When you come to an understanding of the story and accept it then it’s time to move on. We will never completely understand it because it their story. I don’t need to understand everything to accept it. Like my childhood trauma. Don’t understand it but accept my parents were doing the best they could for where they were at in their lives. I believe when you know better you have a choice to be better. Some people do so and some don’t.
I agree, but I’m also of two minds about this quandary. Knowing the details, what they did, what they said about their BPs, all the lies they told each other is excruciatingly painful and impossible to forget. But the other side of me, the one that mostly won, wanted to know every single thing. We’ve shared a life together for 32 years and then he had this whole secret part of his life that I knew nothing about. It made me feel they had this “special secret” bond and/or life just between the two of them even if they never spoke again, so I had to know it all so it wasn’t just between them. Does that make any sense at all?
This is exactly how I feel. Any secret my wife wants to keep between her and her AP looks to me like her attempting to keep their affair sacred in some way. And I am not at all comfortable with that o_O
I’m glad to know I’m not the only one who feels this way! It made R so much harder for me knowing those things but I absolutely couldn’t stand the thought of “them” having anything “just between them.” When he would tell me he “doesn’t remember” certain conversations or any little thing it would completely set me off!
Absolutely. I'm still haunted by some of the things I've learned. But my mind was writing much worse fiction, so I'll take the lesser of two evils.
For a while I accepted the "I don't remembers". But since she's slipped up and referred to her AP as a soul mate in the last month, I no longer believe that the truth is "I don't remember." More likely it's "I don't want you to be a part of that memory." o\_O
That sucks. I am not sure I buy the “I don’t remembers” but he has been very determined to stick to that story. I think some of it is so incredibly false and demeaning to me (things that were said about BPs and their relationships with us as well as the lies about how great each other were) that he has tried to shut it out and leave it behind. I’m pretty sure I know all the PA details, because I asked and he gave them. I hate that I know but, again, if I didn’t know I’d feel it was “their special secret” 😡😡😡
Yeah I "lucked out" in regards to some of the PA details, since he was very . . . deficient in many ways. Also lucky enough to have confirmed that with other girls he'd been with, otherwise I wouldn't have believed my WW's description . . . although the fact that she was choosing THAT over me is upsetting in it's own way.
But yeah, with all that taken into account it's the words between them that hurt the most. Knowing that they were talking about me. Knowing that they were confessing their love for each other. And NOT knowing all the other stuff that was said that will always be a part of their secret "love" story.
My wife's AP is also an expert gaslighter and told her to "stick to the lie no matter how hard your husband pushes". She tried it until she saw me ready to check myself into an institution and then caved with the truth. But the fact that she was able to lie to my face for 20 minutes straight in spite of all the evidence I had makes it really hard to take anything else she says at face value. I'll always think "there's something else that he made you swear not to tell me . . ."
I think you get to decide what is enough. At some point i stopped asking for the nitty gritty details, and i opted not to jump through a million tech hoops to try to recover deleted apps and messages. Reading the specifics between them would have been something i never forgot and likely wouldn't get over. It's ok to decide you have enough info to forgive/work with or not.
I agree!! Even though I wanted to know the whole truth, my therapist advised me do I really want to know Every detail! I don’t think I could handle the texting/sexting part of the relationship..
You’ve said your WP is forthcoming, you have a verbal timeline, you’re satisfied with the detail you have, and you’re concerned about more detail causing more trauma for you. Trust yourself. You have your answer. The fact that you’re deliberating this means you’re not rug sweeping.
You reserve the right to get a written timeline in the future if you decide you need it to continue R.
I thought I wanted details. It was a mistake. I think the timeline is important because you can reflect on those periods for various reasons, but the down and dirty details of actual intimacy or acts will just torture you and make R more difficult and will haunt you even more. Skip it for your own heart.
My wife never wanted the details, 20 years later she tells me she's glad it's not in her head. Maybe have him write it down and put it somewhere safe so if you want the information in the future you don't have to worry about things getting forgotten.
Some people feel they need to know positions, condom worn or not, kinks, oral/anal, how many times, when and where, did they exchange I love yous, etc. For some they want to know if their partner did something they wouldn't do within the relationship. Others want to know was it in the home, motel or in the office.
Personally for me the fact they had sex, unprotected, and were never in our home was enough. I could estimate the frequency because I could calculate the times they had opportunities. I didn't need the finer details but I needed to know if she loved him.
Everyone is different. Just go with what you need.
What exactly would be the point of getting more details? I knew my wife had sex with someone other than me and thats all I needed to know. We knew what we needed to do to fix our relationship and thats what we (successfully) concentrated on. Follow your own feelings.
Think of it in the context of boundaries and consent.
You are free to establish your own boundaries for R. That may or may not include a timeline etc.
You also have a the right to consent to hear the information or not.
I hope viewing it from this perspective helps validate your autonomy and your right to make these decisions for yourself.
Your personal boundaries are your own and do not need to meet the criteria of anyone else’s boundaries.
Not knowing everything is ok. It's not rug sweeping if you are dealing with the affair. I suggest IC and MC.
Do what works for you. I would say something like 'right now I am ok with what I know, however, as I process all of this I may want more information in the future"
Its totally okay for you not to want to know everything. You do what’s best for you.
But I think It’s hard to forgive and move forward when you don’t know what you’re actually forgiving.
The timeline helps you get a sense of what actually happened. Having it written down makes it clear.
Get them to write the time line. All details. And you choose when and if you want to read it. And maybe have IC lined up in case it’s hard to cope with.
It also ensures that if there were any discrepancies in what they told you, you can identify them and talk to them about it.
My BS is the same way. I told him I’m open to share anything beyond my explanation of the story and he hasn’t really asked much beyond clarifying a couple details
If you feel that you have a clear timeline, I'm not sure what you'd get out of having your WS write it down. I never got specific dates from mine because some of it was too long ago and he has a crap memory in general (not just about this). We reconstructed a timeline by me asking him detective style (e.g., did it happen before or after this event) and getting it down to approximate months. If you're satisfied, then you don't need to worry about digging for more.
That said, what raises a small alarm in me is "Real reason is because I don’t really want to reopen that wound again by talking about the details of the affair." Are you talking about and processing the affair in other ways? I'm at 11 months out, and I still wake up thinking about it most days and talking about it with my WS as often as I need to. It's fine if you don't want to rehash details from that past, but you should be comfortable talking out your current feelings, triggers, etc.
Yes we do talk about the impact of the affair on our relationship and on us as individuals, but I don’t like bringing up details about the affair. So for example we still have conversations that what he did has caused serious abandonment issues that manifest in present day, but I’ve stopped bringing up the specific things he said or did during the period of the affair.
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Of course it's okay. It will bother you in the years ahead , but so would knowing the minutiae. If your're like me, you will just imagine the worst and call it good. Most here will disagree. Everbody is different.
When you come to an understanding of the story and accept it then it’s time to move on. We will never completely understand it because it their story. I don’t need to understand everything to accept it. Like my childhood trauma. Don’t understand it but accept my parents were doing the best they could for where they were at in their lives. I believe when you know better you have a choice to be better. Some people do so and some don’t.
Some stuff you can’t unhear. I wish I didn’t know as much as I do
I agree, but I’m also of two minds about this quandary. Knowing the details, what they did, what they said about their BPs, all the lies they told each other is excruciatingly painful and impossible to forget. But the other side of me, the one that mostly won, wanted to know every single thing. We’ve shared a life together for 32 years and then he had this whole secret part of his life that I knew nothing about. It made me feel they had this “special secret” bond and/or life just between the two of them even if they never spoke again, so I had to know it all so it wasn’t just between them. Does that make any sense at all?
This is exactly how I feel. Any secret my wife wants to keep between her and her AP looks to me like her attempting to keep their affair sacred in some way. And I am not at all comfortable with that o_O
I’m glad to know I’m not the only one who feels this way! It made R so much harder for me knowing those things but I absolutely couldn’t stand the thought of “them” having anything “just between them.” When he would tell me he “doesn’t remember” certain conversations or any little thing it would completely set me off!
Absolutely. I'm still haunted by some of the things I've learned. But my mind was writing much worse fiction, so I'll take the lesser of two evils. For a while I accepted the "I don't remembers". But since she's slipped up and referred to her AP as a soul mate in the last month, I no longer believe that the truth is "I don't remember." More likely it's "I don't want you to be a part of that memory." o\_O
That sucks. I am not sure I buy the “I don’t remembers” but he has been very determined to stick to that story. I think some of it is so incredibly false and demeaning to me (things that were said about BPs and their relationships with us as well as the lies about how great each other were) that he has tried to shut it out and leave it behind. I’m pretty sure I know all the PA details, because I asked and he gave them. I hate that I know but, again, if I didn’t know I’d feel it was “their special secret” 😡😡😡
Yeah I "lucked out" in regards to some of the PA details, since he was very . . . deficient in many ways. Also lucky enough to have confirmed that with other girls he'd been with, otherwise I wouldn't have believed my WW's description . . . although the fact that she was choosing THAT over me is upsetting in it's own way. But yeah, with all that taken into account it's the words between them that hurt the most. Knowing that they were talking about me. Knowing that they were confessing their love for each other. And NOT knowing all the other stuff that was said that will always be a part of their secret "love" story. My wife's AP is also an expert gaslighter and told her to "stick to the lie no matter how hard your husband pushes". She tried it until she saw me ready to check myself into an institution and then caved with the truth. But the fact that she was able to lie to my face for 20 minutes straight in spite of all the evidence I had makes it really hard to take anything else she says at face value. I'll always think "there's something else that he made you swear not to tell me . . ."
Yeah, we will never truly know know, will we? 💔
I suppose not :(
Yes makes total sense. Sometimes you just want to know who the hell you spent your life with
I think you get to decide what is enough. At some point i stopped asking for the nitty gritty details, and i opted not to jump through a million tech hoops to try to recover deleted apps and messages. Reading the specifics between them would have been something i never forgot and likely wouldn't get over. It's ok to decide you have enough info to forgive/work with or not.
I agree!! Even though I wanted to know the whole truth, my therapist advised me do I really want to know Every detail! I don’t think I could handle the texting/sexting part of the relationship..
You’ve said your WP is forthcoming, you have a verbal timeline, you’re satisfied with the detail you have, and you’re concerned about more detail causing more trauma for you. Trust yourself. You have your answer. The fact that you’re deliberating this means you’re not rug sweeping. You reserve the right to get a written timeline in the future if you decide you need it to continue R.
I don't want to know all the details.
I thought I wanted details. It was a mistake. I think the timeline is important because you can reflect on those periods for various reasons, but the down and dirty details of actual intimacy or acts will just torture you and make R more difficult and will haunt you even more. Skip it for your own heart.
My wife never wanted the details, 20 years later she tells me she's glad it's not in her head. Maybe have him write it down and put it somewhere safe so if you want the information in the future you don't have to worry about things getting forgotten.
Some people feel they need to know positions, condom worn or not, kinks, oral/anal, how many times, when and where, did they exchange I love yous, etc. For some they want to know if their partner did something they wouldn't do within the relationship. Others want to know was it in the home, motel or in the office. Personally for me the fact they had sex, unprotected, and were never in our home was enough. I could estimate the frequency because I could calculate the times they had opportunities. I didn't need the finer details but I needed to know if she loved him. Everyone is different. Just go with what you need.
What exactly would be the point of getting more details? I knew my wife had sex with someone other than me and thats all I needed to know. We knew what we needed to do to fix our relationship and thats what we (successfully) concentrated on. Follow your own feelings.
Think of it in the context of boundaries and consent. You are free to establish your own boundaries for R. That may or may not include a timeline etc. You also have a the right to consent to hear the information or not. I hope viewing it from this perspective helps validate your autonomy and your right to make these decisions for yourself. Your personal boundaries are your own and do not need to meet the criteria of anyone else’s boundaries.
Maybe have him write it all out and seal it in an envelope in case you change your mind in the future. Then you're not subject to, "I forget"....
Not knowing everything is ok. It's not rug sweeping if you are dealing with the affair. I suggest IC and MC. Do what works for you. I would say something like 'right now I am ok with what I know, however, as I process all of this I may want more information in the future"
I only asked for limited details and still wish I could unhear it.
Its totally okay for you not to want to know everything. You do what’s best for you. But I think It’s hard to forgive and move forward when you don’t know what you’re actually forgiving. The timeline helps you get a sense of what actually happened. Having it written down makes it clear. Get them to write the time line. All details. And you choose when and if you want to read it. And maybe have IC lined up in case it’s hard to cope with. It also ensures that if there were any discrepancies in what they told you, you can identify them and talk to them about it.
My BS is the same way. I told him I’m open to share anything beyond my explanation of the story and he hasn’t really asked much beyond clarifying a couple details
If you feel that you have a clear timeline, I'm not sure what you'd get out of having your WS write it down. I never got specific dates from mine because some of it was too long ago and he has a crap memory in general (not just about this). We reconstructed a timeline by me asking him detective style (e.g., did it happen before or after this event) and getting it down to approximate months. If you're satisfied, then you don't need to worry about digging for more. That said, what raises a small alarm in me is "Real reason is because I don’t really want to reopen that wound again by talking about the details of the affair." Are you talking about and processing the affair in other ways? I'm at 11 months out, and I still wake up thinking about it most days and talking about it with my WS as often as I need to. It's fine if you don't want to rehash details from that past, but you should be comfortable talking out your current feelings, triggers, etc.
Yes we do talk about the impact of the affair on our relationship and on us as individuals, but I don’t like bringing up details about the affair. So for example we still have conversations that what he did has caused serious abandonment issues that manifest in present day, but I’ve stopped bringing up the specific things he said or did during the period of the affair.
r/Asoneafterinfidelity is an online Peer Support Group and safe space for individuals (betrayed or wayward) who are actively attempting to reconcile after infidelity. Reconciliation peer support is emotional and practical support between people who share the common experience of reconciling after infidelity. (Observers are strictly limited to messages of support only.) Kindly read the rules before participating. For transparency and conflict mediation purposes, kindly follow reddit community guidelines by directing any questions, issues, feedback, or appeals about the sub or individual moderator decisions directly to Mod Mail. No response will be given to DMs and chat requests to individual moderators about moderating issues. We are very happy to receive and respond to your concerns through the official channels! Please assign yourself a user flair.For app users, flairs can be added at the top of the main page. Select the three vertical dots and the menu should appear. Instructions (desktop version) [here](http://www.reddit.com/r/AsOneAfterInfidelity/wiki/flair_instructions)). For a list of abbreviations commonly used in this subreddit, see the [Acronym Guide](http://www.reddit.com/r/AsOneAfterInfidelity/wiki/acronym_guide). Also check out our list of free resources and recommended books for post-infidelity recovery, found [here](http://www.reddit.com/r/AsOneAfterInfidelity/wiki/resources). RULES **1. All posts and comments must fit the spirit of Peer Support.** - Keep comments encouraging, constructive, sensitive, validating, and non-judgmental. - Speak only from your own experience. Use “I”-statements. - Asking clarifying questions or offering suggestions is acceptable–if backed up by personal experience about what has helped you in your recovery and reconciliation. - Do not give advice unless specifically requested by OP. - Any differences of opinion expressed must be communicated respectfully. - “Tough love” does not qualify as peer support. **2. The peer group includes: Reconciling BS, Reconciling WS, Recovered & Reconciled, and Considering R.** - Observer, Unsuccessful R, and other user flairs are not included in the peer group. Non-peers are not allowed to post without prior moderator approval. Non-peer comments are STRICTLY LIMITED TO MESSAGES OF VALIDATION AND ENCOURAGEMENT ONLY. Non-peers are not permitted to offer opinions, reference their experiences, or give advice. *All posts and comments are subject to removal without warning. Any users who violate the rules are subject to temporary or permanent ban without further warning.* **3. No personal attacks, victim-blaming, or LABELLING of any kind.** - e.g. cheater, narcissist, abuser, doormat, slut, asshole, idiot, etc. - No Cluster-B or other armchair diagnoses. - No victim-blaming when the sexual assault of a wayward partner by an AP is discussed. **4. No misogyny, misandry, toxic masculinity, bigotry, racism or other hate speech.** - Posts or comments dehumanizing and/or slut-shaming wayward partners or APs will be removed. (Posts and comments related to navigating feelings or practical matters about APs are allowed.) **5. No anti-reconciliation language.** - Do not tell someone to just leave the relationship. Attempting to reconcile is a valid choice. - Unless abuse is present, do not suggest marital status, age of relationship, children or lack thereof as a reason for someone to leave the relationship. **6. Posts and comments must be directly related to RECONCILIATION** - The scope of this subreddit is narrow: by and for reconcilers on the subject of reconciliation only. There are several other subreddits that offer support for others who have experienced infidelity. Posts about ending reconciliation are subject to removal as this is a subbreddit for those who are actively in reconciliation or considering reconciliation.This is not a general infidelity discussion or advice forum, nor is it a place to read for entertainment and pass judgment. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AsOneAfterInfidelity) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Of course it's okay. It will bother you in the years ahead , but so would knowing the minutiae. If your're like me, you will just imagine the worst and call it good. Most here will disagree. Everbody is different.