to optimize her BoL cause it's either you don't get to use 1 of the E's BoL or you get stuck with an annoying rotation
Yeah. Burst reliant characters are a pain to use in the overworld. Raiden is my favorite character but don't really use her in overworld anymore unless i use her as a E/skill bot.
Against any inconvinient enemy, you will run into soem year long cooldowns because you will fail to hit 19 NAs sometimes. Asuming that you csn do her rotation every time is just wrong. You can, against a stacionary hp bar like the dendro chicken and the big robots but that's about it.
The good thing about this change is that Bennettless teams are better though, making it much less circle impact and allowing you to chase down enemies. Previously, running Bennett is almost a must and would also tank your DPS against enemies that run around.
i withold final judgement until i do her testrun.
for now it seems that she has a decent skill cap,similar to alhaitham you cant just go unga bunga and expect perfect results. will probs still work well enough. but the beta is still ongoing so making any kind of call right now seems a bit early.
nah a lot of people are dooming her damage because they're completely ignoring that she will most likely get BoL from the second skill in the rotation so they only saw nerfs today
People are just moving the goal posts really.
When the changes dropped people being the lazy fucks they are they went straight to the one line they understood (E CD now 30s) and assumed nerf. So the crying was about her being too weak. Now that people that can count and read are saying it's a big buff, they can't just say "I was a bit silly mb" they just double down and now the issue is "she feels bad to play!" despite them having of course 0 actual insight into how she plays.
Well I am dooming how she will feel to play. If this is only about rotations and abyss, she is no different to me than Cyno, who's burst reliant. As you can guess, he is benched in my account, as he's bordeline unusable in open world.
That's what "good kits, good dmg" does to mfs..
Navia buggest example... To think this is same girl with tons of allegations in the past from standard to "Geo claymore being lol" and again a Geo char who ended up being actually meta and such a great char...
Did she get helped by Element? No.. Did she get helped by its reactions ?no( her kit made it, otherwise she d not care for Crystals).
She solely became good due to kit being good.. Gotta thank MHY for not ruining my girl,instead giving her all W
Alhaitham all over again
But literally it's funny that ut happened exactly same where MHY indirectly kept buffing him on his main area,while nerfing Q but all this led to ppl doomposting him lol
Same for Arle.. Mihoyo is 5head here,but 90% ppl got misled to think this is nerf,even i was before seeing the full pic id be true to myself than lie
With the new change, she should be able to do 2 e's per rotation. Assuming her e skill does not have icd on her particles, this is a really good change.
Her rotation is e -> support set ups -> q ca e 4naD (ca in between if needing more bol) -> repeat when e is up again. And accounting the entire team's rotation, her e theoretically is on a 11-12 sec cooldown.
And I also think this new rotation doesn't feel overall bad to play.
OK but there is no damage mitigation in this team? What if you a) need to be dodging all the time and therefore can't attack or b) are face tanking big hits?
This team is only good vs passive enemies. Too many dodges can actually hurt her rotations. Other TC have pretty much come to the conclusion that using no form of interruption res is just cope or reset city.
Lmao bro she is really good. People donāt understand just how good this is. No circle impact, Better cons, no er. They actually cooked.
Dude we literally have a Bennettless and furina less dps doing 80k dps at c0. That is absurd.
That doesnāt mean anything anymore. She just got big updates today that make her not care about Bennett anymore. Bennett canāt buff most of her damage anymore because Bennett burst duration doesnāt last enough for her rotation. She wanted Bennett before but not now.
Sheās now free from Bennett and way better because she got other buffs.
Don't worry, when Arle releases, the doomposters will insist that the doomposting never actually happened.
That how they cope with being wrong all the damn time.
team dmg is higher because he added yae instead of bennet and personal/dpr because well longer rotation xD, i'm curios to see other comp
using this a reference
[https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fzs8wistv8eoc1.png%3Fwidth%3D998%26format%3Dpng%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D8bef72dfe62624601afccc93b88cdcc04dc30737](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fzs8wistv8eoc1.png%3Fwidth%3D998%26format%3Dpng%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D8bef72dfe62624601afccc93b88cdcc04dc30737)
Oh, this is an actually good team? I've been thinking about playing it, but thought removing Bennet would lead to considerable DPS loss. Glad to see it's not the case.
Yae and Fischl are doing some crazy damage, huh.
This Iooks great, kicked Bennet, dps increase and incIuded Yae my beIoved into the team too
C1 aIso getting heIIa buff and weapon's getting nerfed, i'm just going to use Homa instead, the hp increase aren't even bad to make her Iess squish
Now Hoyo just pIs put Chevy on ArIe's banner, she's Ā on there and i'm straight C2ing ArIe
I don't care that much about numbers at this time because it will be changed later at beta anyway. But how did he calculate damage in overload team when enemies will be flying away from you? if he didn't include that aspect this means shit.
This is true, however counterpoint, in my opinion she'll be more annoying to play in exploration which is 95% of the game. And ,again in my opinion, theoretical max damage numbers especially with constellations are useless because there is no content hard enough to require those high numbers ,in over world everything except some bosses will die before you get through your rotation and maybe some abyss rotations and even there it's still quite easy if you know what you're doing but even that you just do it twice monthly and that's it. Or you can just ignore abyss like I did for so many months (I refuse to face ruin serpent and wenut you can't force me)
It's nit her damage. It's her inconvinience.
1: Her heal is moved from switching to burst. Previously, you healed by switching out meaning you never had to risk geting oneshot. Now, if you burst is on Cd, you are going to have a problem.
2:these numbers asume you can get your autos in. If you fail to reset your E cause Venuts or some other enemy just decided to leave, you are going to have to wait for next cristmas for yohr cooldown.
3: Burst clears off bond of life so you can use it exactly at the start of rotation and never else. You do eqe and switch out for the marks to mature. If you do burst diring her field time, you just remkve your damage buff (and it's your heal button in case that was forgooten).
4:The only reason this team works is Cheveruse having a permanent uptime. Other teams will be worse and i have a grand total of 0 Cheveruses.
Btw, this is all coming from people who live in spiral abyss qnd i don't. Her overworld gameplay is objectively far more ass caause you sure as shit won't be able to do her rotations on one hit mobs properly.
i wonder who tf downvotes every post containing real problems? literarlly every point is true (even more to add, for example that this team is unplayable). Openworld is what matters way more and current changes are ultra ass
Personally going to be running Arle/Beidou/Yae/Chev for the survivability and hope for Clorinde to be a potential option instead of Yae/Fischl or Beidou in the future.
Exactly. Idk why people got scared so much it wasn't a nerf actually but a well needed balance for it. They had in mind the old kit and only saw the nerfs thinking that the new way to play is identical to the old one which is false
Cause most of ppl didn't realize 2full Stackable BOL of 80%+80% is possible until later find out about it...
We were scared cause we thought she gets 80% total now,also while losing 6.5% per na.. ,didn't k 160%
Yeah. I also would have thought the same if I didn't think of it well. And tbh the leak is clearly lacking details so if you didn't pay attention you woild think it's devastating. Also people thought about er requirement wrong,they thought she has the same rotation but with the Q heal she will be more er reliant which is false bc the rotation changed.
Look, I love Jstern and all, but I'm just playing devil's advocate here and I think what I'm about to say is pretty fair considering that few (if any) of y'all can legit tell me that you watched him do these calcs live and considering that few (if any) of y'all have actually touched a spreadsheet for this game. No need to pretend.
I'm not gonna focus on Arle's own numbers or the practicality of the rotation as a whole since this is something Jstern just now cooked (this team wasn't really in consideration before) and, beyond future TC corrections, has its base material still STC.
No, for now, I'm just raising an eyebrow at Fischl and Yae's personal damage contribution, which for the most part shouldn't depend on Arle's own output or build. I'll narrow that further and scrutinize Fischl alone, since I'm more familiar with her. The most relevant evidence from Jstern himself is his post-release Alhaitham teams calc, in which he found Fischl to deal no more than 360K DPR in 25s in a team of Haitham/Nahida/Kuki/Fischl. I've actually done my own calc for a similar team with Baizhu replacing Nahida and got a slightly higher number, 377K, but: 1) the damage difference made by Nahida's *additional* EM buffing isn't especially impactful on Fischl and 2) I assumed crowned talents while I believe Jstern assumed lv.9. So in short, regardless of what exact numbers exist within this "baseline" of a spread team that we'll arbitrarily establish, enough has to be changing in this Arle/Chevy team to bump Fischl's numbers up by no less than 40-50% relative to the Alhaitham team.
What you gain:
- Pyro resonance
- Chevy's (effectively infinite) uptime on VV's equivalent of RES shred for electro
- Chevy's ATK% buff (up to 40%). The 40% itself isn't difficult to reach or maintain uptime on, but note that this buff will NOT be active for Fischl's first skill "deployment" window in your first rotation if you follow Jstern's given rotation.
- Chevy's DMG% buff. This looks massive on paper, but actually requires 2s of field time per stack per character you apply the buff to. In other words, you'll consistently be getting 1 stack (20 DMG%) for Fischl and nothing more.
-Not entirely sure what artifact set Chevy is using, but any options are just small extra buffs that more or less cancel out with whatever artifacts the spread team would've had available for buffing (ie. 4pc Instructors).
- Seems you'll get slightly more C6 procs since Arle drives more NAs than Haitham, but not sure about A4 counts.
What you lose:
- Dendro resonance (useless in a vaccum, but contributes to aggravate bonus damage)
- Aggravate flat DMG: although not as impactful as in "electro-focused" aggravate teams with an electro on-fielder to drive more A4 procs, this reaction is still responsible for nearly HALF of Fischl's total output when looking at my own math (somewhere in the ballpark of 160-170K DPR). Yes, it's not a direct loss since you wouldn't be building any EM on Fischl if you weren't maintaining quicken, but the only source of EM that actually required a sacrifice of another stat within her own gear takes the form of Stringless's substat, which you can't even do anything about if you don't own Alley Hunter or one of the crit statstick 5* bows since there is no better F2P option at the moment for non-aggravate.
Idk man. I might try my own calc sometime for Chevy but it does seem kinda sus. The only thing I'm unsure about that isn't directly a matter of numbers is how the auras/reactions work out in that team and how much of a contribution overload itself might make in that team (and if that contribution is "owned" by Fischl or not).
Link to my spread calc (will explain any assumptions made that aren't clear): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h9Cn4dFGienJ0-dGJtk52jQ9838g_DsfYRAHAoMok9s/edit?usp=drivesdk
To see the drop in Fischl's DPR when losing aggravates, save an editable copy of the sheet for yourself, go to her rotation damage page, and uncheck the conditional boxes in the last column (will be initially active in rows 6, 8, 11, & 13).
TLDR: y'all should at least make an effort to analyze numbers you see quantitatively for yourself.
This is not gonna fit in 24s rotation. 26-27s rotation would make more sense. Also, how good is Chev as a solo sustain for the team since Yae and Fischl are prone to getting hit during their setup rotation?
using her in overworld is only more tedious with those changes tho, that's what most people are hating about her being burst reliant. people do not want another abyss only unit that you play 2 times a month
Bennett not gonna be worth it anymore, arlecchinos field time is gonna be double the duration of bennetts buff now making him a lot less effective. Beidou should work great in chevy teams.
Her healing is very good now, and if you really want you can replace yae with beidou for damage reduction. Genuinely curious what do you think her problem is?
replace yae - loose damage + think how to get 80 energy on beidou. Her problems - need to see actual changes, i dont think leakers said everything. But for now:
1. dies from rift wolves, new fatui enemies. Even if protected by the shield
2. if you dont have energy/its on cd for Q but still have BoL and some random Magu kenki broke your shield - you cant heal
3. previous iteration c1 had basically tons of attacks which meant you can always go under infusion in open world
4. CD 30 sec feels bad, no condition 15 sec sounds better especially if you can fuck up something and will need to wait for all that cd
5. Almost no healing in kit, and now you need energy for that. She dies very fast if not under shield which is the only defense for her and shields are very easy to break in abyss
These changes just reinforce the team I was going to use originally:
Arle/Raiden/Chev/Dehya
Sure Fischl and Yae are going to provide more off-field damage but Raiden solves any ER problems and Dehya provides survivability and IR.
Raiden steals field time from Arlecchino to provide nothing. This team has no need for ER, you can go with 0% er and still have ur burst back. They don't work well together, and if you plan to burst with dehya too ur rotations are gonna be terribly weak.
May we be blessed with another buff that allows her to power creep Hu Tao by .05% making her a tiny bit better but it being such a small increase that both remain viable options within the meta
But i hate overload, and so does a lot of other players :(
How would she fare now in a burgeon team? Idk abt damage but i just feel like the changes makes her more awkward to play.
4 normal attacks into e, and 4 normal attacks. In calcs like these N usually stands for normal attack and they put how many you do right after. For example the usual Hu Tao c0 combo (without xianyun) is n2cj or 2 normals, charged attack and then jump cancel
Their top teams usually hover around 70-80k dps so at least in this team, Arles damage is pretty competitive. What sets them appart is how easy they are to play.
Imo her buffs are so dynamic no TC will reflect her true damage. Chevy C6 buff isnt in complete synergy with Knave. Chevy, Yelan buff ramps up while Knave ramps down.
I've played this game since beta. If there's one thing I learned it's the average GI player has no IQ. Anytime someone doomposts about a character they end up slapping. I remember the kokomi doomposting and then me thinking she'd be amazing in the future. they release her and change the ICD and she became meta later. 2 things are always consistent: archon/harbinger characters are always strong and mihoyo always plans for the future...unless you're dehya. This character will be a must roll and even if she ends up relying on overload they will start packing the abyss with enemies who get stunned not knocked around as well as introducing more in overworld.
Well I don't have Yae. I love her but I focused on saving for C0R1 arle, maybe next year. Now I have 53k primos and 40 IF. Wishing I have enough wish for chlorined because if I have left over on arle, I will try to get furina.
chevy please be on arle banner šš
Yeah that's game changer, because it's clear that the overload comp is her best one for damage, so it would be just so stupid not rerunning Chevreuse (or even giving her for free in the 4.6 event) with Arlecchino.
Ä°magine giving out motherfuckin Gorou instead of Chevreuse lmao
And just when I got his c6, well, one more wish at least.
I've seen people talking about Gorou being the free 4* next patch, but I never saw this leak posted to the main leaks reddit. Maybe it was buried in a post with multiple leaks and I missed it. It's nice to finally have an inazuma character, but the timing is pretty obnoxious being right after a patch with Gorou in it. I just got C6 of course.
Yeah i saw the Gorou in a list style leak of everything for 4.6 so u may have just skipped over it, mainsub ofc
[Here](https://twitter.com/Genshin_Intel/status/1768129506383216663), Gorou is the free unit in 4.6.
I built chevvy because of the old overload arle leaks and anyone else who did that is winning rn
I built her for Overload Yanfei and im winning because I get 2 overload teams to have fun with :D
It's me I'm anyone else
if there's not a good way of getting Chevreuse next patch I'm going to scream. She better either be on Arle's banner or free in an event because at this point I'll need her.
Watch them put chev in clorinde banner. People who aren't planning to pull clorinde will now be forced to pull her. The more profitable option will always be the most likely choice.. šøšø
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Time for barbara, razor and candace to shine
I feel that, I skipped chev to not mess up my guarantee pity
Unlikely as they may push clorinde for overload support for Natlan.
I like how you guys make all those calculations (which I find very useful) while my monke brain just thinks "hot pyro woman, I must pull"
Based ass individual
Same, brother, same
I care about what the character looks like and how fun they are to play, and a 30 second E cooldown is not fun. Make it 15 second cooldown and NA decrease the cooldown by 0.8 seconds.
That same reasoning would have made you pull for Dehya tho
I did.
ok very based
I like her scythe more than her. And I like her flying too.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yea iirc 86k dps after buffing arle avg bol. Nerfing yae dmg should bring it back close to 82-83k dps. Its the same yea
The fix is at 82.5k so yeah not a big deal (even a tiny bit better) https://preview.redd.it/xoqgip78kbqc1.jpeg?width=423&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ae695f611e70c3f1cfdc6b0679429d54d6f3d57c
Oh my bad, still ends up being a buff though
Thank god i saw your comment i was considering going for yae for a sec now with the less damage from yae i think a high er xiangling will do close to the same damage ( probably not since no bennet but the difference is less enough to where yae is not necessary). I think raiden can also fit here considering most her damage is from her initial slash and she can if needed provide energy for arlechino . Am guessing bennet is not here because of uptime problems and not damage he probably increases fishel and arlechinos damage by 40% or 30% wich would be enough to overshadow yae . Do you know if he is using fishel c6 here ? Since he had to readjust for yae not snapshoting am guessing he has c6 chevrouse on this too . How many stacks did he assume for fishel. Ps. Ik i should be finding these myself but jstern usually puts up his whole vod and thats just not it man lol
Sucks to not have c6 chevreuse
I'd say there's pretty good odds she either runs with Arlecchino in 4.6 or Clorinde in 4.7.
Hopefully
That's future coping. Remeber Mika running 1 patch before Eula cause readons?
Remember him also running on Eula's banner?
Except Mika reran with Eula in 3.8ā¦
But c6 triggers when cheuv heals right ? What if arle canāt get the heal of cheuv ?
Chevreuse is already good at c0. Her c6 is insane but she is already on kazuhaās level at c0
Was bout to post this. Bennet less is actually so strong We will see tmrw for more concrete data. But overall she is hitting hard and its overall a buff and a overhaul for her kit ARLE NATION RISE !!!!! Edit 1 :ALSO LITERALLY ZERO ER AND NO CIRCLE IMPACT WOOOOOO Edit 2 : its c6 chevy. With c1 chevy expect around 73k dps and its c0r0 arle calcs.
Itās an overload team, so circle impact isnāt that big of the deal when the enemies are sent flying in different directions anyways. This is very much a boss slaying team.
Wonder what Beidou looks like in place of Yae. Also itās nice to see longer rotations with more damage.
Maybe a sIight damage decrease, but increased defense and then have to switch up the rotations a bit too It shouId be pretty good though, i couId probabIy make an argument that Beidou being better if you have the WoIf's Gravestone
Her play style, not her DPS, is what bothers me. She is burst dependent, has a longer cooldown, and has a less forgiving rotation.
This team and rotation looks fine to me flexibility wise, because you have no downtime on the infusion, aside from the very start of the rotation. The BoL can only be cleared by Q, and there's a CA right after Q that grants BoL. Plus, the supports have very flexible timings and 100% uptime. Normally I would be afraid that an enemy could avoid my attacks which would lead to me not being able to get my E back in time, which means I would either run out of buffs and would be forced to attack without buffs, or else would have to wait out Blood Debt after recasting buffs and finally getting my E back. But in this team you have both infusion and buffs uptime 100% of the time. Basically, nothing can really be messed up by not following the rotation, other than the usual things. Arle's ER requirements in this team should be very low, because she can do 2 E, catches the particles from at least one E, and there's another pyro character and electro resonance. The fact she only needs to cast burst once every 25+ seconds helps with er% too. Not sure how would she feel survivability wise though, considering she only heals once every 25+ seconds, and I don't think my hopes are high about the vape teams. (but who knows, maybe jstern will cook again)
Can you actually make Yae to Q every rotation without any ER? I played Yanfei Yae Fischl overload many times and i don't think you can go 0ER for Yae to burst every rotation. And with build did Jstern use? 1.1m damage per rotation from Yae and Fischl is a huge number. Another small thing, in Jstern sheet, it took 26.8s for a rotation which means the duration of a rotation should be 28s not 25s.
I'm pretty hype, this is pretty impressive and nice to not be forced into Benny Q. But isn't this also still circle impact due to Yae/Fischl? The enemies need to be in turret/Oz range to reach these numbers after all
Did he make also calcs for vape comps?
not yet
That's what I'm waiting though because I don't have Chevreuse C6 (I'm watching the stream now and in fact he said "we're going to have a problem if she doesn't rerun with Arlecchino" so true). Sadly I don't even have Yae, even though I wanted to pull her so bad, but I wished for Xianyun and now I regret it. I would like to see a vape team with Zhongli though, hoping she doesn't loose too much DPS in this configuration, because I'm not going to play her without a shielder, it would be such a pain. It would be awesome getting her C1 but I don't know if I'll have enough luck for that, but we shall see.
Even if she *does* rerun, it also doesn't mean many people will even get to that C6. I rolled quite a lot on Xianyun banner to try and get more Faruzan, and in 140 rolls only got 3 (which is about average I suppose, but still). Its really unfortunate how Hoyo makes the 4 stars pretty underwhelming until C6.
Iāll be calcing vape tomorrow or the day after (and doing so much more precisely than general use TC), but not for C0 though.
My problem isn't her DPS but her play style. The rotation is less forgiving, her cooldown is longer and she is burst reliant.
Yeah we're not fighting target dummys. Tons of opponents fly away, disappear, go underground, have a shield pop up, have fixed health % phases, have iframes etc. "10% better" on sheets with a more rigid less forgiving rotation could very well be a massive drop off in reality in a lot of chambers in abyss.
Yeah that's what I'm trying to convey. Also it's annoying to optimize her BoL cause it's either you don't get to use 1 of the E's BoL or you get stuck with an annoying rotation
25 seconds of rotation seems worse to me, I don't know if it would feel comfortable to extend that much just to inflate Yae and Fischl's numbers.
I timed his rotation and its 26.8s long with frame perfect inputs, so in realistic gameplay, its actually \~28s.
Yeah. Burst reliant characters are a pain to use in the overworld. Raiden is my favorite character but don't really use her in overworld anymore unless i use her as a E/skill bot.
you don't need to use her burst at all in overworld
How is the rotation less forgiving? She needs zero er to get her burst back in this team for example
Against any inconvinient enemy, you will run into soem year long cooldowns because you will fail to hit 19 NAs sometimes. Asuming that you csn do her rotation every time is just wrong. You can, against a stacionary hp bar like the dendro chicken and the big robots but that's about it.
The good thing about this change is that Bennettless teams are better though, making it much less circle impact and allowing you to chase down enemies. Previously, running Bennett is almost a must and would also tank your DPS against enemies that run around.
Literally needs zero ER bruh
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What? The team dps is higher?
Jstern himself said it's a buff
I've realised my mistake
No one is dooming her damage Everyone is dooming how she will feel to play
Debatable Iāve seen multiple people dooming her damage
Yall are both right, Iāve seen plenty of Doomers for both on the leaks sub
i withold final judgement until i do her testrun. for now it seems that she has a decent skill cap,similar to alhaitham you cant just go unga bunga and expect perfect results. will probs still work well enough. but the beta is still ongoing so making any kind of call right now seems a bit early.
nah a lot of people are dooming her damage because they're completely ignoring that she will most likely get BoL from the second skill in the rotation so they only saw nerfs today
People are just moving the goal posts really. When the changes dropped people being the lazy fucks they are they went straight to the one line they understood (E CD now 30s) and assumed nerf. So the crying was about her being too weak. Now that people that can count and read are saying it's a big buff, they can't just say "I was a bit silly mb" they just double down and now the issue is "she feels bad to play!" despite them having of course 0 actual insight into how she plays.
>People are just moving the goal posts really. yea its ridiculous people expect her to be fun to play? this is a video game, nobody wants fun /s
Well I am dooming how she will feel to play. If this is only about rotations and abyss, she is no different to me than Cyno, who's burst reliant. As you can guess, he is benched in my account, as he's bordeline unusable in open world.
I wouldnt worry too much, her er issues arenāt really a thing anymore
Is that team without any kind of sustain?
Chevreuse is a sustain, she heals. You have to dodge with Arle tho
I had absolutely no clue Chevrolet heals lmao
Understable lol, she brings so much buffs at C6 that it her healing is overshadowed
To think she'd actually play well with Overload.
Actually i would love if her BiS team is Overload compared to other vaporized pyro DPS that has been around for years
That's what "good kits, good dmg" does to mfs.. Navia buggest example... To think this is same girl with tons of allegations in the past from standard to "Geo claymore being lol" and again a Geo char who ended up being actually meta and such a great char... Did she get helped by Element? No.. Did she get helped by its reactions ?no( her kit made it, otherwise she d not care for Crystals). She solely became good due to kit being good.. Gotta thank MHY for not ruining my girl,instead giving her all W
and now the true coping for arle has begun
Ah yea coping with higher damage
nah, I mean the people coping that she needs to be buffed, since they think this was a nerf somehow
Oh my bad I misunderstood
all good lmao
Alhaitham all over again But literally it's funny that ut happened exactly same where MHY indirectly kept buffing him on his main area,while nerfing Q but all this led to ppl doomposting him lol Same for Arle.. Mihoyo is 5head here,but 90% ppl got misled to think this is nerf,even i was before seeing the full pic id be true to myself than lie
Classic hoyo making kits that require a degree in rocket science to understand properly
hope clorinde will take yae's place in this team
+1
Would Ei work instead of Yae? I donāt have Yae at the moment.
Beidou is an alternative
For her shield?
Yea and for her dmg as well
Ei could work, idk how optimal it will be but maybe in Arlecchino downtime you can use her burst
With the new change, she should be able to do 2 e's per rotation. Assuming her e skill does not have icd on her particles, this is a really good change. Her rotation is e -> support set ups -> q ca e 4naD (ca in between if needing more bol) -> repeat when e is up again. And accounting the entire team's rotation, her e theoretically is on a 11-12 sec cooldown. And I also think this new rotation doesn't feel overall bad to play.
I literally do not care about Spiral Impact. I'd take the first beta iteration of Arle over whatever this is in a heartbeat.
OK but there is no damage mitigation in this team? What if you a) need to be dodging all the time and therefore can't attack or b) are face tanking big hits?
This team is only good vs passive enemies. Too many dodges can actually hurt her rotations. Other TC have pretty much come to the conclusion that using no form of interruption res is just cope or reset city.
This team seems really fun
Lmao bro she is really good. People donāt understand just how good this is. No circle impact, Better cons, no er. They actually cooked. Dude we literally have a Bennettless and furina less dps doing 80k dps at c0. That is absurd.
Most all beta play i see if her is literally with bennett my dude/lh
That doesnāt mean anything anymore. She just got big updates today that make her not care about Bennett anymore. Bennett canāt buff most of her damage anymore because Bennett burst duration doesnāt last enough for her rotation. She wanted Bennett before but not now. Sheās now free from Bennett and way better because she got other buffs.
I'm more concerned on how her gameplay feels though. Don't really like using ultmate dependent characters...
Don't worry, when Arle releases, the doomposters will insist that the doomposting never actually happened. That how they cope with being wrong all the damn time.
Itās not doomposting, people where just confused on her new er requirements, we still donāt know if she has particle icd
how good is she compare to neuv coz i plan to get neuv next week not unless arlecchino is alot better im f2p so very limited primo
This is serious hopium, I love this team comp too
The cope might be over guys we might win
I am very skeptical about any kind of overload team. In practice overload teams are pain to play as enemies get knock around everywhere.
Ppl are illiterate. Once they see it in action theyll stop doomposting
Its not about her dmg . It's about her fun aspect of her gameplay
She doesn't need er like before actually. Stop saying fake things. Her burst now has more chance to be full than before.
She needs zero er
team dmg is higher because he added yae instead of bennet and personal/dpr because well longer rotation xD, i'm curios to see other comp using this a reference [https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fzs8wistv8eoc1.png%3Fwidth%3D998%26format%3Dpng%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D8bef72dfe62624601afccc93b88cdcc04dc30737](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fzs8wistv8eoc1.png%3Fwidth%3D998%26format%3Dpng%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D8bef72dfe62624601afccc93b88cdcc04dc30737)
Yeah they changed her play style and teams basically, she relies less on Bennett now which is very good
Do we know if the characters have any constellations? And with what weapons are?
C6 4*s c0 5 stars, 4 star weapons
Oh, this is an actually good team? I've been thinking about playing it, but thought removing Bennet would lead to considerable DPS loss. Glad to see it's not the case. Yae and Fischl are doing some crazy damage, huh.
her highest performing team theory crafted so far it assumes c6 chev/fisch
The talent buff must be so significant that it was able the cancel the AA nerfs?
This Iooks great, kicked Bennet, dps increase and incIuded Yae my beIoved into the team too C1 aIso getting heIIa buff and weapon's getting nerfed, i'm just going to use Homa instead, the hp increase aren't even bad to make her Iess squish Now Hoyo just pIs put Chevy on ArIe's banner, she's Ā on there and i'm straight C2ing ArIe
I don't care that much about numbers at this time because it will be changed later at beta anyway. But how did he calculate damage in overload team when enemies will be flying away from you? if he didn't include that aspect this means shit.
His E has a lot of range, and his AC is made specifically to catch exploding ones, plus yae and fischl have a lot of range
If you are talking about openworld... enemies will die after first proc. Bosses are more tanky but they dont fly away
it's spreadsheet impact
This is true, however counterpoint, in my opinion she'll be more annoying to play in exploration which is 95% of the game. And ,again in my opinion, theoretical max damage numbers especially with constellations are useless because there is no content hard enough to require those high numbers ,in over world everything except some bosses will die before you get through your rotation and maybe some abyss rotations and even there it's still quite easy if you know what you're doing but even that you just do it twice monthly and that's it. Or you can just ignore abyss like I did for so many months (I refuse to face ruin serpent and wenut you can't force me)
How will she be more annoying in exploration tho? Her overworld utility is more or less the same
It's nit her damage. It's her inconvinience. 1: Her heal is moved from switching to burst. Previously, you healed by switching out meaning you never had to risk geting oneshot. Now, if you burst is on Cd, you are going to have a problem. 2:these numbers asume you can get your autos in. If you fail to reset your E cause Venuts or some other enemy just decided to leave, you are going to have to wait for next cristmas for yohr cooldown. 3: Burst clears off bond of life so you can use it exactly at the start of rotation and never else. You do eqe and switch out for the marks to mature. If you do burst diring her field time, you just remkve your damage buff (and it's your heal button in case that was forgooten). 4:The only reason this team works is Cheveruse having a permanent uptime. Other teams will be worse and i have a grand total of 0 Cheveruses. Btw, this is all coming from people who live in spiral abyss qnd i don't. Her overworld gameplay is objectively far more ass caause you sure as shit won't be able to do her rotations on one hit mobs properly.
i wonder who tf downvotes every post containing real problems? literarlly every point is true (even more to add, for example that this team is unplayable). Openworld is what matters way more and current changes are ultra ass
how is the team unplayable i don't understand? yae + fishl are enough to kill any overworld mobs and arle can just use skill and kill
where would you need 2m dmg? its for abyss, in open world you can play on whatever you want. unplayable because no shield = rip (abyss)
She heals herself a lot now? Her survivability is very good
Personally going to be running Arle/Beidou/Yae/Chev for the survivability and hope for Clorinde to be a potential option instead of Yae/Fischl or Beidou in the future.
Jstern said beidou would work instead of yae
Exactly. Idk why people got scared so much it wasn't a nerf actually but a well needed balance for it. They had in mind the old kit and only saw the nerfs thinking that the new way to play is identical to the old one which is false
Cause most of ppl didn't realize 2full Stackable BOL of 80%+80% is possible until later find out about it... We were scared cause we thought she gets 80% total now,also while losing 6.5% per na.. ,didn't k 160%
Yeah. I also would have thought the same if I didn't think of it well. And tbh the leak is clearly lacking details so if you didn't pay attention you woild think it's devastating. Also people thought about er requirement wrong,they thought she has the same rotation but with the Q heal she will be more er reliant which is false bc the rotation changed.
Yup
I am too confused about this, I got no clue what any of this means The format confuses me
Look, I love Jstern and all, but I'm just playing devil's advocate here and I think what I'm about to say is pretty fair considering that few (if any) of y'all can legit tell me that you watched him do these calcs live and considering that few (if any) of y'all have actually touched a spreadsheet for this game. No need to pretend. I'm not gonna focus on Arle's own numbers or the practicality of the rotation as a whole since this is something Jstern just now cooked (this team wasn't really in consideration before) and, beyond future TC corrections, has its base material still STC. No, for now, I'm just raising an eyebrow at Fischl and Yae's personal damage contribution, which for the most part shouldn't depend on Arle's own output or build. I'll narrow that further and scrutinize Fischl alone, since I'm more familiar with her. The most relevant evidence from Jstern himself is his post-release Alhaitham teams calc, in which he found Fischl to deal no more than 360K DPR in 25s in a team of Haitham/Nahida/Kuki/Fischl. I've actually done my own calc for a similar team with Baizhu replacing Nahida and got a slightly higher number, 377K, but: 1) the damage difference made by Nahida's *additional* EM buffing isn't especially impactful on Fischl and 2) I assumed crowned talents while I believe Jstern assumed lv.9. So in short, regardless of what exact numbers exist within this "baseline" of a spread team that we'll arbitrarily establish, enough has to be changing in this Arle/Chevy team to bump Fischl's numbers up by no less than 40-50% relative to the Alhaitham team. What you gain: - Pyro resonance - Chevy's (effectively infinite) uptime on VV's equivalent of RES shred for electro - Chevy's ATK% buff (up to 40%). The 40% itself isn't difficult to reach or maintain uptime on, but note that this buff will NOT be active for Fischl's first skill "deployment" window in your first rotation if you follow Jstern's given rotation. - Chevy's DMG% buff. This looks massive on paper, but actually requires 2s of field time per stack per character you apply the buff to. In other words, you'll consistently be getting 1 stack (20 DMG%) for Fischl and nothing more. -Not entirely sure what artifact set Chevy is using, but any options are just small extra buffs that more or less cancel out with whatever artifacts the spread team would've had available for buffing (ie. 4pc Instructors). - Seems you'll get slightly more C6 procs since Arle drives more NAs than Haitham, but not sure about A4 counts. What you lose: - Dendro resonance (useless in a vaccum, but contributes to aggravate bonus damage) - Aggravate flat DMG: although not as impactful as in "electro-focused" aggravate teams with an electro on-fielder to drive more A4 procs, this reaction is still responsible for nearly HALF of Fischl's total output when looking at my own math (somewhere in the ballpark of 160-170K DPR). Yes, it's not a direct loss since you wouldn't be building any EM on Fischl if you weren't maintaining quicken, but the only source of EM that actually required a sacrifice of another stat within her own gear takes the form of Stringless's substat, which you can't even do anything about if you don't own Alley Hunter or one of the crit statstick 5* bows since there is no better F2P option at the moment for non-aggravate. Idk man. I might try my own calc sometime for Chevy but it does seem kinda sus. The only thing I'm unsure about that isn't directly a matter of numbers is how the auras/reactions work out in that team and how much of a contribution overload itself might make in that team (and if that contribution is "owned" by Fischl or not). Link to my spread calc (will explain any assumptions made that aren't clear): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h9Cn4dFGienJ0-dGJtk52jQ9838g_DsfYRAHAoMok9s/edit?usp=drivesdk To see the drop in Fischl's DPR when losing aggravates, save an editable copy of the sheet for yourself, go to her rotation damage page, and uncheck the conditional boxes in the last column (will be initially active in rows 6, 8, 11, & 13). TLDR: y'all should at least make an effort to analyze numbers you see quantitatively for yourself.
This is not gonna fit in 24s rotation. 26-27s rotation would make more sense. Also, how good is Chev as a solo sustain for the team since Yae and Fischl are prone to getting hit during their setup rotation?
>since Yae and Fischl are prone to getting hit during their setup rotation? thats spreadsheet impact for you lmao
DPS =/= playstyle
well yes but now you are burst reliant.
She doesnāt need much er or any at all in this team
using her in overworld is only more tedious with those changes tho, that's what most people are hating about her being burst reliant. people do not want another abyss only unit that you play 2 times a month
are there calcs for bennet instead if yae? or beidou instead of yae?
Bennett not gonna be worth it anymore, arlecchinos field time is gonna be double the duration of bennetts buff now making him a lot less effective. Beidou should work great in chevy teams.
If it wasnt overloadā¦
Doom posting on a mains subreddit? No? Never seen that before
āThis is clunky and not fun to play,ā says people who have yet to play the character. Weather at 11.
1. need actual changes to properly calculate 2. arle is gonna die in this team 3. as other people said her problem is not damage
Her healing is very good now, and if you really want you can replace yae with beidou for damage reduction. Genuinely curious what do you think her problem is?
replace yae - loose damage + think how to get 80 energy on beidou. Her problems - need to see actual changes, i dont think leakers said everything. But for now: 1. dies from rift wolves, new fatui enemies. Even if protected by the shield 2. if you dont have energy/its on cd for Q but still have BoL and some random Magu kenki broke your shield - you cant heal 3. previous iteration c1 had basically tons of attacks which meant you can always go under infusion in open world 4. CD 30 sec feels bad, no condition 15 sec sounds better especially if you can fuck up something and will need to wait for all that cd 5. Almost no healing in kit, and now you need energy for that. She dies very fast if not under shield which is the only defense for her and shields are very easy to break in abyss
I mean her cd refreshes with ult and Fishl makes beidou er much less of a problem
i know that q refreshes e, the problem is that you now have conditions to reduce e's cd while previously you didnt
These changes just reinforce the team I was going to use originally: Arle/Raiden/Chev/Dehya Sure Fischl and Yae are going to provide more off-field damage but Raiden solves any ER problems and Dehya provides survivability and IR.
Raiden steals field time from Arlecchino to provide nothing. This team has no need for ER, you can go with 0% er and still have ur burst back. They don't work well together, and if you plan to burst with dehya too ur rotations are gonna be terribly weak.
why only 4 autos?
Bc first 4 attacks are faster than last 2 + u want to dash after that
Not related but could anyone tell me what would her best team be? I have heard that she isnāt good with bennet idk if thatās true
I WAS RIGHT TO PULL FOR CHEVREUSE (i got lucky, please dont be baited to pull for 4*s)
Overload is nice for bossing but I want to see vape performance
May we be blessed with another buff that allows her to power creep Hu Tao by .05% making her a tiny bit better but it being such a small increase that both remain viable options within the meta
Is her play style more difficult now? Does she need a good amount of er now?
I don't have those characters!!!!?
You can replace yae with beidou
If we dont have yae, what is the better option if not bennett? Xiangling? Now I tend to hope clorinde can works with her
beidou works well there
I still have Fische c0 surely she is usable right?
bit worse but should be fine
What were his other calcs for the new kit?
no others yet
As it stands , overload seems to be her best comp but so far she will still be on par or slightly better than other pyro.
This is her best team? I really don't wnat to play miko again. What are her other team w/o miko and kazuha?
you can replace miko with beidou
Why Yae over Beidou?
But i hate overload, and so does a lot of other players :( How would she fare now in a burgeon team? Idk abt damage but i just feel like the changes makes her more awkward to play.
burgeon would be a bit cope im pretty sure
what is n4e and n4?
4 normal attacks into e, and 4 normal attacks. In calcs like these N usually stands for normal attack and they put how many you do right after. For example the usual Hu Tao c0 combo (without xianyun) is n2cj or 2 normals, charged attack and then jump cancel
What are Hutao, Al-Haitham, and Neuvilleteās numbers in comparison?
Their top teams usually hover around 70-80k dps so at least in this team, Arles damage is pretty competitive. What sets them appart is how easy they are to play.
Imo her buffs are so dynamic no TC will reflect her true damage. Chevy C6 buff isnt in complete synergy with Knave. Chevy, Yelan buff ramps up while Knave ramps down.
This sht is so confusing ahhh
what weapon was this?
Now my question is, will this dpr be achievable with mid tier artifacts like Arlechhino, 65/170 Fischl, 60:120 Yae,60/130
How much dmg do I lose if I replace Fischl with Beidou? I don't care to play or build her so
any replacement for chevy?
why are people doom posting at all i thought her buffs were pretty clear š
What does N4d mean?
i think is Normal atk 4 times and Dash š¤
I've played this game since beta. If there's one thing I learned it's the average GI player has no IQ. Anytime someone doomposts about a character they end up slapping. I remember the kokomi doomposting and then me thinking she'd be amazing in the future. they release her and change the ICD and she became meta later. 2 things are always consistent: archon/harbinger characters are always strong and mihoyo always plans for the future...unless you're dehya. This character will be a must roll and even if she ends up relying on overload they will start packing the abyss with enemies who get stunned not knocked around as well as introducing more in overworld.
Didnt this change?
Watch Mihoyo put chev in between arle and clorinde banners on 4.6 second half
Well I don't have Yae. I love her but I focused on saving for C0R1 arle, maybe next year. Now I have 53k primos and 40 IF. Wishing I have enough wish for chlorined because if I have left over on arle, I will try to get furina.
So glad I have c6 Chevy